| 00:21.33 | delusional | 2 cheaters making the rounds right now... check your servers |
| 00:21.55 | delusional | one was a registered name, illuminati |
| 00:22.20 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@bzflag/player/Me1) |
| 00:22.59 | spldart | ooOOoo.. |
| 00:23.03 | spldart | looks around a bit |
| 00:33.56 | *** join/#bzflag chaoscon (i=jeremy@smartserv/ceo/chaoscon) |
| 00:38.36 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@cpe-75-81-208-175.we.res.rr.com) |
| 00:38.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 01:11.15 | *** join/#bzflag temp_work (n=temporal@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 01:11.36 | *** join/#bzflag Happy_Alice (n=AliceD@unaffiliated/happyalice/x-10468) |
| 01:12.16 | Happy_Alice | JeffM: ping |
| 01:23.47 | Erroneous | Happy_Alice: whatcha need? |
| 01:25.26 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, that's DTRemenak |
| 01:26.03 | Happy_Alice | hi DTRemenak |
| 01:26.21 | Happy_Alice | i have tried to join you about the utf8 encoding in the trunk |
| 01:27.04 | Happy_Alice | i have written a multilangual translator and everything is working except for asion fonts |
| 01:27.34 | Happy_Alice | and the weird thing is that output in the terminal are good |
| 01:27.39 | Happy_Alice | do u have an idea? |
| 01:28.01 | Happy_Alice | JeffM: hi |
| 01:28.20 | Happy_Alice | I am going to writte a java gui for bzadmin |
| 01:28.55 | Happy_Alice | i am going to port the gbzadmin written by anomaly |
| 01:28.58 | JeffM | I'm sorry |
| 01:29.27 | Happy_Alice | but....someone told me it could interferate with one of your project? |
| 01:29.35 | JeffM | huh? |
| 01:29.39 | JeffM | I hate java |
| 01:29.42 | JeffM | so I can't see how |
| 01:29.55 | JeffM | by java so you mean "web page"? |
| 01:30.01 | Happy_Alice | nah |
| 01:30.02 | JeffM | cus we have webadmin in 3.0 |
| 01:30.09 | Happy_Alice | java..just java |
| 01:30.17 | Happy_Alice | because it is portable |
| 01:30.21 | temp_work | JeffM, I thought you are making a web interface for server management |
| 01:30.22 | JeffM | ummm ok |
| 01:30.24 | Think_Differentl | java applet, or just a plain app? |
| 01:30.27 | JeffM | temp_work, I did |
| 01:30.30 | JeffM | it's a plugin |
| 01:30.31 | temp_work | ok then |
| 01:30.36 | JeffM | has nothing to do with java or bzadmin |
| 01:30.39 | Happy_Alice | plain app, think_differentl |
| 01:30.50 | Erroneous | Happy_Alice: the fonts we ship don't have asian characters. try setting up a font that you know does have those characters. |
| 01:30.52 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, what OSs will it support that bzadmin dosn't now? |
| 01:31.10 | Think_Differentl | i kinda like the idea of an inbrowser java applet |
| 01:31.15 | Happy_Alice | Erroneous: i have tried with the fonts of my terminal |
| 01:31.19 | Erroneous | we don't ship any that do, because they're HUGE...typically 20mb or so, and our entire package is less than that now |
| 01:31.31 | JeffM | if you are looking at portable devices, then I do think that webadmin will be the way for the future, as then you don't need much beef on the device side |
| 01:31.37 | Happy_Alice | JeffM..i amspeaking about a GUI |
| 01:31.52 | JeffM | ahh |
| 01:31.56 | JeffM | so you'd still need bzadmin |
| 01:32.06 | JeffM | well whatever floats you boat |
| 01:32.25 | JeffM | the only thing I've done with admin stuff is webadmin |
| 01:32.26 | Happy_Alice | jeffM.....boat can sink |
| 01:32.33 | JeffM | and it's all done via web pages |
| 01:32.44 | JeffM | the server hosts them out and has an admin gui |
| 01:33.04 | Erroneous | Happy_Alice: if you get a font that has the right characters, they should display fine. I've tested the FTGL end of it with simplified chinese, and we use it directly from bzflag. |
| 01:33.06 | Happy_Alice | so i figure...we dont need a gui for bzadmin ? |
| 01:33.19 | Happy_Alice | FTGL ? |
| 01:33.21 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, honestly I don't think it would be used that much |
| 01:33.28 | Erroneous | FTGL is our font rendering engine (in trunk) |
| 01:34.02 | Erroneous | it has a sample app that uses the same utf8 code that bzflag does |
| 01:34.05 | Think_Differentl | a java applet might be more usefull, seeing as you don't actually have to download a seperate application or download bzflag and it can be launched in-browser |
| 01:34.15 | Happy_Alice | Erroneous: so u dont plan to use asian fonts for futur version of bzflag? |
| 01:34.27 | JeffM | Think_Differentl, I'd rather in browser stuff be put into webadmin |
| 01:34.42 | JeffM | why do you need a seperate applet if the server can just host you the pages for admin? |
| 01:34.48 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg (n=Default@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 01:34.56 | Happy_Alice | i agree with JeffM |
| 01:34.59 | Erroneous | we don't plan to ship asian fonts, correct. we don't have any HUD translations into languages that need them |
| 01:35.17 | Think_Differentl | hmm, maybe. |
| 01:35.45 | JeffM | Think_Differentl, webadmin is very extendable and customisable |
| 01:35.45 | Happy_Alice | Erroneous. So i have to remove the chinese (and other) language form my translator? |
| 01:35.52 | JeffM | it's all template driven |
| 01:35.53 | Happy_Alice | from* |
| 01:35.53 | Erroneous | if we had a HUD translation that required an asian font, and the translator recommended an appropriately-licensed CJK font, we'd consider including it. |
| 01:35.59 | Think_Differentl | you can see the chat and everything? |
| 01:36.03 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:36.07 | Erroneous | otherwise, yes, we will only support latin-1, cyrillic and greek |
| 01:36.09 | Think_Differentl | very cool |
| 01:36.13 | JeffM | you can even download the chat logs |
| 01:36.23 | JeffM | or chat back from the server |
| 01:36.50 | JeffM | computeHolderOffsetLen: |
| 01:36.51 | Think_Differentl | will it be part of the 3.0 server? |
| 01:36.51 | JeffM | SetVAR#('TLOffset') Num#('0') |
| 01:36.51 | JeffM | SetStatusOff |
| 01:36.51 | JeffM | SetOutputStraightTG |
| 01:36.51 | JeffM | SetVAR#('XOff') EPX# |
| 01:36.51 | JeffM | SetVAR#('YOff') EPY# |
| 01:36.53 | JeffM | SetVAR#('ZOff') EPZ# |
| 01:36.55 | JeffM | SetOutputStraightTT |
| 01:36.56 | Happy_Alice | ok...so my translator is almost done...I just have to remove the asian language |
| 01:36.56 | Erroneous | whoa.... |
| 01:36.57 | JeffM | SetVAR#('XOff') SUB# GetVar#('XOff') EPX# |
| 01:36.59 | JeffM | SetVAR#('YOff') SUB# GetVar#('YOff') EPY# |
| 01:37.01 | JeffM | SetVAR#('ZOff') SUB# GetVar#('ZOff') EPZ# |
| 01:37.03 | JeffM | SetOutputRotatedTT |
| 01:37.08 | JeffM | SetStatusOn |
| 01:37.09 | JeffM | |
| 01:37.11 | JeffM | SetVAR#('TLOffset') SQRT# ADD# MUL# GetVar#('XOff') GetVar#('XOff') ADD# MUL# GetVar#('YOff') GetVar#('YOff') MUL# GetVar#('ZOff') GetVar#('ZOff') |
| 01:37.14 | JeffM | RETURN |
| 01:37.16 | JeffM | doHolderOffset: |
| 01:37.18 | JeffM | ResetUserMatrix |
| 01:37.20 | JeffM | computeHolderOffsetLen |
| 01:37.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 01:37.23 | JeffM | {SetVAR#('TLOffset') Mul# ToolOffsetZ# Num#('-1')} |
| 01:37.24 | JeffM | SetVAR#('HolderShift') Num#('0') { Set this as the distance from the holder attatchment point to the TG datum in Z (allong the tool vector) } |
| 01:37.25 | *** kick/#bzflag [JeffM!n=dtremena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak] by Erroneous (Erroneous) |
| 01:37.39 | Think_Differentl | heh |
| 01:37.39 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM) |
| 01:37.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 01:37.41 | JeffM | thanks |
| 01:37.44 | Erroneous | np |
| 01:37.47 | Happy_Alice | what did happen? |
| 01:37.47 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=13145 |
| 01:37.52 | JeffM | is what I meant to paste :) |
| 01:37.53 | Erroneous | didn't think that's quite what you intended to paste :) |
| 01:37.56 | JeffM | no it was not |
| 01:38.07 | JeffM | noone needs to see that wacky post code |
| 01:38.17 | JeffM | vector math in compost is not purdy |
| 01:38.31 | Erroneous | the first three words in that sentence are redundant ;) |
| 01:39.17 | JeffM | Think_Differentl, that has my screenshots from the inital template |
| 01:39.53 | Think_Differentl | interesting, and you'll be able to send chat messages to the game, right? |
| 01:39.58 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:40.01 | JeffM | they come from "SERVER" |
| 01:40.08 | JeffM | since you arn't joined as a player |
| 01:40.37 | JeffM | if you want in game player chating via a web page, that I'd do with a different plugin webchat |
| 01:40.38 | Think_Differentl | does the web-admin have some sort of authentication? (so it can use bzbb groups) |
| 01:40.44 | blast007 | yes |
| 01:40.45 | Happy_Alice | jeffM....the messages in the webadmin are update in real time? |
| 01:40.48 | JeffM | it uses global auth |
| 01:40.59 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, refreshes the page every so often IIRC |
| 01:41.09 | JeffM | the templates it uses now are VERY simple |
| 01:41.16 | JeffM | they could be extended to do a lot more |
| 01:41.38 | JeffM | Think_Differentl, each page defines what permisions are needed to view it |
| 01:41.44 | temp_work | is WebAdmin intended to be a replacement for BZAdmin? |
| 01:41.47 | JeffM | then it checks your groups to see what groups have those perms |
| 01:42.07 | JeffM | temp_work, no, it's intended to be webadmin |
| 01:42.16 | JeffM | it's just another tool that is available |
| 01:42.30 | JeffM | personaly yes, I'd like to see it replace bzadmin |
| 01:42.35 | blast007 | it'll replace my use of bzadmin though |
| 01:42.36 | Erroneous | temp_work: no, it's a supplement. it will undoubtedly replace bzadmin for some people. |
| 01:42.38 | JeffM | but I won't cry if that dosn't happen |
| 01:42.43 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:42.46 | Happy_Alice | JeffM, so webadmin woulf not include all the features of bzadmin? |
| 01:42.48 | JeffM | it's whatever people want to use |
| 01:42.55 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, in a perfect world, sure |
| 01:42.57 | blast007 | (or be an option instead of the logDetail plugin) |
| 01:43.08 | Think_Differentl | does webadmin render well on mobile browsers? |
| 01:43.13 | blast007 | Think_Differentl: try it |
| 01:43.19 | JeffM | some of the "features" of bzadmin I don't think should be in bzadmin tho |
| 01:43.28 | JeffM | like I don't think bzadmin should be a chat tool |
| 01:43.32 | trepan | bzadmin can be used in scripts -- a role webadmin would not fit well? |
| 01:43.35 | JeffM | if we want a chat tool ,lets build a chat tool |
| 01:43.47 | JeffM | yes bzadmin can work with the OS better then plugins can |
| 01:43.56 | JeffM | tho bzfchron can do a lot of that now too |
| 01:44.07 | JeffM | it all depends on what you want to do |
| 01:44.11 | trepan | lua -- os.execute() equivalent to system() |
| 01:44.27 | trepan | so you've already got that part covered ;-) |
| 01:44.52 | JeffM | the main thing I wanted webadmin to do is provide SOME admin inteface on a device indpendent system |
| 01:45.00 | JeffM | webadmin works the same, everywhere |
| 01:45.00 | Happy_Alice | JeffM..why do u "hate" java ? |
| 01:45.03 | JeffM | even on your iphone |
| 01:45.08 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, because it is evil |
| 01:45.11 | Erroneous | heh |
| 01:45.16 | Think_Differentl | heh, in some ways |
| 01:45.22 | Swigg | Hey: Anyone know a "Zizzler"? |
| 01:45.34 | JeffM | In general there are now better ways to do what java does, unless you are talking about javascript |
| 01:45.45 | JeffM | as an application programing language is has a number of flaws |
| 01:45.59 | Happy_Alice | JeffM...i am only talking about GUI |
| 01:45.59 | JeffM | some feel it's cross platform ability outweights those flaws |
| 01:46.02 | JeffM | and that used to be true |
| 01:46.03 | Erroneous | the only thing java and javascript have in common is an idiotic marketing scheme ;) |
| 01:46.11 | JeffM | but in this day in age there are many ways to do that in better languages. |
| 01:46.27 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-15-137-5.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:46.29 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, I'd much rather see a C# gui for bzadmin |
| 01:46.32 | JeffM | then a java one |
| 01:46.33 | *** join/#bzflag chaoscon (i=jeremy@smartserv/ceo/chaoscon) |
| 01:46.36 | Think_Differentl | i never really like the GUIs |
| 01:46.39 | Think_Differentl | for java, that is |
| 01:46.41 | Erroneous | java guis tend to be clunky and not blend well with the user's system |
| 01:46.56 | Happy_Alice | C# is portable on all plateform? |
| 01:47.01 | trepan | not really |
| 01:47.03 | JeffM | MONO FTW! |
| 01:47.04 | Erroneous | properly written c# is |
| 01:47.10 | Swigg | the more you try to make it run on everything the worse it runs on specific systems |
| 01:47.29 | Erroneous | most c# code is not, because microsoft encourages noncompliance |
| 01:47.31 | JeffM | trepan, the executables I run on windows, linux, and bsd beg to differ ;) |
| 01:47.38 | Swigg | C# must be compiled for different processors/os's |
| 01:47.44 | trepan | JeffM: hello world? ;-) |
| 01:47.47 | JeffM | swigg no |
| 01:47.49 | spldart | hehehe |
| 01:47.51 | JeffM | trepan, no web servers |
| 01:47.52 | trepan | the ones i've done haven't been so lucky |
| 01:47.52 | Swigg | oh no? |
| 01:48.00 | JeffM | no |
| 01:48.04 | JeffM | it's done by the runtime |
| 01:48.18 | Erroneous | Swigg: c# can be compiled to two different forms, one of which is a bytecode format (much like java) |
| 01:48.21 | JeffM | trepan, then I say the same thing about my experience with java :) |
| 01:48.27 | Erroneous | the other is native code, which is not cross-platform compatible |
| 01:48.56 | JeffM | swigg I've taken an exe out of VC, copied it to linux, typed mono myexe.exe and it's run fine |
| 01:49.01 | Happy_Alice | btw....java seems to be quite portable. isnt it? |
| 01:49.08 | Erroneous | yes, it is |
| 01:49.14 | Happy_Alice | soooooooo |
| 01:49.15 | Happy_Alice | :-) |
| 01:49.20 | Think_Differentl | so long as the thing you're trying to run your java stuff on has a working JVM |
| 01:49.22 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, sure if you can get it setup on your OS with all the crap you need. |
| 01:49.29 | JeffM | exactly |
| 01:49.33 | Erroneous | one advantage does not a superior system make :) |
| 01:49.40 | Happy_Alice | is not sponsored by java. She doesnt know this language yet |
| 01:49.40 | Think_Differentl | for embedded, this can be a problem |
| 01:49.56 | JeffM | like I said, there are MANY ways to do cross platform in this day in age |
| 01:50.04 | spldart | Java is slightly evil imho |
| 01:50.05 | Erroneous | Think_Differentl: "embedded" and "portable" are pretty much contradictions in terms |
| 01:50.15 | Happy_Alice | evil ... evil ... |
| 01:50.23 | spldart | slightly |
| 01:50.28 | Think_Differentl | it's still a problem for embedded systems |
| 01:50.37 | Erroneous | sure, didn't say it wasn't :) |
| 01:50.41 | JeffM | in General I think you should look at what need you are trying to fill first |
| 01:50.42 | trepan | whispers ... lua :) |
| 01:50.48 | blast007 | http://www.mono-project.com/Maemo :P I'd call that quite portable. I'm pretty sure that there's no Sun Java JVM for maemo yet |
| 01:51.05 | blast007 | though I think there is some 3rd party JVM |
| 01:51.09 | JeffM | then once you see what problem you are solving, you can see what the end user requirements should be, then pick the tools that fit those best. |
| 01:51.29 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorit (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-5-198-109.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:52.04 | JeffM | the other thing I like about C# stuff is, monobuild will take a VC# project and just use it |
| 01:52.05 | Think_Differentl | i wish input was easier on java. all those stupid scanners and reading lines |
| 01:52.08 | JeffM | even via command line |
| 01:52.19 | Happy_Alice | trapan: what is "lua" ? |
| 01:52.21 | JeffM | you only have one make system that makes eveyrone happy |
| 01:52.25 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, a scripting language |
| 01:52.26 | trepan | blast007: i guess the 'portable' memory footprint reqs have been bumped up |
| 01:52.38 | Happy_Alice | portable? |
| 01:52.39 | blast007 | N800 has 128MB |
| 01:52.40 | Happy_Alice | :-) |
| 01:52.51 | spldart | ... sry... I've been struggling with some javascript in lenny's browsers and have had some... 'issues' hehe. Even with non-free in the apt sources list. |
| 01:52.52 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, sure on anything that has a lua interprenter |
| 01:52.57 | JeffM | it's more like python then java |
| 01:52.59 | Happy_Alice | hehe |
| 01:53.19 | JeffM | lua is commonly used as an embeded scripting system in other apps |
| 01:53.20 | blast007 | spldart: javascript != java |
| 01:53.29 | spldart | oops |
| 01:53.41 | JeffM | they link to a liblua and then can run lua scrips that can use an exposed API |
| 01:53.45 | spldart | but some sun stuff too |
| 01:53.51 | JeffM | it's not run by the OS or a VM or anything |
| 01:54.44 | Happy_Alice | same as libcurl ? |
| 01:54.50 | trepan | arguably, it's an embedded VM (has opcodes, etc...) |
| 01:54.51 | JeffM | but back to your project idea. regardless of the language, do you think that people need/want a GUI for bzadmin? |
| 01:54.59 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, no, thats an HTTP lib |
| 01:55.13 | Happy_Alice | JeffM. I think people would ask for it |
| 01:55.14 | JeffM | trepan, sure I'm going VERY high level |
| 01:55.22 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, they would or they have? |
| 01:55.33 | JeffM | cus if they want it why have they not asked alredy? |
| 01:55.42 | Happy_Alice | JeffM: they want a GUI for bzadmin |
| 01:56.01 | Think_Differentl | there was a GUI a while ago |
| 01:56.06 | Think_Differentl | it was GTK2 based, iirc |
| 01:56.07 | temp_work | JeffM, the response to anomaly's GTK BZAdmin makes me think there is a want for a better BZAdmin |
| 01:56.07 | JeffM | is the client in observer mode not a bzadmin gui? |
| 01:56.16 | JeffM | what advantages will your gui have over that? |
| 01:56.25 | Happy_Alice | jeffM: i have read the post of anomoly about his gbzadmin. Reactions were very good |
| 01:56.30 | JeffM | ok |
| 01:56.35 | JeffM | I'm just trying to see if you have a plan |
| 01:57.02 | JeffM | what platforms are you looking at supporting that GTK dosn't? |
| 01:57.15 | Think_Differentl | the advantage to me it seems is that you don't have to run the actual game. you can have the console, and your functions without having to enter the actual game and watch tanks blow eachother to pieces |
| 01:57.35 | Happy_Alice | Think_differentl: yes it is gtk. My idea was to port it to java (becasue i thought it would be portable) |
| 01:57.37 | spldart | don't see the need |
| 01:57.40 | JeffM | ok so 1) simpler visual interface |
| 01:58.03 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, again, what platforms do you want to run on that you will use that java portabliltiy? |
| 01:58.17 | Happy_Alice | JeffM: Windows, OSX, Linux |
| 01:58.29 | JeffM | IIRC GTK runs fine on those |
| 01:58.34 | blast007 | Qt or GTK might support even more |
| 01:58.37 | Think_Differentl | and i guess having clickable buttons to do common tasks (like ban/kick/ops) is another advantage |
| 01:58.41 | JeffM | I've know that I've built GTK aps on windows. |
| 01:58.41 | blast007 | like mobile devices |
| 01:58.59 | Think_Differentl | i think GTK apps on OS X have to run under X11, but i might be wrong |
| 01:59.01 | trepan | or wxwidgets |
| 01:59.15 | JeffM | exactly there are many other interface libs |
| 01:59.24 | Happy_Alice | Think_differentl: is it the case for java? |
| 01:59.25 | JeffM | that run on many platforms |
| 01:59.33 | brlcad | JeffM: you have a "goto" button that writes custom editing scripts for you? |
| 01:59.39 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, yes but then you have to make a bzadmin -> java inteface |
| 02:00.09 | Happy_Alice | jeffm: and what i said ? ;-) |
| 02:00.13 | JeffM | if you just use GTK bzadmin and make it compile on those platforms, that's less work |
| 02:00.27 | JeffM | the portability you want, you can get with out java |
| 02:00.35 | JeffM | and with less complexity of a java->bzadmin interface |
| 02:00.36 | Happy_Alice | jeffm: i agree |
| 02:00.41 | JeffM | then why use java? |
| 02:00.52 | Happy_Alice | i agree |
| 02:00.53 | JeffM | you are still going to need a compiled bzadmin right? |
| 02:01.08 | JeffM | then why not just work on the gtk bzadmin and make it better? |
| 02:01.21 | Happy_Alice | well...i was thinking about rewritting completely bzadmin |
| 02:01.28 | JeffM | why? |
| 02:01.34 | JeffM | so we can have 2 to maintain? |
| 02:01.38 | purple_cow | why not?! |
| 02:01.42 | JeffM | 1 in a lanaguage we don't really know |
| 02:01.49 | Happy_Alice | becasue i figured it was too difficult to run gtk on osx |
| 02:02.04 | spldart | Would this 'adaptation' of java interface be totally free... Just asking :) |
| 02:02.05 | blast007 | isn't it even harder to get GTK on Windows? |
| 02:02.07 | JeffM | that may be, but that dosn't mean that GTK is the only GUI system you can port to |
| 02:02.12 | JeffM | blast007, naw |
| 02:02.13 | Happy_Alice | i figured gtk was for gnome application |
| 02:02.14 | a_meteorite | java bzadmin? eww |
| 02:02.15 | blast007 | (with the large number of dependencies that are required) |
| 02:02.19 | JeffM | I had a GTK app up in like 5 min |
| 02:02.25 | JeffM | blast007, they have premade packs |
| 02:02.26 | JeffM | it's cake |
| 02:02.27 | trepan | tcl/tk to the rescue! :) |
| 02:02.29 | blast007 | ah |
| 02:02.37 | blast007 | wasn't back when I was wanting to build x-chat ;) |
| 02:02.40 | JeffM | remember nn's "bzedit" |
| 02:02.45 | a_meteorite | lol |
| 02:02.47 | JeffM | it was all GTK |
| 02:03.11 | JeffM | Happy_Alice, I do not know how GTK works on the mac, but there are other C and C++ gui toolkits you could look at |
| 02:03.24 | JeffM | way before you look into redoing the entire thing |
| 02:03.37 | JeffM | but that's just MHO, you can do whatever you want |
| 02:03.40 | Happy_Alice | which one, JeffM, do u advice me? |
| 02:03.53 | JeffM | I am not a Gui Took Kit expert |
| 02:04.09 | Happy_Alice | arrrh.... |
| 02:04.11 | blast007 | Qt is an interesting one to look at (I've been playing with that one a bit recently) |
| 02:04.13 | JeffM | I would hope you would do the research yourself to understand them before you just blidly use them |
| 02:04.18 | blast007 | has some cool features |
| 02:04.29 | JeffM | again, as I have said, I personaly prefer C# |
| 02:04.44 | Think_Differentl | i think an in browser bzadmin type thing would be better than a GUI for my purposes. |
| 02:04.45 | JeffM | using the .net framework for GUI |
| 02:05.02 | JeffM | Think_Differentl, that's what webadmin is for |
| 02:05.08 | Think_Differentl | exactly |
| 02:05.11 | JeffM | use it then see what it dosn't do that you want, and FIX it |
| 02:05.36 | Think_Differentl | from what i've seen, it does everything that i want |
| 02:06.03 | blast007 | bzadmin could use some fixing. has a few issues such as going into an inf. loop if the server crashes |
| 02:06.06 | JeffM | then you have what you need, others may want a gui |
| 02:06.11 | JeffM | I dunno |
| 02:06.25 | JeffM | the big things I'd like to see is what stuff people use bzadmin for |
| 02:06.36 | JeffM | and if it's really is the best tool for it |
| 02:06.52 | JeffM | for the scripting stuff that trepan mentioned it probably is, because it's basicly a full client that you can script up |
| 02:07.01 | JeffM | and that lets you do lots of cool custom things |
| 02:07.11 | JeffM | but not everyone wants to do cool custom things |
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| 02:09.06 | blast007 | currently I use it keep track of chat/joins/kills/etc on my servers when I'm away, but I'm not sure that's a common use |
| 02:09.19 | blast007 | I know of others that use it for logging (setting the UI to stdout) |
| 02:09.24 | JeffM | so the loging sytstem it has is good for oyu |
| 02:09.28 | blast007 | or to run commands on the server in cron scripts |
| 02:09.37 | JeffM | if you need to pipe those logs then webadmin isn't cool |
| 02:09.58 | JeffM | a pipelog plugin would be cool :) |
| 02:10.00 | blast007 | right, for me, probably logDetail is better |
| 02:10.12 | JeffM | have it take a templat that defines the log and what to pipe it to |
| 02:10.19 | JeffM | then you can customise what is piped out |
| 02:10.29 | blast007 | logDetail could be modified to do that |
| 02:10.40 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:10.47 | JeffM | it's just a stupid name :) |
| 02:10.52 | JeffM | superlog! |
| 02:11.32 | blast007 | eventually I'll probably send logs via HTTP, once I get a web-based system going |
| 02:11.41 | blast007 | probably sometime around 2020 ;) |
| 02:11.47 | Happy_Alice | JeffM...C# for linux is called mono ???? |
| 02:12.08 | JeffM | mono is an implementation of the .net framework that is MS independent |
| 02:12.08 | blast007 | no |
| 02:12.18 | JeffM | it runs on linux, OSX, windows, and many other OSs |
| 02:12.31 | Happy_Alice | thank you. |
| 02:12.34 | JeffM | C# it'self is it's own language |
| 02:12.45 | JeffM | it has it's own open standards |
| 02:12.52 | JeffM | and it's own toolset |
| 02:13.05 | JeffM | it just happens to be VERY usefull when used with the .net framework |
| 02:13.21 | JeffM | so it is most often used with mono |
| 02:13.31 | Happy_Alice | ok..i see now |
| 02:13.42 | JeffM | somone could possibly say make GTK bidings for C# |
| 02:13.52 | JeffM | then you could have a C# app that used GTK and no .net stuff |
| 02:14.04 | JeffM | but that'd be a little silly |
| 02:14.07 | Happy_Alice | GTK# ? |
| 02:14.09 | JeffM | sure |
| 02:14.32 | JeffM | it'd be better to just write a GTK backend to the .net framework used in mono |
| 02:14.41 | JeffM | then you'd keep the cross platformability |
| 02:15.04 | JeffM | just like you could call a linux specific thing in java, and break the compatability thing |
| 02:15.22 | JeffM | the language you pick is not what makes it cross platform |
| 02:15.27 | JeffM | it's what you call with the language |
| 02:15.41 | JeffM | I Mean look at bzflag, it's writen in C++ and cross platform. |
| 02:17.00 | JeffM | goes home |
| 02:18.20 | Happy_Alice | now he is left...tell me: a GUI for bzadmin would be nice, wouldnt it? :-P |
| 02:18.44 | Happy_Alice | joke! |
| 02:25.52 | TJ13820 | Happy_Alice: you seem unhappy :) |
| 02:26.03 | Happy_Alice | hi Tim! why ? |
| 02:26.11 | TJ13820 | Haha, poking fun :) |
| 02:26.22 | TJ13820 | want to play 1vs 1? |
| 02:26.28 | spldart | I don't think there would be much demand.. esp if java were involved. |
| 02:26.31 | Happy_Alice | nah..i want my bed |
| 02:26.41 | TJ13820 | haha okay. Maybe tommorow. |
| 02:26.56 | Happy_Alice | TJ13820: maybe :-D |
| 02:27.22 | Happy_Alice | spldart: it nervermind :-) |
| 02:27.33 | spldart | oki doke |
| 02:28.20 | Happy_Alice | oki doke? |
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| 02:30.00 | Happy_Alice | spldart: JeffM just has saved my time :-D |
| 02:30.26 | spldart | oki doke = very well |
| 02:30.36 | Happy_Alice | oki doke ! |
| 02:30.52 | spldart | "back to the future" style |
| 02:31.21 | Happy_Alice | is it a movie? |
| 02:32.16 | spldart | ............ |
| 02:32.37 | Think_Differentl | back to the future is a movie |
| 02:33.01 | Happy_Alice | ok ty TD. I was not sue about the translation |
| 02:33.04 | temp_work | it is 3 movies |
| 02:33.16 | Happy_Alice | i see |
| 02:33.47 | Happy_Alice | i dont like them...not realisitc :-P |
| 02:33.47 | spldart | .... and globally renowned |
| 02:34.20 | Happy_Alice | who can beleive this story? travel in the time..pfffff |
| 02:34.32 | temp_work | 'oki dokie' is older than Back to the Future - that's just where spldart heard it :D |
| 02:34.43 | spldart | You wish |
| 02:34.58 | spldart | I've got sayings heard first time before many here were born ;) |
| 02:35.11 | spldart | But that's what I thought when I quoted ;) |
| 02:35.14 | temp_work | by golly! |
| 02:35.23 | spldart | gosh |
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| 03:33.45 | Djpenguin | On bzbattleground it says my host is banned, but I dont remember any offense |
| 03:34.01 | blast007 | ask the one who banned you then |
| 03:34.06 | me1 | someone using the same isp as you was probably bad |
| 03:34.08 | blast007 | or banned your host, I should say |
| 03:34.16 | Djpenguin | Host banned for: Hah. (k-lined) by Winny |
| 03:34.19 | blast007 | likely wasn't *you* that got banned |
| 03:34.25 | me1 | nub |
| 03:34.25 | blast007 | okay, ask Winny then |
| 03:34.29 | blast007 | PM him |
| 03:34.29 | me1 | you can't k-line in bzflag |
| 03:34.39 | Djpenguin | That's the message I get |
| 03:34.43 | Djpenguin | Winny: Ping |
| 03:34.46 | blast007 | ... |
| 03:35.01 | blast007 | send him a PM on the forum, so that he is sure to get it |
| 03:35.22 | blast007 | this isn't a support channel for that server. |
| 03:35.36 | me1 | he's also probably asleep |
| 03:35.49 | Djpenguin | I also have a problem with Missile War |
| 03:35.50 | me1 | and/or watching tv |
| 03:35.56 | Djpenguin | I join and there is no message that I get |
| 03:35.59 | Djpenguin | the map loads |
| 03:36.04 | blast007 | probably the same thing |
| 03:36.05 | Djpenguin | "global login approved" |
| 03:36.08 | blast007 | hostbans can be iffy like that |
| 03:36.08 | Djpenguin | no message |
| 03:36.09 | me1 | Djpenguin, your host was banned, ask winny for a whitelist |
| 03:36.21 | Djpenguin | after a while it just disconnects |
| 03:36.24 | me1 | yeah |
| 03:36.31 | blast007 | Djpenguin: like we said, you are banned there too |
| 03:36.34 | blast007 | read what we type |
| 03:36.55 | Djpenguin | That must be it, because I join from my other router (different ISP) just fine |
| 03:37.31 | me1 | if it says "host banned" it means your host was banned, like we said before... however, I'm glad you figured that out. |
| 03:37.43 | Djpenguin | ;) |
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| 03:40.13 | Winny | ..and no PM yet |
| 03:41.10 | spldart | ...quick! everyone pm winny ;) |
| 03:41.18 | spldart | j/k |
| 03:41.35 | blast007 | whoops, too late, spldart |
| 03:41.40 | spldart | wow.. |
| 03:41.43 | spldart | quick on the draw |
| 03:41.58 | spldart | File down those sites miser? |
| 03:42.07 | spldart | s/miser/mister |
| 03:42.30 | blast007 | I have a /pesterwinny command in my IRC client |
| 03:42.50 | spldart | Sshweeet... I'll need that code snippet... or whateva ;A) |
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| 05:42.48 | CIA-43 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19019 10/trunk/bzflag/tools/tankview/tankview.cpp: Add newline at EOF. |
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| 11:30.41 | *** topic/#bzflag is Topic for #bzflag is: http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || this channel is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.12 is the latest linux release, 2.0.10 for others |
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| 17:36.16 | Shaba1 | hello all |
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| 17:56.23 | Shaba1 | hello anyone use the bzflag plugin for blender with blender 2.48 and get and error when clicking the edit button? |
| 18:02.02 | blast007 | Shaba1: think I recall hearing that |
| 18:02.17 | blast007 | might want to contact the author |
| 18:02.59 | blast007 | blender or python probably changed enought that it broke |
| 18:03.08 | blast007 | enough* |
| 18:05.32 | Shaba1 | Ok |
| 18:05.44 | Shaba1 | I will try it with 2.46 or 2.47 |
| 18:07.23 | Shaba1 | thanks blast007 |
| 18:13.04 | Shaba1 | oK when playin bzflag does anyone actually type to each other? |
| 18:13.12 | Shaba1 | It seems to me the game moves too fast for that |
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| 18:25.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 18:29.58 | blast007 | Shaba1: Lots of people do |
| 18:30.13 | blast007 | some wait until they die |
| 18:30.39 | blast007 | others just learn to type while dodging ;) |
| 18:32.03 | Shaba1 | lol |
| 18:32.05 | Shaba1 | ok |
| 18:32.13 | Shaba1 | is there like a newbies server |
| 18:32.23 | Shaba1 | so that you do not get killed as soon as you spawn |
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| 18:50.15 | joevano | Shaba1: not really |
| 18:50.25 | joevano | just think of it as a lesson in dying :P |
| 18:50.39 | joevano | you learn to do that best... at first |
| 18:51.31 | joevano | one thing people recomment is using 'observer mode' to watch experienced players |
| 18:51.46 | joevano | i recommend just jumping into a game and asking questions |
| 18:52.22 | joevano | my one big tip to beginners, is to not rely on jumping to not get killed |
| 18:52.36 | joevano | on most maps first to jump = death |
| 18:53.16 | joevano | also on the talking thing, talking can be a great offensive weapon |
| 18:53.34 | joevano | get some players talking and their score plummets |
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| 19:01.13 | Shaba1 | lol |
| 19:01.17 | Shaba1 | thanks joevano |
| 19:01.30 | Shaba1 | I was thinking maybe people uses soemthing like ventrilo |
| 19:01.37 | Shaba1 | to voice chat |
| 19:02.17 | Winny | not really |
| 19:02.39 | Shaba1 | I like the simplicity of bzflag |
| 19:02.40 | Winny | about 2 league teams use it during matches, but even then they probably don't use it all the time |
| 19:02.47 | Winny | it being teamspeak |
| 19:02.55 | Shaba1 | and the low systems requirements |
| 19:03.05 | Shaba1 | so I can use it on any machine or with any bandwidth |
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| 20:57.14 | Gabe_G23 | bzflag.blah.pl:5257 |
| 20:57.15 | Gabe_G23 | Cheater |
| 20:57.21 | Gabe_G23 | + 20 observers |
| 20:57.23 | Gabe_G23 | so no /poll ban |
| 20:57.37 | Gabe_G23 | Title of map: "Map for smart and sneaky people. On 10 MBit link |
| 20:58.16 | Gabe_G23 | if anyone is here |
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| 21:55.43 | TD-Linux | ooh feature request: |
| 21:55.51 | Winny | pebkac preventer? |
| 21:55.58 | TD-Linux | only allow X votes from any IP |
| 21:56.01 | TD-Linux | and count them as such |
| 21:56.17 | TD-Linux | 2 sounds like a reasonable number |
| 21:56.57 | Gabe_G23 | Err |
| 21:56.59 | Gabe_G23 | Anyone? |
| 21:57.04 | Gabe_G23 | bzflag.blah.pl:5257 |
| 21:57.05 | Gabe_G23 | Cheater |
| 22:02.22 | TD-Linux | yeah |
| 22:02.27 | TD-Linux | all observer slots taken |
| 22:02.42 | TD-Linux | I could set up a bunch of real clients and pollban him |
| 22:02.47 | TD-Linux | I elect that everyone just leaves |
| 22:03.08 | TD-Linux | and goes on some better moderated server |
| 22:14.38 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@bzflag/player/JFTsang) |
| 22:15.42 | jftsang | Hello |
| 22:16.05 | jftsang | which libcurl does bzflag want, libcurl4-openssl-dev, or libcurl4-gnutls-dev ? |
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| 23:07.14 | blast007 | jftsang: we don't use SSL |
| 23:07.19 | blast007 | so probably doesn't matter |
| 23:08.05 | jftsang | thanks |
| 23:08.32 | jftsang | but having SSL won't hinder bzflag in some way, will it? |
| 23:08.44 | blast007 | nope, won't negatively affect it |
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