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| 16:04.15 | Constitution | sighs at the multitude of months he's spent learning how to duplicate the functionality of one gluPerspective() call in a vertex shader |
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| 16:32.52 | JefferyM | brlcad, the credit card that was tied to the bzflag.org paypal account is about to expire and I don't plan on renewing it. |
| 16:33.05 | JefferyM | what do you want to do with all that money? |
| 16:37.08 | JefferyM | We can have paypal cut you a check if you want to put it with the other moeny |
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| 20:53.59 | mrapple | does anyone know who was working on the plugin for the "capture the one flag" thingy |
| 21:06.01 | temporalD | that's the HTF - Hold The Flag - stuff ? |
| 21:07.39 | JefferyM | there is a plugin/map crap for that IIRC |
| 21:09.31 | mrapple | no its not holdtheflag is a soccer type thing. i cant remember who was making the plugin though |
| 21:09.49 | JefferyM | HTF involves multiple bases and one flag |
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| 21:10.25 | JefferyM | it may not work exactly like what you are thinking of, but it is traditionaly known as the "capture a single flag" thing |
| 21:10.54 | mrapple | I know what HTF is but there was a different plugin in development |
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| 21:44.49 | Murielle | i do not think they use any plugin for capture the one flag |
| 21:46.42 | Murielle | mrapple: what would do this plugin, btw? |
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| 21:48.23 | JefferyM | it makes your CD drive spit out a kitten |
| 21:48.48 | mrapple | Murielle: uhm im not sure. sounded like it was going to do alot of things ;p |
| 21:49.12 | Murielle | where have u heard this? |
| 21:49.30 | mrapple | ahs3 was telling me someone was making a plugin for it |
| 21:49.43 | Murielle | are talking about the bzworld cup "capture the one flag" ? |
| 21:49.50 | mrapple | yes |
| 21:49.58 | Murielle | they do not need plugin |
| 21:50.05 | Murielle | just a tiny flag |
| 21:50.23 | mrapple | i cant remember why but there was some reason for one |
| 21:50.29 | mrapple | ill just talk to ahs next time i see him |
| 21:50.55 | Murielle | for my info: what is interesting you in this plugin since you are asking about it? |
| 21:51.16 | mrapple | i was curious who was developing it so I could ask them what features they were adding |
| 21:52.21 | Murielle | you could post to their forum: http://www.2teamleague.net/index.php?link=bzforums |
| 21:53.01 | Murielle | or ask to zaphod or Rex who are the guys in charge of this event |
| 21:53.15 | mrapple | yeah ok thanks |
| 21:55.56 | mrapple | Murielle: did you modify the bzfworldcup site? |
| 21:56.39 | Murielle | it is an old release of thewebleague..why ? |
| 21:57.53 | Murielle | and when will we see league connect? i fell time is long |
| 21:58.01 | Murielle | feel* |
| 21:58.29 | mrapple | well most of the league connect code is there |
| 21:58.39 | mrapple | just needs to be migrated to codeigniter |
| 21:58.48 | Murielle | when? |
| 21:59.15 | mrapple | when what? |
| 21:59.26 | Murielle | when will you migrate the code |
| 21:59.33 | mrapple | its in the process right now |
| 21:59.52 | mrapple | could defintly use some help ;) |
| 21:59.53 | Murielle | and...could we see the league connect with its code |
| 22:00.10 | mrapple | the source? |
| 22:00.12 | Murielle | since the code is there |
| 22:00.15 | Murielle | no |
| 22:00.22 | mrapple | in action? |
| 22:00.33 | Murielle | you say you are migrating a code...can we see that code? |
| 22:00.50 | mrapple | http://code.google.com/p/leagueconnect/source/browse/#svn/trunk/old |
| 22:01.06 | mrapple | some pages werent in the best shape, some features missing |
| 22:01.19 | mrapple | but alot of it is there. just need to FULLY move over to codeigniter |
| 22:02.57 | Murielle | why are u moving to codeigniter? |
| 22:03.10 | mrapple | mostly for support PDO |
| 22:03.11 | Murielle | since you have already a website |
| 22:03.17 | mrapple | its also faster, quicker, and neater code |
| 22:03.33 | mrapple | and i need to get more farmiliar with the MVC approach to coding. i think this will help ;) |
| 22:03.47 | Murielle | ic |
| 22:04.09 | Murielle | when do you plan to deliver the migrated league connect? |
| 22:04.16 | mrapple | eh |
| 22:04.24 | mrapple | roughly done by end of august |
| 22:04.28 | mrapple | releasable by end of sept |
| 22:04.34 | Murielle | soon |
| 22:04.40 | mrapple | yeah soonish i guess |
| 22:04.47 | Murielle | that is fine |
| 22:04.56 | mrapple | although right now my family is moving houses. so it might take longer then im hoping |
| 22:05.07 | Murielle | are u alone? |
| 22:05.12 | Murielle | on the project |
| 22:06.18 | mrapple | no |
| 22:06.39 | mrapple | yassen is probably the only reason its where its at now ;) |
| 22:07.26 | mrapple | im new to the whole codeignter thing so hes guiding me through it. ive also been pretty busy lately |
| 22:07.46 | Murielle | courage |
| 22:09.28 | Murielle | question: I see there is another project for a league website with ts. why are not you working together? we had 1 webleague and soon we will have tons of website for the leagues.. |
| 22:11.14 | mrapple | yeah im not sure whats up with ts -_- |
| 22:11.32 | mrapple | ive tried to talk to him and such but really imho the code he wrote isnt that great |
| 22:11.55 | mrapple | would need to rewrite a ton of his code and i dont think its really worth it |
| 22:12.46 | Murielle | finally..i just wonder if bzleague really needs new website.....:p |
| 22:13.16 | mrapple | ..... |
| 22:13.23 | mrapple | the code in webleague is simple awful |
| 22:13.26 | mrapple | simply* |
| 22:13.28 | Murielle | and so? |
| 22:13.37 | mrapple | its about time for an overhaul |
| 22:13.55 | JefferyM | it was not designed with modern practices or security in mind |
| 22:14.03 | JefferyM | exactly like bzflag ;) |
| 22:14.09 | Yassen | heh |
| 22:14.15 | Murielle | but nobody is attacking these bzleague |
| 22:14.22 | JefferyM | a few people have |
| 22:14.35 | JefferyM | blast007 has worked on finding a lot of them in the past |
| 22:14.45 | JefferyM | but it's like patching a leaky dam |
| 22:15.12 | Murielle | but.... i just wonder if it worth it |
| 22:15.15 | mrapple | good metaphor. eventually you just have to build a new one out of cement |
| 22:15.18 | JefferyM | dunno |
| 22:15.31 | mrapple | true bzflag is heading toward the graveyard |
| 22:15.40 | JefferyM | I don't think that we should have a seperate website for each leauge, but leauge features in a common social site |
| 22:15.48 | mrapple | hmmm |
| 22:15.52 | JefferyM | that'd be simpler to maintain IMHO |
| 22:16.01 | JefferyM | and have a wider developer base |
| 22:16.02 | mrapple | and nicer for the players |
| 22:16.13 | JefferyM | yes it would offer more services then just leauge |
| 22:16.19 | JefferyM | it could work with any group |
| 22:16.27 | JefferyM | and do fiend finding and stats |
| 22:16.37 | JefferyM | friend even |
| 22:16.41 | mrapple | the entire bzflag web db needs to be rewriten |
| 22:16.48 | blast007 | and a single player-to-player messaging system |
| 22:17.00 | JefferyM | web db? |
| 22:17.06 | JefferyM | you mean the main site? |
| 22:17.14 | blast007 | he probably means everything |
| 22:17.14 | mrapple | my.bzflag.org |
| 22:17.20 | mrapple | web services in general |
| 22:17.20 | JefferyM | that's the stats system |
| 22:17.21 | Murielle | why dont you add such a feature in bzbb |
| 22:17.36 | blast007 | Murielle: because I want to avoid modding phpbb all the heck |
| 22:17.37 | JefferyM | yes I think stats should be integrated into the social system |
| 22:17.37 | mrapple | Murielle: trying to move away from phpBB |
| 22:17.56 | JefferyM | tho stats have nothing to do with phpbb ;) |
| 22:18.02 | Murielle | why moving away from phpbb ? |
| 22:18.09 | blast007 | not moving away from phpbb |
| 22:18.17 | blast007 | moving auth and groups out of phpbb |
| 22:18.21 | JefferyM | we are taking auth out of phpbb |
| 22:18.22 | mrapple | well yes |
| 22:18.24 | blast007 | so that we aren't tied to that for everything |
| 22:18.28 | JefferyM | it can't be made redundant |
| 22:18.46 | JefferyM | bzauth is all setup to use ldap |
| 22:18.46 | blast007 | that, and it's a beast to get set up if someone wants to run their own list |
| 22:18.51 | JefferyM | and the services can be moved over to it |
| 22:18.55 | JefferyM | but we need a group manager |
| 22:18.57 | JefferyM | and a user manager |
| 22:19.02 | JefferyM | then it should be good to go live |
| 22:19.08 | JefferyM | or at least into liveish testing |
| 22:19.31 | blast007 | isn't totally sold on bzauthd yet |
| 22:19.35 | blast007 | LDAP, sure |
| 22:19.42 | JefferyM | yeah me too |
| 22:19.54 | JefferyM | now that I know more about ldap, it seems bzauthd is more complex then it needs to be |
| 22:19.56 | blast007 | I think PHP could still be a reasonable language to use |
| 22:20.07 | JefferyM | if done correctly |
| 22:20.19 | JefferyM | I don't think the problems in the list server were profiled properly |
| 22:20.22 | blast007 | the main thing will be if it can handle all of the LDAP functions we need |
| 22:20.32 | blast007 | well, there's a lot we can do to make stuff faster |
| 22:20.37 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:20.50 | JefferyM | someone(tm) just has to do it |
| 22:20.52 | blast007 | APC can cache the opcode for PHP scripts in RAM |
| 22:21.06 | JefferyM | I don't think it's php execution time |
| 22:21.14 | blast007 | if we stop using phpbb for auth, then we don't need to load 3MB of PHP files every time someone hits the list |
| 22:21.15 | JefferyM | I think it's all database and "other" stuff on the machine |
| 22:21.17 | blast007 | etc |
| 22:21.28 | JefferyM | but yeah that load does suck |
| 22:21.42 | JefferyM | gets to do some ldap auth stuff for work next month |
| 22:21.54 | blast007 | and once the irssi issue gets resolved, we'll have some spare RAM |
| 22:22.00 | JefferyM | heh |
| 22:22.10 | JefferyM | so 2028 when her kids are grown up? |
| 22:22.20 | Murielle | ldap auth can be done remotely? |
| 22:22.40 | JefferyM | the client dosn't use ldap, the list server would |
| 22:22.41 | blast007 | Murielle: clients and services wouldn't necessarily do LDAP auth directly |
| 22:22.53 | JefferyM | they would have similar interface to what they have now |
| 22:23.00 | JefferyM | it could just be spread over multiple servers |
| 22:23.19 | JefferyM | so if one was done it would fallover to another |
| 22:23.31 | Murielle | interesting |
| 22:23.33 | JefferyM | and they would access an ldap system that was spanned over serveral auth servers |
| 22:23.40 | JefferyM | so we don't have a single point of failure |
| 22:23.46 | JefferyM | that was the goal at least |
| 22:23.55 | JefferyM | I'm not sure if bzauthd does that |
| 22:24.01 | JefferyM | but that was the inital idea |
| 22:24.17 | blast007 | yeah, I still consider bzauthd a proof of concept |
| 22:24.49 | JefferyM | and since LDAP is a standard auth system, many of the third party website systems we use can be changed to use it (phpbb, media wiki, drupal) |
| 22:25.00 | blast007 | some better than others |
| 22:25.03 | JefferyM | this way we can decouple auth from services |
| 22:25.06 | JefferyM | true |
| 22:25.26 | JefferyM | right now if we even upgrade phpbb we run a risk of breaking the auth system |
| 22:25.31 | JefferyM | and we have to test every update |
| 22:25.59 | blast007 | I was almost thinking of *not* integrating those systems and instead just having some minimal mod to each service that opens a secure API to change passwords and profile info |
| 22:26.19 | JefferyM | I would almost like there to be a seperate user manager |
| 22:26.21 | blast007 | those systems with LDAP* |
| 22:26.29 | JefferyM | and not let the serives that use ldap manage the account at all |
| 22:26.32 | JefferyM | just have them do auth |
| 22:26.35 | JefferyM | not edit |
| 22:26.45 | JefferyM | then integrate user management with the group manager |
| 22:26.50 | JefferyM | cus that has to be custom no mater what |
| 22:26.52 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Web_Services/Player_Portal |
| 22:27.18 | JefferyM | cool when will it be done? ;) |
| 22:28.07 | blast007 | hmm, this calculation is taking a while. |
| 22:28.12 | blast007 | let's just say, "not soon" |
| 22:28.19 | blast007 | ;) |
| 22:28.26 | JefferyM | at the same time IRCD is fixed then |
| 22:28.34 | JefferyM | or when we can spend paypal money |
| 22:28.39 | blast007 | heh |
| 22:28.46 | Murielle | will therebean api for this? |
| 22:28.56 | Murielle | will there be an api for this? |
| 22:28.57 | JefferyM | API for what? |
| 22:28.57 | blast007 | Murielle: for what? |
| 22:29.06 | Murielle | for player_portal |
| 22:29.06 | JefferyM | weblogin will continue to work |
| 22:29.13 | JefferyM | that's the only auth that we should provide |
| 22:29.24 | blast007 | Murielle: what would the API do..? |
| 22:29.34 | JefferyM | other then that, it's private info, nothing another site should have access to |
| 22:29.39 | Murielle | manage the group etc... |
| 22:29.49 | JefferyM | why would a third party site want to do that? |
| 22:29.54 | JefferyM | why not use our site |
| 22:29.55 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Web_Services <-- there's an API section there |
| 22:30.01 | Murielle | to get infos |
| 22:30.07 | blast007 | JefferyM: well, I'd like to be able to manage groups remotely too ;) |
| 22:30.39 | blast007 | write a bzflag server hosting system, and then allow people to manage their groups from said system |
| 22:30.39 | JefferyM | have to come up with an auth key system then to ensure that only you can edit your groups |
| 22:30.58 | blast007 | http://oauth.net/ |
| 22:31.06 | JefferyM | however you can secure it |
| 22:31.07 | Murielle | ahhhyou see i do not sayalways stupid stuffs!!! |
| 22:31.13 | Murielle | :) |
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| 22:31.14 | JefferyM | but I'd be very leery about what you open up |
| 22:31.25 | JefferyM | stats should have an API that's for sure |
| 22:31.25 | blast007 | well, sure |
| 22:31.42 | JefferyM | but I'd not make it so you could read other group data |
| 22:31.51 | JefferyM | I can understand your own, but not others |
| 22:32.07 | blast007 | that's all I was planning on it being |
| 22:32.13 | JefferyM | then that makes sense |
| 22:32.13 | blast007 | it would be tied to the user's own rights |
| 22:32.23 | JefferyM | since it's for automation reasons |
| 22:32.58 | JefferyM | Murielle, never said you were wrong, just trying to understand the "why" and now I do :) |
| 22:33.06 | Murielle | :) |
| 22:33.30 | JefferyM | one has to be very careful with what types of info they expose to the public when working with user account databases |
| 22:33.47 | JefferyM | or you'll end up all facebooked |
| 22:33.49 | blast007 | pulls a facebook |
| 22:33.50 | blast007 | heh |
| 22:34.03 | JefferyM | yeah, there API exposes WAY too much |
| 22:35.33 | JefferyM | THere is a lot of work that can and should be done on the webservices, but it seems many of the people that want to do "web stuff" are just web designers, not web developers and spend more time on making a theme or graphics then thinking/working on the nuts and bolts of the backend |
| 22:36.02 | JefferyM | but it's realy important to get that backend to be solid since it integrates so much with the client and server for the game. |
| 22:36.08 | blast007 | yeah, I was planning on working on the code and then worrying about looks later |
| 22:36.20 | JefferyM | you are one of the few |
| 22:36.29 | JefferyM | this is why I wish our company could hire you :) |
| 22:36.34 | blast007 | it would be nice to share a common theme across all our web services, but that's something I don't plan to take on right now |
| 22:37.52 | JefferyM | it would be nice if the game had a consistent look across all it's own stuff ;) |
| 22:38.06 | blast007 | heh |
| 22:38.20 | JefferyM | or even conformed to bassic UI standards |
| 22:39.01 | JefferyM | mouse arrow of a big block of text that needs to be "hit" to be activated, yet no mater how many times I click options nothing happens |
| 22:39.09 | JefferyM | over not of |
| 22:44.57 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (~Joshua_Si@ip70-190-212-123.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:38.06 | delusional | I'm looking for an old map... obstacle course map that had an empty center, and all four sides had narrow "tubes" that contained the obstacles... it was used with the HTF plugin... |
| 23:38.42 | delusional | i really don't know how to explain it. |
| 23:39.55 | *** join/#bzflag McYukon (~McYukon@xplr-ts-v10-208-114-191-43.barrettxplore.com) |