| 06:59.39 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (~ibot@rikers.org) |
| 06:59.39 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/p/bzflag || 2.0.16 is the current release, use it wisely |
| 06:59.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 07:29.47 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@cpe-76-183-45-237.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 08:19.52 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (~er@89.246.180.151) |
| 09:05.00 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5_ (~William@c-67-173-127-196.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 09:05.16 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (~spldart2@c-98-197-17-13.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 09:08.54 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@c-68-60-212-188.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 09:09.18 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (~gnurdux@c-69-140-178-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 09:23.22 | *** join/#bzflag mac-mini (~mac-mini@unaffiliated/macmini/x-648924) |
| 09:48.34 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (~Wyk3d@79.116.94.226) |
| 10:19.17 | *** join/#bzflag xaver (~xaver@pD9ED5B5B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:46.56 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5__ (~William@c-67-173-127-196.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 12:05.16 | *** join/#bzflag joevano (~joevano@bzflag/developer/JoeVano) |
| 12:05.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v joevano] by ChanServ |
| 12:51.51 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (~delusiona@unaffiliated/delusional) |
| 13:48.03 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart2@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 13:48.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 13:55.12 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 13:55.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 14:59.48 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (~wheeeeeee@96-42-94-7.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 14:59.48 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (~wheeeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 15:14.10 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-86 (~CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 15:41.47 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (~const@bzflag/developer/Constitution) |
| 16:14.57 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (~ausom@bzflag/player/Me1) |
| 16:27.36 | *** join/#bzflag jcp (~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539) |
| 16:33.39 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-86 (~CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:36.29 | *** join/#bzflag JefferyM (~JefferyM@unaffiliated/jeffm2501) |
| 16:36.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JefferyM] by ChanServ |
| 16:40.19 | *** join/#bzflag MindstormsKid (~msk@Wikipedia/MindstormsKid) |
| 16:52.26 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (~Wyk3d@79.116.94.226) |
| 16:53.15 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (~Joshua_Si@ip72-201-4-127.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 18:08.34 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumTim (~tim@62.249.230.206) |
| 18:57.04 | Constitution | I think I figured out the mac build SDL problem for 2.0.16 |
| 18:57.37 | Constitution | the configure script doesn't recognize the latest SDL framework on Panther or Tiger, apparently |
| 18:57.59 | Constitution | I swapped in the version packaged with 2.0.14, and it seems to be working |
| 19:20.58 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@cpe-76-183-45-237.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 19:26.00 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 19:26.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:28.09 | *** join/#bzflag Yassen (~Yassen@unaffiliated/yassen) |
| 19:33.51 | *** join/#bzflag jh` (jh@212-149-249-87.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 19:53.43 | *** part/#bzflag Upsetter (~er@89.246.180.151) |
| 19:54.55 | *** join/#bzflag crueldog (~crueldog@modemcable152.148-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 19:55.43 | JefferyM | why is ts's website made out of avacado? |
| 19:59.05 | mrapple | haha |
| 20:00.34 | JefferyM | maybe it's Guacamole United |
| 20:01.57 | *** join/#bzflag MindstormsKid (~msk@Wikipedia/MindstormsKid) |
| 20:06.53 | JefferyM | has he released the sources for it? |
| 20:09.02 | mrapple | no |
| 20:09.16 | mrapple | im guessing its not that pretty |
| 20:09.38 | JefferyM | the project fourms should not be used to support closed source projects IMHO |
| 20:09.55 | mrapple | well thats a tricky one |
| 20:10.05 | mrapple | its based on an open source project and uses some of its code |
| 20:10.08 | mrapple | but i agree |
| 20:10.18 | JefferyM | what open source code does it use? |
| 20:10.27 | mrapple | WebLeague code iirc |
| 20:10.35 | JefferyM | if it uses open source code then it must comply to the license of that code |
| 20:10.44 | mrapple | yes i think it does |
| 20:10.50 | JefferyM | if it uses webleauge then it also needs to be open source |
| 20:11.03 | mrapple | well |
| 20:11.21 | Constitution | right now it's just a link to a side project for a bz-related league... nothing harmful with such a link imho |
| 20:11.24 | JefferyM | tho techincaly only of he "releases it" |
| 20:11.25 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 20:11.35 | JefferyM | Constitution, it's a matter of priniciple |
| 20:11.50 | JefferyM | bzflag is an open source project so stuff around it "should" be as well |
| 20:11.59 | JefferyM | specialy for the scope of what he's trying to do |
| 20:12.11 | mrapple | blast007 said "Also, mrapple, this one IS a total rewrite." although im not quite sure about that. |
| 20:12.14 | JefferyM | since the thread has become much more then a simple announce |
| 20:12.22 | Constitution | true |
| 20:12.40 | JefferyM | it's even more important since TS is a developer on the project |
| 20:12.55 | JefferyM | and he needs lots of help ;) |
| 20:13.19 | me1 | the post says he can't release it as open because of gnu agpl or something? |
| 20:14.45 | *** join/#bzflag bier (~bier@p54A5704D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:14.47 | Constitution | mrapple: so you're going to write a web league manager from scratch too? |
| 20:15.46 | Constitution | seriously, someone needs to head up a collaborative effort here |
| 20:15.52 | mrapple | yeah. but with help from some people. looks like cobra_fast, nitroxis, and maybe yassen are on board |
| 20:15.57 | Constitution | that makes league managers at my last count for bzflag |
| 20:16.04 | Constitution | *make 4 league |
| 20:16.13 | Cobra_Fast | sup? o ic |
| 20:16.15 | mrapple | four? |
| 20:16.26 | Constitution | meno's, blast's, ts's, yours |
| 20:16.32 | mrapple | blast made one? |
| 20:16.48 | Constitution | he was working on it |
| 20:16.54 | mrapple | not thaat i know of |
| 20:16.59 | mrapple | anyways i have to go, bye all |
| 20:17.01 | Constitution | no, he did |
| 20:17.04 | Constitution | it isn't a question |
| 20:17.34 | Constitution | http://sourceforge.net/projects/trueleague/ |
| 20:23.19 | Constitution | in all seriousness, I wish you guys would work together so you're not duplicating effort |
| 20:23.43 | Constitution | and so one of them might actually get done |
| 20:27.21 | AAA_awright | I know right |
| 20:28.09 | trepan | from left? |
| 20:31.47 | brad | ~Constitution++ |
| 20:32.25 | Constitution | ty brad |
| 20:33.17 | AAA_awright | It seems every time the framework isn't good enough |
| 20:33.32 | AAA_awright | Perhaps it would be easier to write a Drupal plugin for instance |
| 20:33.50 | AAA_awright | Except Drupal has an awful architecture |
| 20:33.59 | Constitution | wrong window, perhaps? |
| 20:35.47 | AAA_awright | mrapple: What's the project? |
| 20:36.38 | Yassen | AAA_awright: leagueconnect.googlecode.com |
| 20:42.14 | sigonasr2 | Just started reading this. Someone's starting another league manager is what I got from it |
| 20:49.21 | JefferyM | personaly I still think leagues shoud be integreated as plugins in a larger social system, not as individual websites :) |
| 20:49.31 | JefferyM | like a "group" in facebook |
| 20:51.49 | JefferyM | but then I am just a little bit crazy |
| 20:52.21 | Constitution | just need someone to write FaceTank first then |
| 20:52.36 | JefferyM | there are third party systems that could be co-opted |
| 20:52.49 | JefferyM | looked into some at one point and they had some potential |
| 20:52.56 | sigonasr2 | That'd be neat. |
| 20:53.02 | JefferyM | I'm just not enough of a webmonkey to do it all |
| 20:54.35 | sigonasr2 | I can't commit to any more projects...doing too many already and learning everyday. :) |
| 20:57.19 | JefferyM | also dosn't care that much anymore |
| 20:58.37 | trepan | apathy++ |
| 21:11.48 | ts | JefferyM: I do comply with all the licenses.. |
| 21:12.20 | JefferyM | ts, cool |
| 21:12.32 | JefferyM | but you don't have a repo or anything where people can help you? |
| 21:12.45 | ts | brad: Hosts one |
| 21:13.03 | ts | I really want to open it, except the logo. |
| 21:13.32 | ts | buut..there seems to be no "GNU Affero LGPL" :( |
| 21:14.11 | JefferyM | how much code did you reuse? |
| 21:14.22 | ts | and the GNU Affero GPL forbids linking to code using other licenses than GPLv3 |
| 21:14.35 | ts | I re-used 0 lines from webleague. |
| 21:14.40 | JefferyM | cool |
| 21:14.47 | JefferyM | just bsd it :) |
| 21:15.05 | ts | cool or not cool, it depends on how you consider its quality |
| 21:15.55 | ts | Well, BSD means no note if it is used as website for instance |
| 21:16.03 | JefferyM | so? |
| 21:16.10 | JefferyM | and why do you like green so much ;) |
| 21:16.46 | ts | What I would want is that people hosting and making modifications have to show the mods |
| 21:17.08 | JefferyM | normal old lgpl then |
| 21:17.24 | JefferyM | or mod an existing license to your taste |
| 21:17.37 | ts | That does not include the Affero clause |
| 21:17.47 | JefferyM | so add it |
| 21:18.08 | JefferyM | whatever it is |
| 21:18.24 | ts | If I go and mod the license..it may be nonsense :S |
| 21:18.31 | JefferyM | so |
| 21:18.39 | JefferyM | it's only to protect you if you have to sue someone |
| 21:18.44 | JefferyM | and that will NEVER happen |
| 21:18.54 | JefferyM | the software has such limited usefulness outside of bzflag |
| 21:19.23 | JefferyM | yet waiting to get the code out to people has massive impact to your codebase, since you don't get help on it |
| 21:19.34 | JefferyM | you can always fix the license later |
| 21:19.41 | JefferyM | just get it out using something |
| 21:20.09 | ts | Theoretically it could be used outside of bzflag but that's really very theoretical |
| 21:21.01 | ts | The next problem is the code from contributing people. |
| 21:21.31 | ts | They might not give permission to release it under a different version etc |
| 21:22.37 | ts | Now that I think about it, part of BZFlag's code is under my copyright |
| 21:23.47 | JefferyM | you gave us non exlusive rights to it when you commited |
| 21:23.58 | JefferyM | we don't do that "you all must agree" thing |
| 21:24.10 | JefferyM | the file says it's copyright tim riker ;) |
| 21:24.39 | ts | What about the submitted patches? |
| 21:24.45 | JefferyM | same thing |
| 21:24.56 | JefferyM | there is part of the devinfo that talks about it |
| 21:25.03 | ts | Hmm, never saw it said that |
| 21:25.03 | JefferyM | I had it clarified |
| 21:25.25 | JefferyM | otherwise tim could not have changed the license from gpl to lgpl |
| 21:25.43 | JefferyM | and could not license it to anyone else if he saw fit to do so |
| 21:26.34 | JefferyM | I would recomend you do the same thing for your project, then there is no confusion about who is in controll of the code licensing |
| 21:27.03 | ts | Absolutly..this is part of why I am rather slow at doing it |
| 21:27.23 | ts | It's easy to do a mistake but hard to revert them |
| 21:28.28 | JefferyM | there is a section in http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/DEVINFO?revision=21259&view=markup about licensing just gank that |
| 21:28.34 | ts | Could I 'steal' the licensing section from BZFlag's DEVINFO? |
| 21:28.44 | JefferyM | yes it's under the lgpl ;) |
| 21:28.47 | JefferyM | no stealing required |
| 21:29.09 | ts | It's copyright Tim Riker, isn't it? |
| 21:29.27 | JefferyM | like all things in the repo |
| 21:29.35 | JefferyM | but we got it from other sources as well |
| 21:29.37 | ts | I'd have his copyright in my code then |
| 21:29.40 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (~delusiona@pool-98-111-223-193.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 21:29.40 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (~delusiona@unaffiliated/delusional) |
| 21:29.46 | ts | hmm, okay |
| 21:29.53 | JefferyM | it woudl be hard for him to assert copyright law |
| 21:30.02 | JefferyM | I mean I personaly wrote parts of it |
| 21:30.05 | JefferyM | and others tweaked it |
| 21:30.17 | JefferyM | just use it and get on with life |
| 21:30.47 | ts | It's not about asserting, it's rather about complying with the copyright |
| 21:30.53 | JefferyM | if you spend your life worrying about the little things like that then you'll never get anything done |
| 21:31.02 | JefferyM | it's all about asserting |
| 21:31.17 | JefferyM | copyringt is just a way for an author to assert legal right in a court case |
| 21:31.21 | JefferyM | it's just protection |
| 21:31.22 | JefferyM | that's it |
| 21:31.31 | JefferyM | it has no magical properties other then that |
| 21:32.09 | JefferyM | and in your case, the spirit of the thing is to make something ELSE open source, and you will be providing the source for your changes ( the doc itself) |
| 21:32.13 | ts | okay |
| 21:32.26 | JefferyM | so it would be very hard for him to prove that you have broken his licnese |
| 21:32.56 | JefferyM | since his license dons't say that you have to provide his copyright notice, just that you have to provide the source to your edits |
| 21:32.58 | JefferyM | and you will be |
| 21:33.42 | ts | Okay |
| 21:34.01 | ts | Should I place a copyright notice in every file or is that not needed? |
| 21:34.04 | JefferyM | as you break works down into smaller parts, copyright law breaks down, so there are often critical limits of what a court would consider a derivation |
| 21:34.11 | JefferyM | that's up to you |
| 21:34.31 | JefferyM | do you think that you will need to sue someone for using a single file? |
| 21:35.06 | JefferyM | I usualy put my copyrights in the readme and tha'ts it |
| 21:35.10 | ts | Well, if I'd steal a company logo maybe..but in other cases it would be highly unliekyl |
| 21:35.12 | JefferyM | per file is a PITA |
| 21:35.21 | ts | bleh, speling |
| 21:35.25 | JefferyM | logos are trademark, that's different |
| 21:35.44 | JefferyM | are you going to trademark your logo? |
| 21:35.57 | JefferyM | if so then you put the little T or C in it |
| 21:36.05 | JefferyM | so it is marked seperately |
| 21:36.10 | ts | I would not. |
| 21:36.29 | ts | but i wouldn't want to give it away as GPL, I didn't made it |
| 21:36.42 | JefferyM | really you just need to decide how much support you need to leverage those that would use the code in a way you don't want |
| 21:36.57 | ts | and the one who made it said as propriatary file it would be ok |
| 21:36.57 | JefferyM | then don't include it in your distrobution |
| 21:37.00 | JefferyM | juse a placeholder |
| 21:37.06 | JefferyM | that's simple stuff |
| 21:37.19 | JefferyM | people can use the code with an image placeholder |
| 21:37.52 | JefferyM | ann so someone else loves avacados, not you :) |
| 21:37.52 | ts | hmm |
| 21:38.29 | ts | One problem is: the website is using the svn repository with auto updates |
| 21:38.45 | JefferyM | that's a design problem, not a logo problem |
| 21:38.54 | JefferyM | throw the logo path into the config file |
| 21:39.01 | JefferyM | make it a logo overide |
| 21:39.08 | JefferyM | should be simple to resolve |
| 21:39.16 | ts | but if only a placeholder is used as logo in the repository then there would be always conflicts to update |
| 21:39.39 | JefferyM | sad that you fixate on the smallest of problems and let them prevent you from doing big things |
| 21:39.54 | JefferyM | it's like a 2min fix |
| 21:40.24 | ts | Well, I'll try to solve that |
| 21:41.10 | JefferyM | sounds like your system isn't themeable |
| 21:41.57 | ts | It can use different stylesheets |
| 21:42.15 | JefferyM | but not imagesets? |
| 21:42.27 | JefferyM | and can't images be in sytlesheets? |
| 21:42.30 | ts | What do you mean by imagesets? |
| 21:42.35 | JefferyM | sets of images |
| 21:42.51 | ts | You can include images in the stylesheets |
| 21:42.57 | ts | like the background |
| 21:43.41 | JefferyM | then then get that logo into the style sheet, have a default stylesheet that has the placeholder logo and then your site uses a moded one that isn't in SVN |
| 21:43.44 | JefferyM | simple |
| 21:45.36 | ts | :) |
| 21:46.36 | ts | I'm going to watch some tv, I'll sort out the problems at the weekend. Thanks for the help. |
| 21:49.33 | JefferyM | if you need help with the CSS I"m sure there are people here who would be more then willing to assist :) |
| 21:57.28 | JefferyM | ts, oh and that logo has to be lgpl, it uses lgpl elements (from the game ) ;) |
| 22:03.51 | blast007 | Constitution: 5 if you count both of mine (there was iLeague back in the day too) |
| 22:06.04 | JefferyM | heh |
| 22:06.17 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5 (~William@c-67-173-127-196.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:19.22 | *** join/#bzflag R0b0t1 (~Enigma@unaffiliated/r0b0t1) |
| 22:52.31 | *** part/#bzflag crueldog (~crueldog@modemcable152.148-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 23:17.21 | Murielle | using http://my.bzflag.org/weblogin.php, players can log on a website in a secure way. I want to do a website that would be able to deny access for some given callsigns. As the database would not be on the website (since i would use http://my.bzflag.org/weblogin.php), a player could change his callsign. In this case, how can the website be able to deny access to this new callsign (since it is the same player) ? |
| 23:17.53 | JefferyM | ban the ID not the name |
| 23:18.03 | JefferyM | you get back the BZID from the auth query |
| 23:18.10 | Murielle | super! |
| 23:18.19 | JefferyM | same thing happens in games |
| 23:18.34 | JefferyM | baning by name or IP is silly when those can change, so ban by ID |
| 23:18.45 | Murielle | is there a documentation for http://my.bzflag.org/weblogin.php ? |
| 23:19.05 | JefferyM | yes in the sample we provide that does the other end of it |
| 23:19.20 | JefferyM | that's just the end user side, there is a component you need on your end to verify the token |
| 23:19.31 | Murielle | ok thank you jeffM |
| 23:19.48 | JefferyM | it's in the misc dir and has lots of comments |
| 23:19.55 | JefferyM | including the fields available to you |
| 23:22.31 | Murielle | erm...the misc dir in the bzflag source folder ? |
| 23:22.37 | JefferyM | ya |
| 23:22.46 | Murielle | i do not see it :( |
| 23:22.48 | JefferyM | check token or something like that |
| 23:23.20 | JefferyM | you on trunk or branch? |
| 23:23.36 | Murielle | checktoken.php |
| 23:23.51 | Murielle | 2.0.16 |
| 23:23.59 | JefferyM | then it should be in there |
| 23:24.07 | JefferyM | trunk moved it to misc/webauth |
| 23:24.10 | Murielle | it is checktoken, right? |
| 23:24.14 | JefferyM | yes |
| 23:24.22 | Murielle | ok, i read it:) |
| 23:27.58 | JefferyM | yeah it should show you at the end where it gets the BZID |
| 23:28.32 | Murielle | ok |
| 23:29.03 | JefferyM | I thought i wrote a name to bzid lookup API page once |
| 23:29.09 | JefferyM | don't recall where it is tho |
| 23:29.33 | Murielle | i will look for it. Thank you for the infos |
| 23:29.47 | JefferyM | you can't look for it, it's on the server |
| 23:29.50 | JefferyM | not part of the source |
| 23:29.59 | Murielle | oh |
| 23:30.00 | JefferyM | the only thing that can do that for you is the login machine |
| 23:30.01 | Murielle | :p |
| 23:30.13 | trepan | http://my.bzflag.org/bzidtools2.php |
| 23:30.32 | trepan | (the '2' version added the form) |
| 23:30.50 | JefferyM | fun |
| 23:31.05 | trepan | ya, mind blowing |