| 00:10.47 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (~frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 00:26.20 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (~Ian@webout4.futureelectronics.com) |
| 01:08.04 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (~Toybox@cpe-76-167-239-8.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 01:31.44 | kierra | Delusional ping :) |
| 01:31.51 | kierra | its me again, margaret |
| 01:33.22 | *** join/#bzflag Linuxdude2 (ad5889d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.88.137.209) |
| 01:33.41 | JeffM | everybody wang chung tonight! |
| 01:34.44 | Linuxdude2 | Anybody use TeamSpeak 3?? |
| 01:34.49 | mdskpr_ | yes |
| 01:35.00 | Linuxdude2 | Is it any good?? |
| 01:35.04 | brad | mumble > teamspeak |
| 01:35.20 | JeffM | muble > ventrillo > teamspeak |
| 01:35.22 | Linuxdude2 | Why is mumble better?? |
| 01:35.27 | kierra | ts is ok |
| 01:35.32 | kierra | i prefer mumble |
| 01:35.38 | Linuxdude2 | Why?? |
| 01:35.49 | JeffM | better codecs/bandwith usage |
| 01:35.52 | JeffM | client is nicer |
| 01:35.55 | Linuxdude2 | Ok |
| 01:36.02 | Linuxdude2 | I'll go with Mumble |
| 01:36.08 | JeffM | half my friends are on vent, half on mumble |
| 01:36.09 | kierra | with mumble, you see the players logged in on the upper rt corner of bz screen |
| 01:36.15 | Linuxdude2 | Does mumble work under Linux?? |
| 01:36.20 | kierra | and the nick lights up who is speaking |
| 01:36.24 | brad | yes Linuxdude2 |
| 01:36.26 | kierra | idk, google it |
| 01:36.27 | JeffM | if you turn on that god aweful feature kierra |
| 01:36.29 | brad | should be in most repos |
| 01:36.38 | kierra | i like it, Jeff |
| 01:36.49 | kierra | till i memorize voices.... |
| 01:36.58 | JeffM | kierra, I like my second display that shows me the list, instead of having an overlay jack up a game |
| 01:37.22 | kierra | doesnt seem to mess up the game for me |
| 01:37.24 | brad | :-o |
| 01:37.28 | JeffM | oh bzflag is fine |
| 01:37.35 | JeffM | it's not nice with some other games |
| 01:37.45 | kierra | i only use it on bz |
| 01:37.51 | JeffM | I gathered :) |
| 01:37.55 | kierra | :) |
| 01:38.01 | kierra | skype for tf2 |
| 01:38.04 | kierra | :) |
| 01:38.13 | JeffM | a lot of people use skype |
| 01:38.19 | JeffM | it's just simple to setup |
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| 01:40.53 | JeffM | installs everquest and parties like it's 1999 |
| 01:50.17 | Sgeo | Is there really organized play in BZFlag? |
| 01:50.20 | Sgeo | I haven't seen it |
| 01:50.29 | JeffM | the leagues |
| 01:50.42 | JeffM | that's as cloose as it's going to get |
| 02:00.27 | khonkhortisan | it might help to have the Alt-f and Ctrl-f buttons already defined |
| 02:10.06 | JeffM | what do they do? |
| 02:11.22 | khonkhortisan | quick chat, you press the button and it says a predefined message |
| 02:11.43 | JeffM | what would you define them to say? |
| 02:13.24 | khonkhortisan | attack, defend, nice shot, save the flag, just generic team messages for say alt and generic send-to-all for say ctrl |
| 02:14.13 | JeffM | if the default messages are reasonable it sounds ok |
| 02:16.09 | khonkhortisan | I think Alt-F1 is actually assigned by default to say "Alt-F1" |
| 02:18.59 | JeffM | that sounds super useless |
| 02:21.12 | khonkhortisan | there *might* be more teamplay if there were already team messages |
| 02:21.24 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:22.08 | JeffM | I still think zaping the flag to the base if it's touched by the team would cause people to think about playing in roles |
| 02:22.53 | JeffM | and make it so you can't score if your flag is not at base |
| 02:24.19 | khonkhortisan | I think you at least shouldn't be able to capture a flag if your own flag is out. Both flags could be captured at almost the same time. |
| 02:25.29 | JeffM | with that more people would play defense |
| 02:26.01 | blast007 | we should map Alt+F4 to "goodbye" on Windows installs :P |
| 02:26.04 | khonkhortisan | So is what you're saying that someone shouldn't run a flag by themselves because the next person that comes along can just return it? That it takes multiple people to bring a flag out from a base? |
| 02:26.36 | JeffM | no I don't think that you should be able to hide your flag, some of your teamates should have to defend againsta attackers |
| 02:26.47 | JeffM | if you can solo run it.. GREAT then you are good |
| 02:26.56 | JeffM | but some of your team shoudl be defending the base |
| 02:27.00 | JeffM | that's why it's... a base |
| 02:27.40 | JeffM | right now it's not a base, it's a scoring platform |
| 02:27.55 | JeffM | you can go hide your flag and then everyone goes and tries to get the other one |
| 02:28.24 | JeffM | there is some defense but you have to know where someone hid the flag and the like |
| 02:28.35 | JeffM | all possible just harder for a new person to get into |
| 02:31.54 | khonkhortisan | once they get past memorizing flags and dodging |
| 02:32.32 | khonkhortisan | cracked my knuckles and the dogs barked at the door |
| 02:32.34 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:32.57 | JeffM | it ain't like other games in that respect so it's not easy to pick up off the bad |
| 02:33.19 | JeffM | and they join the server they will die the quickest on :) |
| 02:35.10 | khonkhortisan | I try to avoid that one most of the time |
| 02:36.13 | JeffM | a new player would not know to do that :) |
| 02:40.28 | blast007 | the flag drawing code (on the radar) is a bit fun too... sometimes a team will bring someone else's flag back to their base and drop that flag on top of their flag, and their team's flag will "disappear" from the radar ;) |
| 02:40.59 | blast007 | think it draws them in a specific order. so on a two team map, it works for one team, but not for the other |
| 02:41.05 | JeffM | I'd only show your flag if it's off base |
| 02:41.06 | khonkhortisan | I didn't know that |
| 02:41.24 | khonkhortisan | but it makes complete sense |
| 02:41.44 | blast007 | just have to sit still and grab/drop both flags, and they'll drop in the same exact spot |
| 02:44.29 | blast007 | but even when that happens, the other team is like "where's the blue flag??" instead of worrying about the fact that THEIR flag is sitting in the other team's area.... |
| 02:47.44 | khonkhortisan | it's not immediately obvious that saving your flag is scorewise the same as capturing theirs |
| 02:48.26 | blast007 | yeah, math isn't the strong subject of kids these days. texting is. ;) |
| 02:48.43 | khonkhortisan | then I don't have a strong subject |
| 02:49.19 | khonkhortisan | texting uses too many abbr. for me |
| 02:49.31 | blast007 | i no wut u mean |
| 02:50.51 | Delusional | wayback.... I was asking for BIG GIANT team flag markers that CAN"T BE IGNORED. I got better markers, but they are still smaller than I'd like |
| 02:57.01 | khonkhortisan | it does help that you can only see your own flag marker around the mouse box |
| 03:03.27 | JeffM | I recall being told my hud markers were far too large |
| 03:33.20 | khonkhortisan | is the bzflag wiki connected to wikipedia, sourceforge, forum, or is it a separate login? |
| 03:33.29 | JeffM | seperate |
| 03:35.42 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8251 10/Current_Maintainer: /* Project Administrators */ corrected pluality |
| 03:36.00 | khonkhortisan | cool it shows here too |
| 03:36.12 | JeffM | yeah it's treated like a commit |
| 03:36.18 | khonkhortisan | oops *plurality |
| 03:40.10 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r0 10/User:Khonkhortisan: |
| 03:40.28 | khonkhortisan | what was that? |
| 03:41.28 | khonkhortisan | oh must be my personal page |
| 03:41.30 | JeffM | you |
| 03:41.31 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:50.55 | CIA-104 | BZFlag: 03Khonkhortisan 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8252 10/Enhanced_Server_Listing: /* Mock-ups */ duplicate link |
| 04:57.25 | khonkhortisan | when did the message box get a scrollbar? |
| 05:20.51 | Flash | it's had one for as long as I know |
| 05:20.59 | Flash | but you only see it when you scroll up |
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| 05:38.42 | khonkhortisan | I must have graduated from my inability to notice |
| 05:52.24 | BulletCatcher | Flash: How can I help test? |
| 05:52.40 | Flash | go to ##planetmofo |
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| 07:52.12 | ts3d | Oh, reading the ibot logs (ft linuxdude2) had me in stitches. Nice job. |
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| 17:08.42 | blast007 | bleh, after I get the main site done, I should do something about the list server code |
| 17:17.17 | JeffM | or maybe a debian package? |
| 17:22.53 | blast007 | well, maybe that, yeah :) |
| 18:19.50 | JeffM | Quol, is there a way to read the server owners and display them on the new stats site? |
| 18:21.24 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/db/?action=LIST&list_format=lua |
| 18:21.48 | blast007 | there's a JSON format as well, but I'd avoid that one until I redo it |
| 18:28.06 | blast007 | avoid it even more now that I disabled it ;) |
| 18:28.17 | blast007 | but the lua one, you could use that |
| 18:44.08 | Quol | JeffM: if there is a corresponding DB entry for it, yes (and I spoke with Strayer, I will post it on github and he wants to jump in and help too) |
| 18:44.37 | Quol | and sorry - been real busy with issues these last weeks at work - 100+ hours overtime in 3 weeks - haven't had much time to work on things |
| 18:48.52 | Quol | just looking: in the collector, we are not gathering that info - so I think we have 2 choices: 1) gather the info somehow, store it in the DB, 2) get the data fronm an external source and link it somehow (servername:port I guess) |
| 18:50.17 | Quol | if there was a place to gather it - we could add a column to the srver_names table...does that data exist anywhere? the list server? |
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| 18:58.54 | Quol | blast007: there is really nothing that says that the server owner is X - other than guessing somehow (mine is easy - it has quol in the name, but if remove my name from the name and the description - there is no way if linking that server with me) |
| 18:59.15 | Quol | from the link you posted that is |
| 18:59.50 | Quol | which, I already have more or less in the server_names table (it's pretty much the same -> hostname, port, description...) |
| 19:01.24 | Quol | maybe at the list server level require an "owner" field? or can we link to owner info based on the new list server keys? |
| 19:07.11 | Quol | I feel lonely :) |
| 19:18.38 | JeffM | Quol, there is not, it's on the list server |
| 19:18.45 | JeffM | in some jton thingy |
| 19:19.22 | Quol | well - if there is a way with a json call to get taht data - then we could |
| 19:19.36 | JeffM | yeah its in the list, there are several formats as blast007 said |
| 19:19.59 | JeffM | I guess the poller could be updated to read the lua format |
| 19:20.08 | JeffM | anyone want to do that? get some C# experience :) |
| 19:20.16 | Quol | like send some webservice the listserver id for that server, and response would be owner details in json - than ya, that would be fairly easy/straight forward |
| 19:20.44 | Quol | but blast's link above didn't have owner details - just server hostname, port, description |
| 19:20.53 | JeffM | mdskpr_, I know you've been lookin for tasks, wana update the poller? |
| 19:20.54 | Quol | is what you are talking about different? |
| 19:21.05 | JeffM | no we can use that when we poll |
| 19:22.43 | Quol | but we mostly have that in the DB already (server_name, port, details/description, gametype, flags, teams) - just not the owner details (like linking 07.bztank.net to the owner name) |
| 19:22.51 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:23.11 | JeffM | so if we got the owner at the same time we add that other stuff we could just throw the owner in the table |
| 19:23.20 | JeffM | we get it from the list server anyway |
| 19:23.22 | Quol | ya |
| 19:23.25 | JeffM | just not the lua version |
| 19:24.04 | Quol | we could either do it at the collector level - or later on, at the display level (web-site would itself initiate the web-service call to gain owner info and cahce it) - either way |
| 19:24.15 | Quol | probably at the collector level makes sense though |
| 19:25.05 | JeffM | yeah I don't think there is a way to get info on a single server when you hit the list server |
| 19:25.13 | JeffM | so it'd have to parse the entire thing |
| 19:26.00 | Quol | is the owner details in there at all? is there a way that tracks my listserver key to me for instance? |
| 19:26.00 | Quol | I guess there is |
| 19:26.00 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:26.05 | JeffM | the key is tied to IP or domain |
| 19:26.09 | JeffM | so it can map it |
| 19:26.25 | Quol | ya - figured there would be somthing we could map with the listkey |
| 19:26.27 | JeffM | and you have to send your key |
| 19:26.29 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:26.36 | JeffM | that's what it's there for, so we know the owner |
| 19:26.40 | JeffM | thats the only reason we did it |
| 19:26.55 | Quol | ya - if the collector can grab it, then we can shove it in the DB - done |
| 19:28.39 | Quol | in the server_names table - just add an owner column.. or we could have an "owners" table with the owner details (id, name, e-mail, etc..) and have a foreign key in server_names with owner_id |
| 19:29.14 | JeffM | naw another col is fine |
| 19:29.21 | JeffM | I just need to find someone to update the collector |
| 19:29.36 | Quol | well - I can work on that if I know how to get the data...if you want |
| 19:30.11 | Quol | hmm - although - my schedule is a bit rough - it is freeing up a bit this week |
| 19:30.21 | Quol | knock's on wood |
| 19:30.25 | JeffM | I'll see if someone else wants to do it |
| 19:30.30 | JeffM | you've done so much on the site |
| 19:30.30 | Quol | kk |
| 19:33.42 | Quol | on that note, how you want me to open this up? is it OK if I go ahead and github it? or would you prefer svn somewhere? |
| 19:33.58 | JeffM | the site? |
| 19:34.01 | Quol | also - if there is something you want to cleanup/add - let me know |
| 19:34.01 | Quol | ya |
| 19:34.07 | JeffM | we do all our code on svn |
| 19:34.14 | JeffM | we have a web section |
| 19:34.35 | JeffM | I don't think there would be any reason for us to use more then one VCS |
| 19:35.05 | JeffM | and not git, we arn't realy "patch accepters" in our development process |
| 19:35.15 | Quol | sure - that's fine. locally I used git, but I can export to svn and upload it somewhere - so see if you can guess the next question :) |
| 19:35.29 | JeffM | sourceforge |
| 19:35.32 | JeffM | where our stuff is |
| 19:35.41 | JeffM | if you need access let me know and I'll add you to the project |
| 19:36.26 | JeffM | I assume blast007 and BulletCatcher have no issue with you getting commit access to maintain that site |
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| 19:36.43 | Quol | sure - if that's fine with you guys, that's what I will do |
| 19:36.58 | Quol | just uninstalled torroisesvn too |
| 19:37.04 | JeffM | do you have a sourceforge account? |
| 19:39.55 | Quol | ya: nairraf |
| 19:40.15 | Quol | actually- the public display name is Ian Farr |
| 19:40.31 | JeffM | it's the username we use |
| 19:40.39 | Quol | nairraf |
| 19:40.39 | JeffM | welcome to the project, don't break anything :) |
| 19:40.46 | Quol | ty :) |
| 19:41.24 | JeffM | you use your SF username/password in svn |
| 19:41.29 | JeffM | and that will let you commit |
| 19:41.34 | Quol | kk |
| 19:42.31 | Quol | also - on the web end I didn't use a framework (wrote all the backend myself - and it's framework-ish)...I figured you guys would prefer that over some licensed framework - hope that was OK |
| 19:42.49 | Quol | cleaner IP that way I figured |
| 19:43.06 | JeffM | blast007 has more concerns about that then I do |
| 19:43.14 | JeffM | tho if it's open source I don't think anyone cares |
| 19:43.23 | JeffM | we have a bunch of other libs in the product |
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| 19:44.53 | Quol | man this new Nokia firewall...keeps rejecting random packets which then foobar's my IRC connections |
| 19:45.00 | Quol | seems to only effect my IRC connections though - weird |
| 20:01.16 | Quol | do you want me to start a new folder under bzflag/trunk/web? |
| 20:03.10 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:04.24 | Quol | OK - will place it in trunk/web/bzstats (or would you prefer gamestats? as that is what your site image says) |
| 20:09.44 | JeffM | do gamestats |
| 20:10.03 | JeffM | an blast007 can rename it if he wants |
| 20:22.53 | Quol | ok |
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| 21:23.06 | blast007 | Quol: sorry, should be this: http://my.bzflag.org/db/?action=LIST&listformat=lua |
| 21:23.21 | blast007 | the bzfls UI showed it with a _ |
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| 21:41.12 | Tupone | BulletCatcher: are you still working on automake ? May I fix build out of source tree ? |
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