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| 00:33.40 | blast007 | AAA_awright: patches welcome. I don't feel too bad about breaking 'links' though :P |
| 00:34.14 | AAA_awright | I don't know how most browsers would respond to a 303 though |
| 00:34.20 | AAA_awright | Presumably all of them |
| 00:35.30 | AAA_awright | blast007: Am I just imagining something, or is it true that when we used GET to send the password, it was sent in the referer header? |
| 00:35.48 | AAA_awright | It seems too obvious... |
| 00:35.58 | blast007 | when did we use GET to send the password? |
| 00:36.14 | AAA_awright | Before I submitted a patch to fix it |
| 00:36.48 | blast007 | guess so |
| 00:37.13 | AAA_awright | r14696: Use POST instead of GET |
| 00:37.20 | AAA_awright | You made that commit :p |
| 00:37.24 | blast007 | right |
| 01:08.20 | Thumper_ | Flash: ping |
| 01:25.53 | AAA_awright | blast007: What if we used a modified OpenID protocol to authenticate? |
| 01:51.13 | temp_dist | I saw recently that OpenID is very vulnerable to man-in-the-middle and spoofing attacks |
| 02:14.46 | AAA_awright | temp_dist: Any less so then weblogin.php? |
| 02:15.26 | temp_dist | i don't know those details, just something I heard and listened to cause I use OpenID on a couple websites |
| 02:19.02 | AAA_awright | OpenID is far more secure. |
| 02:19.42 | AAA_awright | All of the security cries I have heard are common sense things, provider spoofing, one password, etc. |
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| 02:27.14 | AAA_awright | The argument that you are tied to your OpenID is patently ridiculous, Your OpenID is what you use to authenticate your self, just like how you use a password to authenticate yourself. Nearly all websites have a "reset your password via email" link, and similarly, websites implementing OpenID need a "assign a new OpenID to your account via email" link. |
| 02:27.17 | AAA_awright | blast007: Ping |
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| 03:33.40 | blast007 | AAA_awright: pong |
| 03:34.41 | AAA_awright | blast007: Integrate an OpenID protocol to authenticate? Supposedly it would be more secure. |
| 03:34.45 | AAA_awright | Just a thought, nothing more. |
| 03:35.23 | blast007 | "supposedly" ? |
| 03:35.45 | blast007 | how exactly does OpenID work? what's the benefit? |
| 03:36.56 | AAA_awright | blast007: OpenID uses cryptography, it has some neat protocols that allow sharing of information better, it would use a more standard API, idk |
| 03:37.32 | blast007 | can you be a little more vague? |
| 03:37.53 | AAA_awright | OpenID is teh 1337 haxorz |
| 03:38.32 | AAA_awright | Um, it would allow use of a similar and more standardized protocol. Nothing more. |
| 03:39.01 | blast007 | how is our stuff not standardized? |
| 03:39.30 | AAA_awright | It is a proprietary plain text over HTTP protocol |
| 03:40.30 | blast007 | okay, so basically you're saying it would be a lot of work to implement, and would give us nothing. |
| 03:40.36 | blast007 | we'll get right on that. |
| 03:41.14 | AAA_awright | I was never pushing anything |
| 03:41.35 | blast007 | sure you were |
| 03:41.45 | blast007 | you've suggested OpenID in the past too |
| 03:42.26 | blast007 | I don't see how OpenID would be any different than our weblogin stuff |
| 03:42.32 | AAA_awright | That was Meteorite, who considered how bzflag.org or someone else might turn your BZID into an OpenID provider |
| 03:43.07 | AAA_awright | It wouldn't, I am asking if there is anything that could make it a good idea (never said it was) |
| 03:43.23 | blast007 | nope, it was you |
| 03:43.28 | blast007 | I'm looking at my logs |
| 03:43.47 | AAA_awright | Just... forget it. |
| 03:44.13 | blast007 | I think Tim's comment about it was quite clear |
| 03:44.14 | blast007 | [19:05:25] <@TimRiker> I'm not at all convinced that openid is supported anywhere we care about. |
| 03:44.53 | AAA_awright | Maybe I am forgetting a different conversation I had in a former life, what was the date? |
| 03:45.14 | blast007 | let me check |
| 03:45.25 | blast007 | it started with this, if you want to review your logs too: |
| 03:45.28 | blast007 | [18:55:24] < AAA_awright> Why not make it OpenID compatible! |
| 03:45.55 | AAA_awright | Exclamation point. Clearly a joke :p |
| 03:47.01 | blast007 | then why did you continue to discuss it at that time? |
| 03:47.10 | AAA_awright | blast007: Date? |
| 03:47.26 | blast007 | no thanks, I already have plans |
| 03:47.45 | AAA_awright | Clearly I made no attempt to remember the conversation, and google isn't pulling any of the logs up |
| 03:47.51 | AAA_awright | Huh? |
| 03:48.19 | Winny | "Clearly I made no attempt to remember the conversation" So? Obviously still happened. |
| 03:48.30 | blast007 | --- Day changed Tue Feb 06 2007 |
| 03:49.02 | blast007 | AAA_awright: so, was this time just a joke too? |
| 03:51.31 | AAA_awright | blast007: I was humbly asking if there was something that I was missing that might make it a good idea, OpenID was designed around authenticating yourself to 3rd parties, and with minor changes it would open a whole set of pre-written libraries to be used and taken advantage of. |
| 03:51.45 | blast007 | I'm not sure if you're missing anything |
| 03:51.54 | blast007 | you should be the one who knows that, since you're suggesting it |
| 03:52.41 | blast007 | "I think we should use <insert thing here>" "Okay. Why?" "Heck if I know! The name just sounded cool." |
| 03:54.08 | AAA_awright | blast007: People are more creative working together, regardless of how much each person knows (though some movies might prove otherwise) |
| 03:54.23 | AAA_awright | Be constructive, because that is what I am asking for |
| 03:55.01 | AAA_awright | Was ibot gone for that conversation? I can't find anything relating to OpenID in the logs for that month, or even all of #bzflag |
| 03:55.33 | blast007 | that doesn't always work. You don't go to the owner of a company and suggest something, and not be able to back it up with rational reasons WHY they should do it. |
| 03:56.25 | AAA_awright | I was asking for feedback, not permission to manufacture a product |
| 03:56.37 | blast007 | I never said anything about a product |
| 03:57.04 | blast007 | maybe it was changing to a heavier weight paper. who cares. the point is still there. |
| 03:57.19 | AAA_awright | (I was exaggerating) |
| 03:57.41 | AAA_awright | Why are you being so negative? |
| 03:58.03 | AAA_awright | n.. nevermind. |
| 03:58.10 | AAA_awright | plays BZFlag |
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| 04:21.24 | AAA_awright | Well that makes sense |
| 04:21.44 | AAA_awright | You have to size a std::vector before you start setting members by their key |
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| 04:59.21 | javawizard2539 | is bored |
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| 06:10.13 | Flash | Thumper_: pong |
| 06:10.25 | Flash | (sorry... had a party tonight) |
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| 10:12.00 | CIA-33 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1176 10/trunk/src/ (14 files in 2 dirs): |
| 10:12.00 | CIA-33 | FTGL: * Create FTFont::GlyphLoadFlags() to vary FT_Load_Glyph() calls according |
| 10:12.00 | CIA-33 | FTGL: to the font type. Now we no longer load vector information when not |
| 10:12.00 | CIA-33 | FTGL: needed. |
| 10:12.23 | CIA-33 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1177 10/trunk/src/FTContour.cpp: * Better FTContour::ComputeOutsetPoint() documentation. |
| 10:13.11 | CIA-33 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1178 10/trunk/src/FTGL/ (FTBufferGlyph.h FTGlyph.h): * Document missing function parameters. |
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| 11:35.06 | NoName2 | Hi |
| 11:35.28 | delusional | yo, do you have a question? |
| 11:35.30 | NoName2 | I have a question regarding your game engine |
| 11:35.57 | NoName2 | Because I am interested in network multiplayer games, I wanted to ask you some technical details |
| 11:36.01 | NoName2 | Is that ok? |
| 11:36.10 | delusional | ~ask |
| 11:36.15 | ibot | well, ask is Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 11:37.01 | NoName2 | I am interested in, how you realized the network connectivity of your game ... |
| 11:37.15 | NoName2 | so how did you design your communication between client and server |
| 11:37.27 | NoName2 | did you use the basics of some famous game engine |
| 11:37.36 | NoName2 | (e.g. Unreal)? |
| 11:37.42 | delusional | bzflag does not use an "engine" per se. |
| 11:37.57 | delusional | it was built from scratch |
| 11:38.12 | NoName2 | ok, so you use your "own" engine |
| 11:38.22 | delusional | way back in 1992, there were not many to choose drom |
| 11:38.54 | NoName2 | do you think, that "modern" games, use the same "communication" paradigma than bzflag? |
| 11:39.29 | NoName2 | I ask, because I am thinking about, to build a game engine (especially the server-client communication part) |
| 11:39.45 | NoName2 | ... AND ... first of all, thanks for all you advices!!! |
| 11:40.29 | delusional | I'm not the right person to ask... you'll have to wait a few hours for the "right" people to wake up and arrive. |
| 11:41.11 | NoName2 | ok, I am not from us, so I have a different time ;) |
| 11:41.45 | whodaman- | :) |
| 11:45.00 | NoName2 | Ok, so thanks, and cu later! |
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| 11:50.21 | delusional | you left, but here's the link anyway http://my.bzflag.org/w/Network_Protocol |
| 11:54.41 | CIA-33 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1179 10/trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): * Document and reorganise FTBuffer. It is now clean enough. |
| 11:57.47 | CIA-33 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1181 10/trunk/src/ (FTContour.cpp FTContour.h): * Code simplifications in FTContour. |
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| 12:41.14 | Thumper_ | Flash: ping2 |
| 12:58.36 | CIA-33 | FTGL: 03sammy * r1182 10/trunk/ (46 files in 5 dirs): |
| 12:58.36 | CIA-33 | FTGL: * Add my copyright information to files I modified significantly. |
| 12:58.36 | CIA-33 | FTGL: * Add the Unicode, Inc. to the list of authors because of FTUnicode.h. |
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| 18:45.25 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17453 10/trunk/bzauthd/MSVC/VC8/ (ldap.vcproj libgcrypt.vcproj test.vcproj): unbreak vc8 project |
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| 18:57.14 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17454 10/branches/v2_99_shot_branch/ (203 files in 64 dirs): sync with head r17451 |
| 19:00.53 | Erroneous | wanders around touching people's projects |
| 19:01.13 | Thumper_ | ahh cooties! |
| 19:01.38 | Thumper_ | oh yeah I don't have a project... |
| 19:01.48 | Erroneous | heh |
| 19:05.35 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17455 10/trunk/bzwgen/src/TextUtils.cxx: set newline property |
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| 19:09.52 | Erroneous | hmph, there's not much to touch in Lukstr's yet... :) |
| 19:10.00 | Lukstr | meow |
| 19:10.04 | Lukstr | I just got home :P |
| 19:10.07 | Lukstr | stop touching me! |
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| 19:14.52 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17456 10/branches/v2_99_shot_branch/src/bzflag/HUDRenderer.cxx: quell warning |
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| 19:16.05 | Erroneous | Lukstr: finals went well, I trust? |
| 19:17.08 | Lukstr | heeeeeee new topic please :) |
| 19:17.37 | Lukstr | nah I did well |
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| 19:17.47 | Erroneous | heh, cool :) |
| 19:23.41 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17457 10/branches/gsoc_server_listing/src/bzflag/HUDuiScrollList.cxx: explicitly round down when calculating visibility |
| 19:26.52 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17458 10/branches/gsoc_server_listing/src/bzflag/HUDuiScrollList.cxx: quell warnings |
| 19:27.30 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17459 10/branches/gsoc_server_listing/MSVC/VC8/bzflag.vcproj: build HUDuiScrollList |
| 19:44.10 | Lukstr | Erroneous: What sort of API would be best? |
| 19:45.52 | Lukstr | re: syntax |
| 19:45.57 | Erroneous | Lukstr: calling code needs to have access to all the object properties specified in the file, and a way to iterate over all the objects in the file (and maybe all objects of a specific type). that's about the only requirement. |
| 19:47.03 | Lukstr | so have some sort of bzw object |
| 19:47.09 | Erroneous | yeah, objects are good :) |
| 19:47.20 | Lukstr | my brain is telling me to write C :P |
| 19:47.39 | Lukstr | alright I gets it |
| 19:47.42 | Erroneous | C++ is nice, especially for stuff like this, where you are literally dealing with objects :) |
| 19:47.44 | Lukstr | brain is functioning now |
| 19:47.57 | Lukstr | I found the ++ switch |
| 19:48.25 | Erroneous | so yeah, an object representing the world, containing a list of objects in the world (or better yet, groups) |
| 19:48.31 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 19:48.48 | Lukstr | I had a brain cramp for a second there, I see the light now |
| 19:49.11 | Lukstr | for some bizarre reason (not enough coffee), I was thinking of making a singleton |
| 19:49.15 | Lukstr | just |
| 19:49.18 | Lukstr | pretend I never said that |
| 19:49.23 | Lukstr | move along. |
| 19:49.25 | Erroneous | you will need to decide early on how to handle group/define and material/matref stuff. it can get complicated (multiple references to the same group and such) |
| 19:49.37 | Lukstr | ref counting? |
| 19:49.40 | Lukstr | delicious |
| 19:50.02 | Lukstr | Should I consider garbage collecting then? |
| 19:50.37 | Erroneous | the world object itself could be a singleton with no real harm to our current model. it's probably not the best way to go for future expansion though (envision an editor that allowed multiple worlds open at the same time, for instance) |
| 19:51.13 | Erroneous | GC is an optimization ;) |
| 19:51.19 | Lukstr | alright |
| 19:51.26 | Erroneous | so don't worry about it yet |
| 19:51.28 | Lukstr | I have docs for a neat garbage collecting system I dreamt up |
| 19:51.39 | Lukstr | I'd probably implement it for myself sooner or later so we'll see |
| 19:51.58 | Lukstr | (nothing original, tried and true methods of course) |
| 19:52.44 | Erroneous | and in all honesty it shouldn't be necessary...the use case for bzw is pretty lightweight. we don't care about expense on load and unload (or serialize/deserialize if you prefer), and not much else gets done that would create or destory objects. |
| 19:53.00 | Lukstr | ah okay |
| 19:53.26 | Lukstr | Yeah, I can't see a huge need for it, but I wondered if there were some underlying mechanisms that might mess things up |
| 19:53.45 | Lukstr | such as the aforementioned material/matref stuff that I'll have to look into |
| 19:54.05 | Lukstr | I suspect the wiki will be my work place for some time |
| 19:54.12 | Erroneous | we have two decent implementations at the moment. the one in bzfs is quite for simple objects, but insufficiently abstract and excessively complicated because it was extended to do things that it wasn't designed to, when we added meshes, groups, and materials |
| 19:54.20 | Erroneous | s/quite/quite good/ |
| 19:54.27 | Erroneous | kind of a critical word there... |
| 19:54.27 | Lukstr | right |
| 19:55.06 | Erroneous | the one in bzwb is more flexible, but very slow and memory-intensive, and really centered around editorness |
| 19:55.16 | Lukstr | Interesting |
| 19:55.24 | Lukstr | should I pull the bzwb source mayhaps? |
| 19:55.32 | Erroneous | you should look at it certainly |
| 19:55.37 | Lukstr | alright |
| 19:55.43 | Erroneous | likewise bzfs' |
| 19:55.59 | Erroneous | it will pay to be familiar with how they're called by their respective environments |
| 19:56.03 | Lukstr | bzfs in on my list |
| 19:56.09 | Lukstr | yes |
| 19:56.48 | Erroneous | bzwb is much newer code, so there's less cruft attached |
| 19:57.04 | Lukstr | curses, bzwb's silly location |
| 19:57.21 | Erroneous | it's rather fatally string-heavy and tied in to osg |
| 19:57.28 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 19:57.31 | Lukstr | so I heard |
| 19:57.38 | Erroneous | the actual parser is much better in bzfs. streams for the win. |
| 19:57.43 | Lukstr | heh |
| 19:57.58 | Lukstr | well I'll pull bzwb, but I don't plan to build it any time soon |
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| 19:58.05 | Lukstr | I'll worry about that in that later |
| 19:58.13 | Lukstr | I don't want to deal with OSG right now :P |
| 19:58.15 | Erroneous | building it can be painful depending on your platform |
| 19:58.22 | Erroneous | on windows OSG is a serious obstacle |
| 19:59.56 | Lukstr | I can imagine |
| 20:00.14 | Lukstr | OSG seems a bit overkill for such a system |
| 20:00.26 | Lukstr | I guess it would help if bzflag was modularized more |
| 20:00.30 | Erroneous | not really...you need some kind of scenegraph :) |
| 20:00.37 | Erroneous | osg just happens to be a pretty good one |
| 20:01.00 | Lukstr | I suppose, you could always hack bzflag into an editor though :P |
| 20:01.07 | Erroneous | yeah, bzflag's rendering stuff can't really be reused readily |
| 20:01.17 | Erroneous | and you wouldn't really want to if you could :) |
| 20:01.27 | Lukstr | Exactly |
| 20:06.59 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17460 10/branches/gsoc_server_listing/src/bzflag/HUDuiScrollList.cxx: |
| 20:06.59 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: rewrite width-trimming logic. old logic had two problems: it would almost |
| 20:06.59 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: always cut short due to variable-width fonts, and it would cut strings in the |
| 20:06.59 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: middle of multibyte characters. new logic iterates over each string to find the |
| 20:06.59 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: appropriate place to trim it. expensive, but works. |
| 20:07.57 | Erroneous | is willing to bet the controlpanel code has the same problem |
| 20:18.52 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r17461 10/trunk/web/bzfls2/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Initial logging support. |
| 20:19.02 | Lukstr | storm numero 2 |
| 20:19.23 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03catay * r17462 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/botplaying.cxx: Pass the botID to the sendNewPlayer method. |
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| 20:23.01 | BulletCatcher | ~catay++ |
| 20:23.21 | catay | heya BulletCatcher :) |
| 20:23.29 | BulletCatcher | Thanks for fixing that. |
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| 20:55.11 | blast007 | Erroneous: actually, OSG was fairly painless |
| 20:55.19 | blast007 | just took a while to build it |
| 20:55.38 | blast007 | I could even make a nice binary dev package for it if necessary :) |
| 20:55.40 | Erroneous | blast007: then something major changed |
| 20:55.49 | Erroneous | there were hardcoded paths EVERYWHERE |
| 20:56.23 | blast007 | not even sure if I had the latest version |
| 20:56.39 | blast007 | I just used the .zip's I already had from before |
| 20:57.33 | blast007 | OpenSceneGraph-2.0.zip and 3rdParty_Win32binaries_2005_05_10.zip |
| 20:58.09 | blast007 | created a directory and with two directories, one for each zip (3rdParty and OpenSceneGraph) |
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| 20:58.35 | blast007 | then CMake did it's thing in the OpenSceneGraph directory, and created the VC7.1 files |
| 20:59.11 | blast007 | certainly not as straight forward as bzflag, but it wasn't too hard either |
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| 21:23.12 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17463 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: server no longer supports /identify, pull autoidentify code |
| 21:27.31 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17464 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (ControlPanel.cxx ServerLink.cxx playing.cxx): |
| 21:27.31 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: * wrap multibyte utf8 strings correctly in the control panel |
| 21:27.31 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: * trim improperly sliced utf8 characters during MsgMessage send and receive |
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| 22:22.03 | JeffM | Erroneous, what is the define to turn off the warnings for stuff like strnicmp? |
| 22:23.20 | Erroneous | _CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS and _CRT_NONSTDC_NO_WARNINGS |
| 22:23.29 | JeffM | thanks |
| 22:24.15 | JeffM | I wonder how this ever worked under VC71 |
| 22:24.22 | JeffM | strcasecmp dosn't exist on windows |
| 22:25.37 | Winny | wonders if that was the thing that he commented out in BZWB |
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