| 00:05.16 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@adsl-76-229-123-204.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 00:05.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 00:12.53 | JeffM2501 | lovely new page that the gu leauge has there ;) |
| 00:14.06 | Murielle | yes..for welcoming this new page we could do something special |
| 00:14.33 | Murielle | for instance...why not release a 2.0.18 with trepan patch? |
| 00:14.46 | JeffM2501 | teach the developer the difference between a production and dev site? |
| 00:16.01 | blast007 | JeffM2501: the old site, or the new one? |
| 00:16.33 | JeffM2501 | the one that's spewing it's queries all over the place ;) |
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| 00:26.54 | a_meteorite | Hmmmm, GU's site has been like that for a week or so I think |
| 00:26.59 | a_meteorite | GU asleep at the wheel? |
| 00:27.04 | JeffM2501 | for a long time |
| 00:27.08 | JeffM2501 | that's the "old" one it seems |
| 00:27.12 | JeffM2501 | there is a new one elsewere |
| 00:27.18 | a_meteorite | hmm, dunno where |
| 00:27.27 | JeffM2501 | then you don't read much ;) |
| 00:27.58 | a_meteorite | their wiki page still has links to the "old" one :) |
| 00:28.11 | JeffM2501 | the new one is very new |
| 00:30.50 | Murielle | does the client know his lag? |
| 00:33.24 | JeffM2501 | the server tracks lag and can display it to the client |
| 00:34.16 | Murielle | but the client does not know? |
| 00:34.31 | JeffM2501 | no the client does not track the lag of other players |
| 00:34.56 | Murielle | in the packet, is there a time ? |
| 00:34.58 | JeffM2501 | as for the client's own lag, it may know the latency to the server |
| 00:35.06 | JeffM2501 | it is unused in branch |
| 00:35.14 | JeffM2501 | it is/was used in trunk |
| 00:35.48 | JeffM2501 | trunk keeps a clock that is synced with the server |
| 00:35.49 | Murielle | but, in udp protocol, the packet embed time? |
| 00:35.53 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 00:36.00 | JeffM2501 | UDP is connectionless |
| 00:36.14 | JeffM2501 | blind packet dump, dosn't even support retransmit |
| 00:36.23 | Murielle | so wecant know the time they were sent? |
| 00:36.45 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 00:36.51 | JeffM2501 | not in 2.0.x |
| 00:37.02 | blast007 | a_meteorite: guleague.org |
| 00:37.02 | JeffM2501 | that was added in 3 |
| 00:37.15 | a_meteorite | blast007: yeah, found it by looking in GU forums on BZBB |
| 00:37.20 | blast007 | k |
| 00:37.28 | a_meteorite | I like how it has me down as registering in 2006 |
| 00:37.38 | a_meteorite | very nice since my profile got deleted for being inactive |
| 00:38.06 | Murielle | but the client can know the time he spends in a gam eloop? |
| 00:38.08 | a_meteorite | and the BZBB login |
| 00:38.09 | blast007 | I don't know if profiles actually get deleted or if they just get marked as such |
| 00:38.10 | Murielle | game loop* |
| 00:38.21 | JeffM2501 | Murielle, sure but it's not useful for lag compensation |
| 00:38.26 | a_meteorite | blast007: likely just inactivated by a flag |
| 00:38.29 | blast007 | a_meteorite: they're using new software, not web-league |
| 00:38.39 | Murielle | but i want to jit kill |
| 00:38.44 | a_meteorite | custom software or is it open sourced? |
| 00:38.50 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 00:38.59 | blast007 | a_meteorite: yes |
| 00:39.04 | a_meteorite | blast007: lol |
| 00:39.19 | JeffM2501 | it is open source custom software |
| 00:39.26 | Murielle | i want to fix the time the client spends in a loop |
| 00:39.29 | a_meteorite | proprietary or open source? :P |
| 00:39.30 | JeffM2501 | your 2 things were not mutualy exclisive |
| 00:39.39 | JeffM2501 | Murielle, fix? |
| 00:39.41 | a_meteorite | yeah, after I hit enter I saw that |
| 00:39.49 | JeffM2501 | you mean make it the same time every frame? |
| 00:39.56 | Murielle | yes |
| 00:40.01 | JeffM2501 | use the frame limiter |
| 00:40.16 | JeffM2501 | set it to 60 or something |
| 00:40.29 | JeffM2501 | jutter isn't just from the game loop, unless your FPS is very low |
| 00:40.33 | a_meteorite | blast007: you know the name of the league software if it's open source then? |
| 00:40.45 | blast007 | no |
| 00:40.48 | a_meteorite | k |
| 00:40.52 | blast007 | there's an SVN repo somewhere |
| 00:40.52 | Murielle | i have wifi and I have jit spikes |
| 00:40.54 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, "the gu site software" |
| 00:40.55 | blast007 | on brad's server |
| 00:41.07 | JeffM2501 | Murielle, then fps won't change that |
| 00:41.14 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: yeah, that uh.. is such a great name |
| 00:41.22 | JeffM2501 | the jitter is added afeter it leaves your computers |
| 00:41.24 | blast007 | Murielle: have you plugged in a cable yet to see if it is the wifi? |
| 00:41.26 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, so |
| 00:41.38 | JeffM2501 | read the fourms ts had a post about where it was |
| 00:41.38 | a_meteorite | very generic :) |
| 00:41.41 | JeffM2501 | so? |
| 00:41.45 | Murielle | yes..with a cablejit is nomore than 2 |
| 00:41.47 | JeffM2501 | it's software made for the leauge |
| 00:41.53 | JeffM2501 | Murielle, then use the cable |
| 00:41.57 | Murielle | i cant |
| 00:42.04 | blast007 | Murielle: so why the hell are you trying to fix the client? |
| 00:42.07 | JeffM2501 | then don't complain about jitter |
| 00:42.08 | blast007 | the client isn't at fault |
| 00:42.13 | Murielle | box is in kitchen |
| 00:42.16 | JeffM2501 | you can't wish problems away |
| 00:42.16 | blast007 | your crappy wifi is |
| 00:42.18 | a_meteorite | the so part is I can imagine when I go to google what it'll spit out for GU Site Software |
| 00:42.28 | blast007 | a_meteorite: nothing? |
| 00:42.34 | blast007 | there isn't a project page for it |
| 00:42.41 | JeffM2501 | probably not a_meteorite it's not well published |
| 00:42.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah read the forums or talk to TS |
| 00:42.59 | JeffM2501 | it's not made to be reused right now IIRC |
| 00:43.01 | blast007 | there *is* a public repo somewhere |
| 00:43.06 | blast007 | but that's it, afaik |
| 00:43.07 | Murielle | how do you dare to call my wifi "crapy"!!!! |
| 00:43.17 | JeffM2501 | Murielle, easy it IS, you proved it |
| 00:43.23 | JeffM2501 | change channels on it, that may help |
| 00:43.37 | Murielle | i changed but...same |
| 00:43.48 | JeffM2501 | then it's crappy wifi |
| 00:43.51 | blast007 | cuts the wires on Murielle's wifi card antennas |
| 00:43.55 | JeffM2501 | the client can't magicaly make your network better |
| 00:44.06 | Murielle | there is no antena |
| 00:44.13 | JeffM2501 | then that is probably the problem |
| 00:44.16 | blast007 | yes, there is |
| 00:44.19 | JeffM2501 | and why it is crappy wifi |
| 00:44.27 | JeffM2501 | internal antenas suck |
| 00:44.37 | blast007 | I'm talking about on her laptop |
| 00:44.42 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 00:44.51 | blast007 | internal card, more than likely |
| 00:44.57 | JeffM2501 | throw a cantena on the router and the internal antena will work better |
| 00:45.02 | a_meteorite | (But I dunno what it'll really spit out cuz I'm waiting for my browser to unfreeze >_< ) |
| 00:45.02 | a_meteorite | yeah, figured so. |
| 00:45.02 | a_meteorite | Murielle: wifi is not usually nice on games |
| 00:45.02 | Murielle | intel 5300AGN |
| 00:45.16 | blast007 | Murielle: and you're using wireless G? |
| 00:45.25 | Murielle | dunno |
| 00:46.37 | JeffM2501 | heh, you don't even know the real problem yet you want to somehow change the client to fix it? |
| 00:46.38 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 00:46.55 | Murielle | yeah.i am crazy:D |
| 00:47.23 | blast007 | s/cr/l/ |
| 00:47.37 | JeffM2501 | no just somone who dosn't think a problem through and jumps to a concolusion |
| 00:48.25 | blast007 | well, that. and lazy. |
| 00:48.45 | JeffM2501 | ohh yeah thanks, forgot that |
| 00:48.58 | JeffM2501 | is glad that blast007 always has is back |
| 00:49.12 | Murielle | and you forget I am "cursing" too:p |
| 00:49.22 | blast007 | who is is and why do I have his spine? |
| 00:49.42 | JeffM2501 | you only did it that one time |
| 00:49.52 | JeffM2501 | and that's possible that you just didn't know the specific rules for her |
| 00:49.54 | JeffM2501 | here |
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| 00:55.49 | Murielle | so?when will it be ready, blast007? |
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| 00:56.30 | blast007 | Murielle: when will what be ready? your wifi? probably never |
| 00:57.37 | Murielle | no |
| 00:57.46 | Murielle | i am serious |
| 00:57.50 | Murielle | be serious |
| 00:57.56 | blast007 | Murielle: oh no |
| 00:58.02 | Murielle | i am talking about the patched client |
| 00:58.02 | blast007 | you're serious |
| 00:58.19 | Murielle | could u build it for tomorrow? |
| 00:58.22 | Murielle | please |
| 00:58.24 | Murielle | :) |
| 00:58.28 | blast007 | no. tomorrow I have plans. |
| 00:58.31 | blast007 | I'm going to sleep in |
| 00:58.47 | Murielle | so for tonight |
| 00:59.19 | Murielle | anyway, I can accept (because u are usally nice) to wait until monday |
| 00:59.29 | Murielle | ok? |
| 00:59.35 | Murielle | monday is a good date |
| 00:59.37 | Murielle | :) |
| 00:59.44 | JeffM2501 | Murielle, this is getting old fast. I recomend you stop |
| 00:59.48 | JeffM2501 | it's not funny anymore |
| 01:00.14 | Murielle | you two lazy devs |
| 01:00.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o blast007] by ChanServ |
| 01:00.35 | JeffM2501 | you lazy player |
| 01:00.43 | JeffM2501 | yeah see it's about time for you to stop... seriously |
| 01:00.51 | JeffM2501 | we don't want to build it, RESPECT our choice |
| 01:01.01 | Murielle | ok |
| 01:01.06 | Murielle | i stop |
| 01:01.23 | Murielle | blast007 can -o |
| 01:01.28 | JeffM2501 | do you understand why I thought you were 12? |
| 01:01.30 | JeffM2501 | we both can |
| 01:01.35 | JeffM2501 | LOTS of people here can |
| 01:01.42 | blast007 | nah, I'll wear my @ for a bit |
| 01:01.48 | blast007 | it keeps my head warm |
| 01:02.06 | blast007 | mmm, banhammer |
| 01:02.09 | JeffM2501 | he is the only project admin that seems to care about the project at all |
| 01:02.25 | Murielle | yeah..one more ban wil not kill me :p |
| 01:02.37 | JeffM2501 | your maintainer is MIA, your service host dosn't care... |
| 01:03.20 | blast007 | Murielle: I can kinda access more than one ban system ;) |
| 01:03.38 | JeffM2501 | the big ones |
| 01:03.45 | Murielle | bah.... |
| 01:03.54 | JeffM2501 | like the one that would make you not able to see any games |
| 01:03.57 | JeffM2501 | or authenticate |
| 01:04.19 | Murielle | iwould play non authentificated, then..not a big deal:p |
| 01:04.26 | JeffM2501 | you've been provided with more then enough info, and a dev has been more then kind in implementing your request |
| 01:04.40 | JeffM2501 | so the fact that you call us lazy Is just downright rude |
| 01:05.03 | Murielle | sorry if i hurt you |
| 01:05.16 | JeffM2501 | you didn't hurt, you just anoyed the living heck out of |
| 01:05.22 | Murielle | i do not know my word strength.... |
| 01:05.34 | JeffM2501 | the project may be a game but you can't treat people like they are one too |
| 01:05.42 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:06.10 | Murielle | do not see the purposeof the last sentence |
| 01:06.19 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure you don't |
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| 01:20.48 | echelon | how do i find out why bzflag is locking up the kernel? |
| 01:21.25 | Constitution | what OS? |
| 01:22.18 | JeffM2501 | probabably because of tor |
| 01:25.03 | echelon | JeffM2501, tor? O_o |
| 01:25.16 | echelon | i'm not using tor with bzflag |
| 01:25.24 | JeffM2501 | that's good |
| 01:25.42 | JeffM2501 | it's probably video driver then |
| 01:25.47 | JeffM2501 | what card do you hav? |
| 01:25.52 | echelon | Constitution, slackware, kernel 2.6.29.6 |
| 01:26.00 | a_meteorite | echelon: hey, I know you... ##politico |
| 01:26.11 | echelon | :D |
| 01:26.28 | a_meteorite | didn't know you played BZ |
| 01:26.59 | echelon | JeffM2501, 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03) |
| 01:27.06 | echelon | :] |
| 01:27.18 | JeffM2501 | yep.. there ya go |
| 01:27.30 | JeffM2501 | see if there are newer drivers for it |
| 01:27.34 | echelon | wat :/ |
| 01:27.37 | echelon | oh |
| 01:27.48 | JeffM2501 | worlds worst "modern" chipset |
| 01:28.00 | echelon | heh |
| 01:28.13 | JeffM2501 | and a notoriously buggy GL implementation |
| 01:28.41 | JeffM2501 | that's why apple has to tweak the crud out of the drivers before they use them on machines with intel chipsets |
| 01:29.37 | echelon | k, i'm 3 versions behind |
| 01:30.23 | JeffM2501 | or install windows, somtimes intel updates those drivers more then the open source onces |
| 01:31.04 | echelon | :/ |
| 01:31.27 | JeffM2501 | sounds like a laptop so you probably can't get a real chipset |
| 01:31.38 | echelon | yeah -_- |
| 01:32.00 | echelon | i'll chuck it soon, but i don't have any money atm |
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| 01:32.15 | blast007 | the 945 should be able to handle bzflag though. |
| 01:32.18 | blast007 | at least, in windows |
| 01:32.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o blast007] by blast007 |
| 01:32.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah it has the power it just needs non buggy drivers |
| 01:32.36 | JeffM2501 | bz can't realy kill the kernel |
| 01:32.41 | JeffM2501 | the kernel prevets that |
| 01:32.47 | JeffM2501 | so it has to be a driver of some kind |
| 01:32.48 | echelon | most times it can, just at random times it freezes up everything |
| 01:32.51 | JeffM2501 | since they run lower |
| 01:33.00 | blast007 | no, bzflag can't - you driver can |
| 01:33.03 | blast007 | your* |
| 01:33.11 | echelon | yeah |
| 01:33.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah it's not bz, it's your driver |
| 01:33.24 | blast007 | we're not calling gl_crashsystem(); |
| 01:33.37 | JeffM2501 | it just can't do what we ask |
| 01:34.09 | JeffM2501 | no GL call is ever suposed to crash |
| 01:34.30 | JeffM2501 | a compliant GL interface is suposed to just give an error code and at most stop the calling application |
| 01:34.57 | blast007 | are the intel drivers part of the kernel, or part of Xorg? |
| 01:35.19 | blast007 | (or both..?) |
| 01:37.15 | blast007 | guess it is part of Xorg for sure |
| 01:37.18 | blast007 | http://intellinuxgraphics.org/ |
| 01:41.13 | blast007 | lol at one of the questions at http://intellinuxgraphics.org/documentation.html - there is one where someone is asking about a PCI-E solution from Intel. Why, even if they existed, would anyone go to a store and say "Hey, look, an Intel Graphics Card! With PCI EXPRESS! I'm SOOOO gonna play Minesweeper after I pop this baby in!!" |
| 01:47.10 | echelon | lol |
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| 02:17.11 | echelon | hey marzipants |
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| 04:54.23 | Bambino | trepan: about your mousebox mod... |
| 04:54.55 | Bambino | I have bind w down "mousebox 30" and bind d down "mousebox -20" |
| 04:55.06 | Bambino | I've tried to get it to do this: |
| 04:55.27 | Bambino | bind W down "toggle mousebox 30 -20" |
| 04:55.49 | Bambino | it doesn't seem to work...do you know if it *can* work via a toggle like that? |
| 04:56.01 | trepan | probably not |
| 04:56.21 | Bambino | hmm, that sucks... |
| 04:56.36 | Bambino | I have this also... |
| 04:56.44 | trepan | feel free to post a patch that adds a second (cycling) argument to the mousebox command |
| 04:57.05 | Bambino | yeah....when I learn C++ I'll do that... |
| 04:57.31 | trepan | ok |
| 04:57.49 | Bambino | I bet it's a simple thing too... |
| 04:58.23 | Bambino | bind A down "toggle radarStyle 2 3" |
| 04:58.30 | Bambino | that works fine... |
| 04:58.58 | trepan | that's because the mousebox size is an odd creature |
| 04:59.11 | trepan | not a plain BZDB variable control (as it should be, but alas...) |
| 05:00.31 | Bambino | okay |
| 05:00.39 | Bambino | was hoping for a simple fix |
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| 05:13.31 | Packman | would it be considered bad for any reason if 3.0 allowed everyone to see other tank's orientation? |
| 05:15.56 | Constitution | Packman: I consider it part of the game now that the radar doesn't show you all that info... it would be a definite gameplay change |
| 05:16.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah that isn't part of the "design" |
| 05:16.20 | JeffM2501 | otherwise you just have a 2d game |
| 05:16.38 | Packman | lol i just asked you the same question on bzbattleground const |
| 05:17.18 | Constitution | shhh... nobody's supposed to know that any of the developers play the game |
| 05:17.18 | Packman | wouldn't the 'lag compensation tank prediction' have some extent of exposing such information? |
| 05:17.37 | JeffM2501 | the info is shown in the 3d view, just not on radar |
| 05:17.40 | JeffM2501 | that is by design |
| 05:18.38 | Packman | if i heard correctly from others, the lag compensation is to draw a predicted tank location correct? |
| 05:18.47 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 05:18.52 | JeffM2501 | it puts the tank where it is |
| 05:18.55 | JeffM2501 | not a marker or anything |
| 05:19.04 | JeffM2501 | but that's out of v3 |
| 05:19.06 | JeffM2501 | it's disabled |
| 05:19.18 | JeffM2501 | it was a simple linear plot |
| 05:19.56 | Packman | how do you mean "puts the tank where it is" - wouldn't that be what we have now? |
| 05:20.25 | JeffM2501 | no now we hav where the tank was |
| 05:21.13 | JeffM2501 | it is shown where it was when the packet was sent, not where it is now |
| 05:21.19 | JeffM2501 | that's why you have to lead for lag |
| 05:21.38 | Packman | but it's impossible to know at live time |
| 05:21.56 | JeffM2501 | you can guess with in an accurate enough margin |
| 05:22.00 | JeffM2501 | that's what most games do |
| 05:23.19 | Packman | if you have a player shifting forwards and backwards constantly, won't the error be noticeable? |
| 05:23.31 | JeffM2501 | if there lag is that high yeah |
| 05:23.33 | Packman | it might seem as if they travel at least 2 times as fast |
| 05:23.36 | JeffM2501 | but that's better then missing them all the time ;) |
| 05:24.29 | JeffM2501 | it's a closser postion then it is now |
| 05:24.31 | JeffM2501 | bassicly |
| 05:24.55 | Packman | let's say a tank is hiding behind a small pyramid, but large enough to cover its whole view. If you have more than 200 lag its facing angle will be exposed? |
| 05:25.03 | Constitution | will probably miss them all the time anyway |
| 05:25.06 | Packman | as long as it moves |
| 05:25.34 | JeffM2501 | depends on your jitter |
| 05:25.37 | JeffM2501 | but it dosn't matter |
| 05:25.41 | JeffM2501 | it was taken OUT of v3 |
| 05:25.56 | Packman | ok. I suppose nothing will be in its place either? |
| 05:26.04 | JeffM2501 | nothing has been done yet |
| 05:26.36 | AAA_awright | I'm confused as to what the problem is |
| 05:27.09 | Packman | will there be an observer feature for collision detection, like the one right now, but taking into account lag? |
| 05:27.49 | JeffM2501 | the problem is that it's up to the player to compensate for lag, the game assumes that when a packet gets in it is time accurate and it is not |
| 05:27.57 | JeffM2501 | Packman, no |
| 05:28.20 | Packman | so out of curiosity, what is the derived benefit of timestamps in 3.0? |
| 05:28.28 | JeffM2501 | the goal was to do lag comp |
| 05:28.31 | JeffM2501 | but it was removed |
| 05:29.55 | JeffM2501 | bzflag's DR code is not robust enough to support lag compensation bassicly |
| 05:30.56 | Packman | ok thanks |
| 05:34.49 | JeffM2501 | V3 isn't much more then fancy client stuff |
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| 06:51.42 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03Bullet Catcher 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7160 10/w/GU_League: new league web site URLs, update official servers list |
| 06:54.57 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03Bullet Catcher 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7161 10/w/Category:Leagues: /* [[GU League]] */ new web site URL, fix IRC channel name |
| 07:04.25 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 03Bullet Catcher 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7162 10/w/BZFlag_on_IRC: /* Other projects and unofficial channels */ new GU league URLs |
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| 09:00.06 | strayer | holla |
| 09:54.16 | Constitution | hi strayer |
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| 13:21.59 | ts | joevano: ping |
| 14:18.39 | joevano | ts pong |
| 14:19.37 | CIA-35 | BZFlag: 0398.111.223.193 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7163 10/w/Server_Variables: boxheight |
| 14:20.46 | ts | joevano: can you do a bzbb group for me? |
| 14:21.51 | ts | wanna have GU-LEAGUE.REFEREE with same leaders like in GU.LEAGUE |
| 14:23.47 | joevano | sure give me a sec |
| 14:32.28 | ts | sure |
| 14:33.15 | blast007 | ts: also, you should just request it like everyone else |
| 14:33.32 | blast007 | there's a forum thread for that |
| 14:33.52 | ts | Hmm, okay, I will search and post there |
| 14:33.53 | joevano | ts: group created... what about permissions to the private forum? |
| 14:34.01 | ts | no forum |
| 14:34.08 | joevano | cool done then |
| 14:34.19 | ts | thanks |
| 14:34.27 | ts | Should I post in the forum for reference? |
| 14:34.54 | blast007 | sure |
| 14:35.18 | blast007 | might come in handy for when we migrate to a new group management system |
| 14:35.29 | blast007 | for cases when they are conversion issues |
| 14:35.32 | blast007 | there* |
| 14:35.41 | ts | hmm, can't find the group |
| 14:46.19 | blast007 | ts: post the request and I'll look into it: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=16016 |
| 14:46.37 | blast007 | and include what you want done with the leaders for that group too |
| 14:47.26 | blast007 | nvm, guess you did since I loaded the page |
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| 14:58.37 | blast007 | ts: there, check now |
| 14:58.52 | blast007 | I left menotume off, if that's okay ;) |
| 15:00.00 | blast007 | and I did make it with an S at the end |
| 15:00.07 | blast007 | make it have an* |
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| 17:27.11 | temporalD | trepan: bzbattleground.com crashed? |
| 17:32.39 | trepan | seems so |
| 17:32.46 | trepan | ahs3 has it restarted |
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| 18:26.43 | ts | blast007: tnx |
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