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| 00:25.21 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03Joevano 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8152 10/Jargon: Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Wildrune11|Wildrune11]] ([[User talk:Wildrune11|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:70.190.212.127|70.190.212.127]] |
| 00:26.05 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r22241 10/trunk/bzflag/data/bzflag.desktop: Remove bzflag from the 3DGraphics category |
| 00:26.25 | blast007 | heh, hours later my commit shows up ;) |
| 00:27.29 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22242 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (MasterBanList.cxx MasterBanList.h): (performance) Function parameter 'URL' should be passed by reference. |
| 00:27.30 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22243 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/BanCommands.cxx: |
| 00:27.31 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (performance) Possible inefficient checking for 'bans' emptiness. |
| 00:27.41 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (performance) Prefer prefix ++/-- operators for non-primitive types. |
| 00:28.08 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22244 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: bz_filterPath check on parameter is/should be reversed |
| 00:34.35 | Supertanker | Hmm. Come to think of it, why *don't* bots shoot lasers if, for example, they have a laser flag? (Through /flag give) |
| 00:34.49 | Supertanker | A quick glance through the source code is suggesting that they're using the same fireShot method as a player on autopilot.... |
| 00:37.34 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03Mdskpr 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8153 10/DevelopmentPlans/2.4.2: /* Secondary */ strike bug |
| 00:38.20 | JeffM | yes it jsut tells the client what to do |
| 00:38.36 | JeffM | it's not that they can't use flags, they just don't know |
| 00:39.31 | Supertanker | So they don't know they have the flag but if they did know, fireShot would probably just work? |
| 00:40.49 | JeffM | fire shot shoots what you have |
| 00:42.32 | Supertanker | And I'm suspecting the bot doesn't know it has a laser. |
| 00:42.37 | Supertanker | Or what-have-you. |
| 00:42.46 | JeffM | yeah it does not |
| 00:44.07 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22245 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: (style) Variables 'ext' and 'field' are assigned values that are never used |
| 00:44.21 | JeffM | the AI logic dosn't know what to do with each flag |
| 00:44.29 | JeffM | or that it should pick them up |
| 00:44.36 | Supertanker | Hmmm |
| 00:44.43 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22246 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: |
| 00:44.48 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (style) Checking if unsigned variable 'size' is less than zero. |
| 00:44.48 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (performance) Possible inefficient checking for 'Tasks' emptiness. |
| 00:44.48 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (performance) Prefer prefix ++/-- operators for non-primitive types. |
| 00:46.01 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22247 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: connectionTimeout is a constant |
| 00:46.52 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22248 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: |
| 00:46.52 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (style) Variables 'opt' & 'teamName' are assigned a value that is never used |
| 00:46.52 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (performance) Function parameter 'x' should be passed by reference. |
| 00:46.52 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (performance) Possible inefficient checking for emptiness. |
| 00:46.53 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (performance) Prefer prefix ++/-- operators for non-primitive types. |
| 00:46.53 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22249 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: define opt only if needed |
| 00:47.37 | Supertanker | Well, if I can get it to fier a laser when I get it to have a laser, I'll worry about flag picking up later. :) |
| 00:47.47 | Supertanker | Heh: "FIXME -- Robots don't pick up flags" |
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| 01:25.21 | Supertanker | Ahhh. So BZFS won't even send bot players updates. |
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| 02:30.19 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03Wildrune11 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8154 10/Flag_List: /* Good Superflags */ - Adding link to a page I am about to write |
| 02:33.25 | JeffM | Supertanker, because they are always attached to a real player so they can use his updates |
| 02:52.44 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03Wildrune11 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8155 10/Laser: Created page on the Laser superflag. |
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| 03:34.11 | yosefk | can someone please check to see if "yosefs test server" is showing up in the public list? |
| 03:34.30 | JeffM | you can look at it in a browser |
| 03:34.34 | JeffM | it's just http |
| 03:35.09 | yosefk | oh, thanks, I forgot |
| 03:36.01 | yosefk | I see it, but why do I also see something like yosef-gateway.xxxx-etc? |
| 03:36.56 | JeffM | that is the lan discovery |
| 03:37.08 | JeffM | I assume this is on a machine on the same network as the server? |
| 03:37.15 | yosefk | yes |
| 03:37.29 | JeffM | yeah it's finding it on the lan IP and the global IP |
| 03:40.41 | yosefk | thank you |
| 03:58.58 | blast007 | I think -q might quell the local discovery |
| 03:59.25 | blast007 | but I've never actually tried it |
| 04:16.44 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03Wildrune11 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8156 10/User:Wildrune11: Added a bit of info about myself. |
| 04:20.28 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03Wildrune11 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8157 10/Hix: Fixed a grammar mistake |
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| 10:29.46 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03Mr Burns 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8158 10/ShockWave: /* sp. */ |
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| 16:29.18 | mdskpr__ | bzflag.org looks dead |
| 16:30.05 | mdskpr__ | or not. |
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| 18:51.38 | apeman | does anyone know about trepan's veldrv plugin? |
| 18:52.05 | blast007 | what about it? |
| 18:52.55 | apeman | what it does and how it works |
| 18:53.09 | blast007 | doesn't it say what it does on the forum post? |
| 18:53.52 | apeman | general idea yes, but i need to know exactly |
| 18:54.13 | blast007 | it change the tank speed and turning speed in certain map-defined areas |
| 18:54.41 | blast007 | and it does so in a rather "hackish" way, since there is not actually direct support for such a thing in the game |
| 18:55.00 | apeman | yes, thats the part i'm interested in |
| 18:55.08 | blast007 | it sends directed BZDB (/set) updates to the individual tank that changes their local copy of the BZDB values |
| 18:55.30 | blast007 | so one tank may see a _tankSpeed of 50, while another will see 30 |
| 18:55.40 | apeman | map physics is a subset of what phydrv can achieve? |
| 18:55.48 | blast007 | definately not a "supported" feature of the game, and probably not without side effects |
| 18:56.08 | blast007 | physic drivers change the physics of an area |
| 18:56.12 | blast007 | this is completely separate |
| 18:56.22 | blast007 | this just forces a BZDB change to that client |
| 18:56.39 | apeman | so this has nothing much to do with phydrv.h? |
| 18:56.45 | blast007 | no |
| 18:57.05 | apeman | ahhhhh |
| 18:57.23 | blast007 | it's a new map object |
| 18:57.31 | blast007 | that is then read by that plugin |
| 18:57.48 | apeman | so its just a speed/angular zone thing |
| 18:57.49 | JeffM | yeah there is only a limited subset of values that can be safely changed |
| 18:57.51 | blast007 | and the plugin watches where people go and will trigger a change when they enter/leave a zone |
| 18:57.58 | blast007 | and that plugin will not work on Windows |
| 18:58.01 | JeffM | there is probably some lag in it too |
| 18:58.28 | blast007 | personally, I'd say *none* of them can be safely changed ;) |
| 18:58.41 | JeffM | there are configurations where that is true |
| 18:58.58 | JeffM | if speed is used in the computation of any other variable |
| 18:59.05 | blast007 | right, but it's unsafe to bypass the API |
| 18:59.22 | JeffM | very |
| 18:59.24 | blast007 | since there's no guarantee that we won't start to use those vars more even in a minor release |
| 18:59.52 | JeffM | or use them in different ways |
| 18:59.56 | blast007 | yep |
| 19:00.08 | JeffM | there is a reason it was never put into trunk:) |
| 19:00.09 | apeman | hence disableSpeedChecks |
| 19:00.16 | JeffM | oh god yeah |
| 19:00.27 | JeffM | the server itself dosn't know you are suposed to go that fast |
| 19:00.32 | JeffM | only the plugin knows |
| 19:01.23 | JeffM | the game itself only has storage for ONE tank speed for all tanks |
| 19:01.32 | JeffM | per application |
| 19:01.53 | JeffM | it would totaly not work with solobots ether |
| 19:02.45 | blast007 | and if you put in a physics driver with a linear acceleration, the server disabled the speed checks anyways ;) |
| 19:02.59 | JeffM | the server is so lame :) |
| 19:03.00 | blast007 | we've added features and not bothered to keep up with the checks.. |
| 19:03.30 | blast007 | it's not much more intelligent than it was back in 1.7.. |
| 19:04.18 | apeman | lol |
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| 19:05.33 | JeffM | it's not really funny, it's sadly true |
| 19:05.42 | JeffM | the server is in a bad way |
| 19:57.16 | Supertanker | I'm assuming that a server re-write is a major slated request/feature for 3.0? :) |
| 19:57.50 | blast007 | no |
| 19:58.11 | blast007 | 2.99.x has mostly the same server logic :P |
| 19:58.23 | Supertanker | Oh. Don't mind me, I haven't been keeping up with development for about the past six years, heh. |
| 19:58.25 | blast007 | a re-write would be for when we start a new project |
| 19:58.37 | Supertanker | Ahhh. Well, after looking through the code, I can see why it'd be so major. |
| 19:58.47 | blast007 | since the problem isn't just the server.. the problem is the whole thing |
| 19:59.04 | blast007 | the clients do far too much of the "thinking" |
| 19:59.15 | Supertanker | Thinner clients would be nicer, aye. |
| 19:59.21 | blast007 | yeah |
| 19:59.34 | Supertanker | Less opportunities to cheat, less bw, etc, etc. |
| 19:59.47 | blast007 | and when we say we want to make the server do more of the logic, people are all "omg, but then the server will need lots of CPU power!" |
| 19:59.49 | Supertanker | Yes, I'm just spewing what I've been reading |
| 19:59.51 | blast007 | ;) |
| 20:00.11 | Supertanker | Heh, I forgot to look and see how my server was faring with 100 bots |
| 20:00.20 | blast007 | (but they don't realize that 99% of the client processing is the graphics) |
| 20:00.23 | Supertanker | But judging by how the fan wasn't spinning up at all, I'm guessing "hardly stressed" |
| 20:00.37 | blast007 | yeah, probably |
| 20:00.52 | blast007 | the client machine is probably crapping itself though |
| 20:00.57 | Supertanker | Heh, I'll try it agian and see what happens. |
| 20:01.06 | Supertanker | And yes, it was. It's a "mere" 2.6GHz P4. How sad. |
| 20:01.10 | blast007 | probably flooding the connection on the client |
| 20:01.18 | blast007 | since they don't share any data ;) |
| 20:01.19 | Supertanker | BW was about 5mbit or so. |
| 20:01.23 | Supertanker | But it's a local LAN connection. |
| 20:01.29 | blast007 | k |
| 20:01.39 | Supertanker | 5-10mbit anyway, but I'll let you know in a sec. I'm in a rainy-day mood. |
| 20:01.46 | blast007 | just depends if the buffers can actually handle all that |
| 20:02.20 | Supertanker | All I have left to do today is decide what I want for Christmas, even though I feel a bit old for Christmas. My parents are begging me for a list of things under $50 since I don't really want anything this year that isn't extremely specific. |
| 20:02.26 | blast007 | I don't know much/anything about programming network applications.. so I'm not sure if we have to "tune" stuff to make it handle that kind of thing |
| 20:02.32 | Supertanker | How dare I not want something, right? Anyway, brb. |
| 20:02.51 | blast007 | then again, all that network data is being procesed in the same thread, so your CPU has to find time to send it off and receive it and process it between drawing frames ;) |
| 20:03.19 | Supertanker | A headless bot client really would be awesome. I'm wondering how that uni 470 AI class ripped out all the graphics code from BZFlag 1.7 |
| 20:03.26 | Supertanker | I imagine it was eaiser back then with a smaller codebase. |
| 20:03.33 | blast007 | eh |
| 20:03.35 | blast007 | maybe |
| 20:03.36 | blast007 | :P |
| 20:03.45 | blast007 | bzfs was mostly a single file back then.. a single..huge..file... |
| 20:03.56 | blast007 | like 250KB big |
| 20:03.58 | Supertanker | Still is :P |
| 20:03.59 | blast007 | the source |
| 20:04.03 | Supertanker | Well, maybe not that ig. |
| 20:04.09 | blast007 | it was a beast |
| 20:04.11 | Supertanker | They modified the client I think though. |
| 20:04.30 | blast007 | now imagine compiling that single 250KB C++ file on a Pentium 133MHz with 32MB of RAM ;) |
| 20:04.38 | blast007 | took me a week to compile bzfs + bzadmin |
| 20:05.33 | blast007 | and yeah, a modified client |
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| 20:19.16 | Supertanker | Well that was annoying. |
| 20:19.57 | Supertanker | So the server does use somewhat significant CPU usage with 100 clients. Now how many servers out there actually support 100+ clients? :P |
| 20:20.04 | Supertanker | (%50 on an AMD Athlon 64 3700+ single-core 2.2GHz) |
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| 20:40.12 | blast007 | Supertanker: how many shots? |
| 20:40.19 | blast007 | actually nvm |
| 20:40.37 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22250 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsHTTPAPI.cxx: |
| 20:40.37 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (style) Variables 'name', 'browserInfo' are assigned values that are never used |
| 20:40.37 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: (style) Unused variable: val |
| 20:40.48 | blast007 | but, yeah, 100 players on one server isn't something that really happens.. |
| 20:41.08 | blast007 | 30 is a more common upper threashold |
| 20:41.41 | blast007 | the riker cup gets a good number of *observers* on, though.. might be 50 to 70 observers watching the matches |
| 20:42.44 | Supertanker | Heh. What kind of bandwidth do observers use? Does the server get sent notifications about their positions? |
| 20:42.44 | apeman | but that's probably because BW proportional to players squared |
| 20:43.14 | Supertanker | I would imagine that observers only use bandwidth to receive other players' positions and calculate their shots, deaths, etc, but don't factor into the game itself. |
| 20:43.15 | blast007 | observers do not send any updates |
| 20:43.18 | blast007 | but they receive them |
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| 20:43.56 | Supertanker | And there's my shell. Finally. |
| 20:44.38 | blast007 | the number of sets of updates sent is [number of players] * [number of players - 1] + [number of players] * [number of observers] (at least, I think I did that right) |
| 20:45.04 | apeman | you know when a player spawns, sometimes they blink before really spawning? |
| 20:45.04 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22251 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsHTTPAPI.cxx: (performance) Possible inefficient checking for emptiness. |
| 20:45.16 | blast007 | eye drops can help with that |
| 20:45.17 | Supertanker | Still adds up pretty fast. |
| 20:45.43 | blast007 | yeah |
| 20:45.49 | apeman | is it because msgAlive arrives to you before you get their real update? |
| 20:45.52 | Supertanker | You have to say it in a more nasal and disinterested tone of voice. |
| 20:46.03 | blast007 | apeman: it's because our code is crap |
| 20:48.37 | CIA-109 | BZFlag: 03atupone * r22252 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsHTTPAPI.cxx: (performance) Prefer prefix ++/-- operators for non-primitive types. |
| 20:50.32 | JeffM | should make a highlight on rewrite |
| 20:58.34 | JeffM | hmm should probably see if all of tupones fixes work |
| 20:59.38 | blast007 | make sure there's no 'or' or 'and' ? ;) |
| 20:59.56 | JeffM | yep |
| 21:00.09 | JeffM | what will suck is when a lib uses it |
| 21:00.16 | JeffM | then we'll just have to upgrade to VC10 |
| 21:00.23 | JeffM | and pick up the suck |
| 21:00.51 | blast007 | that just seems pointless to use them... |
| 21:01.02 | JeffM | it is if you are going to mix them |
| 21:01.09 | JeffM | I can understand if you convert the entire codebase |
| 21:01.32 | apeman | what is /info or InfoEvent? |
| 21:01.37 | JeffM | well client builds, has more warnings ut it builds |
| 21:03.14 | JeffM | hold the flag does not |
| 21:03.26 | JeffM | should I fix it or just remove it |
| 21:03.45 | JeffM | mdskpr__, don't use strncasecmp |
| 21:04.11 | mdskpr__ | oh? |
| 21:04.18 | brad | ~lart mdskpr__ |
| 21:04.18 | ibot | keeps mailing mdskpr__ free America Online CDs until he drowns |
| 21:04.32 | mdskpr__ | why not Jeffm? |
| 21:04.49 | apeman | not portable |
| 21:07.27 | apeman | are bzdb changes sent as tcp (reliably) from server? |
| 21:08.46 | mdskpr__ | JeffM: I'll fix it, no need to revert. strcmp is okay i assume? |
| 21:09.41 | JeffM | mdskpr__, it does not exist on windows |
| 21:09.48 | JeffM | strcmp does something different |
| 21:09.54 | mdskpr__ | ik |
| 21:10.03 | mdskpr__ | i mean strcasecmp |
| 21:10.05 | JeffM | there should be a version of stricmp that works |
| 21:10.53 | JeffM | strcasecmp is macroed to stricmp in the api header |
| 21:10.57 | JeffM | so you shoudl be fine to use that |
| 21:14.35 | JeffM | mdskpr__, I wasn't going to revert the code, I was going to remove the plugin from the windows build |
| 21:14.42 | JeffM | nobody real runs servers on windows. |
| 21:21.27 | JeffM | Supertanker, there are rarely 100 people playing at one time so I doubt anyone has to deal with more then 20-30 per server |
| 21:31.34 | Supertanker | Figured so :) |
| 21:34.18 | JeffM | usualy we cap out about 60 players |
| 21:34.26 | JeffM | but its' winter so it'll get up to just over 100 |
| 21:34.36 | JeffM | the game's protocoll does not scale well |
| 21:34.45 | JeffM | it does no throttling or message combination |
| 21:35.53 | JeffM | and as for a rewrite of the bzflag server, the current project members can barely get a release with mods out, I doubt they could get a rewrite done |
| 21:36.08 | Supertanker | Yah :/ |
| 21:37.12 | JeffM | it would require big changes to the client too |
| 21:37.26 | JeffM | removing or combing all the logic into a shared simulation class |
| 21:58.49 | *** join/#bzflag Supertanker (~Supertank@unaffiliated/supertanker) |
| 22:40.19 | *** join/#bzflag sam (sam@poulet.zoy.org) |
| 22:58.37 | allejo | you maintains the ubuntu build of bz on the ubuntu software center? |
| 22:58.45 | allejo | s/you/who |
| 22:59.24 | *** join/#bzflag cp (ad4fe549@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.79.229.73) |
| 22:59.26 | mdskpr__ | Tim Riker i believe |
| 23:00.34 | blast007 | it's just pulled in from debian afaik |
| 23:01.36 | blast007 | http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/bzflag |
| 23:01.45 | blast007 | see on the right side |
| 23:02.23 | blast007 | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU |
| 23:05.48 | allejo | ahhh darn. no wonder it hasn't been updated to 2.4 |
| 23:07.13 | blast007 | they wouldn't update the existing distros anyway |
| 23:07.18 | blast007 | you'd wait for the next ubuntu release |
| 23:12.14 | allejo | ah that sucks |
| 23:20.14 | JeffM | we are working on getting the debian maintainer changed to someone who can get new versions added |
| 23:20.57 | JeffM | ubuntu does update more often then debian thankfuly |
| 23:22.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 23:23.17 | *** topic/#bzflag by JeffM -> http://my.BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || No, there is not a 2.4 for Debian/Ubuntu yet || The PLAN http://my.bzflag.org/w/Development_RoadMap |
| 23:27.35 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart2@c-98-198-227-61.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:27.35 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart2@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 23:27.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 23:55.45 | allejo | yay another maintainer :) |
| 23:56.09 | JeffM | well hopefuly it'll be the games team on the debian project |
| 23:56.10 | blast007 | where, where? |
| 23:56.12 | JeffM | not a single dude |
| 23:56.19 | JeffM | thats the goal |
| 23:58.01 | allejo | ohhhhhh that sounds like a great idea. that way we won't really on just one person |
| 23:58.10 | allejo | rely* |