| 00:00.08 | blast007 | you'd simply have the list server talk to bzauthd to check authentication |
| 00:00.08 | JeffM | the list part is simple, so if you have multiple auth servers it makes sense to share the list data too and end up with multiple list servers |
| 00:00.12 | blast007 | and the client would talk to bzauthd before talking to the list |
| 00:00.22 | JeffM | combinging them makes a lot of sense |
| 00:00.32 | JeffM | as they have very similar useage profiles |
| 00:00.41 | JeffM | clients and servers talk to it |
| 00:00.48 | JeffM | and need another one if the main goes down |
| 00:01.16 | JeffM | I mean in the end the list needs to be made redundant some way too |
| 00:01.40 | JeffM | so implementing 2 redundancy systems that basicly do the same thing just with difrent data seems... silly |
| 00:01.41 | blast007 | and both auth and list will store their data in LDAP, more than likely |
| 00:01.49 | JeffM | and that's perfectly fine |
| 00:02.23 | JeffM | unless there is some HUGE advantage to having them be seperate, I say keep em together |
| 00:02.38 | JeffM | I mean no mater what we have to have an HTTP list server that does auth for 2.0.x clients |
| 00:02.46 | JeffM | using the new data backend |
| 00:02.59 | JeffM | at least for a year or so |
| 00:03.05 | JeffM | probably longer |
| 00:04.02 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 00:05.59 | brlcad | wow, yeah, that was bad form on the list |
| 00:06.10 | JeffM | very |
| 00:06.15 | brlcad | catches up whilest munching on pizza |
| 00:07.01 | brlcad | they probably just halfed their chances for next year |
| 00:07.02 | Winny | don't get oil on the keys! |
| 00:07.26 | JeffM | brlcad, that is very generous |
| 00:14.48 | JeffM | brlcad, the fact that he did it in list AND in channel |
| 00:14.54 | JeffM | does not bode well |
| 00:15.12 | brlcad | true |
| 00:15.30 | brlcad | and his followup wasnt much better |
| 00:15.50 | JeffM | hey look, a mentor dashboard.. that looks familar |
| 00:16.15 | brlcad | notes he still doesnt get notified |
| 00:16.29 | JeffM | I can't see any other mentors in it |
| 00:16.37 | JeffM | just an empty list of applications |
| 00:17.18 | brlcad | odd |
| 00:17.34 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.106.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 00:17.44 | donny_baker | JeffM: i applied, so it shouldn't be empty :P |
| 00:18.24 | JeffM | donny_baker, you can travel in time? |
| 00:18.48 | blast007 | only on Tuesdays |
| 00:18.48 | brlcad | everyone is signed in except blast007 |
| 00:18.58 | JeffM | he's doing so now |
| 00:19.00 | KTL | (yes but forward with a constant speed) |
| 00:19.02 | JeffM | cus he's a slacker |
| 00:19.27 | blast007 | and mines in now |
| 00:19.29 | JeffM | KTL, he would have to come back in time from the future to have applied |
| 00:19.31 | blast007 | pending, anyway |
| 00:19.51 | brlcad | scotty is beamed up |
| 00:19.55 | blast007 | hehe |
| 00:20.03 | JeffM | brlcad, ZisUp.org is available ;) |
| 00:20.10 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:20.59 | KTL | "travelling in time with a speed" speed is defined as distance per time ... /me thinks |
| 00:22.04 | KTL | our speed is +1 time unit /time unit |
| 00:22.41 | KTL | don't bother :D |
| 00:23.42 | spldart | 32 feet per second per second.....SPLAT!!!! |
| 00:24.44 | JeffM | ooo ZisUpDamnit.org is also available |
| 00:25.11 | Winny | I can't even figure out how to pronouce that correctly |
| 00:25.33 | JeffM | ZEEE IS UP DAMNIT |
| 00:25.38 | JeffM | dot org |
| 00:25.53 | Winny | oh, I kept trying to say "zis" as a word... doh |
| 00:26.02 | KTL | is the n in damnit to be pronounced? |
| 00:26.23 | KTL | never understood that :D |
| 00:26.28 | Winny | JeffM: you'd need to share that domain with the blender folks ;) |
| 00:26.36 | JeffM | KTL, in this case, yes it is |
| 00:26.41 | JeffM | Winny, no the CS peple |
| 00:26.45 | JeffM | people |
| 00:27.09 | JeffM | I do wonder how many CMSs and wikis and blogs that google had to weed thru this time |
| 00:27.55 | *** join/#bzflag Ignition (n=47ada8d5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:28.01 | blast007 | hello Ignition |
| 00:28.11 | Ignition | hiii |
| 00:28.28 | Ignition | this is where all the cool kids hide, eh? |
| 00:28.40 | blast007 | depends on your definition of cool ;) |
| 00:28.42 | JeffM | no we beat them up and sent them home |
| 00:28.56 | Winny | and give THEM wedgies for a change |
| 00:29.02 | donny_baker | and hardly any of us are kids |
| 00:29.12 | Ignition | oh. |
| 00:29.17 | Winny | I have a really weird mental image right now |
| 00:29.28 | Ignition | of what? |
| 00:29.29 | JeffM | Winny, right now? |
| 00:29.32 | JeffM | you always do |
| 00:29.32 | Ignition | meno? |
| 00:29.36 | Ignition | haha |
| 00:29.46 | Winny | JeffM: rickroll is playing in my head 24/7, duh |
| 00:29.48 | JeffM | make a shirt design of it |
| 00:29.53 | JeffM | Winny, exactly |
| 00:30.46 | JeffM | brlcad, given the volmes of shirts that google does, it would not suprise me if they use who we ended up going with. |
| 00:36.43 | *** join/#bzflag CupcakeM (n=cupcakem@hlfxns01bbg-142177232129.ns.aliant.net) |
| 00:37.08 | spldart | curses winny for continuing to hint to rickroll and causing that darn old toon to roll through my head |
| 00:37.30 | Winny | ;) |
| 00:37.33 | JeffM | wonder if chanserv can be made to autokick on the term |
| 00:37.35 | spldart | Your not even old enough to remember when that was popular are you? |
| 00:37.41 | Winny | I am the master of the subtle arts! |
| 00:37.59 | spldart | whips out the 'silent but deadly' |
| 00:38.17 | Winny | JeffM: then I can just say "r1ckr0ll" ;) |
| 00:38.29 | spldart | ooOOoo.. how 1337 of you |
| 00:38.39 | spldart | */sarcasm |
| 00:38.41 | JeffM | the cool thing is that I have a hurristic proccessor on my filter |
| 00:38.41 | spldart | :) |
| 00:38.44 | Erroneous | Winny: I'm sure it can be set up to kick for leet |
| 00:38.49 | Winny | bah |
| 00:38.51 | Winny | runs |
| 00:38.54 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 00:39.43 | JeffM2501 | man I wish gmail did folders |
| 00:39.47 | spldart | blesses JeffM with the super saiyan power of coders around the world for throwing up lyrics of other tunes than the aforementioned |
| 00:40.00 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: labels! |
| 00:40.06 | Winny | JeffM2501: search :) |
| 00:40.06 | JeffM2501 | dbz refreences are a capital offence |
| 00:40.07 | Erroneous | they're better than folders |
| 00:40.27 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, not when I want to see a list of stuff that dosn't have a label |
| 00:40.46 | Erroneous | huh? |
| 00:40.53 | Erroneous | instead of creating folders, create labels |
| 00:40.57 | JeffM2501 | I did |
| 00:41.05 | JeffM2501 | yet the main view still has all the emails in order |
| 00:41.14 | JeffM2501 | I want to hide the ones that I have labeled |
| 00:41.32 | Erroneous | ahh |
| 00:41.49 | JeffM2501 | like filter rules that throw crap into folders in outlook |
| 00:42.00 | JeffM2501 | I have rules flaging some stuff with a label |
| 00:42.04 | JeffM2501 | and that is fine |
| 00:42.06 | JeffM2501 | I like that |
| 00:42.09 | blast007 | use outlook then ;) |
| 00:42.19 | JeffM2501 | but I'd like to ether be able to sort by label, or hide specific lables |
| 00:42.22 | donny_baker | JeffM2501: archive the labeled ones |
| 00:42.39 | blast007 | there's that star thingy too |
| 00:42.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah I see the start |
| 00:42.52 | JeffM2501 | that's not good enough |
| 00:42.55 | JeffM2501 | the archive may do it |
| 00:42.57 | JeffM2501 | that won't delete them? |
| 00:43.10 | donny_baker | even archived mail shows up when you click on a label.. .just moves it out of the inbox |
| 00:43.28 | JeffM2501 | ok then that will work |
| 00:43.59 | JeffM2501 | thanks |
| 00:44.09 | donny_baker | JeffM2501: the only purpose I've found for archive is to clean the inbox... they still hang around in "All Mail" |
| 00:44.23 | donny_baker | np |
| 00:44.54 | JeffM2501 | can they still be unread and archived? |
| 00:46.44 | donny_baker | good question, have never done that.. try it |
| 00:46.50 | JeffM2501 | I did with one filter |
| 00:46.53 | donny_baker | you can always move em back |
| 00:47.29 | JeffM2501 | what I'd like is the store orders to get labled, and archived, but not marked as unread, and then the unread count show in bold next to the label section |
| 00:47.32 | Erroneous | yes, messages can be archived before they are read |
| 00:47.36 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 00:47.48 | Erroneous | auto-archives commit messages |
| 00:48.03 | Erroneous | that way they're all searchable, but not in my way |
| 00:48.48 | donny_baker | JeffM2501: set up a rule.. i think it can do it all for you automatically iirc |
| 00:48.53 | JeffM2501 | yeah I did |
| 00:49.02 | JeffM2501 | it just wasn't archiving them |
| 00:59.08 | *** join/#bzflag Lukstr (n=Lukstr@206-248-157-113.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:01.53 | JeffM2501 | soo.... blast007 how ya doin ? ;) |
| 01:03.48 | blast007 | hmm? |
| 01:03.57 | Winny | pssst, I think he wants something |
| 01:04.01 | Winny | run! |
| 01:04.01 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 01:04.12 | JeffM2501 | so... the CIA Rss script.... :) |
| 01:04.16 | blast007 | Winny: well duh, already figured that ;) |
| 01:04.25 | JeffM2501 | any way to make it parse out the commiter? |
| 01:04.33 | JeffM2501 | and throw it in as bold text? |
| 01:04.39 | blast007 | probably |
| 01:05.04 | JeffM2501 | think it's hard/worth it? |
| 01:05.58 | JeffM2501 | I mean I can fake it using the last thing you did to the script |
| 01:06.04 | JeffM2501 | and do a box per student |
| 01:06.06 | JeffM2501 | probalby will do that |
| 01:06.17 | JeffM2501 | but it'd be nice to have the project one have the commiters too |
| 01:06.22 | JeffM2501 | so we can see if mentors helped |
| 01:06.33 | Winny | this would also be useful for the drupal template :) |
| 01:06.48 | JeffM2501 | it wuld be usefull for many things |
| 01:06.52 | JeffM2501 | for many projects |
| 01:07.04 | blast007 | Winny: the drupal will want a better implementation, probably |
| 01:07.15 | JeffM2501 | the current one is somewhat of a hack IIRC |
| 01:07.17 | blast007 | this is just a cheap hack for when we don't have access to the PHP directly |
| 01:07.18 | JeffM2501 | doc.write |
| 01:07.38 | blast007 | it at least caches the RSS now though |
| 01:07.46 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 01:07.49 | JeffM2501 | well it's worked fine |
| 01:08.29 | JeffM2501 | it's really cool that just throwning it into a blogspot frame makes it work, and pick up the CSS theme and everything |
| 01:09.30 | blast007 | hmm, I could make it show the SVN revision and the files that were modified too, if you want |
| 01:09.36 | blast007 | more like how CIA shows it on here |
| 01:09.48 | JeffM2501 | that could be double plus cool |
| 01:10.00 | JeffM2501 | tho we get that if we click the link |
| 01:10.07 | blast007 | yeah |
| 01:10.09 | blast007 | your call |
| 01:10.11 | JeffM2501 | I'd just maybe do project and commiter |
| 01:10.15 | JeffM2501 | to not cluter it up |
| 01:10.16 | blast007 | I can pull the username out of that part |
| 01:10.31 | JeffM2501 | ooo I know |
| 01:10.43 | JeffM2501 | if it's a project link, then show the commiter |
| 01:10.53 | JeffM2501 | if it's a personal link, show the project |
| 01:11.04 | blast007 | ah, okay |
| 01:11.14 | JeffM2501 | so if I do it for bzflag ( the default with no parms ) have it show the people |
| 01:11.25 | JeffM2501 | if I pass in the user param, have it show the project |
| 01:11.30 | JeffM2501 | that'd be usefull |
| 01:11.31 | blast007 | so you want the SVN rev too? or not? |
| 01:11.37 | JeffM2501 | I don't think so |
| 01:11.39 | blast007 | ok |
| 01:11.45 | JeffM2501 | for projects it just go in order ;) |
| 01:12.00 | JeffM2501 | and the click is fine for that |
| 01:19.00 | *** join/#bzflag noyb_ (n=noyb@pool-71-119-173-104.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 01:19.00 | blast007 | JeffM2501: done |
| 01:20.07 | blast007 | or did I do it backwards.. |
| 01:20.10 | blast007 | yeah, I did |
| 01:21.21 | JeffM2501 | and blast continues to kick ass |
| 01:21.30 | blast007 | there we go |
| 01:21.48 | JeffM2501 | that's friggin nice ;) |
| 01:21.49 | JeffM2501 | thanks |
| 01:21.53 | blast007 | np |
| 01:22.16 | JeffM2501 | goes home |
| 01:22.34 | blast007 | hmm, I wonder if it was -set and /reset on a windows built of bzfs that was broken... |
| 01:25.50 | blast007 | anyone have a recent Windows build of 2.99.x that can confirm that running this: bzfs -set _tankSpeed 500 |
| 01:25.56 | blast007 | does not actually set the speed to 500? |
| 01:27.28 | Erroneous | blast007: I was running a windows build when I tested |
| 01:27.33 | blast007 | hmm |
| 01:27.40 | blast007 | well, I'm rebuilding mine to check |
| 01:27.45 | blast007 | what version of VC? |
| 01:27.48 | Erroneous | 8 |
| 01:27.50 | blast007 | I'm on 7.1 |
| 01:27.53 | spldart | my win xp build of 2.99 is yesterday evening |
| 01:27.57 | spldart | 8 |
| 01:27.59 | blast007 | not that it should really matter |
| 01:28.32 | Constitution | -set doesn't work on Mac either |
| 01:29.37 | blast007 | Constitution: try a /set in game, and then try to /reset it |
| 01:29.47 | blast007 | by both the variable name, and using * |
| 01:29.56 | Constitution | k |
| 01:30.33 | spldart | umm... can I join my server with a windows client then -set_tankSpeed 500 then /reset? |
| 01:30.46 | spldart | my bzfs is linux.. client windows |
| 01:31.03 | spldart | In other words are you testing bzfs or client 2.99 |
| 01:31.29 | blast007 | spldart: both ;) |
| 01:31.33 | spldart | oh |
| 01:31.35 | blast007 | it could be a client issue |
| 01:31.54 | spldart | lemmne test my orientation of this |
| 01:31.57 | blast007 | maybe it's not receiving the updates properly, or the server isn't sending that (at all, or correctly) |
| 01:32.16 | blast007 | it worked on my linux server with a windows client, though |
| 01:32.21 | blast007 | not with both a window server and client |
| 01:32.22 | Constitution | blast007: appears to work |
| 01:32.32 | blast007 | Constitution: okay |
| 01:32.37 | blast007 | but -set does not? |
| 01:32.49 | Constitution | lemme confirm that |
| 01:33.20 | *** join/#bzflag pizzahead (n=4a4c7875@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:33.21 | Constitution | hmm, actually looks like it does now |
| 01:33.23 | spldart | (Ok |
| 01:33.28 | pizzahead | hello all |
| 01:33.30 | spldart | Windows 2.99 client |
| 01:33.37 | spldart | bzfs 2.99 on linux |
| 01:33.40 | Constitution | there was an update to CommandManager.cxx since I tried... wonder if that did it |
| 01:33.46 | spldart | I can /set tankspeed 500 |
| 01:33.50 | spldart | and it's fast |
| 01:34.00 | spldart | and I can /reset _tankspeed and it's normal |
| 01:34.33 | spldart | windows client is up to date... linux servers is from friday |
| 01:35.32 | blast007 | my server/client from the 11th |
| 01:35.40 | blast007 | I -set _tankSpeed, and it didn't work |
| 01:35.45 | blast007 | entered via the client |
| 01:35.52 | blast007 | ran /set _gravity -50 |
| 01:35.58 | blast007 | it took hold in a /diff |
| 01:36.00 | spldart | Ah... mine are newer but it appears I'm same orientation... linux server windows client ATM |
| 01:36.17 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 01:36.38 | blast007 | after I /reset _gravity, then _lgGravity and _wgGravity were showing in /diff as the wrong values |
| 01:36.49 | blast007 | they used _gravity in their equation, but were using 50 |
| 01:36.54 | blast007 | but _gravity reset |
| 01:37.13 | blast007 | going to let the rebuild finish, and see if the results match up |
| 01:37.14 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@adsl-66-124-220-6.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 01:37.55 | Epyon | Soooo, what't the official news? |
| 01:38.11 | Epyon | begs for forgiveness, he's totaly drunk now. |
| 01:38.27 | *** join/#bzflag Marzipan_ (n=Marzipan@84.119.55.224) |
| 01:38.27 | JeffM | Epyon, we failed |
| 01:38.37 | JeffM | they actualy want the money back from last year |
| 01:38.41 | JeffM | it sucks |
| 01:38.44 | Think_Differentl | rickroll? |
| 01:38.53 | Constitution | JeffM: FYI, we can see your host when you join |
| 01:39.02 | JeffM | Constitution, so? |
| 01:39.04 | Constitution | in case you care |
| 01:39.14 | JeffM | yes please hack this coffie shop ;) |
| 01:39.33 | JeffM | the laptop isn't set to auto ID |
| 01:39.40 | Epyon | JeffM, I wouldn't trust you even if you said that New Years is going to be the 1st of January this year xP |
| 01:39.43 | Constitution | generally when one bothers to set up a mask they want to use it |
| 01:40.00 | Constitution | oh, I see |
| 01:40.06 | JeffM | I did no such thing to setup a mask ;) |
| 01:40.12 | JeffM | it was pushed on me I tell you! |
| 01:40.32 | spldart | hehe |
| 01:40.32 | JeffM | silly freenode admins that are also my friends |
| 01:41.01 | Epyon | If Constitution would say that I'd be seriously worried :P |
| 01:41.15 | Constitution | shoudl have made it pdpc/supporter/supporter/JeffM2501/InDenial ;) |
| 01:41.22 | Constitution | Epyon: careful, very dangerous |
| 01:41.34 | Constitution | er, wow |
| 01:41.42 | Constitution | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:41.49 | JeffM | Epyonit's also in the topic |
| 01:42.12 | Epyon | Constitution, you were one of the rare kind of people that cared for BZWG last year :P |
| 01:42.29 | Constitution | heh |
| 01:42.36 | Epyon | JeffM, I see no Epyon in the topic xP |
| 01:42.56 | JeffM | Constitution, I got this when I stoped using JeffM2501, I had to reclaim JeffM |
| 01:43.06 | JeffM | Epyon, "it" is in the topic ;) |
| 01:43.45 | JeffM | so I had to get a freenode admin to expire the name so I could reg it |
| 01:43.55 | Epyon | Forgive me if I talk bullshit now while I'm drunk, and the more if I rape the english language, but JeffM can tell that even if I'm drunk I hold my word :P |
| 01:43.58 | JeffM | and she gave me the cloak at the sime time |
| 01:44.05 | JeffM | Epyon, language please |
| 01:44.14 | JeffM | but yes, we were accepted ;) |
| 01:44.17 | Epyon | bullshit? |
| 01:44.25 | JeffM | tha'd be one of em |
| 01:44.32 | JeffM | there were 2 |
| 01:44.35 | *** join/#bzflag bz74 (n=d24be18c@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:44.54 | Epyon | Duh, I saw lh use the word "fuck" on #gsoc, and no one was angry xP |
| 01:45.01 | Constitution | eh |
| 01:45.01 | JeffM | dude |
| 01:45.03 | JeffM | stop |
| 01:45.12 | JeffM | we have diferent rules then that channel |
| 01:45.23 | Epyon | JeffM, sorry, that was a quote, wont happen again :) |
| 01:45.26 | IceWewe | woo! angry people! |
| 01:45.53 | JeffM | Epyon, good enough, this channel is considered famialy friendly, same as the boards |
| 01:45.54 | blast007 | gets the napalm and melts IceWewe |
| 01:45.58 | Epyon | JeffM, all things considered, yopu may be right. |
| 01:46.06 | IceWewe | retreats into the caverns of silence once again |
| 01:46.27 | JeffM | blast007, who? |
| 01:46.29 | Constitution | the ones who *make* the rules are always right when they discuss them :) |
| 01:46.38 | blast007 | JeffM: what? |
| 01:46.44 | JeffM | blast007, exactly |
| 01:46.50 | JeffM | Constitution, I did not make them |
| 01:46.56 | Epyon | But maaan, don't make me feel like in my 4th year of eamerican highscool where "damn" was considered swearing D: |
| 01:47.13 | JeffM | I do not consider that a curse word |
| 01:47.46 | JeffM | it is used in enough common english that the majority would not be offended by it |
| 01:47.49 | JeffM | and it's on TV |
| 01:47.52 | Epyon | That makes me feel a *little* better :). As long as you don't consider "hell" a curse word too :P |
| 01:47.58 | JeffM | it is also not used in an offensive manner |
| 01:48.04 | JeffM | no |
| 01:48.06 | JeffM | hell no |
| 01:48.50 | Epyon | JeffM, believe my absolute astonishment when my Wnglish IV honors teacher was angry at me for it :P |
| 01:48.58 | Epyon | English* |
| 01:49.00 | spldart | [eric cartman] N/M [/eric cartman] |
| 01:49.20 | JeffM | Epyon, to each there own |
| 01:49.33 | IceWewe | grows tired of this waiting game... |
| 01:49.36 | Epyon | I had to finish it with an -o there :P |
| 01:49.42 | *** part/#bzflag IceWewe (n=untitled@unaffiliated/icewewe) |
| 01:50.05 | blast007 | okay, yes, -set does *not* work |
| 01:50.12 | JeffM | what a maroon |
| 01:50.14 | blast007 | but /reset does |
| 01:50.32 | spldart | in windows client? |
| 01:50.41 | spldart | err |
| 01:50.44 | spldart | windows server |
| 01:50.47 | blast007 | and when I use -set, then /set it to something else, and /reset it, it goes back the what it was *supposed* to be set to via -set |
| 01:50.49 | blast007 | ues |
| 01:50.49 | blast007 | yes& |
| 01:50.51 | Epyon | JeffM, still I can't find the other word beside "sh*t" in my initial statement that made your reaction D: |
| 01:50.58 | Epyon | rape? |
| 01:50.58 | blast007 | windows client and server |
| 01:51.03 | spldart | pooop |
| 01:51.04 | JeffM | Epyon, please stop saying them |
| 01:51.12 | JeffM | and yes |
| 01:51.13 | spldart | I haven't used bzfs in windows in years :( |
| 01:51.20 | JeffM | it is not funny |
| 01:51.33 | Epyon | JeffM, but that's like a normal word in the dictionary D: |
| 01:51.40 | JeffM | Epyon, so are many things |
| 01:51.54 | spldart | Dude! is it limit pushing time? |
| 01:52.04 | JeffM | apereanlly |
| 01:52.18 | Epyon | JeffM, I'm sorry if I offended you, but it's the first time that I learned that that word could be offensive :/ |
| 01:52.30 | spldart | raises hand |
| 01:52.33 | JeffM | Epyon, how could that word be anything but? |
| 01:52.45 | JeffM | it is never used in a good conotation |
| 01:52.52 | JeffM | now you know |
| 01:52.56 | JeffM | so it's all over |
| 01:53.19 | Epyon | I heard that word used in completely non-sexually-assault related manner, that is why it is wierd to me :/ I never thought of it as offensive :/ |
| 01:53.57 | Epyon | Ok, white flag, I give up, but I'd still like to hear the story off-channel. |
| 01:54.00 | JeffM | you were using to desribe the battery and violation of the subject you applied it to ;) |
| 01:54.05 | spldart | A user, by any other name, would be just as much a limit pusher. LOL... I've known thee by many a name |
| 01:54.56 | Epyon | JeffM, it's a valuable lesson for me, because if not, I could probably use it in some buisness meeting without knowing the consequences :) |
| 01:55.20 | JeffM | yeah it's not a word to throw around casualy |
| 01:55.37 | Epyon | And I'd be f.... reaking sorry if I did that afterwards xP |
| 01:56.21 | JeffM | it's called 'tact' ;) |
| 01:56.25 | Epyon | Duh, that's the problem of learning english off the street and not from a teacher :/ |
| 01:57.14 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (i=blast@pdpc/supporter/active/blast007) |
| 01:57.14 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v blast007_] by ChanServ |
| 01:58.32 | Epyon | But I am honestly grateful for such lessons even if I initialy sound annoyed by "restricting my freedom of speech" :P |
| 01:58.50 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (n=dbharris@bas1-toronto48-1279276205.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:58.54 | JeffM | noone ever said you had that here ;) |
| 01:59.07 | JeffM | bzflag ain't no democracy |
| 01:59.23 | JeffM | it is a kindom with no walls |
| 01:59.24 | Epyon | I want to be able to write that english is my second native language after all :P |
| 02:00.17 | JeffM | the king unfortonately spends all his time elsewhere, and 3 advisors have goten hold of the keys to the castle |
| 02:00.27 | Epyon | :D |
| 02:01.23 | JeffM | home again home again.. |
| 02:02.19 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-151-201-220-46.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:02.39 | spldart | jiggity jig? |
| 02:02.49 | Epyon | Anyway, I'm really happy for you guys that you got into GSoC again. Even if I don't make it this year it's still a chance for BZF to play a role in current gaming affairs :) |
| 02:03.38 | Epyon | Yaaaay, Thousand Parsec also made it :D |
| 02:04.24 | Epyon | Any other gaming projects in? |
| 02:04.44 | DTRemenak | Battle for Wesnoth, ScummVM, Worldforge |
| 02:05.03 | Epyon | Wesnoth? |
| 02:05.14 | DTRemenak | http://wesnoth.org/ |
| 02:05.19 | Epyon | I might take a look at it this year |
| 02:05.29 | Epyon | I know, I know, I played it :P |
| 02:05.41 | Epyon | But it kinda' bored me :/ |
| 02:06.38 | Epyon | Under what ma,e are they on the list? |
| 02:06.43 | Epyon | name* |
| 02:06.45 | Epyon | dammit |
| 02:07.26 | DTRemenak | as "Battle for Wesnoth" |
| 02:07.30 | DTRemenak | ... |
| 02:07.31 | Constitution | lol |
| 02:07.35 | DTRemenak | http://code.google.com/soc/2008/wesnoth/about.html |
| 02:07.37 | Epyon | Okay, I see. |
| 02:08.01 | Epyon | I wonder what they'd say about proceduraly generated scenarios -_- |
| 02:08.41 | DTRemenak | if I were them, I'd be interested. TP was interested in your app last year too iirc. |
| 02:09.16 | Epyon | I know DTRemenak, but proceduraly generated starship designs still scare the hell out of me :P |
| 02:09.28 | DTRemenak | scary projects are the fun ones! :) |
| 02:09.42 | Epyon | That's why I submitted it x{ |
| 02:10.11 | Epyon | Okay, Wesnoth goes on my list now, after BZF but before TP |
| 02:30.32 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-218-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:38.22 | JeffM | sticks it to the man, and makes gravy with out the lumps |
| 02:46.06 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@cpe-72-190-35-98.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:01.02 | *** join/#bzflag compbrain (i=wan@pdpc/supporter/student/CompBrain) |
| 03:24.53 | brlcad | two other games missed them in the first read |
| 03:25.06 | brlcad | worldforge and secondlife |
| 03:28.55 | spldart | Poop... who was I talking to about the pretty colors on irssi? |
| 03:29.10 | JeffM | brlcad: do they do z as up? |
| 03:29.12 | JeffM | ;) |
| 03:29.44 | brlcad | heh |
| 03:29.46 | brlcad | dunno |
| 03:30.07 | JeffM | loved the fact that carter named the pre-gate plasma blast the "kawwoosh" |
| 03:30.18 | brlcad | aww, you saw it |
| 03:30.27 | brlcad | should see if they restocked tomorrow |
| 03:30.28 | JeffM | no |
| 03:30.34 | JeffM | I'm on season 10 |
| 03:30.38 | brlcad | ah, heh |
| 03:30.41 | JeffM | that was from season 9 |
| 03:33.25 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=james@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 03:34.29 | spldart | meh have alot of catching u to do |
| 03:34.50 | short_circuit | C'mon netflix |
| 03:55.06 | Epyon | Soooo, three orgs to apply this year :P (/me just finished a long-distance intercontinental call xP) |
| 04:34.06 | *** join/#bzflag spyfeng (n=lc@210.75.225.140) |
| 04:47.39 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 05:30.36 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) |
| 05:30.41 | jude- | hello all |
| 05:31.12 | L4m3r | evening, jude- |
| 05:31.28 | jude- | hey L4m3r |
| 05:33.19 | Epyon | jude-, BZF has been accepted :P |
| 05:33.48 | jude- | So I've read :) |
| 05:33.54 | jude- | congratulations :) |
| 05:34.10 | jude- | I also see that BRL-CAD has also been accepted |
| 05:34.55 | brlcad | yes it has :) |
| 05:34.57 | Epyon | Oh yeah, I forgot to congratulate brlcad on that too :P |
| 05:35.09 | Epyon | brlcad, congratz ^2 :P |
| 05:35.12 | brlcad | thanks |
| 05:36.45 | jude- | hmmm...Google said they've run out of internship slots this year :/ |
| 05:36.50 | Epyon | Well I will be thinking on my BZWG app tommorow. And also some more "traditional" app, just to increase my chance of getting into BZF, I'd rather not change my org this year -_- |
| 05:38.29 | brlcad | hopes jude- and Epyon consider applying to BRL-CAD as well ;) |
| 05:38.53 | jude- | will have to take a look :) |
| 05:40.41 | Epyon | brlcad, I'd love, but suggest something that would benefit brl-cad that is in my area of expertise :( |
| 05:42.01 | brlcad | Epyon: given just about anything that comes up at siggraph is within our domain, that shouldn't be too hard to do |
| 05:42.30 | brlcad | otherwise, check out our ideas page (particularly the link in the first sentance) |
| 05:43.23 | Epyon | brlcad, my interests are procedural geometry and games, and that doesn't go well with brl-cad does it? :( |
| 05:46.08 | jude- | may be able to help with the STEP parser, using his experience in creating a .bzw parser from sparce documentation |
| 05:50.50 | Epyon | Unfortunately none of the official proposals is even close to my ionterests :( |
| 05:52.27 | brlcad | Epyon: we have an entire API dedicated to procedural geometry |
| 05:53.29 | brlcad | jude-: the STEP specification makes .bzw seem like crontab syntax |
| 05:54.34 | brlcad | I have a printed copy of a portion of the standard relevant to CAD files sitting under my desk.. all 10,000 pages of it |
| 05:55.14 | jude- | O.o |
| 05:55.37 | Epyon | brlcad, if you'd want some work on that... I'd gladly apply :P |
| 05:55.40 | jude- | maybe not then |
| 05:55.53 | jude- | I'll wait till after I take the compiler class |
| 05:56.20 | Epyon | is still working on the procedural planet generator that incorporates.... people... |
| 05:56.21 | brlcad | jude-: hehe, much of it is just verbosity -- nist makes a hell of a lot of it easier since they already provide an EXPRESS parser |
| 05:56.44 | brlcad | well, if you guys do get serious in preparing something, stop by the channel or mailing list |
| 05:57.06 | jude- | sure |
| 05:57.13 | jude- | but after I write my BZFlag app :) |
| 05:57.32 | brlcad | absolutely |
| 05:58.05 | brlcad | more important for returning devs to get their apps right |
| 05:58.22 | jude- | *cough*bzwb*cough* |
| 05:58.23 | brlcad | there's a lot more focus this year on picking project that will lead to even better long-term contributor status |
| 05:58.43 | brlcad | getting everyone working more fluidly with the code and other devs |
| 05:58.48 | brlcad | integrating better |
| 05:59.13 | jude- | so I've read in the GSoC 2007 write-up :) |
| 05:59.23 | Epyon | No one maybe except Constitution and L4m3r seems to care about BZWGen anyway so I'll consider :) |
| 05:59.28 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@pool-71-109-218-124.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 05:59.42 | jude- | hey JeffM |
| 05:59.42 | blast007 | Epyon: I've played with it as well |
| 05:59.49 | JeffM | hey |
| 05:59.57 | jude- | Epyon: me too, once or twice |
| 06:00.01 | JeffM | brlcad, you forgot to add "don't be a putz" |
| 06:00.23 | Epyon | blast007, the sad truth however is that no BZWG server is running atm :( |
| 06:00.33 | jude- | Epyon: start one ;) |
| 06:00.35 | blast007 | I had one running for a while |
| 06:00.40 | blast007 | I can fire it up ;) |
| 06:01.12 | Epyon | blast007, don't do that just for my sake :P |
| 06:01.27 | blast007 | it's as simple as ./run :P |
| 06:01.37 | Epyon | Although L4m3r had one nice idea that I'd like to induldge with him |
| 06:01.52 | L4m3r | over spring break, perhaps |
| 06:02.06 | L4m3r | IMO BZWG is a more academic project than anything |
| 06:02.13 | blast007 | I already have a script that grabs the newest source, builds bzwgen, generates a world, and runs the map |
| 06:02.14 | Epyon | D: |
| 06:02.18 | L4m3r | its uses are very specific |
| 06:02.33 | Epyon | L4m3r, I didn't want it that way :( |
| 06:02.38 | L4m3r | that's not necessarily a bad thing :) |
| 06:02.56 | Epyon | I wanted it to be a *better* alternative to the current random map :( |
| 06:03.07 | Epyon | But I guess I went overboard :( |
| 06:03.13 | jude- | Epyon: what if BZWG was integrated into the single-player mode for BZFlag? |
| 06:03.14 | L4m3r | well, I think you've accomplished that much |
| 06:03.29 | L4m3r | but that is a pretty low bar to set, don't you think? random maps stink :) |
| 06:03.36 | blast007 | jude-: there isn't really any "single player mode" ;) |
| 06:03.38 | L4m3r | (the bzflag ones, that is) |
| 06:03.49 | JeffM | bzflag is a poor game with out the other players |
| 06:03.50 | L4m3r | that's a good idea though jude- |
| 06:03.58 | Epyon | L4m3r, nope, there are no bzwg maps running, but there are many random ones :/ |
| 06:04.13 | L4m3r | yeah, but are people PLAYING the random ones? heck no :P |
| 06:04.20 | brlcad | Epyon: the problem with bzwgen is what I've said a half dozen times over already |
| 06:04.26 | jude- | blast007: I mean, one can set up BZFlag to control bots against a single player with a CLI option...maybe there could be a panel in BZFlag that allows the user to invoke BZWG to create a random map |
| 06:04.37 | L4m3r | I'd attribute most random map servers to lazy server ops, with the exception of ducati |
| 06:04.38 | Epyon | L4m3r, we used to play those like *all the time* at the uni :P |
| 06:04.39 | brlcad | has little to do with the features and almost everything to do with usability, integration, and production quality |
| 06:04.55 | brlcad | it's not in their hands and integrated into what they already use/know |
| 06:05.03 | blast007 | jude-: it's still running a server, so just integrate it into the server, or as a plugin |
| 06:05.08 | brlcad | if it were, it would be in use more readily I believe |
| 06:05.10 | JeffM | and it has concepts that are hard to follow |
| 06:05.18 | L4m3r | it's an interesting thought... though... |
| 06:05.21 | jude- | blast007: that would work :) |
| 06:05.32 | Epyon | brlcad, it's be a world of difference if it's be a plugin in the standard distro :/ |
| 06:05.47 | L4m3r | we could make a little "home server kit" or something to make bzwgen maps for LAN games |
| 06:05.50 | JeffM | jude-, for that you need good fun bots, none of those exist yet |
| 06:05.57 | blast007 | Epyon: there is a BZWGen server running now ;) |
| 06:05.59 | brlcad | if it kicked off cities like bzfs -cr, it'd be used now, bzfs -cr -wgen |
| 06:06.10 | jude- | JeffM: one could try out daxxar's new AI system... |
| 06:06.15 | brlcad | Epyon: a plugin or default integrated |
| 06:06.39 | JeffM | jude-, bzrobots is not complete enougn and no good AI bots are writen |
| 06:06.39 | Epyon | blast007, you've just ran it? xP |
| 06:06.44 | blast007 | yup |
| 06:06.51 | Epyon | :P |
| 06:07.01 | brlcad | either way is just part of being "integrated" instead of something 'external', some outside tool that they have to learn and integrate into their processes differently than everything else |
| 06:07.16 | JeffM | users do not want to have to write code, as brlcad says, it has to be a "run it like this" kinda thing |
| 06:07.25 | jude- | indeed |
| 06:07.26 | brlcad | bzrobots works now (at least non-windows) |
| 06:07.40 | JeffM | brlcad, I neever said it didn't work |
| 06:07.44 | Epyon | JeffM, this is the thing that bothered me most while writing bzwgen :/ |
| 06:07.53 | JeffM | I said it wasn't complete in that it dosn't have enough good fun bots for it |
| 06:08.12 | L4m3r | I almost think we could have a separate API for world generation, to integrate well into the game... but that's nasty, especially when the existing API has the capabilities already |
| 06:08.17 | JeffM | Epyon, well then it could have taken you about an hour to integrate into bzfs |
| 06:08.24 | JeffM | but that's bridge water |
| 06:08.41 | JeffM | L4m3r, we need nothing of the sort |
| 06:08.44 | JeffM | we need one API call |
| 06:08.47 | Epyon | That people just couldn't run it "out of the box"... hell when it was written, the only server that could run it was the SVN one anyway |
| 06:08.51 | JeffM | that sets the world input stream |
| 06:09.26 | JeffM | you can build world generation plugins right now, they just have to write a temp file |
| 06:09.48 | L4m3r | ah, yeah, and run before the world is loaded? |
| 06:09.53 | JeffM | add the API file then you don't need a file, the plugin just generates tehe stream |
| 06:10.00 | JeffM | L4m3r, no it can be run as the server starts |
| 06:10.08 | JeffM | there is an event for "I need the world to load" |
| 06:10.13 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 06:10.15 | JeffM | so install that event |
| 06:10.21 | JeffM | genrate your world |
| 06:10.22 | L4m3r | so just before the world loads, make it |
| 06:10.27 | JeffM | yeah |
| 06:10.39 | JeffM | right now you can only set the path to -world |
| 06:10.45 | JeffM | so you have to use a temp file |
| 06:10.53 | Epyon | That sound more like a hack than a feature -_- |
| 06:10.57 | JeffM | we add an API call, and you can just stream it in |
| 06:11.09 | JeffM | Epyon, the temp file is a limitaiton, but it WOULD work |
| 06:11.16 | JeffM | it was made for map change plugins |
| 06:11.22 | JeffM | the stream would be cleaner |
| 06:11.30 | JeffM | and like I said, it wold have taken you an hour to add |
| 06:11.41 | JeffM | dtr has plans to add it |
| 06:11.45 | JeffM | I did all the other events |
| 06:12.09 | Epyon | Dammit, so why didn't anyone do that yet? |
| 06:12.17 | JeffM | time |
| 06:12.29 | JeffM | and 3.0 aint' goin no where |
| 06:12.38 | Epyon | Hell, if that doesn't change quickly, I'll do that just out of plain cruelty |
| 06:12.56 | JeffM | how is adding a feature to the software "cruel"? |
| 06:12.59 | JeffM | if you want it ADD it |
| 06:13.01 | JeffM | it's not hard |
| 06:13.06 | JeffM | that's what open source is about |
| 06:13.48 | Epyon | Nah, the cruelty will be in the fact that you'll have to live with my code, at leat until someone refactors it cP |
| 06:13.58 | Epyon | least* |
| 06:14.02 | JeffM | or it dies |
| 06:14.14 | JeffM | no skin off our nosses if we don't use it |
| 06:14.29 | JeffM | it is not cruel to us |
| 06:15.07 | JeffM | we have no problem ditching busted code noone wants to maintain ;) |
| 06:15.11 | Epyon | Duh, you got me this time, I admit defeat :P |
| 06:15.16 | JeffM | what do you think happend to 1.8 ;) |
| 06:15.39 | JeffM | Epyon, or you could.. work.. on it |
| 06:18.00 | JeffM | what projects are you going to apply to this year? |
| 06:18.03 | Epyon | I could... and I may, once all the 3ds project are finally submitted -_- |
| 06:19.08 | Epyon | JeffM, basically -- BZWGen and another project that has most chances of success and is in the scope of my skills-- I definitively want to work on BZF again this year |
| 06:19.27 | JeffM | you said you had 3 orgs to apply to? |
| 06:20.16 | Epyon | Now 2 :P |
| 06:20.22 | brlcad | 1.8 was several *years* of effort that was trash-canned |
| 06:20.27 | Epyon | The Wesnoth guys seem uninterested |
| 06:20.28 | JeffM | indeed |
| 06:20.30 | brlcad | person-years at least |
| 06:21.08 | blast007 | and many more in dog-years ;) |
| 06:21.27 | brlcad | Epyon: you came off as bit arrogant to their devs from my perspective, I would have been similarly uninterested :P |
| 06:21.38 | Epyon | I'll probably apply to TP with the Elite-like ruleset again -- just because I love Elite/Frontier so much |
| 06:21.50 | JeffM | you come of a bit arrogant from my perspective, here |
| 06:21.55 | *** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@pool-71-119-173-104.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 06:22.13 | Epyon | brlcad, maybe it was a subconscious unwillingness to change orgs? :P |
| 06:22.36 | JeffM | or..... the truth |
| 06:22.43 | Epyon | brlcad, but yeah, I agree. I'm just an arrogant bi*ch :( |
| 06:22.50 | brlcad | huh? |
| 06:22.55 | brlcad | change orgs? |
| 06:23.21 | Epyon | brlcad, still I believe I can do the tasks that I say I will ;] |
| 06:24.01 | Epyon | brlcad, I'd love to work for bzflag again, and to be honest I'd feel a little awkward to work for another organization this year |
| 06:24.18 | brlcad | Epyon: I don't doubt you do beleive that -- still don't see what you mean though by unwillingness to change orgs though? whats the ref? |
| 06:25.13 | Epyon | I mean I know the channel, I know you guys (at least a little). It'd be more fun for me to stick to BZF again than work on Wesnoth for examplle |
| 06:25.19 | Epyon | example* |
| 06:25.22 | brlcad | oooh |
| 06:25.31 | brlcad | your subconcious unwillingness |
| 06:25.34 | brlcad | got it |
| 06:26.02 | brlcad | maybe, but that'd be kinda twisted .. not so hot to shoot yourself in the foot no matter what the org or the forum :) |
| 06:27.05 | Epyon | I mean my nature is being a arrogant and self-centered bastard that believes he's the center of the world, why would I try so hard to act against my natre if I don't really want to be accepted there? :P |
| 06:27.20 | Epyon | hopes that at least some irony will be noted xP |
| 06:27.22 | JeffM | because it's ... nice |
| 06:27.29 | brlcad | eh, because it's just part of being cordial, effective, and collaborative :-) |
| 06:27.35 | JeffM | civil |
| 06:27.36 | jude- | and social |
| 06:27.37 | brlcad | social skills man |
| 06:27.39 | brlcad | :) |
| 06:27.40 | JeffM | human |
| 06:27.43 | JeffM | all those things |
| 06:28.35 | Epyon | brlcad, give me a couple more days :P |
| 06:29.21 | Epyon | I can show that "This sef-centered bastard has a point though" thing.... |
| 06:29.24 | jude- | Epyon: I know the problem--it's the beer :) |
| 06:29.27 | Epyon | At least I hope xP |
| 06:29.42 | L4m3r | how dare you insult beer on St. Patty's day! |
| 06:29.50 | Epyon | jude-, wha...? I'm no further than the 7th one today D: |
| 06:30.16 | jude- | L4m3r: in 20 minutes, it won't be St. Patrick's Day anymore :)_ |
| 06:30.20 | L4m3r | :\ |
| 06:30.28 | jude- | (for me, at least) |
| 06:30.36 | jude- | Epyon: 7? |
| 06:30.46 | Epyon | It isn't here since 7-8 hours anymore :p |
| 06:30.47 | jude- | how do you stomach it? |
| 06:31.15 | Epyon | Oh the beer? Problems begin at 11-12. |
| 06:31.49 | Epyon | has a typical alvic tolerance for alcohol. |
| 06:31.57 | Epyon | slavic* dammit |
| 06:32.00 | brlcad | Epyon: nobody likes to deal with self-centered bastards over the long term, no matter how good they are -- they don't socially integrate without alienating |
| 06:32.08 | jude- | I don't know anyone who can hold much more than four without feeling drunk |
| 06:32.25 | JeffM | Epyon, it's often not worth it |
| 06:32.38 | Epyon | brlcad, probably true. And I should probably be worried about it. |
| 06:33.16 | JeffM | only if/when you want a real job that is out of school |
| 06:33.28 | Epyon | But it's probably the fact that I wanted to see what's the reaction to the term "procedural" and "random" at the channel. |
| 06:33.54 | Epyon | And the reaction was far less than at #tp |
| 06:34.23 | jude- | what were you expecting? |
| 06:34.28 | Epyon | So I guess that even if they'd be interested, they'd still rank me low in the apps :( |
| 06:35.10 | JeffM | honeslty, here i'd rank more random world stuff lower then the other ideas as well |
| 06:35.18 | Epyon | jude-, well the #tp guys have a lot less to gain from procedural content so I was expecting otherwise |
| 06:35.35 | JeffM | some of there games are text based ;) |
| 06:35.55 | Epyon | JeffM, I know, that's why I'll submit something else too :P |
| 06:36.06 | JeffM | such as? |
| 06:36.48 | brlcad | Epyon: I was hiring at a job fair a couple months ago -- there was a particular geek that was probably one of the best in his class at one of the best universities in the country .. I'd talked with him before and he was very knowledgable and easy to talk to; the second time, however, (a year later) he totally came off as an arrogant CS student full of himself -- guess where his resume went? ... personality is often worth more than raw talent |
| 06:37.09 | Epyon | JeffM, I don't know yet. I'll look around the code, play a few games more, and come up with something that'll be benefactoral for us all |
| 06:37.11 | brlcad | talent can be taught/learned, but if you can't talk to them .. it's pointless |
| 06:37.50 | JeffM | Epyon, heh, all things we asked you to do last year before you even started ;) |
| 06:38.02 | brlcad | not trying to discourage you in the least, just being honest in saying "it does matter" .. it matters a lot in the long term :) |
| 06:38.09 | Epyon | brlcad, I can play a modest and humble employee when I want to :P |
| 06:38.23 | JeffM | play and be are not the same thing |
| 06:38.50 | Epyon | JeffM, you can't change a persons basic nature no matter of the intentions :/ |
| 06:39.00 | JeffM | sure a person can |
| 06:39.04 | JeffM | it's called growing up |
| 06:39.29 | Epyon | JeffM, somehow, I knew you'd bring in the age argument sooner or later xP |
| 06:39.29 | JeffM | humanities nature is to change |
| 06:39.37 | JeffM | age has nothing to do with it |
| 06:39.53 | JeffM | I know many people younger then you who have made the leap |
| 06:40.26 | JeffM | it's all about personal attitude and if you've decided to jump in with the rest of the world, or hold on to shelters. |
| 06:40.52 | Epyon | JeffM, maybe I don't want to "grow up"? Maybe I believe that when I forfeit my arrogance I'll also lose my will to do someting absurd, and beyond my abilities? |
| 06:40.55 | JeffM | everone faces it at some point in live |
| 06:41.18 | JeffM | Epyon, oh it's obvious you don't ;) |
| 06:41.28 | JeffM | dosnt' change the fact that you will have to face it one day ;) |
| 06:41.55 | Epyon | JeffM, probably true, I want to be an arrogant bastard until life will tell me "change or die xP" |
| 06:42.03 | JeffM | simple truth of the universe is that all things change, regardless of how much you want them to stay the same |
| 06:42.24 | JeffM | Epyon, then don't be supprised if that gets in your way of working with others. |
| 06:42.30 | JeffM | that's all we are saying |
| 06:42.56 | DTRemenak | the ability to do something absurd is not dependent on being an arrogant prick ;) |
| 06:43.01 | Epyon | However in my arrogance I can identify it an look beyond it so I guess if one identifies that he can make a use out of me xP |
| 06:43.32 | JeffM | Epyon, it should not be our "job" to have to deal wiht you and the arrogance |
| 06:43.44 | Epyon | JeffM, it is? :P |
| 06:43.46 | JeffM | we will take the easier person any day |
| 06:44.54 | Epyon | JeffM, after last years you doubt that I wouldn't deliver what I promised? |
| 06:45.19 | JeffM | I never doubted you would deliver what you said you would |
| 06:45.27 | JeffM | I doubted thatit would be usefull |
| 06:45.31 | DTRemenak | you didn't actually finish your initial objectives iirc |
| 06:45.34 | JeffM | and that it would be well suported |
| 06:45.37 | JeffM | and it isn't |
| 06:45.54 | Epyon | JeffM, then that is a problem in the app itself not the person behind it |
| 06:46.15 | Epyon | DTRemenak, shh, don't destroy my point xP |
| 06:46.21 | *** join/#bzflag Whirligig (n=ca4fdc1d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-4d2f9b0537c28cf3) |
| 06:46.22 | JeffM | heh |
| 06:46.27 | DTRemenak | just stating the truth man :) |
| 06:46.41 | Epyon | DTRemenak, the truth hurts -_- |
| 06:47.04 | JeffM | noone said life was fair |
| 06:47.25 | Epyon | DTRemenak, I overestimated my possibilites, but you know I admited it as soon as I noticed it |
| 06:47.30 | DTRemenak | Epyon: when you create the truth, you have the opportunity to decide whether to create one that will come back and hurt you later, or not :) |
| 06:48.09 | Epyon | DTRemenak, I'd exact my revenge upon that truth sooner if I'd have tome :P |
| 06:48.11 | brlcad | last year (and to a lesser extent this year) it was mostly outright assumed that applicants would deliver what they promised regardless |
| 06:48.12 | Epyon | time* |
| 06:48.19 | DTRemenak | I don't think your original plan was unreasonable. I still think it could be done. |
| 06:48.48 | DTRemenak | you may have underestimated the amount of time it would take, and you certainly overestimated the amount of time you would have available. |
| 06:49.12 | Epyon | DTRemenak, *sigh* okay okay... maybe. If you'd ask me, I'd felt as if I failed. And I don't like that feeling. |
| 06:50.25 | Epyon | Yet I wont agree that the idea itself was bad. |
| 06:50.39 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A55758.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:50.45 | DTRemenak | heh, pulling out the strawman? :P |
| 06:50.46 | Epyon | It just needs more care and ... mass media I guess xP |
| 06:50.53 | Epyon | DTRemenak :P |
| 06:50.56 | JeffM | I don't think anyone ever said it was a bad idea |
| 06:51.09 | brlcad | it wouldn't have been approved otherwise |
| 06:51.17 | JeffM | if we thought it was a bad idea we'd not have given it a slot |
| 06:51.21 | Epyon | JeffM, if they'd say that it wouldn't have passed xP |
| 06:51.29 | brlcad | it's a great idea imho, and good research .. and the potential to attract someone new for the long term |
| 06:51.38 | Epyon | lol, everyone agrees at least on something xP |
| 06:51.48 | brlcad | remember that the primary *point* of gsoc isn't to do projects but to attract new long-term developers |
| 06:51.58 | Epyon | brlcad, it made a great master thesis regardless :P |
| 06:52.02 | brlcad | the projects are just a means to the end |
| 06:52.24 | JeffM | one project could possibly be "fix bugs and do what they tell me to do" |
| 06:52.31 | Epyon | brlcad, and this is the point where I feel I most failed. |
| 06:52.51 | brlcad | well you still have commit access :) |
| 06:52.55 | Epyon | brlcad, I truly wanted to work on it further... but time :( |
| 06:53.14 | DTRemenak | s/wanted/want/ ? :) |
| 06:53.15 | Epyon | brlcad, don't count I wont make use of it anymore xP |
| 06:53.23 | JeffM | Epyon, by developer, it is meant for the entire project, not just the part you did in SoC |
| 06:53.28 | Epyon | DTRemenak, want :P |
| 06:54.01 | DTRemenak | and you're welcome to work on it, or on whatever else, anytime you want. whether or not you do so is your choice. |
| 06:54.06 | brlcad | it's all about making time, ranking it high enough in your own mind priority-wise, investing time and effort |
| 06:54.52 | DTRemenak | I don't have a terrific lot of time anymore either. but I still manage to commit a few times a month. just takes a couple hours on a weekend or during some slack time at work. |
| 06:55.09 | Epyon | JeffM, that's what I'm talking about. I really fealt like "part of the team" during SoC, and I really wanted the feeling to go on... but somehow I failed. I can say that it was my first year as PhD student, and that it was my first two courses ran at the uni, but still I feel that I failed at that. |
| 06:56.00 | JeffM | Epyon, I think if you opened yourself up to the posibility of working on other parts of the code it would help that |
| 06:56.17 | JeffM | then you would be part of the team, not just that guy that wrote that one thing |
| 06:56.30 | Epyon | And that makes me feel somehow uneasy when applying for the second time :/ |
| 06:56.36 | JeffM | it was a team effort when you wrote that thing, because SoC made us work with you. |
| 06:57.43 | DTRemenak | (and as food for thought, sometimes it can be worth ignoring irc for a bit to work on some code) |
| 06:57.47 | Epyon | JeffM, that's maybe why I'm so inclined for another non-bzwg proposal this year :P |
| 06:58.12 | JeffM | why wait fro SoC? |
| 06:58.42 | brlcad | another stand-alone project wouldn't likely do well since this year there's more focus on integration projects |
| 06:58.49 | JeffM | indeed |
| 06:59.01 | JeffM | no standalones this year I say |
| 06:59.05 | Epyon | Just because my say now is filled with giving grades for those damn GameProgramming projects -_- |
| 06:59.06 | JeffM | all for one one for all |
| 06:59.13 | Epyon | day* |
| 06:59.16 | brlcad | i mean hell, we almost unanimously agreed that cheat preventions are a high-priority area of development |
| 06:59.20 | L4m3r | 5~6 integration projects sounds like a lot |
| 06:59.25 | brlcad | and that has nothing to do with new code development |
| 06:59.27 | JeffM | L4m3r, it will be |
| 06:59.32 | JeffM | we have more mentors that should stick tho |
| 06:59.37 | Epyon | Still I have no clue how a net-based game works :( |
| 06:59.46 | DTRemenak | what better time to learn? :) |
| 06:59.54 | L4m3r | the net is the easiest part! |
| 06:59.56 | L4m3r | :P |
| 07:00.09 | L4m3r | (it's the only thing I kinda sorta get) |
| 07:00.18 | JeffM | messages are packed and sent |
| 07:00.24 | JeffM | bam.. networking done ;) |
| 07:00.35 | L4m3r | speaking of which, I should get coding |
| 07:00.36 | jude- | brlcad: is there realistically a solution to the problem? |
| 07:00.41 | JeffM | it's what you do wiht those message, and what is in them |
| 07:00.45 | brlcad | there are lots of things that can be done |
| 07:00.57 | *** join/#bzflag Gilly (n=btw@83.146.211.140) |
| 07:00.57 | brlcad | some of the cheats are basic abuse, others require moving logic from client to server |
| 07:00.59 | DTRemenak | jude-: server-side control of player and world state does a LOT |
| 07:01.15 | JeffM | cus I find it hard to belive that you can come up wiht the logic to build a paramtric CITY, and not be able to work out some simple networking and math code..... |
| 07:01.16 | DTRemenak | right now the clients are authoritative on most state |
| 07:01.17 | jude- | interesting |
| 07:01.18 | brlcad | others could be mitigated by advanced server-side pattern detection |
| 07:01.27 | L4m3r | even just making the server more intelligent will improve its ability to detect cheats, if not prevent them completely |
| 07:01.36 | JeffM | yeah we know many of the problems |
| 07:01.41 | JeffM | and probable solutions |
| 07:01.50 | Epyon | brlcad, btw, what would you say for a L-System submission for brl-cad -- GUI and examples included? xP |
| 07:01.59 | JeffM | it's not like network gaming is an unknown poblem that has never been solved before ;) |
| 07:02.29 | brlcad | I'd also bundle the whole mouse accelleration problem to a simple timing/book-keeping and input throttle problem in the client that could be easily taken care of with someone focusing on it for a week or two |
| 07:02.43 | JeffM | indeed |
| 07:02.54 | L4m3r | couldn't that be more or less handled by better lag interpolation? |
| 07:03.08 | JeffM | L4m3r, need input validation too |
| 07:03.28 | JeffM | the timing and book-keeping has been somewhat improved |
| 07:04.37 | JeffM | the fact that we don't use input limits on all tanks makes for some discrepeancies between players |
| 07:04.52 | JeffM | I mean techincaly, keyboard input is the best ME out there |
| 07:05.02 | JeffM | total direction change in one frame ;) |
| 07:06.25 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 07:06.38 | L4m3r | and the acceleration limits annoy the living hell out of us keyboard users |
| 07:07.05 | Constitution | JeffM: would the "no standalone projects" rule apply to a new auth system as well? |
| 07:07.27 | Epyon | It definitively seems it's high time for me to go to sleep -- I'm too frank, too sober and too drunk to do anything -_- |
| 07:07.33 | Epyon | G'night all |
| 07:07.43 | Constitution | night Epyon |
| 07:07.44 | DTRemenak | 'night Epyon |
| 07:07.44 | JeffM | Constitution, you would be expeced to work on it with otthers |
| 07:07.48 | JeffM | gnight Epyon |
| 07:07.55 | DTRemenak | Constitution: auth is ANYTHING but standalone |
| 07:07.57 | blast007 | Constitution: that wouldn't be stand-alone, for one thing ;) |
| 07:08.03 | DTRemenak | it has to tie into like a bazillion services |
| 07:08.06 | JeffM | it touches so many things |
| 07:08.07 | Constitution | haha, okay, gues not :) |
| 07:08.16 | Epyon | Constitution was not asleep D: |
| 07:09.08 | JeffM | L4m3r, I belive that anoyance could be helped with a better interface, as we have no feedback now |
| 07:09.34 | L4m3r | most servers have pleasantly sane limits |
| 07:10.06 | L4m3r | the only flub is when you try to change direction in a jump, say, jumping back immediately after landing in a forward jump |
| 07:10.25 | L4m3r | typically you end up jumping straight up or slightly forward... frag bait :) |
| 07:11.29 | L4m3r | jumping is a problem in itself too... the inertia acts with respect to the tank, not the world. if you make a turning jump, you'll still have dead-ahead momentum when you land, even though you were moving sideways. |
| 07:12.01 | brlcad | hm, i disagree -- keyboard isn't the best for ME -- it does give instantaneous accel change, but the framerate delta is fundamentally limited in keypress repeat rates and user ability to iterate two keys |
| 07:12.22 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r16739 10/trunk/bzworkbench/Debug/: Temporarily removing Debug/, since it will soon be replaced with a different heirarchy. |
| 07:12.39 | brlcad | plus keyboard input *does* already have accelleration dampening (at least it did) so you can't over-accellerate even with super-accelerated repeates |
| 07:13.06 | brlcad | you'd have to programmatically inject inputs, which can be done keyboard or mouse then |
| 07:13.37 | L4m3r | another fun one is double-binding |
| 07:13.55 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r16740 10/trunk/bzworkbench/Debug/ (32 files in 16 dirs): New Debug heirarchy (new makefiles) |
| 07:14.03 | L4m3r | some of the wings freaks use both jump keys and/or a high repeat rate to climb more quickly than opponents |
| 07:14.10 | JeffM | brlcad, my point is that none of the input systems are constisnten in dampning and feedbkac ;) |
| 07:14.25 | JeffM | sleeps |
| 07:15.06 | blast007 | L4m3r: maybe we need a FPS limiter then... Flaps Per Second ;) |
| 07:16.17 | L4m3r | actually I think we need a BZDB var to limit flap frequency, but not in the sense of input |
| 07:16.29 | L4m3r | just to balance out wings in general |
| 07:16.40 | blast007 | I have the 'q' key and the left mouse button mapped to fire, so I can fire two bullets in quick succession |
| 07:16.47 | blast007 | never liked using the wheel for that |
| 07:17.06 | blast007 | well, one, because I don't have a wheel on my laptop ;) |
| 07:20.48 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r16741 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (21 files in 4 dirs): Fixed a bunch of printf-related warnings; repared BZWParser::cutWhiteSpace so it doesn't segfault for 0-length strings |
| 07:22.26 | jude- | yay! build environment reverted. Now to sleep |
| 07:22.32 | jude- | good night all |
| 07:57.34 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-061-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 07:57.46 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-061-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 08:38.33 | *** join/#bzflag bz45 (n=7c108bc4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 08:42.36 | *** join/#bzflag yuziyu (n=7c108bc4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 08:57.47 | yuziyu | hello |
| 08:59.40 | *** join/#bzflag yuziyu (n=7c108bc4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:04.35 | *** join/#bzflag utrrrongeeb (n=mhciipec@ties-pool1-22.isn.net) |
| 09:05.50 | spyfeng | anybody here want to apply 2008GSoC? |
| 09:07.53 | *** join/#bzflag yuziyu (n=7c108bc4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:16.17 | *** join/#bzflag ahuillet (n=ahuillet@d80-170-52-99.cust.tele2.fr) |
| 09:45.14 | donny_baker | spyfeng: I am sure we will have some applicants and some are here, yes |
| 10:00.11 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 10:24.56 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-163-117.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 10:33.53 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@cpc2-stme1-0-0-cust307.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:04.05 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 11:14.45 | Winny | bah |
| 11:14.49 | Winny | missed jude again |
| 11:34.07 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-061-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 11:44.59 | *** join/#bzflag Alesis-Novik (n=Miranda@78-60-80-229.ip.zebra.lt) |
| 11:45.07 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Ups@i577B6D9C.versanet.de) |
| 11:45.09 | Alesis-Novik | 'ello |
| 11:52.23 | Alesis-Novik | i'm interested in the development of the game. I was looking through the ideas, and I am interested, because they need algorithm programming. |
| 11:53.18 | donny_baker | welcome Alesis-Novik |
| 11:53.51 | donny_baker | you are in luck... we are looking for programmers ;) |
| 11:54.20 | Alesis-Novik | i think i missed it, but what is the primary language? |
| 11:54.29 | donny_baker | C++ |
| 11:54.40 | Alesis-Novik | then i'm even more in luck ;) |
| 11:54.53 | donny_baker | you looking because of GSoC? |
| 11:56.21 | Alesis-Novik | well it is a push, yes, but I am looking for programming algorithms, and i'm interested in AI |
| 11:57.07 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-061-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 11:57.10 | Alesis-Novik | in other words, to give some intelligence to machines :) |
| 11:58.24 | Alesis-Novik | how much of that is needed in BZFlag? |
| 12:00.02 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@p3EE06845.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:02.09 | donny_baker | well, we have bots available already (for the next version)... thanks to GSoC last year |
| 12:02.24 | donny_baker | it is an integration of Robocode into BZFlag |
| 12:02.47 | donny_baker | but I seem to remember there are a few needs on that still |
| 12:03.00 | donny_baker | such as cross-platform compatability |
| 12:03.06 | *** join/#bzflag prae (n=praetori@124-168-164-125.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 12:04.00 | Alesis-Novik | well, i looked at the idea list, and bots weren't the only thing that needed algorithms :) |
| 12:04.07 | donny_baker | Alesis-Novik: you might look at this to see what has been done already |
| 12:04.27 | donny_baker | sure... there is the dead reconing |
| 12:05.04 | donny_baker | and you don't need to limit yourself to the list either |
| 12:05.46 | Alesis-Novik | its only to begin with, right? :) |
| 12:05.55 | donny_baker | yes |
| 12:06.10 | ahuillet | btw (hello !) - have you published a "Google Summer of Code aftermath" document that synthesized the success of the various projects and what it would bring to bzflag? |
| 12:06.24 | ahuillet | I, err, care about what happens to bzflag since I love the game |
| 12:06.41 | ahuillet | and such a document would be great to have when you're merely a bzflag user |
| 12:06.46 | donny_baker | ahuillet: you can find what you are looking for here http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2007 |
| 12:06.57 | ahuillet | thank you :) |
| 12:07.27 | donny_baker | there is a link to the post mortem document there |
| 12:08.08 | Alesis-Novik | donny_baker : so what qualification should i have :) |
| 12:08.12 | donny_baker | ahuillet: if you are applying for GSoC, I would suggest making sure that your application is well thought out |
| 12:08.24 | ahuillet | donny_baker : I was planning on applying, but I dropped the idea |
| 12:08.36 | ahuillet | very interesting project ideas that you have |
| 12:08.38 | donny_baker | :P |
| 12:09.09 | donny_baker | Alesis-Novik: same thing that I said to ahuillet :) |
| 12:09.21 | ahuillet | I understand you got lots more applications than slots |
| 12:09.52 | donny_baker | yes, we only get a few spots and the competition for them is pretty strong |
| 12:10.01 | Alesis-Novik | darn ;) |
| 12:10.10 | donny_baker | having a well thought out and complete application helps |
| 12:10.12 | ahuillet | bad for students, good for mentors :) |
| 12:10.44 | donny_baker | as does discussing you ideas here before hand |
| 12:11.11 | donny_baker | you can get valuable feed back and feel out the direction(s) you should consider |
| 12:11.22 | donny_baker | before you submit |
| 12:12.45 | Alesis-Novik | hey, while looking at the ideas, what does the "Better positioning of tanks" mean? |
| 12:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0FABC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:17.49 | donny_baker | Alesis-Novik: what section you looking at? |
| 12:18.11 | Alesis-Novik | Technical |
| 12:19.03 | donny_baker | Alesis-Novik: ok, what page are you looking at... it's not the same page i', looking at :P |
| 12:20.00 | Alesis-Novik | what page are you looking at? :) |
| 12:20.11 | donny_baker | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008 |
| 12:20.31 | Alesis-Novik | oh :D |
| 12:20.50 | Alesis-Novik | maybe i was looking at the old one :) (cant remember how i got there ;)) |
| 12:22.15 | donny_baker | You were on the "Ideas" page, which is also another good place to look |
| 12:23.16 | donny_baker | There are things on the ideas page that just end users have suggested |
| 12:23.50 | Alesis-Novik | is the tank collision done? |
| 12:23.54 | donny_baker | I am not exactly sure what was meant by "Better positioning of tanks) |
| 12:24.22 | donny_baker | no, tanks don't collide at this point.. they drive through each other |
| 12:25.10 | Alesis-Novik | that would be an interesting thing to do ;) |
| 12:25.43 | Alesis-Novik | would it be done on the client side? |
| 12:25.57 | donny_baker | that is a very good question |
| 12:26.14 | donny_baker | i would say no, but I am not the best person to discuss that |
| 12:26.43 | donny_baker | i think doing it client side would be problematic from a cheating stand point |
| 12:26.59 | Alesis-Novik | i was thinking the same thing |
| 12:27.36 | donny_baker | it could possibly be done on client side as long as the server checked it, but then you are coding in two places for the same thing |
| 12:27.38 | Alesis-Novik | it wouldn't burden the server, but it would give way for improper use |
| 12:27.59 | donny_baker | Alesis-Novik: our servers could work much harder |
| 12:28.18 | donny_baker | currently the server takes only a few % of processing time |
| 12:28.26 | donny_baker | usually 1-2% |
| 12:28.47 | donny_baker | our real issue (as with most network games) is bandwidth |
| 12:29.19 | donny_baker | the server just idles most of the time, so making it work wouldn't usually be an issue |
| 12:30.10 | Alesis-Novik | bbiab |
| 12:37.01 | *** join/#bzflag toft (n=jlewis@unaffiliated/crassworm) |
| 12:46.31 | Alesis-Novik | back |
| 12:47.28 | Alesis-Novik | can you tell me how the server-client works, or give me i link where i can look at it? |
| 12:51.22 | ruskie | the source code? |
| 12:51.57 | Alesis-Novik | i think that would work :) |
| 12:54.00 | Alesis-Novik | nevermind, i think i got it :) |
| 13:00.25 | donny_baker | Alesis-Novik: I would also suggest that you look at http://tanks4code.blogspot.com/2008/03/application-guidelines.html |
| 13:00.49 | *** part/#bzflag ahuillet (n=ahuillet@d80-170-52-99.cust.tele2.fr) |
| 13:00.56 | donny_baker | learner (a Project Admin) gives some tips for applying |
| 13:01.47 | Alesis-Novik | i saw those :) |
| 13:01.49 | donny_baker | Alesis-Novik: skip that link... it just point to this on (which you should read) http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/Application_Guidelines |
| 13:01.53 | donny_baker | :) |
| 13:13.29 | Alesis-Novik | i didnt try the game, but as i understand, there are objects you cant drive through. what handles that? |
| 14:06.07 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@adsl-70-240-215-57.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 14:09.27 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 14:09.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 14:33.07 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 14:33.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 14:36.51 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 14:37.08 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-061-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 14:37.17 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-061-121.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 14:38.57 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@70.1.67.186) |
| 14:38.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 14:52.34 | *** join/#bzflag bz57 (n=29d00ba0@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:55.12 | bz57 | can you play bzflag without the internet - LAN? |
| 14:55.27 | blast007 | bz57: you can run a server locally |
| 14:55.46 | blast007 | one way to do that is the "Start Server" menu in the Join Game menu |
| 14:55.50 | bz57 | i have trouble doing that, how do you connect with 2 computers? |
| 14:55.54 | blast007 | though it doesn't always work so well |
| 14:56.26 | bz57 | if i say find server, it picks up nothing |
| 14:56.47 | blast007 | you might have the enter the IP addess manually of the computer that started the server |
| 14:57.38 | bz57 | have you done that using a local wifi network with mac? |
| 14:58.31 | blast007 | shouldn't be any different than any other OS |
| 14:58.51 | bz57 | i'm just wondering if we're connecting the right way? |
| 14:59.21 | bz57 | we are connnected and sharing files and so forth, but don't seem to connect in bzflag |
| 15:00.08 | blast007 | could be a firewall |
| 15:00.35 | blast007 | when you try connecting, are you typing in the IP address of the machine running the server, and using port 5154? |
| 15:00.52 | blast007 | and on the machine running the server, you can use this IP address: 127.0.0.1 |
| 15:00.54 | bz57 | used to just make up a name |
| 15:00.56 | blast007 | that points to itself |
| 15:01.08 | blast007 | "make up a name" ? |
| 15:01.31 | bz57 | well, i'll try that ip |
| 15:01.38 | bz57 | speak to you again if it doesn't work |
| 15:01.53 | spldart | Do you know the local ip address's of both machines? |
| 15:03.07 | *** join/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@host-091-097-062-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:17.12 | spldart | .... tripped on the ac adapter for the wifi router? |
| 15:20.03 | brlcad | hello Alesis-Novik |
| 15:20.10 | brlcad | yay AI :) |
| 15:20.20 | brlcad | misses learner |
| 15:20.59 | Alesis-Novik | hello |
| 15:22.11 | Alesis-Novik | are you a dev of BZFlag? |
| 15:23.43 | [dmp] | he is :) |
| 15:24.25 | [dmp] | sometimes he tries to hide behind an alter-ego, but he stil is a bzflag dev :) |
| 15:24.40 | Alesis-Novik | :D |
| 15:25.00 | Alesis-Novik | we all have our alter-egos ;) |
| 15:25.12 | Alesis-Novik | thats the fun part of IRC :) |
| 15:25.16 | [dmp] | :) |
| 15:26.09 | [dmp] | A guy from my new job, asked for my full name - in order to google it. I hope it dosnt influenze how my desk will look like when i start there |
| 15:26.24 | brlcad | heh |
| 15:26.39 | brlcad | that dennis! he's one *crrraaazy* guy |
| 15:27.10 | [dmp] | You don't know me very well, it seems |
| 15:27.11 | brlcad | Alesis-Novik: yes, with a particular interest in AI topics ;) |
| 15:28.01 | Alesis-Novik | brlcad : cool :) |
| 15:28.21 | Alesis-Novik | i was wondering if that would be of use here ;) |
| 15:28.25 | [dmp] | brlcad: How much time would you guys be expecting from people working on gsoc projects? |
| 15:28.42 | Gilly | Alesis-Novik: Hey there :) There are still a bit of important things missing in the current bzrobots api before you can actually start doing great AI, but they shouldn't be that hard to add. |
| 15:29.05 | [dmp] | is trying to "Be realistic" :-) |
| 15:29.56 | brlcad | Alesis-Novik: most certainly, there's a lot of places where work is needed in our AI -- some is a continuation of the framework already in place, some potential for formulating new/better AI behaviors for the tanks |
| 15:30.27 | Alesis-Novik | that would be an interesting project for me :) |
| 15:30.38 | brlcad | [dmp]: I'd be expecting that they contribute akin to a full-time job, roughly 40 hours a week minus a couple breaks |
| 15:32.04 | brlcad | Alesis-Novik: there's a really nice framework that was worked on last year by daxxar (and guys at BYU before him) and later even more recently by Gilly based on the robocode API |
| 15:32.04 | Alesis-Novik | i didn't find many projects that would need algorithmic or AI development |
| 15:32.27 | brlcad | basically provides a full procedural API for controlling the tanks and discovering their environment |
| 15:32.41 | [dmp] | I guess taking google out of summer-of-code is more realistic for me (I got a full time job) |
| 15:32.52 | [dmp] | i hope to |
| 15:32.53 | brlcad | there's several hooks that still need to be implemented, some that undoubtedly need tweaked, in the framework but the approach is pretty flexible |
| 15:33.15 | brlcad | [dmp]: hmmmm |
| 15:34.13 | Alesis-Novik | brlcad : where could i read about it? |
| 15:34.52 | Gilly | Alesis-Novik: there's not that much documentation about it, i'm afraid, i'd suggest just grab the code from svn and look at some example robots |
| 15:35.24 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN |
| 15:35.31 | blast007 | it's part of trunk |
| 15:36.47 | Alesis-Novik | i'll go check it out :) |
| 15:37.44 | Alesis-Novik | http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/ this one? |
| 15:38.21 | brlcad | Alesis-Novik: there is info on the wiki, as well as in our postmortem |
| 15:38.31 | brlcad | and codewise, yes, it's all in src/bzrobots |
| 15:38.54 | *** join/#bzflag RoverBlaster (n=97c7c1b6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-bd63ae9606822a8e) |
| 15:39.01 | blast007 | hello RoverBlaster |
| 15:39.01 | RoverBlaster | hello |
| 15:39.11 | RoverBlaster | this is my first time on this |
| 15:39.27 | brlcad | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZRobots |
| 15:40.00 | brlcad | (that's for you Alesis-Novik) |
| 15:40.01 | RoverBlaster | brclad...do you play bzflag? |
| 15:40.01 | Alesis-Novik | brlcad : thanks :) |
| 15:40.01 | RoverBlaster | brclad...do you play bzflag? |
| 15:40.16 | brlcad | there's also a high-level overview in http://my.bzflag.org/gsoc/bzflag_gsoc2007_post_mortem.pdf |
| 15:40.37 | brlcad | RoverBlaster: I'm not brclad, but yes I do play from time to time |
| 15:40.51 | RoverBlaster | who are u? |
| 15:40.58 | RoverBlaster | whats your callsign? |
| 15:41.06 | blast007 | RoverBlaster: you have to spell it right |
| 15:41.08 | brlcad | bzrobots is on page 6 |
| 15:41.25 | RoverBlaster | brlcad*** |
| 15:41.46 | spldart | RoverBlaster: slow down |
| 15:42.11 | blast007 | RoverBlaster: this is the development and support channel for BZFlag. Is there something we can help you with? |
| 15:42.17 | brlcad | RoverBlaster: not saying, gotta run to lunch -- if you hang around long enough, you'll find out ;) |
| 15:42.56 | brlcad | heads to lunch |
| 15:43.17 | Alesis-Novik | would working on the bzrobot and AI be a valid GSoC project? |
| 15:43.25 | brlcad | certainly |
| 15:43.43 | brlcad | continuation of last years projects is highly desirable, but you'll need to be detailed in what you intend to do as a follow-on |
| 15:44.30 | Alesis-Novik | i'll check it out and think about it :) |
| 15:45.22 | brlcad | and please hang around more |
| 15:45.28 | brlcad | love to talk about what's doable |
| 15:45.35 | brlcad | but gotta run atm |
| 15:45.36 | Alesis-Novik | sure ;) |
| 15:45.42 | Alesis-Novik | see ya |
| 15:48.02 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 15:48.29 | [dmp] | brlcad: Would you guys be interest having a gsoc project, without the 'g'? No money involved, but still mentoring, deadlines, feedback, etc. |
| 15:49.02 | donny_baker | [dmp]: isn't that just being a dev :P |
| 15:49.33 | JeffM | we will always help you if you want |
| 15:49.40 | [dmp] | donny_baker: I hope for a little more formalism :) |
| 15:49.53 | JeffM | what project do you want to do? |
| 15:50.38 | [dmp] | I've been looking at bzauthd, but since many others do, I'm thinking about having a go at implementing a karma system |
| 15:51.06 | *** part/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@host-091-097-062-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 15:51.22 | JeffM | go for it, I'm sure you can find people to act like mentors for you, I know I would, and I'm sure blast and dtr would as well |
| 15:51.41 | JeffM | and if you want deadlines simply use the SoC framework and shift it however you want |
| 15:52.37 | blast007 | "Your karma must be this high to play on this server" ;) |
| 15:52.47 | [dmp] | :) |
| 15:52.52 | JeffM | that is the actual goal |
| 15:54.36 | [dmp] | will consider it - write down notes etc and see what you guys say |
| 15:54.46 | JeffM | sounds good |
| 15:54.55 | JeffM | you can use the bzflag wiki to do the design docs |
| 15:55.02 | JeffM | we have a template for that |
| 15:56.46 | [dmp] | I Can't find it. I only found a "do" and "donts" list |
| 15:57.20 | JeffM | look under the development category |
| 15:57.33 | JeffM | we have a couple articles that are flaged as design docs allready |
| 15:57.38 | JeffM | shot stuff, group manager, etc.. |
| 15:58.58 | JeffM | hey Winny can you make a wiki header that dosn't have the flakey edges? |
| 15:59.14 | JeffM | ether a smooth fade to white, or a clean edge |
| 15:59.34 | JeffM | does not like the one that donny_baker uploaded |
| 16:01.11 | donny_baker | ;) |
| 16:01.32 | JeffM | I don't like the font ether |
| 16:01.38 | JeffM | I'd just use the same one that is in the icon |
| 16:01.51 | Saturos | what are you talking about? |
| 16:01.54 | JeffM | and take out that stupid tank icon overlay |
| 16:01.59 | Saturos | ah, I see |
| 16:01.59 | JeffM | Saturos, http://my.bzflag.org/w/Image:BZFlag_2010_shiny.png |
| 16:02.19 | JeffM | all the tank icon overlay looks like is a blob |
| 16:02.27 | Saturos | who made that one? |
| 16:02.30 | JeffM | Winny, |
| 16:03.18 | JeffM | I mean I do like the image |
| 16:03.26 | JeffM | it's a good header image and I think we should use it everywhere |
| 16:03.31 | JeffM | for consitency |
| 16:03.39 | JeffM | but we should use it consistently ;) |
| 16:03.52 | Saturos | I dont like the perspective |
| 16:04.01 | Saturos | the tanks along with the teleporter look very odd |
| 16:04.09 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 16:04.14 | JeffM | I don't mind it, makes it look slightly sureal |
| 16:04.27 | JeffM | but hey, of you want to do a new one with the new tank.. hint hint ;) |
| 16:04.46 | Saturos | it looks like there are multiple vanishing points, which isnt possible, but still it looks like that |
| 16:04.50 | JeffM | I just haven't been to the wiki in 10 days, and I noticed this today |
| 16:05.14 | JeffM | it's all just too "blob" |
| 16:06.21 | Saturos | I'll leave that up to winny.. he made the original image, so it's his domain. I don't want to offend him. |
| 16:06.23 | JeffM | [dmp], there is actualy a karma page, http://my.bzflag.org/w/Karma_System |
| 16:06.31 | JeffM | so you can extend or change that |
| 16:06.49 | Saturos | any news on the shirt that I dont know yet? :) |
| 16:07.10 | JeffM | Saturos, we are an open source project, all for one, one for all. do not worry about offending. If the art was given to us. it is open to mods |
| 16:07.24 | JeffM | I think that's the core problem with our art process, we worry about offending artists |
| 16:07.49 | JeffM | when we have to treat it like code, if someone else has somethig that works beter for the case, great. |
| 16:07.59 | JeffM | we build on the backs of those that come before us |
| 16:08.06 | JeffM | Saturos, they are ordered |
| 16:08.10 | Saturos | wee |
| 16:08.21 | JeffM | I'll get an art proof today or tomorow |
| 16:08.34 | Saturos | that means? photos or a finished shirt? |
| 16:09.07 | JeffM | they have an electronic print simulation system |
| 16:09.20 | JeffM | it will show me what it should look like |
| 16:09.26 | Saturos | ah, ok |
| 16:10.01 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumT1m (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:11.03 | JeffM | I don't think Winny woudl be ofended, he set up that art svn just so people could work together on art, I belive he fully understands. |
| 16:11.29 | JeffM | I realy think we should work tward a very consistent art look to both the game and the services |
| 16:11.38 | JeffM | it makes us look a lot more professional |
| 16:12.10 | Saturos | indeed |
| 16:12.15 | Saturos | we should agree on a font ;) |
| 16:12.23 | JeffM | indeed |
| 16:12.29 | JeffM | I'd like to have at least 2 fonts |
| 16:12.35 | Saturos | thats what bothers me since Lithos is gone |
| 16:12.38 | JeffM | one for the title and one for other uses of the name |
| 16:12.52 | JeffM | do you want to build up a set of samples and let us pick? |
| 16:13.05 | Saturos | ok, sure |
| 16:13.07 | JeffM | it would need to be a font that anyone can get |
| 16:13.10 | Saturos | I'll check what I got |
| 16:13.17 | JeffM | then we can make an art standards page on the wiki |
| 16:13.24 | JeffM | that links to the fonts, etc.. |
| 16:13.36 | JeffM | and we can have our rules, like it's always BZFlag |
| 16:13.38 | JeffM | not BZFLAG |
| 16:13.40 | Saturos | hmm... alright. that forbids insignia then |
| 16:13.47 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:13.49 | JeffM | yeah sadly |
| 16:14.37 | Saturos | is there an official subtitle? |
| 16:14.46 | Saturos | free multiplayer multiplatform 3d tank battle game |
| 16:15.09 | Saturos | thats what I have in my ear.. but I dont know where it comes from |
| 16:16.22 | JeffM | Saturos, that is for you to help us choose |
| 16:16.48 | Saturos | umm |
| 16:16.50 | JeffM | so far, you , Winny , and SpazzyMcGee have shown to be the players some level of art skils |
| 16:17.01 | Saturos | dont forget zaa lol |
| 16:17.04 | blast007 | "The only tank game you'll ever need!" "Now with karma!" |
| 16:17.05 | JeffM | so if you guys come up with a list of fonts that you like, show them to us |
| 16:17.19 | Saturos | k, I'll do a list |
| 16:17.22 | JeffM | oh subtile |
| 16:17.25 | JeffM | bah nevermind |
| 16:17.29 | JeffM | I read "substitue" |
| 16:17.32 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-75-36-46-10.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:17.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 16:17.37 | JeffM | and I thought you were asking about the font |
| 16:17.42 | JeffM | we have used 2 taglines |
| 16:17.47 | JeffM | the free multiplayer one |
| 16:17.52 | JeffM | and "good clean fun.. sorta" |
| 16:18.18 | JeffM | the only tank game, is a bit arrogant |
| 16:18.29 | Saturos | k... it doesnt need to be the same font as BZFlag though |
| 16:18.34 | blast007 | JeffM: completely joking on that one :P |
| 16:18.35 | JeffM | no it does not |
| 16:18.43 | JeffM | blast007, I know but it dosn't have a bad ring to it ;) |
| 16:19.07 | JeffM | Saturos, I'd like to have logo fonts for both the game name and the subtitle/versions |
| 16:19.14 | Saturos | yep |
| 16:19.21 | spldart | BZFlag. By the people, to destroy the people :-p |
| 16:19.29 | JeffM | as well as fonts to use for the title and subtext on both non title images, and web pages |
| 16:19.33 | spldart | or frag |
| 16:19.45 | JeffM | I would not empahsise the killing |
| 16:20.02 | JeffM | empahsiing multiplayer and internet would be good |
| 16:20.14 | JeffM | "meet new people, blow them up" may be more along the lines |
| 16:20.23 | Saturos | lol |
| 16:20.31 | JeffM | also if it's too long, people will ignore it |
| 16:21.08 | JeffM | for font testing, you can use the free multiplayer line |
| 16:21.46 | blast007 | "Even the pope plays BZFlag!" |
| 16:21.51 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 16:21.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 16:21.52 | JeffM | ouch |
| 16:21.53 | spldart | BZFlag Global Collaboration, Cooperation, Comradery |
| 16:22.18 | spldart | nah.. to mushy |
| 16:22.19 | JeffM | spldart, cept that dosn't describe the majority of our community |
| 16:22.28 | spldart | lol |
| 16:22.29 | JeffM | bzflag, yeah.. we got assholes too |
| 16:22.42 | blast007 | :) |
| 16:23.01 | JeffM | free, multipler, open source, and fun are key things we would want in that slogan |
| 16:23.04 | [dmp] | JeffM: Yeah, I was reading that yesterday - and figured it could be a nice project to working on. |
| 16:23.14 | JeffM | but I'd not get boged down on a new slogan just to get some art standards done |
| 16:23.32 | JeffM | [dmp], sure. feel free to edit up or expand that page |
| 16:23.39 | JeffM | use that as your proposal/spec |
| 16:24.05 | [dmp] | I will :) |
| 16:24.09 | JeffM | cool |
| 16:25.09 | JeffM | regarding the art, I know Winny's trying hard, but he tends to want every site to be difrent to show off various art styles. And that's good for a single artist to show his work, but we need consitency in our services, so that users can feel comfortable |
| 16:26.11 | blast007 | JeffM: his current design is probably flexible enough to use for the main site, the forum, wiki, etc |
| 16:26.19 | JeffM | blast007, yes it is |
| 16:26.24 | JeffM | that is why I like it |
| 16:26.33 | JeffM | yet he keeps changing it everywhere ;) |
| 16:26.49 | Saturos | I'll be gone for an hour or two.. cu later. |
| 16:27.02 | JeffM | I mean it droped into the blogspot page just fine. It looks like it oculd go on the wiki easy. it's good |
| 16:27.04 | JeffM | Saturos, have fun |
| 16:27.05 | Saturos | I'll compose a font list 'til the weekend |
| 16:27.09 | JeffM | ok |
| 16:28.01 | JeffM | blast007, adapatablity of a design for multiple uses shows that it has strength. thats one reason I like satu's shirt design, it works in a number of colors and layouts |
| 16:28.09 | *** join/#bzflag andrecastelo (n=pulse@189.71.22.122) |
| 16:28.31 | JeffM | but that icon blob Winny keeps puting over the image has to go |
| 16:28.34 | JeffM | you can't see what it is |
| 16:28.44 | JeffM | and it just looks like a rendering shadow gone wrong |
| 16:29.44 | Daveman | hehe |
| 16:32.39 | JeffM | I think what we need for him is just an art gallery to play in |
| 16:32.48 | JeffM | then he can have a place to show off new stuff |
| 16:37.42 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 16:37.58 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 16:51.47 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 16:53.47 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.106.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 16:53.57 | Epyon | What a terrible hangover -_- |
| 16:54.24 | L4m3r | I'd rather have a hangover than take finals :( |
| 16:54.39 | spldart | Or taking finals with a hangover |
| 16:55.24 | Alesis-Novik | spldart : meh, i've seen it happen :D |
| 16:57.52 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (i=QuantumB@cpe-72-190-35-98.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 16:58.07 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 17:01.54 | Epyon | reads through yesterdays log to check what has been happening xP |
| 17:01.57 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-138-199-53.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:05.58 | JeffM | ahh so you heard about the take over by the serbian rebels then? |
| 17:07.29 | JeffM | anyone know of a graphical SVN client that isn't tort, or rapidSVN for windows? |
| 17:10.08 | blast007 | http://www.syntevo.com/smartsvn/index.html <-- that might be one |
| 17:10.33 | JeffM | hmm efficent may be good :) |
| 17:10.51 | JeffM | I have 565 dirs in a repo to move arround :/ |
| 17:11.09 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=6156ffe5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:11.24 | blast007 | JeffM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Subversion_clients |
| 17:11.31 | JeffM | thanks |
| 17:12.16 | JeffM | rapidSVN is trying to check out the files now, I just was curious if anyone had used anything else |
| 17:12.26 | blast007 | http://www.visualsvn.com/buy.html "If you are member of active open source project, you can request a free license for your project." |
| 17:12.38 | JeffM | blast007, this is for work |
| 17:12.44 | blast007 | ah |
| 17:12.48 | blast007 | nvm then ;) |
| 17:12.59 | JeffM | is not typing in 565 folder names into the command line ;) |
| 17:14.10 | cjhopman | is tort not good? I started using it just cause I like the little turtle guy |
| 17:15.06 | JeffM | tort is fine |
| 17:15.13 | JeffM | for development |
| 17:15.28 | JeffM | it is not very fast for large scale repository management |
| 17:16.04 | JeffM | I have to shuffle around groups of dirs, and that is one thing where the shell integration makes it slow |
| 17:16.09 | cjhopman | yeah, I suppose the turtle can't really move that fast and all... |
| 17:16.14 | JeffM | heh |
| 17:16.37 | JeffM | we basicly didn't set up this repository correctly and now its' goten very large |
| 17:16.40 | JeffM | and is going to get bigger |
| 17:17.18 | JeffM | so I need to turn it from a flat list dirs sorted by machine, to a heirarchy based on controll then machine then model then customer. |
| 17:18.35 | blast007 | sounds like fun ;) |
| 17:19.04 | blast007 | write a little C# app to run the correct SVN commands :) |
| 17:22.56 | *** join/#bzflag cjhopman (n=cjhopman@24-183-44-113.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 17:24.17 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 17:28.45 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0E27E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:28.55 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@musictech.MUSC.CWRU.Edu) |
| 17:34.44 | JeffM | blast007, sadly I have to manualy pick what dirs they all go in |
| 17:44.49 | *** part/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-138-199-53.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:45.51 | blast007 | JeffM: fun |
| 17:47.03 | JeffM | indeed |
| 17:48.00 | JeffM | rapidSVN seem to have 'Issues' as well |
| 17:49.20 | Erroneous | rapidsvn is crap (sadly) |
| 17:49.52 | JeffM | so it would seem |
| 17:49.54 | Erroneous | I use tortoise even though I hate shell extensions...that's how bad rapidsvn is |
| 17:50.05 | JeffM | heh |
| 17:50.26 | Erroneous | like I seriously tried to get it to work reliably, change my workflow, whatever. no go. |
| 17:50.41 | JeffM | time for plan C |
| 17:51.17 | L4m3r | shell integration is so 2002 |
| 17:51.27 | Erroneous | if you're just trying to get the vmms organized, you can try turning off svn icons in tortoise |
| 17:51.42 | JeffM | it's working in tort, it's just slow |
| 17:51.52 | Erroneous | but then you have to be careful of what you've committed and what you haven't |
| 17:51.55 | JeffM | andI have non versioned files |
| 17:52.00 | Erroneous | ahh |
| 17:52.08 | Erroneous | should probably do it from a clean copy |
| 17:52.13 | JeffM | so i"m going to get clean on my laptop |
| 17:52.15 | L4m3r | the Windows shell stinks... I don't understand why app developers integrate stuff into it |
| 17:52.57 | Epyon | L4m3r, it's pretty usefull with cygwin/ruby underneath :P |
| 17:54.30 | JeffM | Epyon, explorer shell, not command line terminal |
| 17:55.43 | JeffM | L4m3r, cus people know it, and it's there, and if done right it can make for a good workflow if you like clicky things ;) |
| 17:56.03 | JeffM | I mean right click on a folder, zip.. that's kinda cool from an end user standpoint |
| 17:57.10 | Epyon | JeffM, ah D:. Havn't seen it for a long time -- I use total commander instead :/ |
| 17:57.27 | L4m3r | well, yeah, but Microsoft built that into Windows seamlessly, and it works well |
| 17:57.41 | Epyon | Duh, a bath does wonders after a heavy night -_- |
| 17:57.44 | JeffM | Epyon, I was just telling what he was refering too |
| 17:57.44 | L4m3r | most shell-integrated apps look like they're bodged on, and don't flow so nicely |
| 17:57.54 | JeffM | L4m3r, I was talking about like winzip |
| 17:58.14 | JeffM | L4m3r, well that's just poor software design |
| 17:58.19 | L4m3r | I never liked WinZip's shell |
| 17:58.20 | JeffM | ms could also add better hooks |
| 17:58.36 | L4m3r | but when M$ licensed their stuff and did it themselves, it was a lot nicer |
| 17:58.44 | JeffM | heh |
| 17:58.51 | JeffM | again software design |
| 17:59.08 | JeffM | I don't think the concept is bad, just some implementations |
| 17:59.21 | L4m3r | you mean most implementations :P |
| 17:59.43 | L4m3r | the hooks might suck, I dunno |
| 18:00.08 | JeffM | between tort an ankh I'm happy with my SVN tools for day to day |
| 18:00.26 | JeffM | I just wish I could get some of the tort features into ankh |
| 18:00.38 | JeffM | ankh's lot viewer sucks |
| 18:00.46 | L4m3r | and no, it's not a bad concept... just a bad shell and bad software |
| 18:00.59 | L4m3r | KDE does shell integration really, really well. |
| 18:01.21 | JeffM | and they have an IDE ;) |
| 18:01.40 | L4m3r | but KDE's shell doesn't suck rocks, so it's easier to do it well :P |
| 18:01.53 | JeffM | guesses he dosn't need to keep "assvmm" and "assvmm2" |
| 18:02.08 | L4m3r | sounds like a fun project |
| 18:02.11 | L4m3r | :P |
| 18:02.16 | L4m3r | goes to take an exam |
| 18:02.20 | JeffM | good luck |
| 18:02.24 | L4m3r | thx |
| 18:09.23 | brlcad | [dmp]: for what it's worth (and you've maybe already thought of this), karma has both user-interface aspects in the client, server hooks, and database/bzauthd backend aspects |
| 18:17.00 | *** join/#bzflag bier (n=bier@p54A55D36.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:20.44 | JeffM | fixes Erroneous' install notes |
| 18:21.27 | Erroneous | hm? |
| 18:21.34 | JeffM | vmmm creator |
| 18:21.39 | Erroneous | ah, for 8.0 |
| 18:21.43 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:21.47 | Erroneous | confesses to not updating them |
| 18:21.48 | JeffM | instructions still said 7.1 |
| 18:21.54 | JeffM | all good now |
| 18:21.59 | JeffM | I'm trying it out on a new one |
| 18:22.01 | Erroneous | the directories and stuff changed too iirc |
| 18:22.10 | JeffM | yeah they did |
| 18:22.23 | Erroneous | heh, and I accidentally upgraded the actual project to vc9 |
| 18:22.33 | JeffM | you fixed that right? |
| 18:22.40 | Erroneous | doesn't matter |
| 18:22.45 | Erroneous | the project never gets read |
| 18:22.51 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:22.58 | Erroneous | the generated project is in the correct format |
| 18:23.41 | JeffM | whoa... get a security warning on the dialog |
| 18:23.52 | Erroneous | yeah, if you have ie7 installed it'll dot hat |
| 18:24.00 | Erroneous | a WEE bit annoying |
| 18:24.07 | JeffM | every time? |
| 18:24.13 | Erroneous | every time |
| 18:24.20 | JeffM | oh that will not do |
| 18:24.33 | Erroneous | add it to your trusted sites list |
| 18:32.50 | donny_baker | n/name |
| 18:33.01 | Constitution | ~n |
| 18:33.01 | ibot | i guess n is the disease bzflag players get when they play too much. There is no cure. |
| 18:34.08 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 18:36.59 | Alesis-Novik | anyone want to chat about the bzrobot? :) |
| 18:37.21 | Constitution | sure |
| 18:38.06 | Alesis-Novik | I saw that it is incomplete, and i am hoping to sign up to GSoC under it :) |
| 18:38.38 | Epyon | Alesis-Novik, sounds great :P |
| 18:39.29 | Epyon | I'd really like to see the bots on a level that would make playing BZF singleplayer a viable option. |
| 18:39.33 | Alesis-Novik | i am realy interested in developing AI, i read quite alot, but didn't realy do much practical work with it :) |
| 18:39.48 | Constitution | Alesis-Novik: have you read the BZRobots wiki pages? |
| 18:39.48 | Alesis-Novik | but I'm a fast learner :) |
| 18:39.49 | delusional | have you seen the various wiki pages, such as http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZRobots/Protocol |
| 18:39.53 | Alesis-Novik | yep |
| 18:39.58 | Alesis-Novik | Constitution : yes |
| 18:40.05 | Constitution | cool |
| 18:40.21 | Epyon | Alesis-Novik, get the code from the repo and compile it (BZFlag included) -- it's a good start :) |
| 18:40.36 | Erroneous | finds it mildly ironic that Epyon gives that suggestion :) |
| 18:40.43 | Erroneous | but he's right |
| 18:41.31 | Erroneous | as far as details for the AI stuff go, you should talk to brlcad, daxxar, or amcnabb, if you see them around. |
| 18:41.50 | Epyon | Erroneous, who else would be best suited to give that advice than the person who failed to do it in time? :P |
| 18:41.55 | Constitution | daxxar is now jorgenpt |
| 18:42.19 | Erroneous | Epyon: I know :) nice to see you learned something ;) |
| 18:42.29 | Alesis-Novik | Epyon : you were doing it? |
| 18:42.53 | donny_baker | ~Epyon++ |
| 18:42.57 | donny_baker | for effort :) |
| 18:43.05 | Epyon | Erroneous, I learned a lot -- like having everything I do under SVN now :P |
| 18:43.20 | Epyon | Alesis-Novik, no, but I was a GSoC student last year. |
| 18:43.27 | Erroneous | Alesis-Novik: we recommended to Epyon exactly what he just recommended to you, before last years SoC...he didn't actually do it until like halfway through the project. |
| 18:43.46 | Epyon | hides in shame. |
| 18:43.53 | Erroneous | version control is awesome, is it not? :) |
| 18:44.16 | Alesis-Novik | yes it is ;) |
| 18:44.43 | Constitution | I think Epyon also picked up brlcad's style of code one line, commit, code another line, commit ;) |
| 18:44.50 | Constitution | (kidding, kidding) |
| 18:44.53 | Erroneous | Epyon: some people learn the easy way, some people learn the hard way :) |
| 18:45.20 | Epyon | Constitution, I think that wore off now :) |
| 18:45.41 | Erroneous | prefers lots of small commits to gigantic checkins of untested code |
| 18:45.51 | Epyon | too. |
| 18:46.07 | Alesis-Novik | takes notes |
| 18:46.09 | Constitution | true, but there's still a balance ;) |
| 18:46.23 | Erroneous | Constitution: it's not really possible to commit too much |
| 18:46.49 | Erroneous | assuming you're following the other devinfo rules at least (i.e. it builds and works after every commit) |
| 18:47.20 | jorgenpt | Yay for people talking about me. :) |
| 18:47.39 | jorgenpt | Boo for people talking about work I should've done more of |
| 18:49.31 | whodaman | :D |
| 18:49.51 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-163-117.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 18:50.17 | Alesis-Novik | jorgenpt : so you did the robot? :) |
| 18:50.42 | jorgenpt | I'm daxxar, I did the work on the current prototype of bzrobots, but it was based on the work of amcnabb |
| 18:51.37 | Alesis-Novik | hmm |
| 18:52.47 | jorgenpt | It was my GSoC |
| 18:53.02 | JeffM | I've never seen jorgenpt dance, but i'm sure he can do the robot |
| 18:53.11 | jorgenpt | does the robot |
| 18:53.19 | Winny | stabs JeffM |
| 18:53.26 | Alesis-Novik | any tips on getting selected ;) |
| 18:53.30 | JeffM | good afternoon to you too |
| 18:53.45 | JeffM | Alesis-Novik, don't try to propose more then you can do |
| 18:53.47 | Winny | " but he tends to want every site to be difrent" ... I've had the same BZF.org design for like 7 months, no? |
| 18:53.53 | JeffM | and have a very detailed proposal |
| 18:54.13 | JeffM | Winny, you have and I really like it |
| 18:54.13 | jorgenpt | And perform certain .. favours on the administrators |
| 18:54.22 | JeffM | no, no favors |
| 18:54.31 | JeffM | big things would be to start now |
| 18:54.38 | Winny | JeffM: oh |
| 18:54.38 | JeffM | Winny, I just want them to look consitent |
| 18:54.54 | JeffM | I do REALY like your design Winny it's just the subtle varitiaons I don |
| 18:55.13 | Winny | yay :) |
| 18:55.22 | Alesis-Novik | well, i'll start looking at the BZRobot then ;) |
| 18:55.24 | JeffM | can you make a wiki header that has ether a smooth blend from the image to white? or a hard edge |
| 18:55.30 | JeffM | and take out the icon shadow |
| 18:55.32 | Erroneous | and hang out here |
| 18:55.42 | Winny | JeffM: which icon? the folder? |
| 18:55.50 | Winny | or the "BZFlag Wiki" text? |
| 18:56.00 | JeffM | Winny, no the kind of shaadowy icon blob you threw over the image |
| 18:56.34 | Constitution | Alesis-Novik: if you haven't already, I would download the game, join a server, and shoot a few tanks... some background on the game would be to your advantage |
| 18:56.42 | Saturos | I wonder if you got that idea from my old phago poster.. I did exactly the same with the icon shapes. :O |
| 18:56.46 | Erroneous | we tend to favor applications from people that have been involved in soliciting community advice, mostly here. not to mention your application can really shine if you know what we have and what we want really well ;) |
| 18:56.48 | Saturos | even the same angle |
| 18:56.54 | JeffM | heh |
| 18:57.09 | JeffM | I did like the icon shape over the white area in the drupal logo, but I don't like them over the image |
| 18:57.12 | Alesis-Novik | Constitution : done that ;) |
| 18:57.17 | Winny | Saturos: which icons? .. |
| 18:57.18 | Constitution | good :) |
| 18:57.24 | Alesis-Novik | Constitution: only i got shot :D |
| 18:57.40 | Constitution | that's understandable, at first :) |
| 18:57.51 | JeffM | Alesis-Novik, well to do good bots you'll have to play to find out what a good player does ;) |
| 18:57.59 | Saturos | Winny: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Image:BZFlag_2010_shiny.png |
| 18:58.28 | JeffM | Winny, we were just talking about creating a set of art standards for bzflag, to keep things consistent between the sites, since as you have said, many sites use the same style and layout ideas |
| 18:58.28 | Saturos | the icon tank is in there although very subtle |
| 18:58.42 | Winny | You're the only one that does image overlays? I wasn't aware... |
| 18:59.04 | Saturos | heh, I didnt want to be offensive.. I just wondered |
| 18:59.11 | Saturos | sorry |
| 18:59.14 | Winny | saw it on some PSD site |
| 18:59.26 | JeffM | you have to admit that some of your art, can look similar to some of his art Winny |
| 18:59.31 | JeffM | that's not a bad thing |
| 18:59.35 | JeffM | great minds and all. |
| 18:59.47 | whodaman | heh |
| 18:59.51 | JeffM | and the point of this entire thing is to share |
| 18:59.52 | Erroneous | not to mention it helps keep a consistent theme |
| 18:59.56 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:00.16 | JeffM | consistency in our art and services goes a long way to making us look a lot more profestional |
| 19:00.23 | JeffM | mmmmmmmm raw fish :) |
| 19:00.32 | whodaman | profenstional indeed |
| 19:00.41 | Erroneous | haha |
| 19:00.41 | Winny | hehe |
| 19:00.45 | JeffM | heh |
| 19:00.56 | JeffM | that is a word worthy of our presedent :) |
| 19:01.03 | JeffM | I think you misunderestimated me |
| 19:01.05 | Winny | hehe |
| 19:01.12 | Saturos | :D |
| 19:01.16 | Winny | "I feel that honesty is, the best way to tell the truth" |
| 19:01.45 | JeffM | he is a nutjob |
| 19:02.05 | JeffM | but basicly, one I'd like the wiki image to be more in line with the other sites. |
| 19:02.18 | JeffM | and two, it would be cool to have a wiki page that has our art guidelines |
| 19:02.29 | Winny | http://youtube.com/watch?v=FLhQHeyOrnY |
| 19:02.32 | Winny | not a rickroll |
| 19:02.32 | JeffM | what fonts we use, what art we use, how we do BZFlag, etcc |
| 19:03.03 | JeffM | I would provide the logo, icon, and titlebar images there in many reses |
| 19:03.07 | JeffM | that kinda stuff |
| 19:03.30 | JeffM | and then do what we can to make all our stuff fit those guidelines |
| 19:03.50 | JeffM | I'd even go so far as to show what the "standard" team colors are in RGB and HTML |
| 19:03.55 | Winny | fixes the wiki header |
| 19:04.03 | JeffM | thanks :) |
| 19:04.08 | Winny | sure |
| 19:04.12 | Saturos | that video is hilarious |
| 19:04.30 | Winny | that guy is awesome.. he does about 30 people perfectly |
| 19:05.30 | Saturos | "still more than a half".. lol |
| 19:08.23 | Winny | JeffM: like this? http://bzfusion.net/BZFWiki/WikiLogo.png |
| 19:08.41 | Winny | want the PSD? you can probably do a better job |
| 19:08.50 | JeffM | is that the same font that is used in the folder icon? |
| 19:08.58 | Winny | checks |
| 19:08.58 | JeffM | don't sell yourself short it looks good |
| 19:09.20 | Winny | Ahh, no, the folder is cooper black |
| 19:09.44 | JeffM | I think they shoudl be the same, as they look very similar |
| 19:10.05 | Epyon | Duh, why does all of the interesting discussion happen when I'm away -_- |
| 19:10.17 | JeffM | Epyon, we wait for those times |
| 19:10.31 | Winny | http://bzfusion.net/BZFWiki/WikiLogo2.png |
| 19:10.42 | JeffM | very nice |
| 19:10.49 | Saturos | the font looks weird |
| 19:10.57 | delusional | is the default for tank treads covered or exposed? |
| 19:10.58 | JeffM | Saturos, I kinda like it |
| 19:10.58 | Saturos | like if it has a white outline |
| 19:11.00 | Winny | Yeah, it does look a touch odd that big |
| 19:11.22 | Epyon | JeffM, you confirmed my suspicions -_- |
| 19:11.23 | JeffM | feel free to change it, I'd just do it the same in both places |
| 19:11.37 | Winny | http://bzfusion.net/BZFWiki/WikiLogo.psd <-- if you wanna play with it |
| 19:11.43 | JeffM | don't have PS here |
| 19:11.47 | JeffM | but I may later |
| 19:11.51 | JeffM | is it in the SVN? |
| 19:11.55 | Winny | adds it |
| 19:11.58 | JeffM | cool |
| 19:13.32 | Winny | JeffM, http://art.bzflagr.net/svnroot/BZWiki/ |
| 19:13.56 | JeffM | ibot artsvn is http://art.bzflagr.net/svnroot/ |
| 19:13.56 | ibot | JeffM: okay |
| 19:15.09 | JeffM | finds bugs in Erroneous' stuff |
| 19:15.15 | Erroneous | w00t! |
| 19:15.20 | donny_baker | should we add it to the SVN page? or a seperate art SVN? |
| 19:15.33 | Erroneous | what'd I do? |
| 19:15.39 | JeffM | donny_baker, it shoudl go on an art standards page |
| 19:15.58 | donny_baker | Erroneous: copied Jeff's code? :P |
| 19:16.03 | JeffM | Erroneous, UnRegister, gc_ClearCustomDataDesc can't take a const char |
| 19:16.19 | Erroneous | JeffM: updated api.h recently? |
| 19:16.25 | JeffM | probalby not |
| 19:16.28 | JeffM | thanks |
| 19:16.34 | Epyon | Winny, an art svn? Maybe my promised textures are there? xP |
| 19:16.46 | Winny | runs |
| 19:16.49 | Erroneous | constified half a dozen functions so he wouldn't have to type "const_cast<char*>" too much |
| 19:17.54 | JeffM | yay I broke 8.9 too |
| 19:18.00 | Erroneous | woohoo |
| 19:19.24 | spldart | sounds like it's hitting the fan :) |
| 19:21.39 | uso | JeffM: I don't see it's used anywhere, but shouldn't that check be the opposite, i.e. Pause != 0 ? |
| 19:21.47 | uso | v2_0branch, src/bzflag/playing.cxx, line 2018: tank->setPausedMessageState(Pause == 0); |
| 19:22.03 | delusional | when it hit's, it's not the sound that you're worried about. |
| 19:22.21 | JeffM | uso, huh? I can't read your mind |
| 19:23.32 | uso | JeffM: you are setting the pause message state when Pause is null, but shouldn't it be set if Pause is set, i.e. not null? |
| 19:23.41 | JeffM | spldart, naw, I knew I could have busted something. I rewrote a chunk of the code, and its running regression tests. |
| 19:23.48 | JeffM | uso, me personaly? |
| 19:24.04 | JeffM | I don't have all the code in my imediate memory |
| 19:24.10 | uso | svn blames you for beeing the last one who changed that line |
| 19:24.14 | JeffM | you need to like work up to it |
| 19:24.28 | JeffM | ok, that still dosn't mean I can just jump on what you are saying |
| 19:24.33 | JeffM | if it's worng fix it |
| 19:26.05 | JeffM | just make sure that case is for when you are pausing, not unpausing |
| 19:26.32 | uso | JeffM: I'm not sure, and because I don't see that message state used anywhere so far I'm asking if it's wrong |
| 19:26.42 | JeffM | I don't know off the top of my head |
| 19:26.49 | JeffM | use a debuger and step thru it |
| 19:27.05 | JeffM | you can also compare it to trunk |
| 19:27.09 | JeffM | branch is very old |
| 19:27.19 | JeffM | how long ago does the log say I hit that line? |
| 19:28.07 | uso | half a year |
| 19:28.31 | JeffM | do you remember all the code you changed half a year ago based on one line? ;) |
| 19:33.00 | uso | hehe no, but you changed only this line in the file and I don't see the correlation to the commit message (something about end shot detection) |
| 19:33.15 | JeffM | it could be a mistake |
| 19:33.17 | JeffM | change it and test |
| 19:33.19 | spldart | Gah! a spider just came down on a thread and landed on your name uso :~) |
| 19:33.27 | uso | but anyway, it's client side, so it doesn't bother me much at the moment |
| 19:33.50 | JeffM | it bothered you enough to as about it with no lead up in the IRC channel ;) |
| 19:33.52 | Epyon | spldart, make a screenshot xP |
| 19:33.53 | uso | eeek, spiders |
| 19:33.58 | spldart | LOL |
| 19:34.27 | spldart | darn buggy code :-p |
| 19:35.52 | JeffM | but seriously, change it, and step thru in a debuger then you can be sure |
| 19:37.53 | *** join/#bzflag torghul (n=chatzill@88.242.75.192) |
| 19:40.18 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-163-117.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 19:42.29 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 19:43.58 | Winny | oi.. the 9800 GX2 is 600$ |
| 19:45.27 | whodaman | nice.. |
| 19:48.22 | *** join/#bzflag kirun (n=kirun@10.126.gr5.adsl.brightview.com) |
| 19:51.12 | Winny | JeffM: shall I redo the header tanks with the new one? Has that been finalized as the new tank? |
| 19:51.54 | Epyon | Funny -- the SoC wiki page states "Enhanced cross-platform multiple display support" as a project... |
| 19:52.02 | JeffM | techicaly we don't have UV maps for the new tank |
| 19:52.13 | JeffM | but I think the geometry is prety final |
| 19:52.22 | Winny | blender can make a pretty good UV automatically |
| 19:52.23 | JeffM | Epyon, why is that funny? |
| 19:52.47 | JeffM | Winny, yeah it can, but I don't want just the camo wraped around randomly |
| 19:52.49 | Epyon | Because so does libSDL in it's GSoC's proposals :) |
| 19:52.59 | JeffM | hah |
| 19:53.27 | JeffM | Winny, I'd like it to have a real UV map where we can put details on the texture, like grills on the back, paint scratches, panel lines, ec.. |
| 19:53.29 | Erroneous | mmm, interesting |
| 19:53.43 | JeffM | having the display support in SDL would be much better |
| 19:53.50 | Epyon | JeffM, what is the model format? I could unwrap the UV's |
| 19:53.58 | JeffM | Epyon, ojb |
| 19:53.59 | Erroneous | we'd still need some changes in BZ to support it |
| 19:54.00 | Winny | JeffM: mm, ok |
| 19:54.01 | JeffM | obj |
| 19:54.10 | Epyon | JeffM, is it in svn? |
| 19:54.10 | Erroneous | but yeah, if we did it we'd probably need to change SDL anyway |
| 19:54.15 | JeffM | Epyon, no |
| 19:54.24 | JeffM | Erroneous, or go away from it |
| 19:54.31 | Epyon | JeffM, can I get hold of it? :) |
| 19:54.48 | JeffM | Epyon, yes |
| 19:54.48 | KTL | mmm ... the texture of a tank remembers all the previous impacts ... lots of black spots ... |
| 19:55.04 | KTL | try to remain spotless as long as possible :) |
| 19:55.29 | JeffM | http://www.opencombat.net/files/geometry/ |
| 19:55.35 | JeffM | V6 is the latest |
| 19:56.18 | Epyon | Okay, now lets try to find a way to load it into max |
| 19:56.32 | JeffM | Epyon, file -> import |
| 19:56.56 | Epyon | Yep, luckily it is supported :D |
| 19:57.02 | JeffM | not luck skill |
| 19:57.13 | KTL | that's a nice model |
| 19:57.19 | JeffM | obj is the closest thing to a universaly suported model format |
| 20:01.12 | Winny | Hmm, the new tank looks kind of odd on the header |
| 20:01.21 | Winny | it's the "bulging" turret |
| 20:01.31 | JeffM | then perhaps a chane in perspective is in order |
| 20:01.55 | Winny | Yeah, I could do that, the image doesn't really have a perspective |
| 20:03.38 | Epyon | Wierd... |
| 20:03.47 | brlcad | Constitution: you can hardly ever commit too frequently |
| 20:04.00 | Epyon | I cant do a simultanous unwrap on multiple objects... |
| 20:05.31 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=6156ffe5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:06.02 | brlcad | wonders where jorgenpt and Alesis-Novik's discussion thread went |
| 20:06.14 | *** part/#bzflag Ride (n=6156ffe5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:09.56 | Epyon | JeffM, the model is broken in a couple of places |
| 20:10.09 | JeffM | what do you mean by broken? |
| 20:10.11 | JeffM | uncaped? |
| 20:10.25 | Epyon | double vertices/edges |
| 20:10.34 | JeffM | ahh yeah that's an old export |
| 20:10.40 | JeffM | you can fix em |
| 20:10.46 | spldart | bbl |
| 20:10.51 | Epyon | on the sides of the turret |
| 20:10.52 | JeffM | I did not model it in obj format |
| 20:10.56 | JeffM | ok, fix em |
| 20:11.03 | Winny | You should set the client to do auto tank updates so on april fools you can change the tanks to giant heads ;) |
| 20:11.16 | JeffM | Winny, IT was seriously thought about |
| 20:11.18 | JeffM | but not heads |
| 20:11.27 | JeffM | pink ponies |
| 20:11.35 | jorgenpt | brlcad: Sorry? |
| 20:11.48 | Winny | JeffM: :D |
| 20:14.09 | *** join/#bzflag torghul (n=chatzill@88.242.75.192) |
| 20:14.22 | Winny | Mirror mirror on the wall, who can I sucker in to doing the IE 6 fixes on the drupal template? |
| 20:14.24 | brlcad | jorgenpt: just noticed that the talk just kinda stopped :) |
| 20:14.30 | Winny | glares at blast007 |
| 20:14.31 | brlcad | about bzrobotos |
| 20:15.02 | jorgenpt | brlcad: Sorry, I'm in the middle of setting up some streamstuff here at TG08 |
| 20:15.35 | brlcad | nods |
| 20:16.21 | Epyon | JeffM, how would you like to UV's to be? |
| 20:16.27 | jorgenpt | We open the doors tomorrow at 9AM, so then ~4500 crazy geeks will come pouring in ;P |
| 20:16.45 | Epyon | JeffM, shall I mirror the left/right tracks in the same UV space or seperate? |
| 20:19.50 | JeffM | the tracks go in there own texture and are special |
| 20:19.55 | JeffM | supper special |
| 20:20.00 | JeffM | cus they are animated |
| 20:20.15 | JeffM | but yes they sare mapings on left and right |
| 20:20.37 | JeffM | they are animated with a V slide |
| 20:20.46 | Epyon | So I need not to waste place for the tracks? |
| 20:20.52 | JeffM | no you do not |
| 20:21.06 | *** part/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0E27E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:21.14 | JeffM | trunk is already setup to load the tread texture for them |
| 20:21.15 | Epyon | The Drivetrain goes in however? |
| 20:21.24 | JeffM | 'yes the drive train does |
| 20:21.33 | JeffM | all other objects are in the same texture |
| 20:21.42 | Epyon | What about the covered parts, should they have their space? |
| 20:22.03 | JeffM | there should not be many faces that are hidden |
| 20:22.23 | JeffM | remember that some that look hidden now are shown during the explostion |
| 20:22.28 | Epyon | I mean what to do with the faces that sit between components :) |
| 20:22.30 | JeffM | like the inner sides of the boddy |
| 20:22.36 | JeffM | yes they need to have space |
| 20:22.41 | JeffM | cus they will show when they blow |
| 20:22.44 | Epyon | Ok |
| 20:22.54 | JeffM | there we will do textures for broken compoentns, and stuch |
| 20:23.40 | Epyon | The whole tank (except the treads) goes into a single texture, or each element to a separate one? |
| 20:24.11 | *** join/#bzflag javawizard2539 (n=chatzill@c-24-10-227-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:28.26 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 20:29.47 | JeffM | Epyon, one texture for all tank parts |
| 20:29.51 | JeffM | except threads |
| 20:29.54 | Winny | 1024x1024? :) |
| 20:29.54 | JeffM | treads |
| 20:30.01 | JeffM | Winny, size matters not for UV maping |
| 20:30.16 | JeffM | Epyon, we only load 2 textures for the tank, the camo, and the tread |
| 20:30.17 | JeffM | that's it |
| 20:30.28 | Winny | If you wanted to brush on some fancy details, it might be nice |
| 20:31.00 | JeffM | Winny, yes but that doesn't matter for the actual UV maping |
| 20:31.05 | *** join/#bzflag EmoNemo (n=Gigi@unaffiliated/emonemo) |
| 20:31.06 | JeffM | the UV is a floating point coordinate |
| 20:31.09 | JeffM | not tied to a res |
| 20:31.15 | JeffM | we can use any res texture after it's UVed |
| 20:31.19 | Winny | ahh, I thought Epyon was working on the UV mapping and the image |
| 20:31.28 | JeffM | he is making the UV maps |
| 20:31.35 | JeffM | I have not heard him say anything about making an image |
| 20:31.47 | JeffM | othen then I hope a layout template |
| 20:32.23 | Epyon | I'm playing around now -- we'll need to see if max doesnt ****up the result anyway |
| 20:32.51 | JeffM | just make sure you can export in some readable format |
| 20:32.54 | JeffM | few can read max files |
| 20:33.19 | Epyon | JeffM, I plan on exporting it back to obj, but I'm unsure wheter the results will be good |
| 20:33.28 | JeffM | ok |
| 20:34.11 | Epyon | You'll have to try to load up the result in some other program then :) |
| 20:41.18 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@adsl-70-240-215-57.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 20:44.26 | JeffM | Epyon, I have stuff that reads obj |
| 20:44.31 | JeffM | including tankview |
| 20:45.42 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude-@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net) |
| 20:45.47 | jude- | hello all |
| 20:46.01 | Winny | hey jude-! :D |
| 20:46.09 | Manu | hey jude... don't make it bad.. ;) |
| 20:46.12 | JeffM | word up |
| 20:46.15 | Winny | ~heyjude |
| 20:46.16 | ibot | Hey, Jude-, go ahead and make it bad. |
| 20:46.18 | Winny | :) |
| 20:46.20 | jude- | ~kill ibot |
| 20:46.21 | ibot | ACTION shoots a hyper-charged quark gun at ibot |
| 20:49.12 | Epyon | wonders how much mirroring should he do in the texture UV's |
| 20:49.17 | JeffM | none please |
| 20:49.27 | JeffM | I woudl like to make the sides diferent |
| 20:49.33 | Epyon | Ah ok :) |
| 20:49.47 | JeffM | I want to burn in some shading, and scuff marks, etc.. |
| 20:49.59 | Winny | JeffM: do some texture baking :) |
| 20:50.01 | JeffM | and perhaps team logos on the sides, etc.. |
| 20:50.06 | JeffM | Winny, some maybe |
| 20:50.13 | Winny | not shadows, just some AO |
| 20:50.23 | JeffM | something like that yeah |
| 20:50.46 | JeffM | mirroring would prevent that |
| 21:01.35 | Winny | JeffM, are the shirts going on sale at the end of the week? (t-shirts) |
| 21:02.05 | *** join/#bzflag F687s___ (n=noah@cpe-71-67-112-44.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 21:04.19 | blast007 | JeffM: I'll probably be ordering a shirt as well, but I got in the pre-order for the hoodie. anything special I need to do once the shirts are available? |
| 21:10.36 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-254-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:11.40 | jftsang | are shots tracked by BZFS in 3.0? |
| 21:11.44 | Winny | nope |
| 21:11.47 | Winny | only GM I think |
| 21:12.30 | jftsang | consults bzfsAPI.h |
| 21:14.01 | blast007 | the API probably isn't going to answer that question |
| 21:14.12 | jftsang | I see bz_eShotFiredEvent, but no other events under the Wiki page |
| 21:14.24 | blast007 | okay? |
| 21:14.44 | blast007 | just because it's not in the API doesn't mean that bzfs itself doesn't do it |
| 21:14.45 | Epyon | Hmm, does this seem "clear"? http://bzflag.chaosforge.org/images/turret.png |
| 21:15.13 | Winny | I think so, maybe make the tracks bigger? |
| 21:15.20 | Winny | err, drivetrains |
| 21:15.24 | jftsang | well, for my purposes (i.e. plugin making), you get the idea |
| 21:15.35 | Winny | oh wait.. that's the side of the turret |
| 21:15.38 | Winny | wow I'm stupid |
| 21:15.40 | Epyon | :D |
| 21:15.46 | Winny | goes back to his hidey hole |
| 21:20.57 | jftsang | wasn't BZFS originally planned to track things like shots and bots in the next version though? |
| 21:21.04 | jftsang | to combat cheating |
| 21:21.12 | Winny | lots of things are planned |
| 21:21.16 | JeffM | plan? |
| 21:21.24 | Winny | oh my mistake |
| 21:21.26 | Winny | thought of* |
| 21:21.33 | JeffM | blast007, I'll send you a shipping credit then |
| 21:21.46 | blast007 | ok |
| 21:22.45 | blast007 | jftsang: you have to understand. There really is no plan. |
| 21:23.15 | jude- | jftsang: apply to GSoC 2008 to combat cheating |
| 21:23.26 | Winny | jude-: you apply :) |
| 21:23.39 | whodaman | jude-, woot! |
| 21:24.02 | jude- | is definitely applying to the anti-cheating proposition |
| 21:24.12 | jude- | as well as BZWB (again) |
| 21:24.16 | Winny | :D |
| 21:24.18 | Winny | yay jude |
| 21:24.43 | jude- | Winny: you should learn C++ and apply too :) |
| 21:25.01 | Winny | still has 2 summers until he can apply |
| 21:25.06 | Winny | being born in december sucks |
| 21:25.17 | jude- | aww |
| 21:25.23 | whodaman | being you sucks |
| 21:25.24 | whodaman | runs |
| 21:25.33 | whodaman | (me is also born in december) |
| 21:28.01 | JeffM | Winny, the shirts won't go on sale till I get them |
| 21:29.20 | Think_Differentl | wants to learn C++ and apply for the GSoC |
| 21:29.31 | JeffM | Erroneous and I will hand check them before we sell them |
| 21:29.50 | JeffM | and no GM is not tracked, yet |
| 21:30.03 | Erroneous | gm is busted anyway |
| 21:30.09 | JeffM | we want all the shots to be tracked, but has not been done yet |
| 21:30.20 | Winny | Think_Differentl, gotta be 18 |
| 21:30.39 | Think_Differentl | Winny, isn't there something like the GSoC but for high school students? |
| 21:30.44 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 21:30.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:30.54 | Winny | Think_Differentl, yeah, somewhere |
| 21:31.09 | Winny | I don't think you get paid though.. but I'm probably wrong |
| 21:31.20 | Think_Differentl | http://code.google.com/opensource/ghop/2007-8/ |
| 21:31.39 | Winny | that's too close to ihop for my liking |
| 21:31.54 | Winny | "so where do you work?" "ghop" "oh ihop?" |
| 21:32.07 | Think_Differentl | hehe |
| 21:33.13 | jftsang | when linking BZFlag3.0, the linker complains that it could not find freetype234_D.lib |
| 21:33.48 | jftsang | but I have built freetype project |
| 21:34.21 | Winny | Doesn't 3.0 come with the required libs? |
| 21:35.50 | jftsang | rebuilds the whole thing |
| 21:36.03 | JeffM | jftsang, what compiler? |
| 21:36.07 | jftsang | MSVC8ee |
| 21:36.17 | JeffM | hmm should work |
| 21:37.05 | jftsang | should I be using Singlethreaded or Multithreaded? |
| 21:38.36 | JeffM | what are oyu doing? |
| 21:38.46 | JeffM | you should not be changing anything |
| 21:38.56 | JeffM | what build target are you using? |
| 21:40.01 | jftsang | Win32 Release |
| 21:41.04 | JeffM | did you change anything in any of the projects? |
| 21:41.20 | JeffM | cus the _d freetype is a debug lib |
| 21:41.42 | jftsang | I didn't change anything in any project |
| 21:41.49 | JeffM | how current is the code? |
| 21:41.54 | JeffM | and is it a clean dir? |
| 21:42.04 | jftsang | updated twenty minutes ago |
| 21:42.13 | JeffM | in a clean dir? |
| 21:42.53 | jftsang | clean? |
| 21:43.01 | jftsang | I had some older code there |
| 21:43.05 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:43.09 | JeffM | that could be the issue |
| 21:43.12 | JeffM | we moved stuff around |
| 21:43.20 | JeffM | checkout into a new dir and try it |
| 21:48.26 | *** join/#bzflag torghul (n=chatzill@88.242.75.192) |
| 21:48.58 | javawizard2539 | So I went back to MSVC2005 |
| 21:49.17 | javawizard2539 | But now I'm getting errors that windows.h can't be opened |
| 21:49.29 | javawizard2539 | I made sure to add the platform SDK include and lib folders |
| 21:49.36 | blast007 | platform sdk isn't installed/configured right |
| 21:49.43 | Winny | make sure you build in single thread mode, too |
| 21:49.49 | JeffM | Winny, what? |
| 21:49.50 | Winny | (for 2.0.x) |
| 21:49.58 | javawizard2539 | I'm compiling trunk |
| 21:50.01 | JeffM | no, we should damn well be threaded |
| 21:50.15 | Winny | sorry, brain fart.. I saw "MSVC2" and thought of 2.0 |
| 21:50.20 | JeffM | 2.0 is threaded too |
| 21:50.33 | Winny | eh? Last time I tried it only built one thing at a time? |
| 21:50.42 | JeffM | Winny, every bin build has been multi threaded |
| 21:50.51 | JeffM | Winny, OHH |
| 21:50.59 | JeffM | you are using the term wrong |
| 21:51.06 | JeffM | you want to set it to compile 1 thing at a time |
| 21:51.13 | Winny | yeah, sorry |
| 21:51.13 | JeffM | NOT set the project to run single threaded |
| 21:51.31 | JeffM | don't say "set single threaded" cus there is an option in the project that says just that |
| 21:51.35 | javawizard2539 | I think I may have found the problem |
| 21:51.37 | JeffM | and that will be bad |
| 21:52.43 | javawizard2539 | I added the include and lib folders to the directories for executable files |
| 21:52.50 | JeffM | that'd do it ;) |
| 21:53.01 | javawizard2539 | They are now in the Include and Library folders |
| 21:53.08 | javawizard2539 | is stupid :) |
| 21:53.20 | JeffM | javawizard2539, naw, you just are new to VC |
| 21:53.26 | javawizard2539 | yep |
| 21:53.34 | javawizard2539 | It's recompiling and it appears to have fixed that problem |
| 21:53.40 | JeffM | cool |
| 21:53.42 | JeffM | hope it runs |
| 21:53.58 | Winny | Then you'd need to run after it! |
| 21:54.00 | Winny | ducks |
| 21:54.09 | javawizard2539 | :) |
| 21:54.20 | javawizard2539 | I think I like Java better |
| 21:55.00 | JeffM | you probably do |
| 21:55.34 | Winny | blast007: do you still have your fixes around for pyBZFlag so it would build/run? |
| 21:55.38 | jftsang | I take it that there are a few collision bugs with 2.0 objects? |
| 21:55.52 | blast007 | Winny: yeah |
| 21:56.08 | blast007 | I think I might have had old code though |
| 21:56.08 | JeffM | jftsang, mostly between meshes and non mesh |
| 21:56.20 | blast007 | Winny: where are you pulling from? |
| 21:56.24 | Winny | blast007: Can I have them? We're starting python in a couple weeks at school, and I wanted to see if I could mod it :) |
| 21:57.04 | blast007 | it barely worked |
| 21:57.39 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A570EE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:02.04 | javawizard2539 | IT WORKED!!!!! |
| 22:02.08 | blast007 | yayz |
| 22:02.45 | jftsang | what are the Python files under /bots/? How do I use them? |
| 22:02.59 | blast007 | jftsang: what OS are you on? |
| 22:03.04 | jftsang | Windows |
| 22:03.07 | jftsang | XP |
| 22:03.08 | blast007 | then you don't |
| 22:03.17 | blast007 | they're for bzrobots, which is *nix only right now |
| 22:08.06 | jftsang | apart from BZRobots, is there any way of changing the AI of robots? |
| 22:08.20 | JeffM | change your client |
| 22:08.23 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 22:08.34 | JeffM | hack on rodger, or the solo bots |
| 22:08.41 | jftsang | which files? |
| 22:08.47 | JeffM | tho solo bots are NFG in trunk |
| 22:08.47 | blast007 | search |
| 22:09.00 | JeffM | the logic is spread all over |
| 22:09.11 | JeffM | for rodger look for ther term autopilot |
| 22:09.15 | jftsang | in 2.0, RobotPlayer.cxx? |
| 22:09.22 | blast007 | jftsang: read |
| 22:09.23 | JeffM | thats part of solo bots |
| 22:09.29 | JeffM | it's spread out |
| 22:09.35 | JeffM | you will have to do work |
| 22:09.40 | blast007 | you're not going to find one nice function to modify |
| 22:09.51 | blast007 | think of it like brain surgery :P |
| 22:10.02 | L4m3r | heh |
| 22:10.07 | blast007 | you don't just go in with a screwdriver |
| 22:10.20 | L4m3r | like brain surgery on someone whose brains are splattered all over the backseat of a car, maybe :P |
| 22:10.23 | jftsang | brain surgery is one of the many reasons why I am dreading to study medicine |
| 22:11.37 | L4m3r | studying medicine does not require you to learn how to do brain surgery... |
| 22:11.49 | L4m3r | at least not on anything that's alove |
| 22:11.52 | L4m3r | alive* |
| 22:12.44 | javawizard2539 | So I finally got BZFlag running |
| 22:12.55 | JeffM | javawizard2539, cool, it worked in VC 2005? |
| 22:13.01 | javawizard2539 | Yep |
| 22:13.03 | JeffM | good |
| 22:13.14 | javawizard2539 | There's only one serve rlisted, your test server, but I assume that's because it's 3.0 |
| 22:13.14 | JeffM | 2008 is prety new, we don't have much experience with it |
| 22:13.30 | JeffM | yep |
| 22:13.31 | Epyon | Duh, half of the texture space is taken by usualy not visible faces :? |
| 22:13.33 | Epyon | :/ |
| 22:13.39 | JeffM | Epyon, scale them |
| 22:13.43 | JeffM | they don't need the same res |
| 22:13.50 | javawizard2539 | I like the yelow arrow to the antidote flag |
| 22:13.57 | Epyon | JeffM, can I scale down the ones that wont be seen a lot? |
| 22:14.05 | JeffM | Epyon, thats what I just said |
| 22:14.11 | Epyon | Good |
| 22:14.14 | blast007 | javawizard2539: hmm, there should be my servers online as well. Did you see any from bzexcess? |
| 22:14.17 | JeffM | javawizard2539, there are hud maerks for many things |
| 22:14.27 | jftsang | javawizard2539, there should be at least four servers |
| 22:14.34 | javawizard2539 | There is only one |
| 22:14.37 | javawizard2539 | Hold on a sec |
| 22:14.40 | JeffM | what is it called? |
| 22:14.45 | JeffM | bets it is his ;) |
| 22:14.51 | JeffM | and his code is old |
| 22:15.00 | javawizard2539 | nirkwood.opencombat.net:5100 |
| 22:15.04 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:15.04 | javawizard2539 | *mirk |
| 22:15.08 | JeffM | how old is your code? |
| 22:15.10 | blast007 | yeah, old revision |
| 22:15.17 | javawizard2539 | Yesterday |
| 22:15.25 | javawizard2539 | I checked it out yesterday |
| 22:15.25 | blast007 | eh |
| 22:15.27 | JeffM | update your code |
| 22:15.35 | jftsang | javawizard2539, I see also two from bzexcess and one from Norang |
| 22:15.39 | JeffM | svn up |
| 22:15.45 | JeffM | jftsang, he's on an older proto |
| 22:15.58 | javawizard2539 | Now that I realize it, I exported it instead of checking it out |
| 22:16.02 | javawizard2539 | I'll check it out this time |
| 22:16.12 | javawizard2539 | Be back in about 5 minutes |
| 22:16.16 | JeffM | yeah check out, then you can just do a svn up |
| 22:16.35 | blast007 | the protocol change was from over a week ago now |
| 22:16.45 | blast007 | 7 days, 5 hours ;) |
| 22:17.09 | JeffM | indeed ;) |
| 22:17.09 | Erroneous | mm, someone broke protocol? |
| 22:17.16 | Erroneous | must have missed it |
| 22:17.18 | blast007 | Erroneous: I fixed Low Gravity |
| 22:17.22 | Erroneous | ahh |
| 22:17.33 | javawizard2539 | Another question |
| 22:17.35 | Erroneous | guess the net stuff is working then |
| 22:17.36 | blast007 | now it's actually gravity :) |
| 22:17.45 | javawizard2539 | JeffM, Is jumping allowed on your server? |
| 22:17.50 | javawizard2539 | Low Gravity didn't work |
| 22:17.51 | JeffM | javawizard2539, nope |
| 22:18.02 | JeffM | my server is not meant for real play |
| 22:18.08 | javawizard2539 | I know |
| 22:18.10 | blast007 | javawizard2539: it is on my random map |
| 22:18.11 | JeffM | it's like just -s |
| 22:18.12 | javawizard2539 | I just wanted to see what LG was like |
| 22:18.16 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 22:18.17 | blast007 | the other map I'm running has issues |
| 22:18.18 | Erroneous | LG should probably not spawn without +j |
| 22:18.26 | blast007 | Erroneous: probably ;) |
| 22:18.33 | JeffM | or LG should include J on non J servers |
| 22:18.37 | javawizard2539 | Once I get the code checked out I'll connect and try it out |
| 22:18.42 | jftsang | hmm, JeffM: I don't see your server |
| 22:18.42 | Erroneous | yup |
| 22:18.48 | JeffM | jftsang, good |
| 22:18.54 | JeffM | jftsang, you should not |
| 22:19.05 | JeffM | cus as we have said, he's on a DIFFERENT PROTOCOLL |
| 22:19.15 | Erroneous | JeffM's server is on 0057, trunk is now 0058 |
| 22:19.23 | Erroneous | so you won't see it |
| 22:19.33 | Erroneous | you only saw it before 'cause you were running old code too |
| 22:20.37 | JeffM | how do I kill a process if I have it's ID in the pidfile? |
| 22:20.50 | blast007 | Erroneous: the -set is still buggy, at least with my VC7.1 build ;) |
| 22:21.14 | blast007 | JeffM: on linux? kill `cat pidfilename` |
| 22:22.50 | Epyon | JeffM, here's a WIP : http://bzflag.chaosforge.org/images/bztank_wip_512.png |
| 22:23.11 | Epyon | I wonder wheter to pack it more tightly |
| 22:23.51 | Epyon | Winny, yes, now it's the full tank xP |
| 22:25.00 | javawizard2539 | hmm |
| 22:25.12 | javawizard2539 | I ran svn list and it isn't working |
| 22:25.19 | javawizard2539 | amboyd@alexlaptop /c/bzflagdev |
| 22:25.20 | javawizard2539 | $ svn list https://svn.bzflag.sf.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag |
| 22:25.22 | javawizard2539 | svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag' |
| 22:25.24 | javawizard2539 | svn: PROPFIND of '/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag': could not connect to server (https://svn.bzflag.sf.net) |
| 22:25.30 | JeffM | Epyon, I'd do more spave to the side covers and less to the middle bits |
| 22:25.38 | Winny | Epyon: :P |
| 22:25.42 | JeffM | basicly more space to stuf that is shown |
| 22:25.59 | javawizard2539 | Anyone have any ideas what's going on? |
| 22:26.23 | JeffM | javawizard2539, I belive you just want to check out not list |
| 22:26.28 | javawizard2539 | I know |
| 22:26.36 | javawizard2539 | I was listing to make sure I had the right path |
| 22:26.41 | javawizard2539 | I'll try co |
| 22:26.44 | JeffM | the server may not support list |
| 22:27.20 | javawizard2539 | same problem |
| 22:27.32 | JeffM | Epyon, it looks like you have given very liittle space to the side covers |
| 22:28.54 | JeffM | javawizard2539, you have the URL wrong |
| 22:29.05 | Epyon | Yeah, I'll be optimizing now :) |
| 22:29.08 | javawizard2539 | What is the correct url? |
| 22:29.12 | JeffM | svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag |
| 22:29.44 | javawizard2539 | That worked |
| 22:29.46 | javawizard2539 | Thanks |
| 22:29.58 | JeffM | sf.net dosn't map for all sourceforge.net sub domains |
| 22:30.57 | blast007 | well, and he has the 'svn' and 'bzflag' reversed anyway |
| 22:31.03 | JeffM | ;) |
| 22:31.12 | JeffM | javawizard2539, where did you get your URL? |
| 22:31.19 | JeffM | I wonder if we have it wrong anywhere |
| 22:31.34 | Epyon | side covers of the tracks or the canopy? |
| 22:31.54 | JeffM | Epyon, all the exterior side stuff |
| 22:31.59 | JeffM | the items in the upper left |
| 22:32.05 | JeffM | you have those small |
| 22:32.15 | JeffM | where all the stuff down the right is HUGE |
| 22:32.20 | JeffM | yet mostly covered by other stuff |
| 22:32.44 | JeffM | the main body can be small |
| 22:33.01 | JeffM | those tread casings and covers are what most people see |
| 22:33.15 | javawizard2539 | Random question, how do you send your message to a specific person? |
| 22:33.18 | JeffM | also did you do the side of the hatch |
| 22:33.22 | JeffM | javawizard2539, here or in game? |
| 22:33.31 | javawizard2539 | Here |
| 22:33.36 | javawizard2539 | Like you just did |
| 22:33.38 | JeffM | /msg theNick message |
| 22:33.55 | JeffM | or do you mean just me saying Epyon : word to your mother |
| 22:34.43 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 22:35.24 | javawizard2539 | Anyway, I typed the URL from memory |
| 22:35.30 | javawizard2539 | So I think it was my error |
| 22:35.30 | JeffM | that'd do it ;) |
| 22:35.40 | javawizard2539 | I have my own project on SF and I constantly do the same thing |
| 22:35.41 | JeffM | we have a wiki page for it if you need it later |
| 22:35.50 | JeffM | http://my.bzflag.org/w/SVN |
| 22:35.50 | javawizard2539 | Ok |
| 22:35.57 | javawizard2539 | It checked out now |
| 22:36.05 | JeffM | now build |
| 22:36.09 | JeffM | and all should be well |
| 22:36.51 | javawizard2539 | It's building |
| 22:42.46 | javawizard2539 | It didn't work |
| 22:42.49 | javawizard2539 | And then I realized why |
| 22:43.08 | javawizard2539 | I was building debug_distribution |
| 22:43.21 | javawizard2539 | Why is glew required for distribution but not for regular? |
| 22:43.56 | blast007 | because we require it when we build installers for release |
| 22:44.10 | blast007 | distribution is what we use for the installers |
| 22:44.42 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16742 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (5 files): |
| 22:44.42 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: unify handling of jump capability. fixes the following situations: |
| 22:44.42 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: LG on non-jumping worlds |
| 22:44.42 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: Server jump freezing of tanks in autopilot mode |
| 22:44.42 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: Autopilot handling of WG on non-jumping worlds |
| 22:44.43 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: Multiple inconsistencies WRT altimeter tape display toggle |
| 22:45.53 | javawizard2539 | So plain debug build bzflag but not the installer? |
| 22:46.20 | Erroneous | LG now enables jumping on worlds without +j :) |
| 22:46.57 | L4m3r | :\ |
| 22:47.10 | L4m3r | kinda crappy with the pre-existing jumping flag |
| 22:47.24 | Epyon | JeffM, jow about this : http://bzflag.chaosforge.org/images/bztank_wip2_512.png |
| 22:47.30 | Winny | Well, it sort of makes sense, if one thinks that tanks can't jump due to a higher gravity |
| 22:47.36 | Erroneous | L4m3r: better than it doing nothing |
| 22:47.45 | L4m3r | it doesn't do "nothing" |
| 22:47.51 | L4m3r | you still fall slower :) |
| 22:48.24 | Erroneous | when are you going to get an opportunity to fall on a non-jumping map (minus teleporters)? |
| 22:48.43 | L4m3r | physics, and of course teles |
| 22:48.47 | Epyon | Erroneous, when you get blown up xP |
| 22:48.49 | javawizard2539 | JeffM, it built and works with 4 additional servers, but yours isn't there anymore |
| 22:48.57 | L4m3r | when do you get to use PZ on a map without teleporters? :P |
| 22:49.09 | Erroneous | PZ won't spawn w/o teleporters |
| 22:49.16 | blast007 | Erroneous: does it enable jumping only if you do +f LG and not +f good? |
| 22:49.29 | L4m3r | maybe LG shouldn't spawn without jumping? |
| 22:49.32 | Erroneous | blast007: it's a client change |
| 22:49.49 | blast007 | oh |
| 22:49.50 | Erroneous | it doesn't know where the flag came from |
| 22:50.24 | Erroneous | L4m3r: how is LG enabling jumping on non-jumping worlds any worse than WG enabling jumping on non-jumping worlds? |
| 22:50.39 | blast007 | I thought you had meant it turned on jumping for everyone |
| 22:50.47 | blast007 | but that makes sense how you did it |
| 22:50.55 | Erroneous | nonono, if you hold LG you can jump |
| 22:51.00 | blast007 | right |
| 22:51.02 | Erroneous | just like if you hold WG you can jump |
| 22:51.03 | L4m3r | good point, Erroneous |
| 22:51.09 | Erroneous | or if you hold J you can jump |
| 22:51.13 | Erroneous | err JP |
| 22:51.40 | L4m3r | perhaps it is an argument for the removal of JP from the game |
| 22:51.40 | Erroneous | or if you hold B you HAVE to jump ;) |
| 22:51.47 | blast007 | hehe |
| 22:52.24 | L4m3r | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:52.46 | Erroneous | that argument could certainly be made |
| 22:53.09 | Erroneous | but given that JP and NJ are inverse flags, and never appear when the other is present, I don't see it as gaining much to remove it |
| 22:53.44 | Epyon | Pic of the moment - A tank with seams :P : http://bzflag.chaosforge.org/images/seamed-tank.png |
| 22:54.06 | Erroneous | likes the new tank model |
| 22:54.32 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 22:55.24 | *** join/#bzflag short_ci1cuit (n=james@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:55.29 | Epyon | It looks definitively better than the old one, even withou textures |
| 22:55.35 | brlcad | likes the new model |
| 22:55.51 | Epyon | Hmm, I may do a texture for it, if JeffM doesn't have objections :) |
| 22:55.54 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=whim@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:56.18 | Erroneous | go for it :) |
| 22:56.31 | Erroneous | it's LGPL like everything else, you can do whatever you want to it |
| 22:57.25 | Erroneous | make sure you keep in mind that the team colors need to be visually distinguishable at a distance |
| 22:57.32 | L4m3r | hm... on the other hand, some of bzfs's idiot proofing can get in the way |
| 22:58.08 | L4m3r | for instance, if you specify -fb but not -j, it will enable jumping for you |
| 22:58.09 | JeffM | Epyon, you may do whatever youw ish ;) |
| 22:58.42 | Erroneous | L4m3r: that does not seem right to me (what with teles and all) especially with worlds using replacement grounds |
| 22:59.00 | Epyon | JeffM, what about the new UV map? Does it look ok now? |
| 22:59.04 | L4m3r | I don't know if anyone has changed it |
| 23:00.22 | L4m3r | but I do remember running into that problem when making a server where tanks would spawn on a small platform, grab a flag, and go onto the ground to fight... we didn't want jumping :P |
| 23:00.22 | L4m3r | had to set jump velocity to zero |
| 23:00.35 | blast007 | ERROR: flags on boxes requires jumping |
| 23:01.29 | L4m3r | of course, using teles without jumping sometimes presents its own problems, because of collision issues with 2.0 stuff |
| 23:01.37 | JeffM | Epyon, URL for new unwrap? |
| 23:01.46 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16743 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/CmdLineOptions.cxx: -fb without -j can be desireable (e.g. meshed ground, teleporter worlds). warn, don't error. |
| 23:01.55 | Erroneous | L4m3r: happier? :) |
| 23:01.57 | JeffM | javawizard2539, I shut mine down |
| 23:01.59 | L4m3r | :) |
| 23:02.00 | JeffM | it's rebuilding |
| 23:02.26 | JeffM | well it was |
| 23:02.27 | Erroneous | that error dates from before A) spawnzones B) plugin spawns and C) meshes |
| 23:02.28 | Epyon | JeffMs : http://bzflag.chaosforge.org/images/bztank_wip2_512.png |
| 23:02.31 | JeffM | untill I had to redo autogen |
| 23:02.36 | Erroneous | so it is kind of ridiculous in this day and age |
| 23:02.47 | L4m3r | oh, and another thought |
| 23:02.51 | JeffM | Epyon, the side covers are very small |
| 23:02.52 | JeffM | upper left |
| 23:03.09 | L4m3r | the flag options are rather cryptic |
| 23:03.13 | L4m3r | so I may be mistaken |
| 23:03.30 | Epyon | JeffM, those are the insides :P |
| 23:03.43 | L4m3r | but as far as I can tell, the only way to have flags that are "in the ether" is to use +s |
| 23:04.13 | Epyon | The side covers of the track are vertically on the left |
| 23:04.20 | L4m3r | I think it might be nice to have a server option to add a queue of a specified length for flags |
| 23:04.21 | Erroneous | yes; the flags array gets inited to the total of +f and +s |
| 23:04.37 | Epyon | But yeah, I'll make them even larger |
| 23:04.59 | L4m3r | so when flags are added only by +f, some can still be suspended to help deal with flag tracking |
| 23:05.21 | Erroneous | flag tracking? |
| 23:05.34 | blast007 | Erroneous: players watching flags the have been dropped respawn |
| 23:05.49 | Erroneous | ah, scrambling the ids |
| 23:06.01 | L4m3r | not really scrambling |
| 23:06.08 | L4m3r | just have a flag or two waiting to respawn |
| 23:06.11 | Erroneous | shuffling the deck, then :P |
| 23:06.24 | L4m3r | so when another disappears, it bumps one in the queue out onto the field |
| 23:06.45 | L4m3r | a player can watch the flag respawn, but they will be disappointed to find that it's not the same flag :) |
| 23:06.50 | Erroneous | heh |
| 23:07.06 | Erroneous | so you're looking to combat the "card counters" rather than the tracking cheat clients |
| 23:07.19 | Erroneous | interesting thought |
| 23:07.24 | L4m3r | yeah, shuffling the deck could help with progressive ID as well :P |
| 23:07.35 | Erroneous | yeah, that's what I was thinking |
| 23:07.40 | L4m3r | has anyone made a client that does that yet? |
| 23:07.44 | Erroneous | oh yeah |
| 23:08.13 | L4m3r | wow |
| 23:08.29 | Erroneous | it's not hard, our ids are static (without +/-s) |
| 23:09.11 | JeffM | Epyon, ahh, cary on then :) |
| 23:09.34 | L4m3r | yes, but it's not quite trivial either, unlike the more rudimentary colored flags |
| 23:09.40 | Erroneous | L4m3r: http://my.bzflag.org/wiki/images/6/67/Bzfi0001.png for instance |
| 23:09.44 | JeffM | Epyon, can I get that as an obj please? |
| 23:10.23 | JeffM | grumbles about having to run autogen again |
| 23:11.15 | L4m3r | I wonder if we even need flag IDs |
| 23:11.31 | Erroneous | not really |
| 23:11.40 | Erroneous | we could just say "the flag at this position" |
| 23:11.42 | JeffM | L4m3r, we only need entitiy IDs so we can refrence them with update messages |
| 23:11.47 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 23:11.59 | Erroneous | ids make it easier |
| 23:12.00 | JeffM | Erroneous, not a good thing, that could be ambiguous |
| 23:12.03 | JeffM | yes |
| 23:12.08 | L4m3r | hm... |
| 23:12.14 | JeffM | they just don't have to be tied to flags ;) |
| 23:12.20 | L4m3r | so yeah, nothing stopping us from using a random integer |
| 23:12.20 | JeffM | mobID ;) |
| 23:12.26 | JeffM | L4m3r, nope |
| 23:12.36 | Erroneous | right, we could just use a map on the server |
| 23:12.38 | L4m3r | the client could just hoard them in a std::map or something |
| 23:12.46 | L4m3r | ooooooh! |
| 23:12.57 | L4m3r | that'd allow for on-the-fly flag generation! |
| 23:13.10 | JeffM | allow for on the fly anything generation ;) |
| 23:13.22 | JeffM | send over a model name for a mob type |
| 23:13.26 | L4m3r | they'd not have to be static... the server could add or remove flags without restarting :D |
| 23:13.34 | JeffM | then for flags send over them as flag type mobs |
| 23:13.51 | JeffM | then you can do balls |
| 23:14.00 | JeffM | and chickens |
| 23:14.12 | L4m3r | "Who ran over a duck?" |
| 23:14.17 | JeffM | exactly |
| 23:14.20 | JeffM | makes it very generic |
| 23:14.30 | L4m3r | interesting |
| 23:14.51 | L4m3r | we could generalize shots and tanks too, at that rate |
| 23:14.52 | JeffM | you could make flags that arn't pickups that just get thrown into places, like to mark who controlls a base in domination ;) |
| 23:14.58 | JeffM | yeah we could |
| 23:15.13 | JeffM | it's all just stuff that moves in the world and has a prediction type |
| 23:15.16 | L4m3r | it could actually make things really simple... |
| 23:15.23 | JeffM | stupid clients are good clients |
| 23:15.32 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 23:15.43 | L4m3r | it'd probably make custom tank models easier too |
| 23:15.48 | JeffM | not really |
| 23:15.48 | L4m3r | (for individual clients) |
| 23:16.04 | JeffM | but yeah it'd be a similar mechanism |
| 23:16.30 | L4m3r | the server just says "this thing has this ID and is here, and has this model" |
| 23:16.32 | JeffM | you'd have defined mob classes that had info such as model name and prediction mechanism |
| 23:16.45 | L4m3r | not necessarily |
| 23:16.46 | JeffM | well I'd tie the model names to class IDs |
| 23:16.56 | JeffM | you dont' want to send the model each time for a shot |
| 23:17.00 | JeffM | even the name |
| 23:17.06 | JeffM | you'd cache those out to IDs |
| 23:17.07 | L4m3r | use an ID |
| 23:17.09 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:17.20 | JeffM | you'd do that with negotition messags |
| 23:17.30 | JeffM | where the server says "this classID uses this model name" |
| 23:17.36 | JeffM | send that at the start |
| 23:17.47 | L4m3r | that'd do nicely to separate the graphics from the game logic too |
| 23:17.50 | JeffM | then for each mob you send it's class ID, and GUID |
| 23:17.57 | L4m3r | the client would not just be dumb... it'd be downright retarded :) |
| 23:18.04 | JeffM | thats the point |
| 23:18.10 | JeffM | you want it to be a dumb viewer |
| 23:33.28 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r16744 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/CmdLineOptions.cxx: cout, not out |
| 23:33.52 | javawizard2539 | If whoever runs the bzflag3.norang.ca:10000 server is on here, I think I crashed it |
| 23:34.02 | javawizard2539 | the 2.99 server |
| 23:34.07 | blast007 | heh |
| 23:34.09 | blast007 | easy to do |
| 23:34.12 | Thumper_ | yup you did. I got stack dump email from it |
| 23:34.18 | Erroneous | pft, one lil' character blast007 :P |
| 23:34.25 | blast007 | Erroneous ;) |
| 23:34.31 | javawizard2539 | I connected with -solo and that caused the problem |
| 23:34.39 | blast007 | -solo is broken |
| 23:34.46 | javawizard2539 | Ok |
| 23:34.50 | Thumper_ | joining with bots will do that |
| 23:34.53 | javawizard2539 | I won't use it |
| 23:35.04 | Thumper_ | that's the only case I know of though... |
| 23:35.30 | CIA-16 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16745 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx: it's a function not a member pointer. always nice when it builds y'know. |
| 23:35.54 | Erroneous | -solo crashes the server? |
| 23:36.02 | Thumper_ | here's the stack dump http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m26e5e364 |
| 23:36.22 | Thumper_ | Erroneous: yup. |
| 23:36.54 | javawizard2539 | Sorry for crashing it |
| 23:36.57 | javawizard2539 | I didn't know it was broken |
| 23:36.58 | Thumper_ | don't be |
| 23:37.05 | Winny | I've done it too :p |
| 23:37.07 | Thumper_ | the title says "Please Crash Me" :) |
| 23:37.24 | javawizard2539 | Ok |
| 23:37.36 | javawizard2539 | Should I try connecting with -solo again then? :) |
| 23:37.37 | Thumper_ | it crashes, generates a stack dump, emails it to me, waits 20 seconds and restarts |
| 23:37.47 | Thumper_ | no crash it some new way :) |
| 23:38.04 | javawizard2539 | Ok |
| 23:38.08 | javawizard2539 | I did something before that crashed it |
| 23:38.16 | *** part/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-254-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:38.16 | javawizard2539 | About 30 minutes ago or so |
| 23:38.25 | Thumper_ | it crashed twice today - both by you for -solo bots |
| 23:38.34 | javawizard2539 | I drove around for a while, and then dropped a flag while sitting on another flag and it crashed |
| 23:38.41 | javawizard2539 | This was before that |
| 23:38.55 | Thumper_ | that didn't crash the server - maybe have dropped your connection to it |
| 23:39.04 | Thumper_ | the server kicks for lag for no good reason |
| 23:39.50 | javawizard2539 | Ok |
| 23:40.26 | javawizard2539 | Does anyone know which file the "Start server" menu is in? |
| 23:41.53 | Erroneous | SeverStartMenu.cxx |
| 23:41.57 | Erroneous | server even |
| 23:42.23 | javawizard2539 | Which project? |
| 23:42.32 | Thumper_ | bzflag/src/bzflag/ServerStartMenu.cxx: addControl(createLabel("Start Server"), |
| 23:42.35 | blast007 | 'bzflag' |
| 23:42.42 | blast007 | probably under a subfolder named Menus |
| 23:43.19 | javawizard2539 | Found it |
| 23:43.27 | javawizard2539 | I overlooked the Menus folder |
| 23:45.19 | Erroneous | Thumper_: hm, I don't think a crash there should be possible :) |
| 23:45.34 | Erroneous | sure your symbols are right? |
| 23:45.39 | Epyon | There is something extremely wrong with the muzzle -_- |
| 23:45.39 | Thumper_ | Erroneous: okay. It's been doing it pretty regularly |
| 23:45.40 | JeffM | yay for art proofs from the printer |
| 23:45.56 | Thumper_ | Erroneous: it's a daily debug build... so I think so |
| 23:45.58 | Erroneous | if it really crashed there, it's a bug in the c++ library |
| 23:46.03 | Erroneous | and I don't like that idea |
| 23:46.05 | JeffM | Erroneous, come here and verify with me :) |
| 23:46.44 | Thumper_ | it crashes everytime someone joins with -solo |
| 23:49.34 | Thumper_ | builds a local server to crash |
| 23:49.42 | Epyon | Epyon -- the barrel/muzzel was completely FUBARd |
| 23:49.43 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 23:49.53 | Epyon | err- |
| 23:49.56 | Epyon | JeffM :) |
| 23:50.17 | Thumper_ | Epyon: that's okay. We all end up talking to ourselves eventually |
| 23:50.27 | Epyon | Thumper_ :D |
| 23:50.38 | JeffM | Epyon, like I say it was an old export before I fixed a lot of that stuff |
| 23:51.00 | Epyon | I'm fixing it as we speak |
| 23:51.02 | JeffM | is saddened that he has to send back the art proof for changes. |
| 23:52.12 | *** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 23:52.52 | javawizard2539 | What's the difference between build and rebuild in MSVC? |
| 23:53.10 | JeffM | build just compiles what has changed |
| 23:53.21 | JeffM | rebuild builds everything again |
| 23:53.27 | KTL | can take ages |
| 23:53.53 | Thumper_ | ccache helps alot on linux |
| 23:54.15 | JeffM | VC basicly always uses ccache |
| 23:54.23 | JeffM | to some extent |
| 23:54.31 | JeffM | rebuild is like make clean |
| 23:54.35 | Erroneous | VC does the same thing GCC does, incremental builds |
| 23:54.41 | JeffM | well make clean;make |
| 23:54.49 | JeffM | what does ccache do different? |
| 23:55.08 | Erroneous | ccache is an additional layer that caches out post-preprocessed code |
| 23:55.17 | JeffM | like PCH stuff? |
| 23:55.19 | Erroneous | IB does the same thing for us |
| 23:55.23 | JeffM | ahh |
| 23:55.33 | JeffM | cus PCH is vile ;) |
| 23:55.33 | blast007 | "a hash to detect when a compilation can be satisfied from cache" |
| 23:55.47 | nn-main | Hi my server has had this error of not starting bzfs after a kill for no reason. Finally I traced back the failing call's. Now maby some one can help me fix this error. The failing calls: in bzfs.cxx function startServer() :::: if (bind(wksSocket, (const struct sockaddr*)&addr, sizeof(addr)) == -1) { if (!clOptions->useFallbackPort) { close(wksSocket); return false; }} |
| 23:55.55 | javawizard2539 | ok |
| 23:56.05 | javawizard2539 | I thought it was the other way around, a lot of wasted time |
| 23:56.10 | JeffM | nn-main, you could not bind to the port |
| 23:56.13 | nn-main | any ideas why my computer is causing that bind to fail |
| 23:56.24 | Erroneous | perhaps you have another bzfs running |
| 23:56.30 | nn-main | well there is nothing running on that port |
| 23:56.37 | JeffM | nn-main, or you are out of file descriptors |
| 23:57.16 | nn-main | JeffM, What is a file discriptor; |
| 23:57.20 | Winny | google it |
| 23:57.34 | JeffM | something every network admin should know about |
| 23:57.38 | Winny | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_descriptor |
| 23:57.41 | JeffM | everything on nix is a file |
| 23:57.45 | JeffM | even sockets |
| 23:57.59 | JeffM | you only get so many open file descriptors |
| 23:58.07 | JeffM | prevents runaway processes and stuff |
| 23:58.10 | JeffM | IIRC |
| 23:58.53 | JeffM | aww.. I can't show saturos the art proofs :( |
| 23:59.02 | Winny | JeffM: why not? |
| 23:59.09 | JeffM | he's not online |
| 23:59.14 | JeffM | that I can see |
| 23:59.15 | Winny | Can you show us? :) |
| 23:59.18 | jude- | it's basically a WORD-sized handle the kernel uses for keeping track of stream buffers, etc. |
| 23:59.23 | JeffM | Winny, pdf |
| 23:59.38 | JeffM | and not final, I had to send them back |
| 23:59.42 | nn-main | JeffM, then how do i free some un used file discriptors that were not closed during the killing of bzfs |
| 23:59.44 | JeffM | 2 inches was too small |
| 23:59.48 | JeffM | nn-main, you learn how to use linux |
| 23:59.59 | Winny | JeffM: 2 inches on the main logo? |
