| 00:02.31 | F687s | How are observers ordered in the stats list? |
| 00:02.37 | F687s | (HUD) |
| 00:06.31 | *** join/#bzflag bz59 (n=48585c93@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:06.41 | blast007 | hello bz59 |
| 00:06.58 | bz59 | hi |
| 00:07.20 | blast007 | bye |
| 00:08.23 | brad | F687s: you at the top, then by player ID - I think |
| 00:18.14 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 00:25.12 | *** join/#bzflag mibocote (n=matt@75-121-145-244.dyn.centurytel.net) |
| 00:28.23 | *** join/#bzflag BillyCrook1 (n=BillyCro@unaffiliated/billycrook) |
| 00:30.37 | *** part/#bzflag BillyCrook1 (n=BillyCro@unaffiliated/billycrook) |
| 00:31.08 | *** join/#bzflag dcat (n=dirtycat@pdpc/supporter/active/dcat) |
| 00:40.01 | Alesis-Novik-out | g'night |
| 00:43.26 | Winny | waves |
| 00:44.40 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-218-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:45.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 00:47.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b #bzflag!*@*] by JeffM2501 |
| 00:48.05 | Winny | eh? |
| 00:49.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b #bzflag!*@*] by JeffM2501 |
| 00:49.11 | SpazzyMcGee | heh? |
| 00:49.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*@190.161.93.47] by JeffM2501 |
| 00:49.48 | JeffM2501 | wrong macro |
| 00:50.09 | SpazzyMcGee | ah |
| 00:51.15 | *** join/#bzflag Rebel (n=47360b92@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:51.51 | Rebel | hello? |
| 00:51.58 | whodaman- | Hi Rebel |
| 00:52.02 | blast007 | hi |
| 00:53.00 | whodaman- | Anything we can help ya with, Rebel? |
| 00:53.46 | Rebel | sup |
| 00:53.49 | Rebel | yes |
| 00:53.58 | Rebel | i need to know how to become a admin? |
| 00:54.09 | JeffM2501 | on your own server? |
| 00:54.15 | Rebel | no |
| 00:54.18 | Winny | If a server owner wants you they will add you. Simple as that. |
| 00:54.26 | Rebel | on somone elses server |
| 00:54.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah that is up to the owner |
| 00:54.30 | JeffM2501 | not you |
| 00:54.30 | spldart | and don't ask a bunch of times |
| 00:54.38 | spldart | it's a turn off for the server owner |
| 00:55.04 | Rebel | i need a hold of donny_baker |
| 00:55.17 | JeffM2501 | why do you think he'd want you as an admin on his server? |
| 00:56.15 | Rebel | to much things going on no admins have time to help out |
| 00:56.31 | JeffM2501 | I can ensure you, if you ask him he will tell you no |
| 00:56.46 | JeffM2501 | a beter thing to do is simply make him aware of the problem and let him decide how to run his own server |
| 00:57.01 | Rebel | uh ok |
| 00:57.09 | Rebel | ur right i guess |
| 00:57.36 | JeffM2501 | you can't tell people what to do, or how they should run the hardware they own ;) |
| 00:57.37 | Rebel | but i was wondering if any of you have a server you could probably offer? |
| 00:57.48 | JeffM2501 | offer for what? |
| 00:58.02 | Rebel | i know im just saying i dont intend to be mean or aything |
| 00:58.16 | Rebel | i just want to help out |
| 00:58.19 | blast007 | You have to explain what you mean. We don't read minds. |
| 00:58.37 | Rebel | i cant stand laser spawning and tking |
| 00:58.47 | Rebel | oh srry |
| 00:58.55 | Rebel | im gettingh to far ahead arent i? |
| 00:59.01 | blast007 | yes |
| 00:59.01 | JeffM2501 | how old are you? |
| 00:59.19 | Rebel | 13 private school 10th grade lvl |
| 00:59.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah... |
| 00:59.32 | JeffM2501 | I do not think any server would make you an admin at that age |
| 00:59.44 | JeffM2501 | you need more experinece and time to learn comunication skills |
| 00:59.48 | Rebel | uh i supose ur right |
| 00:59.59 | JeffM2501 | admins aren't there just to punish people. A ban or kick is a last resort |
| 01:00.00 | Winny | Type properly, as well |
| 01:00.08 | Winny | whee.... |
| 01:01.26 | Winny | speaking of admins, I need more of them |
| 01:01.31 | Winny | goes to look through groups |
| 01:01.42 | blast007 | Winny: oooh! Pick Rebel! |
| 01:01.47 | Winny | blast007: kk! |
| 01:01.55 | JeffM2501 | and mikeeusa |
| 01:02.03 | whodaman- | and soxs. please |
| 01:02.06 | blast007 | hehe |
| 01:02.12 | whodaman- | I heard he is amazing |
| 01:02.12 | Winny | ;) |
| 01:02.21 | whodaman- | always knows how to solve the conflict |
| 01:02.29 | whodaman- | by pressing the magic button F5!! |
| 01:02.32 | Winny | whodaman-: by cheatinog? |
| 01:02.34 | whodaman- | runs |
| 01:02.40 | whodaman- | Winny, :p |
| 01:03.18 | BulletCatcher | Scrolling up, it looks like felipe__ would be a fine choice ;-) |
| 01:03.42 | blast007 | lol |
| 01:04.13 | Winny | too bad they didn't host their site on some crappy free host |
| 01:04.17 | *** join/#bzflag AHA (n=aha@unaffiliated/aha) |
| 01:04.18 | *** join/#bzflag Piet (n=5b237b58@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:04.29 | Winny | we could request pages and make their webhost take 'em down |
| 01:04.56 | Winny | ;) |
| 01:05.00 | blast007 | Winny: they aren't violating anything though |
| 01:05.15 | Winny | so? ;) |
| 01:05.27 | blast007 | it's well within the license to post that kind of information |
| 01:05.56 | JeffM2501 | and it's blogspot |
| 01:06.01 | JeffM2501 | they don't really care much about things |
| 01:06.09 | blast007 | so instead of worrying about getting them "shut down", it would be more productive to just preventing it from being possible ;) |
| 01:06.22 | Winny | indeed |
| 01:06.39 | BulletCatcher | That *is* one of the goals of 3.0, isn't it? |
| 01:06.43 | JeffM2501 | fix a bug ;) |
| 01:06.53 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher: to fix all cheats.. no |
| 01:06.57 | Winny | Give me a few months.. sheesh :P |
| 01:07.07 | JeffM2501 | to fix as many as people are willing to do.. sure |
| 01:08.28 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16774 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC8/3D.vcproj: 3d doesn't have res files |
| 01:09.03 | spldart | BTW jeff I can now test clients five ways to tomorrow... I have linux box to my left and windows box to right and can have two clients running @ same time from both os's on my server testing stuff like thief in 20 minutes are less if I don't have to fresh build |
| 01:09.04 | Winny | wonders how hard it would be to implement server side shot tracking |
| 01:09.25 | BulletCatcher | I am working on a cheat-prevention fix for shot vertical velocity... |
| 01:09.37 | JeffM2501 | Winny: just reformating existing code |
| 01:09.50 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher: what does your change do? |
| 01:09.54 | Winny | It couldn't be too tough.. grab the shot locations coming in, and check them with the curret poisitions of tanks... |
| 01:10.10 | JeffM2501 | Winny: that's not tracking |
| 01:10.13 | JeffM2501 | we do that now |
| 01:10.22 | JeffM2501 | shots always start where the tank is |
| 01:10.26 | JeffM2501 | it's where they go from then on |
| 01:10.27 | BulletCatcher | JeffM2501: My fix just enforces shotskeepverticalvelocity at the server. |
| 01:10.36 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher: in trunk or branch? |
| 01:10.44 | BulletCatcher | in trunk |
| 01:10.58 | BulletCatcher | could be in branch, too |
| 01:10.59 | JeffM2501 | don't they already pick up the state from the tank? |
| 01:11.03 | JeffM2501 | dont' care about branch |
| 01:11.59 | BulletCatcher | Official clients obey the state, but cheaters may not. |
| 01:12.28 | JeffM2501 | I mean the shot created by the server has the state of the tank |
| 01:12.51 | BulletCatcher | goes to look at his code... |
| 01:13.13 | JeffM2501 | the only thing we get out of the msgShotBegin message is the playerID and the shotID |
| 01:13.25 | JeffM2501 | the server builds the firing info |
| 01:13.47 | JeffM2501 | if a cheater went and made his local shots not use the shot same shot info, the only shots that affects are the ones HE sees |
| 01:13.51 | JeffM2501 | not the ones others see |
| 01:14.00 | JeffM2501 | so it's not realy a cheat, just a way to screw himself up |
| 01:14.27 | JeffM2501 | this is all done in ShotBeginHandler::execute |
| 01:15.11 | brlcad | thought it was rebelchikorita for a sec |
| 01:15.12 | JeffM2501 | so basicly all the shot message is now is "fire my gun" |
| 01:15.22 | JeffM2501 | it has no other info |
| 01:16.09 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: she'd never ask that question ;) |
| 01:16.21 | brlcad | it was a very brief second |
| 01:17.03 | JeffM2501 | hopefully of the nano class |
| 01:17.06 | BulletCatcher | My apologies. I have been looking at branch for this, not trunk. I will assume that you are correct that it is not a problem in branch. |
| 01:17.19 | BulletCatcher | s/branch/trunk/ |
| 01:17.22 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher: it is a problem in branch ;) |
| 01:17.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah trunk redid shots |
| 01:17.29 | JeffM2501 | somewhat |
| 01:17.33 | JeffM2501 | it needs to do more to shots |
| 01:24.21 | donny_baker | wonders what server Rebel was talking about... but it certainly wasn't mine :P |
| 01:24.40 | JeffM2501 | missilewar |
| 01:24.49 | donny_baker | balmes winny |
| 01:24.49 | JeffM2501 | he posted on bzbb about it |
| 01:24.52 | JeffM2501 | but I removed it |
| 01:25.05 | whodaman- | lol |
| 01:25.11 | Winny | yeah, he was talking about my server |
| 01:25.18 | Winny | which sort of made me think about getting more admins again |
| 01:30.05 | *** join/#bzflag mayB (n=mayur@c-67-191-238-17.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 01:32.06 | donny_baker | wiki just went over 500,000 page views yesterday... There have been a total of 502,313 page views |
| 01:32.24 | Winny | ~donny_baker++ |
| 01:36.07 | donny_baker | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Special:Statistics ... if anyone is interested |
| 01:39.36 | JeffM2501 | donny_baker: 22,000 of those were me correcting spelling errors ;) |
| 01:40.02 | donny_baker | :P |
| 01:40.15 | donny_baker | looks for a spellchecker plug-in :) |
| 01:40.23 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:40.23 | JeffM2501 | my browser has one |
| 01:40.39 | donny_baker | mine too... or mine would be double yours |
| 01:40.54 | brlcad | interesting that more than 1/5th are for the downloads page |
| 01:41.19 | Winny | brlcad: the main page shoots right to the wiki's download page |
| 01:41.27 | brlcad | should really make sure that page is clear and articulate |
| 01:41.47 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 01:41.47 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 01:41.50 | Winny | Also working on the new website might be good ;) |
| 01:41.52 | JeffM2501 | brlcad: that is linked from the main page |
| 01:42.00 | JeffM2501 | ahh Winny beat me |
| 01:42.13 | Winny | I win for once! \o/ |
| 01:42.34 | JeffM2501 | gotta know when to hold em.. know when to fold em. |
| 01:43.42 | TD-Linux | why does BZFlag 2.0.x SVN compile with -march=prescott? |
| 01:44.06 | TD-Linux | that means the resulting binary won't work on anything less than a p4 |
| 01:45.25 | whodaman- | I don't get how this email string is rejected "->[phago]<-" |
| 01:45.47 | brlcad | really needs to consolidate all the drupal installs.. |
| 01:46.07 | Winny | whodaman-: too many non-alpha numerical characters, probably |
| 01:46.16 | brlcad | there are now like six or seven full installs |
| 01:46.25 | JeffM2501 | anyone else here have any comments on the match mangement system proposal? http://my.bzflag.org/w/Match_Management_System |
| 01:46.41 | Winny | brlcad: you should delete the one for the original site I was working on.. it's 5.1 :/ |
| 01:46.58 | whodaman- | JeffM2501, let me browse it once more. |
| 01:47.09 | Winny | JeffM2501: I like it |
| 01:48.32 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: I'm about to run out, but you don't have any objection to a bump in the 2.0 API version right? |
| 01:48.34 | DTRemenak | TD-Linux: it builds with -march=$host_cpu. you may want to override it if you are building for distribution |
| 01:48.49 | L4m3r | I'd like to add the shot ID to the shotFired event |
| 01:48.50 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: other then its' dead. whatever |
| 01:49.02 | TD-Linux | DTRemenak, aah ok, nice :) |
| 01:49.16 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: just one member for a class :P |
| 01:49.25 | JeffM2501 | dead branch ;) |
| 01:49.27 | JeffM2501 | but yeah I don't care |
| 01:49.32 | TD-Linux | actually on my platform (c2d) optimizing for pentium 3 is faster |
| 01:49.41 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: but you have to fix a bug in trunk to make up for it |
| 01:49.44 | TD-Linux | waits for GCC 4.3 with core2 optimization |
| 01:49.45 | JeffM2501 | eye for an eye |
| 01:49.55 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: I can just make the same change in trunk ;) |
| 01:50.01 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: that is not a bug fix |
| 01:50.04 | JeffM2501 | you must fix a real bug |
| 01:50.08 | TD-Linux | I want to see if BZFlag is finally playable for me |
| 01:50.23 | TD-Linux | and 2.1 segfaults |
| 01:50.25 | JeffM2501 | that's the deal ;) |
| 01:50.36 | brlcad | Winny: that was removed a long time ago |
| 01:50.44 | L4m3r | I guess I'll decide if it's worth the effort when I get back from dinner :P |
| 01:50.48 | Winny | brlcad: ahh :) |
| 01:52.00 | TD-Linux | hmm it's more playable now than before |
| 01:52.14 | TD-Linux | something is still killing performance every few seconds |
| 01:52.28 | TD-Linux | ack it's strigi, /me must kill |
| 01:53.22 | TD-Linux | strigi refuses to die o.O |
| 01:54.36 | TD-Linux | <3 kill -9 |
| 01:56.21 | brlcad | Winny: so .. part of me wants to install 6.1 in anticipation of ldap being added within a few months |
| 01:56.35 | brlcad | but if the site is to go live within a few weeks, then it should be 5.7 |
| 01:56.46 | Winny | You're the drupal expert, not me :) |
| 01:56.52 | brlcad | just thinking out loud |
| 01:57.49 | Winny | I still need to do the IE 6 fixes, as well as find someone/some people to work on the commit/forum post/ stats blocks |
| 01:58.21 | TD-Linux | weird I figured out the problem |
| 01:58.34 | TD-Linux | shadows cut my framerate by 1/3... |
| 01:58.47 | TD-Linux | I'm going to guess the stipple effect is done in software on my carde |
| 01:58.49 | JeffM2501 | they on stencil or stipple? |
| 01:58.52 | JeffM2501 | what card? |
| 01:59.08 | TD-Linux | quadro fx 570M (aka geforce 8600GT) |
| 01:59.21 | JeffM2501 | hmm I'd think that would stipple quite well |
| 01:59.26 | JeffM2501 | try stencil |
| 01:59.26 | TD-Linux | I would too |
| 01:59.43 | JeffM2501 | I guess no workstation apps stipple anymore.. WHOOT |
| 02:01.02 | TD-Linux | hmm weirdness |
| 02:01.19 | TD-Linux | oh well |
| 02:01.27 | TD-Linux | stipple shadows are ugly anyway :> |
| 02:01.54 | TD-Linux | though better than stencil on most maps because they overlap... |
| 02:05.15 | Winny | ooh.. mythbuster is on |
| 02:05.21 | Winny | waddles to TV |
| 02:06.09 | BulletCatcher | JeffM2501: Minor suggestion for Match_Management_System: at the end, also send scores to the "All" chat channel so players can still see the results after the reset. That may eliminate the need for _matchResetTime. |
| 02:06.36 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher: it's going to do that at the end anyway |
| 02:06.44 | JeffM2501 | didn't I say that in the example timeline? |
| 02:08.14 | BulletCatcher | If that's what "report the results" means. It wasn't clear to me. |
| 02:08.45 | BulletCatcher | I was thinking in the context of the report channel. |
| 02:15.38 | JeffM2501 | I'll make it clearer |
| 02:19.02 | BulletCatcher | Okay. I withdraw the suggestion that _matchResetTime may be unnecessary. It will allow players to confirm that the reported scores are the same as the scores they see in the game. |
| 02:19.21 | JeffM2501 | mostly it's also for chat |
| 02:19.25 | JeffM2501 | like "good game" and the like |
| 02:19.58 | BulletCatcher | I assumed the post-game chat could continue after the reset. |
| 02:20.04 | CBG | Nobody says "good game". "gg",maybe. More often it'll be something else entirely. |
| 02:20.06 | JeffM2501 | it can if you wish |
| 02:20.19 | JeffM2501 | /match end will stop the postgame |
| 02:20.41 | JeffM2501 | CBG: that's what I meant, not those words exactly |
| 02:20.55 | JeffM2501 | BulletCatcher: the server owner can set the time to 0 if they want |
| 02:22.08 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 02:37.16 | whodaman- | Never gonna give you up! Never gonna let you down! |
| 02:37.32 | whodaman- | I was just rickrolled :( |
| 02:46.34 | JeffM2501 | and why did you feel the need to share? |
| 02:47.42 | whodaman- | just had to :p |
| 02:49.43 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 02:55.40 | JeffM2501 | donny_baker: you arround? |
| 03:00.46 | *** join/#bzflag delusional_ (n=delusion@pool-151-201-224-149.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:04.50 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude-@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) |
| 03:04.52 | jude- | hello all |
| 03:05.38 | *** part/#bzflag mayB (n=mayur@c-67-191-238-17.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 03:05.56 | JeffM2501 | word UP! |
| 03:06.13 | whodaman- | sup jude- |
| 03:06.47 | JeffM2501 | packs up for his trip to the bank to steal the rest of the bzflag money! |
| 03:07.11 | jude- | lol |
| 03:07.21 | jude- | for shirts? |
| 03:07.49 | JeffM2501 | shirs are paid for |
| 03:07.54 | BulletCatcher | JeffM2501: That's one way to ensure the non-profit status... |
| 03:07.57 | JeffM2501 | but yeah the rembursment |
| 03:08.22 | jude- | right |
| 03:08.39 | JeffM2501 | five hundred bzflag dollars |
| 03:08.58 | jude- | pretty steep |
| 03:09.07 | JeffM2501 | that wasn't even the full order |
| 03:09.12 | JeffM2501 | I paid over 600 |
| 03:09.35 | jude- | planning on Google reimbursing you this summer? |
| 03:09.48 | JeffM2501 | naw, I got the rest |
| 03:09.53 | JeffM2501 | it's in paypall |
| 03:10.09 | JeffM2501 | I just need to paymyself like 75ish and I'm good |
| 03:11.19 | JeffM2501 | bbl |
| 03:13.03 | *** join/#bzflag uso (n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 03:15.31 | jude- | ~seen Lukstr |
| 03:15.35 | ibot | lukstr <n=lukstr@bas8-london14-1279317038.dsl.bell.ca> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 8h 45m 10s ago, saying: 'afternoon all'. |
| 03:23.03 | *** join/#bzflag uso (n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 03:28.27 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 03:28.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 03:55.15 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 03:57.39 | *** join/#bzflag AHA (n=aha@unaffiliated/aha) |
| 04:00.03 | brlcad | JeffM2501: like that ;) |
| 04:00.08 | brlcad | er, this |
| 04:00.11 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 04:00.16 | JeffM2501 | I was on and off |
| 04:00.18 | JeffM2501 | we'll see |
| 04:00.22 | brlcad | nods |
| 04:00.42 | L4m3r | looks at BUGS and winces |
| 04:01.17 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: do it! ;) |
| 04:01.27 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: there is also SF bugs, I went and cleaned them up |
| 04:01.28 | JeffM2501 | a LOT |
| 04:01.44 | JeffM2501 | there are less then 100 |
| 04:06.34 | L4m3r | "time limiter does not take jumping into consideration when holding Agility" |
| 04:06.56 | L4m3r | should it? I don't think the tank should slow down mid-jump |
| 04:08.34 | JeffM2501 | no it should not |
| 04:08.48 | JeffM2501 | agility affects your tank not gravity :) |
| 04:08.57 | JeffM2501 | many of them you can just close |
| 04:09.04 | L4m3r | not even gravity |
| 04:09.10 | L4m3r | more like inertia |
| 04:09.40 | L4m3r | ...but that doesn't count as fixing a bug :P |
| 04:09.54 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 04:09.58 | JeffM2501 | that counts as closing one |
| 04:10.09 | JeffM2501 | I closed like nearly 60 bugs but only fixed 4 or 5 |
| 04:10.30 | JeffM2501 | I still like the one that I had to write in "Voodoo cards are no longer supported" |
| 04:11.31 | L4m3r | this is in BUGS |
| 04:11.37 | L4m3r | haven't tried sf yet |
| 04:12.12 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 04:12.17 | JeffM2501 | then just yank it |
| 04:12.22 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 04:12.27 | JeffM2501 | SF has some easy ones I didn't want to do ;) |
| 04:12.36 | L4m3r | I'm gonna test it in trunk just to be sure |
| 04:19.24 | JeffM2501 | thinks there may be a fire in the disco.. or maybe a fire in the taco-bell |
| 04:21.37 | *** join/#bzflag Skater (n=Gabe@cpe-069-134-227-087.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 04:22.01 | Skater | blast isn't here? :( |
| 04:22.14 | blast007 | need something? |
| 04:22.19 | Skater | Ahh |
| 04:22.23 | Skater | Ride told me to come to you |
| 04:22.29 | blast007 | ok? |
| 04:22.34 | Skater | Becaue when I attempt to join your server |
| 04:22.37 | Skater | Because* |
| 04:22.43 | Skater | "Winter Park" |
| 04:22.51 | Skater | It just gets stuck on 'Trying..." |
| 04:23.14 | jude- | Skater: does it eventually give some sort of error? |
| 04:23.16 | JeffM2501 | means you can't connect |
| 04:23.16 | blast007 | do other servers work? |
| 04:23.35 | Skater | Yes, other servers work. |
| 04:23.44 | Skater | jude - it doe not give an error. |
| 04:23.44 | JeffM2501 | bets it is a wall of fire |
| 04:23.49 | Skater | Aww :( |
| 04:23.56 | Skater | does* |
| 04:24.05 | Skater | I hate messing with my firewall. |
| 04:24.06 | blast007 | I see no record of your IP in my log |
| 04:24.14 | blast007 | just turn the firewall off quick |
| 04:24.15 | Skater | I have never joined your servers before. |
| 04:24.28 | blast007 | you can also try joining a bzexcess one |
| 04:24.31 | blast007 | different hostname |
| 04:24.34 | blast007 | same server |
| 04:24.43 | Skater | I'll try firewall first ;) |
| 04:24.46 | blast007 | k |
| 04:26.35 | jude- | JeffM2501: if it was the firewall, then wouldn't BZFlag have mentioned an error? |
| 04:26.44 | JeffM2501 | jude-: nope |
| 04:26.57 | JeffM2501 | we just try to open the socket and wait |
| 04:27.05 | jude- | I see |
| 04:27.08 | JeffM2501 | so if the socket was opened, but the traffic blocked... |
| 04:27.14 | JeffM2501 | eventualy it'd timeout |
| 04:27.36 | jude- | wouldn't it then mention an error? |
| 04:27.53 | JeffM2501 | if he waited that long ;) |
| 04:27.53 | jude- | it does on my machine if the port is blocked |
| 04:28.07 | JeffM2501 | difrent firewalls may do different things ;) |
| 04:28.22 | jude- | that may be it |
| 04:28.26 | jude- | uses ipchains |
| 04:28.55 | JeffM2501 | not everyone use leeeenox ;) |
| 04:29.08 | jude- | nope |
| 04:29.18 | Skater | Yeah, I'm impatient |
| 04:29.35 | JeffM2501 | and probably on windows |
| 04:29.36 | blast007 | Skater: didn't work? |
| 04:37.46 | L4m3r | why does the tank in 2.1 drive like an old rear wheel drive cadillac with under-inflated tires? :\ |
| 04:37.56 | L4m3r | er, 2.99 |
| 04:37.57 | *** join/#bzflag Archangel_13 (n=kevin@207-195-34-124.estv.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 04:38.17 | JeffM2501 | acceleration is on by defaul |
| 04:38.18 | JeffM2501 | t |
| 04:38.28 | L4m3r | it's pretty heavy |
| 04:39.24 | JeffM2501 | I do not know what the default is |
| 04:54.46 | Skater | Problem solved - thanks blast ;) |
| 04:59.22 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03l4m3rthanyou * r16775 10/trunk/bzflag/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Jumping with Agility is not a bug. |
| 04:59.39 | L4m3r | er |
| 04:59.41 | L4m3r | crap |
| 04:59.44 | L4m3r | that's not right |
| 04:59.46 | blast007 | lol |
| 05:01.12 | blast007 | put in your spawn-wait thingy there too by accident? |
| 05:01.19 | L4m3r | apparently |
| 05:01.22 | L4m3r | but it wasn't finished |
| 05:01.31 | L4m3r | I could have sworn that was on the other system |
| 05:01.37 | blast007 | know how revert it? |
| 05:01.53 | L4m3r | is there an automatic way to do it? |
| 05:02.15 | blast007 | well, I use TortoiseSVN. do you as well? |
| 05:02.19 | L4m3r | no |
| 05:02.29 | L4m3r | I know how to revert locally |
| 05:03.08 | blast007 | k, not sure how to do it with the CLI stuff |
| 05:03.27 | blast007 | might be as sumple as doing an 'svn update -r xxxx path/to/file' |
| 05:03.28 | blast007 | for each one |
| 05:03.31 | blast007 | and then commiting |
| 05:03.36 | L4m3r | from the documentation it seems that I just need to get the old files and re-commit, yeah |
| 05:08.10 | brlcad | L4m3r: svn update -r HEAD:16774 |
| 05:08.13 | brlcad | iirc |
| 05:08.23 | L4m3r | eh? |
| 05:08.37 | L4m3r | I've got the files isolated now, just a minute more |
| 05:08.55 | brlcad | that'll merge in updates from head to 16774, and let you revert with just two commands (update then commit) |
| 05:09.14 | blast007 | brlcad: the BUGS change he made was valid though |
| 05:09.35 | blast007 | so I guess three commands would have worked |
| 05:11.57 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03l4m3rthanyou * r16776 10/trunk/bzflag/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Whoops. that last commit took more than I intended. Reverting most of r16775. |
| 05:13.01 | brlcad | yeah, but just as easy to undo all, then svn revert the one file |
| 05:13.31 | L4m3r | ~cluebat me |
| 05:13.31 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps l4m3r. |
| 05:14.17 | L4m3r | I really should learn to break off separate repos when I don't finish a change |
| 05:14.50 | blast007 | L4m3r: or 'svn diff' before you commit ;) |
| 05:15.15 | L4m3r | or commit single files, in the case of one-file changes :P |
| 05:15.27 | brlcad | yup |
| 05:15.48 | brlcad | almost always has dozens of uncommitted files in a given checkout dir (and a half-dozen checkout dirs) |
| 05:25.27 | jude- | will be back tomorrow |
| 05:58.09 | L4m3r | grins |
| 05:58.14 | L4m3r | "replay server classification for server list is a hack" |
| 05:58.30 | L4m3r | And how is that special? :P |
| 05:58.31 | JeffM2501 | add a bit for it |
| 05:59.03 | L4m3r | half of the game's features are hacks |
| 05:59.06 | L4m3r | :P |
| 06:00.37 | L4m3r | oh wow, but that is very nasty |
| 06:00.39 | L4m3r | lol |
| 06:01.05 | JeffM2501 | what does it do? |
| 06:01.41 | L4m3r | checks obs and player max |
| 06:01.48 | JeffM2501 | ewww |
| 06:01.51 | JeffM2501 | add a bit ;) |
| 06:01.59 | L4m3r | I didn't say I was gonna fix it |
| 06:02.06 | L4m3r | I just thought the summary was funny |
| 06:02.10 | JeffM2501 | bit bit bit bit bit bit bit ;) |
| 06:02.15 | JeffM2501 | jooo can do it!!! |
| 06:02.35 | L4m3r | I actually forgot, I have another bug I had slated to fix because thump is busy this weekend |
| 06:02.46 | L4m3r | just have to make sure it's in 2.99 |
| 06:02.58 | JeffM2501 | nothing says you can't fix 2 ;) |
| 06:03.15 | L4m3r | I have a bunch of plugins to bust out first :P |
| 06:08.20 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@209-33-233-142.dsl.infowest.net) |
| 06:08.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 06:38.10 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (n=davidsan@207-177-229-17.dsl.redshift.com) |
| 06:43.04 | *** part/#bzflag BulletCatcher (n=bc@unaffiliated/bulletcatcher) |
| 06:44.41 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 06:44.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
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| 08:25.43 | donny_baker | brlcad: google "download bzflag" and the wiki page is the first hit... guess that is why it is the #1 viewed page |
| 09:01.18 | brlcad | donny_baker: also a good point made -- for everyone that hits up bzflag.org and clicks "download" on the left... |
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| 09:21.48 | utrrrongeeb | Does today's anyone-awake have any experience with BZFlag over dial-up internet? |
| 10:18.10 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (n=middle@cl-86-125-183-139.cablelink.mures.rdsnet.ro) |
| 10:41.25 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@87-194-205-16.bethere.co.uk) |
| 10:41.43 | Teppic | Power Book G4, Intel or PPC? |
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| 12:38.26 | *** join/#bzflag ki (n=tit@cpc1-flee1-0-0-cust387.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:38.32 | ki | hi bzflag |
| 12:38.39 | ki | whats this channel for# |
| 12:49.31 | spldart | It's for development talk on bzflag. There is also technical support provided for bzflag as well. |
| 12:50.01 | spldart | I imagine there will be alot of activity with the upcoming Google Summer of Code |
| 12:54.22 | ki | okay |
| 12:54.32 | ki | so hows the bzflag going? |
| 12:55.44 | spldart | It's getting exciting. The dev's have been kinda prepping the upcoming release code so that they can have the apprentices start work on upgrades and features.. Prolly on trunk code which prolyy still has a few months or more before it's ready to release... But that's my opinion |
| 12:56.00 | spldart | It's probably gonna be slow today though since it's easter and all. |
| 12:56.09 | ki | yeah |
| 12:56.13 | ki | are you a developer |
| 12:56.40 | spldart | No... more like an assistant evil minion |
| 12:57.55 | ki | hah |
| 12:58.06 | ki | looking pretty good from the links in topic |
| 13:00.05 | ki | whens it gonna be out then? |
| 13:00.29 | spldart | The next major release? The Dev's still say it will be ready when it's ready hehe |
| 13:02.21 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang_cgi (n=586c8d1b@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 13:02.42 | ki | fair enough |
| 13:03.09 | spldart | Sry I don't have a more precise answer on that :-/ |
| 13:04.20 | ki | no worries bro |
| 13:04.27 | spldart | Things are faster in the noon to evening on weekdays and I expect it will pick up a bit this afternoon even thought it will be less than normal... You could try asking the release question again then and see what you get. |
| 13:04.53 | spldart | Your in the U.S. I assume |
| 13:05.35 | ki | uk |
| 13:06.37 | spldart | Oh hehe. There are some other from uk and the rest of europe in here @ times too :) Umm.. try 5 to 7 hours... Better chance of actually finding a dev. But no promises |
| 13:07.09 | ki | alright |
| 13:07.15 | ki | you US? |
| 13:07.36 | spldart | Yep |
| 13:11.35 | *** join/#bzflag EmoNemo (n=Gigi@unaffiliated/emonemo) |
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| 15:30.52 | donny_baker | winny ++ |
| 15:30.57 | donny_baker | ~winny++ |
| 15:30.59 | donny_baker | :P |
| 15:31.09 | Winny | ~donny_baker++ |
| 15:33.15 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (i=QuantumB@72.190.48.153) |
| 15:33.54 | *** join/#bzflag laserball31 (n=laserbal@c-71-59-113-232.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 15:34.02 | laserball31 | brlcad? |
| 15:34.22 | Winny | Are you sure one of us can't help also? |
| 15:34.35 | laserball31 | i was just about to say: anyone? |
| 15:34.38 | spldart | brl has been quiet so far |
| 15:34.42 | laserball31 | o |
| 15:34.49 | spldart | Just about all dev's are quiet |
| 15:34.53 | spldart | methinks |
| 15:35.20 | laserball31 | well i have little problem with radar |
| 15:35.32 | whodaman- | Press Q |
| 15:35.42 | spldart | hehe |
| 15:36.03 | laserball31 | flags show up as lines and sometimes they dont show up as all, but sometimes they're normal |
| 15:36.15 | laserball31 | flags show up as lines and sometimes they dont show up at* all, but sometimes they're normal |
| 15:36.21 | spldart | but it used to work? |
| 15:36.24 | laserball31 | yes |
| 15:36.29 | blast007 | laserball31: get a screenshot |
| 15:36.30 | spldart | client ver and os? |
| 15:36.33 | blast007 | or several |
| 15:36.39 | laserball31 | ok |
| 15:36.40 | spldart | Yay screenies |
| 15:36.42 | Winny | sounds like driver issues, or something |
| 15:36.50 | laserball31 | it worked before |
| 15:36.55 | spldart | In that case card type might be helpful |
| 15:37.08 | blast007 | "before" what? |
| 15:37.09 | laserball31 | i upgraded to fedora 8, still there |
| 15:37.17 | laserball31 | it worked in part of fedora 7 |
| 15:37.21 | spldart | Just yesterday I had my nvidia driver bunked just cuz I got some mesa packages |
| 15:37.30 | spldart | my gl.h got screwed |
| 15:37.40 | blast007 | laserball31: make sure you have the latest video driver |
| 15:37.41 | laserball31 | ill get a screenshot |
| 15:37.57 | laserball31 | where is the latest video driver for fedora 8 linux? |
| 15:38.09 | spldart | card? |
| 15:38.13 | spldart | did you mention? |
| 15:38.16 | laserball31 | no |
| 15:38.17 | laserball31 | driver |
| 15:38.28 | spldart | not the intent of my query |
| 15:38.32 | spldart | n/m |
| 15:38.44 | laserball31 | my version is .10 |
| 15:38.51 | laserball31 | it worked fine in .8 |
| 15:38.57 | laserball31 | of bzflag |
| 15:39.44 | laserball31 | I get screenshot |
| 15:39.50 | laserball31 | tell me one of your emails |
| 15:39.57 | Winny | upload it somewhere |
| 15:39.58 | laserball31 | ill send it to you |
| 15:40.13 | laserball31 | ok hold... |
| 15:40.16 | Winny | http://tinypic.com/ |
| 15:40.22 | spldart | blast007 asked about your video driver, you asked where the latest video driver for fedora is, but are we talking ATI, NVid, or what. Just curious and it could help someone troubleshoot |
| 15:42.40 | laserball31 | o |
| 15:43.24 | laserball31 | ok hold |
| 15:43.27 | laserball31 | at tinypic |
| 15:44.47 | laserball31 | uploading |
| 15:44.52 | laserball31 | at tinypic.com |
| 15:45.16 | laserball31 | uploaded |
| 15:45.16 | laserball31 | go check it out |
| 15:45.16 | Winny | link us... |
| 15:47.42 | laserball31 | hold |
| 15:47.50 | spldart | hehehe |
| 15:48.11 | laserball31 | http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6ozin6&s=3 |
| 15:48.45 | laserball31 | look at radar |
| 15:48.48 | laserball31 | zoom in |
| 15:48.59 | laserball31 | white lines are flags |
| 15:49.00 | laserball31 | some dont show |
| 15:49.57 | laserball31 | did you see it? |
| 15:50.08 | Winny | video card drivers |
| 15:50.17 | laserball31 | oh |
| 15:50.27 | laserball31 | where can i install the latest? |
| 15:50.37 | Winny | What card do you have |
| 15:51.08 | laserball31 | im on an Ibm thinkpaf |
| 15:51.11 | laserball31 | im on an Ibm thinkpad* |
| 15:51.22 | laserball31 | Intel probably |
| 15:51.29 | laserball31 | Centrino |
| 15:51.59 | spldart | I don't know how similar fedora is to the linux I'm used to but lspci can tell you what hardware is on the bus.. You may need to update it first |
| 15:52.03 | Winny | Intel integrated? Probably on intel's site |
| 15:52.13 | laserball31 | No centrino |
| 15:52.25 | laserball31 | Fedora IS linux |
| 15:52.58 | laserball31 | Its intel centrino mobile technology |
| 15:53.23 | Winny | That would be the processor |
| 15:53.29 | laserball31 | o |
| 15:53.31 | spldart | I know |
| 15:53.37 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-218-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 15:53.47 | spldart | But it's a different distro that I'm familiar with |
| 15:54.07 | laserball31 | i can do .exe (executables) on linux |
| 15:54.13 | laserball31 | wine emulator |
| 15:54.14 | spldart | If your not sure what gpu is in your thinkpad you might wanna run lspci and get the info on it |
| 15:54.22 | Winny | You can't do that for drivers |
| 15:54.32 | spldart | Just to id his gpu |
| 15:54.38 | laserball31 | I think |
| 15:54.39 | laserball31 | wait |
| 15:54.52 | laserball31 | i think i can upgrade my kernal |
| 15:54.57 | laserball31 | for linux |
| 15:55.11 | laserball31 | that may fix my video drivers |
| 15:55.13 | Winny | kernel != drivers |
| 15:55.27 | laserball31 | o |
| 15:55.33 | laserball31 | 1 problem |
| 15:55.35 | JeffM | what card? |
| 15:55.38 | spldart | LOL |
| 15:55.38 | laserball31 | whats the pakage |
| 15:55.43 | *** part/#bzflag tomaw (i=tom@freenode/staff/tomaw) |
| 15:55.47 | spldart | ibm thinkpad jeff |
| 15:55.48 | spldart | fedora |
| 15:55.55 | JeffM | what chipset? |
| 15:56.02 | spldart | that's what I'm trying to get at hehe |
| 15:56.11 | laserball31 | no, i need my kernel package |
| 15:56.20 | spldart | I'm bowing out now |
| 15:56.22 | JeffM | it's intel onboard then |
| 15:56.33 | laserball31 | wait |
| 15:56.40 | laserball31 | i can do a rpm -q -a kernel |
| 15:56.40 | JeffM | centrino is just an intel brand name |
| 15:56.48 | laserball31 | i got it! |
| 15:57.08 | JeffM | the intel drivers are usualy prety up to date in packages |
| 15:57.11 | JeffM | but they do suck |
| 15:57.12 | JeffM | big time |
| 15:57.23 | laserball31 | kernel-2.6.23.1-42.fc8 |
| 15:57.23 | donny_baker | JeffM: i'm around now :P |
| 15:57.39 | laserball31 | im updating it |
| 15:57.39 | spldart | In case you haven't seen Jeff he has problems with odd looking flags http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6ozin6&s=3 |
| 15:57.46 | JeffM | donny_baker: is there a way to setup a wiki section that just the mentors of SoC can see and edit? |
| 15:58.17 | laserball31 | im doing an update kernel |
| 15:58.19 | JeffM | yeah that'd be crap intel |
| 15:58.26 | JeffM | laserball31: I highly doubt that will fix anything |
| 15:58.36 | JeffM | but it probably won't hurt you ether |
| 15:59.14 | donny_baker | JeffM: let me think on that... can do it with page permissions but that would be messy fast |
| 15:59.16 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 15:59.27 | donny_baker | there may be an extension that lets us do that |
| 15:59.28 | laserball31 | Jeff |
| 15:59.37 | laserball31 | the problem is i have odd locking flags. |
| 15:59.38 | JeffM | laser |
| 15:59.41 | JeffM | laserball31: I know |
| 15:59.43 | JeffM | I can read |
| 15:59.48 | JeffM | you have bad video drivers |
| 15:59.54 | laserball31 | ok |
| 15:59.58 | *** join/#bzflag torghul (n=chatzill@78.175.223.119) |
| 15:59.58 | JeffM | they are not drawing openGL correctly |
| 16:00.03 | JeffM | you want to see if you can get updated ones |
| 16:00.10 | JeffM | they are probably NOT in a package |
| 16:00.20 | laserball31 | Repository.....? |
| 16:00.25 | JeffM | nope |
| 16:00.25 | blast007 | intel's site |
| 16:00.32 | blast007 | they DO have linux drivers typically |
| 16:00.33 | JeffM | yeah you get them directly from intel |
| 16:00.38 | JeffM | and you install them |
| 16:00.39 | blast007 | you need to find out the EXACT chipset you have |
| 16:00.39 | laserball31 | ok |
| 16:00.43 | blast007 | you can't just guess |
| 16:00.57 | laserball31 | i call my dad and ask him. He had this thing first |
| 16:01.04 | laserball31 | brb |
| 16:01.08 | JeffM | that is probably a very smart move |
| 16:04.22 | laserball31 | lspci |
| 16:04.26 | laserball31 | ok |
| 16:05.42 | laserball31 | shows a bunch of stuff |
| 16:06.10 | JeffM | are you sure linux is the OS you should be running? |
| 16:07.33 | laserball31 | i had it fine before!!! |
| 16:07.55 | Winny | mhmm, then you upgraded to fedora 8? |
| 16:08.04 | laserball31 | brb |
| 16:08.40 | JeffM | you just don't seem to be putting in the effort to understand how it works. |
| 16:08.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Manu] by ChanServ |
| 16:09.33 | JeffM | and I don't think we want to put any more effort into helping cheaters |
| 16:10.04 | ruskie | I thought I recognized that callsign... |
| 16:10.52 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-141-27.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:10.54 | jftsang | hello |
| 16:10.57 | Winny | hi |
| 16:11.26 | jftsang | is there any way whatsoever of "making new flags" in the game, eg /flagcreate WG to create another WG on the map? |
| 16:11.32 | jftsang | or /flag remove |
| 16:11.44 | Winny | don't think so |
| 16:11.46 | think_tank | negative |
| 16:11.47 | jftsang | through plugins, is this possible in 2.0? |
| 16:11.52 | spldart | hehe |
| 16:12.45 | JeffM | jftsang: not at this time |
| 16:13.01 | JeffM | the flag ID list is fixed |
| 16:14.27 | JeffM | that is the primary reason we would like to move to a more generic object system, where we can just add flags to the global object list and give them new GUIDs |
| 16:26.39 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-177-176-191.natsoe.res.rr.com) |
| 16:26.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
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| 16:57.53 | jftsang | Does anybody here have a copy of the BZW for Emerald Mosque? |
| 16:59.37 | DTRemenak | it's not a single bzw |
| 17:00.23 | DTRemenak | but yes, I have the files for it |
| 17:02.47 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16777 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/MXpr.h src/bzflag/CommandsImplementation.cxx): we don't really need all this, it's just complexity that nobody uses. bzflag is a video game, not a calculator. |
| 17:04.40 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16778 10/trunk/bzflag/include/Makefile.am: better not bust the *nix build, someone might get upset |
| 17:11.36 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16779 10/trunk/bzflag/src/other/freetype/builds/win32/visualc/freetype.vcproj: VC8 warnings in fretype |
| 17:17.51 | spldart | Is there a bug in branch where a score/kill ratio cannot exceed 70%. In particular a Rabbit Chase map. |
| 17:26.22 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=me1@pool-71-245-235-48.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:32.37 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 17:32.47 | brlcad | DTRemenak: I don't object (or care), but that was the joke/point -- it's was an embedded easter-egg app, not because anyone actually thought we needed a calculator |
| 17:33.25 | *** join/#bzflag bz36 (n=62e29fa2@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:36.01 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-0-0-cust307.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:36.44 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=48c8589a@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:41.11 | jftsang | DTRemenak, could you send them to me please? |
| 17:41.42 | spldart | just did a build after upping the code to 16779 and tried a build in vc8 and client failed to build... yesterday client built fine. Have linux build running right now too but no news on it yet... Does 3>c:\bzflag\bzflag\src\bzflag\commandsimplementation.cxx(38) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'MXpr.h': No such file or directory help? |
| 17:43.43 | spldart | forgot to enable debug in the still running linux build...hrm |
| 17:43.45 | jftsang | it means it can't find your MXpr.h, whatever that is |
| 17:43.52 | spldart | right |
| 17:44.20 | jftsang | if it's in an external lib such as libcURL, you need to tell VC to include it |
| 17:44.30 | jftsang | well, where to look |
| 17:44.47 | spldart | Did that change from yesterday? I haven't even rebooted since my last successful build |
| 17:44.48 | spldart | hrm |
| 17:45.33 | spldart | ah.. has something to do with the calculator dtr killed |
| 17:45.41 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 17:45.49 | spldart | I got a feeling linux isn't gonna complain |
| 17:47.25 | bryjen | yes it does |
| 17:48.23 | me1 | svn up tells me that someone deleted MXpr.h |
| 17:49.21 | spldart | and like clockwork I'm getting errors in linux |
| 17:49.36 | bryjen | clocks spldart |
| 17:49.47 | spldart | OUCH |
| 17:50.11 | spldart | so MXpr.j got deleted but the code still calls it? |
| 17:50.18 | bryjen | i'm getting there. my SF password has apparently expired :/ |
| 17:50.31 | spldart | hehe sry no rush |
| 17:50.36 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r16780 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/CommandsImplementation.cxx: missed one |
| 17:51.42 | bryjen | SceneRenderer.cxx:52: warning: comparison of unsigned expression >= 0 is always true |
| 17:53.32 | bryjen | i'm guessing size_t is unsigned?? and wondering why a string compare function is defined in SceneRenderer.cxx ... |
| 17:53.39 | jftsang | does anyone else have trouble with bzfs.vcproj? |
| 17:54.12 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 17:54.20 | jftsang | on line 115 |
| 17:54.54 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 17:56.58 | JeffM | spldart: you need to rerun autogen |
| 17:57.10 | spldart | I did... saw the .am |
| 17:57.34 | JeffM | and you still get the error |
| 17:57.46 | spldart | but VC failed too on that mxpr.h or whateva |
| 17:57.54 | JeffM | ahh |
| 17:57.58 | JeffM | 7.1 or 8? |
| 17:58.02 | spldart | 8 |
| 17:58.13 | spldart | I noticed dtr did a commit reguarding it |
| 17:58.15 | JeffM | DTRemenak: has no windows love :( |
| 17:58.17 | spldart | something about math |
| 17:58.19 | JeffM | yeah we don't need it |
| 17:58.27 | spldart | but the code still calls it right? |
| 17:58.34 | JeffM | I will look |
| 17:58.51 | JeffM | I'm guessing he didn't check everything in |
| 17:59.05 | spldart | ah |
| 17:59.24 | spldart | So I'm just being a little abnoxious/ quick on the draw testing ;-p |
| 17:59.39 | JeffM | nope |
| 17:59.45 | JeffM | you are doing exactly what you should be doing |
| 17:59.51 | spldart | kew |
| 17:59.52 | JeffM | calling devs on the mistakes they make :) |
| 18:00.35 | JeffM | I'm building now |
| 18:01.03 | bryjen | the header was still #included i just fixed that |
| 18:01.15 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:01.17 | spldart | ah |
| 18:01.22 | JeffM | a |
| 18:01.49 | JeffM | but what was the error in the sise_t and stringcmp? |
| 18:01.59 | JeffM | that sounds like something I did when I was cleaning warnings |
| 18:02.08 | JeffM | and you are right, we probalby don't need that code there |
| 18:02.25 | *** join/#bzflag snerfu (n=brian@pdpc/supporter/active/snerfu) |
| 18:03.00 | spldart | Oh... sry DTR,.. I saw your commit 16777 regarding MXpr.h and assumed that might be the break point... |
| 18:03.46 | JeffM | it was |
| 18:03.58 | spldart | :-x |
| 18:04.35 | JeffM | jacks bryjen's cheeze |
| 18:04.36 | snerfu | Do you think bzflag would work on a 800x480 screen? the eeepc one? |
| 18:04.43 | JeffM | snerfu: yeah |
| 18:04.45 | whodaman- | Sure |
| 18:04.48 | snerfu | sweet |
| 18:04.49 | JeffM | we support downt o like 320x200 |
| 18:04.51 | whodaman- | Works great |
| 18:05.01 | whodaman- | even with full settings and all |
| 18:05.07 | JeffM | awww, I missed his commit |
| 18:05.54 | bryjen | prefers cheddar |
| 18:06.04 | JeffM | :) |
| 18:06.34 | delusional | Bzflag in 1-bit http://cbg.bzflag.org/images/billboards/jefenry_TI-83.png |
| 18:06.53 | delusional | YAY! to the beginning of a new match management system. |
| 18:07.14 | spldart | woah dude |
| 18:07.22 | ruskie | nice |
| 18:07.30 | JeffM | delusional: does it sound ok? |
| 18:07.37 | JeffM | spldart: it's just art ;) |
| 18:07.40 | whodaman- | Just a picture on the TI |
| 18:07.42 | spldart | :-D |
| 18:07.50 | spldart | I know... It's great though |
| 18:07.55 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-177-176-191.natsoe.res.rr.com) |
| 18:08.02 | spldart | Mofo right? |
| 18:08.02 | delusional | I suppose the output will be a text file appended at the end of each match? |
| 18:08.10 | delusional | jefenry made that. |
| 18:08.15 | JeffM | delusional: by default it will just send it to /report |
| 18:08.21 | JeffM | but there will be an API even for it |
| 18:08.32 | JeffM | so you can have a simple plugin do whatever you want |
| 18:08.36 | delusional | api for a text file? |
| 18:08.44 | JeffM | API for the end of match reporting |
| 18:08.57 | JeffM | and you can dump to a text file, or web page, or IRC, or whatever |
| 18:09.09 | JeffM | but by default it will only do a /report |
| 18:09.53 | delusional | I was thinking it should have a basic php page.... if you have matches, you want reporting... if you have reporting you want to share the results with the world. |
| 18:09.54 | Winny | JeffM: perhaps don't wipe the team scores until the next match starts, or do you already do that? |
| 18:10.01 | Winny | sometimes people forget the score before they need to enter it |
| 18:10.22 | JeffM | delusional: that can be done, but that will not be part of the basic features. |
| 18:10.30 | JeffM | Winny: they stay untill freeplay starts |
| 18:10.34 | Winny | k |
| 18:10.34 | JeffM | or the next match |
| 18:10.56 | JeffM | they are also echoed into chat |
| 18:11.00 | JeffM | so you can scroll up |
| 18:11.04 | Winny | ahh |
| 18:11.05 | JeffM | there is an "end game report" |
| 18:11.19 | JeffM | "blue wins. 5 to 2" kinda thing |
| 18:11.37 | delusional | One thing we changed in racetoseven was scorekeeping.. It ignores teams present at the start of a match, and just counts captures... that way if players leave or a team is vacated, there are no problems. |
| 18:11.47 | snerfu | it works, thats awesome. surprisingly smooth. |
| 18:11.58 | JeffM | delusional: at the match start it will reset the team scores |
| 18:13.22 | delusional | I think it should export matches to a standard text file.. and come with some basic utility for parsing those scores, and display on the interwebz. |
| 18:13.49 | JeffM | delusional: I don't mind if that is a standard plug-in but I don't think it should be what we do all the time |
| 18:14.38 | JeffM | if someone dosn't want the standard text file and we built that into the server, it becomes very hard to turn off |
| 18:14.51 | *** join/#bzflag jessecrowden (n=48585a8f@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:14.54 | JeffM | where if a standardised text file is in the plugin it becomes very easy to swapout |
| 18:15.16 | delusional | it's your aby |
| 18:15.20 | delusional | baby |
| 18:16.14 | JeffM | I understand what you want, and I don't mind putting in the hooks for it, but I don't think we should be buring web app specific stuff into the basic server |
| 18:17.05 | delusional | a seperate project on sourceforge, like the one GU still uses, five years later. |
| 18:17.31 | JeffM | no, I just mean a plugin, that we ship with the sourcetree |
| 18:17.35 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-177-176-191.natsoe.res.rr.com) |
| 18:17.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 18:17.36 | JeffM | we can maintain it too |
| 18:17.41 | JeffM | that's fine |
| 18:17.47 | JeffM | webReport ;) |
| 18:17.55 | delusional | Yeah, is all good. |
| 18:18.10 | JeffM | going to have to do a number of fun HTTP plug-ins for 3.0 |
| 18:18.20 | ts | JeffM: I saw the /match idea..it's a bad one. |
| 18:18.22 | JeffM | actualy I'll have to call the match one , webMatch |
| 18:18.31 | JeffM | ts: care to comment? |
| 18:18.39 | ts | The current way is much more flexible |
| 18:18.51 | JeffM | webReport will be a way to view /report files via HTTP |
| 18:18.55 | ts | JeffM: Yes, I just wanted to give a short summary at first. |
| 18:19.20 | JeffM | ts: care to expand on what you can do in the old one that you can't do in the new one? |
| 18:19.31 | ts | JeffM: Offis get sometimes changed to funmatches during game |
| 18:19.51 | JeffM | and they just arn't reported? |
| 18:19.53 | *** part/#bzflag snerfu (n=brian@pdpc/supporter/active/snerfu) |
| 18:19.57 | ts | JeffM: Funmatches are different that the "official" ones, the fms don't count |
| 18:20.01 | JeffM | ok |
| 18:20.07 | JeffM | so you just need a /match noreport |
| 18:20.17 | JeffM | that's simple |
| 18:20.37 | ts | Well, but that must be done during the match, not only at start.. |
| 18:20.41 | JeffM | sure |
| 18:20.48 | JeffM | anytime before it's over |
| 18:20.48 | ts | and I doubt all will understand at first. |
| 18:21.14 | ts | so not reporting should be default |
| 18:21.33 | JeffM | I can put that into a var so server owners can decide what they want to happen |
| 18:21.41 | JeffM | and I mean by default all it does is send it to /report |
| 18:21.49 | JeffM | that dosn't make anything "officail" |
| 18:21.58 | JeffM | as it sits you'd still have report them to the leauge by hand |
| 18:22.17 | ts | However what would be really neat would be putting players that have already spawned in the past to observer at match start |
| 18:22.21 | JeffM | so what games 'count' is still a human thing |
| 18:22.35 | JeffM | ts: huh? |
| 18:22.44 | JeffM | already spawned in the past? |
| 18:22.54 | ts | JeffM: I give an example |
| 18:23.29 | delusional | The only other suggestion I have, is that every time the score changes, it should have a BIG FAT display of the current score, so that every last player, from the lowliest newb to the most seasoned pro, knows EXACTLY what the score is. ... nothing is more frustrating than having a player on your team that doesnt even know it's CTF. |
| 18:23.31 | ts | JeffM: Let's say we played an offi...then I am reporting it..and other ones want to start a new offi while I am busy reporting |
| 18:23.45 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.106.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 18:24.01 | JeffM | delusional: yes I plan on chat dumps of the store state |
| 18:24.12 | JeffM | as well as "a match is starting" etc.. |
| 18:24.14 | delusional | cool |
| 18:24.24 | ts | JeffM: Or some accidently spawned before the match starts..then they will spawn NOT at base at match start (unfair) |
| 18:24.40 | KTL | how can an observer have a score? at http://my.bzflag.org/currentplayers.php?order=strengthindex that jack is at the top most of the time while he is an observer |
| 18:24.43 | JeffM | ts: when the match starts, everyone is respawned |
| 18:24.57 | Winny | JeffM: maybe don't allow spawns during the countdown? |
| 18:25.22 | JeffM | Winny: if the server is set to disallow team joins new players are shunted to observer |
| 18:25.25 | JeffM | it's configurable |
| 18:25.34 | ts | JeffM: May you explain what you mean by "everyone is respawned"? |
| 18:25.44 | JeffM | ts: all tanks are desapwned |
| 18:25.47 | JeffM | poof |
| 18:25.48 | JeffM | gone |
| 18:25.49 | Winny | JeffM: I'm talking about the people which are playing... Don't allow them to spawn at all until the countdown is done and that match starts |
| 18:25.56 | JeffM | score is reset |
| 18:25.58 | JeffM | then they can spawn |
| 18:26.03 | JeffM | Winny: dosn't matter |
| 18:26.16 | JeffM | they can move and driver and shot |
| 18:26.24 | JeffM | then they are all zapped |
| 18:26.32 | JeffM | and will spawn at base |
| 18:26.47 | ts | JeffM: If they played before and dead currently..they will spawn different |
| 18:26.48 | JeffM | we can do that now ;) |
| 18:26.57 | JeffM | ts: no. not after this change |
| 18:27.05 | JeffM | ts: I am changing how the server works |
| 18:27.08 | ts | JeffM: Do you suggest to reset the spawn position? |
| 18:27.13 | JeffM | ts: BINGO |
| 18:27.53 | ts | JeffM: That's the better explanation :y |
| 18:28.21 | JeffM | ts: basicly the game server itself will know that a match is starting and force people to be where they should be |
| 18:28.39 | JeffM | and since we have messages that tell them when they can spawn, we can do a lot more |
| 18:28.53 | JeffM | so when you do a /match start the pregame countdown starts |
| 18:29.04 | JeffM | all the non observer players at that time are considered the "teams" |
| 18:29.09 | JeffM | and they are told a match is starting |
| 18:29.25 | JeffM | then when the match starts all players are despawned, then allowed to spawn when the match starts |
| 18:29.28 | JeffM | and the airhorn blows |
| 18:29.35 | JeffM | and they WILL spawn at base |
| 18:29.46 | ts | ok.. |
| 18:29.53 | JeffM | so everyone starts fair and equal |
| 18:30.05 | JeffM | then when the match is over, all players are paused |
| 18:30.10 | JeffM | well no drive, no shoot |
| 18:30.18 | JeffM | untill the postgame is over |
| 18:30.36 | JeffM | then the reporting happens ( based on settings ) |
| 18:30.40 | ts | Hmm... |
| 18:30.44 | JeffM | and people can talk, and wahtever, |
| 18:31.05 | JeffM | if they want to end the lockdown, they can do a /match end and that will let everyone play, in freeeplay mode |
| 18:31.15 | ts | The score will reset after postgame is over, right? |
| 18:31.18 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:31.26 | ts | I don't like that idea |
| 18:31.27 | JeffM | all scores reset |
| 18:31.30 | JeffM | why? |
| 18:31.41 | JeffM | I can make it a prefrence in a var, that's easy |
| 18:32.07 | ts | It would mean people can not start a new match until postgame is over. |
| 18:32.18 | JeffM | ts: naw they can do a /match start |
| 18:32.23 | JeffM | that will start it anew |
| 18:32.41 | JeffM | the score will be loged into the chat, so if you need time to report you can use that |
| 18:33.09 | ts | What is the deleting score good for then? |
| 18:33.14 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r16781 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneRenderer.cxx: these aren't really sizes, so make 'em ints |
| 18:33.28 | JeffM | ts: in the case where people just want to play, not in any match |
| 18:33.35 | ts | The team scores are already deleted when the countdown starts again |
| 18:33.36 | JeffM | freeplay |
| 18:33.53 | JeffM | ts: but I'll hang a var on it, it's easy |
| 18:34.54 | ts | It sounds a bit complicated in its logic. |
| 18:35.02 | JeffM | not really |
| 18:35.57 | JeffM | you can use it in the same way as you use the current commands with some small configurations. I can help you guys set it up if need be |
| 18:36.43 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r16782 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/Player.h: make parameter names match in delcaration |
| 18:40.02 | Winny | mini mini mini mini mini wheats |
| 18:40.13 | Winny | Great, another horrible commercial stuck in my head |
| 18:43.05 | JeffM | how long is the 'standard' match? |
| 18:44.08 | JeffM | 10 min? |
| 18:44.17 | me1 | usually 30 minutes |
| 18:44.21 | JeffM | k |
| 18:44.40 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r16783 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/bzrobots.cxx: fixup bzrobots with a display global too |
| 18:44.41 | JeffM | I just need a default |
| 18:47.01 | JeffM | ts I've updated the wiki to hopefully make it more clear |
| 18:47.09 | JeffM | and listed all the vars that controll it |
| 18:48.24 | JeffM | tho I do realise there will be one HILARIOUS side effect of this |
| 18:48.35 | JeffM | when the match ends. everyone will stop |
| 18:48.48 | JeffM | and people in the air will just fall to earth ;) |
| 18:50.01 | JeffM | hmmm.. need an airhorn or whissle sound to play too :) |
| 18:51.14 | ts | JeffM: Hehe, make sure a cap doesn't count if the owner had the flag ;) |
| 18:51.27 | JeffM | ts: the score is locked |
| 18:52.30 | ts | JeffM: Yeah but it would be irriating to people when he caps |
| 18:54.39 | JeffM | ts, he won't |
| 18:55.05 | JeffM | the server will know the game is over, and won't even send out the cap |
| 18:55.25 | JeffM | heck I can just reset all the flags at that point even |
| 18:57.42 | delusional | yes. |
| 18:58.19 | delusional | should be a settable delay before the next match automatically begins |
| 18:58.23 | ts | Oh and we (GU league) count selfcaps as point for the other team. |
| 19:00.06 | JeffM | then a very simple plugin can be made to have that reflected in the scores |
| 19:00.40 | DTRemenak | brlcad: mostly it just bothered me that people were checking in changes to it, 'cause that means it was sucking time from something else |
| 19:02.16 | DTRemenak | and it's always bugged me that there was a massive pile of code in a header file, none of which was formatted right |
| 19:03.23 | DTRemenak | and that it was buggy, and that we already had a perfectly good expressions parser in bzbb |
| 19:03.42 | DTRemenak | so I figured it was easier to take it out than to fix it |
| 19:06.31 | Epyon | re all |
| 19:06.43 | Winny | waves to Epyon |
| 19:06.48 | Epyon | Any new interesting GSoC students appeared? :) |
| 19:07.36 | Winny | Epyon, are you aplpying this year again? |
| 19:08.21 | Epyon | Winny, what do you think? ;] |
| 19:08.26 | Winny | maybe? |
| 19:08.53 | Epyon | I'm still searching for an alternative application idea. The first one will be "BZWGen revisited" |
| 19:09.08 | Winny | work on BZWB if jude- doesn't apply :) |
| 19:09.26 | JeffM | how many orgs are you going to apply too? |
| 19:09.32 | Epyon | I want to have a "popular" backup idea in case the BZWGen one fails (and it will probably do) |
| 19:10.08 | Epyon | JeffM, if BZWGen's chances would be higher, I'd probably apply only to BZFlag. But with the current situation I need some backup. |
| 19:10.32 | JeffM | how many orgs did you apply to last year? |
| 19:10.44 | Epyon | I'm gonna apply to TP again, but will probably give up on Wesnoth |
| 19:10.55 | JeffM | why? |
| 19:10.59 | Epyon | Last year? Just BZF and TP |
| 19:11.30 | Epyon | JeffM, it would take to long to get to know what I need to know to write a solid application. |
| 19:11.41 | spldart | we use http://bzflag.pastebin.ca correct? |
| 19:11.59 | Epyon | I'd rather focus on less apps but improve their quality |
| 19:12.01 | JeffM | many other devs are int he same boat as you Epyon, it's part of SoC ;) |
| 19:12.14 | JeffM | spldart: pastebin.bzflag.bz |
| 19:13.01 | Epyon | However, I still silently hope that BZWGen re. will be considered :) |
| 19:13.20 | JeffM | every application will be considered ;) |
| 19:13.28 | JeffM | it's just good to diversify |
| 19:13.39 | JeffM | SoC is suposed to be about getting devs into new projects, etc.. |
| 19:13.40 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-75-36-46-10.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:13.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 19:13.53 | *** part/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-75-36-46-10.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:13.53 | Epyon | "hi duuudez, i want to do l333t AI for bWFlag, you dig?" xP |
| 19:14.01 | JeffM | we will rank it |
| 19:14.03 | JeffM | low |
| 19:14.05 | JeffM | but we will read it |
| 19:14.07 | Epyon | xD |
| 19:14.10 | spldart | ok... as of 16783 vc8 builds just fine but linux http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m44a45940 |
| 19:14.12 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-75-36-46-10.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:14.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 19:14.13 | Epyon | Well, you read it :P |
| 19:14.32 | JeffM | spldart: hmm |
| 19:14.54 | spldart | If you need me to do anything to verify let me know2 |
| 19:15.04 | JeffM | naw |
| 19:15.05 | Epyon | Still, I'd like for both BZFlag and TP to get one slot more this year :) |
| 19:15.05 | JeffM | 1 sec |
| 19:15.17 | JeffM | Epyon: we expect more slots then last year |
| 19:15.43 | Epyon | JeffM, if that would happen then I'd still have chance with BZWGen re. |
| 19:15.51 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r16784 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/MatchManager.cxx: less stubby so it builds |
| 19:15.59 | JeffM | we also expect more applicaitons |
| 19:16.06 | JeffM | dan you bryjen |
| 19:16.09 | bryjen | try now spldart |
| 19:16.10 | JeffM | now I have to merge |
| 19:16.10 | spldart | Should that fix? |
| 19:16.13 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:16.13 | spldart | will do |
| 19:16.25 | JeffM | I was typing in the commit message too :( |
| 19:16.29 | spldart | hehe |
| 19:16.36 | bryjen | dan? dan me to hel? |
| 19:16.37 | bryjen | ;) |
| 19:16.38 | Epyon | JeffM, however if you have a "popular" idea that is still in the scope of my interests/abilities please share -- I'd like to have a backup app for BZF |
| 19:16.46 | spldart | no config necessary correct.. |
| 19:16.51 | JeffM | spldart: no |
| 19:17.04 | spldart | ok 16 minutes and it will be done... and know |
| 19:17.12 | spldart | stupid slow make hehe |
| 19:17.30 | JeffM | Epyon: you have read the list? |
| 19:17.37 | Epyon | Yeah |
| 19:17.51 | JeffM | do any of those ideas interest you? |
| 19:18.13 | Epyon | Anything that has to do with the net protocols gives me shivers. |
| 19:18.37 | Epyon | BZWB I like, but I have no C++ GUI experience at all |
| 19:18.39 | DTRemenak | sounds like a good thing to work on then, might cure a phobia ;) |
| 19:18.47 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:18.54 | JeffM | the point is to LEARN ;) |
| 19:18.59 | Epyon | DTRemenak, but doesn't make you rank high on the app list ;] |
| 19:19.00 | JeffM | not just keep doing what you know |
| 19:19.39 | Epyon | "Hello I'd like to do X, but I have no experience in it. Take me, instead of that guy who does it since 5 years." :P |
| 19:19.41 | JeffM | why does language matter for GUI? |
| 19:20.02 | JeffM | Epyon: if your app is better defined then his is, it may be ranked higher |
| 19:20.36 | DTRemenak | Epyon: that's not part of our ranking criteria |
| 19:20.57 | Epyon | JeffM, the problem is that to write a good app you have to have a good idea about what you are writing. Chances are that even if I research the subject a lot I will still don't see things a expert does. |
| 19:20.58 | JeffM | the part about the experience of the dev is mostly so we can get a feeling if they CAN do it |
| 19:21.17 | JeffM | Epyon: we don't expect anyone to be an expert |
| 19:21.22 | JeffM | we expect them to work with us |
| 19:21.28 | DTRemenak | Epyon: what we ask is, 1) is it needed/wanted. 2) will it have an impact on the users. 3) is the student capable of doing it within the allotted time. 4) does someone want to mentor it. |
| 19:21.35 | Epyon | " Enhanced cross-platform multiple display support" sounds really cool, but I'm not sure about how useful it is, and it would definitively better to wait until SDL supports it :P |
| 19:21.37 | JeffM | these arn't 'go off and do a thing' projects |
| 19:21.52 | JeffM | Epyon: so apply to SDL to do it in SDL ;) |
| 19:21.53 | DTRemenak | Epyon: part of that project may be making SDL support it |
| 19:21.56 | JeffM | they are asking for the same thing |
| 19:22.08 | Epyon | JeffM, low level work scares me :D |
| 19:22.10 | DTRemenak | if we get applications for that we will be talking to the SDL folks |
| 19:22.29 | DTRemenak | Epyon: scary things are the ones that will help you grow the most |
| 19:22.30 | JeffM | Epyon: you aren't realy making yourself look like any form of confident developer |
| 19:22.42 | Epyon | Hell, I'd even apply for that but I'm not confident I could do that :/ |
| 19:22.55 | JeffM | Epyon: remember its' not JUST you |
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| 19:23.22 | DTRemenak | that's why you have a mentor |
| 19:23.47 | JeffM | and an entire development comunity |
| 19:26.05 | Epyon | I'll probably apply for BZWB if jude- doesn't. |
| 19:26.20 | JeffM | Epyon: why if he dosn't? |
| 19:26.26 | JeffM | we ahve said we could go with 2 people on it |
| 19:27.02 | Epyon | JeffM, wasn't there a no-no in GSoC rules about collaborative projects? |
| 19:27.14 | JeffM | no |
| 19:27.26 | JeffM | the only rule is that we be able to track your work |
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| 19:27.35 | ruskie | the whole point of foss is collaboration... |
| 19:27.35 | DTRemenak | you can't do something that depends on some other SoC student's work |
| 19:27.43 | JeffM | and that the work we track haas to be yours |
| 19:27.44 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:27.56 | DTRemenak | but if it's split in a way that is not codependent, then there's no problem |
| 19:27.58 | Epyon | I was thinking however to list some BZWG-BZWB integration/bridge in my BZWG proposal |
| 19:28.36 | JeffM | if we set your tasks out so that we know what each of you is doing we'll be fine |
| 19:28.48 | Epyon | So that you could generate and change parameters of BZWG maps directly from BZWB |
| 19:29.11 | spldart | N/M didn't take so long... As of 16874 it's all good Win and Lin |
| 19:29.34 | JeffM | it'd be the same as if more then one person was working on bzflag |
| 19:29.35 | spldart | I wonder if I should be testing plugins build on a regular basis |
| 19:30.01 | JeffM | I mean sure they may bump into each other sometimes, but that's normal |
| 19:30.24 | Epyon | BTW : "Modularization of game logic" is "Implementation of a graphics engine, part 1"? :P |
| 19:30.48 | JeffM | Epyon: it is part one of MANY things |
| 19:30.50 | JeffM | game engine |
| 19:30.52 | JeffM | better server |
| 19:30.55 | JeffM | better robots |
| 19:30.58 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 19:31.13 | Epyon | Seems a real biggie in terms of need. |
| 19:31.26 | JeffM | yes |
| 19:31.38 | JeffM | that will be the most interactive project of them all |
| 19:31.52 | Epyon | And probably the hardest :D |
| 19:31.58 | JeffM | like I'd exect that one to have multiple commits per day |
| 19:32.17 | JeffM | I don't know about hardest |
| 19:32.31 | JeffM | but one that requires the max reserach into how the game is suposed to work, to ensure that nothing is broken |
| 19:32.43 | Epyon | That's what I meant. |
| 19:32.57 | JeffM | that may not be hard for some |
| 19:33.07 | Epyon | However after that one, one would have an almost complete understanding of BZF's internals :P |
| 19:33.10 | JeffM | I have a feeling you may think it woudl be hard for you |
| 19:33.26 | Epyon | Nah, that doesn't scare me as much |
| 19:34.24 | Epyon | loves refactoring. |
| 19:34.37 | JeffM | I meant the learning/research part |
| 19:34.53 | JeffM | so far you seem to have expressed an opinion that you want to shy away from those |
| 19:35.41 | Epyon | JeffM, that'd make me just "lazy" :P |
| 19:35.57 | JeffM | also don't forget you can submit your own origonal ideas |
| 19:36.03 | JeffM | I mean that's what your last one was |
| 19:36.08 | JeffM | and it got accepted |
| 19:36.13 | Epyon | And I do want to improve my skills which is impossible without learning/research. |
| 19:36.36 | Epyon | JeffM, most of those would be donned because of too great impact on gameplay. |
| 19:36.57 | JeffM | such as? |
| 19:37.24 | Epyon | For example what I thought of was Lualizing most of the games rules at server-side to allow for example a simple script to change basic behaviour such as one-shot killing. |
| 19:37.43 | JeffM | we'll be able to do that with the API |
| 19:38.04 | JeffM | couple client changes and that's done |
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| 19:38.24 | Epyon | That was a oneshot example. |
| 19:38.41 | JeffM | the idea is to have all the game logic be overidable by the API |
| 19:38.48 | JeffM | then we can expose the API to any language |
| 19:38.51 | Epyon | just realized that what he's thinking about is basically the "Modularization of game logic"+Lua |
| 19:39.40 | Epyon | I was also thinking of Lua-based client side scripting (including GUI scripting) |
| 19:39.57 | JeffM | personaly I'm not a huge fan of binding other languages into the main server app, I'd prefer them to be modular |
| 19:40.08 | JeffM | since no mater what we have to break it all down into an API |
| 19:40.19 | JeffM | so why not just allow access to that API :) |
| 19:40.28 | ruskie | would be wondering how much overhead adding lua to everything would be |
| 19:40.33 | JeffM | some |
| 19:40.39 | JeffM | tho I doubt it woudl be big |
| 19:40.53 | JeffM | since the core of BZ would still be C++ |
| 19:40.54 | ruskie | yeah that's the impression I get about lua... |
| 19:41.19 | Epyon | Maybe SWIG then? :P |
| 19:41.24 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:41.37 | JeffM | swigifying the API has been talked about |
| 19:42.09 | JeffM | and there is a method in place allready to provide handlers for difrernt plugin extensions |
| 19:42.18 | JeffM | that's how the python plugin was done |
| 19:44.08 | JeffM | and just to clearify, it's not seperate of game logic that you'd be doing, it would be the authoritive server state |
| 19:44.17 | JeffM | since you'd be moving the game logic to the server |
| 19:44.36 | JeffM | the game logic cleanup is mostly just seperating the client from the engine |
| 19:44.39 | Epyon | Uuuh, that's mean that the task includes server-side GM's and all O.o |
| 19:44.46 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:44.58 | JeffM | universal mobile objets system :) |
| 19:45.33 | Epyon | will take a look what is left in the client |
| 19:45.56 | JeffM | quite a bit |
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| 19:46.17 | pacman87 | how hard would it be to allow maps to resize/scale depending on the number of players? |
| 19:46.19 | JeffM | hits are already sent to the server, we just need to have the server do the kill message |
| 19:46.34 | JeffM | pacman87: with the current system, we can not update the world while people are on it |
| 19:47.42 | pacman87 | right, but how hard would it be to add that feature? |
| 19:49.18 | pacman87 | change client to accept world update (and tank position update for world boundaries), allow server to push out a new world |
| 19:51.14 | Winny | it would be interesting to be able to do a rotation server without kicking people off |
| 19:52.52 | pacman87 | and if there's only 4 people playing pillbox, it'd be nice to have a smaller map that grows as people join |
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| 20:08.27 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 20:14.04 | spldart | 's head is goin to explode.. I'm reading each commit in CommandsImplementation.cxx trying to figure how it broke and how it was repaired and only just barely understand :-( |
| 20:21.15 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A55F64.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:27.40 | Epyon | Winny, I second that |
| 20:28.58 | L4m3r | I could see kicking everyone to obs and reloading the map, and sending them back to teams |
| 20:29.10 | L4m3r | I don't think we should allow the map to change dynamically though |
| 20:29.28 | Epyon | That would open to a lot of annoyiong behaviours :P |
| 20:30.05 | Winny | hehe |
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| 20:32.41 | bryjen | like and admin command to drop houses on people ;) |
| 20:32.56 | bryjen | s/and/an/ |
| 20:34.07 | pacman87 | drop a tall hollow box = prison cell |
| 20:35.49 | jftsang | I'm not so sure about dynamic worlds |
| 20:35.57 | pacman87 | you'd have to do some sort of getClosestValidPosition() for world swaps |
| 20:36.05 | jftsang | the idea sounds great, but what if something like a base moves to below water level? |
| 20:36.23 | pacman87 | what happens now if you have a map like that? |
| 20:37.04 | jftsang | or consider this |
| 20:37.16 | jftsang | should the world change if there is nobody observing the world? |
| 20:37.42 | pacman87 | quantum bzflag? |
| 20:38.11 | Epyon | Is the world dead or alive? Or maybe both? :D |
| 20:38.29 | pacman87 | you could just have the basics server side, and leave it up to the map maker not to do anything stupid with it |
| 20:38.56 | pacman87 | you'd still need the closest new valid position, though |
| 20:39.06 | pacman87 | so someone doesn't end up inside a new box |
| 20:40.08 | jftsang | one thing I really would like to see is the ability to use BZDB variables in positions or sizes of objects |
| 20:40.37 | *** join/#bzflag Rebel (n=47360b92@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:40.38 | jftsang | I might want to make a box which has a height of _jumpVelocity |
| 20:40.42 | Rebel | hello? |
| 20:40.45 | jftsang | hello |
| 20:41.09 | Rebel | sup |
| 20:41.17 | Rebel | umm i need help |
| 20:41.21 | jftsang | please go on |
| 20:42.03 | Epyon | Duuuh, I really want to see all those SDL projects done D: |
| 20:42.07 | Rebel | i need to know which league should i enter? i want to look from an admins point of view of which one |
| 20:42.20 | jftsang | you may enter as many or as few as you want :) |
| 20:42.26 | Winny | Why does an "admin" point of view matter? |
| 20:42.30 | jftsang | that's the easiest answer we can give you |
| 20:42.33 | Winny | You should join the most fun, active league |
| 20:42.34 | L4m3r | yeah, I don't think we're ever going to have worlds that can change while people are playing |
| 20:42.37 | Rebel | cause they are smart |
| 20:42.47 | pacman87 | or a height of (_jumpVelocity^2)/(2*_gravity) - _tankHeight |
| 20:42.47 | Winny | Not all of them are |
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| 20:43.06 | jftsang | "smart" isn't what you would use to describe admins on my server :P |
| 20:43.35 | Rebel | im talking about admins like JeffM |
| 20:43.43 | jftsang | anyway, the simple answer is, there is no "best" league |
| 20:43.43 | Rebel | hes pretty smart |
| 20:43.46 | L4m3r | the closest thing I can see happening is having the map reload while everyone is obs |
| 20:43.47 | pacman87 | he's a dev, not an admin |
| 20:44.02 | Rebel | well hes still smart |
| 20:44.08 | Winny | Rebel: you should think for yourself, not rely on the thoughts of others |
| 20:44.10 | jftsang | he's an administrator for public services such as this chatroom |
| 20:44.24 | Rebel | hey im new at this so dont go at my throat. |
| 20:44.31 | jftsang | Rebel, join whichever one you like |
| 20:44.37 | Winny | You're new at thinking for yourself? |
| 20:44.41 | spldart | And part of the 'dev' group so he could potential mod a server with the dev group :-p |
| 20:44.42 | jftsang | there isn't even any pressure for you to join a league |
| 20:44.58 | Rebel | nonono youve got it all wrong ur twisting my words |
| 20:45.07 | Winny | Sure, asking for opinions is great, but joining something because someone said so isn't |
| 20:45.20 | Rebel | ok ill go choose a new league bye guys |
| 20:45.23 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@206-248-157-113.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 20:45.32 | Winny | GU is currently the most active |
| 20:45.43 | Winny | http://gu.bzleague.com/ |
| 20:46.04 | Winny | Ducati has maybe 2 matches a day, it appears |
| 20:46.14 | pacman87 | L4m3r: what problems can't be solved by intellegent map design and a getNearestValidPosition()? |
| 20:46.16 | jftsang | silly question, but what exactly is the point of joining a leauge? |
| 20:46.34 | pacman87 | to play matches with a good group of people |
| 20:46.34 | L4m3r | pacman87: the design decision that worlds should be static |
| 20:46.34 | Winny | jftsang: most people just join it to play and have fun |
| 20:46.50 | Winny | and make teams with friends, etc |
| 20:47.15 | jftsang | looks through his mind's dictionary for the word "fun" |
| 20:47.22 | L4m3r | of course it is technically feasible, and it seems that some of the developers are open to some dynamic world properties... but on the whole, worlds should not change while in play |
| 20:47.34 | pacman87 | L4m3r: so it's philosophical problems |
| 20:47.47 | L4m3r | if you want to call it a problem, then yes :P |
| 20:47.55 | pacman87 | objections, then |
| 20:48.20 | JeffM | L4m3r: actualy that one isn't |
| 20:48.41 | L4m3r | really? |
| 20:48.52 | JeffM | it's just not high on the list to do now because we need a LOT more backend before we can do it |
| 20:48.57 | JeffM | yeah, we'd do moving worlds if we could |
| 20:49.03 | JeffM | but a lot of stuff has to change first |
| 20:49.10 | JeffM | mostly with state sync |
| 20:49.31 | L4m3r | moving is one thing, but on-the-fly map changes? that seems a bit much to me |
| 20:49.46 | JeffM | it would suck if an object moved for you, you saw a shot miss it, but for me, I was slightly laged, and the shot ricoed |
| 20:50.06 | pacman87 | doesnt' moving everything server-side fix that? |
| 20:50.08 | JeffM | moving is an on the fly map change ;) |
| 20:50.14 | JeffM | pacman87: it starts |
| 20:50.20 | JeffM | it gives us a state to sync to |
| 20:50.33 | JeffM | once we ahve that, then we can start sending out sync updates when stuff changes |
| 20:50.43 | JeffM | it's a lot of work |
| 20:50.49 | L4m3r | JeffM: not if it was implemented well... objects would move and change based on a predictable pattern, or related to ingame events |
| 20:51.27 | JeffM | L4m3r: if it was implemented well the server could move any object as long as it could move in a predictable manner, and disapear and appear can be made predictable ;) |
| 20:51.27 | L4m3r | the server would not send new map data to clients after they join, save for sync updates |
| 20:51.43 | JeffM | L4m3r: the server should be able to update anything mid game |
| 20:51.55 | JeffM | as long as it also sends out new prediction data |
| 20:52.17 | JeffM | forcing people to quit just to change maps is stupid |
| 20:52.26 | L4m3r | not quit, necessarily |
| 20:52.42 | pacman87 | the easy solution to map changes would be to kill everyone and force respawns |
| 20:52.47 | L4m3r | I could see them being kicked to obs for a map reload, and returned to play |
| 20:53.04 | JeffM | yes for a full reload you'd have to |
| 20:53.09 | JeffM | limbo em and reload |
| 20:53.13 | JeffM | that's not to hard |
| 20:53.42 | L4m3r | but trying to "morph" the map into the next one in the rotation while people try to play seems dumb |
| 20:53.52 | JeffM | but if we can do moving maps, we can also do maps that have the outer walls slide larger as the map gets more populated ;) |
| 20:54.02 | JeffM | L4m3r: depends on how bad the changes are |
| 20:54.04 | pacman87 | JeffM: that would make me happy |
| 20:54.10 | JeffM | you are correct, drastic changes would not be fun |
| 20:54.28 | JeffM | so that right there is a reason to have full reloads have a limbo pop |
| 20:54.45 | JeffM | but stuff like exposing more map or or something would not be too bad |
| 20:55.04 | L4m3r | so I can agree with existing map changes, moving objects, etc |
| 20:55.10 | JeffM | or a base growing taller in responce to an action |
| 20:55.26 | L4m3r | but I don't think that, for instance, new objects should be added to the world unless they were pre-loaded and hidden |
| 20:55.58 | L4m3r | (as far as the walls are concern, it'd be nice to generalize that into a mesh of some sort) |
| 20:56.05 | L4m3r | concerned* |
| 20:56.10 | jftsang | would be cool if there were ACTUAL world rotations, non? |
| 20:56.23 | jftsang | worlds spinning around |
| 20:56.26 | JeffM | preloading and hidden, timed to come on a specific time.. that'd be predictable ;) |
| 20:56.35 | JeffM | jftsang: huh? |
| 20:56.37 | L4m3r | well, or tied to a game event |
| 20:56.57 | JeffM | L4m3r: yeah as long as it can be lag comped it's fine |
| 20:57.13 | pacman87 | JeffM: you'd still need to handle tanks in newly invalidated positions |
| 20:57.13 | JeffM | your statemet is true, but for fun rasons, not techincal ones |
| 20:57.24 | JeffM | pacman87: indeed |
| 20:57.30 | JeffM | it's all got a lot of problems |
| 20:57.32 | L4m3r | boom |
| 20:57.37 | L4m3r | they're handled :) |
| 20:57.39 | JeffM | naw just slide em out |
| 20:57.49 | L4m3r | unless they get crushed |
| 20:58.01 | JeffM | that is why major changes should be done with a limbo, to make it not be unfun |
| 20:58.08 | pacman87 | i vote for an option to either kill or slide |
| 20:58.15 | L4m3r | though, I guess they should "squish" until the height reaches zero |
| 20:58.23 | JeffM | pacman87: this is years away |
| 20:58.24 | jftsang | worlds spinning around, like a tie rack |
| 20:58.47 | JeffM | jftsang: why would you even notice the world spinning? you are ON the world |
| 20:58.57 | L4m3r | heh... make the sky spin |
| 20:59.00 | pacman87 | corriolis effect? |
| 20:59.05 | JeffM | the sky does spin ;) |
| 20:59.12 | jftsang | no, I mean, many worlds around a central point spinning around the centre |
| 20:59.21 | jftsang | like one of those rides at fairgrounds |
| 20:59.21 | L4m3r | ok, make it spin *quickly* :P |
| 20:59.28 | JeffM | jftsang: huh? |
| 20:59.43 | L4m3r | what would be the point of that? the map would just scramble itself |
| 20:59.44 | JeffM | do you man "object" |
| 20:59.54 | JeffM | instead of "world" |
| 21:00.00 | jftsang | oh God... better not inject any more dopamine |
| 21:00.08 | jftsang | I mean, as in world rotation :P |
| 21:00.21 | JeffM | why woudl you want every object in the map to rotate? |
| 21:00.25 | pacman87 | rotate the world about the z axis? |
| 21:00.34 | JeffM | the world isn't a thing |
| 21:00.48 | JeffM | there is only ever one world, and it is all the objects in the map |
| 21:01.13 | jftsang | a world, containing smaller worlds |
| 21:01.31 | JeffM | so basicly want to make map change, cause everyone to vomit? |
| 21:01.33 | JeffM | why? |
| 21:01.50 | jftsang | because it "proves" string theory |
| 21:02.03 | JeffM | why are you wasting our time? |
| 21:03.19 | jftsang | erm, TKer on SV531's map |
| 21:03.55 | jftsang | ashleypogi13 |
| 21:05.50 | whodaman- | lol |
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| 21:23.12 | Paul_PL | hello |
| 21:23.26 | Winny | hi |
| 21:23.41 | Paul_PL | is anybody here with whom i can speak about GSoC ? |
| 21:24.00 | Winny | pokes brlcad |
| 21:24.01 | JeffM | sure all of us ;) |
| 21:24.07 | JeffM | whatcha need? |
| 21:24.20 | *** join/#bzflag DRantic (n=PFC_Rant@user-40567b.user.msu.edu) |
| 21:25.24 | Paul_PL | I want to talk about my ideas and proposal so probably it would have to be someone from the @ group |
| 21:25.38 | JeffM | talk about them here :) |
| 21:26.00 | JeffM | a number of mentors ( including myself) are here |
| 21:26.56 | JeffM | also all students will be expected to interact with rest of the comunity so it's always good to be open |
| 21:29.21 | *** join/#bzflag djm_ (n=djm@c-71-59-113-232.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:29.25 | djm_ | Hi |
| 21:29.30 | JeffM | hello |
| 21:29.30 | DRantic | aloha |
| 21:29.31 | djm_ | its me laserball31 |
| 21:29.46 | JeffM | and? |
| 21:29.58 | djm_ | JeffM, Dr.Robotnick copyed a copyright map |
| 21:30.08 | me1 | map's can't be copyrighted |
| 21:30.09 | JeffM | then tell the maps owner |
| 21:30.11 | me1 | not bzflag ones |
| 21:30.13 | JeffM | me1: yes they can |
| 21:30.16 | me1 | really> |
| 21:30.17 | me1 | ? |
| 21:30.19 | JeffM | why not? |
| 21:30.42 | djm_ | well that owner is not on bz anymore |
| 21:30.43 | me1 | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10575 |
| 21:30.51 | djm_ | but the map is still copyright |
| 21:31.10 | JeffM | that has nothing to do with copyright, and that ONLY has to do with maps posted on bzbb |
| 21:31.17 | me1 | oh |
| 21:31.19 | me1 | ok |
| 21:31.30 | Winny | djm_: which map? |
| 21:31.31 | *** join/#bzflag A (n=18d3f8a1@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:31.34 | JeffM | djm_: the copyright holder ( if they did not give licese ) is the only person who can or should do anything about the use of the map |
| 21:31.41 | whodaman- | B |
| 21:31.53 | djm_ | lemme check if robotnick has license |
| 21:32.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 21:32.10 | JeffM2501 | djm_: techincaly it's none of your biz |
| 21:33.16 | djm_ | o |
| 21:33.23 | djm_ | well, just alerting yo |
| 21:33.31 | JeffM2501 | we don't own the map |
| 21:33.40 | djm_ | ok |
| 21:33.43 | djm_ | bye |
| 21:33.56 | Winny | send PM to the owner of the map alerting him to it, if you're that concerned |
| 21:33.58 | Winny | bah. |
| 21:34.10 | JeffM2501 | knows what he's trying to do |
| 21:34.21 | Winny | make friends? |
| 21:34.25 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 21:34.25 | Paul_PL | i think about adding a 'servers with your buddies' list to the in-game server listing |
| 21:34.41 | Winny | hmm, I didn't mean it in that way.. more of a "make people hate him less" |
| 21:34.42 | JeffM2501 | Paul_PL: that could be interesting |
| 21:34.47 | JeffM2501 | Winny: blame shift |
| 21:34.54 | Winny | ahh |
| 21:35.32 | JeffM2501 | Paul_PL: that would tie into a number of subsystems |
| 21:35.38 | JeffM2501 | list server, and auth |
| 21:36.55 | Paul_PL | 'Enhanced server listing' this is the project i'm thinking about |
| 21:37.17 | JeffM2501 | that's more the buddies, but tis a good project |
| 21:37.17 | Paul_PL | from all my ideas this is, i think, the one needing some discussion |
| 21:37.48 | JeffM2501 | in addtion to buddies we'd like better ways to sort and display the data |
| 21:38.05 | JeffM2501 | such as showing games by type, grouping by server, etc.. |
| 21:38.14 | JeffM2501 | as well as letting people do lists of favorite servers |
| 21:38.23 | JeffM2501 | or servers that are in various league groups |
| 21:38.54 | Paul_PL | right thats all that stuff i didn't want to post here because it would be to much to write i think |
| 21:39.06 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 21:39.25 | Paul_PL | all the filter, sort etc. ideas :) |
| 21:39.34 | me1 | wasn't there an idea to take servers with the same name (e.g.: norang) and group them into one "slot" in the in-game list, and when you select it it opens to show all the servers? |
| 21:39.34 | JeffM2501 | too much for you to type? or too much that you don't think you could do it in the 3 months? |
| 21:39.46 | JeffM2501 | me1: yes a tree view |
| 21:39.56 | me1 | yeah, that |
| 21:39.58 | JeffM2501 | I'd like the current paged list to be changed to a scrolling tree view |
| 21:40.34 | L4m3r | I'd like a sort of hybrid of the two |
| 21:40.48 | L4m3r | say, the first to pages' worth up front, with the rest grouped into trees |
| 21:40.48 | JeffM2501 | you want pages? |
| 21:41.00 | L4m3r | s/to/two |
| 21:41.05 | Paul_PL | to type :) |
| 21:41.06 | JeffM2501 | I'd do that as tabs |
| 21:41.22 | JeffM2501 | Paul_PL: well you'd have to discuss it somewhere sometime |
| 21:41.40 | JeffM2501 | we do most of our colaboration here on IRC |
| 21:41.49 | L4m3r | but I think the more pressing issue there is the UI, frankly. it's rather kludgy, if the text was more like the console, it'd be easy to display MUCH more info. |
| 21:42.09 | JeffM2501 | yeah the display of the data needs a total rework |
| 21:42.27 | Paul_PL | i thought about the following features: sort, filter,tabs,find, connect to ip |
| 21:42.43 | JeffM2501 | Paul_PL: the main join page has the conenct to IP |
| 21:42.54 | JeffM2501 | so that's not needed on the server list page |
| 21:42.56 | L4m3r | interesting idea, though... merge the two |
| 21:43.02 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 21:43.09 | Paul_PL | i thought about putting it in one place |
| 21:43.11 | JeffM2501 | that cold be a lot |
| 21:43.13 | L4m3r | add an option to the find server page for "last server" |
| 21:43.29 | JeffM2501 | well yes you should have a tab that shows your server history |
| 21:43.36 | JeffM2501 | last 10 servers or whatnot |
| 21:43.46 | Paul_PL | as the tabs i understand recently used and favourites |
| 21:43.57 | Paul_PL | like those in web browsers |
| 21:44.02 | JeffM2501 | Paul_PL: how much of the game have you played |
| 21:44.50 | Paul_PL | just spare time, for a couple of weeks |
| 21:45.14 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 21:47.49 | JeffM2501 | and you've read our applicaton guidelines wiki? |
| 21:50.43 | pacman87 | how's this look: https://webspace.utexas.edu/trv82/www/bz_serverlist.bmp |
| 21:51.57 | Paul_PL | yes, i have |
| 21:52.34 | me1 | some servers have really long server name things that I can already bearly see. |
| 21:53.36 | pacman87 | you can leave off the url at the front, and the other stuff, and just show the name in the server list |
| 21:53.49 | me1 | still |
| 21:53.50 | pacman87 | or if they're grouped in folders |
| 21:53.57 | pacman87 | the folder name is the url |
| 21:54.04 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: that's the job for the students ;) |
| 21:54.06 | me1 | the server list should properly handle text that overflows |
| 21:54.14 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: unless you are going to apply |
| 21:54.27 | JeffM2501 | we do not have the player list of the servers ether |
| 21:54.38 | pacman87 | it'd be nice to have, though |
| 21:54.44 | JeffM2501 | lots of things would be nice |
| 21:54.56 | JeffM2501 | but just wanting something dosn't make it magicaly happen ;) |
| 21:55.25 | JeffM2501 | we can do that one of 2 ways |
| 21:55.33 | pacman87 | wouldn't you need that eventually for global chat? |
| 21:55.37 | JeffM2501 | brute force and waste bandwith, or a push stats system |
| 21:55.47 | me1 | i like the second way |
| 21:55.48 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: depdends how it's all done |
| 21:56.08 | JeffM2501 | the chat system would not have all players, but simply a link to all servers in the chat system |
| 21:56.15 | JeffM2501 | game servers have the player lists |
| 21:56.18 | JeffM2501 | the list server does not |
| 21:56.41 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-75-36-46-10.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:56.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 21:56.47 | pacman87 | would it be too much work for the list server to keep track of players? |
| 21:57.04 | JeffM2501 | depends on how it's done |
| 21:57.17 | me1 | how does the list server work right now, server send list server info? |
| 21:57.17 | JeffM2501 | it would seem odd that you are then making the list server into a stats server |
| 21:57.28 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:57.31 | pacman87 | or just limit it to registered players |
| 21:57.33 | JeffM2501 | but it just sends player counts |
| 21:58.21 | pacman87 | what's the benefit of keeping the list server seperate from stats? |
| 21:58.29 | JeffM2501 | points of failure ;) |
| 21:58.32 | JeffM2501 | and complexity |
| 21:58.47 | JeffM2501 | but it may be good to keep them together |
| 21:58.56 | JeffM2501 | at some point there has to be crosstalk |
| 21:59.07 | JeffM2501 | but that's all stuff that would have to be worked out for an implementation |
| 21:59.08 | pacman87 | then could you query the list server for the serverlist, and get all the other info from the stats server? |
| 21:59.18 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 21:59.21 | JeffM2501 | that is brute force |
| 21:59.38 | JeffM2501 | as you will get a lot of repeated queries to all the servers |
| 21:59.47 | pacman87 | or have bzfs respond to players |
| 21:59.49 | JeffM2501 | lot more bandwith slinging around |
| 22:00.06 | JeffM2501 | that's what would happen, the BZFSs have to respond to the query |
| 22:00.08 | JeffM2501 | over |
| 22:00.10 | pacman87 | well, you'd only get the stats info for the server you select |
| 22:00.10 | JeffM2501 | and over |
| 22:00.16 | JeffM2501 | that's still more bandwith |
| 22:00.39 | JeffM2501 | repeated checks on data that may not change |
| 22:00.55 | pacman87 | then have bzfs tell the stats server when it changes |
| 22:00.57 | JeffM2501 | a push system would send it to a central place where it would be cached untill it changed. |
| 22:01.05 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: that is a push stats system :) |
| 22:01.30 | L4m3r | IMHO, the stats site should be a fraction of what it is now |
| 22:01.42 | JeffM2501 | indeed, I do not like it as it stands ether |
| 22:01.57 | JeffM2501 | build a stats interface into the list server |
| 22:02.03 | L4m3r | with a large diversity of servers, keeping stats of scores for the entire list is, frankly, dumb |
| 22:02.23 | JeffM2501 | get bzfs to send up more info on an update, then have the list proivide that stat data via API pages, then let various stats sites do what they want. |
| 22:02.39 | L4m3r | the way I see it, the stats site shouldn't include anything beyond what's fed to the list server |
| 22:02.56 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: I could see friends lists, and current scores |
| 22:02.56 | L4m3r | so the list could push stats into a db, and we could provide an API to read from said db. |
| 22:03.13 | JeffM2501 | but yeah keeping and tracking scores forever is silly |
| 22:03.31 | L4m3r | the list can know who's playing on a server when they join, right? |
| 22:03.48 | L4m3r | integrating a friendslist wouldn't be too difficult |
| 22:03.49 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: not currently, but it would not be hard to add |
| 22:04.12 | L4m3r | as for current scores... I think that's best left to an on-demand "pull" system |
| 22:04.27 | L4m3r | at least globally |
| 22:04.39 | JeffM2501 | I'd rather they be sent to the list, then the pull systems hit our list page instead of the servers |
| 22:04.44 | JeffM2501 | we should not store them |
| 22:04.49 | JeffM2501 | other then maybe 'last score" |
| 22:04.53 | JeffM2501 | per player |
| 22:05.06 | JeffM2501 | I don't like the list walkers |
| 22:05.15 | L4m3r | no, no list walkers |
| 22:05.27 | L4m3r | just simple clients that get info for requested servers |
| 22:05.32 | JeffM2501 | if we did not do score, the list walkers would do it just to get score |
| 22:05.50 | JeffM2501 | some site somwhere will want some form of score |
| 22:05.51 | L4m3r | "get score info for this server" |
| 22:06.21 | Paul_PL | JeffM2501: would it be possible to put my ideas in a pre-proposal and get it reviewed? |
| 22:06.22 | L4m3r | if it was done on-demand, there would be no spidering or wasted B/W when using a pull system |
| 22:06.31 | JeffM2501 | Paul_PL: sure |
| 22:06.55 | JeffM2501 | just write it up and post it here |
| 22:06.56 | L4m3r | iirc the GSoC web app allows mentors to comment and review proposals before they are finalized |
| 22:07.10 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: indeed, but they can't apply yet |
| 22:07.17 | L4m3r | oh really? hehe, my bad |
| 22:07.43 | L4m3r | it makes more sense for clusters of servers to run their own push-based stats, complete with score storage |
| 22:07.58 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: sure, and they can do that as well |
| 22:08.14 | JeffM2501 | but I know the stat site people, some sites WILL want to have scores |
| 22:08.27 | JeffM2501 | so we can track them, it's one field, and all will be good |
| 22:08.31 | *** join/#bzflag clsdaniel (n=clsdanie@189.173.70.156) |
| 22:08.32 | L4m3r | but adding that to the list seems rather... nasty |
| 22:08.41 | JeffM2501 | it's a field |
| 22:08.47 | L4m3r | I mean, kills happen a lot more often than joins and parts |
| 22:08.52 | JeffM2501 | if we are going to track players, why not track the score too |
| 22:09.00 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: yeah I'd not update them every score |
| 22:09.08 | JeffM2501 | every heartbeat, or when they part |
| 22:09.10 | JeffM2501 | that'd be it |
| 22:09.19 | L4m3r | hm |
| 22:09.31 | JeffM2501 | and it'd just be stored in a "last score" per player |
| 22:09.42 | JeffM2501 | be more accurate the the poll systems too |
| 22:09.44 | L4m3r | maybe a min/max too |
| 22:09.48 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 22:09.53 | L4m3r | well, no |
| 22:10.05 | JeffM2501 | nothing todo with time |
| 22:10.07 | L4m3r | actually, I see no reason to store ANY scores |
| 22:10.10 | JeffM2501 | that's up to the end site |
| 22:10.18 | JeffM2501 | the only reason is ease of use |
| 22:10.21 | L4m3r | even the last one |
| 22:10.35 | JeffM2501 | poll systems never get the correct final score for a player |
| 22:11.05 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't hurt us to add it |
| 22:11.33 | JeffM2501 | it can help some uses, and it's more accurate then a poll system. I don't see why we don't add it |
| 22:11.53 | pacman87 | would it be possible to add league team data to a player? |
| 22:11.57 | L4m3r | we can report "live" scores |
| 22:12.05 | L4m3r | pacman87: not our job :) |
| 22:12.05 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: that's not our job |
| 22:12.09 | L4m3r | let the league do that |
| 22:12.10 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 22:12.16 | pacman87 | stereo response |
| 22:12.20 | JeffM2501 | leagues are not part of the core project |
| 22:12.51 | pacman87 | ok, i was just thinking it'd be easier to search if you could look for team member from within bzflag |
| 22:12.59 | pacman87 | members* |
| 22:13.10 | JeffM2501 | what is a team? |
| 22:13.27 | pacman87 | group of players |
| 22:13.27 | L4m3r | that is an argument for client plugins, methinks :) |
| 22:13.38 | pacman87 | it could be done with a friendlist |
| 22:13.43 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 22:13.46 | pacman87 | if you can categorize friends |
| 22:13.48 | L4m3r | perhaps |
| 22:13.59 | JeffM2501 | but that is manual |
| 22:14.01 | JeffM2501 | as it should be |
| 22:14.04 | L4m3r | or if we have a central system for friendslist groups |
| 22:14.19 | L4m3r | separate from the auth groups |
| 22:14.32 | JeffM2501 | could be part of the group manager |
| 22:14.33 | L4m3r | so that could be integrated into the client and used for whatever purpose |
| 22:14.49 | JeffM2501 | not a bad idea for a leauge to have leagename.teamname as a global group |
| 22:15.01 | JeffM2501 | makes for easy ID in a plug-in ;) |
| 22:15.17 | JeffM2501 | but that would be a leauge policy thing |
| 22:15.22 | L4m3r | can groups in the same org have different moderators? |
| 22:15.32 | pacman87 | then you could force one team per color on match servers |
| 22:15.40 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r: depends on how we implment it |
| 22:15.43 | L4m3r | technically you can do that now |
| 22:15.46 | L4m3r | it's just harder |
| 22:15.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah a lot harder |
| 22:16.01 | L4m3r | you'd have to query the league somehow |
| 22:16.18 | JeffM2501 | no, the leauge would push the data into our stuff |
| 22:16.27 | JeffM2501 | basicly WE would be there team storage for them |
| 22:16.57 | L4m3r | I mean now :) |
| 22:17.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah now would be hard |
| 22:17.07 | JeffM2501 | too much manual |
| 22:17.14 | L4m3r | you could separate them by team, but you'd need to get the league data |
| 22:17.31 | JeffM2501 | or make a lot of requests to us to add / remove teams |
| 22:17.32 | L4m3r | though, if you ran bzleague on the same server as bzfs, it'd be relatively easy |
| 22:17.45 | L4m3r | run a couple queries |
| 22:18.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah but we don't want to do that in the future |
| 22:19.29 | L4m3r | hm... you know, another nice thing about adding leagues to the group system would be that it'd be really simple for them to use global auth |
| 22:19.44 | JeffM2501 | bingo |
| 22:20.03 | JeffM2501 | and realy simple for match plugins to report who is playing who ;) |
| 22:24.33 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (n=dbharris@bas1-toronto48-1279295631.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:28.38 | pacman87 | another change i'd like is to have actual crosshairs for targeting, instead of the inner box. would there be any objections to me making a patch? |
| 22:29.25 | JeffM2501 | the plan for that is to redo the box thing |
| 22:29.31 | JeffM2501 | crosshairs |
| 22:29.42 | pacman87 | into what? |
| 22:29.47 | JeffM2501 | and then indicators on the outside that show where your input is in each axis |
| 22:29.55 | JeffM2501 | and where your tank is given the acceleration values for the server |
| 22:30.02 | JeffM2501 | and then turn off that damned cursor ;) |
| 22:30.07 | menotume | and, PLEASE make the radar configurable to above 30 ! |
| 22:30.08 | menotume | :P |
| 22:30.13 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 22:30.25 | Winny | hehe |
| 22:30.38 | JeffM2501 | it's as big as it is cus of you |
| 22:30.40 | JeffM2501 | it used to be 11 |
| 22:30.47 | Winny | 11... holy crap dude |
| 22:30.49 | Winny | that's tiny |
| 22:30.52 | me1 | 11? |
| 22:30.56 | AHA | 11? |
| 22:30.57 | AHA | wow |
| 22:31.03 | DRantic | !! |
| 22:31.07 | Winny | that is painfully small |
| 22:31.08 | menotume | yes AHA |
| 22:31.16 | pacman87 | so essentially an x-y graph showing the desired tank speed and the current speed as two points? |
| 22:31.17 | menotume | live with 30 |
| 22:31.23 | AHA | cant |
| 22:31.27 | me1 | 11 isn't /that/ small |
| 22:31.27 | AHA | downloads 2.0.2 |
| 22:31.33 | Winny | heh |
| 22:31.43 | Winny | me1: yes.. it is |
| 22:32.00 | pacman87 | JeffM2501: you wanted to reduce the radar quality, right? make it more realistic? |
| 22:32.08 | menotume | sure, get used to it AHA. when the new client comes out (in 2011), and it's not compatible, you will lose it |
| 22:32.26 | Winny | menotume: actually, before SoC ;) |
| 22:32.26 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: yes, X and Y scales, not a graph |
| 22:32.33 | JeffM2501 | since each axis is indepenednet |
| 22:32.48 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: my radar is a pipe dream |
| 22:33.01 | JeffM2501 | I do not think it will ever be in bzflag proper |
| 22:33.06 | pacman87 | i was thinking you could do that by reducing the radar framerate |
| 22:33.17 | JeffM2501 | well that I'm going to do sometime anway |
| 22:33.22 | JeffM2501 | but its difrent |
| 22:33.28 | JeffM2501 | eventaly I want radar objects |
| 22:33.33 | Epyon | is hit with a wall of text |
| 22:33.33 | JeffM2501 | that have there own bached update |
| 22:33.35 | L4m3r | yeah, separate radar protocol |
| 22:33.35 | Winny | Great... cripple the radar :/ |
| 22:33.44 | JeffM2501 | Winny: you don't need sub pixel accuracy |
| 22:33.46 | L4m3r | save B/W that way too |
| 22:33.58 | L4m3r | and help mitigate some cheats |
| 22:33.58 | Winny | JeffM2501: I'm talking about the slow framerate |
| 22:34.01 | JeffM2501 | also helps make cheats hearder |
| 22:34.14 | JeffM2501 | Winny: it'll interpolate so it'll have the same framreate |
| 22:34.14 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: we're on a roll today :) |
| 22:34.19 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 22:34.28 | JeffM2501 | Winny: it just will have it's own updates on a difrent scale |
| 22:35.02 | JeffM2501 | break each axis up into a signed short |
| 22:35.09 | Winny | how much slower? |
| 22:35.28 | JeffM2501 | the updates will have there won DR |
| 22:35.30 | JeffM2501 | own |
| 22:35.40 | JeffM2501 | so it'll depend on how fast the person moves |
| 22:35.47 | JeffM2501 | it'll just use a difrent scale |
| 22:36.30 | JeffM2501 | also lets us break up player and radar updates, so that we can do more with realy big worlds |
| 22:37.53 | Winny | JeffM2501: If you do eventually add the "real" radar, could it be a server option, so the leagues can keep traditional radar? |
| 22:38.09 | JeffM2501 | Winny: it would be tied to a totaly seperate game style |
| 22:38.15 | Winny | ahh, ok |
| 22:38.26 | pacman87 | "hardcore" |
| 22:38.34 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 22:38.38 | JeffM2501 | it would not be bzflag |
| 22:39.27 | pacman87 | how would you designate the center null zone with the new crosshairs? |
| 22:39.44 | JeffM2501 | the axis markers would have the null zones for each axis |
| 22:40.00 | JeffM2501 | imagine a U where the outer box is now |
| 22:40.17 | JeffM2501 | the vertical lines would be the forward/bacward axis |
| 22:40.30 | JeffM2501 | the lower horizontal line woudl be the left right turn axis |
| 22:40.39 | JeffM2501 | they would have marks for the dead zones |
| 22:40.53 | pacman87 | ah, i was thinking a plus instead of a U |
| 22:41.04 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: that gets in the way |
| 22:41.09 | pacman87 | right, that was my concern |
| 22:41.10 | JeffM2501 | you want to see where you are shooting |
| 22:41.22 | JeffM2501 | the U is always the same size |
| 22:41.29 | pacman87 | but there still should be something there to aim with |
| 22:41.39 | JeffM2501 | and we change the max/min box stuff to be deadzone and senstitivity |
| 22:41.51 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: sure, a small crosshair in the middle |
| 22:42.22 | pacman87 | cool, that's what i was looking for :) |
| 22:42.25 | JeffM2501 | I figured the U could have small marks on it that show where your input is NOW |
| 22:42.39 | JeffM2501 | and then a line would fill in over to that mark as the tank got to acceleration |
| 22:42.47 | JeffM2501 | so you can see how your acceleration is affected |
| 22:42.56 | JeffM2501 | and it woudl do this for ALL input modes |
| 22:43.02 | JeffM2501 | mouse, joystic, and keys |
| 22:43.33 | pacman87 | so you'd plot the data on the U |
| 22:43.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:43.48 | JeffM2501 | and get rid of the curson |
| 22:43.50 | JeffM2501 | cursor |
| 22:43.58 | JeffM2501 | the cursor is stupid for what we use it for |
| 22:44.25 | pacman87 | i was thinking you'd plot a dot using the (x,y) values from the axes |
| 22:44.39 | pacman87 | but that's not much different than the cursor |
| 22:44.47 | JeffM2501 | the dot dosn't mean anything |
| 22:44.53 | JeffM2501 | you want to clamp it to each axis |
| 22:44.57 | JeffM2501 | indpependently |
| 22:45.17 | JeffM2501 | there is no corolation between axes |
| 22:46.30 | pacman87 | you could have the two vertical portions show each tread's speed seperately |
| 22:46.50 | JeffM2501 | that would not be usefull information |
| 22:46.52 | pacman87 | but there's not really a point to that |
| 22:47.08 | JeffM2501 | A HUD is suposed to be helpfull |
| 22:47.48 | pacman87 | the center crosshair's size should be the same dimensions as the null zone, right? |
| 22:47.51 | Winny | JeffM2501: what do you think of a "world weapon" that sends text to a client when they touch a mesh to which it is applied |
| 22:49.04 | JeffM2501 | Winny: that would be a trigger driver |
| 22:49.08 | JeffM2501 | not a weapon |
| 22:49.15 | JeffM2501 | and yeah I have an idea for that |
| 22:49.27 | JeffM2501 | you'll be able to do it with death drivers hopefully for 3.0 |
| 22:49.35 | JeffM2501 | or an acctual trigger driver if I can get it |
| 22:49.40 | *** join/#bzflag mibocote (n=matt@x-134-84-99-106.reshalls.umn.edu) |
| 22:50.19 | JeffM2501 | world weapons fire shots, that's it |
| 22:52.15 | *** join/#bzflag Gearth (n=1893fc56@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 22:54.16 | pacman87 | JeffM2501: should i submit a patch for the center crosshair, or just leave it until the whole thing gets changed? |
| 22:55.07 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-051-141.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 22:55.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 22:56.55 | JeffM2501 | pacman87: the crosshair + boxes would be odd |
| 22:57.48 | pacman87 | it's still progress :) |
| 22:58.14 | JeffM2501 | I'd rather have bugs fixed first |
| 22:59.23 | pacman87 | i was also thinking about trying to add link support to define/group in .bzw's |
| 23:08.39 | TD-Linux | I managed to get bzflag playable again by turning off shadows |
| 23:08.52 | TD-Linux | now I might start messing with it again during spring break :) |
| 23:18.19 | *** join/#bzflag hdworak (n=hdworak@2001:0:53aa:64c:145b:b5f:2a38:3c9a) |
| 23:20.06 | hdworak | hi! |
| 23:20.32 | whodaman- | howdy |
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