| 00:00.29 | CIA-14 | opencombat: 03JeffM2501 * r81 10/trunk/p2501_data/ (12 files in 3 dirs): simple avatar model |
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| 03:22.39 | CIA-14 | GPLib: 03Jeffm2501 * r448 10/trunk/Common/Host/Host.csproj: dir cleanup |
| 03:24.33 | CIA-14 | opencombat: 03JeffM2501 * r82 10/trunk/P2501/ (7 files in 6 dirs): directory cleanup |
| 03:26.30 | CIA-14 | opencombat: 03JeffM2501 * r83 10/trunk/P2501/GameLibs.sln: directory cleanup |
| 03:32.42 | mrapple | cual es opencomabt y porque esta aqui |
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| 03:35.13 | trepan | mrapple: jeff's replacement for bzflag |
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| 03:46.14 | mrapple | https://github.com/Xynilex |
| 03:46.35 | mrapple | that's something cool anxuiz is working on (fka Yassen) |
| 03:46.42 | delusional | He stole the hovertank from sargent hatred |
| 03:47.49 | mrapple | JeffM: not sure if this would be of any interest to you https://github.com/Anxuiz/AIS |
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| 04:44.29 | JeffM | mrapple: what is it? |
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| 11:04.33 | kierra | hi Cobra_Fast |
| 11:04.37 | kierra | 2 |
| 11:04.50 | kierra | one isn't enough :) |
| 11:07.39 | Cobra_Fast2 | yes, we are planning a clone invasion |
| 11:08.40 | kierra | gives directions to JeffM's bunker first |
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| 12:12.38 | blast007 | Cobra_Fast: begun, the clone wars have? |
| 12:32.44 | delusional | heh, good1 |
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| 14:31.19 | KTL | i'm building a ranking system with a genetic algorithm, seems to work quite nice :) |
| 14:31.40 | KTL | is doing the output now, the basics seems fine |
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| 15:47.03 | JeffM | wow... someone actualy bought a shirt |
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| 16:04.32 | KTL | lol |
| 16:05.23 | JeffM | at least that means the store works |
| 16:10.14 | blast007 | maybe a forum spammer got confused |
| 16:13.51 | JeffM | naw I'm pretty sure it was a cop |
| 16:13.54 | KTL | oki ... plugin works.... |
| 16:14.16 | JeffM | but I have to wait for his check to clear |
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| 16:15.49 | KTL | if someone registerd joins planet mofo 4120, the plugin will get his stats and display them, meanwhile recording new data of shot between registered players |
| 16:16.12 | KTL | and once in a while a crontab will calculate a new ranking |
| 16:18.03 | JeffM | can you write a plugin to stop the forum spam? |
| 16:18.18 | KTL | doesnt know about the api for the forum |
| 16:18.49 | KTL | maybe something for spamassassin ... |
| 16:19.15 | KTL | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:23.46 | JeffM | it's gettin pretty bad |
| 16:23.48 | KTL | JeffM, how does the spam look like? contains urls? |
| 16:24.05 | JeffM | yeah ether in sig or in body |
| 16:24.06 | KTL | contains ... the usual |
| 16:24.14 | KTL | viagra and others? |
| 16:24.20 | JeffM | all over the place |
| 16:24.57 | KTL | http://bbantispam.com/lr/ <- no idea if this is good |
| 16:25.19 | JeffM | point blast007 to it |
| 16:25.27 | JeffM | I am not an admin anymore and can't do squat :) |
| 16:25.31 | KTL | lol |
| 16:25.47 | KTL | blast007, http://bbantispam.com/lr/ ? |
| 16:25.50 | KTL | he will find |
| 16:29.23 | blast007 | that one looks pretty lame |
| 16:29.26 | blast007 | just blocks links |
| 16:29.34 | blast007 | blocks posted if there is links, I mean |
| 16:29.41 | blast007 | and was last updated in 2008 |
| 16:29.47 | blast007 | so probably not even compatible |
| 16:30.00 | blast007 | there are better tools for spam blocking |
| 16:30.21 | blast007 | might end up having to integrate one of them when I update phpbb |
| 16:30.47 | JeffM | or kill the forums and open new ones on a new URL ;) |
| 16:30.57 | KTL | but euhm captchas ... |
| 16:31.08 | KTL | it are bots the bzflag forum has trouble with right? |
| 16:31.18 | blast007 | KTL: bots or humans |
| 16:31.30 | blast007 | both of which can read captchas |
| 16:31.41 | JeffM | they have been broken a long while ago |
| 16:31.44 | KTL | (then the captcha isnt doen well) |
| 16:32.04 | blast007 | captchas are doomed to fail |
| 16:32.50 | KTL | advanced IP tools Pack |
| 16:32.51 | JeffM | it's getting to the point where it's cheaper to just pay people to break them |
| 16:33.03 | JeffM | proving someone is human dosn't mean they won't spam |
| 16:33.08 | KTL | Visual Confirmation for Guests |
| 16:33.14 | KTL | Stop Advertisements bots |
| 16:33.22 | blast007 | KTL: we don't have guest posting, so that isn't going to help |
| 16:33.33 | blast007 | phpBB's ban system is ultra suckage too |
| 16:33.49 | KTL | well euhm ... something deadly simple would be too ... |
| 16:33.58 | KTL | the inputfield ... rename it |
| 16:33.59 | JeffM | if it wasn't teid to auth what forums system would you use blast007 ? |
| 16:34.13 | KTL | and the old inputfield, make it into a invisible bot-detector |
| 16:34.21 | KTL | (ok sorry again it is only against bots) |
| 16:34.30 | blast007 | I'd would still consider using phpBB, but with extra code included that checked a proper ban system :P |
| 16:34.50 | blast007 | like, one that can actually use wildcards in host bans |
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| 16:35.54 | blast007 | or I'd write a dead simple one that tied into everything else a bit more directly |
| 16:36.25 | blast007 | we wouldn't need most of phpBB's features if we had a proper player portal |
| 16:36.29 | KTL | isnt there a filter that uses regular expressions? |
| 16:37.15 | KTL | (the basic idea) |
| 16:37.25 | blast007 | KTL: that's a vague question |
| 16:37.42 | KTL | well, if the msg matches .*viagra.* then reject |
| 16:37.54 | KTL | then make a custom list of words you dont want |
| 16:37.59 | blast007 | we already do |
| 16:38.03 | blast007 | they get around it |
| 16:38.27 | blast007 | not hard to swap two letters around |
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| 16:39.30 | KTL | so euhm the same trick that spamassassin uses then the bayesian way |
| 16:40.00 | blast007 | or we could just, like, have a custom registration system |
| 16:40.01 | KTL | ok my idea, convert each new message into a mail, and check it with spamassassin |
| 16:40.07 | blast007 | .. |
| 16:40.17 | JeffM | wrote one of those ;) |
| 16:40.18 | KTL | ah ok |
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| 16:41.17 | KTL | blast007, how is the custom registration system going to keep out human spammers? |
| 16:41.32 | JeffM | in mine you have to register using the game client |
| 16:41.33 | blast007 | it would be less of a target |
| 16:42.10 | blast007 | and we could define our own rules for how new users can post |
| 16:42.23 | blast007 | like, say, no profile info until 5 posts |
| 16:42.42 | blast007 | or hey, a karma system!! |
| 16:42.44 | blast007 | ducks |
| 16:42.46 | JeffM | heh |
| 16:44.37 | KTL | well ... what is the current procedure about spam? how many mouseclicks does the moderator need? |
| 16:44.55 | JeffM | usualy you just go delete the user |
| 16:45.00 | JeffM | it's pretty easy |
| 16:45.30 | blast007 | except for the bug/issue right now where it doesn't redirect properly |
| 16:46.01 | KTL | are the ip's of the spammers kept? |
| 16:46.03 | blast007 | (redirects back to the index instead of the ACP when you try to auth for the ACP) |
| 16:46.12 | blast007 | KTL: no |
| 16:46.26 | blast007 | they're in the account, and when you delete that, they go away too |
| 16:46.33 | blast007 | not that it matters really |
| 16:46.40 | KTL | ? |
| 16:46.41 | blast007 | it's mostly proxies |
| 16:47.01 | KTL | the list of proxies they know isnt infinite too i guess? |
| 16:47.15 | JeffM | but large and dynamic |
| 16:47.20 | KTL | tor ? |
| 16:47.23 | blast007 | yeah, it's less than 4 billion |
| 16:47.38 | KTL | :) |
| 16:49.28 | KTL | could there be a link between the ip's from spam mail and the ip's from spambots? |
| 16:49.50 | KTL | because you could to a dnsbl check against their ip's |
| 16:50.42 | blast007 | what makes you think we don't already check against dnsbl's? |
| 16:51.04 | KTL | oki:) |
| 16:51.08 | blast007 | just kinda hard to make sure they actually *work*, since, like, I'm not a spammer with a botnet ;) |
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| 16:51.40 | blast007 | phpBB had questionable logic in their code for that as well |
| 16:52.04 | blast007 | since it looked like the IP/domain had to be in ALL of the DNSBL's that it had set for it to be blocked, not just ONE of them :) |
| 16:52.29 | KTL | hehe |
| 16:52.45 | blast007 | and they have to be hard coded right now |
| 16:52.51 | KTL | while the different lists from spamhaus are meant to contain different types of ip's |
| 16:52.56 | blast007 | there's a mod that lets you edit it via the ACP |
| 16:53.00 | blast007 | right |
| 16:53.19 | KTL | the phpbb runs linux right? |
| 16:53.28 | blast007 | freebsd |
| 16:53.58 | KTL | (the rblcheck command from the debian package rbldnsd is quite usefull) |
| 16:56.03 | blast007 | we've got 4 DNSBLs for IP based blocking during registration |
| 16:58.13 | blast007 | one blocks Tor (or other proxies), one blocks China, one is the spamcop database, and the other is the spamhaus SBL list (which is also checked when posting) |
| 17:19.28 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (~KTL@213.219.154.176.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 17:20.12 | KTL | just had a phone call, friend goes to work in ... _australia_ ... for google ... family might follow |
| 17:20.21 | KTL | (wth sydney...) |
| 17:24.31 | trepan | is your friend from Tasmania? |
| 17:24.52 | KTL | no, belgium |
| 17:25.01 | trepan | context is key :) |
| 17:25.20 | KTL | he is also human |
| 17:25.31 | JeffM | you can never be sure |
| 17:25.52 | KTL | and its australia and belgium on this planet |
| 17:26.03 | KTL | (which is earth!) |
| 17:26.14 | JeffM | no the planet is Terra |
| 17:26.18 | JeffM | earth is the word for dirt |
| 17:26.29 | JeffM | cus earthmovers work on any planet ;) |
| 17:26.42 | KTL | on the third planet of the solar system, the blue one |
| 17:26.55 | JeffM | some of the outer ones are blue |
| 17:27.02 | JeffM | and what is a "Planet" anyway |
| 17:27.30 | KTL | maybe referring to the wikipedia page would be more descriptive |
| 17:27.52 | JeffM | wikipedia is not a credable source |
| 17:28.08 | KTL | my genetic algo for ranking wont be either |
| 17:28.11 | JeffM | wonders if he should stick with VC9 or go to VC10 |
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| 17:38.14 | JeffM | looks like VC9 projects open fine in monodev so that's a good as reason as any to stay back |
| 17:43.15 | JeffM | it's odd to have a single build system that works cross platform for both IDE and command line builds, and dosn't realy need any special tools |
| 17:44.03 | blast007 | trying to think, but I also might have had some warnings/errors when installing OpenTK with VC#2010 Express |
| 17:44.22 | JeffM | ahh |
| 17:44.33 | JeffM | so vc9 it is :) |
| 17:44.40 | JeffM | VC10 has been a bit slow too |
| 17:44.41 | blast007 | can't recall now though.. been installing so much stuff recently on this system |
| 17:44.54 | JeffM | we moved our dev project to it |
| 17:44.59 | JeffM | and it is ... less then awesome |
| 17:45.57 | blast007 | I've still got '08 at home - guess I'll hold off thinking about an upgrade for now |
| 17:49.05 | trepan | "make" has been working as a multi-platform build system for me for decades ;) |
| 17:50.57 | JeffM | not for IDEs |
| 17:51.25 | JeffM | never seen an IDE work from make files |
| 17:51.54 | JeffM | tho I guess there are probably emacs macros that would do it all |
| 20:16.54 | mrapple | JeffM: AIS is some type of cool input system anxuiz is working on... ill have him tell ya more about it |
| 20:19.58 | JeffM | mrapple, input wrapers are pretty easy to do, and that's not managed code it just wraps up SDL |
| 20:20.51 | mrapple | well he had some cool plans for it, i dont know, i just heard about it >.< |
| 20:20.56 | JeffM | but good that they are working on stuff |
| 20:21.11 | JeffM | with managed code the event handling and callback stuff is prety easy |
| 20:21.22 | JeffM | so you just read in your events from an XML file |
| 20:22.30 | JeffM | how far are they in there game? |
| 20:22.47 | mrapple | Xynilex? I'm not sure, but Anxuiz said its vaporware now |
| 20:22.53 | mrapple | he's just focusing on AIS |
| 20:22.56 | JeffM | ahh |
| 20:23.07 | JeffM | it seemd to have a lot of dependencies |
| 20:23.35 | mrapple | xynilex? yeah |
| 20:23.45 | mrapple | it used ogre and a ton of other stuff i cant remember right now |
| 20:23.59 | mrapple | he had the foundation laid out, just not enough time |
| 20:24.15 | JeffM | I'd really like to have something simple to build, and having a single distributable for all OSs would be great |
| 20:24.54 | mrapple | well anxuiz is the one to talk to |
| 20:25.09 | JeffM | I know his stuff won't fit that bill |
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| 20:27.02 | mrapple | not saying it will, he just knows alot in that area and could be quite useful |
| 20:27.49 | JeffM | many people freak out when they hear C# |
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| 20:32.49 | JeffM | but we'll see where it goes .. if anywhere |
| 20:33.07 | JeffM | as long as Constitution stops paying by check |
| 20:33.25 | Constitution | sorry... hate trying to keep my paypal balance even |
| 20:33.46 | JeffM | they have these things called debit cards |
| 20:34.25 | Constitution | but what/who is going where and when, you were saying? |
| 20:34.35 | JeffM | heck |
| 20:34.39 | JeffM | handbasket |
| 20:34.41 | JeffM | asap |
| 20:35.59 | JeffM | we'll pass your git host on the way :) |
| 20:36.46 | Constitution | lol |
| 20:37.13 | JeffM | I've still never been able to push to the master again |
| 20:38.08 | Constitution | hm... and I don't think I've tried... I moved/renamed so many files and their contents and never bothered to re-sync to git... should probably do that |
| 20:38.40 | JeffM | that's one of my main problems with GIT, it lets stuff like that happen to easy and then it's hell to get everyone synced to the same changes |
| 20:38.42 | Constitution | so you can scream about my same-line opening braces and variably-allocated arrays some more ;) |
| 20:39.04 | JeffM | dosn't bother me if it dosn't work on windows |
| 20:44.07 | JeffM | Constitution, how did the new store work out. was the checkout pretty easy to do? |
| 20:44.27 | Constitution | yeah... even got the size/color right the first time ;) |
| 20:44.40 | JeffM | helps when it's not my code :) |
| 20:46.22 | Constitution | how are sales so far in general? |
| 20:47.20 | JeffM | 1 |
| 20:47.26 | JeffM | you are it |
| 20:49.59 | Constitution | well, someday the collection will be worth $$... I think I have one of everything as far as the clothing :) |
| 20:50.29 | *** part/#bzflag soxs (~Adium@pool-72-74-214-104.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:55.37 | JeffM | do you have the hat? |
| 21:00.50 | Constitution | yep |
| 21:06.31 | JeffM | then there is one item you don't have |
| 21:06.37 | JeffM | the single sided work out shirt |
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| 21:16.16 | Constitution | hmph! |
| 21:16.27 | JeffM | we only made one during the first run |
| 21:16.32 | JeffM | it was special |
| 21:25.32 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3- (~ahs3@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:36.20 | Constitution | so what's a good game concept for a bzflag replacement project? |
| 22:39.23 | JeffM | I wrote a design doc for open combat |
| 22:39.36 | JeffM | it is flexable enough to allow for a bzlfag like game mode |
| 22:42.04 | Constitution | so are we re-writing bzflag or looking for a new concept? |
| 22:43.00 | JeffM | I think bzflag is dead and the simplest thing to do is make a new project that can do what bz did and more |
| 22:43.35 | JeffM | then if you have a server configed for a bzflag style game the old players will be happy, but then also it can expand to new stuff as well |
| 22:44.20 | JeffM | if the server does most of the logic and is extensable enough then it should not be too hard to make a game that plays very close to bz on it |
| 22:46.49 | Constitution | so a game framework, rather than a game |
| 22:47.20 | Constitution | sounds like a significant endeavor... you think this team is up for something that big? |
| 22:47.26 | JeffM | a game should be part of it as well |
| 22:47.38 | JeffM | the default logic should be it's own game for sure |
| 22:47.43 | JeffM | it just should be extensable |
| 22:47.54 | JeffM | as we have seen being able to extend bzflag has made it live a lot longer |
| 22:48.15 | trepan | OSS game frameworks are dime a dozen, games seem to be rarer... |
| 22:48.17 | JeffM | it dosn't have to have ultimate flexability it just should be designed with that in mind |
| 22:48.20 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:48.32 | JeffM | make a game, just one that can be tweaked enough for some variation |
| 22:48.53 | JeffM | it dosn't need to be able to do an FPS and an RTS all in the same code base |
| 22:49.09 | JeffM | but it should be configurable so I can make a server that has shots that do 100% damage to a tank on one hit |
| 22:49.18 | JeffM | so that it can be set to play like BZ |
| 22:50.28 | trepan | '= |
| 22:50.43 | trepan | oops, new layout... |
| 22:50.48 | KTL | lol |
| 22:51.13 | trepan | was going to say, quake with some minor adjustments already fits the bill |
| 22:51.19 | trepan | as do others, iirc |
| 22:51.26 | trepan | cu |
| 22:51.29 | JeffM | yup |
| 22:51.45 | JeffM | that's one option |
| 22:51.50 | trepan | ouch, cube / sauerbraten would do, but it has the same net/sim issues as BZ |
| 22:52.02 | trepan | trusted clients |
| 22:52.13 | JeffM | and we know how that goes :) |
| 22:52.55 | JeffM | anything new should have a solid networking system |
| 22:53.03 | JeffM | designed for internet play |
| 22:53.20 | KTL | who knows how to do that? |
| 22:53.32 | JeffM | as trepan pointed out there is lots of code that shows it |
| 22:53.37 | JeffM | quake and the like |
| 22:53.41 | trepan | i'd call it a robust simulation setup -- consider it more a sim issue than networking |
| 22:53.46 | JeffM | the problem has been solved many times before |
| 22:53.47 | JeffM | sure |
| 22:53.56 | JeffM | a solid network enabled simulation |
| 22:54.01 | KTL | a physics engin |
| 22:54.22 | JeffM | it's more then just physics responce, it's also keeping everything in sync from multiple inputs |
| 22:54.43 | JeffM | the quake method has proven to be reliable on the internets |
| 22:54.53 | JeffM | just send input to the server and output to the dumb clients |
| 22:56.21 | trepan | with quantized frame step times |
| 22:56.26 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:56.30 | KTL | and your design document covers all that? |
| 22:56.32 | JeffM | it works for a BUNCH of games |
| 22:56.34 | KTL | is it online? |
| 22:56.43 | JeffM | its part of the blog |
| 22:56.45 | KTL | just curious |
| 22:57.02 | JeffM | I belive it currently describes a predictive system |
| 22:57.09 | trepan | there are lots of docs related to this subject online, you just have to look |
| 22:57.15 | JeffM | but there are a number of good articles on the quake method |
| 22:57.16 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:57.23 | JeffM | it's not a new and unique problem |
| 22:57.34 | JeffM | it would just take a little research on someone's part and then some implementation tests |
| 22:57.41 | KTL | but besides algorithms |
| 22:57.55 | KTL | how should the car look like, design patterns and stuff |
| 22:58.03 | JeffM | car? |
| 22:58.09 | trepan | could start here: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Category:Networking |
| 22:58.30 | trepan | has a bunch of links and PDFs around here somewhere |
| 22:58.33 | KTL | someone here once euhm ... made the analogy between a engine and a car for a assembly program vs a design patterns program |
| 22:58.45 | JeffM | valve does know a little about internet networking.. I hear some people play this "Team fortress" game online |
| 22:59.20 | JeffM | I think you have to decide what the car should be able to do |
| 22:59.30 | JeffM | then you pick the engine, tires, and body that fit those needs |
| 23:00.21 | JeffM | we don't need to build our own unique tires, just copy some from an existing set that work :) |
| 23:00.28 | KTL | same license |
| 23:00.40 | KTL | other language |
| 23:01.06 | JeffM | my codebase is at the point where it needs it's simulation filled out with some method of doing network sync |
| 23:01.25 | JeffM | that's why I've been reading up on like how quake and HL do it |
| 23:01.41 | KTL | the bzw format, wanna keep a part of it? :D |
| 23:01.45 | JeffM | no point |
| 23:01.46 | trepan | no |
| 23:01.55 | JeffM | make a tool to convert to something more genericv |
| 23:01.57 | JeffM | generic |
| 23:02.08 | JeffM | there is NOTHING worth keeping whole from bzflag |
| 23:02.10 | KTL | ok but stay text-based there please |
| 23:02.13 | JeffM | except maybe some art |
| 23:02.16 | JeffM | why? |
| 23:02.30 | KTL | so that even ppl with minor skills can make a map |
| 23:02.30 | JeffM | prefers compressed XML |
| 23:02.38 | JeffM | make sure there is an editor tool |
| 23:02.43 | trepan | meshy or bust, kiddies be gone |
| 23:03.12 | JeffM | I have an octree system that uses generic meshes, and a portal system with an editor that does lightmaping |
| 23:03.33 | JeffM | most exiting bzworlds can be represented as ether |
| 23:03.48 | KTL | ok xml then, as long as a outsider can figure out the format by looking at it |
| 23:03.55 | JeffM | and the portal system opens up some really cool wold geometry options |
| 23:04.00 | JeffM | why? |
| 23:04.19 | trepan | lightmapping, does it support screen sprites too? |
| 23:04.21 | JeffM | just make sure there is a clean API and lib for dealing with them |
| 23:04.26 | JeffM | heh |
| 23:04.34 | JeffM | I didn't want to learn shaders yet |
| 23:04.37 | KTL | to keep stuff open, all kinds of ppl should quickly be able to jump on the car |
| 23:04.42 | JeffM | but they would not be hard to hook into |
| 23:04.45 | trepan | dang, start with shaders |
| 23:04.51 | JeffM | I know that now |
| 23:04.55 | JeffM | I did not know that then |
| 23:05.02 | JeffM | the lightmaping is fugly |
| 23:05.05 | trepan | ya, make it a requirement |
| 23:05.11 | JeffM | KTL, not all cars should be convertables |
| 23:05.40 | JeffM | at some point world definition will be too complex to be done by hand |
| 23:05.54 | JeffM | nobody hand codes quake maps, and there is no openness problem with it |
| 23:06.05 | trepan | also, note that if you are going to allow shaders to be defined for materials, you pretty much have to go with glsl |
| 23:06.06 | JeffM | there are tons of editors as the format is well documented |
| 23:06.12 | trepan | no cg, no hlsl |
| 23:06.13 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:06.23 | JeffM | OpenTK only does glsl IIRC |
| 23:06.42 | trepan | tk is opengl, only; n'est ce pas? |
| 23:06.43 | JeffM | and that means what? cards in the last 5 years? |
| 23:07.15 | trepan | gf5200 had frag shaders, didn't it? |
| 23:07.24 | JeffM | yeah I think so |
| 23:07.48 | JeffM | and that's no longer supported with current nvida drivers |
| 23:07.49 | trepan | i'm sure the 6600 and 6800 do |
| 23:07.51 | JeffM | so should be fine |
| 23:08.09 | KTL | smells better graphics in the far distance |
| 23:08.10 | JeffM | just had to install legacy drivers on ubuntu for a FX5200 |
| 23:08.19 | JeffM | KTL, the bzflag graphics are a joke |
| 23:08.25 | trepan | it's also much nicer to require GL3 - keeps the model cleaner |
| 23:08.28 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:08.55 | JeffM | tho GL3 on windows in C++ is kinda a PITA with out something like GLEE |
| 23:09.01 | trepan | GL4 would probably be pushing it -- and it doesn't buy you nearly as much as 2 -> 3 |
| 23:09.10 | Constitution | apple drivers still suck too much for OpenGL 3.0 |
| 23:09.18 | trepan | glee, glew, whatever -- easy dependency |
| 23:09.23 | JeffM | well no mac support then |
| 23:09.27 | JeffM | no big loss |
| 23:09.31 | Constitution | ok, cu ;) |
| 23:09.41 | JeffM | will lion add GL3? |
| 23:09.48 | Constitution | it'd better |
| 23:09.53 | Constitution | this is getting ridiculous |
| 23:10.12 | JeffM | well apple wants you to play games on your phone not your desktop |
| 23:10.27 | Constitution | true |
| 23:10.47 | trepan | will it be tablet compatible? I hear desktop are to be phased out by 2014 |
| 23:10.55 | JeffM | heh |
| 23:11.27 | JeffM | maybe by 2014 I'll be able to actualy purchase an iPad at a store |
| 23:13.17 | JeffM | but honestly you don't see current FPS games offering compatable clients on portable devices |
| 23:13.26 | *** join/#bzflag sirquine (~quine@c-67-186-15-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:13.33 | JeffM | making it work with everything makes everything have some suck |
| 23:13.41 | JeffM | server managaement and admin sure, but not playing |
| 23:13.48 | JeffM | let someone fork for a mobile version |
| 23:17.14 | trepan | use GL ES 2 as the basis? |
| 23:17.47 | JeffM | does it buy anything? |
| 23:17.57 | trepan | portables |
| 23:18.07 | JeffM | dosn't realy care about em |
| 23:18.07 | trepan | also that's what webgl as based on |
| 23:18.14 | JeffM | you end up making 2 UIs |
| 23:18.34 | JeffM | and one of them sucks |
| 23:18.41 | trepan | plus recent GL release made GL compatible with GL ES 2 |
| 23:19.34 | JeffM | you could write the code with that in mind but I don't think anything will get finished if the goal is to support too many platforms |
| 23:19.52 | trepan | http://www.khronos.org/adopters/conformant-companies/#topengles |
| 23:20.03 | trepan | support 1, gl es 2 |
| 23:20.33 | trepan | is |
| 23:20.53 | trepan | it's a subset of GL, without stuff you probably won't miss too much |
| 23:21.12 | JeffM | then it's just something to keep in mind when doing graphics |
| 23:21.35 | trepan | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL_ES -- be |
| 23:21.41 | trepan | better info there... |
| 23:22.24 | trepan | i can type at 85 wpm / 99% accuracy with this layout, but i always miss the first few keystrokes... |
| 23:22.36 | JeffM | it helps the hands? |
| 23:23.36 | trepan | a little - i broke my typematrix 2030, so i'm using a standard staggered (p.o.s.) keyboard with a hacked layout until i get my new matrix |
| 23:24.51 | trepan | wants to build his own form of keyboard, something akin to the DataHand, but better |