| 00:01.40 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16838 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsMessages.cxx: ws; free that which you have malloc'ed |
| 00:03.13 | whodaman | ~dtremenak++ |
| 00:03.18 | Think_Differentl | hehe |
| 00:08.10 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16839 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsMessages.cxx: attack the noncompliant braces; that which has been malloc'ed should be free'd not delete'd. |
| 00:08.27 | *** part/#bzflag Rope (n=Rope@host145-86-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 00:13.30 | spldart | Your on quite the coding tear dtr |
| 00:13.42 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16840 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (bzfs.cxx bzfsMessages.cxx): speling |
| 00:19.51 | JeffM | DTRemenak fights for freedom. He'll never give up. DTRemenak is always there.... |
| 00:20.48 | spldart | My bad on earlier statement.. It's getting warnings only.. seems to build with debug off.. :) DTR is really kicking some butt right? :-D |
| 00:21.12 | DTRemenak | hm, getting warnings? |
| 00:21.32 | spldart | yeah not biggie. I'm stopping here http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m43b8503f |
| 00:21.42 | JeffM | hmmm I don't know what to do about the time thingy |
| 00:21.49 | spldart | But Since your doin alot of stuff just go right on with your bad self |
| 00:21.54 | spldart | :~D |
| 00:22.08 | DTRemenak | ah, that's what I get for fixing jeff's spelling...shadows :P |
| 00:22.10 | spldart | I turned off debug and it's building |
| 00:22.23 | JeffM | see, it was on porpose! |
| 00:22.35 | blast007 | hehe |
| 00:25.52 | spldart | hopes he didn't break dtr's concentration |
| 00:26.34 | spldart | He's dead Jim... |
| 00:26.46 | DTRemenak | is not quite sure what all this is for |
| 00:27.22 | JeffM | if it's the deque stuff, it's only there cus you said to use one instead of what I was doing |
| 00:27.36 | DTRemenak | no, incoming messages |
| 00:27.54 | DTRemenak | you have a member for them, that you never wrote to, but you do clean up |
| 00:28.11 | DTRemenak | and you have a function that takes a message list, writes to it, and sends it back |
| 00:28.29 | DTRemenak | so I'm not quite sure what you intended to happen |
| 00:28.35 | JeffM | future expansion mayhaps? |
| 00:29.49 | *** join/#bzflag javawizard2539_ (n=javawiza@c-24-10-227-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:30.06 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@port-92-195-5-32.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 00:30.21 | *** join/#bzflag chaoscon (n=jeremy@smartserv/ceo/chaoscon) |
| 00:31.35 | DTRemenak | and receive is not really buffered at all. oh well. |
| 00:31.47 | JeffM | if it's not used, pull it |
| 00:32.03 | DTRemenak | yup, that's what I did. building now to see if it's good or not |
| 00:32.30 | spamrams | hye jeffM, some problems .. |
| 00:33.11 | JeffM | ? |
| 00:33.22 | spamrams | My modify texture now changes the texture of an ID |
| 00:33.22 | JeffM | god I miss incredibuild |
| 00:33.31 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16841 10/trunk/bzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): as the man says, if it's not used, pull it |
| 00:33.39 | JeffM | spamrams: did you ditch an invalidate the old boundID? |
| 00:33.57 | spamrams | And the tankNode->setTexture(texture) is used everytime to wrap the texture |
| 00:34.03 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumTim (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:34.06 | JeffM | spamrams: yeah |
| 00:34.13 | spamrams | yeah precisely |
| 00:34.15 | JeffM | that isn't the GL id |
| 00:34.18 | spamrams | how to unbind it? |
| 00:34.18 | JeffM | that is the manager ID |
| 00:34.34 | JeffM | when you update the texture see if the boundID is not GL_INVALID_ID |
| 00:34.35 | JeffM | if it is |
| 00:34.38 | JeffM | free the bind |
| 00:34.46 | JeffM | glUnbindTexture or something |
| 00:34.52 | JeffM | then set it to GL_INVALID_ID |
| 00:35.05 | JeffM | then when it's needed again it'll be bound to GL from your data |
| 00:35.18 | spamrams | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m6a1e0fa8one sec |
| 00:35.28 | spamrams | Do i unbind it in this function? |
| 00:35.39 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16842 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ShotPath.h: shots don't need the base local player. Get them ready to move. |
| 00:36.07 | JeffM | if they are bound, then yes |
| 00:36.59 | spamrams | I am not getting it |
| 00:37.03 | spamrams | tankTexture = tm.getTextureID("camera",false); |
| 00:37.19 | spamrams | I call this before I call tankNode->setTexture() |
| 00:37.47 | JeffM | no, you need to call new texture |
| 00:37.48 | Flash | wasn't there a configure option to enable multi-threading, or is it always on by default? |
| 00:37.49 | JeffM | not getID |
| 00:38.03 | JeffM | newTexture returns an ID |
| 00:38.24 | JeffM | getTextureID will try to load a PNG file named camera |
| 00:38.44 | spamrams | yeah I add the texture in every simulation |
| 00:39.09 | JeffM | that is not good |
| 00:39.11 | JeffM | that is very slow |
| 00:39.16 | JeffM | you want to make a new texture |
| 00:39.25 | JeffM | then only modify it when it changes |
| 00:39.41 | spamrams | yeah initially I add the texture |
| 00:39.55 | spamrams | if its already there I change it |
| 00:40.37 | spamrams | and modifyTexture in turn calls newtexture |
| 00:40.40 | spamrams | if required |
| 00:40.43 | JeffM | you need to add an unbind to the OpenGLTexture |
| 00:40.50 | JeffM | or just destroy the old one when you modify |
| 00:41.07 | JeffM | ether of those will work |
| 00:41.15 | JeffM | but somehow you need to unbind the old GL id |
| 00:41.30 | JeffM | it's actualy tied to a list IIRC |
| 00:41.37 | spamrams | yeh in the modify function I have this line |
| 00:41.39 | spamrams | it->texture = texture; |
| 00:41.47 | spamrams | where texture is the new texture |
| 00:41.50 | JeffM | that does not destroy the old one |
| 00:42.03 | spamrams | so simply changung that woud not work? |
| 00:42.19 | JeffM | you are done with the old image, you must get rid of it |
| 00:42.19 | spamrams | where it is of imageInfo type |
| 00:42.27 | JeffM | or you will just keep allocating memory |
| 00:42.37 | spamrams | so I have this it->texture->unbind() |
| 00:42.53 | JeffM | or delete(it->texture) |
| 00:43.15 | JeffM | assuming that inbinds it |
| 00:43.20 | JeffM | if it dosn't you need to make it unbind |
| 00:43.53 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 00:43.56 | spamrams | so I need to have it->texture->unbind(); delete(it->texture); it->texture = new_texture; ? |
| 00:44.12 | JeffM | just delete it |
| 00:44.24 | JeffM | the destructor calls freeContext and that wil unbind it |
| 00:44.34 | spamrams | Ohh cool |
| 00:44.37 | JeffM | tho you are deallocating and allocating a lot |
| 00:44.43 | JeffM | it won't be as fast as just a mem copy |
| 00:44.50 | JeffM | cus your images are always the same sise right? |
| 00:44.56 | spamrams | yeah |
| 00:45.05 | spldart | ok.. ditched warnings and builds fine. Man I keep watching the errors and fixes I might start being able to fix some of the simple things myself :) |
| 00:45.11 | spamrams | so i just memcopy it? |
| 00:45.18 | JeffM | faster way would be to just callFreContext |
| 00:45.29 | JeffM | and then add a method to replace the data |
| 00:45.58 | spamrams | ohh okay..let me first try delete |
| 00:48.29 | spamrams | It still does not unbind it |
| 00:48.57 | JeffM | should |
| 00:48.59 | *** join/#bzflag Paul_PL (n=pawelbl6@chello087206115169.chello.pl) |
| 00:49.14 | JeffM | are all your images power of 2 and byte aligned? |
| 00:49.22 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16843 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: ws |
| 00:49.26 | Flash | brlcad: I'm trying to use the XCode project to build a clickable app and it complains that build/Development/BZFlag.app depends on itself |
| 00:49.43 | spamrams | When I try to wrap individual images |
| 00:49.46 | spamrams | they work |
| 00:49.57 | spamrams | in 2 separate executuions |
| 00:50.16 | spamrams | But when they are continuosly swapped it displays only one image |
| 00:50.50 | JeffM | you are deleting the OpenGLTexture? |
| 00:50.54 | spldart | can't... resist... any... longer..... |
| 00:51.01 | spldart | ~dtremenak++ |
| 00:51.15 | *** join/#bzflag bz26 (i=7dec8762@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4ebe5e28c085dbb6) |
| 00:51.37 | blast007 | hello bz26 |
| 00:51.44 | spamrams | yeah |
| 00:51.56 | spamrams | The image info stored has only a opengltexture right? |
| 00:52.11 | spamrams | I am deleting that |
| 00:52.16 | spamrams | before I add mine |
| 00:52.38 | JeffM | well you can also set the lastBoundID to be invalid |
| 00:52.41 | JeffM | that will force a rebind |
| 00:52.54 | JeffM | but I'd be prety sure it'd have to do that no mater what |
| 00:53.11 | brlcad | Flash: sounds like some uncleanness |
| 00:53.38 | Flash | aren't you the (only) one who made/uses it? |
| 00:53.40 | brlcad | suggest just starting fresh and/or svn revert -- see if you can isolate the problem |
| 00:53.53 | brlcad | I set it up, yes |
| 00:53.56 | spamrams | yeah I think its the lastBoundID thats causing me not to bind |
| 00:54.03 | brlcad | use it when we make the release |
| 00:54.16 | bz26 | hi |
| 00:54.27 | spamrams | where do I change it? in the modifytexture? |
| 00:54.28 | Flash | I updated my SDL so I want to build a new .app (usually, I've just been copying the executable to the right place) |
| 00:54.33 | JeffM | spamrams: set it be invalid |
| 00:54.33 | brlcad | otherwise don't use it for day to day dev, not needed (no point really) |
| 00:54.44 | spamrams | ok |
| 00:54.55 | JeffM | spamrams: are all your images power of 2 in size? |
| 00:54.58 | Flash | I haven't done much with XCode, but I can't see where the dependencies are |
| 00:55.21 | brlcad | Flash: then you'r a bit on your own :-) .. there are SDL dependencies in the xcode project that you'd also have to update |
| 00:55.31 | AHA | ~Constitution++ |
| 00:55.43 | brlcad | otherwise you don't need xcode to test if your changes work |
| 00:55.51 | Flash | it looks like the dependencies point to /Library/Frameworks/SDL.framework which is where my SDL is |
| 00:56.03 | brlcad | sounds about right |
| 00:56.09 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16844 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/OpenGLTexture.h src/ogl/OpenGLTexture.cxx): |
| 00:56.09 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: add method to allow for the replacement of image data with out memory free/new |
| 00:56.09 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: add methods to get the scaled sizes. |
| 00:56.12 | brlcad | then it copies those into the .app |
| 00:56.13 | Flash | I just replaced my existing framework |
| 00:56.25 | Flash | right, but I can't coerce XCode to build the app |
| 00:56.37 | Flash | because it thinks there is a circular dependency |
| 00:56.45 | brlcad | so reconstruct the target |
| 00:57.15 | brlcad | it works here is all I can say at the moment, it's not really a priority to keep xcode working all the time |
| 00:57.23 | Flash | of course |
| 00:57.43 | Flash | I was just hoping you might be able to point me to where it thinks it depends on itself |
| 00:57.45 | brlcad | it's not hard to make new targets |
| 00:58.07 | brlcad | not really -- you could select the target and see if it lists itself as a dep |
| 00:58.24 | brlcad | or look at the project text file directly |
| 00:58.41 | brlcad | maybe svn diff the project file to see if it's something you changed |
| 00:59.22 | Flash | can I revert the whole directory? |
| 00:59.32 | Flash | I never would have intentionally changed the project |
| 01:00.09 | bz26 | U seem a little busy but i'll ask anyway: In autopilot.cxx what does dotProd do? |
| 01:00.34 | JeffM | bz26: a dot product |
| 01:00.42 | spamrams | its still not working |
| 01:00.44 | brlcad | Flash: check to see if you did |
| 01:00.47 | brlcad | svn status |
| 01:00.52 | spamrams | let me put in pastebin what all have I done |
| 01:00.54 | brlcad | then svn revert or diff if you did |
| 01:01.05 | Flash | too late; I did an svn revert * |
| 01:01.14 | JeffM | bz26: it's a vector math function, returns the cosine of the angle between 2 vectors |
| 01:01.25 | brlcad | you'll likely need to restart xcode |
| 01:01.44 | JeffM | spamrams: sounds like it's time to step thru in the debuger |
| 01:01.45 | brlcad | you should get it working without xcode first |
| 01:01.47 | Flash | actually, I did change the project, because I noticed that the custom script enabled debug and I wanted to turn it off |
| 01:02.09 | Flash | well, I have a minor test that seems promising that I've already done outside XCode |
| 01:03.37 | spamrams | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m4459c85b |
| 01:04.07 | Flash | hmmm. Apparently the ./configure that XCode is doing has issues, because now it doesn't compile |
| 01:05.05 | Flash | oh, I bet I know. I have 10.5 and it doesn't include a universal SDK. I bet that has something to do with it (the XCode configure script turns on universal binaries) |
| 01:05.27 | JeffM | spamrams: you are going to have to debug it man |
| 01:05.49 | spamrams | okies and see what? |
| 01:05.57 | JeffM | spamrams: cus I think you'll find out what your problem is VERY fast |
| 01:06.23 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=Ride-@24-197-250-9.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) |
| 01:06.34 | JeffM | spamrams: step thru the code |
| 01:06.37 | JeffM | use your debuger |
| 01:08.33 | spamrams | Yeha I tried to debug it .. but I had some problems with KDEvelop . There are 3 binaries coming outta it and how do Istart all of them from KDevelop? |
| 01:08.55 | JeffM | spamrams: you don't need to start them al |
| 01:08.58 | JeffM | just bzflag |
| 01:09.03 | JeffM | run the server independently |
| 01:09.12 | spamrams | Ohh okies |
| 01:10.29 | spamrams | is there a prescribed IDE u guys work wit? |
| 01:10.40 | spamrams | or u use gdb? |
| 01:10.49 | JeffM | I don't use linux |
| 01:11.03 | spamrams | VC++ IDE? |
| 01:11.04 | JeffM | most of our linux devs use just command line stuff |
| 01:11.10 | JeffM | yes I use Visual C++ |
| 01:19.18 | JeffM | ugg, breaking shots away from players is going to suck.... |
| 01:20.12 | spamrams | and how do u develop on windows , I mean the make files and all configurations needed to run it? |
| 01:20.22 | JeffM | no |
| 01:20.29 | JeffM | visual C++ dosn't use the make system |
| 01:20.39 | JeffM | if you use mingw and msys it uses them |
| 01:20.45 | JeffM | but VC uses the VC make files |
| 01:20.52 | JeffM | in the msvc dir |
| 01:21.03 | spamrams | Ohhhh |
| 01:21.13 | spamrams | is there a dsw enviromnet there? |
| 01:21.16 | spamrams | in msvc? |
| 01:21.19 | JeffM | no |
| 01:21.25 | JeffM | dsw is for visual C++ 6.0 |
| 01:21.31 | JeffM | we no longer support 6 |
| 01:21.41 | JeffM | branch supports 7.1 and 8(mostly) |
| 01:21.54 | JeffM | trunk supports 7.1(mostly) 8.0, and 9(somewhat) |
| 01:21.55 | spamrams | ohhh |
| 01:24.20 | *** part/#bzflag spamrams (n=spamrams@senna.cc.gatech.edu) |
| 01:25.58 | JeffM | wonder if I should just write it from scratch? |
| 01:26.57 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 01:27.45 | JeffM | DTRemenak: didn't we talk about how we could probalby just combine all the strats into like one or 2? |
| 01:27.56 | DTRemenak | you said something about it |
| 01:28.09 | JeffM | was I right? ;) |
| 01:28.10 | DTRemenak | I didn't think it was a good idea, iirc |
| 01:28.16 | JeffM | ok |
| 01:28.24 | DTRemenak | but I don't remember why, so take that with a grain of salt :) |
| 01:28.28 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@69-196-131-250.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:28.30 | JeffM | there are a lot of links between the strat and drawing |
| 01:28.41 | Lukstr | get slammed with apps yet? |
| 01:29.03 | DTRemenak | we have twice as many as we did yesterday |
| 01:29.05 | jude- | hey Lukstr |
| 01:29.11 | Lukstr | jude-: hello :) |
| 01:29.18 | JeffM | we do? |
| 01:29.21 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 01:29.22 | JeffM | oh app |
| 01:29.29 | JeffM | not links to strat and drawing :) |
| 01:29.31 | JeffM | I got scared |
| 01:29.50 | jude- | DTRemenak: what's the count so far (if you don't mind revealing it)? |
| 01:29.57 | DTRemenak | four |
| 01:29.57 | Lukstr | that makes 4? |
| 01:30.38 | jude- | heh--I submitted about an hour ago :) |
| 01:30.53 | jude- | weren't there 52 last year? |
| 01:30.54 | Lukstr | jude-: applied for BZWB? |
| 01:31.00 | jude- | Lukstr: indeed |
| 01:31.06 | Lukstr | hurray |
| 01:31.13 | DTRemenak | notes to jude- that it's spelled "summary" not "summery" :) |
| 01:31.19 | jude- | lol |
| 01:31.22 | jude- | edits |
| 01:31.55 | JeffM | jude-: also throw an HTTP lin the links to further info |
| 01:32.03 | JeffM | cus right now it tries to go to googles server |
| 01:32.23 | jude- | JeffM: did |
| 01:32.34 | jude- | re-submits |
| 01:33.02 | jude- | hehe--Firefox didn't catch the "summery" |
| 01:33.26 | Lukstr | summery, is that like summerish? :P |
| 01:33.31 | DTRemenak | ~dict summery |
| 01:33.33 | DTRemenak | yup :) |
| 01:34.07 | JeffM | goes to pick up a pizza |
| 01:34.11 | JeffM | is away: those of us who are about to get wet... salute you. |
| 01:34.22 | spldart | Yay pizza! |
| 01:34.31 | Lukstr | nomnom |
| 01:34.52 | spldart | Pizza leftovers for breakfast this morning were nomnom |
| 01:35.06 | Lukstr | I had poached eggs on toast and ham |
| 01:35.08 | Lukstr | :) |
| 01:35.15 | spldart | Sounds good |
| 01:35.21 | Lukstr | every saturday! |
| 01:35.40 | jude- | Lukstr: you're in Europe somewhere, right? |
| 01:35.47 | Lukstr | Canada. |
| 01:35.53 | jude- | nm |
| 01:36.12 | jude- | was guessing by the times of day he has seen im |
| 01:36.13 | jude- | *him |
| 01:36.31 | Lukstr | That's a bad way to guess where I live ;) |
| 01:36.42 | Lukstr | I'm anything but normal hours |
| 01:36.51 | jude- | that's what threw the calculation :) |
| 01:37.46 | Lukstr | :D |
| 01:38.04 | jude- | have you applied yet? |
| 01:38.14 | Lukstr | yup |
| 01:38.18 | Lukstr | applied... a few days ago |
| 01:38.20 | jude- | which project? |
| 01:38.25 | Lukstr | libbzw |
| 01:38.29 | jude- | yay! |
| 01:38.39 | Lukstr | dun dun dunnn |
| 01:38.52 | Lukstr | I was hoping there'd be somebody working on BZWB :) |
| 01:38.55 | bz26 | a dev: how much c++ should i know in order to make bot code? |
| 01:39.00 | Lukstr | or at least, applied |
| 01:39.36 | jude- | Lukstr, we'll see--I'm weighing GSoC against an IBM internship right now (waiting for IBM to finalize their offer) |
| 01:39.36 | spldart | AI is advanced stuff |
| 01:39.44 | Lukstr | jude-: ah |
| 01:39.45 | spldart | Mr bz26 |
| 01:39.56 | spldart | if you can call it ai ;) |
| 01:39.56 | bz26 | AI is maths |
| 01:40.07 | Lukstr | jude-: I have a friend who currently works for cognos, which was bought by IBM |
| 01:40.08 | jude- | will go with the one that pays better :) |
| 01:40.17 | jude- | neat :) |
| 01:40.25 | Lukstr | yeah, it's a weird company. |
| 01:40.28 | Lukstr | they have tanks. |
| 01:40.31 | jude- | what kind of stuff? |
| 01:40.34 | jude- | defence contracting? |
| 01:40.35 | Lukstr | software |
| 01:40.36 | Lukstr | and.. tanks. |
| 01:40.39 | bz26 | but just to understand bzflag code, HOW advanced must i go in tutorials? |
| 01:40.48 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@207-177-229-17.dsl.redshift.com) |
| 01:40.59 | spldart | points dtr brlcad and jeffm @ bz26 |
| 01:41.23 | L4m3r | you're not going to learn C++ from online tutorials |
| 01:41.30 | bz26 | JeffM is getting pizza or soemthing |
| 01:41.35 | spldart | yeah |
| 01:41.35 | bz26 | not coming back until 30 minutes |
| 01:42.05 | Lukstr | bz26: what do you currently know? |
| 01:42.06 | spldart | l4mer is right though... |
| 01:42.17 | bz26 | a little bit about pointers |
| 01:44.46 | brlcad | mm.. pizza |
| 01:45.15 | bz26 | btw what does the gold star or sound image mean beside names? |
| 01:45.19 | jude- | goes to get dinner as well...be back in an hour or two |
| 01:47.16 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=Ride-@24-197-250-9.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) |
| 01:47.39 | undefined | can someone explain to me about dotProducts? |
| 01:47.49 | brlcad | heh |
| 01:48.01 | brlcad | ~google dot product |
| 01:48.05 | undefined | i tried |
| 01:48.09 | brlcad | try harder |
| 01:48.09 | Winny | Isn't that like multiplying together vectors or soemthing? |
| 01:48.10 | Ride- | no do a www.www.com |
| 01:48.16 | DTRemenak | undefined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_%28spatial%29 |
| 01:48.16 | Ride- | its a way better search |
| 01:48.23 | Winny | Ride-, no, it is not. |
| 01:48.47 | Ride- | well when you are search car insurance and car parts it is :D |
| 01:48.56 | undefined | in bzflag code, e.g. dotProduct = 0.1 is that in radians? |
| 01:50.17 | Winny | ehe |
| 01:52.58 | blast007 | apparently his name *was* defined, by someone else ;) |
| 01:53.29 | Lukstr | wanders off |
| 01:53.41 | spldart | wow... they list all the worst car insurances first |
| 01:53.55 | blast007 | spldart: lol... |
| 01:54.34 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16845 10/trunk/bzflag/ (4 files in 2 dirs): allow plugins to specify a memory location from which to read the world. handle direct stream input to BZWReader. |
| 01:55.30 | DTRemenak | documents on the wiki |
| 02:03.20 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@port-92-195-5-32.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:04.04 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@port-92-195-5-32.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:16.15 | JeffM | is back (gone 00:42:05) |
| 02:17.31 | JeffM | hah, radians |
| 02:17.59 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@port-92-195-5-32.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:18.19 | Winny | JeffM, what's with the away message? :E |
| 02:18.32 | JeffM | was whatever was last set on this system |
| 02:18.39 | whodaman- | loo |
| 02:18.42 | JeffM | probably when it was raining |
| 02:19.08 | spldart | mmMMmm pizza |
| 02:19.11 | JeffM | indeed |
| 02:19.13 | whodaman- | me wants! |
| 02:19.18 | JeffM | go get some |
| 02:19.22 | JeffM | you have legs |
| 02:19.28 | whodaman- | and a headache :\ |
| 02:19.29 | spldart | had pizza leftovers for breakfast |
| 02:20.50 | JeffM | man. I guess today is patron saint day for me again :( |
| 02:25.34 | whodaman- | ~blast007++ |
| 02:26.38 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@port-92-195-5-32.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 02:26.53 | JeffM | ok, so the general goal is to have shots use the same logic (as in same classes) for both client and server right? |
| 02:30.07 | blast007 | JeffM: we could have a libBullet! |
| 02:30.25 | JeffM | libgame |
| 02:30.26 | JeffM | ;) |
| 02:30.37 | JeffM | I'm worried about doing it all in one shot |
| 02:30.43 | JeffM | pun intended |
| 02:31.00 | JeffM | yanking out strat from client is going to be a huge pain |
| 02:31.19 | JeffM | I'm now thining of first just moving the current client shots to a single shot list, using the GUID stuff |
| 02:31.24 | JeffM | and making sure that works |
| 02:31.30 | JeffM | and just keeping a dumb list on the server |
| 02:31.47 | JeffM | then go and make a copy of strat that works on the server and keeps the server shots updated |
| 02:31.51 | JeffM | then make sure THAT works |
| 02:32.17 | JeffM | then finaly go and have the client use the new strat classes that arn't tied to all the drawing and stuff |
| 02:32.24 | spldart | hours and hours 'eh :-( |
| 02:32.37 | JeffM | days and days if I did it all at once |
| 02:32.45 | JeffM | and that I fear I'd not get done |
| 02:32.55 | spldart | hrm |
| 02:33.18 | JeffM | also greater likelyhood of major borkage |
| 02:33.51 | JeffM | wishes DTRemenak would stop eating pasta and playing COD4 and give his opinon ;) |
| 02:33.54 | spldart | Yeah.. sounds like it would be something you would splinter off of trunk for a while. finish coding up and merging back |
| 02:34.11 | JeffM | spldart: sure if I was like, relyable ;) |
| 02:34.24 | JeffM | we have to have the single shot list, with updatedable shots for 3.0 |
| 02:34.29 | spldart | hehehe. I understand the dilemna methinks |
| 02:34.38 | JeffM | we don't have to have the other stuff |
| 02:35.02 | JeffM | I also need updatable shots for my MG change I want to do :) |
| 02:35.37 | spldart | Gah.. you have to freeze portions of trunk while this was goin... and you'd need help |
| 02:36.15 | JeffM | or I could play wow |
| 02:36.32 | spldart | Hahaha.. Wow it is |
| 02:37.34 | JeffM | or play with camera |
| 02:37.53 | JeffM | likes 12x zoom action |
| 02:38.59 | spldart | I stopped thinking of camera's seriously since my old Olympus days decade+ ago |
| 02:39.28 | JeffM | http://picasaweb.google.com/JeffM2501/Crap/photo#5183242453324193394 <- from across the room |
| 02:40.06 | whodaman- | ~JeffM++ |
| 02:40.11 | whodaman- | for having Ocean's 13 :D |
| 02:40.15 | JeffM | hah |
| 02:40.17 | Winny | hehe |
| 02:40.22 | JeffM | was better then 12 |
| 02:40.26 | spldart | ooOOoo Gundam 0083 |
| 02:40.26 | whodaman- | yeah |
| 02:40.28 | whodaman- | worse than 11 |
| 02:40.28 | Winny | http://picasaweb.google.com/JeffM2501/Crap/photo#5183241499841453538 :o) |
| 02:40.37 | spldart | Wife says 'Nice Gundam' |
| 02:40.39 | whodaman- | lol |
| 02:40.42 | whodaman- | stop snooping |
| 02:40.45 | Winny | ;) |
| 02:40.57 | JeffM | yeah that'd be the desktop |
| 02:41.04 | KingofCamelot | Anyone happen to have a screenshot of the current server listing? Can't seem to get print-screen to work in-game. |
| 02:41.12 | Winny | KingofCamelot: f |
| 02:41.13 | Winny | err |
| 02:41.14 | Winny | f5 |
| 02:41.21 | JeffM | F5 dosn't work in menus |
| 02:41.24 | JeffM | KingofCamelot: what OS? |
| 02:41.27 | whodaman- | what OS? |
| 02:41.28 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 02:41.31 | whodaman- | bah JeffM |
| 02:41.35 | JeffM | ya all is slow |
| 02:41.38 | JeffM | ;) |
| 02:41.43 | whodaman- | ;) |
| 02:41.46 | KingofCamelot | Windows XP |
| 02:41.47 | JeffM | if it's windows, then ALT + print Screen |
| 02:41.50 | JeffM | then paste into pain |
| 02:41.50 | KingofCamelot | *Vista |
| 02:41.50 | KingofCamelot | lol |
| 02:41.56 | whodaman- | lol |
| 02:41.57 | JeffM | paint |
| 02:42.02 | JeffM | or some other image editor |
| 02:42.05 | KingofCamelot | alt? ah, I thought it was something like that |
| 02:42.08 | KingofCamelot | I tried shit and ctrl |
| 02:42.11 | KingofCamelot | but forgot alt :P |
| 02:42.21 | JeffM | that will always copy the window with focus to the clip |
| 02:43.00 | KingofCamelot | came out entirely black, heh |
| 02:43.24 | JeffM | odd |
| 02:43.25 | KingofCamelot | nevermind, now it works |
| 02:43.31 | KingofCamelot | not sure what went wrong the first time |
| 02:43.40 | Think_Differentl | Windows went wrong! |
| 02:43.41 | KingofCamelot | Thanks for the help :) |
| 02:43.49 | JeffM | sure |
| 02:47.13 | Lukstr | brb |
| 02:53.22 | *** join/#bzflag bier__ (n=bier@p54A578A6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:54.20 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@69-196-131-250.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 03:02.18 | JeffM | had totaly forgot about this, http://picasaweb.google.com/JeffM2501/Crap/photo#5183364602194091714 |
| 03:03.10 | brlcad | hadn't |
| 03:03.48 | JeffM | thinks picasa is kinda cool |
| 03:08.42 | KingofCamelot | finds talking in the third person fun |
| 03:09.40 | brlcad | finds it perfectly normal |
| 03:09.47 | JeffM | indeeds |
| 03:10.41 | Winny | also indeeds after JeffM |
| 03:11.22 | Winny | wonders who will mess up the chain first |
| 03:11.32 | AHA | me! |
| 03:11.34 | spldart | thinks not me |
| 03:11.48 | spldart | I didn't get a harumph from that man! |
| 03:12.35 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16846 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/customflagsample/ (3 files): make customflagsample actually do something, now that we don't crash when sending messages during flag events |
| 03:14.28 | whodaman- | AHA, fail :( |
| 03:14.36 | AHA | ;) |
| 03:14.38 | spldart | ~ftl |
| 03:15.02 | spldart | heh.. no argooon |
| 03:17.03 | *** join/#bzflag Homer23 (n=407a1145@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:17.17 | Homer23 | meno are u online? |
| 03:17.26 | Homer23 | heeellooo? |
| 03:17.30 | AHA | hi |
| 03:17.36 | Homer23 | hey aha |
| 03:17.46 | Homer23 | i need meno to add me |
| 03:17.58 | Homer23 | ur Heart Attack right? |
| 03:18.02 | AHA | ask in ##guleague |
| 03:18.02 | AHA | yes |
| 03:18.13 | Homer23 | mkkk |
| 03:18.28 | Homer23 | but im in web chat no irc |
| 03:18.39 | brlcad | wow JeffM .. you may actually have more dvds than I do |
| 03:18.40 | AHA | web chat is IRC |
| 03:18.55 | AHA | try typing: /join ##guleague |
| 03:18.55 | JeffM | 300 and something |
| 03:19.01 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT (i=etangent@inge069019.halls.colostate.edu) |
| 03:19.06 | brlcad | yeah, wow |
| 03:19.06 | Homer23 | i mean like ohh |
| 03:19.19 | Homer23 | the one u click on in BB |
| 03:19.35 | AHA | yes, that is IRC |
| 03:19.35 | eTangenT | 10 years later, it's eTangent! |
| 03:19.36 | AHA | this is IRC |
| 03:19.47 | AHA | uh-oh |
| 03:20.10 | Homer23 | it says access to Gu league is blocked |
| 03:20.35 | AHA | then get a real IRC client |
| 03:20.48 | whodaman- | I let them know, Homer23 |
| 03:20.50 | AHA | http://bzflagr.net/cgi-bin/irc.cgi or that one |
| 03:20.56 | whodaman- | just sit tight and check if it's done by tomorrow |
| 03:21.12 | Homer23 | oh ok ty |
| 03:21.45 | Homer23 | k cya |
| 03:24.31 | brlcad | howdy jude- |
| 03:25.01 | jude- | hey brlcad |
| 03:25.26 | brlcad | that's quite a writeup :) |
| 03:25.29 | brlcad | likes |
| 03:25.36 | brlcad | will take a while to take it all in though |
| 03:25.53 | brlcad | looks pretty good at a glance though |
| 03:26.04 | jude- | heh. thanks :) |
| 03:26.47 | JeffM | aww Muddu didn't respond back :( |
| 03:26.58 | JeffM | why did you give him crackers brlcad? |
| 03:27.07 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16847 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/Flag.cxx: ws |
| 03:27.24 | JeffM | was it cus he can overclock a GPU!? |
| 03:28.45 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16848 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: copy custom flag information into bzfs, so we won't crash if the plugin is unloaded. |
| 03:29.45 | brlcad | crackers? whowhat? |
| 03:29.54 | JeffM | the indian guy |
| 03:30.01 | brlcad | oh, he updated? |
| 03:30.10 | JeffM | he updated once |
| 03:30.19 | JeffM | and commented just for you ;) |
| 03:30.35 | JeffM | he changed "network penetration skills" to "can overclock a GPU" |
| 03:31.06 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:31.09 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16849 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/customflagsample/customflagsample.cpp: deregister our event handlers so we won't crash on exit if we've been unloaded |
| 03:31.36 | brlcad | well if there were more proposals, that one would be easily ignored :) |
| 03:31.52 | brlcad | this year is 'weird' |
| 03:32.04 | JeffM | very |
| 03:33.28 | L4m3r | not enough applicants/ |
| 03:33.30 | L4m3r | ? |
| 03:33.43 | JeffM | many less then last year |
| 03:33.47 | JeffM | all across the board |
| 03:33.50 | brlcad | they're about 1/4th to 1/5th the rate across the board for almost all projects |
| 03:34.08 | L4m3r | wow |
| 03:34.24 | jude- | very strange |
| 03:34.30 | L4m3r | that's hard to believe, especially with all the stories that have been posted to /. about it |
| 03:34.35 | L4m3r | when's the deadline for students? |
| 03:34.38 | brlcad | monday |
| 03:35.00 | L4m3r | ah, crap |
| 03:35.00 | jude- | I wonder if Google isn't saving them all, or some other techical problem? |
| 03:35.09 | jude- | *technical |
| 03:35.18 | L4m3r | or people are really procrastinating this time :P |
| 03:35.19 | JeffM | no, they have mentioned an extension |
| 03:35.22 | JeffM | the dates changed |
| 03:35.44 | brlcad | the best reasoning seems to be because of easter being the earliest its been in like 50 years, and spring breaks getting reorganized to accommodate, plus google cutting it from two weeks to one |
| 03:36.08 | jude- | that makes more sense :) |
| 03:36.20 | jude- | the last time Easter was this early was 1913 |
| 03:36.36 | brlcad | okay 95 years :) |
| 03:36.38 | JeffM | I just hope they don't announce the extension on tuesday |
| 03:36.53 | jude- | lol |
| 03:37.22 | brlcad | i suspect that by monday, we'd have 5 that would be great to work with |
| 03:37.34 | brlcad | it does make the turn-away suck much much less, that's for sure |
| 03:37.37 | brlcad | hated that last year |
| 03:37.42 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:38.00 | JeffM | but that's close to 1/10th of what we had last year |
| 03:38.04 | brlcad | has no problem telling the penetration dude to f-off |
| 03:38.54 | brlcad | have almost identical rate coming in for cad, with same mix of good/bad .. had to write one and say "WTF.. Seriously, WTF." |
| 03:39.48 | L4m3r | bummer |
| 03:41.35 | brlcad | there at least though I already have a decent idea of how many slots (much fewer) and almost know already who will be in the list |
| 03:41.43 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=james@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 03:42.36 | L4m3r | how many "really good" proposals are there thus far? |
| 03:44.52 | jude- | L4m3r: well, there's at least one bad one from someone talking about overclocking GPUs :) |
| 03:45.07 | L4m3r | yes, I think I've seen enough of that joke :P |
| 03:45.25 | JeffM | it really is on the application |
| 03:45.30 | JeffM | it's wiered |
| 03:45.40 | JeffM | his first draft was just a list of books he had read |
| 03:46.18 | L4m3r | well, when someone is paying out that much money, you're bound to get some hopeless/clueless candidates |
| 03:47.31 | jude- | money can be a powerful ally |
| 03:47.54 | DTRemenak | I'd say we have two that are quite well-thought-out, one that needs improvement, and one that's not going anywhere |
| 03:48.37 | JeffM | hah, I had totaly forgot about the best windows file extension name ever, the Warcraft Text File |
| 03:48.45 | jude- | lol |
| 03:56.17 | Think_Differentl | and the WTF folder inside of WoW |
| 03:56.22 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16850 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsMessages.cxx: ws |
| 04:01.36 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16851 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (bzfs.cxx bzfs.h bzfsAPI.cxx): PendingChatMessages was a workaround for one of the problems that BufferedNetworkMessage solves. Remove it. |
| 04:09.57 | Paul_PL | hello |
| 04:10.27 | jude- | hello |
| 04:11.10 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@207-177-229-17.dsl.redshift.com) |
| 04:11.11 | Paul_PL | I'm looking for some mentors |
| 04:11.19 | *** join/#bzflag Ps3 (n=181ef98f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-53d72d4710708ac7) |
| 04:11.41 | jude- | http://tanks4code.blogspot.com/ |
| 04:11.49 | jude- | under the Mentors panel |
| 04:12.55 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 04:12.57 | blast007 | Paul_PL: what's up? |
| 04:13.30 | DTRemenak | almost all of the mentors are here, you may ask whatevery you need to |
| 04:13.41 | Paul_PL | I updated my wiki |
| 04:13.57 | Paul_PL | with some technical details Jeff asked for |
| 04:14.27 | Paul_PL | I tried to keep it brief and don't know if it's enough |
| 04:14.39 | Paul_PL | so I was looking for some comments :) |
| 04:17.41 | Paul_PL | and I also wanted to know if the patch submit deadline is the same as for the proposals |
| 04:20.18 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude-@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net) |
| 04:22.50 | DTRemenak | I don't know that, sorry. I would suspect you some additional time after the application deadline. |
| 04:23.03 | DTRemenak | but you really need to ask brlcad about that |
| 04:23.24 | DTRemenak | regardless, it's not that tough to just do one now :) |
| 04:23.43 | DTRemenak | and you can always do a simple one now, and a fancier one later, if you so desire |
| 04:23.51 | DTRemenak | we aren't gonna turn away multiple patches :P |
| 04:24.50 | Paul_PL | I was going to fix a bug annoying me most but if it got lenghty i would have to do something else |
| 04:24.59 | Paul_PL | but thanks for the info |
| 04:25.58 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 04:27.02 | Paul_PL | +DTRemanak: I see that I missed an interesting discussion about the proposals before, is it possible to get to know how you judged mine? |
| 04:29.00 | DTRemenak | Paul_PL: yours is pretty good |
| 04:30.42 | Paul_PL | is there anything you would like me to improve/add? |
| 04:30.42 | DTRemenak | it would be interesting to see some mockups or something. from the application, I'm not entirely sure whether you fully understand the current limitations of our hud menu system, or if I am just lacking sufficient imagination to figure out what you're suggestiong :) |
| 04:32.33 | DTRemenak | we're fairly space-limited (there's a limit to how small the font can get while still being readable, especially on the semitransparent background), and we have a fairly limited input method (focus-based, keyboard only) |
| 04:33.27 | DTRemenak | so I guess a lot of the remaining questions I have basically boil down to "what is the user going to see at any given time" |
| 04:33.57 | DTRemenak | and is it going to be obvious to them what they have to do to get what they want |
| 04:34.46 | Paul_PL | I am trying to balance between functionality and easiness of use |
| 04:35.03 | pacman87 | wants to jump into the discussion but figures he should let Paul_PL finish his own app :) |
| 04:35.21 | jude- | pacman87: are you applying? |
| 04:35.27 | pacman87 | not for bzflag |
| 04:35.35 | jude- | which one? |
| 04:35.47 | pacman87 | BRL-CAD |
| 04:35.53 | jude- | oooh, fun! |
| 04:35.57 | pacman87 | (hopefully that won't ping him) |
| 04:35.59 | Paul_PL | I know there are users who just want to press one key a few times and start playing while others have some bigger requirements |
| 04:36.00 | DTRemenak | I do like your objectives though. one thing I'd like to see is some method of collapsing servers based on a common feature (like putting all the servers from a single domain into an expandable list, without creating a new tab) |
| 04:36.39 | pacman87 | tabs could keep <shift>+F# |
| 04:36.56 | pacman87 | since it's already used for the chat window in-game |
| 04:37.07 | DTRemenak | and I hope you're aware that the current code is just about indecipherable :) |
| 04:38.14 | Paul_PL | well I noticed it :) |
| 04:38.44 | DTRemenak | pacman87: you're welcome to jump in any time. if you've got questions about brl-cad, though, #brlcad is a better place to ask ;) |
| 04:39.08 | pacman87 | DTRemenak: i was referring specifically to the discussion about the new serverlist UI |
| 04:39.12 | DTRemenak | ah |
| 04:40.29 | pacman87 | this was from a week ago: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/bz_serverlist.bmp |
| 04:40.57 | DTRemenak | ah, totally didn't see that |
| 04:41.28 | pacman87 | mspaint ftw |
| 04:41.48 | Paul_PL | my idea would need more place for the server list |
| 04:42.23 | pacman87 | well, it could easily be 1/4 - 3/4 |
| 04:42.50 | pacman87 | player list = callsigns (+ scores), so that's narrow enough |
| 04:43.24 | pacman87 | and the server info is a bunch of attributes, which could also be in a narrow column |
| 04:43.59 | pacman87 | the server list panel would be the only area with user input |
| 04:44.58 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (i=Matthew@74.86.45.130) |
| 04:45.18 | Paul_PL | and what about some kind of sorting or filtering the results? |
| 04:45.33 | Paul_PL | where would you put it? |
| 04:45.53 | pacman87 | above or below the serverlist panel |
| 04:46.07 | Paul_PL | as by now my idea looks like this : http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Paul |
| 04:46.27 | pacman87 | reads |
| 04:47.35 | *** join/#bzflag bier__ (n=bier@p54A57060.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:49.29 | Paul_PL | +DTRemenak: what about the expandable list, would you see it as a shortcut function applied to the whole list basing on the active column? |
| 04:50.57 | pacman87 | Paul_PL: how do you plan to get the user input to the filter? |
| 04:51.18 | DTRemenak | yeah, I guess. i.e. if you sorted based on server domain, then you'd have a way to collapse all of the same-domain servers, and expand any given domain by scrolling to it |
| 04:53.19 | pacman87 | you could also put the filter settings next to the server settings |
| 04:53.40 | Paul_PL | +DTRemenak:hum, that wouldn't be so hard to add with the rest done |
| 04:53.53 | pacman87 | table style, with one column for the current server's settings, and another for what the filters are |
| 04:54.25 | pacman87 | since you want to be able to filter based on pretty much all of the server settings |
| 04:54.47 | Paul_PL | right above the headers for example? |
| 04:55.13 | pacman87 | what headers? |
| 04:56.21 | Paul_PL | column headers like name, map, free places |
| 04:56.42 | pacman87 | i'm thinking of the transpose of that |
| 04:57.18 | Paul_PL | hmm |
| 04:57.38 | Paul_PL | that could solve the problem with not sufficient place for all those info |
| 04:58.42 | Paul_PL | but what about those filters which don't correspond with info from the list? like maximum number of shots for example, even though I'm not sure if that one would be even included |
| 04:59.16 | pacman87 | you can't filter it if it's not an available variable |
| 04:59.39 | pacman87 | wait, back up a few lines |
| 04:59.49 | pacman87 | i just got what you were saying |
| 05:00.10 | pacman87 | leave the server list how you had it, with column headings |
| 05:00.13 | Lukstr | ello |
| 05:00.28 | pacman87 | i'm talking about the detailed server info panel (top left) |
| 05:00.31 | jude- | hey Lukstr |
| 05:00.32 | Paul_PL | :) |
| 05:00.48 | Lukstr | how goes it? |
| 05:01.04 | jude- | read your proposal on the wiki :) |
| 05:01.11 | jude- | (at least the parts you published) |
| 05:01.31 | Paul_PL | whose? |
| 05:01.36 | jude- | Lukstr's |
| 05:01.55 | jude- | (and yours, for that matter) |
| 05:02.12 | jude- | (you can see mine if you want--http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Jude- |
| 05:02.46 | Lukstr | jude-: ehe, there's way morei n the proposal |
| 05:02.53 | Lukstr | that I submitted through the webapp |
| 05:02.59 | jude- | Lukstr: I figured :) |
| 05:03.00 | Lukstr | I guess it doesn't hurt to update the wiki |
| 05:03.04 | Constitution | gah |
| 05:03.08 | Lukstr | We'll see tomorrow maybe |
| 05:03.09 | Constitution | that IS long :) |
| 05:03.23 | jude- | lol |
| 05:03.35 | Constitution | how are ya, jude-? :) |
| 05:03.45 | jude- | bogged down in algorithm analysis homework |
| 05:03.49 | jude- | but otherwise fine :) |
| 05:03.50 | Constitution | ah |
| 05:03.51 | jude- | you? |
| 05:04.05 | Constitution | pretty good... but busy as always :) |
| 05:04.21 | jude- | should remember not to take more than 3 400-level computer science courses in the future |
| 05:05.02 | Lukstr | jude-: all the CS kids say algo's the worst, that's why I'm not in CS :P |
| 05:05.35 | jude- | algorithm analysis is definitely the hardest class I've ever taken, but it's totally worth it :) |
| 05:05.55 | Constitution | you gonna crack md5? ;) |
| 05:06.00 | pacman87 | Paul_PL: does what i said make more sense when you apply it to the right section? |
| 05:06.10 | jude- | Constitution: already feasible with PS3 supercomputers |
| 05:06.32 | jude- | which can be built cheaply |
| 05:06.36 | jude- | (relatively speaking) |
| 05:06.39 | Paul_PL | I have to read it again first :) |
| 05:06.45 | Lukstr | Constitution: md5's old news. rot26 is the future |
| 05:06.50 | jude- | lol |
| 05:07.09 | pacman87 | uses double rot-13 instead |
| 05:07.21 | Constitution | hmm, guess I need to get with it |
| 05:07.25 | Lukstr | double rot-26 > your double rot-13 |
| 05:07.26 | Lukstr | :) |
| 05:07.31 | jude- | Julius Caesar actually used rot3 to "encrypt" his messages to his generals |
| 05:07.59 | Lukstr | that's where it gets its name, durr |
| 05:07.59 | pacman87 | i recently implemented a simple substitution cypher for a CS lab |
| 05:07.59 | jude- | it actually worked |
| 05:08.01 | Lukstr | :P |
| 05:08.07 | Lukstr | jude-: "Caeser Cipher" |
| 05:08.25 | jude- | indeed |
| 05:08.50 | jude- | I wonder why his enemies didn't figure it out |
| 05:08.54 | pacman87 | they wanted me to time my encrypt/decrypt times, but it was faster than clock() could measure |
| 05:09.06 | jude- | nice! |
| 05:09.07 | pacman87 | jude-: how many messages were intercepted? |
| 05:09.16 | jude- | you only need one |
| 05:09.27 | jude- | to break the code |
| 05:09.38 | Paul_PL | pacman87: yes it does pretty much, and if there is some nice way to put those not-in-table-info filters togehter with the others than it would be a good solution |
| 05:10.17 | jude- | prefers rot-13 on top of AES-256 :) |
| 05:10.54 | pacman87 | <param-name> <server-setting> <filter-setting> |
| 05:10.59 | Lukstr | pacman87: You weren't using time to measure? |
| 05:11.05 | pacman87 | line it up nice, verticaly |
| 05:11.19 | pacman87 | what's the resolution of time? |
| 05:11.28 | Lukstr | 100ths of seconds I believe |
| 05:11.33 | Lukstr | sorry |
| 05:11.34 | Lukstr | 1000th |
| 05:11.40 | pacman87 | yeah, that's the same as clock() |
| 05:11.42 | pacman87 | 1 ms |
| 05:11.44 | jude- | not nearly granular enough |
| 05:11.50 | Lukstr | pacman87: regardless, you can use microseconds |
| 05:11.52 | pacman87 | mine was about .1ms |
| 05:11.52 | jude- | use nanoseconds :) |
| 05:12.00 | Lukstr | or nanoseconds |
| 05:12.13 | jude- | even Java has that functionality |
| 05:12.23 | pacman87 | this is in C |
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| 05:12.47 | jude- | point is, there's probably a syscall you can make somewhere to get the nanoseconds elapsed |
| 05:12.48 | blast007 | run the same thing 1000 times, then divide the time by 1000 :P |
| 05:12.56 | jude- | amortized analysis ftw :) |
| 05:13.18 | pacman87 | blast007: that wasn't in the requirements |
| 05:13.55 | pacman87 | and the biggest part is file IO |
| 05:14.20 | jude- | what do you mean by "biggest"? |
| 05:14.29 | pacman87 | the encrypt/decrypt is just array lookups, add/subtract, and assignment |
| 05:14.34 | jude- | code? time? man-hours? |
| 05:14.35 | pacman87 | jude-: time |
| 05:14.40 | jude- | ah |
| 05:14.59 | jude- | makes sense--file I/O is at least an order of magnitude slower than RAM read/write |
| 05:15.30 | Lukstr | file I/O is the bottleneck |
| 05:15.32 | jude- | (which, in turn, is an order of magnitude slower than cache read/write, which is in turn an order of magnitude slower than register operations) |
| 05:15.35 | pacman87 | right, which is why i read the input file as a binary into a char array all at once |
| 05:15.45 | jude- | good :) |
| 05:15.48 | pacman87 | instead of doing it char by char :) |
| 05:15.51 | Lukstr | heh |
| 05:15.53 | jude- | lol |
| 05:15.57 | Lukstr | anyways chaps, sleep time pour moi. |
| 05:16.05 | jude- | good night Lukstr |
| 05:16.21 | Lukstr | I'll be back tomorrow to write a smokin' hot patch :) |
| 05:17.07 | pacman87 | prefers his code chilled |
| 05:17.19 | pacman87 | hot code requires additional cooling |
| 05:17.49 | Lukstr | feh! |
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| 05:57.31 | brlcad | returns buzzed |
| 05:58.09 | *** join/#bzflag JBDRangersFan (n=c0844002@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:58.11 | pacman87 | i read that as 'buzzard', and was wondering who you borrowed one from... |
| 05:58.24 | brlcad | mm, thems good eatn |
| 05:58.54 | JBDRangersFan | my roomate was playin the game, and used a fake name that involved saying "i cheat" and now he made it so i cant go on and play the game...wat do i do to make it so im not blocked or kicked? |
| 05:59.28 | blast007 | JBDRangersFan: contact the one who banned you. |
| 05:59.31 | blast007 | on the forum. |
| 05:59.40 | pacman87 | JBDRangersFan: private message |
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| 06:00.31 | JBDRangersFan | and just say wat? wat i said to you guys? |
| 06:00.45 | blast007 | yeah |
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| 06:17.10 | Flash | Should I be bold in editing the wiki, or use the discussion page first ? |
| 06:17.45 | blast007 | edit away |
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| 06:18.00 | blast007 | I don't think most people read the discussion pages anyway ;) |
| 06:18.10 | blast007 | what area are you wanting to work on? |
| 06:21.17 | Flash | compiling notes |
| 06:21.25 | Flash | there's just a minor blurb for Windows |
| 06:21.38 | Flash | I've struggled enough through the Mac side, I thought I'd share |
| 06:25.11 | blast007 | k |
| 06:25.27 | blast007 | if there is useful stuff, it can also go into the README.* files |
| 06:28.40 | hobbsc | are any of the leagues still active? |
| 06:30.03 | blast007 | yes |
| 06:30.46 | hobbsc | been thinking about getting back into |
| 06:30.49 | hobbsc | into it* |
| 06:31.08 | hobbsc | played some bzflag at work the other day while waiting for a directory to replicate and forgot how fun it was |
| 06:31.19 | blast007 | hehe |
| 06:32.28 | hobbsc | is there a channel for the pillbox league? |
| 06:33.34 | KingofCamelot | Hey blast007, got a quick question for you, more out of curiousity than anything :) |
| 06:35.16 | KingofCamelot | I realized that I had some webspace along with my college e-mail account, so I figured I'd try putting up my own fake list server that way I wouldn't need to bug you again if I needed to tweak anything again |
| 06:35.44 | KingofCamelot | So I copied what you had up there, changed a little bit, then put it up on my space...except for the life of me I couldn't get it to work, heh |
| 06:36.04 | KingofCamelot | Even though the pages are pratically identical |
| 06:36.21 | KingofCamelot | Mine just returns an empty list to the server listing |
| 06:46.35 | Flash | I know it's late to find the right people, but have any of the devs build for MacOS 10.5? |
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| 09:18.25 | bz26 | says hi |
| 09:23.32 | pacman87 | bz26: hi |
| 09:24.37 | bz26 | hi |
| 09:24.51 | bz26 | hey pacman, wanna do a thought experiment for me? |
| 09:25.45 | pacman87 | only if i don't have to think too hard |
| 09:29.27 | bz26 | pacman read your channel |
| 09:30.19 | pacman87 | apparently pm's from unregistered users are blocked |
| 09:31.03 | bz26 | oh |
| 09:31.18 | bz26 | where do i download the full source code for bzflag which i can compile? |
| 09:31.29 | pacman87 | which version do you want? |
| 09:31.29 | bz26 | Once the libs are installed, go to the win32 subdirectory of the BZFlag source and go to either the MSVC7 or MSVC8 directories, depending on the version you are using. Click on the BZFlag solution, and build the projects by pressing F5. This may take some time. Once the projects have been built look under the top directory for your executable. |
| 09:31.32 | bz26 | says the wiki |
| 09:31.36 | bz26 | 2.0.10 |
| 09:31.57 | bz26 | would it be tar.bz2 or tar.gz or zip or something completely different? |
| 09:32.35 | pacman87 | http://downloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag-2.0.10.zip?download |
| 09:33.04 | bz26 | so zip is the one i want? |
| 09:34.23 | pacman87 | yes, they all have the same contents, but the zip format is easier to use in windows |
| 09:34.38 | bz26 | one more thing before the experiment |
| 09:34.48 | bz26 | who is "sleeping for3st" |
| 09:34.56 | bz26 | they r annoying and silly |
| 09:35.07 | bz26 | and seems to be first time i've seen them |
| 09:35.20 | pacman87 | i don't know, probably a new player |
| 09:35.32 | bz26 | thinktank says they're a poll abuser |
| 09:35.47 | bz26 | evidently they make up rubbish, and probably cheats using f5 |
| 09:36.08 | bz26 | we were on your server and... |
| 09:36.18 | bz26 | i was waiting for thinktank to play soccer |
| 09:36.40 | bz26 | and i made a joke: "Hurry up thinktank. How can it take so long to masterban forest? ;)" |
| 09:36.48 | bz26 | and they took it seriously, i think |
| 09:37.36 | bz26 | Alright: thought experiment |
| 09:37.43 | bz26 | Imagine a tank which can travel at 25m/s. The same tank can also turn at 45 degrees per second. |
| 09:37.50 | pacman87 | try pm again |
| 09:38.12 | bz26 | see if you can get "hi" |
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| 09:59.05 | bz26 | hi |
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| 10:01.45 | whodaman- | so...we never discovered the experiment! |
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| 15:22.28 | spldart | FYI :) - r16851 debug build in windows and linux = FTW |
| 15:45.46 | TD-Linux | spldart, I'll test too :) |
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| 15:53.37 | TD-Linux | WOW |
| 15:53.44 | TD-Linux | performance is A LOT better than 2.0 |
| 15:54.04 | TD-Linux | btw this is the first time I got head to compile without segfaulting :)_ |
| 15:54.11 | TD-Linux | fonts are very nice :D |
| 15:54.37 | TD-Linux | spldart, my first spawn on your server was sealed :/ |
| 15:57.06 | Winny | TD-Linux: trunk, not head ;) |
| 15:57.22 | blast007 | TD-Linux: the fonts are okay |
| 15:57.28 | blast007 | they suck at 640x480 |
| 15:57.55 | blast007 | and the sizes are always that good |
| 15:58.21 | TD-Linux | at 1680x1050 the fonts are much better though :) |
| 15:58.31 | TD-Linux | blast007, sounds like the fonts are missing hinting? |
| 15:58.52 | TD-Linux | goes back to see if they are hinted |
| 15:59.19 | TD-Linux | they don't look hinted, that's the problem |
| 16:11.59 | blast007 | hinting? |
| 16:12.49 | blast007 | nvm, wikipedia'd it ;) |
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| 16:30.22 | TD-Linux | should be a simple freetype option to enable |
| 16:31.48 | blast007 | yeah |
| 16:31.52 | blast007 | gonna search for it |
| 16:34.41 | JeffM | what are you trying to do? |
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| 16:35.29 | blast007 | hinting on the fonts |
| 16:35.36 | blast007 | cuz they look like total crap at low res |
| 16:36.00 | JeffM | that may be FTGL, cus I had it kick into bitmap at smaller sizes |
| 16:36.54 | blast007 | the bzflag client uses FTGL? |
| 16:37.11 | JeffM | yeah |
| 16:37.11 | blast007 | nvm, I was thinking of FLTK |
| 16:37.15 | JeffM | heh |
| 16:37.26 | blast007 | too many acronyms! *head explodes* |
| 16:37.31 | JeffM | FTGL uses FT to rasterise the fonts into textures, then FTGL draws them |
| 16:37.48 | JeffM | FTGL has like 6 difrent font classes that rasterise the font difrently |
| 16:37.59 | JeffM | the 2 big ones we use are the bitmap and texture one |
| 16:38.07 | JeffM | the texture one is smoother |
| 16:38.14 | JeffM | the bitmap one is crisper |
| 16:38.35 | JeffM | the texture one was smoothing to a blur at small sizes, so I had it use the bitmap one at small sises |
| 16:38.45 | JeffM | so you may want to look into that |
| 16:39.19 | JeffM | inside font manger is a place where we allocate the FTGL font classes, that has the switch for what class to create |
| 16:39.40 | blast007 | k |
| 16:39.56 | blast007 | JeffM: did you get any further with the QPC stuff? |
| 16:42.31 | blast007 | heh... crashes when I tried to change the resolution ;D |
| 16:44.29 | blast007 | ewww... FreeType uses 'goto' O.o |
| 16:46.02 | blast007 | The program '[6828] bzflag.exe: Native' has exited with code 3 (0x3). |
| 16:46.18 | blast007 | how would I track down where we exit with an error level of 3? |
| 16:46.34 | blast007 | I searched for instances of exit, but none that I saw returned a 3 |
| 16:48.14 | TD-Linux | FT takes an auto-hinting parameter I think, FTGL should be able to pass that on? |
| 16:48.18 | TD-Linux | hmm |
| 16:48.28 | TD-Linux | does FTGL re-Freetype-render each separate font size? |
| 16:48.33 | TD-Linux | or does it do one size and scale the texture |
| 16:51.15 | blast007 | it renders each size from what I can tell, on-demand |
| 16:51.35 | blast007 | because when you change the font size, it takes a second or two to re-render |
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| 17:04.34 | TD-Linux | blast007, okay, that's good, because if it scaled that would break hinting |
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| 17:05.06 | JeffM | blast007: no, I am at a loss on it. I don't realy know how it works |
| 17:07.06 | JeffM | I'm hoping DTR takes a pass thru it, cus he worked on it at one point |
| 17:09.27 | blast007 | meh... it there a way to make "Step Into" not step through all of the system includes and asm files.. takes forever to get through all of these string compares and allocators ;) |
| 17:10.08 | JeffM | set the breakpoint further in |
| 17:10.17 | JeffM | or just imediately SHIFT F11 to step out |
| 17:10.26 | JeffM | that will get you out of the lowest level thing |
| 17:10.28 | JeffM | then step in again |
| 17:10.37 | JeffM | that will step you into the next thing |
| 17:15.39 | blast007 | cool, I'm closer to where the crash occurs now |
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| 17:47.33 | spldart | TD-Linux:: That exact map in branch is perfectly fine... and it's only the transporter that heads up to the base tower... I've left it that way till I it get's figured out |
| 17:48.23 | spldart | Can I assume that one of the prerequisites is complete compatability with maps from 2.0 environment? |
| 17:48.43 | spldart | prerequisites of trunk and subsequently next release |
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| 17:49.18 | spldart | TD-Linux.. it was a windows client wasn't it? |
| 17:49.28 | spldart | My linux machine's client never has the transporter issue |
| 17:49.30 | TD-Linux | no linux |
| 17:49.33 | blast007 | spldart: what part is broken? |
| 17:49.34 | JeffM | spldart: yeah |
| 17:49.35 | TD-Linux | it's repeatable |
| 17:49.41 | TD-Linux | the first spawn always is sealed |
| 17:50.19 | spldart | woah.. My windows first spawn is sealed and my windows transport-to-base teleport doesn't work But my linux built trunk client does great |
| 17:50.23 | spldart | goes to check again |
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| 17:50.58 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16852 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC8/bzflag.vcproj: scoreboardrender.h ain't in includes |
| 17:51.12 | TD-Linux | joins spldart's server |
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| 17:57.35 | BulletCatcher | I was at bzflag3.norang.ca:5154 with a r16851 Linux client a few minutes ago. The server connection error showed up after 10 minutes. It is always preceeded by a lag warning that I suspect is spurious. |
| 17:59.53 | JeffM | blast007: do you have a simple map with just a test mesh so I can figure out the tang problem? |
| 18:01.32 | JeffM | guess I can just do a meshbox |
| 18:04.26 | spldart | the fps meter goes green below 50fps and white for >50? |
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| 18:08.19 | Think_Differentl | heh |
| 18:08.26 | Think_Differentl | configure runs a bit faster, or so it seems |
| 18:09.37 | spldart | Should I be submitting reports on the smaller bugs I'm noticing anywhere? |
| 18:10.27 | JeffM | SF or bugs list |
| 18:10.29 | spldart | TD-Linux? How new is your trunk checkout? |
| 18:10.32 | JeffM | or bugs file |
| 18:10.48 | spldart | Bugs file.. isn't that in the source? |
| 18:10.52 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:11.11 | spldart | So, what, submit a patch to update bugs file? |
| 18:11.41 | JeffM | what is your SF name? |
| 18:11.51 | spldart | bzspldart iirc |
| 18:12.57 | JeffM | don't break anything |
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| 18:13.24 | spldart | I don't understand |
| 18:13.35 | JeffM | commit the changes directly |
| 18:13.43 | JeffM | for the bugs list and the docs you've updated |
| 18:14.06 | spldart | Is there a wiki on doin commits.. I've never done so before. |
| 18:14.27 | JeffM | our wiki has info on what you setup to do commits |
| 18:14.38 | JeffM | stick to the docs and ancilary files for now and you'll be fine :) |
| 18:14.49 | spldart | Ok.. Thank you. I'll be very careful |
| 18:14.57 | JeffM | I'm sure you will :) |
| 18:15.21 | JeffM | you are a prety good tester so may as well just let you commit it directly |
| 18:16.06 | spldart | does happy dance and researches further on wiki's |
| 18:17.46 | JeffM | blast007: I think I found the problem with the mesh collsions |
| 18:18.12 | blast007 | k |
| 18:18.31 | TD-Linux | spldart, r16851 |
| 18:18.53 | spldart | Oh.. so your up to date |
| 18:19.17 | spldart | I wonder what the difference between your windoze tester, my windoze tester and my linux tester is |
| 18:19.26 | JeffM | some objects go thru the default obstacle contstructor |
| 18:19.29 | spldart | You said you were nvidia right? |
| 18:19.33 | JeffM | and that sets the internal type variable to -1 |
| 18:19.33 | TD-Linux | yeah |
| 18:19.43 | spldart | So all are nvidia |
| 18:19.52 | JeffM | so I'm just going to make it be pure virtual |
| 18:19.54 | spldart | senses meshe's might be fixed soon ;-D |
| 18:20.19 | spldart | I'm curious to see if mesh fix has an effect on my sky teleporter which is right above a mesh |
| 18:20.28 | spldart | sky tele bug |
| 18:20.29 | spldart | anywho |
| 18:22.25 | JeffM | spldart: you also have tech access to the bugs and patch trackers |
| 18:23.15 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16853 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC8/obstacle.vcproj: bzstrings.. dead... and good riddance |
| 18:23.19 | spldart | K... I'm getting rid of my tinkered on checkout right now and getting an absolutely fresh one so that there can be no chance of hosing things |
| 18:24.15 | JeffM | just make sure your URL uses https |
| 18:24.18 | JeffM | then it'll ask for auth |
| 18:24.34 | JeffM | also make sure you have your config set correctly for the various svn attributes |
| 18:24.40 | JeffM | tho that only affects new files |
| 18:25.40 | spldart | Will details of your caveats be on the aforementioned wiki? |
| 18:25.47 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:25.53 | JeffM | there is a section on commiting |
| 18:26.02 | spldart | good.. I'll be doin any commits from the windows machine probably |
| 18:26.03 | JeffM | has the list of what to add to your svn config and everything |
| 18:26.22 | spldart | I know that probably doesn't make a diff but just fyi |
| 18:26.43 | spldart | puts his serious face on :) |
| 18:27.08 | *** part/#bzflag compbrain (i=wan@pdpc/supporter/student/CompBrain) |
| 18:32.57 | L4m3r | speaking of mesh collision issues, afaik mesh collisions have never worked properly for turning tanks. should this be fixed for 3.0? |
| 18:33.11 | L4m3r | s/properly/at all/ |
| 18:33.24 | L4m3r | (or was there a technical reason for this?) |
| 18:33.57 | JeffM | it's probalby related to the same thing that breaks the box-> mesh transition |
| 18:34.08 | L4m3r | I don't think so |
| 18:34.16 | L4m3r | my guess is that it's just not implemented |
| 18:34.17 | JeffM | then I dunno |
| 18:34.24 | JeffM | would not suprise me |
| 18:34.40 | L4m3r | you drive up next to a mesh wall and turn, and it won't stop you |
| 18:34.41 | spldart | Hrm |
| 18:35.17 | L4m3r | this actually allows you to pull yourself through thin walls :P |
| 18:36.17 | spldart | the wiki Auto-props doesn't contain the correct path for WinXP as well which is C:\Documents and Settings\James\Application Data\Subversion\config Might wanna update that |
| 18:36.37 | spldart | hehe... duh my name is James |
| 18:36.39 | spldart | duh |
| 18:36.53 | *** join/#bzflag JeffMMain (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-218-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
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| 18:37.05 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-163-117.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 18:37.10 | attila589 | hi! |
| 18:37.18 | Lukstr | hello |
| 18:37.39 | attila589 | i'd like to submit a proposal about game logic decomposition |
| 18:37.49 | Lukstr | spldart: it's wiki, you could edit it :) |
| 18:38.11 | *** join/#bzflag BAPTIST (n=47360b92@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:38.23 | BAPTIST | hello?... |
| 18:38.31 | Lukstr | hi |
| 18:38.33 | spldart | Hrm.. never messed with wiki either.. Guess I'll give that a try while I'm thinking of it |
| 18:38.35 | BAPTIST | oh sup |
| 18:38.57 | BAPTIST | wheres Winny? |
| 18:39.01 | *** join/#bzflag AHA_ (n=aha@unaffiliated/aha) |
| 18:39.04 | BAPTIST | i look up to him |
| 18:39.11 | *** join/#bzflag Kibiz0r_ (n=Kibiz0r@c-71-205-121-146.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 18:39.14 | Lukstr | you could ping him |
| 18:39.21 | BAPTIST | k |
| 18:39.26 | Winny | what |
| 18:39.41 | Winny | And why do you look up to me, bad idea. |
| 18:39.47 | BAPTIST | but hes a little to cool to just come out of nowher and say hi to |
| 18:40.05 | BAPTIST | oh hey winny |
| 18:40.35 | BAPTIST | why?uhh your intelligiance and maturity and how you act around others |
| 18:41.04 | *** join/#bzflag Noodlema1 (n=tuckerm@64.207.229.213) |
| 18:41.10 | spldart | Pogo was just musing... I'm halfway between a lackee tester and a dev... but with commit access and mentor status I'm now most aptly described as BZFlag Dev familiar 8~D |
| 18:41.30 | BAPTIST | nice |
| 18:41.37 | BAPTIST | i think |
| 18:41.39 | BAPTIST | ... |
| 18:41.54 | spldart | twas a jest... Jocularity |
| 18:42.04 | BAPTIST | heh |
| 18:42.15 | Lukstr | hah, familiar |
| 18:42.23 | BAPTIST | new word or already a word? |
| 18:42.30 | spldart | Space time continuam thing.. yah had to be there BAP... |
| 18:42.39 | BAPTIST | jocularity i like it.... |
| 18:42.49 | JeffMMain | hugs CIA-16 |
| 18:42.52 | JeffMMain | :( |
| 18:42.56 | BAPTIST | lol |
| 18:42.58 | JeffMMain | blast007: it be fixed |
| 18:43.06 | Think_Differentl | I'm sure CIA-16 would hug you back, if it had arms. |
| 18:43.07 | blast007 | that whole space time thing is soooo 2150! |
| 18:43.08 | BAPTIST | XOXO |
| 18:43.08 | JeffMMain | the right way even |
| 18:43.14 | blast007 | JeffMMain: sweeeeet |
| 18:43.38 | L4m3r | boom |
| 18:43.38 | Lukstr | oh noess |
| 18:43.38 | BAPTIST | woa.... |
| 18:43.38 | Think_Differentl | kerboom |
| 18:43.38 | Lukstr | what can brown do for you? |
| 18:44.01 | blast007 | that's probably why it didn't report that one ;D |
| 18:44.01 | Lukstr | apparently netsplit :P |
| 18:44.02 | JeffMMain | so that means API defined drive thru changes in realtime ;) |
| 18:44.02 | JeffMMain | doors anyone? |
| 18:44.36 | BAPTIST | (sigh)we almost have the whole gang together |
| 18:44.40 | brlcad | spldart: congratulations :) |
| 18:45.17 | BAPTIST | alright bye guys ill b in game and be talking here |
| 18:45.22 | blast007 | cya |
| 18:45.29 | BAPTIST | wait why am i saying bye then?.... |
| 18:45.35 | blast007 | I have no idea. |
| 18:45.50 | spldart | OMG.. I need to catch up on my gmail bzflag related stuff.. sorry |
| 18:45.54 | JeffM | that fix will need a server and client update |
| 18:46.03 | blast007 | JeffM: k |
| 18:46.07 | spldart | Did you want a quick test? |
| 18:46.15 | JeffM | I did a test here |
| 18:46.19 | spldart | okies |
| 18:46.24 | JeffM | meshbox FTW |
| 18:46.27 | spldart | then I'll update just to update |
| 18:46.37 | JeffM | I gotta update mirkwood too |
| 18:46.51 | blast007 | I'm rebuilding mine |
| 18:47.05 | Winny | JeffM, my mom is going insane that your a scam artist and Ill never get my shirts :p |
| 18:47.05 | JeffM | probably should have bumpedproto |
| 18:47.13 | spldart | ummm... |
| 18:47.22 | blast007 | Winny: heh.. |
| 18:47.22 | JeffM | Winny: heh. I assure you they are ordered |
| 18:47.34 | JeffM | Winny: you saw the proof PDF I got from them right? |
| 18:47.38 | spldart | mom's often worry to much |
| 18:47.38 | blast007 | JeffM: that's just what a scam artist would say! |
| 18:47.40 | Winny | indeed |
| 18:47.50 | JBdiGriz | Winny: Tell your Mom not to worry. He has to pass by me before he can reach the border. |
| 18:47.51 | JeffM | if you don't have it by the second week in april, I'll refund your money. how's that? |
| 18:48.08 | JeffM | JBdiGriz: I do? |
| 18:48.11 | Winny | JeffM: Ill just show her the PDF proof ;) |
| 18:48.23 | JBdiGriz | Unless you're heading north. |
| 18:48.27 | JeffM | they told me that they would ship on thrusday |
| 18:48.36 | JeffM | that means I may get them as early as tomorow |
| 18:48.41 | JeffM | as late as wednesday |
| 18:48.56 | spldart | Poop. My tax return has an updated eta of 4/17.. so that's about when I'll be ordering from bzflag store |
| 18:49.34 | Lukstr | Mentors: How's the app size lookin' ? |
| 18:49.41 | JeffM | it got bigger |
| 18:49.44 | JeffM | slightly |
| 18:49.47 | *** join/#bzflag zee923 (n=563d7168@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-c4fb87ac4ce05771) |
| 18:49.49 | Lukstr | hah, not 50 times? |
| 18:49.54 | JeffM | no |
| 18:50.19 | JeffM | there is enough to work with |
| 18:50.27 | Lukstr | cool |
| 18:50.41 | JeffM | except the one that just came in |
| 18:50.47 | JeffM | yeah that's special |
| 18:50.58 | Lukstr | another bizarre one? |
| 18:51.30 | JeffM | spam I think |
| 18:53.43 | JeffM | Manu is far to nice in his replies :) |
| 18:54.43 | JeffM | Winny: just think if I had gone with the other printer, we'd still have to wait another week for production :) |
| 18:54.53 | Winny | :) |
| 18:56.06 | JeffM | 5 days for production was the fastest I'd seen |
| 18:56.16 | JeffM | the other guy wanted 2 weeks |
| 18:56.20 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-151-201-222-13.pitt.east.verizon.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 18:57.14 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (i=QB@cpe-72-190-35-69.tx.res.rr.com) |
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| 18:59.24 | *** join/#bzflag DexM (n=DexM@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 19:00.11 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-253-016.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:01.20 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT (i=etangent@inge069019.halls.colostate.edu) |
| 19:02.40 | JeffM | Winny: tell you what I'll send you a picture of your hoodie when it gets here |
| 19:02.57 | JeffM | it'll have a girl in it |
| 19:03.09 | Winny | JeffM, don't worry about it.. showing her the PDF seemed to calm the nerves |
| 19:03.20 | JeffM | yeah we realy did order them :) |
| 19:03.26 | Winny | :D |
| 19:03.28 | JeffM | if we didn't I'm out a lot more money the YOU are |
| 19:03.37 | JeffM | personaly I'd be out over 100$ |
| 19:03.41 | Winny | ouch |
| 19:03.55 | JeffM | and the project 500$ |
| 19:04.36 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 19:05.04 | JeffM | ahh no, yours dosn't get a girl in it, sorry |
| 19:05.10 | JeffM | DTR's does |
| 19:05.43 | JeffM | Winny: you still gonna buy the military green shirt? |
| 19:05.48 | Winny | yeah |
| 19:05.50 | JeffM | k |
| 19:06.15 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=Ride-@24-197-250-9.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) |
| 19:06.16 | JeffM | I have names by all the custom ones so I know where they go |
| 19:07.06 | eTangenT | wtf |
| 19:07.11 | eTangenT | bzflag apparel now? |
| 19:07.14 | eTangenT | awesome! |
| 19:07.20 | JeffM | umm yeah |
| 19:07.26 | JeffM | been on the boards for weeks |
| 19:07.32 | JeffM | they were made last week |
| 19:07.37 | Winny | eTangenT recently came back to life |
| 19:07.45 | JeffM | and should be in FedEX's hands as we type |
| 19:08.04 | JeffM | eTangenT: http://store.bzflag.org |
| 19:08.35 | JeffM | so who wants to place bets on how long it will take to sell 44 shirts? |
| 19:08.52 | Winny | I'll say 2-3 months |
| 19:08.54 | JeffM | that's not counting anyone who hasn't said they wanted to get a non gray one. |
| 19:09.06 | JeffM | you think that long? |
| 19:09.11 | JeffM | dtr said a week |
| 19:09.25 | eTangenT | I'll buy one when I have money. |
| 19:09.31 | eTangenT | Who wants to give me money? |
| 19:09.31 | Winny | I imagine you'll sell about 30 in the first 2-3 weeks, and then maybe 2-3ish every week after that |
| 19:09.49 | JeffM | maybe |
| 19:09.58 | JeffM | if I sell 30 I can do a reprint :) |
| 19:10.08 | JeffM | heck if I sell 4 I can do a reprint |
| 19:10.17 | Lukstr | haha |
| 19:11.07 | JeffM | the hoodie sales have goten me most of what I'll need for a reprint |
| 19:11.07 | spldart | Second paragraph, included win xp path mention http://my.bzflag.org/w/Auto-props |
| 19:11.40 | JeffM | I think for a reprint, I'll do pre-orders for shits in the various colors as well |
| 19:11.55 | eTangenT | omg, Const never even worked on my Cap Point plugin idea. |
| 19:11.57 | eTangenT | that poopstick. |
| 19:12.03 | eTangenT | then again, I never worked on it, either. |
| 19:12.19 | Winny | heh |
| 19:12.55 | catay | JeffM: a question, how can i do reliable a countdown from within a plugin ? |
| 19:13.09 | catay | i am trying this now from within the tick event |
| 19:13.31 | catay | checking if a second as passed, but when no players are on the field , it doesn't trigger that event every second |
| 19:14.37 | JeffM | catay: did you set the minimum wait time? |
| 19:14.44 | JeffM | max wait time I mean |
| 19:14.53 | catay | ah no |
| 19:15.14 | catay | what will that do ? |
| 19:15.23 | JeffM | yeah we go into deep idle when no players on the the field |
| 19:15.48 | catay | ok, thanks |
| 19:16.05 | spldart | Yeay! I can drive on my mesh arcs |
| 19:16.20 | JeffM | yah for proper C++ |
| 19:17.17 | spldart | alot faster to build @ home and scp up to the server ;~) |
| 19:17.52 | spldart | I really thought the kernel version being so diff would nix that |
| 19:18.13 | spldart | Thanks.. Was it manu who answered that yesterday? |
| 19:19.36 | spldart | looks like svn for windows just needs the one thing uncommented.. and I can just cut and paste all the config in the wiki right in there? |
| 19:24.41 | spldart | So I want to add "enable-auto-props = yes" to my config? |
| 19:24.49 | spldart | along with the rest of the sample config file? |
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| 19:27.20 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 19:29.41 | Manu | spldart: ?? |
| 19:30.33 | L4m3r | eTangenT: if "Cap Point" means what I think it means, it's been done and beaten to death |
| 19:30.50 | L4m3r | the API can't set player scores properly in 2.0 |
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| 19:34.02 | spldart | Sry.. didn't mean to ping yah.. I couldn't remember if it was meno or manu that told me it would be ok to build on one linux box and upload the bzfs to another linux box of same distro/version even if kernel was significantly different and have it work |
| 19:34.12 | spldart | sry if it wasn' yah and or if I disturbed yah |
| 19:34.52 | Manu | spldart: Ah, yes I said it :) |
| 19:35.49 | spldart | thanks again.. I'm keeping much more up to date on a regular basis now :) |
| 19:36.39 | spldart | takes a break before continuming to assure he's ready to commit succesfully |
| 19:38.38 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@207-177-229-17.dsl.redshift.com) |
| 19:43.45 | JeffM | so is there anything else big on the "unplayable" list? |
| 19:44.56 | Winny | limited to 30 radar ;) |
| 19:44.57 | Winny | runs |
| 19:45.31 | JeffM | yeah that is prety big |
| 19:45.39 | Lukstr | is going to take a look at this "client occasionally crashes on exit" dealie when he gets back from the mall |
| 19:45.40 | JeffM | I'll put it back down to 11 |
| 19:46.12 | Winny | :( |
| 19:46.14 | catay | I noticed an issue with the current /countdown /endgame stuff in trunk |
| 19:46.30 | catay | if you start /countdown , play a bit , do /endgame |
| 19:46.36 | catay | and rejoin again, you are a rabbit :) |
| 19:46.40 | JeffM | the goal is to replace that so that's no biggie |
| 19:47.14 | Lukstr | JeffM: Know if the client crashing is trivial or inverse-trivial? |
| 19:47.37 | JeffM | depends on why |
| 19:47.44 | JeffM | debuger should be able to show you realy quick |
| 19:47.51 | Lukstr | alright |
| 19:48.01 | Lukstr | I guess I have to make it crash then :P |
| 19:48.22 | JeffM | yep |
| 19:48.35 | Lukstr | should it be in the tracker? |
| 19:49.08 | JeffM | you mean is it? or should you report it first? |
| 19:49.25 | Lukstr | if it already is |
| 19:49.32 | JeffM | I highly doubt it |
| 19:49.35 | Lukstr | hm ok |
| 19:49.38 | Lukstr | leaves for now |
| 19:49.43 | eTangenT | L4m3r: Cap point does not mean what you think it means, then. |
| 19:49.56 | JeffM | eTangenT: does it adjust player scores? |
| 19:50.02 | eTangenT | No it doesn't, Jeff. |
| 19:50.08 | JeffM | what does it do? |
| 19:50.28 | eTangenT | A new style of game play. You have various zones called "capture points" |
| 19:50.39 | JeffM | oh |
| 19:50.42 | eTangenT | if your team owns it, you keep the enemy off of it, while trying to take over the enemy zones as well |
| 19:50.44 | Wyk3d | JeffM: do you think it would be a good idea to reuse NetHandler for the auth daemon aswell ? |
| 19:50.44 | JeffM | domiination |
| 19:50.48 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 19:50.52 | JeffM | domination |
| 19:51.03 | JeffM | that's what the rest of the world calls it |
| 19:51.10 | eTangenT | I was unaware of this. |
| 19:51.13 | eTangenT | Thank you for clearing it up. |
| 19:51.21 | eTangenT | Yell at Const about it, he said he'd take over the project. |
| 19:51.31 | JeffM | Wyk3d: you mean for it's node intertalk? |
| 19:52.03 | Wyk3d | yes for the server-daemon , client-daemon chatter |
| 19:52.14 | JeffM | oh |
| 19:52.20 | JeffM | that's not node intertalk |
| 19:52.35 | JeffM | I'm not convinced that sould be converted from HTTP |
| 19:52.49 | JeffM | but I don't see any rason to use netHandler |
| 19:52.55 | JeffM | when all you need is basic TCP |
| 19:53.08 | JeffM | the daemon can use sdlnet for all it cares |
| 19:53.10 | JeffM | it's simple |
| 19:53.13 | Wyk3d | nethandler supports TCP and UDP too afaik |
| 19:53.15 | Epyon | JeffM, deadline for apps is 2h from now, right? |
| 19:53.21 | Epyon | 24h* |
| 19:53.40 | JeffM | yes but nethandler also does a lot of game speciicif stuff, like the message pack and unpack |
| 19:53.53 | JeffM | Epyon: something like that, if they don't extend it |
| 19:54.12 | Epyon | kk, so I better get some sleep, and finish the apps :/ |
| 19:54.18 | JeffM | Wyk3d: what advantage doe sgoing to TCP get you over HTTP? |
| 19:55.02 | Wyk3d | the main advantage is that there's no point in implementing a web server if the whole reason for doing this project is to dump apache |
| 19:55.18 | JeffM | Wyk3d: I would not say that is the point of the project |
| 19:55.19 | Wyk3d | *or well that's not an advantage, but rather a reason to do so |
| 19:55.29 | Wyk3d | not the whole, yes but part of it |
| 19:55.41 | JeffM | no mater what we have to have an HTTP interface for the old clients and servers |
| 19:55.52 | JeffM | and there are simple HTTP libs you can use |
| 19:56.02 | JeffM | and still ditch apache |
| 19:56.11 | JeffM | our net code is very much tied to our protcoll |
| 19:56.16 | JeffM | so there would be no avantage to using it |
| 19:56.23 | JeffM | in fact it would probably make our code more messy |
| 19:56.58 | JeffM | if you have compelling reasons ( not just a desire go get away from apache ) to go to a custom protocoll, then I would rather just use an existing TCP wraper |
| 19:57.08 | JeffM | there is no need for the damon to use UDP |
| 19:57.37 | JeffM | but you must remember, we have to support old clients with whatever auth system we have, since we only want to have one database |
| 19:57.51 | JeffM | also the more custom code we have, the more stuff we have to maintain |
| 19:57.59 | JeffM | so using existing libs and protoclls is a good thing |
| 19:58.03 | Wyk3d | the existing list server can still support its functions, so the old clients can continue to use them |
| 19:58.14 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 19:58.20 | JeffM | so you want to maintain 2 list servers |
| 19:58.21 | Wyk3d | the new clients would not need to connect to the list server for authentication |
| 19:58.29 | Wyk3d | yes, for backward compatibility |
| 19:58.36 | Wyk3d | actually not 2 list servers |
| 19:58.40 | JeffM | then how will you handle the advertise function? |
| 19:58.42 | Wyk3d | but a list server and an auth daemon |
| 19:59.01 | Wyk3d | the list server will remain, and the authentication part of it moved to authd |
| 19:59.12 | JeffM | the list server needs auth info for advertise to work |
| 19:59.30 | JeffM | and what is the advantage in spliting them? |
| 19:59.40 | JeffM | if everyone needs to talk to both of them anyway |
| 19:59.59 | Wyk3d | the end goal is to have only one daemon for both the list server and auth and everything |
| 20:00.20 | Wyk3d | but that cannot be done all at once |
| 20:00.26 | JeffM | I'm confused, you just said you wanted to split them |
| 20:00.38 | Wyk3d | i do, temporarily |
| 20:00.43 | JeffM | if you move auth out of our list server, you break old clients |
| 20:00.48 | JeffM | since they auth via the list server |
| 20:00.53 | Wyk3d | no, the list server remains unchanged |
| 20:01.09 | Wyk3d | just that the new clients would not send the passwords to the list server |
| 20:01.11 | Wyk3d | just the callsin |
| 20:01.16 | Wyk3d | callsign |
| 20:01.23 | JeffM | and how does the list server know that is the real person? |
| 20:01.29 | JeffM | for advertise to work? |
| 20:03.49 | Wyk3d | hmm i'm not sure what you are referring to by advertise |
| 20:04.01 | JeffM | advertise is a function of the list server |
| 20:04.13 | JeffM | where we only list servers to people who are in specific global groups |
| 20:04.21 | JeffM | since the list does auth, that makes this possbile |
| 20:04.33 | DTRemenak | chuckles a bit |
| 20:04.37 | JeffM | so the list of servers we send to a client is dependent on there auth system |
| 20:04.43 | JeffM | well the auth results |
| 20:04.48 | DTRemenak | Wyk3d: welcome to open source, where asking two people for opinions nets you four answers :) |
| 20:04.55 | JeffM | ;) |
| 20:05.10 | JeffM | I'm just trying to understand the basis for your first question |
| 20:05.26 | JeffM | I'm not convinced going with a custom protocoll buys us much |
| 20:05.41 | DTRemenak | <brlcad> i don't really care if it's http or not frankly, so long as it's not through apache -- and if it's not through apache then how is the daemon talking http correctly, and do we really want to get into the business of writing a web server if http were chosen (no matter how easy that is to get started) |
| 20:06.13 | Wyk3d | yup .. that's what i was referring to :) |
| 20:06.25 | JeffM | well no mater what we have to support the old HTTP system |
| 20:06.43 | JeffM | there are other web systems besides apache |
| 20:07.01 | JeffM | but I'd like to know the advantages and disadvangates of each system |
| 20:07.12 | JeffM | I didn't say I was against it, just that I am not convinced yet |
| 20:07.21 | JeffM | but no mater what, using netHandler is a bad idea |
| 20:07.31 | JeffM | there are many better network abstraction libs |
| 20:07.33 | DTRemenak | yup, I just wanted to make sure you knew he wasn't just pulling stuff out of his ass :) |
| 20:07.34 | JeffM | sdlnet |
| 20:07.40 | JeffM | oh I knew he wasn |
| 20:07.42 | JeffM | 't |
| 20:08.06 | JeffM | I just want to see if he's done the thinking or if he's just repeating the party line ;) |
| 20:08.15 | Wyk3d | ok, I figured since that's what you use it might be considered a good abstraction class |
| 20:08.31 | DTRemenak | heh, no, we use a lot of things that are less than ideal :) |
| 20:08.47 | JeffM | Wyk3d: it's not generic enoguh |
| 20:09.00 | JeffM | and it would be "messy" |
| 20:09.01 | Wyk3d | ok, point taken, i'll take a look a sdlnet |
| 20:09.08 | JeffM | sdlnet is cake simple |
| 20:09.16 | JeffM | you can even use the stuff from libIRC |
| 20:09.23 | JeffM | it's a derivation of SDL net |
| 20:09.28 | JeffM | broken into 4 files |
| 20:09.30 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=Ride-@24-197-250-9.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) |
| 20:09.32 | JeffM | with no dependencies |
| 20:09.35 | JeffM | makes it easy to use |
| 20:10.02 | JeffM | now will this deamon be multinoded? |
| 20:10.09 | JeffM | or just one process on one machine still? |
| 20:10.11 | brlcad | catches up with the chatter |
| 20:10.36 | Wyk3d | well there might be enough to do enough without multinode support |
| 20:10.39 | JeffM | brlcad: just me trying to get students to explain stuff ;) |
| 20:10.42 | Wyk3d | if by that you mean replication |
| 20:10.52 | brlcad | disagree that nethandler is really anything more than just a tcp wrapper |
| 20:11.00 | brlcad | even pack/unpack is just basic serialization |
| 20:11.10 | JeffM | brlcad: it does the code/len stuff in there |
| 20:11.16 | Ride- | does anyone know what the map setting for map is when running blast's tester |
| 20:11.22 | JeffM | as well as checking message type to do TCPvs UDP |
| 20:11.33 | JeffM | thats what I was refering too |
| 20:11.36 | Ride- | because i get the error: map not specified |
| 20:11.38 | JeffM | it also dosn't have a listener |
| 20:11.41 | JeffM | it's just a sender |
| 20:11.48 | brlcad | yeah, but it does it just by packing values into a buffer .. it's not like it's tied to the values themselves |
| 20:12.11 | Flash | thinks this discussion would benefit from a list of requirements |
| 20:12.11 | JeffM | brlcad: many of the mehtods read the values to read in the message lenght |
| 20:12.24 | JeffM | for sending and receiving |
| 20:12.31 | brlcad | sure, but that's just basic deserialization |
| 20:12.36 | brlcad | their use of the buffer |
| 20:12.49 | brlcad | i'm not saying use it or not, but it's really nothing more than a generic sender |
| 20:12.53 | JeffM | I'm just saying I don't think it would work as is, it woudl need modes |
| 20:12.56 | JeffM | mods |
| 20:13.04 | JeffM | and I fear that would make it dirty |
| 20:13.09 | JeffM | that's just my opinion ;) |
| 20:13.18 | JeffM | the developer should look at it and decide |
| 20:13.18 | brlcad | i think it would probably help clean it up :) |
| 20:13.24 | JeffM | maybe |
| 20:13.25 | JeffM | maybe not |
| 20:13.47 | JeffM | it'll need a bit of work |
| 20:13.50 | JeffM | more then I think you expect |
| 20:14.03 | JeffM | specialy to get the server to do an outbound connection |
| 20:14.09 | Ride- | JeffM: pm please |
| 20:14.14 | JeffM | I was trying to do it for plugins but that got messsy fast |
| 20:14.17 | JeffM | Ride-: chill |
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| 20:15.55 | JeffM | I'm just woried that we keep saying "no http" but then we still have to have an HTTP Interface no mater what |
| 20:16.02 | brlcad | serverlink is the other side of the connection, if you don't use that then sure there are a lot of issues |
| 20:16.49 | brlcad | an http interface for whom? the client certainly doesn't have to |
| 20:16.52 | JeffM | tho I guess if we had both it'd be a good test to compare the two systems :) |
| 20:16.56 | JeffM | brlcad: 2.0.x |
| 20:17.01 | Wyk3d | so back to that advertise issue |
| 20:17.09 | JeffM | 2.0.x still needs to get the auth info from wherever we move it |
| 20:17.12 | brlcad | didn't see this auth system used for 2.0 at all |
| 20:17.22 | JeffM | brlcad: so you want to dupe account info? |
| 20:17.30 | brlcad | accounts would be imported |
| 20:17.41 | JeffM | but then would the old accounts be deleted? |
| 20:17.47 | brlcad | a matter of data migration |
| 20:18.03 | JeffM | brlcad: so the old list would have to be made to access the new account management system then. |
| 20:18.06 | brlcad | no, but they'd probably stay read-only when it goes on-line |
| 20:18.29 | JeffM | does not like that idea |
| 20:18.29 | jorgenpt | Dang. |
| 20:18.39 | JeffM | Wyk3d: basicly it is a server option |
| 20:18.39 | jorgenpt | I didn't get to send any gsoc apps. |
| 20:18.44 | jorgenpt | Tomorrow is the deadline, right? |
| 20:18.51 | brlcad | jorgenpt: yes |
| 20:18.57 | jorgenpt | When tomorrow? |
| 20:19.03 | JeffM | where you can say "only show this server to people in this group" it is commonly used to make servers only show for registered users. |
| 20:19.10 | Wyk3d | i understand what it is that and that does complicate things a lot, mainly because i wanted to keep the server list code intact |
| 20:19.25 | jorgenpt | I guess "all of tomorrow" |
| 20:19.36 | JeffM | Wyk3d: that's why I question the advantage in spliting them :) |
| 20:19.40 | JeffM | there are cases where they need to talk |
| 20:19.49 | JeffM | and everyone is contacting the list anyway |
| 20:19.58 | JeffM | so why not just piggyback |
| 20:20.08 | Wyk3d | would it be easy to get the list server to talk to the auth daemon ? |
| 20:20.08 | JeffM | instead of opening another connection |
| 20:20.28 | Wyk3d | as a temporary solution, until someone adds the listing functionality to the daemon aswell |
| 20:20.30 | JeffM | Wyk3d: I don't know. not knowing how your propsed systems works. |
| 20:20.54 | JeffM | it may be easy, it may be hard |
| 20:21.01 | Wyk3d | well what it would have to do is |
| 20:21.03 | JeffM | thats part of what you have to think about |
| 20:21.06 | brlcad | you could make the auth daemon coordinate getting data from the old list server in the meantime, then both new and old would coexist |
| 20:21.15 | brlcad | you'd still want to migrate data at some point |
| 20:21.23 | Wyk3d | the client sends the callsign and a hashed password to the list server |
| 20:21.29 | brlcad | which we have to do anyways to go ldap |
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| 20:21.58 | Wyk3d | the list server contact the auth daemon and and asks if the auth is OK .. then sends back the list with the groups taken into consideration |
| 20:22.06 | brlcad | so either you're adding support to the new to talk to the old listserver or adding support to the old list server to talk to the new data store |
| 20:22.10 | JeffM | brlcad: yes I totaly agree that we have to migrate data, but I think it should be possible to hook the old list server into using the data in the new backend. then noone is screwed |
| 20:22.33 | brlcad | noone is necessarily screwed either way |
| 20:22.39 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:23.00 | JeffM | and my point is if we have todo that, we've basicly got an HTTP interface to the new backend ;) |
| 20:23.12 | Wyk3d | adding support for the old to talk to the new would be the way to go definitely |
| 20:23.31 | JeffM | so then the old list server becomes an HTTP interface to the data |
| 20:23.36 | Wyk3d | does it have to be HTTP ? you can code php sockets afaik .. |
| 20:23.44 | brlcad | OR you make the new auth server talk to the old list daemon |
| 20:23.46 | JeffM | cus 2.0.x uses hTTP |
| 20:23.56 | brlcad | you can do it on either side equally well |
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| 20:24.12 | brlcad | and neither is really any more complex |
| 20:24.16 | JeffM | brlcad: that's back end, from the outside world it all looks like an HTTP interface to that new database, pesonlay I don't care hwo the backend works. |
| 20:24.32 | Wyk3d | no i mean, 2.0.x would connect to the list server as it does normally and the only thing that would change is that the list server would then contact the new auth daemon to validate the login and get a token |
| 20:24.52 | JeffM | Wyk3d: sure |
| 20:25.15 | JeffM | the HTTP is the part where the old clients talk to that old list server |
| 20:25.26 | JeffM | so that the old list server is basicly an HTTP interface |
| 20:25.36 | brlcad | that's my point though... it wouldn't need the http interface if it went to the new auth as a back-end detail |
| 20:25.36 | JeffM | it goes thru a couple steps, but it IS an HTTP interface |
| 20:25.36 | Wyk3d | both new and old clients would talk to the same list server |
| 20:26.10 | JeffM | server listing is cake, it should not be hard to add it to the new deamon |
| 20:26.18 | JeffM | for new servers |
| 20:26.24 | Wyk3d | brlcad: yes, with php sockets the daemon wouldn't need an http interface |
| 20:26.40 | JeffM | oh I've never meant that the deamon would have an HTTP interface |
| 20:26.45 | brlcad | php sockets?? |
| 20:26.54 | JeffM | I mean that the php list server becomes an efective http interface to the deamon |
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| 20:27.13 | brlcad | that would be adding support to the old for talking to the new |
| 20:27.28 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:27.29 | brlcad | which is fine with me, I don't see that being the issue |
| 20:27.46 | JeffM | there is an issue? |
| 20:27.55 | brlcad | i'm thinking of the design of the new interface and what it needs -- how things talk to it |
| 20:28.16 | JeffM | for that, it's all you guys, I shall not comment on that sucker ;) |
| 20:28.21 | JeffM | I've got enought to do |
| 20:28.47 | brlcad | that's what I was saying doesn't *need* to be via http, certainly could be but it doesn't buy much |
| 20:29.11 | Wyk3d | actually i think not using http might be easier, for me atleast |
| 20:29.18 | JeffM | let me know when you are done cus I gotta work up a plan for shots and I need some input :) |
| 20:30.01 | Wyk3d | and about how things talk, and what protocols (client-daemon, server-daemon), i've got that mostly figured out |
| 20:30.10 | blast007 | it would be trivial to finish up my list server rewrite, and the just modify the datalayer to talk to the auth daemon |
| 20:30.22 | brlcad | Wyk3d: that's the link/route that I'd be interested in seeing |
| 20:30.40 | Wyk3d | link/route ? |
| 20:30.51 | brlcad | client-daemon, server-daemon |
| 20:31.25 | brlcad | how they establish a connection, what they're chattering |
| 20:34.01 | Paul_PL | brlcad: Is the patch deadline the same as that for the applications? |
| 20:34.09 | Wyk3d | well, the way i figured auth could be done easily and in a safe enough manner is |
| 20:34.18 | Wyk3d | by using salted hashes |
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| 20:34.45 | Wyk3d | and having the daemon send a new random salt every time you log in |
| 20:35.19 | Wyk3d | so, when the server requests the client to authenticate |
| 20:35.32 | Wyk3d | it contacts the auth daemon which sends a salt to him |
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| 20:35.50 | Wyk3d | it hashes his password with the salt and sends it back |
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| 20:36.25 | brlcad | Paul_PL: no, but you should speak to it in the app (saying you're working on something) |
| 20:36.46 | brlcad | especially since it can be something trivial |
| 20:37.01 | brlcad | you could post something really easy, then work on something better if you want to impress |
| 20:37.49 | jorgenpt | Btw, the app deadline is only for the first revision, btw? |
| 20:37.52 | brlcad | that requirement was mostly added to make sure applicants do indeed look over our code, read it, compile it, know how to make/submit a patch |
| 20:37.55 | jorgenpt | Not the whole back-and-forth thing |
| 20:37.55 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16855 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/Flag.cxx: don't crash the client when doing flag negotiation a server without custom flags after having been on one with custom flags |
| 20:38.00 | jorgenpt | (with comments) |
| 20:38.00 | brlcad | jorgenpt: right |
| 20:38.19 | Wyk3d | sorry i said it wrong, the server asks the daemon for a salt, it sends this to the client, the client replies with a hash, the hash is validated by the daemon, then the server tells the client it can stay or kicks it |
| 20:38.25 | brlcad | though we can and probably will start ranking as soon as the app deadline closes |
| 20:38.47 | jorgenpt | brlcad: Btw, I guess you wouldn't consider any further work on bzrobots for gsoc? ;-P |
| 20:39.18 | brlcad | jorgenpt: why not? I'd love to see that continue to get worked on -- but it'd need to be very specific on the goals |
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| 20:39.47 | jorgenpt | brlcad: True. I'll see if I get time after classes tomorrow to write an application for gsoc, :-) |
| 20:40.25 | brlcad | it'll be competing with the other submissions on equal footing, just like the rest of the topics, based on the application quality, scope, etc |
| 20:42.15 | Wyk3d | there's also additional communication involved with ingame registration, i'd like to use RSA for that, openSSL has really nice RSA primitives |
| 20:42.27 | Wyk3d | brlcad: so does that answer your question ? :) |
| 20:42.55 | DTRemenak | is puzzled by the server clock |
| 20:43.57 | JeffM | DTRemenak: wierd isn't it? |
| 20:44.02 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 20:44.16 | JeffM | the SAME clock works on the client |
| 20:44.23 | DTRemenak | windows servers' clocks run fast. bizarre. |
| 20:44.37 | JeffM | throw GetTickCount In there, works fine |
| 20:44.59 | DTRemenak | well we're recalibrating against timeGetTime, just like on the client |
| 20:45.12 | DTRemenak | so it should always have a constant offset from the system clock |
| 20:45.18 | DTRemenak | we don't actually trust QPC |
| 20:45.25 | brlcad | Wyk3d: not really, that touches on one aspect of protocol, but I was referring to even lower level I think |
| 20:45.42 | JeffM | yeah I saw that, that was for the SportChick dealiy |
| 20:45.46 | jorgenpt | brlcad: What?! Don't I get an edge, just because I've participated before? |
| 20:45.48 | brlcad | as I could see it easily implemented as a set of new Msg packets using nethandler/serverlink |
| 20:45.58 | jorgenpt | I demand cuddling and higher priority! |
| 20:46.01 | JeffM | DTRemenak: I wonder if it has to do with the fact that one is a windows app and one is console |
| 20:46.08 | DTRemenak | could be :S |
| 20:46.20 | brlcad | then you could run your own bzauthd's embedded in the server if you wanted a local-only standalone game for example |
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| 20:47.05 | brlcad | jorgenpt: heh, your chances are certainly improved by the nature that we know you're familiar with the code base, know how you work, etc :) |
| 20:47.33 | Wyk3d | brlcad: yes it would be great if we could reuse existing serverlink/nethandler code .. so the question is, should we go that way or use sdlnet ? |
| 20:47.49 | jorgenpt | brlcad: True enough, but that's why you request community participation and patch submittal, isn't it? :) |
| 20:47.59 | jorgenpt | (prior to the deadline) |
| 20:50.21 | brlcad | Wyk3d: if you went that route, it would ideally be restructured/refactored out of the client into a lib |
| 20:50.38 | brlcad | but yes, it would make all the clients chatter through the same net interface |
| 20:51.40 | brlcad | otherwise, the utility diminishes and using libcurl or sdlnet becomes an interesting option |
| 20:52.39 | Wyk3d | they could be moved to the net project |
| 20:52.43 | Wyk3d | and make a lib out of them |
| 20:52.48 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16856 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: request high timer frequency on windows even if we're using QPC, since we re-sync it to TGT regardless. reduces QPF deltas on constant-clock systems. |
| 20:53.12 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16857 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC8/config.h: DEBUG_TRACE should flush output |
| 20:53.18 | JeffM | does that help it? |
| 20:53.21 | DTRemenak | no |
| 20:53.24 | JeffM | heh |
| 20:53.30 | DTRemenak | but it makes the QPC recalibration numbers prettier :) |
| 20:53.35 | JeffM | heh |
| 20:53.54 | DTRemenak | end up with +/- 0.1% or so on my system, rather than +/-5% |
| 20:54.10 | DTRemenak | but the server still runs fast |
| 20:55.07 | JeffM | now where to put the client's shot list |
| 20:55.35 | Wyk3d | there is some specific code in ServerLink::send that would need to be moved outta there .. |
| 20:57.31 | brlcad | Wyk3d: that would be awesome .. serverlink in particular needs to be generic -- it's just the connecting end of the link |
| 21:01.12 | Wyk3d | for code specific to the server and daemon communcation, maybe one could inherit from ServerLink |
| 21:01.47 | brlcad | you could conceivably inherit and register the set of Msg types allowed on the link |
| 21:02.07 | brlcad | so you could have a simple list link, and a more elaborate client link |
| 21:03.24 | Wyk3d | ListServerLink would have to stay, as I said the main part of list server communcation would continue using curl |
| 21:04.03 | Wyk3d | for now .. |
| 21:12.44 | Lukstr | is back. |
| 21:14.48 | brlcad | Wyk3d: for a gsoc proposal or indep? |
| 21:14.52 | blast007 | would the "Open Data License" of this be compatible for BZFlag? http://www.maxmind.com/download/geoip/database/LICENSE.txt |
| 21:15.17 | Wyk3d | for gsoc :) |
| 21:15.25 | Wyk3d | would it be too much ? |
| 21:17.02 | Wyk3d | or i guess i'm the only one who knows what is "too much" |
| 21:19.11 | blast007 | my client just crashes now when I try to connect to a server |
| 21:19.20 | JeffM | blast007: the advertising clause probably kills it |
| 21:20.17 | blast007 | "Run-Time Check Failure #0 - The value of ESP was not properly saved across a function call. This is usually a result of calling a function declared with one calling convention with a function pointer declared with a different calling convention." |
| 21:20.47 | blast007 | that's what I get when I debug the client in MSVC7.1, after trying to join a server |
| 21:22.08 | Lukstr | that is a glorious way to go out |
| 21:22.44 | blast007 | it's doing that on line 631 of CollisionManager.cxx (or the line before that) |
| 21:23.08 | blast007 | JeffM: did it work for you with VC8? |
| 21:23.27 | JeffM | yeah I joined my server and played |
| 21:23.30 | blast007 | hmm |
| 21:23.35 | blast007 | I'm going to build clean |
| 21:23.46 | JeffM | did you do a full rebuild? |
| 21:23.51 | JeffM | cus I changed a BUNCH of classes |
| 21:23.56 | JeffM | all the obstacles |
| 21:24.31 | blast007 | I'll rebuild |
| 21:24.47 | blast007 | I was able to get in and drive around once I hit 'Continue' about 30 times ;) |
| 21:25.38 | JeffM | a method was made virtual and moved into the derived classes, maybe it didn't rebuild all the callers do it and it's trying to call the method in the base class, that is now pure virtual |
| 21:36.41 | brlcad | blast007: that's a bsd license |
| 21:37.08 | brlcad | with the attribution clause |
| 21:37.11 | DTRemenak | HAH! |
| 21:37.19 | DTRemenak | JeffM: figured it out :) |
| 21:37.27 | brlcad | software is just lgpl though |
| 21:37.35 | JeffM | what was it? |
| 21:39.11 | DTRemenak | the qpc calibration calls logDebugMessage. logDebugMessage on the server is hooked into a logging callback. the API logging callback callse TimeKeeper::getCurrent... |
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| 21:39.33 | JeffM | ahh |
| 21:39.35 | DTRemenak | so it adds the differential twice, when calibrating the QPC |
| 21:39.57 | JeffM | that would make it go fast :) |
| 21:40.03 | DTRemenak | yes indeedy |
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| 21:44.17 | JeffM | does the qpc thing really need to log? |
| 21:44.26 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16858 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: set the qpcLastTime before calling logDebugMessage, just in case some callback is going to call getCurrent on top of us. Fixes windows server clock synch issues. |
| 21:44.47 | JeffM | yay |
| 21:44.50 | DTRemenak | it's useful if someone wants to know what's going on on their laptop |
| 21:45.04 | DTRemenak | but it doesn't need to log BEFORE it records that it's already recalibrated :) |
| 21:46.19 | DTRemenak | silly api hooks getting in the way... :P |
| 21:46.33 | DTRemenak | it's not *supposed* to be reentrant |
| 21:47.13 | DTRemenak | I now get nice <=0.01 deltas from the server clock though |
| 21:47.20 | JeffM | as it should be |
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| 22:03.34 | short_circuit | spldart's comcast connection is getting flaky :( |
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| 22:10.37 | AAA_awright | brlcad: Ping |
| 22:10.47 | brlcad | pong |
| 22:11.07 | AAA_awright | You have read up into my experiments with LDAP? |
| 22:11.43 | brlcad | some of them |
| 22:11.55 | brlcad | sounded like you got most of the webservices working that say work with ldap? :) |
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| 22:12.13 | AAA_awright | They work. It doesn't suit our needs, though (at least not all of them) |
| 22:12.27 | AAA_awright | We could make it work, is what I mean |
| 22:13.00 | brlcad | fwiw, only one of them needs the ability to write |
| 22:13.00 | AAA_awright | There is a big problem with changing usernames, phpbb needs a mod to support it, MediaWiki has no support whatsoever. |
| 22:13.24 | AAA_awright | Only MediaWIki supports changing passwords and email |
| 22:13.39 | brlcad | drupal supports full changes iirc |
| 22:13.53 | AAA_awright | In version 6, there has been no port to version 7 |
| 22:14.09 | brlcad | in version 5, there's been no port to the just released version 6 |
| 22:14.10 | AAA_awright | I don't know if the latest version matters to us or not |
| 22:14.31 | AAA_awright | :/ I'll check the numbering |
| 22:14.34 | brlcad | doesn't matter |
| 22:14.48 | brlcad | they did just have a major release so most of the modules aren't updated yet |
| 22:14.54 | brlcad | that's not really critical |
| 22:15.08 | brlcad | their upgrades are pretty easy |
| 22:15.17 | brlcad | s/pretty/very/ |
| 22:15.26 | AAA_awright | I'll look into that then |
| 22:16.02 | AAA_awright | I'm not so sure about operating Drupal, I have been looking into a MediaWiki based website (it... works. Not great, but it works) |
| 22:16.31 | brlcad | feature-wise, though -- the important aspect is to have create/read/write support in the client and at least one place on-line, and then at least read for the rest of any integrated services |
| 22:17.34 | Wyk3d | AAA_awright: do you know what hash cyphers do MediaWiki/phpBB use for the passwords stored in LDAP ? |
| 22:17.44 | AAA_awright | I would like to have one login area, and implement authentication handlers for all the other programs that validate your session in the primary login program |
| 22:17.47 | brlcad | mediwiki can be integrated seamlessly with drupal fwiw |
| 22:18.00 | AAA_awright | Wyk3d: md5 and crypt, at the minimum |
| 22:18.28 | brlcad | that would be read/write in one place, and read everywhere else... |
| 22:18.51 | AAA_awright | We would have to disable write in the other programs |
| 22:19.07 | brlcad | unless the writes didn't actually cause a problem |
| 22:19.19 | AAA_awright | It is a UI issue above all else |
| 22:19.43 | brlcad | sure |
| 22:20.12 | brlcad | but far from a major one if it's not something easy to keep maintained |
| 22:20.34 | short_circuit | meh.. nobody checked on spldart update second paragraph of wiki auto-prop.. I misspelled.. now corrected ;~) hehe |
| 22:21.10 | *** join/#bzflag Mets (n=Mets@JETSTAR.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 22:21.38 | pacman87 | Mets: any luck with the plugin compiling? |
| 22:21.50 | Mets | hey pac, no luck :( |
| 22:22.07 | Mets | actually I tested the plugins that did compile; even though they load, they don't really work |
| 22:22.26 | Mets | like with chathistory for example, /last always gives no results |
| 22:22.34 | Mets | playhistorytracker doesn't keep track of kills, etc. |
| 22:22.46 | AAA_awright | MediaWiki also messes up the capitalization on the username |
| 22:22.52 | AAA_awright | callsign |
| 22:23.08 | AAA_awright | That is another UI issue, we need to call it a "callsign" throughout, not username |
| 22:23.12 | Mets | I'm going to try to setup a new server I think |
| 22:26.04 | AAA_awright | Wyk3d: LDAP authenticates the password, you can store the password as anything |
| 22:26.22 | blast007 | brlcad: I think the issue with username changes was that phpBB would create a whole new account if the LDAP username changed |
| 22:26.32 | blast007 | AAA_awright: right? |
| 22:26.49 | AAA_awright | MediaWiki supports writing a new password in plain text, sha1, and crypt, and phpBB can write it as md5, crypt, and plain text |
| 22:26.55 | AAA_awright | blast007: Correct |
| 22:27.29 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 22:27.30 | AAA_awright | The proper thing to do is store the DN, but no program does that, it just stores the username. |
| 22:27.49 | AAA_awright | the DN is unique and does not change, the username may however. |
| 22:28.16 | blast007 | basically, they *barely* support LDAP ;) |
| 22:28.28 | whodaman | heh |
| 22:28.31 | blast007 | they only use it for auth |
| 22:28.52 | brlcad | blast007: that's why I qualified it "if it doesn't cause a problem", but then there may very well still be some that need modified (as it sounds phpbb may be) |
| 22:29.17 | brlcad | course there is a phpbb module for drupal, I would expect that to do better |
| 22:29.50 | blast007 | phpBB module? that does what? shows a phpBB forum inside a drupal site? |
| 22:29.54 | brlcad | i hear it's a bit of a bear to set up |
| 22:30.01 | brlcad | yeah |
| 22:30.14 | blast007 | might as well install phpNuke/postNuke then :P |
| 22:30.27 | brlcad | well it is presented however you like |
| 22:30.44 | brlcad | hm? |
| 22:31.41 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep) |
| 22:32.35 | brlcad | the integration is one of the user entities, the display and embedding in the site is entirely separate for most modules |
| 22:32.50 | AAA_awright | What I want to do is have a central login place, then program custom authentication handlers for each of the programs that will automatically log in users if their session checks out |
| 22:33.09 | AAA_awright | That seems convenient and better then LDAP, after my testing |
| 22:34.31 | donny_baker | AAA_awright: but do we still get scalability and redundency |
| 22:34.34 | AAA_awright | Opinions? |
| 22:34.35 | ep | Ok, I changed the "resolution" line in my cfg file to reflect that of my new moniter. bzflag is still bailing out with "could not set Video Mode: couldn't find matching GLX visual." |
| 22:34.45 | brlcad | programming custom authentication handlers for each program, particularly as they are updated, sounds like a maintenance burden to me, and doesn't address some of the other issues still |
| 22:34.49 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (i=127@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 22:35.16 | AAA_awright | donny_baker: Yes, with either an LDAP or MySQL backend for passwords with such a solution |
| 22:35.51 | AAA_awright | The biggest problem is MediaWiki has no support for username changes, period. People insert their username as plain text into articles. |
| 22:35.51 | brlcad | so you're just basically back to pimping mysql? :) |
| 22:36.04 | brlcad | sees a trend |
| 22:36.23 | AAA_awright | It isn't MySQL vs LDAP at this point, it is how do we make authentication work. |
| 22:37.19 | AAA_awright | What if we used the BZID as the official username? |
| 22:37.24 | Wyk3d | is there really a need to change usernames ? |
| 22:37.37 | blast007 | Wyk3d: we currently allow it |
| 22:37.43 | blast007 | and it currently works |
| 22:37.57 | brlcad | mediawiki not having support for name changes is a problem regardless of the backend |
| 22:37.59 | blast007 | but that's just because our auth is tied into phpBB heavily |
| 22:38.14 | AAA_awright | Anyone ever see the Facebook developers wiki? |
| 22:38.49 | AAA_awright | It uses the user ID as the username, but automatically logs you in, and identifies you by your name everywhere in place of your username. |
| 22:38.54 | AAA_awright | I would like to clone that somehow |
| 22:39.18 | brlcad | being able to create/change/edit inside the client is the most important interface to me, followed closely behind by a single website interface mechanism for managing accounts |
| 22:39.58 | AAA_awright | Personally I want the client for playing games, website for maintaining user data. That is a minor style difference, I don't really care too much as long as it looks natural. |
| 22:40.31 | Wyk3d | would like to code a /register command :) |
| 22:40.40 | brlcad | there used to be one |
| 22:40.50 | AAA_awright | There is local registration for servers |
| 22:40.52 | brlcad | when we had local auth |
| 22:40.53 | blast007 | Wyk3d: and send your username/password to the server? ;) |
| 22:40.59 | Wyk3d | RSA ftw! |
| 22:41.09 | AAA_awright | We don't still? I used it a while back doing tests for some project. |
| 22:41.49 | blast007 | AAA_awright: 2.99.x has no local auth |
| 22:41.49 | *** join/#bzflag Ebert (n=EbErT@adsl-19-79-74.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:42.14 | AAA_awright | If someone needs it, I guess it could be a plugin. |
| 22:42.22 | blast007 | yeah |
| 22:42.28 | AAA_awright | Nice to take out the "fat" |
| 22:42.33 | brlcad | AAA_awright: you can have whatever preference you like, but I will argue heavily with anyone on the usability impact of being able to register and play without hitting up a website or an e-mail client |
| 22:42.57 | brlcad | that's one of the core criteria points of having bzauthd in the first place, fwiw |
| 22:43.01 | AAA_awright | I don't think that matters at all, as long as people can play anonymously |
| 22:43.14 | blast007 | brlcad: or we could just throw the Gecko engine into the BZFlag client ;) |
| 22:43.15 | Wyk3d | from personal experience, it took me a while until I realized that registering your callsign is equivalent to registering on the forum |
| 22:43.16 | blast007 | ducks |
| 22:43.19 | AAA_awright | blast007: :) |
| 22:43.21 | brlcad | you're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it may be :) |
| 22:43.34 | brlcad | blast007: that would be better than what we have |
| 22:43.38 | blast007 | heh |
| 22:43.42 | brlcad | users don't care about what the backend does |
| 22:44.14 | AAA_awright | Also, we need to consider the UI for registering, since we cannot change it if we needed to. |
| 22:44.30 | blast007 | would it be feasible to have it pull down the required fields from the auth/registration server? |
| 22:44.42 | AAA_awright | XForms, maybe? |
| 22:44.57 | blast007 | (so we could add stuff later) |
| 22:44.59 | blast007 | maybe |
| 22:45.01 | AAA_awright | blast007: yeah |
| 22:45.04 | brlcad | huh? we can change anything .. and do from time to time; just has to be careful with regards to user impact |
| 22:45.17 | AAA_awright | With a new client release |
| 22:45.19 | blast007 | brlcad: I mean so that the older clients would get the new fields too |
| 22:45.45 | brlcad | yeah, that would be ideal |
| 22:46.25 | blast007 | pull down an XML file with the details, parse it, and generate a nice form. Throw in a captcha, and have curl grab that too |
| 22:46.53 | AAA_awright | Seems like a job for Xforms! |
| 22:47.04 | AAA_awright | ...there is no good Xforms library that I know of though |
| 22:47.27 | Wyk3d | i was thinking of a /register command with a simple password + email address as parameters for starters .. |
| 22:47.50 | Wyk3d | but yeah showing an entire reg form would be a lot cooler |
| 22:48.10 | blast007 | Wyk3d: / commands typically get sent to the bzflag server |
| 22:48.11 | brlcad | far from necessary imho though too .. requiring clients to upgrade to get new features is pretty standard behavior for games |
| 22:48.21 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-218-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:48.21 | blast007 | and can only be accessed once you are in a game server |
| 22:48.28 | blast007 | since the 'n' key is only active then |
| 22:48.31 | AAA_awright | commands are sent to the server, Wyk3d, the client doesn't usually intercept such commands |
| 22:48.33 | Wyk3d | "typically" you can hook into that and do it differently |
| 22:48.44 | blast007 | Wyk3d: still have to be in a game server to run it |
| 22:48.50 | donny_baker | AAA_awright: so the issue with mediawiki is that their usernames are stored as plain text on the pages? |
| 22:48.51 | AAA_awright | Some extra handlers are added to /quit, /part, and /set |
| 22:48.57 | donny_baker | is that really an issue? |
| 22:49.03 | brlcad | finding a lightweight integratable xml parser isn't usually fun iirc |
| 22:49.04 | blast007 | donny_baker: not really |
| 22:49.09 | blast007 | donny_baker: but phpBB does the same thing |
| 22:49.10 | Wyk3d | yes, you log into a server, it tells you that you need to register, so what do you do ? "/register .." |
| 22:49.20 | blast007 | donny_baker: phpBB creates a new account if you change the LDAP username |
| 22:49.22 | JeffM | Wyk3d: quit and go to the fourms |
| 22:49.24 | AAA_awright | donny_baker: Yes, because you can't change the usernames if they are stored as text (you could if they were stored as user IDs) |
| 22:49.35 | AAA_awright | blast007: I patched that though |
| 22:49.39 | blast007 | AAA_awright: oh |
| 22:49.49 | AAA_awright | It now checks the uid, not username |
| 22:49.57 | JeffM | Wyk3d: the goal would be to have servers that require ID to send a bit to the list server so that clients can know that they need to be registered before they try to join |
| 22:50.00 | brlcad | Wyk3d: I'd actually look for a register option in the menus as a new user |
| 22:50.13 | donny_baker | right, but all it does is remember the old username.. which isn't horrible in that instance |
| 22:50.22 | JeffM | and yes the game on first luanch or install should ask you to register if you aren't |
| 22:50.29 | AAA_awright | JeffM: I plan to have basic permissions data sent to the list server |
| 22:50.38 | JeffM | AAA_awright: why/ |
| 22:50.43 | AAA_awright | Groups required to join, groups required to talk |
| 22:50.51 | AAA_awright | etc. |
| 22:50.55 | JeffM | why? |
| 22:51.04 | AAA_awright | So you are not shown servers that you cannot join |
| 22:51.07 | brlcad | if you *need* or want to register it should ask.. |
| 22:52.00 | AAA_awright | Similar to the -advertise option |
| 22:52.04 | brlcad | it's been nice feature that you can get into the game having never played with less than 8 keystrokes |
| 22:52.18 | JeffM | AAA_awright: why not just use advertise and NOT list them |
| 22:52.20 | brlcad | and can replay with just two |
| 22:52.20 | AAA_awright | brlcad: Ditto |
| 22:52.32 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Because server owners are stupid |
| 22:52.41 | AAA_awright | I know some of them |
| 22:52.42 | blast007 | AAA_awright: that's not our fault |
| 22:52.58 | blast007 | besides, they might have directions ON their server of how to be allowed to play |
| 22:53.02 | blast007 | like for a league |
| 22:53.06 | JeffM | AAA_awright: you can have the server pick the advertise groups automaticly, but that dosn't mean you need a NEW mechanism |
| 22:53.21 | JeffM | smart advertise is a good thing |
| 22:53.32 | brlcad | and if people don't see it, there is nearly zero incentive or ways to find out about it |
| 22:53.33 | AAA_awright | blast007: The -advertise option would be able to override that then, maybe |
| 22:53.39 | JeffM | a new system that sends more data just cus you didn't want to do smart advertise is silly |
| 22:53.44 | blast007 | I don't see how it's a problem right now |
| 22:53.46 | brlcad | so you have a registration required section on the server list |
| 22:53.48 | AAA_awright | Point is, make it opt-in instead of opt-out |
| 22:54.03 | JeffM | AAA_awright: you can do that using the advertise system |
| 22:54.50 | AAA_awright | It isn't always clear that that option exists. If you cannot join the server, don't show it. |
| 22:55.22 | *** join/#bzflag FalseProphet (n=Gigi@unaffiliated/emonemo) |
| 22:55.25 | blast007 | AAA_awright: then make it more clear |
| 22:55.29 | JeffM | AAA_awright: that's what you can use adverise for, automaticly, just code it up on the server. ON start check the groups perms and build up advertise based on that |
| 22:55.30 | brlcad | show it somewhere else clearly |
| 22:55.57 | JeffM | you don't need to send anything else to the server |
| 22:56.03 | blast007 | JeffM: I dont really like that idea |
| 22:56.09 | JeffM | blast007: nor do I |
| 22:56.19 | JeffM | but we fore sure don't need to send perm groups to the server ;) |
| 22:56.22 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Yeah (I think) |
| 22:56.26 | Flash | any mofo admins here? |
| 22:56.36 | blast007 | if someone has a league server that only one group can spawn, but it shows directions of how to get added ON the server... well... you get the idea |
| 22:56.54 | JeffM | blast007: yes, it should be up to the owner |
| 22:56.58 | blast007 | Flash: try ##planetmofo |
| 22:57.13 | JeffM | I'm just trying to say that if he wants that route, he dosn't need any more list server features he has them |
| 22:57.24 | AAA_awright | blast007: If someone is interested in a league, that should be on the league website. The server list isn't a billboard. |
| 22:57.35 | JeffM | a bit for reg woudl be nice cus then it coudl list and prompt people to reg |
| 22:57.39 | short_circuit | party @ my house... the bbq is coming out great! Wish you were here. /OT |
| 22:57.47 | JeffM | AAA_awright: that's up the owners to decide, not you. |
| 22:57.57 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I join league servers periodically to just watch them... so now you're wanting to block me from even observing? |
| 22:58.10 | blast007 | sure, I can't play/talk, but I can watch |
| 22:58.17 | AAA_awright | My idea is have not only an advertise group list, but the server automatically sends two similar lists: minimum-to-talk groups, minimum-to-enter groups. |
| 22:58.25 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 22:58.29 | AAA_awright | Simple, just an extra column on the database |
| 22:58.34 | blast007 | we don't need to idiot-proof the server configuration |
| 22:58.39 | AAA_awright | We kinda do |
| 22:58.41 | blast007 | idiots shouldn't run servers |
| 22:58.43 | JeffM | AAA_awright: it's not implementation we care about ,it's the need for the feature |
| 22:58.46 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-75-36-38-29.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:58.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 22:59.53 | JeffM | as blast007 has said, I too would like to SHOW the servers if they allow the general public, even if it does require reg, and just tell the user that it requires registration |
| 23:00.02 | JeffM | if you want to hide your server, that is what advertise is for |
| 23:00.10 | JeffM | we don't need to handle every specific case for them |
| 23:00.41 | AAA_awright | People don't generally use -advertise. Figure out how to make them more aware of that, then? |
| 23:00.50 | JeffM | I would not mind an "org name" for the servers too |
| 23:00.54 | JeffM | so you can group them by leauge |
| 23:01.09 | JeffM | AAA_awright: sure I'll agree with that, we have to train people better. |
| 23:01.25 | JeffM | not all social problmes have techincal solutions ;) |
| 23:01.38 | AAA_awright | I threw the idea out, is is possible to attach a callsign or organization to a server? |
| 23:01.46 | JeffM | not at this time |
| 23:01.48 | AAA_awright | I mean, would it be a good idea? |
| 23:01.54 | JeffM | I would like to |
| 23:02.00 | JeffM | so you can do tab sorts on the name |
| 23:02.10 | JeffM | for leagues or server famialys |
| 23:02.33 | AAA_awright | How would you go about that, then? Ask for a callsign and password starting a server? |
| 23:02.37 | blast007 | I'd like to even require that for hosting 3.0 servers :) |
| 23:02.47 | JeffM | AAA_awright: there are many ways to do it |
| 23:02.56 | JeffM | you could tie it to the group manager |
| 23:03.10 | JeffM | and have the group have a list of servers that are tied to the org by name and port |
| 23:03.10 | blast007 | AAA_awright: could do it that way. Some people were concerned about "people on the same machine stealing the username/password details" |
| 23:03.14 | JeffM | then the group manager give that name out |
| 23:03.26 | JeffM | that way nothing is sent |
| 23:03.36 | JeffM | so gu would register a gu org |
| 23:03.52 | JeffM | then provide the group manager with a list of servers that are approved org servers |
| 23:04.02 | JeffM | then the list server could check them against the manager |
| 23:04.12 | AAA_awright | That was an example. I was thinking, we could attach a UUID to the server, then in the group manager, attach a callsign to the UUID/ |
| 23:04.24 | JeffM | host/port is a UUID |
| 23:04.38 | JeffM | and why does it need a calsign? |
| 23:04.50 | JeffM | calsigns are for players not servers |
| 23:05.28 | AAA_awright | I mean a rfc 4122 UUID. And a host/port is generally not unique, multiple servers operate over time on port 5154 for example. |
| 23:05.36 | AAA_awright | Not to mention, different domains. |
| 23:05.51 | JeffM | for our needs a hostname/port combo is unique enough |
| 23:06.09 | JeffM | and flexable enough to let server owners change stuff with out invalidating evertything |
| 23:06.11 | AAA_awright | Not in my experience |
| 23:06.22 | JeffM | you've had people steal your hostname? |
| 23:06.59 | AAA_awright | No, but if you connect to an IP and not a domain, it changes everything. And I don't know why you would want a callsign attached to a server, I had a good idea at some point though... |
| 23:07.12 | JeffM | what does attaching a callsign do? |
| 23:07.22 | AAA_awright | Nothing (right now) |
| 23:07.28 | JeffM | I can see attaching some name to the servers for sorting |
| 23:07.30 | AAA_awright | Identify the owner? |
| 23:07.37 | JeffM | we can do that with the group onwer |
| 23:07.39 | L4m3r | still likes the idea of having an official "owner" for listed servers |
| 23:07.41 | JeffM | owner |
| 23:08.01 | JeffM | the group manager can let us tie users to servers |
| 23:08.07 | JeffM | thats where we can do that link |
| 23:08.27 | AAA_awright | Doing it through domain and port would to it automatically, not by choice |
| 23:08.27 | JeffM | I don't think we can get away with requireing public servers to provide us with an e-mail address or anything |
| 23:08.48 | JeffM | AAA_awright: the choice would be them setting up the server in the group manager |
| 23:10.00 | JeffM | I mean there are things we are probalby never going to do with the list, like not let just anyone list a game |
| 23:10.11 | JeffM | and not force everyone in the world to use registration |
| 23:10.43 | JeffM | now, I'd not mind saying if you want to use global groups in the new group manager, you provide us with the list of servers/ports that you are going to use them on |
| 23:10.52 | JeffM | that gives us a good server -> user map for those systems |
| 23:11.26 | JeffM | and for them we can then provide those orgs to the listing clients to use for sorting |
| 23:11.39 | JeffM | that lets people opt in, and lets them manage servers however they want |
| 23:11.58 | JeffM | and gives leauges a good powerfull key for stores search tabs |
| 23:13.29 | JeffM | and any org that uses an IP for a host name and then worders why anotehr server got there org tag, gets what they deserve |
| 23:13.47 | JeffM | cus in the end it's JUST a tag for sorting |
| 23:14.05 | AAA_awright | Uh, yeah |
| 23:14.12 | brlcad | ~seen mayB |
| 23:14.17 | ibot | mayb <n=mayur@c-67-191-238-17.hsd1.ga.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 5d 18h 15m 8s ago, saying: 'ok i got it'. |
| 23:14.34 | JeffM | I also like it because it dosn't require the server to send anything extra |
| 23:14.48 | JeffM | it's all group manager/list server code we controll |
| 23:19.15 | AAA_awright | Interesting: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:PHPBB/Users_Integration |
| 23:19.52 | JeffM | what is wrong with just letting drupal do all the user management? |
| 23:20.10 | a_meteorite | drupal? ugh |
| 23:20.19 | blast007 | a_meteorite: heh.. |
| 23:20.23 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Nothing |
| 23:20.39 | blast007 | a_meteorite: It's not my favorite, but it does have the features we need. |
| 23:20.40 | AAA_awright | I haven't decided if Drupal is the best idea yet |
| 23:20.50 | JeffM | is it hard to turn off user management in the other systems, at least for the stuff that drupal will manage? |
| 23:20.53 | a_meteorite | blast007: drupal is the reason I hate CMS's :) |
| 23:20.57 | AAA_awright | I think having one website (not website+wiki) is best, however we do that |
| 23:21.17 | AAA_awright | Drupal is amazing in some respects, and awful in others (look at the code sometime) |
| 23:21.40 | Lukstr | AAA_awright: generated code? |
| 23:21.41 | a_meteorite | code-wise, yes, it's god awful |
| 23:22.02 | blast007 | a_meteorite: is it as bad as the current php list server? ;) |
| 23:22.15 | JeffM | or phpbb2? |
| 23:22.32 | a_meteorite | phpbb is right there up with it, phpbb3 improved marginally, imho |
| 23:22.32 | Lukstr | well what do you expect with PHP :P |
| 23:22.39 | blast007 | ~lart Lukstr |
| 23:22.39 | ibot | breaks out the Hoover and sucks up Lukstr |
| 23:22.49 | Lukstr | aw |
| 23:22.55 | Lukstr | hey I like PHP, it just sucks. |
| 23:22.56 | a_meteorite | Lukstr: good PHP is very clean and very functional |
| 23:23.06 | JeffM | but it's still php ;) |
| 23:23.16 | Lukstr | a_meteorite: not disagreeing, but the problems with PHP have little to do with the user :) |
| 23:23.17 | a_meteorite | I think frameworks are going to pick up more speed, especially the well thought out ones |
| 23:23.28 | Lukstr | or poor uses of PHP. |
| 23:23.30 | a_meteorite | yeah, the problem is not with PHP, but with the programmer |
| 23:23.52 | a_meteorite | take a look at Zend Framework - amazing use of OOP |
| 23:23.54 | Lukstr | a_meteorite: surely you mean the programmers of PHP, not programmers who _use_ PHP |
| 23:24.06 | AAA_awright | PHP is very good for it's use, that is embedded inside a markup |
| 23:24.10 | a_meteorite | Lukstr: no, the people who think they are using it |
| 23:24.19 | Lukstr | I think the devs need to be slapped around a bit. |
| 23:24.25 | AAA_awright | Don't consider it for stuff like event-driven programs (php-gtk) |
| 23:24.32 | a_meteorite | the programmers put the functionality in, but the problem lies with people sticking with too much legacy thought |
| 23:24.47 | a_meteorite | the devs are not perfect, but for the most part they've done a good job and continue to do so |
| 23:25.18 | Lukstr | a_meteorite: I suppose but there are way to many huge problems with PHP. They really need to revamp the whole freaking thing for the next version, and completely drop backwards compatibility. |
| 23:25.18 | a_meteorite | what other web programming language alternatives do you have? CGI/Perl/C? python? ruby? I don't know what we'd do if that's all we had.. |
| 23:25.35 | a_meteorite | they are getting "closer" to that :) |
| 23:25.41 | JeffM | Lukstr: haven't they done that like 3 times already? |
| 23:25.55 | a_meteorite | JeffM: somehow they manage to keep the old functionality in and add more |
| 23:25.59 | Lukstr | JeffM: aha, they have, but completely missed the point every time :) |
| 23:26.16 | AAA_awright | I am going to program up a list server, I think I have a very good idea how to do it |
| 23:26.20 | JeffM | :) |
| 23:26.27 | AAA_awright | Single sign in |
| 23:26.51 | blast007 | before you go off and code it all up, plan it out and share the details with us |
| 23:26.59 | blast007 | otherwise you might just waste your time |
| 23:26.59 | JeffM | AAA_awright: are you going to keep it in a VCS so others can work on it with you or just do a code drop whenh done? |
| 23:27.00 | AAA_awright | I need to make sure it workd |
| 23:27.12 | blast007 | you need to make sure we *want* it |
| 23:27.17 | blast007 | THEN you go make sure it works |
| 23:27.24 | AAA_awright | I was gonna make a Wiki page |
| 23:27.36 | AAA_awright | W/w? w. |
| 23:27.39 | JeffM | AAA_awright: because if a SoC student gets the auth project we will expect them to work on it |
| 23:27.48 | Lukstr | Any bugs/features besides those in TODO that I should know about? |
| 23:27.58 | JeffM | Lukstr: sf bugs list |
| 23:28.07 | JeffM | tand the bugs file |
| 23:28.09 | Lukstr | hm |
| 23:28.11 | a_meteorite | wonders what would happen if source code was like a wiki... everyone could work on it without any credentials |
| 23:28.20 | AAA_awright | ! |
| 23:28.22 | JeffM | a_meteorite: it would be horible |
| 23:28.38 | a_meteorite | JeffM: having AAA_awright document on the wiki made me think of that... and, yeah, it'd be horrible |
| 23:28.41 | AAA_awright | a_meteorite: Ever heard of the code complexity theory? |
| 23:28.57 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=Ride-@24-197-250-9.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com) |
| 23:29.02 | AAA_awright | a_meteorite: Code complexity is the square of the number of developers |
| 23:29.03 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: no, and I don't think I really want to when "complexity" is in the name :) |
| 23:29.18 | Lukstr | a_meteorite: it would be awful. |
| 23:29.22 | AAA_awright | I don't know the real name |
| 23:29.23 | Lukstr | Think "Microsoft" |
| 23:29.24 | a_meteorite | so that means the least complex code is by one developer, and also the least functional |
| 23:30.20 | JeffM | AAA_awright: I would highly recomend waiting to see what SoC projects we get and approve |
| 23:30.34 | JeffM | I don't want your work to go the way of that guy that redid BZFS |
| 23:30.43 | a_meteorite | JeffM: when will google announce how many devs they'll take on? |
| 23:30.53 | JeffM | a_meteorite: dosnt' work like that |
| 23:31.01 | AAA_awright | By themself |
| 23:31.06 | a_meteorite | oh, I thought they only take on x amount of people per project |
| 23:31.09 | *** part/#bzflag Mets (n=Mets@JETSTAR.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 23:31.16 | a_meteorite | some projects more, some less |
| 23:31.21 | JeffM | a_meteorite: they take on X number of proposals per project |
| 23:31.27 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 23:31.30 | JeffM | once all the propsals are in, we rank them |
| 23:31.34 | JeffM | then asign mentors to them |
| 23:31.43 | JeffM | then they tell us how many of those we get |
| 23:31.47 | a_meteorite | do they decide on which proposals? or do they just say "pick these many of all your proposals"? |
| 23:31.59 | JeffM | read what I said |
| 23:32.04 | JeffM | we rank them |
| 23:32.07 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 23:32.08 | AAA_awright | I'm gonna create a wiki page at http://my.bzflag.org/w/Services_Proposal , k? |
| 23:32.10 | JeffM | and asign mentors to them |
| 23:32.18 | JeffM | AAA_awright: sure whatever |
| 23:32.28 | JeffM | AAA_awright: but what is your source controll plan? |
| 23:34.00 | AAA_awright | Use the bzflag SVN where appropriate (group manager), I'll see what works for everyone |
| 23:34.38 | AAA_awright | Git? |
| 23:34.46 | JeffM | hah |
| 23:34.52 | AAA_awright | That encourages (forces) comminication |
| 23:35.03 | JeffM | and crapy tools |
| 23:35.24 | AAA_awright | I don't think so, actually, much better then SVN I would say |
| 23:35.25 | JeffM | and what if we accept a SoC Project for an auth system with a plan that differes from yours? |
| 23:35.32 | JeffM | I've tried to use GIT |
| 23:35.34 | JeffM | it blows |
| 23:35.36 | JeffM | big time |
| 23:35.40 | AAA_awright | How long ago? |
| 23:35.45 | JeffM | week or so |
| 23:35.59 | JeffM | maybe in a couple years when the useability is worked out |
| 23:36.17 | brlcad | a_meteorite: on the 14th |
| 23:36.26 | AAA_awright | Hm. It is very different, but it seems like it was designed just for projects like BZFlag, where multiple people, some untrusted, work on the same thing |
| 23:36.38 | JeffM | patches work for us |
| 23:36.43 | JeffM | the offline history is nice |
| 23:36.45 | JeffM | the concept is nice |
| 23:36.48 | AAA_awright | Where multiple experiential forks occur |
| 23:36.52 | JeffM | just the GIT implementaion kinda sucks |
| 23:36.59 | JeffM | we can do forks, we just don't |
| 23:37.20 | JeffM | but mostly I'm very concerned about your work overlaping wiht a SoC project |
| 23:37.21 | AAA_awright | patches work, but it doesn't directly attribute the author (you are good about leaving the author in comments, so it isn't bad) |
| 23:37.28 | brlcad | please GIT blows |
| 23:37.55 | Lukstr | GIT is... different. |
| 23:37.56 | brlcad | it really has absurd usability for petty benefit |
| 23:37.57 | AAA_awright | It isn't an acronym... |
| 23:38.12 | brlcad | nor is SVN |
| 23:38.19 | brlcad | but we still cap it too usually |
| 23:38.29 | brlcad | and that's nitpicking |
| 23:38.32 | AAA_awright | Because we do not question that :) |
| 23:38.42 | AAA_awright | Back to the topic... |
| 23:38.55 | JeffM | so seriously, SoC conflits, what about that? |
| 23:41.56 | AAA_awright | I ignore it, then fight it, then forget about it. |
| 23:42.04 | AAA_awright | Or something like that. |
| 23:42.08 | JeffM | huh? |
| 23:42.22 | AAA_awright | I'll deal with that as it comes, I guess. |
| 23:42.36 | JeffM | ooooohhhhhkkkkkaaayyyyy |
| 23:42.47 | AAA_awright | Hopefully this will be thought out well enough that this is the best-working solution. |
| 23:42.53 | JeffM | you woudl not rather work WITH the student? |
| 23:43.07 | AAA_awright | I would love to have someone to work with |
| 23:43.21 | JeffM | and a mentor |
| 23:43.29 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 23:43.43 | JeffM | but you'd not be able to just go and do the students work for them, it'd have to be you know, planning and stuff. |
| 23:44.09 | JeffM | notes that he does NOT want to mentor that sucker ;) |
| 23:44.12 | Lukstr | to ensure you were both not doing the same thing :P |
| 23:44.21 | JeffM | yes |
| 23:44.28 | AAA_awright | As I said, Winny will help, Constitution has the group manager, meteorite would... do stuff (so he says), I would love input from anyone |
| 23:44.31 | JeffM | and to make the best use of everyones time |
| 23:44.49 | JeffM | AAA_awright: sounds like the project is more for you then it is for bzflag |
| 23:45.24 | AAA_awright | To be honest, in a way, it is. I have lots to lose if this doesn't go well (web login fails, list server fails, etc) |
| 23:45.48 | JeffM | we have the same to loose |
| 23:45.50 | blast007 | not really. We just revert, or fix it. |
| 23:45.51 | AAA_awright | Exactly |
| 23:46.10 | JeffM | but the way you put it, it's all going thru you, not thru the bzflag project |
| 23:46.59 | JeffM | and if we have a student/mentor combo, it's gotta be the bzflag project doing it, with some of the work being done by you guys |
| 23:47.07 | JeffM | not you guys doing it and then saying "here" |
| 23:47.17 | AAA_awright | Alright, any requirements or features to add to this list? http://my.bzflag.org/w/Services_Proposal |
| 23:47.17 | JeffM | I just want to make sure you understand that |
| 23:48.03 | JeffM | backwards compatbility with old servers and clietns, somehow |
| 23:48.12 | JeffM | the min requirements, take them out |
| 23:48.35 | JeffM | what does "image uploading" mean? |
| 23:48.47 | blast007 | texture hosting |
| 23:48.53 | JeffM | oh that just uses webauth |
| 23:48.56 | AAA_awright | image hosting. |
| 23:48.58 | AAA_awright | Yeah. |
| 23:49.09 | JeffM | consider it a thirt party |
| 23:49.23 | JeffM | it also needs to be ether distributed or replicatable |
| 23:49.38 | AAA_awright | k |
| 23:49.42 | JeffM | no single point of failure |
| 23:49.45 | blast007 | it also needs more cowbell. |
| 23:49.47 | JeffM | I'd say that is the core goal of the entire thing |
| 23:50.05 | JeffM | moving away from apachee and other bloatware is good |
| 23:50.11 | JeffM | but redundancy is key |
| 23:50.21 | JeffM | and the ability to spread the load |
| 23:50.32 | JeffM | the next thing would be maintainability |
| 23:50.36 | JeffM | and modularity |
| 23:50.40 | JeffM | after that, comes the features |
| 23:52.43 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@pool-72-93-105-64.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:55.36 | AAA_awright | We need to discuss the main website. I would like to minimize the number of programs we use, if we have a Wiki, I feel that should be the website too. |
| 23:56.03 | AAA_awright | The only real CMS thing we need is news, but it can't be too hard to post a news article to MediaWiki every two months or so, right? |
| 23:56.20 | AAA_awright | Consider Wikinews |
| 23:56.55 | JeffM | there are more things we'd like to do with it |
| 23:57.01 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@66.15.119.25) |
| 23:57.03 | AAA_awright | Stats |
| 23:57.13 | AAA_awright | hm. Either that, or an all-drupal website, where we give permission to edit all articles to registered users. It is harder to link between pages, though. |
| 23:57.35 | JeffM | I don't think we have any problem using drupal and wikimedia |
| 23:57.50 | JeffM | that has been the discussed and agreed on plan |
| 23:58.09 | AAA_awright | It isn't difficult to program extensions for MediaWiki |
| 23:58.23 | JeffM | what extensions would we need? |
| 23:58.31 | AAA_awright | For server stats, if we wanted |
| 23:58.41 | AAA_awright | I don't like the linking between the website and Wiki, that is all. It works, but I don't settle for that. |
| 23:58.41 | JeffM | why would we put that into wikimedia? |
| 23:58.53 | JeffM | AAA_awright: well it's not up to just you |
| 23:59.06 | AAA_awright | I realize that |
| 23:59.21 | JeffM | drupal and wikimedia has been the plan for a long time now |
| 23:59.47 | JeffM | unless you have some huge techincal reason why we can't do that other then that's just not the way you roll, I don't see any reason to change the plan |
