| 00:42.03 | *** join/#bzflag cods_ (n=cods@tuxee.net) |
| 01:08.20 | me1 | trepan, observers do not explode, what is this blasphemy? |
| 01:15.14 | trepan | huh? |
| 01:15.26 | me1 | "setup so that observers see cracks when using roamViewFP" |
| 01:15.47 | trepan | and? |
| 01:15.50 | me1 | it sounds like a driving mode for observer? |
| 01:16.07 | trepan | do you know what roamViewFP is? |
| 01:16.16 | me1 | i guess I should have asked that |
| 01:23.48 | me1 | What is roamViewFP? Also, are those recent commits going to allow players to switch teams without rejoining? |
| 01:25.12 | trepan | dynamic team changes were added a while ago (not by me) |
| 01:25.37 | trepan | but, they obviously weren't fully tested ... recent changes are required fixes |
| 01:28.00 | trepan | tbh, i wouldn't consider it "fully tested" at this point either, probably lots of bugs left ;) |
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| 01:31.28 | me1 | What's "roamViewFP"? Roam view for players? |
| 01:33.36 | blast007 | first person, I would assume |
| 01:33.48 | blast007 | as in, the "driving with" mode |
| 01:34.10 | me1 | it all makes sense now |
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| 01:37.13 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 01:37.58 | me1 | gets unresolved externals compiling- first error is "guiplaying.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol "class ControlPanel * controlPanel" (?controlPanel@@3PAVControlPanel@@A)" - http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m72d2ef82 |
| 01:38.57 | blast007 | probably just missing some files from the VC projects |
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| 01:44.53 | CIA-63 | BZFlag: 03will07c5 * r19934 10/trunk/bzworkbench/src/objects/ (arc.cpp base.cpp pyramid.cpp sphere.cpp): transforms should now work for all applicable objects |
| 01:45.16 | blast007 | Will07c5: yay ;) |
| 01:48.06 | Will07c5 | I'm not sure if shear is working right though, I'll have to compare it to bzflag to make sure |
| 01:48.53 | blast007 | have you noticed any performance issues with a large number of objects? I haven't tired in a while, but I know that it was a problem before you started on it, at least |
| 01:49.08 | Will07c5 | yeah I did |
| 01:49.22 | Will07c5 | it lags a little bit when I load up hix |
| 01:49.39 | Will07c5 | I'm going to optimize at the end though |
| 01:49.43 | blast007 | ok |
| 01:49.55 | Will07c5 | since it is more important that it works :) |
| 01:50.10 | trepan | hix? that's a tiny map ;) |
| 01:50.13 | blast007 | I think someone else had wondered if it was recreated the scenegraph each frame, or something like that.. can't remember |
| 01:50.26 | blast007 | recreating* |
| 01:50.50 | Will07c5 | I don't know, I actually haven't looked at that part of the code |
| 01:50.56 | blast007 | I think I had loaded up something with like 1000 objects, and it was horrible |
| 01:51.07 | blast007 | hix is pretty lightweight |
| 01:51.15 | trepan | i wouldn't think there'd even be a scenegraph |
| 01:51.23 | blast007 | trepan: it uses OSG |
| 01:51.44 | trepan | ah, forgot that part :) |
| 01:52.18 | Will07c5 | the parser is very slow for large files too |
| 01:53.02 | Will07c5 | so there is definitely plenty of optimization that needs to be done |
| 01:53.10 | blast007 | yup |
| 01:53.17 | blast007 | but at least it works now |
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| 01:56.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JefferyM] by ChanServ |
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| 03:25.54 | Bambino | anyone need a date :P http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14226 |
| 03:26.59 | KTL | tank hugging, very cute. |
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| 03:32.34 | ahs3- | http://pastebin.com/mb483aaf |
| 03:32.39 | ahs3- | any ideas? |
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| 03:42.45 | TheRedbaron | ahs3-: more cowbell |
| 03:43.36 | ahs3- | cowbell? |
| 03:46.03 | blast007 | ahs3-: I think that's "normal" currently |
| 03:46.27 | blast007 | at least for the assertions |
| 03:46.42 | ahs3- | ok |
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| 08:24.04 | Cygal | can anyone access to the svn serv? |
| 08:24.32 | Cygal | svn: OPTIONS of 'https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag': could not connect to server (https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net) |
| 08:26.50 | Xell_ | works for me |
| 08:27.02 | Cygal | wonders what is wrong |
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| 08:49.56 | Cygal | can anyone help? |
| 08:51.02 | Xell_ | do you use debian? |
| 08:51.05 | Cygal | yes |
| 08:51.45 | brad | can you access it in a browser? |
| 08:51.51 | Cygal | yes |
| 08:52.07 | Cygal | https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/ works fine in a browser |
| 08:52.08 | Xell_ | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=531338 |
| 08:52.36 | Cygal | ahh, thanks |
| 08:52.40 | Cygal | will use apt-pinning |
| 08:56.02 | blast007 | hi Cygal |
| 08:56.38 | Cygal | hi |
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| 09:24.53 | cygal | thanks Xell_, a comment from the bug report helped me |
| 09:27.34 | Xell_ | You're welcome |
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| 10:28.46 | CIA-63 | BZFlag: 03cygal * r19935 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsMessages.cxx: patch from Yassen: messages are no longer sent to bots. fixes first part of bug 2681142 |
| 10:55.12 | cygal | concerning solo bots, do they need to get messages, and things such as informations coming from identify flag? |
| 10:57.59 | cygal | something is wrong with the current design : when a message is sent to a player, everybody from the same IP receives it |
| 10:58.26 | cygal | is it intended or should it be fixed, or only fixed for the solo bots? |
| 10:58.35 | cygal | DTRemenak: ping |
| 11:00.40 | AAA_awright | cygal: As I understand bots were changed to be on the same TCP connection as the player. I can't figure out why that is a good thing, it introduces overhead, unless I am missing something. |
| 11:01.35 | AAA_awright | Do you know? |
| 11:01.48 | cygal | no idea |
| 11:02.27 | cygal | but is it only for bots? if you launch a server, two clients, A and B, when A sends a message to B, A and B receive it |
| 11:02.47 | cygal | hmm, or I am mistaken. |
| 11:03.23 | cygal | ok, I am mistaken, and did not understand the output |
| 11:03.43 | cygal | AAA_awright: anyway, it appears that this is the reason for a lot of bugs concerning bots |
| 11:04.01 | cygal | messages sent to the bots are received by the player, and displayed on the player window |
| 11:04.23 | AAA_awright | Two non-bot clients? |
| 11:04.56 | cygal | the bug I described above is not existant in fact, sorry |
| 11:05.24 | cygal | currently the fix is to put "if player is a bot, then don't send him anything", but I don't think it is the proper fix |
| 11:05.54 | AAA_awright | Two non-bot clients should use seperate TCP/UDP connections (by "UDP connection" I mean a different port) |
| 11:06.20 | cygal | indeed, and it does, so no bug here |
| 11:06.25 | cygal | there is only trouble for bots |
| 11:07.03 | AAA_awright | Bots do, so any message that doesn't explicitly send the client its own slot number is ambigous |
| 11:07.19 | AAA_awright | Like the ID flag packet (whatever it is called, I forget) |
| 11:07.25 | cygal | yup |
| 11:07.51 | cygal | one fix would be to say, "if it is a bot, forget the ID flag", but it does not seem to be a proper fix |
| 11:08.11 | cygal | do you know who decided to use the same TCP connection? |
| 11:08.18 | AAA_awright | A program may want to know that, they would have to join as a player. |
| 11:09.03 | AAA_awright | I don't know factually, JeffM seems to know about it though, ask hum |
| 11:09.54 | cygal | I'll ask him when he will be awake |
| 11:10.07 | cygal | « A program may want to know that, they would have to join as a player. » sorry, did not get this, what did you mean? |
| 11:12.03 | AAA_awright | A bot might want to recieve the ID flag information if it has ID. The patch would prevent that. |
| 11:12.29 | cygal | indeed, this is why I don't want to commit Yassen's patch |
| 11:12.54 | cygal | well, it could want to receive team messages and parse them somehow, but this is less likely to happen :) |
| 11:13.19 | AAA_awright | You could make it so a bot that has the connection to itself gets the information, but that still prevents -solo bots from getting it |
| 11:15.04 | AAA_awright | I am gonna search the history here, after I download the last weeks commits |
| 11:15.20 | cygal | this would be a great help :) |
| 11:15.30 | cygal | is switching to other bugs for now |
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| 11:23.13 | AAA_awright | cygal: It was done to the trunk (the 2.1 branch) at commit 12200 by atupone. That was in 2005. |
| 11:24.11 | cygal | ok, thanks |
| 11:37.05 | cygal | how can I display the corresponding diff? |
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| 11:49.16 | AAA_awright | cygal: I don't know, look it up in the SVN documentation? "svn help diff" |
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| 12:14.58 | brlcad | svn diff -r 12200:12199 |
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| 13:09.31 | cygal | brlcad: how do you think I should fix the bug? |
| 13:09.47 | cygal | one connection per bot, not send the messages to the bots, filter in the client? |
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| 13:44.13 | CIA-63 | BZFlag: 03Daviss 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5875 10/w/User:Daviss: New page: '''English''' ''Daviss is an huge fan of Linkin Park. He plays many computer games, but he likes Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory the most. He plays ET (Enemy Territory) through X-Fire. He is... |
| 13:44.46 | CIA-63 | BZFlag: 03Daviss 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5876 10/w/User:Daviss: |
| 13:45.20 | CIA-63 | BZFlag: 03Daviss 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5877 10/w/User:Daviss: |
| 14:20.57 | *** join/#bzflag War (n=DTMB@207.235.53.82) |
| 14:21.31 | War | nnick War_Pig |
| 14:21.38 | Thumper_ | %syntax error |
| 14:21.44 | WarPig | lol |
| 14:31.05 | joevano | ~n |
| 14:31.05 | ibot | i heard n is the disease bzflag players get when they play too much. There is no cure. |
| 14:31.21 | joevano | there is no hope WarPig |
| 14:31.45 | WarPig | nlol |
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| 14:50.16 | trepan | fwiw, "svn diff -c 12200" also does the trick |
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| 15:10.33 | kierra | trepan: everything is better in bold ;) |
| 15:22.18 | *** join/#bzflag temp_dist (n=pidgin@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 15:22.41 | cygal | trepan: any idea concerning the bug I'm trying to fix? |
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| 15:54.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JefferyM] by ChanServ |
| 15:56.51 | cygal | hi JefferyM :) |
| 15:56.54 | cygal | I have a few questions |
| 15:57.41 | cygal | started the work on my bugs. we have several bugs that are here because solo bots share the same connection than the player |
| 15:58.09 | cygal | AAA_awright seems to recall that this has been done because it would reduce overhead (commit 12200) |
| 15:58.27 | cygal | currently the fixes are "if this is a computer player", do not send him the message |
| 15:58.54 | cygal | which is not ok since the bots could want those messages |
| 15:59.06 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (n=jolie@unaffiliated/kierra) |
| 15:59.08 | cygal | should the commit be reverted? should the client do the filtering? |
| 15:59.38 | JefferyM | how hard is it to do the filtering? |
| 16:00.51 | cygal | I do not know. and to be honest, I do not really understand how solo bots work (where is the code that handles their AI) |
| 16:01.26 | JefferyM | then you are not ready to ask what woudl be a better change since you do not know the ramifications of each choice |
| 16:01.44 | JefferyM | from a techincal standpoint having them all share a connection is a good thing |
| 16:01.56 | AAA_awright | I can't figure out how it reduces overhead, only trades a few extra TCP connections at the start for a host of problems and a few extra bytes here and there |
| 16:01.59 | JefferyM | so I would need some good reason to revert it, more then "we don't understand it" |
| 16:02.07 | JefferyM | AAA_awright, it's codeoverhead |
| 16:02.17 | cygal | if I knew exactly what were the ramifications, then I would not ask the question |
| 16:02.18 | JefferyM | not neessiaraly bandwith overhead |
| 16:02.31 | JefferyM | banning a user is simple with a single connectio, one socket, all bots, etc.. |
| 16:02.41 | AAA_awright | On the client end only? The server just treats it like another player. |
| 16:02.54 | JefferyM | cygal, don't say that, you should still ask to get otehr's in put |
| 16:03.00 | JefferyM | AAA_awright, it's still a single socket on the server |
| 16:03.15 | JefferyM | so the server ban system, that happens BEFORE player stuff, can happen on a single socket |
| 16:03.16 | AAA_awright | I mean, in terms of the overhead of one connection per player |
| 16:03.32 | cygal | (currently it is a lot of code overhead in the server) |
| 16:03.34 | JefferyM | you are making an assumption about what "opverhead" means. |
| 16:03.37 | cygal | I'll investigate on the cilent side |
| 16:04.05 | JefferyM | it makes sense to be able to shove messages for N players down one connection pipe, the protocoll shoudl support it |
| 16:04.24 | JefferyM | the server side player handling is sperate from the actual connection logic |
| 16:04.34 | JefferyM | that's the joy of the net handler abstraction |
| 16:05.22 | AAA_awright | Why not use the packet headers already in TCP or UDP to differentiate connections then? |
| 16:06.15 | JefferyM | why not just use playerID byte like we have now |
| 16:06.25 | JefferyM | the problem is NOT with the indexing of players |
| 16:06.47 | JefferyM | why do you always try to solve poblems that don't exist? |
| 16:06.59 | cygal | because we don't know all the ramifications :) |
| 16:07.16 | JefferyM | oh yeah and randomly tyring "stuff" is going to fix it? |
| 16:08.04 | JefferyM | the simple thing is, you have to do more work, end of story. Understand the problem. If it is a true techincal limitaiton with sending that much data over one connection, then we have to remove it. If it simply that there is code that makes some assumptions for the old way, then we just fix the code. |
| 16:08.05 | cygal | I'm not trying "stuff", I'm trying to fix real bugs without hacks |
| 16:08.14 | JefferyM | I know you are |
| 16:08.18 | cygal | and I totally accept having to do more work |
| 16:08.25 | JefferyM | the problems that don't exist comment was not for you ;) |
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| 16:08.33 | cygal | sorry then |
| 16:09.47 | JefferyM | the problem with reverting is, that we've already made some other fixes to the code to get it to work with a single connection |
| 16:09.56 | JefferyM | so you'd have to go find all those places and unfix them too |
| 16:10.04 | JefferyM | since they are not part of that inital commit |
| 16:10.34 | AAA_awright | ~seen tupone |
| 16:10.35 | ibot | tupone <n=alfredo@gentoo/developer/tupone> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 22d 1h 16m 13s ago, saying: 'hola sean :)'. |
| 16:10.38 | JefferyM | conceptualy all players on one connetion should work |
| 16:10.56 | JefferyM | yeah I don't think you'll get much help there AAA_awright ;) |
| 16:12.06 | AAA_awright | I want to understand the engineering decisions |
| 16:12.23 | JefferyM | it was to make the socket management simpler |
| 16:12.27 | JefferyM | for the ban system |
| 16:12.30 | JefferyM | not a bandiwth thing |
| 16:12.46 | JefferyM | tho we CAN lower bandwith by using the client as a router |
| 16:13.01 | AAA_awright | I didn't see that happening (then again, I didn't look through much of the change history) |
| 16:13.02 | JefferyM | make a player ID that represents all local players |
| 16:13.14 | JefferyM | noone ever said that he finished the goal |
| 16:13.37 | AAA_awright | How would bandwith be lowered? |
| 16:13.53 | JefferyM | we could send one player update for all players/bots on one connection |
| 16:13.59 | JefferyM | and let the real player, update the bots |
| 16:14.08 | JefferyM | rather then sending player updates to all the seperate bots. |
| 16:15.26 | AAA_awright | That could also be done with a header... for instance, for each bot TCP/UDP connection, have a message in the MsgEnter header that says <x> is my parent, I get info updates from them (and vice versa, the parent says with a packet y,z are my children) |
| 16:15.44 | JefferyM | why invent a system that is more complex then what we have? |
| 16:16.00 | JefferyM | what advantage is there by mucking with the header? |
| 16:16.33 | JefferyM | and "more code to unpack messages" is not an advantage |
| 16:16.47 | cygal | (we already know who is the parent anyway) |
| 16:16.52 | JefferyM | exactly |
| 16:16.54 | JefferyM | the owner of the socket |
| 16:16.58 | AAA_awright | But that is exactly what is happening by adding a player ID to every packet |
| 16:17.11 | JefferyM | we have have that for other reasons |
| 16:17.18 | JefferyM | so you know who the event was for |
| 16:17.45 | JefferyM | are you actualy arguing just to save a friggin BYTE in the network packet? |
| 16:18.18 | AAA_awright | Heh |
| 16:18.41 | JefferyM | you mostly do web stuff for your job right? |
| 16:19.27 | AAA_awright | Personally, multiple clients that are supposed to get different information off of one connection seems more complex to me. It could be a simple "don't send me broadcast messages". Or more complex, "don't send messages also sent to <x>" |
| 16:20.30 | AAA_awright | I only started with networking/POSIX a few years ago, only web development until then, yes |
| 16:22.01 | JefferyM | AAA_awright, the bots actualy share the root player's state |
| 16:22.13 | JefferyM | so there isn't really much that happens on the client other then updating the single state |
| 16:22.15 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I'm thinking the largest amount of traffic would be stuff that is broadcast, so sharing the connection would save bandwidth |
| 16:22.18 | JefferyM | so it isn't that hard. |
| 16:22.27 | blast007 | (player updates, shot, etc) |
| 16:22.36 | JefferyM | yeah its' not like a web server where you want each hit to be seperate |
| 16:22.48 | JefferyM | a client only has one set of tanks and shots, etc.. |
| 16:22.53 | JefferyM | so we only need one message to update them |
| 16:23.07 | AAA_awright | blast007: I don't deny that, my idea was to have a simple "I don't want broadcasts" flag, or a "don't send me packets also sent to <slot>" byte |
| 16:23.14 | JefferyM | and the notifications to the bot AI can be done with clean callbacks. |
| 16:23.42 | JefferyM | AAA_awright, that's what the mesage that says "this player ID is a bot on this other playerID's connection |
| 16:23.50 | JefferyM | we have that now when each bot is added |
| 16:23.53 | JefferyM | so we know that info |
| 16:24.02 | JefferyM | we don't need to shove it into a TCP header |
| 16:24.18 | AAA_awright | yeah |
| 16:25.07 | JefferyM | I really think you should underatand what is going on a bit more with the code before you comment, specialy to SOC students, as it can confuse them. |
| 16:26.11 | jorgenpt | cuddles the SoC students, "poor things" |
| 16:28.02 | jorgenpt | ~lastspoke wyk3d |
| 16:28.08 | jorgenpt | ibot: :( |
| 16:28.08 | ibot | somebody said ( was feeling blue |
| 16:28.15 | jorgenpt | ~seen wyk3d |
| 16:28.17 | ibot | wyk3d <n=Wyk3d@c7.campus.utcluj.ro> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 4d 2h 10m 4s ago, saying: 'means, exams'. |
| 16:28.30 | JefferyM | ahh he's examing |
| 16:28.31 | JefferyM | that sucks |
| 16:28.55 | jorgenpt | Ye :/ |
| 16:31.39 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5 (n=william@c-67-173-127-196.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 16:34.46 | AAA_awright | Is there any reason not to use OpenGL gradiants in BZFlag? |
| 16:35.19 | JefferyM | what is an openGL "gradiant"? |
| 16:35.54 | JefferyM | do you just mean a shape with different colors at each vertex? |
| 16:36.17 | AAA_awright | Just a simple gradiant, yeah. |
| 16:36.37 | JefferyM | that's a shape with colors, GL dosn't have the concept of a gradiant |
| 16:36.52 | JefferyM | and yes it's fine, that's how all the shading in the entire system works |
| 16:37.04 | JefferyM | lighting just computes a color for each vertex and lets the fragment renderer blend it |
| 16:37.14 | JefferyM | it's core feature of the API |
| 16:37.31 | JefferyM | all you are doing is just precomputing the colors |
| 16:39.48 | AAA_awright | Alright, just curious. Thanks. (OpenGL is not my thing if you couldn't tell) |
| 16:47.29 | JefferyM | yeah that's just called blending, and every 3d system on the planet needs to be able to do it if they want to do lighting of any sort. |
| 16:47.39 | *** join/#bzflag Xell_ (n=Xell@p5486C842.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:52.39 | Constitution | ~bzflist |
| 16:52.53 | JefferyM | maybe GU banned it |
| 16:53.05 | Constitution | lol |
| 16:53.49 | JefferyM | it is a modified client, and does connect to thier servers |
| 17:04.57 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 17:04.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 17:06.46 | brad | ha ha ha jeff ;) |
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| 17:59.56 | kierra | JefferyM: thanks for the clarification, I was sure I was in trouble BIG with you yet again |
| 18:00.14 | JefferyM | it's a post that is on the edge |
| 18:00.21 | JefferyM | it dosn't mention anyone specific so it's ok |
| 18:00.30 | JefferyM | it just didn't need to be 2 posts ;) |
| 18:00.36 | kierra | life on the edge is exciting |
| 18:00.41 | JefferyM | for you |
| 18:00.45 | JefferyM | not for the paramedics |
| 18:00.57 | kierra | i thought I was careful :) |
| 18:01.00 | JefferyM | you were |
| 18:01.01 | kierra | with you in mind |
| 18:01.26 | JefferyM | tho you really bring to light now we need to refactor our web services |
| 18:01.39 | JefferyM | and move the social stuff out of bzbb and into it's own networking site |
| 18:01.57 | JefferyM | we need a facebook like site for bzflag players |
| 18:02.06 | kierra | hmm |
| 18:02.11 | JefferyM | then leauges, servers, etc.. can just be groups |
| 18:02.16 | JefferyM | and people opt into them |
| 18:02.23 | JefferyM | and each group gets a discussion thread |
| 18:02.33 | JefferyM | then players get blogs, status updates, etc... |
| 18:02.40 | JefferyM | and each group is self managed |
| 18:03.16 | JefferyM | somone can make a "mouse or keyboard" group and it can live on forever in it's own little page |
| 18:03.49 | JefferyM | it would also be nice to tie stats and leauge features into that site, so a group could use leauge plugins for matchs, and it'd all be integrated. |
| 18:04.09 | JefferyM | then we get rid of a bunch of sites and get features that people would actualy use |
| 18:04.21 | JefferyM | and have the bassis for a friend fineder and match up system |
| 18:04.41 | JefferyM | may have been thinking about this for a while |
| 18:05.28 | Bambino | Like, how long? :) |
| 18:05.59 | JefferyM | couple weeks |
| 18:06.02 | joevano | and then with all those fines we collect with the 'fineder' we could support the servers and maybe pay a developer;) |
| 18:06.35 | Bambino | and they the people who post ads have to pay us! It's brilliant! |
| 18:06.46 | Bambino | s/us/developers/ |
| 18:08.53 | cygal | I guess it is time to learn how to really use gdb |
| 18:16.10 | JefferyM | cygal, using a debuger will be a skill that you will use your entire programing life |
| 18:16.25 | JefferyM | It amazes me that so many students have never used one |
| 18:17.18 | cygal | I know how to use gdb |
| 18:17.26 | cygal | but only for my small projects |
| 18:17.59 | JefferyM | size matters not |
| 18:18.14 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (n=jolie@unaffiliated/kierra) |
| 18:18.17 | cygal | and only for C, not C++ (this matters afaik) |
| 18:18.33 | JefferyM | I can't see how it would matter |
| 18:18.56 | JefferyM | the windows debuger don't care about the language |
| 18:19.54 | cygal | concerning templates and class methods - how do you set breakpoints? |
| 18:20.14 | JefferyM | that I'll leave to someone who knows gdb better |
| 18:20.17 | JefferyM | I just hit F9 |
| 18:21.22 | blast007 | isn't it just 'break filename:linenumber' ? |
| 18:23.41 | cygal | ah, I used to debug giving the function name |
| 18:23.45 | cygal | how does it handle templates? |
| 18:24.15 | blast007 | no idea |
| 18:24.24 | blast007 | I'm not much of a C/C++ programmer ;) |
| 18:24.37 | blast007 | so I honestly couldn't even define what a template is |
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| 18:27.13 | JefferyM | the teplate is still processed as C++ code |
| 18:27.31 | JefferyM | so when the compiler hits that code in the template it'll break |
| 18:27.46 | cygal | I'll try then |
| 18:27.59 | JefferyM | you can probalby just give the template name and metho |
| 18:28.06 | JefferyM | samd for class::method |
| 18:28.20 | JefferyM | it should all work the same |
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| 19:41.56 | WarPig | Got a message a moment ago that "Sk3 messed up ducati rogues, and to go there" Went there, and dndt see anything. There is an observer @ connected called bzadmin that is chatting. |
| 19:47.48 | *** join/#bzflag Mets (n=Mets@cpe-72-224-55-41.nycap.res.rr.com) |
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| 20:41.36 | bz45 | what is the basis for removing yet another thread from the gu discussion forum, please? |
| 20:41.43 | bz45 | said thread was entirely on-topic |
| 20:42.43 | me1 | bz45, any discussion about cheating is strictly off-topic |
| 20:42.51 | bz45 | this wasn't about cheating |
| 20:43.00 | me1 | what was it about? |
| 20:43.00 | bz45 | it was about where the gu forum should be hosted |
| 20:43.22 | bz45 | some of the admins i've spoken to are angry you are censoring our forum |
| 20:43.48 | me1 | Technically, they can do whatever they want. Having a forum there is a privilage, not a right. |
| 20:44.34 | bz45 | doesn't make it morally correct |
| 20:46.03 | temp_work | doesn't GU have their own forum? |
| 20:46.09 | bz45 | no |
| 20:46.21 | bz45 | just the one hosted on bzflag.org |
| 20:47.13 | bz45 | we used to have a forum elsewhere at that place people with a hitler-complex weren't actively censoring anything half-critical |
| 20:47.15 | brad | snicky? |
| 20:47.25 | bz45 | yes |
| 20:47.28 | brad | hi :) |
| 20:47.40 | bz45 | i upload a screenshot of what i posted. one second |
| 20:47.48 | trepan | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=14231 |
| 20:48.41 | bz45 | it now says "you are not authorized to read this forum" |
| 20:49.22 | trepan | ah, sorry, posted in the GU League Administration (Private) forum |
| 20:50.03 | JefferyM | bz45, is this snick? |
| 20:50.32 | bz45 | http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=18unuUrmDiWQp6SI07bCMG3HqoNEJT |
| 20:50.33 | JefferyM | if you'd like to discuss the bzbb rules I am more then happy to talk to you about it |
| 20:50.46 | bz45 | as you can see: not controversial, mildy worded, on-topic etc etc |
| 20:50.48 | JefferyM | are you the author of that post? |
| 20:50.56 | bz45 | how can that possibly contravene bzbb rules? |
| 20:51.01 | JefferyM | are you the author of that post? |
| 20:51.04 | bz45 | yes |
| 20:51.11 | bz45 | the one in the screenshot |
| 20:51.23 | bz45 | the other one linked to i cannot see. it's in a private forum |
| 20:51.27 | JefferyM | then we will continue this in private |
| 20:51.44 | bz45 | why in private? why has everything got to be hidden away? |
| 20:51.53 | bz45 | what is everyone so afraid of? :) |
| 20:52.00 | JefferyM | if you do not wish to discss it, that is fine |
| 20:52.15 | bz45 | i will in private if you wish. but what's wrong with public? |
| 20:52.24 | JefferyM | it's not affraid, when GU asked for a public fourm, they got a PUBLIC fourm, it is managed by the bzbb admins |
| 20:52.31 | bz45 | doesn't scare me stiff to talk in public |
| 20:52.31 | JefferyM | amdin issues with bzbb poilicy are discussed in private |
| 20:52.43 | JefferyM | if that's not good enough for you, fine |
| 20:53.01 | JefferyM | I've tried 3 times now to talk to you about it, and you ignore me |
| 20:53.05 | JefferyM | so we can ignore you. |
| 20:53.13 | bz45 | sorry. wasn't reading :) |
| 20:53.28 | JefferyM | we can discuss it in private, or not at all, your choice. |
| 20:53.47 | bz45 | ok, mr big boss who runs the whole world. in private it is then ;P |
| 20:54.20 | brad | keep it civil snick:) |
| 21:03.47 | *** join/#bzflag WarPig (n=DTMB@207.235.53.82) |
| 21:03.54 | JefferyM | or he could quit |
| 21:04.02 | *** join/#bzflag bz419 (n=500231e2@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:04.17 | bz419 | web irc client froze, or something like that |
| 21:04.25 | JefferyM | it happens |
| 21:17.04 | Mets | I vote we get rid of the forum and revert to using carrier pidgins that deliver little origami bzflag tanks with your desired message |
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| 21:31.02 | Think_Differentl | I second Mets idea. |
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| 21:48.45 | JefferyM | I still like the facebook idea |
| 21:48.52 | JefferyM | or somethign like that |
| 21:49.38 | JefferyM | I'd even break it into 3 parts, "project stuff", "Help stuff'", and "social stuff" |
| 21:50.08 | JefferyM | and get 3 different groups to manage it |
| 21:50.16 | JefferyM | devs/project admins do the project part |
| 21:50.29 | JefferyM | some sort of support group does the help part |
| 21:50.41 | JefferyM | and a group of trusted community members does the social part |
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| 21:52.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
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| 23:08.18 | *** join/#bzflag jroysdon (n=User@Ox.roysdon.org) |
| 23:08.56 | jroysdon | Hey, it's been forever (5 years?) since I played bzflag, but the kids are old enough now and getting into it. How/where do I put custom maps on the server? |
| 23:09.21 | blast007 | anywhere you want |
| 23:09.32 | blast007 | assuming you're wanting to host a server yourself |
| 23:09.44 | jroysdon | LOL, but how does it find it? Yes, to host it myself (we're just playing on our local LAN) |
| 23:09.46 | blast007 | you just have to tell bzfs (the server application) where the world is |
| 23:10.05 | jroysdon | Right, but, ah, that's part of it, the server app name (I was just starting it from the gui) |
| 23:10.26 | jroysdon | I'm not a noob, just a bzflag noob re-learning things ;-p |
| 23:10.29 | blast007 | yeah, the Start Server menu looks in a specific area |
| 23:10.36 | blast007 | what OS are you on? |
| 23:10.45 | jroysdon | Linux. I'm all set |
| 23:10.54 | jroysdon | I just need to start bsfz and tell it the map path |
| 23:11.02 | blast007 | ok |
| 23:11.10 | jroysdon | (the GUI probably assumes a directory, but I'll just put the maps in my bzfs user's home) |
| 23:11.17 | blast007 | bzfs -help or man bzfs would provide some info |
| 23:11.19 | jroysdon | Yup, yup |
| 23:11.26 | blast007 | if you don't know what an option does, you probably don't need to specify it |
| 23:11.27 | jroysdon | Just been a long time and I forgot about that |
| 23:11.35 | jroysdon | Oh, believe me, I used to know 'em all |
| 23:11.37 | blast007 | ;) |
| 23:11.43 | jroysdon | We'll re-tune it, I'm sure |
| 23:11.59 | jroysdon | Someone needs to make a Wii port too though |
| 23:12.02 | jroysdon | ;-) |
| 23:12.05 | blast007 | really can't |
| 23:12.13 | jroysdon | That and Warzone2100 |
| 23:12.20 | jroysdon | Oh? I don't know the Wii specs, but what prevents it? |
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| 23:14.55 | trepan | hm, http://images.bzflag.org/submitimages/ isn't all that accurate |
| 23:16.01 | blast007 | jroysdon: |
| 23:16.03 | blast007 | er |
| 23:16.17 | blast007 | jroysdon: mainly the fact that it wouldn't be legal to run a homebrew app on the system |
| 23:16.24 | jroysdon | oh, whatever |
| 23:16.28 | blast007 | since it requires a hardware modification |
| 23:16.32 | blast007 | or a hack of some kind |
| 23:16.40 | jroysdon | I signed no agreement with Nintendo - and homebrew requires no hardware hack |
| 23:17.24 | blast007 | you're free to port it, but it likely would not have any official project support |
| 23:17.29 | jroysdon | sure, sure |
| 23:18.01 | jroysdon | Wonder how big wiiware games can be? Hmm |
| 23:18.40 | jroysdon | It'd make for a sweet wiiware game... Charge whatever Nintendo's minimum fee ($5?) is and donate the extra back to the project |
| 23:19.01 | blast007 | :) |
| 23:19.46 | blast007 | "The development kit costs around US$2000 and developers need to be licensed with and approved by Nintendo." |
| 23:19.48 | Mets | I'd like a port for the psp too while you're at it if you don't mind :) |
| 23:20.06 | blast007 | really wouldn't be a port for either case |
| 23:20.10 | jroysdon | $2k is nothing, it is the licensed part that probably has all sorts of hoops |
| 23:20.11 | blast007 | more like a "rewrite" ;) |
| 23:20.34 | jroysdon | I wonder if Nintendo would even allow a gpl game to be ported and sold |
| 23:20.42 | spldart | hehe... a psp port would be kewl |
| 23:20.44 | jroysdon | (so long as the source is available, it meets the gpl requirements...) |
| 23:21.38 | blast007 | the xbox 360 is another platform that is cool, and costs a lot less to write a game for |
| 23:21.42 | blast007 | $100/year |
| 23:22.00 | blast007 | and that same game could run on the PC without (much) modification |
| 23:22.23 | Mets | but playing xbox homebrew, does ms allow that? |
| 23:23.41 | blast007 | they have a framework you can use to develop games for the PC, Xbox 360, and the Zune |
| 23:23.51 | blast007 | (the Zune doesn't support the 3D stuff though) |
| 23:23.59 | JefferyM | please don't talk about homebrew here, |
| 23:24.02 | JefferyM | XNA is fine tho |
| 23:24.07 | jroysdon | XNA? |
| 23:24.09 | JefferyM | just entered a contest |
| 23:24.19 | JefferyM | XNA is the xbox SDK that is free |
| 23:24.24 | blast007 | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/xna/default.aspx |
| 23:24.32 | Mets | hmm, did we ever think of putting it on xbox? |
| 23:24.37 | jroysdon | oh, the official stuff |
| 23:24.41 | blast007 | yeah, you just have to pay $100/year if you want to run development code on the Xbox |
| 23:24.48 | jroysdon | Hey, I'm all for the official stuff |
| 23:24.49 | JefferyM | Mets, sure just like any other console, rewrite it. |
| 23:24.57 | JefferyM | blast007, nope |
| 23:24.58 | Mets | lol jeff...gotcha |
| 23:25.04 | JefferyM | you can get a free membership |
| 23:25.08 | JefferyM | just enter the current contenst |
| 23:25.11 | JefferyM | I did |
| 23:25.27 | JefferyM | as son as they finsih upgrading the server, I'll be able to run code on my 360 |
| 23:25.33 | JefferyM | no home brew needed. |
| 23:25.37 | jroysdon | Cool |
| 23:25.54 | JefferyM | I just have to think of a game to make for the contest |
| 23:26.17 | blast007 | JefferyM: oh? sweet |
| 23:26.24 | JefferyM | want to be on my team? :) |
| 23:26.30 | blast007 | heh |
| 23:26.31 | JefferyM | we could win 40,000$ |
| 23:26.40 | blast007 | not like I'd be much of a help |
| 23:26.52 | blast007 | I could barely get that zune game working |
| 23:26.56 | jroysdon | Can anyone hit the wayback machine and do a search? I can get to the base page, but not do any searches... http://www.archive.org/i |
| 23:27.02 | jroysdon | http://www.archive.org/ |
| 23:27.28 | JefferyM | mets as for homebrew on the xbox ( using a moded console ) no that is not official |
| 23:27.37 | JefferyM | and not allowed |
| 23:27.50 | JefferyM | it involves breaking the console at some level, and that's the part we want to stay away from |
| 23:27.58 | blast007 | jroysdon: times out for me |
| 23:28.06 | JefferyM | doing an XNA version of bzflag would bassicly be a total rewrite |
| 23:28.08 | jroysdon | ok, so not just me |
| 23:28.12 | jroysdon | whines |
| 23:28.17 | JefferyM | mostly since XNA is just C# for right now |
| 23:28.23 | jroysdon | I wanna see what my old server settings were... bzflag.artoo.net |
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