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| 01:54.24 | KTL | if i want 100 dynamic textures, all out of sync, will i need 100 materials? |
| 01:54.52 | trepan | yes |
| 01:55.25 | KTL | it's for cases like these you wrote the lua code i guess |
| 01:55.26 | trepan | i did something similar to get the tictactoe map working (27 dyncols, iirc) |
| 01:55.59 | trepan | generate the dyncol defs using an offline lua script :) |
| 01:56.02 | trepan | *generated |
| 01:56.28 | KTL | is the idea that i feed the lua to bzfs? |
| 01:56.53 | trepan | lua makedyncol.lua > ttt_dyncols.bzw |
| 01:57.21 | trepan | then use "include", or just paste the results into your map |
| 01:57.47 | KTL | so all this lua i heard till now is totally separated from bzflag code? |
| 01:58.21 | KTL | or was the idea that the server would distribute it to the clients so that the clients could interprete it |
| 01:58.22 | KTL | ? |
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| 01:58.45 | KTL | it could have been python or ruby |
| 01:58.46 | trepan | you could embed lua in 2.99.x .bzw's, but HEAD is DEAD |
| 01:59.13 | trepan | there are 3 different lua script environments in 2.99.x |
| 01:59.23 | trepan | all server-side |
| 01:59.33 | trepan | server sources -> client executes |
| 01:59.39 | trepan | bzflag.org sources -> client executes |
| 01:59.48 | KTL | "head is dead" -> is head the code that would become bzflag 3.0 ? |
| 01:59.48 | trepan | and the 4th, client sources -> client executes |
| 02:00.01 | trepan | yup, head would become 3.0 |
| 02:00.16 | KTL | euh future of bzflag? |
| 02:00.19 | trepan | yup |
| 02:00.42 | KTL | so euh 2.0.16 forever? |
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| 02:01.02 | trepan | 2.0.17 (SVN) has some observer enhancements ;) |
| 02:01.10 | KTL | omg |
| 02:02.06 | KTL | so euh 2.99.x has become such a mess that the quite large amounts of work invested in it got lost? |
| 02:02.19 | KTL | aw |
| 02:02.31 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 02:02.36 | trepan | game state and networking bugs were introduced quite a while back |
| 02:02.37 | JeffM2501 | none cares to work on it |
| 02:02.48 | JeffM2501 | nobody really cares to work on 2.0.x ether |
| 02:03.07 | JeffM2501 | it's more of a general devlopment apathy I think then the V3 codebase |
| 02:03.17 | JeffM2501 | in many ways it's cleaner to work with |
| 02:04.03 | trepan | unfortunately, dev'ing was done in such a fashion that precludes a release of the current code |
| 02:04.17 | JeffM2501 | yup |
| 02:05.12 | KTL | so 2.99 and 2.0.17 have become different species |
| 02:05.26 | trepan | apparently, it isn't the big commits that are the killers; it's the insidious little ones :) |
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| 02:05.44 | JeffM2501 | no, developers just don't give a crap :) |
| 02:06.34 | KTL | mmm lol |
| 02:06.47 | JeffM2501 | no.. not really lol |
| 02:06.57 | JeffM2501 | bzflag has had it's time.. and that time is nearly over |
| 02:07.28 | KTL | so far open source game dev |
| 02:08.15 | JeffM2501 | open source projects die all the time |
| 02:08.19 | JeffM2501 | and new ones replace them |
| 02:08.47 | KTL | most of them seem to stay relatively small |
| 02:08.58 | KTL | bzflag got a bit complicated for a new dev |
| 02:09.19 | JeffM2501 | bzflag started out compilcated for a new dev, it never had a clean understandable codebase |
| 02:10.20 | KTL | are there general lines of the code documented somewhere? |
| 02:10.26 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 02:10.41 | KTL | that would help newcomers if they wanted to code |
| 02:10.48 | JeffM2501 | sure, but we ain't got any |
| 02:10.57 | trepan | DEVINFO |
| 02:10.57 | JeffM2501 | bzflag wasn't writen open source when it was started |
| 02:11.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's about the best you'll get |
| 02:15.29 | JeffM2501 | it's ok, if there really is a need for a game like BZ then someone will make one |
| 02:17.06 | JeffM2501 | I know some others are working on new games using what they learned in bz |
| 02:17.38 | Cobra_Fast | is there something to see of these games yet? |
| 02:18.00 | JeffM2501 | not that I am aware of |
| 02:18.16 | KTL | usually there are a lot of starters, but seldom something comes to fruition |
| 02:18.22 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 02:18.26 | JeffM2501 | but all it takes is one :) |
| 02:18.33 | JeffM2501 | and you can't have that one with out some starters |
| 02:21.14 | delusional | sixteen dollars shipping on a hoodie.. seems kinda steep..... you did say they are heavy weight. |
| 02:21.22 | JeffM2501 | they are big |
| 02:21.26 | JeffM2501 | and have to go in a box |
| 02:22.29 | JeffM2501 | 16 is for anything up to like 20lbs that dosn't fit in the flat rate envelope |
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| 02:24.09 | JeffM2501 | shippin them to europe sucks, it's like 35$ |
| 02:28.58 | JeffM2501 | blast007, Constitution do you want to open source the rank icons for the forums? |
| 02:34.01 | JeffM2501 | my intenet was for them to only be used by the forums, that's why I didn't open source them myself |
| 02:34.08 | JeffM2501 | so they'd be special |
| 02:35.08 | JeffM2501 | now there is a fugly site using them that makes me weep |
| 02:35.22 | JeffM2501 | but I'll CCSA em if you want others to use em |
| 02:35.42 | KTL | delusional, http://users.telenet.be/dpf/bzflag/not_too_bad.bzw.zip |
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| 02:36.21 | KTL | 66618 vertices gnignigni |
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| 02:38.03 | delusional | what's your FPS count? |
| 02:38.14 | KTL | 427 |
| 02:38.29 | KTL | (huge monstruous ati card) |
| 02:38.39 | KTL | (and obviously no faces in the map) |
| 02:38.45 | JeffM2501 | what card? |
| 02:39.15 | KTL | Radeon HD 5900 |
| 02:39.21 | KTL | says lspci |
| 02:39.52 | KTL | 5970 says a box |
| 02:39.57 | JeffM2501 | almost got an ati 5k series, ended up with a nvidia 460 |
| 02:40.13 | delusional | no errors with -dddd |
| 02:40.30 | KTL | delusional, on my map? |
| 02:41.58 | delusional | YAY, it's not a FPS killer |
| 02:42.06 | KTL | :) |
| 02:42.08 | delusional | quite impressive, |
| 02:42.19 | KTL | the lods might help a lot here |
| 02:42.33 | KTL | but it is not easy to generate random good-looking fractals |
| 02:42.55 | KTL | the ones there look a little bit ok because they reuse some of my handcrafted fractals |
| 02:43.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah but how does it run on an intel 915 chipset? ;) |
| 02:43.42 | KTL | i still have mini hp laptop ... mmm must check |
| 02:48.04 | KTL | cool other tanks and bullets look nice in that environment |
| 02:48.36 | KTL | the minihp behaves less shacky compared to normal maps like eg badgerkings |
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| 02:51.58 | delusional | there has to be something to provide depth perception |
| 02:53.25 | KTL | i thought about A. more fractals B. slower textures (easier to spot them) C. all fractals inside boxes and pyrs D. boxes and pyrs containing a few black faces to obstruct the view |
| 02:53.38 | KTL | all those measures together might give some 3d idea |
| 02:53.54 | trepan | E. move around :) |
| 02:53.58 | KTL | yes |
| 02:54.00 | KTL | absolutely |
| 02:54.02 | JeffM2501 | G profit! |
| 02:54.19 | delusional | forgot the ????? phase |
| 02:54.50 | KTL | but players that dont move are sitting ducks anyway |
| 02:57.19 | KTL | i still have the problem that i dont know how to calculate the amount of leafs my fractal will have, i can calculate a high upperlimit but that is all |
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| 03:32.53 | KTL | goodnight |
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| 06:19.48 | Wreckage | heya, anyone awake? |
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| 17:33.33 | JeffM2501 | guesses he should make an order tracking system now that he's got a whoping 2 orders on the store :) |
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| 18:57.56 | JefferyM | delusional, how the hell did you order a tripple XL zip up hoodie? |
| 19:00.19 | JefferyM | and Constitution did you order a doubleXL? |
| 19:00.25 | JefferyM | or an XL? |
| 19:02.51 | JefferyM | nevermind... bug in the admin infterace |
| 19:08.22 | JefferyM | I also owe each of you 5$ |
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| 19:11.25 | JefferyM | there we go, store fixed, partial refunds sent |
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| 21:24.31 | Constitution | TimRiker: any interest at all in releasing bz under a secondary license that's compatible with the Apple app store? some guy is working on an iOS port but is concerned by the licensing issues |
| 21:25.17 | Constitution | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=16882 |
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| 21:55.26 | KTL | i need to test if a vertex is inside a box or pyramid , maybe i should build the faces and see if the vertex is at the correct side ... or are there better ideas? |
| 21:55.46 | JefferyM | how fast does it need to be? |
| 21:56.00 | JefferyM | and is the box and pyramid always manifold and convex? |
| 21:56.01 | KTL | (doing it the same way as bzflag does with inside points and shooting rays, counting the raycount is a bit too much, i could to it but pfft) |
| 21:56.11 | KTL | just bzflag boxes and pyrs, convex |
| 21:56.38 | JefferyM | the "game way" of doing it would be to do a sphere test first, then go to a bbox then per face test |
| 21:56.54 | JefferyM | an AABBox test is very fast |
| 21:57.04 | JefferyM | but not as fast as a sphere test |
| 21:57.05 | KTL | but the boxes might be rotated |
| 21:57.19 | JefferyM | yeah that's why you need to go do a face test if it's in the bbox |
| 21:57.36 | JefferyM | you do fast tests to get rid of data that is obviously out |
| 21:57.50 | JefferyM | sphere then face is probably fine for your needs |
| 21:57.51 | KTL | ok aabb as precheck, then the finer work with faces |
| 21:57.56 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 21:58.13 | KTL | unless the box isnt rotated at all, then i can just do aab |
| 21:58.15 | JefferyM | you want to do the slow tests on the smallest dataset possible |
| 21:58.18 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 21:58.33 | JefferyM | you can probably also do some quick Z throwouts |
| 21:58.41 | JefferyM | if its' above or below the height, it's out |
| 21:58.51 | KTL | gonna need a parser for simple bzw files again, this time in c++ |
| 21:58.53 | JefferyM | since we can only rotate in one axis |
| 21:59.04 | JefferyM | I wrote one for the new bzedit |
| 21:59.10 | JefferyM | there is also one in bzworkbench |
| 21:59.12 | KTL | i could sort all boxes in one dimension |
| 21:59.21 | JefferyM | you may also be able to use libbzw code from the SOC |
| 22:00.14 | KTL | bzedit ok time to check that out, euhm ... do you happen to know the svn line that downloads the minimum, it is only to get bzedit? |
| 22:00.17 | JefferyM | the one I wrote was "lossless" if it didn't know what an object was, it just stored it as a text stream |
| 22:00.28 | JefferyM | not off the top of my head |
| 22:00.34 | JefferyM | it's another root project tho |
| 22:00.41 | JefferyM | let me look |
| 22:00.59 | blast007 | KTL: bzedit is the old moldy one. bzworkbench is the new shiny one. |
| 22:01.12 | JefferyM | blast007, there are 3 bzedits |
| 22:01.32 | JefferyM | I am speaking of my unfinsihed cross platform one, I specificly wrote a generic parser for it |
| 22:01.45 | JefferyM | you don't want bzedit linux or bzedit win32 |
| 22:01.51 | blast007 | oh, there was a NEW bzedit too? |
| 22:01.52 | KTL | linux |
| 22:02.01 | JefferyM | you DON'T want bzedit linux |
| 22:02.04 | JefferyM | it's wicked old |
| 22:02.11 | KTL | :D |
| 22:02.11 | JefferyM | blast007, I started one before workbench was concewived |
| 22:02.15 | blast007 | ah |
| 22:02.18 | KTL | just a bit of code to parse the bzw :D |
| 22:02.26 | blast007 | and yeah, the linux bzedit probably won't even build anymore |
| 22:03.02 | blast007 | think it depended on something that no longer exists in current libs |
| 22:03.17 | KTL | ok maybe i should just copy my python code rework it to c++ :D |
| 22:03.30 | JefferyM | hmm looks like we didn't move it over |
| 22:03.51 | JefferyM | so it's probalby still in CVS |
| 22:04.33 | JefferyM | and I can't enable CVS anymore |
| 22:04.54 | JefferyM | so yeah libbzw is probably your best starting point |
| 22:05.29 | JefferyM | it's in branches, gsoc_libbzw |
| 22:05.40 | KTL | and that probably has a dozen dependencies i dont need and will give me compilation trouble like forever :D |
| 22:05.53 | JefferyM | it should not need much |
| 22:05.55 | JefferyM | boost maybe |
| 22:06.03 | KTL | boost is ok |
| 22:06.06 | JefferyM | it's goal was for it to be lightweight |
| 22:06.17 | JefferyM | I don't know how far the student got on it |
| 22:07.10 | KTL | stop searching, i continue with my old python :p |
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| 22:08.14 | JefferyM | goes back to finishing up auth and reg in the game launcher |
| 22:08.22 | KTL | :) |
| 22:09.49 | Constitution | JefferyM: the hoodie is just a large, right? |
| 22:09.59 | JefferyM | yeah, and you wanted navy right? |
| 22:10.31 | JefferyM | 1: BZFlag Pullover Hoodie Preorder Large Navy |
| 22:10.52 | JefferyM | amazing what happens when you don't use the product ID for the size and color ID :) |
| 22:10.53 | Constitution | yeah, ok |
| 22:11.12 | Constitution | didn't want to end up ordering a robe instead of a hoodie |
| 22:11.23 | JefferyM | yeah I thought that was an odd size for you |
| 22:11.25 | trepan | KTL: hack your map generation C++ into bzfs |
| 22:11.43 | JefferyM | plugins can define maps too |
| 22:11.51 | JefferyM | I think |
| 22:12.08 | trepan | load up the world, and use the bzfs world geometry collision routines; then dump your drawInfoss into a file |
| 22:12.11 | trepan | *drawInfo's |
| 22:12.36 | JefferyM | ahh drawinfos, yeah that can't be done in a plugin :) |
| 22:13.13 | trepan | might be able to using *nix linkage |
| 22:13.21 | trepan | would be able to in 2.99.x with the mods i made |
| 22:13.28 | JefferyM | true |
| 22:13.51 | trepan | either way, just hacking bzfs to use the collision crap is probably good enough for what he's doing :) |
| 22:13.58 | JefferyM | indeed |
| 22:15.31 | trepan | KTL: bzbattleground.com:5432 (and 5433) |
| 22:17.58 | trepan | (:5432 has drawInfo rain, equiv. to about 6.4 million particles, runs at very little cost) |
| 22:41.20 | *** join/#bzflag R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 22:48.50 | KTL | looks |
| 22:50.06 | KTL | 6.4 mil :) |
| 22:57.13 | trepan | try that with _rainDensity ;) |
| 22:57.51 | trepan | to be fair, the drawInfo rain is only partially depth sorted |
| 23:16.33 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (~a3@ip24-251-157-63.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:18.57 | *** join/#bzflag catay (~smertens@84.16.252.233) |