| 00:29.50 | *** join/#bzflag iwcylabumf (n=chatzill@user-0cev11b.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:46.25 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-71-253-23-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:03.29 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-0-0-cust307.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:05.31 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-0-0-cust307.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:06.47 | CBG` | 2.0.10 crashed my mac, 10.5 |
| 01:07.05 | whodaman- | CBG`, you actually opened BZFlag? |
| 01:07.25 | CBG | yes |
| 01:07.30 | CBG | wish I hadn't |
| 01:07.32 | CBG | POS. |
| 01:07.33 | me1 | heh |
| 01:07.42 | whodaman- | psh |
| 01:07.44 | whodaman- | that's not nice |
| 01:07.52 | Winny | CBG, well, more info they that is needed |
| 01:07.54 | CBG | neither is crashing my system |
| 01:07.55 | Winny | :P |
| 01:07.59 | CBG | such as? |
| 01:08.13 | CBG | it's not like I can check the log. the machine totally bombed on me |
| 01:08.29 | Winny | heh |
| 01:09.43 | CBG | No devs about? |
| 01:09.58 | me1 | the first step is to see if you can replicate it |
| 01:10.22 | CBG | i don't want to |
| 01:10.38 | whodaman- | CBG, you used the mac binary from SF? |
| 01:10.44 | CBG | yes |
| 01:10.59 | CBG | fresh install, opened it first time. machine restarted 4 seconds later |
| 01:11.38 | whodaman- | CBG, maybe just compile your own client |
| 01:11.38 | Winny | sounds like an overheat |
| 01:11.45 | Winny | or a PSU issue |
| 01:12.00 | CBG | never had the problem before. whatever it is == bz's fault |
| 01:12.15 | Winny | Hard reboots usually are hardware related |
| 01:12.30 | CBG | _something_ caused it. |
| 01:12.37 | CBG | and bz is the only unknown |
| 01:13.23 | Winny | did it just like, instantly turn off? |
| 01:13.28 | Winny | or did it go through the bootdown procedure? |
| 01:13.46 | CBG | right off |
| 01:14.07 | Winny | pokes blast007 |
| 01:14.21 | blast007 | what? |
| 01:14.35 | Winny | If a machine instantly shuts off, usually hardware/heat related, right? |
| 01:14.44 | blast007 | no |
| 01:14.48 | whodaman- | :p |
| 01:14.50 | blast007 | usually someone tripped on the cord |
| 01:14.52 | blast007 | ducks |
| 01:14.55 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:14.55 | whodaman- | LOL |
| 01:14.59 | CBG | it rebooted itself |
| 01:15.04 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 01:15.10 | blast007 | CBG: could have been a BSOD |
| 01:15.27 | blast007 | if it's set for the minidump, you might not even notice it before it reboots the system |
| 01:15.30 | Winny | Usually you'd see the "Mac OS X needs to restart" thing, I'd think |
| 01:15.39 | blast007 | oh wait, a Mac? |
| 01:15.45 | Winny | CBG, check the syslog |
| 01:15.48 | CBG | yes. |
| 01:15.58 | blast007 | oh, if it's a Mac, that's normal |
| 01:16.03 | blast007 | that's a feature |
| 01:16.09 | Winny | Utilities -> Console |
| 01:16.10 | blast007 | it thinks different |
| 01:16.16 | whodaman- | lol |
| 01:16.20 | CBG | my mac has NEVER shutdown or rebooted itself before |
| 01:16.23 | whodaman- | great help :P |
| 01:16.28 | CBG | this is a BZ issue and don't try and hide it |
| 01:16.30 | Winny | blast007: my mac usually gives me the mac-OSX screen of death |
| 01:16.31 | blast007 | CBG: it's a NEW feature! |
| 01:16.46 | CBG | blast007: oh, so you're allowed to be a dick here but nobody else is? |
| 01:16.51 | Winny | heh |
| 01:16.56 | blast007 | apparently |
| 01:17.43 | KingofCamelot | Now now children, lets all be friends, lol |
| 01:17.50 | blast007 | if it rebooted, it could be a software issue too |
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| 01:18.15 | blast007 | when my video card overheated, the machine just locked and the display went blank |
| 01:18.16 | Winny | hmm |
| 01:18.19 | blast007 | didn't reboot |
| 01:18.34 | Winny | CBG: try it again and see if it happens ;) |
| 01:19.01 | blast007 | could be any number of things |
| 01:20.06 | KingofCamelot | Speaking of computer issues, my desktop will no longer boot past the BIOS screen. I'm betting it's the motherboard, but anyone think it could be the CPU? |
| 01:20.20 | L4m3r | ##hardware |
| 01:26.21 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-079-156.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 01:28.32 | CBG | so nobody is even slightly concerned that bz will crash someone's computer for no reason? *sigh* |
| 01:29.18 | whodaman- | CBG, try it again |
| 01:29.54 | CBG | I don't enjoy fucking up my mac, so no. |
| 01:30.23 | whodaman- | this is not ##planetmofo... |
| 01:30.41 | blast007 | CBG: a system crash breaks a Mac? I guess Windows is just used to it, and handles it better... ;) |
| 01:30.41 | CBG | I'd get more help there. |
| 01:30.50 | spldart | Geez |
| 01:31.18 | CBG | I am amazed at the lack of support provided. Do I have to donate to get real help? |
| 01:31.25 | CBG | Because, you know... I have donated, twice. |
| 01:31.31 | blast007 | CBG: we aren't here to fix your computer |
| 01:31.41 | whodaman- | uh, what are we supposed to do? |
| 01:31.45 | whodaman- | Compile a client and see what happens |
| 01:31.46 | Winny | We already told you what we think it might be. We can't really go very far on "BZFlag crashed my computer" |
| 01:31.48 | blast007 | it's not our issue |
| 01:31.50 | Winny | if it was even BZFlag |
| 01:32.03 | Winny | I really think it's probably heat or hardware related. |
| 01:32.07 | blast007 | we can't write a patch to make your video card fan run faster :P |
| 01:32.12 | Winny | try setting a FPS limit in the conf |
| 01:32.18 | Winny | see if it still happens |
| 01:32.18 | whodaman- | 30 will do |
| 01:32.29 | blast007 | and sorry, but our code to remove the dust from your fans doesn't quite work yet |
| 01:32.43 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:32.58 | Winny | CBG: go buy a can of dust-off and blow out the insides |
| 01:33.15 | CBG | My mac can cope with things a lot more demanind, don't insult me by suggesting my hardware is not capable of running this crappy game. |
| 01:33.36 | CBG | blast007: it is your issue if YOUR software crashes computers. |
| 01:33.52 | AHA | we dont know if bz crashed your machine |
| 01:34.00 | CBG | nothing else did it. |
| 01:34.13 | Winny | Stop being so freaking stubborn and buy a can of dustoff |
| 01:34.14 | AHA | try to start bz again, and if it does the same thing, we know what the problem is |
| 01:34.23 | CBG | it's never happened before. I open bz for the first time and instantly the machine breaks. |
| 01:34.42 | CBG | YOu want me to crash my machine again on purpose? |
| 01:34.44 | CBG | ffs |
| 01:34.46 | whodaman- | I didn't break |
| 01:34.47 | spldart | Build a debug and see if you can track it down? |
| 01:35.02 | blast007 | CBG: our software didn't |
| 01:35.11 | spldart | Or post a log so someone else might be able to help? |
| 01:35.17 | blast007 | CBG: your computer sucks. Fix it. |
| 01:35.48 | CBG | Ok, sure, I'll save a log while my machine crashes. |
| 01:35.50 | CBG | blast007: bullshit. you said youself it might not have been hardware |
| 01:35.52 | CBG | even if it was, the machine crashed RIGHT when I opened bz. |
| 01:35.56 | CBG | coincidence? right... |
| 01:36.09 | blast007 | CBG: right. Could be software too. |
| 01:36.18 | spldart | ummm... a build log.. N/M.. You just want to be disruptive |
| 01:36.20 | blast007 | Software, such as, OSX, or drivers, etc |
| 01:36.41 | Winny | CBG: BZFlag puts a higher system load on |
| 01:36.43 | Winny | things heat up |
| 01:36.54 | blast007 | could even just be a flaky video driver |
| 01:36.58 | blast007 | try it again |
| 01:36.59 | CBG | My. Machine. Never. Crashed. Before. |
| 01:37.04 | blast007 | CBG: so? |
| 01:37.20 | blast007 | I don't understand why you think it CAN'T crash |
| 01:37.27 | CBG | So a lot of what most of you are saying is irrelevant. |
| 01:37.29 | blast007 | Have you run BZFlag before? |
| 01:37.37 | CBG | Yes. But not 2.0.10 |
| 01:37.44 | blast007 | run it again |
| 01:38.18 | Winny | look in the Console |
| 01:38.20 | Winny | it shows errors |
| 01:40.37 | blast007 | CBG: did it work? |
| 01:44.32 | CBG | don't see anyting before crash in the console |
| 01:44.55 | blast007 | try running 2.0.10 again |
| 01:47.31 | blast007 | heh |
| 01:47.43 | Winny | rofl |
| 01:47.51 | Winny | takes an overheat bet |
| 01:47.54 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-71-253-23-142.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:48.02 | Winny | I should blow my comp out soon |
| 01:48.09 | Winny | been a few months |
| 01:48.42 | whodaman- | rofl |
| 01:48.43 | whodaman- | hahahaha |
| 01:49.06 | whodaman- | okay, what do we bet the first word he'll say on return will be "F..." |
| 01:49.19 | Winny | 5$ |
| 01:49.29 | JeffM2501 | there have been some reported crashes with the 'tosh |
| 01:49.41 | blast007 | JeffM2501: system reboots? or just app crashes? :P |
| 01:49.47 | Winny | JeffM2501: crashing thw whole machine is highly unlikely |
| 01:49.48 | JeffM2501 | app crash |
| 01:49.51 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 01:49.54 | JeffM2501 | but then it is a mac |
| 01:49.57 | JeffM2501 | so that just happens ;) |
| 01:49.59 | Winny | stabs JeffM2501 |
| 01:50.01 | spldart | snap |
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| 01:50.32 | Winny | wb |
| 01:50.32 | whodaman- | Welcome CBG |
| 01:50.41 | blast007 | CBG: did it do it again? |
| 01:50.45 | JeffM2501 | if it's killing the machine, then it's drivers |
| 01:50.54 | blast007 | run a different game |
| 01:51.05 | Winny | You'd figure it would display the standard Max OSX SOD thing |
| 01:51.26 | JeffM2501 | not if it was the display driver that horked ;) |
| 01:51.35 | Winny | true |
| 01:51.39 | CBG | oh surprise surprise |
| 01:51.41 | CBG | happy now? |
| 01:51.43 | CBG | no, I yanked the plug out of my machine |
| 01:51.45 | CBG | it was funny as hell |
| 01:51.46 | L4m3r | you lose either way, really |
| 01:51.47 | CBG | bet i had you all going |
| 01:51.49 | CBG | ha ha ha |
| 01:51.56 | blast007 | CBG: you sure did! |
| 01:52.03 | blast007 | run a different game |
| 01:52.03 | CBG | oh look. WoW's not crashing my machine! |
| 01:52.03 | Winny | pastes something from a PM |
| 01:52.05 | L4m3r | either it's a driver crash, or your OS is too crappy to deal with an app crashing |
| 01:52.26 | L4m3r | ...something even Windows can do with a fair probability of success |
| 01:52.50 | blast007 | L4m3r: but like I said, Windows is used to it ;) |
| 01:52.54 | Winny | I've never had OS X crash on me (nor windows) |
| 01:53.00 | blast007 | designed with crashing in mind |
| 01:53.11 | Winny | the closest I've come to a crash is killing Compiz on Ubuntu :p |
| 03:03.49 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 03:03.49 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/#bzflag || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || 2.0.10 is the latest public release || BZFlag is in GSoC 2008 , join #gsoc if you're interested in participating (students) mentor blog -> http://tanks4code.blogspot.com/ |
| 03:03.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
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| 03:14.30 | Winny | ~blast007++ |
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| 05:04.34 | BulletCatcher | On the AC_INIT line of configure.ac, should the version number be 2.99.00 rather than 2.1.14 ? |
| 05:05.34 | blast007 | probably something like that |
| 05:07.37 | JeffM2501 | still has an old one? |
| 05:07.55 | BulletCatcher | it currently says 2.1.14 |
| 05:08.25 | blast007 | JeffM2501: the DR on the server behaves funky |
| 05:08.46 | JeffM2501 | as in? |
| 05:09.07 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16785 10/trunk/bzflag/configure.ac: 2.99.x |
| 05:09.13 | blast007 | the delta is being calculated to high values |
| 05:09.23 | blast007 | which messes up the currentPos values |
| 05:09.46 | blast007 | trying to determine why exactly |
| 05:09.59 | blast007 | void GameKeeper::Player::doPlayerDR ( float time ) <-- in there |
| 05:10.24 | blast007 | there are times that the currentPos[2] equals 0, even when I'm nowhere near the ground on the client |
| 05:10.43 | JeffM2501 | hmmm |
| 05:10.43 | blast007 | which causes my tank to blow up due to the waterLevel on the server I'm trying |
| 05:10.59 | blast007 | we shouldn't have a delta os 30 or 40 there, should wel? |
| 05:11.01 | blast007 | of* |
| 05:11.18 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 05:11.30 | JeffM2501 | it's seconds |
| 05:12.03 | JeffM2501 | I think I know the problem |
| 05:12.13 | JeffM2501 | the stateTimeStamp is in server seconds |
| 05:12.58 | JeffM2501 | the input time is not |
| 05:14.40 | JeffM2501 | oh this is server |
| 05:14.43 | JeffM2501 | it's all server time |
| 05:14.58 | blast007 | maybe |
| 05:15.02 | JeffM2501 | is the timestamp not being updated |
| 05:15.25 | blast007 | we're unpacking a timestamp in PlayerUpdateHandler |
| 05:15.38 | blast007 | and then passing that to updatePlayerState |
| 05:16.00 | blast007 | which then passes that to playerData->setPlayerState(state, timeStamp); |
| 05:16.18 | blast007 | and that sents the stateTimeStamp |
| 05:16.30 | blast007 | should we be using the server time there too? |
| 05:17.21 | JeffM2501 | well the time passed in from the client is server time |
| 05:17.53 | blast007 | k |
| 05:22.54 | blast007 | the delta is jumping from 0 to around 32 :/ |
| 05:23.31 | blast007 | heh, and now I got a -2.83 delta.. |
| 05:24.17 | JeffM2501 | then it's the synced clock that is bad |
| 05:24.36 | JeffM2501 | should check the time that comes thru with each update and see how far off it is |
| 05:26.46 | blast007 | also, the water level death check was using the X value instead of the Z value ;) |
| 05:27.14 | JeffM2501 | hah |
| 05:27.30 | blast007 | I have that fixed here, but the delta is still making me blow up incorrectly |
| 05:27.48 | blast007 | like I'm at 350 units in the air, with a water level at 0.2, and I'm exploding |
| 05:28.14 | blast007 | and my height is being reported as 0 when it does, and then up to 1600 during the explode arc |
| 05:36.28 | *** join/#bzflag Skater (n=gabe@cpe-069-134-227-087.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 05:36.42 | Skater | Hey everyone! |
| 05:37.34 | Skater | Does anyone know if I install drivers in a virtual windows machine will it affect the real Operating System? |
| 05:39.11 | Skater | No one? |
| 05:40.08 | BulletCatcher | The point of a virtual machine is that it shouldn't affect the host. But I don't know for sure in your case. |
| 05:41.16 | blast007 | Skater: and what drivers would you be installing? |
| 05:45.43 | Skater | Video |
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| 06:39.38 | *** join/#bzflag Erickj92 (n=erickj92@204.73.103.253) |
| 06:39.41 | Erickj92 | ello |
| 06:40.00 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 06:40.00 | Erickj92 | does anyone have any tips on not getting killed? |
| 06:40.17 | whodaman | Erickj92, use radar |
| 06:40.52 | Erickj92 | ok |
| 06:40.52 | a_temp_dist | don't jump much - change your level when you are forced to |
| 06:40.52 | whodaman | practice dodging and jumping on pillbox and hix server |
| 06:40.52 | Erickj92 | what is the best setting for the radar? |
| 06:41.16 | whodaman | Erickj92, the default BZFlag settings (on keys 1 2 3) are quite good |
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| 06:41.37 | whodaman | use 1 while 1 on 1 fights and use 3 for a good overview of what's happening |
| 06:41.44 | Erickj92 | ok |
| 06:41.56 | Erickj92 | what are some good keys to always keep my fingers on? |
| 06:42.16 | whodaman | Erickj92, I'd advise to switch to mouse as soon as possible |
| 06:42.16 | a_temp_dist | you are playing with keyboard or mouse? |
| 06:42.23 | whodaman | You'll be way better off in the long run |
| 06:42.34 | Erickj92 | i see |
| 06:42.44 | Erickj92 | what is the address of a server i can practice on? |
| 06:42.53 | whodaman | bzf.bzflag.org:5154 |
| 06:42.58 | whodaman | Nice hix server |
| 06:43.03 | whodaman | and port 5155 |
| 06:43.12 | whodaman | dub.bzflag.org:5150 |
| 06:43.19 | whodaman | You should keep an eye out for those |
| 06:43.28 | whodaman | Your a registered player, right? |
| 06:43.41 | Erickj92 | uhhh i think |
| 06:43.49 | Erickj92 | not sure |
| 06:44.01 | whodaman | Erickj92, dub.bzflag.org currently only allows registered users.. |
| 06:44.12 | Erickj92 | how do i register? |
| 06:44.55 | whodaman | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/profile.php?mode=register&sid=8b0a163c9604acca39f3c514d4e1331b |
| 06:44.59 | whodaman | check out that link. |
| 06:45.23 | Erickj92 | ok |
| 06:47.13 | whodaman | and then use your name/password as Callsign/password when you play |
| 06:48.25 | Erickj92 | ok |
| 06:48.26 | Erickj92 | thank you |
| 06:48.34 | Erickj92 | one last thing |
| 06:48.39 | Erickj92 | how do i aim down? |
| 06:49.05 | a_temp_dist | can't generally do that |
| 06:49.11 | Erickj92 | oh, ok |
| 06:49.13 | Erickj92 | thank you |
| 06:49.27 | a_temp_dist | you can use Guided Missile to shoot at tanks lower than you |
| 06:49.33 | whodaman | ew flags |
| 06:49.49 | whodaman | You must you the Lock On key for that though |
| 06:49.57 | a_temp_dist | or some servers have an option turned on called "shots keep vertical velocity"... |
| 06:50.16 | a_temp_dist | and then you can shoot at different levels with a trick jump |
| 06:51.13 | whodaman | ah, right |
| 06:51.24 | whodaman | Although not too many servers use that variable these days |
| 06:51.48 | a_temp_dist | thankfully - it really changes the dynamics |
| 06:53.45 | whodaman | true |
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| 07:36.00 | KingofCamelot | Anyone happen to know how to force an Ipod to turn off? :/ |
| 07:36.19 | whodaman | KingofCamelot, I know how to reboot it |
| 07:37.00 | KingofCamelot | That could work. :) Mine appears to be frozen.. |
| 07:39.09 | KingofCamelot | Figured it out...menu plus middle button, heh. |
| 07:39.21 | whodaman | yep |
| 07:39.31 | whodaman | was just gonna say :P |
| 07:39.45 | KingofCamelot | Theres only so many button combos to try :P |
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| 10:06.30 | KingofCamelot | Any BZFlag Devs up? :P |
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| 10:25.04 | Pimpi_ | KingofCamelot: whats your problem? |
| 10:25.29 | Pimpi_ | just describe and probably somebody will read and answer |
| 10:54.40 | Manu | hallo Pimpi_ :) |
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| 14:34.16 | Winny | brlcad: You around? |
| 14:34.32 | brlcad | maybe |
| 14:40.17 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=lukstr@131.104.11.250) |
| 14:40.36 | Lukstr | hello all |
| 14:42.33 | brlcad | howdy Lukstr |
| 14:42.46 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 14:43.27 | Lukstr | howdy brlcad. |
| 14:43.34 | Lukstr | I suppose jude not be around. hmph |
| 14:44.14 | Lukstr | I'm getting a segfault running bzworkbench |
| 14:44.27 | Winny | blames jude- |
| 14:45.19 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kemhof@75.144.224.155) |
| 14:46.39 | Lukstr | and I don't have time to start debugging it right now (eating breakfast on campus :P) |
| 14:49.16 | Lukstr | so who is mentoring? |
| 14:49.50 | brlcad | http://tanks4code.blogspot.com/ right panel |
| 14:50.17 | Lukstr | thanks |
| 14:50.30 | *** part/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kemhof@75.144.224.155) |
| 14:50.54 | Lukstr | (I'm so slow in the mornings... damn coffee isn't strong enough, I should start snorting pure caffeine) |
| 14:51.24 | Winny | hehe |
| 14:51.59 | Lukstr | which, fyi, is incredibly toxic :P |
| 14:52.22 | brlcad | Lukstr: caffeine soap is nice |
| 14:52.35 | Lukstr | hah |
| 14:52.42 | Lukstr | I'll have to order some |
| 14:53.36 | Lukstr | should I bother writing a draft application now, or just straight up submit it and then make corrections/updates there? |
| 14:54.09 | Epyon | Lukstr, what are you going for? |
| 14:54.35 | brlcad | Lukstr: either works |
| 14:55.12 | Lukstr | Modularization of code shared between BZWB and BZFlag, I think |
| 14:55.19 | brlcad | having it be public might set the bar a little higher for others |
| 14:55.28 | Epyon | Lukstr, interesting! |
| 14:55.38 | Lukstr | the draft was going to go on the wiki |
| 14:55.50 | Lukstr | maybe I'll just duplicate it on the wiki as well |
| 14:55.52 | Epyon | I'd be more then happy to see it :) |
| 14:56.12 | Lukstr | I just got back from a weekend away so I'll have to play catch up today |
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| 15:05.20 | Lukstr | well laptop battery doesn't like me today, be back this afternoon all |
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| 15:35.57 | Lukstr | is back |
| 15:36.05 | Winny | is front |
| 15:36.22 | Lukstr | you really have to stop :P |
| 15:36.27 | Lukstr | is Winny |
| 15:36.33 | Winny | :O |
| 15:40.30 | spldart | IB RR |
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| 15:58.17 | Epyon | is Lukstr |
| 15:59.05 | Lukstr | damn! |
| 16:01.45 | Winny | hehe |
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| 16:22.28 | Lukstr | mentors: ping? |
| 16:22.53 | donny_baker | Lukstr: pong |
| 16:23.21 | Lukstr | tell me what you think so far, http://my.bzflag.org/w/User:Lukstr |
| 16:26.19 | donny_baker | sounds like a great idea |
| 16:26.36 | Lukstr | :) |
| 16:26.51 | donny_baker | timeline needs some work :P |
| 16:26.57 | Lukstr | haha for sure, |
| 16:27.03 | Lukstr | I still have to figure out what my milestones will be |
| 16:27.16 | Lukstr | and dig through more code to make sure they are not unrealistice |
| 16:27.23 | brlcad | needs more meat too, more specifics |
| 16:27.31 | Lukstr | s/.$// |
| 16:27.46 | Lukstr | brlcad, I've just typed the summary up, the rest is coming shortly :P |
| 16:28.00 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 16:28.05 | brlcad | also for you or others, you don't have to include all the details about yourself if you don't want -- you can keep that private for the submission itself |
| 16:28.23 | brlcad | (but should be at least included with the submission) |
| 16:28.42 | Lukstr | right, well I have no problems with it being public for now |
| 16:28.55 | Winny | waves to JeffM |
| 16:30.10 | JeffM | oww |
| 16:30.39 | Winny | Would you not prefer a wave? :p |
| 16:31.14 | Lukstr | puts Winny in a vacuum |
| 16:31.18 | Winny | \o/ |
| 16:31.29 | Lukstr | no waves for you |
| 16:31.34 | JeffM | we can be heroes.. just for one day... |
| 16:33.05 | blast007 | yo JeffM :) |
| 16:33.12 | JeffM | blast007, word up |
| 16:33.17 | JeffM | brlcad, do they start today? |
| 16:33.21 | blast007 | the client's "server time" gets more and more off as time goes on |
| 16:33.33 | blast007 | seems to normally get to 30 seconds or so off, and then reset |
| 16:33.35 | JeffM | blast007, then the clock sync isn't write |
| 16:33.41 | JeffM | righnt |
| 16:33.48 | JeffM | thinks today is not a good day to be hungover |
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| 16:34.27 | JeffM | we can log out the "whattimeisit"messages and see how far off we are |
| 16:34.40 | JeffM | perhaps it's not doing the lag comp properly |
| 16:34.51 | blast007 | why do we want to trust the client's timestamp message? |
| 16:35.07 | JeffM | cus we have to |
| 16:35.24 | blast007 | I'm not |
| 16:35.38 | JeffM | then the inital postion is off by a lag time |
| 16:35.38 | blast007 | I just overrid it to the server's time inside the GameKeeper |
| 16:35.46 | blast007 | hmm |
| 16:35.59 | JeffM | we have to do one of 2 things |
| 16:36.02 | blast007 | guess that wouldn't be noticable when playing on the same machine then ;) nvm |
| 16:36.04 | JeffM | 1) have them stamp it |
| 16:36.11 | JeffM | or 2) add in a lag time |
| 16:36.18 | JeffM | but adding in a lag time has problem |
| 16:36.24 | JeffM | cus the updates may come out of order |
| 16:36.41 | JeffM | and the actual transmit time may not be the same as the lag time |
| 16:37.00 | JeffM | yet with the stamp, even if you have a lag spike, the clocks on both systems still run very close to the same rate |
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| 16:37.13 | JeffM | so if there is a lag spike, the timestamp will just be further in the past |
| 16:38.46 | JeffM | I'm gussing it's just the clock message that is wrong |
| 16:40.25 | JeffM | that is unless you want to go and start up a discussion of various lag compensation methods that we could implmenent. I'm open to that, I was just going for the one that was simplest for us. |
| 16:41.18 | blast007 | heh, I don't have any idea about any of that ;) I just don't want to keep blowing up from the water when I'm still 350 units away from it ;) |
| 16:41.27 | JeffM | yeah we have to fix it |
| 16:42.14 | JeffM | tho for the water I want to change it to be like the flags, we send updates when we hit the water level, and then the server goes and just uses update postions, not interpolatd postions |
| 16:42.16 | brlcad | JeffM: yes, they do .. in about 2.5 hours |
| 16:42.29 | JeffM | brlcad, realy bad day to be hung over then ;) |
| 16:42.42 | blast007 | JeffM: what I'm wanting to do is tie the water level to a BZDB variable, so that plugins could adjust the water level |
| 16:42.50 | JeffM | blast007, ahh |
| 16:42.58 | JeffM | well for now you can put the death back on the client |
| 16:43.01 | JeffM | and take it out of the server |
| 16:43.07 | JeffM | and just do that |
| 16:43.21 | blast007 | well, I got the death to work "right", at least in a no-lag situation |
| 16:43.45 | blast007 | now that I at least know where the issue is, I might be able to fix the client's synced time |
| 16:43.46 | JeffM | well then you can do my simple fix |
| 16:44.03 | JeffM | on the client check if you've gone below water level, if so send out an update |
| 16:44.18 | JeffM | then on the server when we get updates, check for deaths using the reported z |
| 16:44.19 | JeffM | that's it |
| 16:44.24 | JeffM | that will be lag independent |
| 16:44.30 | JeffM | and work just like the flags do |
| 16:44.55 | blast007 | so instead of currentPos (which is lag comped) use the lastState info? |
| 16:45.00 | JeffM | yeah |
| 16:45.04 | blast007 | k |
| 16:45.07 | JeffM | that is the real reported state |
| 16:45.17 | brlcad | JeffM: nah, they can sweat it out a few days :) |
| 16:45.22 | brlcad | there will still be a rush at the end I fear |
| 16:45.24 | blast007 | I'd almost rather just fix the currentPos values ;) |
| 16:45.38 | JeffM | but to make it happen fast, you need to force at least one update from the client when you go under |
| 16:45.42 | JeffM | blast007, well we have to do that too |
| 16:45.59 | JeffM | but even at a best case, that pos will have a little fudge in it now |
| 16:46.16 | JeffM | so it may not be best to use untill we are sure how well it will work |
| 16:46.33 | blast007 | true |
| 16:46.54 | blast007 | I suppose, for instance, if a tank is falling onto a platform that is a little above the water, they will explode from the water |
| 16:47.12 | JeffM | exactly |
| 16:47.23 | blast007 | the "lag comp" doesn't take into account obstacles, correct? |
| 16:47.25 | JeffM | stuff that is THAT postion senstive, drivers, water, flags, may need |
| 16:47.30 | JeffM | not at this time |
| 16:47.35 | blast007 | okay |
| 16:47.44 | blast007 | so yeah, almost might as well go with the lastState for now then |
| 16:47.46 | JeffM | we can make our DR do that, and when we do w can do more on the server |
| 16:47.48 | JeffM | yeah |
| 16:47.49 | blast007 | I'll play around with that later |
| 16:48.00 | JeffM | but yes we need to fix the update stuff too |
| 16:48.44 | blast007 | can we set up callbacks on certain variables for when they change? |
| 16:48.58 | JeffM | yeah that's how cache works |
| 16:49.02 | blast007 | like, for a _waterLevel, it'll need to tell the flag code to check for ones under the water ;) |
| 16:49.20 | JeffM | any var can have a callback |
| 16:49.23 | blast007 | k |
| 16:49.25 | JeffM | or I belive N callbacks |
| 16:49.56 | JeffM | take a look at the cache class, that's what it does. installs callbacks for each var it does, and then makes copies in it's class when they change |
| 16:50.08 | blast007 | k |
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| 16:53.29 | JeffM | word up Saturos |
| 16:53.42 | Saturos | hmm, JeffM? |
| 16:53.45 | JeffM | hi |
| 16:53.47 | JeffM | ;) |
| 16:53.51 | Saturos | heya |
| 16:54.16 | Saturos | sry, I was rather busy.. didnt work on the fontlist yet+ |
| 16:54.25 | brlcad | howdy Saturos |
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| 16:55.29 | JeffM | blast007, I'll put the match system on hold and look at the update stuff as well |
| 16:55.36 | blast007 | k |
| 16:55.50 | JeffM | and if ANYONE else wants to work on the match system please feel free, it's all speced :) |
| 16:56.26 | JeffM | and it's basicly writen like a plugin |
| 16:56.34 | JeffM | but in BZs code |
| 16:57.20 | brlcad | enfeeds |
| 16:59.55 | Lukstr | which libcurl does bzflag require? |
| 17:00.02 | JeffM | there is more then one? |
| 17:00.43 | JeffM | what version do you have? |
| 17:00.45 | Lukstr | is it just the stock library? |
| 17:00.53 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:01.04 | JeffM | we don't mod it or anything |
| 17:01.35 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 17:01.48 | Lukstr | I figured as much |
| 17:01.59 | Lukstr | I installed the libcurl3 package |
| 17:02.19 | JeffM | you need the dev one |
| 17:02.35 | JeffM | to compile you always need the dev package |
| 17:02.38 | JeffM | cus that includes headers |
| 17:02.59 | Lukstr | right |
| 17:03.42 | Lukstr | libcurl4-openssl-dev sound decent? |
| 17:03.46 | JeffM | sure |
| 17:03.53 | JeffM | we won't use the SSL stuff but it dosn't hurt |
| 17:04.59 | Lukstr | There was no plain old libcurl-dev option in apt so |
| 17:05.00 | Lukstr | :s |
| 17:05.11 | JeffM | shuld be fine |
| 17:05.31 | JeffM | I guess we could use the SSL, IF someone had textures or a map URL using https |
| 17:05.36 | JeffM | but I dont' think anyone does |
| 17:05.40 | Lukstr | meh |
| 17:05.50 | Lukstr | it's building now so I'm happy |
| 17:06.04 | JeffM | cool |
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| 17:29.00 | Skater | Hello everyone! |
| 17:29.19 | JeffM | hi |
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| 17:55.46 | JeffM | I've become so numb, I can feel you there. I've become so tired, so much more aware. I'm becoming less.. all I want to do is be more lilke me.. and less like you.... |
| 17:56.08 | Winny | Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and dessert you! |
| 17:56.09 | Winny | :o |
| 17:56.23 | JeffM | you are far to predictable |
| 17:56.26 | JeffM | get some depth ;) |
| 17:56.36 | Winny | hehe |
| 17:56.42 | JeffM | surely canada has more music then that |
| 17:57.18 | Winny | oh most certainly |
| 17:57.42 | JeffM | plays the compiling song |
| 17:59.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 18:00.43 | Erroneous | explains to Winny the difference between desert (n), desert (v), and dessert (n) |
| 18:01.02 | Winny | explains to Erroneous he isn't awake yet |
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| 18:07.02 | JeffM | hmmm. I wonder if there would be a leagal way to play the iron chef theme song during the pregame before a new match :) |
| 18:07.20 | Epyon | streaming? :P |
| 18:07.39 | JeffM | still techincaly not legal |
| 18:07.56 | Epyon | guess so |
| 18:08.23 | JeffM | need somone to write a similar but new bit of music :) |
| 18:09.03 | spldart | wonders if original Mario Brothers music is public domain yet |
| 18:09.06 | spldart | hehehe |
| 18:09.20 | JeffM | that does not speak of honor and grace |
| 18:10.28 | JeffM | rematches should play the kill bill song |
| 18:11.00 | JeffM | Saturos, find anything on the font front? |
| 18:11.50 | spldart | Perhaps we could fit in a little Also Sprach Zarathustra |
| 18:11.58 | Epyon | Actually, there was never an idea to add music to BZF? |
| 18:12.09 | Epyon | spldart, during sunrise? :P |
| 18:12.16 | spldart | :) |
| 18:12.25 | JeffM | Epyon, sure, it's just not logisticly feasable |
| 18:12.29 | Epyon | Add in a pureblack box in the middle too :P |
| 18:12.29 | JeffM | and many would just turn it off |
| 18:12.43 | JeffM | sound engine dosn't support it, and we don't have any LGPL music |
| 18:12.59 | Epyon | JeffM, basically - bad idea :P |
| 18:13.10 | JeffM | I don't think I'd want to do a background soundtrack or anything, but music cues for specific events could be fun |
| 18:13.10 | Epyon | I listen to my own music while playing ANY game anyway :P |
| 18:13.16 | JeffM | such as pregame and postgame music |
| 18:13.26 | JeffM | streaming could be fun too |
| 18:13.28 | Epyon | Like "TaDaaaa!" when flag is caugh? |
| 18:13.37 | JeffM | where you listen to the music from the server owner |
| 18:13.50 | Epyon | Or a A-team-like rumble while loading the map? :P |
| 18:13.50 | JeffM | like music when a match ends |
| 18:13.54 | JeffM | heh |
| 18:14.04 | JeffM | dynamic music could be good |
| 18:14.12 | JeffM | like when a team starts a comback, etc.. |
| 18:14.29 | Epyon | JeffM, I know how to do that with DirectX, however I have no clue how to do without it :P |
| 18:14.56 | JeffM | you'd write your own ;) |
| 18:15.27 | spldart | streaming music cues and midi's are the only thing practical for the most part.. a stream eats bandwidth increasing lag |
| 18:15.29 | spldart | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:15.47 | spldart | actually not streaming music cues |
| 18:16.02 | spldart | but a dowload cache file like textures ns tuff |
| 18:16.22 | Epyon | JeffM, no thanks :P |
| 18:16.33 | JeffM | spldart, bandwith != lag |
| 18:16.38 | Epyon | I'm a high level programming guy... usualy :P |
| 18:16.45 | JeffM | I know |
| 18:17.25 | JeffM | spldart, the ammount of data you can send in a second does not say anything about the transit time to the destition |
| 18:17.40 | JeffM | the only time it comes into play is when the pipe is flooded |
| 18:17.45 | spldart | A plugin? that can interpret a file called by the map during event? |
| 18:17.56 | spldart | hrm |
| 18:17.57 | JeffM | huh? |
| 18:18.05 | spldart | Just thinking silliness |
| 18:18.14 | JeffM | maps can not "call files" |
| 18:18.15 | spldart | sound file |
| 18:18.25 | spldart | oh... |
| 18:18.27 | JeffM | well you could add custom map objects |
| 18:18.31 | JeffM | that had URLS |
| 18:18.42 | JeffM | then send resource requests to the clients to hav them download them |
| 18:18.45 | JeffM | and then play them |
| 18:18.54 | JeffM | but I think the paths needs a little work |
| 18:19.05 | JeffM | need to add a soundcache to the config dir |
| 18:19.12 | spldart | just like the .png's we paint on our meshes |
| 18:19.15 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:19.16 | spldart | but instead .wav's |
| 18:19.21 | JeffM | indeeed |
| 18:19.46 | spldart | can a plugin be made to call the .wav during specified 'event' 's |
| 18:19.50 | JeffM | sure |
| 18:19.58 | JeffM | there is a sound command |
| 18:19.58 | spldart | That might be a cool |
| 18:20.20 | spldart | s/ /a |
| 18:20.22 | spldart | lol |
| 18:20.29 | JeffM | that's how the match system is going to play the airhorn ;) |
| 18:20.40 | spldart | Oh! ok |
| 18:20.47 | JeffM | could make it shout GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!! too |
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| 18:27.57 | spldart | About your retort to my lag comment.. I was assuming the stream was coming off of the same server that the game was on.. Having the same effect of increasing their output bandwidth bringing them to flood sooner. Is this not true under that condition? |
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| 18:38.25 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16786 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/AutoPilot.cxx: fix flag handling in the rogue-in-ctf case (and a couple other bugfixes) |
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| 18:53.58 | catay | how will the match durations be restricted with the match system ? |
| 18:54.36 | catay | some leagues only allow certain match durations (15/20/30min) |
| 18:54.46 | catay | or should that be done by a plugin ? |
| 18:55.30 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16787 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx: ws |
| 18:56.33 | Erroneous | catay: same way it is now, you specify the time. if you want to restrict it we can certainly add an API hook for it. |
| 18:57.19 | Erroneous | the time goes in the report anyhow |
| 18:57.20 | catay | would be cool, now there is a timelimit plugin that takes care of the restriction |
| 18:59.05 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-167-164.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:59.43 | jftsang | you can make one-way walls relatively easily, but can you make one-way arcs, spheres and cones that easily? |
| 19:00.09 | jftsang | or would you have to draw the object in question manually and then apply one-way ness to the faces? |
| 19:08.02 | Saturos_ | heh, zarathruska |
| 19:08.13 | Saturos_ | we did that once.. hix with a black monolith in center |
| 19:08.21 | Saturos_ | then slowly hit "-" to rise the sun |
| 19:08.52 | Saturos_ | no, JeffM, I was too busy to compose a font list yet.. but I didnt forget it |
| 19:11.14 | Saturos_ | ok, tv time now |
| 19:11.15 | Saturos_ | bbl |
| 19:12.41 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16788 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (5 files): cliping->clipping globally |
| 19:12.54 | donny_baker | anyone object to me shortening the "Chat Room" button on the foeums to just "Chat"? |
| 19:13.03 | Erroneous | no objection here |
| 19:13.06 | donny_baker | the current menu bar is 800px wide |
| 19:13.19 | donny_baker | and I want to add the wiki button |
| 19:13.54 | Erroneous | it's too wide as it is then. should try to keep it under 775 or so |
| 19:15.02 | *** join/#bzflag Skater (n=gabe@cpe-069-134-227-087.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 19:15.05 | Erroneous | supports the wiki button though :) |
| 19:15.13 | Skater | I have a question |
| 19:15.31 | donny_baker | many can be reworded.. and as easy to make one as all |
| 19:16.19 | donny_baker | "Memberlist" to "Members", Usergroups to Groups |
| 19:16.31 | Skater | I needed to transfer a file with a friend over linux so in Terminal I did sudo apt-get install ftpd |
| 19:16.46 | donny_baker | k |
| 19:16.49 | Skater | Then sudo adduser <name> |
| 19:17.06 | Skater | Then he wanted to use SSH... |
| 19:17.15 | donny_baker | probably easier to use openssh-server |
| 19:17.17 | Skater | So I wanted to delete his username fro /home/ |
| 19:17.26 | Skater | I type |
| 19:17.40 | Skater | sudo userdel <name> |
| 19:17.58 | AHA | ##linux might be more helpful |
| 19:18.06 | donny_baker | ~AHA++ |
| 19:18.15 | Skater | And it gives me the error: user <name> does not exist |
| 19:18.16 | AHA | :) |
| 19:18.22 | Skater | :D |
| 19:18.31 | Skater | Alright, to ##linux |
| 19:19.21 | Skater | AHA is in ##linux :) |
| 19:19.29 | AHA | :) |
| 19:22.28 | JeffM | catay, Erroneous , there is also a default time in a bzdb var |
| 19:22.33 | JeffM | I added all the vars to the spec |
| 19:22.40 | JeffM | Saturos_, ahh |
| 19:23.31 | JeffM | donny_baker, go for it |
| 19:23.47 | donny_baker | will do |
| 19:24.09 | donny_baker | wife is gone for the next 2 days so I'll have more "free" time :P |
| 19:24.21 | Skater | :o |
| 19:25.03 | JeffM | cool |
| 19:25.32 | JeffM | does that mean I"ve had 13 years of "free" time? |
| 19:26.33 | donny_baker | I guess I mean, i have 2 days where my priorities mean something :P |
| 19:27.17 | Winny | hehe |
| 19:27.46 | catay | JeffM: I didn't probably explain mysefl well enough :) |
| 19:27.59 | JeffM | heh |
| 19:28.00 | catay | at the duc league we allow different match durations |
| 19:28.05 | JeffM | yes I know |
| 19:28.12 | JeffM | so you can do /match start 15 |
| 19:28.19 | JeffM | or /match start 30 |
| 19:28.22 | JeffM | or whatever |
| 19:28.39 | JeffM | the durration is overidable |
| 19:28.40 | catay | yes, but also /match start 25, which is not allowed |
| 19:28.48 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:28.59 | *** join/#bzflag noyb_ (n=noyb@206.61.135.161) |
| 19:29.02 | catay | now we have a timelimit plugin that allows to change the time in game , but also restricts it |
| 19:29.04 | JeffM | then yeah you guys would write a ducatii plugin |
| 19:29.21 | JeffM | yeah you would mod that plugin to use the new system |
| 19:29.23 | JeffM | that is all |
| 19:29.42 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@musictech.MUSC.CWRU.Edu) |
| 19:29.52 | Skater | Hey Ted |
| 19:29.53 | JeffM | the new system can bue used just like the old one |
| 19:30.30 | catay | why not adding it directly into the new match system ? |
| 19:30.42 | Tedius | hi Skater |
| 19:30.44 | JeffM | cus that makes it more compicated |
| 19:30.48 | JeffM | and not everyone does it that way |
| 19:30.56 | JeffM | I do not want to talor it to one specific league |
| 19:31.04 | JeffM | or even just CTF leagues |
| 19:31.26 | catay | ok. makes sense |
| 19:31.46 | JeffM | I don't mind shiping your time check plug-in with the source tree tho |
| 19:33.36 | catay | i assume the new match system will only be implemented for 3.0 ? |
| 19:33.41 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:33.48 | JeffM | 2.0.x is dead |
| 19:35.06 | catay | does it have to be implemented before 3.0 will be released? (the match system that is) ? |
| 19:35.11 | JeffM | naw |
| 19:36.11 | JeffM | I should probalby move it to a plug-in |
| 19:36.14 | JeffM | untill it's ready |
| 19:37.20 | Skater | ##linux says I should have /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow ... |
| 19:37.25 | Skater | No help at all >.< |
| 19:37.45 | donny_baker | well they are the experts ;) |
| 19:37.53 | catay | maybe you are not on linux at all : |
| 19:37.56 | catay | :p |
| 19:37.58 | JeffM | Skater, then use one of the support channels for the distro |
| 19:37.58 | AHA | Skater, what distro? |
| 19:38.10 | Skater | Ubuntu 7.10 gutsy |
| 19:38.13 | AHA | #ubuntu |
| 19:38.20 | JeffM | or check there webpage |
| 19:38.29 | JeffM | I'm sure they have many links to support resources |
| 19:38.32 | Skater | Referring me to ##linux AHA :P |
| 19:38.37 | Skater | I checked JeffM |
| 19:38.38 | catay | JeffM: the goal is to have the match system in the main bz code ? or in plugin form ? |
| 19:38.47 | Skater | The standard user delet is sudo userdel <username> |
| 19:38.51 | Skater | delete* |
| 19:38.57 | JeffM | Skater, he can refer you to wherever he wants to, this is a channel about a game, not linux |
| 19:39.01 | Skater | However it gives the error: No such user.. |
| 19:39.09 | JeffM | catay, main code, but it's writen like a plug-in |
| 19:39.19 | Skater | Meh... |
| 19:39.21 | JeffM | it's basicly a plugin that is always installed |
| 19:39.35 | JeffM | with some extra hooks |
| 19:39.50 | JeffM | so I can get it prototyped as a plug-in then move it inside |
| 19:40.48 | catay | I am willing to give it a try, sounds like an interesting exercise |
| 19:41.03 | JeffM | it'll be a while |
| 19:41.13 | JeffM | seems I need to work on DR first |
| 19:41.23 | JeffM | and then shots |
| 19:41.51 | catay | I mean, trying to code it |
| 19:41.56 | JeffM | oh |
| 19:41.59 | JeffM | go for it then |
| 19:42.05 | JeffM | it's in matchManager.cxx and h |
| 19:42.39 | JeffM | just remember the final goal is to be able to support any game mode as a match, not just CTFs |
| 19:43.37 | catay | ok |
| 19:43.52 | Skater | They're not responding... :( |
| 19:44.01 | JeffM | Skater, that happens some times |
| 19:44.10 | JeffM | you may have to ....wait |
| 19:44.27 | Skater | As you already know, I'm very impatient |
| 19:44.30 | catay | i think i'm gonna try it first in plugin form as thats probably easier for me |
| 19:44.43 | JeffM | Skater, and as you already know, that has nothing to do with us. |
| 19:44.49 | JeffM | catay, ok |
| 19:45.04 | JeffM | it's already using event hooks, it just needs to get a load and unload |
| 19:45.09 | CBG | This channel is for bzflag, your problem has nothing to do with bzflag... shut up already. |
| 19:45.15 | *** part/#bzflag Skater (n=gabe@cpe-069-134-227-087.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 19:45.23 | JeffM | CBG, be nice |
| 19:45.39 | JeffM | while you are correct, there are ways to handle it and not be mean |
| 19:45.55 | JeffM | CBG, you get anymore crashes after that update? |
| 19:46.00 | Erroneous | CBG: thank you for not cussing at him. making progress! :) |
| 19:46.06 | JeffM | heh |
| 19:46.07 | CBG | havent touched bz since then |
| 19:46.13 | CBG | Erroneous: damn right. |
| 19:46.38 | CBG | i only wanted to test a bzw file for a second. that was what was so annoying |
| 19:46.51 | JeffM | fun |
| 19:47.05 | CBG | no, not fun. |
| 19:47.11 | JeffM | sarcasm |
| 19:47.22 | CBG | let me crash your computer repeatedly and see how you feel |
| 19:47.33 | Erroneous | he runs windows, he's used to it |
| 19:47.40 | CBG | ah, true |
| 19:47.46 | JeffM | never realy happens to me like that |
| 19:48.05 | CBG | though I've managed to keep my PC from scewing up in the most part |
| 19:48.13 | JeffM | but someoe is bitter, so don't worry about it |
| 20:00.52 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 20:08.54 | donny_baker | ~brlcad++ |
| 20:13.42 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumTim (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:14.04 | JeffM | now more then ever.. you realise.. and then you sense a change . a love that feels insane, all your dreams are strange, love comes walking... in |
| 20:14.52 | brlcad | what'd I do? |
| 20:15.04 | JeffM | did you deliver that kiss he ordered? |
| 20:15.12 | brlcad | :* |
| 20:15.17 | brlcad | done |
| 20:15.20 | donny_baker | gsoc comment |
| 20:15.32 | JeffM | did you get your ark of truth? |
| 20:15.57 | brlcad | donny_baker: i've sent two dozen e-mails and posted in a dozen places in the past two days .. need more of a hint :) |
| 20:16.04 | brlcad | yes! |
| 20:16.12 | brlcad | i had to go to another city to find it |
| 20:16.14 | JeffM | wow |
| 20:16.16 | brlcad | but watched it last night |
| 20:16.27 | JeffM | if you didn't I was going to askyou if you wanted me to ship you one :) |
| 20:16.36 | JeffM | the replicator part was stupid |
| 20:17.08 | brlcad | yeah, they threw too much implausibility there |
| 20:17.17 | JeffM | it was a pointless story bit |
| 20:17.33 | JeffM | all it did was give sam and cam something to do while everyone else was off beeing interesting. |
| 20:18.15 | JeffM | also HIGHLY recomends, Appleseed Ex Machina |
| 20:20.01 | brlcad | that's been sitting in my dvd tray since thursday |
| 20:20.06 | JeffM | :) |
| 20:20.37 | JeffM | if only ogre could render us like that |
| 20:23.38 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy2 (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 20:35.52 | jftsang | ~seen nn-main |
| 20:35.55 | ibot | nn-main <n=nn@74.94.43.196> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 5d 19h 56m 11s ago, saying: 'Thanks for the help I need to fix that map change that I just started so it Dosen't Crash again ! See you all later'. |
| 20:37.51 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A57031.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:41.35 | jftsang | well, he can spell now, but his grammar is horrid |
| 20:49.09 | *** join/#bzflag AHA (n=aha@unaffiliated/aha) |
| 20:51.25 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 20:55.00 | JeffM | hopes yon shirts ship soon. |
| 20:56.43 | donny_baker | you going to wait till they get there to open the store for orders? |
| 20:57.03 | JeffM | I will probalby open the store when I get a tracking number |
| 20:57.28 | JeffM | just in case |
| 20:58.04 | JeffM | they techincaly don't have to ship untill tomorow |
| 20:58.46 | JeffM | since I approved art on the 18th |
| 20:59.40 | TheRedBaron | is there any documention for the recordmatch plugin ? |
| 21:00.31 | whodaman | TheRedBaron, JeffM just composed something on the wiki about his new system |
| 21:00.40 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, nope |
| 21:00.45 | TheRedBaron | egads |
| 21:00.49 | JeffM | whodaman, thats difrent |
| 21:01.33 | JeffM | the new match managment spec has nothing to do with recording |
| 21:01.36 | TheRedBaron | ~seen quol |
| 21:01.39 | ibot | quol <n=Ian@69.90.0.146> was last seen on IRC in channel ##kierra, 18d 3h 40m 41s ago, saying: 'I hope he doesn't get as big as "Clifford" :)'. |
| 21:01.59 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, it's a very simple plugin what did you need to know about it? |
| 21:02.27 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: How to start recording when /countdown is entered. |
| 21:02.33 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16789 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/recordmatch/recordmatch.cpp: whitespace |
| 21:02.35 | JeffM | it's automatic |
| 21:02.43 | JeffM | when the game starts, it records |
| 21:02.46 | JeffM | when it ends it stops |
| 21:02.46 | *** join/#bzflag torghul (n=chatzill@78.171.227.181) |
| 21:02.53 | TheRedBaron | even if /gameover ends it prematurely? |
| 21:02.56 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:03.07 | JeffM | it's tied into the gamestart and gameend events |
| 21:03.13 | TheRedBaron | then i've configured it wrong :) |
| 21:03.27 | JeffM | the only conifg it needs is a path for the dirs |
| 21:03.29 | JeffM | files |
| 21:03.50 | JeffM | unless /gameover dosn't call the gameEnd event |
| 21:04.34 | TheRedBaron | well - I just tried /countdown - played around for 5 minutes, and then ran /gameover and went to check the replay |
| 21:04.58 | TheRedBaron | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:06.32 | TheRedBaron | i've specified -recbuf % but not -recbufonly |
| 21:07.03 | catay | TheRedBaron: that might be the reason why it's not working |
| 21:07.08 | TheRedBaron | ok |
| 21:08.18 | catay | i had something similar in the past |
| 21:08.30 | catay | removing that entry in the config fixed it |
| 21:08.36 | JeffM | yeah the plugin just calls the start and stop on the recording when it gets the events, thats it |
| 21:08.56 | JeffM | it'll handle the file names and calling and saving the buffers |
| 21:09.41 | TheRedBaron | but do i need to specify a buffer size or no? |
| 21:09.47 | TheRedBaron | its not going to reach a mem limit is it? |
| 21:12.02 | JeffM | dunno |
| 21:13.05 | catay | TheRedBaron: 1vs1 league runs without it, never had any issues, but it are also short games |
| 21:18.35 | Erickj92 | how do i bring down my jitter and keep me from getting kicked from a server? |
| 21:18.55 | JeffM | are you using wireless networking? |
| 21:19.16 | whodaman | Erickj92, hmm, close all other apps your using and try and connect with an ethernet cable over WLAN |
| 21:19.25 | Erickj92 | in on ethernet |
| 21:19.32 | Erickj92 | im* |
| 21:19.44 | JeffM | got other stuff running? |
| 21:19.58 | whodaman | close something like Limewire |
| 21:19.58 | Erickj92 | yes |
| 21:20.04 | JeffM | close all you want |
| 21:20.05 | whodaman | or Torrent app |
| 21:20.16 | Erickj92 | i dont have anything like that going |
| 21:20.26 | whodaman | maybe the server is on a crappy connection |
| 21:20.33 | JeffM | how bad is your connection? |
| 21:20.34 | whodaman | were you playing at bzfmaps.net? :p |
| 21:20.43 | Erickj92 | no |
| 21:20.51 | Erickj92 | JeffM, its DSL |
| 21:21.00 | JeffM | how bad is the jitter? |
| 21:21.30 | Erickj92 | 45 ms? |
| 21:21.39 | TD-Linux | ow |
| 21:21.41 | Erickj92 | i think thats what it told me |
| 21:21.41 | JeffM | that your lag? or your jitter? |
| 21:21.46 | Erickj92 | jitter |
| 21:21.55 | JeffM | ouch |
| 21:22.19 | Erickj92 | should i like wait and hour and see? |
| 21:24.48 | TheRedBaron | yea - I'm deffinately doing something wrong |
| 21:25.04 | TheRedBaron | any benevolent server admins care to share .conf secrets? :) |
| 21:25.07 | *** join/#bzflag noyb_ (n=noyb@pool-71-119-173-104.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:26.09 | CBG | TheRedBaron: anything specific? |
| 21:26.54 | TheRedBaron | the -loadplugin and -replay -recdir settings |
| 21:27.32 | JeffM | you don't need recdir |
| 21:27.42 | JeffM | and I don't think replay ether |
| 21:27.46 | JeffM | the plugin will do it all |
| 21:28.07 | JeffM | you pass the dir to the plugin |
| 21:28.28 | JeffM | -loadplugin recordmatch,some/dir/on/your/machine |
| 21:30.05 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: according to man bzfs you use those... |
| 21:30.35 | TheRedBaron | this is on 2.0.10 |
| 21:31.23 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, yeah but the man page is not for the plugin |
| 21:31.29 | JeffM | it is for doing it manualy |
| 21:31.36 | JeffM | the plugiin does stuff FOR you |
| 21:32.15 | TheRedBaron | then how do I tell the plugin where to save the recordings? |
| 21:33.36 | JeffM | <JeffM> -loadplugin recordmatch,some/dir/on/your/machine |
| 21:33.59 | TheRedBaron | ok |
| 21:41.57 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: not quite |
| 21:42.19 | TheRedBaron | while that is the correct syntax - it tries to default to $HOME/.bzfs/recordings |
| 21:42.42 | TheRedBaron | vs /some/dir/of/my/choice |
| 21:46.55 | Constitution | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 21:50.51 | Erroneous | wonders what that's for |
| 21:51.37 | Constitution | all the cleanup |
| 21:51.48 | Erroneous | ah, just a few lil' patches |
| 21:52.02 | Constitution | you're too modest ;) |
| 21:52.05 | Erroneous | is just trying to do his part for the impending release |
| 21:53.32 | Constitution | how's that looking? |
| 21:53.34 | CBG | impending doom |
| 21:53.46 | Constitution | saw JeffM and blast007 were working on some bug last night |
| 21:54.34 | Erroneous | there are still a lot of bugs that have to be worked out |
| 21:54.52 | CBG | There's never not been a lot of bugs. :P |
| 21:55.06 | Erroneous | there are more than are acceptable for release |
| 21:56.11 | Epyon | Application submission online O.o |
| 21:56.27 | Constitution | time for my PHP client port application |
| 21:56.27 | Epyon | feels a lot less secure about applying than last year o.O |
| 21:56.29 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0D205.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:58.30 | AHA | ~winny++ |
| 21:58.47 | TheRedBaron | and its still not recording |
| 22:01.03 | *** join/#bzflag Rebel (n=47360b92@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:04.51 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright___ (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:04.55 | Constitution | Epyon: I think you talk like that on purpose to gain sympathy ;) |
| 22:05.05 | Constitution | seriously, you did a good job last year |
| 22:06.37 | Epyon | Constitution, BZWG isn't high in the ranking this year though :P |
| 22:09.14 | torghul | how many slots did you guys got last year? |
| 22:09.19 | Epyon | 4 |
| 22:09.50 | torghul | and... all successful? |
| 22:10.01 | Epyon | More or less yes. |
| 22:10.16 | CBG | How many slots this year? Is it announced yet? |
| 22:10.41 | Epyon | Nope, it wont be until apps are in and ranked. |
| 22:11.01 | Constitution | I think we requested five |
| 22:11.44 | *** join/#bzflag BOEINGUSA2 (n=45fb03e2@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:11.54 | BOEINGUSA2 | het |
| 22:12.20 | Epyon | yo |
| 22:12.29 | CBG | het het |
| 22:12.47 | Epyon | So much for that one... who'll dispose of the corpse? |
| 22:13.00 | CBG | I got it. |
| 22:13.05 | Thumper_ | new language. 1 het arrive, 2 het's leave |
| 22:13.07 | KTL | meat pie glorious meat pie |
| 22:13.11 | CBG | I'll just chuck it on top of the pile. |
| 22:13.16 | CBG | lol TheRedBaron |
| 22:13.20 | CBG | Thumper_: * |
| 22:13.28 | CBG | sorry TheRedBaron! don't shoot me! |
| 22:13.54 | KTL | (in dutch: het is like the) |
| 22:14.06 | Thumper_ | that's like the plaque on the bathroom door... 1 knock hurry up, 2 knocks can't wait, 3 knocks... forget it. what's 3 hets? |
| 22:14.11 | TheRedBaron | CBG: are you using my name in vain? :P |
| 22:14.19 | CBG | as always |
| 22:15.07 | JeffM | Constitution, we don't request any |
| 22:15.28 | JeffM | we asign mentors to how ever many we want |
| 22:15.35 | JeffM | then google tells us how many we get at the end |
| 22:16.14 | TheRedBaron | who wrote the recordmatch plugin? |
| 22:16.21 | JeffM | me |
| 22:16.54 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-094-204.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:19.30 | CBG | Somewhat offtopic, sorry... Can one create a mesh by hand coding it, then somehow import it into wings3d/whatever for uv mapping, for example..? |
| 22:19.43 | JeffM | sure |
| 22:19.53 | JeffM | the client can do a savemap as an obj |
| 22:19.53 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@206-248-157-113.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 22:19.59 | JeffM | then you can import that OBJ into your modeler |
| 22:20.01 | brlcad | hello Lukstr |
| 22:20.03 | JeffM | then export as an OBJ |
| 22:20.05 | CBG | Is it clean? |
| 22:20.08 | Lukstr | ah! |
| 22:20.10 | Lukstr | hi brlcad |
| 22:20.12 | JeffM | then convert that oBJ to bzw ;) |
| 22:20.18 | JeffM | CBG, what do you mean by "clean"? |
| 22:20.27 | TheRedBaron | it keeps looking for recordings in $HOME/.bzfs/recordings - despite -loadplugin,/please/save/here being in the config file |
| 22:20.35 | CBG | iirc, saveworld was "messy" somehow |
| 22:20.43 | Lukstr | brlcad: how goes |
| 22:20.47 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, the plugin only changes where it saves them not where it loads them |
| 22:20.48 | brlcad | busy |
| 22:20.55 | brlcad | Lukstr: but good |
| 22:20.57 | Lukstr | fun stuff :) |
| 22:21.07 | Lukstr | I, too, am busy |
| 22:21.10 | JeffM | CBG, won't matter, you are going to impor it |
| 22:21.32 | CBG | ok, cool. thanks JeffM |
| 22:21.54 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: then how can I change the load dir? |
| 22:22.04 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, I do not know, that is not part of the plugin |
| 22:22.15 | Lukstr | brlcad: hopefully I'll find time to work on my app tonight. |
| 22:22.42 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@207-177-229-17.dsl.redshift.com) |
| 22:23.03 | brlcad | Lukstr: hopefully |
| 22:23.55 | Lukstr | do you know how many slots you have yet? |
| 22:25.20 | JeffM | no |
| 22:25.29 | JeffM | the slots are not choisen till after |
| 22:25.29 | Lukstr | I built the bzflag trunk on my laptop today, so yay :) |
| 22:25.45 | JeffM | basicly we rank the applications |
| 22:25.51 | JeffM | and asign mentors to the ones we want |
| 22:26.29 | Lukstr | right |
| 22:26.37 | JeffM | then google selectes the top N for us |
| 22:26.53 | Lukstr | how many did you get last year? |
| 22:26.56 | JeffM | 4 |
| 22:28.01 | JeffM | I expect we will asign mentors to 5 maybe 6 this year if the applications are good |
| 22:29.10 | AHA | ~Constitution++ |
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| 22:36.53 | brlcad | Lukstr: and we probably won't ask for much more than that |
| 22:36.58 | brlcad | probably not more than 5 at this point |
| 22:37.16 | JeffM | that's what I said ;) |
| 22:37.27 | JeffM | 6 would be a very special case |
| 22:37.33 | brlcad | ah yeah, reading in reverse |
| 22:37.38 | brlcad | er, forward |
| 22:37.40 | JeffM | heh |
| 22:39.26 | brlcad | prof really hasn't got his ideas up in time, so I don't see that 6th happening |
| 22:40.14 | brlcad | so back to 4 or 5 |
| 22:40.23 | JeffM | ahh ok |
| 22:40.30 | JeffM | agrees |
| 22:40.41 | brlcad | they may be even more slot-limited this year than last given there was a 30% increase in orgs but not 30% increase in funding |
| 22:41.40 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: more than likely its the KCI, but I find the recordmatch to be a bit broken |
| 22:41.49 | TheRedBaron | KCI = Keyboard Chair Interface |
| 22:42.17 | Winny | ~pebkac |
| 22:42.17 | ibot | Sounds like the Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair |
| 22:42.17 | TheRedBaron | it doesn't start automatically when /countdown is run |
| 22:42.34 | JeffM | brlcad, if we get 3 I'll be happy |
| 22:44.24 | TheRedBaron | and: -loadplugin recordmatch,/dir/of/choice doesnt' override save or load |
| 22:44.41 | brlcad | yeah, me too |
| 22:44.48 | TheRedBaron | however '-recdir' will override save and load /dir/of/choice |
| 22:44.57 | brlcad | after last year, I'm not going to cry if that line is lowered |
| 22:45.53 | brlcad | er, "raised" I guess :) |
| 22:46.19 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, nope it dosn't overide anything, that is JUST the dir that it uses to save the recordings it automaticl makes |
| 22:46.19 | brlcad | especially with the additional effort going in to interview and critique |
| 22:46.33 | JeffM | it does not affect the native record commands in any way |
| 22:46.47 | TheRedBaron | let me test 1 more thing |
| 22:46.58 | JeffM | brlcad, well you do have more to do this year for you |
| 22:47.15 | JeffM | but we can do more to hold our own on this side |
| 22:47.20 | JeffM | so I'd also not balk at 5 |
| 22:47.52 | brlcad | I spent a ton of time mentoring last year too, I'm hoping to actually do less of that |
| 22:48.17 | JeffM | brlcad, yeah, we'll buck up |
| 22:48.23 | JeffM | I didn't do much last year |
| 22:48.26 | JeffM | I'll do more this year |
| 22:48.31 | JeffM | we can swap |
| 22:48.33 | JeffM | :) |
| 22:48.56 | brlcad | daxxar's mentor pretty much disappeared, so I backed up |
| 22:49.03 | brlcad | pretty early on too |
| 22:49.08 | JeffM | you can be the grumpy old man this year |
| 22:49.12 | brlcad | heh |
| 22:49.53 | brlcad | sounds good to me |
| 22:50.11 | JeffM | totaly asigns the ant guy to brlcad |
| 22:50.26 | Epyon | Heh I could do that too, I learned by watching and being target xP |
| 22:51.40 | JeffM | yeah but you are a student ;) |
| 22:51.42 | jorgenpt | :-p |
| 22:52.05 | Epyon | JeffM, I'm not yet :P |
| 22:52.31 | brlcad | mentors don't get paid :) |
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| 22:52.50 | Epyon | brlcad, but they get to play the grumpy old man ^_^ |
| 22:53.17 | brlcad | meh, shut up and sit still there |
| 22:53.28 | brlcad | grumbles smirkingly |
| 22:54.07 | JeffM | gumpy old man is prety easy to do. you just have to badger people untill they explain the idea in a way that is understandable with out looking at code |
| 22:59.55 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: the plugin shoul start with /countdown right? |
| 23:00.28 | JeffM | indeed |
| 23:01.15 | Lukstr | brlcad: Affirmative |
| 23:06.26 | Lukstr | would I be shot for suggesting to replace the BZW parser with a lex/yacc implementation? |
| 23:07.22 | L4m3r | let's use XML! |
| 23:07.22 | brlcad | not by me |
| 23:07.37 | L4m3r | puts on his flak jacket and runs |
| 23:07.45 | Erroneous | I doubt you'd be shot. You'd have to be fairly convincing for some folks. |
| 23:07.46 | brlcad | lex/yacc is a bit of a bitch to maintain across to windows |
| 23:08.02 | Erroneous | not really, just check in the generated c files |
| 23:08.06 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:08.32 | Erroneous | just means windows devs won't work on the parser |
| 23:08.38 | Lukstr | haha |
| 23:08.40 | Lukstr | exactly |
| 23:08.43 | brlcad | well, that's the bitch I was thinking of .. anytime it changes, commit commit commit |
| 23:08.59 | *** join/#bzflag NyadJ55 (n=jason@dsl-242-81-95.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 23:09.12 | brlcad | (one commit, point being multiple updates) |
| 23:09.18 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: you don't have any documentation for recordmatch plugin? nada? |
| 23:09.37 | JeffM | no |
| 23:09.42 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, as I said, it's butt simple |
| 23:09.44 | brlcad | Lukstr: you could probably find a portable lexer/parser library |
| 23:09.47 | JeffM | it does ONE thing |
| 23:09.58 | brlcad | there was a pretty nifty C++ one we ran across couple years ago |
| 23:10.00 | JeffM | it was writen in like 45 min ;) |
| 23:10.00 | Lukstr | brlcad: wuah? why do I need a library? |
| 23:10.21 | Lukstr | you dislike generated c code? |
| 23:10.23 | brlcad | Lukstr: to not actually depends on lex/yacc but still have a bnf description |
| 23:10.26 | TheRedBaron | Then I'm doing something horribly and most likely simply wrong, and I've no documentation to tell me what i'm doing wrong :( |
| 23:10.45 | Nyad | Hello. I am a student wanting to join this project for GSoC. I am keen on doing this from your ideas page, Modularization of game logic |
| 23:10.47 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, welcome to bzflag ;) |
| 23:10.57 | brlcad | library is a strong word in this context .. it was just a couple classes |
| 23:11.22 | Lukstr | hmm |
| 23:11.24 | JeffM | Lukstr, code maintainability is a big thing for us, and me |
| 23:11.25 | brlcad | hello Nyad |
| 23:11.30 | JeffM | hey Nyad |
| 23:11.33 | Lukstr | JeffM: I certainly agree |
| 23:11.38 | brlcad | Nyad: are you familiar with bzflag codebase? |
| 23:11.43 | JeffM | bison was a PAIN in bzwb |
| 23:11.46 | JeffM | bzwg |
| 23:11.54 | Lukstr | But you disapprove of black-boxing lex/yacc generated C? |
| 23:12.10 | JeffM | it would not be my personal favoriate |
| 23:12.17 | JeffM | our map format is rather simple |
| 23:12.22 | Nyad | not yet. But I know my OpenGL so separating Graphics code should be within my ability |
| 23:12.36 | JeffM | our current parsers are prety good |
| 23:12.41 | JeffM | they just need to be modularised |
| 23:12.46 | Lukstr | JeffM: Yes, I agree |
| 23:12.58 | brlcad | i'd certainly really appreciate having our format be in .l .y files, but more interesting/useful would just be to abstract it into a really simple/clean lib |
| 23:12.59 | JeffM | our current parsers are also "not broke" |
| 23:13.12 | JeffM | yes a lib would be best |
| 23:13.22 | Lukstr | a lib for what, BZW? |
| 23:13.25 | Erroneous | libworld ftw :) |
| 23:13.26 | brlcad | right |
| 23:13.31 | brlcad | heh, libworld |
| 23:13.36 | JeffM | Lukstr, for all things that need to use maps |
| 23:13.37 | brlcad | the external dir of one file |
| 23:13.40 | Erroneous | heh |
| 23:13.44 | JeffM | bzwb, bzwg, bzfs, modeltool |
| 23:13.45 | Lukstr | JeffM: That's my plan :P |
| 23:13.49 | Erroneous | what can I say, we didn't get very far :) |
| 23:13.58 | Nyad | yes but at least I won't break it since I have an understanding of what the OpenGL code is doing. |
| 23:14.12 | JeffM | but I woudl NOT start by just replacing it with new code Lukstr I'd make our code modular, and get your API defined |
| 23:14.21 | Lukstr | JeffM: I agree completely, |
| 23:14.29 | Lukstr | I was just putting it out there, food for thought |
| 23:14.39 | JeffM | then once the lib is complete and working, THEN you look at refactoring the backend to have better features |
| 23:14.43 | Lukstr | I do not want to go and rewrite everything, trust me |
| 23:14.43 | brlcad | Nyad: heh, you do? feel free to share that knowledge cause I still scratch my head at times :) |
| 23:14.51 | Lukstr | JeffM: that is my plan indeed |
| 23:14.57 | JeffM | Lukstr, cool |
| 23:15.17 | Erroneous | like I said, for some people you'll have to be quite convincing ;) |
| 23:15.21 | Lukstr | hah |
| 23:15.41 | Nyad | well I'm just trying to sell myself atm. I'm new to this GSoC thing so I'm not 100% sure what I'm supposed to be saying here :) |
| 23:15.41 | brlcad | Lukstr: if you did want to do a lexer/parser approach, I think that is sellable and maintainable -- not being able to develop on windows is a huge long-term maintenance problem though, you'd have to address that |
| 23:15.42 | JeffM | I mean personaly I don't know Y+L, but then again I don't think I'll ever implement another map object in base code again |
| 23:15.50 | JeffM | so I don't care what parses it |
| 23:16.05 | JeffM | CustomWorldObjects FTW! |
| 23:16.28 | JeffM | Nyad, anything you want to say |
| 23:16.32 | JeffM | we are all open :) |
| 23:16.42 | Lukstr | brlcad: by develop on windows you mean run lex/yacC? |
| 23:16.42 | JeffM | you can discuss anythign and everyting about your application with us here |
| 23:16.46 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: ok - all I have is simple: -loadplugin recordmatch. upon /countdown it doesn't automatically start recording - i have to start it manuall via /record start if i want it to record |
| 23:17.01 | JeffM | TheRedBaron, then the plugin is not working |
| 23:17.03 | JeffM | debug it |
| 23:17.03 | brlcad | Lukstr: fwiw, I wrote a complete lexer/parser for .bzw over a year ago .. never committed it for the aforementioned reasons |
| 23:17.32 | Constitution | goes to add "Port of BZFlag client to the superior language PHP" to the ideas wiki page |
| 23:17.40 | Erroneous | smacks Constitution |
| 23:17.42 | brlcad | Lukstr: I mean modify whatever source files are needed to change the format, and actually be able to independently test those changes on their system |
| 23:17.42 | Constitution | must have that project |
| 23:18.01 | Lukstr | brlcad: afaik there are indeed lex/yacc alternatives for windows that are 100% compatible |
| 23:18.08 | brlcad | that's why I mentioned the simple c++ lexer/parser class files, that avoids the whole external binary dependency |
| 23:18.16 | JeffM | Constitution, if you said python, you'd have supporters |
| 23:18.25 | Erroneous | Lukstr: in general, they're a pain to set up |
| 23:18.30 | Lukstr | Erroneous: lies! |
| 23:18.32 | Nyad | JeffM: thanks :). So I must submit my application letter to you guys but where do I submit it? on the mailing list? |
| 23:18.43 | Lukstr | brlcad: I guess, but you're dependant on some things no matter what |
| 23:18.47 | Erroneous | Lukstr: windows does not have a real equivalent for make ;) |
| 23:18.53 | JeffM | Nyad, have you read the FAQ that google has provided? |
| 23:19.00 | brlcad | Lukstr: no, you bring those class files in (src/other ftw) |
| 23:19.06 | Lukstr | Errorneous: There are 3rd party alternatives |
| 23:19.07 | brlcad | they're just part of the build then |
| 23:19.09 | CBG | BZ in PHP would be very cool indeed. |
| 23:19.20 | Nyad | yes |
| 23:19.23 | CBG | gets started on that right now. |
| 23:19.28 | JeffM | brlcad, our SoC wiki's should link to the google pags |
| 23:19.29 | L4m3r | GL over HTTP, sounds like fun |
| 23:19.33 | Erroneous | Lukstr: as it is we build out of the box on visual c++. we'd like to keep it that way thanks very much. |
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| 23:19.39 | CBG | L4m3r: heck yeah! |
| 23:19.42 | Constitution | CBG: indeed... we must continue the crusade against all inferior languages such as C++ and perl |
| 23:19.45 | catay | TheRedBaron: did it load correctly ? |
| 23:19.49 | JeffM | Nyad, then in there it should describe how you use the web application to submit your application |
| 23:19.50 | CBG | C++ suxorz |
| 23:19.56 | brlcad | JeffM: it does |
| 23:19.56 | JeffM | Nyad, it's all doen via the SoC website |
| 23:19.59 | Lukstr | Erroneous: VC++ has a Make alternative, no? |
| 23:20.01 | JeffM | brlcad, all of them? |
| 23:20.12 | Nyad | ah yes, silly me. thanks |
| 23:20.14 | JeffM | ideas, application, and main page |
| 23:20.16 | JeffM | ? |
| 23:20.18 | Erroneous | Lukstr: nmake is a crippled, ugly, and terrible little excuse for a tool :) |
| 23:20.26 | Erroneous | msbuild is much better but it's very new |
| 23:20.33 | brlcad | JeffM: all of what? |
| 23:20.54 | JeffM | Lukstr, actualy on windows we build "out of the box" in visual studio 2005 with no external dependencioes |
| 23:20.55 | brlcad | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code links to google |
| 23:21.16 | JeffM | brlcad, the other pages, applicaiton guidelines, etc.. |
| 23:22.09 | brlcad | erhm.. why? |
| 23:22.14 | brlcad | they cover a specific topic |
| 23:22.16 | JeffM | the 2008 page dosn't have a link to google that I can see, nor a link back to the SOC page |
| 23:22.26 | JeffM | many people are linked diretly to the 2008 page I fear |
| 23:22.33 | JeffM | but I may be fearmongering |
| 23:22.36 | JeffM | and wrong ;) |
| 23:22.58 | brlcad | the very first link in 2008 links back to our http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code page |
| 23:23.09 | JeffM | ahh so it does |
| 23:23.10 | JeffM | my bad |
| 23:23.20 | brlcad | and there's a step-by-step getting started guide that lays it all out |
| 23:23.41 | JeffM | heh, should add "read the google FAQ" ;) |
| 23:23.45 | brlcad | if they can't follow a bulleted list, that's not boding well |
| 23:24.13 | Nyad | yes its here. thanks it explains all |
| 23:24.29 | brlcad | happens |
| 23:26.01 | JeffM | aww, you diddn't add "kill a mentor in game" to the list ;) |
| 23:26.12 | Lukstr | hah |
| 23:26.37 | Lukstr | So, out of curiosity, are there more MS Devs than Unix? |
| 23:26.40 | JeffM | no |
| 23:27.06 | JeffM | is a minority |
| 23:27.09 | Lukstr | hehe |
| 23:27.19 | JeffM | but we do get a LOT of people trying to just play with the code on windows |
| 23:27.34 | JeffM | we also do our best to minimise external dependencies |
| 23:27.38 | Epyon | libworld.... |
| 23:27.41 | Erroneous | ...which is why "just check in the generated c files" is not a terrible solution |
| 23:27.47 | Epyon | Actually that ain't such a dumb idea |
| 23:27.55 | Lukstr | Erroneous: that's why I'm confused |
| 23:27.58 | Lukstr | ever-so-slightly |
| 23:28.05 | JeffM | Erroneous, no it's not, we did it for WG |
| 23:28.23 | Epyon | If we'd abstracted the world layer, we'd be able to load maps in any supported format :P |
| 23:28.26 | JeffM | but it's not as optimal in my mind as brlcad's idea of making it into a little class |
| 23:28.45 | Lukstr | Besides it's not like you'd want to actually regenerate identical code on each build |
| 23:28.57 | Epyon | Nyad, remember that modularization is not about the GL code, but the rest that needs to be moved :P |
| 23:29.04 | JeffM | Lukstr, yet it makes it harder for a dev to change it if they need to |
| 23:29.11 | JeffM | since to change that code you'd need to have other things |
| 23:29.20 | Lukstr | Like what? |
| 23:29.20 | JeffM | thats what I don't like about it |
| 23:29.37 | brlcad | like a lexer and a parser |
| 23:29.38 | Lukstr | There's nothing stopping you from going in an editing the c files it produces |
| 23:29.44 | Epyon | Nyad, my suggestion -- look at the client code, and see what needs to be ripped from it to be "modular". There are several things that need to be moved to the server |
| 23:29.47 | brlcad | ever add the configure checks for those bozos? |
| 23:29.47 | JeffM | if you jsut check in the generated code, and I want to change the parser, do I edit that generated code? or should I regen the code from tye lex stuff? |
| 23:29.50 | brlcad | nasty |
| 23:30.00 | Nyad | Epyon: will do |
| 23:30.16 | JeffM | Nyad, my sugestion, is to do the oposite ;) |
| 23:30.19 | brlcad | Lukstr: no no .. having anyone edit generated C files is a non-starter |
| 23:30.22 | Epyon | brlcad, that libworld idea sounds good :P |
| 23:30.28 | Lukstr | brlcad: yeah, I agree |
| 23:30.33 | brlcad | that's entirely not maintainable, they are not the authoritative sources |
| 23:30.33 | JeffM | look at what can be pulled OUT of the client, grahics, sound, network, input |
| 23:30.41 | JeffM | then what you have left can be broken into 2 libs |
| 23:30.44 | JeffM | libState |
| 23:30.47 | JeffM | and libGame |
| 23:30.53 | JeffM | and some client glue |
| 23:31.02 | JeffM | in the end the client dosn't need libGame |
| 23:31.03 | brlcad | Epyon: sounds like you'lll have to arm-wrestle Lukstr for it |
| 23:31.06 | JeffM | it only needs libState |
| 23:31.11 | JeffM | the server needs libgame |
| 23:31.12 | Lukstr | rawr! |
| 23:31.16 | JeffM | and a libState |
| 23:31.25 | Epyon | Nah I wont. Lukstr, what's your project? |
| 23:31.43 | Lukstr | Modularization of code shared between.... things :P |
| 23:31.48 | Epyon | lol |
| 23:31.49 | Lukstr | Primarily focused on BZWorkBench I guess |
| 23:31.59 | brlcad | always saw libState == libGame eventually, at least game includes keeping a current game state |
| 23:32.02 | Epyon | Everyone goes for the modularization? :P |
| 23:32.10 | Lukstr | However, that's more or less assuming someone WILL be working on BZWorkBench, in case that doesn't happen.. |
| 23:32.13 | Lukstr | modularization in general |
| 23:32.15 | JeffM | brlcad, nope state is not game in the dumb client method |
| 23:32.16 | JeffM | ;) |
| 23:32.16 | brlcad | *everything* you need to run the game |
| 23:32.25 | Epyon | brlcad, I think he meant libState and libPresentation :P |
| 23:32.26 | JeffM | then the client dosn't want or need that |
| 23:32.40 | JeffM | the state just represents an interploateable state that can be updated |
| 23:32.45 | JeffM | it dosnt' have an game logic |
| 23:32.50 | JeffM | dosn't need any |
| 23:32.56 | JeffM | all that game logic goes on the server |
| 23:33.00 | JeffM | in it's own API |
| 23:33.01 | Epyon | JeffM, your approach is... wierd. |
| 23:33.01 | L4m3r | just what it needs to draw, right? |
| 23:33.17 | JeffM | so that we can replace libGAme with other game logics to have other games the bz |
| 23:33.22 | JeffM | Epyon, just generic |
| 23:33.29 | JeffM | L4m3r, draw and sim |
| 23:33.39 | JeffM | basicly all the prediction methods |
| 23:33.42 | JeffM | collisions |
| 23:33.43 | JeffM | movements |
| 23:33.43 | Epyon | So a client would now be libGame, libState and Presentation right? |
| 23:33.47 | brlcad | is really confused then, maybe just the terms being used |
| 23:33.54 | JeffM | brlcad, probably |
| 23:34.01 | Epyon | Then we'd throw away libGame moving it completely to the server right? |
| 23:34.04 | JeffM | I don't like the term libGame cus it's not a game |
| 23:34.07 | JeffM | it's jsut a state |
| 23:34.10 | JeffM | Epyon, yes |
| 23:34.13 | Epyon | O.OOOOO |
| 23:34.16 | Nyad | JeffM: why do you say I should do the opposite? coz everyone goes for the moduralization so I should try another task? |
| 23:34.18 | JeffM | the GAME is the "what happens when this happens" |
| 23:34.31 | JeffM | Nyad, no I mean the approach to modularisation |
| 23:34.31 | Epyon | libGame is not a game it's just a state.... then what the hell is libState???? O.o |
| 23:34.48 | JeffM | Epyon, thats why I don't like the name libGame |
| 23:34.53 | JeffM | and want to use the name libState |
| 23:34.54 | brlcad | the idea with libgame is that eventually you could write an entire server or entire client or stand-alone game using that lib for the game logic, game state, object management -- it's the data controller |
| 23:35.09 | JeffM | brlcad, I'd split it |
| 23:35.13 | Epyon | libRules, libState, libPresentation is what I would go for :P |
| 23:35.18 | Lukstr|Food | bbl |
| 23:35.23 | JeffM | Epyon, sure that's another way to name it |
| 23:35.29 | Epyon | It's just that libState is just silly, because a state is a state, and not code :P |
| 23:35.43 | JeffM | brlcad, the game logic dosnt' need to maintain the state, we can do that in a seperate lib |
| 23:35.53 | brlcad | I'm really not convinced that there's any value to separating them |
| 23:35.56 | L4m3r | modularization ftw :) |
| 23:36.05 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:36.06 | JeffM | brlcad, so I can add libGameOpenCombat |
| 23:36.14 | Epyon | State gets passed from the server to the client. The client sends commands to the server, the server updates its state using rules, and sends the clients state back. |
| 23:36.15 | JeffM | that just changes how the rules work, and dosn't do any sim |
| 23:36.19 | brlcad | there are a lot of things in the game state update that require knowledge of the logic |
| 23:36.23 | Epyon | That's what I understand -_- |
| 23:36.38 | brlcad | ahhh, that's the motivation :P |
| 23:36.48 | brlcad | BZThousandParsec |
| 23:36.50 | Epyon | brlcad, and I undertsand it fully :P |
| 23:36.56 | JeffM | brlcad, much can be done with prediction classes |
| 23:36.58 | L4m3r | general customizeability is definitely something worth having :P |
| 23:37.03 | JeffM | and those need to be logic independent |
| 23:37.11 | brlcad | it's not just prediction |
| 23:37.20 | JeffM | give me an example? |
| 23:37.27 | brlcad | there's outright behavior rules that are tied to state |
| 23:37.33 | JeffM | such as? |
| 23:37.56 | brlcad | being able to jump which holding or not holding a jump flag |
| 23:38.12 | Epyon | The question is will the server be able to handle everything except the visualisation of the state? And will bandwidth be able to sustain everything sent? |
| 23:38.22 | JeffM | when you pick up the flag, the game logic gives you that attribute |
| 23:38.30 | JeffM | yes a number of attributes will have to be in state |
| 23:38.38 | JeffM | state will have to have all posible acctions |
| 23:38.47 | JeffM | but it dosn't need to know WHY you do those actions |
| 23:38.59 | brlcad | so we end up defining and managing a slew of entity and data types .. |
| 23:39.05 | Epyon | This is starting to sound actually exciting ;] |
| 23:39.19 | JeffM | brlcad, yeah you'd have to abstract it |
| 23:39.33 | JeffM | but it lets us be utliimately flexable on the back end |
| 23:39.45 | JeffM | and a very powerfull tool for other game types |
| 23:39.55 | brlcad | I'd expect that to quickly become an overabstracted burden myself |
| 23:39.57 | JeffM | never said it'd be easy ;) |
| 23:40.10 | brlcad | i mean we've not even been able to abstract just the display, and that one is pretty obvious |
| 23:40.11 | JeffM | brlcad, depends on how smart we do it |
| 23:40.17 | JeffM | heh |
| 23:40.26 | JeffM | I don't mean we have to do it all in one shot ;) |
| 23:40.31 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 23:40.37 | JeffM | we also haven't TRIED to do the display |
| 23:40.38 | brlcad | so this is the 5+ year plan? :) |
| 23:40.46 | JeffM | roadmaps man.. roadmaps |
| 23:41.20 | JeffM | any student that takes on the "game logic modularisiation" is going to have to deal with pulling display and sound out of the client as is, or at least seperating it |
| 23:41.34 | Epyon | One thing that definitively should be done is presenting some order in the clients folder -_- |
| 23:41.38 | brlcad | some have, on and off -- I worked hard refactoring pieces into libgame for over a year.. there's a lot to do to break into playing.cxx and bzflag.cxx |
| 23:41.54 | Epyon | UI is mixed with options with presentation with graphics and with everything else -_- |
| 23:41.56 | JeffM | yeah those are nasty files |
| 23:42.34 | JeffM | brlcad, thats why I think a better aprpoach is not to dig and find what you want to pull out, but to remove what you know doesn't stay, then what you are left with would be a smaller chunk that easier to refactor. |
| 23:42.39 | brlcad | they mostly boil down to having an App class and a Game class |
| 23:42.52 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:43.04 | JeffM | but think about what we need for BZAdmin |
| 23:43.06 | Epyon | playing.cxx is.... *shivers* PROCEDURAL O.o |
| 23:43.08 | JeffM | we don't need game for admin |
| 23:43.18 | JeffM | we just need net and part of state |
| 23:43.48 | Epyon | And it's over 100kb O.o |
| 23:44.21 | brlcad | Epyon: you sound like you're *cough* just looking at that file for the first time :P |
| 23:44.27 | JeffM | he is |
| 23:44.49 | brlcad | bzadmin doesn't have game now iirc |
| 23:44.50 | Epyon | JeffM, no I'm not, but I wanted to sound more dramatic ;] |
| 23:44.54 | L4m3r | well it's not like reading that code was essential for bzwg |
| 23:44.59 | JeffM | brlcad, but it has part of state |
| 23:45.07 | brlcad | ? |
| 23:45.08 | JeffM | it has players |
| 23:45.33 | brlcad | that's a bit of a stretch :) |
| 23:45.41 | brlcad | it's got some lists of data it keeps track of sure |
| 23:45.44 | JeffM | they have state data that gets updated ;) |
| 23:46.00 | JeffM | I'm just thinking if we had it all busted up, what parts we'd put in bzadmin |
| 23:46.10 | JeffM | and if we had a simple LibState, admin would just be net and state |
| 23:46.27 | JeffM | and it coudl tell net to ingore some messages |
| 23:46.30 | brlcad | but then I could just as easily add a display feature like proximity warnings that would require game logic |
| 23:46.40 | Epyon | brlcad, JeffM, let's assume, completely teorethicaly that I'd win the modularization app... At some point I'd neet to blow most of the core files of the client apart... that would be like world shaking... Wouldn't there be like, complete chaos, when that happened? |
| 23:46.41 | JeffM | sure, at that point you go and add in lib |
| 23:46.59 | Epyon | At least bzflag.cxx needs almost a complete refactor. |
| 23:47.00 | JeffM | Epyon, you would do it bit by bit |
| 23:47.07 | JeffM | many commits over the day |
| 23:47.11 | JeffM | you make a new file |
| 23:47.13 | JeffM | move a thing |
| 23:47.14 | JeffM | commit |
| 23:47.16 | JeffM | move a thing |
| 23:47.17 | JeffM | commit |
| 23:47.24 | brlcad | thousands of times over |
| 23:47.26 | JeffM | indeed |
| 23:47.28 | Constitution | like brlcad ;) |
| 23:47.29 | brlcad | each time everything still works |
| 23:47.31 | Epyon | Yeah, I guess that'd be best. |
| 23:47.39 | Epyon | I'd be the star of CIA.vc xO |
| 23:47.39 | Alesis-Novik | good night to you all |
| 23:47.40 | JeffM | Epyon, no that would be the only way |
| 23:47.41 | Epyon | :P |
| 23:47.50 | JeffM | no more code drops |
| 23:47.53 | *** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:47.54 | brlcad | so you get hit by a bus tomorrow, and it's all working, maybe half-migrated, but not a big mess |
| 23:48.02 | JeffM | Epyon, you also have to remember that I'll be int here moveing stuff with ouy |
| 23:48.08 | JeffM | every day |
| 23:48.08 | brlcad | cya Alesis-Novik |
| 23:48.11 | JeffM | every night |
| 23:48.26 | Epyon | JeffM, we'd hate each other quickly :P |
| 23:48.31 | L4m3r | JeffM: Are you trying to scare him off? :P |
| 23:48.41 | Epyon | signs off the Modularization app. |
| 23:48.43 | JeffM | Epyon, I'd hope not, I may well be your mentor on that one ;) |
| 23:49.04 | Epyon | L4m3r, no he was scared it could be actually me getting that job :P |
| 23:49.36 | JeffM | L4m3r, just letting him know that it will have to be VERY different then last year |
| 23:49.44 | brlcad | JeffM: I'd be a lot more convinced of the separation if we had it fully working non-separated first (i.e. libgame having everything), just separating out the display/audio component |
| 23:49.52 | Constitution | pc3200 |
| 23:49.58 | JeffM | brlcad, I totaly agree |
| 23:49.59 | brlcad | too many seperations in that sentence |
| 23:50.01 | Epyon | JeffM, I know, it wouldn't be my sandbox anymore, and I'd have to share the toys xP |
| 23:50.03 | Constitution | oops |
| 23:50.04 | JeffM | everything in stages |
| 23:50.31 | Epyon | brlcad, I think it would be best to separate IO out first |
| 23:50.43 | Epyon | Then think about games and states :P |
| 23:50.49 | Erroneous | thinks Epyon "gets" source control now, unlike the beginning of last summer... :) |
| 23:51.03 | Epyon | Erroneous, ? |
| 23:51.38 | Erroneous | Epyon: "just letting him know that it will have to be VERY different then last year" |
| 23:51.52 | Epyon | :P |
| 23:51.54 | Erroneous | Epyon: his point was it took us half the summer to get you to commit the first time :) |
| 23:52.42 | brlcad | Epyon: separating out the I/O is a separate project in itself |
| 23:52.52 | brlcad | you can do that completely independently for the most part |
| 23:53.01 | JeffM | indeed, I am sure Epyon has grown quite a bit as well |
| 23:53.02 | Epyon | Anyway, once Audio and Graphics are out of the client in a separate package then we will be able to judge whats lest and how can that be used or split. The upside will be that work on a engine integration will be easy then :) |
| 23:53.11 | Epyon | JeffM, half an inch. |
| 23:53.16 | JeffM | Epyon, that's the plan |
| 23:53.34 | JeffM | the modularsation needs to happen for many many things |
| 23:53.35 | Epyon | JeffM, so why do you have the modularization project? |
| 23:53.48 | JeffM | cus I like it |
| 23:53.50 | Epyon | If Audio/Graphics split comes first? |
| 23:53.50 | brlcad | busting out the db i/o is a lot easier |
| 23:53.59 | brlcad | just magnitude of code is at least an order less |
| 23:54.17 | JeffM | Epyon, it's all part of the same thing, just depends on how you look at it |
| 23:54.18 | brlcad | though there's more work with that one to hook everyone into it |
| 23:54.30 | JeffM | glass half full, half empty thing |
| 23:54.46 | L4m3r | rewrites BZFlag in ASM |
| 23:54.49 | Epyon | I'd submit a "Seperation of Audio and Graphics code from the client" proposal -- would that be inferior to a modularization proposal? |
| 23:54.53 | L4m3r | ...for MIPS system |
| 23:54.56 | JeffM | Epyon, no |
| 23:55.16 | JeffM | all propsals are judged the same :) |
| 23:55.18 | L4m3r | specific is better |
| 23:55.26 | Epyon | JeffM, that's not what I meant -_- |
| 23:56.25 | Epyon | hesitates. |
| 23:56.31 | JeffM | Epyon for me personaly I would weigh the tasks with similar importance |
| 23:56.43 | brlcad | specific, detailed, articulate, well-scoped, timeline, background info, etc |
| 23:56.45 | JeffM | but the importance of the task is not the major factor in it |
| 23:56.53 | JeffM | in fact it is a very minor part |
| 23:57.06 | JeffM | yeah all those thigns brlcad said, come before |
| 23:57.20 | Epyon | JeffM, is the integration of a graphics engine a minor part? |
| 23:57.47 | JeffM | Epyon, that is not a task that I think can be, or should be done for Summer Of Code |
| 23:57.56 | JeffM | not this year at least |
| 23:58.05 | JeffM | as a proejct we are not ready for it |
| 23:58.11 | L4m3r | yeah, it's too far away |
| 23:58.21 | JeffM | it would be determental to the development community |
| 23:58.32 | brlcad | the only submission I see that might actually "take priority" would be if anyone submitted a really good proposal for cheat prevention efforts, all the refactoring efforts are in the same class of work with strong needs |
| 23:58.32 | Epyon | JeffM, if the separation of the Graphics code would be done, then the integration of a graphics engine would be a step ahead. |
| 23:58.33 | JeffM | that is why the code breakups and refactoring are on there now |
| 23:58.42 | JeffM | Epyon, yes, A STEP |
| 23:58.44 | L4m3r | it woult take superhuman productivity for one person to do it in the SoC |
| 23:59.00 | L4m3r | given what it would take to get there :P |
| 23:59.02 | JeffM | L4m3r, it would also alienate the rest of the dev comunity |
| 23:59.09 | L4m3r | exactly |
| 23:59.17 | JeffM | Epyon, that is the point of the project, to get us closer |
| 23:59.20 | L4m3r | it'd be a different game, really |
| 23:59.35 | Epyon | O.o |
| 23:59.37 | JeffM | so that it would be easier for the rest of the comunity to get onboard with an engine system |
| 23:59.57 | L4m3r | goes to dinner |