| 00:00.31 | brlcad | should be an easy scoped carrot with the right proposal methinks |
| 00:00.54 | brlcad | something most players would highly appreciate |
| 00:01.19 | Constitution | I can't bring it up... nor the bzbb, either |
| 00:02.14 | brlcad | hmm.. apache is gawking |
| 00:04.02 | brlcad | oops, my bad .. try again |
| 00:04.21 | brlcad | kinda killed the private localhost data root a few min ago .. it wasn't happy about that |
| 00:06.35 | Constitution | maybe it should link to some of the known cheats wiki pages? |
| 00:06.58 | brlcad | sure, good idea |
| 00:13.35 | Winny | one thing that I was thinking of, but is kind of an odd idea |
| 00:14.16 | Winny | is for a /driveFor <player> option, so you can drive "for" them and see if they have any weird mods. Although lag would effect it, you could look a bit more closely then if you just followed in obs. |
| 00:14.50 | Constitution | you can't trust the client |
| 00:15.19 | Winny | No, I'm saying you can drive *for* them, to see if they have any odd mods going on |
| 00:15.34 | Winny | maybe something that isn't so obvious while simply following/driving with them |
| 00:16.19 | Constitution | they'll just mod their client to behave normally when accessed by remote |
| 00:16.32 | Constitution | although with the lag and all, it's doubtful that that would work well anyway |
| 00:16.43 | Winny | hmm |
| 00:21.45 | JeffM | Winny, not enough info is sent to do that |
| 00:21.52 | JeffM | and you can observer them now |
| 00:21.56 | JeffM | it'd be the exact same thing |
| 00:22.04 | Winny | not really |
| 00:22.12 | JeffM | how would it be difrent? |
| 00:22.17 | JeffM | we don't get the exact input |
| 00:22.20 | JeffM | we get tank updates |
| 00:22.33 | JeffM | there is no way to know what code they are executing |
| 00:22.37 | JeffM | just the tank updates |
| 00:22.43 | Winny | I;ve seen certain people on my server only use certain cheats when an admin isn't around |
| 00:22.47 | brlcad | Constitution: were you going to edit the page for that? |
| 00:22.56 | Winny | IE: auto GM lockon |
| 00:23.02 | JeffM | Winny, so do a recording |
| 00:23.06 | JeffM | it'll do the same thing |
| 00:23.22 | Constitution | brlcad: I did |
| 00:23.31 | brlcad | ooh, in-game video recording.. |
| 00:23.33 | brlcad | ahh, awesome |
| 00:23.37 | brlcad | ~Constitution++ |
| 00:24.01 | brlcad | make trepan's server-side stuff actually easier to use would be useful :) |
| 00:24.25 | Thumper_ | it's hard to use? |
| 00:24.27 | brlcad | but just the ability to record while playing would be useful |
| 00:24.51 | JeffM | screenshots are now in a thread |
| 00:25.00 | brlcad | I wouldn't say it's exactly easy or that it took off like whildfire |
| 00:25.04 | JeffM | I can't see that it would be hard to have it compress a movie instead of a png |
| 00:26.26 | brlcad | yeah, it'd need some horsepower but most games have that at least for low framerate low quality movies |
| 00:26.44 | JeffM | tie it into the frame rate limiter |
| 00:26.48 | JeffM | and it'd be workable |
| 00:26.52 | JeffM | or just use fraps |
| 00:26.57 | JeffM | cus that works and is free |
| 00:28.40 | Erroneous | just grabbing the pixels takes a little while (about 85ms last I measured) and that must be done in the main thread |
| 00:29.25 | brlcad | ah, diff nick |
| 00:29.40 | JeffM | so like 11 fps |
| 00:30.02 | JeffM | once we have an engine we can do it faster with render to texture |
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| 00:30.27 | brlcad | or said student could work on making our own render to texture ;) |
| 00:30.31 | brlcad | in the meantime |
| 00:30.50 | Erroneous | yeah, definitely. just saying that glreadpixels is still a serious limitation to rapid screenshotting |
| 00:31.08 | JeffM | brlcad, that's not a 3 month job |
| 00:31.33 | JeffM | movie support is like a one week job |
| 00:32.02 | JeffM | trepan set us up to render more then once, with mirror ground |
| 00:32.47 | JeffM | if our goal is also to move to an engine, then it would be code that is wasted as well |
| 00:32.51 | brlcad | could be much longer with integrating a decent encoding codec, setting up the menu options, managing files and preventing users from filling up their disks, having in-game replay of those movies, etc |
| 00:33.05 | JeffM | maybe |
| 00:33.18 | JeffM | persnaly it would be very low on my list of desired things |
| 00:33.24 | JeffM | since there are 3rd party apps to do that |
| 00:33.37 | JeffM | WoW movies anyone? ;) |
| 00:33.58 | KTL | starcraft replays are a description of what happens, that's more something for bzflag, a lot less data then screenshots and way more usefull |
| 00:35.04 | blast007 | fraps works very well for recording |
| 00:35.25 | JeffM | and if you want open source |
| 00:35.26 | JeffM | http://taksi.sourceforge.net/ |
| 00:35.28 | JeffM | fraps clone |
| 00:35.43 | JeffM | better to send the student to them and benifit more people ;) |
| 00:36.47 | blast007 | aww, doesn't do audio |
| 00:37.14 | JeffM | get them to apply ;) |
| 00:37.23 | JeffM | then have a student hook tha tup |
| 00:39.39 | brlcad | huh, shouldn't have conflicted .. each cell is on it's own line . |
| 00:40.12 | think_tank | I updated the cheats wiki. Can we merge the Subtle Cheats page as a section under the List of Known Cheats page? |
| 00:40.58 | Winny | eh, would this be considered cheating? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=121830#121830 |
| 00:41.29 | JeffM | what a big mousebox? |
| 00:41.35 | brlcad | think_tank: you could merge, but would keep some note that they are considered "subtle" |
| 00:41.49 | Winny | JeffM: it says he modded it so it's bigger then allowed |
| 00:42.12 | JeffM | do you think it gives him some form of unfair advantage over people that can sway a game? |
| 00:42.17 | brlcad | subtle ones are the ones hard/impossible to differentiate from bugs and networking glitches or are entirely client-side enhancements |
| 00:42.30 | think_tank | brlcad: there's already a subsection under Known Cheats page entitled "Subtle Cheats". I would just merge the Subtle Cheats page into that section, essentially verbatim |
| 00:42.33 | Winny | if he uses ME, then, yes |
| 00:42.47 | JeffM | you can do me with out moding the client :) |
| 00:42.48 | brlcad | think_tank: then go for it! |
| 00:43.00 | JeffM | all a larger box does is give you more granularity |
| 00:43.02 | Erroneous | Winny: he's saying he got a configuration file from someone. the only limit we have is in the options menu |
| 00:43.11 | JeffM | I dobut it actualy affects the gameplay |
| 00:43.21 | Erroneous | dunno why he thinks config files involve programming, but whatever |
| 00:43.29 | Winny | you should do the same for the radar :) |
| 00:47.12 | Winny | perhaps replace the cracked windshield with the rickroll video? |
| 00:47.36 | JeffM | dude, you need to like seek professional help about your rick obsession |
| 00:47.47 | Erroneous | heh |
| 00:48.00 | JeffM | why did it get in there in the first place? |
| 00:48.08 | Winny | meh, we've moved onto the Miami Vice theme |
| 00:48.09 | JeffM | oooo I know a SoC project |
| 00:48.27 | JeffM | replace the radar with one that is more accurate to real radar |
| 00:48.31 | Erroneous | lemme get this straight...you're intentionally subjecting yourself to bad '80's music? |
| 00:48.39 | JeffM | that does like a radial surface scan |
| 00:49.03 | Erroneous | JeffM: that'd be a great project to "teach" someone about community relations ;) |
| 00:49.03 | Winny | Does that mean it only updates once the radar "beam" reaches it on it's spin? |
| 00:49.28 | Constitution | the players would love that developer ;) |
| 00:49.32 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:49.37 | JeffM | Winny, that and the beam stops when it hits a surface |
| 00:49.42 | Winny | oi |
| 00:49.42 | Erroneous | Constitution: my point exactly :) |
| 00:50.27 | Winny | I'd be for that kind of radar... if it were a map option |
| 00:50.47 | Winny | It would totally kill the leagues |
| 00:50.50 | JeffM | I'd like to also see a generic stats system that does push stats, maybe a combo web app/site and lib that games link to to report them |
| 00:51.02 | JeffM | something that isn't specific to BZFlag that could be used for any open source game |
| 00:52.09 | Constitution | karma! |
| 00:52.12 | JeffM | heh |
| 00:52.18 | JeffM | just hook up ibot into bzfs |
| 00:52.22 | JeffM | DONE! |
| 00:52.30 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:53.21 | Constitution | improved stats would be nice though... many commercial games have detailed stats, with kills/deaths along with other phenomenons specific to that game, with promotions and ranks, etc. |
| 00:53.23 | Winny | CBG wouldn't be allowed on too many servers then ;) |
| 00:53.30 | JeffM | Constitution, exactly |
| 00:53.44 | JeffM | it'd be nice if there was an open source solutoon that any game could use to do that kinda stuff |
| 00:53.56 | JeffM | cus I'm sure many of the mechanisms and rules are very similar |
| 00:54.36 | Constitution | maybe make ranks on the BZBB actually mean something ;) |
| 00:54.45 | JeffM | oh god no |
| 00:54.47 | Erroneous | hah |
| 00:54.49 | JeffM | they used to |
| 00:54.53 | Erroneous | that'd be funny |
| 00:54.55 | JeffM | it was HORIBLE |
| 00:54.59 | Winny | Constitution: no |
| 00:55.03 | Winny | I like my grumpy rank |
| 00:55.04 | Erroneous | tie it to the player's ELO score |
| 00:55.09 | JeffM | heh |
| 00:55.25 | Erroneous | 'cause everyone likes the electric light orchestra |
| 00:56.02 | JeffM | I just think it'd be cool to have a project that could also benifit more then just bzflag |
| 00:56.23 | Winny | the get-people-off-irc and into real life initaitive? |
| 00:56.47 | JeffM | I"m in real life right now, I don't know where you are. |
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| 00:56.58 | JeffM | typing wiki articles |
| 00:57.28 | JeffM | so the phantom zone? |
| 00:57.42 | Winny | sure |
| 00:58.17 | JeffM | cool go spellcheck the post debugger article |
| 01:18.48 | donny_baker | JeffM: might I suggest Firefox.... it saves me all the time on spelling on the wiki ;) |
| 01:19.01 | donny_baker | spellchecker is built in |
| 01:21.43 | JeffM | it was a joke |
| 01:21.46 | JeffM | I use ff |
| 01:21.51 | JeffM | but it's not always right |
| 01:22.46 | L4m3r | Konq's spellcheck is kind of unreliable too... missing a lot of words :P |
| 01:23.05 | Winny | holy dear crap... 50 cm of snow in the next 3 days |
| 01:23.15 | Winny | that'll get us up to... 2 meters? |
| 01:23.33 | L4m3r | make a tank out of snow, and take pictures. |
| 01:23.44 | L4m3r | bonus points if it's running over a snowman, or a car |
| 01:23.50 | Winny | dude I have better things to do |
| 01:23.58 | L4m3r | riiight ;) |
| 01:24.07 | Winny | hey, I have to work on the drupal template :P |
| 01:24.23 | L4m3r | or read some Calvin and Hobbes for inspiration |
| 01:27.25 | donny_baker | so are we having the same group of mentors for gsoc this year? |
| 01:27.47 | JeffM | the blog has the current list |
| 01:27.49 | JeffM | want to be one? |
| 01:28.07 | Winny | yay spldart |
| 01:29.13 | donny_baker | i would consider it.. not doing anything special this summer |
| 01:29.47 | JeffM | it woudln't be hard, mostly just helping out |
| 01:29.53 | Winny | What does a mentor do? I'm not exactly clear |
| 01:30.08 | Winny | Do they review the students code? |
| 01:30.17 | JeffM | we have a number of people who we can asign projects too |
| 01:30.21 | JeffM | but we need a nubmer to help |
| 01:30.26 | JeffM | Winny, mostly they just help out |
| 01:30.29 | JeffM | review |
| 01:30.30 | JeffM | try |
| 01:30.32 | JeffM | answer |
| 01:30.33 | JeffM | point |
| 01:30.35 | JeffM | comment |
| 01:30.37 | JeffM | lick |
| 01:30.51 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:34.50 | JeffM | at the basic level there is one mentor asigned per student |
| 01:34.57 | JeffM | that mentor is responsible for the evals |
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| 01:37.03 | JeffM | but like last year, I didn't have a student asigned to me, but I went and looked at 2 of the 4 projects and commented on them |
| 01:37.12 | JeffM | as well as answered whatever questions anyone had |
| 01:37.18 | JeffM | that's the kind of mentor we are looking at now |
| 01:37.52 | JeffM | people who have been in the comunity long enough, and know enough about the development process to provide some level of support or feedback to the students |
| 01:38.46 | JeffM | we want to have more mentors then students cus that makes it easier for everyone |
| 01:39.33 | brlcad | i'd actually like to not have a student assigned to me this year so I can help coordinate between mentors and students better, but depends on submissions and how many mentors we have |
| 01:46.47 | JeffM | brlcad, that sounds fair |
| 01:46.55 | JeffM | I'll take one this year |
| 01:48.38 | Winny | it sounds like you're planning a hostible takeover |
| 01:48.57 | JeffM | he'll be the admin |
| 01:49.11 | JeffM | there is probalby a backup admin |
| 01:49.16 | JeffM | tho dunno who that will be |
| 01:49.22 | Winny | Slynderdale: thanks for the offer, but I already have a cup here :) |
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| 01:53.26 | brlcad | backup should still be another core dev, you or dtr being the best choices |
| 01:55.02 | Erroneous | either way is fine with me |
| 01:55.44 | JeffM | yeah ther is fine by me too |
| 01:56.13 | JeffM | ooo maybe brlcad can play the grumpy old man this year |
| 01:56.25 | brlcad | shut up and code |
| 01:56.34 | brlcad | oh wait .. grumpy |
| 01:56.37 | JeffM | see. you are a natural |
| 01:56.42 | brlcad | your code sucks, make it better |
| 01:57.03 | Winny | "buy me beer and you get your money"? |
| 01:58.35 | brlcad | i'm gonna start my own bzflag .. with blackjack and hookers |
| 01:58.39 | brlcad | in fact, forget bzflag |
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| 02:09.06 | Winny | what 'cha gonna go with all that junk? |
| 02:09.27 | AHA | all that junk inside your trunk? |
| 02:14.33 | brlcad | gahhhhhh |
| 02:14.44 | brlcad | damnits damnits |
| 02:14.59 | brlcad | "In support of improved security, all SourceForge.net user passwords have been expired and must be changed upon next login. CVS, Subversion and Shell users will need to login to the site to change their password before they will be able to access these services." |
| 02:15.14 | AHA | When compiling BZ, i get this error: "LINK : fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'dinput.lib'", what is wrong/how do i fix it? |
| 02:16.24 | Winny | AHA, you need the direct X SDK |
| 02:16.31 | AHA | I have it |
| 02:16.38 | Winny | well obviously not correctly :) |
| 02:16.51 | Winny | what version of VC? |
| 02:17.00 | AHA | 2005 Express |
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| 02:29.47 | Erroneous | AHA: you need the DX SDK from April 2007 or earlier |
| 02:30.11 | AHA | yeah, i am downloading an earlier version |
| 02:30.32 | Winny | Erroneous, what changes in the new versions? |
| 02:30.42 | Winny | or is the version limitation only for old versions of VC? |
| 02:31.24 | Erroneous | Winny: dinput changed to dinput8 |
| 02:31.34 | JeffM_ | the SDK changed, not VC |
| 02:31.57 | JeffM_ | the readme has the correct version with a link |
| 02:32.31 | Winny | ahh |
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| 02:57.39 | andresj | hello, anybody know how can I change the map size using bzwtools? |
| 02:59.58 | JeffM__ | probably a property of the world object |
| 03:02.35 | andresj | nope. |
| 03:02.45 | blast007 | bzwtools? that's that? |
| 03:03.01 | blast007 | oh, the blender thing |
| 03:03.06 | andresj | yes, blender. |
| 03:03.17 | blast007 | never got that to work :) |
| 03:03.42 | KTL | i just played a bit with the first person shooter warsow |
| 03:03.47 | KTL | everything is cell shaded |
| 03:03.47 | andresj | :) |
| 03:03.50 | KTL | it looks so nice |
| 03:04.46 | KTL | i suppose it's out of reach of bzflag as long as game code doesn't get separated from graphics |
| 03:04.55 | andresj | the world's only property is flagHeight |
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| 03:09.31 | andresj | did I miss anything? |
| 03:11.07 | JeffM__ | you can just edit it in manualy |
| 03:11.55 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16724 10/trunk/web/submitimages/config.php.example: gnu has changed things around with the move to v3 so the page isn't static. instead point to the opensource.org page which is static and consistent with the bsd option and consistent with our v2 terms. |
| 03:12.34 | andresj | JeffM__, but I'd have to edit it every time I edit my map... |
| 03:13.32 | JeffM__ | it's python you can add it in :) |
| 03:14.42 | andresj | JeffM__, if I want every one of my maps to be like that... |
| 03:15.02 | JeffM__ | hence why I say add it to the tools |
| 03:15.06 | blast007 | edit the editor |
| 03:15.18 | andresj | oh...! :D |
| 03:15.25 | andresj | got the idea. :) |
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| 04:02.46 | tbtot | can anyone tell me how to make a universal mac binary? |
| 04:03.33 | blast007 | 1) You should be using a real client if you want long instructions like that and 2) Why are you wanting to do that? |
| 04:04.15 | tbtot | i made an intel build, but i have another ppc computer |
| 04:04.38 | blast007 | I thnk the 2.0.10 build is universal |
| 04:04.40 | L4m3r | iirc there is one posted for 2.0.10 |
| 04:04.41 | blast007 | think* |
| 04:04.58 | Winny | it id |
| 04:04.59 | Winny | is |
| 04:05.14 | tbtot | where can i fing instructions on compiling BZFlag-2.0.10? |
| 04:05.29 | blast007 | tbtot: in the source archive... |
| 04:05.34 | blast007 | there are README files |
| 04:05.49 | blast007 | but there should be no need to build if you just want 2.0.10 |
| 04:06.04 | tbtot | Are the readme files MacOSX specific? |
| 04:06.04 | L4m3r | there are binaries posted... you really don't need to go to the trouble of rolling your own for windoze or macos |
| 04:06.04 | blast007 | the official build will work on your PPC |
| 04:07.00 | tbtot | the instructions in the source for BZFlag-2.0.8 didn't work, but i followed the instructions in the BZBB to compile BZFlag correctly |
| 04:07.07 | blast007 | http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/bzflag/BZFlag-2.0.10.dmg |
| 04:07.08 | Winny | http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3248&package_id=53923 |
| 04:07.11 | Winny | bah |
| 04:07.13 | Winny | blast007 |
| 04:07.16 | blast007 | ;) |
| 04:07.27 | blast007 | tbtot: just use the binary |
| 04:08.30 | tbtot | what is the latest version of BZFlag |
| 04:08.36 | blast007 | 2.0.10 |
| 04:08.39 | tbtot | the latest stable version |
| 04:08.53 | Winny | 2.0.10 |
| 04:08.55 | tbtot | someone said it was 2.0.11 |
| 04:08.59 | Winny | nope |
| 04:09.00 | blast007 | that's not a release |
| 04:09.06 | blast007 | that's a development version |
| 04:09.30 | blast007 | which would be released as 2.0.12 (but we're done *crosses finger* with 2.0.x) |
| 04:09.41 | blast007 | bye |
| 04:09.43 | Winny | heh |
| 04:10.03 | Winny | blast007: technically done with 2.x ;) |
| 04:10.31 | blast007 | Winny: it's v2_0branch, not v2branch |
| 04:10.36 | blast007 | ;) |
| 04:10.51 | Winny | there isn't going to be a 2.2 release, though :) |
| 04:11.22 | Winny | :P |
| 04:13.27 | blast007 | Winny: ping |
| 04:13.30 | blast007 | ;) |
| 04:13.33 | Winny | grr |
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| 06:22.47 | JeffM | so and then I got shot :/ |
| 06:28.20 | delusional | did it hurt? |
| 06:28.32 | JeffM | yes but I shruged it off |
| 06:28.43 | delusional | duckwater |
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| 06:44.18 | JeffM | hey brlcad got any pictures of the back end of one of those M1 A1s? |
| 06:45.30 | blast007 | JeffM: does this help? http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1a1-line.gif |
| 06:45.40 | JeffM | yeah somewhat |
| 06:45.48 | JeffM | I guess it's just a big radiaor or something |
| 06:45.55 | JeffM | I don't see exausts like we have |
| 06:45.59 | blast007 | http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm <-- might be more here |
| 06:46.17 | JeffM | I'll try to see how it looks if I just replace them with a bevel that we can texture |
| 06:49.06 | brlcad | heh, exhaust would be an interesting vulnerability |
| 06:49.34 | JeffM | well can you think of what else those 2 boxes on the butt end are? |
| 06:53.47 | JeffM | http://www.opencombat.net/files/geometry/tankv5.dxf |
| 06:54.51 | JeffM | I can texture on a grill or mesh on the back buldge |
| 06:59.22 | brlcad | heh, http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/070718-f-5622m-904.jpg |
| 07:02.56 | brlcad | ah, here's a good pic showing a more modern fully uparmored variant including the new slat armor and reactive armor kits |
| 07:02.59 | brlcad | http://www4.army.mil/OCPA/uploads/large/OCPA-2005-03-10-092226.jpg |
| 07:03.41 | brlcad | not relevant for the modeling, but interesting nonetheless |
| 07:04.33 | brlcad | oh wow, awesome shot: http://www.arcent.army.mil/cflcc_today/2005/february/images/feb01_03/tank2.jpg |
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| 08:13.53 | brlcad | hm, http://bzflag.bz/tmp/alignment.png |
| 08:14.07 | brlcad | apparently, the original alignment he used was spot-on |
| 08:23.23 | think_tank | known cheats wiki has been merged with subtle cheats wiki and updated. feedback/additional contributions welcomed |
| 08:33.04 | L4m3r | "Instantly spawn without regard to spawn delay" has been fixed ;) |
| 08:35.39 | L4m3r | is "RadarPath" considered a cheat? you can add long lines by modifying the bzflag conf file |
| 08:36.25 | think_tank | "NOTE: Some of these cheats may be prevented in certain versions of BZFlag." |
| 08:36.52 | think_tank | RadarPath was the subject of some discussion on here earlier today |
| 08:37.17 | think_tank | i don't know what the consensus ended up being, but that item is an original item from the subtle cheats page |
| 08:38.29 | Constitution | ~think_tank++ |
| 08:54.19 | think_tank | L4M3r: I would put back instant spawn. It is still occurring in the open, even if it, like other cheats, has been/will be fixed in newer versions |
| 08:56.55 | think_tank | i changed to note to read "NOTE: Some of these cheats may be prevented or already fixed in certain versions of BZFlag." for ya :D |
| 08:58.51 | L4m3r | think_tank: it's fixed in 2.0 SVN |
| 08:59.21 | L4m3r | so, the big servers already have the fix |
| 08:59.50 | think_tank | is 2.0 SVN = version 2.0.0? |
| 08:59.57 | L4m3r | 2.0.11 |
| 09:00.26 | L4m3r | it's a server-side fix |
| 09:03.22 | L4m3r | so, your call. revert it if you like... I'm going to bed |
| 09:03.31 | think_tank | nite |
| 09:06.34 | think_tank | I suppose we could add a section of the article for "fixed" cheats. that's likey to fill up as they get fixed in newer versions |
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| 09:09.36 | Slynderdale | Hmm, does anyone here know the ammount of characters you can send at one time over IRC? |
| 09:12.13 | Constitution | Google and/or Wikipedia are your friends |
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| 09:21.17 | Constitution | yay, the iPhone/iPod SDK is out |
| 09:23.23 | Constitution | and the race is on to get BZFlag running on the iPhone ;) |
| 09:24.57 | Slynderdale | Constitution: Probily will never happen ;p Its not really feasable and also the iPhone doesn't have 3g support so it has limited bandwidth and also high latency/lag. |
| 09:25.56 | ruskie | should be more than enough for admins though :) |
| 09:26.21 | Constitution | Slynderdale: it has wifi |
| 09:26.35 | Constitution | but I doubt the graphics support is up to the task |
| 09:26.40 | Constitution | should be fun anyway :P |
| 09:27.19 | Slynderdale | Constitution: True, though how feasable is it to play BZFlag with no keyboard or mouse and on a tiny screen? ;p |
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| 09:29.48 | Constitution | it has multi-touch :) |
| 09:29.59 | Constitution | and the accelerometer, however that's spelled |
| 09:31.08 | Constitution | eek, 2.1GB download |
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| 13:40.23 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03t-s * r16725 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: Not crashing at client quit right now |
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| 13:59.16 | blast007 | ts: it crashed for delusional_ last night: http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m7e20cf62 |
| 13:59.28 | blast007 | on exit |
| 14:06.37 | ts | blast007: Err |
| 14:06.43 | ts | It doesn't anymore for me |
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| 14:28.55 | bz95 | Can anyone tell me if there is problem with the list server |
| 14:29.20 | bz95 | I can't connect. Not sure if problem on my end |
| 14:29.38 | Pimpi | works here |
| 14:30.51 | bz95 | Must be my end still can not connect. Cheers |
| 14:56.45 | brlcad | ~bzflist |
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| 15:53.21 | blast007 | heh, apparently ibot doesn't properly parse 2.99.x server info, because there isn't 15 players on each of my trunk servers :P |
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| 16:00.40 | ts | blast007: yeah, I did rewrite the php one but I don't know perl..so it's borked |
| 16:01.45 | blast007 | ts: and someone was rewriting the new PHP one as well, but we'll see how that goes |
| 16:02.06 | ts | Who's that someone? |
| 16:04.25 | blast007 | iirc, Slynderdale |
| 16:04.53 | ts | Hmm, never heard of him. |
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| 16:11.25 | ts | blast007: What would you think of a MsgScreenshot to tell other players when someone is taking a screenshot |
| 16:12.27 | ts | Good idea, neutral or bad? |
| 16:13.52 | blast007 | for what reason? |
| 16:14.33 | ts | Reason is that a screenshot changes tank movement |
| 16:14.51 | blast007 | then maybe we should fix how the simulation works, or how the screenshot code works |
| 16:15.44 | ts | I fear the simulation needs to be changed entirely |
| 16:16.20 | ts | and the screenshot code..well, it'll always have some impact on fps |
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| 16:17.32 | ts | The simulation won't be changed entirely for 3.0 I think.. |
| 16:17.36 | blast007 | still, it can be made better |
| 16:18.00 | blast007 | ts: not if nobody codes it :P |
| 16:18.36 | ts | Simulation is difficult to do.. |
| 16:19.34 | ts | Perhaps it can't be completly FPS-independent at all |
| 16:20.26 | blast007 | it sure could be |
| 16:20.42 | blast007 | it just would not be easy to separate all the code |
| 16:20.45 | ts | Like with 20FPS I can see DR is simulating the path but at the next update the tank is at a different position than predicted. |
| 16:21.12 | blast007 | the simulation can run at a simulated 60FPS in the background |
| 16:21.19 | blast007 | even in it's own thread |
| 16:21.49 | blast007 | and then throttle back the graphics if it's blocking the simulation from processing |
| 16:21.53 | ts | Nothing guarantees the 60FPS, does it? |
| 16:22.05 | blast007 | of course not |
| 16:22.28 | ts | In the moment it goes down we come back to the different movement |
| 16:23.03 | ts | and the only way of compensating things like that would be adding lag, IMHO |
| 16:23.19 | pacman_87 | could the client accept a position update from the server for its tank? |
| 16:23.21 | blast007 | but really, the simulation does not take that much CPU time |
| 16:23.23 | ts | as we need lag to know the next step for DR |
| 16:23.53 | pacman_87 | so have the server tell the client where it is after the screenshot? |
| 16:23.59 | ts | Can threads be run with different priorities? |
| 16:24.16 | blast007 | ts: go look it up |
| 16:24.29 | blast007 | I'm not sure myself |
| 16:24.31 | ts | Heh, I feared that answer |
| 16:27.00 | Wyk3d | an easy way to do it is to put the thread to sleep if you want to decrease its priority |
| 16:29.52 | ts | What's when we have one operation inside a thread that uses much CPU? |
| 16:29.54 | Wyk3d | or maybe SetThreadPriority might help .. http://www.devarticles.com/c/a/Cplusplus/Multithreading-in-C/2/ |
| 16:30.15 | Wyk3d | you can't have ONE operation that uses much cpu |
| 16:30.30 | Wyk3d | every operation can be broken down |
| 16:30.45 | ts | Let's say we use a 3rd party lib :) |
| 16:30.51 | Wyk3d | but if that's hard then maybe SetThreadPriority |
| 16:31.03 | ts | That would be messy to change 3rd party code |
| 16:32.19 | ts | gotta go |
| 16:38.32 | JeffM | wow, and I thought i was negitive |
| 16:42.12 | JeffM | ts, screenshots are now async |
| 16:42.19 | JeffM | they don't affect sim that much |
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| 17:41.19 | ts | JeffM: They still do enough to make a difference |
| 17:43.28 | JeffM | ts, have you tried in trunk very recently? |
| 17:43.37 | ts | JeffM: Yes, I did. |
| 17:43.49 | JeffM | then we need to make sure our sims are segmented |
| 17:43.58 | JeffM | there are totaly things we can do to fix the low FPS issues |
| 17:44.04 | JeffM | math is not that hard |
| 17:44.19 | JeffM | the compresson is now external, so all we have to do is eat the read |
| 17:44.34 | JeffM | and we can segment the sim in that to build a number of fake frames |
| 17:44.49 | JeffM | it will take time sure, but it shoudl not affect sim in a bad way |
| 17:45.30 | JeffM | the work to segment sim is more simple then adding a message that dosn't realy tell much |
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| 17:45.47 | ts | What do you mean by segmenting? |
| 17:45.57 | ts | Putting them into several pieces? |
| 17:46.02 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:46.38 | ts | I don't see how that would change the problem. |
| 17:46.50 | blast007 | what *is* the problem? |
| 17:46.52 | JeffM | the problem with sim is the DT is too big |
| 17:46.58 | JeffM | and it lets you go thru things |
| 17:47.07 | JeffM | if you break that DT into smaller chunks our code works |
| 17:47.12 | JeffM | and dosn't let you go thru things |
| 17:47.58 | JeffM | we can ether break into smaller DT chunks ( chunks that emulate a higher FPS ) or, make our sim not be dependent on the DT size. |
| 17:48.05 | ts | You also need to make sure the dt steps are not too little. |
| 17:48.09 | JeffM | yes |
| 17:48.21 | JeffM | for that I wish to limit the FPS to like 120 or so |
| 17:48.28 | JeffM | and cap the sim updates at some limit |
| 17:48.36 | JeffM | we can just draw dead frames if we have to |
| 17:48.45 | JeffM | it's all solveable |
| 17:49.04 | ts | Dead frames...hrm |
| 17:49.16 | ts | That costs CPU... |
| 17:49.20 | JeffM | then don't draw them |
| 17:49.34 | JeffM | you can't see over 75ps anyway |
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| 17:50.02 | JeffM | all it does is make us nicer on hardware |
| 17:50.05 | blast007 | hello bz91 |
| 17:50.10 | JeffM | since we don't try to draw as fast as possible |
| 17:50.14 | bz91 | hi |
| 17:50.17 | ts | I've heard of studies saying max is 90FPS a human can notice in some way |
| 17:50.28 | JeffM | ts, hence why I said limit to like 100 or 120 ;) |
| 17:50.32 | blast007 | bye bz91 |
| 17:50.34 | JeffM | we can pick SOME limit |
| 17:50.42 | ts | However I don't understand how it solves things. |
| 17:51.00 | JeffM | it makes our sim always have input values that it can work with |
| 17:51.06 | JeffM | that is the core problem, the DT that sim gets |
| 17:51.11 | ts | putting in chunks is like seperating graphics and physics |
| 17:51.15 | JeffM | yes it is |
| 17:51.17 | JeffM | and that is a good thing |
| 17:51.27 | ts | Indeed.. |
| 17:51.34 | JeffM | it's not that hard to do |
| 17:51.43 | JeffM | it's a freaking while loop ;) |
| 17:51.45 | ts | but let's say a computer only can draw 30 FPS |
| 17:51.54 | blast007 | ts: the key word is *draw* |
| 17:52.04 | blast007 | if simulation was in it's own thread, we could run that more often |
| 17:52.09 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o blast007] by blast007 |
| 17:52.17 | JeffM | if we break each sim frame into 2 chunks, our internal sim would do 2 steps per drawn frame |
| 17:52.27 | JeffM | and be running at an internal 60 fps |
| 17:52.29 | ts | Now we take a screenshot..and how can we make sure the physics loop will stay at same dt? |
| 17:52.36 | JeffM | ts, wll you take a screen shot |
| 17:53.00 | JeffM | so instead of having a dt of 33 ms, you get one that is 85ms |
| 17:53.18 | JeffM | so for that frame, we break it into 3 sim frames |
| 17:53.31 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:53.38 | JeffM | and sim each seperately |
| 17:53.50 | JeffM | then the drawing is done on the results of the last frame |
| 17:53.57 | ts | Wait. |
| 17:54.23 | ts | If the drawed frames drop down, why doesn't the physics? |
| 17:54.49 | KTL | drawn |
| 17:54.50 | JeffM | because we have code that splits up the DT |
| 17:54.57 | JeffM | the sim did drop too |
| 17:55.10 | JeffM | but instead of computing ONE frame the next time we got CPU time, we computed 3 |
| 17:55.14 | JeffM | we made up the time |
| 17:55.25 | JeffM | we did the math later that we would have done in the dead CPU time |
| 17:55.30 | JeffM | it dosn't have to happen in real time. |
| 17:55.58 | ts | If we compute later, what protects us from jitter? |
| 17:56.04 | JeffM | math |
| 17:56.09 | JeffM | jitter is a network thing |
| 17:56.22 | JeffM | yes that frame spike will increase network lag slighly |
| 17:56.26 | JeffM | but that is a seperate issyue |
| 17:56.31 | JeffM | one we now compensate for |
| 17:57.01 | JeffM | but they also could not add any new input in that lag spike, so they will still be going on the same input path |
| 17:57.11 | JeffM | so the prediction on the server and other clients will be correct |
| 17:57.34 | JeffM | jitter and lag are only major factors in 2.0.x, 3.0 compensates for lag |
| 17:58.15 | ts | I've tried to test in 2.99.x but I couldn't |
| 17:58.17 | JeffM | do you have any real duplicatable cases in 3.0 that you can test and show? |
| 17:58.25 | JeffM | so that is a no then |
| 17:58.36 | ts | Went repeadely nr and client freezes |
| 17:58.42 | JeffM | well that we have to fix |
| 17:58.54 | JeffM | once that is fixed then do new tests and see what you get |
| 17:59.04 | JeffM | we have made changes in 3.0 that should help many of these problems. |
| 18:00.47 | JeffM | but I don't think we should go adding messages, or start talking about third party code, when we haven't even tested our own solutions to the issues at hand ;) |
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| 19:05.30 | Slynderdale | blast007: Hmm, I can test and see how mine does and if it parses the 2.99.x protocol correctly |
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| 19:35.40 | blast007 | Slynderdale: okay |
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| 20:17.18 | AHA | ~constitution++ |
| 20:17.37 | Constitution | wat fer? |
| 20:17.51 | a_meteorite | for tearing my logical thinking down |
| 20:18.00 | AHA | mhmm |
| 20:18.15 | a_meteorite | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12349 |
| 20:20.18 | spldart | 70 to 100 kv makes quite an arc |
| 20:21.05 | Constitution | ah, so we just passed t=12345 |
| 20:21.59 | Winny | aww |
| 20:22.11 | Winny | Ill wait for t=31415926353 |
| 20:24.50 | a_meteorite | topic 1337 is a little lame :( |
| 20:27.46 | jftsang | surely lasers should be allowed to kill Phantom Zone? |
| 20:28.30 | Constitution | why? |
| 20:28.37 | jftsang | a laser is a photon of light, and we know that PZ is killed by shockwaves (which, to my understanding, is just an electromagnetic wave at high amplitude) |
| 20:28.52 | Winny | and tanks don't jump :) |
| 20:28.57 | Constitution | superbullet as well |
| 20:29.25 | jftsang | or how about a better idea? get rid of PZ altogether |
| 20:29.51 | Winny | why? |
| 20:29.53 | Winny | it's useful |
| 20:31.00 | jftsang | yeah, but at a cost to simplicity |
| 20:31.23 | Constitution | this game isn't all about simplicity |
| 20:31.23 | Winny | if you don't like it don't add it to your map |
| 20:31.26 | Winny | simple as that |
| 20:32.07 | jftsang | (from http://my.bzflag.org/w/Flag_Ideas): Chances are if a flag requires more than a short sentence or two, it's too complicated for the game. |
| 20:32.37 | Winny | You're right. if something takes an oodle of thought to process, it should never ever be used |
| 20:32.43 | jftsang | and still nobody has deleted Nuclear Fallout |
| 20:32.52 | Winny | it's a wiki |
| 20:32.57 | Winny | you can delete it yourself |
| 20:33.00 | blast007 | Winny: stop thinking so much. you make blast's head hurt!! owww! |
| 20:33.10 | a_meteorite | my eyes exploded long ago |
| 20:33.27 | blast007 | why delete it? |
| 20:33.35 | blast007 | mark it as "not gonna happen" |
| 20:38.14 | Winny | ~blast007 |
| 20:38.14 | ibot | hmm... blast007 is very insane, or a cheese-stealer |
| 20:47.56 | jftsang | would a "kick" plugin look something like this: bool goodbye = bz_kickUser ( player_ID, "goodbye", false ); |
| 20:49.40 | blast007 | something like that |
| 20:49.42 | jftsang | http://pastebin.com/d5ed8791d (notice the amount of code stolen from Phoenix) |
| 20:49.48 | blast007 | read the API |
| 20:50.01 | blast007 | you can't write a plugin by guessing |
| 20:50.05 | blast007 | learn to learn :P |
| 20:50.39 | Constitution | bz_kickUser( force, yes, true, now ); |
| 20:57.43 | jftsang | well, it works |
| 20:59.42 | jftsang | but is there a function which returns the name of a player with a given ID? |
| 21:00.24 | Constitution | getPlayerByIndex |
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| 21:04.18 | pacman87 | that returns the player record |
| 21:06.27 | jftsang | so, bz_basePlayerRecord killer = bz_getPlayerByIndex ( killer_ID ); |
| 21:06.27 | jftsang | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:07.33 | pacman87 | are you using the 2.0 or 3.0 API? |
| 21:07.37 | jftsang | 2.0 |
| 21:07.50 | Constitution | should work |
| 21:08.10 | Winny | REQUIREIDENTIFY makes users who are registered identify, right? |
| 21:08.22 | Constitution | yes |
| 21:09.58 | pacman87 | i'm pretty sure you want bz_PlayerRecord, not bz_basePlayerRecord |
| 21:10.45 | pacman87 | and bz_getPlayerByIndex( int index) returns a pointer to the record |
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| 21:11.13 | jftsang | anyhow, it built |
| 21:11.20 | pacman87 | when you're done with it, be sure to call bz_freePlayerRecord ( bz_PlayerRecord *playerRecord ) |
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| 21:12.14 | pacman87 | hmmm, i couldnt' find bz_basePlayerRecord in bzfsAPI.h, are you sure you're using 2.0? |
| 21:12.35 | jftsang | pretty sure |
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| 21:13.29 | jftsang | it says so in the Wiki |
| 21:13.30 | jftsang | BZF_API bz_BasePlayerRecord *bz_getPlayerByIndex ( int index ); |
| 21:13.54 | Constitution | the wiki is 3.0 |
| 21:14.12 | jftsang | and it built anyway, and seemsto run (so far) |
| 21:14.35 | pacman87 | what line? |
| 21:14.48 | jftsang | line of what? |
| 21:14.53 | pacman87 | bzfsAPI.h |
| 21:15.17 | jftsang | it's not in there |
| 21:15.24 | jftsang | but it still managed to build |
| 21:16.03 | pacman87 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:16.31 | jftsang | the Wiki... under Player Information, near the top, in Functions(API) |
| 21:17.36 | pacman87 | for 2.0, i've found it's better to just read bzfsAPI.h, because the wiki is 3.0 |
| 21:22.16 | JeffM | the 3.0 api is very similar to the older one |
| 21:22.23 | JeffM | mostly just spelling changes |
| 21:23.19 | L4m3r | no more bz_eLogingEvent? :P |
| 21:23.46 | JeffM | was something added to branch that was not in trunk? |
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| 21:24.11 | L4m3r | JeffM: no, I meant "Logging" instead of "Loging" :P |
| 21:24.27 | JeffM | oh heh |
| 21:24.28 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:24.32 | L4m3r | and yes, the best approach has always been to just read bzfsAPI.h. the docs have never really been completely up-to-date for 2.0. |
| 21:24.45 | JeffM | or use an editor that highlighs ;) |
| 21:24.51 | JeffM | and does autocomplete |
| 21:25.06 | L4m3r | yeah, that's one thing I really miss about using VS |
| 21:25.08 | L4m3r | :P |
| 21:25.17 | JeffM | VC 8 makes it prety nice |
| 21:25.31 | JeffM | I'm sure there are ways to get other editors to do the same things |
| 21:27.17 | L4m3r | that plug-in starter I wrote is complete for events, I think |
| 21:27.21 | JeffM | cool |
| 21:27.32 | L4m3r | and it includes the data members if you ask it to add comments for you |
| 21:27.51 | L4m3r | so, that's another way to get the info, for the events. Functions are another story |
| 21:30.35 | JeffM | well at some point they have to write some code themselves ;) |
| 21:31.02 | JeffM | events , custom slash commands, and custom world obejcts are things you can automate. |
| 21:31.06 | JeffM | the callback stuff |
| 21:31.50 | jftsang | just for some clarification... bz_IPBanUser() takes a const char* for the IP address, but bz_playerRecord->ipAddress is a bzApiString. How do I convert between them? |
| 21:32.14 | JeffM | ipAddress.c_str() |
| 21:32.20 | JeffM | that returns a const char* |
| 21:32.25 | JeffM | just like a std::string |
| 21:32.50 | jftsang | so bz_getPlayerByIndex(player_ID)->ipAddress.c_str() |
| 21:32.53 | jftsang | is that right? |
| 21:33.01 | JeffM | yes and no |
| 21:33.16 | JeffM | you need to store the player record into a var |
| 21:33.21 | JeffM | check that it's not null |
| 21:33.24 | JeffM | then get the IP |
| 21:33.32 | JeffM | then tell the API to delete the player |
| 21:33.38 | JeffM | or you'll have a memory leak |
| 21:34.36 | JeffM | cus we won't know when you are done with it |
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| 21:51.00 | Winny | . |
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| 21:52.12 | JeffM | jftsang, dude.... |
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| 22:10.53 | tj13810 | how would i make a poll to ask if a change of map type is favored |
| 22:11.14 | JeffM | that pool can't change the map |
| 22:11.21 | tj13810 | but i can |
| 22:11.26 | JeffM | but you can ask whatever you want in the poll |
| 22:11.33 | F687s | You could probably rig something up with a plugin |
| 22:11.47 | tj13810 | i now that, but how does the /poll work with random questions |
| 22:12.05 | tj13810 | F687s good idea, might try that |
| 22:12.30 | tj13810 | i can do /poll kick /poll set but not /poll "question" |
| 22:12.33 | F687s | As far as I know (in 2.0), /poll can only kick, ban, flagreset, and set variables. And I don't think it could be overriden |
| 22:12.33 | tj13810 | just never had to |
| 22:13.07 | tj13810 | i'm only talking about getting people to give their imput on a question |
| 22:13.30 | tj13810 | the /poll vote yes|no option |
| 22:13.37 | F687s | I've seen things like '/poll set "Do you like cheese?"' |
| 22:13.55 | tj13810 | i'll try that |
| 22:14.17 | blast007 | make new commands |
| 22:14.37 | Winny | dear god, I wish turing supported OOP |
| 22:14.45 | Winny | having a 1000 line loop is not fun |
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| 22:16.25 | F687s | Turing? *googles* |
| 22:16.40 | whodaman | the language |
| 22:17.00 | Winny | some crappy language we need to use for some reason in CompSci class |
| 22:18.06 | a_meteorite | it makes my eyes explode to read |
| 22:18.42 | F687s | Looks very CompSci-ey |
| 22:18.52 | Winny | yeah, it's like some off lovechild of VB and god knows what else |
| 22:18.55 | Winny | odd* |
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| 22:20.06 | a_meteorite | Winny: It was made in Canada, what else do you expect? |
| 22:20.24 | jftsang | could you have something like /poll /action, where /action could be any slashed action (e.g. kick, ban, set, shutdownserver, loadplugin) |
| 22:20.27 | Winny | I'd expect eh loops |
| 22:20.51 | blast007 | /poll /poll kick jftsang |
| 22:21.18 | F687s | jftsang: You could probably rig something up with a plugin |
| 22:21.27 | blast007 | and sure, you can do anything you want |
| 22:21.35 | blast007 | you have the code |
| 22:21.59 | blast007 | might have to modify bzfs, but you can |
| 22:22.18 | L4m3r | I've considered tweaking all bzfs commands so that they don't need to be run by any particular player |
| 22:22.41 | L4m3r | so commands could be called directly from the API, and most of the built-in API functions could be removed |
| 22:25.40 | Lukstr | hi all |
| 22:26.33 | JeffM | L4m3r, yes it would be nice if it could just all map to single common functions |
| 22:26.38 | JeffM | that'd be the final goal I belive |
| 22:26.56 | JeffM | a "do ban" method that works from ether a player or API, etc.. |
| 22:28.18 | L4m3r | or just leave the command handling as-is, and have something like "runCommand("ban asshat max \"No cheating\""); |
| 22:29.08 | JeffM | that is a lot harder to debug |
| 22:29.12 | JeffM | I'd prefre core methods |
| 22:29.18 | JeffM | then throwing around slow strings |
| 22:29.27 | Lukstr | a_meteorite: you hatin' on Canada? |
| 22:29.27 | JeffM | strings are not fast |
| 22:30.20 | a_meteorite | Lukstr: no |
| 22:30.37 | Erroneous | L4m3r: in trunk, SSPs can do exactly that. you have to create the player, but it's not a huge deal |
| 22:30.58 | L4m3r | Erroneous: :\ |
| 22:31.14 | Lukstr | just remember, odds are Canada's bigger than you ;) |
| 22:31.14 | L4m3r | couldn't we just have ServerPlayer do it? |
| 22:31.33 | JeffM | server player is not a player record |
| 22:31.36 | JeffM | just an ID |
| 22:31.42 | Erroneous | L4m3r: not really. most commands do other stuff too (like send messages back to the sending player) |
| 22:31.55 | JeffM | that's the core reason they are not the same right now |
| 22:32.03 | Erroneous | so you have to have something set up to receive the output |
| 22:32.11 | Erroneous | and if you have to do that, why not just have a player object? |
| 22:32.11 | JeffM | I'd like a core version that the API uses, and then the commands do by pulling out the input, and formating the output |
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| 22:41.47 | Lukstr | JeffM: ping |
| 22:42.20 | JeffM | ? |
| 22:42.28 | Lukstr | what's up |
| 22:42.37 | JeffM | not much |
| 22:42.40 | JeffM | whatcha need? |
| 22:42.45 | Lukstr | nothing too much |
| 22:42.47 | Winny | Whatever is not down, is up :p |
| 22:42.51 | Lukstr | just hanging out in here for now |
| 22:43.01 | JeffM | fun |
| 22:43.10 | Lukstr | :) |
| 22:45.00 | L4m3r | well that was ghetto |
| 22:45.05 | Winny | ~blast007++ |
| 22:45.12 | L4m3r | I needed to cut a piece of thin stainless pipe |
| 22:45.26 | L4m3r | don't have a hacksaw or a pipe cutter |
| 22:45.31 | JeffM | did you use bondo? |
| 22:45.41 | JeffM | ;) |
| 22:45.50 | Lukstr | L4m3r: what did you use? |
| 22:46.30 | L4m3r | so I put it in the chuck of my drill, zip-tied the drill to a chair, and cut it with a file. |
| 22:46.30 | L4m3r | like a lathe |
| 22:46.30 | Lukstr | L4m3r: ouch |
| 22:46.30 | JeffM | that's called a lathe |
| 22:46.30 | L4m3r | "Dorm lathe" :P |
| 22:46.30 | JeffM | Lukstr, you'd be supprised how often that SAME thing is used in real life |
| 22:46.30 | Lukstr | I like it though |
| 22:46.30 | JeffM | L4m3r, there are mills that do the same thing |
| 22:46.33 | Lukstr | JeffM: More frightened than surprised |
| 22:46.38 | L4m3r | yeah, I've used them |
| 22:46.45 | JeffM | bolt a tool arm to the table, throw the part int he chuck ;) |
| 22:46.48 | L4m3r | but using a drill as a lathe is still pretty bad :P |
| 22:46.50 | JeffM | Lukstr, it's perfectly normal |
| 22:46.59 | Lukstr | JeffM: to use a HAND drill as a LATHE? |
| 22:47.06 | L4m3r | especially without the center at the other end |
| 22:47.09 | Lukstr | yeah |
| 22:47.10 | JeffM | Lukstr, mill, hand drll came basic thing |
| 22:47.18 | Lukstr | No, hand drills are not designed for that |
| 22:47.21 | JeffM | pfff tailstocks are for chumps |
| 22:47.22 | Lukstr | millers are capable |
| 22:47.42 | Lukstr | the chuck isn't designed for taking forces from one side like that |
| 22:47.58 | JeffM | sure it is, ever wiggle a drill around :) |
| 22:48.07 | JeffM | they actualy have very strong chuks |
| 22:48.14 | L4m3r | it's a $20 Hyundai drill, I'm over it :P |
| 22:48.18 | JeffM | accuracy would be his big issue |
| 22:48.21 | JeffM | and I'm sure it worked fine |
| 22:48.51 | Lukstr | I'd just use the miller at the engg shop at school :P |
| 22:49.04 | JeffM | it's called just a mill |
| 22:49.10 | JeffM | a miller is the person wo runs it ;) |
| 22:49.31 | Lukstr | that's my point :) |
| 22:49.43 | L4m3r | in high school we had to make a machined meat tenderizer |
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| 22:49.50 | L4m3r | handle on the lathe, head on the mill |
| 22:50.05 | JeffM | mmm knrulling :) |
| 22:50.10 | Lukstr | hah |
| 22:50.10 | L4m3r | yup |
| 22:50.30 | JeffM | sadly we do not do knurlling |
| 22:50.32 | L4m3r | fresh, sharp knurled handles give a hell of a grip |
| 22:51.07 | L4m3r | almost every consumer product I've seen doesn't have the handles knurled all the way... probably to avoid giving the user blisters |
| 22:51.17 | Lukstr | my free-weights are knurled |
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| 22:51.36 | Lukstr | gloves + knurling = win |
| 22:51.45 | Lukstr | !gloves + knurling = sparkly hands |
| 22:52.34 | L4m3r | I discovered that you can get a cool look by buffing a knurled rod |
| 22:52.40 | L4m3r | not much for grip though :) |
| 22:52.53 | Lukstr | L4m3r: haha |
| 22:57.36 | L4m3r | Dirty deeds... done dirt cheap! |
| 22:58.35 | L4m3r | wow, yes. accuracy is the issue... I left maybe 1/8" of room to file down, and it ain't easy... this is some tough stuff |
| 23:04.55 | Lukstr | that was a tasty sandwich |
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