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| 19:44.03 | benfish | What would cause the following? "File transfer terminated with error from libcurl 28 : Operation too slow. Less than 1024 bytes/sec transfered the last 10 seconds" |
| 20:04.35 | blast007 | benfish: generally I think that occurs when the list server cannot reach your server |
| 20:05.23 | blast007 | your server starts an HTTP communication with the list server saying "add me!" and the list server then tries to connect back to your server using the given public address during that same request |
| 20:06.10 | blast007 | so if it takes too long (as in, the list can't reach your server, so it has to wait for a timeout), then the game server will probably time out first, thus the message |
| 20:15.56 | benfish | blast007: understood, thank you. |
| 20:32.32 | Cobra_Fast | what would be the maximum resolution for official textures (packed with the client)? |
| 20:32.48 | Cobra_Fast | for the sake of reworking some of them. |
| 20:36.51 | JeffM | I belive we clamp them to 512 |
| 20:38.11 | Cobra_Fast | could that be changed for 2.4.2? |
| 20:38.21 | Cobra_Fast | or would it break compatibility |
| 20:38.27 | JeffM | some older cards don't like them if they get too big |
| 20:38.45 | JeffM | we'd have to do a better job at detecting how much video ram there |
| 20:38.46 | JeffM | is |
| 20:38.53 | JeffM | how big did you want to go? |
| 20:39.17 | Cobra_Fast | i didnt plan on going any big, thats why i asked |
| 20:39.51 | Cobra_Fast | if larger resolutions break stuff, thats a totally legit reason |
| 20:40.23 | JeffM | it's not about "breaking" |
| 20:40.36 | JeffM | we could make any resoultion work |
| 20:40.51 | Cobra_Fast | i would appreciate that |
| 20:40.57 | JeffM | so would I |
| 20:41.05 | JeffM | but that isn't going to magicaly make it happen :) |
| 20:41.30 | Cobra_Fast | i know how it works, but I dont really want to start messing with the code |
| 20:41.48 | JeffM | really? you know how to get the ammount of free texture ram from openGL? |
| 20:42.05 | Cobra_Fast | at least, i could read into that topic |
| 20:42.14 | JeffM | no.. cus there is no API for it |
| 20:42.36 | Cobra_Fast | other games do it too though |
| 20:42.38 | JeffM | it is a much more complex topic then just fitting stuff in |
| 20:42.43 | JeffM | somewhat |
| 20:42.47 | JeffM | directX can do it |
| 20:43.00 | JeffM | others just load untill they detect slowness then start unloading |
| 20:43.20 | JeffM | it all depends on what your specific needs are |
| 20:43.21 | Cobra_Fast | there even are gram monitoring tools |
| 20:43.32 | JeffM | gram? |
| 20:43.39 | Cobra_Fast | graphics ram |
| 20:43.51 | JeffM | cross platform? ;) |
| 20:44.07 | Cobra_Fast | well, probably not |
| 20:44.18 | JeffM | there are lots of card/platform specific ways to get the info |
| 20:44.32 | JeffM | but GL itself dosn't really have much for it (unless it's in GL 2+) |
| 20:45.19 | Cobra_Fast | we can get the graphics card model in use though, cant we? |
| 20:45.31 | JeffM | maybe |
| 20:45.36 | Cobra_Fast | its whats being displayed in the console at startup |
| 20:45.38 | JeffM | if they have the correct drivers installed |
| 20:45.54 | Cobra_Fast | so we could drive a simple text based list of models and their capacity |
| 20:46.00 | JeffM | no |
| 20:46.04 | JeffM | that is not a clean road |
| 20:46.11 | Cobra_Fast | it would work though |
| 20:46.22 | JeffM | you would not be able to get a list good enough |
| 20:46.36 | JeffM | and how often is bzflag updated compared to how often cards come out? |
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| 20:47.45 | JeffM | better would be to do robust loading and unloading of textures, have a default memory space in the config and let users set it |
| 20:48.16 | JeffM | you'd need to do a bit more cleanup of the drawing code to do it right |
| 20:48.37 | JeffM | or desuport old hardware and require 256megs+ |
| 20:48.42 | JeffM | like most modern games do |
| 20:49.48 | Cobra_Fast | let the user choose a texture resolution profile would work as well IMO |
| 20:50.01 | JeffM | we would have to have a sane default |
| 20:50.05 | Cobra_Fast | lowest |
| 20:50.18 | JeffM | but yes that is the simplesest way of doing something in our current code |
| 20:50.50 | JeffM | doubt it would happen for 2.4.2 |
| 20:51.09 | JeffM | getting bugs fixed is like pullin teeth unless someone is there to hound people |
| 20:51.22 | Cobra_Fast | this isnt a bug, is it? |
| 20:51.27 | JeffM | nope |
| 20:51.46 | JeffM | if we can't get bugs fixed, how are we going to get new features? |
| 20:52.19 | Cobra_Fast | fixing bugs is the nasty work, putting in new stuff can be exciting as well |
| 20:52.42 | JeffM | yeah but that new stuff will have bugs too, if nobody fixes them all you do is have fun making the software worse |
| 20:53.24 | Cobra_Fast | i laughed but its true |
| 20:53.42 | JeffM | 2.4 didn't reinvigorate development, it just brought the core problem to the surface |
| 20:54.42 | Cobra_Fast | so the 2.4 line cant or wont bring any new exciting stuff? |
| 20:55.00 | JeffM | heh, I doubt 2.4.2 will ever ship |
| 20:55.14 | JeffM | 2.4 came out then everyone went right back to where they were before |
| 20:55.19 | Cobra_Fast | having higher texture resolutions would be a reason to ship it |
| 20:55.24 | JeffM | no |
| 20:55.44 | Cobra_Fast | so 2.4.2 is as stalled as 2.99 was |
| 20:55.47 | JeffM | wwyep |
| 20:55.52 | JeffM | look at the commit log |
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| 20:58.03 | Cobra_Fast | and we wont ship 2.4.2 just for the sake of new artwork? |
| 20:58.38 | JeffM | there is a list of what 2.4.2 should have in it. |
| 20:58.46 | JeffM | also artwork can be released seperately |
| 20:58.58 | JeffM | even used with out downloads with regards to map graphics |
| 20:59.13 | JeffM | what art did you want to update? the tank art? |
| 21:00.02 | Cobra_Fast | i was thinking about just a texture refresh |
| 21:00.08 | Cobra_Fast | nothing model wise |
| 21:00.09 | JeffM | what does that mean? |
| 21:00.21 | Cobra_Fast | for example a new grass texture |
| 21:00.33 | JeffM | yes I mean the tank texture, that and shots are the only things that arn't specified by the map |
| 21:00.49 | Cobra_Fast | yes, those textures i wanted to work on |
| 21:00.49 | JeffM | I think you can specify a ground mat |
| 21:01.23 | Cobra_Fast | sure, one could just texture everything around their map |
| 21:01.45 | Cobra_Fast | but thats not gonna work for simple maps |
| 21:01.51 | Cobra_Fast | that already exist. |
| 21:01.53 | JeffM | I'm not sure why we even ship map textures these days, let them be pulled from the image cache |
| 21:02.08 | JeffM | then we can update them with out a release |
| 21:02.42 | Cobra_Fast | thats a good idea |
| 21:03.55 | JeffM | make your textures and we'll see what they look like |
| 21:04.06 | Cobra_Fast | aye |
| 21:04.09 | JeffM | initaly they can be released as a zip file that people use to replace existing images |
| 21:04.30 | Cobra_Fast | yes i can just post that to the bb before committing |
| 21:04.34 | JeffM | having it in a release is a bit of the cart before the host |
| 21:04.57 | JeffM | yes I would ask you to get aprovoal before submiting major artwork changes |
| 21:05.03 | JeffM | since it is VERY subjective |
| 21:05.13 | Cobra_Fast | sure thing, will do :) |
| 21:05.38 | JeffM | what kinds of changes were you thinking about? and do you have other examples of your texture work in the past? |
| 21:06.26 | Cobra_Fast | i did some minor fixes for the textures in 2.99 |
| 21:06.39 | JeffM | like? |
| 21:07.00 | Cobra_Fast | removing nasty borders, scaling them properly and make the treads look good |
| 21:07.30 | JeffM | is that the level of tweaks you are thinking of making for the "refresh"? or do you want new art? |
| 21:08.01 | Cobra_Fast | im thinking of new art in sort of the same style |
| 21:08.14 | JeffM | would you draw this art yourself? |
| 21:08.26 | Cobra_Fast | i probably would |
| 21:08.36 | JeffM | do you have examples of your artwork? |
| 21:08.42 | Cobra_Fast | no |
| 21:08.50 | JeffM | k |
| 21:08.55 | JeffM | well lets see what you come up with then |
| 21:08.59 | Cobra_Fast | yep |
| 21:10.40 | JeffM | as for resolution 512 is still close to half the height of a common display, and you don't really get that close to objects with out a repeat happening in BZ |
| 21:10.52 | JeffM | so 1024 is a bit overkill for what we do |
| 21:11.19 | JeffM | base bottoms are the only real example of a texture that gets streched over a big face |
| 21:11.37 | JeffM | and personaly I think those shoudl be composited out of several compoents and animated |
| 21:11.57 | Cobra_Fast | now that would be overkill for bz |
| 21:12.32 | JeffM | not really, pybzflag had animated bases and they looked great |
| 21:15.39 | Cobra_Fast | well the basetops are at 512x512 already |
| 21:16.06 | JeffM | yep |
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