| 00:05.07 | a_meteorite | CBG: yes |
| 00:13.06 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg (n=Default@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 00:13.07 | hwilde | so... what is the hud display nickname label called in observer mode? |
| 00:18.04 | JeffM | noone probably knows that off the top of there head man |
| 00:18.10 | JeffM | you need to research |
| 00:19.49 | hwilde | i don't know what else to search for |
| 00:19.56 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 00:20.43 | JeffM | then perhaps searching isn't the only kind of research you should do |
| 00:20.46 | JeffM | follow the code |
| 00:20.51 | JeffM | not everything has a "name" |
| 00:21.50 | hwilde | sure it does |
| 00:22.00 | hwilde | the whitespace doesnt draw labels - the code does |
| 00:22.09 | JeffM | code != a single "name" |
| 00:22.10 | hwilde | each thing on the screen has some symbol attached |
| 00:22.21 | JeffM | it may not be unique |
| 00:22.48 | JeffM | you want to track it probably by the logic that is used |
| 00:22.58 | hwilde | fine I will rephrase for the semantically obtuse: where in the code is the hud display nickname label in observer mode? |
| 00:23.06 | JeffM | dunno |
| 00:23.10 | JeffM | step thru and find out |
| 00:23.13 | JeffM | it's what we'd have to do |
| 00:23.15 | hwilde | i tracked it thru the ui |
| 00:23.21 | hwilde | Extended Observer Info |
| 00:23.38 | JeffM | then you should be able to see where it gets the string from |
| 00:24.01 | hwilde | figured HUDRenderer.cxxrenderTankLabels(renderer); |
| 00:24.21 | JeffM | possibly |
| 00:25.34 | JeffM | comment it out and see if they go away ;) |
| 00:25.42 | hwilde | no i want them to appear ! |
| 00:26.01 | JeffM | is that only called for observers? |
| 00:27.10 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.10 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:27.31 | JeffM | heh |
| 00:27.37 | JeffM | haven't programed in C long have you? |
| 00:27.48 | hwilde | lol what's wrong with that :) |
| 00:27.55 | JeffM | you don't need the if(1) |
| 00:28.03 | JeffM | just call the function |
| 00:28.20 | hwilde | i am :) |
| 00:28.32 | JeffM | inside an if that is always true |
| 00:28.40 | JeffM | so it's pointless |
| 00:28.47 | JeffM | if(1) function(); |
| 00:28.49 | JeffM | is the same as |
| 00:28.50 | hwilde | it's a reminder that there is supposed to be an if statement there. |
| 00:28.52 | JeffM | function(); |
| 00:29.01 | hwilde | it compiles equivalently |
| 00:29.05 | JeffM | true |
| 00:29.09 | hwilde | so it's a matter of personal readability |
| 00:29.09 | JeffM | but it's bad coding ;) |
| 00:29.21 | hwilde | anyways that doesn't do it |
| 00:29.24 | JeffM | how long have you been writing in C? |
| 00:30.04 | hwilde | i dunno i dont wear a watch |
| 00:30.16 | JeffM | nothing wrong with it |
| 00:30.23 | hwilde | there should be an odometer in bzflag lol |
| 00:30.24 | JeffM | it's just a bit obvious ;) |
| 00:30.32 | hwilde | how many miles do you have on your tank |
| 00:30.44 | JeffM | what is a "mile" in bzflag? |
| 00:31.13 | hwilde | how long ago did you lose your imagination |
| 00:31.26 | JeffM | yesterday when you loged on ;) |
| 00:31.36 | hwilde | lol |
| 00:31.39 | a_meteorite | hwilde: 5280 units |
| 00:31.49 | hwilde | nice |
| 00:31.53 | JeffM | a_meteorite: so a tank is only 2 feet long? |
| 00:31.54 | JeffM | wow |
| 00:32.00 | a_meteorite | uhhh, yeah! |
| 00:32.51 | a_meteorite | fine, ~406 units is a mile |
| 00:33.14 | a_meteorite | that makes the tank about 21 ft long, equivalent to the M1 Abrams |
| 00:33.38 | a_meteorite | er |
| 00:33.54 | a_meteorite | yeah. around there. |
| 00:34.06 | JeffM | yeah a one meter WU makes the tank very simiar to real world tanks |
| 00:34.08 | JeffM | little short |
| 00:34.15 | JeffM | but close in the otehrs |
| 00:34.35 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:34.45 | hwilde | fm.drawString(float(x) - fm.getStrLength(labelsFontFace, labelsFontSize, name) / 2.0f, |
| 00:34.45 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:34.45 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:34.48 | hwilde | that has to be it |
| 00:34.54 | blast007 | hwilde: so now you're writing a cheat client? ;) |
| 00:34.57 | JeffM | please use pastebin |
| 00:35.17 | steerpike | i'm going to hack my client to change the "useless" flag to say "nicholas cage" |
| 00:35.39 | hwilde | blast007, not if i cant find the darn label |
| 00:35.40 | JeffM | umm.... ok |
| 00:35.41 | blast007 | you're also apparently going to make it show labels in playing mode |
| 00:36.03 | blast007 | which would be a cheat, because AFAIK, that also shows ST tanks |
| 00:36.05 | a_meteorite | yeah, I would classify that as cheating... :\ |
| 00:36.18 | hwilde | oh it shows st ? |
| 00:36.26 | hwilde | how about everyone !st |
| 00:36.33 | JeffM | we have it hiden for players for a reason |
| 00:36.50 | JeffM | even in 3.0 we only did it automaticly for the tank in your "identify" zone |
| 00:37.05 | hwilde | sweet |
| 00:37.18 | hwilde | i bet it's easier to find there |
| 00:37.19 | JeffM | and that was mostly for IFF |
| 00:37.21 | a_meteorite | is/will 2.99/3.0 be more smart about what it sends the players? or is that going to be addressed with a gsoc project? |
| 00:37.39 | JeffM | a_meteorite: can you be a little more vauge please? |
| 00:37.56 | blast007 | it will send cheaters to bed without dinner. |
| 00:38.08 | a_meteorite | ie, sending distant updates, and having the client only knowing the flag ID where needed |
| 00:38.12 | a_meteorite | *not sending |
| 00:38.22 | JeffM | those are different things |
| 00:38.23 | a_meteorite | blast007: can I have it punch them over the internet too? |
| 00:38.28 | JeffM | flags have been redone |
| 00:38.31 | JeffM | ID is now serverside |
| 00:38.34 | JeffM | updates are the same |
| 00:38.41 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 00:39.44 | JeffM | as for SOC, I have not focused my clarvoiance on that subject yet so I do not know what student proejcts are yet to be submited and completed |
| 00:39.59 | hwilde | if it were purely display and not strategically advantageous would it still be cheating ? |
| 00:40.22 | JeffM | hwilde: depends where you use it |
| 00:40.24 | JeffM | on GU, yep |
| 00:40.45 | hwilde | why open src then if any mod = cheat |
| 00:40.46 | JeffM | actualy acording to current GU pollicy, you are currently a cheater, and should be banned |
| 00:40.57 | JeffM | hwilde: it's up to the server owners. |
| 00:41.06 | a_meteorite | just have the server render out each model on-screen and send it out to the client at 30 fps! no more cheating! |
| 00:41.08 | JeffM | if you want to make large changes to the game, for kit |
| 00:41.09 | a_meteorite | (kidding) |
| 00:41.18 | JeffM | fork it even |
| 00:41.39 | JeffM | I do doubt most server owners would fault you for showing names in play mode, but that is up to them |
| 00:41.48 | hwilde | how would they ever know |
| 00:41.56 | JeffM | they would read these logs |
| 00:41.58 | a_meteorite | doesn't labels show through obstructions? |
| 00:42.01 | JeffM | you would tell them |
| 00:42.06 | blast007 | a_meteorite: yes |
| 00:42.06 | JeffM | a_meteorite: it does |
| 00:42.07 | hwilde | but the names are cool |
| 00:42.08 | hwilde | why not show them |
| 00:42.11 | a_meteorite | if so, that's like radar on-screen even.. |
| 00:42.16 | JeffM | hwilde: many reasons |
| 00:42.24 | CBG | ~steerpike++ |
| 00:42.25 | JeffM | mostly to keep the game about skill, rather then vengance |
| 00:42.42 | JeffM | to not clutter the display |
| 00:42.44 | hwilde | you should sign on so i can kill you for saying that lol |
| 00:42.49 | JeffM | to let people HIDE behind stuff |
| 00:42.58 | hwilde | vengance is fun |
| 00:43.04 | JeffM | to a child, yes |
| 00:43.13 | hwilde | lol a child who plays a silly tank game |
| 00:43.23 | JeffM | indeed |
| 00:43.32 | hwilde | relax a little |
| 00:43.34 | a_meteorite | don't ever mess with jumping tanks. jumping tanks are very serious. |
| 00:43.35 | hwilde | its' a game |
| 00:43.41 | JeffM | I am quite relaxed |
| 00:43.52 | JeffM | hwilde: no this is actualy a dev channel for an open source proejct |
| 00:43.53 | joevano | hwilde: part of the issue is that people have forgotten how to enjoy a game |
| 00:44.01 | JeffM | that some people take very seriously since they put a lot of time in it ;) |
| 00:44.22 | joevano | they have to be the "best" no matter the cost, even if it compromises integrity and morals |
| 00:44.33 | hwilde | the devs have put tons of stuff into this but it's all hidden or disabled |
| 00:44.40 | JeffM | hwilde: if it really sounds like you want a fork, I think you'll be much more happy with one, then you can do whatever you want |
| 00:44.44 | CBG | Games are not to be enjoyed! They are to annoy! |
| 00:44.52 | hwilde | forks are so violent |
| 00:44.55 | JeffM | hwilde: nothing says the game has to have every possible feature |
| 00:44.57 | hwilde | spoons are nice and round |
| 00:45.03 | JeffM | then make your own spoon |
| 00:45.12 | joevano | hwilde: forks are violent only if they split the community |
| 00:45.12 | a_meteorite | a spork is much more advanced. |
| 00:45.13 | JeffM | or chopstick, whatever floats your boat |
| 00:45.27 | CBG | has a TShirt printed with the phrase: The game has to have every possible feature. |
| 00:45.28 | JeffM | hides his fork from joevano |
| 00:46.21 | JeffM | ask joevano what he thinks of its' logo tho ;) |
| 00:46.22 | CBG | Sporks are confusing to Waste Allocation Load Lifters. |
| 00:46.46 | hwilde | don't worry - your precious code integrity is safe |
| 00:46.52 | JeffM | hwilde: we know it is |
| 00:46.58 | JeffM | we controll who commits ;) |
| 00:47.00 | hwilde | i don't think it's possible to turn on the labels without observer mode |
| 00:47.05 | JeffM | it is |
| 00:47.14 | hwilde | prove me wrong, in form of code, with line numbers |
| 00:47.20 | JeffM | nope |
| 00:47.27 | a_meteorite | anything is possible in code |
| 00:47.32 | JeffM | anything is possible with the right changes |
| 00:47.34 | hwilde | lol |
| 00:47.40 | *** part/#bzflag steerpike (n=Unknown@unaffiliated/steerpike) |
| 00:47.44 | JeffM | it's not a joke |
| 00:47.52 | JeffM | you can make bzflag do ANYTHING you can think of |
| 00:47.59 | JeffM | well anything that the computer can do |
| 00:48.04 | hwilde | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:48.06 | a_meteorite | there is no magic assembler that says "well, only labels are for observers" |
| 00:48.07 | hwilde | that should be all it takes |
| 00:48.08 | JeffM | it's just software |
| 00:48.12 | a_meteorite | there's some if check somewhere that controls that. |
| 00:48.19 | JeffM | if it dosn't work use a debuger and step in to see why |
| 00:54.35 | hwilde | /const bool showTankLabels = BZDB.isTrue("displayLabels"); |
| 00:54.35 | hwilde | const bool showTankLabels = 1; |
| 00:54.38 | joevano | hwilde: it would also be smart not to advertise your IP address if you are making a cheat client |
| 00:54.49 | joevano | oops.. to late :P |
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| 00:55.07 | hwilde | just havin fun |
| 00:55.13 | hwilde | like i'm going to come here and advertise it |
| 00:55.24 | CBG | You already did. |
| 00:55.25 | joevano | it wouldnt be the first time |
| 00:55.28 | JeffM | what he means is he's probably just banning you right now |
| 00:56.18 | joevano | im not, but probably should |
| 00:56.20 | brlcad | waves to KingRobot |
| 00:56.24 | hwilde | oh no please don't banish me |
| 00:56.29 | hwilde | i'll never ask anymore questions i promise |
| 00:56.52 | JeffM | it's probably more about your attiude about it then the questions |
| 00:57.01 | hwilde | i can't even get it to work lol :) |
| 00:57.18 | JeffM | we know |
| 00:58.42 | KingRobot | hi brlcad |
| 01:16.10 | joevano | ~brlcad++ |
| 01:16.29 | joevano | nice sumbission to the mentor mailing list |
| 01:29.07 | brlcad | thx |
| 01:35.02 | spldart | oh boy... when do I need to have those student applicant submmissions reviewed by anywho 8-0... I was rebuilding my main back yard gate today... got 60% through the job... (its' nice to pull the hot rod in the back to do stuff like tranny work and stuff ;) ) |
| 01:36.00 | spldart | n'stuff |
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| 01:59.51 | brlcad | spldart: before the 2nd if they need to make changes/respond |
| 02:21.22 | Thumper_ | spldart: next interesting date is in the topic in that other channel |
| 02:35.18 | spldart | I guess the home improvements have me more distracted than I thought.... The fence work today was a 6 Shiner Bock project. |
| 02:35.53 | spldart | must become eminencly more aware of his surroundings... and his spelling ;) |
| 02:36.24 | spldart | I really must shower... I smell like Cedar and Pine. |
| 02:36.41 | delerious | could be worse |
| 02:36.57 | spldart | True... My main sewer line could have backed up. |
| 02:40.37 | BulletCatcher | brlcad: pong |
| 03:02.36 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: if you'd care to annotate your real name, feel free to update the AUTHORS file |
| 03:03.26 | KingRobot | brlcad: I'm looking at two ways of resolving the freetype issue within ftgl |
| 03:04.19 | KingRobot | brlcad: a] FTLibrary has a list of cleanup callback, which FTFace registers itself with; then FTFace tracks all instances of itself using a static list |
| 03:05.22 | KingRobot | brlcad: b] FTLibrary has a list of all FTFace instances, and FTFace adds and removes itself via some member function of FTLibrary |
| 03:07.06 | KingRobot | brlcad: Which do you like better> |
| 03:07.09 | brlcad | really, I must have missed that it already registers |
| 03:07.24 | KingRobot | brlcad: no, it doesn't |
| 03:07.31 | KingRobot | brlcad: those are my two proposed solutions |
| 03:07.51 | brlcad | ooh |
| 03:08.12 | brlcad | ah, heh, misread your first sentence :) |
| 03:08.46 | brlcad | ftlibrary is itself a static, so if you register an ftface with ftlibrary, you're good |
| 03:09.06 | brlcad | so probably b |
| 03:09.46 | KingRobot | okay; that means adding some public methods to FTLibrary addFace & deleteFace |
| 03:10.03 | brlcad | hm, and we can't do that.. |
| 03:10.37 | KingRobot | i think we can, but it'd be lame since the scope of said methods ought to be limited to FTGL |
| 03:11.44 | brlcad | gah, forgot about maintaining abi compat .. there's not much we can do save for a pair of private/static funcs |
| 03:12.31 | brlcad | no, I mean we can, but we "can't" without breaking binary compatibility in FTGL, which we have to maintain for this next release |
| 03:12.36 | brlcad | next ftgl release |
| 03:15.24 | KingRobot | hm |
| 03:15.33 | KingRobot | I think a could work without breaking it |
| 03:16.14 | KingRobot | assuming it's ok to add methods, but not remove or modify current ones |
| 03:16.28 | brlcad | you can't maintain C++ ABI if you add methods |
| 03:16.50 | KingRobot | ah |
| 03:17.07 | brlcad | size of the class changes, goes to hell |
| 03:17.22 | KingRobot | right |
| 03:17.37 | brlcad | you can only add new global funcs |
| 03:17.46 | brlcad | or change backend implementation |
| 03:18.06 | KingRobot | so we can't add or remove variables either then |
| 03:18.22 | brlcad | nope, not unless they're outside the class |
| 03:18.37 | KingRobot | Hmm |
| 03:18.41 | brlcad | so it may not be worth it after all |
| 03:18.53 | KingRobot | Can we add an entirely new class? |
| 03:19.33 | brlcad | er, I believe so -- what are you thinking? |
| 03:19.49 | KingRobot | We could create a FTCleanup singleton |
| 03:21.03 | KingRobot | ... register the FCFaces with it, and then fire a cleanup all to it from the FTLibrary destructor |
| 03:21.42 | KingRobot | ... and make it self-cleanup if it happens to be destroyed first. |
| 03:22.48 | KingRobot | no globals, and no new vars or methods involved |
| 03:22.56 | brlcad | yeah, I like it |
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| 05:26.13 | Will07c5 | I submitted my bzworkbench proposal, my opengl modularization proposal should follow soon :) |
| 05:31.59 | blast007 | cool |
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| 06:05.47 | Will07c5 | I have now submitted my opengl proposal, I look forward to seeing your comments |
| 06:09.36 | a_meteorite | can people besides mentors/devs read the proposals? |
| 06:11.16 | blast007 | only if they posted them on the wiki |
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| 06:12.01 | blast007 | I'm pretty sure proposals on the gsoc site are only viewable by mentors of that org |
| 06:12.46 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 06:17.03 | pacman87 | a_meteorite: you can read the winning proposals once they're chosen |
| 06:17.13 | a_meteorite | ok |
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| 07:29.51 | KingRobot | Consti! |
| 07:29.59 | Constitution | hey dozer |
| 07:30.18 | KingRobot | howzit? |
| 07:30.39 | Constitution | good... IM me ;) |
| 07:30.45 | KingRobot | 'k |
| 07:33.42 | KingRobot | brlcad: It appears it will be impractical or impossible to attempt to develop a proper fix for the FTGL bug without affecting the ABI. |
| 07:34.03 | brlcad | what happened with the class idea? |
| 07:34.22 | KingRobot | It comes down to how we hook into it |
| 07:35.01 | KingRobot | I built code that does something like this: |
| 07:35.08 | KingRobot | FTCleanup::Instance()->RegisterObject(this); |
| 07:35.25 | KingRobot | (That's called from the FTFace constructor) |
| 07:35.38 | KingRobot | Then... |
| 07:35.40 | KingRobot | FTCleanup::Instance()->UnregisterObject(this); |
| 07:35.49 | KingRobot | (That's called from the FTFace destructor) |
| 07:36.25 | KingRobot | Then in FTCleanup, it calls delete faceObject on all the faces remaining in the list |
| 07:37.16 | KingRobot | But that won't work, because some classes happen to have, instances of FTFace that aren't pointers. |
| 07:37.18 | brlcad | sounds about what I was expecting |
| 07:38.49 | KingRobot | So you'd want to call the destructor without deallocating the memory... |
| 07:39.11 | brlcad | nods |
| 07:39.35 | brlcad | I was thinking you would call this register not inside the constructor but wherever new FTFont is called |
| 07:40.03 | KingRobot | hmm |
| 07:40.14 | brlcad | hmm indeed, that won't work |
| 07:42.04 | KingRobot | further, even if we did call the destructor manually, the ones we're interested in do frees without any checks, so it would crash later when the real destructor was called |
| 07:42.29 | brlcad | well one thing that you could still do -- and is still in-line with FTLibrary's intended purpose -- is to not call delete but instead just call the freetype cleanup and zero the FT_Font pointer |
| 07:42.49 | KingRobot | That would be great |
| 07:42.58 | brlcad | we don't really care about freeing up the FTFont itself |
| 07:43.04 | KingRobot | except the variable we need to access to do that is a private variable |
| 07:43.11 | KingRobot | which we can't change without killing the abi |
| 07:44.28 | KingRobot | :( |
| 07:44.40 | brlcad | hm, and we could just stash the FT_Font pointer only and delete that, but then not sure that'd actually prevent the crash any differently |
| 07:45.20 | KingRobot | Hm |
| 07:45.24 | KingRobot | It may, actually |
| 07:47.13 | KingRobot | well, it would fix the one but reintroduce another... |
| 07:48.00 | KingRobot | Hmm... |
| 07:48.12 | KingRobot | We could though, track a pointer to the FT_Face pointer... |
| 07:48.55 | KingRobot | That would allow us to set it to zero after we freed it... which should prevent the crash. |
| 07:49.04 | KingRobot | Let me try that... |
| 07:49.33 | a_meteorite | ~literal bzfrag |
| 07:50.14 | jcp | ~literal cmd: bzfrag (.*?) |
| 07:50.15 | ibot | "cmd: bzfrag (.*?)" is "($1): <action> (fries $1 with a laser|destroys $1 with a guided missile|makes $1 feel the effects of a shockwave|blindsides $1 with an invisible bullet|skewers $1 with a super bullet|kills $1 with a shot from his BZTank|squishes $1 with a steamroller|tries to kill $1, but $1 finds the shield flag)" |
| 07:50.23 | jcp | a_meteorite: ping |
| 07:50.35 | a_meteorite | pong |
| 07:50.39 | jcp | See above |
| 07:50.42 | jcp | from ibot |
| 07:50.44 | jcp | just pasted to bzfx |
| 07:51.50 | brlcad | KingRobot: that still won't affect our FTFace object's FT_Face pointers -- they'll just be pointing to deallocated data |
| 07:52.41 | brlcad | unless there's someway to peek inside an FT_Face for some validity |
| 07:53.56 | KingRobot | it should be ok, since FTFace tracks validity by checking if the pointer if null, and once FT_Done_Face has been called, freetype won't track it anymore |
| 07:54.32 | brlcad | right, but it won't be null |
| 07:57.00 | KingRobot | it will, since we'll track a pointer to it in FTCleanup, which will allow us to manipulate it |
| 07:57.32 | brlcad | you mean a pointer to the private pointer in that object? |
| 07:57.53 | KingRobot | yeah, it'd be the only way to do it. |
| 08:01.07 | KingRobot | it's not very elegant at that point it terms of long-term cohesiveness |
| 08:01.37 | KingRobot | but if we're locked into the abi for now... |
| 08:10.35 | KingRobot | brlcad: it works - just tested it |
| 08:10.54 | KingRobot | want to see a patch? |
| 08:12.14 | brlcad | KingRobot: did you update already, because I made the other change already |
| 08:12.35 | KingRobot | brlcad: yes, but I commented that line out before testing |
| 08:12.46 | brlcad | the clear() in bzflag.cxx? |
| 08:12.51 | KingRobot | yep |
| 08:13.05 | brlcad | okay, sure post up the patch |
| 08:14.00 | KingRobot | (The patch will not include said comment...) |
| 08:16.05 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@cpc2-newe2-0-0-cust921.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 08:18.20 | KingRobot | brlcad: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2721799&group_id=3248&atid=303248 |
| 08:25.38 | brlcad | curious, what is the "Force the cleanup singleton instance here for thread safety" about? |
| 08:25.53 | brlcad | called after destroyall |
| 08:26.41 | Bulldozer | that line could probably be removed |
| 08:27.17 | brlcad | doesn't seem like it'll do anything |
| 08:27.28 | Bulldozer | but i don't know how the innards of bzflag work to call the FTFont constructors, which is the other place the singleton gets initialized |
| 08:27.53 | Bulldozer | so as long as you can be sure that two FTFonts don't get constructed simultaneously... |
| 08:27.55 | brlcad | pretty simple, look in src/3D/FontManager.cxx and look for FONT |
| 08:29.21 | Bulldozer | fair enough - like I said, I'm not familiar enough with the codebase yet :) |
| 08:29.27 | Bulldozer | sounds like it can just be removed |
| 08:31.37 | Bulldozer | shall I resubmit it? |
| 08:42.40 | brlcad | the patch looks good |
| 08:43.18 | Bulldozer | any other hard-to-solve bugs that have been around a while? ;) |
| 08:45.26 | Bulldozer | brlcad: Not that it's what I want to make be my project, but maybe I can knock a few more of them out before GSoC starts :) |
| 08:45.38 | brlcad | Bulldozer: heh, understood |
| 08:45.55 | brlcad | the bugs file would probalby be the place to look |
| 08:48.06 | brlcad | there's another one that is transient .. it gets fixed every few months only to return a few months later -- a nasty random crash/lockup if Lighting is enabled while playing -- getting that to happen with a debug build though is nearly impossible |
| 08:48.46 | brlcad | requires a remote debug sesstion, a platform that has the problem, a server/map that tends to provoke it more than others, and a little bit of luck |
| 08:49.42 | Bulldozer | hehe, nice... only happens in fullscreen? |
| 08:50.34 | brlcad | it's some obscure bug in the opengl state management which causes the opengl driver to crap out, which can cause all sorts of fun from locking up a machine, to crashing the window / display manager, to just freezing up |
| 08:51.43 | brlcad | basically, though .. best is usually to just play the game for a while, notice a bug, isolate it, then fix it |
| 08:52.49 | brlcad | I can't play the game without noticing a bug, know too much what is supposed to happen |
| 08:53.02 | Bulldozer | wow |
| 08:53.36 | brlcad | it'll usually be petty things, many/most that don't matter, but I see them |
| 08:54.12 | Bulldozer | the most i've seen are messed up graphics, and odd things that hardly ever happen like getting flattened in a teleporter |
| 08:54.19 | brlcad | gives one of the other mentors a chance to apply the patch |
| 08:55.46 | brlcad | yeah, there are minor display bugs, collision detection bugs, input processing bugs, dead reckoning bugs, bot player bugs, .. |
| 08:56.18 | brlcad | either way, nice work with the patch |
| 08:56.23 | brlcad | nice to have the problem solved! |
| 08:56.23 | Bulldozer | thanks |
| 08:56.28 | brlcad | doubly so |
| 08:56.39 | brlcad | ~Bulldozer++ |
| 08:57.01 | Constitution | ~Bulldozer++ |
| 08:57.07 | Constitution | ~karma KingRobot |
| 08:57.07 | ibot | kingrobot has neutral karma |
| 08:57.09 | Constitution | ~karma Bulldozer |
| 08:57.09 | ibot | bulldozer has karma of 3 |
| 08:57.14 | Constitution | good ;) |
| 08:57.22 | Bulldozer | :) |
| 08:57.26 | Bulldozer | btw, i'm not even able to get the bots to run with trunk... do you know if they should work as is? |
| 08:57.29 | Constitution | otherwise you end up with problems like |
| 08:57.31 | Constitution | ~karma JeffM |
| 08:57.31 | ibot | jeffm has karma of 75 |
| 08:57.35 | Constitution | ~karma JeffM2501 |
| 08:57.35 | ibot | jeffm2501 has karma of 384 |
| 08:57.46 | brlcad | Bulldozer: which bots? |
| 08:57.51 | Bulldozer | bzrobots |
| 08:58.07 | brlcad | ah, the worked last I tested them .. but that was a long while ago |
| 08:58.24 | Bulldozer | i get segfaults and they won't join as anything other than observer |
| 08:58.47 | brlcad | there are client bots too, bzflag -solo #bots |
| 08:59.18 | Bulldozer | oh, you were referring to those ones |
| 09:00.06 | Bulldozer | i figure i will save working on bzrobots for if i get in, and work on other things for now. |
| 09:00.22 | brlcad | right, those bots are the oldest |
| 09:00.26 | brlcad | (-solo) |
| 09:00.33 | Bulldozer | gtocha |
| 09:00.34 | brlcad | they should work |
| 09:04.49 | *** join/#bzflag kumarabhi (n=chatzill@115.241.19.173) |
| 09:05.32 | Bulldozer | well, have class in the morning |
| 09:05.48 | Bulldozer | ~brlcad++ (for all the input on the bugfix) |
| 09:06.39 | *** part/#bzflag Bulldozer (n=mathew@unaffiliated/kingrobot) |
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| 09:38.09 | *** join/#bzflag nightstrike (n=nightstr@mnit.ac.in) |
| 09:38.42 | nightstrike | brlcad, have you seen my proposal? |
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| 11:23.23 | Wyk3d | is .htaccess used by apache on .bz ? |
| 12:03.31 | nightstrike_ | needs more comments for his proposal :( |
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| 13:42.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
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| 14:42.54 | joevano | snmp-server community cacti RO |
| 14:44.29 | *** join/#bzflag black_pearl (i=hfgtf@h1342075.stratoserver.net) |
| 14:44.56 | joevano | huh? wonder where that came from |
| 14:57.03 | *** join/#bzflag Cygal (n=cygal@zancdar.eu) |
| 15:07.47 | *** join/#bzflag nightstrike (n=nightstr@mnit.ac.in) |
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| 15:26.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 16:07.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JefferyM] by ChanServ |
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| 16:25.15 | *** join/#bzflag kumarabhi (n=chatzill@115.241.198.29) |
| 16:35.22 | JefferyM | Cobra_Slow, why do you want to spam all the servers? |
| 16:37.07 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@rikers.org) |
| 16:37.07 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || Latest Release: 2.0.12 (linux), 2.0.10 (everyone else) || We have been accepted as a mentoring org for GSoC2009 |
| 16:37.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 16:38.39 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 16:43.25 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 0386.143.76.236 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5630 10/w/Flag_ideas: /* List of flag ideas to process to new fomrat: */ If it doesn't make sense, find tobylane (me) ingame or forums. |
| 16:44.08 | *** join/#bzflag KingRobot (n=KingRobo@unaffiliated/kingrobot) |
| 16:46.15 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 0386.143.76.236 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5631 10/w/Flag_ideas: /* List of flag ideas to process to new fomrat: */ |
| 16:46.51 | JefferyM | who did that last one? |
| 16:47.38 | TimRiker | how come there's no name on either? just an ip? |
| 16:47.45 | JefferyM | they didn't login |
| 16:47.46 | brlcad | anonymouse edits |
| 16:48.02 | JefferyM | I'm in the process of converting the page to the new format, so stop editing it ;) |
| 16:48.02 | dexter- | giggles |
| 16:48.06 | brlcad | hey TimRiker, ltns |
| 16:48.13 | brlcad | throws a mouse at dexter- |
| 16:48.16 | dexter- | AAH |
| 16:48.43 | brlcad | JefferyM: you could lock the page first |
| 16:48.50 | JefferyM | no.. no I can't |
| 16:48.53 | brlcad | ? |
| 16:49.02 | JefferyM | I are not admin |
| 16:49.07 | dexter- | lol |
| 16:49.09 | brlcad | why? |
| 16:49.20 | TimRiker | waves. I'm alive at the moment dealing with bot issues. freenode's, "5 connection per account" causing grief. I just killed jbot and renamed the bot in those channels. |
| 16:49.21 | JefferyM | religous differecnes |
| 16:51.38 | brlcad | TimRiker: alive 'at the moment' is good. zombie status is fun for a while, but the brains do get old after a while, don't they.. gsoc is on again if you want to get another t-shirt / mentor / review, etc |
| 16:52.43 | *** join/#bzflag leeguy92 (n=lee@host86-153-196-172.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:54.05 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5632 10/w/Flag_Ideas_To_Convert: move the badly formated flags to there own page to make conversion simpler |
| 16:54.20 | *** join/#bzflag leeguy92 (n=lee@host86-153-196-172.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:54.59 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5633 10/w/Flag_ideas: remove the flags to convert and link to a new page |
| 16:59.46 | dexter- | JefferyM, btw, that wasn't me earlier :p |
| 17:02.19 | *** join/#bzflag trevor- (n=trevor@c213-100-52-86.swipnet.se) |
| 17:02.25 | trevor- | hi |
| 17:03.38 | JefferyM | hello |
| 17:03.40 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5634 10/w/Flag_ideas: format conversions |
| 17:03.48 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5635 10/w/Flag_Ideas_To_Convert: move to new format |
| 17:16.30 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5636 10/w/Flag_ideas: format conversions |
| 17:16.31 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5637 10/w/Flag_Ideas_To_Convert: move to new format |
| 17:17.09 | JefferyM | man that's a big list |
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| 17:30.29 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5638 10/w/Flag_Ideas_To_Convert: move to new format |
| 17:30.32 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5639 10/w/Flag_ideas: format conversions |
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| 17:33.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 17:41.24 | nightstrike | hey JefferyM, can I get some directions for the OpenGL code modularization project? |
| 17:41.34 | JefferyM | such as? |
| 17:42.12 | nightstrike | I remember you telling something about the render nodes or something being scattered around the code |
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| 17:42.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 17:42.20 | nightstrike | something on that maybe? |
| 17:42.36 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5640 10/w/Flag_ideas: format conversions |
| 17:42.46 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5641 10/w/Flag_ideas/Rejected: format conversions |
| 17:42.49 | JefferyM | the render nodes ARNT scattered around |
| 17:42.50 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5642 10/w/Flag_Ideas_To_Convert: move to new format |
| 17:43.04 | JefferyM | the actual world/tank scene should be prety easy to do |
| 17:43.10 | JefferyM | its' allready in a sceene system |
| 17:43.21 | JefferyM | it's the background, effects, and hud system that needs the most work |
| 17:43.26 | nightstrike | hmmm... |
| 17:43.26 | nightstrike | ok |
| 17:43.35 | nightstrike | I saw a lot of code related to the HUD in src/bzflag |
| 17:43.42 | JefferyM | most of the world drawing is wraped up in the geometry project |
| 17:43.43 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 17:43.48 | JefferyM | there are 2 types of "hud" things |
| 17:43.48 | nightstrike | so all that needs moving to a separate library eh? |
| 17:43.55 | JefferyM | the in game hud, and the menu system |
| 17:43.59 | nightstrike | ok |
| 17:44.05 | JefferyM | I'd like the menu stuff renamed to just GUI |
| 17:44.13 | JefferyM | and the hud stuff to stay hud |
| 17:44.14 | nightstrike | fine... |
| 17:44.26 | JefferyM | the gui drawing should be pretty centralised too |
| 17:44.31 | JefferyM | it's all in a gui element API |
| 17:44.36 | JefferyM | it's the in game one that is acky |
| 17:44.38 | JefferyM | wacky |
| 17:44.41 | JefferyM | scoreboard, etc.. |
| 17:44.51 | JefferyM | I think it would be cool to have a scoreboard renderer class too |
| 17:44.57 | JefferyM | so that it'd be easy to extend |
| 17:45.05 | JefferyM | OR, we just draw the hud with lua ;) |
| 17:45.14 | JefferyM | so people can overide the crap out of it |
| 17:45.25 | trepan | ScoreboardRenderer.h |
| 17:45.29 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 17:45.33 | trepan | already exists |
| 17:45.35 | JefferyM | cool |
| 17:45.40 | nightstrike | fine |
| 17:45.44 | JefferyM | then that should be easy to move ;) |
| 17:45.57 | nightstrike | so looks like I'll need a lot more work before I can whip out another proposal eh? |
| 17:46.00 | JefferyM | the GL one is the simplest of them all I think |
| 17:46.05 | JefferyM | naw |
| 17:46.10 | JefferyM | it's pretty easy |
| 17:46.29 | brlcad | er, why rename the menu pages?? |
| 17:46.39 | brlcad | those classes are pretty simple enough as it is |
| 17:46.51 | JefferyM | the page are yea, that wasn't what I was talking about |
| 17:46.53 | nightstrike | and it won't look good if I simply modify my current proposal |
| 17:46.56 | JefferyM | the HUDUI things |
| 17:46.57 | brlcad | one of the few unsurprising things in the client code that are easy to navigate and change |
| 17:47.00 | JefferyM | cus they arn't really HUD |
| 17:47.10 | JefferyM | they are menyUI |
| 17:47.19 | brlcad | example class? |
| 17:47.22 | brlcad | or file? |
| 17:47.33 | JefferyM | all those elements that we draw the menus with |
| 17:47.42 | JefferyM | I don't have a tree here |
| 17:47.48 | JefferyM | like the list box, etc.. |
| 17:47.59 | brlcad | ah, the HUDui classes? |
| 17:48.04 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 17:48.15 | JefferyM | seems odd they are named HUD and arn't used in the in game hud ;) |
| 17:48.37 | JefferyM | just to have a clearer name split between the menu interface and the in game hud interface |
| 17:48.40 | brlcad | depends what you consider the "HUD" really, made sense to me |
| 17:48.46 | JefferyM | because we really do treat them seperate in the game |
| 17:48.52 | JefferyM | you enter and exit menu mode |
| 17:49.00 | JefferyM | like an overlay |
| 17:49.06 | brlcad | anything non-3D-view is a hud element |
| 17:49.09 | nightstrike | so can you give me a possible classification of the graphics code? |
| 17:49.20 | nightstrike | for instance... HUD, Menu, Rendering, etc. etc... |
| 17:49.22 | JefferyM | nightstrike, the geometry lib |
| 17:49.28 | JefferyM | yeah all of that |
| 17:49.34 | JefferyM | anything that draws |
| 17:49.38 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19551 10/trunk/bzflag/ (11 files in 3 dirs): |
| 17:49.38 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: * added a run-time GL version check (glew makes it easy) |
| 17:49.38 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: * started to add the re-entrancy indicator for events and call-ins |
| 17:49.40 | JefferyM | and sets up an openGL window ;) |
| 17:50.05 | nightstrike | hmmm... |
| 17:50.15 | brlcad | messing with the HUD classes just seems distractionary other than to refactor their ogl to be instructions instead of actual ogl calls |
| 17:50.17 | JefferyM | brlcad, I see HUD in the classical sense, the heads up display to give the pilot info. the game menus are things that take you OUT of the imersion |
| 17:50.17 | nightstrike | was thinking of taking the same line as my first proposal |
| 17:50.27 | JefferyM | true, but I can wish |
| 17:50.34 | brlcad | JefferyM: I know what you mean.. i'm just saying that's not how the code defines the HUD |
| 17:50.36 | JefferyM | nightstrike, there is less work to do |
| 17:50.46 | JefferyM | brlcad, I know, I think it should ;) |
| 17:51.08 | JefferyM | nightstrike, I'd expect to see a main renderer class that spits out the interfaces for the rest of the drawing |
| 17:51.14 | JefferyM | it gives out rendernodes etc... |
| 17:51.20 | JefferyM | and maintains it's own sceenenode |
| 17:51.29 | JefferyM | then we could swap that class out when we needed |
| 17:51.40 | JefferyM | it and it would have an API to update the tanks and shots etc.. |
| 17:51.48 | JefferyM | very similar to what we have now, just wraped up |
| 17:51.55 | nightstrike | hmmm... |
| 17:51.57 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19552 10/trunk/bzflag/include/bzfgl.h: * removed the compile-time OpenGL version 1.1 check (it's pointless, glew.h defines it) |
| 17:52.01 | brlcad | sounds like a refactoring project in itself really, with potential to mess up the menu functionality and cause more bugs than would be gained by a name change |
| 17:52.10 | JefferyM | unlike the game lib we actualy have most of the meachinsms in place |
| 17:52.15 | JefferyM | they just are not singluar |
| 17:52.21 | JefferyM | brlcad, ok |
| 17:52.22 | brlcad | the ogl task shouldn't mess with that stuff as part of the task other than to remove the ogl calls, it's too much |
| 17:52.41 | JefferyM | the gl project is mostly just a refactor job anyway |
| 17:52.49 | JefferyM | the code won't be shared with anyone else |
| 17:52.51 | brlcad | it is, but there has to be some containment |
| 17:52.54 | JefferyM | it's just so that we have it replaceable |
| 17:53.05 | brlcad | that code is already fairly stable |
| 17:53.08 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 17:53.32 | JefferyM | and it won't have any additional requirements when it's refactored, unlike the game project will |
| 17:54.15 | brlcad | I could see having the HUDui classes declare their ui via some display description, display lists, drawing instructions, whatever.. as part of the ogl, but not changing their whole execution/callback nature and basic logic in the process |
| 17:54.20 | JefferyM | for the SOC project, re the hud and menus it's be fine to just make sure all those menu and hud classes are in the same lib or class structure |
| 17:54.37 | JefferyM | brlcad, I was getting to that ;) |
| 17:54.56 | JefferyM | yeah it'd be nice to have the hud system be made more flexable |
| 17:55.04 | JefferyM | more data driiven |
| 17:55.07 | brlcad | later :) |
| 17:55.15 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 17:55.17 | trepan | scriptable? :) |
| 17:55.21 | JefferyM | but if the project could get us ready for that |
| 17:55.25 | brlcad | luatastic |
| 17:55.36 | JefferyM | I say we just draw the entire in game hud in lua |
| 17:55.37 | JefferyM | right now |
| 17:55.43 | brlcad | heh |
| 17:55.46 | JefferyM | provide those scripts and let people edit them |
| 17:55.51 | trepan | very little is missing to make the possible |
| 17:55.53 | JefferyM | then that takes the in game hud out of the OGL project |
| 17:56.06 | JefferyM | or maybe part of the OGL project is implmenting the lua scripts for that hud? |
| 17:56.15 | brlcad | thinks that this would be the wrong time to do that, we need to release |
| 17:56.24 | JefferyM | you said that last year |
| 17:56.27 | JefferyM | what's another year? |
| 17:56.33 | brlcad | and I'll keep saying it |
| 17:56.51 | brlcad | maybe just means we're not fighting the big changes enough |
| 17:56.57 | JefferyM | hows logging doing? ;) |
| 17:57.06 | brlcad | it's fantastic |
| 17:57.35 | brlcad | there is absolutely nothing being held up by lack of progress on logging |
| 17:57.40 | JefferyM | I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for nightstrike but that's what we got :) |
| 17:57.51 | brlcad | there is, however, things being held up by bugs, instability, network changes, gui changes |
| 17:57.55 | JefferyM | basicly it's more of a gruntwork poject |
| 17:58.12 | trepan | brlcad: what's being held up by what? |
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| 17:58.19 | brlcad | release |
| 17:58.44 | trepan | likes the specifics ... current gating items? |
| 17:58.48 | brlcad | critical instabilities due to pretty major changes that don't get fully tested/debugged |
| 17:59.02 | trepan | like the font system |
| 17:59.10 | brlcad | I'll have to fire up the list -- DR was a huge one but was recently fixed I hear? |
| 17:59.12 | trepan | seems that got fixed, so what's next? |
| 17:59.17 | brlcad | font system was another, but fixed |
| 17:59.31 | JefferyM | I don't think DR is fully fixed |
| 17:59.32 | JefferyM | it's better |
| 17:59.36 | brlcad | they're getting fixed, but I bet a 10 minute game session and I could find another |
| 17:59.37 | JefferyM | but not fully fixed |
| 17:59.54 | JefferyM | I know one of the other fixes for DR but I dont' want to do it ;) |
| 18:00.07 | brlcad | there's a ogl state problem still if lighting is enabled that causes ogl driver crashes |
| 18:00.18 | JefferyM | on all OSs? |
| 18:00.18 | trepan | sounds like a driver bug |
| 18:00.21 | adityav | Hi, can anyone point me to link of the text file which had contents of all the files from which gl code had to be extracted out( GSOC) |
| 18:00.32 | brlcad | more an issue of garbage in -> garbage behavior |
| 18:00.45 | JefferyM | adityav, we don't really maintain one, just search the code for gl |
| 18:01.03 | adityav | okie |
| 18:01.05 | JefferyM | and we just had a discussion about it so you can read it form the log |
| 18:01.10 | brlcad | one issue was found/fixed during the summit, but there is still something awry |
| 18:01.24 | brlcad | adityav: trepan has a link of all the ogl files |
| 18:01.31 | trepan | http://trepan.bzflag.bz/gl-files.txt |
| 18:01.36 | brlcad | there ya go |
| 18:01.40 | nightstrike | no, its kind of what I was looking for |
| 18:01.54 | nightstrike | i'll just rummage through the code tomorrow and see if I can make another proposal |
| 18:01.58 | nightstrike | else I'll stick to one :D |
| 18:02.36 | JefferyM | the other change to make to DR is checking when a tank hits the side of an object, and set it's XY vector to 0, and build a temporary DR anchor at that point |
| 18:02.40 | JefferyM | then it'll slide down the building |
| 18:02.45 | brlcad | nightstrike: two are recommended if you have the time :) |
| 18:02.46 | JefferyM | we'll get a real DR update shortly |
| 18:03.05 | nightstrike | brlcad: it's a hell of a week for me, super hectic. Hence the problem! |
| 18:03.08 | JefferyM | so it'll just prevent the little jerky that'll happen when they hit a thing |
| 18:04.27 | JefferyM | there is always going to be a slightly greater jump when we get the updates for most people in 3.0, but it's one of the side effects of being more accurate |
| 18:04.39 | JefferyM | I can draw a picture if anyone cares about it |
| 18:06.44 | brlcad | trepan: I think texture preloading is arguably a show-stopper at the moment -- there are nasty delays when textures are first displayed that we didn't use to have (like when you first fire, when menus first display, etc) |
| 18:07.10 | brlcad | upwards of a solid second or more delay sometimes |
| 18:08.40 | trepan | the longest delay i've seen has come from menu is first displayed |
| 18:08.55 | trepan | (or if it is being displayed during a "recontexting") |
| 18:09.04 | JefferyM | my gut says the font system is screwing the state |
| 18:09.26 | brlcad | font system was at least originally very clean state-wise -- it was tested outside of bz independently |
| 18:09.34 | brlcad | and when first added, there wasn't any delay |
| 18:09.54 | JefferyM | the font system when I wrote it didn't use the bzflag GLState classes |
| 18:09.55 | brlcad | so it should be possible to fix it |
| 18:10.05 | JefferyM | and I think that's where the problem is |
| 18:10.16 | JefferyM | something confilcting with our state management class |
| 18:10.26 | brlcad | the Advance() preloading was removed iirc, so that is probably part of the delay |
| 18:10.35 | brlcad | dont' remember why someone did that |
| 18:10.37 | JefferyM | possibly |
| 18:10.44 | JefferyM | I thought you did it |
| 18:10.54 | JefferyM | you ripped it a new one once, to find crashes |
| 18:11.14 | JefferyM | the preload helped a lot when I first wrote it, that's why I put it in there |
| 18:11.16 | brlcad | nah, that bit was done by others trying to find the crashes |
| 18:11.47 | JefferyM | I may be wrong, it's just my gut feel |
| 18:11.48 | brlcad | I ripped the containers a new one, actually made them a little more simple iirc |
| 18:11.55 | brlcad | no dual containers any more |
| 18:12.08 | JefferyM | I only know how it used to work before it was BZified |
| 18:13.14 | brlcad | hm, looks like Advance is back in there now during file load |
| 18:14.36 | brlcad | it's even a little foreign to me at this point, *lots* of changes by others from the look of the logs |
| 18:19.01 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5643 10/w/Flag_ideas/Rejected: Rejected Extra Sight (too complex) |
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| 19:34.40 | adityav | I am trying to work on getting opengl codes together for GSOC. As i go through the files, i am finding that lots of code uses retained modes. |
| 19:35.05 | adityav | uses immediate mode ( glVertex[]() calls) |
| 19:35.37 | adityav | is optimising that also part of the project? |
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| 19:41.43 | adityav | I am also finding a lots of transformation and other type of codes which are considered depricated for ogl v3.x.. |
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| 20:01.53 | JefferyM | adityav, not really |
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| 20:03.28 | JefferyM | the idea is to get the code consoldated first, then we can look at it all together to see what optimisations we can make |
| 20:03.40 | JefferyM | it may be that we just get rid of that rendreing code, and go with a third party engine |
| 20:03.40 | Cygal | I'm working on the bug fixing project for gsoc. While reading the backlog, I saw that some important bugs are not in the BUGS file, and not in the bug tracker. Should I ignore them in my list? They seem to be important.. |
| 20:04.22 | JefferyM | if they are known issues, may as well mention them |
| 20:05.03 | Cygal | I only know they exist because brlcad mentioned them earlier :) |
| 20:05.08 | JefferyM | k |
| 20:05.20 | JefferyM | just means they need to be added to bugs or SF |
| 20:05.33 | Cygal | sure |
| 20:06.56 | Cygal | second question, how can I set precise milestones for my project? it is even more difficult for bugs - I can't know how much time closing *one* bug can take, it depends on too many things that I can't foresee. Any advices? |
| 20:07.13 | JefferyM | yeah that's a hard one |
| 20:07.46 | JefferyM | I'd not worry so much about specific milestones |
| 20:07.58 | JefferyM | but just give us an idea of what your gut feeling on a very rough timeframe would be |
| 20:08.24 | JefferyM | like "I hope to be done with at least 40% of the bugs in group A by this time" |
| 20:08.33 | JefferyM | we won't hold you too anything specific |
| 20:13.07 | Cygal | ok, thanks |
| 20:17.44 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5653 10/w/Flag_ideas: /* Unrated Flag Ideas */ reject some good flags |
| 20:18.49 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5654 10/w/Flag_ideas/Rejected: reject some good flags |
| 20:18.55 | Erroneous | reassembles his mouse |
| 20:22.53 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5655 10/w/Flag_ideas: /* Shield (SH) */ not a new flag but a server mode |
| 20:30.37 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5656 10/w/Flag_ideas: /* Rejections */more info about why some ideas just don't fit the game |
| 20:30.50 | JefferyM | yay, the flag page is now readable :) |
| 20:34.07 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5657 10/w/Flag_ideas: Idea Submission Guidelines- where to put new ideas |
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| 20:59.11 | Bulldozer | ping JeffM2501 |
| 20:59.29 | JefferyM | ? |
| 20:59.58 | Bulldozer | Have you had a chance to look over the BZRobot app again? |
| 21:00.12 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 21:00.12 | Bulldozer | Or should I take this as a sign that the robots probably wont make it at this point...? |
| 21:00.22 | JefferyM | I didn't have any more comments |
| 21:00.29 | JefferyM | you addressed what we talked about |
| 21:00.31 | JefferyM | so that's good |
| 21:00.35 | JefferyM | oh I woudln't say that |
| 21:00.46 | JefferyM | we don't fully review them and decide till after the deadline |
| 21:00.55 | JefferyM | we just go over for reworks now |
| 21:01.14 | Bulldozer | I've submitted a backup proposal for bugfixing; if you have any thoughts about that, I'd appreciate it. |
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| 21:17.46 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03DTRemenak 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5658 10/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: remove if-accepted verbage |
| 21:20.18 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03DTRemenak 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5659 10/w/Google_Summer_of_Code: rm more if-accepted verbage |
| 21:31.19 | brad | ~catay++ |
| 21:48.10 | brlcad | Cygal: they'd need to be verified -- they may not be in the BUGS file any longer because they are fixed too |
| 21:50.19 | Erroneous | discovers that Bulldozer and KingRobot are the same, and is enlightened. |
| 21:51.13 | Erroneous | observes that he maybe should have read the applications sooner :) |
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| 21:51.56 | Bulldozer | congratulates Erroneous on his state of enlightenment. |
| 21:52.10 | Erroneous | thanks :) I'm a slow one... |
| 21:53.06 | Erroneous | is annoyed that so few students actually followed directions and included their irc nick in their proposals |
| 21:56.00 | Erroneous | has another moment of enlightenment as he realizes that those few students are also exactly the same ones that followed the other directions and submitted a patch |
| 21:56.30 | Bulldozer | did his best to follow directions :) |
| 21:56.38 | Erroneous | and a fine job you did :) |
| 21:57.11 | Erroneous | writes up some generic "please read the directions" boilerplate to paste in a bunch of app comments |
| 21:57.45 | Bulldozer | ... although in defense of whoever didn't, brlcad did say that it was "OK" to submit a patch at a later time than submitting the application. |
| 21:58.23 | Erroneous | yup, it is. just noticing the 100% correlation between those that didn't include their irc nicks, and those that haven't done patches |
| 21:58.43 | Bulldozer | Fascinating |
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| 21:59.37 | Erroneous | still a few more days for apps to come in, too |
| 22:02.20 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03catay * r19553 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ListServerConnection.cxx: |
| 22:02.20 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: Fixes a bug when a player with a higher playerid ghosts one with a lower |
| 22:02.20 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: playerid. In the above case the player his bzid is never set as it gets |
| 22:02.20 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: only set for the first matching callsign which is in this case the ghosted |
| 22:02.20 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: player. Added an extra check to verify if the player is in the 'verified' |
| 22:02.22 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: state before setting the bzid. |
| 22:04.08 | Bulldozer | So what do you guys do when you're NOT working on bz development? :) |
| 22:04.22 | dexter- | play bz! |
| 22:04.36 | TyroneFHornigh | Sleep |
| 22:05.31 | Erroneous | Bulldozer: real work :) |
| 22:05.53 | Bulldozer | Erroneous: What kind? :) |
| 22:06.43 | Erroneous | I'm a project manager for a CAD/CAM software firm. Others, naturally, have other fields. |
| 22:06.58 | JefferyM | well others except for me |
| 22:07.11 | dexter- | hehe |
| 22:07.23 | Erroneous | well, we have different jobs, even if we do work at the same place |
| 22:07.29 | JefferyM | indeed |
| 22:07.36 | JefferyM | still same field |
| 22:07.50 | JefferyM | assuming I could get dev to friggin post |
| 22:07.57 | Erroneous | true. and you could say brlcad is in the same field too, depending how you defined it |
| 22:08.02 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:08.05 | JefferyM | he's very similar |
| 22:08.11 | JefferyM | tho not so much CAM |
| 22:08.49 | Bulldozer | Not AutoCAD... |
| 22:09.02 | JefferyM | we know people that work for autodesk |
| 22:09.27 | Erroneous | Bulldozer: but when it comes down to it, most of us are real people. so when we're not working on bz, we work, play, sleep (occasionally), etc ;) |
| 22:09.38 | Bulldozer | lol - most of you? |
| 22:09.48 | JefferyM | eye's CIA |
| 22:09.53 | Bulldozer | :) |
| 22:10.06 | Bulldozer | So we're all a bunch of engineering folks... |
| 22:10.14 | Erroneous | Bulldozer: there are some I haven't met, so I wouldn't presume to pass judgement on them ;) |
| 22:10.40 | Erroneous | I, for one, welcome our alien bzflag-coding overlords |
| 22:11.17 | JefferyM | I would call them "real people" no matter where they are born |
| 22:11.44 | Erroneous | some of them may be artificial intelligences |
| 22:11.58 | JefferyM | they would still be real |
| 22:12.30 | JefferyM | is not biased just for meat based processors |
| 22:12.48 | Erroneous | depends whether you define real and artificial as antonyms or not |
| 22:13.27 | JefferyM | to me artificial just means that it was designed and manufactured by another intelegenge in a controlled way ;) |
| 22:13.43 | dexter- | intelegenge, lol |
| 22:13.45 | JefferyM | ibot may be artificial, but he isn't people |
| 22:13.55 | Erroneous | some would hold that you and I were designed and manufactured by another intelligence in a controlled way ;) |
| 22:14.04 | JefferyM | indeed |
| 22:14.10 | JefferyM | and cows |
| 22:14.13 | TyroneFHornigh | What if it wasn't so controlled? (e.g. Victor Frankenstein) |
| 22:14.31 | JefferyM | so they are just as "artificial" as Twinkies |
| 22:14.47 | Erroneous | well, whatever. I don't care what your origin is, you're welcome to work on bzflag :) |
| 22:14.59 | JefferyM | indeed |
| 22:16.36 | JefferyM | ok, the very fact that you can define a user controll in a friggin DL, add a refrence to it in a project, and have the Form editor pick up on that. THAT's AWESOME |
| 22:17.39 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 22:17.45 | Erroneous | it's almost like, y'know, modular design |
| 22:17.54 | JefferyM | and tools that use it |
| 22:18.01 | Erroneous | you know that's how I wrote the macro dialog editor, right? |
| 22:18.07 | JefferyM | no |
| 22:18.25 | Erroneous | it's a c# app that derives from the .net form designer framework |
| 22:19.27 | Erroneous | works just like visual studio...because it's *using the same code* |
| 22:21.17 | Erroneous | what should we set as a patch deadline? Apr 10, 12? |
| 22:21.46 | Erroneous | we have until the 15th to evaluate the proposals |
| 22:23.16 | Erroneous | 10th gives a week after submissions are done. nice round number. |
| 22:24.46 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03DTRemenak 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5660 10/w/Google_Summer_of_Code: /* [[Google Summer of Code/2009|2009 (more details here)]] */ not just waiting anymore |
| 22:29.01 | Erroneous | JefferyM: how does this sound? "Please review the Application Guidelines at http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code_Acceptance. In particular, note that you need to discuss your proposal with us on IRC (please include your IRC nick in your application), and that you need to submit a patch. If you can't submit a patch before the Apr. 3 deadline, please let us know on IRC and we'll... |
| 22:29.03 | Erroneous | ...postpone evaluating your proposal until you have finished your patch." |
| 22:29.59 | Erroneous | would like to send that particular block of text to a bunch of our applicants |
| 22:30.42 | Erroneous | brlcad: any thoughts? |
| 22:30.52 | brlcad | blinks |
| 22:31.01 | JefferyM | sure |
| 22:31.09 | JefferyM | and have them add a comment with the patch number/link |
| 22:32.18 | brlcad | Erroneous: yeah, that sounds good |
| 22:32.40 | Erroneous | winds up his copy-n-paste machine |
| 22:33.19 | JefferyM | knows that Erroneous will have to answer a question in 3.....2....1..... |
| 22:33.37 | dexter- | g'night guys |
| 22:34.59 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=spldart2@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 22:35.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 22:41.01 | JefferyM | wow, I totaly could have done bzedit in like a day with this thing |
| 22:42.07 | spldart | Oh wow... very clean build on 2.99 :) |
| 22:47.34 | joevano | Bulldozer: we doubt that brlcad sleeps as well ;) |
| 22:47.45 | JefferyM | he does, just at realy odd times |
| 22:48.11 | brlcad | there's plenty of time to sleep when you're dead! |
| 22:49.20 | brlcad | not for very long, I try to keep it down to just 4-6 hours a day tops .. I start hurting if I sleep much longer |
| 22:51.36 | spldart | Ah.. n/m my aforementioned 'clean' heh |
| 22:56.44 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg (n=Default@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
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| 23:00.45 | Erroneous | prospective soc students: if you received a comment on your application asking you to review the application guidelines, it is because I could not collect (your IRC nick && (your Sourceforge username || a link to your patch)) from your application. |
| 23:01.15 | Erroneous | if you did not receive such a comment, you're fine, don't worry about it |
| 23:02.44 | Erroneous | hmph, now the hard part is reviewing the ones who actually DID follow the directions :) |
| 23:03.09 | *** join/#bzflag res|laptop (n=res@pdpc/supporter/student/res2k) |
| 23:04.08 | spldart | Hrm... my vc9 isn't copying bzflag.exe to the root dir. anymore. Doesn't look like it even tried. New bzfs and libcurl are there but no bzflag.exe |
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| 23:13.20 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon1 (n=LongDon@host-091-097-014-222.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 23:14.28 | brlcad | Erroneous: how do you feel about putting their nick into the subject for now? |
| 23:14.36 | brlcad | i keep flipping back and forth hunting for them... |
| 23:14.47 | brlcad | s/subject/title/ |
| 23:14.53 | Erroneous | sure, works for me |
| 23:15.19 | Erroneous | I'd like to see a Melange feature that let us put arbitrary string/boolean data on the table view |
| 23:15.39 | Erroneous | so we could have, say, a checkbox for "submitted patch" and a field for the irc nick |
| 23:15.48 | Erroneous | and see it all in one glance |
| 23:16.27 | Erroneous | but I've got a feeling I'll need to wait at least a year for that :) |
| 23:22.55 | brlcad | yeah |
| 23:23.00 | brlcad | unless you code it up ;) |
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| 23:31.01 | res|laptop | joevano: (I hope you remember me?) I sifted a bit through the code and, ... there seems to be some encapsulation present (like, OpenGLMaterial), but in other places, it looks pretty messy ... the glColor* methods in SceneNode? that seems weird |
| 23:34.31 | brlcad | gl in the scene nodes isn't too surprising -- gl code in the gui code is weird :) |
| 23:38.10 | res|laptop | I don't think so. "direct drawing" in GUI code seems kind of natural |
| 23:39.04 | res|laptop | to me at least |
| 23:39.33 | res|laptop | tho it should be abstracted from the technology as well :P |
| 23:40.32 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03bzspldart * r19554 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: Confirmation and elaboration of screen resolution font text problem. |
| 23:43.44 | spldart | Odd.. had to do a fresh checkout to correct the (not copying bzflag executable to root dir) problem.. but it is gone. |
| 23:43.50 | brlcad | drawing hairline border outlines manually with opengl sucks |
| 23:44.15 | brlcad | the chat tabs, for example .. ugh-tastic |
| 23:44.40 | res|laptop | yeah ... having some "Line()" method somewhere can be quite convenient |
| 23:44.57 | *** join/#bzflag ToonSuperLove (n=pirch@59.164.101.141) |
| 23:48.15 | JefferyM | I've been putting utilities like that in the openGL.h file |
| 23:50.36 | trepan | OpenGLUtils.h ? |
| 23:51.15 | JefferyM | yeh whatever |
| 23:51.34 | trepan | devil's in the details, just trying to be evil ;-) |
| 23:51.50 | JefferyM | I don't think the openGL cleanup project should attempt to change how the drawing is done |
| 23:52.54 | JefferyM | the student would spend to long making everything into VBOs |
| 23:53.08 | JefferyM | and stuff like the lighting can't be done that well |
| 23:53.09 | res|laptop | if the final goal is to ease adapting external 3D engines, some level of encapsulation seems sensible |
| 23:53.20 | JefferyM | encapsulation yes |
| 23:53.25 | JefferyM | but not down to the "draw line" level |
| 23:53.33 | JefferyM | "Draw tank" sure |
| 23:53.42 | JefferyM | "Draw hud item" sure |
| 23:53.46 | JefferyM | but not that low |
| 23:54.04 | JefferyM | you have to remember that the BZFlag codebase is old |
| 23:54.22 | JefferyM | most of it was done before all the retained mode stuff was invented ;) |
| 23:54.28 | res|laptop | heh |
| 23:54.30 | JefferyM | and when ram was hard to come by |
| 23:54.42 | res|laptop | well, I wouldn't bother with things like using VBOs |
| 23:54.52 | JefferyM | the first step sould JUST be to get the code wraped up |
| 23:54.59 | JefferyM | then if there is time to improve it, sure |
| 23:55.07 | JefferyM | but it all may get ditched anyway by an engine |
| 23:55.17 | JefferyM | the hud will probalby be made data driven at some point |
| 23:55.23 | JefferyM | or totaly scripted |
| 23:55.37 | JefferyM | the menu system is mostly abstrated as is |
| 23:55.49 | res|laptop | okay |
| 23:56.01 | trepan | note that VBOs weren't included into GL core until 1.5 |
| 23:56.07 | JefferyM | indeed |
| 23:56.25 | JefferyM | lists are the oldest type of retained mode, and we do use a fair amount of those |
| 23:56.40 | JefferyM | but stuff like the shot glows change the color per vertex so lists can't be used all the time |
| 23:56.41 | res|laptop | with "encapsulation" I was thinking about lines like, a mesh is encapsulated in some object and you give it float*s for coords, TCs etc. so you'd hide the glVertex and so on calls that way |
| 23:56.51 | JefferyM | that's too low |
| 23:56.52 | trepan | vertex buffers are also used for the meshes (iirc) |
| 23:56.55 | JefferyM | WAYYY too low |
| 23:56.55 | res|laptop | s/about/along/ |
| 23:57.07 | JefferyM | you want to stay high at the object level for now |
| 23:57.54 | JefferyM | in the end, I'd not want any of the main code to even think about drawing lines :) |
| 23:58.03 | res|laptop | hmm |
| 23:58.06 | JefferyM | it should draw logical things |
| 23:58.19 | JefferyM | like buildings, tanks, shots, effects, menu items, hud items, etc.. |
| 23:58.26 | res|laptop | in a very rough way, give everything a "draw()" method and only have OpenGL calls in there? |
| 23:58.33 | JefferyM | the guts of HOW those are drawn should be toatly indpeendent |
| 23:58.48 | JefferyM | well that'd not work with the materials system |
| 23:58.54 | trepan | buildings, tanks, shots -- encapsulate them in something like scenenodes? |
| 23:59.04 | JefferyM | trepan, leave them in the nodes |
| 23:59.20 | JefferyM | that's what I was just going to say, we have most of what we need now with the sceene system |
| 23:59.33 | JefferyM | the sceene has nodes for each drawable thing |
| 23:59.34 | res|laptop | well, for materials have "activate()" and "unactivate()" or so methods |
| 23:59.36 | JefferyM | then the state updates it |
| 23:59.43 | JefferyM | res|laptop, and how do you sort them? |