IRC log for #bzflag on 20120218

`00:01.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol_Home (~ian@modemcable089.251-57-74.mc.videotron.ca)`
`00:20.30`	`CIA-104`	`BZFlag: 03bryjen * r22377 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/WorldWeapons.cxx: Pass shot team/color up the chain`
`00:20.46`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@75.81.252.118)`
`00:20.46`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ`
`01:34.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Delusional (~delusiona@pool-96-236-228-70.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net)`
`01:54.20`	`*** join/#bzflag QBeep (~QB@d3-4-1-0.r00.dllstx04.us.ce.gin.ntt.net)`
`01:59.12`	`*** join/#bzflag allejo (~allejo@cpe-76-90-186-178.socal.res.rr.com)`
`02:03.29`	`*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535)`
`02:09.02`	`*** join/#bzflag ahs3- (~ahs3-@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net)`
`02:13.43`	`Delusional`	`QuantumBeep: Long time no see`
`02:53.19`	`*** join/#bzflag cpast (ad4ff808@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.79.248.8)`
`02:53.32`	`cpast`	`in a plugin`
`02:53.47`	`cpast`	`is there a way to force something to occur at most every x amount of time?`
`02:56.38`	`blast007`	`cpast: there's a MaxWaitTime setting you can define`
`02:57.23`	`cpast`	`how?`
`02:57.24`	`blast007`	`that assumes that the wait time you set isn't low enough that a bzfs loop cannot finish in that amount of time`
`02:58.06`	`blast007`	`just set MaxWaitTime in the init method`
`02:58.23`	`cpast`	`like`
`02:58.29`	`cpast`	`MaxWaitTime=120?`
`02:58.36`	`blast007`	`uh, no`
`02:58.40`	`blast007`	`that would be two minutes`
`02:58.49`	`cpast`	`that's all i need`
`02:58.59`	`blast007`	`right, but bzfs never waits that long`
`02:59.03`	`cpast`	`oh`
`02:59.04`	`cpast`	`ok`
`02:59.23`	`blast007`	`what are you actually trying to do? you want to do something every two minutes?`
`02:59.48`	`cpast`	`a chat bot that says if anyone is online`
`03:00.03`	`cpast`	`im running a server for some friends, so it is somewhat infrequent for people to be on\`
`03:00.17`	`blast007`	`just do a tick even and track time in your plugin`
`03:00.20`	`blast007`	`event*`
`03:00.29`	`cpast`	`ok`
`03:00.38`	`cpast`	`i think i have an issue with the bot itself`
`03:00.45`	`cpast`	`but now i know thats where the problem is`
`03:00.48`	`cpast`	`thanks for the help`
`03:17.42`	`cpast`	`one more question`
`03:17.58`	`cpast`	`is it okay if i fork() and run code on the fork?`
`03:18.05`	`cpast`	`or will that cause issues?`
`03:20.55`	`*** join/#bzflag ts3d (~anonymous@76.209.130.62)`
`03:23.55`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM (~Toybox@unaffiliated/jeffm2501)`
`03:23.55`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM] by ChanServ`
`03:26.31`	`blast007`	`cpast: I have no idea`
`03:26.38`	`blast007`	`why do you need to do that?`
`03:35.39`	`cpast`	`basically`
`03:35.51`	`cpast`	`people will be able to send requests to the bot`
`03:35.55`	`cpast`	`which will ask bzfs`
`03:36.05`	`cpast`	`so i need a fork to recieve them (i think)`
`03:36.10`	`cpast`	`unless im wrong`
`03:36.35`	`JeffM`	`you are trying to get packets on another port while bzfs is running?`
`03:37.48`	`cpast`	`im using pipes`
`03:37.54`	`JeffM`	`fun`
`03:38.00`	`JeffM`	`not tubes`
`03:38.21`	`cpast`	`the bot is a python script that runs on the machine`
`03:38.54`	`cpast`	`im launching it with one fork (so it autolaunches), and then processing messages from it in another fork`
`03:39.02`	`cpast`	`but im not sure if thats a good way`
`03:39.15`	`JeffM`	`have the bot put requests in a file`
`03:39.18`	`JeffM`	`have bzfs read them`
`03:39.24`	`JeffM`	`then put the responces in another file`
`03:39.29`	`JeffM`	`then you use the file as a mutex`
`03:39.44`	`JeffM`	`proably a way to do it with shared memory too`
`03:39.53`	`JeffM`	`or named pipes`
`03:40.02`	`blast007`	`or an HTTP plugin ;)`
`03:40.07`	`cpast`	`i originally used named pipes`
`03:40.11`	`JeffM`	`yeah you could do it with HTTP too`
`03:40.18`	`JeffM`	`it's built to be asyc`
`03:40.19`	`cpast`	`but switched to using standard in and out on the python`
`03:40.23`	`cpast`	`hm`
`03:40.49`	`JeffM`	`then you'd just be calling wget from your script`
`03:40.51`	`JeffM`	`or something`
`03:41.26`	`cpast`	`if i used a file, how would i tell something has been written there?`
`03:41.38`	`JeffM`	`file system watchers`
`03:41.59`	`cpast`	`would that be the best way?`
`03:42.02`	`cpast`	`files?`
`03:42.03`	`JeffM`	`no`
`03:42.06`	`JeffM`	`it's simple`
`03:42.18`	`JeffM`	`http would be way more robust and scaleable`
`03:42.30`	`JeffM`	`then the script dosn't evne have to run on the same machine as bzfs`
`03:43.19`	`JeffM`	`the bot is IRC?`
`03:43.26`	`JeffM`	`or some other system?`
`03:43.38`	`cpast`	`xmpp`
`03:43.43`	`JeffM`	`ahh`
`03:43.43`	`cpast`	`it uses presence, mostly`
`03:43.59`	`JeffM`	`what is the query that it will make to bzfs?`
`03:44.02`	`JeffM`	`sending chat?`
`03:44.09`	`cpast`	`like`
`03:44.10`	`JeffM`	`or just like player counts?`
`03:44.21`	`cpast`	`player lists`
`03:44.30`	`JeffM`	`yeah then HTTP`
`03:44.33`	`JeffM`	`simplest way`
`03:44.57`	`JeffM`	`or even direct socket if you want`
`03:45.11`	`JeffM`	`bzfs can accept a socket connection from anything`
`03:45.20`	`cpast`	`pipes aren't good?`
`03:45.29`	`JeffM`	`I don't know how they work`
`03:45.33`	`JeffM`	`they are sorta like sockets`
`03:45.59`	`JeffM`	`but we already have an asyc system for sockets`
`03:46.19`	`JeffM`	`for pipes you are going to have to fire off a thread in your plugin to service the requests`
`03:46.31`	`ts3d`	`http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man2/pipe.2.html`
`03:46.33`	`ts3d`	`presto`
`03:46.39`	`ts3d`	`with an exaple too`
`03:46.45`	`ts3d`	`example*`
`03:46.54`	`JeffM`	`yeah they work like sockets`
`03:47.05`	`JeffM`	`but with pipes looks like you have to be on the same machine`
`03:47.26`	`cpast`	`it will be`
`03:47.28`	`JeffM`	`what if you get multiple pipe connections?`
`03:47.30`	`cpast`	`this isn't a public server`
`03:47.37`	`JeffM`	`you fork for each of those?`
`03:47.41`	`cpast`	`no`
`03:47.45`	`JeffM`	`I mean I'm sure you can make it work with pipes`
`03:47.47`	`cpast`	`i only launch one bot`
`03:47.50`	`JeffM`	`you'll have to do the work`
`03:48.02`	`JeffM`	`we've already done the work for sockets and HTTP`
`03:48.07`	`JeffM`	`and python supports both of those`
`03:48.23`	`cpast`	`but if i interface with sockets, i can use the event system already built in?`
`03:48.30`	`JeffM`	`exactly`
`03:48.36`	`JeffM`	`we have events for new out of band connection`
`03:48.43`	`JeffM`	`and functions to send/receive data from it`
`03:48.48`	`cpast`	`cool`
`03:48.49`	`JeffM`	`it's what HTTP uses`
`03:48.52`	`cpast`	`ok`
`03:49.13`	`JeffM`	`the HTTP system is even easier, you register a URL handler, give it a name, and then fill out a request with a responce`
`03:49.18`	`JeffM`	`the system takes care of the rest`
`03:49.47`	`JeffM`	`it'll send the packets out with all the other game traffic`
`03:50.51`	`JeffM`	`you don't need to be public for HTTP ether`
`03:50.56`	`cpast`	`im not sure how http works`
`03:51.03`	`cpast`	`do u know of tutorials?`
`03:51.13`	`JeffM`	`HTTP in bz or HTTP in python?`
`03:51.24`	`JeffM`	`or in general?`
`03:51.29`	`cpast`	`in general`
`03:51.32`	`cpast`	`ive never used it`
`03:51.40`	`JeffM`	`you have never used a web browser?`
`03:51.58`	`cpast`	`ive never coded with it`
`03:52.11`	`JeffM`	`there is a lib in python for it`
`03:52.15`	`JeffM`	`httplib`
`03:52.19`	`JeffM`	`you give it a URL`
`03:52.59`	`daleharvey`	`A good way to learn is to install firebug or the chrome inspector tools`
`03:53.07`	`daleharvey`	`+ curl`
`03:53.11`	`JeffM`	`so locahost:gameport/http_plugin_name/request?param1=adfsdf&param2=dfasdfsadf`
`03:53.11`	`cpast`	`ok`
`03:53.17`	`cpast`	`ah`
`03:53.28`	`cpast`	`and in bz, i hear an event?`
`03:53.37`	`JeffM`	`then in your plugin you get an event in your HTTP handler`
`03:53.43`	`cpast`	`is there a way to do unsolicited traffic that way?`
`03:53.43`	`JeffM`	`it has the list of params and request`
`03:53.44`	`cpast`	`like`
`03:53.47`	`cpast`	`if someone joins`
`03:53.55`	`cpast`	`send a message that isnt a reply`
`03:53.58`	`JeffM`	`no`
`03:54.03`	`JeffM`	`well yes`
`03:54.08`	`JeffM`	`if you know where to send it to and they are listening`
`03:54.20`	`JeffM`	`there is a way to send your own HTTP request`
`03:54.29`	`JeffM`	`all HTTP starts with a request from a client to some server`
`03:54.38`	`JeffM`	`then the server responds`
`03:54.46`	`JeffM`	`the API supports both ways`
`03:55.32`	`JeffM`	`to support listening to a reques you derive your plugin from bzhttp_VDir`
`03:55.50`	`cpast`	`so id set up a server in the python and in bz?`
`03:55.54`	`cpast`	`to do 2 way?`
`03:56.08`	`JeffM`	`to send a request you just call bz_addURLJob`
`03:56.14`	`JeffM`	`yeah you could`
`03:56.36`	`JeffM`	`HTTP is connecitonless`
`03:56.43`	`JeffM`	`so each request is indpenent of the others`
`03:56.52`	`JeffM`	`it's not meant for bidirectional`
`03:57.07`	`JeffM`	`for that you'd be better off just opening a socket in python to bzfs and keeping it open`
`03:57.17`	`blast007`	`or set up a separate HTTP server tied to a database, and just have both the bot and bzfs talk to that`
`03:57.23`	`JeffM`	`yeah`
`03:57.28`	`JeffM`	`have bzfs fill out a state`
`03:57.35`	`blast007`	`lots of ways to do what you're trying to do`
`03:57.37`	`JeffM`	`then have your bot poll the state`
`03:57.46`	`JeffM`	`then if bzfs goes down the bot can get the last state`
`03:57.57`	`JeffM`	`or if the bot goes down you don't loose any data`
`03:58.27`	`JeffM`	`for a raw socket connection you get the event, bz_eNewNonPlayerConnection`
`03:58.45`	`JeffM`	`then tell bzfs you want to handle it`
`03:59.05`	`JeffM`	`and you register a bz_NonPlayerConnectionHandler for the connection`
`03:59.11`	`JeffM`	`it gets notified when there is new data`
`04:00.04`	`cpast`	`and to send?`
`04:00.11`	`JeffM`	`bz_sendNonPlayerData`
`04:00.23`	`JeffM`	`there is a group of non player connection functions in the API`
`04:00.28`	`JeffM`	`setting throttle caps`
`04:00.30`	`JeffM`	`timeouts`
`04:00.38`	`JeffM`	`diconnecting them`
`04:00.42`	`JeffM`	`checking IP and host`
`04:01.33`	`JeffM`	`if you want to keep a bidirectional channel open then just have python open a socket, send some connection info and have a plugin grab it`
`04:01.40`	`JeffM`	`then just pack up data and send back and forth`
`04:02.00`	`JeffM`	`thats the same thing that game clients to do the server`
`04:02.04`	`cpast`	`is there a way to do event-like things in python`
`04:02.13`	`cpast`	`so it keeps running while waiting for data?`
`04:02.16`	`JeffM`	`this is not #python but I'd thing so`
`04:02.21`	`JeffM`	`it has threads`
`04:02.21`	`cpast`	`ok`
`04:02.32`	`JeffM`	`you should probably learn python first`
`04:02.39`	`cpast`	`i know some, but not a ton`
`04:02.50`	`cpast`	`it has a really easy xmpp library`
`04:02.54`	`JeffM`	`ok`
`04:02.58`	`JeffM`	`that's only part of what you need`
`04:03.06`	`cpast`	`yeah`
`04:03.14`	`JeffM`	`I'm sure there are C++ xmpp libs too`
`04:03.18`	`JeffM`	`you could do it all in a plugin`
`04:03.30`	`JeffM`	`I did an IRC bot in a plugin`
`04:03.45`	`JeffM`	`made an IRC user for ever player and an observer for every IRC user`
`04:04.58`	`cpast`	`to put the chat in irc?`
`04:05.03`	`JeffM`	`yep`
`04:05.06`	`JeffM`	`it was a bridge`
`04:05.12`	`JeffM`	`all things said in IRC went to game chat`
`04:05.17`	`JeffM`	`and all game chat went to IRC`
`04:05.51`	`JeffM`	`even did bzdb authentication on IRC users so they could send commands to the server for kick and ban`
`04:06.11`	`cpast`	`that...seems awesome`
`04:06.20`	`JeffM`	`wasn't very useful`
`04:06.27`	`JeffM`	`and was very prone to abuse`
`04:06.41`	`JeffM`	`think how easy it woudl be to come to IRC and just spam out a bzfs server`
`04:07.03`	`JeffM`	`it was more of a proof of concept using server side players`
`04:08.10`	`cpast`	`wow`
`04:08.11`	`cpast`	`so`
`04:08.21`	`cpast`	`it seems like c++ xmpp may be easier than python`
`04:08.31`	`cpast`	`b/c it looks like it has better docs`
`04:08.35`	`cpast`	`and i know c++ better`
`04:08.43`	`cpast`	`thanks for the tip`
`04:08.45`	`JeffM`	`sure`
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`05:01.48`	`BulletCatcher`	`I_Died_Once: What was the exact name of the Debian package you installed to get the zlib header files?`
`05:02.39`	`blast007`	`I have zlib1g-dev installed here`
`05:03.09`	`JeffM`	`that's what I had on the VM I built today`
`05:03.20`	`BulletCatcher`	`I just want to get something appropriate added to the README.Linux file.`
`05:04.59`	`JeffM`	`I did the dependencies it said today and all built well for me`
`05:05.31`	`blast007`	`I haven't needed that package when building the debian stuff`
`05:05.48`	`JeffM`	`I think it only affected the debug build`
`05:05.57`	`JeffM`	`he was building fine in reelase`
`05:06.02`	`JeffM`	`cus he was building his own`
`05:06.50`	`BulletCatcher`	`We should encourage Linux users to use the system packages so they don't have to compile the bundled ones.`
`05:06.56`	`JeffM`	`true`
`05:07.00`	`BulletCatcher`	`It generally works better that way, anyway.`
`05:07.18`	`BulletCatcher`	`Do you have zlib1g-dev on your system, JeffM?`
`05:07.24`	`JeffM`	`that system is at work`
`05:07.29`	`JeffM`	`but that is the name that I had`
`05:07.42`	`JeffM`	`I can check my webserver to see if it has it`
`05:07.44`	`JeffM`	`it's ubuntu`
`05:09.19`	`blast007`	`zlib1g-dev on my ubuntu system was pulled in as a dependency with some other dev packages`
`05:09.36`	`JeffM`	`zlib1g-dev shows on mine too`
`05:09.49`	`JeffM`	`I think I got it from sdl`
`05:09.50`	`blast007`	`if uninstalled, it would break the following: libcurl4-openssl-dev libdirectfb-dev libfreetype6-dev libglib2.0-dev libpng12-dev libssl-dev`
`05:10.03`	`JeffM`	`sdl may need png`
`05:10.20`	`BulletCatcher`	`Okay, I am going to add it to the list.`
`05:10.52`	`JeffM`	`I was doing server and client, he was doing just server so he may not have picked up zlib when I did`
`05:11.00`	`JeffM`	`he may not have done sdl`
`05:11.14`	`blast007`	`the openssl version of libcurl needs it`
`05:11.19`	`JeffM`	`ahh`
`05:11.20`	`blast007`	`not sure about the gnutls version`
`05:11.53`	`blast007`	`yup, the gnutls one needs it as well`
`05:12.09`	`JeffM`	`he musta been using his own curl then too`
`05:12.43`	`blast007`	`probably`
`05:13.37`	`CIA-104`	`BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r22378 10/trunk/bzflag/README.Linux: Add zlib1g-dev to the list of required Debian/Ubuntu packages to ensure that the system zlib will be used.`
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`20:53.55`	`KTL`	`what is the syntax to kick/ban by #slot?`
`20:53.56`	`KTL`	`i tried`
`20:54.01`	`KTL`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:54.06`	`KTL`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:54.11`	`KTL`	`<PROTECTED>`
`20:54.14`	`KTL`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:02.34`	`Chestal`	`KTL: #0 should do the trick, try adding a reason`
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`23:21.31`	`KTL`	`Chestal, thanks`
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