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| 01:37.30 | mdskpr_ | JeffM: if a GM flag is dropped, should the player lose his lock? |
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| 03:27.35 | AAA_awright | When you're killed you do |
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| 10:57.25 | benfish | I don't appear to be able to get rid of that "File transfer terminated with error from libcurl 28" error, players can't auth. It isn't the firewall, and everything referenced in the server log pings just fine from my end. |
| 11:02.53 | blast007 | is the server running right now? what is the -publicaddr setting? |
| 11:03.12 | blast007 | benfish: ^ |
| 11:04.57 | benfish | blast007: Running right now, yes. -publickey setting is: -publicaddr 02.bztank.net:5155 |
| 11:05.10 | benfish | It has worked fine that way for.. years. |
| 11:05.27 | blast007 | okay, I'm able to connect to that from the list server |
| 11:06.29 | blast007 | hmm, weird |
| 11:08.06 | benfish | Indeed. I have even tried compiling again (just in case), same problem. |
| 11:09.15 | blast007 | I do see the request coming through on the server, but it finishes after auth fails on the game server |
| 11:09.40 | blast007 | so somewhere the web script is hanging for a while, thus not responding soon enough |
| 11:10.19 | blast007 | our fsockopen is set to wait only 5 seconds for a connection |
| 11:13.19 | benfish | I'm guessing there's nothing that I can do about any of this? |
| 11:14.01 | benfish | Odd that it suddenly started happening, though - I don't remember changing anything. |
| 11:14.37 | blast007 | hard to say |
| 11:14.47 | blast007 | the debug output from the list server isn't real helpful |
| 11:15.02 | blast007 | I'll have to dig into it more after work today |
| 11:17.49 | benfish | Ok, thank you. Is there anything I can do in the meantime, or is this all the listserv? |
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| 14:08.15 | blast007 | benfish: no idea yet |
| 14:08.24 | blast007 | since I'm not sure why it's happening |
| 14:51.45 | joevano | ok I'm lazy, anyone know which version the geno flag was introduced in? |
| 14:58.01 | blast007 | well, let's put it this way.. it was there before our CVS repo started |
| 14:58.25 | BulletCatcher | In the ChangeLog, it is first mentioned in 1.10.2. |
| 14:58.26 | BulletCatcher | I am going to guess that it appeared in 1.10.0 "Break the world". |
| 14:58.26 | blast007 | so it's been there since before March 5th, 2000 |
| 14:59.01 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: it was in there in the 1.5 versions |
| 14:59.04 | joevano | yep... first reference on the wiki was a fix for 1.10.6 |
| 14:59.32 | blast007 | well, I think it was in 1.5 |
| 14:59.45 | joevano | oh... even better. thanks guys don't have the repo on my work machine |
| 14:59.48 | blast007 | it was at least in 1.7c release 2, which is what the |
| 15:00.03 | blast007 | what the first open source version was* |
| 15:00.46 | blast007 | so, it begs the question of who actually added it :) |
| 15:01.11 | blast007 | it was added while it was still closed source |
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| 15:02.50 | BulletCatcher | The oldest version on SourceForge is 1.7c. |
| 15:02.51 | BulletCatcher | Where can we find older versions? |
| 15:03.10 | brad | win 21 |
| 15:03.14 | brad | fail'd |
| 15:03.46 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: the releases might have older versions |
| 15:04.24 | blast007 | hmm, guess not |
| 15:04.31 | BulletCatcher | The "old bzflag src.rpm" goes back to 1.7e0. |
| 15:04.39 | blast007 | but in any case, 1.7c was the *first* open source release |
| 15:04.47 | blast007 | so there isn't public source for any older versions |
| 15:04.51 | BulletCatcher | ok |
| 15:04.56 | blast007 | and genocide is in 1.7c |
| 15:05.28 | blast007 | so it looks like Sky King's poing about geno being against the wishes of Chris is null, since it was open-sourced with genocide already there |
| 15:05.48 | joevano | yep, I am preparing a response |
| 15:05.59 | blast007 | but then again, I'm not sure who had copyright at that point |
| 15:06.12 | blast007 | so it may have been Tim that had copyright at that time |
| 15:07.02 | joevano | I've kept silent on purpose, but it's time for a response because so much of his post is based on misconceptions of how the project is run |
| 15:07.38 | joevano | i don't disagree with all of his points but we do need to get the misconceptions cleared up |
| 15:07.44 | blast007 | yeah |
| 15:09.16 | BulletCatcher | FWIW, in 1.7c playing.cxx says "Copyright 1993-1999, Chris Schoeneman". |
| 15:09.55 | BulletCatcher | That file is dated 11 December 1999. |
| 15:10.52 | BulletCatcher | And it definitely supports the Genocide flag. |
| 15:11.59 | blast007 | yep |
| 15:15.30 | BulletCatcher | 1.7c fails to compile because it can't find iostream.h. |
| 15:15.32 | BulletCatcher | I'm not going to submit a bug report. |
| 15:15.36 | blast007 | ;) |
| 15:16.09 | blast007 | 1.7c likely build best on IRIX anyway |
| 15:16.32 | BulletCatcher | I could try that. But I won't. |
| 15:16.47 | blast007 | hehe |
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| 15:40.22 | WarPig | New computer, Windows 7 64bit. 1fps in bzflag 2.4.0. :( ...help... |
| 15:41.41 | blast007 | did you install new video drivers? |
| 15:41.51 | blast007 | likely doesn't have OpenGL acceleration |
| 15:41.57 | WarPig | latest/greatest from Nvidia. |
| 15:42.42 | WarPig | GeForce GT 520 |
| 15:43.20 | WarPig | Maybe I should put my old 8600GTS in this machine. |
| 15:50.18 | joevano | WarPig: 1fps may help your game ;-) |
| 15:50.40 | WarPig | blast007: Any ideas what to do? (Other than run linux, I mean. This is a work PC and I need to run Windows.) |
| 15:51.05 | WarPig | Toss out Windows 7 64bit, go back to XP? |
| 15:51.11 | blast007 | what does it show for a graphics driver when you start the game? |
| 15:51.48 | WarPig | Says "GDI Generic" |
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| 15:53.43 | WarPig | gah - IRC client crashed. |
| 15:53.44 | joevano | welcome back... it's not seeing OpenGL |
| 15:55.29 | blast007 | WarPig: verify that you are running the game in 32-bit color (check in Options > Graphics Settings > whatever that menu is called.. video format maybe) |
| 15:56.43 | WarPig | 1680x1050 @32bits |
| 15:57.35 | joevano | Is this the driver you have? http://www.nvidia.com/object/win7-winvista-64bit-280.26-whql-driver.html |
| 15:58.32 | blast007 | WarPig: well, it's not seeing any OpenGL acceleration |
| 15:58.46 | blast007 | GDI Generic == software rendering |
| 15:59.58 | WarPig | joevano: 8.17.12.6742 is the driver version. 2/28/2011 vintage, per Device Manager. |
| 16:01.25 | blast007 | check in the nVidia control panel instead |
| 16:01.51 | blast007 | you'll get the version that corresponds with nVidia's versioning numbers, think it's up in the help menu somewhere |
| 16:01.59 | blast007 | don't have an nVidia system here to check |
| 16:02.18 | joevano | yeah, me either |
| 16:02.27 | WarPig | 267.42 |
| 16:02.36 | WarPig | I'll download the new one. |
| 16:02.41 | blast007 | ;) |
| 16:06.53 | WarPig | Nice. 60fps now. You guys are the best. GROUP HUG! |
| 16:08.14 | WarPig | In 2.0x I was getting crazy fps numbers, in the 2-300 range. Now, in 2.4x I get 30 with Energy Saver and 60 without. Any reason for that? |
| 16:09.19 | brad | vsync enabled?? |
| 16:09.22 | joevano | iirc we limited it because high framerates messed with the physics model... but I may be wrong |
| 16:09.29 | brad | 60 is a nice limit though |
| 16:10.18 | WarPig | 60 works for me. Thanks again guys. |
| 16:13.19 | blast007 | 60 would be vsync like brad said |
| 16:18.15 | WarPig | How do I change vsync? |
| 16:19.51 | blast007 | in your video driver control panel |
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| 16:22.41 | WarPig | Yup that was it. Forced vsync off, now getting ~130fps |
| 16:23.45 | blast007 | oh, and turn up any settings in your graphics settings to the max (leave dithering off, shadows/lighting whatever you desire.. and energy saver off) |
| 16:23.57 | blast007 | starting off with software rendering might have set some of them to lower defaults |
| 16:45.58 | WarPig | All settings back to 'AWESOME'. Thanks. :) |
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| 17:19.48 | JeffM | BulletCatcher, so we don't store enough info to see how many people play BZ in a day? |
| 17:20.57 | blast007 | sorta |
| 17:21.06 | blast007 | we could see how many authenticate |
| 17:21.24 | JeffM | can we see how many the game servers ask for tokens/groups for? |
| 17:21.38 | JeffM | check the add not the auth |
| 17:21.46 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:21.52 | JeffM | or is that a post? |
| 17:21.54 | JeffM | not a get |
| 17:22.06 | blast007 | we log the info |
| 17:22.09 | JeffM | ok |
| 17:22.15 | JeffM | yeah I'd like a ballpark on that |
| 17:22.23 | JeffM | are we doing this for 20 people or 200 |
| 17:22.43 | blast007 | do you just want people who had valid tokens? |
| 17:23.09 | JeffM | what I really want to know is how many unique people play a week |
| 17:23.14 | JeffM | reged or unreged |
| 17:23.23 | JeffM | so whatever you can get me that is close to that |
| 17:23.39 | blast007 | reged I can get |
| 17:23.44 | blast007 | unreged is a bit harder to track |
| 17:23.46 | JeffM | ok that's a start |
| 17:23.53 | JeffM | start with what we can get |
| 17:24.03 | JeffM | reged will give me a min number |
| 17:24.14 | blast007 | the game server would ask the list if a user is registered though, right? |
| 17:24.25 | blast007 | if so, we could tweak the code to write out info about that if it doesn't already |
| 17:24.30 | JeffM | I belive the game server asks for EVERY player |
| 17:24.32 | JeffM | reged or unreged |
| 17:24.33 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:24.37 | JeffM | that's how it does the - |
| 17:24.45 | JeffM | and knows the name is reged |
| 17:24.51 | JeffM | so we should be able to track it all |
| 17:24.51 | blast007 | I'll dig into that after work and see what I can get |
| 17:24.55 | JeffM | cool |
| 17:24.58 | JeffM | thanks |
| 17:26.53 | JeffM | do we have any kind of hit stats for the mainpage? |
| 17:27.03 | JeffM | google analitics or anything? |
| 17:27.14 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:27.14 | JeffM | I'm curious how people find BZ as well |
| 17:28.41 | blast007 | heh, looks like we've had 8,648 visits in the last 30 days |
| 17:28.50 | JeffM | that's pretty good |
| 17:29.15 | JeffM | if that translates to 20 players a month I will be sad |
| 17:29.30 | blast007 | 42.83% is referring sites, 39.4% is search engines, 17.77% is direct traffic |
| 17:29.41 | JeffM | wonder what they search for |
| 17:29.41 | blast007 | average time on site is 43 seconds ;) |
| 17:29.45 | JeffM | heh |
| 17:29.57 | JeffM | wonder how many of those people only try the game once. |
| 17:30.21 | blast007 | heh, the top 6 search term is "bz flags" |
| 17:30.29 | JeffM | interesting |
| 17:30.30 | blast007 | top 4 is "bzflags" |
| 17:30.46 | blast007 | top 10 all mention bzflag in some form |
| 17:30.54 | JeffM | very interesting |
| 17:30.57 | blast007 | some with "download" in there too |
| 17:31.13 | JeffM | so they hear about it somewhere else that dosn't have a link |
| 17:31.23 | blast007 | when they search for "bzflag download", they average 1:23 on the site |
| 17:31.52 | JeffM | do you have the same stats for before 2.4 shipped? |
| 17:33.28 | blast007 | doesn't look much different at first glance |
| 17:33.35 | JeffM | ok that's good then |
| 17:33.38 | blast007 | at least for visits |
| 17:34.02 | JeffM | I was curious if the download search was mostly because of users using old clients and seeing mention of new clients in game/forums |
| 17:35.47 | blast007 | the number of visits have been pretty consistent for a while now |
| 17:35.54 | JeffM | so that means the bzflag name is worth about 10$ in advertising, not too bad |
| 17:35.59 | blast007 | it was a bit higher a year ago |
| 17:36.00 | JeffM | more then I expected. |
| 17:36.25 | JeffM | so that just tells me that what is going down is retention rate |
| 17:37.05 | blast007 | also means that the main site should get a revamp since a LOT of people are hitting it :) |
| 17:37.25 | JeffM | possibly |
| 17:37.43 | blast007 | 116k visits in the last 365 days, and 152k the 365 days before that |
| 17:37.44 | JeffM | tho if there is no game for them to use a pretty site is pointless |
| 17:37.54 | JeffM | do we know if they are uniques? |
| 17:38.15 | blast007 | ~82.49% is "new visits" |
| 17:38.15 | ibot | okay, blast007 |
| 17:38.18 | blast007 | blah |
| 17:38.28 | blast007 | ~forget 82.49% |
| 17:38.28 | ibot | blast007: i forgot 82.49% |
| 17:38.36 | JeffM | would it be any help to hook up gogole analitics to anything? |
| 17:38.49 | blast007 | besides the main site, you mean? |
| 17:38.56 | JeffM | or any site |
| 17:39.05 | blast007 | this is all from google analytics |
| 17:39.21 | JeffM | then yes there was some benifit to hooking it up |
| 17:39.23 | JeffM | :) |
| 17:39.26 | blast007 | though it's not on an account I have control over - it's on Winny's account, and he gave me access to it |
| 17:39.32 | JeffM | ahh |
| 17:39.35 | JeffM | still useful info |
| 17:39.38 | blast007 | yep |
| 17:40.01 | blast007 | I should move it over to an account that I (or we) *do* have full control over :) |
| 17:41.13 | JeffM | yeah I'd really like to know how many people we are keeping |
| 17:41.27 | JeffM | that'll tell me how many people we would anger with various moves. |
| 17:42.17 | JeffM | we have 2 real choices, make major changes to his project (the way it runs) and make a bunch of people be mad that "it was fine untill the runined it forever" |
| 17:42.54 | JeffM | or break off from TimRiker and start afresh knowing we only have lost 40 inital players and leg bzflag have it's honorable retirement. |
| 17:45.27 | blast007 | 60% of the people that hit our screenshots page leave the site right there ;) |
| 17:45.39 | blast007 | or at least, leave bzflag.org |
| 17:45.45 | blast007 | *maybe* they're hitting the download link |
| 17:45.58 | JeffM | yeah that makes sense |
| 17:46.08 | blast007 | might be a good idea to put more informational pages on the main site |
| 17:46.11 | blast007 | and even download pages |
| 17:46.16 | blast007 | so we can track stuff better |
| 17:46.22 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:46.30 | JeffM | or make the game look better |
| 17:47.10 | JeffM | can you tell how many people enlarge the screenshots? |
| 17:47.43 | blast007 | not from google anayltics, as the JS wouldn't run on the images ;) |
| 17:47.55 | JeffM | k |
| 17:48.03 | blast007 | would have to dig into server logs |
| 17:50.06 | JeffM | it would not suprize me that people say "bleh" when they see that screenshots page |
| 17:51.11 | blast007 | yeah, we should put that cat higher on the page |
| 17:51.17 | blast007 | that'll draw them in |
| 17:51.24 | BulletCatcher | It is really hard for a couple of screenshots to convey what it is like to actually play a game. |
| 17:51.28 | JeffM | it is super professional |
| 17:51.38 | JeffM | BulletCatcher, yep |
| 17:51.48 | JeffM | but that dosn't make people not juduge it by them |
| 17:51.53 | JeffM | first impressions etc.. |
| 17:51.58 | blast007 | also like how we have bzadmin running "on a phone" when it's really just a phone SSH'ed to a bsd/linux system |
| 17:52.19 | JeffM | yeah, all part of the "Let people do whatever they want" |
| 17:52.26 | brad | still a cool pic:P |
| 17:52.33 | JeffM | for a specific group |
| 17:52.35 | JeffM | not new players |
| 17:52.43 | JeffM | tha'ts a forum post at the most |
| 17:52.50 | blast007 | if we want it running on a mobile device, I'll run it on my Nokia N800 which can *actually* run it |
| 17:53.00 | JeffM | please don't ;) |
| 17:53.20 | blast007 | bzadmin :P though I did the graphical client too.. that was so painful |
| 17:53.21 | brad | is that any relation to nokia n8? |
| 17:53.42 | blast007 | brad: N800 isn't a phone and it is linux based (debian based, specifically) |
| 17:53.46 | brad | oh |
| 17:53.56 | brad | that's a big no then :p |
| 17:54.02 | JeffM | it's ain internt tablet |
| 17:54.05 | blast007 | the N900 is a phone, and is also linux based |
| 18:00.21 | BulletCatcher | I think most of Sky King's suggestions can be implemented voluntarily within the current project. |
| 18:00.26 | BulletCatcher | Changing the server list sort algorithm is about the only code change that would be needed for full support. |
| 18:00.29 | BulletCatcher | A full explanation won't fit in the margins of this IRC channel, but I'll respond to the BZBB thread when I can. |
| 18:01.41 | JeffM | most? I think a few |
| 18:02.20 | JeffM | the part about the steering commite for game admins and stuff is a major change to how the community works |
| 18:02.38 | JeffM | you are talking about people giving up admin controll on the servers they own |
| 18:03.27 | JeffM | I do think most of his ideas are correct |
| 18:03.46 | JeffM | I just don't know if it's worth pushing it into the bzflag proejct to keep 40 people |
| 18:08.41 | BulletCatcher | Think of it as a league for novices, with leadership that would remain independent of the project. |
| 18:08.43 | BulletCatcher | Server owners would voluntarily run compliant maps. |
| 18:09.09 | JeffM | has nothing to do with map |
| 18:09.18 | JeffM | has to do with admins and the rules it runs under |
| 18:09.26 | JeffM | you think mofo will run under those rules? |
| 18:09.40 | JeffM | or do you want to put them at the bottom of the list for being nonconformist? |
| 18:10.23 | JeffM | would put them on a seperate tab :) |
| 18:10.53 | BulletCatcher | I think the project needs to find some way to help novices. |
| 18:10.54 | BulletCatcher | It may be as simple as making the server list work in their favor. |
| 18:13.11 | JeffM | I agree that's what it needs, but that is not the only thing it needs |
| 18:18.04 | JeffM | and it's that "maybe as simple as" attiude that I think he's talking about with his first item. have a plan over guessing |
| 18:18.09 | JeffM | brb |
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| 18:38.26 | joevano | JeffM: ok, you beat me in timing but I beat you in volume ;-) |
| 18:38.41 | JeffM | is that better? |
| 18:40.17 | joevano | hard to say... |
| 18:41.20 | JeffM | goes to lunch |
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| 20:08.39 | JeffM | joevano, I'd actualy be for having official servers run by an admin staff |
| 20:08.45 | JeffM | treat it like freenode |
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| 21:15.01 | joevano | JeffM: but that is not our current structure and would require a change... I was just commenting on the current status |
| 21:15.12 | JeffM | ahh |
| 21:15.23 | JeffM | I thought you were commenting on his sugestions |
| 21:15.38 | JeffM | since he's saying the current state does not work |
| 21:16.51 | joevano | the post was moved and the title changed which changed the perception of his original post somewhat |
| 21:17.00 | JeffM | ahh |
| 21:17.44 | JeffM | I thought his post was pretty explanitory |
| 21:18.17 | joevano | i modified my post a little but I think what I said was needed as a response to what their currently is and the difficulties that are presented |
| 21:18.48 | joevano | most people just don't understand our position and what we can and will do presently |
| 21:36.36 | JeffM | most people don't undertand a lot about development and design |
| 21:39.38 | CIA-111 | BZFlag: 0370.190.212.232 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r8005 10/Bz_ePlayerPausedEvent: /* Data */ playerID, not player |
| 22:05.16 | *** join/#bzflag Anxuiz (~Anxuiz@unaffiliated/anxuiz) |
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