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| 01:47.12 | Josh45 | Hello all |
| 01:47.35 | Josh45 | I try to compile bzflag 2.0.10 on Mac OS X tiger, but I get libtoolize errors. :( |
| 01:47.42 | Josh45 | http://pastie.org/332942 |
| 01:48.02 | Josh45 | I have Xcode and MacPorts btw :| |
| 01:51.02 | blast007 | fun |
| 01:51.27 | Josh45 | hrmf |
| 01:51.30 | Josh45 | not much fun for me ^^ |
| 01:51.35 | blast007 | I don't have a mac though, unfortunately |
| 01:51.47 | Josh45 | :( |
| 01:52.06 | tsyko_not_here | I do, but I'm running lepoard, and don't usally run the complie version |
| 01:52.11 | tsyko_not_here | :( |
| 01:52.11 | blast007 | a couple of the devs do |
| 01:52.39 | Josh45 | Well, I looked around |
| 01:52.50 | Josh45 | and it said Mac OS X came with glibtoolize only |
| 01:53.33 | Josh45 | http://lists.apple.com/archives/Xcode-users/2004/May/msg00243.html |
| 01:53.56 | blast007 | tiger is 10.4, correct? |
| 01:54.13 | Josh45 | Yes |
| 01:54.22 | Josh45 | I may need to modify the autogen.sh by hand then? |
| 01:54.29 | blast007 | I used to build 2.0.x and trunk code on 10.4 |
| 01:54.40 | blast007 | but I didn't do the initial setup for that system |
| 01:54.59 | blast007 | bought it from another developer, who had the main mac developer help set it up, iirc ;) |
| 01:55.15 | Josh45 | :| |
| 01:55.16 | blast007 | wonders if brlcad is around |
| 01:55.19 | Josh45 | lol |
| 02:00.08 | blast007 | Josh45: you could try running 'ln -s /usr/bin/glibtoolize /usr/bin/libtoolize' as root/admin |
| 02:00.42 | blast007 | oh, nvm |
| 02:00.52 | blast007 | guess you already tried that |
| 02:00.59 | Josh45 | Yup |
| 02:01.09 | Josh45 | I'm looking at the autogen.sh file |
| 02:01.14 | Josh45 | it may also be an autoreconf problemo |
| 02:02.09 | blast007 | you could also try getting the 2.0.12 source code |
| 02:02.27 | blast007 | is there a reason you're needing to build a client? binary version not working? |
| 02:02.48 | Josh45 | I chose it as a school project, naturally ;) |
| 02:02.54 | blast007 | ah |
| 02:03.00 | Josh45 | 2.0.12 was only Linux I thought? :| |
| 02:03.04 | blast007 | no |
| 02:03.16 | blast007 | it was there to fix a linux build system problem mainly |
| 02:03.17 | Josh45 | and wouldn't it still have dependencies on libtoolize? |
| 02:03.20 | blast007 | but it's not "linux only" |
| 02:03.23 | Josh45 | I see |
| 02:03.26 | blast007 | maybe |
| 02:03.31 | blast007 | but worth trying anyway |
| 02:03.44 | blast007 | could also try the 2.99.x version from SVN trunk |
| 02:03.58 | Josh45 | Do they really update the autogen.sh so much? :P |
| 02:04.06 | Josh45 | That it doesn't look for libtoolize to build? |
| 02:04.57 | blast007 | shrugs |
| 02:05.02 | blast007 | I run Windows ;) |
| 02:05.23 | blast007 | well, and a bit of linux |
| 02:05.32 | blast007 | (used to run a mac until it died) |
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| 02:11.54 | Josh45 | hmm |
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| 02:16.06 | Josh45 | well |
| 02:16.12 | Josh45 | I'm trying to fetch some dependencies first |
| 02:16.15 | Josh45 | and then try build again |
| 02:16.20 | Josh45 | but it seems to be stalled on |
| 02:16.21 | Josh45 | ---> Fetching c-ares |
| 02:16.21 | Josh45 | ---> Attempting to fetch c-ares-1.5.3.tar.gz from http://c-ares.haxx.se/ |
| 02:16.29 | Josh45 | using Mac Ports |
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| 02:23.07 | Gabe_G23 | Josh45: I believe their site is down. ;) |
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| 02:27.20 | Danji | . |
| 02:30.22 | Josh45 | Thanks Gabe_G23 |
| 02:30.32 | Josh45 | I found a different copy |
| 02:30.36 | Josh45 | stuck it in the distfiles |
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| 04:01.12 | Guest687 | g |
| 04:01.54 | Guest687 | is 2.0.12 avaible for mac > |
| 04:02.52 | blast007 | not a binary build, but source is available for all operating systems. It wasn't any additional features though, at least nothing notable enough for a binary release for windows or mac |
| 04:02.54 | Guest687 | i |
| 04:03.03 | Guest687 | ok ty |
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| 04:03.36 | Think_Differentl | .12 was just a linux fix, right? |
| 04:08.52 | blast007 | yeah |
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| 05:11.54 | brlcad | Josh45: you shouldn't need to modify autogen.sh |
| 05:12.38 | brlcad | run it with the verbose flag to see why exactly libtoolize is failing |
| 05:13.22 | brlcad | more than likely, it's either a problem some other problem in the build system or a problem with your autotools instaallation |
| 05:15.03 | brlcad | macs have a non-standard autotools install to start with, hence the warning (which apple is already aware of, addressed it partially with 10.5) |
| 05:15.21 | brlcad | autoreconf should not be failing, that implies some other problem (obviously) |
| 05:15.41 | brlcad | bought a gorgeous new couch |
| 05:16.00 | Winny | gonna keep it wrapped in plastic |
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| 05:44.40 | Josh45 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:44.51 | brlcad | ~ask |
| 05:44.52 | ibot | [ask] Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 05:45.09 | Josh45 | I intended to ask whether you were here or not :P |
| 05:45.19 | brlcad | then no, I am not here |
| 05:45.24 | Josh45 | I see |
| 05:47.18 | Josh45 | Warning: libtoolize does not appear to be available. This means that |
| 05:47.19 | Josh45 | autoreconf cannot be used. |
| 05:48.57 | Josh45 | brlcad: It now looks for /usr/share/libtool, which it cannot find. |
| 05:49.44 | Josh45 | (after linking glibtoolize to it) |
| 05:49.56 | Josh45 | I am using Mac Ports to retrieve libtool |
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| 07:27.01 | brlcad | Josh45: that message doesn't mean what you think it means, and you looking for 'libtool' isn't right (it |
| 07:27.06 | brlcad | it'd be libtoolize) |
| 07:27.35 | brlcad | run it in verbose mode, that will say the actual issue |
| 07:29.44 | brlcad | from your earlier posting, autogen.sh did absolutely everything right before and after you ran sudo ln -s .. it's failing for a reason that isn't stated in the output (hence --verbose) |
| 07:31.27 | Josh45 | hmm |
| 07:31.28 | Josh45 | two seconds |
| 07:31.53 | blast007 | one thousand one, one thousand two... |
| 07:31.53 | blast007 | grins ;) |
| 07:32.08 | Josh45 | haha :P |
| 07:32.55 | Josh45 | aww what |
| 07:33.02 | Josh45 | Mac Ports |
| 07:33.07 | Josh45 | just went from Automake 1.6 |
| 07:33.09 | Josh45 | to 1.1 |
| 07:34.44 | Josh45 | it'll be more than two seconds for sure now |
| 07:35.00 | Josh45 | hmm |
| 07:35.03 | Josh45 | why is the latest version |
| 07:35.05 | Josh45 | in Mac ports |
| 07:35.08 | Josh45 | automake 1.1 |
| 07:36.24 | brlcad | i highly doubt that |
| 07:36.25 | Josh45 | brlcad: You could technically run ./autogen.sh on another system, and then move that to Mac OS X and then compile? |
| 07:36.32 | Josh45 | it was :| |
| 07:36.37 | brlcad | i highly doubt that |
| 07:37.12 | brlcad | more likely a printing error or something else is wrong with your installation |
| 07:37.25 | brlcad | 1.10 is probably the case |
| 07:37.53 | brlcad | 1.10 is not 1.1 |
| 07:38.06 | Josh45 | http://pastie.org/333038 |
| 07:38.13 | Josh45 | yeah, 1.1.0 |
| 07:38.15 | Josh45 | 1.10* |
| 07:38.32 | Josh45 | which is still outdated |
| 07:38.39 | Josh45 | well |
| 07:38.45 | Josh45 | after fetching libtool |
| 07:38.47 | brlcad | what makes you surmise that? |
| 07:38.51 | Josh45 | it finally ran ./autogen.sh |
| 07:39.45 | Josh45 | compiling on Mac is somewhat slow :| |
| 07:39.52 | brlcad | you really are making a LOT of invalid assumptions .. you shouldn't assume you understand as much as you think you do |
| 07:39.54 | Josh45 | on a PPC 1.33 GHz |
| 07:39.57 | blast007 | only if your mac is slow |
| 07:40.09 | Josh45 | well |
| 07:40.12 | brlcad | and slow is relative |
| 07:40.22 | Josh45 | ./autogen.sh refused to run |
| 07:40.27 | brlcad | no ti didn't |
| 07:40.30 | brlcad | it ran just fine |
| 07:40.34 | brlcad | told you a message |
| 07:40.34 | Josh45 | when 1.10.2_0 |
| 07:40.36 | Josh45 | was installed |
| 07:40.43 | Josh45 | then I uninstalled |
| 07:40.46 | Josh45 | ran again |
| 07:40.46 | brlcad | how about |
| 07:40.47 | Josh45 | and was fine |
| 07:40.48 | brlcad | typing |
| 07:40.50 | brlcad | a complete |
| 07:40.53 | brlcad | sentance |
| 07:40.54 | brlcad | before hitting |
| 07:40.57 | brlcad | return |
| 07:41.24 | brlcad | you've yet to show the verbose run |
| 07:41.37 | Josh45 | because it was successful |
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| 07:41.50 | Josh45 | Unless you want to see it? |
| 07:42.22 | brlcad | so then why did it say autoreconf failed earlier? |
| 07:44.25 | Josh45 | I didn't say it did |
| 07:44.26 | brlcad | fwiw, automake 1.10 is a perfectly fine version, as was libtool 1.5 -- rather well tested configurations |
| 07:44.38 | brlcad | you didn't have to say it did |
| 07:44.49 | brlcad | the pastebin you provided said so |
| 07:46.04 | Josh45 | automake 1.1.0 was what I meant |
| 07:46.11 | brlcad | the same one that mentioned libtoolize -- could just as well ask why did it say that glibtoolize failed earlier? |
| 07:46.14 | Josh45 | and according to autogen.sh |
| 07:46.55 | Josh45 | ERROR: To prepare the BZFlag build system from scratch, at least version 1.6.0 of GNU Automake must be installed. |
| 07:46.59 | Josh45 | ./autogen.sh does not need to be run on the same machine that will |
| 07:47.01 | Josh45 | run configure or make. Either the GNU Autotools will need to be installed |
| 07:47.04 | Josh45 | or upgraded on this system, or ./autogen.sh must be run on the source |
| 07:47.06 | Josh45 | code on another system and then transferred to here. -- Cheers! |
| 07:47.18 | Josh45 | and i had 1.1.0 |
| 07:47.20 | Josh45 | so sorry :| |
| 07:47.24 | brlcad | you don't need to paste it, I know exactly what that script does.. |
| 07:47.30 | brlcad | you don't have 1.1.0 |
| 07:47.39 | Josh45 | I said I *HAD* |
| 07:47.46 | brlcad | you didn't |
| 07:47.49 | brlcad | sorry, get over it :) |
| 07:47.57 | Josh45 | 01:42 < Josh45> and i had 1.1.0 |
| 07:48.12 | brlcad | even if it told you that you did, you did not |
| 07:48.17 | brlcad | 1.1 was 12 years ago |
| 07:48.49 | blast007 | http://www.macports.org/ports.php?by=name&substr=automake I see 1.10.2 |
| 07:48.51 | brlcad | at best, you're using an old autogen.sh script that incorrectly parsed the newer 1.10 version string from automake |
| 07:49.10 | Josh45 | I see why I was confused |
| 07:49.18 | Josh45 | That is exactly why brlcad |
| 07:49.27 | Josh45 | autogen.sh said 1.1.0 |
| 07:50.04 | blast007 | 'automake --version' ftw |
| 07:50.04 | brlcad | what version are you compiling? |
| 07:50.12 | Josh45 | 2.0.8 |
| 07:50.13 | brlcad | (of bzflag) |
| 07:51.13 | brlcad | you also probably shouldn't even need to run autogen.sh if you're using a source distribution |
| 07:51.50 | brlcad | configure 'should' just work unless you run into an autotools bug |
| 07:52.10 | Josh45 | Okay :), will remember for future ference |
| 07:52.12 | Josh45 | reference* |
| 07:52.29 | Josh45 | Boy, I cannot type at 3 in the morning |
| 07:53.09 | Josh45 | rawr |
| 07:53.10 | Josh45 | SDL errors |
| 07:53.30 | blast007 | install linux ;) |
| 07:53.32 | blast007 | ducks |
| 07:53.34 | brlcad | hence my original point about assuming too much -- investigate, listen/read, learn, share |
| 07:53.47 | brlcad | you shouldn't assume anything you're told is truthful |
| 07:53.53 | brlcad | even what I just wrote ;) |
| 07:55.15 | brlcad | goes to dream about his new couch |
| 07:55.20 | Josh45 | http://pastie.org/333042 |
| 07:56.17 | brlcad | can't find the SDL headers -- is the SDL dev framework installed? |
| 07:56.32 | brlcad | has to have the framework |
| 07:56.47 | Josh45 | I doubt it |
| 07:57.10 | brlcad | configure found something for SDL or it wouldn't even be trying |
| 07:57.24 | brlcad | probably found the libs, but you don't have headers |
| 07:57.36 | brlcad | install the headers or the proper dev kit for mac from the sdl folks |
| 07:57.41 | brlcad | rerun configure |
| 07:57.53 | brlcad | make sure it finds and enables sdl (it's in the configure summary) |
| 07:58.01 | brlcad | then you should hopefully be better off |
| 07:59.58 | Josh45 | Thanks brlcad, being done :) |
| 08:14.02 | Josh45 | checking for SDL framework... yes |
| 08:14.02 | Josh45 | checking for SDL_image library... no |
| 08:14.49 | Josh45 | BZFlag-2.0.8.20081207 with the following: curses: -lncurses SDL bzadmin bzflag client |
| 08:54.43 | Josh45 | brlcad |
| 08:54.46 | Josh45 | All goes well until |
| 08:54.47 | Josh45 | http://pastie.org/333054 |
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| 09:12.56 | Josh45 | anyone? |
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| 09:15.34 | jftsang | !bzfquery jftsang.servegame.com |
| 09:15.46 | blast007 | ~ not ! |
| 09:15.58 | blast007 | also works in a PM to ibot |
| 09:16.08 | blast007 | (without the ~) |
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| 09:16.25 | jftsang | thanks |
| 09:17.26 | Josh45 | I'm out for the day |
| 09:17.31 | Josh45 | hope to resolve problem tomorrow |
| 09:19.11 | jftsang | ~bzfquery jftsang.servegame.com |
| 09:21.08 | jftsang | ~bzfquery jftsang.servegame.com |
| 09:21.42 | blast007 | I'd say that your server isn't working ;) |
| 09:22.15 | blast007 | did your IP change? or are you just blocking ICMP pings? |
| 09:22.36 | jftsang | I'd better check that |
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| 14:58.16 | ThePurplePanzer | Anybody out there up to answering a graphics optimization question? |
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| 15:04.56 | delusional | ask the question. |
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| 15:19.54 | ThePurplePanzer | A number of my maps have (say) a ground surface made up of a number of possibly overlapping blocks. |
| 15:20.18 | ThePurplePanzer | Think of these as single face meshes. I can write an optimizer to combine them into |
| 15:21.01 | ThePurplePanzer | one huge face (assuming no holes appear), or at least a much smaller set of faces. Would this huge face render faster than the overlapping single face meshes do now? |
| 15:21.20 | ThePurplePanzer | I can see arguments either way. While I think it would be faster, I don't want to write the |
| 15:21.38 | ThePurplePanzer | optimizer (not too hard, but not completely trivial) if I don't have some sense that |
| 15:21.43 | ThePurplePanzer | the result will be worthwhile. |
| 15:22.26 | ThePurplePanzer | (It might be slower because the huge faces would almost always have to be considered when removing |
| 15:22.52 | ThePurplePanzer | hidden lines, etc., while only the local ones now need to be handled (very loosely speaking)) |
| 15:25.41 | DTRemenak | it will be faster, and overlapping faces will exhibit z-fighting, where a single face will not. the only downside wiould be if we don't tessellate mesh faces for lighting (which is possible) |
| 15:25.50 | delusional | very large faces are always bad for FPS |
| 15:26.12 | ThePurplePanzer | I see the z-fighting now, and I want to improve FPS as much as I can |
| 15:26.57 | ThePurplePanzer | (that really being the whole point of doing this sort of optimization) |
| 15:27.24 | DTRemenak | if it ends up being extremely large it will mess with the way the scene is divided up, so you probably want some kind of upper bound on size |
| 15:27.46 | ThePurplePanzer | Any rule of thumb for what that might be? |
| 15:28.34 | ThePurplePanzer | I'll probably compute the biggest possible combined faces, and then split them afterwards. |
| 15:28.51 | delusional | that works for me. |
| 15:28.57 | delusional | I've done that |
| 15:30.39 | ThePurplePanzer | What's a good target size? 100 x 100 in map units, say? Or is that too big? |
| 15:30.41 | DTRemenak | not really. I could take some guesses, but I wouldn't want to be wrong :) it's not something I'm tremendously familiar with |
| 15:31.00 | DTRemenak | (not really, in response to "any rule of thumb...") |
| 15:31.06 | ThePurplePanzer | Right. |
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| 15:32.45 | ThePurplePanzer | Do you think there'd be any value in having such optimizations take place automatically when maps load? Once I've got the algorithm working, maybe they'll be some more general use it could be put to. |
| 15:34.40 | ThePurplePanzer | Anyway, thx for the info - I'll go ahead and see how performance changes on some examples I've got. |
| 15:34.51 | DTRemenak | sure, but there are some good reasons not to. we want to avoid messing with the map author's intent, and a face combiner will almost always alter texturing in ways that might not be desired. |
| 15:34.52 | ThePurplePanzer | Bye for now. |
| 15:34.56 | delusional | that's probably best |
| 15:35.10 | delusional | test it |
| 15:35.56 | ThePurplePanzer | Well, I could imagine a map designer specifying candidates for merge - so I create a set of coplanar faces with identical texture, and say "merge away if it helps" to bzfs |
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| 15:36.55 | ThePurplePanzer | gotta run |
| 15:36.57 | *** part/#bzflag ThePurplePanzer (n=bentz@64-252-143-143.adsl.snet.net) |
| 15:38.50 | me1 | hmm... my.bzflag.org and bzflag.org time out for me... anyone having issues? |
| 15:39.52 | delusional | yeah, listserver down |
| 15:42.48 | brad | ~bzflist |
| 15:43.02 | *** join/#bzflag Daddo1 (n=LD003@pool-71-185-32-74.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:43.19 | Daddo1 | anyone looking into that (the forums/listserver being down)? |
| 15:43.43 | me1 | yay, I'm not alone! |
| 15:44.00 | brad | seems fine now, try again |
| 15:45.12 | me1 | site is still down |
| 15:45.19 | brad | works here :p |
| 15:45.37 | me1 | well thats cuz your all the way over there |
| 15:49.12 | brad | :o |
| 15:53.18 | *** join/#bzflag Daddo2 (n=LD003@pool-71-185-32-74.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 16:06.57 | Daddo2 | Is there a command to revew channel activity/message history? I'm not very knowledgeable about IRC :( |
| 16:07.12 | me1 | well, you need to activate logging first |
| 16:07.28 | me1 | join #pidgin , they can tell you how |
| 16:07.59 | Daddo2 | ah....but you would have to do that BEFORE you decide you want to see any previous channle content? |
| 16:08.04 | me1 | yeah |
| 16:08.11 | me1 | so anything you've already seen is gone |
| 16:08.20 | Daddo2 | hehe - not much use for that then - at the moment |
| 16:08.38 | me1 | well, you should turn it on anyhow- proves useful |
| 16:09.11 | Daddo2 | well.....on my company laptop I even have to stop Mcafee to get to IRC :) |
| 16:09.16 | Daddo2 | maybe on my home machine |
| 16:09.30 | me1 | create an exception in mcafee for pidgin :P |
| 16:09.49 | Daddo2 | no....they have that locked too! :) |
| 16:10.15 | Daddo2 | np though....if I were to do that I would do it on one of my home machines |
| 16:11.47 | Daddo2 | it's frustrating though because you can go to the logs to see if something was already discussed on a previous day....but nowhere (unless you turn on logging), can you see the current day. So you are doomed to ask the same question that 20 other people did probably. |
| 16:12.20 | Daddo2 | would be a good feature for ibot I think |
| 16:13.37 | *** join/#bzflag Gabe_G23 (n=Gabe_G23@cpe-069-134-026-246.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 16:28.35 | *** join/#bzflag me1_ (n=khazhy@bzflag/player/Me1) |
| 16:32.14 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 16:38.49 | *** join/#bzflag TJ13820 (n=TJ13820@unaffiliated/tj13820) |
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| 16:50.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 16:52.27 | joevano | Daddo2: it is logged http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ |
| 16:53.06 | joevano | it has the previous day and before |
| 16:53.50 | joevano | the link is always in the topic |
| 16:55.06 | ruskie | :) |
| 16:58.07 | *** part/#bzflag Daddo2 (n=LD003@pool-71-185-32-74.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:02.58 | *** join/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
| 17:03.18 | Happy_Alice | hi |
| 17:03.42 | Happy_Alice | i need some help on the bzflag network protocol |
| 17:28.50 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=Jeff@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 17:28.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 17:38.07 | *** join/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
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| 17:59.54 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=khazhy@bzflag/player/Me1) |
| 18:06.21 | joevano | Happy_Alice: like what kind of help? |
| 18:06.39 | Happy_Alice | a documentation ? |
| 18:07.10 | Happy_Alice | the wiki say it is not update |
| 18:07.20 | joevano | that is all we got |
| 18:07.35 | joevano | could look in the source |
| 18:07.43 | Happy_Alice | but...is it update? are the information in it are still correct? |
| 18:07.46 | joevano | and then update the wiki ;) |
| 18:07.54 | Happy_Alice | yes...looking at the source :-) |
| 18:08.14 | Happy_Alice | aaarrhhhh...joevano!!! |
| 18:08.34 | joevano | I do not believe the wiki docs on the protocol are up to date |
| 18:09.56 | Happy_Alice | it is not easy to read the sources from "scratch" |
| 18:10.04 | JeffM2501 | welcome to development :) |
| 18:10.11 | Happy_Alice | hi JeffM |
| 18:10.28 | JeffM2501 | the trunk proto is still in flux, and we are very bad about documenting the protocoll |
| 18:10.34 | Happy_Alice | i have read the bzflag sources a bit (for the translator) |
| 18:10.53 | Happy_Alice | what? the protocol will change? |
| 18:10.55 | JeffM2501 | in general its' just best to go find the message you care about and see how it's packed |
| 18:11.11 | JeffM2501 | sure, as we work on 3.0 the proto has to change with it |
| 18:11.26 | JeffM2501 | I mean if I need to send some new info to the client, I have to make a message that sends it |
| 18:12.37 | Happy_Alice | you know? i just want to play a bit with ....(can i say the word ?) ...java |
| 18:12.43 | Happy_Alice | :-) |
| 18:13.34 | JeffM2501 | you can do whatever you wish |
| 18:14.18 | Happy_Alice | :-/ |
| 18:14.30 | JeffM2501 | if you need help understanding the protocoll we can help you here |
| 18:14.31 | Happy_Alice | really? EVERYTHING ? |
| 18:15.19 | Happy_Alice | thank you for the help. I would probably look at the sources (againnnnnn) :-) |
| 18:15.26 | JeffM2501 | well we'll help you get looking in the right place, sure |
| 18:16.20 | JeffM2501 | there is a problem with your translator tho :( |
| 18:16.24 | JeffM2501 | I am sorry to say |
| 18:16.31 | Happy_Alice | tell me |
| 18:16.39 | JeffM2501 | we can't actualy use it, it violates the Google Translator Terms of Service |
| 18:16.48 | Happy_Alice | ah |
| 18:16.57 | JeffM2501 | "You agree not to access (or attempt to access) any of the Services by any means other than through the interface that is provided by Google, unless you have been specifically allowed to do so in a separate agreement with Google." |
| 18:17.39 | JeffM2501 | that's one reason why I was sugesting finding an open source translator lib, rather then using google |
| 18:17.44 | Happy_Alice | "unless you have been specifically allowed to do so in a separate agreement with Google." |
| 18:17.49 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:17.54 | *** join/#bzflag roboter5a (n=haha@dslb-092-078-183-184.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:17.56 | Happy_Alice | can we be allowed? |
| 18:17.58 | JeffM2501 | bzflag does not have a license via google |
| 18:18.01 | Happy_Alice | if we ask gently |
| 18:18.03 | Happy_Alice | ? |
| 18:18.03 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:18.06 | JeffM2501 | they don't do it for free |
| 18:18.11 | JeffM2501 | it's a license for money thing |
| 18:18.20 | JeffM2501 | and I don't have a couple million |
| 18:18.22 | Happy_Alice | capitalism..pfff |
| 18:18.34 | JeffM2501 | basicly they loose stat tracking on our users, so they have to be compensated for this |
| 18:18.40 | Happy_Alice | what? u dont have this money?????? |
| 18:18.43 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 18:18.57 | JeffM2501 | again, a lib would be best |
| 18:19.08 | Happy_Alice | a lib with a database |
| 18:19.12 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:19.23 | Happy_Alice | ok then.. |
| 18:19.26 | Happy_Alice | very bad news |
| 18:19.37 | JeffM2501 | not really, you showed it could be done |
| 18:19.54 | JeffM2501 | if we get a lib and host it via our own web system we could do the same thing |
| 18:20.01 | JeffM2501 | as that lib+database could be very large |
| 18:20.18 | JeffM2501 | so you've done a good proof of concept of async message processing |
| 18:20.27 | JeffM2501 | and that is useful work |
| 18:20.30 | Happy_Alice | thank you JeffM |
| 18:20.55 | JeffM2501 | or if google ever opens up a translator API, we are set :) |
| 18:21.12 | Happy_Alice | btw...i dont use google API |
| 18:21.17 | JeffM2501 | I know |
| 18:21.24 | Happy_Alice | ok |
| 18:21.27 | JeffM2501 | because they don't have one for translate :) |
| 18:21.59 | Happy_Alice | i should buy google then |
| 18:22.14 | JeffM2501 | got a couple billion under your mattress? |
| 18:22.14 | Happy_Alice | just need to begin to put money back |
| 18:22.29 | me1 | checks |
| 18:22.34 | me1 | I always lose stuff under there |
| 18:22.52 | JeffM2501 | there are a couple open source translation systems |
| 18:22.58 | JeffM2501 | apertium and openlogos |
| 18:23.45 | Happy_Alice | ok |
| 18:24.40 | Happy_Alice | the good news is that i dont need to update my patch with the trunk revision anymore |
| 18:25.16 | JeffM2501 | well once it's submited, it is generaly the job of the person that applies it to update it to revs past the submission date |
| 18:25.17 | Happy_Alice | i will look at apertium and openlogos tho |
| 18:29.15 | JeffM2501 | new driver time, brb |
| 18:29.36 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=Jeff@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 18:29.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 18:29.50 | JeffM2501 | damn that vista and not requiring a reboot |
| 18:30.12 | JeffM2501 | I keep for getting that the video sub system dosnt' suck |
| 18:31.39 | Happy_Alice | see you later, JeffM |
| 18:31.52 | *** part/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
| 18:32.17 | trepan | JeffM2501: guess they've started to catch-up ;-) |
| 18:32.26 | JeffM2501 | guess so |
| 18:32.43 | JeffM2501 | it does jack up all my desktop icons tho |
| 18:32.52 | JeffM2501 | but it would have done that on the reboot anyway |
| 18:35.20 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@host-84-223-164-19.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:35.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 18:38.29 | *** join/#bzflag Josh45 (n=sgd23@s66-76-118-56.eldocmta01.eldoar.lr.sta.suddenlink.net) |
| 18:39.21 | Josh45 | Hello all |
| 18:41.14 | JeffM2501 | hello |
| 18:44.00 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=khazhy@bzflag/player/Me1) |
| 19:43.13 | *** join/#bzflag Guest891 (n=58432ae0@static-ip-62-75-165-247.inaddr.intergenia.de) |
| 19:44.49 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@bzflag/developer/L4m3r) |
| 19:44.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 19:45.03 | Guest891 | hi |
| 19:45.10 | JeffM2501 | hello |
| 19:46.01 | Guest891 | a question ... exists a list where i can announce cheaters? |
| 19:46.06 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 19:46.20 | blast007 | sounds like something that should go on your personal blog |
| 19:46.43 | JeffM2501 | or talk to the server owner where you think you saw it. |
| 19:46.54 | JeffM2501 | the project itself does not say how servers should or should not be run |
| 19:47.01 | JeffM2501 | nor are we any sort of "cops" |
| 19:47.04 | Guest891 | that would be an idea but i guess no one will read personal blogs ,-) |
| 19:47.17 | JeffM2501 | there is also the fact that it would just be your opinion |
| 19:47.29 | JeffM2501 | so we can't have people just going around accusing others |
| 19:48.23 | Guest891 | yes this is a problem ... mmhhh |
| 19:48.55 | JeffM2501 | why should we trust what you say on some list when you won't even give your name on IRC? |
| 19:49.20 | Guest891 | but a global ban list would be nice. After check if the entry is true |
| 19:49.27 | JeffM2501 | again, we are not cops |
| 19:49.43 | JeffM2501 | we do not run the hardware that the servers run on |
| 19:49.49 | Guest891 | im sorry. this is a web client. my bzflag name is general rommel. |
| 19:49.57 | JeffM2501 | what right do we have to tell people how to run there own hardware and bandwith? |
| 19:50.09 | blast007 | seems like the zeebrothers IRC lost their gateway/... cloak |
| 19:50.20 | Gabe_G23 | Guest891, /nick GeneralRommel |
| 19:50.21 | JeffM2501 | awwwww. the shame :) |
| 19:50.41 | GeneralRommel | fine ,-) |
| 19:50.53 | *** join/#bzflag tsykoduk (n=tsykoduk@97-114-71-122.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 19:51.02 | JeffM2501 | GeneralRommel: would you want the people who wrote firefox to tell you what websites you could not go to? |
| 19:51.10 | JeffM2501 | or block you from looking at web pages? |
| 19:51.12 | GeneralRommel | but i guess the most admins are nerved by cheaters too. |
| 19:51.33 | blast007 | a list won't really help solve anything |
| 19:51.42 | JeffM2501 | all it shows is the people you personaly don't like |
| 19:51.45 | blast007 | only good administration (or better code) can |
| 19:51.56 | JeffM2501 | that list is known in this day in age as a "blog" |
| 19:52.12 | JeffM2501 | have you tried a myspace account? |
| 19:52.33 | GeneralRommel | no... you missunderstand my opinion. i asked only if there exist a list with checked cheaters or for checking if the players are cheaters. |
| 19:52.54 | JeffM2501 | who would do that checking? |
| 19:52.57 | JeffM2501 | how would they do that checking? |
| 19:53.01 | JeffM2501 | who would verify that list? |
| 19:53.06 | JeffM2501 | how do you check for a cheater? |
| 19:53.22 | GeneralRommel | the admins who are interested that on her maps no cheaters playing |
| 19:53.55 | Gabe_G23 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:53.58 | Gabe_G23 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.03 | Gabe_G23 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.03 | Gabe_G23 | : |
| 19:54.05 | Gabe_G23 | :-0 |
| 19:54.05 | GeneralRommel | by observing the most frequent maps of the player. |
| 19:54.18 | JeffM2501 | Gabe_G23: that is only for those that abbuse global services or major issues |
| 19:54.41 | JeffM2501 | GeneralRommel: it is very difficult to say someone is cheating just by watching them |
| 19:55.12 | GeneralRommel | ah ... i saw tanks flying without flags ,-) |
| 19:55.14 | JeffM2501 | if some server operator decided to make a list, it would be a private list for that user |
| 19:55.15 | Gabe_G23 | Yeah, but they're lists with "checked cheaters" and bad players. :) |
| 19:55.31 | Gabe_G23 | but, they're not 100% accurate |
| 19:55.32 | blast007 | if a group of servers wanted to share bans, they are free to do so |
| 19:55.34 | JeffM2501 | we would not support or advertise them in ANY way |
| 19:55.41 | blast007 | but it's not something that we wish to support |
| 19:55.49 | JeffM2501 | GeneralRommel: coudl have been lag or packet loss, or corupted data |
| 19:56.00 | GeneralRommel | ok ... this was only a question. |
| 19:56.01 | JeffM2501 | it's unlikely but there is no way for you to be sure in every case |
| 19:56.27 | JeffM2501 | the answer is that we don't know or really care |
| 19:56.52 | GeneralRommel | oh jeff come on ... dont tell me you had have never seen a cheater!? |
| 19:57.00 | JeffM2501 | that is NOT what I said |
| 19:57.01 | GeneralRommel | ok. |
| 19:57.20 | JeffM2501 | I have seen things where I am reasonably confident that someone is cheating |
| 19:57.35 | blast007 | GeneralRommel: I run servers. I ban cheaters. But that doesn't mean that the project should have anything to do with banning or listing them. |
| 19:57.43 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 19:58.00 | JeffM2501 | in fact there are MANY cases where I see things that look like cheating and ARE lag |
| 19:58.10 | JeffM2501 | most of them are shot related |
| 19:58.22 | Gabe_G23 | In any case, to answer your question, there is NO such list and never will be. ;) |
| 19:58.27 | JeffM2501 | bzflag does not handle lag well |
| 19:58.32 | JeffM2501 | Gabe_G23: that is not true |
| 19:58.35 | JeffM2501 | there may be a list |
| 19:58.38 | Gabe_G23 | Meh |
| 19:58.42 | GeneralRommel | ok. i know that ... |
| 19:58.53 | JeffM2501 | it is just not something we know about as the project |
| 19:58.54 | blast007 | there definately is lists |
| 19:58.59 | JeffM2501 | tehre are ban lists |
| 19:59.02 | JeffM2501 | for every server |
| 19:59.06 | JeffM2501 | some are shared |
| 19:59.11 | blast007 | yeah, and some of which are public |
| 19:59.53 | GeneralRommel | its ok... i found one. thanks for help. |
| 20:00.04 | GeneralRommel | cu |
| 20:00.09 | blast007 | bye |
| 20:11.19 | *** join/#bzflag Josh45 (n=sgd23@s66-76-118-56.eldocmta01.eldoar.lr.sta.suddenlink.net) |
| 20:11.25 | Josh45 | Hey all.. I'm back |
| 20:12.53 | JeffM2501 | umm.. cool... I.. guess.. |
| 20:13.30 | Josh45 | yesterday evening, I tried compiling bzflag (which compiles succesfully on BSD btw) on Mac OS X, which failed a couple times, then I got stuck on this.. http://pastie.org/333054 |
| 20:14.21 | Josh45 | Today I ran autogen.sh verbosely, here's the output of that.. http://pastie.org/333338 |
| 20:14.24 | JeffM2501 | there is no error in there that I can see |
| 20:14.43 | Josh45 | and then ./configure, http://pastie.org/333339 |
| 20:14.49 | Josh45 | so far so good (this morning) |
| 20:15.03 | Josh45 | I then run make, which gets this http://pastebin.com/m42229ba8 |
| 20:15.19 | Josh45 | If you scroll all the way down to the most recent make, it starts bzflag, then crashes :( |
| 20:15.38 | JeffM2501 | the compiler crashes? |
| 20:15.42 | JeffM2501 | or bzflag crashes? |
| 20:15.45 | Josh45 | it states that there are no fonts found |
| 20:15.54 | Josh45 | bzflag, the executable starts, then quits |
| 20:15.57 | Josh45 | forcing me back to the prompt |
| 20:16.15 | Josh45 | if you mind, I paste the 5 lines.. |
| 20:16.16 | Josh45 | iBook:/Josh/bzflag/clients/bzflag-2.0.8 Josh$ ./src/bzflag/bzflag |
| 20:16.17 | Josh45 | data path is "/Josh/bzflag/clients/bzflag-2.0.8/src/bzflag" |
| 20:16.17 | Josh45 | No fonts found (the -directory option may help). Exiting |
| 20:16.18 | Josh45 | iBook:/Josh/bzflag/clients/bzflag-2.0.8 Josh$ |
| 20:16.32 | JeffM2501 | yeah, did you READ the error it gave you |
| 20:16.36 | JeffM2501 | No fonts found (the -directory option may help) |
| 20:16.37 | Josh45 | yes |
| 20:16.43 | Josh45 | I have no idea where fonts on Mac OS X are ^^ |
| 20:16.48 | Josh45 | Tiger btw |
| 20:16.49 | JeffM2501 | it's not mac fonts |
| 20:16.55 | JeffM2501 | it needs to know where the data dir is |
| 20:17.11 | JeffM2501 | the OSX version by default checks for the data dir in the folder layout of the .app |
| 20:17.15 | JeffM2501 | you did not build a .app |
| 20:17.21 | JeffM2501 | you build an executable linux style |
| 20:17.22 | Josh45 | I see |
| 20:17.31 | JeffM2501 | so it needs to know where the data dir is to read our fonts |
| 20:17.31 | Josh45 | Yup |
| 20:17.45 | JeffM2501 | you are runing from the src/bzflag dir, so it dosn't know where the data dir is |
| 20:17.53 | JeffM2501 | use -directiory to tell it where the data dir is |
| 20:18.04 | JeffM2501 | since you are running linux style |
| 20:18.06 | Josh45 | And the data dir is /Josh/bzflag/clients/bzflag-2.0.8/src/bzflag |
| 20:18.23 | JeffM2501 | no thats the source dir for bzflag |
| 20:18.41 | JeffM2501 | /Josh/bzflag/clients/bzflag-2.0.8/data |
| 20:18.47 | Josh45 | I see |
| 20:18.51 | Josh45 | I will try |
| 20:18.55 | JeffM2501 | it's all the textures and fonts and stuff |
| 20:18.59 | JeffM2501 | the actual GAME data |
| 20:19.02 | JeffM2501 | not the program source code |
| 20:19.10 | Josh45 | :) thanks Jeff |
| 20:19.10 | JeffM2501 | or use xcode and have it build a .app |
| 20:19.44 | Josh45 | I'll end up symlinking it |
| 20:19.55 | JeffM2501 | ewww |
| 20:20.02 | Josh45 | I'm cheap xD |
| 20:20.04 | *** join/#bzflag tsykoduk_ (n=tsykoduk@97-114-71-122.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 20:20.06 | JeffM2501 | and messy |
| 20:20.10 | Josh45 | haha :P |
| 20:20.26 | JeffM2501 | the OSX version make a lot of assumptions that it's in a .app |
| 20:20.30 | JeffM2501 | since that's how we distribute it |
| 20:21.09 | JeffM2501 | -directory will get most of them tho |
| 20:21.16 | Josh45 | Okay :) |
| 20:21.22 | Josh45 | if it doesn't, I'll see what I can do :D |
| 20:21.28 | JeffM2501 | it will |
| 20:23.06 | Josh45 | Weird |
| 20:23.12 | Josh45 | The lits serv is shown |
| 20:23.16 | Josh45 | when I select a server |
| 20:23.19 | Josh45 | and hit enter on connect |
| 20:23.22 | Josh45 | it says "server not found" |
| 20:23.34 | JeffM2501 | something is blocking your DNS lookup or something |
| 20:23.46 | JeffM2501 | or blocking your access to it |
| 20:23.56 | JeffM2501 | do you have any outbound ports blocked? |
| 20:24.22 | Josh45 | No, I should not |
| 20:24.34 | Josh45 | It's for all the servers also, hmm.. |
| 20:24.36 | JeffM2501 | does it fail right away? |
| 20:24.39 | Josh45 | yes |
| 20:24.44 | JeffM2501 | yeah then it's DNS |
| 20:24.51 | JeffM2501 | are you behind a proxy server or anything? |
| 20:24.55 | Josh45 | No sir |
| 20:25.02 | JeffM2501 | dunno then |
| 20:25.37 | JeffM2501 | the list server is hosted off one single list, on port 80, from us |
| 20:25.55 | JeffM2501 | after that the client does it's own DNS lookup to connect to the server you pick |
| 20:27.02 | Josh45 | Okay |
| 20:27.13 | Josh45 | I opened up another bzflag client (not the one I compiled) |
| 20:27.16 | Josh45 | which connects successfully |
| 20:27.18 | Josh45 | on the same computer |
| 20:27.23 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 20:27.29 | Josh45 | Could it be a problem with a data dir? :| |
| 20:27.31 | JeffM2501 | then something about your build is jacked |
| 20:27.35 | JeffM2501 | probably didn't use ares |
| 20:27.40 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:27.44 | Josh45 | It works 100% fine on FreeBSD :| rawr |
| 20:27.45 | JeffM2501 | probably the libs yours linked with |
| 20:27.55 | JeffM2501 | BSD != OSX |
| 20:28.04 | Josh45 | Yeah, true |
| 20:28.06 | JeffM2501 | the tosh is a strange platform |
| 20:28.28 | JeffM2501 | we do a lot of special tweaking to get the mac version to work on a wide range of systems |
| 20:28.30 | Josh45 | But it is the only computer in my house that I am able to play bzflag on :| (sadly) |
| 20:28.54 | JeffM2501 | why do you need to compile? |
| 20:29.02 | Josh45 | school project |
| 20:29.21 | JeffM2501 | well then sounds like it's time to use the debuger and find out why it's failing :) |
| 20:29.34 | JeffM2501 | why are you using such an old version? |
| 20:29.54 | Josh45 | I thought I'd go with a stable release |
| 20:30.04 | JeffM2501 | heh, stable |
| 20:30.05 | Josh45 | But I guess I should get 2.0.10? |
| 20:30.07 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is not an OS |
| 20:30.17 | JeffM2501 | I'd use 2.0.13 from SVN |
| 20:30.48 | Josh45 | mmh |
| 20:30.58 | Josh45 | I really wonder why it's not connecting :( |
| 20:31.07 | Josh45 | I'll check SVN then |
| 20:31.16 | JeffM2501 | I'm guessing it tried to link with a version of cares that dosn't work |
| 20:31.22 | JeffM2501 | the .8 build system wasn't that great |
| 20:31.39 | JeffM2501 | also that has an older version of cares if it tired to build it it'sself |
| 20:32.11 | Josh45 | I can tell it isn't that great |
| 20:32.25 | Josh45 | the autogen.sh messed up automake version 1.10 with 1.1.0 :P |
| 20:32.39 | JeffM2501 | it's old |
| 20:32.40 | Josh45 | which caused bzflag not to compile (requires 1.6+) |
| 20:33.20 | JeffM2501 | .13 should have a newer build system |
| 20:33.30 | JeffM2501 | it's not the new build system for trunk, but it should be better |
| 20:34.01 | Josh45 | svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag |
| 20:34.05 | Josh45 | is that 2.0.13 development version? |
| 20:34.11 | JeffM2501 | oh god no |
| 20:34.20 | JeffM2501 | it's just the current code for the old 2.0.x compatable branch |
| 20:34.24 | JeffM2501 | current code is trun |
| 20:34.26 | JeffM2501 | trunk |
| 20:34.31 | JeffM2501 | 2.99.something |
| 20:34.36 | JeffM2501 | maybe 8 or 9 |
| 20:34.39 | JeffM2501 | I don't remember |
| 20:35.02 | Josh45 | haha XD |
| 20:35.10 | JeffM2501 | the rev on trunk dosn't matter much |
| 20:35.17 | JeffM2501 | everyone just builds from latest svn |
| 20:35.23 | JeffM2501 | it's only used to filter servers |
| 20:35.26 | JeffM2501 | and mark proto breaks |
| 20:35.35 | JeffM2501 | it'll be released as 3.0.0 |
| 20:37.29 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=fatass__@bzflag/player/ThinkDifferent) |
| 20:41.05 | Josh45 | I gotta go soon, be back later hopefully ;) [getting 2.0.13] |
| 20:41.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Manu] by ChanServ |
| 20:42.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Manu] by ChanServ |
| 20:44.31 | JeffM2501 | goes to the store before he gets asked any more questions |
| 20:46.09 | blast007 | ;) |
| 20:50.42 | *** join/#bzflag zyame (n=zyame@89.240.19.198) |
| 20:51.08 | zyame | can .12 and .10 play on the same server? |
| 20:51.50 | blast007 | the 2.0.whatever versions are compatible |
| 20:53.58 | zyame | what's the cheat protection like? |
| 20:54.17 | blast007 | why? |
| 20:54.44 | zyame | I'm interested in looking at cheat protection code |
| 20:55.13 | blast007 | it could be a lot better |
| 20:55.22 | zyame | do people cheat? |
| 20:55.26 | blast007 | yes |
| 20:58.12 | spldart | Look at cheat protection code in interest of development or curiosity or what? Just in case you should know that 2.0.x is dead and all dev work goes to the next release. |
| 20:58.46 | zyame | curiosity |
| 20:58.50 | spldart | oh ic |
| 20:58.51 | spldart | k |
| 20:59.57 | zyame | how many players are usually online? |
| 21:05.28 | zyame | takes a seriously long time to build eh? |
| 21:06.09 | me1 | Well, iirc, someone built it in 27 seconds on an octo or 16 core machine |
| 21:06.30 | zyame | from scratch? |
| 21:07.29 | me1 | probably |
| 21:07.45 | blast007 | zyame: usually 150 to 200 players |
| 21:08.22 | blast007 | but that's counting observer players as well, some of which are just loggers |
| 21:08.48 | zyame | loads of the Known_Cheats should be easy to detect |
| 21:10.30 | zyame | are they listed because they aren't? |
| 21:11.10 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-086-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:11.31 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-086-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:11.42 | me1 | They are probably listed because they are known. |
| 21:14.09 | blast007 | some of those are HEAVILY outdated |
| 21:14.33 | blast007 | "drive outside of the playing area." that was fixed back in 1.7g2, iirc |
| 21:15.44 | blast007 | (which came out in 2003) |
| 21:16.47 | blast007 | and some of them are just outright wrong |
| 21:16.55 | blast007 | like "be joined as an observer, but playing with a visible, invincible tank" |
| 21:17.30 | blast007 | that would only be from the "cheaters" perspective. You can't be observer and have player updates (or shots) sent to the server |
| 21:17.54 | blast007 | so I wouldn't call that a cheat. that would just be an alternate set of controls for the observer mode |
| 21:27.21 | *** join/#bzflag Abominable (n=Abominab@user-0ce2hpi.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 21:38.23 | zyame | I'm too laggy to play on any of the servers with players |
| 21:38.31 | zyame | everyone must be in the US |
| 21:39.18 | JeffM2501 | seriously is it a full moon or what? |
| 21:40.07 | spldart | heh ;) |
| 21:40.55 | JeffM2501 | zyame: bzflag was made as a lan game in 1993, so it makes a lot of asumptions about things that are not really smart in the modern interenet age |
| 21:45.25 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@nat/sun/x-ea36ae72aa518265) |
| 21:46.03 | zyame | what can I do about my ping being too high? |
| 21:47.00 | JeffM2501 | what is your frame rate? |
| 21:47.08 | zyame | fine, I have a high spec machine |
| 21:47.12 | JeffM2501 | what is your frame rate? |
| 21:47.21 | zyame | is it shown onscreen? |
| 21:47.26 | JeffM2501 | hit T |
| 21:49.14 | blast007 | it'll show up near the top of the mousebox |
| 21:49.39 | zyame | it's 60 |
| 21:49.50 | JeffM2501 | then play on a server closer to you |
| 21:49.54 | JeffM2501 | or are you on WIFI? |
| 21:51.04 | zyame | on the server list are low pinging servers shown in green? |
| 21:51.11 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 21:51.18 | JeffM2501 | we don't do pings yet |
| 21:51.24 | JeffM2501 | that's a 3.0 thing |
| 21:51.29 | JeffM2501 | where are you located? |
| 21:51.35 | zyame | UK |
| 21:51.49 | JeffM2501 | then you want the german servers |
| 21:52.13 | blast007 | http://bzstats.strayer.de/servers/?lang=en |
| 21:52.18 | blast007 | that list shows country flags |
| 21:53.11 | blast007 | bztank.net shows as being in England, so that might be an even better option |
| 21:54.57 | zyame | same problem on those servers |
| 21:55.07 | zyame | even though I can ping them manually at < 50ms |
| 21:55.12 | JeffM2501 | are you using WIFI to connect? |
| 21:55.14 | zyame | no |
| 21:59.24 | JeffM2501 | what is your lagstats on the server |
| 22:01.08 | blast007 | press n and send /lagstats as chat |
| 22:01.27 | zyame | problem appears to be firewall |
| 22:03.49 | zyame | maybe not |
| 22:04.28 | zyame | lagstats are 70-200 += 2-6 |
| 22:04.56 | zyame | but 7800 to the first person? in the list |
| 22:05.22 | blast007 | 7800ms? |
| 22:05.41 | zyame | yes |
| 22:05.50 | blast007 | sounds like your connection can't handle that much data |
| 22:06.02 | blast007 | what downstream do you have? |
| 22:06.09 | zyame | 8mb |
| 22:06.14 | blast007 | eh, hmm |
| 22:06.21 | blast007 | (that should be more than enough) |
| 22:06.21 | zyame | I can easily download at 500KB/s |
| 22:06.27 | zyame | and upload at 60 |
| 22:06.49 | blast007 | not sure what to tell ya. that's unusually high |
| 22:06.52 | zyame | no other users on network, nothing else is using the internet |
| 22:07.01 | zyame | why is it high for the first person on the list only? |
| 22:07.14 | blast007 | first server, you mean? |
| 22:07.28 | blast007 | that one has the list players |
| 22:07.31 | blast007 | the most* |
| 22:07.39 | zyame | no on /lagstats |
| 22:07.53 | blast007 | oh, I see what you mean... |
| 22:08.01 | blast007 | thought you meant you had that much on the first server :/ |
| 22:08.18 | blast007 | if it's a bzadmin client, it doesn't properly respond to pings, so the lag shows really high |
| 22:08.19 | zyame | the player is a spectator/admin so I guess that's why |
| 22:08.32 | zyame | how do I ping the server? |
| 22:08.45 | blast007 | you can just look at your own lag in the /lagstats |
| 22:09.31 | zyame | mine is quite low |
| 22:09.35 | zyame | they must be ping spikes |
| 22:19.12 | *** join/#bzflag Qew (n=qew@82-69-126-225.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 22:43.53 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc1-newe2-0-0-cust289.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:47.04 | *** join/#bzflag tsykoduk (n=tsykoduk@97-114-71-122.spkn.qwest.net) |
| 22:59.42 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@bzflag/developer/Constitution) |
| 23:40.31 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 23:40.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |