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| 17:31.02 | echelon | hey guys, i have an exciting new proposition, and it can make you all rich! |
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| 17:36.35 | echelon | hi |
| 17:41.22 | kierra | oh joy |
| 17:42.35 | echelon | hey kierra :) |
| 17:43.22 | kierra | howdy |
| 17:44.44 | JeffM | but I'm allready rich |
| 17:45.38 | echelon | i was just explaining it to delusional |
| 17:45.47 | echelon | and it involves bitcoins :) |
| 17:46.19 | echelon | would people be interested in playing for money? |
| 17:46.32 | delusional | I don't know... these questions are for a higher "echelon" than me. |
| 17:46.37 | blast007 | is there a new proposition that would involve the game being developed further? cuz that would be more interesting for right now..... |
| 17:46.41 | JeffM | you don't get rich by gambling |
| 17:46.57 | echelon | we can set bounties for tournaments and such |
| 17:47.02 | echelon | JeffM, i was just kidding :P |
| 17:47.16 | blast007 | echelon: bounties for a game that's easy to cheat at? |
| 17:47.19 | blast007 | no thanks |
| 17:47.28 | JeffM | bzflag should never be used for anyting serious |
| 17:47.52 | echelon | league games usually exclude cheaters |
| 17:48.02 | BulletCatcher | BZFlag is fine for serious fun. :-) |
| 17:48.15 | JeffM | fun should never be serious, it should be funny :) |
| 17:48.23 | blast007 | echelon: doesn't matter |
| 17:48.27 | echelon | why does it have to be serious if it involves money |
| 17:48.37 | JeffM | because people take money seriously |
| 17:48.43 | JeffM | always do |
| 17:48.48 | blast007 | money can encourage bad things to happen |
| 17:49.02 | delusional | i'm with blast on that one |
| 17:49.10 | JeffM | people want to GET something for there money |
| 17:49.15 | JeffM | or they feel they are cheated |
| 17:49.54 | echelon | it would help server operators with their hosting costs |
| 17:50.02 | JeffM | there are too many servers as is |
| 17:50.10 | delusional | i'm with echelon on that one |
| 17:50.22 | JeffM | you are welcome to chage people to play on your server |
| 17:50.30 | JeffM | that is fully viable with the license |
| 17:50.33 | blast007 | yeah, cuz the people running on their parent's cable connection need help to cover the hosting costs ;) |
| 17:50.44 | delusional | so it's not against the terms og LGPL? |
| 17:50.48 | JeffM | go no |
| 17:50.52 | blast007 | you could sell the game if you wanted |
| 17:50.55 | JeffM | god not I mean |
| 17:50.56 | delusional | ok |
| 17:51.01 | blast007 | the LGPL specifically ALLOWS that to happen |
| 17:51.07 | JeffM | yah Gimme 20$ I'll send you bzflag :) |
| 17:51.08 | blast007 | (the GPL too afaik) |
| 17:51.10 | echelon | free players could still play, they just wouldn't get any payout |
| 17:51.11 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:51.34 | JeffM | echelon, if people pay in but may not get anything out, that's gambling |
| 17:51.41 | JeffM | and illegal in most states of the US |
| 17:51.51 | JeffM | that's why skeeball pays in tickets :) |
| 17:52.05 | JeffM | and you always get one ticket |
| 17:52.26 | echelon | hmm |
| 17:52.52 | JeffM | the best way I cam up with to make money for the project was to offer a subscription service for a small ammount each month |
| 17:53.02 | JeffM | and that subscription gives you a special title in game and on the forums |
| 17:53.09 | JeffM | as well as access to a members only server |
| 17:53.13 | blast007 | I still prefer Jeff's idea of having a $x/month thing where you get a shirt every so often and access to other servers |
| 17:53.20 | JeffM | and if you have been a member for 3 months you get 2 t-shirts a year |
| 17:53.22 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:53.27 | blast007 | yup, all that ;) |
| 17:53.29 | JeffM | then everyone gets something |
| 17:53.47 | JeffM | and if you make it like $5 a month most people will forget about it and let it keep going |
| 17:54.07 | echelon | well bitcoins are infinitely divisible |
| 17:54.09 | JeffM | but bzflag dosn't need money |
| 17:54.21 | JeffM | it has money it dosn't know how to use |
| 17:54.25 | JeffM | and it's dead anyway :) |
| 17:54.27 | echelon | so a person could just pay in BTC 0.00001 |
| 17:54.40 | JeffM | they have limited use |
| 17:54.44 | echelon | and they wouldn't feel defrauded if they lost |
| 17:54.50 | JeffM | I know it's growing, but its still limited |
| 17:54.54 | JeffM | still gambling |
| 17:54.58 | JeffM | and illegal |
| 17:55.20 | JeffM | if you want to do it on your server that's your call, but be ready for the law to come calling :) |
| 17:55.27 | echelon | i'll just set one up in russia -_- |
| 17:55.35 | JeffM | again your call |
| 17:55.42 | JeffM | but not really something the project should be involved in |
| 17:56.02 | BulletCatcher | The Russians would want their cut of your revenue. |
| 17:56.20 | echelon | heh |
| 17:56.25 | blast007 | In Soviet Russia, coin bit you! |
| 17:56.32 | echelon | :D |
| 17:56.35 | JeffM | or just makes you dead |
| 17:57.02 | echelon | bitcoin is good for gambling as there's no money trail |
| 17:57.17 | JeffM | hope the feds belive that |
| 17:57.26 | JeffM | but can you please stop talking about illegal things here |
| 17:57.36 | echelon | ok, sorry |
| 17:57.54 | echelon | if it's between consenting parties i don't see why it has to be illegal |
| 17:58.06 | JeffM | because the law says it is |
| 17:58.10 | BulletCatcher | Talk to your lawyer about that. |
| 17:58.12 | JeffM | laws don't always make sense |
| 17:58.12 | blast007 | you're still talking about it ;) |
| 18:09.12 | BulletCatcher | I have been successful in making the Phoenix plugin do what I ask it to do, but I'm not sure that the results would be good for others. |
| 18:09.17 | BulletCatcher | DropGeometry::dropPlayer() can only move the tank vertically if the initial location is unsafe, but that doesn't help when the tank is above a pyramid. |
| 18:09.22 | BulletCatcher | I have Phoenix also testing 4 positions, 5 world units away in each cardinal direction, but even that does not always find a safe spot. |
| 18:09.27 | BulletCatcher | What I really want is the nearest safe spot in any direction, but that may be too expensive computationally. |
| 18:09.30 | BulletCatcher | It might be eough to speed up the extraction process for a partially sealed tank, but I can't remember where that code is. |
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| 18:42.35 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: or just spawn them in a new spot completely? |
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| 19:35.42 | BulletCatcher | The point of using the Phoenix plugin is to spawn where you died. I am trying to change that to "nearby" when the death spot is unsafe. |
| 19:36.41 | BulletCatcher | When using it on a HiX map some users were sealed when they respawned too close to an obstacle. |
| 19:45.17 | blast007 | in what instance should the death spot be unsafe? |
| 19:45.34 | blast007 | a death physics driver? water? |
| 19:45.47 | blast007 | saw you mentioned sealed tanks too |
| 19:46.00 | blast007 | is that caused by then having tiny/narrow when dying? |
| 19:46.03 | blast007 | them* |
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| 19:48.25 | blast007 | and I could see at least one instance where it wouldn't be easily possible to find a nearby "safe location" - let's say there are two boxes that you need to have narrow or tiny to get between.. your code would have to find some way out of that situation |
| 19:55.23 | Cobra_Fast | people get stuck when phoenix-respawning on top of a teleporter in hix |
| 20:08.11 | BulletCatcher | That may help me test, Cobra_Fast, thanks. So far I haven't been able to reproduce the sealed-on-respawn problem myself. |
| 20:08.32 | BulletCatcher | But I saw two laggy tanks do it repeatedly. |
| 20:09.23 | BulletCatcher | blast007: No flags were involved in the sealed problem. |
| 20:10.05 | blast007 | sounds like a good side effect for laggers ;) |
| 20:10.15 | blast007 | I'd call that a feature! |
| 20:11.20 | BulletCatcher | I am trying to build a GU HiX practice map, so punishing laggers is not helpful. |
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| 20:52.47 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: hehe |
| 20:53.38 | blast007 | do you think that the DropGeometry::dropPlayer() function is enough to determine if the current position is safe? |
| 20:55.04 | blast007 | or is that not used for that (I haven't looked at the code in detail - but it sounds like it trys to find a safe 'z' position based on fixed x and y coordinates?) |
| 20:59.38 | blast007 | and are you preferring that the spawn keep the same 'z' coordinate and instead adjust the x and y to move them away from the obstacle? if so, there's probably other functions that would help with that, such as isValidClearance |
| 20:59.44 | blast007 | or are you* |
| 21:00.38 | blast007 | or exposing the COLLISIONMGR to the API |
| 21:02.17 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: hmm, or here's another idea. Track the last several seconds of player positions in your plugin, and then try to find the most recent one that isn't inside an obstacle via DropGeometry::isValidClearance() |
| 22:02.42 | KTL | are there kbuild enthousiasts here by accident? |
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