| 00:05.34 | Abominable | Would anyone happen to know a reason why bzflag goes nr everytime I start it? |
| 00:05.40 | Abominable | Any common reasons. |
| 00:08.31 | spldart | Other than packet loss? Say having issues with udp but tcp gets through.. or loss of to many packets in general or something. |
| 00:08.42 | spldart | Fraid not |
| 00:09.02 | spldart | Somebody else might :) |
| 00:11.26 | Abominable | When I open it, the program goes NR |
| 00:11.39 | Abominable | this has never happened before, it's strange. |
| 00:11.52 | spldart | OH!... from the beginining |
| 00:12.12 | spldart | windoze or wimux? |
| 00:12.22 | Abominable | Win |
| 00:12.26 | spldart | er or mr mac |
| 00:12.27 | spldart | oh |
| 00:12.45 | spldart | can you navigate the menus just fine? |
| 00:12.53 | Abominable | nope |
| 00:13.05 | Abominable | I click it and it opens as NR |
| 00:13.09 | spldart | And this is all of a sudden? |
| 00:13.33 | Abominable | Yeah. |
| 00:13.35 | spldart | No driver updates, windows updates, new bzflag ver. installed |
| 00:13.39 | spldart | woah |
| 00:14.02 | spldart | Do you have any other 3d games installed and if so do they still work just fine? |
| 00:14.07 | Abominable | The source is fine, no viruses, all drivers installed. |
| 00:14.08 | Abominable | Yeah |
| 00:14.18 | Abominable | WoW works fine |
| 00:14.51 | spldart | I'm afraid that I've not seen that issue yet... But I'm sure somebody more knowledgable than me will come along and see what has been said so far and be able to offer more. |
| 00:15.02 | spldart | And |
| 00:15.06 | Abominable | CPU is at 20% Phys memoory is at 19% so sustem isn't over powered. |
| 00:15.13 | Abominable | system* |
| 00:15.17 | spldart | I'm sure someone will say... delete your bzflag config file and restart the app |
| 00:15.18 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:15.41 | Happy_Alice | maybe it is because ur look too much abominable ? (about the nr) ;-) |
| 00:15.42 | Abominable | Well I uninstalled and reinstalled, same problem. |
| 00:15.51 | Abominable | Happy_Alice: Har har |
| 00:16.06 | spldart | Not even a small hardware change like a new monitor? |
| 00:16.15 | Abominable | I did get a new monitor |
| 00:16.16 | Happy_Alice | OS ? |
| 00:16.18 | Abominable | but I playedon it |
| 00:16.21 | spldart | really? |
| 00:16.28 | Abominable | I got it, started bzflag, ran fine |
| 00:16.34 | spldart | oh |
| 00:16.38 | Happy_Alice | what is ur OS? |
| 00:16.40 | Abominable | came home today, tried to start it,fail. |
| 00:16.44 | spldart | windoze |
| 00:16.56 | Abominable | Happy_Alice: Windows vista home premium |
| 00:17.14 | Happy_Alice | a new SP installed? |
| 00:17.19 | spldart | eeyyuuwaaah |
| 00:17.20 | Abominable | nope |
| 00:17.36 | Abominable | At least I haven't installed it |
| 00:18.22 | Happy_Alice | have u tried an other PC ? |
| 00:18.32 | Abominable | Yup |
| 00:18.34 | Abominable | works fine there |
| 00:18.41 | Abominable | but the other computer is total rubbish |
| 00:18.42 | Happy_Alice | just to check if it is related to ur network ? |
| 00:18.59 | Happy_Alice | so it happens only wit tis PC? |
| 00:19.00 | spldart | if jeff shows back up then he may be able to continue help.. I believe he does prefer the microsoft solution ;) |
| 00:19.03 | Abominable | It's not |
| 00:19.18 | Abominable | alright |
| 00:19.57 | spldart | I'm resisting the vista alternative. Dual boot xp pro and Deb lenny here. |
| 00:20.14 | Think_Differentl | vista isn't so bad |
| 00:20.40 | spldart | yes and no |
| 00:20.52 | Abominable | I used to dual boot Vista and Ubuntu |
| 00:21.07 | Happy_Alice | have u tried under ubuntu on this OC? |
| 00:21.08 | Abominable | Until I got a new computer and it told me to get lost. |
| 00:21.21 | Happy_Alice | s/OC/PC |
| 00:21.21 | spldart | I wont say it's bad. But it's worse in some key areas that I'm interested in and better in areas I have no interest. |
| 00:21.39 | Abominable | Vista is still a baby, as I see it |
| 00:21.47 | Abominable | It needs time to perfect, if that will ever happen. |
| 00:21.48 | Winny | it's been out for two years |
| 00:21.55 | Happy_Alice | a baby with a new replacement ? |
| 00:21.58 | Think_Differentl | SP1 solved any issues |
| 00:22.01 | Think_Differentl | for me, at least |
| 00:22.21 | Happy_Alice | So abominable? do u have dual boot on this PC ? |
| 00:22.31 | Think_Differentl | everything has been rock solid. a few times i've booted up and I got a BSOD with a message about the BIOS not being ACPI compliant |
| 00:22.31 | Abominable | Happy_Alice: I said no |
| 00:22.39 | Think_Differentl | but that's a board problem, not Vista |
| 00:22.41 | Happy_Alice | Abominable: i didt see |
| 00:22.44 | Happy_Alice | sorry |
| 00:22.48 | spldart | hopes that lenny plus some tricks allow me to break from the need for windows altogether |
| 00:22.52 | Abominable | Happy_Alice: It's all cheese :) |
| 00:22.55 | Think_Differentl | much more stable than XP, and a bit faster for me |
| 00:23.10 | spldart | tricks = dosbox and wine allowing a complete break from windows as the kernel in fashion |
| 00:23.19 | Abominable | I like ubuntu with byrl |
| 00:23.20 | Happy_Alice | vista?Think_differentl? |
| 00:23.28 | Think_Differentl | yeah, vista. |
| 00:23.33 | Think_Differentl | vista enterprise. |
| 00:23.41 | Abominable | beyrl |
| 00:23.42 | Happy_Alice | i have compiz-fusion..Beryl is still supporteD? |
| 00:23.50 | Abominable | can't spell today |
| 00:24.04 | Think_Differentl | beyrl merged with compiz-fusion, iirc |
| 00:24.05 | Abominable | When I had ubuntu, yeah. |
| 00:24.18 | Happy_Alice | a long time ago ? |
| 00:24.28 | Abominable | about 2 years. |
| 00:24.32 | Think_Differentl | around 7.10 i think |
| 00:24.39 | Abominable | No way to get compiz with vista is there? |
| 00:24.44 | Happy_Alice | 0_o |
| 00:24.56 | Think_Differentl | nope, compiz runs on X |
| 00:24.56 | spldart | hrm... |
| 00:25.00 | Abominable | poo |
| 00:25.15 | spldart | I've never even thought to ask.. Will Vista play nice dual booted using grub? |
| 00:26.00 | Abominable | What kind of computer? |
| 00:26.03 | Think_Differentl | i think you have to install vista and then overwrite its bootloader with GRUB |
| 00:26.04 | spldart | ... sry ot |
| 00:26.08 | Happy_Alice | i have vista + Hardy on my laptop. But it was installed by someone else |
| 00:26.21 | spldart | So it is possible |
| 00:26.29 | spldart | that's promising |
| 00:26.32 | Happy_Alice | but..i am not sure there iis grub |
| 00:26.56 | Happy_Alice | and dont ask me to reboot to check what is it ;-) |
| 00:27.01 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:27.11 | Abominable | http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/grubconf-for-windows-vista-or-xp-dual-boot/ |
| 00:27.32 | Think_Differentl | i'd check on the forums. |
| 00:27.37 | Think_Differentl | ...or that |
| 00:27.47 | Abominable | With my computer, I would have to change the system kernals to run unix, linux, OSX or anything else that's notvista. |
| 00:27.53 | spldart | thankies for the link |
| 00:27.59 | Abominable | It's made FOR vista, lame. |
| 00:28.02 | Abominable | No prob. |
| 00:28.26 | Happy_Alice | the kernel system of ur indows? |
| 00:28.30 | Think_Differentl | uh, you mean it has the little sticker? |
| 00:28.30 | Happy_Alice | windows* |
| 00:28.47 | Abominable | Happy_Alice: Yes |
| 00:28.53 | Happy_Alice | woooow |
| 00:28.56 | Think_Differentl | it should run any OS, so long as it has some type of BIOS that doesn't restrict booting of other OSs |
| 00:29.20 | Happy_Alice | i like BIOS :-) |
| 00:29.21 | spldart | You did try deleting or renaming your config file just to see if the recreated one plays nicer? |
| 00:29.27 | Abominable | Mine doesn't though |
| 00:29.30 | Abominable | Well it CAN |
| 00:29.32 | Abominable | but poorly. |
| 00:29.46 | Abominable | No sound, crappy resolution, unfixable. |
| 00:29.56 | Abominable | Can't download anything or put any plugins on it |
| 00:29.57 | Think_Differentl | sounds like more of a driver problem |
| 00:30.05 | spldart | OMG.. the idea of BIOS being restrictive of OS in ANY way is revulting. |
| 00:30.10 | Abominable | It's almost like running on the live CD, in the ghetto |
| 00:30.24 | Abominable | Couldn't download drivers either |
| 00:30.38 | spldart | [cartman] In the ghetto [/cartman sing song] |
| 00:30.46 | Abominable | lool |
| 00:30.48 | Think_Differentl | spldart, it was either gigabyte or foxxconn who was implimenting malicious code to make linux boot badly |
| 00:31.08 | spldart | intentionally? |
| 00:31.35 | spldart | Cuz I will embargo their booties ;) |
| 00:31.50 | Think_Differentl | it's hard to say if it was intentional |
| 00:31.52 | spldart | n/m |
| 00:31.56 | Think_Differentl | but here is the link: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249 |
| 00:32.01 | spldart | malicious = intentional |
| 00:32.35 | Happy_Alice | is someone knows java here? |
| 00:32.43 | Happy_Alice | i have 1 question |
| 00:32.49 | Think_Differentl | spldart, i think it is, since they don't really care too much, or so it seems |
| 00:32.51 | Happy_Alice | only 1 very easy question |
| 00:33.40 | spldart | This may be a dumb question... And obviously off topic... But what would motivate that action on their part? |
| 00:33.55 | Think_Differentl | maybe a bonus from MS? I dunno |
| 00:34.10 | Happy_Alice | M$ :-) |
| 00:34.12 | spldart | A very dark and dangerous possiblity |
| 00:34.49 | spldart | invokes legal issues with monopolies and stuff |
| 00:34.56 | spldart | grr.. |
| 00:35.00 | spldart | way to ot |
| 00:35.06 | spldart | I'm gonna shut up now |
| 00:35.09 | spldart | :) |
| 00:35.34 | Think_Differentl | i've never had any problem with my Asus boards and linux, so i don't know much about the foxconn ones |
| 00:40.17 | Happy_Alice | consider it was not possible to install something else than OSX on apple computer. It is not a scandal if it is not possbile to install something else than M$ on a PC |
| 00:42.07 | spldart | Slight different scenario.... I assume the foxconn and gigabyte issue was motherboard even if sold as piecemeal hardware. |
| 00:42.18 | spldart | ....I know I know.. I said I'd shut up :( |
| 00:42.22 | spldart | :-x |
| 00:43.08 | Happy_Alice | dont shut up |
| 00:43.29 | spldart | I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't care if say XBox had some anti other OS stuff in some eeprom that pretended to be a proper bios ;) |
| 00:43.41 | spldart | It's there perogative |
| 00:45.43 | spldart | Now if a mobo in question came with full literature saying "We are MS compliant and have no support nor interest in ANY other OS" then maybe I'd be ok too. |
| 00:51.45 | spldart | Hrm... Where are the brainiacs? |
| 00:56.55 | *** join/#bzflag tsykoduk (n=tsykoduk@97-114-77-127.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 00:57.06 | blast007 | Abominable: haven't read all the scrollback to see if this was suggested, but have you tried deleting your configuration file? |
| 00:57.08 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=caleb@59.154.120.204) |
| 00:57.32 | blast007 | reinstalling the game rarely fixes any issue, as the config file is left intact during an uninstall |
| 00:57.53 | Happy_Alice | i would suggest to remove the system directory that is on the root |
| 00:59.42 | blast007 | ? |
| 01:00.11 | Think_Differentl | wipe the disk? |
| 01:00.33 | blast007 | Abominable: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Config_File |
| 01:00.46 | blast007 | either rename it, or delete it |
| 01:01.23 | Happy_Alice | isnt possible to have a log file from the client? |
| 01:01.35 | Happy_Alice | to see if there is an error ? |
| 01:02.11 | blast007 | well, sure, someone could debug WHY it isn't working right |
| 01:02.26 | blast007 | but that would require a client that is build with debugging symbols for any accurate information |
| 01:03.23 | spldart | Yeah.. I even said IB "delete your config file" |
| 01:03.24 | spldart | hehe |
| 01:03.39 | spldart | and the rename thing |
| 01:04.16 | blast007 | k |
| 01:04.21 | blast007 | hadn't read everything yet |
| 01:04.28 | blast007 | was shoveling snow ;) |
| 01:05.06 | spldart | is jelous. |
| 01:05.15 | spldart | we are getting light rain @ the moment |
| 01:05.24 | spldart | got some thunderstorms around and after lunch |
| 01:05.55 | blast007 | heh.. |
| 01:06.20 | blast007 | my fingers and still slightly numb, but typing helps ;) |
| 01:06.21 | spldart | I miss the white ish.. er stuff once in a while |
| 01:06.23 | me1 | It rained a lot here when it was 33-39, and as soon as it started to go below 32, no rain or snow. :( |
| 01:06.52 | spldart | It was 78 F here 5 hours ago.. 62 now. |
| 01:06.52 | Happy_Alice | it snowed too here |
| 01:07.00 | spldart | will be 39 tomorow morn |
| 01:07.12 | spldart | ~ksgr |
| 01:07.20 | spldart | ~weather ksgr |
| 01:07.24 | spldart | err something like that |
| 01:07.26 | spldart | ah |
| 01:08.04 | spldart | Wow.. dropping fast |
| 01:08.29 | blast007 | glad I don't have that much wind here ;D |
| 01:08.51 | blast007 | we have the same numbers, but the other way around |
| 01:09.32 | spldart | We still have alot of power lines that have to much slack in them everywhere.... They haven't finished fixing the power grid infrastructure after hurricane ike, and when the wind kicks up hard they slap together and our power goes off and on. |
| 01:09.51 | spldart | :( |
| 01:09.59 | blast007 | :/ |
| 01:10.16 | spldart | wind was much higher 2 to 3 hours ago.. |
| 01:10.20 | spldart | coulnd't even go online |
| 01:10.24 | blast007 | geez |
| 01:10.47 | blast007 | oh, and I just noticed that you have gusts.. was thinking that was the sustained speed |
| 01:11.10 | blast007 | we've got 13 here sustained (not 71 like I might have implied) ;) |
| 01:11.33 | spldart | I'm amazed how long it takes to get one's world back to normal after a direct hit from a hurricane... I'm hoping I'm back to normal a full quarter after the fact.... may take longer |
| 01:12.24 | Think_Differentl | ~weather KDCA |
| 01:12.45 | spldart | We were gusting to 50 mph a couple few hours ago... tree limbs down and stuf |
| 01:12.53 | blast007 | geez |
| 01:13.04 | spldart | Texas cold front |
| 01:16.06 | spldart | stupid inet... is irc proto smart enough to realize that some of the text didn't get to a client and then update the client once it gets through... say during severe packet loss for some odd reason? |
| 01:16.31 | blast007 | it's TCP, so it should |
| 01:18.21 | Abominable | blast007 yes |
| 01:18.30 | Gnurdux | in fact, because its TCP if you are in a masochistic mood you can IRC with telnet |
| 01:18.37 | Gnurdux | ive actually done that before |
| 01:18.49 | blast007 | Abominable: you tried, and it didn't work? |
| 01:18.54 | Abominable | Yeah |
| 01:19.07 | blast007 | Abominable: tried upgrading your video driver? |
| 01:19.17 | Abominable | Yeah |
| 01:19.21 | blast007 | fun |
| 01:19.22 | Abominable | It's fully upgraded. |
| 01:19.29 | Abominable | updated, everything |
| 01:19.49 | blast007 | according to Windows Update, or the actual hardware manufacturer page? |
| 01:20.06 | Abominable | the actual hardware pagew |
| 01:20.10 | Abominable | without the w |
| 01:20.11 | blast007 | hrm |
| 01:20.16 | blast007 | well, have fun with that ;) |
| 01:20.59 | Abominable | :P |
| 01:21.59 | spldart | Ahhwwww |
| 01:22.02 | spldart | hehe |
| 01:22.39 | spldart | BZFlag not fully vista supported? > ;~P |
| 01:23.17 | Gnurdux | lol imagine bzflag with the Games for Windows logo :D |
| 01:23.27 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 01:23.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 01:24.25 | spldart | lolz |
| 01:24.34 | spldart | Ah |
| 01:25.10 | spldart | JeffM... Your running or have expereince running bzflag client on vista right? |
| 01:25.20 | JeffM | sure |
| 01:25.34 | spldart | Abomidable is having issues with bzflag client going non responsive in vista.. Whereas it used to run |
| 01:25.47 | spldart | Blast and I are not sure why |
| 01:26.01 | JeffM | what does it do? |
| 01:26.10 | spldart | >Abominable |
| 01:26.12 | spldart | :) |
| 01:26.15 | JeffM | and what version? |
| 01:26.23 | Abominable | 2.0.10 |
| 01:26.30 | JeffM | what video card? |
| 01:26.41 | Abominable | nViddia |
| 01:26.45 | JeffM | what video card? |
| 01:26.47 | Abominable | It worked fine the other day |
| 01:26.48 | spldart | Ah... latest card drivers and updated vista |
| 01:26.53 | JeffM | what did you change? |
| 01:26.58 | JeffM | if it worked yesterday |
| 01:27.00 | spldart | Did you do the deleted.... |
| 01:27.01 | spldart | lol |
| 01:27.06 | spldart | Echo... |
| 01:27.17 | Abominable | I changed nothing |
| 01:27.22 | spldart | Ddi yoiy delelte the config file abom? |
| 01:27.23 | JeffM | bzflag does not have a way to edit it's own code, so something had to change |
| 01:27.26 | spldart | or rename it |
| 01:27.27 | Abominable | No. |
| 01:27.28 | JeffM | yeah blow out the config |
| 01:27.33 | JeffM | did you do any windows updates? |
| 01:27.38 | JeffM | install any new software? |
| 01:27.39 | Abominable | I unisntalled and reinstalled. |
| 01:27.44 | JeffM | that is not the same thing |
| 01:27.47 | JeffM | that dosn't change anything |
| 01:27.50 | Abominable | iTunes |
| 01:27.56 | JeffM | remove your my bzflag files dir |
| 01:28.00 | JeffM | in your documents dir |
| 01:28.17 | spldart | ooOOoo... |
| 01:28.25 | JeffM | installing does not change the config |
| 01:28.32 | JeffM | and I doubt your install is courupted |
| 01:28.36 | JeffM | nothing writes to it |
| 01:29.09 | JeffM | bzflag follows the vista rules in that it only writes files inside your profile dir, not the install dir |
| 01:29.15 | spldart | itunes... that's apples stuff isn't it... I've had issues with apple quicktime and my nvidia drivers. galore... But I could be totally off base |
| 01:29.28 | JeffM | spldart, focus on one thing at a time |
| 01:29.32 | spldart | sry |
| 01:29.35 | JeffM | Abominable, blow out your config dir |
| 01:29.39 | JeffM | and tell me what happens |
| 01:31.20 | Abominable | JeffM: Still goes NR |
| 01:31.26 | JeffM | so what happens? |
| 01:31.30 | JeffM | you go NR in game? |
| 01:31.52 | JeffM | or can you not use the menus when it starts? |
| 01:31.55 | JeffM | or what? |
| 01:32.00 | Abominable | I click bzflag, as soon as it opens, before the menu can appear it goes nr |
| 01:32.08 | JeffM | what do you mean by "NR" |
| 01:32.13 | JeffM | the bzflag network NR? |
| 01:32.17 | JeffM | or the app does something |
| 01:32.22 | spldart | no menus |
| 01:32.23 | JeffM | does it gray out? |
| 01:32.27 | spldart | IIRC |
| 01:32.32 | JeffM | we don't have menus |
| 01:32.36 | JeffM | not windows menus |
| 01:32.40 | spldart | no |
| 01:32.44 | Abominable | Yeah, program non responsive |
| 01:32.49 | JeffM | ok |
| 01:32.58 | Abominable | Like the "find server" menu |
| 01:33.02 | Abominable | the bzflag game menu |
| 01:33.03 | JeffM | have you run any windows updates recently |
| 01:33.14 | Abominable | One about a week back |
| 01:33.18 | Abominable | but I played afterwards. |
| 01:33.34 | JeffM | hmmmm |
| 01:33.45 | JeffM | do you have any firewall or internet protection software installed? |
| 01:33.45 | Abominable | It's strange, I don't know what could have happened. |
| 01:33.52 | JeffM | or are you not on a network or behind a proxy? |
| 01:34.00 | Abominable | Yeah, but they are all allowing everything related to bzflag. |
| 01:34.11 | spldart | He can play on another pc on same lan |
| 01:34.14 | JeffM | it's possible it's the MOTD |
| 01:34.32 | JeffM | has any of that protection software been updated or changed, by ANYONE? |
| 01:34.51 | Abominable | No |
| 01:34.59 | JeffM | are you the only user of this computer? |
| 01:35.04 | Abominable | Yes |
| 01:35.38 | Abominable | all my system resources are fine as well. |
| 01:35.44 | JeffM | whatever that means |
| 01:35.55 | JeffM | let me find the MOTD disable command |
| 01:36.30 | Abominable | CPU usage and physical memory |
| 01:36.59 | JeffM | in general those are never the issue |
| 01:37.09 | JeffM | did it remake a config dir for you? |
| 01:38.36 | Abominable | Yes |
| 01:38.54 | JeffM | open it up and find the bzflag config file |
| 01:39.00 | JeffM | open that in a text editor |
| 01:39.10 | JeffM | add set disableMOTD 1 to the file |
| 01:39.12 | JeffM | and save it |
| 01:39.15 | JeffM | then run again |
| 01:40.47 | Abominable | Nope, but it flickered a few times like it wanted to start, then went NR before displaying anything. |
| 01:41.13 | JeffM | what model video card do you have? |
| 01:45.34 | spldart | ... :-] ..?. |
| 01:45.41 | Abominable | NVIDIA geforce go 7200 |
| 01:45.43 | spldart | Did you crash abomi? |
| 01:45.45 | spldart | Ah |
| 01:45.46 | Abominable | sorry for the delay |
| 01:45.52 | spldart | :) |
| 01:49.40 | spldart | .... 'imagines someone is ordering a perfect cali pizza at the moment... or maybe chinese takeout.' |
| 01:49.53 | spldart | Sry |
| 01:53.08 | JeffM | oh it is a laptop |
| 01:53.11 | JeffM | made by who? |
| 01:54.56 | Abominable | HP |
| 02:14.51 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 02:20.04 | spldart | breaks out the bug spray.................. for the crickets... ;) |
| 02:33.00 | *** join/#bzflag MindstormsKid (n=chatzill@adsl-074-183-055-029.sip.cha.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:42.07 | *** part/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
| 02:43.52 | JeffM | sorry Abominable got called away for real work |
| 02:44.10 | JeffM | well I'd see if they have newer video drivers for your laptop but other then that, I'm not sure |
| 02:44.13 | Abominable | No problem |
| 02:44.23 | Abominable | Yeah I installed them |
| 02:44.29 | JeffM | the fact that it used to work bothers me |
| 02:44.34 | JeffM | 'that means that it's not our code |
| 02:44.50 | Abominable | Yeah, I'm not blaming bzflag or anything |
| 02:44.56 | Abominable | just not sure what caused it |
| 02:45.03 | JeffM | I know, but it means I have less clue what to look for :) |
| 02:45.14 | JeffM | as I know the bzflag code better then I know your system |
| 02:45.17 | MindstormsKid | Abominable: what? |
| 02:45.54 | JeffM | my gut says it's one of 2 things, some other app is trying to do something to our process as we load |
| 02:46.05 | JeffM | or something in the video subsystem is freaking out |
| 02:46.14 | MindstormsKid | my video card went boom and i had to get my motherboard replaced |
| 02:46.17 | JeffM | have you tried to run it as an administrator |
| 02:46.22 | Abominable | I'll do a system restore and see what happens. |
| 02:46.37 | Abominable | Good idea :P |
| 02:47.11 | Abominable | Didn't work |
| 02:47.57 | JeffM | is UAC on? |
| 02:48.38 | Abominable | UAC? |
| 02:48.51 | Think_Differentl | user account control |
| 02:49.02 | Abominable | yeah |
| 02:49.43 | JeffM | I don't think it will help, but you could try to turn it off |
| 02:53.00 | JeffM | I run vista myself, so I know that at least 3.0. runs |
| 02:53.14 | JeffM | I don't think I've ever tried the .10 bins, but if it worked for you I'm sure it's fine |
| 02:53.28 | JeffM | we arn't a very complex app |
| 02:53.55 | JeffM | I mean I could try to build you a version with VC2005 and imbeded manifest, but if that was the issue you'd have a different error |
| 03:02.15 | Abominable | I'll systemrestore, check throug everything, see what's different. |
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| 03:09.44 | JeffM | blast007, do you still build on windows sometimes? |
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| 04:36.11 | JeffM2501 | who here builds on windows? |
| 04:36.39 | blast007 | I do |
| 04:36.52 | JeffM2501 | will you freak if I upgrade trunk to 2008? |
| 04:37.13 | blast007 | no |
| 04:37.16 | JeffM2501 | whoot |
| 04:37.23 | blast007 | just means I have to (*gasp*) download 2008 EE |
| 04:37.29 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 04:37.44 | blast007 | I have the full versions of 2003 and 2005 on here ;) |
| 04:38.42 | JeffM2501 | we are upgrading to 2008 at work |
| 04:39.15 | blast007 | yeah, doesn't bother me too much. I don't build that often anyway. |
| 04:39.20 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 04:42.19 | JeffM2501 | with EE in the mix I can't see anyone complaining too much |
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| 06:13.24 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19024 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/plugin_utils/plugin_utils.h: add a char version of compare_nocase |
| 06:37.41 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19025 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/lua/ (9 files): |
| 06:37.41 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: fix errors and warnings in lua plug-in |
| 06:37.41 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: link to lua language lib |
| 06:37.41 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: rename output lib/plug-in to bzlua so that it does not have the same name as lua.lib that is used for the actual lua language. |
| 06:37.41 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: make it build on windows. |
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| 06:43.06 | JeffM_ | is so redoing the MSVC dirs one of these days |
| 06:55.53 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19026 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/ (MSVC/ Makefile.am): remove plugins/MSVC since the plugins are done as part of fullbuild |
| 07:12.05 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19027 10/trunk/bzflag/ (81 files in 44 dirs): |
| 07:12.05 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: start the upgrade to VC9 (Visual Studio 2008) |
| 07:12.05 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: remove the VC80 dir in plugin_utils |
| 07:12.05 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: upgrade all project files to vc9 |
| 07:18.30 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19028 10/trunk/bzflag/src/other/freetype/builds/win32/visualc/ (freetype_vc8.vcproj freetype_vc9.vcproj): make the vc9 project be the default, not the vc8 one |
| 07:19.07 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19029 10/trunk/bzflag/src/other/freetype/builds/win32/visualc/freetype.sln: update sln to vc9 |
| 07:22.36 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19030 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/configure.ac: remove MSVC and VC8 dirs. |
| 07:28.52 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19031 10/trunk/bzflag/ (54 files in 5 dirs): rename VC8 dir to simply be "build" dir since we arn't really going to maintain more then one vc build system now that VC is free. |
| 07:31.19 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19032 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/plugin_utils/ (VC8/ plugin_utils.sln plugin_utils.vcproj): remove vc8 dir and just keep the build in the root like other plugins |
| 07:32.39 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19033 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/ (3 files in 3 dirs): update sln files to vc9 for individual builds |
| 07:32.51 | JeffM_ | thinks that is enough for one night |
| 07:33.08 | blast007 | ;) |
| 07:33.24 | JeffM_ | a lot of the plugins still need the .sln files updated |
| 07:33.29 | JeffM_ | but the projects are done |
| 07:33.33 | JeffM_ | so fullbuild works |
| 07:34.01 | JeffM_ | and it should be easier to upgrade next time, no more VC# dirs |
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| 08:07.12 | BulletCatcher | Ugh. Once a checkout tree has been updated using Subversion 1.5, you can't go back to 1.4 again. |
| 09:43.04 | a_meteorite | planned obsolescence! |
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| 09:54.35 | javawizard2539 | BulletCatcher: iirc they had a rather prominent note on that somewhere in the install process... |
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| 13:21.53 | Nukeproofsuite | is jbonic here? |
| 13:37.23 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r19034 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/lua/Makefile.am: |
| 13:37.23 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: lua plugin: use standard library name, Fix makefile sources |
| 13:37.23 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: Autogen warns about the use of non-standard library names. |
| 13:37.23 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: Source names need to match the build target name. |
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| 14:59.29 | joevano | Manu, JBdiGriz, brlcad, Thumper_, blast007 : I win... #tanks4code is now empty :P |
| 15:00.07 | joevano | actually I won 10 days ago, but just noticed |
| 15:04.01 | Manu | dang |
| 15:04.52 | Manu | joevano: because the server :-p |
| 15:05.28 | joevano | yeah, yeah... ;) |
| 15:05.55 | Manu | joevano: I'm there again :/ |
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| 17:47.57 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19035 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/lua/Makefile.am: * renamed libbzlua to libbzfslua (I already have a libbzlua) |
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| 17:48.41 | JeffM | trepan, ok, so bzfslua? |
| 17:48.52 | JeffM | may as well make em constent :) |
| 17:51.15 | CIA-72 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r19036 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/lua/ (Makefile.am bzfslua.def bzlua.def lua.sln lua.vcproj): * libbzlua -> libbzfslua (for the windows folks) |
| 17:53.34 | trepan | JeffM: yup, bzfslua |
| 17:54.07 | JeffM | cool you changed the project too, then I got nothin to do :) |
| 17:54.19 | JeffM | isn't it nice that it's XML and like readable |
| 17:54.21 | trepan | could test it ... that I can't do :) |
| 17:54.59 | trepan | heh, and OS/vendor locked ... |
| 17:55.21 | trepan | but certainly better than binary |
| 17:55.55 | JeffM | if it was C# you could run it in monobuild :) |
| 18:03.32 | trepan | fwiw, libbzlua is the name i'm using for the LuaUser/LuaWorld bzflag/lua interface |
| 18:05.12 | trepan | oops, libBzLua -- but it's all the same in winny world ;-) |
| 18:05.32 | Winny | blinks |
| 18:07.45 | jorgenpt | Serverside plugins in lua? |
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| 18:09.59 | JeffM | I guess |
| 18:10.28 | JeffM | still a lot of warnings to fix |
| 18:11.54 | JeffM | there was one I didn't know how to fix, where an unsigned int is being cast to a void* |
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| 18:14.31 | javawizard2539 | what exactly does a void*do? |
| 18:14.46 | javawizard2539 | (I'm still way new to c++ and in Java, void means nothing) |
| 18:17.09 | brlcad | so *that's* why it was so quiet in here.. |
| 18:17.14 | brlcad | left his irssi on scrollback |
| 18:17.17 | Winny | I believe a void is a function that returns no data |
| 18:18.05 | brlcad | Winny: void != void* |
| 18:18.11 | Winny | oh didn't see the * |
| 18:19.16 | Winny | goes back to webpage mockup |
| 18:25.18 | brlcad | http://www.osbr.ca/ojs/index.php/osbr/article/view/800/771 |
| 18:25.32 | brlcad | notes the familiar text of the introductory paragraph |
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| 18:35.30 | delusional | yummy, /me like to read commits at lunch |
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| 18:48.54 | delusional | fourty two... new BZ website off to a rolling start http://www.zaphod.fr/zaphod.fr/about_zaphod.html |
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| 18:54.31 | Winny | my lord it's all images |
| 18:54.34 | Winny | even the text... |
| 18:56.20 | BulletCatcher | javawizard2539: The void* type is a generic pointer into memory. It is easily abused, but is properly used as the type of a variable that may point to different functions that return different types. |
| 18:57.49 | javawizard2539 | Winny: yeah, the only use of void in java is to declare that a function doesn't return anything, which is why i was confused |
| 18:58.17 | javawizard2539 | BulletCatcher: so pointers can reference functions as well as variables? |
| 18:58.21 | javawizard2539 | That seems to make sense |
| 18:58.34 | JeffM | function pointers :) |
| 18:58.38 | JeffM | it's how you do callbacks in C |
| 18:59.07 | BulletCatcher | In C/C++ a pointer is just a memory address. It is up to the program to use it either as code or data. |
| 18:59.11 | JeffM | the problem I have is lua seems to use it as a generic data size, but we are shoving in an unsigned int, not an unsigned int* |
| 18:59.17 | JeffM | so I get size warnings |
| 18:59.29 | JeffM | void* != unsigned int |
| 19:00.28 | javawizard2539 | JeffM: Sounds a ton easier than Java's method, which is to create an entirely new class that has just one method which contains the callback |
| 19:00.51 | JeffM | javawizard2539, well sure, many things are better then Java's methods :) |
| 19:01.15 | javawizard2539 | seems to be losing his battle for java |
| 19:01.17 | JeffM | they are prety easy in C# too |
| 19:01.17 | javawizard2539 | :)\ |
| 19:01.19 | javawizard2539 | :) |
| 19:01.47 | JeffM | java was a good idea, but it was a gen 1 idea. There are better more modern systems that take the good stuff java had, and made it better |
| 19:02.30 | JeffM | it happens to all languages |
| 19:02.35 | javawizard2539 | yeah |
| 19:02.40 | JeffM | just depends on how much it can adapt |
| 19:02.48 | javawizard2539 | although there are still some things I like better about java then about c++ |
| 19:02.59 | JeffM | and since it was owned by sun I fear that has liminted it in how it could evolve |
| 19:03.11 | javawizard2539 | What do you mean? |
| 19:03.19 | javawizard2539 | like that it's not an open-source project itself? |
| 19:03.22 | JeffM | a lot of people wanted to change it a lot, but could not |
| 19:03.34 | JeffM | its' not an open standard like C or C++ |
| 19:03.44 | javawizard2539 | yeah |
| 19:03.51 | JeffM | MS wanted to add stuff to java, but could not due to sun's leagal reasons |
| 19:03.57 | JeffM | so they went and made it into C# |
| 19:04.13 | JeffM | wherein stuff like C and C++ has a board that decides where it should go |
| 19:04.37 | JeffM | sun holding the language close to the chest has kept it in the past I feel |
| 19:04.57 | javawizard2539 | agrees |
| 19:05.23 | javawizard2539 | They've just started adding basic stuff like window transparency, and tray icon support |
| 19:05.32 | javawizard2539 | Not to mention that the swing windows vista look and feel hasn't been near convincing for me |
| 19:05.41 | JeffM | thinks that should not be part of the language |
| 19:05.49 | javawizard2539 | Window support? |
| 19:05.51 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:05.52 | javawizard2539 | why? |
| 19:05.58 | JeffM | that should be part of your framework |
| 19:06.04 | JeffM | not the core language |
| 19:06.13 | JeffM | because window stuff will always change |
| 19:06.30 | JeffM | and if you burn stuff like that into your language you are stuck with the ideas that existed when you wrote it |
| 19:06.45 | JeffM | in C# all the window stuff is done by the .net framework |
| 19:06.47 | JeffM | not the langauge |
| 19:07.10 | JeffM | and the framework is implemented in a native way on each platform |
| 19:07.17 | javawizard2539 | but then again, if it's included, then you don't have to write new code to make it run on a new platform |
| 19:07.19 | javawizard2539 | oh, I see what you're saying |
| 19:07.21 | JeffM | so you don't have to change the core language to pick up "vistaness" |
| 19:07.33 | JeffM | on vista you get vista, on linux you get GTKness |
| 19:07.49 | javawizard2539 | Which is essentially what SWT does |
| 19:07.53 | BulletCatcher | modular design FTW |
| 19:07.55 | BulletCatcher | The risk of using void* function pointers in C or C++ is that the compiler cannot enforce type consistency. I assume that is not a problem with Java callbacks. |
| 19:07.56 | javawizard2539 | and swt isn't part of Java |
| 19:07.59 | javawizard2539 | I'm seeing that now |
| 19:08.03 | JeffM | at some point someone HAS to write code for the platform |
| 19:08.08 | javawizard2539 | BulletCatcher: correct |
| 19:08.10 | JeffM | lets say windows 7 has some cool stuff |
| 19:08.26 | JeffM | in .net, all that has to be done is the framework on windows 7 be updated |
| 19:08.33 | JeffM | in java, the JAVA system has to be updated |
| 19:08.38 | JeffM | and that's harder |
| 19:08.41 | javawizard2539 | BulletCatcher: your class implements an interface, which enforces the given method to be present |
| 19:08.49 | javawizard2539 | JeffM: what's the difference? |
| 19:08.49 | Chestal | the Java philosopy has always been to be its own platform, not adapt well to the platforms it runs on |
| 19:08.57 | JeffM | in the .net case, the C#, VB, etc... language stuff dosn't change at all |
| 19:09.00 | javawizard2539 | Updating java's standard library vs someone else's library |
| 19:09.17 | JeffM | javawizard2539, cus you do it once for every .net language :) |
| 19:09.22 | JeffM | on just the platform that needs it |
| 19:09.42 | JeffM | and you don't touch anything that is specific to the language |
| 19:10.02 | JeffM | and that lib isn't owned by sun :) |
| 19:10.14 | javawizard2539 | agrees on the last one |
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| 19:10.43 | javawizard2539 | but the "on just the platform that needs it" sounds like developers would then have to write their application to run on multiple platforms, as you currently have to do in C++ |
| 19:10.53 | JeffM | javawizard2539, no the lib devs do |
| 19:10.56 | JeffM | the app devs don't change anything |
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| 19:11.09 | JeffM | run your app with the new platform libs and it picks up the new features |
| 19:11.10 | javawizard2539 | What about bzflag? |
| 19:11.15 | JeffM | bzflag is not a .net app |
| 19:11.25 | javawizard2539 | there's like a ton of code that only compiles for one platform |
| 19:11.31 | JeffM | yeah and it's a mess |
| 19:11.38 | JeffM | I would love it to be a .net app |
| 19:11.40 | javawizard2539 | Right, but my point is, let's say I were to re-write bzflag in java, I wouldn't have to do any of that |
| 19:11.47 | javawizard2539 | So what exactly is a .net app? |
| 19:12.10 | JeffM | an app that is writen in amanaged language that links to the .net runtimes |
| 19:12.24 | JeffM | it's simiar to the java VM concept |
| 19:12.31 | JeffM | just over more then one langauge |
| 19:12.36 | javawizard2539 | So they provide a cross-platform library? |
| 19:12.36 | JeffM | with out a lot of java suck |
| 19:12.48 | JeffM | the app you get is a cross platform bytecode thing |
| 19:12.55 | JeffM | then the runtimes run it |
| 19:12.59 | javawizard2539 | ok, that sounds more like java's standard library |
| 19:13.02 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:13.08 | JeffM | they are similar like I said |
| 19:13.10 | javawizard2539 | I'm starting to like C++ |
| 19:13.14 | javawizard2539 | yeah |
| 19:13.30 | JeffM | C# was started as J++2.0 |
| 19:13.42 | javawizard2539 | ooh, I bet sun had a fit over that |
| 19:13.53 | JeffM | when MS found out that they could not make J++2, they forked basicly |
| 19:13.57 | JeffM | sun did |
| 19:14.08 | JeffM | and caused MS to make a java killer |
| 19:14.29 | JeffM | so since they didn't have to worry about java compatability, they threw out all the java suck |
| 19:14.37 | JeffM | and pulled in some of the good stuff from C and C++ |
| 19:14.42 | JeffM | and made C# |
| 19:14.58 | JeffM | and made it an open standard |
| 19:15.14 | JeffM | and now we have mono, that implements it on other platforms |
| 19:15.18 | Chestal | at least a sucky standard :-) |
| 19:15.43 | Chestal | it is still all very much an MS only thing |
| 19:15.44 | JeffM | have you use it Chestal ? |
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| 19:15.56 | Chestal | not open as comapred to C or C++ standards |
| 19:15.56 | JeffM | I've had very good luck using mono |
| 19:16.05 | JeffM | sure MS is a big part of it |
| 19:16.09 | JeffM | but it friggin works |
| 19:16.09 | javawizard2539 | What about automatic gc? |
| 19:16.13 | Chestal | of course if it was a regular ISO thing, they could not move as fast as they do |
| 19:16.14 | JeffM | it has it |
| 19:16.27 | javawizard2539 | c# |
| 19:16.29 | javawizard2539 | ? |
| 19:16.33 | JeffM | yes |
| 19:16.35 | javawizard2539 | what about c++? |
| 19:16.35 | JeffM | no pointers |
| 19:16.40 | Chestal | but for my taste they are throwing too much into C# now |
| 19:16.41 | JeffM | managed C++ has GC |
| 19:16.43 | JeffM | but it sucks |
| 19:16.52 | JeffM | Chestal, into the language or .net? |
| 19:16.53 | Chestal | it's getting a very complex language |
| 19:17.06 | JeffM | most of what it does is in the .net framework |
| 19:17.22 | JeffM | techincaly you don't have to use the .net framework |
| 19:17.32 | JeffM | calls GL directly from C# |
| 19:18.10 | JeffM | it's not the best languages for all things |
| 19:18.21 | JeffM | it's a very cool tool to have as an option tho |
| 19:18.30 | JeffM | UI is very easy in .net |
| 19:18.42 | JeffM | and cross plat stuff is easy too |
| 19:18.44 | Chestal | in the end all languages suck anyway (except for Lisp of course ;-) |
| 19:19.04 | JeffM | I can take the .exe built from VC, copy it to linux and run it |
| 19:19.11 | JeffM | thru mono of course |
| 19:19.50 | javawizard2539 | Actually, I have one question related to bzflag and vc |
| 19:19.54 | JeffM | k |
| 19:19.59 | javawizard2539 | (if I'm asking too many, feel free to tell me to stop) |
| 19:20.08 | javawizard2539 | How do you compile stuff down to a .dll? |
| 19:20.18 | javawizard2539 | I can't for the life of me figure it out, and I want to try writing a bzflag plugin |
| 19:20.21 | Winny | not sure if you can in express edition |
| 19:20.23 | JeffM | make the project target be a dll instead of an exe |
| 19:20.28 | JeffM | Winny, sure you can |
| 19:20.34 | JeffM | eveyr plugin is a DLL :) |
| 19:20.37 | Winny | hmm.. I hear somewhere you can't |
| 19:20.43 | Winny | must be my brain decieving me |
| 19:20.45 | javawizard2539 | Winny: that's what I heard |
| 19:20.45 | Winny | as usual |
| 19:20.46 | JeffM | javawizard2539, copy the sample project |
| 19:20.49 | JeffM | rename it |
| 19:20.58 | JeffM | do you have a project? |
| 19:21.05 | JeffM | or just some C files? |
| 19:21.20 | javawizard2539 | Nothing right now |
| 19:21.26 | JeffM | bzflag builds fine on EE, and bzflag builds dlls |
| 19:21.27 | javawizard2539 | I didn't know there was a sample one, stupid me :) |
| 19:21.30 | javawizard2539 | I'll go copy it |
| 19:21.35 | JeffM | yeah, you copy it, rename it |
| 19:21.57 | JeffM | and do a search and replace on the text in files and replace SAMPLE_PLUGIN with your name |
| 19:21.58 | JeffM | that's it |
| 19:22.05 | JeffM | the project files are just text (XML) |
| 19:22.24 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 19:22.36 | javawizard2539 | n/me goes to copy it... |
| 19:22.41 | javawizard2539 | ick |
| 19:22.46 | javawizard2539 | I always do that |
| 19:22.52 | JeffM | think of the project as the makefile |
| 19:24.57 | javawizard2539 | So kind of like Ant buildfiles in java, but for c++? |
| 19:25.08 | javawizard2539 | Actually, probably also a bit more like Eclipse projects |
| 19:25.27 | JeffM | the vcproj files are basicly makefiles |
| 19:25.30 | JeffM | with some other stuff |
| 19:25.39 | JeffM | they have all the files that are used, and the compiler options |
| 19:25.53 | JeffM | so they include build target, input libs, etc.. |
| 19:26.09 | JeffM | the .sln file is the master file that links multiple project files |
| 19:26.31 | JeffM | and defines any dependencies between them |
| 19:26.51 | JeffM | so like we have a project file that builds our common.lib |
| 19:27.00 | JeffM | and a project file that builds bzfs.exe |
| 19:27.20 | JeffM | then the sln file includes both and has the dependency that bzfs.exe has on common.lib |
| 19:27.38 | JeffM | so it knows that it has to build common before it can link bzfs |
| 19:31.10 | JeffM | javawizard2539, if you are using anything in trunk, note that it's all been updated to VC 2008 |
| 19:31.18 | JeffM | foods |
| 19:31.27 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 19:31.35 | javawizard2539 | I'm using vc7.1 |
| 19:31.37 | javawizard2539 | I'll update |
| 19:32.00 | javawizard2539 | And thanks for helping me, this is making sense now |
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| 19:50.55 | short_circuit | exit |
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| 19:56.59 | javawizard2539 | goes to his flute lesson |
| 19:57.59 | spldart | ooOOoo.. One of my kids just started the flute :) |
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| 19:59.17 | javawizard2539 | erg, I hate it when my connection gets dropped |
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| 20:13.31 | spldart | I just took measures to make my AP more solid.. I'm hoping less 'has quit' s and 'has joined' under one of my alternate names. |
| 20:14.06 | joevano | spldart: did you change it to "wired" :P |
| 20:14.17 | spldart | lol |
| 20:14.33 | joevano | it does wonders for stability ;) |
| 20:14.38 | spldart | nah. a combination of software and hardware changes though.... |
| 20:14.58 | spldart | I do like the stability of wired on a nice fast switch |
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| 21:01.52 | JeffM | hmmm if javawizard is using 2.0.x he should stick with 7.1 |
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