| 00:01.02 | AAA_awright | That didn't seem to fix it |
| 00:01.40 | JeffM | much better Winny |
| 00:01.48 | AAA_awright | It looks like an image from a "next" current-generation console. Excessive brown and bloom. |
| 00:02.29 | AAA_awright | Winny: Are you seeing it too? The same thing for the footer image, instead of grey it is brown... |
| 00:06.32 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-26 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 00:06.32 | JeffM | cool, blast007 is going to fix confdir ;) |
| 00:08.43 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-255-249.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:18.38 | delusional_ | enabling "extended observer info" disables showcoordinates |
| 00:18.57 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:23.02 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (n=dbharris@bas1-toronto48-1279296475.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:23.39 | Winny | AAA_awright, my mac doesn't do that |
| 00:23.43 | Winny | o.O |
| 00:26.15 | AAA_awright | Hm.... |
| 00:35.11 | *** join/#bzflag me1--- (n=4066fe21@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:44.59 | Flash | FontManager patch has been submitted |
| 00:45.01 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-177-176-191.natsoe.res.rr.com) |
| 00:45.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 00:52.18 | Flash | would anyone care to discuss the design of the FontManager? |
| 00:55.52 | *** join/#bzflag Gauge (n=falloutb@c-98-216-50-151.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:55.59 | Flash | ok then, I'm going to go blow up some tanks |
| 00:58.27 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 00:59.41 | spldart | Gotta love windows random reboots! |
| 00:59.46 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 01:00.00 | JeffM | Flash, what about it? |
| 01:00.17 | JeffM | tho I don't know how much it resembles my origonal code |
| 01:06.51 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A54AD5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:18.18 | Flash | JeffM: FontFace has an array of 200 different font sizes, but it is VERY sparse |
| 01:18.34 | Flash | is there a critical performance issue in font lookup? |
| 01:18.56 | Flash | I might consider a map instead, or even a sequential search |
| 01:19.37 | JeffM | yes it is a critical issue |
| 01:19.46 | JeffM | fonts are looked up, A LOT |
| 01:19.53 | JeffM | many times per frame |
| 01:19.55 | Flash | ok, so the array is reasonable |
| 01:19.58 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:20.04 | JeffM | little ram for a big speed boost |
| 01:20.09 | Flash | I guess it's just critical that it be initialized properly |
| 01:20.17 | JeffM | indeed |
| 01:20.26 | JeffM | tho I belive that's brlcad code |
| 01:20.32 | JeffM | my origonal stored it in a map |
| 01:20.40 | JeffM | the array is an optimisation |
| 01:20.55 | JeffM | the FTGL font manger is inherently slightly slower then the old one |
| 01:21.04 | Flash | do you happen to know why MAX_SIZE is 200, but the size of the array is actually 201? |
| 01:21.06 | JeffM | so he's doing his best to make it at least as fast |
| 01:21.28 | JeffM | he probalby screwed up |
| 01:21.32 | JeffM | or needed a pad |
| 01:21.35 | JeffM | just in case or something |
| 01:21.43 | JeffM | it's just pointers right? |
| 01:21.46 | Flash | yes |
| 01:21.59 | JeffM | so, meh, 808 bytes |
| 01:22.07 | Flash | yeah, not critical at all |
| 01:22.15 | Flash | just harder to make sure it's initialized |
| 01:22.35 | JeffM | memeset(array,sizeof(array),0); :) |
| 01:23.07 | Flash | believe it or not (though I can't think of a platform where it's true) that's not proper initialization for pointers |
| 01:23.17 | JeffM | ram is ram |
| 01:23.25 | DTRemenak | yes it is |
| 01:23.36 | JeffM | it's not a pointer till it gets asigned to one ;) |
| 01:23.44 | DTRemenak | NULL is defined as 0 in c++ |
| 01:23.49 | Flash | although you assign 0 to a pointer, that language is not obligated to use a bit-pattern of all zeros as the representation of a null pointer |
| 01:23.56 | DTRemenak | yes it is |
| 01:24.02 | Flash | pretty sure it isn't |
| 01:24.16 | JeffM | tools can set it to non 0 values |
| 01:24.20 | JeffM | but yeah null is 0 |
| 01:24.27 | Flash | The compiler is free to do whatever it needs when you assign 0 to a pointer |
| 01:24.29 | JeffM | or if (!ptr) woudln't work |
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| 01:24.49 | Flash | again, the compiler can translate |
| 01:24.55 | Flash | it's not a big deal |
| 01:26.34 | Flash | how are font face id's allocated/assigned? |
| 01:26.42 | JeffM | order they are called |
| 01:26.50 | JeffM | first face called == 0 |
| 01:27.15 | Flash | in the drivel output, the first face requested (turned into a real font) is 4, size 13 |
| 01:27.36 | Flash | well, maybe the drivel isn't sufficient |
| 01:27.51 | JeffM | do we scan the dir? |
| 01:27.52 | Flash | I see 5 font families loaded |
| 01:27.57 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr|Laptop (n=lukstr@CPE001310a188df-CM0012253e430e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:28.04 | JeffM | if we scan the dir, it'd be the first oen loaded |
| 01:28.11 | Lukstr|Laptop | I have returned. |
| 01:28.26 | Lukstr|Laptop | Soon I shall be joined by chicken wings, and A New Hope. |
| 01:28.36 | Flash | looks like the dir also has 5 fonts |
| 01:28.44 | Flash | and they are loaded in alpha order |
| 01:28.48 | JeffM | we probalby scan the dir |
| 01:28.59 | JeffM | or whatever order the OS gives them to us in ;) |
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| 01:29.14 | Flash | does someone request by face id, or is that all internal to the font manager? |
| 01:29.29 | JeffM | they can request the ID of a font by name |
| 01:29.33 | JeffM | then after that use the ID |
| 01:30.11 | JeffM | yeah bz calls load all |
| 01:30.22 | Flash | hmmm. I wonder if instead of passing id's around, if it would be better to expose (opaquely) the FontFace directly |
| 01:30.30 | JeffM | no |
| 01:30.33 | Flash | why? |
| 01:30.38 | JeffM | in case we change font systems |
| 01:30.54 | Flash | FontFace is an abstraction over font implementation |
| 01:30.54 | JeffM | the point of the manager is to not tie the code diretly to FTGL |
| 01:31.12 | Flash | FontFace is a protected structure internal to FontManager |
| 01:31.20 | JeffM | you think the ID lookup is slow? |
| 01:31.21 | DTRemenak | ISO/IEC 9899:1999, 6.3.2.3.3: An integer constant expression with the value 0, or such an expression cast to type void *, is called a null pointer constant. If a null pointer constant is converted to a pointer type, the resulting pointer, called a null pointer, is guaranteed to compare unequal to a pointer to any object or function. |
| 01:31.40 | DTRemenak | NULL is 0 |
| 01:31.40 | Flash | not slow, just a loose cohesion design |
| 01:31.43 | DTRemenak | in C++ |
| 01:32.01 | JeffM | Flash, it was a dropin for the old font manager |
| 01:32.15 | Flash | For example, FontManager::getStringHeight(int FaceId, float size) |
| 01:32.30 | Flash | in order to call that, somewhere, I had to lookup the id for my face |
| 01:32.32 | JeffM | yeah I see where you are going |
| 01:32.39 | JeffM | Flash, you shoudl have stored it ;) |
| 01:32.50 | JeffM | init your ids on startup |
| 01:32.52 | JeffM | but yeah |
| 01:32.57 | Flash | if, instead of an id, I returned a FontFace*, then I could call FontFace::getStringHeight(float size) |
| 01:33.09 | JeffM | it's still a look up |
| 01:33.14 | JeffM | and something oyu had to store |
| 01:33.19 | Flash | right, I don't think the performance changes |
| 01:33.19 | JeffM | so same number of steps |
| 01:33.29 | DTRemenak | even in K&R C: "Pointers and integers are not interchangeable. Zero is the sole exception: the constant zero may be assigned to a pointer, and a pointer may be compared with the constant zero. The symbolic constant NULL is often used in place of zero, as a mnemonic to indicate that this is a special value for a pointer" |
| 01:33.35 | Flash | but it looks like a better (more C++) design to me |
| 01:33.40 | JeffM | I'd have to see it |
| 01:33.49 | Lukstr|Laptop | DTRemenak, what're we arguing about? :P |
| 01:33.57 | Flash | DTRemenak: that doesn't speak (yet) to the internal representation of a null pointer |
| 01:34.05 | JeffM | but yeah it's just putting the manager code into a font base class and wraping it up in a pimple |
| 01:34.07 | Flash | only that the language can assign and compare pointers to 0 |
| 01:34.17 | Flash | JeffM: right |
| 01:34.29 | DTRemenak | Flash: it does guarantee that if you write 0 to memory, the contents of that memory is the null pointer |
| 01:34.41 | Flash | not in what you quoted |
| 01:34.57 | JeffM | Flash, if oyu want to do it, go for it. but honestly there are places in the code that need more love then the font manager. |
| 01:35.23 | Flash | I'm just there because it was crashing |
| 01:35.27 | DTRemenak | ptr = NULL and ptr = 0 are identical statements |
| 01:35.47 | JeffM | changing the system to use face classes ain't going to make it not crash ;) |
| 01:35.48 | Flash | DTRemenak: those are COMPILER directives, not direct memory management (like memset) |
| 01:36.04 | Flash | JeffM: no, changing it to properly initialize the array made it not crash |
| 01:36.11 | JeffM | then there ya go |
| 01:36.26 | Flash | DTRemenak: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=null%20pointer |
| 01:36.28 | JeffM | it's designed the way it is, only because that's how the old code was roughly done |
| 01:36.45 | JeffM | this will be the third font system in bzflag |
| 01:36.49 | JeffM | and I dobut the last |
| 01:37.11 | Flash | In particular, code such as char **p = calloc(100,sizeof(int)); is not guaranteed to make p point to an array of 100 NULL pointers! |
| 01:38.00 | Flash | JeffM: I generally loathe indexes and key values (especially if a reference to an object will serve the same purpose) |
| 01:38.08 | JeffM | you'll live |
| 01:38.27 | JeffM | for me it's all about maintainbility rather then achedemics |
| 01:39.04 | JeffM | like I say, if you want to redo it, be my guest |
| 01:39.12 | Lukstr|Laptop | Flash: that calloc call makes little sense |
| 01:39.14 | Flash | I find aesthetics improve maintainability |
| 01:39.20 | JeffM | but I bet you'll be changing a LOT of code |
| 01:39.27 | Flash | I enjoy it ;-) |
| 01:39.30 | JeffM | Flash, ok, whatever flaots your boat |
| 01:39.52 | JeffM | I don't care ether way, and I wrote the thing |
| 01:39.55 | Flash | well, not yet... I doubt you guys want to spend the time approving my patches to improve aesthetics |
| 01:40.04 | JeffM | I just wanted to be able to actualy MAKE a ndw font ;) |
| 01:40.12 | JeffM | new font |
| 01:40.12 | Flash | ndw? |
| 01:40.17 | Flash | oh |
| 01:40.19 | JeffM | the first font system |
| 01:40.27 | JeffM | used WACKY fonts |
| 01:40.33 | JeffM | we could not make new ones |
| 01:40.42 | JeffM | so I wrote the font manager that 2.0 uses |
| 01:40.51 | JeffM | and it pulls from regular files |
| 01:40.55 | Flash | I am NOT a graphics programmer... but I do infrastructure VERY well |
| 01:40.56 | JeffM | and I wrote a tool |
| 01:41.04 | JeffM | so bam, we got new fonts |
| 01:41.19 | JeffM | then over time I redid the backend of that manager, to use FTGL |
| 01:41.27 | JeffM | cus I wanted to use TTF and not look like ass |
| 01:41.51 | JeffM | so then I gave that to dtr/brlcad and they threw it into 3.0 |
| 01:41.54 | JeffM | cus it was a basic drop in |
| 01:42.05 | JeffM | and bam, bz got ttf |
| 01:42.25 | JeffM | tho they had to mod this one a fair amount |
| 01:42.37 | JeffM | the next font system we use will proably be part of a 3d engine |
| 01:47.14 | Lukstr|Laptop | digs into the msgnewrabbit problem again |
| 01:54.33 | Lukstr|Laptop | does MsgNewRabbit *magically* unpack/pack a bit and where it does so is unknown? Or does it do so blatently but not sure why it's there? |
| 01:59.40 | JeffM | does it pack one? |
| 01:59.48 | Lukstr|Laptop | hm |
| 02:00.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | I don't remember seeing it pack one lemme check |
| 02:00.31 | JeffM | it does |
| 02:00.36 | Lukstr|Laptop | saveRabbitState() packs |
| 02:00.46 | JeffM | is it read? |
| 02:01.01 | JeffM | it's the mode |
| 02:01.15 | Lukstr|Laptop | hm |
| 02:01.27 | JeffM | I don't see a problem with it |
| 02:01.45 | Lukstr|Laptop | Yeah neither do I |
| 02:01.53 | JeffM | tho the client dosn't have to send us a new rabbit message anymore |
| 02:01.56 | JeffM | that can be removed |
| 02:02.01 | Lukstr|Laptop | oh? |
| 02:02.15 | JeffM | server can pick rabbits on deaths |
| 02:02.32 | JeffM | the rabbit logic should be made totaly server side |
| 02:02.44 | Lukstr|Laptop | right |
| 02:02.57 | JeffM | so if you want to do that, go for it |
| 02:03.25 | Lukstr|Laptop | will do |
| 02:04.04 | JeffM | and if there isn't already one, add an api hook for "need a new rabbit" |
| 02:06.16 | Flash | JeffM: I stumbled into the TimeKeeper code where you are setting processor affinity.... |
| 02:06.43 | Flash | can you explain what problem that is solving? Does it need a Mac implementation as well? |
| 02:06.45 | Lukstr|Laptop | uh oh |
| 02:06.49 | spldart | ~JeffM++ |
| 02:06.52 | spldart | for kicking butt |
| 02:07.15 | blast007 | JeffM: heh, I probably will fix -confdir, because I want a portable bzflag too ;) |
| 02:07.18 | spldart | Just been watching for quite a while |
| 02:07.34 | Lukstr|Laptop | aye, JeffM's the man |
| 02:07.43 | spldart | :-D blast007 really? |
| 02:08.30 | spldart | finally found his 1gig flashdrive.... lost for 2 months |
| 02:10.38 | Flash | it looks like the linux call pushes a whole process toward a processor; the Mach interface is on a thread basis |
| 02:11.25 | JeffM | Flash, the timekeeper works on the mac |
| 02:11.36 | JeffM | oh the affinit |
| 02:11.39 | JeffM | affinity |
| 02:11.42 | Winny | Dunno if anyone else finds this cool: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/04/04/mac-os-x-leopard-designers-guide-to-icons/ |
| 02:11.49 | JeffM | that is cus of dual core timing issues on windows |
| 02:11.52 | JeffM | with the QPC |
| 02:11.56 | JeffM | apple should be fine |
| 02:12.13 | JeffM | blast007, I'd not mind a magic file in the exe dir that forces BZ to do it all localy too |
| 02:12.21 | JeffM | that'd be the best flash drive option |
| 02:12.33 | Flash | ok. I just noticed a warning about "processor" argument unused, so I was considering if it needed to be ;-) |
| 02:12.47 | JeffM | it's probably not used by your OS |
| 02:12.53 | JeffM | but by others |
| 02:13.03 | JeffM | feeds |
| 02:13.12 | Flash | right. there's a linux #ifdef and a windows one |
| 02:13.18 | Flash | feeds also |
| 02:13.28 | Lukstr|Laptop | nom nom chickenwings |
| 02:13.35 | spldart | :) |
| 02:16.04 | Winny | om nom nom nom |
| 02:23.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | ruh roh tuskan raiders |
| 02:32.47 | Lukstr|Laptop | JeffM: The rabbit logic currently is all server side so there's no need for the client to pester the server? |
| 02:34.55 | spldart | He went POOF! |
| 02:35.04 | spldart | I'm sure he'll be back though :) |
| 02:35.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | oh. |
| 02:35.08 | Lukstr|Laptop | So. he. did. |
| 02:35.09 | Flash | Lukstr|Laptop feeds the bit-bucket |
| 02:35.22 | Lukstr|Laptop | is it leaky? |
| 02:35.36 | Flash | who can tell? It never gets full though |
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| 02:36.03 | spldart | Dear Lieja dear lieja |
| 02:36.18 | Lukstr|Laptop | haha |
| 02:36.18 | Flash | what language did you learn it in? |
| 02:36.26 | Lukstr|Laptop | learn what in |
| 02:36.35 | Flash | "There's a hole in the bucket...." |
| 02:36.45 | Lukstr|Laptop | me or spldart ? |
| 02:36.48 | Flash | spldart: |
| 02:36.52 | Lukstr|Laptop | nom nom |
| 02:36.54 | spldart | Eenglase |
| 02:36.59 | Flash | lol |
| 02:37.10 | Lukstr|Laptop | I would've said C :( |
| 02:37.16 | spldart | Cobal |
| 02:37.22 | spldart | LOL |
| 02:37.28 | Flash | let's see, in C it might be... |
| 02:37.28 | spldart | Basic |
| 02:37.52 | Lukstr|Laptop | ducks |
| 02:38.07 | spldart | prepares compiler |
| 02:38.13 | Lukstr|Laptop | hehe |
| 02:38.37 | Flash | void DearLiza(bool recurse) { if (recurse) DearLiza(false); } |
| 02:38.40 | spldart | hrm.. better not.. got five movies encoding @ one time |
| 02:39.15 | spldart | oop.. 6 movies encoding |
| 02:39.28 | Lukstr|Laptop | you're craz |
| 02:39.30 | Lukstr|Laptop | *crazy |
| 02:39.31 | Flash | DearLiza(true) |
| 02:39.35 | spldart | Avoid, the noid, dominoes pizza delivers |
| 02:39.42 | Lukstr|Laptop | just pull out your manuals and compile it by hand |
| 02:40.05 | spldart | has no manuals |
| 02:40.11 | spldart | is a complete hack |
| 02:40.23 | spldart | I don't even rate script kiddie |
| 02:40.23 | Lukstr|Laptop | intel will send them free |
| 02:40.40 | spldart | mmMMmm free is the right price |
| 02:41.00 | Lukstr|Laptop | they ship stupid-quick too, were there by the next day |
| 02:41.09 | Lukstr|Laptop | they thought I was someone important I guess |
| 02:41.49 | spldart | I could always have them ship to my employers shop. |
| 02:46.55 | L4m3r | woohoo! :D |
| 03:10.33 | spldart | Well... I thought Jeff would come back hehe |
| 03:10.39 | Lukstr|Laptop | boo |
| 03:10.53 | Lukstr|Laptop | spldart, what are you drinkin' tonight? :P |
| 03:11.02 | spldart | Heheh... You know me too well |
| 03:11.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | haha |
| 03:11.05 | spldart | Mickeys |
| 03:11.10 | Lukstr|Laptop | mickeys? |
| 03:11.15 | spldart | Malt Liquor |
| 03:11.21 | Lukstr|Laptop | haha |
| 03:11.41 | Lukstr|Laptop | that sounds appalling |
| 03:11.43 | Flash | is that the green bottle with the wide mouth? |
| 03:11.52 | spldart | the six packs.. yes |
| 03:11.55 | spldart | I'm doin the 40's |
| 03:11.58 | Lukstr|Laptop | Is it any relation to Olde English? |
| 03:12.02 | spldart | B |
| 03:12.03 | spldart | etter |
| 03:12.06 | Lukstr|Laptop | thank god |
| 03:12.07 | spldart | oops |
| 03:12.11 | spldart | text split |
| 03:12.14 | Flash | I think I had one of those once |
| 03:12.16 | spldart | as appossed to net split |
| 03:12.17 | Flash | I hate beer |
| 03:12.22 | Lukstr|Laptop | Edward 40 hands? :P |
| 03:12.27 | spldart | yep |
| 03:12.32 | Lukstr|Laptop | you |
| 03:12.36 | Lukstr|Laptop | are a good typist. |
| 03:12.39 | spldart | Or old Beastie Boys if you will |
| 03:12.45 | spldart | Not I said the fly |
| 03:15.10 | spldart | oh wow |
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| 03:15.56 | spldart | riding the wave |
| 03:15.56 | Lukstr|Laptop | rip simmons. |
| 03:18.10 | Flash | brlcad: are you here yet? |
| 03:18.30 | Lukstr|Laptop | Flash: an applying student? |
| 03:18.37 | Flash | heavens no |
| 03:18.38 | spldart | awefully quiet other than jeff and you two.. and me of course.. isn't it? |
| 03:18.58 | Flash | Lukstr|Laptop: I could be an aspiring student's father |
| 03:19.03 | Lukstr|Laptop | Hehe |
| 03:19.07 | Lukstr|Laptop | Daddy? |
| 03:19.11 | Flash | except my student is in Construction Management |
| 03:19.19 | spldart | hehe |
| 03:19.31 | spldart | So Flash and spldart have some grey? |
| 03:19.44 | Flash | does (but just a touch) |
| 03:19.49 | spldart | :) |
| 03:19.54 | Flash | about 12 hairs in the beard |
| 03:20.22 | L4m3r | ~JeffM++ |
| 03:20.22 | L4m3r | ~Saturos++ |
| 03:20.22 | spldart | I'm a bit greyer |
| 03:20.23 | spldart | and some silver |
| 03:20.26 | Flash | men in my family don't grey until very late |
| 03:21.39 | spldart | IC |
| 03:23.08 | Flash | Lukstr|Laptop: I'm just a frustrated old programmer who doesn't get to write enough code at work anymore |
| 03:23.37 | Flash | even though I'm a better programmer than just about everyone else |
| 03:23.37 | Flash | (I do have one kid who is really sharp, though...) |
| 03:23.39 | Lukstr|Laptop | Flash, well that's no good. Just sneak around to all the interns and newbies and remove semicolons and such |
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| 03:23.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Manu] by irc.freenode.net |
| 03:24.13 | spldart | woah |
| 03:24.14 | Flash | don't have to. I get to code review everything they write. I find enough wrong to keep them busy |
| 03:24.21 | Lukstr|Laptop | hehe |
| 03:24.21 | Lukstr|Laptop | where do you work? |
| 03:24.32 | spldart | Those sharp kids are cool aren't they? And sometimes a total pain in the butt! Keeps yah on your toes |
| 03:24.44 | Flash | a small aerospace company (about 40,000 employees) |
| 03:24.57 | Lukstr|Laptop | oooh aerospace |
| 03:25.05 | spldart | fun stuff |
| 03:25.14 | spldart | need an electronics engineer? |
| 03:25.14 | Lukstr|Laptop | 40000 isn't very small :P |
| 03:25.31 | Flash | is dazzled by Lukstr|Laptop's powers of deduction |
| 03:25.46 | Lukstr|Laptop | They teach that to me in university ;) |
| 03:25.57 | Flash | glad to see you are getting your money's worth |
| 03:26.06 | Lukstr|Laptop | Next year we learn induction. |
| 03:26.19 | spldart | mmMMmm sarcasm ;-) |
| 03:26.34 | Flash | so you are a EE to? (induction....) |
| 03:26.40 | Flash | *too |
| 03:26.47 | spldart | too? |
| 03:26.51 | Lukstr|Laptop | nah, but I'm good at inducing headaches. |
| 03:26.51 | spldart | I thought you were a coder |
| 03:26.54 | spldart | like my brother |
| 03:27.00 | spldart | oh lukstr |
| 03:27.02 | spldart | err |
| 03:27.05 | Flash | no, Lukstr|Laptop like you... right |
| 03:27.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | runs |
| 03:27.07 | spldart | I are teh confuseed |
| 03:27.10 | spldart | and fell down |
| 03:27.22 | Flash | ~pamper spldart |
| 03:27.23 | ibot | ACTION pulls out all the stops, and arranges a 2-hour massage, manicure, pedicure, facial and a full day at the spa for spldart. In addition, food is catered from the local 5-star restaurants, prepared especially for spldart. An army of people are available to do anything spldart might wish for! |
| 03:27.23 | Lukstr|Laptop | me too |
| 03:27.28 | spldart | hehe |
| 03:27.33 | spldart | ~lart spldart |
| 03:27.33 | ibot | takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down spldart's throat until spldart puts on 150lbs |
| 03:27.40 | Flash | ooooooh |
| 03:27.43 | Flash | me next! |
| 03:27.49 | spldart | LOL |
| 03:28.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm in systems engineering, fyi |
| 03:28.14 | Flash | which school? |
| 03:28.23 | Lukstr|Laptop | small university in canada |
| 03:28.31 | Lukstr|Laptop | Guelph? Probably never heard of it? Yes? |
| 03:28.40 | Flash | I don't think there are a lot of schools that have SE programs |
| 03:28.47 | Lukstr|Laptop | I know a few |
| 03:28.55 | Flash | I know the University of Virginia has one (I know the chair) |
| 03:29.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | Waterloo has one |
| 03:29.24 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 03:29.37 | Flash | well, if they are really teaching you to look at the big picture, that's a great thing |
| 03:29.51 | Flash | unfortunately, often people don't realize they need systems engineering |
| 03:30.05 | Flash | I guess they expect the systems to engineer themselves |
| 03:30.11 | Lukstr|Laptop | hehe |
| 03:30.17 | Flash | or that software will magically come together and fix everything |
| 03:30.31 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm minoring in computer science. |
| 03:31.21 | Flash | good mix |
| 03:31.37 | Flash | often times, senior developers are pushed into SE |
| 03:31.43 | Flash | I've resisted it |
| 03:31.59 | Flash | although my current title (Software Architect) is considered an SE category |
| 03:32.09 | Flash | I just don't let them know what I really do |
| 03:32.12 | spldart | Sounds like a quick way to a cluster f |
| 03:33.03 | Lukstr|Laptop | Flash, you're an architect? I heard all they do is sit in a room full of paper and cry |
| 03:33.22 | Flash | I said that was my title.... |
| 03:33.26 | Lukstr|Laptop | :P |
| 03:33.43 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-218-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:33.44 | Flash | the system I work on is something I got to design from the ground up |
| 03:33.54 | Flash | and I coded at least 80% of it, over time |
| 03:34.00 | Lukstr|Laptop | It's often too late when a team realizes they need an architect |
| 03:34.01 | Lukstr|Laptop | sweet |
| 03:34.29 | Flash | if a team realizes they need an architect, it IS too late |
| 03:34.34 | AAA_awright | sf.net is down...? |
| 03:34.42 | Flash | that's like starting to build a house without blueprints |
| 03:34.44 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: fine here |
| 03:35.23 | AAA_awright | Just started working again... odd |
| 03:35.26 | Lukstr|Laptop | yeah, that's what happened at the last place I worked |
| 03:35.57 | Lukstr|Laptop | a senior dev finally confronted the department head about hiring a serious full-time architect |
| 03:35.57 | Flash | the job of an architect is to communicate vision: here's where we are going and how all the pieces fit together... |
| 03:36.04 | Lukstr|Laptop | exactly |
| 03:39.51 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@69.92.113.202) |
| 03:42.45 | Lukstr|Laptop | short_circuit, what prompts the name change? |
| 03:43.10 | Flash | when he goes away.... |
| 03:43.53 | Lukstr|Laptop | :P |
| 03:44.02 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm new here :P |
| 03:44.23 | Flash | some people have clever names, like Flash_away |
| 03:44.30 | Lukstr|Laptop | I just leave. |
| 03:44.34 | Flash | spldart wants to be special |
| 03:44.49 | Lukstr|Laptop | changing nicks makes me get penalties in idle rpg |
| 03:45.00 | short_circuit | goin to sleep. but like a 6 y/o don't want to miss anything |
| 03:45.17 | Lukstr|Laptop | yeah that's why Lukstr is idling here, many cities away |
| 03:45.18 | short_circuit | hehe... the wife plays idle rpg |
| 03:45.29 | Lukstr|Laptop | I just started; it's genius. |
| 03:45.54 | short_circuit | and we.. I do electronics.. thus short_circuit |
| 03:46.07 | short_circuit | anywho.. night all |
| 03:46.21 | Lukstr|Laptop | night! |
| 03:47.28 | Flash | cheers |
| 03:47.32 | Flash | xemacs ftw |
| 03:47.47 | Lukstr|Laptop | what on earth is xemacs? |
| 03:48.00 | Flash | it's the original IDE |
| 03:48.07 | Lukstr|Laptop | aw |
| 03:48.11 | Lukstr|Laptop | not a plugin for vim? :P |
| 03:48.17 | Flash | it started life as an editor/development environment for LISP |
| 03:48.35 | Flash | but you can write anything you want for it (in lisp) |
| 03:48.51 | Flash | so you can read mail in it, do FTP, etc. |
| 03:49.08 | Flash | I particularly find it useful for searching through directories of files |
| 03:49.09 | Lukstr|Laptop | heh |
| 03:49.17 | Lukstr|Laptop | I just use bash :P |
| 03:49.18 | Flash | has a great directory browsing mode |
| 03:50.35 | TheRedBaron | ~flash++ |
| 03:50.45 | Flash | TheRedBaron: thanks, but why? |
| 03:50.48 | Lukstr|Laptop | maybe I'll try this emacs thing one day |
| 03:50.57 | Lukstr|Laptop | don't hold me to it, however |
| 03:51.56 | TheRedBaron | Flash: there's way much more to you than meets the eye |
| 03:52.22 | Flash | this is the internet... what meets the eye? |
| 03:52.47 | L4m3r | JeffM: :D |
| 03:53.05 | TheRedBaron | a metaphor ill suited to this medium :) |
| 03:53.08 | Lukstr|Laptop | oh, when did he get here? |
| 03:53.23 | *** join/#bzflag EmoNemo (n=Gigi@unaffiliated/emonemo) |
| 03:53.45 | Flash | looks like he snuck in 20 mins ago |
| 03:54.11 | Lukstr|Laptop | ninja |
| 04:00.03 | JeffM | L4m3r: it fit ok? |
| 04:00.13 | L4m3r | kinda snug, but it fits |
| 04:00.32 | JeffM | it's the right size isn't it? |
| 04:00.35 | L4m3r | the dimensions are right, but it's not cut as baggy as my other shirts |
| 04:00.42 | JeffM | ahh |
| 04:00.45 | JeffM | hows it look? |
| 04:00.47 | L4m3r | ok |
| 04:00.53 | L4m3r | I just hope it's pre-shrunk |
| 04:01.00 | L4m3r | the design looks very nice :) |
| 04:01.04 | JeffM | wash it in cold :) |
| 04:02.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | I do all my laundry in cold :P |
| 04:02.08 | eTangenT | or just don't wash it |
| 04:02.10 | eTangenT | ever. |
| 04:02.12 | JeffM | should be fine |
| 04:02.25 | JeffM | it was wierd, DTRemenak and I sorta matched today |
| 04:02.33 | L4m3r | heh |
| 04:02.35 | JeffM | tho my green is way cooler then his ;) |
| 04:02.50 | Flash | L4m3r: it's the dryer that shrinks them.... |
| 04:03.08 | Lukstr|Laptop | It can be both :P |
| 04:06.37 | L4m3r | well I don't really have a clothesline in here |
| 04:06.51 | L4m3r | well, actually, I DO have some of the clothesline cord, but nowhere to hang it :P |
| 04:07.03 | JeffM | over your PC |
| 04:07.25 | L4m3r | PC doesn't get too warm. the 21" CRT would probably work though ;) |
| 04:07.46 | Macro_notHere | hang it on some cat5 :p |
| 04:07.55 | L4m3r | plenty of that too |
| 04:08.09 | L4m3r | I actually hung a curtain from cat5 last year |
| 04:08.18 | JeffM | guesses that .bz is getting nailed again :( |
| 04:08.27 | L4m3r | the paperclip fasteners glided nicely over the plastic cat5 sheath |
| 04:09.11 | L4m3r | JeffM: I didn't have any trouble with bzbb just now |
| 04:09.21 | JeffM | it's beeing slower then crap for me |
| 04:09.42 | JeffM | and opencombat is fast |
| 04:22.45 | *** part/#bzflag Mets (n=Mets@JETSTAR.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 05:13.42 | *** join/#bzflag findlay (n=justin@72.8.99.158) |
| 05:14.40 | findlay | whenever I start up bzflag it continuously redraws the screen very slowly, about once a second. What can I do about this? |
| 05:18.04 | Flash | what version? |
| 05:18.15 | Flash | what platform? |
| 05:25.51 | findlay | let's see |
| 05:26.22 | *** join/#bzflag mib_dkp5r6 (i=7dec8641@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-bca55ac81a317058) |
| 05:26.23 | findlay | BZFlag client 2.0.10.20080210-MAINT-linux-gnu-SDL run over `ssh -X` |
| 05:26.25 | findlay | and |
| 05:27.37 | findlay | BZFlag client 2.0.10.20080126-MAINT-linux-gnu-SDL on the local machine |
| 05:28.05 | mib_dkp5r6 | Building bzflag 2.0.x: what does it mean by "fatal error cannot open include file" and refers .cxx files |
| 05:28.18 | Lukstr|Laptop | woah, you're forwarding BZFlag over X |
| 05:28.22 | findlay | remote platform is gentoo amd64, local platform is debian lenny on intel |
| 05:28.23 | Lukstr|Laptop | over SSH? |
| 05:28.35 | findlay | Lukstr|Laptop: just the local network |
| 05:28.46 | Lukstr|Laptop | oook |
| 05:29.03 | findlay | graphical apps actually run quite well |
| 05:29.12 | Lukstr|Laptop | but games? |
| 05:29.29 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm skeptical |
| 05:29.34 | findlay | don't know. I'll see after I can get this redraw thing worked out :) |
| 05:29.38 | Lukstr|Laptop | hehe |
| 05:30.00 | findlay | that's the whole point of even trying the remote thing: the local bzflag was totally unusable |
| 05:30.23 | findlay | and it turns out that *it* is also :( |
| 05:30.34 | Lukstr|Laptop | do you have proper video card drivers? |
| 05:32.37 | BulletCatcher | mib_dkp5r6: Missing include files means you don't have all of the development packages you need. |
| 05:34.30 | findlay | Lukstr|Laptop: VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 915GM/GMS/910GML Express Graphics Controller (rev 04) |
| 05:34.53 | findlay | I believe that that video controller is well supported in Linux |
| 05:35.14 | Lukstr|Laptop | probably, but you never know :P |
| 05:35.45 | findlay | yeah |
| 05:36.27 | Lukstr|Laptop | just making sure you didn't have some bizarre video card problems |
| 05:36.51 | BulletCatcher | findlay: Does a "glxinfo | grep direct" command say Yes or No? |
| 05:36.54 | findlay | I could, but this would be the first indication thereof |
| 05:37.16 | findlay | bash: glxinfo: command not found |
| 05:37.23 | BulletCatcher | hmm |
| 05:37.40 | findlay | what package is that command in? |
| 05:37.43 | findlay | xorg-server? |
| 05:37.58 | BulletCatcher | It is in glx-utils on my Fedora system. |
| 05:39.06 | findlay | mesa-utils on debian |
| 05:39.50 | Lukstr|Laptop | aye |
| 05:39.53 | findlay | direct rendering: No |
| 05:40.15 | BulletCatcher | That means you are not getting hardware acceleration. |
| 05:40.23 | Lukstr|Laptop | huzzah |
| 05:40.42 | findlay | hm |
| 05:41.29 | BulletCatcher | I have NVIDIA graphics, and must install NVIDIA's proprietary driver to get hardware acceleration. |
| 05:42.56 | findlay | and all of the 1 fps alacrity of software 3D, yeah! |
| 05:44.41 | Lukstr|Laptop | a few years ago I smashed my head in trying to figure out why a small ogl project was lagging so insanely. I ended up profiling it, rewriting half the code, only to figure out a year later I commented out hardware acceleration :( |
| 05:44.57 | BulletCatcher | findlay: You will need to find the right driver to get usable graphics performance. |
| 05:45.57 | BulletCatcher | You may now have a program called "glxgears". It shows a window with gears turning and prints the frames-per-second every 5 seconds. |
| 05:46.19 | findlay | BulletCatcher: glxinfo is telling me it can't find i915_dri.so, and neither can I |
| 05:47.07 | BulletCatcher | Then you may be stuck. |
| 05:47.23 | Lukstr|Laptop | :/ |
| 05:47.36 | findlay | surely it must be somewhere |
| 05:47.41 | Lukstr|Laptop | what distro? |
| 05:47.59 | findlay | debian lenny |
| 05:50.04 | findlay | interesting |
| 05:50.05 | Lukstr|Laptop | apparently the package libgl1-mesa-dri-dbg has it |
| 05:50.06 | Lukstr|Laptop | http://packages.debian.org/lenny/i386/libgl1-mesa-dri-dbg/filelist |
| 05:53.58 | findlay | awesome, dri |
| 05:54.10 | findlay | thanks, BulletCatcher, Lukstr|Laptop |
| 05:54.20 | Lukstr|Laptop | no problem |
| 05:54.24 | Lukstr|Laptop | yay I helped somebody :) |
| 05:54.32 | BulletCatcher | You're welcome. You'll probably have to reboot to make the driver take effect. |
| 05:54.48 | findlay | although libgl1-mesa-dri had it too |
| 05:55.15 | Lukstr|Laptop | that sounds like the best bet |
| 05:55.27 | BulletCatcher | The -dbg suffix probably stands for debug, so you might prefer the other. |
| 05:55.40 | Lukstr|Laptop | yeah |
| 06:07.17 | findlay | well, there you have it |
| 06:07.25 | findlay | bzflag on the eeepc :-) |
| 06:09.07 | Lukstr|Laptop | hah! |
| 06:22.27 | Flash | findlay: running a remote X session is almost NEVER performant (BZflag or any other app) |
| 06:23.02 | Flash | I've never tried with BZFlag, so I can't give you first-hand experience with that app, but I've done it with other graphically intensive apps |
| 06:25.18 | brlcad | Flash: you exposed FTFont through the FontManager interface -- the code was structured the way it was to intentionally avoid that |
| 06:25.42 | brlcad | aside from all the refactoring related to that -- is there something actually fixed? |
| 06:25.42 | Flash | not really. A forward declaration doesn't expose anything |
| 06:25.55 | brlcad | sure it does, it's an incomplete type |
| 06:25.59 | Flash | yes, the key thing was the initialization of sizes |
| 06:26.05 | Flash | it's only a pointer |
| 06:26.34 | Flash | class Foo; Foo* getFoo(); doesn't expose Foo |
| 06:27.25 | Flash | you could do the immediate fix with a one-line change where you memset sizes to 200 (instead of 201), but instead I added a ctor to the structure |
| 06:27.27 | AAA_awright | I have a really great phpbb3 template going, but it looks ugly, so no one is allowed to see it until it is finished. http://aaa.busyflag.org/bb/ *oops* |
| 06:27.51 | AAA_awright | Later everyone :) |
| 06:28.10 | Flash | brlcad: I'm working on exposing more (and less) with FontManager |
| 06:28.49 | Flash | you don't want using classes to depend on which font package you use, but a class name in one header doesn't do that (unless people have to litter it in their code) |
| 06:29.56 | Flash | also, if you waded through all the chatter, you will see a discussion on how memset for pointers is actually incorrect |
| 06:31.05 | brlcad | Flash: the entire point, though, is to not expose any of the implementation detail, type-wise or otherwise |
| 06:31.43 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16906 10/trunk/bzflag/src/3D/FontManager.cxx: sync per the MAX_SIZE defined in the header |
| 06:31.49 | Flash | it's only exposed if the user has to do anything with it. The fact that a class has a private member of a pointer to some type does not expose it |
| 06:31.58 | brlcad | huh?? memset of an array of void pointers is not "incorrect" |
| 06:32.26 | brlcad | you seriously enjoy arguing bikeshed issues |
| 06:32.27 | Flash | the representation of a null pointer is not guaranteed to be the bit pattern 0x0000 |
| 06:32.48 | Flash | it's not hard to do the right thing; I don't know why it's a big deal |
| 06:33.55 | brlcad | they're not being initialized as null pointers, they're just being zerod |
| 06:34.12 | Flash | but they are, in fact pointers |
| 06:34.18 | brlcad | and as a void pointer, checking for non-zero (which is all the code does) works just fine |
| 06:34.49 | Flash | if you memset a void* to 0, and then compare it to 0 (a null pointer) it is NOT guaranteed to be equivalent |
| 06:35.09 | brlcad | eh, cite a reference? |
| 06:35.23 | brlcad | if you set to NULL and compare to zero, that's not guaranteed to match |
| 06:35.39 | brlcad | and vice versa |
| 06:37.44 | Flash | http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=null%20pointer |
| 06:38.04 | Flash | the compiler will translate assignment and comparison to 0 as null pointers |
| 06:38.12 | Lukstr|Laptop | memset just sets the pointers to whatever the value is |
| 06:38.15 | Flash | memset bypasses the type-safety imposed by the compiler |
| 06:38.36 | brlcad | that says exactly what I just said |
| 06:39.00 | Flash | assignment goes through the compiler. memset does not |
| 06:39.01 | brlcad | i.e. that NULL is not necessarily == 0 |
| 06:39.04 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 06:39.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 06:39.31 | Flash | n particular, code such as char **p = calloc(100,sizeof(int)); is not guaranteed to make p point to an array of 100 NULL pointers! Rather, p points to a block of 100 pointers, but that block is zero-filled rather than NULL-filled. This type of bug is particularly insiduous, as almost all compilers will represent NULLs as zeroes, so you will not find it in QA unless you have such a platform. |
| 06:40.02 | brlcad | you're still missing the point, it's not setting a null pointer -- that's not relevant as it's not compared to null |
| 06:40.31 | Flash | everywhere except in this initialization, sizes[x] is a void* (a pointer) |
| 06:40.34 | brlcad | it is, however, still zero-filled |
| 06:40.45 | BulletCatcher | observes that sizeof(int) is not always equal to sizeof(void*) |
| 06:41.09 | Flash | so a comparison of sizes[x] == 0 is comparing the value of sizes[x] to a null pointer |
| 06:41.12 | brlcad | which is why it uses sizeof(void*) |
| 06:41.26 | brlcad | no, sizes[x] == NULL is comparing to a null pointer |
| 06:41.44 | Flash | memset will set sizes[x] to the bit pattern 0x0000. If the null pointer representation is something different, the comparison will fail |
| 06:41.55 | Lukstr|Laptop | BulletCatcher, I thought the same thing :P |
| 06:42.07 | brlcad | Flash: sure -- but that comparison is not made |
| 06:42.19 | brlcad | only the value is checked |
| 06:42.22 | Flash | let me find it |
| 06:42.30 | brlcad | if there's a NULL, it wasn't intentional |
| 06:42.42 | brlcad | and *that* could be fixed |
| 06:43.09 | brlcad | otherwise it's just a preference to zero-init voids or null-init them which is a moot point |
| 06:43.36 | Flash | I'm sorry you don't see it, but it really isn't a moot point |
| 06:43.57 | Flash | it's not something to fall on your sword over, but there is an issue |
| 06:44.32 | Flash | I'm trying to figure out how to reference line numbers, because I've been hacking on my version.... |
| 06:44.33 | brlcad | dude, point to where there's an actual problem |
| 06:44.56 | brlcad | an *actual* problem |
| 06:45.35 | Flash | for example: FontManager::clear (don't have the line number) if ((*faceItr).sizes[i]) { |
| 06:46.02 | Flash | this is a compiler generated comparison of sizes[i] != 0 (null pointer) |
| 06:47.06 | Flash | it may WORK on the platforms tested so far, but (given memset(sizes, 0) ), it is not guaranteed to work |
| 06:47.13 | brlcad | yes... it's checking the _value* |
| 06:47.24 | Flash | whereas using type-safe initialization IS guaranteed to work |
| 06:48.29 | brlcad | heh, aside from finding a platform within the past two decades where NULL is not a zero-value, the if comparison you reference is checking the value |
| 06:48.54 | brlcad | it *would* be potentially wrong on this mythical non-zero-null system if it were an == NULL check |
| 06:49.02 | brlcad | but it's not, it's value-based |
| 06:49.19 | Lukstr|Laptop | Yeah, brlcad's right, it's pure value comparison there |
| 06:49.29 | Flash | Sorry |
| 06:49.32 | brlcad | a that doesn't change -- expressions still evaluates as a logical |
| 06:49.33 | Flash | you are mistaken |
| 06:49.37 | brlcad | whatever |
| 06:50.21 | Lukstr|Laptop | Flash: How's it pointer comparison? |
| 06:50.33 | Flash | Because sizes is an array of pointers |
| 06:50.40 | Flash | C++ is a strongly-typed language |
| 06:51.01 | brlcad | capt obvious? |
| 06:51.02 | Flash | a boolean operation on a pointer is EQUIVALENT to ptr == 0 (or ptr != 0) |
| 06:51.26 | Flash | you can define boolean operations on user-classes to implement whatever logic you like |
| 06:51.39 | Flash | it's not an operation on the bits of the thing |
| 06:52.04 | brlcad | and how praytell do you define the boolean operation |
| 06:52.08 | Flash | these things are defined by the ISO spec of the language |
| 06:52.28 | Flash | class Foo { operator bool() { return false; } }; |
| 06:52.49 | Flash | if ( foo ) { always false } |
| 06:52.54 | brlcad | exactly |
| 06:52.57 | brlcad | class Foo |
| 06:53.04 | brlcad | these are not classes |
| 06:53.13 | brlcad | they're serialized into void pointers |
| 06:53.14 | Flash | and the language spec defines the operation on pointers |
| 06:53.53 | Lukstr|Laptop | Flash: where exactly is sizes initialized to zero or whatever? |
| 06:54.14 | Flash | I've lost it, because I deleted that section from my version |
| 06:54.27 | Flash | brlcad: you just changed it.... |
| 06:54.29 | brlcad | Lukstr|Laptop: there's a memset in the constructor |
| 06:54.57 | brlcad | zero-initializes an array of void pointers |
| 06:55.14 | Flash | it's in FontManager::load() |
| 06:55.24 | Flash | where a new FontFace is created |
| 06:55.41 | brlcad | ah, right -- load() |
| 06:55.47 | brlcad | it was in the constructor before |
| 06:56.07 | Flash | guys, I don't need to argue this. Yes it works on our platforms. No, it is not conformant with the language spec. |
| 06:56.08 | brlcad | the data containers for the fonts has changed a few times |
| 06:56.22 | brlcad | Flash: then don't argue it |
| 06:56.30 | brlcad | but stop pulling the conformancy BS |
| 06:56.46 | Flash | I'm not trying to. It's not BS and it's not odious to be conformant |
| 06:56.48 | brlcad | it is perfectly fine as-is so long as there are not NULL check |
| 06:57.20 | Flash | NULL and 0 are *exactly* the same to the language .... in class-safe operations |
| 06:57.24 | brlcad | this is the kind of degenerative talk that isn't productive in the least |
| 06:57.49 | Flash | I would have hoped that you might be open to learning something new |
| 06:57.54 | brlcad | i'm not disputing that in the least - but these aren't classes in question |
| 06:58.34 | Flash | The other stuff I changed was because I thought there might be a problem that I could more easily find if I let the type-safety of the language help me |
| 06:58.56 | Flash | that's the only reason this came up |
| 06:59.04 | Flash | I wasn't trolling looking for a fight |
| 06:59.26 | brlcad | yet you do it so well :) |
| 06:59.36 | brlcad | same as you did last time |
| 07:00.09 | Flash | on the one hand, code cleanup is a long term goal. On the other hand, every time I do it you thwack me |
| 07:00.40 | brlcad | it's the manner in which you do it, and when it involved preferences or misunderstandings - yes it's likely going to be a problem |
| 07:01.06 | brlcad | being arrogant about it is going to get you absolutely nowhere |
| 07:01.31 | Flash | I'm sorry that I appear arrogant. But I am right. Should I pretend otherwise? |
| 07:03.06 | brlcad | presumtion that you couldn't possible be wrong is just the appearance of arrogance? |
| 07:03.33 | Flash | should I take the time to find the specific citation in the ISO standard? |
| 07:03.33 | brlcad | i'm glad you feel so sure about yourself, but from my perspective you're still not getting the issue either |
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| 07:03.56 | Lukstr|Laptop | I know in C zero'd pointers are acceptable but I thought for C++ you had to explicitly null them? |
| 07:04.06 | Flash | I guess you are right. I'm not getting the issue. |
| 07:04.16 | Flash | I told you here last night where the problem was. |
| 07:04.19 | brlcad | if you feel so strongly about it, sure find the reference -- you can do with your time as you please |
| 07:04.31 | brlcad | for the code, though, it still boils down to focusing on constructive issues |
| 07:04.59 | brlcad | if you want to fix a problem, investigate the FIXME |
| 07:05.27 | Flash | What I haven't comprehended yet is why changing a construct that is deprecated to the language-appropriate mechanism is so strongly resisted |
| 07:06.03 | brlcad | what's deprecated? o.O |
| 07:06.23 | Flash | memset, C-style casts for a couple |
| 07:06.53 | brlcad | i don't think that word means what you think it means |
| 07:07.19 | Flash | probably not |
| 07:08.19 | brlcad | there are no plans to obsolete any of these features in C++0x or any proposed future versions of the C++ spec |
| 07:08.41 | brlcad | being deprecated and being discouraged for particular uses are not the same in the least |
| 07:09.21 | Flash | fair enough |
| 07:10.58 | Lukstr|Laptop | brlcad: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1935047&group_id=3248&atid=303248 |
| 07:11.06 | Lukstr|Laptop | I direct you to my awesome patch :P |
| 07:11.15 | brlcad | as for the freetype font types, it is absolutely intentional to completely hide the freetype and ftgl types, complete or incomplete -- if you have a better way to do that sticking to the .cxx file, go for it |
| 07:12.08 | brlcad | it could probably be done with some static functions and a wrapper class container if you really wanted to get rid of the voids, but it wasn't really a big deal |
| 07:13.19 | brlcad | Lukstr|Laptop: cool |
| 07:13.36 | brlcad | how's the explosion pattern different? |
| 07:13.42 | brlcad | other than being less math :) |
| 07:13.46 | Lukstr|Laptop | :D |
| 07:13.55 | Lukstr|Laptop | it's more cone-like |
| 07:14.25 | Lukstr|Laptop | I wish I had more free time to do something more meaningful |
| 07:14.29 | Lukstr|Laptop | but |
| 07:14.31 | brlcad | too :) |
| 07:14.39 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm scared I'm going to bomb things if I kill any more time |
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| 07:15.06 | brlcad | fair enough, you do what you have to do :) |
| 07:15.20 | Lukstr|Laptop | gimme two weeks though :D |
| 07:15.28 | Lukstr|Laptop | and then I'll have alll the time in the world |
| 07:15.49 | Lukstr|Laptop | anyways |
| 07:15.52 | Lukstr|Laptop | off for the night lads |
| 07:15.58 | brlcad | cya |
| 07:15.58 | Lukstr|Laptop | cheers |
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| 07:19.33 | Flash | brlcad: I'm really trying to figure out how to fit in here. Last time I tried to engage, I found something in the TODO file and did it. |
| 07:19.45 | Flash | I took grief for making massive stylistic changes (granted) |
| 07:20.05 | Flash | but then there was a surprisingly long debate about whether the change should be made at all |
| 07:21.11 | Flash | I felt extremely unwelcome to join this little community of open source developers so I went away for a long time |
| 07:21.12 | Flash | A couple of days ago, I tried to build/run the latest version just because. It crashed |
| 07:21.22 | Flash | I worked through the crash, identified the fix, and submitted (what I thought was) a minimal patch |
| 07:21.40 | Flash | now (again) I'm told to find something more important to work on |
| 07:22.23 | brlcad | Flash: yeah, latest sources are highly unstable right now |
| 07:22.23 | Flash | what's wrong with making whatever piece of the code I happen to encounter cleaner and more cohesive? |
| 07:22.34 | brlcad | there have been a slew of massive changes to the protocol layer and other subsystems |
| 07:22.53 | Flash | shouldn't a new person stay on the periphery? |
| 07:23.09 | brlcad | with efforts only just getting started over the past couple months to start to stabilize |
| 07:23.58 | brlcad | Flash: the one aspect of the patch was appreciated (for the core fix, which I see as the off-by-one error on the init) and applied |
| 07:24.12 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16907 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: two clients connecting (at least from the same IP) causes the second to have communication failures and get disconnected |
| 07:24.17 | brlcad | the other aspect was, however, intentional design |
| 07:25.02 | Flash | I'm really struggling to understand the value of that design decision |
| 07:25.03 | brlcad | like I said, you're more than welcome to change that part of it -- just would rather still *completely* hide the freetype and ftgl types |
| 07:25.44 | Flash | I agree that NO other class or function should have a freetype or ftgl type in them at all |
| 07:26.03 | Flash | I don't understand why you feel a forward declaration of a type exposes them |
| 07:26.20 | Flash | unless you expect the next font system to be installed without changing FontManager.h |
| 07:26.21 | brlcad | think of it as a published public header and you don't want your users to know what your backend implementation is |
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| 07:26.37 | Flash | It's not something that C++ really supports |
| 07:26.43 | brlcad | sure it does |
| 07:27.10 | Flash | The typical way is through an impl class, which is forward declared in the "public" header |
| 07:27.14 | brlcad | like I said, you could wrap it in a private class and/or via static funcs in the implementation |
| 07:27.38 | Flash | it already was in a private class, FontFamily |
| 07:27.44 | Flash | (protected, actually) |
| 07:28.04 | brlcad | the bigger issue, though, is to really not turn this into a long-drawn out discussion on a non-constructive change |
| 07:28.38 | Flash | as a general point, is cleaning up code constructive? |
| 07:29.39 | brlcad | as a general point, if it's not questionable value to existing design or conventions, sure it can be |
| 07:30.23 | brlcad | in this case, it was a design decision, however much you disagree with it -- there are 200k other lines that aren't designed that could use some cleanup love too :) |
| 07:30.24 | Flash | I'm really sorry you took issue with my change, because that's exactly what I thought I had done |
| 07:30.50 | brlcad | i'm not taking issue with it -- that's actually how the code looked at one point |
| 07:30.56 | brlcad | almost verbatum |
| 07:31.07 | brlcad | ~spell verbatum |
| 07:31.12 | Flash | verbatim |
| 07:32.22 | brlcad | so to revert back really becomes wasted effort in a sense and ignores the reason for the encapsulation -- didn't serialize into void pointers just for the hell of it |
| 07:32.33 | Flash | So will there be resistance to further work with FontManager? |
| 07:33.26 | Flash | for example, I think passing integer IDs around to represent a font family is brittle. It would easy to pass a class pointer (that doesn't expose any implementation) instead |
| 07:33.51 | brlcad | it's twisted, a bit ugly, but a lot faster and easier than restructing for a static backend or private encapsulation, easy enough to grok, and simple to maintain |
| 07:34.16 | brlcad | when you say a class pointer, what class? |
| 07:34.21 | Flash | a new one |
| 07:34.38 | brlcad | ah, i.e. said private encapsulation of some BZFont class or something |
| 07:34.40 | Flash | most of the operations on FontManager are actually (logically) FontFamily operations |
| 07:35.09 | Flash | I don't think the Font level is the right thing, because the scale can change dynamically |
| 07:35.17 | Flash | although I did consider it |
| 07:35.52 | Flash | but such a change will touch a ton of files |
| 07:36.12 | Flash | and if it will be received with hostility, I won't even start |
| 07:36.18 | brlcad | one aspect to the new font system that I'm still unhappy with is how in order to get fully dynamic aspect ratio resizing, each menu/view has to describe its desired aspect |
| 07:37.09 | Flash | the view has to define how big it wants to draw, but that could be done one time (per view) |
| 07:37.19 | Flash | each time a resize happens |
| 07:37.23 | brlcad | from how you describe it, I don't think it'd be a problem (and I'd really not think the 'dispute' over FTFont exposure was hostile in the least, minor issue) |
| 07:37.45 | brlcad | yeah, that's pretty much what it does now for most screens |
| 07:37.55 | brlcad | but it would be better if it was fully automatic |
| 07:39.06 | brlcad | might not be an easy way to do it frankly, but it is a little fugly that there are different X,Y ratio mins for each menu |
| 07:39.18 | Flash | I've spent a few hours this afternoon identifying which of the public methods in FontManager are really used externally and hiding the others |
| 07:39.41 | brlcad | where th usual intent is just that each menu "fills" the display |
| 07:39.47 | Flash | I've also started creating the interface for the class that would be provided instead of the font id |
| 07:39.54 | Flash | I haven't looked at the size calculations yet |
| 07:40.33 | brlcad | okay, that sounds good to me frankly |
| 07:40.43 | Flash | since different parts of the display use different size fonts, is there any way around each view specifying how big to draw? |
| 07:41.22 | brlcad | i'd really suggest continuing with "small patches", small as possible -- just so we can make sure the "arguments" are minimized and you can get commit access set up for editing lots of files |
| 07:42.04 | Flash | ok. I started down the path of supporting both interfaces (font id and FontFamily) to minimize the number of files I had to change |
| 07:42.16 | Flash | I can pursue that to keep the patch size down |
| 07:42.33 | Flash | add the interface, next change 1-5 files to use it, etc |
| 07:42.38 | brlcad | the only reason most folks don't get commit access is because of arguments -- those committing are expected to not have to argue about language issues -- we discuss user-visiable features and bigger infrastructure changes |
| 07:43.26 | brlcad | yeah, the more succint the better, no peripheral "damage" however tempting :) |
| 07:43.31 | Flash | I don't want to argue, believe me. I'm always surprised, though, when someone takes exception to something like assignment vs memset |
| 07:43.54 | Flash | I can see that it's not something you would have gone out of your way to change, but neither is it harmful |
| 07:44.58 | Flash | on the one hand, this code has a long legacy with strong C tendencies |
| 07:45.02 | brlcad | more exactly the prior -- it's not something to go out of the way to change, or even discuss |
| 07:45.30 | Flash | ok, let me ask this |
| 07:45.39 | brlcad | you'll find that in most codes that have survived more than a decade |
| 07:45.47 | Flash | supposing I did have commit access and you saw that change. Would you be upset? |
| 07:45.51 | brlcad | there's nothing wrong with C tendancies where they're not really harmful |
| 07:45.57 | brlcad | nope |
| 07:46.04 | brlcad | the FTFont change, probably |
| 07:46.14 | brlcad | but to turn it into a loop, not really |
| 07:46.27 | Flash | ok. so the issue is primarily that you have to understand the patch in order to apply it, and you didn't want to wade through peripheral stuff |
| 07:46.45 | brlcad | but to do it under the flag that the current is actually wrong, sure that much isn't right (not for void pointers with no NULL tests) |
| 07:47.19 | Flash | I did intentionally leave in the FTFont stuff, because it improves type safety (and I could delete some useless code) |
| 07:47.32 | brlcad | I did wade through the patch .. 250 lines basically .. for a 1 line actual mod :) |
| 07:47.37 | Flash | I thought I was very clear in my description of the patch of what I changed and why |
| 07:47.49 | Flash | well, that's just the way it unfolded |
| 07:48.07 | Flash | I added the ctor when I found uninitialized memory, and found the memset when I was cleaning up |
| 07:48.38 | Flash | and I still think a larger restructuring is a good thing |
| 07:48.58 | brlcad | that can be said of just about every file in almost any project :) |
| 07:49.13 | Flash | all right. I will continue then |
| 07:49.24 | Flash | one day we might just understand each other |
| 07:49.32 | brlcad | retains hope :) |
| 07:51.16 | BulletCatcher | Thanks, brlcad & Flash, for having that discussion. It was helpful to me, another newbie to this project. |
| 07:53.00 | brlcad | just keep in mind that while we might disagree, most of the core devs have been coding professionally for decades, have sat or sit on standards committees, and aren't fotb in need of being educated about some perception of higher code practices :) .. all code is up for discussion and can almost always be improved upon, there's often many practical reasons why a given implementation is the way it is |
| 07:54.26 | brlcad | the idea is to just focus on making the code better in a non-disruptive, maintainable, and ideally entirely non-argumentative manner -- there's plenty of places for improvement that pretty much nobody would argue with, those are the good places to focus efforts |
| 07:56.09 | BulletCatcher | Is there a definitive list of goals for 3.0 that we could refer to? That might help us understand some of the things we should *not* focus upon. |
| 07:57.20 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: the tops of the TODO and BUGS files are generally the locus of attention and pressing matters |
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| 07:58.11 | brlcad | bigger development issues are easy enough to query from any of the existing devs to see what the plans/directions are |
| 07:58.11 | BulletCatcher | Those files address specific concerns, but I am looking for more more general guidance. |
| 07:58.34 | Manu | ~/last manu |
| 07:58.41 | brlcad | yeah, more general is almost always via active discussion |
| 07:58.45 | brlcad | hola Manu ! |
| 07:58.51 | Manu | buenos dÃÂas :) |
| 07:59.07 | brlcad | que tal amigo? |
| 07:59.11 | Manu | ya ves.. aun sigo dormidi ;) |
| 07:59.15 | Manu | dormido* |
| 07:59.37 | BulletCatcher | So I'll take that as a no, that there is not a documented list of goals. |
| 07:59.55 | mib_5pzsb6 | bullet catcher read your channel |
| 08:00.04 | brlcad | hay bastante tiempo para dormir cuando uno se muere ;) |
| 08:00.21 | Manu | brlcad: y como lo sabes? ;) |
| 08:00.31 | brlcad | jeje |
| 08:01.18 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: if you mean "documented" information, yeah -- that'd be a no for the most part right now |
| 08:01.23 | mib_5pzsb6 | did you get my msg BulletCatcher? |
| 08:01.36 | brlcad | we've had a bigger issue todo list in the past, but it's quickly deprecated |
| 08:01.46 | brlcad | and even more quickly obsolete |
| 08:01.53 | BulletCatcher | mib_5pzsb6: no, I didn't get it. |
| 08:02.13 | mib_5pzsb6 | now? |
| 08:02.57 | BulletCatcher | I don't think I am accepting private messages from non-registered nicks. |
| 08:02.59 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: the goals is *heavily* dependent on the particular devs that are active in a given month/quarter/year, so it's really best to talk to the devs that are actively involved |
| 08:04.11 | brlcad | we've written it all down before, spent days doing so, only to have the list sit there unworked -- nothing speaks more than just persistently working in an area of interest |
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| 08:05.07 | mib_5pzsb6 | how do you make MSVC link up with windows server 03 and directX april |
| 08:06.38 | BulletCatcher | brlcad: Well, JeffM says he wants to release 3.0 by the summer, but it isn't clear how we will know when it is ready. Is this version simply his baby and we must deal with that fact? |
| 08:07.52 | BulletCatcher | Oh. I see the "required for release of 3.0" at the top of the TODO file. Sorry. |
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| 08:19.31 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: oh feature-wise, yeah -- we're already "frozen" |
| 08:19.39 | brlcad | i thought you meant longer-term |
| 08:20.04 | brlcad | like v4 and v5 level todo/directions |
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| 08:25.43 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16908 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/FontManager.h src/3D/FontManager.cxx): |
| 08:25.43 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: resize the array to just MAX_SIZE to avoid further off-by-one errors. also |
| 08:25.43 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: change initialization use from being entirely value-based to being pointer-based |
| 08:25.43 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: (try to make flash less unhappy). add the corresponding nullity tests per |
| 08:25.43 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: pointer initialization. |
| 08:26.35 | Flash | doesn't matter. You won't hardly recognize it when I'm done ;-) |
| 08:28.58 | brlcad | succint patches .. :) |
| 08:29.48 | Flash | sure. First patch is FontManager.h and FontManager.cxx |
| 08:30.41 | brlcad | sure, but i still mean feature/change-wise :) |
| 08:31.07 | brlcad | we don't really *want* folks making patches -- we want them working directly in the code. |
| 08:31.47 | Flash | ok. so for example, right now I have an interface to the new FontFace (that will replace font id) and I moved all the FontFamily internal to the cxx file. Should I put that up as a patch? |
| 08:32.12 | brlcad | the point of patches is to make sure there's an understanding of the dev guidelines, philosophies, meritocracy, and decisions that happen in the project (so commiters aren't arguing) |
| 08:32.46 | brlcad | it it's more than 100 lines, probably |
| 08:35.36 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16909 10/trunk/bzflag/ (AUTHORS NEWS src/geometry/TankSceneNode.cxx): apply sf patch 1935047 from lukstr, crediting him for the change with thanks. untested change (since multiclient connects are presently busted) but the change is simple enough. |
| 08:36.01 | brlcad | that was a succint patch :) |
| 08:39.08 | Flash | I dream big dreams |
| 08:42.46 | brlcad | nothing wrong with that, just create small succint patches for those dreams (so you can get commit access) :) |
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| 08:43.43 | Flash | ok, I regret that this is a not-so-succinct patch |
| 08:43.56 | brlcad | most of my work over the years has been refactoring |
| 08:43.57 | Flash | mostly because things got moved around |
| 08:44.05 | brlcad | bzfs used to be exactly one file, for example |
| 08:44.36 | brlcad | one .. humongous .. file |
| 08:45.05 | brlcad | that was broken up, objects added (albeit still heavily procedural), and quickly exploded with new functionality |
| 08:45.40 | Flash | by the way, I just realized this patch actually undoes your last commit of getting rid of MAX_SIZE+1 |
| 08:45.58 | Flash | but it does work |
| 08:46.25 | brlcad | should merge/update |
| 08:46.36 | Flash | I'm an svn novice |
| 08:46.53 | brlcad | something to learn then :) |
| 08:47.11 | brlcad | the point of patches isn't to make more work for others.. :) |
| 08:47.37 | brlcad | svn up |
| 08:47.48 | brlcad | resolve any conflicts |
| 08:51.12 | Flash | does your version have in getGLFont: if(size > MAX_SIZE) size = MAX_SIZE; ?? (svn didn't change that) |
| 08:55.10 | brlcad | no, it doesn't |
| 08:55.28 | brlcad | size >= MAX_SIZE) size = MAX_SIZE-1 |
| 08:55.34 | brlcad | throughout |
| 08:56.19 | Flash | ok |
| 08:56.48 | Flash | something didn't even trip svn on that then.... oh yeah, I moved it ;-) |
| 08:58.12 | brlcad | that'd do it |
| 09:10.57 | Flash | I suppose I can start over and figure out how to make smaller patches if this is too big |
| 09:22.54 | brlcad | Wyk3d1: they'll all get commented on, patience please -- no comments are generally a good thing :) |
| 09:23.24 | Flash | dims to sleep |
| 09:24.03 | Wyk3d1 | ok, sorry .. i'll wait :) |
| 09:24.14 | Manu | be patient Wyk3d1 :) |
| 09:27.17 | Manu | Wyk3d1: from my point of view your proporal looks interesting |
| 09:27.33 | Manu | at last in part |
| 09:27.34 | brlcad | Flash: looks workable but a few comments -- borderline too big (for future ref), shouldn't remove the print statements unless you've also fixed the FIXME crash (i.e. the reason they were left in there), should use consistent comment style (i.e. /** doxygen comments */), and returning stl containers is a problem for dlls on windows |
| 09:29.39 | Flash | ok. I didn't put in the returning container... I hope to remove it |
| 09:30.15 | Manu | s/proporal/proposal/g |
| 09:30.27 | Manu | kicks his fingers for typing wrong |
| 09:31.08 | brlcad | Flash: ah, true enough -- that's a throwback from earlier, my bad |
| 09:31.50 | Flash | I think the only prints I removed were useless (ctor, dtor where the font faces are either empty or not touched) |
| 09:32.29 | brlcad | reinforces that point of patches being harder and more time-consuming to carefully review the more involved the patch becomes, exponentially so |
| 09:34.03 | Wyk3d1 | (Manu)"at least in part" .. and what parts aren't interesting ? ^^ |
| 09:34.43 | Manu | Wyk3d1: I mean some parts can be discussed ;) |
| 09:34.55 | Wyk3d1 | oh to be discussed definitely |
| 09:35.11 | Wyk3d1 | for example i wrote the whole registration menu as a possibility |
| 09:35.22 | Wyk3d1 | because i know how easily design decision can be shot down :) |
| 09:35.38 | Manu | :) |
| 09:37.39 | brlcad | Flash: also helps to compile before making the patch :) (=>) |
| 09:38.02 | Flash | I did (or did I not?) |
| 09:38.40 | Flash | sigh. |
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| 09:40.31 | Flash | those last minute changes get you every time |
| 09:40.48 | brlcad | yup |
| 09:44.40 | Flash | do you want a fixed patch? |
| 09:45.30 | brlcad | nope |
| 09:45.38 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16910 10/trunk/bzflag/ (3 files in 3 dirs): apply flash's sf patch 1935107 (Initial restructuring of FontManager) -- wraps up the fonts in a BZFontFace class |
| 09:47.56 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16911 10/trunk/bzflag/include/FontManager.h: consistent doxygen-style comments |
| 10:01.05 | Flash | There. THAT's succinct. and I'm a pumpkin |
| 10:10.06 | Constitution | BZBB admins: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12449 |
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| 10:54.49 | menotume | Constitution: i don't see anything, was it 'fixed' ? |
| 10:56.16 | menotume | oh, there were no replies at that time ? |
| 10:56.29 | menotume | or, maybe i should go back to bed :P |
| 10:56.34 | short_circuit | hehe |
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| 11:15.24 | menotume | whodaman-: go away, i'm sleeping |
| 11:15.34 | whodaman- | ...? |
| 11:15.44 | menotume | ICQ request :P |
| 11:16.16 | whodaman- | oh |
| 11:16.32 | menotume | lol |
| 11:16.33 | whodaman- | yeah, I accidentally did that actually, meant to delete you |
| 11:16.39 | whodaman- | err, "move" you |
| 11:16.40 | whodaman- | ;) |
| 11:16.40 | menotume | good :) |
| 11:17.14 | spldart | bzzt |
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| 11:54.28 | Epyon | Ooops, my BZWGen proposal went over 10k D: |
| 11:57.10 | whodaman- | :D |
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| 12:03.21 | spldart | woah |
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| 12:28.56 | Epyon | Any mentors not asleep? :> |
| 12:30.56 | Manu | no :-p |
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| 13:30.05 | Epyon | Hullo :P |
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| 14:25.46 | spldart | ptooie |
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| 15:02.08 | peter4B | umm blast007 |
| 15:02.40 | peter4B | blast |
| 15:02.54 | Winny | Perhaps one of us can help you |
| 15:03.26 | peter4B | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:03.45 | peter4B | winny |
| 15:04.08 | Winny | If he's giving you a hard time ban him... |
| 15:04.15 | whodaman- | rottencrotch? |
| 15:04.25 | peter4B | yeah |
| 15:04.42 | peter4B | hes tking and cussing |
| 15:04.54 | peter4B | we pollbanned him |
| 15:05.05 | peter4B | it worked |
| 15:05.07 | Winny | Ok... |
| 15:05.20 | Winny | Why does this concern us? |
| 15:05.51 | peter4B | im just saying hes cussed at me for no reason |
| 15:06.06 | whodaman- | so? |
| 15:06.11 | whodaman- | Why are you telling us? |
| 15:06.14 | Winny | This channel isn't for policing servers |
| 15:06.19 | peter4B | and repeatdly kept on tking |
| 15:06.23 | peter4B | ok |
| 15:06.27 | Winny | Your best bet is to contact the server owner / admin directly |
| 15:06.38 | peter4B | ok |
| 15:06.58 | peter4B | it was on links ckan rabbit hunt hix map |
| 15:07.01 | spldart | You must relax peter4B ;-) |
| 15:07.13 | peter4B | hes annoying |
| 15:07.18 | spldart | Yes he is |
| 15:07.19 | brlcad | peter4B: alas, not everyone online is very nice -- pollbanning is good, getting an admin on the server to permanently ban them also helps |
| 15:07.23 | spldart | but life can sometimes |
| 15:07.50 | Winny | brlcad: gimmie a D.. gimmie a r ;) |
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| 15:07.55 | peter4B | i dont know who the owner is |
| 15:08.19 | peter4B | of the server |
| 15:08.47 | brlcad | peter4B: well, you can ask the other players or check the server's message of the day (which is displayed when you first log on to that server) |
| 15:08.53 | brlcad | or just keep poll-banning |
| 15:08.58 | peter4B | ok |
| 15:09.01 | brlcad | or play on a different server |
| 15:09.30 | peter4B | he comes on like once every 1 or 2 weeks |
| 15:09.39 | Winny | heh |
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| 15:10.13 | peter4B | ok |
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| 15:14.21 | peter4B | ok |
| 15:14.36 | peter4B | ok got that done |
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| 15:32.29 | Epyon | brlcad, I've got both my apps ready... would you spare a second to take a look before I submit them? |
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| 15:38.04 | TD-Linux | hmm configure.ac:240: required file `misc/ltmain.sh' not found |
| 15:40.20 | brlcad | Epyon: sure |
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| 16:13.20 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16912 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/FontManager.h src/3D/FontManager.cxx): apply sf patch 1935243 (Remove dead function returning STL container) from flash. |
| 16:21.13 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16913 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (HUDuiControl.cxx HUDuiLabel.cxx): |
| 16:21.13 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: apply sf patch 1818289 (Broken F1 while in menu) that should fix the ability to |
| 16:21.13 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: hit F1 (toggle to windowed) while in a menu. from the look, this might fix a |
| 16:21.13 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: few other in-menu bindings too. patch comes from The Vaxorcist. (thanks!) |
| 16:27.14 | spldart | mmMmm client stuff |
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| 16:57.58 | Lukstr|Laptop | hah! you commited my patch |
| 16:58.03 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm a little afraid now |
| 17:03.00 | brlcad | kicks CIA-26 |
| 17:08.28 | Lukstr|Laptop | brlcad: you might laugh when you see the new explosion :) |
| 17:09.06 | Epyon | brlcad, JeffM, submitted. |
| 17:10.54 | spldart | oh really? |
| 17:11.08 | spldart | goes to build windows and linux clients and goes to shoot himself |
| 17:11.16 | Lukstr|Laptop | spldart come shoot me on the test server |
| 17:11.17 | spldart | ah poop |
| 17:11.28 | Lukstr|Laptop | I don't know what broke but I just compiled |
| 17:11.40 | spldart | I have more video encoding goin on this rig.. I'll boot my linux test rig |
| 17:12.18 | Epyon | goes out, see ya guys later. |
| 17:13.21 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm stealing that quit message |
| 17:13.54 | spldart | nice |
| 17:14.35 | JeffM | beer is the little death |
| 17:14.39 | JeffM | beer is the mind killer |
| 17:14.51 | JeffM | beer is that what brings total oblivion |
| 17:14.55 | JeffM | but I will face my beer |
| 17:15.06 | JeffM | I will turn and let it was over me, and thru me |
| 17:15.26 | spldart | The only thing to beer is beer itself? |
| 17:15.57 | JeffM | ever see or read dune? |
| 17:16.03 | spldart | Ok.. building to try out new essplosions now lukstr |
| 17:16.13 | spldart | original dune |
| 17:16.15 | spldart | and yes |
| 17:16.19 | spldart | twas funny |
| 17:16.19 | JeffM | there is the line |
| 17:16.20 | JeffM | "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." |
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| 17:16.35 | spldart | The drinker has awaken!!! |
| 17:16.37 | JeffM | you can replace beer for fear and it still totaly works |
| 17:16.39 | Lukstr|Laptop | s/fear/beer/ |
| 17:16.40 | JeffM | heh |
| 17:16.41 | Lukstr|Laptop | it does |
| 17:17.12 | spldart | btw.. the original dune pwnz |
| 17:17.28 | Lukstr|Laptop | yeah, I've been meaning to re-read that |
| 17:18.14 | spldart | meh... wont be windows building for 3 hours on this machine.. but I do have two machines configured for windows builds :).. but I'm going linux right now |
| 17:18.59 | spldart | crap.. I gotta pick up the spicy wings I ordered in 12 minutes... and the beer and fuel run |
| 17:20.04 | Lukstr|Laptop | ruuuun |
| 17:20.04 | spldart | ah.. which server? |
| 17:20.07 | Lukstr|Laptop | uh |
| 17:20.09 | Lukstr|Laptop | test |
| 17:20.16 | Lukstr|Laptop | I'm still building |
| 17:20.19 | Lukstr|Laptop | just to make sure |
| 17:20.19 | Lukstr|Laptop | I can |
| 17:20.27 | TD-Linux | is building too |
| 17:20.28 | Lukstr|Laptop | but I have to run |
| 17:20.32 | spldart | crap... locked my client |
| 17:20.32 | TD-Linux | race you there :) |
| 17:20.33 | Lukstr|Laptop | so you lads can shoot each other |
| 17:20.43 | Lukstr|Laptop | runs to the shower |
| 17:21.00 | TD-Linux | compiles take 10 minutes :( |
| 17:22.18 | spldart | I'm toast on a stick.. gonna reboot my linux boxen |
| 17:24.37 | spldart | ok |
| 17:24.42 | spldart | trying again |
| 17:25.22 | spldart | I'm in test server n'stuff |
| 17:25.36 | TD-Linux | is almost done compiling |
| 17:26.38 | spldart | I gotta go in 4 min but if your there.. You can shoot me first.. I'll drive across in front of you and you shoot me |
| 17:29.14 | spldart | ack! server communication error |
| 17:31.05 | spldart | I got server comm error again.. yeah.. your parts faded before they hit the ground |
| 17:31.12 | spldart | kinda interesting |
| 17:31.28 | spldart | bbl.. beer and wings await |
| 17:31.47 | TD-Linux | so they fade before they hit the ground... what about other things? |
| 17:31.52 | TD-Linux | btw major server bug |
| 17:32.07 | TD-Linux | everyone slowly lags out until you eventually lose connection |
| 17:37.09 | Winny | Let's paint some happy little clouds |
| 17:40.52 | TD-Linux | (@@) {oO} |
| 17:40.58 | TD-Linux | is bad at drawing :( |
| 17:50.04 | spldart | hehe |
| 17:50.20 | spldart | is about to coat his fingers in glorious spicy wing sauce :) |
| 17:51.50 | Winny | steals the wings and runs off |
| 17:52.03 | Winny | Wait, I have wings, I couild fly :o) |
| 17:53.26 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-75-36-38-29.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:53.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 17:53.32 | spldart | You''ll be spicy hot |
| 18:00.30 | donny_baker | is wearing his new hoodie o/ |
| 18:00.53 | Winny | donny_baker: pics! |
| 18:02.08 | Winny | Oh my... confusing: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12450 |
| 18:02.21 | Winny | " When a tank shoots, the shot does not have a specific location, but rather a probability distribution along a plane" |
| 18:06.10 | donny_baker | Winny: have to wait for someone to come home to take a pic... it's just me and my son |
| 18:06.33 | donny_baker | his pic taking abilities are challenged... we took 4 and they all sucked |
| 18:06.51 | Winny | ;) |
| 18:08.12 | L4m3r | donny_baker: I just used a tripod |
| 18:08.20 | L4m3r | and they STILL sucked |
| 18:08.35 | donny_baker | maybe it's the models ;) |
| 18:11.12 | L4m3r | indeed |
| 18:11.32 | L4m3r | chillin left before I could get her to model it for me :P |
| 18:11.52 | Winny | Mine are still at "Status: Electronic Shipping Info Received" :( |
| 18:15.37 | JeffM | L4m3r: is it cus she is too sexy for your shirt? |
| 18:15.51 | L4m3r | too small, maybe |
| 18:16.01 | JeffM | Winny: it was given to the post office at noonish |
| 18:17.12 | Winny | JeffM, ahh, so slow tracking |
| 18:17.24 | JeffM | yeah they arn't always "swift" on tracking info |
| 18:17.28 | JeffM | for that UPS they ain't |
| 18:17.53 | JeffM | the stats you have now is what was put in the system when I printed the label |
| 18:18.11 | Winny | I bet they only track domestic packages or something |
| 18:19.30 | Winny | That's that Canada post did/does |
| 18:23.48 | *** join/#bzflag jnd (n=jenda@unaffiliated/jnd) |
| 18:24.19 | jnd | hello, we have rejoining tker on rabbit map, any admin can ban him? |
| 18:24.47 | whodaman- | Dessy, ping ^^ |
| 18:24.56 | Dessy | ya? |
| 18:24.59 | whodaman- | read up |
| 18:25.01 | whodaman- | your server |
| 18:25.17 | Dessy | wich? |
| 18:25.21 | whodaman- | ... |
| 18:25.22 | whodaman- | rabbit |
| 18:25.24 | Dessy | ahh |
| 18:25.26 | whodaman- | on HiX |
| 18:26.19 | spldart | poopies |
| 18:26.40 | Dessy | banned him |
| 18:26.50 | jnd | thanks |
| 18:27.10 | spldart | meh too late |
| 18:31.23 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@pool-72-93-105-64.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:31.54 | spldart | Ah beer.... it adds to the desire but takes away from the performance... |
| 18:32.05 | spldart | paraphrase from what MORE classical work? |
| 18:32.06 | spldart | heheh |
| 18:40.48 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-203-183.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:53.46 | Winny | Is there a way to list out all the processes a user is running? |
| 18:54.01 | JeffM | ps should have an option |
| 18:55.03 | jftsang | Winny, on Windows it's tasklist |
| 18:55.16 | Winny | jftsang, I need to do it over SSH |
| 18:56.00 | JeffM | sudo -u USER ps ;) |
| 18:56.07 | Winny | wait, found it |
| 18:56.16 | Winny | top -> u <username> |
| 18:56.24 | JeffM | that would be interactive |
| 18:56.27 | JeffM | ps will list them |
| 18:56.34 | JeffM | ps -U user will too |
| 18:56.54 | *** join/#bzflag jwir3 (n=jwir3@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 18:57.05 | spldart | heh.. glad I'm not5 worrying about multi user ssh yet hehe |
| 18:57.37 | Winny | JeffM, ok thanks :) |
| 19:00.19 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr_ (n=Lukstr@206-248-161-221.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 19:10.12 | AAA_awright | Single sign-in for phpbb proves to be tricky |
| 19:22.22 | *** join/#bzflag Archangel_13 (n=kevin@71-17-127-204.estv.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 19:29.46 | Winny | JeffM: haha @ http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=122742#122742 |
| 19:29.49 | Winny | ~JeffM++ |
| 19:30.13 | donny_baker | pics: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=122743#122743 |
| 19:30.40 | Winny | :D |
| 19:30.45 | JeffM | I think I'll get an olive one next time |
| 19:30.48 | JeffM | it came out good |
| 19:30.53 | jftsang | hah |
| 19:31.04 | whodaman- | R0fo |
| 19:31.05 | whodaman- | err |
| 19:31.07 | whodaman- | rofl |
| 19:31.08 | whodaman- | @ jeff |
| 19:31.51 | donny_baker | i am actually wearing the olive shirt now... got to hot for the hoodie |
| 19:31.57 | JeffM | heh |
| 19:32.12 | JeffM | next time I'll offer a number of colors |
| 19:32.18 | JeffM | cus I'll do shirt pre-orders |
| 19:32.38 | JeffM | have to see how long it takes to sell these tho |
| 19:32.47 | Think_Differentl | wants an olive shirt |
| 19:32.49 | JeffM | they ain't exactly flying off the shelves |
| 19:32.58 | Winny | JeffM: how many sold so far? |
| 19:33.39 | JeffM | let me think |
| 19:34.02 | JeffM | 7 hoodies |
| 19:34.25 | JeffM | and 9 shirts |
| 19:34.29 | jftsang | does BZFlag even support quantum physics> |
| 19:34.31 | Winny | how many printed? |
| 19:34.59 | Winny | jftsang: anything can support anything, it's just a matter of writing it |
| 19:35.33 | Think_Differentl | Winny, except when you have hardware limitations |
| 19:35.51 | Winny | Where did I mention those? :) |
| 19:35.56 | jftsang | does it use Newtonian gravity or General Relativity? |
| 19:36.09 | JeffM | I have like 33 gray shirts left I think |
| 19:36.32 | Think_Differentl | I suppose I should buy a grey and then wait for a printing of the olive ones :P |
| 19:37.00 | JeffM | Think_Differentl: the more gray you buy the sooner we can do a reprint ;) |
| 19:37.14 | catay | JeffM: do you have any idea what the shipping cost is to Europe ? |
| 19:37.33 | JeffM | catay: for a single shirt 11$ usd |
| 19:37.43 | JeffM | so like 5 euros I think |
| 19:37.46 | JeffM | or maybe 6 |
| 19:38.07 | catay | the store calculates that too ? |
| 19:38.29 | Think_Differentl | the small shirts seem pretty big from the measurements. |
| 19:38.42 | JeffM | catay: paypal wil |
| 19:38.51 | Winny | Think_Differentl, then shink it |
| 19:38.53 | JeffM | catay: basicly a shirt shiped to you is like 15 euros |
| 19:39.12 | JeffM | I've been told that is similar to buying a printed shirt in a local store |
| 19:39.49 | JeffM | Think_Differentl: the girl in the picture is wearing the small |
| 19:39.50 | catay | yeah, it's a decent price |
| 19:39.54 | catay | i'll order one too :) |
| 19:40.09 | JeffM | htey arn't child sized or anything |
| 19:40.26 | JeffM | child sizes would be hard, the logo on the back is too big |
| 19:40.46 | brlcad | woot, a donny_baker |
| 19:40.57 | JeffM | brlcad: yours shoudl be there soon too |
| 19:40.59 | Think_Differentl | yeah, I was just wondering, since the description said only for kids and babies. :P |
| 19:41.11 | JeffM | Think_Differentl: well that's just me being stupid |
| 19:41.48 | JeffM | the small was tight on her, for baggyness she should have worn a medium |
| 19:42.13 | JeffM | I think she was trying to minimise wrinkles |
| 19:42.20 | brlcad | JeffM: yeah, I went to check last night -- I had a message that my mailbox was full, so I suspect it's there |
| 19:42.23 | JeffM | so she'd have to photoshop out less |
| 19:42.28 | JeffM | brlcad: hah |
| 19:42.44 | brlcad | only checks his mail iff he's expecting something .. so only a couple times a year |
| 19:42.47 | JeffM | you gonna send in pictures of you in the sleeveless? |
| 19:43.16 | brlcad | heh, mebbie |
| 19:43.56 | JeffM | I do hope my international flat rate envelopes arrive soon |
| 19:44.12 | JeffM | I can't use the bags for international at the 11$ price :( |
| 19:47.57 | JeffM | I do have a feeling I printed too many mediums |
| 19:50.12 | spldart | most dudes are L and XL |
| 19:51.24 | ruskie | <-- is xxxl |
| 19:51.27 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:51.33 | JeffM | but we do have a lot of younger players |
| 19:51.47 | JeffM | I'm guessing they voted in the poll with no ability to buy |
| 19:51.51 | spldart | yeah... but I was worried about the med. count |
| 19:52.00 | JeffM | nex time I'll shift it up a size |
| 19:52.14 | JeffM | I mean I've alrady got requests for more XXXL |
| 19:52.19 | spldart | well your next print can compensate.. I'll be buying more than that one myself hehe |
| 19:52.40 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:52.50 | JeffM | I did only order 4 smalls |
| 19:52.55 | JeffM | and I think that was appropriate |
| 19:53.48 | *** join/#bzflag gina (n=gina@181.55-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:54.10 | spldart | hrm.. I have two teenage daughters that could wear mediums.. a bit baggie... and stuff |
| 19:54.23 | gina | oi |
| 19:54.38 | spldart | I'm getting tired of them wearing shirts that are to small and tight anyway |
| 19:54.44 | spldart | yeesh |
| 19:54.45 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-32 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 19:55.21 | ruskie | lol |
| 19:57.47 | gina | hehe spldart get used to it, it's unavoidable:) |
| 19:58.08 | spldart | And increasing my grey rate.. have 4 daughters and 1 son |
| 19:58.13 | JeffM | we are down to 260$ :( |
| 19:58.19 | gina | ow |
| 19:59.26 | L4m3r | reluctantly posts his pic in Donny's thread |
| 19:59.52 | Winny | hehe |
| 20:01.06 | Winny | the hoodies were pre-order only, right? |
| 20:01.15 | L4m3r | yup |
| 20:01.15 | spldart | last I heard |
| 20:01.22 | L4m3r | so you'll have to wait for the next printing |
| 20:01.27 | spldart | I'm in for one of those too |
| 20:01.31 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 20:01.34 | spldart | in a week or so |
| 20:01.49 | spldart | ... when the next special order happens |
| 20:01.50 | L4m3r | I might order another... if they have a thicker hoodie to print it on |
| 20:02.19 | *** part/#bzflag gina (n=gina@181.55-240-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 20:09.11 | AAA_awright | Yeah! Got single-sign on working for phpBB |
| 20:10.43 | blast007 | AAA_awright: with ldap? |
| 20:11.05 | AAA_awright | No |
| 20:12.00 | AAA_awright | It doesn't make sense with what I am testing |
| 20:12.33 | AAA_awright | I implemented a single sign in system with MediaWiki and phpBB, that is, if you are logged into the list server, you are logged into phpBB and mediaWiki as well. |
| 20:13.31 | AAA_awright | Each authentication plugin doesn't look at databases, it directly calls a custom API on the list server, which right uses a MySQL backend, though there is no reason it couldn't use an LDAP backend. |
| 20:14.14 | AAA_awright | blast007: Want to see? |
| 20:19.52 | AAA_awright | Anyone care to see the working test? |
| 20:21.12 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@cpe-75-82-214-44.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:23.38 | AAA_awright | Now to work on the token store... |
| 20:24.39 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (i=KingofCa@SCT-49-137.resnet.ucsb.edu) |
| 20:28.28 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumT1m (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:30.23 | AAA_awright | http://aaa.busyflag.org/db/ works as a semi-functional list server |
| 20:30.39 | AAA_awright | blast007: Ping? |
| 20:44.45 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM_ (n=JeffM@cpe-75-82-214-44.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:44.58 | spldart | Oh Sweet.. the eldest daughter just walked in with the Ark of Truth |
| 20:45.00 | spldart | woohoo |
| 20:46.53 | Winny | spldart: is that like a World of Warcraft thing? :p |
| 20:47.43 | spldart | :-p It's a StarGate thing :~P |
| 20:51.03 | Winny | bah, was close |
| 20:51.06 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 20:53.52 | *** join/#bzflag Archangel_13 (n=kevin@71-17-127-204.estv.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 20:55.33 | *** join/#bzflag zee524 (n=52d2b87f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-e1aee095409f7d2d) |
| 20:58.22 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-061-030.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:10.40 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-203-183.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:12.10 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (i=KingofCa@SCT-49-137.resnet.ucsb.edu) |
| 21:12.51 | spldart | Trunk... Are either -public or -publicaddr required for lan game? ... |
| 21:13.06 | JeffM_ | no |
| 21:13.16 | spldart | hrm |
| 21:13.26 | JeffM_ | did you change the port? |
| 21:13.34 | spldart | running on 5154 |
| 21:13.44 | spldart | wanted to test this server communication error thing |
| 21:13.47 | JeffM_ | should show |
| 21:13.56 | JeffM_ | or just enter the lanIP |
| 21:14.17 | spldart | It's showing on the hosting machine but not another.. and I manually entered the ip on the remote client rig but it's not connecting |
| 21:14.23 | spldart | I must be brainfarting somewhere |
| 21:14.43 | Winny | I'd hope it's happening in your brain :) |
| 21:14.51 | JeffM_ | firewalls? |
| 21:15.14 | spldart | inside local lan |
| 21:15.20 | spldart | heheh |
| 21:15.22 | spldart | @ winny |
| 21:16.52 | *** join/#bzflag mib_a9eimj (i=7dec8651@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ecbb38b0485abaf8) |
| 21:24.59 | spldart | Odd.. can't get my windows trunk client to connect the the linux trunk server with the linux trunk client |
| 21:29.11 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 21:29.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:29.55 | spldart | I did discover this... local game using trunk... No lag message and no server error messages |
| 21:30.03 | spldart | at least so far |
| 21:33.31 | mib_a9eimj | when you're preparing to compile bzflag 2.0.x, how do you get windows server 03 and directX april to work with MSVC? |
| 21:36.30 | mib_a9eimj | pacman? |
| 21:38.45 | spldart | Jeff maybe back soon and he could also potentially cover this query... sit tight for a bit.. it can sometimes get a bit slow in here |
| 21:39.13 | mib_a9eimj | jeff's getting tired of me :P |
| 21:39.17 | pacman87 | mib_a9eimj: you have to add the headers to the paths |
| 21:39.23 | pacman87 | so msvc knows where to look |
| 21:39.39 | pacman87 | is on linux atm, so i |
| 21:39.52 | pacman87 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.52 | mib_a9eimj | isn't sure what you mean |
| 21:40.09 | spldart | vc8 mib? |
| 21:40.15 | mib_a9eimj | yes |
| 21:40.30 | pacman87 | how do i enable pm's again? |
| 21:40.40 | spldart | did you get your includes linked? and the libs?> |
| 21:41.09 | mib_a9eimj | i got my libcurl linked, but not any of the SDKs |
| 21:41.14 | spldart | Ah |
| 21:41.28 | spldart | I can help a bit... so can the README in the trunk code but lemme try |
| 21:41.32 | pacman87 | you need to add the binary paths and the header paths |
| 21:42.05 | spldart | tools/options/ expand 'projects and solutions' and click vc++ directories |
| 21:42.39 | spldart | top right set to executable files |
| 21:42.42 | Lukstr|Laptop | is back |
| 21:42.58 | spldart | make sure to add C:\Program Files\Microsoft Platform SDK for Windows Server 2003 R2\Bin but if your vista modify that path |
| 21:43.16 | spldart | Now change top right to Include files |
| 21:43.24 | Lukstr|Laptop | spldart, did you shoot anyone? :P |
| 21:43.48 | spldart | C:\Program Files\Microsoft Platform SDK for Windows Server 2003 R2\Include and C:\Program Files\Microsoft DirectX SDK (April 2007)\Include |
| 21:43.55 | mib_a9eimj | make sure to add ..., how do i add? |
| 21:43.55 | spldart | Me shoot anywhine??? |
| 21:44.22 | Lukstr|Laptop | anywhiskey |
| 21:44.29 | spldart | once the pull down on top right is set correctly click the folder thingy just below it and you can add stuff |
| 21:45.02 | mib_a9eimj | do i add under exe files or include? |
| 21:45.14 | spldart | and top right set to library files add : C:\Program Files\Microsoft DirectX SDK (April 2007)\Lib\x86 and C:\Program Files\Microsoft Platform SDK for Windows Server 2003 R2\Lib |
| 21:45.29 | whodaman- | Does anyone know where I can find the source for the TimeLimit.so plugin |
| 21:45.38 | spldart | Look @ what I typed.. you add one to the exe.. two to the include and two to the library |
| 21:46.18 | spldart | make sure the paths are right for you |
| 21:46.28 | spldart | don't use x86 if your are on a 64 arch machine |
| 21:46.38 | spldart | and don't use my paths if your on vista it's different |
| 21:46.44 | spldart | but they will be similar |
| 21:47.03 | pacman87 | ~spldart++ |
| 21:47.15 | spldart | and from that point I can't help cuz branch requires some differences in setup.. like needing libcurl |
| 21:47.40 | spldart | thankies.. I'm trying |
| 21:49.25 | spldart | No whiskey luckstr.. just alotta beer |
| 21:49.29 | spldart | and some spicy hot wings |
| 21:50.19 | spldart | Anyone ever setup a lan game in trunk yet? |
| 21:50.45 | spldart | I'm not getting connects to an instance of BZFS on a linux rig on my local switch |
| 21:52.45 | spldart | Well.. except for the local host can connect to itself using name.workgroup |
| 21:53.02 | spldart | ooOOoo.. I have an experiment |
| 21:53.21 | mib_a9eimj | yay, i got it, thanks |
| 21:53.34 | spldart | WooHoo! yay |
| 21:53.38 | spldart | :~) |
| 21:53.48 | mib_a9eimj | building is working too :) |
| 21:54.06 | spldart | coolies |
| 21:54.10 | mib_a9eimj | MapMaking: Does anyone know what _teleportTime does? |
| 21:54.56 | spldart | >aforementioned local hosting query... btw I can connect with both name.workgroup and 192.168.0.x as well.. but still no other machines on the same switch can |
| 21:56.01 | spldart | mib all I could find readily is http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=122394&sid=95d64c939c4d18c353758dc97ce7c7a6 |
| 21:57.12 | mib_a9eimj | heh that's my post :) |
| 21:57.15 | spldart | lol |
| 21:57.32 | mib_a9eimj | but i guess the guy must be right |
| 21:57.52 | spldart | He's pretty knowledgable.. Try JeffM or brlcad if they become active |
| 21:58.23 | spldart | JeffM is often very active and has a very broad grasp of how the code works |
| 21:59.02 | mib_a9eimj | yea |
| 21:59.07 | Winny | And he doesn't even smell! |
| 21:59.12 | mib_a9eimj | i think he's getting annoyed of me too |
| 21:59.13 | spldart | hehe |
| 21:59.27 | spldart | Unlike me.. I smell like a brewery |
| 21:59.29 | Constitution | or just look in the code |
| 21:59.38 | mib_a9eimj | const! |
| 22:00.06 | Constitution | hi |
| 22:00.06 | Lukstr|Laptop | spldart, a wonderful parfum |
| 22:00.17 | Winny | s/parfum/perfume/ |
| 22:00.33 | spldart | Odoriferous eminations |
| 22:00.38 | mib_a9eimj | const = archenemy |
| 22:01.03 | spldart | Man.. I have a question I need to ask a high level dev in private but none are talking right now so I don't wanna bleep them with a pm hehe |
| 22:01.19 | Constitution | mib_a9eimj: and who might you be? |
| 22:01.58 | brlcad | teleportTime is just a failsafe to make teleporting laggy clients behave reasonably |
| 22:02.07 | brlcad | i.e. it doesn't really do anything useful for you |
| 22:02.13 | mib_a9eimj | oh |
| 22:02.15 | Winny | spldart: there's one! get him! |
| 22:02.26 | mib_a9eimj | talk in pm const |
| 22:02.26 | brlcad | and almost certaily doesn't do what you'd hope that variable might do |
| 22:03.12 | mib_a9eimj | uh oh, in my building it keeps getting 'possible loss of data, size_t to int' |
| 22:04.37 | brlcad | not likely losing any data unless you're making insanely massive worlds |
| 22:05.26 | mib_a9eimj | i'm also getting the ocassional 'include\curlmanager.h(22) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'curl/curl.h': No such file or directory' |
| 22:05.34 | mib_a9eimj | am i missing something to open it? |
| 22:07.04 | pacman87 | mib_a9eimj: did you add teh libcurl headers too? |
| 22:07.13 | pacman87 | same process as adding the SDK's |
| 22:07.23 | spldart | He said he did.. I thought |
| 22:07.35 | mib_a9eimj | i THOUGHT i did |
| 22:07.43 | pacman87 | under 'include'? |
| 22:08.02 | pacman87 | or 'headers' |
| 22:08.02 | mib_a9eimj | i followed the usage instructions of libcurl, maybe that's not all? |
| 22:08.29 | pacman87 | did you get the dev version, or a release? |
| 22:08.41 | mib_a9eimj | release |
| 22:08.49 | pacman87 | dev version probably has the headers |
| 22:08.54 | pacman87 | i dont think release does |
| 22:09.23 | pacman87 | did you check to see if you actually have a curl.h file? |
| 22:09.55 | mib_a9eimj | where? |
| 22:10.10 | pacman87 | whereever you put the rest of the curl stuff |
| 22:10.16 | mib_a9eimj | i have zlib.h and zconf.h |
| 22:10.30 | pacman87 | that's just for zlib |
| 22:10.36 | pacman87 | where's libcURL? |
| 22:14.08 | spldart | has some reading to catch up on |
| 22:14.23 | brlcad | there's a copy of all our external deps in src/other |
| 22:14.35 | brlcad | otherwise it should autodetect any system-installed version |
| 22:14.51 | brlcad | and only build the sources we provide if no system-installed was found |
| 22:17.19 | spldart | He is doin branch. fyi in case anyone didn't remember |
| 22:20.33 | brlcad | ah, then best of luck :) |
| 22:21.15 | brlcad | pulls out the mixer and some liquors and works up something delicious |
| 22:21.57 | mib_a9eimj | pacman87/spldart: so how do i do the same thing with libcurl? |
| 22:22.25 | pacman87 | the libcurl directory shoudl have self-explanitory folders |
| 22:22.32 | pacman87 | add them as you added the SDK stuff |
| 22:29.17 | spldart | w0rd.. sry I'm kinda sucked into catch up work.. bbl |
| 22:31.40 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 22:34.09 | Winny | Is port 1 used for anything usually? |
| 22:36.59 | Constitution | TCP Port Service Multiplier :P |
| 22:37.13 | ndim | Multiplexer. |
| 22:37.14 | Constitution | multiplexer, rather |
| 22:40.52 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 22:47.16 | *** join/#bzflag jwir3 (n=jwir3@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 22:48.29 | jwir3 | hi everyone |
| 22:50.04 | Flash | can someone tell me what it means to "preload" a font? |
| 22:51.22 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 22:51.47 | mib_a9eimj | what causes this: error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol |
| 22:52.40 | Flash | mib_a9eimj: because the linker was looking for a symbol it couldn't find |
| 22:52.47 | Flash | did you have compile errors? |
| 22:52.57 | Flash | or is some library not installed |
| 22:54.40 | mib_a9eimj | hold on-trying again |
| 22:56.20 | mib_a9eimj | build failed, 5 errors |
| 22:56.38 | Flash | compile errors or link errors? |
| 22:56.49 | mib_a9eimj | error LNK2001 etc |
| 22:57.00 | Flash | what symbols? |
| 22:57.23 | mib_a9eimj | quite a few e.g. bzflag.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol __imp__RegCreateKeyExA@36 referenced in function "int __cdecl myMain(int,char * *)" (?myMain@@YAHHPAPAD@Z) |
| 22:57.43 | pacman87 | i know the workaround for that |
| 22:57.51 | pacman87 | hang on while i find it |
| 22:58.34 | ndim | Five letters, and starts with "L"? |
| 22:58.48 | spldart | lol |
| 22:58.52 | Lukstr|Laptop | wrong |
| 22:58.58 | Lukstr|Laptop | that's three letters, ndim |
| 22:59.00 | Lukstr|Laptop | er |
| 22:59.01 | Lukstr|Laptop | spldart |
| 22:59.06 | pacman87 | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12339&highlight= |
| 22:59.11 | Flash | vanna, can I buy a vowel? |
| 22:59.22 | spldart | LOLx2 |
| 22:59.23 | pacman87 | see my post there |
| 23:00.11 | spldart | ~pacman87++ |
| 23:00.24 | whodaman- | ~Constitution++ |
| 23:02.24 | Flash | FontManager has a rebuild() function, that for each font face/size calls clear() then preloadSize(). |
| 23:02.35 | Flash | clear() deletes the font for the size |
| 23:02.48 | Flash | preloadSize() does nothing if the font for the size doesn't exist |
| 23:03.02 | Flash | I'm missing something.... what is is trying to accomplish? |
| 23:05.41 | mib_a9eimj | OMG successful build |
| 23:06.19 | whodaman- | hehe |
| 23:06.31 | catay | ndim: you are missed somewhere :P |
| 23:06.49 | whodaman- | looks at ##kierra ;) |
| 23:06.54 | ndim | catay: Where? |
| 23:07.19 | Flash | notices a rope lease trailing behind ndim |
| 23:07.48 | catay | hehe |
| 23:07.56 | Flash | *leash |
| 23:17.54 | Lukstr|Laptop | my girlfriend is playing pokemon blue on super gameboy :( |
| 23:21.20 | *** join/#bzflag JVChatSpellCheck (n=JVChatSp@p57A0C6B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:22.17 | Flash | risks a reboot trying his patch without the second monitor safetynet |
| 23:23.10 | Flash | ooooooh. Fonts look very bad on resize |
| 23:24.08 | Flash | no that won't do |
| 23:24.17 | Flash | questions his ability to read code |
| 23:25.54 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@cpe-75-82-214-44.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 23:29.53 | Flash | hmmmm. maybe I didn't break it |
| 23:30.15 | Flash | anyone have a 2.99 client? |
| 23:31.51 | Flash | is there any reason why a font size needs to be deleted because the window size changed? Shouldn't the window just draw with a smaller font? |
| 23:36.04 | SpazzyMcGee | group defs don't transform physics drivers do they? |
| 23:46.29 | JeffM | it won't change the vectors of it if it's a movement one, no |
| 23:48.17 | blast007 | JeffM: would you recommend installing the latest PSDK and DX SDX if I'm using Visual Studio 2003? |
| 23:48.31 | JeffM | platform yes |
| 23:48.37 | JeffM | dx, april 2007 |
| 23:48.38 | JeffM | no later |
| 23:48.41 | blast007 | k |
| 23:49.06 | JeffM | at least untill we rewrite the stick to use DX8 |
| 23:55.03 | Wyk3d1 | what could be the problem if a DLL is not being linked at load time but i've linked the import library and I call exported functions ? .. the app starts but crashes at the first call to such a function |
| 23:57.28 | JeffM | Wyk3d1, same compiler and runtimes? |
| 23:58.51 | Wyk3d1 | what do you mean ? |
| 23:58.53 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM_ (n=JeffM@cpe-75-82-214-44.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:59.40 | JeffM_ | Wyk3d1, same compiler and runtimes? |