| 00:16.04 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@bzflag/developer/Constitution) |
| 00:23.21 | *** join/#bzflag leeguy92 (n=lee@host217-42-28-209.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
| 00:24.06 | leeguy92 | hi, all. any devs in the house who know about the network protocol? |
| 00:25.50 | MindstormsKid | points at JefferyM and blast007 |
| 00:27.42 | leeguy92 | ah, i just wanted to know how a client informs a server that it's joining as an observer. is it just by selecting the observer teamcolor in the "join" frame? |
| 00:31.03 | JefferyM | yes obs is a team |
| 00:31.36 | javawizard2539 | Is there any particular reason why the custom limbo message only shows if the player isn't spawnable? |
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| 00:31.59 | javawizard2539 | It seems like it would be better if it was shown in place of "press right mouse or I to start" if it is set |
| 00:32.17 | leeguy92 | thanks jeff |
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| 00:33.52 | javawizard2539 | I changed it in my local version to see how it looks, and imo it's better |
| 00:36.37 | JefferyM | the spawn message is localised |
| 00:36.40 | JefferyM | localized |
| 00:38.36 | javawizard2539 | But that makes it so that plugins can only set a custom limbo message if the player can't spawn |
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| 00:39.16 | JefferyM | yeah that was the intent, for forcing them to limbo |
| 00:39.25 | JefferyM | you can only be in limbo when you can't spawn |
| 00:39.42 | JefferyM | so you could say "hey, the admin locked you out" wait. |
| 00:39.48 | JefferyM | or later "map loading. wait" |
| 00:39.58 | javawizard2539 | That makes sense |
| 00:40.13 | javawizard2539 | but it still doesn't allow plugins to modify the spawn message, which I think would be a nice feature |
| 00:40.20 | JefferyM | sure |
| 00:40.24 | JefferyM | but that is a different feature |
| 00:40.28 | javawizard2539 | Why? |
| 00:40.32 | JefferyM | because it is |
| 00:40.46 | JefferyM | what kinda stuff do you want to say when they spawn? |
| 00:40.49 | javawizard2539 | The only difference is that the plugin sets the message when the user can't spawn, vs the plugin sets the message anyway |
| 00:41.03 | JefferyM | the plugin should not tell them what keys to press to spawn |
| 00:41.08 | JefferyM | it may not know the keys |
| 00:41.18 | JefferyM | the message uses the client's current input maping |
| 00:41.25 | JefferyM | what do you want to do? |
| 00:41.26 | javawizard2539 | No it doesn't |
| 00:41.29 | JefferyM | give me a usage case |
| 00:41.36 | javawizard2539 | I removed I from the key mapping and it still showed up |
| 00:41.37 | JefferyM | it's suposed to |
| 00:41.45 | JefferyM | give me a usage case |
| 00:41.54 | javawizard2539 | I'd been considering building a training server, for newbies |
| 00:42.06 | JefferyM | and what do you want to do with the spawn message? |
| 00:42.07 | javawizard2539 | And it could show a custom spawn message as they progress through different areas of training |
| 00:42.12 | JefferyM | ok |
| 00:42.15 | JefferyM | then you want dialogs |
| 00:42.20 | JefferyM | we have a planed feature for that |
| 00:42.33 | JefferyM | a message where the server tells the client "display this message" |
| 00:42.35 | javawizard2539 | Hmm |
| 00:42.37 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 00:42.43 | javawizard2539 | I'll wait then |
| 00:42.47 | JefferyM | then it can have lots of text, and OK buttons, etc.. |
| 00:42.56 | JefferyM | it was intended for server rules, and tutorials |
| 00:43.48 | JefferyM | if it's not using the current key maping for the message, then that is a bug |
| 00:43.55 | javawizard2539 | It isn't |
| 00:43.57 | javawizard2539 | I'll look into it |
| 00:44.03 | JefferyM | it should |
| 00:44.09 | JefferyM | and it should be localized |
| 00:44.55 | javawizard2539 | I take that back, I was editing the wrong key binding |
| 00:45.17 | javawizard2539 | The "right mouse or I" thing for both locking and spawning is throwing me off :) |
| 00:45.38 | JefferyM | heh |
| 00:47.02 | JefferyM | yeah what you want is additional info that is sent from the server to a specific player. that's the dialog project. THe limbo message is intended to display a message about why the user is in limbo, as under normal use, they should never be in limbo |
| 00:47.07 | JefferyM | except during loading |
| 00:47.17 | JefferyM | if you can spawn, you are not in limbo |
| 00:47.37 | javawizard2539 | So limbo is when you can't play, not when you're dead |
| 00:47.39 | JefferyM | waiting to spawn is the "dead" state not the "limbo" state |
| 00:47.41 | javawizard2539 | Ok, this is making more sense |
| 00:47.42 | JefferyM | yes |
| 00:48.15 | JefferyM | you are in limbo when you are joining a server, and being sent the map |
| 00:48.29 | JefferyM | we extended limbo so that people can be PUT into limbo |
| 00:48.37 | JefferyM | mostly for admin reasons |
| 00:49.37 | javawizard2539 | Oh, so that if someone's tk'ing or something, an admin can put them in limbo with a message like "you're tk'ing" or something |
| 00:49.43 | javawizard2539 | And then explain to them why they shoudln't do that |
| 00:49.46 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 00:49.48 | JefferyM | that's the goal |
| 00:49.53 | JefferyM | and prevent them from spawning |
| 00:49.54 | javawizard2539 | Ok |
| 00:50.00 | leeguy92 | hmm, if the server only sends pings to active(non observing) players, how does the server know if an observer has left uncleanly (like with f12)? |
| 00:50.00 | JefferyM | then you unlock them and they play |
| 00:50.02 | JefferyM | or you kick them |
| 00:50.10 | JefferyM | leeguy92, they timeout |
| 00:50.15 | JefferyM | leeguy92, what are you trying to do? |
| 00:50.45 | leeguy92 | im working on a cross server communication/player directory system. |
| 00:50.58 | leeguy92 | i notice nobody did it for GSOC |
| 00:51.20 | JefferyM | it would be easier to use a plugin that connects to your system then connecting to every server |
| 00:51.34 | JefferyM | push the data, rather then polling and wasting bandwith |
| 00:51.52 | JefferyM | I've done a comm plugin that uses IRC |
| 00:51.53 | javawizard2539 | One more question, related to my plugin |
| 00:51.59 | JefferyM | go for it |
| 00:52.11 | javawizard2539 | I have the java plugin so that it can do stuff like fire worldweapons, get player positions, etc. |
| 00:52.20 | JefferyM | k |
| 00:52.20 | javawizard2539 | At what point should I consider versioning it in bzflag? |
| 00:52.28 | JefferyM | what do you mean? |
| 00:52.38 | javawizard2539 | It gets kind of difficult trying to re-construct a previous version of some code if I mess something up |
| 00:52.55 | JefferyM | you mean using source controll? |
| 00:53.06 | javawizard2539 | And I saw that lua and python were versioned, so I was wondering how far the plugin should be in development before it can be versioned |
| 00:53.08 | javawizard2539 | yeah |
| 00:53.16 | JefferyM | the term you want is commited |
| 00:53.31 | JefferyM | for you I'd set it up as a google code project and get your VCS from there |
| 00:53.41 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 00:53.45 | JefferyM | I'm not sure that we need a java plugin in the mainline just yet |
| 00:53.51 | javawizard2539 | ok, that works |
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| 00:54.04 | JefferyM | google code projects are CAKE to setup |
| 00:54.10 | JefferyM | I use them for my own stuff all the time |
| 00:54.13 | JefferyM | and they are instant |
| 00:54.18 | JefferyM | not like SF |
| 00:55.19 | JefferyM | leeguy92, I assume you are looking at having an observer player join ever server to collect data? |
| 00:55.24 | leeguy92 | the main point is the player localisation thing(so you can tell where people are playing). I considered a plugin, but then i thought - how about a "bot program", which logs onto multiple servers, and keeps a directory? it keeps the load off of the server's network connections. i figured if i did it server-side, i would need some kind of distributed relayed query thing which would suck up bandwidth. |
| 00:55.29 | javawizard2539 | ooh, I like the sound of instant |
| 00:55.42 | javawizard2539 | As opposed to waiting for like 3 days, which I've had to do when I register SF projects |
| 00:56.05 | JefferyM | leeguy92, you are going to use the same number of server network load using observers |
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| 00:56.14 | JefferyM | and you actualy waste game sockets |
| 00:56.18 | JefferyM | so it's worse |
| 00:56.27 | leeguy92 | hmm, good point... |
| 00:56.35 | JefferyM | trust me, I've looked at this project quite a bit |
| 00:56.57 | JefferyM | you also lose the ability to send text messages as any other user |
| 00:57.06 | JefferyM | since you only have one connected observer |
| 00:57.16 | JefferyM | you also miss out on data when your observer gets booted |
| 00:57.27 | JefferyM | and your central server has to have a buttload of outgoing connections |
| 00:57.35 | JefferyM | with a plugin you can batch up the data |
| 00:57.41 | JefferyM | and just burst it off when needed |
| 00:57.46 | leeguy92 | a while back i hacked bzadmin for this purpose, and i noticed some problems like this. |
| 00:57.50 | JefferyM | and keep one connection for multiple people |
| 00:58.05 | JefferyM | you can also have the plugin create fake server side players |
| 00:58.10 | JefferyM | and have them chat as other people |
| 00:58.25 | JefferyM | they use a game slot, but not a socket or bandwith |
| 00:58.54 | JefferyM | but honestly, player tracking should be done at the list server level, or something like a list server |
| 00:59.07 | JefferyM | something we contact when data changes ( people leave/join) |
| 00:59.58 | JefferyM | all you really need is the game server to push up a data blob when someone connectes |
| 01:00.02 | leeguy92 | yeah, i guess so. lucky ive only done research so far. |
| 01:00.05 | JefferyM | then your server keep that info |
| 01:00.26 | JefferyM | trunk has the basics for a stat tracking/player tracking system in |
| 01:00.36 | JefferyM | where it sends players and scores to a central server |
| 01:00.43 | JefferyM | when players join and part |
| 01:00.53 | JefferyM | it just needs a bit more data |
| 01:01.09 | leeguy92 | does that use Server side plugin? |
| 01:01.09 | JefferyM | then our goal was to have that central server just expose the data for all servers via some XML API |
| 01:01.19 | JefferyM | no it's built in |
| 01:01.22 | leeguy92 | ah |
| 01:01.50 | JefferyM | it's goal is to get rid of the current stats site that polls all the servers |
| 01:01.53 | JefferyM | cus it's evil |
| 01:01.59 | leeguy92 | evil? |
| 01:02.02 | JefferyM | but it could easaly be the basis for a player tracker |
| 01:02.04 | JefferyM | polling is evil |
| 01:02.12 | leeguy92 | ah, i see |
| 01:02.14 | JefferyM | it can miss data, and wastes bandwith |
| 01:02.18 | JefferyM | spams servers, etc.. |
| 01:02.24 | JefferyM | server push is better |
| 01:02.38 | JefferyM | uses the min bandwith needed since it only pushes when stuff changes |
| 01:02.47 | JefferyM | and dosn't miss changes that happen between polls |
| 01:03.11 | JefferyM | but it's goal is to send a full set of player states |
| 01:03.18 | JefferyM | so that central server would know where everyone is |
| 01:03.23 | JefferyM | and when they leave |
| 01:03.36 | JefferyM | it coudl easaly be part of a friend tracker |
| 01:03.41 | JefferyM | assuming the friend is registered |
| 01:03.58 | leeguy92 | would admins have any control over the linked servers? |
| 01:03.58 | leeguy92 | i mean, we dont want hepcat linked to mofo or something. |
| 01:04.08 | JefferyM | tehre is no linking |
| 01:04.26 | JefferyM | the link you talk aobut is a problem for cross server chat |
| 01:04.29 | leeguy92 | ah right, sry, still thinking about cross-server chat |
| 01:04.30 | JefferyM | that's a seperate issue |
| 01:04.38 | JefferyM | yeah that has lots of social contations |
| 01:04.47 | JefferyM | as well as technical issues |
| 01:05.03 | JefferyM | the bzflag game requires a "Player" be attached to every chat message |
| 01:05.20 | JefferyM | so it's not easy to send messages from outside the game |
| 01:05.25 | JefferyM | they have to come from a valid playerID |
| 01:05.42 | leeguy92 | maybe a player called "external" or something? |
| 01:05.44 | JefferyM | and that playerID is only valid on the server that you receive it on |
| 01:05.46 | JefferyM | that's cheap |
| 01:05.53 | JefferyM | how would you repply? |
| 01:06.12 | JefferyM | brb, gotta jump a car |
| 01:06.15 | leeguy92 | custom command? /external "PLAYERNAME" "MSG" |
| 01:06.20 | JefferyM | again stupid |
| 01:06.33 | JefferyM | I solved this in an IRC<-> bzflag plugin |
| 01:06.38 | JefferyM | it makes fake players per IRC user |
| 01:06.43 | JefferyM | and an IRC bot for each player |
| 01:06.45 | JefferyM | it's in SVN |
| 01:06.46 | JefferyM | BRB |
| 01:16.18 | leeguy92 | that's enough coding talk for me, i gotta get my sleeps. bye, all. |
| 01:16.18 | leeguy92 | my next wacky idea: a dedicated bzflag console. |
| 01:16.21 | *** part/#bzflag leeguy92 (n=lee@host217-42-28-209.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:27.16 | javawizard2539 | Ok, I just have to ask what that would be about |
| 01:27.25 | javawizard2539 | heh, and now you're offline |
| 01:30.32 | JefferyM | I'm not entirely sure he knows how bzflag works |
| 01:30.46 | JefferyM | but he may be thinking of a playstation like thing that just plays bzflag |
| 01:34.52 | spldart | hrm... I just saw some adapter that ties playstation controllers into usb.... small world |
| 01:37.29 | Gabe_G23 | There is a BzFlag controller (made for computer though) on YouTube. |
| 01:38.05 | Gabe_G23 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byr3hv11f6U |
| 01:40.08 | blast007 | Gabe_G23: well, BZFlag would only run on a computer anyway ;) |
| 01:40.24 | Gabe_G23 | hehe, :) |
| 01:42.05 | blast007 | a "playstaion like thing" would be a smaller computer in a slim case |
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| 01:46.44 | blast007 | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4852301494.html <-- maybe something, like, oh, this? ;) |
| 01:47.44 | Gabe_G23 | :O |
| 01:47.48 | Gabe_G23 | bzflag would be awesome |
| 01:48.05 | Gabe_G23 | on that |
| 01:49.51 | MindstormsKid | wants to get that thing that you put on your head and you can control games with and try it with bzflag |
| 01:50.05 | MindstormsKid | ...but it costs $500 |
| 01:51.26 | Gabe_G23 | xD |
| 01:51.38 | Gabe_G23 | changing key mapping for head movements, kinda weird |
| 01:51.39 | blast007 | :) |
| 01:52.54 | blast007 | this would be cool as well, but probably wouldn't run BZFlag very well: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2315196306.html |
| 01:52.55 | MindstormsKid | well, it says it can be used on almost any pc game, without much configuration |
| 01:55.11 | me1 | MindstormsKid, you might get dizzy with that. :E |
| 01:55.39 | MindstormsKid | :P |
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| 03:19.06 | nn-main | Why do shots stop working on a bzfs Rabbit chase game ??? |
| 03:23.32 | fatass | as in, you can't shoot? |
| 03:49.14 | javawizard2539 | nn-main: ^ |
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| 04:25.05 | blast007 | nn-main: probably has nothing to do with the game mode. Are you messing around with /set a lot? |
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| 04:57.22 | Quol | hello all |
| 04:58.09 | blast007 | hi |
| 04:58.34 | Quol | anybody here know if I can deny /clientquery in bzfs group file - or somehow? |
| 04:58.38 | Quol | nhey blast |
| 04:58.45 | Quol | lol - there I go with the'n' kjey :) |
| 04:58.58 | blast007 | ;) |
| 04:59.03 | blast007 | and no, I don't think you can |
| 04:59.12 | Quol | ya - didn't think I could.. |
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| 14:11.20 | nn-main | Any reason that bzfmaps.net:: 8014 is not respondind correctly to global login ? |
| 14:14.03 | TheRedBaron | blast007: actually - i think you can deny /clientquery |
| 14:14.36 | TheRedBaron | or at least you used to. However - i'm not sure if it was done through a plugin |
| 14:14.54 | nn-main | I'm also wondering if there is a Shot packet Call back for plugins? |
| 14:15.09 | nn-main | I want to fix proximity mine |
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| 14:16.01 | nn-main | or make it into somthing like proximity shot |
| 14:16.19 | nn-main | you shot to set the mine when you have usless flag |
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| 15:30.39 | joevano | nn-main: i don't quite follow, can you explain it in better english? |
| 15:33.54 | nn-main | joevano, I want to run the set mine code on the players next shot how do i do that ? |
| 15:36.22 | blast007 | nn-main: what? .. |
| 15:36.46 | blast007 | TheRedBaron: sure, it's possible with a bzfs modificiation, but not without that afaik |
| 15:37.01 | blast007 | I don't even think a plugin can disable that functionality |
| 15:37.44 | TheRedBaron | blast007: its a command - just like /lagstats. lagstats can be denied via group files. |
| 15:38.02 | blast007 | right... but I don't think there is a permission for that... |
| 15:38.29 | Winny | TheRedBaron: do -CLIENTQUERY I think |
| 15:38.30 | TheRedBaron | hrm, seems a bit inconsistent if you ask me :) |
| 15:38.30 | joevano | correct there is no permission for that |
| 15:38.38 | Winny | at least it used to |
| 15:38.50 | Winny | I remember GU:5154 used to do that |
| 15:38.52 | blast007 | TheRedBaron: inconsistent? not really |
| 15:39.02 | TheRedBaron | Winny: thats I thought - and the ducati league used to be like that. |
| 15:39.17 | blast007 | it's just the way it was done |
| 15:39.27 | TheRedBaron | blast007: that you can restrict /lagstats but not /clientquery |
| 15:39.29 | blast007 | probably with a bzfs modification |
| 15:40.05 | joevano | personally, i think it is kind of funny to disable client query |
| 15:40.08 | joevano | what is the use? |
| 15:40.12 | TheRedBaron | Winny: if you see quol - remind him. |
| 15:40.49 | TheRedBaron | joevano: originally - the leagues blocked it because we had paranoid players constantly running /clientquery - looking for 'cheaters' |
| 15:41.12 | blast007 | mod the servers then |
| 15:41.41 | blast007 | originally it wasn't a command, iirc (looong ago) |
| 15:41.55 | blast007 | used to be able to send "CLIENTQUERY" in all caps ;) |
| 15:42.53 | joevano | TheRedBaron: seems kinda silly, both you and I know that a cheater isn't going to have it in the query string |
| 15:43.09 | TheRedBaron | joevano: you and I are not the average player ;) |
| 15:43.14 | joevano | true |
| 15:43.35 | TheRedBaron | and plus if you build it from source - you'd have a different query string |
| 15:43.39 | TheRedBaron | source/svn |
| 15:43.54 | TheRedBaron | so it let to a flurry of retarded accusations - hence the disabling of /clientquery |
| 15:44.32 | Winny | joevano: one of the norang admins, WHAMO!! I think, bans people if they don't have a windows query string |
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| 15:44.42 | Winny | because they're "cheating" |
| 15:44.57 | joevano | he won't anymore :E |
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| 15:46.44 | TheRedBaron | Winny: nope, doesn't look like -CLIENTQUERY works. |
| 15:46.52 | Winny | poo |
| 15:47.48 | TheRedBaron | plus - /clientquery broadcasts to all the players in PM - and lets you know who ran it. |
| 15:48.23 | TheRedBaron | Some people took this as an insult, thinking that the person who ran /clientquery suspected them of cheating. |
| 15:48.28 | TheRedBaron | which back then - usually was the case. |
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| 16:10.01 | *** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 16:10.16 | nn-main | hi |
| 16:10.24 | nn-main | im having trubble with bzadmin |
| 16:10.49 | nn-main | I'm hacking it for the secound time and I don't know any thing about MakeFiles |
| 16:10.56 | blast007 | ok.. |
| 16:11.08 | nn-main | How do I add gtk libs to the make file of bzadmin |
| 16:11.47 | nn-main | As well as sevral new CPP files |
| 16:13.29 | blast007 | I think you would modify the Makefile.am |
| 16:13.58 | blast007 | and technically you'd want to modify the configure script too and make it look for GTK |
| 16:14.10 | blast007 | but didn't someone already make a graphical bzadmin client? |
| 16:14.30 | blast007 | (or maybe I'm thinking of a server listing application) |
| 16:14.47 | nn-main | lol |
| 16:15.08 | nn-main | I actually want to see the tanks .... Most of my computers have no 3d what so ever |
| 16:15.28 | nn-main | so this bzadmin is like a radar viewer |
| 16:16.41 | blast007 | yeah, gBZAdmin was created by anomaly, though I'm not sure if he ever released it |
| 16:17.24 | blast007 | ah, the source was released |
| 16:17.31 | blast007 | and you might want to get it quickly |
| 16:17.37 | blast007 | svn://bzfx.net:6062/gbzadmin |
| 16:17.47 | blast007 | not sure if that's gonna be there later |
| 16:19.06 | *** join/#bzflag nijineko (n=nijineko@adsl-69-106-84-141.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 16:21.54 | nn-main | that address keeps crashing my svn client |
| 16:22.22 | nn-main | how do i make the config scrip search for gtk |
| 16:22.37 | blast007 | nn-main: I have no idea |
| 16:22.44 | blast007 | I use Windows mainly :P |
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| 16:25.56 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon1 (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-011-180.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 16:26.03 | TD-Linux | ~seen a_meteorite |
| 16:26.04 | ibot | a_meteorite is currently on #bzflag (11h 49m 19s) ##bspress (11h 49m 19s) ##essy (11h 49m 19s), last said: 'I love hugs'. |
| 16:26.20 | Winny | a_meteorite: LOUD PING |
| 16:26.20 | TD-Linux | a_meteorite: I have a map for you |
| 16:27.23 | *** join/#bzflag temp_work (n=temporal@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 16:27.37 | blast007 | nn-main: and yeah, I can't get that SVN link to work either :( |
| 16:27.52 | Winny | blames temp_work |
| 16:28.08 | blast007 | nn-main: but here's what it looked like: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/files/bot_rules_218.png |
| 16:28.38 | blast007 | somehow I don't think yours would be that good, based on the UI of your editor... |
| 16:29.13 | temp_work | it's all my fault, sry man |
| 16:29.19 | TD-Linux | 's will have a zoomable user interface, multitouch, and 3d widgets! |
| 16:29.36 | blast007 | TD-Linux: your bzadmin client will? :P |
| 16:29.47 | TD-Linux | yes |
| 16:29.58 | TD-Linux | it will also take advantage of multiple connections to reduce lag |
| 16:29.59 | blast007 | k.. |
| 16:30.14 | blast007 | blinks |
| 16:32.19 | joevano | nn-main: what is this you are speaking of? .. see the tanks... do you mean get a list of players? |
| 16:32.31 | *** join/#bzflag ThePurplePanzer (n=bentz@64-252-80-151.adsl.snet.net) |
| 16:33.54 | ThePurplePanzer | Does anyone know why (or how to avoid) having tanks get 'trapped' by meshblocks or meshes - sometimes I find myself stuck inside after contact, with controls reversed. |
| 16:35.22 | nn-main | that client looks coolk |
| 16:35.30 | nn-main | where is it available |
| 16:35.59 | joevano | nn-main: blast gave you the link |
| 16:36.02 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 16:36.31 | nn-main | blast007, my gktbzadmin is basically a tank position viewer with a fiew extras |
| 16:37.09 | *** part/#bzflag rowrbazzle (n=jwelsh@loki.eemta.org) |
| 16:37.26 | nn-main | joevano, what link all i saw was a link to an image |
| 16:37.40 | nn-main | unless they got the svn working |
| 16:38.16 | joevano | nn-main: the svn is where the client is/was.. it is not OUR client |
| 16:38.42 | joevano | nor is it our svn link to fix |
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| 16:45.56 | *** join/#bzflag TkTech_ (n=tktech@bas1-ottawa23-1167871524.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:03.21 | blast007 | ThePurplePanzer: with mesh objects it might help to use inside and/or outside points |
| 17:10.35 | blast007 | not sure about meshbox |
| 17:11.20 | blast007 | nn-main: so it's not really a bzadmin client, it's a 2D graphical client where you can't move ;) |
| 17:12.28 | *** join/#bzflag JefferyM (n=JefferyM@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 17:12.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JefferyM] by ChanServ |
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| 17:35.03 | nn-main | kindive blast007 |
| 17:37.11 | JefferyM | kindive? is that some sort of sport you do with cousins? |
| 17:38.16 | Winny | haha |
| 17:38.17 | nn-main | JefferyM, HI |
| 17:38.21 | JefferyM | hello |
| 17:38.29 | nn-main | nice to see you again ! |
| 17:38.39 | JefferyM | again? |
| 17:38.39 | nn-main | you haven't been around much |
| 17:38.44 | JefferyM | I was on last night |
| 17:38.46 | JefferyM | and yesterday |
| 17:38.53 | nn-main | oh |
| 17:39.39 | JefferyM | how's it going? |
| 17:44.59 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg_ (n=Default@24-158-73-008.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 17:58.21 | TheRedBaron | JefferyM ? no more JeffM ? |
| 17:58.36 | joevano | he's all growed up ;) |
| 17:58.42 | TheRedBaron | awww |
| 17:58.45 | TheRedBaron | *sniff* |
| 18:00.02 | JefferyM | they changed my login at work |
| 18:00.10 | JefferyM | and xchat picked it up |
| 18:00.16 | JefferyM | so I'll be this name when I'm at work |
| 18:00.41 | JefferyM | JeffM got courpted in the active directory |
| 18:01.23 | TheRedBaron | makes sense |
| 18:01.38 | JefferyM | I want to get rid of the 2501 one |
| 18:01.44 | TheRedBaron | heh |
| 18:01.49 | JefferyM | but some machines are still set to use it |
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| 18:56.13 | ThePurplePanzer | blast007: I was out for a bit (running in and out now) - what if the mesh is just, say, a wall, without an "inside" or "outside"? I could specify an "inside" and "outside" that might be very locally true, but not globally correct - would that help, or hurt? (I may just try it, but I'm not sure of what all the problems might be). |
| 18:56.35 | blast007 | not sure how that work work |
| 18:56.42 | blast007 | you probably wouldn't have an 'inside' there |
| 18:56.56 | ThePurplePanzer | ANy idea what causes the funny tank capture? |
| 18:57.14 | blast007 | the collision code isn't perfect |
| 18:57.34 | blast007 | there's a lot of glitches like that (like for linux clients that get stuck in teleporters when they are over a mesh) |
| 18:57.41 | ThePurplePanzer | I've taken to putting old V1 style blocks, very thin ones, under the walls, hoping that will help |
| 18:58.14 | ThePurplePanzer | But with angled walls, people can drop onto the middle of a side. I'll experiment with the inside/outside points where I can, and see what it does. |
| 18:58.29 | ThePurplePanzer | (Got to head out now, to run #1 daughter off to workout - back later) |
| 18:59.01 | MindstormsKid | oh hi ThePurplePanzer |
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| 19:02.50 | JefferyM | ThePurplePanzer, as in a single plane that has no thickness? |
| 19:04.35 | *** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@78-86-140-200.zone2.bethere.co.uk) |
| 19:23.46 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=khazhy@bzflag/player/Me1) |
| 19:36.50 | ThePurplePanzer | Yes, JefferyM - often part of a very large space that may not be topologically closed. |
| 19:42.47 | ThePurplePanzer | For instance, angled trench walls below a raised 'groundlevel' that may go to the edge of the map, but not form a closed solid |
| 19:50.43 | joevano | ThePurplePanzer: but there is techically "space" under the edge correct? so it could be made into a closed space... am I missing something? |
| 19:58.09 | ThePurplePanzer | Yes, it could - but it seems wasteful to have meshes that will never be rendered, just to close the space. Also I create the meshes programmatically and/or by hand, and I'm a little worried I might miss joining things exactly someplace. |
| 19:58.31 | ThePurplePanzer | Kind of like when you use a paint program and go to fill an area, and due to a 1 pixel gap you fill everything. |
| 19:58.50 | MindstormsKid | :P |
| 19:59.39 | ThePurplePanzer | But - if it makes it work, I can fully close the spaces and double check everything. |
| 20:03.50 | ThePurplePanzer | The code I wrote to create hills sets up an inside point. On the map I'm working on, I shifted the hills up, and found a very bizarre artifact - a spot on the map that seemed to have a transparent object with minimal height - if you ever got on it you couldn't move or jump. It was quite weird, and took me a while to track down. Removing the "inside" point from the hills took care of it. |
| 20:45.09 | JefferyM | ThePurplePanzer, for our collsion system you'd techincaly want to model them in as part of some ground "solid" |
| 20:45.21 | JefferyM | we realy only have the concept of solid objects |
| 20:45.37 | JefferyM | so open faces will have issues from some direction |
| 20:46.01 | JefferyM | for collisions what works ( from best to worst ) is |
| 20:46.13 | JefferyM | 1) manifold convex solids |
| 20:46.29 | JefferyM | 2) manifold concave solids with inside/outside points |
| 20:46.54 | JefferyM | 2) non manifold convex polysoup |
| 20:46.56 | JefferyM | sorry 3 |
| 20:47.13 | JefferyM | 4) random polysoup (including single faces) |
| 20:47.43 | JefferyM | single faces can work as long as you can ensure that the tank will always be on one side of them, the side where the normal points |
| 20:52.23 | a_meteorite | TD-Linux: pong |
| 20:52.28 | TD-Linux | OH HI |
| 20:52.29 | a_meteorite | a map? |
| 20:52.31 | TD-Linux | a_meteorite |
| 20:52.33 | a_meteorite | with no server though :( |
| 20:52.38 | TD-Linux | oh :( |
| 20:52.40 | TD-Linux | it's boxywar |
| 20:52.42 | TD-Linux | christmas edition |
| 20:52.47 | a_meteorite | oi |
| 20:53.04 | a_meteorite | I just got up, I'm checking PMs, we might have a temporary home. not sure. |
| 20:53.39 | TD-Linux | okay |
| 20:53.47 | TD-Linux | should I PM or email you the map? |
| 20:53.49 | a_meteorite | TD-Linux: email it to me at bzmeteorite@gmail.com anyways, I'll see what I can do |
| 20:53.57 | TD-Linux | also: I need to fix a couple things on it first |
| 20:54.04 | TD-Linux | but it's mostly ready to go |
| 20:54.09 | Winny | We're gonna stay at the Y M C A |
| 20:54.51 | Winny | (temporary home, get it?_ |
| 20:54.53 | Winny | ha ha ha |
| 20:54.56 | a_meteorite | Winny: only if their interwebz is at least 10Mbps |
| 20:58.05 | TD-Linux | alrighty I think it's ready |
| 20:58.18 | TD-Linux | a_meteorite, want preview? |
| 20:58.29 | a_meteorite | so anyone out there listening, BZFX needs a home, if you have spare bandwidth resources... give me a jingle :) |
| 20:58.33 | a_meteorite | </end plug> |
| 20:58.39 | a_meteorite | TD-Linux: sure |
| 20:58.54 | TD-Linux | 96.42.91.234:5154 |
| 20:59.29 | JefferyM | how many servers? |
| 21:00.11 | a_meteorite | a few, I've never seen more than 1 fill up though |
| 21:00.22 | a_meteorite | probably less than 5-10 |
| 21:00.32 | JefferyM | you can't give a finite number? |
| 21:00.45 | Winny | Missile War uses like 4mbits at peak with 30 players |
| 21:00.51 | Winny | I doubt you need a 10mbit line |
| 21:00.58 | a_meteorite | Winny: I know |
| 21:01.12 | a_meteorite | 3Mbit upload would be plenty |
| 21:01.13 | TD-Linux | brb, I won't be at that server but you can check it out |
| 21:01.16 | JefferyM | how much monthly? |
| 21:01.20 | a_meteorite | none of our servers host than many players |
| 21:01.42 | a_meteorite | JefferyM: our last graph showed somewhere around 10GB usage, but I imagine a popular month may be on the order of 150GB |
| 21:01.54 | JefferyM | and how much CPU |
| 21:01.58 | JefferyM | I'm looking for specifics |
| 21:02.01 | JefferyM | I have hosting |
| 21:02.14 | JefferyM | but I won't do anything if it's going to impact what we do now |
| 21:02.26 | a_meteorite | about 15% CPU of a single Celeron DC core |
| 21:02.38 | JefferyM | that seems high |
| 21:03.09 | a_meteorite | I think some of our debian scripts might have been a bit whonky |
| 21:03.09 | a_meteorite | it never affected us so I didn't spend the time seeing what cron was doing |
| 21:03.26 | JefferyM | what "debian scripts" do you run |
| 21:03.49 | JefferyM | what is your channel we can talk there |
| 21:03.52 | a_meteorite | #bzfx |
| 21:31.10 | a_meteorite | TD-Linux: did you send them? |
| 21:31.14 | TD-Linux | not yet |
| 21:31.16 | a_meteorite | ah ok |
| 21:31.18 | TD-Linux | I will now |
| 21:31.24 | a_meteorite | if it's done |
| 21:31.25 | TD-Linux | I think most of the bugs are gone |
| 21:31.40 | a_meteorite | did you update the original at all? |
| 21:31.49 | TD-Linux | a little |
| 21:32.03 | TD-Linux | like, none :P |
| 21:32.04 | a_meteorite | k maybe you can send a copy of that as well :) |
| 21:32.07 | a_meteorite | oh |
| 21:32.08 | TD-Linux | well a little bit |
| 21:32.16 | TD-Linux | I might work on it more |
| 21:32.16 | a_meteorite | well, those are a little bit of changes I don't have |
| 21:32.21 | a_meteorite | ok |
| 21:32.26 | TD-Linux | I'll just zip up this entire folder |
| 21:32.30 | TD-Linux | it's got lots of junk in it |
| 21:32.37 | a_meteorite | one man's treasure... |
| 21:32.48 | a_meteorite | er, junk |
| 21:34.08 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.120.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
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| 22:46.06 | *** join/#bzflag dexter- (n=whodaman@bzflag/player/Dexter) |
| 22:46.20 | dexter- | Any BZBB admins around? |
| 22:47.25 | JefferyM | it's your fault |
| 22:47.29 | JefferyM | can't do anything about it |
| 22:48.01 | dexter- | really? |
| 22:48.08 | JefferyM | you gave up the name when you changed it |
| 22:48.23 | JefferyM | it's perfectly fine for someone else to use it |
| 22:48.24 | dexter- | How did you know what the problem was |
| 22:48.31 | JefferyM | I'm psycic |
| 22:49.26 | dexter- | lol |
| 22:49.33 | dexter- | wow, i didnt realize you were there |
| 22:49.38 | JefferyM | I know |
| 22:53.36 | Winny | JefferyM is silent like ninja |
| 22:54.38 | JefferyM | can not stress how important it is to keep your name if you value it |
| 22:55.54 | javawizard2539 | What name did he have? |
| 22:56.06 | Winny | dexter-: did they take whodaman-, or dexter |
| 22:56.13 | dexter- | ROFL |
| 22:56.18 | JefferyM | you got it back |
| 22:56.35 | dexter- | Asmeouuuus took it, to save it from somebody else taking it |
| 22:56.44 | Winny | don't change your name |
| 22:56.48 | dexter- | i wont |
| 22:57.01 | JefferyM | make another account and change that between names you don't care about |
| 22:57.32 | dexter- | yea |
| 22:57.44 | javawizard2539 | dexter-: I have both javawizard2539 and jcp (and javawizard for that matter) registered |
| 22:57.45 | dexter- | i learned my lesson ^^ |
| 22:58.00 | javawizard2539 | I use all of them, and I've made sure not to delete any of them, even if I won't use it for a while :) |
| 22:58.24 | JefferyM | this is one reason I'd like to move to a more MMO style user system |
| 22:58.37 | JefferyM | where we have users and "callsigns" |
| 22:58.47 | JefferyM | each user can have like 4-5 callsigns |
| 22:58.52 | dexter- | yea |
| 22:58.53 | JefferyM | like characters in WoW |
| 22:58.56 | dexter- | but one user |
| 22:58.59 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:59.02 | dexter- | make us pay! |
| 22:59.03 | dexter- | :P |
| 22:59.10 | JefferyM | it's been discussed |
| 22:59.21 | JefferyM | special servers for "members" |
| 22:59.25 | javawizard2539 | to pay?! |
| 22:59.25 | JefferyM | or donators |
| 22:59.27 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:59.35 | javawizard2539 | for a bzflag username? |
| 22:59.49 | javawizard2539 | or for multiple callsigns? |
| 23:00.17 | javawizard2539 | casts his conceptual vote in opposition |
| 23:00.35 | JefferyM | no no, as a seperate thing |
| 23:00.43 | JefferyM | unrelated |
| 23:01.05 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 23:01.18 | JefferyM | having some services, like a special server, has been discussed as a donation/subscription incentive |
| 23:01.21 | JefferyM | totaly optional |
| 23:01.25 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 23:01.30 | javawizard2539 | feels much better |
| 23:01.42 | JefferyM | basicly like, if you support the project, you can play on our "members" only server |
| 23:02.02 | JefferyM | that would have no cheaters, etcc. cus everyone would be reged, and be paying to play there |
| 23:02.35 | JefferyM | the user/callsign thing is just how I'd like to see the login system go |
| 23:02.37 | javawizard2539 | envisions skeletron or nightmare paying $1 as a donation to spam the heck out of the servers :) |
| 23:02.41 | JefferyM | transitioning to it would be a pita |
| 23:02.49 | JefferyM | javawizard2539, they'd do that once |
| 23:02.52 | JefferyM | we'd ban the ID |
| 23:02.59 | dexter- | but keep the money. |
| 23:02.59 | JefferyM | and get a dollar |
| 23:03.02 | JefferyM | exactly |
| 23:03.05 | javawizard2539 | :D |
| 23:03.09 | dexter- | highfives jeff |
| 23:03.16 | JefferyM | he'd be paying us for our time |
| 23:03.21 | dexter- | yea, seriously |
| 23:03.22 | JefferyM | and he'd only be able to do it once per name |
| 23:03.29 | javawizard2539 | At which point you'd probably be glad to have him cheating :) |
| 23:03.31 | JefferyM | lot simpler for us, much harder for him |
| 23:03.54 | JefferyM | take a lot longer for a paypal transaction to go thru then it does for him to change IP |
| 23:04.10 | javawizard2539 | Which reminds me |
| 23:04.27 | javawizard2539 | He was on bzflagr a couple days ago, and was sending messages that were all in white and whatever he wanted |
| 23:04.32 | javawizard2539 | Without appearing in the user list |
| 23:04.35 | javawizard2539 | How is that possible? |
| 23:04.52 | javawizard2539 | thought that it would show up as UNKNOWN: ... |
| 23:05.03 | javawizard2539 | (he = nightmare) |
| 23:08.09 | JefferyM | that means that server is old |
| 23:08.34 | JefferyM | bug in the server used to let you send a chat message before you loged in |
| 23:09.11 | KTL | is there a way to change the ground texture? without explicitly replacing the ground with faces? |
| 23:09.59 | JefferyM | yes |
| 23:10.10 | JefferyM | change the ground material |
| 23:10.13 | KTL | ah |
| 23:10.27 | KTL | magic name GroundMaterial |
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