| 00:00.10 | blast007 | yeah, it stores IPs for registration and posting and so on |
| 00:00.27 | AAA_awright | I would think it does, PHP already does |
| 00:01.41 | blast007 | I just don't want another phpBB hack to make it work |
| 00:01.52 | blast007 | trying to get down to a stock phpbb |
| 00:02.31 | temporalD | does IPv6 preclude the use of IPv4? |
| 00:02.48 | temporalD | (can you run both at the same time?) |
| 00:03.01 | blast007 | temporalD: you can, but you don't have to |
| 00:03.16 | blast007 | and as he said, he's running an IPv6-only server now |
| 00:03.21 | temporalD | mhmm |
| 00:03.40 | owenh | Technically it is dual-stack with only inbound ipv6 connectivity |
| 00:03.47 | owenh | I wish I had native ipv6, but no |
| 00:03.59 | temporalD | I got the impression that if bzflag didn't support IPv6 it would be dropped from the Debian release... |
| 00:04.08 | temporalD | (maybe I read too much into this) |
| 00:04.31 | owenh | Don't assume that from what I said. I don't know how Debian's policy will work for this. |
| 00:04.38 | temporalD | ok cool |
| 00:05.11 | owenh | However, I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. |
| 00:05.52 | owenh | You know, "internet of the future" and all... some of us would like to leave IPv4 behind... |
| 00:06.07 | blast007 | well, put it this way - IPv6 won't happen for 2.0.x anyway |
| 00:06.07 | trepan | ditto for the bzflag codebase ;) |
| 00:06.14 | blast007 | and probably not for 3.x |
| 00:06.35 | owenh | Why can't I find *any* mention of ipv6 on the wiki? |
| 00:06.53 | blast007 | on our wiki? cuz nobody has really pushed for it at all ;) |
| 00:06.57 | trepan | and at the current rate, 3.x won't happen; so ipv6 is a moot point |
| 00:09.20 | blast007 | owenh: even if IPv6 was cobbled into a 2.0.x release, it would be useless since I would imagine most of the people hosting servers do not have IPv6 |
| 00:09.32 | mrapple | owenh: bzflag is dying. by the time IPv6 is widely implemented, bzflag will be non existant |
| 00:12.33 | blast007 | it'll still exist.. it just might still exist as 2.0.16 ;) |
| 00:12.44 | owenh | I'm not pushing for ipv6 immediately. And I didn't realize bzflag was on the way out... |
| 00:12.44 | owenh | Although I did notice that release have been rare |
| 00:13.04 | mrapple | and there might be 20 people playing at a time, max. |
| 00:13.16 | blast007 | 200, not 20 |
| 00:13.32 | blast007 | owenh: version 3 has been in development for about 5 years. and we're at the alpha stage right now.. |
| 00:13.37 | mrapple | 20 people playing in the future |
| 00:13.42 | owenh | Hmm, what do they play instead? |
| 00:13.50 | blast007 | mrapple: ah |
| 00:13.55 | mrapple | i think we need better advertising. get the game known better |
| 00:14.03 | mrapple | just my opinon :) |
| 00:14.04 | blast007 | no, we need a better game |
| 00:14.07 | blast007 | THEN advertising |
| 00:14.12 | mrapple | heh |
| 00:14.20 | mrapple | without advertising the game will not grow and wont be better ;) |
| 00:14.24 | blast007 | money spent on advertising now would just be a waste |
| 00:14.34 | owenh | People who I show it to seem to like it. |
| 00:14.52 | jh` | better game?bzflag is really entertaining as it is to me |
| 00:15.04 | mrapple | jh`: to modern gamers the graphics suck |
| 00:15.18 | *** join/#bzflag murcianico (~murcianic@84.121.187.105.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 00:15.18 | mrapple | and unless you play for awhile and get good at a league like duc or gu, the game is no fun for you |
| 00:15.27 | blast007 | jh`: kids want fancy shaders and high res textures and stuff ;) |
| 00:15.45 | TASAIRES | Hi alls! Hello Manu |
| 00:15.45 | blast007 | bzflag's 15-year old code just can't compare |
| 00:15.53 | blast007 | heck, I think we still do our own sound mixing |
| 00:15.58 | mrapple | example, i showed like 20 friends at school the game. about 15 played for a week. 10 for a month. 5 played for 3 months, then theres only 1 who will play it ocaisionally |
| 00:16.12 | owenh | I saw bzflag work on an old pentium like 300MHZ or something once; other games can't say that |
| 00:16.14 | trepan | fwiw, the number of active players peaks at around 100 these days |
| 00:16.22 | jh` | easier said than done... |
| 00:16.30 | trepan | (when you discount all the lurking observers) |
| 00:16.37 | mrapple | heh |
| 00:16.51 | blast007 | owenh: doubt the current 2.0.x release would do that well |
| 00:17.05 | blast007 | at least not without a video card much more modern than that system |
| 00:17.06 | jh` | i dont care what kids want, bz is still very playable |
| 00:17.12 | owenh | Hmm, I think it was a 2.0.x release |
| 00:17.18 | owenh | Debian Etch probably |
| 00:17.22 | jh` | ppl just need to realize it |
| 00:17.26 | owenh | Maybe sarge |
| 00:17.29 | mrapple | jh`: if you want the game to stay a live, start caring ;D |
| 00:17.59 | blast007 | on my 1.6GHz laptop with an intel i855, I get around 40 to 80 FPS, usually closer to 40 |
| 00:18.02 | blast007 | and that's at 640x480 |
| 00:18.14 | trepan | mrapple: that's right, break out the care-bear-stare, that'll fix it ;) |
| 00:18.20 | blast007 | lol |
| 00:18.21 | owenh | blast007: yes, frame rate, resolution, and graphics were all rock-bottom |
| 00:18.22 | mrapple | heh |
| 00:18.27 | blast007 | owenh: ;) |
| 00:18.42 | owenh | But it worked! :) |
| 00:18.55 | blast007 | I ran a 1.10.x or 2.0.x release on an old 75MHz 486 with a 1MB graphics chip |
| 00:18.58 | blast007 | that was painful. |
| 00:19.01 | owenh | I was pleased because I never thought a 3d anything would work on it |
| 00:19.06 | jh` | well, im a league player |
| 00:19.29 | jh` | so obviosly for its very playable |
| 00:19.29 | blast007 | owenh: did it have a hardware accelerator? |
| 00:20.02 | owenh | Here's what I have: |
| 00:20.06 | trepan | and were you using the zbuffer, or bsp? |
| 00:20.06 | owenh | Trident Cyber9388 graphics controller with 2MB Embedded SDRAM video memory, accelerates MPEG-2, Direct3D(TM) and DirectDraw(TM) |
| 00:20.12 | blast007 | ack |
| 00:20.15 | owenh | What it had I mean |
| 00:20.21 | blast007 | yeah |
| 00:20.57 | blast007 | probably no opengl on there |
| 00:21.37 | owenh | That's all I know about it. I do remember I had some trouble getting video to work before I started using Debian |
| 00:22.19 | owenh | trepan, I'm not sure about zbuffer/bsp |
| 00:23.54 | jh` | what the hell are you ppl doing here anyway |
| 00:24.06 | TASAIRES | I play 2.0.x on windows with Directx9 Compatible Videocard, and play on linux "debian Family" with and without acceleration 3D by hardware. on Linux My PC AMD Sempron 3000+ (1800 MHz) CPU not run NIce without Acceleration by 3D by hardware! |
| 00:24.41 | TASAIRES | my PC is OLD, but not many! |
| 00:25.33 | blast007 | TASAIRES: BZFlag doesn't use Direct3D |
| 00:26.02 | blast007 | it only cares about an OpenGL compliant video card ;) |
| 00:26.27 | TASAIRES | and for me disable alls Extras Graphich on BZclient, is very bad play on LinuX with software acceleration |
| 00:26.36 | blast007 | what video card is that anyway? |
| 00:26.53 | blast007 | some onboard thing? |
| 00:27.53 | blast007 | this would tell you quick: lspci | grep VGA |
| 00:27.54 | TASAIRES | Now Shappire ATI Radeon 9550 with 128 MB |
| 00:28.04 | TASAIRES | AGP 8X |
| 00:28.05 | blast007 | hmm, that would have OpenGL acceleration |
| 00:28.11 | blast007 | just needs the right driver |
| 00:28.42 | blast007 | (or it needs Windows ;) |
| 00:29.04 | jh` | i had perfect fun tonite with bz |
| 00:29.16 | blast007 | jh`: not saying it's not fun |
| 00:29.16 | jh` | we played 5 matches |
| 00:29.21 | blast007 | just saying the code is crap |
| 00:29.25 | TASAIRES | I play on linux using, Live DVD! Knoppix 6.2 now! and KNOPPIX give me support AUTOMATIC! |
| 00:29.38 | TASAIRES | with Not Propietari drive |
| 00:29.43 | TASAIRES | with Not Propietary drive |
| 00:30.15 | blast007 | http://bit.ly/d4Newb <-- maybe that, assuming x86 |
| 00:30.26 | TASAIRES | on Windows using Windows XP with SP3 Professional, and DirectX9 |
| 00:30.28 | jh` | well, we have so much fun with that game it cant be all crap |
| 00:31.10 | TASAIRES | nYes x86, because on x64 fail me, and no have Harware acceleration |
| 00:31.31 | blast007 | of course, knowing AMD on linux, it will probably fail to boot after trying to install that |
| 00:31.34 | blast007 | or start on fire |
| 00:32.10 | jh` | i dont care what the code looks like its still a very playable game |
| 00:32.27 | blast007 | AMD/ATI* |
| 00:32.30 | TASAIRES | I change a VideoCARD with ATI RADEON 9200 and 128 MB 8X AGP, by that last. Radeon 9550 AGP x8 AGP |
| 00:33.11 | TASAIRES | make that when i test the Testing to Debian 5 "lenny", and Windows Vista |
| 00:33.22 | jh` | and im planning to play it as long as it possible |
| 00:33.30 | blast007 | well, on Windows, you should be able to get OpenGL going for sure |
| 00:33.44 | blast007 | just make sure to install the driver from AMD's website - not the stuff in Windows Update |
| 00:33.59 | TASAIRES | because ATI not having support on this time with Propietari drivers for ·D harware Acceleration on drives |
| 00:34.00 | blast007 | the ones in Windows Update don't always have OpenGL acceleration |
| 00:34.20 | blast007 | oh yeah, Vista might not have driver.. |
| 00:35.11 | blast007 | looks like they have a driver |
| 00:35.17 | blast007 | just not the new fancy stuff in Vista/7 |
| 00:35.18 | TASAIRES | on linux using SDL/opengl Mesa |
| 00:37.04 | TASAIRES | OpenGL not fault! only fault: Hardware 3D Acceleration, by Software 3D Acceleration |
| 00:37.05 | jh` | and btw why do you stick with it if its so bad? |
| 00:37.42 | blast007 | jh`: I still use Windows too ;) |
| 00:37.46 | TASAIRES | IF Not Work by hardware, not run many nice Bzflag |
| 00:38.00 | TASAIRES | very slowly |
| 00:38.26 | TASAIRES | and problem to NET, extreme lag and Jitter |
| 00:38.54 | *** join/#bzflag xaver__ (~xaver@pD9ED5F83.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:39.11 | jh` | nobody forces you to be here to cry about bad bz code |
| 00:40.05 | jh` | same time, would you write it better? |
| 00:41.40 | jh` | and what would you write better? |
| 00:41.53 | blast007 | jh`: I can't write a game |
| 00:42.03 | TASAIRES | here say <blast007> I ran a 1.10.x or 2.0.x release on an old 75MHz 486 with a 1MB graphics chip, but me OLD modern PC AMD Sempron (1800 MHZ), tested[WindowsXP, Debian5, Knoppix, and other linux!] |
| 00:42.12 | blast007 | I could write any web services for a game |
| 00:42.15 | TASAIRES | here none to cry |
| 00:42.15 | blast007 | but not a game itself |
| 00:42.33 | jh` | heh..i say |
| 00:43.00 | jh` | who ever wrote it, deservers thanks for it |
| 00:43.03 | blast007 | TASAIRES: I suppose the term "ran" was a poor choice there - the game started and was usable from observer with the lowest settings and a 640x480x8 resolution |
| 00:43.14 | blast007 | and no sound, as there was no sound card |
| 00:43.32 | blast007 | I didn't bother trying to play from it |
| 00:43.47 | blast007 | and it was probably an early 1.10 version |
| 00:44.20 | blast007 | bzflag isn't really a CPU intensive game, so the CPU has less to do with it than the graphics chip |
| 00:44.38 | blast007 | sure, a faster CPU will handle it better if you're running in software rending |
| 00:44.45 | jh` | so why do you make so big deal of it? |
| 00:44.47 | blast007 | jh`: well, sure |
| 00:45.10 | TASAIRES | Too many time, i not play with famebuffer! but Realment, Old X86 Intel, on Special i Remeber my Old Pentium 90HHz, run better to new CPU, a 200% , now are more Speed but potential, Down on Desktop CPU to less 100% |
| 00:46.26 | jh` | the game is playable... |
| 00:46.38 | jh` | thats good enough for me |
| 00:46.40 | blast007 | jh`: sure, just hard to work on |
| 00:46.47 | blast007 | harder from a developer standpoint |
| 00:47.12 | jh` | who says you have develop |
| 00:47.36 | blast007 | jh`: if we don't develop, then it's dead ;) |
| 00:48.16 | jh` | but why do you develop? |
| 00:48.57 | TASAIRES | blast007: bzclient Long time, waiting new versión 2.1.0 or .3.0.x, but now i see tested 2.0.17, on any players! How Many time fault to jump to the Next Generation versión. |
| 00:49.02 | blast007 | jh`: how many commits to the code have I made this year? ;) |
| 00:49.17 | jh` | i have no idea |
| 00:49.23 | blast007 | not many |
| 00:49.40 | blast007 | TASAIRES: there is no planned release date for 3.0.0 |
| 00:49.44 | TASAIRES | blast007: and? next version run on old moderns PC how the mine, or NOt? |
| 00:49.57 | jh` | i commited few times today to our webshop code |
| 00:50.32 | jh` | but thats my work |
| 00:50.46 | TASAIRES | my pc is 1 core CPU, not is Dual core, or more core |
| 00:50.47 | jh` | bzflag is not my work |
| 00:51.20 | jh` | but i enjoy playing it |
| 00:52.25 | blast007 | seems like I've put in less than 30 commits this year, at least in trunk |
| 00:52.46 | blast007 | TASAIRES: the new font system is a bit more hungry |
| 00:52.59 | blast007 | I haven't tried the 2.99.x version without hardware acceleration |
| 00:53.05 | TASAIRES | blast007: ok,.. |
| 00:53.19 | blast007 | for a while, it was set up to require OpenGL 1.3, and I think Windows only provided 1.2 in software |
| 00:53.36 | blast007 | or maybe 1.1 |
| 00:55.22 | blast007 | heck, I don't think I've even tried 2.99.x recently on this laptop with intel graphics |
| 00:55.35 | jh` | your a nerd |
| 00:55.41 | jh` | :) |
| 00:56.17 | blast007 | TASAIRES: you could try it out if you want: http://beta.bzflag.bz/builds/2.99.x/bzflag-2.99.60.20100630.r21252.exe |
| 00:56.37 | blast007 | that one probably still shows servers.. don't think much has chanced since then |
| 00:56.55 | TASAIRES | blast007: Now i testing Windows, PortableApps .com and see to Warzone 2100 Portable, but not see none about, bzflag portable. |
| 00:57.10 | blast007 | nope, bzflag 2.0.x had some bugs that prevented that from being possible |
| 00:57.16 | blast007 | at least earlier versions |
| 00:57.19 | TASAIRES | blast007: from USB device or Pendrive! |
| 00:57.32 | blast007 | I might have fixed that a while ago, but I haven't really tried/cared ;) |
| 00:57.58 | TASAIRES | blast007: any work on portable versión? for bzflag! |
| 00:58.00 | blast007 | and it definately wasn't set up the "PortableApps" way |
| 00:58.21 | blast007 | TASAIRES: there's a -confdir option for bzflag, if I recall |
| 00:58.30 | blast007 | I know it was broken, and may still be broken |
| 00:58.32 | jh` | wow |
| 00:59.58 | AAA_awright | What's with 2.99 anyways, isn't it 3.0? That would imply the next minor revision is 2.100.0 |
| 01:04.37 | blast007 | AAA_awright: 2.99.x is the development version for what will be 3.0.0 |
| 01:04.56 | blast007 | just like 1.9.x was the dev for what was 1.10.x when released |
| 01:05.06 | blast007 | we changed our numbering |
| 01:05.26 | blast007 | second number being 99 means it's the major development for the next major |
| 01:05.29 | AAA_awright | That's a minor odd/even numbering scheme |
| 01:05.47 | blast007 | <+blast007> we changed our numbering |
| 01:05.53 | AAA_awright | 0.1 is testing, and 0.2 is release, and there is no 0.0 |
| 01:06.08 | AAA_awright | That's what the Kernel uses as far as I know |
| 01:06.29 | blast007 | also, 2.99.x does seem to run okay without hardware acceleration as long as you turn stuff down |
| 01:06.42 | blast007 | I was on spazzy's new map in 800x600x8 |
| 01:06.59 | AAA_awright | I'm just curious where the idea for 2.99 came from, if you want 3.1 |
| 01:07.01 | blast007 | (and with hardware acceleration and the quality at medium, I could get 45 to 90 FPS) |
| 01:07.07 | blast007 | 3.1? |
| 01:07.20 | SpazzyMcGee | that map isn't *that* bad for graphics |
| 01:07.28 | SpazzyMcGee | not an enormous polycount |
| 01:07.50 | SpazzyMcGee | just a LOAD of textures |
| 01:07.56 | SpazzyMcGee | and transparency |
| 01:08.02 | SpazzyMcGee | lots of transparency |
| 01:08.05 | blast007 | :) |
| 01:08.33 | blast007 | AAA_awright: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Versions |
| 01:10.04 | blast007 | AAA_awright: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_3.0#Version_Number_Change |
| 01:11.47 | TASAIRES | blast007: i test now the last 2.99.x you put and Excelent Graphics! on Special Ground Terrain "not Green" ;) |
| 01:12.13 | TASAIRES | work nice-lyment |
| 01:18.00 | TASAIRES | bye alls late for me |
| 01:18.11 | blast007 | cya |
| 01:18.15 | TASAIRES | blast007: bye! |
| 01:18.23 | *** part/#bzflag TASAIRES (~murcianic@84.121.187.105.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 01:28.09 | AAA_awright | blast007: Well that explains the system but not the reasoning... and it limits you to 50 minor revisions |
| 01:28.50 | blast007 | AAA_awright: when have we ever had 50 minor revisions? |
| 01:29.04 | AAA_awright | Never say never |
| 01:29.06 | blast007 | and it doesn't really matter if 3.0 never comes out |
| 01:29.20 | AAA_awright | Gah |
| 01:29.27 | AAA_awright | Never Say Never |
| 01:30.03 | blast007 | 2.0.10 was codenamed "never say never" :P |
| 01:30.09 | AAA_awright | exactly :p |
| 01:30.47 | blast007 | we could just change the rules for 4.0 ;) |
| 01:31.04 | blast007 | ever major release would have it's own way of versioning |
| 01:31.13 | blast007 | let's use letters instead of numbers! |
| 01:31.18 | blast007 | or roman numerials! |
| 01:31.26 | AAA_awright | Selfish me just can't imagine why anyone would use anything more complex than semantic versions, major.minor.revision, major is incremented with backwards-incompatible changes, minor is incremented with new features not forward-compatible, minor is for bugfixes |
| 01:31.58 | blast007 | AAA_awright: well, what do you number the development versions where backwards-incompatible changes may occur daily? |
| 01:32.17 | AAA_awright | Those aren't releases though |
| 01:32.26 | blast007 | so? they still have version numbers |
| 01:32.29 | blast007 | at least ours do |
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| 01:32.36 | AAA_awright | The version number of the next release number |
| 01:32.45 | AAA_awright | One of the three incremented at least |
| 01:32.50 | blast007 | but it's not 3.0.0 |
| 01:33.04 | blast007 | so we'd have to skil to 4.0.0 for the release? |
| 01:33.07 | blast007 | skip* |
| 01:33.12 | AAA_awright | Usually with an -RC, -beta, -alpha, or -dev prefix |
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| 01:33.45 | blast007 | in any case, a moot point |
| 01:34.50 | AAA_awright | The current master would be 3.0.0-dev, the canidate release would be 3.0.0-RC1, 3.0.0-RC500, etc, the release would be 3.0.0, oops didn't catch a bug in over 500 release candidates? Release 3.0.1. |
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| 01:35.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 01:37.38 | AAA_awright | I guess it's more important for libraries where you actually need to calculate is X compatible with Y? It doesn't matter too much (except for debating over :p ) with the protocol numbering scheme where exact matches are required |
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| 03:33.13 | xXErxESs | blast |
| 03:33.20 | xXErxESs | hey man how long am i suspended for? |
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| 06:34.12 | Landon__ | Anyone awake? I'm getting this error when trying to join certain servers "Error on md5. Removing offending file" This only seems to happen on new maps when I attempt to download them, anyone know what this could be about? I've cleared the cache and searched the forum for similar problems but haven't found a solution. |
| 06:36.23 | cygal | the error message means that the map file looked corrupted because the md5 was different |
| 06:36.35 | cygal | it happens on *every* new map? |
| 06:36.46 | Landon__ | Yes, although on most it stalls |
| 06:37.03 | Landon__ | but the most recent just stopped it completely |
| 06:37.14 | cygal | always with this error? |
| 06:37.18 | Landon__ | Yes |
| 06:38.09 | Landon__ | and it has just started happening within the last 2 hours, I have never had this happen before today |
| 06:38.23 | Landon__ | Haven't changed anything with my client either |
| 06:43.09 | *** join/#bzflag xaver (~xaver@pD9ED5F83.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:43.55 | cygal | maybe something temporarily wrong with the servers or your internet connection - you can start to worry tomorrow for example |
| 06:48.07 | Landon__ | Oh, I'm thinking just getting a new client would fix it, just seeing if anyone knew what was up |
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| 12:27.46 | TASAIRES | Manu: Hi manu!! Mucho calor? |
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| 18:25.34 | SpazzyMcGee | is ##bzflag-chat deceased? |
| 18:26.03 | SpazzyMcGee | just realised that my client was auto-joining an empty channel |
| 18:26.27 | mrapple | i believe its #bzflag-chat |
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| 18:28.16 | SpazzyMcGee | ah |
| 18:29.02 | SpazzyMcGee | Still - When was the last time a word was spoken in there? |
| 18:39.59 | brad | ah im still in #bzchat;) |
| 18:40.01 | brad | the old old one |
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| 20:07.30 | AAA_awright | Since when was there a ##? |
| 20:19.27 | mrapple | since never |
| 20:19.32 | temporalD | AAA_awright, freenode channels that are not directly related to an opensource project use the ## instead of # |
| 20:19.53 | AAA_awright | Well, "unofficial" channels |
| 20:20.17 | AAA_awright | I mean, since when was BZFlag unofficial? |
| 20:20.24 | *** join/#bzflag honeytank (~honeytank@dyndsl-091-096-127-115.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:52.04 | BulletCatcher | The official BZFlag Freenode channels are #bzflag and #bzflag-chat (formerly #bzchat). |
| 20:52.35 | BulletCatcher | ##bzflag-chat was never anything but a typo. |
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| 21:30.33 | honeytank | whoever is on, im going to bed cya all :) |
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| 23:55.51 | Jeep | hey |
| 23:56.01 | Jeep | I need help |
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| 23:56.56 | Guest503 | Hi |
| 23:59.54 | Gabe_G23 | that was pretty bad |