| 00:00.54 | Abominable | Hmm, I want to give people that I host perms but I don't want them to have perms at other peoples maps I host. I don't want tons of cops/admins in my group. Is there any way I can do that without /setgroup? |
| 00:01.41 | AAA_awright | Abominable: Local groups... |
| 00:02.09 | AAA_awright | -userdb |
| 00:02.54 | AAA_awright | Though, it also adds REGISTERED users and such to the file, and can grow... |
| 00:03.25 | Abominable | So I had -userdb in the conf? |
| 00:04.04 | Abominable | AAA_awright |
| 00:04.11 | AAA_awright | Abominable: -userdb <user-group file> |
| 00:06.24 | AAA_awright | Abominable: Or give them the /password |
| 00:18.17 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-0-0-cust307.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 00:26.17 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@76-10-150-36.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 00:30.38 | TD-Linux | local groups are better though |
| 00:34.38 | AAA_awright | TD-Linux: I prefer local groups too, except that bzfs writes to the user group file with each user that joins, saying they are in the EVERYONE and/or REGISTERED group |
| 00:34.55 | AAA_awright | or what is it, LOCAL.GLOBAL |
| 00:35.14 | AAA_awright | I think those built in groups shouldn't be written anywhere |
| 00:36.35 | Constitution | AAA_awright: bzfs writes to the userdb... an entirely different file |
| 00:37.01 | me1 | Constitution, you can write to it too |
| 00:37.03 | AAA_awright | I am talking about userdb... that defines what groups each user is in |
| 00:37.14 | AAA_awright | emphasis on "am" |
| 00:37.37 | me1 | you just need to format is correctly, but you can write in people |
| 00:37.42 | me1 | you just need to format is correctly, but you can write in people's groups manualy |
| 00:38.03 | TD-Linux | meh |
| 00:38.06 | AHA | whoever put the ' key next to the Enter key is a complete moron |
| 00:38.18 | TD-Linux | write the file with a script |
| 00:38.24 | TD-Linux | the user spamming shouldn't matter |
| 00:40.42 | AAA_awright | AHA: I couldn' |
| 00:40.50 | AAA_awright | t agree more |
| 00:41.13 | AHA | lol :P |
| 00:41.29 | AHA | you usually hit the enter key before you hit the ' key |
| 00:41.32 | AHA | but nice try :) |
| 00:43.31 | Erroneous | which key would you have preferred next to the enter key/ |
| 00:43.45 | CBG | Shift? |
| 00:45.25 | AHA | thats even worse |
| 00:45.30 | AHA | Hello, my name is |
| 00:45.31 | AHA | oh |
| 00:45.32 | AHA | crap |
| 00:45.39 | AHA | hit shift instead of enter! |
| 00:45.41 | AHA | :P |
| 00:46.27 | CBG | Funny name... "Oh Crap". |
| 00:46.39 | AHA | the \ key would be better |
| 00:46.40 | AHA | less used |
| 00:46.46 | AHA | well |
| 00:46.54 | AHA | then it's hard to reach the ' key |
| 00:47.05 | me1 | not really |
| 00:47.14 | AHA | maybe switch the [ and ' key |
| 00:47.56 | me1 | my not just make the enter key smaller? |
| 00:48.08 | me1 | has used a keyboard with an enter key that is smaller than a normal key. |
| 00:48.31 | Constitution | http://www.apple.com/getamac |
| 00:48.32 | CBG | The ' and Enter keys ar enot even next to each other... |
| 00:48.39 | me1 | yes they are |
| 00:48.48 | CBG | Constitution: that helps... how? |
| 00:48.49 | me1 | H J K L ; ' ENTER |
| 00:49.09 | CBG | me1: You don't have a ~/# key? |
| 00:49.26 | CBG | (or |/\ for mac) |
| 00:49.32 | me1 | that's in the top row, and it's a ~/` key |
| 00:49.51 | CBG | Ok, have fun with your weird keyboard. |
| 00:50.02 | me1 | it's normal |
| 00:51.24 | me1 | CBG, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Qwerty.svg |
| 00:51.41 | CBG | Never seen a keyboard like that. |
| 00:53.04 | AHA | thats the standard US keyboard, IIRC |
| 00:55.55 | CBG | Yep, seems so. I'm used to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#UK_and_Ireland |
| 00:59.37 | TD-Linux | we have a longer enter key |
| 01:01.23 | Think_Differentl | I can't live without the short backspace and the backslash over the enter |
| 01:01.33 | Think_Differentl | er, long backspace |
| 01:01.36 | me1 | I use http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/51/KB_United_States-NoAltGr.svg |
| 01:01.51 | me1 | it's different from standard qwerty |
| 01:04.28 | TD-Linux | I swap between US and US-International depending on what language I'm typing |
| 01:33.42 | *** join/#bzflag _Lukstr (n=Lukstr@76-10-150-36.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:39.34 | delusional | bzfscron cannot perform operations on timescales less than a minute? |
| 01:39.38 | delusional | seconds? |
| 01:48.53 | a_temp_dist | http://www.adminschoice.com/docs/crontab.htm#Crontab%20file |
| 01:49.03 | a_temp_dist | looks like that's correct |
| 01:49.30 | a_temp_dist | maybe you could try decimal point minutes |
| 01:52.06 | delusional | thanks temp, i was looking for that page |
| 01:52.18 | delusional | you are a kind and intelligent man, |
| 02:17.47 | delusional | nope cron does not resolvve seconds |
| 02:25.32 | Abominable | That's just too extensive. |
| 02:26.43 | delusional | for making a weather cron, it might be advantageous to have seconds |
| 02:27.13 | delusional | i think we'll have problems if more than one cron message is sent at the sametime |
| 02:30.50 | Abominable | True, it would even the transitions between two weathers out a lot better. |
| 02:47.52 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@76-10-180-233.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 02:53.13 | Constitution | can I have my old forum rank back? |
| 02:57.31 | *** join/#bzflag fiyawerx (n=fiyawerx@c-71-57-245-67.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:58.27 | fiyawerx | do you have to do something special to get your joystick working for bzflag? I can map buttons but it doesnt appear to pick up the x/y axis when i choose joystick as my input method |
| 02:58.55 | fiyawerx | running on archlinux with a logitech wireless wingman js |
| 03:08.51 | *** join/#bzflag _Lukstr (n=Lukstr@76-10-180-233.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 04:03.55 | *** part/#bzflag fiyawerx (n=fiyawerx@c-71-57-245-67.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 04:44.46 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@206-248-170-122.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 05:09.45 | Flash | world: ping |
| 05:11.07 | BulletCatcher | Man, do you realize how many return packets you might get from that? |
| 05:11.15 | Flash | none, apparently |
| 05:11.21 | BulletCatcher | lol |
| 05:11.35 | Flash | so how do we feel about dead code? |
| 05:12.28 | BulletCatcher | I assume that it should be removed if it is expected to stay dead. |
| 05:12.45 | Constitution | hi Flash :) |
| 05:12.49 | BulletCatcher | Sometimes dead code is merely waiting to be (re)born. |
| 05:13.13 | Flash | yeah.... at work I have a pretty strict "no dead code" policy |
| 05:13.32 | Flash | if it needs to be reborn, it can probably be re-written faster (better?) |
| 05:13.52 | BulletCatcher | I would handle that on a case-by-case basis. |
| 05:15.10 | Flash | BulletCatcher: you worked on BufferedNetworkMessage last, didn't you? |
| 05:16.04 | BulletCatcher | I don't know if I was the last one, but I did play with it awhile ago. |
| 05:17.02 | Flash | can you describe the philosophy behind it to me? |
| 05:17.41 | BulletCatcher | looks at the code to refresh his memory |
| 05:21.03 | BulletCatcher | Here is my (probably flawed) understanding of it: |
| 05:22.04 | BulletCatcher | We need to transfer state data between client and server, and BufferedNetworkMessage is the module that packs and unpacks binary data for the journey. |
| 05:22.35 | Flash | how does the NetworkMessageTransferCallback fit in? |
| 05:22.47 | Flash | it seems out of place, on the surface |
| 05:22.54 | BulletCatcher | looks closer |
| 05:24.42 | BulletCatcher | The callback seems to be the way the module is invoked as data arrives asynchronously during the game. |
| 05:25.14 | Flash | that makes sense for the receive part, the send/broadcast don't feel congruent with a "callback" |
| 05:25.55 | BulletCatcher | I think I understand your point. |
| 05:26.51 | Flash | let me poke a little harder |
| 05:27.28 | Flash | it seems that the BufferedNetworkMessage primarily exists as a buffer and a wrapper around the (un)pack functions in Pack |
| 05:27.39 | BulletCatcher | Agreed. |
| 05:27.59 | Flash | but I believe that the (un)pack logic should exist in message-specific classes that know their format (encapsulation) |
| 05:28.29 | Flash | that being the case, what value added does the BufferedNetworkMessage offer, other than a linked list of buffers? |
| 05:29.19 | BulletCatcher | BufferedNetworkMessage also provides methods for most (all?) of the primitive data types that are combined to form larger messages. |
| 05:29.46 | Flash | true; in what context would you need them (instead of the Pack equivalents)? |
| 05:31.38 | BulletCatcher | BufferedNetworkMessage is a layer on top of Pack. Are you suggesting that such a layer is unnecessary? (not being argumentative) |
| 05:31.47 | Flash | not at this time, but in an object future, yes |
| 05:31.53 | Flash | look at messages.h |
| 05:32.16 | Flash | surprisingly PlayerAddMessage has been there for some time, and it's precisely what I have in mind |
| 05:32.19 | Flash | but no on uses it |
| 05:32.26 | BulletCatcher | huh |
| 05:33.05 | Flash | in my implementation, though, there are two signatures for the ctor |
| 05:33.29 | Flash | PlayerAddMessage(void* buf) and PlayerAddMessage(int playerId, int team, int type, ...) |
| 05:33.47 | Flash | the first unpacks from the buffer and the second just populates the members |
| 05:33.59 | Flash | (I'd still explicitly pack) |
| 05:35.33 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT` (i=etangent@inge069019.halls.colostate.edu) |
| 05:35.48 | Flash | I started down that path on my branch: http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/branches/v2_99_net_branch/include/Protocol.h?revision=18029&view=markup |
| 05:36.37 | BulletCatcher | With the void* it seems like you may be using more of a C style than a C++ style. |
| 05:36.52 | BulletCatcher | looks at the web page |
| 05:36.55 | Flash | true, but that's what the (un)pack functions use |
| 05:37.34 | *** join/#bzflag Abominable (n=chatzill@user-0ce2hv1.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 05:39.45 | *** join/#bzflag Abominable_ (n=chatzill@user-0ce2hv1.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 05:39.49 | Flash | for now, my discussion is esoteric |
| 05:39.50 | BulletCatcher | There are only so many ways to do the low-level bit-twiddling required to build network packets. I woudn't worry too much about it. |
| 05:40.12 | Flash | it's on my mind though, because my first attempt to extend a network message failed miserable |
| 05:40.18 | Flash | y |
| 05:40.46 | Flash | the pack/unpack logic is scattered in so many places, it's inevitable to get it wrong somewhere |
| 05:41.11 | BulletCatcher | No argument from me on that. |
| 05:41.26 | Flash | and I've proven it ;-) |
| 05:41.44 | Flash | it's too big to bite off now, but I keep churning it in my head |
| 05:41.57 | BulletCatcher | I think we are all hoping you can make sense of the whole mess and produce something better. |
| 05:42.33 | BulletCatcher | sympathizes |
| 05:42.55 | Flash | anyway, there's a method in GameKeeper::Player that populates a PlayerAddMessage, but no place that actually constructs or consumes one |
| 05:43.08 | Flash | so I was thinking about removing it, to reduce clutter |
| 05:43.53 | BulletCatcher | Get rid if it if it will help. We can always pull it back out of the repository if needed. |
| 05:44.16 | Flash | help is a strong statement. It just gives me the illusion of progress ;-) |
| 05:44.55 | BulletCatcher | If it is an obstacle, make it go away and you will indeed have progressed. |
| 05:45.30 | BulletCatcher | (okay, we have definitely become philosophical now) |
| 05:47.51 | BulletCatcher | If one of your goals is to make the code smaller and more elegant (and it sounds like it is), then chopping out unused parts should be standard procedure. |
| 06:00.18 | Flash | is there any issues with changing structures in the API? are they separately versioned? |
| 06:02.50 | blast007 | Flash: 2.0.x or 2.99.x? |
| 06:03.00 | Flash | 2.99 |
| 06:03.17 | BulletCatcher | bzfsAPI is strictly server-side. Just be sure to make any needed changes to all of the plugins if you do something incompatible. |
| 06:03.50 | Flash | so plugins are basically versioned with the server |
| 06:04.00 | BulletCatcher | That is my understanding. |
| 06:06.35 | blast007 | 2.0.x has an API version number |
| 06:06.43 | blast007 | iirc |
| 06:07.04 | Flash | I had been thoroughly convinced the 2.0.x development was done |
| 06:08.02 | blast007 | I had thought that 2.99.x was going to version the functions and structures themself, but I'm not seeing that now |
| 06:08.09 | blast007 | so it might be the same as 2.0.x |
| 06:08.27 | Flash | I'll leave that open for now |
| 06:08.36 | BulletCatcher | There it is: BZ_API_VERSION is defined in include/bzfsAPI.h. |
| 06:08.39 | BulletCatcher | It is 1. |
| 06:08.42 | BulletCatcher | :-) |
| 06:08.47 | blast007 | heh |
| 06:09.26 | BulletCatcher | 1 in trunk, 16 in 2.0.x. |
| 06:09.27 | blast007 | wonder how that works... 2.0.x has that at 16 |
| 06:10.02 | Flash | maybe each major release starts over? |
| 06:10.16 | blast007 | well, there's no pattern for that ;) |
| 06:10.24 | blast007 | 2.0.x was the first to have plugins |
| 06:10.36 | Flash | how many major releases have there been? 2 prior? |
| 06:10.44 | blast007 | and it was added part way through the 2.0.x version |
| 06:10.49 | BulletCatcher | My guess is that it *ought* to have been incremented many times in trunk, but until we do a release it isn't very important. |
| 06:10.52 | Flash | version 1: no plugins. version 2: plugins |
| 06:11.00 | blast007 | 1.7, 1.10, 2.0.x |
| 06:11.11 | blast007 | 2.0.0 didn't have plugins, for sure |
| 06:11.59 | blast007 | ah, 2.0.4 was the first to have plugins |
| 06:12.35 | BulletCatcher | I suspect that the version number is simply a debugging aid to make old plugins clearly fail with newer servers, rather than mysteriously failing. |
| 06:12.50 | blast007 | no, it was so that servers didn't crash |
| 06:13.00 | BulletCatcher | That too. |
| 06:14.12 | blast007 | basically, if stuff was added, I don't think it needed to be incremented |
| 06:14.33 | blast007 | but if structures were changed, then it should be, as old plugins expected the old structure |
| 06:15.29 | blast007 | but stuff like new functions, and new structures are okay (and maybe even adding new items to structures or changing the inner workings of a function) |
| 06:15.43 | blast007 | not really sure how that all works ;) |
| 06:16.08 | blast007 | so I usually asked Jeff before changes like that |
| 06:16.29 | BulletCatcher | Yeah, he seems to be the expert on the API. |
| 06:16.31 | BulletCatcher | Internal version numbers like this are cheap, so increment if there is any doubt. |
| 06:17.07 | blast007 | I think for the dev stuff, we don't care |
| 06:17.14 | blast007 | once release, then yeah, we want to |
| 06:21.06 | BulletCatcher | Sheesh. I can't find any code in trunk that checks the API version. Maybe it Just Doesn't Matter. |
| 06:25.27 | blast007 | well, I'm pretty sure that for a while, plugin functions/structures had stuff like 'v1' in them for their version |
| 06:25.46 | blast007 | maybe that was rolled back out, and the old check wasn't put back in right |
| 06:28.13 | BulletCatcher | Found one in plugins/python/python.cpp, which expects BZ_API_VERSION to be 5. (!) |
| 06:28.30 | blast007 | heh |
| 06:28.59 | BulletCatcher | Also, src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx does a couple of direct comparisons to BZ_API_VERSION rather than calling bz_APIVersion(). |
| 06:29.11 | BulletCatcher | So maybe it isn't totally worthless. |
| 06:37.52 | BulletCatcher | Okay, each plugin knows the BZ_API_VERSION it was compiled with, and bzfs refuses to load a plugin with a higher number than its own. |
| 06:38.13 | Flash | what about a lower number? |
| 06:38.33 | BulletCatcher | bzfs accepts that |
| 06:39.27 | BulletCatcher | The check is in src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx . |
| 06:40.38 | BulletCatcher | Wait. There are two separate checks. |
| 06:40.48 | BulletCatcher | The second one rejects lower versions. |
| 06:40.59 | Flash | that makes me feel better |
| 06:45.55 | BulletCatcher | Oh, no. There is an #ifdef _WIN32. |
| 06:45.58 | BulletCatcher | On Windows bzfs rejects plugins with higher version numbers, but on other systems bzfs rejects plugins with lower version numbers. |
| 06:46.10 | BulletCatcher | Argh. |
| 06:46.30 | blast007 | that seems odd |
| 06:47.03 | BulletCatcher | See the two definitions of load1Plugin() in bzfsPlugins.cxx . |
| 06:55.08 | blast007 | ah, no, they both do the same thing |
| 06:55.24 | blast007 | one says the plugin expects an older version, and to upgrade the plugin |
| 06:56.08 | blast007 | hrm, maybe not... that's confusing what it's trying to do there |
| 06:56.16 | BulletCatcher | yup |
| 06:56.37 | BulletCatcher | confusing |
| 06:57.21 | blast007 | yeah, I have no idea why they are different |
| 06:57.35 | blast007 | I would think you would need the EXACT same API version anyway |
| 06:59.01 | BulletCatcher | I agree. We should consult with JeffM when he is awake. |
| 07:17.05 | BulletCatcher | Ha. In 2.0.x both implementations merely reject plugin versions that are older than the bzfs version. |
| 07:18.05 | Flash | bah. svn is down |
| 07:18.53 | BulletCatcher | I'll take that as an excuse to sleep. 'night. |
| 07:22.51 | Flash | sleeps too |
| 07:44.23 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-219.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 09:39.48 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 09:39.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 11:20.32 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@about/apple/macbook/whodaman-) |
| 11:52.17 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@212.119.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 11:57.21 | *** join/#bzflag _Lukstr (n=Lukstr@206-248-134-91.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 12:25.51 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@206-248-134-91.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 12:32.06 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg (n=Default@98.105.7.114) |
| 12:38.48 | *** join/#bzflag nn64 (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 13:36.21 | *** join/#bzflag nn64 (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 13:36.26 | CIA-50 | BZFlag: 03jwmelto * r18504 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (GameKeeper.cxx GameKeeper.h): remove unused methods |
| 13:47.52 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@adsl-70-240-225-124.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 13:47.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 14:33.02 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep) |
| 14:41.04 | *** part/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kemhof@75.144.224.155) |
| 14:41.56 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-49 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 14:48.47 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kemhof@75.144.224.155) |
| 15:09.24 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 15:09.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 15:16.20 | JeffM2501 | blast007, you do know that there are new shots in the non experimental modes too right? |
| 15:16.38 | blast007 | oh? |
| 15:16.48 | JeffM2501 | trepan added them |
| 15:16.59 | blast007 | thought that non-experimental didn't have the 3D ones |
| 15:17.01 | JeffM2501 | they get longer with the shot length |
| 15:17.08 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't |
| 15:17.12 | JeffM2501 | trepans shots are 2d |
| 15:17.14 | JeffM2501 | but new |
| 15:17.17 | blast007 | ah |
| 15:17.21 | JeffM2501 | there are 3 shot types now |
| 15:17.26 | JeffM2501 | old, |
| 15:17.35 | JeffM2501 | trepan fancy billboards, and geobolt |
| 15:17.44 | JeffM2501 | old happens if the shot len is set to 0 |
| 15:17.48 | blast007 | hmm |
| 15:19.15 | blast007 | where is the shot length set? |
| 15:19.25 | blast007 | I'm still seeing the old bullets at 'high' quality |
| 15:19.52 | JeffM2501 | there is a menu item for it in the effects menu IIRC |
| 15:20.00 | JeffM2501 | it's a slider |
| 15:21.24 | blast007 | yeah |
| 15:21.52 | blast007 | okay... so why do we have three modes now? |
| 15:22.10 | blast007 | almost seems like we should have a "shot style" selector now |
| 15:22.22 | *** join/#bzflag temp_dist (n=temp_dis@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 15:22.46 | JeffM2501 | because people (tm) just add stuff the way they see fit |
| 15:23.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah I don't think we should have that many |
| 15:23.13 | JeffM2501 | ether go with treapns or geobolt |
| 15:23.16 | JeffM2501 | but not both |
| 15:23.31 | JeffM2501 | his are faster |
| 15:25.33 | blast007 | at a quick glance, I prefer the trepan's missile, at the least |
| 15:25.38 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 15:25.46 | JeffM2501 | then pull geobolt |
| 15:26.00 | JeffM2501 | or we take a poll |
| 15:43.54 | TheRedBaron | wants to hear some speeches from the two bullet candidates before he votes |
| 15:44.16 | JeffM2501 | riiiiggghhhhhtttt |
| 15:44.19 | JeffM2501 | just pull geobolt |
| 15:44.36 | JeffM2501 | or maybe only apply it to laser |
| 15:45.07 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: communist ! |
| 15:45.20 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, noone ever said bzflag was a democracy |
| 15:45.47 | JeffM2501 | says the man who takes his nic from someone who fought for a monarchy ;) |
| 15:45.53 | TheRedBaron | :P |
| 15:46.00 | JeffM2501 | how's france doing these days? |
| 15:46.52 | TheRedBaron | if you pass them enough wine - they'll forgive anything ;) |
| 15:47.20 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) |
| 15:47.35 | JeffM2501 | so you have to invade california and australia to get the good wine? |
| 15:48.19 | TheRedBaron | i'd make some remarks as to the benefits of pillaging california - but if my memory serves me correctly - you're from that region :) |
| 15:48.35 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 15:54.46 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-49 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 15:56.35 | BulletCatcher | I don't see the harm in keeping all of the shot styles. |
| 15:56.53 | CBG | You're Not Looking!! |
| 15:57.08 | TheRedBaron | quickly looks |
| 15:57.39 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher, it's a bit confusing |
| 15:57.48 | JeffM2501 | I like the idea of using geolaser only |
| 15:59.08 | BulletCatcher | I didn't try laser with the new styles, but for regular bullets they seem fine. |
| 16:01.05 | BulletCatcher | We have so many other options. One more doesn't seem to put us over the top. |
| 16:01.34 | JeffM2501 | I would like to start having less of them, specialy when it comes to the visual style |
| 16:01.52 | BulletCatcher | Why? |
| 16:01.54 | JeffM2501 | I'd like the visual style to be more map centric then end user specifics |
| 16:02.01 | BulletCatcher | Ah. |
| 16:02.03 | JeffM2501 | so that we can get some cohesion as a game |
| 16:02.24 | JeffM2501 | and yeah let the map makers go and set up the visuals to fit the style of the map |
| 16:02.37 | *** join/#bzflag nn64 (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 16:02.37 | JeffM2501 | fog is a great example |
| 16:02.41 | JeffM2501 | we let people turn it off |
| 16:02.48 | BulletCatcher | So, make the shot style a server option rather than a display option? |
| 16:02.51 | JeffM2501 | but that means map makers can't use it for gameplay effects. |
| 16:03.03 | JeffM2501 | well I don't like geobolt for GM, never have |
| 16:03.28 | JeffM2501 | and trepans look better for GM and normal shot, so may as well just use geo for the laser |
| 16:03.34 | JeffM2501 | as I do belive our old laser is SUCK |
| 16:03.39 | JeffM2501 | and I' |
| 16:03.44 | JeffM2501 | I'd just make it do it in all modes |
| 16:03.58 | JeffM2501 | then we get a nice consistent view |
| 16:04.10 | JeffM2501 | it will always "look" like bzflag and have a visual identity |
| 16:06.43 | BulletCatcher | Is there any current danger that the look and feel of BZFlag will be confused with some other game? |
| 16:07.10 | JeffM2501 | no, but I feel it is not self cosistent, our art and visual styles are all over the place, visualy |
| 16:07.51 | BulletCatcher | Well, that seems to be what some people want. That's what happens with open source. |
| 16:08.08 | JeffM2501 | I don't belive it has to be that way |
| 16:08.18 | JeffM2501 | I agree that is the reason it IS that way |
| 16:08.27 | JeffM2501 | but I don't think that is the only way you can do a game |
| 16:10.20 | BulletCatcher | The real question seems to be: what kind of game do we want it to be? (And just who is "we", anyway?) |
| 16:10.58 | donny_baker | "we" is the developers, and a consistent look and feel across all clients goes a long way |
| 16:11.57 | JeffM2501 | our entire art system sucks |
| 16:14.05 | TheRedBaron | donny_baker: consistent in what way? |
| 16:14.25 | TheRedBaron | in my experience - BZ is one of the most customizable games out there - when it comes to look and feel. |
| 16:14.39 | TheRedBaron | especially for a FPS |
| 16:15.46 | BulletCatcher | I honestly don't know how I feel about that personally, but I am sure some people like that about BZFlag. |
| 16:16.18 | TheRedBaron | the direct connection/portal to the rest of the game - IE Radar & HUD is massively flexible and configurable. This is not like some other FPS where you can change key mapping and colors. The changes we permit have a noticeable impact on playing style and game play. |
| 16:18.36 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, except it's not, you can only chanbge some stuff and the map can do others, etc.. it's not consisent |
| 16:19.04 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: 'except its not' - what? |
| 16:19.11 | TheRedBaron | as in not consistent ? |
| 16:20.02 | TheRedBaron | IMHO you're comparing apples to oranges. The end client configuration vs the server configuration |
| 16:20.59 | BulletCatcher | Why does it have to be more consistent? BZFlag's quirks are part of its appeal, making it much more than a bland shoot-em-up. |
| 16:23.46 | BulletCatcher | BZFlag has many aspects to explore and learn about: maps, map making, server operation, playing skill, client configuration, code development, etc. These things all help keep it interesting. |
| 16:28.00 | *** join/#bzflag roboter5a (n=roboter5@dslb-088-074-114-197.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:28.01 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, customisable |
| 16:28.30 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher, because I feel that our overall "Hapharzardness" is what makes us look like a joke when compared to other games |
| 16:28.48 | JeffM2501 | I belive that open source games can be treated with the same level of quality as comercial games. |
| 16:28.56 | JeffM2501 | and we do not have that level of quality |
| 16:29.08 | JeffM2501 | sure I belive we are more fun then other free games. |
| 16:29.25 | JeffM2501 | but we in no way come close to other games from closed source houses, free or not. |
| 16:29.42 | JeffM2501 | and I think our goal should be to compete with those things AS an open source game |
| 16:29.49 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: I understand how you want to compete, but i think you've got the wrong platform/game. |
| 16:29.58 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, possibly |
| 16:30.11 | TheRedBaron | tanks shoot other tanks - with very strange physics (or lack thereof) |
| 16:30.26 | JeffM2501 | that still isn't an excuse for us to slack on quality and end user consitency |
| 16:30.34 | JeffM2501 | the game is not easy to pick up for a new user |
| 16:30.42 | JeffM2501 | we do very little to help them learn for example |
| 16:30.55 | JeffM2501 | we tend to take the "well you should just be smart and know" route |
| 16:31.03 | TheRedBaron | I"m not saying it is - what I am saying is, it feels like your trying to teach a pig to sing. Its a waste of time and it annoys the pig :) |
| 16:31.03 | JeffM2501 | very open source attitude |
| 16:31.16 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, I don't think it's a pig |
| 16:31.39 | JeffM2501 | sure it's not a tank simulator, but nether is bubble trouble, but it's a slicker game then we are |
| 16:31.52 | TheRedBaron | hasn't even heard of bubble trouble |
| 16:31.59 | JeffM2501 | bzflag HAS an entertaining game mechanic |
| 16:32.01 | JeffM2501 | that's for sure |
| 16:32.05 | JeffM2501 | or you all would not be playing it |
| 16:32.23 | JeffM2501 | there is a market for simplistic stylised games |
| 16:32.30 | JeffM2501 | they are actualy VERY popular |
| 16:32.43 | JeffM2501 | I think we could do better then we do now |
| 16:32.51 | JeffM2501 | do I think we'll go toe to toe with quake 7? no |
| 16:33.15 | JeffM2501 | but I'd like someone who does play comerical games to be able to look at bzflag, and not laugh |
| 16:33.26 | JeffM2501 | I mean look at the very first thing when we start up |
| 16:33.41 | JeffM2501 | we have the OS cursor over a big text button that says "join game" |
| 16:33.53 | JeffM2501 | instinct says "kick the text" |
| 16:33.59 | TheRedBaron | is laughing at bubble trouble |
| 16:34.01 | JeffM2501 | yet that does nothing |
| 16:34.22 | JeffM2501 | click even :)( |
| 16:34.33 | JeffM2501 | it's a sittly arcade/puzzle game |
| 16:34.36 | JeffM2501 | where you shoot bubbles |
| 16:34.46 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: the "join game" example is not a customizable feature. Thats more of an example of poor UI design |
| 16:35.04 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, it's an example of incosnistency |
| 16:35.07 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: yea - just found it - it reminds me of the games my younger sisters play |
| 16:35.10 | JeffM2501 | with expected behavors |
| 16:35.16 | JeffM2501 | as for customisation |
| 16:35.18 | donny_baker | take turning off fog, as jeff mentioned |
| 16:35.24 | donny_baker | nmakes fog useless |
| 16:35.28 | JeffM2501 | you can customse some textures on some maps, but not others |
| 16:35.40 | JeffM2501 | I can change the ground texture |
| 16:35.47 | JeffM2501 | but not the texture on a mesh, etc.. |
| 16:35.52 | JeffM2501 | it's inconsistent |
| 16:36.08 | TheRedBaron | donny_baker: turning off fog is for crappy hardware |
| 16:36.12 | JeffM2501 | if we want to do user custmisation we need to decide what they can customsie and how, and make it easy. |
| 16:36.20 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, yes but it HAS gameplay effect |
| 16:36.38 | JeffM2501 | if we want fog as a gameplay effect, we should no longer support that crapy hardware. |
| 16:36.43 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: yes - same way with FEAR. |
| 16:37.09 | JeffM2501 | pesonaly I'd only allow 2 types of customisation, UI and tank avatar |
| 16:37.13 | JeffM2501 | the rest should be up to the map |
| 16:37.23 | TheRedBaron | I actually have an advantage playing on my 5700fx - in that the graphics are so poor - they can't do real-time lighting, and i can see an areas that are typically pitch black/poorly lit |
| 16:37.42 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, exactly, that changes gameplay |
| 16:38.04 | TheRedBaron | correct, but thats a hardware induced change. Thats not a user induced change |
| 16:38.09 | JeffM2501 | in a competitive system that can cause issues. |
| 16:38.17 | TheRedBaron | like using a large radar |
| 16:39.15 | JeffM2501 | the core problem I have is one that BulletCatcher brought up, we don't know what kind of game we want, or even who that we is. We have no game designer, and it shows |
| 16:39.17 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: it seems to me that when you start touting consistency - you're steam rolling over the customization-ability of bzflag (yes i made up that word) |
| 16:39.31 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, it's a ballance |
| 16:39.37 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: its open source. |
| 16:39.39 | JeffM2501 | you decide what you allow to be customised and what you don't |
| 16:39.48 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, so, tha'ts just a license |
| 16:39.57 | JeffM2501 | all THAT statement means is that others can use it |
| 16:40.06 | TheRedBaron | in plain black and white - yes. |
| 16:40.23 | JeffM2501 | look at firefox, it has a roadmap, you can not go and add whatever feature you want to it and expect it to be put into the mainline |
| 16:40.50 | JeffM2501 | if you went and implemented a spreadsheet in FF, it would not fit because the project designers of it would not allow it |
| 16:40.55 | JeffM2501 | it has a guiding plan |
| 16:40.57 | JeffM2501 | we do not |
| 16:41.32 | TheRedBaron | I'm not saying it can't be done . I'm saying its open source and thereby there are some road blocks specific to open source that one must use creative measures to navigate around |
| 16:41.47 | JeffM2501 | I think tha'ts the core problem with open source games is that everyone assumes they are unamanged, when they do not have to be. |
| 16:41.59 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, and I say you are wrong. |
| 16:42.06 | JeffM2501 | that's just current convention |
| 16:42.30 | TheRedBaron | slaps JeffM2501 |
| 16:42.34 | JeffM2501 | OS should have no more dificultiy in development then any other software project |
| 16:42.35 | TheRedBaron | I can't be wrong! :P |
| 16:42.42 | JeffM2501 | in fact it should have LESS dificulty |
| 16:43.15 | JeffM2501 | the concept that open source dev is somehow inheretly harder or flawed from closed source is what drags everyone down. |
| 16:43.26 | TheRedBaron | that sounds too much like: should have, could have, would have |
| 16:43.54 | JeffM2501 | yet in the application side there are MANY good appliations that are developed in the closed source style, but are open source. FF, subverson, etc.. |
| 16:44.05 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, BZ was never made to be open source. |
| 16:44.25 | JeffM2501 | and it's maintiner dosn't realy want to do any management or design IMHO |
| 16:44.30 | JeffM2501 | and that is the core problem. |
| 16:44.34 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: I'm not saying they are. But you can't tell me that open source projects and close source projects follow the same manner/guideline during development. and now I"M not speaking of best practices. I'm more referring to the politics of the project |
| 16:44.41 | JeffM2501 | so in that respect, you are correct. that is the pig that won't sing, not the code |
| 16:44.53 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, many do |
| 16:45.17 | JeffM2501 | the development methodology is not tied to the license |
| 16:45.32 | JeffM2501 | there are closed sources projects that work in a very freeform "do what you want" method |
| 16:45.48 | JeffM2501 | and ones that work on a very strict design |
| 16:46.02 | JeffM2501 | it really all depends on how the owner of it manages it |
| 16:46.11 | JeffM2501 | as even open source code HAS an owner |
| 16:46.25 | JeffM2501 | that owner just lets others use/see the code |
| 16:46.35 | JeffM2501 | but that does not mean they have to accept back all changes. |
| 16:47.30 | JeffM2501 | so yes, I think we have too many user options in some area's and not enough in others. |
| 16:48.23 | JeffM2501 | fog, weather, shots, and game elements should not be options, but UI and your player's visual appearance should be |
| 16:48.39 | TheRedBaron | not even for hardware purposes? |
| 16:48.42 | JeffM2501 | basicly the concept of "you can change your tank, but not the world" |
| 16:49.01 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, I think we need to find a ballance for what level of hardware need to support the gameplay features we want |
| 16:49.08 | JeffM2501 | if that means requiing fog hardware, then so be it |
| 16:50.49 | TheRedBaron | my hardware can live with that :) |
| 16:52.21 | JeffM2501 | I don't belive we should go overly agressive tho |
| 16:52.33 | JeffM2501 | but yeah, I say we ditch software support. |
| 16:52.50 | JeffM2501 | it IS the 21st century |
| 16:55.13 | TheRedBaron | agrees |
| 16:56.02 | JeffM2501 | I also think that some level of customsiablity can be simply pushed back to client mods/ derived project |
| 16:56.11 | JeffM2501 | make bzflag more like a game framework |
| 16:56.31 | JeffM2501 | and then people that want other stuff can go and make client/game mods and use those as kinda "sub projects" |
| 16:56.51 | JeffM2501 | but keep the default bzflag game clean and consistent |
| 16:58.52 | JeffM2501 | that part actualy leverages the power of open source, as not only is it a game, but it's a codebase for new development, even if that development it outside origonal game design |
| 16:59.16 | BulletCatcher | Simply moving some of the options (e.g., shot style) from client-controlled to server control seems like the easiest way to achieve both goals. |
| 16:59.41 | JeffM2501 | possibly |
| 17:00.01 | JeffM2501 | I'm not that enamored with geobolt for non laser tho |
| 17:00.07 | JeffM2501 | so I just don't think many people will do it |
| 17:00.16 | JeffM2501 | trepans shots look better |
| 17:00.34 | JeffM2501 | an option that is never used, is simply extra code to maintain |
| 17:01.10 | BulletCatcher | But it is too early to know how popular the new options will be. |
| 17:01.17 | JeffM2501 | possibly |
| 17:03.09 | BulletCatcher | And if we insist that new features be properly modularized, maintaining them (or not) shouldn't be too difficult. |
| 17:04.36 | JeffM2501 | well that's the kicker, insisting on things, that's never been done before. |
| 17:04.54 | JeffM2501 | making the shots modular is not trivial |
| 17:05.00 | JeffM2501 | but perhaps |
| 17:06.11 | BulletCatcher | Eventually we'll be motivated to rewrite the whole thing from scratch. The fun will begin anew. :-) |
| 17:06.25 | JeffM2501 | doubtfull |
| 17:06.30 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 17:06.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 17:06.42 | JeffM2501 | at that point there will simply be a new project and bzflag will just loose developers |
| 17:07.02 | JeffM2501 | I do not forsee Tim motivating a rewrite. |
| 17:09.12 | TheRedBaron | or port the game to another engine ? |
| 17:09.23 | TheRedBaron | like tupone's work? |
| 17:09.48 | JeffM2501 | that would only happen if a large group of devs got behind it and pushed |
| 17:09.55 | JeffM2501 | as it is nearly a rewrite |
| 17:12.36 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.163.16.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 17:17.53 | JeffM2501 | mostly I just know that in 14 years, all this has come up before, and nothing has happend in that time. so that leads be to doubt anything will just magicaly happen on it's own in the furture |
| 17:18.03 | JeffM2501 | there will need to be some driving force, ether event or person. |
| 17:19.30 | TheRedBaron | gets his whip |
| 17:20.07 | donny_baker | sprinkles magic dust on bzflag |
| 17:20.10 | *** join/#bzflag roboter5a (n=roboter5@dslb-088-074-114-197.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:21.45 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@adsl-70-240-251-91.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 17:21.45 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 17:24.24 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 17:56.04 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@nat/sun/x-37ae8fd875d656ac) |
| 18:17.09 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) |
| 18:20.50 | TheRedBaron | poor Manu :( |
| 18:21.04 | Manu | hehe |
| 18:22.00 | *** join/#bzflag nn64 (n=nn@c-24-127-152-55.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 18:23.23 | *** join/#bzflag Valumzie (n=kemhof@sbs.marknetgroup.com) |
| 18:23.39 | Valumzie | Manu! Come back! |
| 18:23.40 | Valumzie | :) |
| 18:23.46 | Valumzie | goes hide in her corner now |
| 18:42.55 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 18:42.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 18:52.25 | JeffM2501 | SpazzyMcGee, a plugin can not just call any / command, just FYI |
| 18:52.49 | SpazzyMcGee | Oh, okay |
| 18:52.53 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 18:53.52 | Legoguy_ | well thatâs dissapointing, profont that i made for bzflag was removed from svn :< |
| 18:54.00 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:54.10 | JeffM2501 | it can not be distributed under the bzflag license |
| 18:54.16 | Legoguy_ | oh |
| 18:54.17 | JeffM2501 | it should have never bene put into bzflag |
| 18:54.28 | Legoguy_ | did you get some kind of complaint? |
| 18:54.33 | JeffM2501 | debian |
| 18:54.39 | JeffM2501 | we had to change all our fonts |
| 18:54.41 | Legoguy_ | really. :| |
| 18:54.43 | Legoguy_ | wow |
| 18:54.47 | JeffM2501 | yep |
| 18:55.10 | JeffM2501 | you can't skirt around software copyright, not when you expect people to take your own copyright and license seriously |
| 18:55.28 | Legoguy_ | is profont still in 2.0.10/12? |
| 18:55.36 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:55.40 | JeffM2501 | as we can't go back in time |
| 18:55.46 | Legoguy_ | *copies for personal use* |
| 18:56.23 | JeffM2501 | personal use != redistrobution under the LGPL ;) |
| 18:56.30 | JeffM2501 | since the LGPL means you can mod it |
| 18:56.38 | JeffM2501 | it is not compatable with the bzflag license |
| 18:56.58 | Legoguy_ | i see |
| 18:57.08 | JeffM2501 | people can use it sure |
| 18:57.19 | JeffM2501 | as using it on there own game is personal use |
| 18:57.26 | JeffM2501 | but we can not redistibute it |
| 19:00.52 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=david@208.69.182.150) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.52 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@whitecalf.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@nat/sun/x-37ae8fd875d656ac) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kemhof@75.144.224.155) |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag Abominable (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/abominable) |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@unaffiliated/delusional) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-98-233-35-65.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag lacrstech (n=lacrstec@209.216.196.2) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag Admirarch (n=Athelthr@87.114.27.144.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net) |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumTim (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag KyleVE (n=kyleve@unaffiliated/winny) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=joevano@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.53 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=iWinny@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 19:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag catay (n=smertens@kaiya.catay.be) |
| 19:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag Pryon (n=Pryon@www.animalcules.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag cods (n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag deprecated (n=deprecat@c-24-18-19-17.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 19:00.54 | *** mode/#bzflag [+ovo purple_cow donny_baker ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 19:00.58 | JeffM2501 | also for the 2.0.x there is some question about the legality of converting it to our format as that is not specificly allowed in the license. |
| 19:01.00 | JeffM2501 | so that could be considered a breech right there |
| 19:01.00 | JeffM2501 | use should be simpler in 3.0 as you can just use the TTF file |
| 19:01.01 | Legoguy_ | sweet |
| 19:01.22 | Legoguy_ | how is 3.0 coming, by the way? itâs been a long time since i messed with bzflag |
| 19:01.22 | JeffM2501 | meh |
| 19:01.22 | *** join/#bzflag TJ13820 (n=TJ@unaffiliated/tj13820) |
| 19:01.22 | *** join/#bzflag MindstormsKid (n=chatzill@wikipedia/MindstormsKid) |
| 19:01.48 | Legoguy_ | thatâs it eh |
| 19:01.48 | MindstormsKid | there is a cheater in cuban missile crisis |
| 19:01.48 | MindstormsKid | (not Sk3) |
| 19:01.48 | JeffM2501 | yep |
| 19:02.15 | MindstormsKid | we banned him once, but he came right back |
| 19:02.15 | MindstormsKid | :( |
| 19:02.15 | TJ13820 | Mindstormskid ban him by IP |
| 19:02.17 | MindstormsKid | how? |
| 19:02.18 | TJ13820 | Or ask a moderator |
| 19:02.22 | Legoguy_ | MindstormsKid: LEGO mindstorms? |
| 19:02.27 | MindstormsKid | yes |
| 19:02.33 | Legoguy_ | NXT? |
| 19:02.36 | MindstormsKid | yes |
| 19:02.37 | MindstormsKid | :P |
| 19:02.47 | Legoguy_ | sweet \m/ i have it too |
| 19:02.53 | MindstormsKid | TJ13820: there were no mods/admins on |
| 19:03.11 | Winny | Cuban Missile crisis? |
| 19:03.12 | MindstormsKid | Lego: hmm... would i maybe know you..? |
| 19:03.15 | MindstormsKid | yep |
| 19:03.16 | TJ13820 | Mindstormskid: use /report with the name and what you did "/poll ban /poll kick" etc. |
| 19:03.24 | JeffM2501 | MindstormsKid, servers are run by private owners |
| 19:03.27 | TJ13820 | OR go to the website of the server |
| 19:03.35 | JeffM2501 | there is on one place they are at |
| 19:03.36 | Winny | heh, interesting name |
| 19:03.44 | JeffM2501 | if it's not in the description, then do a /report |
| 19:03.58 | MindstormsKid | Winny: the server name, not the player name |
| 19:04.01 | JeffM2501 | if they don't have a good admin team, then it's not a good server to play on. |
| 19:04.07 | JeffM2501 | so play elsewhere |
| 19:04.14 | Winny | MindstormsKid: I know |
| 19:04.16 | MindstormsKid | the player was "Sledge" i think |
| 19:04.18 | MindstormsKid | ok |
| 19:04.18 | TJ13820 | /report is usually the best way to allow admins to know |
| 19:04.23 | MindstormsKid | ok ^^ |
| 19:04.31 | MindstormsKid | * ^_^ |
| 19:04.34 | MindstormsKid | brb then |
| 19:04.38 | JeffM2501 | MindstormsKid, honestly we don't care here, it's not a thing for the development channel. it's something for you and the server owner. |
| 19:04.48 | MindstormsKid | :| |
| 19:05.03 | JeffM2501 | it is not our job to admin every server |
| 19:05.24 | TJ13820 | Mindstormskid: don't take that personally, this is the development chanel. go to the forums and PM the server owner, send an email, etc. |
| 19:05.30 | MindstormsKid | gives JeffM the "grouchy" rank ^_^ |
| 19:05.32 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 19:05.39 | JeffM2501 | don't go there man |
| 19:05.40 | JeffM2501 | just don't |
| 19:06.01 | JeffM2501 | I was just trying to tell you how it works. |
| 19:06.13 | TJ13820 | Mindstormskid: It is usually easier for eveyone involved if you don't tell the name/ip in the IRC chat. It is safer and faster to PM and Email the server owner |
| 19:06.14 | MindstormsKid | ^_^ |
| 19:06.26 | MindstormsKid | ok :| |
| 19:06.26 | Legoguy_ | you should be glad he didnât break into C++ code to tell you how it works. |
| 19:06.36 | TJ13820 | ^ basically |
| 19:06.38 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 19:06.42 | MindstormsKid | :P |
| 19:07.03 | TJ13820 | JeffM2501: ;-) that was a compliment as to your C++ ability |
| 19:07.05 | JeffM2501 | files MindstormsKid under the imature child heading. |
| 19:07.21 | Legoguy_ | lmao |
| 19:07.32 | CBG | The "kid" part of the name didn't give it away? |
| 19:07.36 | TJ13820 | i give him/her credit for getting on IRC |
| 19:07.42 | TJ13820 | if he/she is a kid |
| 19:07.49 | TJ13820 | >13 |
| 19:07.52 | MindstormsKid | i am :P |
| 19:07.54 | JeffM2501 | TJ13820, you don't hang out on IRC much do you? |
| 19:07.56 | CBG | Pff. Any idiot can do that... look at Legoguy. |
| 19:08.01 | JeffM2501 | the kids LOVE the IRC |
| 19:08.06 | Legoguy | \m/ |
| 19:08.08 | MindstormsKid | yep |
| 19:08.09 | TJ13820 | JeffM2501 usually i do, but in other channels |
| 19:08.13 | TJ13820 | and servers |
| 19:08.15 | Legoguy | though iâm 20. |
| 19:08.33 | JeffM2501 | yet you still play with toys? ;) |
| 19:08.38 | Legoguy | ;) |
| 19:08.39 | TJ13820 | ooh burn |
| 19:08.40 | MindstormsKid | :O |
| 19:08.42 | CBG | I said "idiot", didn't mention age at all. ;) |
| 19:08.51 | Lukstr | \o/ I understand, but \m/ ? |
| 19:08.52 | TJ13820 | Yet, transformers are the coolest toys ever ;) |
| 19:08.56 | Legoguy | these are robotics and programming, i donât build the simple LEGO kits anymore |
| 19:09.01 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, he has long hair |
| 19:09.02 | Legoguy | only technic and mindstorms |
| 19:09.05 | Lukstr | oh dear |
| 19:09.18 | Legoguy | \m/ = rock on, or something |
| 19:09.22 | MindstormsKid | bans JeffM "legos are not toys!!!!" |
| 19:09.24 | Lukstr | oh, yeah |
| 19:09.25 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, so where are you going to go with your lib? |
| 19:09.28 | Legoguy | envision it as a hand |
| 19:09.42 | TJ13820 | likes computer toys, like usb fans and ac units |
| 19:09.57 | MindstormsKid | doesn't, too simple :P |
| 19:10.05 | CBG | prefers to spend his hard-earned cash on the actual computer. |
| 19:10.08 | Lukstr | In what sense, JeffM2501? |
| 19:10.14 | TJ13820 | or the little Mexican hat dance thing. Power it up, and it does the mexican hat dance :) |
| 19:10.16 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, like finishing it |
| 19:10.21 | TJ13820 | My teacher has them |
| 19:10.23 | Legoguy | MindstormsKid: wait until you make your own NXT bluetooth opcode handling server |
| 19:10.28 | JeffM2501 | making it you know.. work |
| 19:10.34 | Lukstr | I'd like to do that, yes |
| 19:10.36 | MindstormsKid | errhummm???! |
| 19:10.39 | JeffM2501 | how bout you lego guys take your toy chat to #bzchat ? |
| 19:10.43 | MindstormsKid | :P |
| 19:10.49 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, ok so do it |
| 19:10.51 | JeffM2501 | what's your plan? |
| 19:10.58 | Legoguy | sorry, i believe that was the end of it anyway. :P |
| 19:11.30 | a_meteorite | profont was taken out? wow |
| 19:11.37 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, yes |
| 19:11.41 | a_meteorite | are the old fonts still compatible with 2.99? |
| 19:11.46 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 19:11.52 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 19:11.56 | JeffM2501 | trunk uses TTFs |
| 19:12.20 | a_meteorite | meh, profont was the best font, imho... maybe I can find a replacement like it... at least it's ttf now |
| 19:12.32 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, just use profont |
| 19:12.40 | JeffM2501 | get the TTF and use it |
| 19:12.43 | a_meteorite | ahhh |
| 19:12.43 | JeffM2501 | we just can't distribute it |
| 19:12.47 | JeffM2501 | it's a license violation |
| 19:12.58 | a_meteorite | ah, google does show profont has a ttf |
| 19:12.59 | a_meteorite | cool |
| 19:13.06 | Lukstr | I guess my plan is to fix current errors and what-have-you, and then finish the parser to read and handle all the different types of objects, then work on making/finishing the objects and have them interact with the rest of BZ |
| 19:13.07 | JeffM2501 | it's not an open source font |
| 19:13.17 | Legoguy | a_meteorite: fav font and my creation, oh well :P |
| 19:13.29 | Legoguy | a_meteorite: what OS |
| 19:13.34 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, cool, so when you gonna do that? ;) |
| 19:13.35 | a_meteorite | Legoguy: mac |
| 19:13.38 | Legoguy | ah |
| 19:13.54 | JeffM2501 | Legoguy, all you did was run it thru the font tool, what did you create? |
| 19:13.54 | Lukstr | JeffM2501: when I find time between classes and school, I suppose |
| 19:13.57 | Legoguy | yeah i have a different, updated, tweaked version of profont if you want it |
| 19:14.10 | a_meteorite | ttf? |
| 19:14.10 | Legoguy | i made some tweaks to it in fontforge |
| 19:14.16 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 19:14.21 | a_meteorite | sure e-mail it along |
| 19:14.23 | JeffM2501 | Legoguy, that is a license violation |
| 19:14.32 | MindstormsKid | oooh |
| 19:14.36 | JeffM2501 | sure, cus we know a_meteorite likes to steal |
| 19:14.44 | MindstormsKid | calls up the FBI |
| 19:14.45 | a_meteorite | yes, I do |
| 19:14.51 | Legoguy | correct, but i asked Tobias, the guy who made ProFontWindows if i could modify it, and he granted permission |
| 19:15.03 | JeffM2501 | Legoguy, then get that as a license |
| 19:15.08 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 19:15.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v menotume] by ChanServ |
| 19:15.11 | JeffM2501 | did he say you could distribute those changes? |
| 19:15.43 | Lukstr | JeffM2501 makes valid points all around, and this really isn't the place to discuss violating licenses. Go pirate somewhere else, yar. |
| 19:16.01 | MindstormsKid | :P |
| 19:16.14 | JeffM2501 | Legoguy, cus I mean if you CAN get him to release the font under an open source compatable license we can use it |
| 19:16.17 | JeffM2501 | that's why I ask |
| 19:16.29 | JeffM2501 | the problem we had was with the license |
| 19:16.42 | JeffM2501 | get it under a CC atrib or LGPL and we are golden to include it |
| 19:16.57 | a_meteorite | CC is compatible with LGPL? |
| 19:17.00 | JeffM2501 | but if you are just talking about personal use rights he granted you, then yeah, you can't |
| 19:17.08 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, some are |
| 19:17.11 | JeffM2501 | cc atrib is |
| 19:17.13 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 19:17.16 | a_meteorite | cool |
| 19:17.21 | JeffM2501 | basicly if you can mod and reuse, etc.. |
| 19:17.39 | JeffM2501 | CC no mod, and the like are not |
| 19:17.45 | JeffM2501 | feeds |
| 19:17.53 | Legoguy | JeffM2501: iâll ask him |
| 19:18.00 | a_meteorite | downloaded the zip from http://www.tobias-jung.de/seekingprofont/ ... the readme.txt has a disclaimer very bsd-ish |
| 19:18.13 | Lukstr | JeffM2501: that 'feeds' phrase always makes me picture some sort of insectisoid alien eating babies or something. |
| 19:18.18 | a_meteorite | but nothing about licensing/redistribution/modifications |
| 19:18.33 | Lukstr | but by all means don't stop using it, it's fantastic. |
| 19:19.08 | Legoguy | heâs very open to tweaking it, some guy in the profont forum submitted a tweak with euro character etc and tobias put that one on the main distribution page |
| 19:20.29 | Legoguy | he may already consider it 100% free for modification and redistribution but iâll ask him |
| 19:20.41 | a_meteorite | please do |
| 19:20.48 | a_meteorite | I'd love to see it in mainline distribution |
| 19:22.50 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@212.119.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 19:23.20 | *** join/#bzflag sam___ (i=sam@poulet.zoy.org) |
| 19:23.56 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 19:23.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 19:24.22 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@unaffiliated/me1) |
| 19:25.05 | Legoguy | JeffM2501: if itâs public domain, would it still be available for inclusion? |
| 19:25.06 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@unaffiliated/me1) |
| 19:25.20 | a_meteorite | Legoguy: in public domain you can do anything with it, even sell it |
| 19:25.35 | a_meteorite | relicense it, anything |
| 19:27.27 | Legoguy | awesomeness |
| 19:27.34 | Legoguy | it may be pd |
| 19:27.45 | Legoguy | weâll wait for his reply before we jump to conclusions |
| 19:32.42 | Legoguy | reading the readme of the history of profont the original profont 2.2 release was changed from shareware to freeware |
| 19:32.52 | Legoguy | so⦠that doesnât mean much, but itâs better |
| 19:33.14 | Legoguy | seems everyone involved in the creation of the font had the intention of always keeping it open to contributions |
| 19:34.46 | Lukstr | Legoguy: you have an ellipsis key on your keyboard? |
| 19:35.10 | Legoguy | no, i wrote a script to convert three periods to an ellipsis |
| 19:35.43 | Legoguy | typographical correctness runs within my veins, or something like that |
| 19:36.24 | CBG | But your shift key is kaput? |
| 19:38.23 | Legoguy | Apparently not. Iâm just too lazy to use it ;) |
| 19:38.48 | Legoguy | I said typographical correctness, not grammar ;) |
| 19:39.03 | CBG | So I see. |
| 19:39.36 | KTL | cheater at norang server, looking it up |
| 19:39.55 | KTL | bzflag3.norang.ca : 5169 |
| 19:40.03 | KTL | mad city revamped |
| 19:40.08 | KTL | 'called JET5 |
| 19:41.21 | me1 | donny_baker, you norang admin? |
| 19:41.40 | donny_baker | its my server |
| 19:41.56 | me1 | oh |
| 20:15.16 | *** join/#bzflag sam___ (i=sam@poulet.zoy.org) |
| 20:16.32 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 20:16.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 20:22.36 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorit (n=a_meteor@75.15.144.114) |
| 20:35.50 | JeffM2501 | Legoguy, it would have to be relesed as actual PD |
| 20:35.52 | JeffM2501 | not just assumed |
| 20:36.04 | JeffM2501 | but yes PD has no rights |
| 20:37.48 | JeffM2501 | but profont isn't PD, as far as I can see |
| 20:37.58 | JeffM2501 | it's under it's own custom license |
| 20:38.21 | JeffM2501 | no mod, non com, and specific documentation inclusions. |
| 20:42.07 | *** join/#bzflag sam__ (i=sam@poulet.zoy.org) |
| 20:46.21 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=fatass__@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 20:50.21 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 20:51.01 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 20:51.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 20:55.21 | *** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 20:55.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 20:59.07 | SpazzyMcGee | The alpha 2.99 intel mac release doesn't run |
| 20:59.07 | SpazzyMcGee | Just bounces in the dock and dissapears |
| 20:59.23 | SpazzyMcGee | "dyld: Library not loaded: /usr/lib/libcurl.4.dylib" |
| 20:59.32 | JeffM2501 | what OS version are you on? |
| 21:00.06 | SpazzyMcGee | 10.4.11 |
| 21:00.18 | JeffM2501 | it was probably built for 10.5 |
| 21:00.44 | SpazzyMcGee | you're probably right |
| 21:00.44 | JeffM2501 | the stuff that is posted does not follow the same build and package process as what the final releases were |
| 21:00.54 | JeffM2501 | it was just someone trying to be helpful |
| 21:01.08 | SpazzyMcGee | yeah |
| 21:01.36 | JeffM2501 | when brlcad builds the official mac bins he makes sure to link to the libs that are included in the oldest release we want to support |
| 21:02.05 | JBdiGriz | Or that we are able to support |
| 21:02.10 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 21:02.26 | JeffM2501 | for 3.0 that may be 10.4 |
| 21:02.51 | JeffM2501 | we can't support 10.3 with a universal IIRC, since the universal format was added in 10.4 |
| 21:02.51 | JBdiGriz | Depending on when 3.0 is released, it may be 10.6 |
| 21:03.00 | JeffM2501 | what are they gonna call that? |
| 21:03.06 | JeffM2501 | "sabertooth?" |
| 21:03.08 | SpazzyMcGee | Snow Leopard |
| 21:03.09 | JBdiGriz | SnowLeopard |
| 21:03.12 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 21:03.21 | JeffM2501 | is it just an incremnt over leopard? |
| 21:03.45 | SpazzyMcGee | I guess because it's not really a shiny feature release, it's back end stuff |
| 21:04.00 | JBdiGriz | It depends on what you call an increment. OpenCL is quite a change, and full 64-bit support is definitely a major change. |
| 21:04.17 | JeffM2501 | just wondering why they picked a name so similar to the previous |
| 21:04.29 | JBdiGriz | It's a pretty cat. ;) |
| 21:04.39 | JeffM2501 | or are they getting thin on large cat names? :) |
| 21:04.48 | JeffM2501 | when is the liger release? |
| 21:04.53 | JBdiGriz | People wonder if they are saving Lion for the final 10.x release |
| 21:05.08 | JeffM2501 | I'd do liger for that |
| 21:05.14 | JeffM2501 | since they are usualy steril |
| 21:05.18 | JeffM2501 | and can't go on ;) |
| 21:05.20 | SpazzyMcGee | lol |
| 21:05.26 | SpazzyMcGee | Ligers are bigger too |
| 21:05.26 | JeffM2501 | sterile even |
| 21:05.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:12.53 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@ip68-6-42-246.sb.sd.cox.net) |
| 21:13.39 | *** join/#bzflag nn64 (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 21:13.47 | JBdiGriz | 10.4 is libcurl.3.dylib. 10.5 is libcurl.4.dylib. We might be able to support back to 10.3.9 with the current tools. |
| 21:14.43 | JeffM2501 | does 10.5 also have .3 lib? |
| 21:14.49 | Abominable | JeffM2501 My teleporters are not working on my map, none of the links are open or uncompleted. Do you know what the cause of this would be? |
| 21:15.09 | JBdiGriz | No, but they should be upwardly compatible. It's just a dependency in the object file. |
| 21:15.29 | JeffM2501 | Abominable, off the top of my head, using my psycic powers to read your map and setup... no |
| 21:15.41 | JBdiGriz | I take that back, it does have a .3 and a .2 lib |
| 21:15.53 | JeffM2501 | so we could link to .3 and be cool |
| 21:16.07 | JBdiGriz | Or link to .2 and be doubly cool. |
| 21:16.19 | JeffM2501 | I think that there was some bug in .2 IIRC |
| 21:16.33 | Abominable | JeffM2501 I made it with bzedit and added some Wings3D models to it. They worked fine before, now they stopped working. |
| 21:16.39 | Abominable | I exported the wigns3D models fine. |
| 21:16.42 | JBdiGriz | It's just a matter of choosing the minimum system in Xcode. |
| 21:17.07 | JeffM2501 | Abominable, then you have to figure out what you added that made it stop working, are your porters named or numberd? |
| 21:17.23 | Abominable | Yes they are. |
| 21:17.31 | JBdiGriz | If you remember the bug, we can test against it and decide whether to support 10.3.9. |
| 21:17.35 | JeffM2501 | Abominable, notice the OR in the sentace, not and |
| 21:17.54 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, IIRC you can't do a universal for 10.3 |
| 21:17.57 | JeffM2501 | as it dosn't support the format |
| 21:18.14 | Abominable | I'm saying yes they are numbered or named. |
| 21:18.23 | JeffM2501 | at least that's what brlcad said when he tried to do one when we were at the pool at the last summit |
| 21:18.31 | JeffM2501 | Abominable, what one are they? named or numbered? |
| 21:18.48 | Abominable | Some are named some are numbered. |
| 21:19.03 | JBdiGriz | I can play around with Xcode later, and see what it generates for 10.3.9. This is the most recent release. |
| 21:19.28 | JeffM2501 | Abominable, did change there order at all? |
| 21:19.34 | JeffM2501 | links that use nubmers are order dependent |
| 21:19.41 | JeffM2501 | usualy you don't mix/match names and numbers |
| 21:19.45 | JeffM2501 | it's one or the other |
| 21:19.50 | Abominable | Alright |
| 21:19.54 | JeffM2501 | if you are going to move stuff around, always use names |
| 21:20.03 | JeffM2501 | then you are 100% sure what you are linking to |
| 21:25.36 | Abominable | Thanks JeffM2501, that fixed them |
| 21:32.23 | JeffM2501 | yeah it always helps to be sure of your object names :) |
| 21:41.20 | *** join/#bzflag NTH (n=chatzill@host86-159-31-54.range86-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:44.13 | Abominable | Hmm |
| 21:44.38 | Abominable | JeffM2501 When I load it into blasts bzw tester everything works fine, when I host it they are broke again. |
| 21:44.58 | Abominable | Is this because one is using one type of bzfs and another is using another type? |
| 21:45.20 | JeffM2501 | there is more then one type of bzfs? |
| 21:45.46 | Abominable | Idk |
| 21:45.55 | JeffM2501 | there is not |
| 21:45.58 | Abominable | I was under the impression that there was. |
| 21:46.07 | JeffM2501 | it is more then likely some setting that is different |
| 21:46.15 | JeffM2501 | where would you get that idea? |
| 21:46.28 | JeffM2501 | the tester just starts bzfs.exe with options |
| 21:46.32 | Abominable | General chatter from other channels. |
| 21:46.35 | Abominable | I do missread. |
| 21:47.44 | Abominable | Would it be the conf? |
| 21:47.44 | JeffM2501 | I can't even conceive of what to "types" of server we could even write |
| 21:47.48 | JeffM2501 | yep |
| 21:47.52 | JeffM2501 | conf == options |
| 21:53.13 | SportChick | eyes brlcad |
| 21:53.51 | TheRedBaron | does a song and dance to distract SportChick and facilitate brlcad's escape |
| 21:54.22 | SportChick | ~plank TheRedBaron |
| 21:54.22 | ibot | TheRedBaron is blindfolded and pushed at sword-point to walk the plank and plunge into the depths |
| 21:55.32 | TheRedBaron | meanie :( |
| 21:55.52 | SportChick | TheRedBaron: pay up...you owe me royalties for using my word |
| 21:56.27 | TheRedBaron | ~sue SportChick |
| 21:56.28 | ibot | ACTION files 50 lawsuits in 50 states against SportChick, all in violation of Rule 11 |
| 21:56.50 | SportChick | reports TheRedBaron and ibot to the bar and has them disbarred for violating Rule 11 |
| 21:57.09 | TheRedBaron | ~rule 11 ? |
| 21:57.10 | ibot | theredbaron rules and 11 drools |
| 21:57.37 | TheRedBaron | well - thats wasn't much help :( |
| 21:58.15 | SportChick | ~rule11 |
| 22:01.15 | TheRedBaron | runs away and escapes the clutches of SportChick |
| 22:01.36 | SportChick | ~superglue TheRedBaron computer |
| 22:01.37 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a jumbo-sized container of superglue and covers TheRedBaron computer and throws him at a moving crash test vehicle |
| 22:02.40 | delusional | gets a broom and dustpan. |
| 22:02.55 | Winny | ~lart SportChick |
| 22:02.55 | ibot | decapitates SportChick conan the destroyer style |
| 22:08.06 | delusional | i think they're calling OSX snow leopard so they can make the box white. OSX has come in a black box since day 1 |
| 22:09.18 | Winny | nah, their other products come in a white box |
| 22:09.41 | SportChick | points TheRedBaron to Rule11 |
| 22:11.35 | delusional | exactly.. now OSX will have a white box to match the rest of the boxes. |
| 22:12.00 | Winny | that would break the chain |
| 22:12.26 | JBdiGriz | boxes? |
| 22:31.47 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-087-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:40.08 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep) |
| 22:42.39 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-066-026-094-182.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:53.49 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-066-026-094-182.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:54.43 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-066-026-094-182.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:20.52 | Wyk3d | should i include the libraries i used in the code i submit to google ? |
| 23:24.02 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (n=Paul@71-14-108-006.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 23:25.57 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@about/apple/macbook/whodaman-) |
| 23:26.00 | Wyk3d | I did port them to windows and collected only the necessary files so that might count I guess |
| 23:28.36 | CBG | Feature idea... Enemy tanks only show on your radar if you or a teammate saw them...? |
| 23:32.39 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 23:41.21 | *** join/#bzflag bier__ (n=bier@pD9E2C060.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:41.44 | *** join/#bzflag bier|tp (n=bier@p54A55CCC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:42.58 | TD-Linux | CBG, would their motion be updated? |
| 23:44.35 | CBG | if someone was still looking at them, sure. |
| 23:45.09 | AHA | or have the radar update every couple of seconds, kinda like those submarine radars with the circle and the line going around |
| 23:45.46 | AHA | http://www.gemtree.com/SHOOT/radar.gif |
| 23:48.03 | JeffM2501 | Wyk3d, I don't think they are going to try to build it, but it can't hurt to include everything |
| 23:49.42 | Wyk3d | well as much as they would try it would be impossible for them without the common project unfortunately :) |
| 23:51.34 | Wyk3d | but I've got it set up so that it compiles but doesn't link at the end, only had to add like 4-5 files from bzflag for that |
| 23:52.57 | JeffM2501 | they just want a record of what is done |
| 23:53.10 | JeffM2501 | for the acutal usefullness of it they use the mentors for that |
| 23:54.38 | Wyk3d | anyway i've done it already and besides it's easier to view if they can open the solution :) |
