IRC log for #bzflag on 20111024

15:40.57*** join/#bzflag ibot (~ibot@rikers.org)
15:40.58*** topic/#bzflag is http://my.BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || BZFlag 2.4.2 is in devlopment, please take a task || The PLAN http://my.bzflag.org/w/Development_RoadMap
15:40.58*** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ
16:37.05*** join/#bzflag JeffM (~JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm2501)
16:37.06*** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM] by ChanServ
16:53.41*** join/#bzflag kierra (~Jolie@unaffiliated/kierra)
17:01.59*** join/#bzflag meeba (~lamer@c-24-9-87-20.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
17:03.46*** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (~ZeeBaronR@c-69-254-167-86.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
17:05.02JeffMblast007,  didn't we change the userdb to only use BZIDs?
17:05.08blast007no
17:05.19blast007we talked about it
17:05.49blast007but pretty sure we didn't actually do it
17:06.09JeffMk
17:06.23JeffMcus that private list server guy has some whackass config
17:07.09JeffMhe's got a userDB with each users name and sets groups to everyone, verified, and local.global
17:07.17JeffMall automatic groups
17:07.54BulletCatcherThat's how it worked when I used userdb in 2.0.x.
17:07.55blast007I think that's how it works
17:08.09JeffMit adds a local user for every global user?
17:08.13BulletCatcherYes.
17:08.17JeffMthat is messed up and a huge security hole
17:08.19blast007it's not actually storing users
17:08.27blast007it's storing group memberships
17:08.28JeffMwhat is it doing?
17:08.45JeffMyeah, but if I change my name, and you change to my name, you get my groups
17:08.45blast007passdb was the one that stored the local "accounts"
17:08.50blast007yeah
17:08.57blast007I don't get why he's even using it
17:08.58JeffMhopefuly we removed that
17:09.02JeffMI told him to remove it
17:09.12blast007he's already running a forum for his private list ;)
17:09.13JeffMhe says it's not doing that add anymore
17:09.19JeffMso maybe we fixed that bug
17:09.31JeffMI asked him to check if his server is listing on his private list server
17:09.34JeffMmy guess is no
17:09.35blast007or we just broke it all to hell inadvertantly
17:09.48blast007not like it's a featue I actually tested ;)
17:09.58JeffMthat is not a feature :)
17:10.07blast007I mean the userdb
17:10.09JeffMif it was accidental then we fixed it accidentaly
17:10.10JeffMI know
17:10.28JeffMI may have changed it when I removed local auth
17:10.35JeffMand that got backported
17:10.36blast007yeah
17:10.54JeffMeven so in 2.0.x that userdb was not doing anything for authentication
17:12.00blast007right
17:12.10blast007our "DBs" are poorly named ;)
17:12.30JeffMyeah
17:12.33blast007userdb is a localgroupdb, groupdb is a permissiondb, and the passdb was a localuserdb
17:13.01BulletCatcherThat is consistent with my understanding.
17:13.03*** join/#bzflag fuz_ (nobody@vau75-10-88-164-23-88.fbx.proxad.net)
17:13.12JeffMuserdb is suposed to be perms per user, group db is perms per group, passdb is dead
17:13.37JeffMbut I guess userdb is groups per user
17:13.43JeffMdo we even need userdb anymore?
17:13.47blast007no
17:14.03blast007some servers MAY use it yet
17:14.05blast007but meh
17:14.06JeffMwe could for a server to set a single user as admin with out doing a global group
17:14.13JeffMif they don't trust us
17:14.24JeffMI'd be fine with not supporting that case
17:14.31blast007plugins can assign permissions if they want local "groups"
17:14.34JeffMyeah
17:14.41JeffMheck they can do local auth with a plug-in
17:14.45blast007I've done that for maps I hosted to give the author extra permissions
17:15.03JeffMthrow that plug-in in the source tree and remove userdb
17:15.27blast007I'd have to make my plugin a bit better - for me, it just supported a single user
17:15.33blast007and couldn't remove permissions
17:15.37JeffMheh
17:15.48JeffMwell throw it in there and let someone else extend it :)
17:15.58blast007(since the API for the group stuff didn't list the !PERM stuff, iirc)
17:16.15JeffMwell that can be fixed
17:16.23blast007I'm sure I could whip up a plugin with a real config file
17:16.51JeffMlocal auth was such a bad idea
17:17.15blast007well, wasn't that added before we even had global?
17:17.39blast007back in the days when the list was a C/C++ app?  :)
17:17.45JeffMit was added because I was mad Tim wasn't finished with global and was stuck on "Karma"
17:17.56JeffMI should have just finished global the right way :)
17:17.57blast007hehe
17:18.27JeffMhell, I even hosted the forums at my house then
17:19.01JeffMoh well, hindsight and all that
17:21.37blast007I'm hoping to start winding m.b.o down soon
17:21.47JeffMcool
17:21.50blast007working on splitting the stats site out
17:22.15blast007then I'll move the forum and list to the new server
17:22.28blast007and then 2.0 servers will be off the list unless they feel like restarting
17:22.32JeffMbuy split you mean "remove"?
17:22.40JeffMhow many 2.0's are there?
17:22.44blast00733
17:22.52JeffMhow many players do they have?
17:23.01blast007there was maybe 11 on this morning
17:23.06blast007some of which were observer bots
17:23.46CIA-111BZFlag: 03Deliot 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8097 10/Private_List_Server: /* Directions */
17:24.03JeffMyeah looks like there are 2 servers with real players that are still on 2.0
17:24.05blast007looks like 17 right now
17:24.11blast00717 players
17:25.17JeffMabout 25% of all players
17:26.17blast007the fact that it's that much of the population is sad ;)
17:26.38JeffMyep
17:26.46JeffM55 people playing now
17:26.53blast007so - are we still thinking it's worth the effort to revive BZFlag?
17:27.04JeffM8 total servers
17:27.16JeffMpersonaly I don't think it's worth it
17:27.37JeffMtho there would be fewer people to piss off :)
17:27.45blast007:)
17:28.16JeffMstill too many conotations for what it "should do" if there are big changes
17:28.24CIA-111BZFlag: 03Deliot 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8098 10/Private_List_Server:
17:28.42JeffMI've been writing up all the ideas we had here on my wiki
17:28.52JeffMI really like the server layout that came out of it
17:29.21JeffMwould be very flexable and could be set up to have lots of redundancies
17:29.43JeffMcould even automaticly pick the physical instance location based on pings
17:30.04blast007yeah
17:30.21CIA-111BZFlag: 03Deliot 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8099 10/Private_List_Server:
17:30.41JeffMI've also speced out auth that would have multiple servers for doing logins to spread the load/point of failure
17:31.47JeffMI still think it would only take about 3-4 months for 3-4 people to get something going that would be playable
17:32.05JeffMand with automatic updates it would be very easy to trickle out features
17:32.11JeffMno need for full blown releases
17:32.12blast007yeah
17:35.00*** join/#bzflag sirquine (~quine@c-67-176-80-111.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
17:39.46JeffMI haven't heard anyone say it's a bad idea
17:39.54JeffMjust that some people were not interested in it
19:28.21*** join/#bzflag nielsle_ (~nielsle@3239059-cl69.boa.fiberby.dk)
19:40.33*** join/#bzflag KTL (~KTL@213.219.154.8.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net)
19:41.45JeffMwonder if that guy got his private list to work
19:49.16*** join/#bzflag Tuxist (~quassel@dyndsl-080-228-196-061.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
20:08.32*** join/#bzflag mdskpr_ (~mdskpr@108.25.131.122)
21:04.25*** join/#bzflag kongr45gpen (~alezakos@unaffiliated/alezakos)
21:04.41*** part/#bzflag kongr45gpen (~alezakos@unaffiliated/alezakos)
21:45.07*** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@gondolin.pimpi.org)
21:55.36*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535)
22:10.24*** join/#bzflag PilouBip (~pilou_coi@did75-2-81-57-106-132.fbx.proxad.net)
22:17.05*** part/#bzflag PilouBip (~pilou_coi@did75-2-81-57-106-132.fbx.proxad.net)
23:18.14Gabe_G23http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItIcvbacUWo

Generated by irclog2html.pl Modified by Tim Riker to work with infobot.