| 00:00.21 | spldart | hehe@winny.org |
| 00:05.52 | Winny | ~karma learner |
| 00:05.52 | ibot | learner has karma of 95 |
| 00:05.59 | Winny | ~learner++ |
| 00:06.01 | a_meteorite | ~karma |
| 00:06.01 | ibot | a_meteorite has karma of 41 |
| 00:06.22 | Winny | ~karma |
| 00:06.22 | ibot | winny has karma of 45 |
| 00:06.24 | Winny | :o |
| 00:08.41 | tj13810 | ~Karma tj13820 |
| 00:08.41 | ibot | tj13820 has neutral karma |
| 00:09.59 | JeffM2501 | karma wars? |
| 00:10.08 | Winny | sure, why not |
| 00:10.10 | Winny | ~karma JeffM2501 |
| 00:10.10 | ibot | jeffm2501 has karma of 372 |
| 00:10.30 | JeffM2501 | spldart, and yes I was just curious if I could make it build |
| 00:10.34 | JeffM2501 | I can it's just not prety |
| 00:12.30 | spldart | :-D Just cuz you can is a good excuse :-D |
| 00:17.15 | Winny | Never gonna give you up |
| 00:17.23 | Winny | never gonna let you down |
| 00:17.32 | Winny | ;D |
| 00:18.24 | Winny | never gonna run around and, dessert you! |
| 00:18.39 | Winny | If you won't go to the rick roll, it comes to you ;) |
| 00:22.56 | spldart | Oh now you see! You rickrolled TR right off the channel darnit |
| 00:23.14 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:40.23 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@c-68-49-10-243.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:43.46 | L4m3r | consider yourself desserted |
| 00:43.56 | Winny | you noticed |
| 00:48.32 | Slynderdale | JeffM2501: Hmm, my compiled version is over 5 megs while the original is just over 1. Also I get a "Missing MSVCP80D.dll" error ;p |
| 00:50.54 | JeffM2501 | you built debug |
| 00:50.57 | JeffM2501 | so it's bigger |
| 00:51.14 | Slynderdale | JeffM2501: Ah I see, how do I disable debug? |
| 00:51.21 | JeffM2501 | change the target to release |
| 00:51.35 | JeffM2501 | and are you trying to take it to another machine? |
| 00:52.50 | JeffM2501 | or using it on the same machine as the build sytstem? |
| 00:53.47 | Slynderdale | JeffM2501: Most likely the same machine but I may save BZFlag to my flash stick to take with me on the go. |
| 00:54.07 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-177-176-191.natsoe.res.rr.com) |
| 00:54.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 00:56.51 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, want to be a mentor ? |
| 00:57.28 | JeffM2501 | Slynderdale, you can't use the stuff you build with express edition to other systems |
| 00:57.42 | brlcad | bryjen: want to be a mentor? |
| 00:57.57 | Slynderdale | JeffM2501: Its Microsoft Visual Studio 2005 |
| 00:58.08 | Erroneous | bryjen: want to be a mentor? |
| 00:58.08 | JeffM2501 | Slynderdale, retular or express eddition? |
| 00:58.15 | Slynderdale | JeffM2501: Regular |
| 00:58.20 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 00:58.25 | JeffM2501 | then yeah, build release |
| 00:58.35 | JeffM2501 | just change the target from debug to release |
| 00:58.51 | Slynderdale | JeffM2501: Got it, thanks |
| 00:59.00 | JeffM2501 | the EE uses gimped runtimes to prevent distrobution |
| 01:00.10 | *** join/#bzflag bz84 (n=62c29ff6@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:00.31 | bz84 | hi |
| 01:00.39 | bz84 | hello |
| 01:00.57 | bz84 | 02 |
| 01:01.15 | spldart | Is their a quota to be met on this mentorship program with the GSoC? |
| 01:01.47 | JeffM2501 | at least 6, but I'd like to have 8 or 10 |
| 01:01.51 | spldart | Gah.. I need a mentor on sp and grammar |
| 01:02.02 | spldart | IC just curious |
| 01:02.14 | spldart | last year there were? |
| 01:02.45 | spldart | meh N/M |
| 01:03.09 | JeffM2501 | last year it was 7 or 8 |
| 01:03.17 | JeffM2501 | but we only had 4 project |
| 01:04.36 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16712 10/trunk/bzflag/src/other/ (freetype/Makefile.am zlib/Makefile.am): few files missing from dist |
| 01:04.57 | pacman87 | i had to copy libcurl.dll and zlib1.dll into the same directory as bzflag.exe, and now it says "The ordinal 55 could not be located in the dynamic link library zlib1.dll |
| 01:05.25 | blast007 | wring zlib file then |
| 01:05.33 | blast007 | wrong* |
| 01:05.35 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16713 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/MacOSX/Makefile.am: restructure the build rules so that the mac files are included regardless of whether we're configured to use sdl instead of native |
| 01:05.51 | pacman87 | what version does 2.0.10 need? |
| 01:06.26 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16714 10/trunk/bzflag/ (3 files in 3 dirs): more files missing from dist |
| 01:06.29 | JeffM2501 | just grab a libcurl from one if the bins |
| 01:06.34 | blast007 | pacman87: I always build my own libcurl on windows, and then it doesn't need the zlib dll |
| 01:06.36 | JeffM2501 | it's simpler that way |
| 01:07.34 | pacman87 | JeffM2501: thanks, that works |
| 01:09.39 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16715 10/trunk/bzflag/src/other/Makefile.am: manually specify files that are missing from the dist for packages that we let subconfigure. better to put them here in case we upgrade the dep |
| 01:26.28 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 01:35.52 | brlcad | gah |
| 01:36.01 | brlcad | blast007: please please .. no confirm dialog? :) |
| 01:36.07 | Slynderdale | jorgenpt: I compiled a relase version but get a runtime error. R6034 An application has made an attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly. |
| 01:36.08 | blast007 | hmm? |
| 01:36.11 | blast007 | why not? |
| 01:36.18 | blast007 | :P |
| 01:36.25 | brlcad | HID issue |
| 01:36.28 | blast007 | turn off javascript then ;) |
| 01:36.34 | Slynderdale | Well anyone familar with compiling under windows: I compiled a relase version but get a runtime error. R6034 An application has made an attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly. |
| 01:36.57 | brlcad | does reject delete the file? |
| 01:37.02 | blast007 | yes |
| 01:38.15 | brlcad | hm, maybe useful to toss everything into a hidden deleted dir that could be recovered, but even without it, little risk of accidental |
| 01:39.18 | blast007 | why would we want to recover rejected images? |
| 01:39.44 | brlcad | why would we want to confirm? :) |
| 01:39.59 | brlcad | from a HID perspective, the only reason to ask would be non-recoverable actions |
| 01:40.21 | brlcad | but even then, i'm not sure we care if it's not recoverable |
| 01:40.30 | brlcad | error rate is just near-non-existent |
| 01:40.46 | brlcad | issue is more efficiency so they can be responded to as quickly as possible |
| 01:41.17 | brlcad | that's the biggest problem I had with the old one, it would force me to accept, refresh, accept, refresh, accept, refresh.. really slow interaction |
| 01:42.28 | blast007 | yeah, you can't "bump" the reject |
| 01:42.36 | blast007 | since you also have to leave a rejection reason |
| 01:42.59 | brlcad | also apparently can't answer them all at once :) |
| 01:43.03 | blast007 | yeah |
| 01:43.08 | blast007 | I had started that |
| 01:43.21 | blast007 | but I wanted to get the queue *working* first ;) |
| 01:43.29 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 01:43.34 | blast007 | so it's just a matter of time to get that in |
| 01:43.37 | brlcad | yeah, it's functional now |
| 01:44.11 | blast007 | also still need to put the rest of the text into the language files |
| 01:44.18 | blast007 | and then if someone is bored, they can translate it :) |
| 01:57.20 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect_1 (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 01:58.07 | *** join/#bzflag zee110 (n=80f0e541@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-4e7239c8a10d0a6e) |
| 01:58.21 | *** join/#bzflag zee110 (n=80f0e541@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-1381f5dd9e28b777) |
| 02:00.17 | Slynderdale | Hmm, whats the official BZFlag server or a server with people on it? |
| 02:05.46 | Winny | official bzflag server ? |
| 02:07.17 | DTRemenak | one.bzflag.org:5154 could be considered official, I suppose |
| 02:07.25 | DTRemenak | if it's still running |
| 02:09.45 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:11.32 | blast007 | Slynderdale: if you're talking about 2.99.x, there really won't be any with players on. You'll have to find some people here with trunk clients. |
| 02:11.40 | blast007 | if you mean 2.0.x, then pick one at the top |
| 02:49.16 | spldart | is there anyway I can go into a subversion checkout and pullout of it easily the r#####? |
| 02:53.00 | *** join/#bzflag coffee (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 03:00.14 | blast007 | spldart: svn co -r #### https://whatever |
| 03:00.38 | blast007 | or, if you already have a checkout, and want to change to a different revision: svn up -r ##### |
| 03:02.09 | spldart | just to be sure I was clear.. I'm offline (intarweb)... i'm in terminal.... and I wanna know the revision I'm @ from a checkout lets say was 1 and a half weeks ago... HJow'd I do that |
| 03:02.27 | bryjen | svn info |
| 03:02.31 | spldart | And... KEW! I can checkout up to a certain revision and not go past that? |
| 03:02.44 | blast007 | spldart: yup |
| 03:02.47 | spldart | svn info.. IC |
| 03:03.18 | spldart | ~bryjen++ |
| 03:03.21 | spldart | ~blast007++ |
| 03:04.59 | spldart | * svn info | grep Rev: * Hooks me up nicely :-) |
| 03:06.25 | spldart | Then 16715 builds nicely |
| 03:07.09 | spldart | I'm really liking svn WAY better than cvs btw |
| 03:07.45 | L4m3r | CVS is awful |
| 03:08.17 | spldart | From my standpoint I don't seen any advantage for cvs.. but I'm not a dev |
| 03:09.00 | spldart | qualify 'builds nicely' with 'on linux' |
| 03:09.06 | L4m3r | iirc, a big part of the reason SVN was created was to provide an better alternative for CVS's suckage |
| 03:09.25 | spldart | Then they succeeded FTW |
| 03:09.44 | L4m3r | :) |
| 03:15.56 | Slynderdale | Yay, almost done for the most part with my BZFlag IRC plugin |
| 03:16.59 | L4m3r | are you making one from scratch, or are you fixing that old one that someone made? |
| 03:18.13 | L4m3r | (or was that a relay bot? I forget) |
| 03:18.45 | Slynderdale | L4m3r: From scratch ;p |
| 03:19.08 | L4m3r | using libIRC? |
| 03:20.04 | Slynderdale | L4m3r: Hmm? Its a plugin for an IRC bot called Phergie |
| 03:20.20 | L4m3r | oh, I see |
| 03:20.28 | L4m3r | http://libirc.rg |
| 03:20.30 | L4m3r | er |
| 03:20.34 | L4m3r | http://libirc.org |
| 03:20.42 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@cpe-75-82-214-44.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 03:20.50 | L4m3r | also, #libirc (tho it's empty) |
| 03:22.12 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 03:24.39 | *** join/#bzflag SlynBot (n=SlynBot@pdpc/supporter/base/Slynderdale) |
| 03:24.48 | Slynderdale | L4m3r: Thats my bot ;p |
| 03:24.57 | L4m3r | heh |
| 03:25.08 | L4m3r | how do you interface a PHP bot with a bzflag plug-in? |
| 03:25.23 | Slynderdale | bzplayerlist dub.bzflag.org:5150 |
| 03:25.24 | SlynBot | BZFLAG Error: Incompatible protocol (0026)! |
| 03:25.37 | Slynderdale | Hmm, need to fix that |
| 03:25.41 | Slynderdale | SlynBot: quit |
| 03:26.26 | L4m3r | oh, I see... it's a plug-in for the bot, not bzflag :P |
| 03:26.42 | L4m3r | ~bzfquery bzflag.planet-mofo.com:4200 |
| 03:27.39 | spldart | hrm... mofo |
| 03:28.12 | Slynderdale | L4m3r: I saw bsfquery, the code was so messy and in efficent. I am rewriting it from scratch myself then I plan to fix up the BZFlag plugin that interfaces with IRC. |
| 03:28.58 | Slynderdale | L4m3r: I'm also adding in a way to monitor and administrate the BZFlag server from the plugin as well |
| 03:29.07 | L4m3r | hm |
| 03:29.30 | blast007 | Slynderdale: just note that some of the mess in the PHP was to handle how 2.99.x handles connections now ;) |
| 03:29.51 | blast007 | 2.99.x waits for a string to get passed to it from the client-size |
| 03:29.54 | blast007 | side* |
| 03:30.04 | blast007 | iirc, "BZFLAG\r\n\r\n" |
| 03:30.33 | L4m3r | Slynderdale: I did start a libIRC-based plug-in to interface bzfs with IRC... as of right now it's basically a skeleton |
| 03:30.37 | Slynderdale | blast007: I figured as much by checking over the bzflag source code. |
| 03:31.19 | L4m3r | you can use that as a starting point if you want :P |
| 03:31.47 | L4m3r | I don't think the existing plug-in uses libirc or any other IRC lib |
| 03:36.58 | Slynderdale | L4m3r: I'll take a look, thanks :) |
| 03:40.25 | KTL | everything seems to compile fine with enable-debug except for bzrobots: MessageUtilities.cxx:60: warning: format ‘%lld’ expects type ‘long long int*’, but argument 3 has type ‘intmax_t*’ |
| 03:43.59 | Slynderdale | blast007: Though by the way, in bzfquery, why bzfquery1910 _and_ bzfquery0026? They are completely the same except for the packing format. Its possible to rewrite that entire script using less then half of that code. |
| 03:44.41 | blast007 | agreed, it's not the best |
| 03:45.03 | blast007 | we could probably even ditch 1910 from the code, since that's for 1.10.x servers |
| 03:51.36 | Slynderdale | blast007: Hmm, after I'm done with my code, I'll submit it over at BZFlag. Heres what I use. http://pastebin.com/me228968 I made it painfully easy to update and add protocols as needed. |
| 03:53.07 | Slynderdale | blast007: All you have to do is add 'Proto#' to the list and the code takes it into account. |
| 03:55.29 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal (i=thilo@pdpc/supporter/active/Chestal) |
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| 03:55.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by irc.freenode.net |
| 03:55.39 | L4m3r | whoosh |
| 03:56.25 | *** join/#bzflag F687s_ (n=noah@cpe-71-67-112-44.woh.res.rr.com) |
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| 04:14.17 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16716 10/trunk/bzflag/src/other/Makefile.am: instead, just bypass their dist rules entirely and include the whole shebang for our ares, curl, and freetype subconfigured friends |
| 04:21.10 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16717 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/Makefile.am: hm, wonder if Pimpinella is going to finish this TimerStrategy interface |
| 04:23.07 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16718 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/Makefile.am: more tricksie files missing from the dist |
| 04:39.17 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=18c5fa09@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 04:39.44 | Ride | who here is very good with computers? |
| 04:40.07 | brlcad | I hear ibot is pretty good with computers |
| 04:40.38 | Ride | ok |
| 04:49.58 | Ride- | i bot doesnt make any sense |
| 04:52.58 | Ride- | did you trick me by saying that ibot was smart |
| 04:53.15 | Ride- | cuz all that he does is repeat what i say back to me instantly |
| 04:55.29 | brlcad | maybe she just doesn't like you |
| 04:55.42 | brlcad | or your not asking the right question |
| 04:56.09 | brlcad | but she is *very* good with computers, speaks their language very well |
| 04:56.42 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=18c5fa09@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 04:56.53 | Ride | brclad what was that all about |
| 04:58.18 | Ride | who is ghosting me |
| 04:58.25 | Ride | argggg what is going on |
| 04:58.29 | Ride | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 |
| 04:58.59 | Ride | BRCLAD!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 04:59.10 | brlcad | Ride: stop it |
| 04:59.11 | Ride | *BRLCAD!!!!!!!! |
| 04:59.18 | Ride | what did you do |
| 04:59.27 | brlcad | I haven't done anything |
| 04:59.35 | Ride | who is ghosting me |
| 04:59.46 | Ride | why did you tell me to go to ibot |
| 04:59.58 | brlcad | if someone is ghosting you, then it's because you're using a name that they have registered |
| 05:00.17 | Ride | no i registered that name i was just on as it |
| 05:00.18 | brlcad | I didn't tell you to go to ibot |
| 05:00.25 | Ride | who is he |
| 05:00.29 | brlcad | I said ibot is pretty good with computers |
| 05:00.44 | Ride | he just repeats what i say |
| 05:00.47 | brlcad | ibot is *very* good with computers, speaks their language fluently |
| 05:01.03 | brlcad | maybe you're not asking it the right questions |
| 05:01.04 | Ride | he didnt help me at all |
| 05:01.26 | Constitution | she's pretty hot, too... why don't you ask her out? |
| 05:01.30 | brlcad | you're not guaranteed help from anyone on irc |
| 05:01.47 | Ride | DUDE IM HAVING A PROBLEM WITH MY CPU ITS GOING TO BLUESCREEN AND YOU TELL ME TO GO TO IBOT!! |
| 05:02.05 | brlcad | again, i didn't tell you to go to ibot or to go anywhere |
| 05:02.11 | Ride | wtv |
| 05:02.15 | brlcad | settle down |
| 05:02.20 | Ride | can anyone help me |
| 05:02.45 | brlcad | how can anyone answer that if you've not stated what the problem is or even a question |
| 05:02.52 | Ride | well i wouldnt be so mad if i wasnt told that a cpu wsa good with cpu's |
| 05:03.09 | brlcad | well, it's a truthful statement |
| 05:03.20 | brlcad | and ibot is not a cpu |
| 05:03.34 | brlcad | she's very helpful to those that ask her the right questions |
| 05:03.48 | Ride | problem is blue screen constantly STOP: c000000218 |
| 05:03.56 | Ride | then what is she |
| 05:04.05 | brlcad | don't ask her the right questions and she can be very rude |
| 05:04.13 | brlcad | s/rude/pedantic/ |
| 05:04.30 | Ride | i told you my problem |
| 05:04.45 | Ride | so can you or anyone here help me |
| 05:04.45 | brlcad | at least one of your problems |
| 05:04.52 | brlcad | sounds like a driver problem |
| 05:05.31 | Ride | a lot of posts say that it is an Intell Matrix Drive problem |
| 05:05.49 | Ride | IASTOR.sys |
| 05:06.28 | Ride | do you know what that is |
| 05:06.31 | brlcad | Ride: is there a particular reason that you would expect to be on-topic for #bzflag ? |
| 05:06.35 | brlcad | sounds like a driver file |
| 05:06.47 | brlcad | could try removing it, maybe boot up in safe mode |
| 05:06.49 | brlcad | remove the driver |
| 05:07.08 | brlcad | other than that, you should look for a hardware support forum |
| 05:07.16 | brlcad | not a game channel |
| 05:07.18 | Ride | cpu wont boot it goes straight to that blue screen error everytime |
| 05:07.25 | Ride | they didnt help |
| 05:07.51 | brlcad | others not helping does not make it any more appropriate here |
| 05:07.56 | Ride | anyways i thought you guys might be able to help because you are all very smart when it comes to CPU's |
| 05:08.45 | brlcad | there's tons of things you can try, but it's still off-topic -- you can wait and see if someone's willing to try things with you in private, if you can wait patiently |
| 05:09.37 | Ride1 | how do i register this nick |
| 05:09.47 | Ride1 | cuz someone is on Ride- |
| 05:10.12 | brlcad | you are still on Ride= |
| 05:10.39 | Ride1 | no im not |
| 05:11.11 | brlcad | that's probably why they didn't want to help you |
| 05:11.17 | brlcad | you're not very good at listening |
| 05:11.30 | Ride1 | one sec ill brb |
| 05:11.35 | brlcad | Ride- is still in use by the same connection you're coming from |
| 05:11.47 | brlcad | nobody else |
| 05:12.09 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=18c5fa09@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:12.23 | brlcad | and now there are three of you |
| 05:12.27 | Ride | how |
| 05:12.31 | Ride | im lost lol |
| 05:13.00 | Ride | how do i log off of them |
| 05:13.07 | brlcad | you can't |
| 05:13.09 | Ride | can anyone like /kick them |
| 05:13.15 | Ride | or something |
| 05:13.17 | brlcad | they'll time out eventually |
| 05:13.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 05:13.41 | Ride | yeah but this nick isnt registered so i cant talk though pm |
| 05:14.18 | brlcad | it is registered already |
| 05:14.21 | brlcad | probably to someone else |
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| 05:49.25 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16719 10/trunk/bzflag/src/Makefile.am: include world in the dist even if we don't use it atm |
| 05:50.06 | blast007 | Ride, Ride1, or Ride-: ... if you need me, I'm here now |
| 05:50.41 | blast007 | I wish he'd get a real client... |
| 05:50.55 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16720 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/ (14 files in 13 dirs): slew of dist repairs, mostly files and dirs missing |
| 05:57.48 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-231-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 06:00.23 | JeffM | that's a whole lotta ride |
| 06:01.19 | blast007 | too much for one to handle |
| 06:02.28 | a_meteorite | pimp my ride |
| 06:10.36 | JeffM | brlcad: you have a model viewer where you are? |
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| 06:19.49 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r16721 10/trunk/bzflag/ (12 files in 12 dirs): more source dist repairs |
| 06:20.14 | brlcad | JeffM: possibly |
| 06:20.26 | JeffM | can you view obj? |
| 06:20.32 | JeffM | or lwo? |
| 06:20.59 | brlcad | don't have an obj importer |
| 06:21.11 | brlcad | can you dump to something else? |
| 06:21.35 | JeffM | sure, dxf? |
| 06:21.49 | brlcad | sure |
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| 06:23.36 | JeffM | http://www.opencombat.net/files/geometry/tank_v3.dxf |
| 06:23.40 | JeffM | redid the barrel |
| 06:23.45 | JeffM | and added some other details |
| 06:24.03 | JeffM | gets it close to 1000 faces tho |
| 06:27.18 | brlcad | that looks better |
| 06:27.36 | JeffM | not totaly happy with the sides of the turret |
| 06:27.39 | JeffM | I like the back |
| 06:27.40 | brlcad | you change the hatch too? |
| 06:27.44 | JeffM | yeah |
| 06:27.48 | JeffM | I changed a number of things |
| 06:27.52 | JeffM | tread covers |
| 06:27.54 | JeffM | hatch |
| 06:28.01 | JeffM | turret sides and back |
| 06:28.58 | brlcad | there's a few polygon turds that'd need cleaned up |
| 06:29.10 | JeffM | yeah, it was just a quick bevel on them |
| 06:29.52 | brlcad | the gun looks way better |
| 06:29.56 | JeffM | and a manual tesselation |
| 06:30.07 | JeffM | I'd do the triangulation by hand for a real one |
| 06:30.57 | JeffM | yeah the gun I am more happy with |
| 06:31.14 | JeffM | and I rather like the back of the turret, and the sides of the covers |
| 06:36.19 | brlcad | yeah, the back is pretty cool |
| 06:36.34 | brlcad | http://bzflag.bz/tmp/newtank.png |
| 06:36.34 | JeffM | just had an idea for the turret sides too |
| 06:37.04 | brlcad | no so sure about those sides though |
| 06:37.55 | brlcad | either adding the panel separators or maybe just needs the treads |
| 06:40.55 | brlcad | plus they don't come down far enough if they're supposed to be close to an abrams |
| 06:41.49 | brlcad | the curve where it angles up sharply in the front and rear on the sides is where the drive shafts are -- the armor plating comes down to protect them |
| 06:42.34 | brlcad | almost covers them, maybe 90% which brings the line down to just above the bend |
| 06:43.35 | brlcad | covering about 60% of the side if measured from center |
| 06:46.58 | JeffM | mark up a rendering for me :) |
| 06:49.25 | JeffM | cus for the covers I just drew a line across and went with it :) |
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| 06:52.01 | JeffM | http://www.opencombat.net/files/geometry/tank_v4.dxf |
| 06:52.11 | JeffM | that only has changes to the turret and barrel joint |
| 06:54.28 | brlcad | hmm |
| 06:54.46 | brlcad | I like the two-sectioned barrel much more |
| 06:55.07 | JeffM | oh, bad export |
| 06:55.08 | JeffM | one sec |
| 06:55.14 | JeffM | that has double barrels :) |
| 06:55.19 | JeffM | old and new on top of each other |
| 06:55.21 | brlcad | ah |
| 06:55.31 | JeffM | keep forgeting thats in a layer |
| 06:55.34 | brlcad | gonna say, it also jacked up about 180 poly |
| 06:56.09 | Slynderdale | Well anyone familar with compiling under windows: I compiled a relase version but get a runtime error. R6034 An application has made an attempt to load the C runtime library incorrectly. |
| 06:56.25 | JeffM | reload it, it's now an export to DXF right from lightwave |
| 06:56.27 | JeffM | it may suck |
| 06:56.57 | JeffM | Slynderdale: do you have an external manifest in the same dir? |
| 06:57.00 | brlcad | erm 36 faces.. |
| 06:57.15 | JeffM | ok so lightwave sucks for dxf :) |
| 06:57.18 | brlcad | now *that* autta render hella fast |
| 06:58.07 | brlcad | it only export the tracks |
| 06:58.14 | JeffM | yeah it only did one layer not all |
| 06:58.16 | JeffM | reload again |
| 06:58.25 | JeffM | milkshape dumps all the layers |
| 06:58.41 | brlcad | that's closer 922 |
| 06:58.58 | Slynderdale | JeffM: Thanks, that fixed it ;p |
| 06:59.13 | JeffM | Slynderdale: where did the manifest come from? the installer? |
| 06:59.24 | JeffM | or did you drag the exe into an existing install dir? |
| 07:00.13 | JeffM | brlcad: mostly on that one I'm just concerned wiht the turret sides and the turret -> barrel connection |
| 07:00.40 | Slynderdale | JeffM: Dragged the compiled exe into my install on BZFlag to see if it worked. |
| 07:00.51 | JeffM | Slynderdale: that'd do it |
| 07:00.57 | JeffM | the install you have is made with VC 7.1 |
| 07:01.03 | JeffM | and uses an external manifest |
| 07:01.06 | brlcad | yeah, I'm not sure if I like that barrel connection more or less |
| 07:01.15 | JeffM | as of VC8, the manifest is internal, so you had a confilct |
| 07:01.27 | brlcad | what about a simple cube connection? |
| 07:01.41 | JeffM | the installer that will build installs for VC8 won't install an external manifest |
| 07:01.52 | JeffM | brlcad: just bring a box out to there? and don't blend? |
| 07:02.20 | Slynderdale | JeffM: Hmm, the old executable file still works without the manifest. |
| 07:02.29 | brlcad | JeffM: something like: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1a1-980127-M-4124M-001.jpg |
| 07:02.36 | JeffM | Slynderdale: yeah probably it will |
| 07:02.37 | brlcad | dunno, just thinking |
| 07:02.50 | JeffM | brlcad: maybe |
| 07:03.05 | JeffM | I need to flaten out the top of that turret |
| 07:03.06 | JeffM | it dips down |
| 07:03.10 | brlcad | there you can see how far that plating comes down too |
| 07:03.16 | JeffM | ok |
| 07:03.18 | brlcad | about 60% of the side |
| 07:03.28 | JeffM | I can extend the sides of those covers that's not too hard |
| 07:03.40 | brlcad | looks like it's about 40% now |
| 07:03.58 | brlcad | just not below the bend |
| 07:07.10 | JeffM | more like this? http://www.opencombat.net/files/tankv5_sides.png |
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| 07:11.43 | brlcad | did finally look up the name for the larger bulge on the gun, it's a bore evacuator |
| 07:13.18 | brlcad | yeah, that's better |
| 07:14.56 | JeffM | well getting closer |
| 07:15.02 | JeffM | the back looks rather bland now too |
| 07:15.22 | JeffM | I'm not sure what those 2 boxes on the end are suposed to be |
| 07:15.24 | brlcad | on the side, not a horizontal panel .. vertical ones |
| 07:15.37 | brlcad | like four big panels |
| 07:16.12 | JeffM | oh we can make that look like verticals with the texture ;) |
| 07:16.12 | brlcad | usually just big-arse hardened steel plates |
| 07:16.18 | JeffM | that's easy |
| 07:16.18 | brlcad | k |
| 07:16.39 | JeffM | I mean we ain't modelin every little seam |
| 07:16.49 | JeffM | the bevels will give the major edges a glint with specular |
| 07:16.55 | JeffM | the rest we can do with textures |
| 07:17.03 | JeffM | unless you want a 2k tank |
| 07:17.17 | JeffM | keeping it close to 1k should be fine for many many games |
| 07:17.28 | brlcad | what were we at? |
| 07:17.30 | JeffM | figure an average quake 3 character has 1.2k faces |
| 07:17.40 | JeffM | just under 1k IIRC |
| 07:17.51 | brlcad | ah, then yeah, should be plenty fine |
| 07:17.58 | JeffM | 952 |
| 07:18.07 | brlcad | anything 500-1500 probably |
| 07:18.12 | JeffM | yeah |
| 07:18.26 | JeffM | what do you think about moving the turret back a smidge? |
| 07:18.39 | brlcad | maybe even more realisticly, we're closer to texture limits than poly counts |
| 07:18.42 | JeffM | or is that where it must go? |
| 07:18.47 | brlcad | more likely the map will jack up the polys |
| 07:19.09 | JeffM | heh a single laser with rico on 3.0 has more faces then this tank ;) |
| 07:21.42 | JeffM | one more before I sleep |
| 07:21.43 | JeffM | http://www.opencombat.net/files/geometry/tank_v5_moved_back.dxf |
| 07:21.49 | JeffM | that has the turret moved back just a smidge |
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| 07:44.41 | brlcad | somewhere in-between, more important that the pivot circle is square centered on the "box" base |
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| 10:25.01 | utrrrongeeb | Can a tank drive up a slope without having to jump? |
| 10:31.13 | utrrrongeeb | I mean, can you get it to drive up an object at a slope, rather than having to jump? |
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| 17:46.17 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03timriker * r16722 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/ (65 files in 13 dirs): gcc 4.3 warnings, eek! some && and || changes |
| 17:49.21 | Lukstr | JeffM: ping |
| 17:51.50 | JeffM | Lukstr, sup? |
| 17:54.23 | Lukstr | ah hi. I've never played BZFlag before but heard of it. I'm a student looking to participate in GSoC |
| 17:54.28 | JeffM | cool |
| 17:55.42 | JeffM | what kind of programing are you interested in? |
| 17:56.42 | Lukstr | pretty much anything, but I'm most experienced in C |
| 17:57.00 | JeffM | any specifc part of the game that interestes you? |
| 17:57.17 | JeffM | since for soc you'll have to submit a proposal |
| 17:57.21 | JeffM | for what you want to do |
| 17:57.59 | Lukstr | JeffM: Righto, not entirely sure yet (reading stuff on the bzflag site right now), I'll definitely have to give the game a whirl before coming up with a proposal |
| 17:58.15 | JeffM | a wise idea |
| 17:58.21 | JeffM | what OS are you on? |
| 17:58.41 | Lukstr | I've done some OpenGL stuff before (Demos, fractals, a racing game, nothing incredibly interactive) and am currently writing a small game engine for practice |
| 17:58.47 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=d15eb0f9@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:58.54 | JeffM | fun |
| 17:58.58 | Lukstr | Currently on WinXP but run Slax, Ubuntu and OpenBSD elsewhere |
| 17:59.11 | JeffM | we have premade bins for XP so trying the game is very easy |
| 17:59.28 | Lukstr | Alright, I'll check it out |
| 17:59.42 | Lukstr | I don't do much development on windows, |
| 17:59.58 | JeffM | we build on liinux too ;) |
| 18:00.02 | Lukstr | at the very least stuff should natively work in msys/mingw |
| 18:00.05 | JeffM | windows is just usualy the fastest way tol try the game |
| 18:00.12 | Lukstr | :) |
| 18:00.27 | JeffM | techincaly you can build with mingw, it's not how we build the windows bins |
| 18:00.43 | JeffM | I'm not sure if anyone has tried mingw in a while |
| 18:00.54 | Lukstr | I avoid MSVS like the plague, so :P |
| 18:00.59 | JeffM | with the advent of the free MS compilers is a lot simpler to build on windows using them |
| 18:01.04 | JeffM | your choice |
| 18:01.16 | Lukstr | and I'm a die-hard, I avoid most IDEs so I kind of prefer mingw over others |
| 18:01.28 | JeffM | we use MSVC to build all the windows versions |
| 18:01.49 | JeffM | you can have my ide when you pry it from my cold dead hands ;) |
| 18:01.53 | Lukstr | Well I probably won't bother trying to build :P |
| 18:01.54 | Lukstr | haha |
| 18:01.55 | JeffM | but to each there own |
| 18:01.58 | Lukstr | vi ++ ;) |
| 18:02.15 | JeffM | I find gdb very hard to use |
| 18:02.41 | JeffM | but no mater, we build on linux quite easaly, as well as the mac |
| 18:03.08 | JeffM | so we can work with whatever flavor users want |
| 18:03.18 | Lukstr | that's good |
| 18:03.31 | CIA-26 | BZFlag: 03timriker * r16723 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/ (874 files in 39 dirs): 2008 |
| 18:03.42 | Lukstr | so you have one universal client code base, essentially? |
| 18:03.51 | JeffM | TimRiker, gotta do another debian build? |
| 18:03.58 | JeffM | Lukstr, yes |
| 18:04.08 | JeffM | there are some platform specific sections but it's all part of the same project |
| 18:04.11 | Lukstr | JeffM: I like that |
| 18:04.39 | JeffM | we have to maintain a couple build systems, makefiles, xcode, and MSVC proejcts, but it's not too hard |
| 18:04.59 | Lukstr | many different client projects tend to make things a bit disorganised so I'm very happy with one. |
| 18:05.18 | JeffM | well I'd not say we are the pinacle of orginisation but we get by |
| 18:05.35 | TimRiker | JeffM: pondering one yeah. there's an open gcc-4.3 build issue. Mostly sprinkling string.h around. |
| 18:05.58 | JeffM | TimRiker, what is current in debian now? .10 or .8? |
| 18:06.13 | TimRiker | ~dinfo bzflag |
| 18:07.30 | JeffM | that is indeed some lag |
| 18:07.42 | TimRiker | it had to update all the package files first. |
| 18:07.48 | TimRiker | ~dinfo bzflag/etch |
| 18:07.48 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:08.03 | TimRiker | hmm. I forget that syntax... |
| 18:08.43 | JeffM | yay, one more VMM and then I can go back to seting up the bzflag store :) |
| 18:09.48 | whodaman- | hm, I wish freenode would finally verify the Bzflag project |
| 18:10.25 | JeffM | why? |
| 18:10.56 | whodaman- | JeffM, because then the staffers could set cloaks for us :) If TimRiker authorizes it, that is |
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| 18:11.17 | JeffM | what does tim have to do? |
| 18:11.20 | TimRiker | ~dinfo bzflag etch |
| 18:11.23 | JeffM | and have you asked him to do it? ;) |
| 18:11.29 | JeffM | asking is always good |
| 18:11.29 | whodaman- | indeed |
| 18:11.43 | JeffM | have you bugged him incessently? ;) |
| 18:11.46 | whodaman- | freenode just takes forever to verify projects |
| 18:11.50 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:11.51 | TimRiker | I've made the request, we're just in the long queue |
| 18:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=d15eb0f9@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:12.09 | whodaman- | Yeah, although christel said she thought we'd already be a verified project |
| 18:12.13 | JeffM | then whodaman- have you bugged sportchick to user her super powers to move it forward? ;) |
| 18:12.23 | whodaman- | I tried |
| 18:12.32 | JeffM | then it's just wait time |
| 18:12.39 | JeffM | it's just a cloak no biggie |
| 18:12.54 | JeffM | I mean it's not as cool as a real sikscreened t-shirt! |
| 18:13.08 | whodaman- | Jan 24 22:14:06 <SportChick>whodaman-: 1. I can only discuss that with timriker, if he registered, 2. cloaks are only available if the project manager wants to provide them |
| 18:13.24 | whodaman- | By that time he had done that |
| 18:13.26 | whodaman- | which I explained |
| 18:13.26 | whodaman- | Jan 24 22:17:26 <SportChick>there is a process for verifying the GCF |
| 18:13.27 | whodaman- | Jan 24 22:17:53 <SportChick>AFTER that is complete, then the only person who can request cloaks is the grou |
| 18:13.31 | JeffM | then you wait |
| 18:13.32 | whodaman- | :) |
| 18:13.34 | whodaman- | indeed |
| 18:14.03 | Ride- | hi all |
| 18:14.07 | whodaman- | hi |
| 18:14.12 | JeffM | I mean if it was a real silkscreened t-shirt I could totaly understand the rush |
| 18:14.14 | JeffM | hello Ride- |
| 18:14.26 | Ride- | hey |
| 18:14.33 | Ride- | hows it going |
| 18:14.59 | TimRiker | hehe shirts? where are the shirts? |
| 18:15.03 | Ride- | ive completely finalized my map now and i even have groups |
| 18:15.12 | JeffM | TimRiker, they are in the design phase |
| 18:15.17 | JeffM | the store is setup |
| 18:15.17 | TimRiker | :) |
| 18:15.26 | whodaman- | JeffM, has Winny been working on them a bit? |
| 18:15.27 | JeffM | http://store.bzflag.bz |
| 18:15.34 | Ride- | hey you made ibot didnt you Tim |
| 18:15.35 | JeffM | whodaman-, I don't think he has |
| 18:15.39 | whodaman- | ah ok |
| 18:15.51 | Ride- | thats sweet how it replies instantly |
| 18:15.51 | JeffM | I'll be trying some more desings this weekend, with the new tank |
| 18:16.18 | JeffM | I hope saturos can make some designs as well when he returns |
| 18:16.37 | ts | He comes back at 8th |
| 18:16.50 | JeffM | cool |
| 18:17.46 | ts | whodaman-: You want a bzflag cloak? |
| 18:17.54 | whodaman- | ts, why not? ;) |
| 18:17.58 | Ride- | i do |
| 18:18.06 | ts | whodaman-: I'm interested in one, too. |
| 18:18.06 | Ride- | what is it |
| 18:18.15 | ts | whodaman-: What do I have to do? |
| 18:18.18 | whodaman- | ts, wait |
| 18:18.23 | whodaman- | It's currently not possible |
| 18:18.33 | whodaman- | Ride-, how can you want something without knowing what it is? ;) |
| 18:18.51 | whodaman- | ts but something like "n=ts@bzflag/developer/ts" would be cool |
| 18:18.57 | Ride- | idk sounds interesting |
| 18:19.16 | ts | whodaman-: yeah ;) |
| 18:19.30 | whodaman- | And you never will, Ri... |
| 18:19.30 | whodaman- | ok |
| 18:19.39 | ts | heh, those cgi:irc users are funny |
| 18:19.49 | ts | They made my day so many times :) |
| 18:20.07 | whodaman- | heh |
| 18:20.13 | JeffM | be nice |
| 18:20.42 | whodaman- | naturally |
| 18:20.57 | ts | Well, wanting something without even knowing what it is is funny, isn't it? |
| 18:21.05 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-141-158-100-191.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:21.24 | JeffM | he's young, and wants to fit in so very much. that's all |
| 18:21.57 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Ups@i59F7C896.versanet.de) |
| 18:22.03 | whodaman- | ts, it'll be another couple of months before freenode does anything, I assume |
| 18:22.27 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-204-43-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 18:22.30 | ts | whodaman-: ok |
| 18:22.39 | JeffM | in the grand lifetime of bzflag, that is but a blip ;) |
| 18:23.46 | whodaman- | hehe |
| 18:23.50 | whodaman- | well. depends |
| 18:24.23 | JeffM | how old is bzflag? |
| 18:25.13 | ts | 1992? |
| 18:25.41 | JeffM | TimRiker, when we do the print run, we'll be able to do special one offs of other things if you are interested in one. I know we are doing at least 3 hoodies in addtion to the 50 shirt print run. |
| 18:25.51 | JeffM | ts, and what year is it now? ;) |
| 18:27.06 | whodaman- | 2008, iirc |
| 18:27.16 | ts | JeffM: Depends on calendar :) |
| 18:27.20 | JeffM | so, 16 years |
| 18:27.25 | JeffM | lets say 15 years |
| 18:27.33 | JeffM | 180 months |
| 18:28.24 | JeffM | each month is less then 1/2 of a % of our lifetime, so waiting a couple more months to get it setup is a blip ;) |
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| 18:34.45 | TimRiker | JeffM: 1993 |
| 18:35.16 | TimRiker | JeffM: cool. I'd like to see the design, and probably pick up a shirt. |
| 18:35.42 | Dessy | hm can anyone help me? how can i give 2 users perms to one folder? |
| 18:37.42 | SportChick | whodaman-: it's not polite to paste a private converation without asking permission :) |
| 18:47.15 | JeffM | TimRiker, ohh yah the design will float around before we pick it ;) |
| 18:47.48 | TimRiker | "Pimp my Tank" is in the running? :) |
| 18:47.59 | JeffM | no, it wasn't |
| 18:48.05 | TimRiker | hehe. just kidding. |
| 18:48.10 | Erroneous | heh |
| 18:48.13 | JeffM | I think the intial idea was to have it just with bzflag and a logo :) |
| 18:48.20 | JeffM | but hey, for a second round, I'd totaly do it |
| 18:48.45 | JeffM | TimRiker, we will use the money we get from it, to make multiple runs, and I have 0 problem changing out designs :) |
| 18:48.59 | JeffM | we only have a minium of 18 items per run |
| 18:49.14 | JeffM | more designs means more reasons for people to buy another shirt :) |
| 18:49.19 | TimRiker | :) |
| 18:49.42 | JeffM | eventlay I'd like to do ether football(socker) or baseball shirts with the various team colors |
| 18:51.11 | JeffM | have to do one more revision of the CD label too, then we'll have CDs to sell |
| 18:51.22 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 18:54.13 | Lukstr | I just got destroyed hard :( |
| 18:54.31 | JeffM | that can happen |
| 18:56.36 | Lukstr | JeffM: So what kinds of BZFlag projects AREN'T you looking for (i.e. new clients) ? |
| 18:57.26 | JeffM | well major game changes |
| 18:57.41 | JeffM | and large scale projects that have no chance of being finished |
| 18:57.56 | JeffM | I don't get what you mean by "new clients" tho |
| 18:59.37 | Lukstr | well you guys seem to have just the one client. I assume you're not really looking for more? |
| 18:59.51 | JeffM | why would we want more then one? |
| 18:59.57 | Lukstr | exactly, just saying |
| 19:00.15 | Lukstr | Look at thousandparsec, they have many many clients |
| 19:00.24 | JeffM | well they are a difrent kind of thing |
| 19:00.28 | *** join/#bzflag _anomaly_ (n=mike@h7.100.91.75.ip.alltel.net) |
| 19:00.36 | JeffM | they support more then one type of game |
| 19:00.44 | JeffM | they are a game framework, or game engine |
| 19:00.47 | JeffM | we are a single game |
| 19:00.49 | JeffM | not an engine |
| 19:00.54 | JeffM | we are more like quake |
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| 19:02.27 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-079-248.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 19:02.36 | JeffM | Lukstr, have you seen the ideas list on our wiki? |
| 19:05.36 | Lukstr | yup |
| 19:06.39 | *** join/#bzflag awilcox (n=4c1a007b@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 19:06.49 | awilcox | tannerld: ping |
| 19:07.14 | *** join/#bzflag Wyk3d (n=Wyk3d@lns-bzn-47f-81-56-254-111.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 19:10.02 | JeffM | Lukstr, the big thing I'd like to see would be the BZWorkBench enhancements. |
| 19:10.08 | JeffM | that would be the bigest help to us |
| 19:11.01 | Lukstr | JeffM: is it publicly available? |
| 19:11.08 | JeffM | everything we do is |
| 19:11.15 | JeffM | it's all in subversion |
| 19:11.24 | Lukstr | JeffM: Where can I download it? |
| 19:11.43 | JeffM | do you have any experience with subversion or other source controll systems? |
| 19:11.48 | awilcox | ~bzsvn |
| 19:11.49 | ibot | methinks bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 19:12.08 | Lukstr | JeffM: Yes |
| 19:12.23 | JeffM | bzworkbench is in our svn repository |
| 19:12.49 | JeffM | https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzworkbench |
| 19:12.52 | Lukstr | do you have a websvn |
| 19:12.53 | Lukstr | ah |
| 19:13.03 | JeffM | we use sourceforge |
| 19:13.06 | JeffM | they have a viewsvn |
| 19:13.08 | Lukstr | Oh |
| 19:13.13 | JeffM | but you'd need a client to get it all |
| 19:13.15 | Lukstr | that hurts me, a little bit |
| 19:13.27 | Lukstr | but I won't let it get to me |
| 19:13.47 | JeffM | if you want to work with us on SoC, we will expect you to use subversion |
| 19:13.51 | JeffM | on a daily basis |
| 19:13.58 | JeffM | all our code goes thru that |
| 19:14.31 | JeffM | there are good svn clients for all the OSs |
| 19:14.37 | Lukstr | yup, checking out all the code right now |
| 19:14.52 | JeffM | you'll also need OSG and FLTK to build it |
| 19:14.53 | Lukstr | I've used several SVN/git type things before |
| 19:14.56 | Lukstr | ok |
| 19:15.47 | Lukstr | do you guys like OSG? |
| 19:15.52 | Lukstr | (i'm assuming so) |
| 19:16.00 | JeffM | the author of BZWB did |
| 19:16.07 | JeffM | that is the only place it is used |
| 19:16.23 | JeffM | it did what he needed it to do |
| 19:16.46 | Lukstr | Oh |
| 19:16.52 | JeffM | personaly I would not choose to use it for the client |
| 19:16.59 | Lukstr | I'm currently writing my own sg |
| 19:17.04 | Lukstr | for fun |
| 19:17.10 | JeffM | it dosn't give us enough benifit over our current code. |
| 19:17.17 | Lukstr | yeah that's what I thought |
| 19:17.36 | JeffM | I would rather go with something like ogre, that gets us a lot more features for the work |
| 19:18.03 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 19:18.04 | Lukstr | BZflag's not that intense, you could just write it from the ground up |
| 19:18.13 | JeffM | it does that now |
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| 19:18.20 | Lukstr | well that seems fine to me |
| 19:18.44 | JeffM | well the point is we want more features with out having to write them, to make it better :) |
| 19:18.56 | JeffM | the less graphics code we have to maintain, the more time we can spend on the game part |
| 19:19.08 | Lukstr | right |
| 19:19.20 | JeffM | basicly leveraging the work of others, thats the point of open source |
| 19:19.52 | Lukstr | as I don't feel like switching to ubuntu right now (doing some other stuff) I'll give bzwb a compile later, |
| 19:20.05 | Lukstr | just want to look around at the source |
| 19:20.14 | JeffM | it is not the simplest thing to build:) |
| 19:20.19 | JeffM | thats why it needs the most help |
| 19:20.29 | awilcox | Lukstr: BZWB compiles fine with Visual C++ if you have that, without switching to a UNIX based system. (I can help if ya want.) |
| 19:20.37 | Lukstr | awilcox: do not have it |
| 19:20.38 | JeffM | awilcox, he does not |
| 19:20.52 | awilcox | Okay. |
| 19:21.04 | Lukstr | sweet, co complete |
| 19:21.20 | JeffM | OSG has a wierd build system on windows, but we have a set of premade libs for it |
| 19:21.39 | Lukstr | cool, I'm not going to worry much about building on windows right now though |
| 19:21.41 | Lukstr | too much of a pita |
| 19:21.44 | JeffM | I know |
| 19:22.16 | JeffM | well our trunk version of BZ is actualy simpler to build on windows then linux ;) |
| 19:22.21 | Lukstr | hah |
| 19:22.26 | JeffM | one keystroke |
| 19:22.40 | JeffM | but thats cus we have it setup to build most of the dependencies |
| 19:22.48 | JeffM | it's not that hard on linux ether |
| 19:22.52 | Lukstr | the most portability I'll guarantee is with gcc/g++ on windows, beyond that I'm not really motivated |
| 19:22.58 | JeffM | if you have the deps it's like 4 commands. |
| 19:23.03 | Lukstr | sweet |
| 19:23.30 | JeffM | tho trunk may not build on linux right now cus bzrobots is busted. |
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| 19:26.00 | tannerld | awilcox: pong |
| 19:27.08 | Lukstr | what sort of state is BZWB in right now? |
| 19:36.43 | SpazzyMcGee | Lukstr: I'm fairly sure it's mostly just the GUI that needs doing. |
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| 19:47.08 | brlcad | Lukstr: depending on your background, there are also several non-graphical projects that would be good to work on as well |
| 19:48.12 | brlcad | you were also talking to the main windows guy so of course he thinks the windows setup is easiest :) |
| 19:48.22 | Lukstr | I don't really have a specific background. |
| 19:48.26 | Lukstr | brlcad: hah! |
| 19:48.43 | Lukstr | I imagine ;) |
| 19:48.53 | *** join/#bzflag andrecastelo (n=pulse@189.71.47.14) |
| 19:49.07 | brlcad | but that's just pointless flametalk ;) |
| 19:49.18 | brlcad | Lukstr: what sorts of things interest you? |
| 19:49.33 | Lukstr | I don't even know where to begin |
| 19:49.39 | andrecastelo | good afternoon everyone |
| 19:49.47 | Lukstr | most things? |
| 19:50.04 | brlcad | the ideas we listed are some that have been discussed heavily in the pasts or are current priorities, improving the integration of last year's projects are certainly high on the list just so they don't rot |
| 19:50.35 | brlcad | well if you don't know what you like, do you at least know what you don't like? :) |
| 19:51.27 | Winny | whodaman-, no, I've been working on the site |
| 19:51.44 | Winny | brlcad: nice comment to Ride yesterday :P |
| 19:51.45 | whodaman- | Winny, I thought you might have been doing tshirts too |
| 19:53.18 | brlcad | Winny: who me? I'm innocent I swear. |
| 19:53.47 | Winny | :) |
| 19:54.44 | JeffM | mmmm burito |
| 19:55.09 | tannerld | Winny: run! |
| 19:55.14 | Winny | naa |
| 19:55.18 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 19:55.27 | JeffM2501 | do we have to do this again ;) |
| 19:56.03 | Winny | ;p |
| 19:57.43 | JeffM2501 | bastards forgot the sour cream |
| 19:57.54 | whodaman- | :O |
| 19:58.07 | Winny | ban them! |
| 19:58.25 | JeffM2501 | I'll just go to chipotle instead |
| 19:58.38 | Lukstr | brlcad: I don't like spending weeks figuring out somebody elses inane code :( |
| 19:59.17 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, then open source may not be fore you |
| 19:59.31 | JeffM2501 | that's one aspect of colbaorative development that you have to deal wiht |
| 19:59.40 | Lukstr | JeffM2501: Now now, there's plenty of good code out there :P |
| 19:59.55 | JeffM2501 | but you don't know where it will be |
| 20:00.05 | JeffM2501 | so no mater what, you have to dig thru crap |
| 20:00.17 | JeffM2501 | and often rewrite it |
| 20:00.24 | Lukstr | I'd prefer rewriting it :P |
| 20:00.39 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure you do |
| 20:00.39 | awilcox | Lukstr: How can you rewrite it if you don't even know what it does? |
| 20:00.46 | JeffM2501 | but that may not always be the best way to get your goal |
| 20:00.50 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 20:01.22 | Lukstr | awilcox: if I don't know what it does why would I be looking at it in the first place? :P |
| 20:01.35 | JeffM2501 | if you expect to be a programer on any sort of large project you will have to deal with code from others, regardless of how good you feel it is. |
| 20:01.49 | Erroneous | not everything is so simple that you know what it does just by using it |
| 20:01.52 | Lukstr | JeffM2501: I am well aware, I've worked as part of large projects before |
| 20:01.53 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, many reasons, trying to find a bug, trying to see if it affects yoru code. |
| 20:01.57 | tannerld | awilcox: why you ping me? :P |
| 20:01.59 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, such as? |
| 20:02.10 | brlcad | Lukstr: most devs prefer rewriting than digging through, but dealing with other people's code in a way other than "oh, it's all crap" is the only way to collaborate effectively |
| 20:02.11 | Lukstr | Nothing open source, so I don't know if you'd have heard of it |
| 20:02.18 | JeffM2501 | how many people? |
| 20:02.22 | Lukstr | 200 |
| 20:02.41 | JeffM2501 | a comercial product? |
| 20:02.44 | Lukstr | yep |
| 20:02.48 | JeffM2501 | what one? |
| 20:03.16 | Lukstr | as part of the SDK team of http://psionteklogix.com/ |
| 20:03.20 | brlcad | especially since a lot of code is only "crappy" because you don't understand it, because you didn't write it .. and would be just as crappy to someone else in your position when you write it |
| 20:03.49 | Lukstr | everyone: I think you misunderstand; by "crappy" I mean unreadable, uncommented, hungarian notation, utter garbage |
| 20:03.52 | brlcad | learning to read (and appreciate) and understand other people's code quickly is very important |
| 20:03.58 | JeffM2501 | Lukstr, and what did you do for them? new code or fix stuff in old code? |
| 20:04.03 | Lukstr | Both, JeffM2501 |
| 20:04.36 | awilcox | Hungarian notation is not "crappy", though I don't know what bzflag's stance on it is. |
| 20:04.42 | awilcox | tannerld: pm? |
| 20:04.49 | JeffM2501 | we generaly don't use it in BZ |
| 20:04.50 | brlcad | Lukstr: ah, well that sense of "crappy" is just developer preferences -- you should read our DEVINFO file and make sure our rules are sufficiently in-line with your taste then |
| 20:05.04 | Erroneous | awilcox: I prefer the term "hungarian line noise" but that's just me |
| 20:05.10 | brlcad | as those are rules you would have to abide by for gsoc regardless |
| 20:05.18 | awilcox | Erroneous: haha :) |
| 20:05.27 | Lukstr | I had to fix a bunch of Perl scripts and a few libraries in C++, but I ended up rewriting the Perl script because it was insane (another coop student wrote it, it was something like 10000 lines, I rewrote it in 120), umm what else |
| 20:05.35 | Lukstr | Erroneous: I love that |
| 20:05.53 | Lukstr | brlcad: I have no problem following a spec or coding guidelines |
| 20:06.00 | Erroneous | it's not original to me...don't remember where I got it. just seemed appropriate :) |
| 20:06.20 | Lukstr | Erroneous: it's fabulous and I will pull it on my 70 yo prof next time he gives us code |
| 20:06.26 | Erroneous | haha |
| 20:06.33 | brlcad | Lukstr: well if the guidelines said I had to use double-tab indents, hungarian notation, and gnu indent style, I'd have a problem with it :) |
| 20:06.37 | iJeffM | Lukstr, well most of the projects in bzflag will involve using and modifying existing code. |
| 20:06.50 | Lukstr | iJeffM: I imagine |
| 20:06.54 | brlcad | yeah, most are extensions and improvements |
| 20:07.00 | iJeffM | Lukstr, I know ;) |
| 20:07.11 | Lukstr | If you guys want to know what I mean by awful code: http://www.cis.uoguelph.ca/~dobo/3110-Lotto.Player.c |
| 20:07.12 | iJeffM | we arn't going for any project that are just "go off and do a thing" this year |
| 20:07.19 | Erroneous | some of our existing code is quite good. some was quite good 15 years ago, but has rotted and/or become obsolete. some is just bad. it's a mix :) |
| 20:07.50 | Lukstr | Everyone: Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with many of the things you're all saying (so fast!) |
| 20:08.00 | brlcad | you started it :) |
| 20:08.11 | iJeffM | tis the nature of IRC |
| 20:08.15 | iJeffM | that code dosn't look so bad |
| 20:08.21 | iJeffM | looks a lot like BZ code |
| 20:08.24 | brlcad | yeah, I can tell almost immediately what it's doing |
| 20:08.38 | L4m3r | imho, a lot of the klunkiness in the code is the mixture of C and C++ styles |
| 20:08.38 | iJeffM | I'd put some newlines in it that'd about it |
| 20:08.47 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (i=user@88-108-245-203.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:08.47 | brlcad | aside from the k&r prototypes, and a few indent mistakes |
| 20:08.58 | Lukstr | what's it do, then? |
| 20:09.05 | iJeffM | tannerld, I know I am |
| 20:09.17 | Erroneous | not the best variable names |
| 20:09.44 | awilcox | Yeah I don't really like K&R prototypes either. And the indents would drive me up the wall. |
| 20:09.47 | iJeffM | it's not great code, but it would not be unmaintainable |
| 20:09.59 | brlcad | looks like an exercise in using the sysv shared memory api to implement a lottery/betting system |
| 20:10.00 | iJeffM | it's defenatly something I coudl see in a project |
| 20:10.12 | Lukstr | brlcad: pretty much |
| 20:10.29 | Lukstr | However I didn't use any of that and completely reimplemented it |
| 20:10.47 | iJeffM | and was that your goal? |
| 20:10.51 | iJeffM | to reimplment it? |
| 20:10.58 | iJeffM | or was your goal to exend it? |
| 20:11.02 | iJeffM | extend |
| 20:11.05 | Lukstr | No, goal was to write a program that implements a lottery system using shared memory |
| 20:11.06 | brlcad | yeah, if the goal was a class assignment, you should be implementing it from scratch |
| 20:11.36 | Lukstr | brlcad: the prof gave us that code as a "starting point" |
| 20:11.46 | Lukstr | regardless, I'm not trying to get into an argument with all of you |
| 20:11.47 | JeffM | if the goal was to extend it, you'd have to weight the time to mod it. |
| 20:11.52 | brlcad | that's not really a starting point if that was the only goal |
| 20:11.53 | Lukstr | I was just asked what I didn't like |
| 20:12.07 | Lukstr | brlcad: yeah |
| 20:12.12 | awilcox | My idea of good-looking code (of course, pulled from my own code.) -> http://awos.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/awos/trunk/src/kernel/mm/free.c?revision=348&view=markup |
| 20:12.14 | brlcad | I have to imagine there were more requirements/steps |
| 20:12.16 | JeffM | so do any of the ideas interst you? |
| 20:12.37 | Lukstr | just a sec |
| 20:12.39 | Erroneous | if you're familiar with the game, you're welcome to come up with your own ideas too |
| 20:12.49 | Lukstr | Erroneous: just played my first game about an hour ago |
| 20:13.09 | Lukstr | awilcox: code's pretty sexy |
| 20:13.10 | Erroneous | well, you still have a month or two to get addicted before the application process starts ;) |
| 20:13.28 | JeffM | yeah we probalby havent' even applied yet ;) |
| 20:13.36 | Lukstr | Erroneous: hehe. I got my ass kicked |
| 20:13.55 | Erroneous | multiplayer games can be harsh to newbies ;) |
| 20:13.58 | brlcad | there's things that can happen on the graphics side, the game engine client side, the server side, networking, and AI come to mind |
| 20:14.08 | brlcad | on and list and web services |
| 20:14.08 | Lukstr | wait so who was supporting hungarian notation earlier |
| 20:14.10 | brlcad | s/on/oh/ |
| 20:14.12 | JeffM | and the tools |
| 20:14.16 | andrecastelo | i tend to put the { right after the if expression, is that considered wrong or ugly ? |
| 20:14.18 | awilcox | Lukstr: thank you. and I still suck after at least a year of practice on most maps, takes dedication :) |
| 20:14.18 | JeffM | don't forget the tools |
| 20:14.24 | brlcad | what tools? |
| 20:14.31 | JeffM | bzworkbench |
| 20:14.32 | brlcad | bzwb? |
| 20:14.33 | JeffM | tools |
| 20:14.36 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:14.43 | Lukstr | andrecastelo: no, preferences. Some devs swear by it. |
| 20:14.44 | brlcad | yeah, I think of that as graphics side for some reason |
| 20:14.49 | JeffM | it's more then that |
| 20:14.55 | brlcad | it is, but that's how I think of it ;) |
| 20:14.58 | JeffM | heh |
| 20:15.00 | awilcox | andrecastelo: I don't like them, and I encourage my project's devs to not use it, but for your project it's fine. |
| 20:15.09 | Erroneous | andrecastelo: I prefer that style (and it is in DEVINFO). some like having the braces match indentation. |
| 20:15.20 | brlcad | since bzwb could just as easily be entirely embedded into the client as a world editor |
| 20:15.32 | JeffM | and I'm just lazy |
| 20:15.37 | Lukstr | I used to do it on the same line as the expression, but I eventually realised which was better ;) |
| 20:15.40 | JeffM | one day... one day I'll get it all BSD ;) |
| 20:16.00 | awilcox | Doesn't BSD use K&R prototyping though? :p |
| 20:16.11 | JeffM | Ijust want the brackets |
| 20:16.26 | andrecastelo | Lukstr, awilcox, Erroneous - something like this ? http://pastebin.com/m7f2ee7b9 |
| 20:16.27 | JeffM | at least I can do the bz spacing now |
| 20:16.27 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@musictech.MUSC.CWRU.Edu) |
| 20:16.32 | Erroneous | JeffM likes brackets on their own lines. I think it's a waste of space :) |
| 20:16.36 | JeffM | ibot DTRemenak ++ |
| 20:16.45 | Lukstr | andrecastelo: What are you asking? |
| 20:16.46 | brlcad | andrecastelo: yeah, I prefer on the same line as well, but it's such a minor minor issue once you read enough code in both |
| 20:17.15 | JeffM | bold locals is my new favorite formating thing |
| 20:17.25 | brlcad | bold locals? |
| 20:17.26 | Lukstr | The only real issues I have with code is ambiguity, so as long as you code unambiguously, it's great |
| 20:17.40 | awilcox | andrecastelo: I posted a revision showing how I would right the same code |
| 20:17.43 | Erroneous | JeffM: that is totally cool, I have to admit |
| 20:18.02 | Erroneous | brlcad: JeffM is using a plugin that allows visual differences between different scopes of variables |
| 20:18.11 | Lukstr | awilcox: why is there a semi-colon on line 6? |
| 20:18.14 | JeffM | it bolds the local vars |
| 20:18.17 | brlcad | Erroneous: ahh |
| 20:18.21 | JeffM | it's quite handy |
| 20:18.34 | awilcox | Lukstr: that's how I write code. semi-colons everywhere. did I miss the one at the end of the while()? I think I did =/ |
| 20:18.38 | JeffM | I'm sure other editors can do the same thing |
| 20:18.44 | awilcox | blah, I did. |
| 20:18.45 | brlcad | i can't say that I've ever recognized that as an issue :) |
| 20:18.46 | Lukstr | awilcox: you frighten me |
| 20:19.08 | awilcox | Lukstr: you should see my use of parens, one guy calls me the only person that combines C and LISP :P |
| 20:19.09 | tannerld | Lukstr: be very afraid |
| 20:19.31 | brlcad | yeah, emacs font-lock-mode just highlights everything for me, so I'm probably already using it and just don't think about it |
| 20:20.11 | Lukstr | does anyone here not use an IDE? |
| 20:20.18 | brlcad | is emacs an ide? |
| 20:20.20 | andrecastelo | me |
| 20:20.22 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:20.23 | JeffM | a number of people don't |
| 20:20.30 | brlcad | emacs is a religion ;) |
| 20:20.40 | Erroneous | is bash an ide? :) |
| 20:20.42 | Lukstr | brlcad: I'm not a big fan of religions ;) |
| 20:20.57 | andrecastelo | at the university i use plain vim or some text editor with the terminal |
| 20:21.07 | Lukstr | andrecastelo: you and me both |
| 20:21.16 | awilcox | Lukstr: I use the best IDE around, a command line :P |
| 20:21.20 | JeffM | do you use a debuger? or lots of printf? |
| 20:21.22 | andrecastelo | at home i use dev c++ (windows yay t_t ) |
| 20:21.31 | Lukstr | Me? |
| 20:21.34 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:21.36 | Lukstr | gdb |
| 20:21.38 | andrecastelo | JeffM: i use lots of printf or couts |
| 20:21.43 | awilcox | Lukstr: vim/make are my friends on *nix, Notepad++ and mingw32-make are my friends on Windows |
| 20:21.48 | awilcox | outportb(base_addr + PORT_ATAPI_DRIVE, (0xE0 | (drive << 4) | ((lba_address >> 24) & 0x0F))); |
| 20:21.52 | awilcox | ^ Parens! |
| 20:21.52 | JeffM | well there is at least one saving grace for you Lukstr ;) |
| 20:21.54 | brlcad | using pico or nano is just a sign of developer inexperience imho |
| 20:22.04 | Lukstr | awilcox: win32: mingw32-make, vim :) |
| 20:22.16 | JeffM | hey I like nano |
| 20:22.20 | JeffM | for editing configs |
| 20:22.25 | brlcad | I mean for coding |
| 20:22.28 | brlcad | long term |
| 20:22.29 | awilcox | Lukstr: they have vim for Win32? last I knew they only had WinVim or something, and that was kinda sucky. |
| 20:22.32 | JeffM | oh yeah that'd be horible |
| 20:22.37 | Lukstr | awilcox: they sure do, it's sweet |
| 20:22.44 | awilcox | nice |
| 20:22.56 | JeffM | brlcad, I'll bet I'm the only user of nano on .bz ;) |
| 20:22.58 | Lukstr | awilcox: I type `vi -g -p *.c *.h Makefile` |
| 20:23.08 | brlcad | JeffM: probably |
| 20:23.20 | awilcox | Lukstr: I edit Makefiles by hand. |
| 20:23.32 | Lukstr | awilcox: so do I |
| 20:23.34 | Lukstr | wait |
| 20:23.34 | JeffM | brlcad, ok so we like the new tank barrel right? |
| 20:23.35 | Lukstr | lol |
| 20:23.43 | JeffM | how did you like the turret sides? |
| 20:23.51 | JeffM | ahh yeah go finish |
| 20:23.53 | brlcad | JeffM: yeah, liked the barrel, liked the sides |
| 20:23.58 | brlcad | didn't like the reposition |
| 20:24.00 | brlcad | it was too far |
| 20:24.02 | JeffM | ok |
| 20:24.04 | JeffM | yeah me nether |
| 20:24.09 | brlcad | either somewhere in between |
| 20:24.12 | JeffM | but figured had to try |
| 20:24.16 | brlcad | if you can imagine the ring it sits on |
| 20:24.21 | Erroneous | but the barrel is cool |
| 20:24.30 | brlcad | that needs to be square in the middle of the tank's footprint |
| 20:24.33 | JeffM | I have a hybrid idea for the back of the durret |
| 20:24.41 | JeffM | brlcad, ok i'll play wiht it |
| 20:24.50 | brlcad | so if you imagine the turret spinning 360, it stays centered |
| 20:24.57 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:25.20 | JeffM | I may also try a barrel -> turret joint like you showed me, but I kinda liek the idea of the rubber boot |
| 20:25.36 | awilcox | Lukstr: this is what we were doing... http://xkcd.com/378/ |
| 20:25.40 | Erroneous | gotta texture it appropriately if it's rubber though :) |
| 20:25.44 | JeffM | but do we all like the direction is going? is it acceptable |
| 20:25.48 | JeffM | Erroneous, yes that is the plan |
| 20:25.50 | Erroneous | gonna do a full texture map? |
| 20:25.57 | JeffM | I hope so |
| 20:26.01 | brlcad | yeah, that probably wouldn't look cool without having the whole flat front face like the abrahms has |
| 20:26.11 | JeffM | with camo paint on the flat parts |
| 20:26.16 | brlcad | yeah, I think it's hot |
| 20:26.16 | Erroneous | cool |
| 20:26.18 | Lukstr | Does BZFlag aim to have very low hardware requirements? |
| 20:26.23 | Lukstr | awilcox: indeed ;) |
| 20:26.25 | JeffM | Lukstr, yes and no |
| 20:26.30 | Erroneous | define "very low" |
| 20:26.36 | JeffM | it used to be important to us |
| 20:26.40 | brlcad | as low as we can get away with without people crying |
| 20:26.43 | JeffM | but now adays we don't care so much |
| 20:26.48 | Lukstr | brlcad: that's a good answer. |
| 20:26.50 | JeffM | yeah we don't go bonkers |
| 20:27.00 | JeffM | personaly I shoot for the GeForce2 range |
| 20:27.01 | awilcox | Lukstr: It gets ~20 fps on a NetBurst Celeron 1.6GHz with an ATi Radeon 7000, so um, nowadays yes |
| 20:27.08 | brlcad | but not so low that it's a huge burden or limits how high-end we can go |
| 20:27.23 | awilcox | and that's at High blast007 quality |
| 20:27.25 | JeffM | we have modes that turn down various details |
| 20:27.27 | awilcox | er...stupid tab key. |
| 20:27.32 | Erroneous | heh |
| 20:27.35 | JeffM | like you can turn off textures for software only |
| 20:27.36 | Lukstr | awilcox: how do I turn it up to high-blast quality? :P |
| 20:27.38 | Winny | The performance has much to do with the map as well |
| 20:27.45 | JeffM | Lukstr, that's probably the default |
| 20:27.48 | awilcox | Erroneous: haha |
| 20:28.06 | awilcox | Winny is right...complex maps only get like 3 fps on same aforementioned Celeron |
| 20:28.12 | JeffM | Lukstr, in the options menu there is a sub menu that lets you pick between low -> med -> high -> expreimental |
| 20:28.12 | Winny | hehe |
| 20:28.24 | Lukstr | JeffM: I'll check it out |
| 20:28.30 | JeffM | awilcox, go to experimental and fire a rico laser in trunk ;) |
| 20:28.35 | brlcad | just s/Drupal/BZFlag/ while you read it ;) |
| 20:29.02 | Lukstr | Okay so, back to the topic at hand: GSoC wiki proposal ideas: |
| 20:29.11 | brlcad | Winny: someone could very well propose web-development as a project |
| 20:29.11 | awilcox | JeffM: haven't installed svn yet, but I shall soon :) |
| 20:29.31 | Lukstr | I'll comment on the ones I already thought about |
| 20:29.57 | Winny | hmm, they don't need to be C/C++ based? |
| 20:30.01 | JeffM | nope |
| 20:30.13 | JeffM | Winny, drupal got 40 slots last year... and tha'ts all php ;) |
| 20:30.21 | Winny | 40 slots? jesus |
| 20:30.33 | brlcad | they're a huge project |
| 20:30.35 | JeffM | think about it, what does google do....? |
| 20:30.46 | Lukstr | BZWorkBench enhancement: Yes and No. I see it used to be a MSVS project before, and someone mentioned it being mostly GUI focused, which doesn't excite me a whole lot |
| 20:31.11 | JeffM | we could very well mentor a game stat system that had the posibility of being used on other games, and that woudl totaly be good for SOC. |
| 20:31.34 | Lukstr | Enhanced cross-platform multiple display support: I've looked into this with SDL before and it was painful, so unless things have changed in the past few years it still seems painful |
| 20:31.36 | JeffM | Lukstr, it has a makefile too, and there is backend work too |
| 20:31.38 | Erroneous | Lukstr: bzwb was developed from scratch in eclipse. the vs project was added on afterwards. |
| 20:31.47 | brlcad | Lukstr: long-term bzwb has nothing to do with the "build system", it can be repacked into any build system -- that's a triviality |
| 20:31.49 | Lukstr | Erroneous: oh thankyou |
| 20:32.01 | brlcad | but gui not exciting you is *very* important |
| 20:32.08 | Lukstr | no no I realise that |
| 20:32.12 | Lukstr | brlcad: hm? |
| 20:32.15 | Erroneous | yeah, not contesting that part...most of what's left is interface work |
| 20:32.24 | JeffM | the gui is the most important part of an editor |
| 20:32.32 | brlcad | means you should look at the non-graphical projects to me |
| 20:32.47 | brlcad | which cuts about half of them off the list |
| 20:32.48 | awilcox | The best programmers make the worst UI designers, so they say. |
| 20:32.54 | Lukstr | brlcad: I do like gui's and do not hate making them, but if that's all that's left to do it seems a bit drab, imho |
| 20:33.08 | JeffM | awilcox, unless they are UI designers too ;) |
| 20:33.08 | brlcad | Lukstr: that's my point, it's not all that's left to do |
| 20:33.17 | brlcad | there are plenty of other non-gui things to be done |
| 20:33.20 | Lukstr | brlcad: alright |
| 20:33.21 | brlcad | that would make great projects |
| 20:33.26 | awilcox | JeffM: That's true. |
| 20:33.33 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 20:33.33 | Lukstr | most of the other things I do not know too much about yet, it would seem |
| 20:33.37 | Lukstr | or exactly what is involved |
| 20:33.38 | brlcad | i'm saying, focus on those ideas instead |
| 20:33.52 | JeffM | Lukstr, well it is a 3 month job, so I would hope it would be involved ;) |
| 20:34.03 | andrecastelo | Lukstr: why don't u take a look at the logic separation part |
| 20:34.04 | Lukstr | JeffM: huh? |
| 20:34.13 | JeffM | the SoC is a 3 month job |
| 20:34.14 | Lukstr | andrecastelo: I looked at that and I found it interesting |
| 20:34.23 | Lukstr | JeffM: Yes, but I think you misread about being involved |
| 20:34.31 | andrecastelo | Lukstr: i'm considering applying to either BZWB Enhancements or the Logic Separation project |
| 20:34.39 | JeffM | ahh I did |
| 20:34.39 | awilcox | JeffM: He meant he doesn't know what is involved with doing the other projects. |
| 20:34.46 | JeffM | I see that know |
| 20:34.51 | JeffM | stupid english |
| 20:34.53 | Lukstr | JeffM: I'm going to have 24/7 all summer :P |
| 20:35.07 | Lukstr | and will probably put in stupid amounts of hours into any GSoC thing I work on |
| 20:35.19 | Lukstr | Sleep gets in the way of my coding |
| 20:35.31 | andrecastelo | lol :b |
| 20:35.39 | Lukstr | But my first impressions of your game were very good, it was quite entertaining |
| 20:35.44 | JeffM | well as has been said, you got plent of time before we even have signups ;) |
| 20:35.50 | Lukstr | so I'm hooked for now :P |
| 20:35.54 | JeffM | cool |
| 20:36.02 | andrecastelo | Lukstr: i played too, but got instantly destroyed time and time again |
| 20:36.03 | Winny | s/for now/forever/ |
| 20:36.21 | Lukstr | andrecastelo: I got a few kills here and there :P |
| 20:36.23 | awilcox | Lukstr meant: so I'm hooked forever :P |
| 20:36.32 | Erroneous | you will get better as you play, definitely |
| 20:36.37 | andrecastelo | Lukstr: i didn't get any :( probably one or two |
| 20:36.41 | JeffM | awilcox, or untill I make iut run like crap on your computer ;) |
| 20:36.46 | Lukstr | andrecastelo: only two other people in my game |
| 20:36.47 | andrecastelo | oh |
| 20:36.53 | andrecastelo | ah |
| 20:36.53 | Erroneous | but bear in mind that all of the devs ('cept brlcad) suck, because we spend too much time coding and not enough playing |
| 20:37.02 | andrecastelo | i was in an insane ffa with 8+ people |
| 20:37.08 | Lukstr | Erroneous: that's perfect :) |
| 20:37.19 | andrecastelo | one thing i thought about |
| 20:37.21 | awilcox | JeffM: huh? |
| 20:37.31 | andrecastelo | would it be a good idea to have a dynamic aim system ? |
| 20:37.35 | awilcox | JeffM: You plan on making it run like crap on a GeForce 8600 GTS? :P |
| 20:37.39 | Lukstr | So in a nutshell, BZWorkBench is a map-making app? |
| 20:37.41 | JeffM | awilcox, sure |
| 20:37.45 | Erroneous | Lukstr: yup |
| 20:37.48 | awilcox | Lukstr: that's the point. |
| 20:37.49 | JeffM | andrecastelo, what do you mean? |
| 20:37.58 | Lukstr | hmm |
| 20:38.17 | Lukstr | Was there a reason the last dev chose to do it in C++? |
| 20:38.27 | andrecastelo | JeffM: you could 'lock' your target and then it would show onscreen where you should shoot to kill the target |
| 20:38.31 | awilcox | JeffM: but this is the current midrange card, how could you even possibly make it run like crap? (Unless you are planning on doing bloat like vista :p ) |
| 20:38.39 | JeffM | andrecastelo, that would be very close to a cheat |
| 20:38.50 | awilcox | andrecastelo: uck, you mean like GM does now? that would be terrible |
| 20:38.51 | JeffM | awilcox, particles |
| 20:39.09 | Erroneous | Lukstr: most of our developers know c++ and python. jude did not know python, so he did it in c++ |
| 20:39.12 | JeffM | Lukstr, because it's a language most devs know. |
| 20:39.29 | JeffM | and it let him use a number of snipits from the game. |
| 20:39.32 | Winny | JeffM, if they ran fine on trepan's 5200(??) http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/varied_fountain.jpg |
| 20:39.39 | JeffM | Winny, that is ONE |
| 20:39.41 | JeffM | ;) |
| 20:39.43 | Lukstr | Oh, cause I would have said Python :P |
| 20:39.52 | JeffM | there is a python bzedit |
| 20:39.55 | JeffM | but we did not make it |
| 20:39.56 | andrecastelo | JeffM, awilcox: i thought you guys would think that.. the game is pretty much around shooting at the right place to get the kill |
| 20:40.02 | Winny | eh? Looks like 9 emiiters to me |
| 20:40.02 | JeffM | it was not simlple to get to work |
| 20:40.09 | JeffM | Winny, still notin |
| 20:40.16 | JeffM | and don't tempt me |
| 20:40.18 | JeffM | cus I can do it |
| 20:40.31 | Winny | JeffM: Wouldn't particles be niiiiice? |
| 20:40.31 | JeffM | andrecastelo, yeah that's the skill part |
| 20:40.36 | Erroneous | for bzflag projects, c++ is preferred, and python is acceptable in a number of circumstances (standalone tools, api stuff, etc) |
| 20:40.39 | JeffM | Winny, sure, so would lots of things |
| 20:40.45 | Winny | ;) |
| 20:41.01 | JeffM | I'd make the boxes not look like crap before I did particles |
| 20:41.09 | JeffM | multitexture FTW |
| 20:41.15 | awilcox | JeffM: 3D particles @ 800x600 (windowed) STILL get 31 FPS in a benchmarking utility I have |
| 20:41.27 | Lukstr | Erroneous: I understand, but I'd imagine the map maker would be standalone, worst case scenario a light rendering engine |
| 20:41.35 | JeffM | awilcox, exactly, combine that with a bunch of other stuff. :) |
| 20:41.41 | awilcox | Lukstr: ah, we have close setups then. I have a Xeon Harpertown (quad) @ 2.00GHz / 4GB RAM / GF8600 GTS |
| 20:41.46 | Erroneous | yeah, it could have been done in python and I don't think anyone would have really objected |
| 20:41.56 | JeffM | but it was not done in python |
| 20:42.00 | JeffM | so it is what it is |
| 20:42.03 | Lukstr | awilcox: sexy. Do you have the XFX card? |
| 20:42.27 | awilcox | Lukstr: what's your Mips or MFLOPS rating? |
| 20:42.31 | Lukstr | Erroneous: just seems to me that it'd be pretty fun to whip it up in python, not to mention incredibly portable |
| 20:42.36 | awilcox | Lukstr: nup, eVGA card. |
| 20:42.46 | JeffM | awilcox, register the card |
| 20:42.47 | Lukstr | awilcox: haven't tested |
| 20:43.01 | Erroneous | Lukstr: c++ is can be very portable (and everything you find in bzflag is) |
| 20:43.03 | awilcox | JeffM: um okay...why wouldn't I? |
| 20:43.04 | Lukstr | XFX let's me overclock and melt my card and they'll replace it for free |
| 20:43.23 | JeffM | awilcox, just make sure you do so, online |
| 20:43.24 | Lukstr | Erroneous: I know, but python is portable in an easier sense |
| 20:43.32 | JeffM | Lukstr, not in all cases |
| 20:43.39 | Lukstr | JeffM: Most of the time |
| 20:43.40 | awilcox | Lukstr: from what I've read, so does eVGA most of the time |
| 20:43.41 | JeffM | pybzedit is a pain to get working on windows |
| 20:43.43 | Erroneous | python on windows can be painful |
| 20:43.47 | JeffM | too many dependencies |
| 20:43.49 | Lukstr | awilcox: yay |
| 20:43.54 | JeffM | and the majority of our users are windows based |
| 20:44.11 | awilcox | Lukstr: Google for "PC Wizard 2008" and run the processor benchmark...I'd love to know how the two stack up |
| 20:44.15 | JeffM | well it's also crap software ;) |
| 20:44.23 | Lukstr | awilcox: willdo |
| 20:44.23 | JeffM | we didn't make pybzedit |
| 20:44.52 | JeffM | and if you are going to sugest that we rewrite the editor for SoC do don't think that will help your chances of being selected. |
| 20:45.17 | Erroneous | bzwb is a very solid foundation to build on, imho. jude did quite a good job on it. |
| 20:45.28 | JeffM | yes it's a very good solid framework |
| 20:45.40 | Lukstr | I'll have to take a deeper look at it |
| 20:45.43 | JeffM | and it's disribution package is very managable |
| 20:45.56 | JeffM | I mean if you don't want to do BZWB then don't |
| 20:46.10 | JeffM | I was just saying what I personaly feel is one of the important projects |
| 20:47.09 | Lukstr | is there a spec for the map format? |
| 20:47.12 | awilcox | yeah, bzwb is good. except for the stupid ctrl/shift/alt/left/middle/right, i.e. user input part. |
| 20:47.21 | Erroneous | Lukstr: yeah, bzflag's source code ;) |
| 20:47.28 | JeffM | Lukstr, there is the code, and many of the objects are documented in the wiki |
| 20:47.31 | Lukstr | Erroneous: other than that :) |
| 20:47.35 | awilcox | Lukstr: I believe there is some reference on the wiki |
| 20:47.39 | brlcad | Erroneous: nah, I suck now too .. haven't played in so long |
| 20:47.40 | Lukstr | JeffM: where in the wiki? that's what I was looking for |
| 20:47.41 | JeffM | BZWB allready reads the format |
| 20:47.52 | Lukstr | JeffM: never disputed that |
| 20:47.56 | Erroneous | there is documentation on the wiki and in the manpages |
| 20:48.00 | brlcad | but jeffm does usually suck the worst when we all get together for a match ;) |
| 20:48.07 | JeffM | Lukstr, the main page has a category for maps |
| 20:48.09 | JeffM | read that |
| 20:48.14 | JeffM | it will link you to the various pages. |
| 20:48.22 | awilcox | bzdev matches?! :( I wanna play |
| 20:48.22 | Lukstr | will do |
| 20:48.28 | Erroneous | Lukstr: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Bzw |
| 20:48.39 | JeffM | brlcad, I tell ya, I'm shooting out outdo tim |
| 20:48.48 | Lukstr | Erroneous: thank you |
| 20:49.07 | JeffM | Erroneous, aww should have tested his research skills |
| 20:49.20 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman4 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:49.29 | Erroneous | JeffM: heh |
| 20:49.41 | JeffM | Erroneous, I'm kinda not joking. |
| 20:49.47 | JeffM | Lukstr, they did |
| 20:49.48 | Erroneous | brlcad: yeah, but you at least did play competitively for a while, and a lot more recently than I did :) |
| 20:49.52 | Winny | oh god, here go the whodaman googlebots again |
| 20:49.54 | Lukstr | JeffM: huh |
| 20:50.04 | whodaman- | oh great |
| 20:50.04 | tannerld | Winny: huh? |
| 20:50.05 | whodaman- | yay |
| 20:50.09 | whodaman- | this is awesome |
| 20:50.11 | whodaman- | :( |
| 20:50.11 | Winny | tannerld: * whodaman4 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) has joined #bzflag |
| 20:50.18 | brlcad | yeah, I was pretty damn good for a while even if I do say so myself .. but not anymore |
| 20:50.25 | Winny | tannerld: 42f94222 is 66.249.66.34 (crawl-66-249-66-34.googlebot.com) |
| 20:50.25 | tannerld | whodaman-: huh? |
| 20:50.27 | brlcad | it's all bygone nostalgic days |
| 20:50.30 | Erroneous | Lukstr: bzfs and bzwb both have full bzw parsers in c++ |
| 20:50.46 | Lukstr | Erroneous: Why did somebody actually bother to write a parser? |
| 20:50.52 | awilcox | I sugest /mode #bzflag +b whodaman*!*@bz.bzflag.bz temporarily... |
| 20:50.57 | JeffM | Lukstr, because it's a C++ app |
| 20:50.59 | Lukstr | I thought those days were over |
| 20:51.01 | JeffM | from 1993 |
| 20:51.05 | Lukstr | what happened to Lex/Yakk ? |
| 20:51.11 | brlcad | Lukstr: he doesn't mean a .y parser if that's what you mean |
| 20:51.23 | Erroneous | Lukstr: it's a very simple grammar |
| 20:51.39 | Lukstr | s/Yakk/Yacc/ |
| 20:51.41 | JeffM | Lukstr, C++ is not bad, you realy need to stop harshing on it just because |
| 20:51.56 | Lukstr | JeffM: when did I ever say C++ is bad? I love C++ |
| 20:52.03 | JeffM | these are the language we have used.. you can work with them or you can't |
| 20:52.15 | JeffM | Lukstr, you' keep sugesting other langauges or methods ;) |
| 20:52.24 | Lukstr | JeffM: Right tool for the right job is my philosophy |
| 20:52.32 | JeffM | yeah but the house is built |
| 20:52.35 | JeffM | you need to finish it |
| 20:52.38 | JeffM | not rebuild it |
| 20:52.55 | Erroneous | JeffM: asking why certain solutions were used is a good way to learn about the project |
| 20:53.00 | Gilly | brlcad: heh... i too was a superb player some time ago but now it's going worse and worse |
| 20:53.00 | JeffM | true |
| 20:53.01 | Lukstr | awilcox: s/};/}/ |
| 20:53.16 | brlcad | Gilly: yeah.. *sniff* |
| 20:53.18 | JeffM | but the tone and other comments don't seem to be ;) |
| 20:53.28 | *** join/#bzflag Default_ (n=Default@24-197-143-008.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 20:53.30 | Lukstr | JeffM: Sorry, not my intention |
| 20:53.34 | JeffM | fair nuf |
| 20:53.43 | Gilly | brlcad: i still can compete with most of the folks though, but it's getting harder to simultaneously pwn all the field :P |
| 20:53.51 | JeffM | all but one of the parsers we have is in C++ |
| 20:54.01 | JeffM | the city generator uses bison |
| 20:54.01 | awilcox | Gilly: you pwned me last week on bzf :) |
| 20:54.21 | Lukstr | JeffM: that's sane |
| 20:54.21 | Gilly | awilcox: :) |
| 20:54.42 | Erroneous | bzwgen does use flex and bison, but not for parsing bzw's |
| 20:54.43 | awilcox | and uh, you know how they say those who can't do, teach? well yeah I'm like that with bz...I've now taught three people how to play bz...and they are a lot better than I am even now... |
| 20:54.43 | JeffM | Lukstr, actualy for that one we kinda wanted the author to use an existing langauge insted of implment his own |
| 20:54.44 | brlcad | Gilly: yeah, that's always fun .. I will still end up at the top of the list on a given random day .. but if there's more than a couple hot-shots, I'm easy to dethrone |
| 20:54.57 | JeffM | yeah it's a language parser, not a map parser |
| 20:54.58 | Erroneous | it uses them for its own grammar-based rulesets |
| 20:55.00 | JeffM | we parse more then maps |
| 20:55.02 | Lukstr | JeffM: I just see no need to ever write a parser in C++ again, ever. |
| 20:55.08 | Erroneous | I think it's a good solution, honestly |
| 20:55.11 | JeffM | Lukstr, ok.. |
| 20:55.27 | Lukstr | at least if it's something that lex+yacc were designed for |
| 20:55.33 | brlcad | Lukstr: like you said, right tool for the right job .. there are plenty of situations that call for it as the best choice |
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| 20:55.47 | Winny | ugh |
| 20:55.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*@*.bzflag.bz] by JeffM |
| 20:55.58 | *** kick/#bzflag [whodaman9!n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm] by JeffM (JeffM) |
| 20:56.04 | awilcox | ~lart google |
| 20:56.04 | ibot | cuts google into thin stripes |
| 20:56.05 | Erroneous | bzw is simple enough that it's not really necessary (or at least was, before nesting, groups and meshes) |
| 20:56.07 | JeffM | opps |
| 20:56.10 | Winny | eh, doesn't that boot barclad? |
| 20:56.14 | Winny | err, brlcad |
| 20:56.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b *!*@*.bzflag.bz] by JeffM |
| 20:56.18 | *** join/#bzflag ALEXfrance (n=ALEXfran@213.166.216.176) |
| 20:56.21 | Erroneous | heh |
| 20:56.21 | JeffM | a ban does not kick |
| 20:56.23 | Gilly | :) |
| 20:56.30 | Winny | he might not be able to rejoin :) |
| 20:56.33 | JeffM | he can now |
| 20:56.37 | JeffM | hence the oops |
| 20:56.44 | Lukstr | JeffM: What existing language were you talking about? |
| 20:56.46 | awilcox | that would have been interesting.../kickbanning an op |
| 20:57.11 | JeffM | Lukstr, we questioned him on why he didn't use c or python for the rules that he was doing, instead of inventing a language. |
| 20:57.14 | Gilly | iirc ops can still reverse bans using ChanServ |
| 20:57.18 | brlcad | Lukstr: regardless, for a project -- focus on the 'what' first .. we can talk about the how and requirements after you figure that much out ;) |
| 20:57.31 | awilcox | Gilly: true |
| 20:57.39 | Lukstr | brlcad: no no, I agree, I'm just throwing some commentary around |
| 20:57.57 | Lukstr | trying to get a feel for how the development team "works and thinks" |
| 20:58.29 | Erroneous | Lukstr: some were concerned about having flex and bison as dependencies, as well as the amount of time and effort required, since the developer in question did not have prior experience with those tools. |
| 20:58.30 | brlcad | sure, good stuff |
| 20:58.47 | JeffM | Erroneous, and the documentation of said language ;) |
| 20:58.52 | Erroneous | and since it was an SoC project, time was rather important |
| 20:58.55 | JeffM | he did doc it so all good |
| 20:58.58 | Erroneous | yeah, and docs, but we got that one resolved :) |
| 20:59.09 | Lukstr | Erroneous: alright, I just hate seeing people bash their heads over a parser :( |
| 20:59.13 | JeffM | mostly I was just trying to get him to explain it |
| 20:59.16 | brlcad | he was very much crunched for time |
| 20:59.25 | brlcad | a lexer/parser would have made him fail actually |
| 20:59.28 | JeffM | Lukstr, parsers can be easy to write in C++ :) |
| 20:59.29 | awilcox | I miss jude :/ anybody know what happened to him? |
| 20:59.35 | JeffM | if you don't care about abbusing the crap out of tokenize |
| 20:59.46 | Lukstr | JeffM: yeah that |
| 20:59.50 | Erroneous | I think that's the only thing I actually threatened to fail him if he didn't do, was document that rules language :) |
| 21:00.20 | SpazzyMcGee | This is going on the planet mofo billboards http://cbg.bzflag.org/images/billboards/GSoC.png |
| 21:00.33 | JeffM | SpazzyMcGee, cool |
| 21:00.37 | JeffM | didn't want to use the flyer? |
| 21:00.49 | SpazzyMcGee | IT diddn't fit in the billboard |
| 21:00.53 | JeffM | you can mod it |
| 21:00.55 | Erroneous | flyer's a bit big/busy for a billboard |
| 21:01.14 | JeffM | mayhaps |
| 21:01.22 | Lukstr | the other thing I guess is that I probably will continue developing for a project once I really start (i.e. soc) |
| 21:01.29 | JeffM | SpazzyMcGee, that URL is prety small |
| 21:01.38 | Lukstr | at least as much as my school lets me |
| 21:01.43 | brlcad | Lukstr: that is the actual point of goal |
| 21:01.45 | JeffM | that'd be my only critisism that I have on it |
| 21:01.47 | Erroneous | cool! a lot of people tend to drop it when the summer is over, which is kind of sad |
| 21:01.52 | brlcad | s/goal/gsoc/ gah, can't type today |
| 21:01.53 | SpazzyMcGee | It's close to eye level when you're in the tank though. |
| 21:01.57 | JeffM | ok |
| 21:02.06 | Lukstr | brlcad: True but it doesn't guarantee students stick around, a lot of them don't |
| 21:02.11 | brlcad | yep |
| 21:02.15 | brlcad | but always desireable |
| 21:02.20 | SpazzyMcGee | If you want any other info on there I can add it. |
| 21:02.21 | Lukstr | brlcad: but I like guarding my code bases :) |
| 21:02.27 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman1 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:02.33 | JeffM | SpazzyMcGee, naw the ULR has the rest |
| 21:02.36 | brlcad | we're very much going to be looking more at who seems most passionate about the work and works well with our community |
| 21:02.42 | SpazzyMcGee | cool |
| 21:02.45 | brlcad | since if we can't talk to them, what's the point |
| 21:02.47 | Lukstr | brlcad: roger dodger |
| 21:02.49 | JeffM | if/when we get accepted we'll put a news item on the main page too |
| 21:03.00 | awilcox | are there requirements for GSoC? I mean, being a student (duh), but I mean what kind of student? college, high school? freshman/sophmore/junior/senior? |
| 21:03.09 | Lukstr | awilcox: university |
| 21:03.15 | brlcad | awilcox: yes, see the gsoc faq |
| 21:03.16 | Lukstr | and age >= 18 |
| 21:03.19 | JeffM | awilcox, yeah uni, and 18+ IIRC |
| 21:03.26 | brlcad | http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html |
| 21:03.53 | Erroneous | college, for those who use US-variant english |
| 21:04.04 | Lukstr | Erroneous: US-variant english < * |
| 21:04.05 | Erroneous | Winny: GHOP is for that |
| 21:04.09 | JeffM | Winny, there is another project for htat |
| 21:04.10 | brlcad | few other minor ones like can't be a mentor on the same project, can't be from sudan and a few other countries, etc |
| 21:04.11 | JeffM | yeah ghop |
| 21:04.24 | JeffM | no cuban devs |
| 21:04.37 | Lukstr | brlcad: you cannot mentor and be a student at all |
| 21:04.38 | Erroneous | aww, poor north korean university students can't get paid by google... |
| 21:04.40 | brlcad | leslie asked if we'd be interested in ghop next year |
| 21:04.49 | Lukstr | afaik |
| 21:04.49 | Winny | :) |
| 21:04.53 | JeffM | oh that would be "fun" |
| 21:05.00 | Erroneous | brlcad: hm, interesting |
| 21:05.17 | Lukstr | Out of curiosity: Where is everyone from in the world? |
| 21:05.21 | JeffM | "d00000d ! t0tly gt a wikd idea!" |
| 21:05.23 | Lukstr | Annnd what do you do for food? |
| 21:05.30 | Lukstr | (i.e. job) |
| 21:05.57 | andrecastelo | Lukstr: i'm from brazil |
| 21:06.10 | jftsang | I am from Hong Kong |
| 21:06.12 | JeffM | and beers |
| 21:06.14 | Erroneous | Lukstr: I'm living in California, doing software qa and development |
| 21:06.17 | JeffM | don't forget the beers |
| 21:06.24 | brlcad | and saki |
| 21:06.27 | brlcad | and scooby snaks |
| 21:06.44 | brlcad | s/saki/sake/ dammit |
| 21:07.07 | JeffM | brlcad, beer is the only constant to all bzflag developer meetings ;) |
| 21:07.58 | JeffM | I mean otherwise wy would you pimp out your man kisses ;) |
| 21:08.24 | brlcad | true |
| 21:08.44 | JeffM | sooner we get a paypal acct setup, sooner I can take that down ;) |
| 21:08.54 | JeffM | tho guess I could just sign up using the store e-mail |
| 21:09.17 | JeffM | do we have a seperate bank account for the leftover SoC money? |
| 21:09.33 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman4 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:09.42 | Erroneous | that's another thing an org would make easier |
| 21:09.51 | JeffM | indeed |
| 21:10.24 | JeffM | tho I dunno if we have to tie to a bank account to upgrade to premeire acct |
| 21:10.40 | awilcox | JeffM: You do. |
| 21:10.49 | JeffM | figured |
| 21:10.59 | Winny | just send the money to me ;) |
| 21:11.00 | awilcox | And for a business account, I believe you need a Tax ID or ESN(or something like that) |
| 21:11.12 | JeffM | I don't think we'll do a biz one |
| 21:11.22 | JeffM | if we make an org, then sure |
| 21:11.35 | JeffM | but we just need to get payments and keep them in paypal for now |
| 21:11.47 | think_tank | google's back |
| 21:11.54 | Erroneous | EIN |
| 21:11.58 | Erroneous | not ESN |
| 21:12.09 | awilcox | ah, thanks Erroneous. |
| 21:12.24 | awilcox | By the way, Erroneous, you like software QA? Do I have a place for *you* in AWOS...! |
| 21:12.35 | JeffM | the other option is I do this all personaly and just get trusted |
| 21:12.44 | JeffM | more fees that way |
| 21:12.48 | Erroneous | awilcox: I have enough projects, thx |
| 21:13.05 | awilcox | JeffM: Not that we don't trust you, but that's a big responsibility and burden for you, isn't it? |
| 21:13.09 | JeffM | awilcox, he gets paid to do QA ;) |
| 21:13.10 | awilcox | Erroneous: Okay. |
| 21:13.17 | JeffM | burden, naw |
| 21:13.26 | JeffM | I'm going to be shiping the crap anyway |
| 21:13.36 | JeffM | and we have the startup money |
| 21:14.03 | Winny | any way to verify you won't be putting anthrax in some of the boxes? ;) |
| 21:14.11 | JeffM | yeah Erroneous can check |
| 21:14.20 | JeffM | they will be bags not boxes |
| 21:14.24 | JeffM | :) |
| 21:14.36 | Erroneous | Winny: killing your customers is bad business |
| 21:14.45 | Lukstr | how do I register my call sign? |
| 21:14.53 | JeffM | Lukstr, sign up on the fourms |
| 21:15.02 | JeffM | every fourm account is a registered callsign |
| 21:15.03 | Winny | register on the forum, it's the same accout for both |
| 21:15.08 | Lukstr | ok |
| 21:15.11 | Winny | blah, too slow |
| 21:15.17 | Erroneous | the wiki covers that too ;) |
| 21:15.19 | JeffM | Erroneous, depends who orders.... :) |
| 21:15.21 | Erroneous | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Getting_Started#Registering_a_callsign.28Optional.29 |
| 21:15.46 | JeffM | if I see a box going out to mikeeusa.. I may have to find a dog. |
| 21:16.07 | Erroneous | or a bobcat? |
| 21:16.11 | JeffM | indeed |
| 21:16.17 | JeffM | "will not oder again" |
| 21:16.22 | JeffM | order even |
| 21:16.29 | awilcox | *sniffs* |
| 21:16.34 | awilcox | Phew, nope, will not odor again. |
| 21:16.43 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman1 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:16.52 | JeffM | "naw man.. I'm not into pokimon" |
| 21:16.55 | Lukstr | Gah I hate it when the forums send my password to me plaintext :( |
| 21:17.01 | awilcox | Hahahaha. |
| 21:17.06 | Winny | brlcad: when you send the application, tell google to stop crawling on CGI:IRC links ;) |
| 21:18.59 | awilcox | Even though I do still see a VC71 folder, I just want to make sure; BZFlag trunk still supports VC 2003 right? |
| 21:19.29 | JeffM | awilcox, sure |
| 21:19.41 | JeffM | tho I don' tknow how up to date it is |
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| 21:23.15 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman0 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:23.22 | Winny | heh.... |
| 21:23.54 | *** join/#bzflag F687s__ (n=noah@cpe-71-67-112-44.woh.res.rr.com) |
| 21:24.43 | *** join/#bzflag F687s___ (n=noah@cpe-71-67-112-44.woh.res.rr.com) |
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| 21:30.06 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman2 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:35.25 | brlcad | Winny: we can tell them, someone should just edit the robots file |
| 21:36.28 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman0 (n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:36.30 | whodaman- | hm |
| 21:36.36 | whodaman- | this is fun |
| 21:36.36 | JeffM | dude |
| 21:36.40 | JeffM | it is not |
| 21:36.47 | whodaman- | dude |
| 21:36.49 | whodaman- | it's not my fault |
| 21:36.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!n=42f94222@bz.bzflag.bz] by JeffM |
| 21:36.52 | *** kick/#bzflag [whodaman0!n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm] by JeffM (JeffM) |
| 21:37.01 | brlcad | what's up with him? |
| 21:37.02 | JeffM | A likely STORY! |
| 21:37.13 | Lukstr | yeah what's going on? |
| 21:37.21 | whodaman- | brlcad, some google bot |
| 21:37.22 | JeffM | it's google walking a link on the stats |
| 21:37.27 | JeffM | channel logs |
| 21:37.40 | JeffM | it picked up his nick cus it's in the URL |
| 21:38.01 | Erroneous | sounds like we need a robots.txt |
| 21:38.29 | JeffM | IIRC we have one |
| 21:39.02 | awilcox | User-agent: * |
| 21:39.14 | awilcox | Disallow: /irc/irc.cgi # no more sucky bots trying to join! |
| 21:41.24 | brlcad | it shouldn't traverse anything in /irc |
| 21:41.35 | brlcad | someone(tm) should do the edit |
| 21:43.49 | brlcad | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 21:44.47 | Erroneous | k, all disallowed now |
| 21:47.50 | Lukstr | so what does BZ stand for? :P |
| 21:47.59 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 21:48.29 | JeffM | battlezone |
| 21:48.31 | whodaman- | Lukstr, Battle Zone |
| 21:48.42 | Winny | Battle Zone Capture Flag |
| 21:48.44 | Lukstr | oh right |
| 21:48.44 | tannerld | Break Ze Flag |
| 21:48.48 | Lukstr | shoulda guessed |
| 21:49.06 | JeffM | there is a history page on the wiki that tells it from the origonal author's first words |
| 21:49.25 | *** kick/#bzflag [Winny!n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm] by JeffM (/me kickrolls winny) |
| 21:49.38 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 21:49.38 | Lukstr | JeffM: It musn't be linked from the main page |
| 21:49.46 | *** part/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 21:49.47 | JeffM | Lukstr, no I don't think it is |
| 21:49.57 | JeffM | searh for project history |
| 21:50.01 | Lukstr | yeah I found it |
| 21:50.06 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 21:50.09 | *** part/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 21:50.12 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 21:50.13 | whodaman- | .. |
| 21:50.19 | Winny | ugh, there. The right tab. |
| 21:58.38 | Winny | *crickets* |
| 22:00.36 | Lukstr | any plans for mouse support in menus in the future? |
| 22:04.29 | ts | Clickable menus would be nice to have but there are no plans on that. |
| 22:09.17 | JeffM | Lukstr, that is a point of contention, we may do it but we would have to allow users to cofingure how it works, because many use the mouse to still drive and fight as they are in the menus |
| 22:09.28 | JeffM | I wish to remove the mouse cursor that should remove some confusion |
| 22:09.37 | JeffM | but that means a new movment tracking system |
| 22:10.18 | Winny | what would happen if the program crashed? Would the mouse be gone then? |
| 22:11.01 | JeffM | I think it ties the hide to the process |
| 22:11.02 | JeffM | so no |
| 22:11.16 | JeffM | I mean what happens when any other full screen FPS dies now? |
| 22:11.42 | Winny | Not sure, never played any :p |
| 22:11.55 | brlcad | yeah, it someone also worked out the configurability and usability issues (the HID issues), I don't think anyone would object -- just a lot of discussion on default behavior then |
| 22:12.06 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:12.20 | brlcad | being able to click the damn menus when you're not joined to a server should be an easy one though |
| 22:12.24 | JeffM | but it's defenatly tied to more then jsut clicking on menus |
| 22:12.30 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:12.39 | JeffM | we have a cursor, but it don't do nothin ;) |
| 22:12.49 | brlcad | yeah, being able to display dialogs and panels, e.g. selecting the chat tabs |
| 22:20.58 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-079-248.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:21.42 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-079-248.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:46.30 | Constitution | what exactly do we use SDL for? Keyboard/mouse/joystick input management? |
| 22:48.09 | Constitution | and if we implemented a 3D engine, would we keep SDL? |
| 22:48.29 | Winny | Ogre is *only* for rendering I believe |
| 22:48.36 | Winny | I don't think it does any input |
| 22:48.55 | JeffM | ogre can do some input stuff |
| 22:49.02 | JeffM | we'd keep SDL for sound initaly |
| 22:50.05 | JeffM | probably actualy swap back to native input for everything, and open AL for sound eventualy |
| 22:50.12 | JeffM | then there weould not be a need for SDL |
| 22:51.52 | Constitution | what about some kind of GUI library? looks like Ogre works will with stuff like CEGUI or MyGUI, although I guess our GUI needs aren't extreme... just basic keyboard stuff |
| 22:52.15 | JeffM | yes we'd swap to one of the gui libs they use |
| 22:52.20 | *** join/#bzflag Ebert (n=EbErT@adsl-158-212-79.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:52.28 | JeffM | or just draw our own using there font rendering |
| 22:52.31 | JeffM | ether would work |
| 22:52.40 | Constitution | ok |
| 22:53.08 | Ebert | mm bzfmaps.net port 7032 says there's 9 players on it, when there's only 3 |
| 22:53.43 | JeffM | probably old server with bots or something |
| 22:53.44 | TimRiker | ~bzfquery bzfmaps.net:7032 |
| 22:53.56 | Winny | nn heh |
| 22:54.03 | Constitution | it might not be talking to the list server for some reason |
| 22:54.05 | Ebert | no bots visible, is that possible? |
| 22:54.11 | Ebert | yeah that might be |
| 22:54.11 | JeffM | sure |
| 22:54.29 | Winny | its down to three for me |
| 22:54.33 | Constitution | JeffM: that would be the opposite; as in, players on the server, but not reported to the list server |
| 22:54.58 | Ebert | prolly false alarm, sry guys |
| 22:55.20 | JeffM | Constitution, depends on how old the server was ;) |
| 22:55.35 | Constitution | ah :) |
| 22:55.44 | *** join/#bzflag AHA (n=aha@unaffiliated/aha) |
| 22:57.55 | Constitution | as far as proposing to do an Ogre implementation for a GSoC project, what's a good approach to the preliminary problem of the graphics code not being ready for a "clean" 3D engine implementation? would that be a good "first half" of the project? an entire project in itself? or perhaps something we can work on before GSoC starts? |
| 23:00.19 | brlcad | eep, who did that |
| 23:00.44 | brlcad | (someone just crashed an httpd) |
| 23:01.02 | JeffM | Constitution, I would not do it as a SoC |
| 23:01.03 | brlcad | Constitution: a good first half is isolating the drawing code from the game engine |
| 23:01.06 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 23:01.12 | JeffM | yeah that in itself is a project |
| 23:01.18 | brlcad | that's probably a gsoc-sized project |
| 23:01.55 | *** join/#bzflag aha_ (n=aha@c-69-251-255-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:02.26 | brlcad | Constitution: it's all "something 'we' can work on before GSoC starts" ;) |
| 23:02.54 | JeffM | I'd only accept it as a SoC project if we had started it, and the point was to help us finish it |
| 23:03.06 | JeffM | that way we all know what's going on and agree to it |
| 23:03.32 | brlcad | it is arguably already started with src/game (at least that specifically *was* the point of src/game) |
| 23:03.46 | *** join/#bzflag MattP_ (n=aha@c-69-251-255-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:03.50 | brlcad | and so far, it's still got code that has not drawing aspect |
| 23:03.57 | JeffM | 3d was also made to hold a lot of the drawing specific stuff |
| 23:04.49 | brlcad | yeah, it'd probably need to be stripped down to just holding drawing instructions as opposed to actual ogl calls |
| 23:05.05 | brlcad | several ways to do it I suppose |
| 23:05.13 | JeffM | yeah, hence why it's a big project |
| 23:05.18 | JeffM | but I'd do that after 3.0 |
| 23:05.57 | brlcad | hm, dunno, if someone was able to neatly present an approach that limited the scope and had a decent plan, I'd think that'd be doable |
| 23:06.17 | brlcad | just not actually integrating an engine, it'd be a lot of refactoring and moving stuff around piece by piece |
| 23:06.29 | JeffM | maybe |
| 23:06.32 | JeffM | it'd have to be very good |
| 23:06.36 | *** join/#bzflag Nemoish (n=Gigi@unaffiliated/emonemo) |
| 23:13.40 | Constitution | hmm, "refactoring," "reorganizing," and that there's "several ways of doing it" sounds a little vague to me... is it a question of just how much of the graphics logic (high-level instructions all the way down to raw OpenGL calls) we want to stay integrated with the game code? |
| 23:14.14 | JeffM | Constitution, thats part of it |
| 23:14.26 | JeffM | in the end, no drawing code can stay with the game |
| 23:14.37 | JeffM | since the engine will do it's own drawing |
| 23:14.51 | JeffM | I only know of one engine that would let us keep the GL code we have |
| 23:14.52 | JeffM | OSG |
| 23:14.58 | brlcad | yeah, the game just says "I allow the display of data X now" and the client decides what to do with that |
| 23:15.23 | JeffM | if we go with ogre, the client may not even use openGL to draw |
| 23:15.40 | Constitution | DirectX ftw! |
| 23:15.50 | JeffM | or somethign else that comes around later |
| 23:15.53 | JeffM | or software |
| 23:15.55 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 23:15.57 | Constitution | yeah |
| 23:16.08 | JeffM | that is one of the points of the engine, you don't care about the drawing |
| 23:16.08 | brlcad | yeah, so it really does need to boil down to basic drawing primitives of "here's a display list" or "here's some text I want drawn with font Y" |
| 23:16.25 | JeffM | brlcad, even that may not be optimal |
| 23:16.34 | JeffM | we don't want to do the vis calc down to the primitive level |
| 23:16.41 | JeffM | that's what the engine does too |
| 23:16.46 | JeffM | we want to load it up with a sceen |
| 23:16.51 | JeffM | then jsut move the objects in the sceen |
| 23:16.56 | JeffM | and let it handle the rest |
| 23:17.03 | brlcad | i wasn't referring to the drawing |
| 23:17.14 | brlcad | I was referring to getting the drawing representation |
| 23:17.30 | JeffM | well you said drawing primitives and display list |
| 23:17.39 | JeffM | we'd jsut tell it where all the tanks and shots are |
| 23:17.49 | JeffM | and give it a hud descriptor |
| 23:18.01 | JeffM | or the hud descriptor would pull from avaialble gamestate |
| 23:18.15 | brlcad | a tank would be represented by some drawing primitive (whether a display list or text or whatever) |
| 23:18.35 | JeffM | ok, I see your terms, not normal but ok |
| 23:18.51 | Constitution | so there should be an "interface" or "layer" for the graphics code, and the client will use this and will have no knowledge of the actual drawing calls used? |
| 23:18.52 | JeffM | yeah you'd have a memory state of the game, and it could be drawn however |
| 23:18.53 | brlcad | we don't exactly have a bz taxonomy |
| 23:19.33 | JeffM | Constitution, at some point the client code has to tell the engine what to add and what is in the sceene, but yeah basicly |
| 23:19.45 | JeffM | the game shoudl be able to happen regardless of display |
| 23:19.47 | brlcad | so for some tank object in memory, it'd have some decorator/descriptor/drawing method that would get invoked by the scene library (e.g. ogre) |
| 23:20.13 | JeffM | brlcad, well a link to a sceene object like we have now |
| 23:20.24 | JeffM | our current system is not that dissimilar to ogre |
| 23:20.31 | JeffM | we'd just stop a the sceennode level |
| 23:20.42 | JeffM | once we update all the sceennodes, the engine does the rest |
| 23:20.46 | Ebert | constitution, how dare you with the Directx, thats not on mac right? |
| 23:20.56 | Constitution | Ebert: 'twas a joke :) |
| 23:21.02 | JeffM | Ebert, ogre suports multiple output systems |
| 23:21.14 | JeffM | openGL and DirectX are the majors |
| 23:21.16 | brlcad | feeding it a link to the object and calling a common method vs just the method vs extending from some base class, all the same basic pattern to me, |
| 23:21.41 | Ebert | oh, i'll have to read up on ogre |
| 23:21.41 | JeffM | brlcad, like I said, same page, just difrent terms at the start ;) |
| 23:21.43 | *** join/#bzflag delusional_ (n=delusion@pool-151-201-238-168.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:21.52 | JeffM | Ebert, ogre uses plugins for output |
| 23:22.07 | JeffM | so it can draw using GL, DX, software, or a NULL rendere |
| 23:22.34 | brlcad | yay for null |
| 23:22.45 | JeffM | optimaly we'd not need it |
| 23:22.55 | Ebert | well, in any choosing, i want support for bullet - curving :) |
| 23:22.55 | JeffM | since our own abstraction could run headless |
| 23:23.04 | JeffM | Ebert, won't happen |
| 23:23.15 | JeffM | and that's not an engine thing ;) |
| 23:23.39 | Ebert | well, it prolly shouldn't be since it makes no since with tanks |
| 23:23.56 | JeffM | well nether does jumping |
| 23:24.07 | Winny | bullet curving? You mean GM? |
| 23:24.20 | JeffM | we'll be able to do more sport things if I can finish a couple things for 3.0 |
| 23:24.27 | JeffM | the socer idea won't be too hard |
| 23:24.28 | Constitution | so you said it would need to be "already started" to be a candidate for acceptance... what kind of timeframe are we looking it? |
| 23:24.45 | JeffM | Constitution, I don't think we should start the splitup work till after 3.0 |
| 23:24.45 | brlcad | or a really good proposal |
| 23:24.52 | Ebert | no, maybe a flag that allows bullet arcing on the X plane winny |
| 23:25.01 | JeffM | or yeah a REALY awesome proposal |
| 23:25.10 | Constitution | JeffM: so we release 3.0 tomorrow? ;) |
| 23:25.11 | Winny | Constitution is ausom! |
| 23:25.21 | JeffM | Constitution, sure, have you fixed all the bugs yet? |
| 23:25.32 | JeffM | I think so too |
| 23:25.33 | brlcad | assuming we can of course :) |
| 23:25.36 | brlcad | bug-wise |
| 23:25.43 | brlcad | and gsoc-prep wise |
| 23:25.51 | Winny | I don't see why you're in such a rush |
| 23:26.14 | JeffM | Constitution, the split up needs to involve prety much everyone, since if we don't eveyrone will loose track of "where stuf happens" and that can cause a lot of people to stop developing. |
| 23:26.15 | brlcad | eh, because we should have released last summer and didn't? |
| 23:26.27 | Winny | If I were you, I'd wait until AFTER GSoc at least... Some other people might work on stuff |
| 23:26.30 | Slynderdale | JeffM: Almost done with my irc bot module then I plan to make a module for bzflag that uses push data to inform a channel when soneone joins and leaves the server. |
| 23:26.40 | JeffM | Winny, we can just do a 4.0 after SoC |
| 23:26.44 | Winny | heh |
| 23:26.57 | Winny | that seems kind of.. annoying since they all break proto |
| 23:26.59 | Ebert | yeah bricad, and i see several proposals for this SoC that were missions for last SoC |
| 23:27.34 | brlcad | Winny: so maybe someone needs to propose a reloadable bzflag project where it can download updates and upgrade automatically |
| 23:27.45 | Constitution | well I guess a tag is not a branch |
| 23:28.02 | Winny | brlcad: humm, interesting |
| 23:28.37 | brlcad | regardless, breaking proto once a year or once every other year isn't too bad imho so long as the new version is stable/better |
| 23:29.37 | Winny | how long is the transition period between breaks? |
| 23:29.46 | Winny | (usually) |
| 23:29.56 | Erroneous | our sample size for that is rather small |
| 23:30.31 | Constitution | so the timeliness of a 3D engine integration will be based off of 1) when we release 3.0, 2) how much of the work was alread started, 3) how much the other developers are "in" on the project, etc... doesn't sound like a recipie for a successful proposal |
| 23:30.50 | Erroneous | it's really not :) |
| 23:35.32 | JeffM | I did |
| 23:35.42 | JeffM | but it looks like someone has a hair up the butt about it;) |
| 23:36.12 | Erroneous | heh |
| 23:37.55 | JeffM | yeah it's not a clean cut trackable thing |
| 23:38.08 | JeffM | code cleanups to get there, maybe |
| 23:51.04 | brlcad | it was reincarnated in a very different form, that is for sure |
| 23:51.13 | brlcad | the scope is considerably less now |
| 23:59.58 | brlcad | added another proposal idea, thoughts? http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2008 |
