| 00:10.11 | PropaneTank | so if you fry a processor, it doesn't make holes in the top does it? It seems i have grown a slight hole in the top of it |
| 00:10.41 | JeffM | really? |
| 00:10.51 | PropaneTank | the hole part? |
| 00:11.05 | JeffM | yeah it's not suposed to have a hole |
| 00:11.07 | PropaneTank | yeah. like a nick in it, seems some thermal paste sunk in it |
| 00:11.15 | PropaneTank | i didn't notice that when i unwraped it |
| 00:11.17 | JeffM | did it get discolered |
| 00:11.17 | PropaneTank | it was used |
| 00:11.29 | PropaneTank | not that i notice |
| 00:11.40 | PropaneTank | the only difference i see is the what seems to be a hole |
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| 00:12.03 | JeffM | I would doubt the hardware survived |
| 00:12.15 | JeffM | you may have overvolted it |
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| 00:13.32 | PropaneTank | well i know a guy that has a lot of computer parts. i'll see if i can get a motherboard that supports the processor and see. but i used a gift card to pay for it that i got for selling popcorn from trails end. so not out much |
| 00:13.37 | JeffM | what socket is the CPU? 775 or 478? |
| 00:13.42 | PropaneTank | 478 |
| 00:13.53 | JeffM | finding an 800mhz board for that may not be easy |
| 00:14.05 | PropaneTank | i found one...did you see my link to newegg? |
| 00:14.13 | JeffM | that was a 566 |
| 00:14.14 | PropaneTank | but i would need to buy ram |
| 00:14.16 | PropaneTank | oh |
| 00:14.25 | JeffM | what speed is your ram? |
| 00:14.27 | PropaneTank | said it supported it tho |
| 00:14.33 | PropaneTank | pc113 |
| 00:14.34 | JeffM | yeah it'll downclock it |
| 00:14.35 | JeffM | oh god |
| 00:14.42 | JeffM | dude, get a new PC |
| 00:14.45 | JeffM | it's way cheaper |
| 00:14.54 | JeffM | DD3 is super cheap |
| 00:15.13 | PropaneTank | problem is i can't afford one. |
| 00:15.19 | JeffM | work more |
| 00:15.26 | JeffM | you are just burning money trying to get old parts |
| 00:15.29 | PropaneTank | least i have my trusty laptop |
| 00:15.54 | blast007 | you could get something somewhat modern for $300 |
| 00:16.01 | JeffM | very |
| 00:16.15 | JeffM | a dual core AMD, mobo and ram should be around 200-250 |
| 00:16.15 | PropaneTank | i would like to get a quad core i5 or i7 |
| 00:16.30 | JeffM | I spend 350 on an i5 yesterday |
| 00:16.31 | JeffM | and a mobo |
| 00:16.45 | PropaneTank | currently my laptop has a dual core athlon 2ghz |
| 00:16.49 | JeffM | ewww |
| 00:16.53 | JeffM | I'm so sorry |
| 00:16.57 | PropaneTank | ...it works |
| 00:17.04 | PropaneTank | i run win8 and win 7 just fine |
| 00:17.07 | JeffM | for bzflag, and probbly not much more |
| 00:17.11 | PropaneTank | both at the same time |
| 00:17.11 | JeffM | how much ram? |
| 00:17.15 | PropaneTank | 4gig |
| 00:17.23 | PropaneTank | i play mc on it |
| 00:17.26 | PropaneTank | get around 20fps |
| 00:17.26 | JeffM | yeah run some modern games on that ;) |
| 00:17.29 | JeffM | ouch |
| 00:17.38 | PropaneTank | and thats pretty much lowest settings |
| 00:17.53 | PropaneTank | it fluxuates between 10 and 30 |
| 00:17.54 | blast007 | my PC gets around 300 FPS in MC ;) at 1920x1200 with settings maxed |
| 00:18.07 | blast007 | and I still need to upgrade my video card |
| 00:18.09 | JeffM | before I got the i5, I was looking at an AMD system, and 4 gigs of ram was like 35$ |
| 00:18.35 | blast007 | thinks there's a missing zero there |
| 00:19.08 | JeffM | no it was like 35$ |
| 00:19.16 | JeffM | you can get 8 gig kits for under 50 |
| 00:19.19 | blast007 | oh, just the RAM, you mean |
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| 00:19.24 | JeffM | yeah just ram |
| 00:19.34 | JeffM | the CPU was like 100, and another 50-60 for the mobo |
| 00:19.40 | blast007 | k, that makes more sense then. read it wrong. |
| 00:19.45 | JeffM | wasn't a great machine but it was better then my q6600 |
| 00:19.50 | JeffM | the i5 is way better |
| 00:19.57 | JeffM | but I didn't have to buy ram cus a friend of mine had some |
| 00:20.02 | JeffM | so now I have 16 |
| 00:20.09 | blast007 | 16GB is nice :) |
| 00:20.14 | JeffM | indeed |
| 00:20.27 | JeffM | swtor and firefox was using 4 gigs |
| 00:20.31 | JeffM | so now I got some room |
| 00:21.29 | PropaneTank | here is the parts list for the computer i wanna build. may be a bit outdated cause i made somewhere between june and october last year |
| 00:21.30 | PropaneTank | http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=17173612 |
| 00:22.02 | JeffM | I have that CPU |
| 00:22.19 | JeffM | get 8 gigs of ram |
| 00:22.20 | blast007 | ditto |
| 00:22.32 | JeffM | and wait till the end of the year for the hard drive |
| 00:22.36 | blast007 | and get a Corsair PSU. :) |
| 00:22.43 | blast007 | loves Corsair PSUs |
| 00:22.56 | JeffM | geta 460 not a 450 video card |
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| 00:23.23 | JeffM | or a 550TI |
| 00:23.38 | blast007 | probably want to avoid a mobo with onboard graphics ports as well. |
| 00:23.46 | JeffM | let me link the one I got |
| 00:23.54 | JeffM | it has onboard but you don't have to use it |
| 00:24.04 | JeffM | we've bought several of them at work and they are stable |
| 00:24.21 | blast007 | the chipsets with onboard graphics lack some other features, iirc |
| 00:24.34 | JeffM | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131773 |
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| 00:26.01 | PropaneTank | it's more like wait for a few years before i can build it. i could start buying parts now, but that'd be dumb cause by the time i get everything, newer better stuff would be out |
| 00:26.24 | blast007 | yeah, no point buying it in chunks |
| 00:26.55 | blast007 | but on the other hand, stop putting money into your craptastic P4 |
| 00:26.58 | PropaneTank | so do you gain anything by using HDMI for monitor input over VGA or DVI? |
| 00:27.22 | blast007 | generally you use HDMI for plugging into a TV |
| 00:27.23 | PropaneTank | blast007: i didn't put anything into it. i used a gift card for the processor |
| 00:27.46 | blast007 | using a gift card is putting money into it ;) |
| 00:27.47 | PropaneTank | so by getting an HDMI monitor, i'd be wasting money? |
| 00:27.53 | PropaneTank | i never put money on it. i got i |
| 00:27.54 | PropaneTank | t |
| 00:27.56 | blast007 | why do you want HDMI? |
| 00:28.05 | PropaneTank | sounds cooler than VGA and DVI |
| 00:28.07 | PropaneTank | :P |
| 00:28.15 | blast007 | ... my point is you could have used that gift card for something that wasn't a waste :P |
| 00:28.24 | blast007 | HDMI carries audio as well |
| 00:28.26 | PropaneTank | well i figure it would work |
| 00:28.33 | blast007 | so, there are some advantages |
| 00:28.35 | PropaneTank | well my monitor doesn't have speakers |
| 00:28.51 | blast007 | depends if you need the features that HDMI offers - I'd probably say that DVI is good enough |
| 00:29.19 | PropaneTank | hates that thrust vps makes u an invoice 3 weeks before it's due |
| 00:29.57 | JeffM | save up 500$ and buy what you can get when you have it |
| 00:30.24 | PropaneTank | cause when i was lookin at video cards and monitors, i wanted ones that had HDMI |
| 00:30.39 | PropaneTank | but now that I think about it, you can still run 1900xwhatevergoeshere and get hd |
| 00:30.48 | blast007 | this is the board I got: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128480 |
| 00:31.14 | blast007 | though it was a bit more than $132 ;) |
| 00:31.17 | JeffM | most displays now have HDMI |
| 00:31.38 | blast007 | I'd say *some* have it |
| 00:31.43 | blast007 | more so in the larger sizes |
| 00:31.55 | JeffM | why would you buy anything smaller then a 24? |
| 00:32.00 | JeffM | well 23 |
| 00:32.04 | blast007 | :P |
| 00:32.04 | JeffM | 23 is the bang/buck |
| 00:33.14 | PropaneTank | which is more economical. geting a whole new laptop or geting just a battery? |
| 00:33.32 | PropaneTank | i have a 6cell, but for 100$, i can get a 12cell from batteries+ |
| 00:33.53 | JeffM | I never find it reasonable to spend money on old things |
| 00:33.56 | JeffM | other parts will die |
| 00:34.00 | blast007 | the laptop sounds like it sucks if it can only muster up 20FPS in MC |
| 00:34.07 | JeffM | save the cash and get a new one |
| 00:34.08 | PropaneTank | cause my current one doesn't last long enough when i need it to |
| 00:34.12 | JeffM | low end new one but a new one |
| 00:34.29 | PropaneTank | i only paid 400$ for my current one |
| 00:34.48 | PropaneTank | part of my fps is windows |
| 00:34.51 | PropaneTank | i get a few more in linux |
| 00:35.01 | blast007 | so you get 23 in linux? :P |
| 00:35.15 | McYukon | lol |
| 00:35.16 | PropaneTank | yeah. most likely |
| 00:35.27 | JeffM | whopty friggin do |
| 00:35.37 | JeffM | I paid 500$ for my laptop when it was new |
| 00:35.42 | JeffM | they have come way down in price |
| 00:36.04 | JeffM | if you wan cheap get a refurb from tiger direct |
| 00:36.11 | JeffM | they always have remaned gateways |
| 00:36.16 | PropaneTank | i can play euro truck simulator pretty well. it probably like 15fps |
| 00:36.25 | blast007 | I paid over $800 for my thinkpad, and that was pretty much their lowest end model back in 2006 :P |
| 00:36.31 | JeffM | anything less then 30 is slower then bad eye's can see |
| 00:36.39 | blast007 | think I was one step up from the lowest.. |
| 00:37.20 | PropaneTank | and euro truck simulator wants a 3ghz p4 or equivilent for minimum i think |
| 00:37.34 | blast007 | and then I paid $800 for my horrible, horrible AMD Athlon X2 laptop that couldn't play games because it always overheated and clocked down to 800MHz every 5 seconds ... |
| 00:37.39 | JeffM | that sounds like a guy here that was playing SWToR on his AMD 4800+ |
| 00:37.48 | PropaneTank | i have an x2 |
| 00:37.59 | blast007 | the athlon x2 *sucks* |
| 00:38.03 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:38.10 | JeffM | with probably crap onboard ATI video |
| 00:38.11 | blast007 | it has two speeds. full, and half. |
| 00:38.17 | PropaneTank | had my laptop for 2 years now, going on 3 in june |
| 00:38.23 | PropaneTank | i have nvidia |
| 00:38.25 | blast007 | mine was an nVidia 7600 GT |
| 00:38.34 | PropaneTank | i have 8200m g i think |
| 00:38.35 | blast007 | with it's own RAM, even.. |
| 00:38.46 | PropaneTank | but i have shared ram |
| 00:38.59 | PropaneTank | 128mb of it |
| 00:39.15 | PropaneTank | but i loose 250mb of ram tho |
| 00:39.23 | PropaneTank | currently, the system can only use 3.75gb |
| 00:39.32 | JeffM | 32 bit windows? |
| 00:39.47 | PropaneTank | so it must be able to burst i'm guesing. no 64bit win7 home |
| 00:40.08 | JeffM | just don't set it on fire :) |
| 00:40.11 | PropaneTank | if i had 32bit, i'd only have 2.75gb |
| 00:40.23 | PropaneTank | whole reason i got 7 from vista |
| 00:40.29 | PropaneTank | cause i had 32bit vista |
| 00:40.43 | JeffM | windows7 license is fro 64 and 32 |
| 00:40.47 | JeffM | you can install ether or |
| 00:42.57 | PropaneTank | whats a good temp sensing software? |
| 00:43.36 | JeffM | a big fan |
| 00:43.44 | JeffM | then you don't care |
| 00:43.47 | blast007 | HWMonitor |
| 00:44.06 | JeffM | hmmmm... I get discrepancies between my stats and strayers stats :( |
| 00:44.11 | PropaneTank | is speedfan any good? |
| 00:44.13 | JeffM | wonder if he's delayed |
| 00:46.59 | McYukon | He says he queries servers every 5 minutes |
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| 00:47.12 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:47.14 | PropaneTank | where do you even download hwmonitor from? not seein a download link on their website anywhere |
| 00:47.40 | JeffM | tho I'm off by like 17 players |
| 00:47.42 | McYukon | Oh PropaneTank if you have heat problems come visit me. -36ยบ C here right now!! |
| 00:47.46 | PropaneTank | finally found it |
| 00:47.55 | JeffM | he says 98, I say 81 |
| 00:48.03 | JeffM | and 69 are non observer |
| 00:48.09 | JeffM | tho his site has been really slow lately |
| 00:48.15 | PropaneTank | mcyukon. haha. i'm good. cold enough here at like 10f |
| 00:48.44 | McYukon | ;) |
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| 00:50.35 | PropaneTank | wear level...44%. guessing thats on my battery |
| 00:50.48 | JeffM | you only get so many cycles |
| 00:51.08 | PropaneTank | oh, see i thought the battery would last forever ;) |
| 00:51.48 | PropaneTank | hdd is at 109 |
| 00:56.21 | blast007 | C or F? |
| 00:56.40 | PropaneTank | f |
| 00:57.02 | blast007 | mine are at low 80's |
| 00:57.04 | PropaneTank | doesn't say anything for the processor (which is why i wanted temp software) |
| 00:57.22 | blast007 | well, there may not be a sensor exposed |
| 00:57.29 | blast007 | or it might not be one that HWMonitor can read |
| 00:57.31 | PropaneTank | says amd turion too |
| 00:57.49 | blast007 | AMD Turion X2 |
| 00:58.13 | JeffM | that's the laptop branding for low power athalon x2s |
| 00:58.16 | blast007 | that's what I had in my crappy laptop.. wasn't an athlon I guess. |
| 00:58.19 | PropaneTank | ah |
| 00:58.33 | JeffM | it's a low power athalon |
| 00:58.38 | JeffM | not a phenom or anything |
| 00:58.39 | blast007 | yeah |
| 00:58.48 | JeffM | I have one in a gateway |
| 00:58.56 | JeffM | it's acceptable for browsing and stuff |
| 00:59.03 | JeffM | it'll run lotro but not swtor |
| 00:59.09 | blast007 | the manufacturer of my AMD laptop is no longer in business :P |
| 00:59.26 | PropaneTank | whos that? |
| 00:59.32 | blast007 | Everex |
| 01:00.01 | PropaneTank | so speed fan says that everything is over heating but the hdd |
| 01:00.12 | JeffM | then it probably is |
| 01:00.21 | JeffM | is it full of cat hair? |
| 01:00.27 | PropaneTank | lol. then it's been over heating for two years |
| 01:00.29 | PropaneTank | no pets |
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| 01:00.32 | blast007 | clean out the dust bunnies and run it on a flat surface |
| 01:00.37 | PropaneTank | is |
| 01:00.47 | PropaneTank | but there is dust |
| 01:00.49 | JeffM | possibly |
| 01:01.08 | JeffM | most AMDs won't hard fry untill 90-100C |
| 01:01.19 | JeffM | but it ain't good for em to run close to that |
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| 01:01.36 | PropaneTank | speedfan says 60 |
| 01:01.47 | JeffM | that's warm for a laptop |
| 01:01.50 | JeffM | is it under load? |
| 01:01.52 | PropaneTank | guessin core is a cpu |
| 01:01.55 | PropaneTank | nope |
| 01:02.00 | JeffM | that's not good |
| 01:02.08 | JeffM | should be in the 20-30's at idle |
| 01:02.10 | PropaneTank | running like 6 tabs in ie, icechat, msn messenger, speedfan |
| 01:02.11 | JeffM | you got bad airflow |
| 01:02.17 | swigg | get a can of compressed air and blow backward through the heatsink |
| 01:02.21 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:02.29 | PropaneTank | backward? |
| 01:02.31 | JeffM | if it's super old the thermal goo may be bad |
| 01:02.35 | JeffM | yeah blow in the out |
| 01:02.37 | swigg | reverse from normal flow |
| 01:02.48 | JeffM | lostens the stuff stuck on the heatsinks |
| 01:02.52 | PropaneTank | so ur saying i have to take off the case? |
| 01:03.01 | JeffM | it would be best to clean it, yes |
| 01:03.05 | swigg | and get a light and make sure you can see light through all the copper or aluminum vanes |
| 01:03.08 | JeffM | if you are woried about it |
| 01:03.29 | swigg | You don't have to take it apart |
| 01:03.34 | a_meteorite | PropaneTank: it's a laptop? |
| 01:03.42 | PropaneTank | then how do u blow backwards, and yes. it is |
| 01:03.52 | JeffM | it should have an output grill |
| 01:03.55 | JeffM | and an input grill |
| 01:03.55 | swigg | it will disperse |
| 01:04.07 | JeffM | do you feel air moving out of it somewhere? |
| 01:04.12 | JeffM | is the fan even on? |
| 01:04.12 | swigg | come out the fan inlet in little pieses or clumps |
| 01:04.18 | a_meteorite | most effective is taking it apart, of course, but you can get a LOT out just by blowing compressed air in the vents |
| 01:04.21 | PropaneTank | there is a vent under a fan over the cpu i think. then a air vent off the backish not far from it (few cm) |
| 01:04.23 | swigg | *pieces |
| 01:04.42 | PropaneTank | i always feel air and the fan is always on |
| 01:04.57 | PropaneTank | it's running slow tho |
| 01:05.02 | a_meteorite | wouldn't really recommend taking apart a laptop for beginners... unless the manufacturer has a guide |
| 01:05.03 | swigg | is it the nvidia chipset? |
| 01:05.08 | PropaneTank | but it sucks a good amount of air and blows some |
| 01:05.11 | PropaneTank | yup |
| 01:05.13 | JeffM | stick a can of air in the part you feel air come out of |
| 01:05.15 | swigg | HP? |
| 01:05.21 | a_meteorite | HP has some nice guides |
| 01:05.27 | PropaneTank | sort of. compaq |
| 01:05.39 | blast007 | PropaneTank: 60 C or F? :) you keep giving temps without units |
| 01:05.41 | swigg | oof. You might need to get your board reballed/reflowed |
| 01:06.12 | JeffM | blast007, he also shoved the wrong CPU in a mobo you really think he knows what he's doing? |
| 01:06.27 | a_meteorite | JeffM: :O |
| 01:06.34 | PropaneTank | my laptop: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/product?cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&product=3860070 |
| 01:06.47 | PropaneTank | the 60 was c |
| 01:06.50 | swigg | if it jams, force it; If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway |
| 01:09.51 | PropaneTank | i should run mc and see what the temps go to. |
| 01:10.09 | JeffM | clean it first |
| 01:10.15 | JeffM | unless you like breaking things |
| 01:10.41 | PropaneTank | hey, it's been like this every since i got the damn thing |
| 01:10.47 | PropaneTank | it has always ran warm |
| 01:10.59 | PropaneTank | it runs cooler tho on battery. i do notice that |
| 01:11.29 | JeffM | it probalby downclocks on batery to run longer |
| 01:11.38 | a_meteorite | windows changes its power settings depending if it's on battery or power |
| 01:12.33 | a_meteorite | PropaneTank: can't go wrong with just some compressed air in the vents |
| 01:15.06 | PropaneTank | cpuz says corespeed is 1ghz |
| 01:16.15 | PropaneTank | so i unplug it and goes up to 2ghz |
| 01:16.33 | JeffM | yes |
| 01:16.37 | JeffM | that's downclocking |
| 01:16.43 | JeffM | oh unplug |
| 01:16.44 | JeffM | tha'ts odd |
| 01:16.45 | PropaneTank | you mean upclocking |
| 01:16.50 | JeffM | chekc your power settings |
| 01:16.59 | JeffM | it should downclock on batter |
| 01:17.01 | JeffM | y |
| 01:17.33 | JeffM | but you can set it to do all kinds of wierd stuff if you have mucked with the settings |
| 01:17.58 | PropaneTank | hmmmm. i know why my battery don't last. for some off reason. on battery my processor has a min and max of 100% |
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| 01:22.17 | PropaneTank | gpu up to 95 and getting good fps. bettwen 40's and 50's |
| 01:22.20 | PropaneTank | c |
| 01:22.27 | PropaneTank | all temps posted are in c |
| 01:23.05 | blast007 | 95C? geez |
| 01:23.14 | blast007 | why don't you just set the thing on fire |
| 01:23.29 | PropaneTank | hit 101 on gpu and 90 cpu |
| 01:23.38 | PropaneTank | fans kicked into high speed |
| 01:23.44 | blast007 | ya think? |
| 01:23.51 | McYukon | I should hope so :P |
| 01:26.09 | PropaneTank | yeah, i might invest 10$ into a can of compressed air and see what that does (or is it $20?) |
| 01:26.35 | a_meteorite | I'd never pay that price |
| 01:26.45 | a_meteorite | Got a 6-pack of compressed air for under $10 at Costco |
| 01:26.50 | McYukon | Heh, I have free unlimited compressed air from my Dads tool shop :D |
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| 01:27.29 | a_meteorite | McYukon: compressed air from a compressor is potentially not ideal for computer components |
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| 01:27.37 | PropaneTank | i have an air compresser too, but it must have water in the tank cause when we empty it (after we finish using it) it's really wet |
| 01:30.41 | McYukon | True, but ours has always been dry and hasn't hurt our electronics yet. *knock on wood* |
| 01:32.00 | PropaneTank | a_meteorite: where do you buy compressed air at? |
| 01:32.28 | PropaneTank | pssshh. costco. duh |
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| 02:01.48 | a_meteorite | PropaneTank: you could also get it at an office or computer store but expect to pay an upmarked premium |
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| 04:29.08 | I_Died_Once | <mp |
| 04:29.23 | I_Died_Once | !mp |
| 04:29.48 | JeffM | what are you trying to do I_Died_Once |
| 04:30.25 | I_Died_Once | get the bot to tell what order i need to go by on -mp in the conf file |
| 04:30.41 | JeffM | that is what the wiki has not ibot |
| 04:39.55 | brad | ~bzmp |
| 04:39.55 | ibot | rogue,red,green,blue,purple,observer |
| 04:40.05 | I_Died_Once | thank you brad |
| 04:40.08 | brad | :-) |
| 04:40.16 | brad | sleeps |
| 04:40.21 | I_Died_Once | i knew i saw someone do that before |
| 04:42.43 | apeman | ~bzbzfs |
| 04:44.47 | JeffM | what do you expect that to do? |
| 04:46.15 | I_Died_Once | ...host a map? |
| 04:46.39 | JeffM | heh |
| 05:14.33 | JeffM | blast007, just FYI,I have an app scaning servers for the stats I was looking to collect |
| 05:14.53 | JeffM | it should be more efficent then stayers stuff but it becomes an issue, let me know and I can kill it |
| 05:15.26 | apeman | the low-quality ground pattern (green grid) - is there some texture to that effect or is it hardcoded? |
| 05:17.20 | JeffM | no that's drawn with geometry |
| 05:36.01 | apeman | say sky color is red. But it looks black if its wrong time of day. Can the server force everyone to see red? |
| 05:36.34 | JeffM | use a skybox |
| 05:36.46 | JeffM | that is drawn over the normal time based sky |
| 05:36.56 | JeffM | otherwise you are going to get the sun/moon cycle |
| 05:37.17 | JeffM | and I don't think there is a way to stop the stelar time in a particular spot |
| 05:38.23 | apeman | i am using skybox, but want to make the sky color stable whether textures are on and quality low |
| 05:38.59 | JeffM | set the emisive of the skybox material to full |
| 05:39.10 | JeffM | oh with textures off you may be boned |
| 05:39.39 | JeffM | really need to remove that option |
| 05:39.45 | JeffM | since you can never turn all textures off |
| 05:39.48 | JeffM | the fonts are textures |
| 05:41.05 | apeman | well one thing bugging me about skybox is, ground gets dirty window effect on medium quality |
| 05:41.49 | JeffM | ok |
| 05:42.11 | JeffM | the world isn't 100% customizable |
| 05:44.59 | I_Died_Once | completely different question, i was trying out different video formats on a windows machine and itsout of range for my monitor.... how do i reset that on windows? |
| 05:45.14 | JeffM | open the config,it'll be in there |
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| 07:55.15 | apeman | does skybox reject images not from images.bzflag.org? |
| 08:04.03 | apeman | nvm |
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| 13:48.02 | Quol | is it normal in 2.4 to have to force configure to use built-in area (--enable-ares-build)? ./configure kept using/detecting the system ares and pukeing half way into the client build? |
| 13:48.17 | Quol | s/area/ares |
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| 15:00.28 | BulletCatcher | Quol: What operating system, and what version of c-ares is already installed? |
| 15:05.54 | Quol | gentoo net-dns/c-ares |
| 15:05.59 | Quol | lol |
| 15:06.07 | Quol | net-dns/c-ares-1.5.3 |
| 15:06.12 | Quol | that's better :) |
| 15:06.30 | Quol | silly double-click copy |
| 15:07.01 | BulletCatcher | That is a very old version of c-ares. |
| 15:07.02 | BulletCatcher | I'm not surprised that you need to use the bundled version. |
| 15:07.43 | Quol | ya - haven't updated in a year or so....and because it's gentoo...I am too lazy to play with it for days while it's trying to update everything... |
| 15:08.09 | Quol | no big deal - as the --enable-ares config flag worked just fine |
| 15:08.26 | BulletCatcher | configure ought to be able to figure out for itself that the version is too old, but it would take effort to make that happen. |
| 15:10.18 | Quol | as I said - didn't know if this was expected or not, just wondered if you guys know about it (and it seems you do) |
| 15:13.00 | BulletCatcher | Well, I am just glad that you are finally upgrading to 2.4. :-p |
| 15:23.12 | Quol | lol...ya |
| 15:23.45 | Quol | so how bad is it if you think you are in /chroot/bzflag/usr/lib and you issue "rm -rf ./*" |
| 15:23.54 | Quol | only to realize that you are in /usr/lib |
| 15:24.00 | Quol | ...;/ |
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| 17:32.17 | CIA-112 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r22327 10/trunk/tools/: create tools dir for little things that should just be saved just in case |
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| 17:34.08 | CIA-112 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r22328 10/trunk/tools/BZStatCollector/: add threaded stat collector for posterity |
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| 17:47.53 | CIA-112 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r22329 10/trunk/tools/BZStatCollector/ (27 files in 7 dirs): add threaded stat collector for posterity |
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| 18:00.56 | CIA-112 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * r22330 10/trunk/tools/BZStatCollector/ (3 files in 2 dirs): missing files and set the framework version to something that will work with mono. |
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| 18:03.10 | JeffM | any webheads out there know about systems that generate charts? |
| 18:06.24 | blast007 | JeffM: you looking for server-side generation or client-side? |
| 18:07.20 | JeffM | honestly I don't care |
| 18:07.29 | JeffM | did you see the googledoc I shared with you |
| 18:07.42 | blast007 | nope, haven't checked email |
| 18:08.09 | JeffM | k |
| 18:08.22 | JeffM | well I used a googledoc to make a graph of players and servers |
| 18:08.34 | blast007 | does it need to be a free graphing system? |
| 18:08.38 | JeffM | and it's realy cool and interactive |
| 18:08.47 | JeffM | I just want something to show graphs like that |
| 18:08.56 | JeffM | but I don't think the googledoc will work in the long run |
| 18:09.00 | I_Died_Once | graphs are awesome |
| 18:09.05 | JeffM | cus it's building it from a spreadsheet |
| 18:09.12 | JeffM | and that sheet will get HELLA huge over time |
| 18:09.24 | JeffM | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agca59DESlNKdHpYc213UU5RbW90NUlZa2pWS3ZWelE&hl=en_US#gid=3 |
| 18:10.11 | JeffM | and yes I'd be willing to pay something if it's reasonable |
| 18:11.27 | blast007 | there's "highcharts", but their pricing is a bit expensive.. |
| 18:11.35 | blast007 | since you have to pay per developer |
| 18:12.12 | blast007 | what server side langauge? PHP? |
| 18:12.18 | JeffM | sure |
| 18:12.23 | JeffM | it can be whatevs |
| 18:12.34 | JeffM | I'm just trying to see if what I want to do is possible |
| 18:12.47 | JeffM | I have the collector working but it's useless without a way to view the data |
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| 18:13.29 | blast007 | http://us2.php.net/manual/en/book.rrd.php |
| 18:13.32 | JeffM | yeah that is a bit pricy |
| 18:15.00 | blast007 | though looking at at tutorial, that's not very intuitive to use.. http://www.ioncannon.net/system-administration/59/php-rrdtool-tutorial/ |
| 18:16.22 | JeffM | yeah that makes graphs that look a lot like some of the bandwith trackers I've seen ISPs have |
| 18:16.48 | JeffM | I like that the google doc one has an interactive timescale |
| 18:16.52 | JeffM | like a stock tracker |
| 18:17.05 | blast007 | http://sourceforge.net/projects/pchart/ http://pchart.sourceforge.net/screenshots.php |
| 18:18.00 | blast007 | their doesn't doesn't seem to work though :) |
| 18:18.25 | blast007 | ah, they have a new site. http://www.pchart.net/ |
| 18:19.54 | blast007 | seems that they don't understand that the GPL allows commercial use, though :) |
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| 18:26.10 | JeffM | yeah but they can apply any license they want even the GPL with mods :) |
| 18:27.08 | blast007 | but they link to the GPL at gnu.org |
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| 18:28.23 | blast007 | in any case, the advantage of a client-side chart library is that they can be interactive |
| 18:28.29 | blast007 | so it depends what you need |
| 18:28.58 | blast007 | http://moochart.coneri.se/ this is client side, but uses the <canvas> tag |
| 18:29.15 | blast007 | so it won't work in IE8 and below without excanvas or similar shims |
| 18:32.39 | JeffM | that sounds like a FEATURE :) |
| 18:32.45 | blast007 | heh |
| 18:33.11 | blast007 | looks like it only does bubble charts |
| 18:33.16 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:35.13 | JeffM | well at some point I need to get the system throwing the data into a database |
| 18:35.27 | JeffM | then I'll see if strayer wants to pull from that instead of his poiller |
| 18:35.30 | JeffM | poller |
| 18:35.40 | JeffM | cus I think he polls every server no mater what |
| 18:36.13 | blast007 | http://dygraphs.com/ |
| 18:36.29 | JeffM | yeah that looks cool |
| 18:36.56 | blast007 | oooo, you can even zoom in on a section of the graph by dragging |
| 18:37.04 | JeffM | that's cool |
| 18:37.13 | blast007 | and then a double click to reset it |
| 18:37.19 | JeffM | be nice if you could pan after you zoom |
| 18:37.24 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:37.32 | JeffM | ahh shift drag |
| 18:37.33 | blast007 | oh, you can, hold shift and drag :) |
| 18:37.45 | JeffM | that will probalby work |
| 18:37.46 | blast007 | that's awesome |
| 18:37.56 | blast007 | I will have to remember that one for later |
| 18:37.58 | JeffM | anyone want to hook that up for me? :) |
| 18:44.19 | Quol | JeffM, I have used this in the past with various web projects at work: http://teethgrinder.co.uk/open-flash-chart-2/ |
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| 18:44.58 | JeffM | cool |
| 18:45.22 | Quol | they can be fairly fluid, works with .net, php/whatever as you just need to hand the library some json.. |
| 18:45.53 | JeffM | I was just going to put the data into an sql database |
| 18:46.47 | Quol | yup - but then you just need a SQL query, a little front end script to transform it into whatever format needed (json, xml, etc..) and hand it to the charting component |
| 18:47.22 | JeffM | or to find someoine willing to do it for me :) |
| 18:47.27 | Quol | hehe |
| 18:47.35 | Quol | hint hint hint I hear in my ear |
| 18:47.46 | JeffM | I suck at web pages |
| 18:48.48 | Quol | well - I am in the middle ot porting over my server to a new one for my bzfs instances - and I have to fix tons of crap with that (long time I have been putting off certain things)...but maybe after that I can think about it - what do you need? |
| 18:49.38 | JeffM | I want a graph that looks like this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agca59DESlNKdHpYc213UU5RbW90NUlZa2pWS3ZWelE&hl=en_US#gid=3 |
| 18:49.42 | JeffM | but isn't tied to google docs |
| 18:49.51 | JeffM | cus I think that the spreadsheet will get HELLA large |
| 18:49.56 | Quol | and I just "helped" things along by making a big ooops (rm -rf usr/lib from a chroot...but I wasn't in a chroot, I was in / )... |
| 18:50.56 | Quol | that should be too hard...you can even use RRD for that |
| 18:51.01 | Quol | *shouldn't |
| 18:51.22 | JeffM | with the variable time frames and the scrolly? |
| 18:52.02 | Quol | the scrolly doesn't work in IE...hole on |
| 18:52.12 | JeffM | I do not give a crap about IE |
| 18:52.19 | JeffM | it is evil |
| 18:52.25 | Quol | lol - that's what I opened it with :) |
| 18:52.34 | JeffM | then you are evil |
| 18:52.45 | Quol | this, coming from a windows dev.. |
| 18:52.54 | Quol | :) |
| 18:53.26 | Quol | i don't get the scolly...I am in chrome, and it does nothing - what's it supposed to do - drag to different times? |
| 18:54.10 | JeffM | set the time scale to the 5min one |
| 18:54.16 | JeffM | I don't have a day of data yet |
| 18:54.40 | Quol | RRDTool excels at storing/plotting time related opints of data - so ya, that could work - but I can think about it |
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| 19:18.30 | Quol | JeffM, something like this? http://www.highcharts.com/stock/demo/compare |
| 19:19.35 | Quol | if so, that should be straight forward, and can probably try to get a demo together (can't promise a timeline though) |
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| 19:33.25 | blast007 | Quol: highcharts was mentioned, but it's expensive |
| 19:33.49 | Quol | free for opensource/non-profit ;) |
| 19:34.23 | Quol | I guess the actual wording was free for non-commercial...so as long as you don't sell it - it's pretty much free |
| 19:35.24 | blast007 | we're not necessarily non-profit :) |
| 19:36.05 | blast007 | we're not an NPO, and we're not making a "personal web site" ;) |
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| 19:39.33 | Quol | well - are you making money from this project? if the answer is no, in my books, that is you not making a profit ;) |
| 19:39.44 | Im_handsome1984 | |
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| 21:03.01 | JeffM | Quol, we have made money, several thousand dollars |
| 21:04.40 | ruskie | also nothing in the GPL/LGPL really prevents making money off of it |
| 21:04.48 | JeffM | nope |
| 21:04.59 | JeffM | want to buy a copy of bzflag? |
| 21:05.02 | JeffM | I used to sell em |
| 21:05.04 | ruskie | I have one |
| 21:05.06 | ruskie | thanks ;) |
| 21:05.11 | JeffM | but this one is signed |
| 21:05.12 | ruskie | purchased it at the time |
| 21:05.24 | ruskie | with the neat label and all |
| 21:05.32 | ruskie | still on my shelf |
| 21:05.43 | JeffM | gathering dust, just like the code :) |
| 21:05.52 | ruskie | it's a nice piece ;) |
| 21:07.17 | ruskie | frankly I'm not amazed that often people consider Free/Open Source as free as in beer |
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| 21:07.42 | ruskie | last I checked the FSF was all for selling software just as long as the source is handed along the way |
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| 21:07.50 | JeffM | yep |
| 21:08.10 | JeffM | thats why I had no problems putting a subscription system in my proposal for a new game :) |
| 21:08.29 | ruskie | hehe |
| 21:08.37 | ruskie | if I actually still played |
| 21:08.40 | JeffM | got to pay the developers and admins some how |
| 21:08.52 | ruskie | stopped playing a long time ago |
| 21:09.16 | JeffM | so no servers have had an issue with my polling system? |
| 21:09.26 | JeffM | it's only polling like 4-10 servers at a time |
| 21:10.59 | ruskie | poofs into the dark rafters |
| 21:15.21 | Quol | JeffM, good for you guys getting a couple of $$...didn't know that :) I know that you can absolutely make money off of open-source (support, donations, charge for compiled product etc..), but didn't know that the project has brought in some cash - good for you guys |
| 21:15.58 | JeffM | SOC paid us |
| 21:16.10 | Quol | ahh - cool. good ol google |
| 21:16.12 | JeffM | it never went to any use other then buying shirts |
| 21:18.05 | JeffM | there are still several thousand dolars outstanding that I don't think we'll ever see |
| 21:19.06 | *** join/#bzflag cp (ad4fe549@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.79.229.73) |
| 21:19.32 | cp | im having an issue with users connecting to a server |
| 21:19.49 | cp | it keeps kicking them after they fire a shot with error "no udp" |
| 21:19.58 | cp | and i looked at the router log, and its connecting with tcp |
| 21:20.02 | cp | any idea why? |
| 21:21.43 | JeffM | doyou block UDP? |
| 21:21.49 | JeffM | cus bzflag uses both |
| 21:21.53 | cp | not that im aware of |
| 21:22.01 | Quol | JeffM: are you still the one who does DNS changes for bzflag.net records? I need to change quol.bzflag.net -> 66.228.32.16 |
| 21:22.03 | JeffM | they will connect with TCP then try to connect with UDP |
| 21:22.04 | cp | i just downloaded a port scanner |
| 21:22.22 | JeffM | Quol, nope, that's Tim send him an email to Tim@Rikers.org |
| 21:22.28 | Quol | kk |
| 21:22.39 | JeffM | cp, your ISP may block UDP hosting, is it a home connection? |
| 21:23.38 | cp | yeah |
| 21:23.41 | cp | any way to check? |
| 21:25.07 | swigg | Sounds like a hardware issue; I had the same prob when I had a routher that did not suupport all the protocols |
| 21:25.29 | swigg | Have you put your machine in a DMZ? |
| 21:25.34 | cp | no |
| 21:25.38 | cp | i have port forwarding |
| 21:25.56 | swigg | Not all routers keep the UDP alive |
| 21:26.13 | cp | ok |
| 21:26.16 | cp | ill try a dmz |
| 21:26.20 | swigg | Had the best luck with linksys |
| 21:27.56 | JeffM | did you forwad both TCP and UDP |
| 21:28.01 | cp | yeah |
| 21:28.05 | cp | and still errors in dmz |
| 21:28.07 | JeffM | DMZ is VERY dangerous and should only be a last resort |
| 21:28.13 | cp | any way to check if the isp is blocking? |
| 21:28.16 | JeffM | it's hard to test for it |
| 21:28.19 | JeffM | ask them |
| 21:28.28 | swigg | If you are on a home system, you might want to get a WRT54G or get one of the enterprise grade VPN routers |
| 21:28.57 | JeffM | ask the ISP first before you go through all that trouble |
| 21:29.00 | cp | im not sure if i can replace the isp router (it does some tv stuff too) |
| 21:29.05 | cp | ill check with the isp |
| 21:29.09 | JeffM | many home conenctions don't allow hosting |
| 21:29.15 | JeffM | so they block that kind of stuff |
| 21:30.44 | spldart | True that. Comcast in houston and surrounding area used to let you get a gameserver or fileserver goin. Last two modems/locations however I have been completely unable to get one to work. |
| 21:31.10 | cp | i have verizon fios in dc area. anyone know if they block? |
| 21:31.48 | mdskpr_ | i know some players who have fios |
| 21:31.53 | mdskpr_ | not sure if regions differ tho |
| 21:31.55 | JeffM | call them and ask |
| 21:41.37 | swigg | mdskpr? |
| 21:51.49 | cp | huh |
| 21:51.50 | cp | so |
| 21:51.58 | cp | my router is blocking all udp, it seems |
| 21:52.04 | cp | "udp flood protection" |
| 21:52.14 | cp | im getting tons of utorrent traffic |
| 21:55.07 | swigg | are you currently running torrents? |
| 21:58.13 | cp | no |
| 21:58.22 | cp | closed utorrent like half an hour ago |
| 22:07.26 | Quol | are you sure you closed it? sometimes it just minimizes to the system tray when you close the window (you have to do file -> exit or something) |
| 22:08.10 | cp | yep |
| 22:08.15 | cp | i may just reboot the router |
| 22:08.18 | cp | see if that helps |
| 22:19.44 | *** join/#bzflag Supertanker (~Supertank@unaffiliated/supertanker) |
| 22:23.10 | JeffM | heh you want to torrent AND host |
| 22:23.17 | JeffM | that will have to be one jittery server |
| 22:28.29 | cp | i killed the torrent client |
| 22:28.47 | cp | but i am trying to figure out how long it will take for incoming connections to slow/stop |
| 22:32.00 | cp | any ideas? |
| 22:32.05 | cp | and why would it be so sudden? |
| 22:35.20 | JeffM | hard to say since there could be soo many things going on your system |
| 22:36.30 | cp | utorrent was on a diff computer |
| 22:36.43 | JeffM | how many linux distroubtions do you need to download? |
| 22:38.28 | *** join/#bzflag cp__ (ad4fe549@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.79.229.73) |
| 22:39.18 | cp__ | so yeah |
| 22:39.28 | cp__ | just never stopped it |
| 22:39.35 | JeffM | but really it's your network so it's hard for us to know what would be wrong, and if you aren't comfortable or capable of managing it like that, then it is probalby dangerous for you host a server |
| 22:39.57 | cp__ | like what? |
| 22:40.01 | cp__ | did i miss something? |
| 22:40.52 | JeffM | I just mean configuring your network in general |
| 22:40.58 | JeffM | it's not something we like to help with |
| 22:41.00 | cp__ | oh |
| 22:41.03 | JeffM | cus there are so many variations |
| 22:41.07 | cp__ | ok |
| 22:41.18 | JeffM | and if something is wrong it could be very dangerous to your network |
| 22:41.26 | JeffM | thats why I never recomend DMZing a machine |
| 22:41.33 | JeffM | it just puts it on the raw internet |
| 22:44.10 | CIA-112 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r22331 10/trunk/tools/BZStatCollector/ (6 files in 3 dirs): add db class to start putting collected data into tables. |
| 22:53.03 | blast007 | cp__: closing your torrent client doesn't instantly remove you from everyone's torrent client peer list. |
| 22:55.27 | cp__ | ok |
| 23:00.21 | cp__ | will waiting long enough solve it? |
| 23:03.34 | blast007 | waiting long enough for what? |
| 23:03.44 | blast007 | waiting isn't going to fix your UDP issue with bzfs |
| 23:05.12 | blast007 | JeffM: what kind of data are you wanting to query - detailed stuff, or just counts? |
| 23:05.52 | JeffM | blast007, for a graph I just want the counts |
| 23:05.59 | JeffM | I am going to save player and server data too |
| 23:06.25 | blast007 | why? |
| 23:06.27 | JeffM | so it may be nice to query the play counts per server or per player |
| 23:06.31 | JeffM | I don't know |
| 23:06.34 | JeffM | cus I can? :) |
| 23:06.37 | blast007 | :) |
| 23:06.43 | JeffM | the only thing I really want is the total counts |
| 23:06.47 | JeffM | and that's what I"m tracking now |
| 23:07.02 | JeffM | servers that report players, and total players that are not observer |
| 23:07.19 | JeffM | I may also go and remove non observer players that are not reported as human |
| 23:07.39 | JeffM | I am not sure if the servers reporting players are ones that have observers or not |
| 23:08.11 | blast007 | there's already that perl module that can query 2.0 servers |
| 23:08.18 | blast007 | would just need to be updated to 2.4's protocol |
| 23:08.25 | JeffM | I have the query system done |
| 23:08.29 | JeffM | it's running now |
| 23:08.29 | blast007 | k |
| 23:08.34 | JeffM | that was the easy part |
| 23:08.38 | blast007 | what'd you write it in? |
| 23:08.46 | JeffM | it's a C# app that fully parses the list server |
| 23:08.51 | blast007 | k :) |
| 23:09.09 | JeffM | then threads out requests for game info on the servers that report players |
| 23:09.13 | JeffM | so it's very fast |
| 23:09.24 | JeffM | does the current servers in like 30 seconds |
| 23:09.46 | blast007 | http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/connector/net |
| 23:09.47 | JeffM | I have it running under mono on awesomelaser |
| 23:09.56 | JeffM | yes that is what I am doing now |
| 23:09.59 | blast007 | k |
| 23:10.00 | JeffM | making it save to db |
| 23:10.07 | JeffM | I've used the connector a LOT of times :) |
| 23:10.11 | blast007 | hehe |
| 23:10.23 | JeffM | we use it here to take info from accounting into licensing |
| 23:10.42 | JeffM | since our accounting system has no export/external access |
| 23:11.07 | JeffM | I just did the CSV dump first to make sure the app worked |
| 23:11.13 | JeffM | and to see what some of the data looked like |
| 23:11.18 | JeffM | it was super easy |
| 23:13.31 | JeffM | tho I do think the time is set wrong on my server :) |
| 23:32.57 | I_Died_Once | i got wings in a jumpless place! |
| 23:33.03 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 23:33.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 23:43.37 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3- (~ahs3-@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:49.41 | CIA-112 | BZFlag: 03Gong 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r0 10/User:Gong: |