| 00:00.29 | FiringSquad | lol - gl with that :-) I just wanted to be sure it was read - but that was as close as I could get |
| 00:01.17 | trepan | a little pun-spinning practice? |
| 00:01.20 | mrapple | can pen spin |
| 00:02.38 | a_meteorite | pen spinning is fun and games until someone gets their eye poked out! |
| 00:02.46 | mrapple | trepan: and if you think your good at pen spinning, watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q7s4E94-No |
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| 01:01.21 | Zac_ | admi |
| 01:01.26 | Zac_ | hullo |
| 01:01.28 | Zac_ | ?? |
| 01:02.23 | mrapple | Hi |
| 01:02.52 | blast007 | Zac_: need something? |
| 01:03.18 | Zac_ | hmm |
| 01:03.29 | Zac_ | is this an open irc channel? |
| 01:03.45 | Zac_ | do i have to discuss specific stuff here? |
| 01:03.47 | mrapple | What do you mean? This is for dev chat. If you just want to chat, join #bzflag-chat |
| 01:03.56 | Zac_ | oh ok |
| 01:04.04 | Zac_ | cool |
| 01:04.09 | mrapple | Or problems, or anything else really thats "on topic" |
| 01:04.15 | mrapple | nevermind then |
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| 04:19.28 | CodeBlue__ | @sk3 |
| 04:19.32 | CodeBlue__ | @seen Sk3 |
| 04:19.35 | CodeBlue__ | -_- |
| 04:29.34 | lol_udied | mkay lets cut this silence bullshit and lets bring out the beer and party :P |
| 04:31.42 | lol_udied | Oh come on don't be shy.... |
| 04:31.57 | lol_udied | JeffM? Blast007? ahs3? |
| 04:37.11 | lol_udied | woww |
| 04:44.51 | lol_udied | lamee |
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| 17:36.15 | JefferyM | Runic, please for the love of the gods fork it ;) |
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| 18:22.29 | Runic | Jeff, Please, Don't feel that I'm still asking to add this to BZFlag, as I'm not. |
| 18:22.43 | Runic | I get it, you want BZFlag to just fade away in the darkness. ( is it dead yet? ) |
| 18:23.02 | temporalD | BZombieFlag |
| 18:24.16 | Runic | or so it seems |
| 18:24.43 | Runic | BZDeathFlag |
| 18:27.46 | trepan | if a fork occurred, what code would one want to keep? |
| 18:28.54 | Runic | lol |
| 18:32.32 | Runic | BZDeathMatch - I like it |
| 18:36.55 | Runic | I say spoon it instead, or maybe better yet, spoork it |
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| 20:15.14 | JefferyM_ | Runic, I want a better tank game, I just don't see it in bzflag's current setup :) |
| 20:15.24 | JefferyM_ | but does your code have a max angle that can be climbed? |
| 20:15.46 | jh` | i like bz how it is |
| 20:15.55 | mrapple | Are you discusing a new bzflag-like game? |
| 20:16.00 | JefferyM_ | cool, then you can keep plaing it ;) |
| 20:16.05 | jh` | i will |
| 20:16.09 | JefferyM_ | Runic, I agree with your last comments for shallow angles |
| 20:16.41 | JefferyM_ | after a certan slope I don't think it'll work out that well when it gets over the barrel of the tank and you end up firing in "into" the object |
| 20:17.25 | JefferyM_ | mrapple, there isn't much from bz worth keeping in another game other then "tanks are cool" ;) |
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| 20:17.57 | mrapple | Yassen has started a completley new game based on the bzflag game style |
| 20:18.04 | JeffM | good for him |
| 20:18.25 | JeffM | there a project page for it? |
| 20:18.28 | mrapple | http://code.google.com/p/xynilex/ if you're intrested |
| 20:18.39 | mrapple | #xynilex |
| 20:18.45 | JeffM | fun |
| 20:18.52 | JeffM | it shoudl be easy to make a game using those tools |
| 20:19.18 | mrapple | im hoping it will turn out |
| 20:19.32 | mrapple | if your interested, runic, im sure he would appreciate some help |
| 20:19.34 | JeffM | the hardest part will be designing a robust network simulation |
| 20:20.37 | Cobra_Fast | what do you certainly mean by "network simulation"? |
| 20:20.46 | mrapple | based on what he was telling me, he has a pretty good idea of what he's doing |
| 20:22.09 | JeffM | the thing that keeps the game state in sync with clients and server |
| 20:23.15 | JeffM | aka the part of bzflag that has all the problems |
| 20:27.25 | mrapple | do it right and you could probably avoid most cheating |
| 20:27.33 | JeffM | yep |
| 20:27.41 | JeffM | where right == 'like most other games do it' |
| 20:27.47 | mrapple | eg server places shots, detects kills, etc ;) |
| 20:27.54 | JeffM | it ain't rocket science you just have to do a little research |
| 20:28.46 | JeffM | thinks that a way to push updates out to users is important in modern games too |
| 20:29.38 | mrapple | registration in game would be nicew |
| 20:29.40 | mrapple | nice* |
| 20:29.53 | JeffM | it should be a requirement on install or launch |
| 20:30.09 | JeffM | and then just limit them to a subset of servers untill they verify the address |
| 20:30.14 | JeffM | treat it like a MMO |
| 20:30.36 | JeffM | software as service etc.. |
| 20:30.36 | mrapple | yeah |
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| 20:50.30 | Runic | JeffM: there is no max angle in it but an angle leaning towards the tank would end up blocking the tank from climbing up, so any angle 90 or less the tank could climb |
| 20:52.03 | Runic | maybe even 91, or 92 |
| 20:52.35 | mrapple | is this about tanks driving on angles? |
| 20:52.35 | Runic | unless it was really small object |
| 20:52.36 | JeffM | I'd like to limit it to like 30 degrees for long objects |
| 20:52.46 | JeffM | yeah really small it should jump |
| 20:53.00 | Runic | an angle could be added but that would kill ladders |
| 20:53.19 | Runic | in the end I wanted it to be the mapper choice |
| 20:53.20 | Cobra_Fast | mrapple: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=150963#p150963 |
| 20:53.55 | Runic | s/mapper/mapper's/ |
| 20:54.03 | JeffM | transport obejcts should be defined by phydrivers |
| 20:54.08 | JeffM | then it still is mappers choice |
| 20:54.23 | mrapple | Cobra_Fast: i read |
| 20:54.56 | JeffM | I can see the gameplay desire to be able to drive around and manuver on small slopes or ramps, but not larger more vertical things |
| 20:55.00 | JeffM | tanks should not climb walls ;) |
| 20:55.24 | JeffM | and if you do climb something you should not be able to manuver |
| 20:55.30 | JeffM | laders are the exception not the rule ;) |
| 20:55.49 | Runic | well the defult maxbumpheight is fairly small |
| 20:56.03 | Runic | s/defult/default/ |
| 20:56.16 | JeffM | yeah but you arn't talking about a bump between objects, you are talking about a delta on a slope ;) |
| 20:56.18 | Runic | arg |
| 20:56.19 | JeffM | that's not a bump |
| 20:57.04 | JeffM | but I can understand your point |
| 20:57.33 | JeffM | I think there is a compromise somewhere in there |
| 20:58.45 | Runic | could be, I think in the end it should be each object is either climbable or not with an add max angle |
| 20:59.00 | Runic | per object |
| 20:59.16 | JeffM | should tanks really climb? they ain't people |
| 20:59.58 | JeffM | I say treat em like a wheel chair, slight slopes sure, but when you get to stairs big enough you have to jump em |
| 21:00.04 | Runic | realy tanks can climb someobjects, it would be up to the mapper to decide which objects that would be climbable |
| 21:00.07 | JeffM | or take the elevator ( pydriver) |
| 21:00.46 | JeffM | the climnbing of sizeable objects is the part that I think tim disagreed with |
| 21:01.05 | Runic | let's face escalators such |
| 21:01.14 | Runic | suck |
| 21:01.14 | JeffM | they should be defined as a pydriver |
| 21:01.18 | JeffM | heh |
| 21:01.36 | JeffM | they are transport objects, you get on them, you wait and you get off them |
| 21:01.44 | JeffM | you don't get to climb all over them |
| 21:01.51 | JeffM | or the mall cops ask you to leave ;) |
| 21:02.21 | Runic | I can climb up an escalator if I feel it is too slow |
| 21:02.42 | JeffM | and you may get a stinky look from those in front of you ;) |
| 21:02.48 | JeffM | just because we can do somethign dosn't mean we should |
| 21:02.54 | Runic | just depends on how lazy you are |
| 21:02.56 | JeffM | you can't climb an elevator |
| 21:03.11 | JeffM | and to me the escalator in BZ is an angled elevator |
| 21:03.27 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:03.35 | Runic | gets some rope |
| 21:04.04 | Runic | are you talking about a jumping pad? |
| 21:04.05 | JeffM | but I think the best way to move foward is to implement some code that will let people drive over shallow "not flat" faces |
| 21:04.26 | JeffM | well right now all we have is jump pads, but I'd like to see elevator type objects later |
| 21:04.44 | Runic | I haven't looked at that code in a while, maybe when I have some time I will again |
| 21:05.10 | JeffM | letting people drive over nearly flat shallow surfaces lets the game be played as intended with out the need for the geometry to be perfect |
| 21:05.14 | JeffM | and that's just a win all around |
| 21:05.33 | Runic | moving solid objects in BZFlag, please tell me more |
| 21:05.35 | JeffM | after that then it would be possible to experiment with other angles to see how it works out |
| 21:05.48 | JeffM | Runic, it's been talked about for a while |
| 21:06.08 | JeffM | or maybe not evne an object, but just a pydriver that sets Z over time |
| 21:06.17 | JeffM | isntead of just applying an impulse |
| 21:06.24 | JeffM | none of it exists yet |
| 21:06.25 | JeffM | but could |
| 21:06.35 | Runic | oh elevator without a floor weird |
| 21:06.53 | JeffM | but the problem that exists now is driving a tank over geometry that is INTENEDED to be flat but is not |
| 21:06.53 | temporalD | that's a hole |
| 21:07.03 | JeffM | play halo, grav lifts |
| 21:07.23 | Runic | my code fixes that hole |
| 21:07.24 | JeffM | moving solds have other implecations specificly with rico |
| 21:07.36 | JeffM | ok then implement your code JUST to fix the hole now |
| 21:07.46 | JeffM | but leave it so that we can enable the other features later |
| 21:07.51 | JeffM | that's the best way to move forward |
| 21:08.19 | JeffM | then we can figure out what level of slopes we want the bassic game to be able to use |
| 21:08.38 | Runic | one of the biggest issues I see is the !InAir as I understand why that is wanted, will need to figure out another way to keep that rule in place |
| 21:09.07 | JeffM | my problem with giving mappers too much controll is that they tend to make maps that don't follow the "normal" rules and cofnuse people who arn't used to the map |
| 21:09.21 | JeffM | and bzflag is not realy great at telling people that conditions have changed. |
| 21:09.58 | Runic | THat doesn't bother me. if a map is that weird I just wouldn't play on it |
| 21:10.10 | JeffM | you are not a normal player |
| 21:10.18 | JeffM | you are an existing player/dev |
| 21:10.22 | Runic | I'm not 12 |
| 21:10.38 | JeffM | you quickly understand that they have changed something because you have a good knowledge of how it's suposed to work |
| 21:10.43 | JeffM | yeah and you arn't 12 :) |
| 21:10.54 | JeffM | bassicly we don't want to frustrate users |
| 21:11.08 | JeffM | so there must be a ballance between full openness and no features |
| 21:11.10 | Runic | again I think that a mapper issue not a dev one |
| 21:11.27 | Runic | we just need to pick a good defualt |
| 21:11.30 | JeffM | it all depends on what we are making a game or a game making system where the mapper is the game designer |
| 21:11.35 | JeffM | and I thought we were making a game |
| 21:11.40 | JeffM | not a game making system. |
| 21:11.54 | JeffM | cus why even have any weapons or anything |
| 21:12.01 | JeffM | if it's just a game toolkit |
| 21:12.03 | Runic | ok, I guess I can see that point a little |
| 21:12.21 | JeffM | sure we let people put our peices in a different order to mix it up |
| 21:12.40 | JeffM | but lately we've been letting them change all the parts around and define new ones |
| 21:12.44 | Runic | I like the diversty |
| 21:13.05 | JeffM | so you would want to go to a different city and suddenly have to drive on the other side of the road? |
| 21:13.43 | JeffM | or go to a new footall stadium where you are suposed to use your hands and not your feet, but you don't get told untill after you start your game? ;) |
| 21:13.56 | Runic | in real lie no, a game sure why not, but if I go to Londan I guess I would have to deal with it in real life |
| 21:14.13 | JeffM | because you expect before you go to london in a different country to drive different |
| 21:14.20 | JeffM | to me that's a game based on bzflag |
| 21:14.25 | JeffM | but not bzflag |
| 21:14.32 | JeffM | where there is the EXPECTATION of a difference |
| 21:14.50 | Runic | that what server messages are for, if you didn't read them it's your fault |
| 21:14.51 | JeffM | I'd have less problem with it if hte list server could sort them by "game play" |
| 21:14.58 | JeffM | that's a bullcrap anwer |
| 21:15.18 | JeffM | and it's answers like that why bzflag is so inconsisent |
| 21:15.48 | JeffM | there should be a desgn part to a game |
| 21:15.55 | JeffM | the question is who are the designers? |
| 21:15.59 | JeffM | us or the mappers |
| 21:16.09 | Runic | bad maps die so, if a map maker wants their map to live long they will avoid doing stupid things |
| 21:16.11 | JeffM | traditional mapers design environments, not games |
| 21:16.31 | JeffM | heh said like a long term player who dosn't want new people to play there game |
| 21:16.32 | JeffM | ;) |
| 21:16.42 | JeffM | but still I don't think your code is bad to have |
| 21:16.55 | JeffM | so I still say put it in to fix the hole |
| 21:17.08 | JeffM | and leave the rest disabled but usable with a small change then we can test it out |
| 21:17.17 | Runic | ok, I look at it again eventually |
| 21:17.18 | JeffM | maybe you will convince others and it'll be turned on, who wknows :) |
| 21:18.16 | JeffM | and I don't want bzflag to wither and die, I want it to be forked so that there can be an expectaion of changes to proejct management and it can actualy move forward |
| 21:18.25 | JeffM | instead of just sitting here |
| 21:18.49 | JeffM | optimaly i'd like bzflag to be turned into a game system that also shipps with a default game module |
| 21:19.03 | JeffM | and other designers could make new game moduels that plugin and are played |
| 21:19.06 | Runic | ok, it just look that way to me, no offense meant |
| 21:19.22 | JeffM | as long as the player knowns what they are jumping into :) |
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| 21:20.24 | JeffM | when you play a quake mod, the mod name is shown on the server |
| 21:20.30 | JeffM | so you know it's not a "standard" game |
| 21:20.53 | JeffM | or some mods even hide non mod servers, etc.. |
| 21:21.06 | JeffM | it's flexable but still informative to the end user |
| 21:21.38 | Runic | I understand you wanting the user to know what he is in for |
| 21:22.03 | JeffM | we just seem to care less about the new enduser then we care about the existing player |
| 21:22.06 | Runic | and agree that is no how bzflag is currently |
| 21:22.18 | JeffM | bzflag == coffie it's an aquired taste :) |
| 21:22.56 | JeffM | maybe it needs a frapachino mode |
| 21:23.56 | Runic | frag-achino |
| 21:24.09 | JeffM | if it was quake sure :) |
| 21:25.07 | Runic | ok, cool beans, I have to go so I'll catch you later |
| 21:25.14 | JeffM | have fun |
| 21:25.23 | Runic | loads - wee traffic |
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| 21:41.53 | trepan | doesn't think forking is likely to produce anything of value |
| 21:42.40 | JeffM | it'll produce a group of people with a decent vission and drive, that's all it has to do |
| 21:43.23 | JeffM | guess I"m thinking more about people forking then code forking ;) |
| 21:43.56 | trepan | that makes sense |
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| 21:56.01 | JeffM | has a cheezy plan to win over hearts and minds |
| 22:08.05 | kierra | is immune |
| 22:10.06 | JeffM | we'll see |
| 22:10.11 | JeffM | it may involve ponies |
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| 22:16.15 | kierra | came for the food, JeffM |
| 22:19.02 | BulletCatcher | notes he did say it was cheezy |
| 22:24.43 | JeffM | there will be no cake.. it is a lie |
| 22:33.06 | JeffM | now that's a bit of a ping time |
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| 22:46.33 | kierra | just cheese? |
| 22:47.26 | spldart | 42 |
| 22:47.54 | JeffM | probably some wine too |
| 22:48.04 | kierra | oh, now you're talking! |
| 23:06.23 | kierra | white? |
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| 23:23.24 | trepan | cheescake? |
| 23:26.07 | JeffM | peanutbutter pie |
| 23:29.58 | kierra | i love cheesecake |
| 23:30.04 | kierra | and flan |