| 00:07.38 | CIA-64 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r19132 10/trunk/db/ (bzfls.php bzflsadmin.php weblogin.php): Put MySQL into UTF-8 mode so that names with symbols work properly. |
| 00:24.43 | iShock | bzfls? |
| 00:25.17 | JeffM | the list server |
| 00:26.27 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie@unaffiliated/birdie) |
| 00:40.32 | iShock | o |
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| 01:45.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 01:55.09 | *** join/#bzflag javawizard2539 (n=javawiza@c-76-23-28-244.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:56.41 | javawizard2539 | Is there any point whatsoever in adding a flag to the game that combines the effects of all present good flags? |
| 01:57.14 | javawizard2539 | In my past experience, I'd assume that this type of flag would be vehemently vetoed by the project managers |
| 01:57.48 | javawizard2539 | Someone just added a suggestion for such a flag to the flag suggestions page, and I figured that it would be worth an automatic reject, but I thought I should probably ask first |
| 02:00.06 | blast007 | a flag that has all of the effects? uh |
| 02:00.12 | blast007 | why would anyone want that? |
| 02:01.01 | blast007 | but yeah, reject that |
| 02:01.20 | temp_dist | BU with WG - suuuure |
| 02:01.24 | me1 | hehe |
| 02:01.55 | blast007 | and with SH, so the first hit it drops :P |
| 02:08.47 | javawizard2539 | blast007: My point exactly :) |
| 02:09.05 | javawizard2539 | He says "I know this flag is WAY overpowered, but that's the point." |
| 02:09.13 | javawizard2539 | Which, in all honesty, seems a bit pointless |
| 02:09.26 | javawizard2539 | As in, I honestly don't get the point that he seems to get |
| 02:09.30 | me1 | THAT's the point! |
| 02:09.48 | javawizard2539 | He also suggested another flag that teleports anyone you hit to an alternate maze map that they have to kill themselves in or something to get out of |
| 02:09.50 | javawizard2539 | me1: :) |
| 02:10.02 | javawizard2539 | The maze map one seems equally as pointless |
| 02:10.09 | Gnurdux | javawizard2539, wouldnt the latter just be frustrating? |
| 02:10.17 | Gnurdux | what is the advantage over just killing em |
| 02:10.26 | javawizard2539 | Gnurdux: Yeah, that too |
| 02:10.34 | javawizard2539 | Both the flags seem pointless to me |
| 02:10.42 | javawizard2539 | The flag ideas page really needs to be cleaned out |
| 02:10.53 | temp_dist | emptied |
| 02:11.19 | temp_dist | but it might deter others from suggesting the same thing again |
| 02:11.51 | javawizard2539 | temp_dist: I actually meant more of "globally rejected" |
| 02:12.31 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-96-236-228-253.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 02:13.48 | javawizard2539 | So there's another flag that makes it so that you lose a point each time you get shot, but you don't die until you drop the flag |
| 02:13.52 | javawizard2539 | And it's marked as a good flag |
| 02:13.54 | javawizard2539 | ... |
| 02:14.03 | javawizard2539 | One that lets you lose more points than normal... |
| 02:14.08 | me1 | heh |
| 02:14.29 | me1 | make it a bad flag, so you die either way! |
| 02:14.43 | me1 | _and_ loose points! |
| 02:17.12 | me1 | heh |
| 02:17.17 | me1 | i read the description |
| 02:17.28 | me1 | "However, this omega doomsday flag only spawns out-of-bounds by default, unless the server is configured to spawn it in a certain location (past an army of server-side bots, perhaps?)" |
| 02:17.34 | temp_dist | loose points fall on the groundTexture |
| 02:20.31 | javawizard2539 | Spawning out-of-bounds doesn't work anyway |
| 02:20.38 | me1 | yeah it does |
| 02:20.40 | javawizard2539 | And besides, such a flag shouldn't be technically allowed anyway |
| 02:20.41 | me1 | iirc |
| 02:20.45 | javawizard2539 | iirc it doesn't |
| 02:20.51 | javawizard2539 | but I could be wrong |
| 02:20.57 | blast007 | iirc it would be stupid anyway |
| 02:20.59 | blast007 | ;) |
| 02:21.02 | javawizard2539 | :) |
| 02:21.06 | javawizard2539 | Rejected. |
| 02:21.33 | blast007 | a flag that is that specialized is pointless because 99% of the servers couldn't make use of it |
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| 04:51.19 | Gabe_G23 | Hello all |
| 04:52.13 | brlcad | howdy |
| 04:53.50 | Gabe_G23 | I have three quick (I hope) questions :D : In config.cfg, is it possible to map down/up the Shift key to jump? I have changed my config file a bit, but now the comma key (,) does not work for "send nemesis," I've even let bzflag create its own default config.cfg, but the "send nemesis" feature still does not work, why? What is the difference between bind "up" and bind "down" in config.cfg? Thanks :p |
| 04:54.42 | Gabe_G23 | I have tried mapping the Shift key to jump, with no avail by the way :| |
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| 05:31.06 | delusional | thats not gonna work |
| 05:31.49 | delusional | i think because they didnt feel like fixiing left shift/right shift problems on all platforms |
| 05:33.59 | Gabe_G23 | oh :| |
| 05:34.10 | Gabe_G23 | nemesis works now |
| 05:34.14 | delusional | up and down are the arrow keys |
| 05:34.37 | Gabe_G23 | err |
| 05:34.39 | Gabe_G23 | so when you say |
| 05:34.43 | Gabe_G23 | bind q down fire |
| 05:34.45 | Gabe_G23 | for example |
| 05:34.52 | Gabe_G23 | ? |
| 05:34.58 | Gabe_G23 | what's that mean? |
| 05:35.05 | delusional | q and down will both fire |
| 05:35.31 | delusional | just set them via the options menu, and you'll have less problems |
| 05:36.00 | delusional | it wont allow the same key to be assigned to 2 functions |
| 05:36.24 | delusional | but the same function can have 2 different keys |
| 05:38.48 | delusional | the shift problem might be because it's used for some command functions. |
| 05:38.54 | delusional | idunno |
| 05:40.07 | Gabe_G23 | k |
| 05:40.07 | Gabe_G23 | g2g |
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| 05:55.27 | davemicc | there is a cheater on the AHOD server, so if anyone in here is an admin there... |
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| 08:18.28 | jcp | So I'm enabling ctf on a world that I have with only two teams in the world |
| 08:18.42 | jcp | but I think the server's assuming all 4 teams, since it's saying that I'm not defining a base for green team... |
| 08:18.45 | jcp | Any suggestions? |
| 08:18.56 | jcp | I tried only having a red and a blue flag, but it didn't help. |
| 08:19.42 | trepan | pastebin your bzfs config file |
| 08:19.45 | trepan | ~pastebin |
| 08:19.46 | ibot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste |
| 08:20.18 | trepan | and, are you using the bzfs -mp switch ? |
| 08:21.30 | jcp | I don't have a config, all from command line |
| 08:21.39 | jcp | -world world.bzw -c |
| 08:21.45 | jcp | nwhat's -mp? |
| 08:21.50 | trepan | bzfs -help |
| 08:21.54 | trepan | or: man bzfs |
| 08:22.03 | trepan | or: bzfs --help |
| 08:22.10 | trepan | or hit the wiki ;-) |
| 09:50.40 | trepan | 81 FIXMEs, and falling :) |
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| 14:08.24 | delusional | when I press T and Y for my FPS numbers... what does the "tris" number mean? I've got a pretty good guess, but I'd like to see your description, trepan. Also, why does it appear and disappear, when i have no bullets on the screen? |
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| 15:07.14 | brlcad | delusional: it's a triangle count |
| 15:07.54 | brlcad | theoretically, it's a count of how many triangles are being drawn in the 3D view (not counting the radar and other HUD elements) |
| 15:08.12 | delusional | not counting culled faces? |
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| 15:38.51 | brlcad | delusional: hm, not sure but I think it includes them |
| 15:39.19 | delusional | why does it disappear when i have no shots on the screen? |
| 15:39.19 | brlcad | as the triangle count is a collection of the scene node counts |
| 15:39.41 | brlcad | the counter itself? |
| 15:39.48 | delusional | yes |
| 15:39.51 | brlcad | probably just where it is in the logic |
| 15:40.02 | delusional | makes sense |
| 15:40.31 | delusional | are you sure it's not counting only the tris in the shots? |
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| 15:52.02 | blast007 | there is also an rtris if you have the radar mode set to Fast, iirc |
| 15:53.32 | blast007 | (radar triangles) |
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| 16:15.16 | delusional | thanks brlcad and blast007 |
| 16:27.34 | brlcad | delusional: it'll only count the scene nodes that report how many triangles they have -- which they all individually may or may not report |
| 16:27.47 | brlcad | would have to do a more extensive review of all the places where that happens |
| 16:28.13 | brlcad | on the reporting end, though, it's just "report the number of triangles" |
| 16:29.00 | brlcad | i.e. scene nodes that are not entirely culled due to being out of view or entirely obscured, etc |
| 16:30.57 | delusional | well, i made a post and had no confirmed info.. your comments have clarified it enough for me to appear somewhat credible on the subject of tris. Debunk my other comments, if you'd like. http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=13534&p=132788#p132788 |
| 16:31.25 | delusional | credibility is something i have problems with often. |
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| 16:51.28 | BulletCatcher | doesn't believe that |
| 17:18.38 | trepan | _forbidLuaUser ... thinkin' ahead :) |
| 17:30.06 | delusional | awww maaaannnn, I'm shut out. |
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| 17:43.22 | delusional | seems like the forum just stopped, blast007 |
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| 17:47.00 | blast007 | delusional: working for me here |
| 17:47.15 | blast007 | (was/is a bit slow though) |
| 17:47.38 | delusional | more than a bit slow, here |
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| 18:15.41 | brlcad | delusional: talk is cheap -- when in doubt, just read the source for credibility |
| 18:24.46 | CIA-64 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r19133 10/trunk/db/bzfls.php: Decrease the connect-back timeout from 30 to 5 seconds. Also adjust the error message to provide a little more detail for the server owner. (Will show up in the HTTP request at debug level 4 in bzfs) |
| 18:25.56 | blast007 | Does 5 seconds seem too short of a time to wait for the connect back? (where the list server opens a socket back to the server to make sure it's running) |
| 18:26.15 | blast007 | bzfs only waits 10 seconds or so for a response |
| 18:29.09 | brlcad | blast007: you're thinking of dropping the timeout from 10 to 5 seconds? |
| 18:29.37 | blast007 | no |
| 18:29.46 | brlcad | I think it's pretty arbitrary, but I don't see much benefit for a shorter timeout other than faster failure |
| 18:29.47 | blast007 | that's gonna stay the way it is |
| 18:30.22 | blast007 | the reason I decreased the one in the list server is because bzfs was timing out on the ADD request well before the list server did, so there was never any feedback telling them that we couldn't reach their server |
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| 18:30.54 | blast007 | cURL times out after 10 seconds if less than 1024 bytes are transferred, iirc |
| 18:31.41 | brlcad | they should probably match, but +- a few seconds shouldn't make much of a difference |
| 18:31.49 | blast007 | no, they shouldn't :) |
| 18:32.00 | blast007 | the list server does more than just connect back |
| 18:32.01 | brlcad | list server waiting less does make sense |
| 18:32.03 | blast007 | database stuff too |
| 18:32.13 | blast007 | so it needs some extra time in there in case it's a tad slow |
| 18:34.17 | blast007 | and this might be a stupid question, but... I'm thinking about using a web framework I've been working on for some of the web services (so that they can share some common code). However, I'm planning to use that framework for my own commercial software. How does licensing and copyright work if I put that framework into the BZFlag SVN? |
| 18:38.37 | brlcad | license would need to be lgpl, bsd, or similar license (just not gpl) to be easily integratable -- copyright can be shared through an unlimited use granting |
| 18:39.14 | brlcad | that would let you still retain copyright for your purposes, but lets us use the codebase for whatever purpose without danger down the road |
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| 18:41.18 | brlcad | otherwise, it'd probably be a problem just like any other limited-use contribution |
| 18:45.24 | brlcad | delusional: your post seems mostly accurate as does spazzy's reply that LoD's will make a huge impact (one-to-two orders) |
| 18:47.29 | trepan | would it be worth using a GameOptions bit to indicate that a server is using LuaWorld? |
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| 18:55.14 | JeffM2501 | trepan: does the client care? |
| 18:55.40 | trepan | LuaWorld can drastically alter how rendering is performed in clients |
| 18:56.01 | trepan | and it can also change how keystokes are handled (ex: it can replace all of the UI elements) |
| 18:56.08 | JeffM2501 | fun |
| 18:56.25 | JeffM2501 | sounds more like we need a "non standard" bit |
| 18:56.30 | JeffM2501 | cus plugins can do wierd stuff too |
| 18:58.27 | SpazzyMcGee | can't wait for LUA. It's gonna be one of the most significant changes yet. We're going to see some interesting stuff. |
| 18:58.40 | brlcad | certain keystrokes shouldn't be allowed to be overridden (like disconnecting from a server or quitting) |
| 18:59.11 | MindstormsKid | luaworld? |
| 18:59.13 | trepan | brlcad: disconnecting isn't a keystroke, maybe it should have one? |
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| 19:00.14 | brlcad | possibly, like f12, maybe f11 |
| 19:00.38 | brlcad | asking for the menu via esc is another |
| 19:00.47 | trepan | yup, was thinking that too |
| 19:00.48 | brlcad | arrow keys for menu navigation |
| 19:00.56 | trepan | if in menu mode ... |
| 19:01.11 | brlcad | basically anything that'd make a server-operator d!ck with a client |
| 19:01.58 | trepan | F12, ESC, anykey when in menu mode (maybe tie the last to allow jumping while typing) |
| 19:03.20 | trepan | m |
| 19:03.28 | trepan | ww :) |
| 19:03.39 | trepan | alias m=make ... |
| 19:04.25 | brlcad | heh |
| 19:06.10 | trepan | as for _forbidLuaUser, servers might want to set it for ctf/league games; as an example, LuaUser can already render reflected shot paths |
| 19:07.04 | MindstormsKid | What is Lua... |
| 19:07.10 | trepan | www.lua.org |
| 19:07.41 | MindstormsKid | ok... what does it have to do with bzflag? |
| 19:07.52 | MindstormsKid | isn't bzflag C of some type? |
| 19:08.15 | SpazzyMcGee | MindstormsKid: it's a scripting language for plugins |
| 19:08.28 | MindstormsKid | oh |
| 19:08.43 | SpazzyMcGee | Unless i'm mistaken, Lego Mindstorms use a form of LUA |
| 19:08.47 | trepan | there currently exists a server side plugin (a warmup ;-) |
| 19:08.54 | MindstormsKid | hmm |
| 19:08.56 | SpazzyMcGee | (If that's what your nick is referencing) |
| 19:09.00 | trepan | the important one will the client-side lua scripts |
| 19:09.14 | trepan | s/the/be the/ |
| 19:09.22 | MindstormsKid | yea, it seems like i remember something about LUA and mindstorms... |
| 19:10.55 | SpazzyMcGee | trepan, do you think client side scripts are going to be the next big thing? |
| 19:11.32 | trepan | definitely |
| 19:11.56 | trepan | draw the world with shaders, multitex, fbo (render to texture), occlusion queries |
| 19:12.11 | trepan | even has select buffer access for an in-game editor |
| 19:12.22 | trepan | and LuaUser will let you rewrite the UI |
| 19:12.34 | trepan | change you console, radar, scoreboard, etc... |
| 19:12.38 | SpazzyMcGee | oh, wow |
| 19:13.37 | SpazzyMcGee | heh - can't wait for the arguments over scripted clients are cheat clients |
| 19:13.45 | MindstormsKid | 9_9 |
| 19:13.54 | trepan | using much the same interface, the Spring RTS guys have implemented depth of field, blur, shot screen warping, etc... and that game deals with thousands of units, not dozens of players |
| 19:14.29 | MindstormsKid | i can't wait until bzflag is written in javascript and is used in a browser XD |
| 19:14.43 | trepan | SpazzyMcGee: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/volcano.theora.ogg |
| 19:14.44 | blast007 | MindstormsKid: uuuhhh... |
| 19:14.46 | SpazzyMcGee | MindstormsKid: er.... lol? |
| 19:14.59 | MindstormsKid | what? :P |
| 19:15.07 | MindstormsKid | it is possible :P |
| 19:15.12 | trepan | all the particle calculations for that example are done GPU side |
| 19:15.13 | blast007 | no it's not |
| 19:15.27 | MindstormsKid | blast007: why? |
| 19:15.33 | SpazzyMcGee | trepan: how big it the video? |
| 19:15.41 | trepan | 20M |
| 19:15.43 | blast007 | MindstormsKid: javascript is not fast enough for that... |
| 19:16.54 | MindstormsKid | blast007: yes, but in a few years... chrome's js engine is tens of times faster than ie, a few times faster than safari and firefox |
| 19:17.05 | blast007 | even then |
| 19:17.17 | MindstormsKid | blast007: trust me... |
| 19:17.22 | blast007 | no thanks |
| 19:17.26 | MindstormsKid | >_> |
| 19:18.41 | MindstormsKid | it will be fast enough |
| 19:18.52 | MindstormsKid | if it isn't already |
| 19:19.14 | blast007 | yeah, let me know you port OpenGL to javascript |
| 19:19.49 | MindstormsKid | huh |
| 19:20.41 | MindstormsKid | javascript has canvas (2d), opera has canvas 3d, and there is a firefox canvas 3d plugin |
| 19:21.30 | blast007 | that's nice, but it doesn't mean it's gonna be fast enough to run a 3D game |
| 19:21.57 | blast007 | (at least one at the scale of BZFlag) |
| 19:22.05 | blast007 | and how would you do networking? |
| 19:22.21 | MindstormsKid | blast007: ajax |
| 19:22.22 | blast007 | gonna be AJAX requests? :P |
| 19:22.24 | blast007 | pfft |
| 19:22.27 | trepan | XMLHttpRequest ;-) |
| 19:22.31 | MindstormsKid | pfft? PFFT?! |
| 19:22.39 | MindstormsKid | trepan: same thing :P |
| 19:22.55 | leeguy92 | methinks a java applet would be more prudent.... |
| 19:23.12 | MindstormsKid | java is ugly |
| 19:23.17 | leeguy92 | DIE!!! |
| 19:23.17 | blast007 | thinks that C++ is just fine |
| 19:23.17 | MindstormsKid | as in the interface |
| 19:23.18 | trepan | MindstormsKid: the day you tell me something useful that I didn't already know ... ;-) |
| 19:23.33 | leeguy92 | you cant embed c++ in a webpagee |
| 19:23.44 | blast007 | so? why does it need to be in a browser? |
| 19:23.54 | MindstormsKid | blast007: er er er |
| 19:24.03 | blast007 | if you're too lazy to install a 16MB game, then tough |
| 19:24.07 | leeguy92 | wasnt that the point(sry if it wasnt) |
| 19:24.14 | MindstormsKid | blast007: know what the cloud is? |
| 19:24.22 | blast007 | MindstormsKid: that thing in the sky full of rain |
| 19:24.25 | leeguy92 | so you can play bz at work/school!!! |
| 19:24.26 | trepan | i hear it has a chrome lining |
| 19:24.36 | blast007 | heh |
| 19:24.48 | MindstormsKid | blast007: did you know that the browser will soon be the os? |
| 19:25.02 | MindstormsKid | and everything will be written in javascript? :P |
| 19:25.04 | leeguy92 | dammit, i thought i came up with that!! |
| 19:25.07 | blast007 | hah.. |
| 19:25.16 | blast007 | riiight |
| 19:25.37 | blast007 | sure, web apps are growing, but that doesn't mean that they're gonna write Crysis for Firefox |
| 19:25.39 | leeguy92 | ppl i dont know keep nicking my ideas(also, people from the past do it) |
| 19:25.57 | MindstormsKid | blast007: hahah |
| 19:26.00 | ruskie | blast007, hmm wasn't there doom or quake for firefox? |
| 19:26.15 | blast007 | ruskie: doom and quake are easier |
| 19:26.24 | blast007 | heck, you can run those off a cheap MP3 player |
| 19:26.44 | leeguy92 | i think html and all of its friends should be trashed anyway. its all soooo ugly. |
| 19:26.49 | blast007 | I've got quake 2 running on my N800 which is only a 400MHz system with no 3d acceleration |
| 19:27.13 | MindstormsKid | leeguy92: say goodbye to everything 9_9 |
| 19:27.21 | blast007 | (not in the browser, of course) |
| 19:27.37 | MindstormsKid | there is a thing that lets you embed python into html |
| 19:27.39 | leeguy92 | yeah, the web needs an overhaul |
| 19:27.48 | blast007 | leeguy92: uh, heard of HTML 5? |
| 19:27.59 | blast007 | go look it up.. |
| 19:28.13 | leeguy92 | is this gonna be like xhtml, where nobody took any notice? |
| 19:28.18 | blast007 | nope |
| 19:28.21 | ruskie | blast007, hmm I ran quake2 on a p133 with no 3d accel... |
| 19:28.26 | blast007 | ruskie: hehe |
| 19:28.36 | ruskie | multiplayer even at that... |
| 19:28.36 | leeguy92 | what ur resolution? |
| 19:28.39 | ruskie | and on linux... |
| 19:28.58 | blast007 | mine was running at 400x240 I think (or maybe 320x240) |
| 19:29.05 | ruskie | 320x240 here |
| 19:29.07 | blast007 | can't recall if it was widescreen or not |
| 19:29.23 | leeguy92 | ah |
| 19:29.23 | ruskie | ye yeye finally setup my own jabberd and bitlbeed |
| 19:32.40 | SpazzyMcGee | I'm definitely going to say, we need Flash and ActionScript |
| 19:32.46 | MindstormsKid | bunch of pessimists -_- |
| 19:36.16 | blast007 | MindstormsKid: I think of it more as 'realists' |
| 19:36.49 | blast007 | just because something is possible doesn't mean it's a good idea. I can shoot myself in the foot, but that doesn't mean I should do it. :) |
| 19:37.00 | BulletCatcher | In a few years Javascript may indeed be fast enough to run today's BZFlag, but by then the minimum requirements for BZFlag will be higher, so it still won't work. |
| 19:37.23 | BulletCatcher | 3.0 might even be out by then. :-p |
| 19:37.30 | MindstormsKid | BulletCatcher: why would they be higher? |
| 19:37.52 | BulletCatcher | Because of the complexity of new features, such as Lua scripting. |
| 19:39.29 | MindstormsKid | Oh. |
| 19:40.00 | blast007 | and because we're going to add in the MakeJavaScriptSlow() function call |
| 19:51.30 | trepan | which bz OSes currently aren't supported by SDL? (next version has joystick support?) |
| 19:51.59 | blast007 | Windows doesn't use SDL |
| 19:52.14 | trepan | not supported, not which binary version is distributed |
| 19:52.26 | trepan | sdl does support windows |
| 19:52.30 | blast007 | right |
| 19:52.47 | trepan | so, other than the one that is definitely supported, any others? |
| 19:52.51 | blast007 | but it is still going to be a step down in functionality from the current stuff? |
| 19:52.59 | trepan | blast007: why? |
| 19:53.12 | blast007 | SDL was the lowest amount of functionality in terms of joysticks and gamepads, at least |
| 19:53.27 | trepan | next version of SDL has better support, iirc |
| 19:54.10 | trepan | so the question remains unanswered ;-) |
| 20:29.02 | *** join/#bzflag Abominable (n=Abominab@user-0ce2hpi.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 20:37.18 | ts | Umm, global login seems to be down |
| 20:38.03 | ts | ~bzflist |
| 20:38.16 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@bzflag/player/JFTsang) |
| 20:38.17 | ts | works again |
| 20:38.23 | blast007 | k |
| 20:38.48 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@212.71.10.26) |
| 20:38.54 | blast007 | was wondering if it was maybe the change I had made to the timeout value |
| 20:39.08 | blast007 | ts: if it does it again, let me know |
| 20:44.27 | brad | its gone again |
| 20:47.47 | blast007 | try now |
| 20:47.50 | ts | blast007: We have a rather big fm at one server and like 40 people rejoined at the same time |
| 20:48.08 | blast007 | heh |
| 20:48.25 | ts | maybe it's just too much load |
| 20:48.36 | ts | looks like it doesn't work again |
| 20:48.38 | blast007 | well, I bumped the connect-back timeout back up to 30 seconds |
| 20:48.42 | blast007 | so maybe that'll help |
| 20:48.58 | ts | es but not in practice |
| 20:49.01 | ts | yes* |
| 20:49.12 | blast007 | hmm, okay |
| 20:49.14 | brad | nein :( |
| 20:49.18 | blast007 | so it's not my change then :) |
| 20:49.31 | brad | ~bzflist |
| 20:49.37 | ts | Could it be we're just too many? |
| 20:49.51 | brlcad | blast007: you running anything? |
| 20:50.05 | brlcad | apache is overloaded big time |
| 20:50.10 | blast007 | nope |
| 20:50.22 | brad | just got in |
| 20:50.36 | ts | and I don't even get a token |
| 20:50.54 | blast007 | two search bots are crawling the forum right now |
| 20:51.02 | brlcad | it hit the max allowed, 50 active simultaneous connections |
| 20:51.11 | brlcad | so folks are backed up |
| 20:51.12 | blast007 | Exabot and Google. Might that be causing it? |
| 20:51.24 | ts | google is evil here ;) |
| 20:51.25 | brlcad | nah, they're almost always walking the server somewhere |
| 20:51.29 | blast007 | k |
| 20:52.39 | blast007 | heh.. a 'top' shows one for mysql, and almost all the rest are httpd |
| 20:53.10 | brlcad | yeah, that's backlogged listserver activity |
| 20:53.21 | brlcad | mysql is expected |
| 20:54.25 | brlcad | hm, that's better |
| 20:55.17 | ts | I wonder how sportchick gets 2% usage with irssi |
| 20:55.20 | brlcad | looks like it might have been a botnet that attached but wasn't detected, or apache just got into a dumb state and was bogged down with too many clients |
| 20:56.55 | brlcad | huh, I curiously lost my image moderator status, yet it still sends me the moderator e-mails |
| 20:57.29 | Winny | blames blast007 |
| 21:01.01 | blast007 | brlcad: I probably have something borked there.. |
| 21:01.07 | blast007 | are you still in the group? |
| 21:02.05 | BulletCatcher | For 3.0 can we change authentication in a way that will allow it to be independent of the main web site? That would give us the option of having game authentication on a lightly loaded server when bots of any type are hitting hard. |
| 21:03.39 | BulletCatcher | Or is the bottleneck MySQL itself? |
| 21:04.40 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: ideally that's what we'd go to eventually |
| 21:04.44 | blast007 | but that's a ways off yet |
| 21:05.57 | blast007 | we'd have to modify how phpBB3 handles LDAP if we want to allow username changes (and also to make sure that the BZID in LDAP is the same as the user_id in phpBB |
| 21:06.00 | blast007 | ) |
| 21:06.31 | blast007 | with OpenLDAP, we could modify the list server to use that for it's auth |
| 21:06.48 | blast007 | and then bzauthd would be used for clients/servers that were newer |
| 21:12.09 | BulletCatcher | I was thinking of just using a different host name in the URL so that it could be on a different Apache instance. |
| 21:13.08 | brlcad | blast007: which group is it? |
| 21:13.13 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=temp_dis@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 21:14.07 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: getting authentication off of http would be one way of doing that, that was also part of bzauthd plannage way back when |
| 21:15.18 | brlcad | so that clients would just be talking to the bzauthd daemon (over whatever protocol, custom or otherwise), and not have other traffic affect it |
| 21:16.09 | brlcad | blast007: I am in site.imageauth |
| 21:20.25 | brad | ~bzflist |
| 21:23.34 | BulletCatcher | brlcad: Are you satisfied with including glew.o in lib3D? I have changes that make a proper libGLEW.a library when needed, but they will undo what you did on Thursday. |
| 21:27.33 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@96-42-91-234.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 21:53.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 22:15.28 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: it's such a small "library" that I don't see an upside or downside either way |
| 22:16.29 | BulletCatcher | Okay. I'll leave it as is, but save my patches just in case. |
| 22:17.06 | brlcad | i'm pretty satisfied as it builds and is minimal maintenance, but would have been perfectly fine as a lib too |
| 22:17.20 | BulletCatcher | I'll add a --enable-glew-build option to the configure script for completeness. |
| 22:17.23 | brlcad | it should be noinst either way, so it's all under-the-hood |
| 22:20.15 | BulletCatcher | Should we distribute the entire glew tree in tarballs, or just LICENSE.txt and the (very) few files we need? |
| 22:22.46 | *** join/#bzflag Enigma_bz (n=devindel@dhcp216n72.fau.edu) |
| 22:23.15 | L4m3r | if the person testing "BZLinker" happens to be watching this channel, please refrain from testing your bot on other people's public servers... thanks |
| 22:24.03 | BulletCatcher | Greetings, Enigma_bz. |
| 22:24.37 | Enigma_bz | Hi. Gah, I knew who was testing that but can't remeber now. |
| 22:26.37 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: I'd think the entire tree just to keep their distribution terms within their proper context |
| 22:26.43 | brlcad | plus it's pretty small |
| 22:26.56 | brlcad | anything in our source checkout should be in a source tarball |
| 22:27.04 | brlcad | or it doesn't belong in svn to start with |
| 22:27.29 | brlcad | source tarball should be a simple superset |
| 22:27.53 | BulletCatcher | Okay. I'll do an audit and ensure that nothing is missing. |
| 22:30.40 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=Jeff@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 22:30.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 22:33.39 | me1 | ~bzflist |
| 22:44.45 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: I have a script that will do it automatically |
| 22:45.04 | brlcad | can make distcheck fail as a sanity check |
| 22:56.48 | blast007 | brlcad: image submission moderation isn't showing up for me either, so I'll look into it |
| 22:58.06 | blast007 | brlcad: fixed |
| 22:58.17 | blast007 | had to capitalize the group name in the config |
| 23:07.01 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@bzflag/player/JFTsang) |
| 23:07.26 | Enigma_bz | BZLinker: http://sourceforge.net/projects/bzlinker. Looks like leethegreat is writing it. |
| 23:09.49 | blast007 | a player named 'exponential' is the one doing it |
| 23:10.09 | Enigma_bz | I think it's the same guy though |
| 23:15.34 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 23:15.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 23:18.17 | L4m3r | yeah, I had found the sourceforge page |
| 23:18.43 | L4m3r | I don't know if the project dev is the person testing it, though |
| 23:19.12 | delusional | ...what is it? a BZAdmin client that can join mulriple servers? |
| 23:19.20 | L4m3r | something like that |
| 23:19.28 | L4m3r | maybe a chat relay... I'm not sure |
| 23:19.57 | L4m3r | we've had similar problems in the past (loggers, I think) with people leaving bot clients on our servers |
| 23:19.57 | SpazzyMcGee | I think it's supposed to be a chat relay |
| 23:21.48 | delusional | it disconnects if you /clientquery it. |
| 23:22.21 | SpazzyMcGee | well, It did once |
| 23:22.40 | SpazzyMcGee | don't know if It always does |
| 23:22.47 | JeffM | heh |
| 23:22.54 | JeffM | there are better ways to do it then with a bot |
| 23:23.00 | L4m3r | when I banned it, bzfs also removed two "ghost clients" with no name along with the bot |
| 23:23.19 | L4m3r | so who knows what happens when it spazzes out |
| 23:23.52 | L4m3r | JeffM: certainly, but I'm sure that it's easier to just bodge two bzadmin clients together to pass messages back and forth |
| 23:23.53 | SpazzyMcGee | L4m3r: those two 'ghost clients' diddn't even have slot numbers |
| 23:24.00 | L4m3r | yeah, I know |
| 23:24.02 | JeffM | it won't look right tho |
| 23:24.06 | JeffM | how can you reply to someone |
| 23:24.17 | JeffM | you have to come up with some whackass inner message protcoll |
| 23:24.26 | JeffM | like recipient:message |
| 23:24.52 | SpazzyMcGee | how very whackass |
| 23:24.53 | L4m3r | it probably just repeats the global chat back and forth |
| 23:25.06 | JeffM | then you have to put who it's really from in the message |
| 23:25.11 | JeffM | and they all get colored the same |
| 23:25.11 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 23:25.23 | L4m3r | some of the same issues with that IRC hack I did :P |
| 23:25.31 | JeffM | http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/custom_plugins/irclink/ |
| 23:25.38 | SpazzyMcGee | Speaking of IRC link |
| 23:25.46 | JeffM | that solves them |
| 23:26.40 | SpazzyMcGee | it would be nice to have a plugin that simply reports back. No chat relay or anything - just an alerts, for example, when a poll ban is initiated, or a /password is attempted |
| 23:27.11 | L4m3r | that would be pretty easy |
| 23:27.15 | JeffM | very |
| 23:27.33 | L4m3r | more work to set up the IRC interface than to do the actual logic |
| 23:27.34 | SpazzyMcGee | I could see that being pretty useful, despite a limited functionality |
| 23:28.03 | JeffM | you could modify that plugin to do that |
| 23:28.07 | L4m3r | heh, JeffM, I started something like that for 2.0, but did not get far |
| 23:28.08 | JeffM | and work in 2.0.x |
| 23:28.22 | JeffM | L4m3r: you can't do it all in 2, you need server side players |
| 23:28.46 | L4m3r | I was going to do it "the ghetto way" |
| 23:29.19 | L4m3r | basically, the planned functionality from the gsoc project backported to a 2.0 plugin |
| 23:31.23 | leeguy92 | ok, what's this you people have been saying about my bot? i will answer all questions(that i can). |
| 23:32.04 | JeffM | just that you should do it as a plugin |
| 23:32.07 | JeffM | it'd work a lot better |
| 23:32.19 | leeguy92 | probably |
| 23:32.21 | SpazzyMcGee | And that you shouldn't test it on public servers without permission |
| 23:32.26 | JeffM | indeed |
| 23:32.36 | JeffM | that's also why it would be better as a plugin |
| 23:32.38 | JeffM | less abbuse |
| 23:32.38 | leeguy92 | ok, fine, i will agree there |
| 23:32.45 | brad | leeguy92: is that the bzlink thing? |
| 23:32.51 | leeguy92 | but admins have seen it and said its a cool idea |
| 23:32.52 | JeffM | basicly you've made a spambot, good job ;) |
| 23:33.01 | brad | I didn't see it talking at all :o |
| 23:33.05 | SpazzyMcGee | hehe |
| 23:33.14 | leeguy92 | it's NOT bzlinker. i did that project when i was 14. |
| 23:33.16 | JeffM | they like the concept, I don't think they see the implications |
| 23:33.27 | leeguy92 | it's the next generation version which DOESNT spam |
| 23:33.29 | JeffM | as a lot of admins are also 14 ;) |
| 23:33.42 | brad | what does it do now then? |
| 23:33.47 | leeguy92 | bzlinker WAS a problem, cos it just spat out everything |
| 23:33.49 | brad | it seemed to just sit there doing nothing :p |
| 23:34.06 | leeguy92 | if a player wants to be included in global-chat. they type !globalchat 1 |
| 23:34.12 | JeffM | does it use more then one "Player"? |
| 23:34.18 | leeguy92 | no |
| 23:34.29 | leeguy92 | im not sure what all of this stuff is about ghost clients |
| 23:34.31 | JeffM | and your bot private messages them stuff? |
| 23:34.34 | leeguy92 | yes |
| 23:34.36 | JeffM | eww |
| 23:34.39 | leeguy92 | if they want |
| 23:34.48 | leeguy92 | lol |
| 23:34.49 | JeffM | still you take up a player slot |
| 23:34.57 | JeffM | but yes that is better the just relaying global |
| 23:35.10 | JeffM | but the fact that you have to know special commands sucks |
| 23:35.20 | blast007 | and the server has to send every other player's update data to your bot |
| 23:35.23 | leeguy92 | i guess, but i figured that is the nature of having a "public" bzflag server |
| 23:35.31 | JeffM | no, it isn't |
| 23:35.34 | leeguy92 | ppl can join, if u dont like them, kick them |
| 23:35.37 | SpazzyMcGee | leeguy92: when we booted you off PlanetMoFo:4200 two invisible, slotless players got kicked too |
| 23:35.46 | JeffM | leeguy92: sure, it's just rude |
| 23:35.47 | leeguy92 | well, i dont know about that |
| 23:35.57 | blast007 | well, nameless. They'd have a slot. |
| 23:36.01 | JeffM | a plugin would be a LOT better |
| 23:36.08 | JeffM | opt in, rather then opt out |
| 23:36.11 | blast007 | so basically it was wasting three player slots on mofo |
| 23:36.22 | SpazzyMcGee | blast007: they didn't show up in the /playerlist |
| 23:36.23 | leeguy92 | it is only meant to be taking 1 slot. |
| 23:36.24 | JeffM | you are basic taking the stance of email spammers, "delete it if you don't want it" ;) |
| 23:36.31 | blast007 | SpazzyMcGee: right, only fully joined player do, I think |
| 23:36.42 | blast007 | SpazzyMcGee: did it show a name leave when they signed off? |
| 23:36.47 | leeguy92 | i cant see how it would make 3 "ghost" players |
| 23:36.49 | JeffM | you are given a slot ID after msgEnter |
| 23:36.57 | leeguy92 | yup, that is saved |
| 23:37.12 | leeguy92 | in a data structure called server->myID |
| 23:37.25 | JeffM | also what do you do if protcoll changes? |
| 23:37.27 | SpazzyMcGee | it literally showed up as nothing and then the ban reason |
| 23:37.28 | JeffM | make a new bot? |
| 23:37.35 | leeguy92 | yup |
| 23:37.42 | leeguy92 | assuming there is a point |
| 23:37.43 | JeffM | with a plugin the API would not change |
| 23:37.46 | JeffM | and it would just work |
| 23:38.07 | leeguy92 | i suppose. but i liked the idea of a networking challenge. i never done networking programming before. |
| 23:38.17 | L4m3r | well, regardless, I'm sure people told you "last time"... don't test your stuff on other people's servers without permission |
| 23:38.29 | JeffM | just because you want to learn something dosn't mean it's the best choice for a specific project ;) |
| 23:38.36 | JeffM | you'd still have to do networking wtih a pluing |
| 23:38.40 | JeffM | to get them to talk to each other |
| 23:39.03 | JeffM | yeah if your testing code, test on yours |
| 23:39.09 | JeffM | not public servers |
| 23:39.15 | JeffM | that would be considred a form of abbuse |
| 23:39.20 | leeguy92 | L4m3r: i respect that admins get to tell me what to do if i go on their server. |
| 23:39.22 | JeffM | and that if frowned upon |
| 23:39.38 | JeffM | leeguy92: as in masterban frowned upon |
| 23:40.12 | L4m3r | your bot was already banned from planet mofo. I am speaking in general. |
| 23:40.23 | leeguy92 | ok, i see what you are getting at |
| 23:40.43 | leeguy92 | i cant see how a masterban would work, cos my IP changes all the time |
| 23:40.51 | leeguy92 | im just saying. |
| 23:40.56 | JeffM | are you asking for a challenge? ;) |
| 23:40.59 | leeguy92 | nooooo |
| 23:41.01 | leeguy92 | lol |
| 23:41.02 | JeffM | trust me, you don't want to go down that path |
| 23:41.13 | blast007 | I have lots of time on my hands ;) |
| 23:41.22 | JeffM | we are trying to talk to you about this in a civil way, and you don't seem to be understanding |
| 23:41.28 | leeguy92 | the only way i can see you would do it, is by banning my ISP, or the entire UK |
| 23:41.37 | leeguy92 | i do understand, and i agree |
| 23:41.38 | JeffM | to me that tells me that you arn't trying to learn but trying to cause trouble |
| 23:41.47 | JeffM | leeguy92: ok. fine I'll ban the UK |
| 23:41.54 | JeffM | and tell them to find you |
| 23:42.01 | *** join/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
| 23:42.10 | SpazzyMcGee | JeffM: god no |
| 23:42.17 | leeguy92 | umm....about 8 lines back i agreed with you. how am i trying to cause trouble? lol |
| 23:42.53 | JeffM | SpazzyMcGee: then I hope you make sure he sticks to it ;) |
| 23:43.04 | JeffM | leeguy92: you are stuborn arn't you? ;) |
| 23:44.02 | leeguy92 | NO, i said i agree!!! is that why there are massive holes in the network protocol document in the wiki - cos they are stuck to your face, so you cant read my obvious decency? |
| 23:44.15 | JeffM | wow |
| 23:44.24 | JeffM | I know what you said, it just took you a long time to say it |
| 23:44.36 | JeffM | but fine |
| 23:44.40 | leeguy92 | huh/ |
| 23:44.41 | JeffM | hey if all is well, all is well |
| 23:44.49 | leeguy92 | ..... |
| 23:45.05 | *** join/#bzflag iShock (n=lee@unaffiliated/ishock) |
| 23:45.22 | leeguy92 | (11:40:22 PM) leeguy92: ok, i see what you are getting at |
| 23:45.22 | leeguy92 | (11:39:19 PM) leeguy92: L4m3r: i respect that admins get to tell me what to do if i go on their server. |
| 23:45.22 | leeguy92 | (11:41:37 PM) leeguy92: i do understand, and i agree |
| 23:45.40 | JeffM | I know |
| 23:45.45 | JeffM | I can read |
| 23:45.53 | JeffM | I can also read all the stuff before that |
| 23:46.09 | JeffM | so it's all good |
| 23:46.25 | leeguy92 | i only just came on here cos blast told me about it. |
| 23:46.31 | JeffM | umm ok |
| 23:47.29 | leeguy92 | yeah....wow, you people were talking about this for ages... |
| 23:47.33 | iShock | JeffM, leeguy92, are you two busy? |
| 23:47.38 | JeffM | ? |
| 23:47.41 | leeguy92 | not really |
| 23:48.03 | iShock | Unless you've got a better idea, I need to make sure oncap SW works .. it doesn't seem like it. |
| 23:48.25 | JeffM | what did you put in the map? |
| 23:48.36 | blast007 | ~bzpastebin |
| 23:48.37 | ibot | [bzpastebin] http://pastebin.bzflag.bz or a place to put large chunks of text so as not to flood a channel |
| 23:48.49 | iShock | base |
| 23:48.53 | iShock | er |
| 23:48.55 | iShock | Phew |
| 23:48.56 | JeffM | pastebin |
| 23:49.14 | iShock | Hit a wrong button :< |
| 23:49.21 | JeffM | of course you did |
| 23:49.22 | iShock | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m3ce566d4 |
| 23:49.36 | iShock | Hence stopping it at 'base', but anyway .. There |
| 23:50.16 | me1 | i though you needed to make a seperate ww with oncap <team #> |
| 23:50.18 | me1 | ? |
| 23:50.30 | JeffM | there are 2 ways to do it |
| 23:50.33 | me1 | oh, no, that was eventteam |
| 23:50.45 | iShock | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Base |
| 23:51.59 | JeffM | looks like it should work |
| 23:52.08 | iShock | What about selfcaps? |
| 23:52.18 | blast007 | try them |
| 23:52.32 | iShock | I did |
| 23:52.35 | iShock | I didn't see one |
| 23:52.38 | blast007 | okay |
| 23:52.46 | blast007 | did it do the SW for a normal capture? |
| 23:52.56 | JeffM | if ( capEvent->teamCapped != team ) |
| 23:52.56 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:53.01 | JeffM | it dosn't do selfcaps |
| 23:53.04 | SpazzyMcGee | if you're using oncap in a base object, why would you _ever_ use anything other than SW? |
| 23:53.23 | SpazzyMcGee | would an SB or L just fire up into the air? |
| 23:53.26 | blast007 | SpazzyMcGee: maybe...uh...hmm ;) |
| 23:53.35 | blast007 | laser in a cage full of pyramids? |
| 23:53.46 | blast007 | not sure if that would work anyway though |
| 23:53.46 | iShock | That's why I wanted to borrow a couple of you blast007, I need to figure out :P |
| 23:53.57 | JeffM | it uses the rotation of the base |
| 23:54.01 | JeffM | and 0 for the tilt |
| 23:54.48 | JeffM | the oncap message on the base uses the same system as the world weap stuff, it just defaults a lot of the paramaters |
| 23:55.18 | JeffM | iShock: have you tried it with a normal caputure? |
| 23:55.59 | iShock | JeffM, no, I don't have enough players to actually normal capture |
| 23:56.10 | JeffM | then how do you know it does not work? |
| 23:56.24 | *** join/#bzflag Greywhind (n=Greywhin@ip70-176-166-219.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:56.26 | iShock | I didn't say it didn't, I said I didn't know if it did |
| 23:56.27 | iShock | Didn't I? |
| 23:56.35 | JeffM | then go find out |
| 23:56.36 | JeffM | ;) |
| 23:56.48 | blast007 | run an autopilot client and a normal client |
| 23:56.59 | blast007 | or heck, you don't even need to run autopilot |
| 23:57.00 | JeffM | the docs say it should work, or we woudln't have documented it |
| 23:57.07 | JeffM | self cap would be stupid, you'd killyoursef |
| 23:57.10 | iShock | Oh, good idea blast007 |
| 23:57.11 | blast007 | just join two clients to your own server and try capturing the other one's flag |
| 23:57.15 | *** join/#bzflag F687s (n=noah@cpe-98-30-181-122.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 23:57.31 | brad | you dont even need 2 clients, just /flag give r* |
| 23:57.39 | brad | works without anyone on the other team! |
| 23:57.54 | iShock | Curse you all .. |
| 23:58.20 | JeffM | for using common sense? |
| 23:58.22 | SpazzyMcGee | heh |
| 23:58.23 | JeffM | oh the shame |
| 23:58.24 | iShock | Yeah, exactly. |
| 23:58.30 | iShock | Glad you understand. |
| 23:58.34 | iShock | It works :O |
| 23:58.51 | JeffM | AMAZING! |
| 23:59.46 | iShock | Shh you. |
| 23:59.47 | brad | heh |
| 23:59.51 | iShock | cracks and punches JeffM |
| 23:59.59 | JeffM | pardon me? |