| 00:00.06 | JeffM | it is also not compatable with 2.0.x |
| 00:00.07 | javaJake | I wasn't sure what was up: that was one of the possibilities in my head |
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| 00:00.33 | javaJake | JeffM: right, I got that. I noticed the list server only listed 5+ servers, so I guessed that right away. |
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| 00:03.59 | javaJake | And now for the question you all _knew_ was coming: is there an ETA? Or, possibly easier to answer, is there a bug report filed somewhere I could watch? :P |
| 00:04.37 | JeffM | we don't do ETA |
| 00:16.24 | *** part/#bzflag daniel_jackson (n=bsanford@cpe-76-88-96-237.san.res.rr.com) |
| 00:24.24 | Winny | hmm |
| 00:24.34 | Winny | anyone want a hug? my hands are covered in red paint |
| 00:24.50 | a_meteorite | can I scream bloody murder when you do? |
| 00:24.53 | Winny | nope |
| 00:25.36 | a_meteorite | Winny is murdering me! Augh! nn needs to help me with his ausom ninja skillz! |
| 00:25.53 | a_meteorite | Red pa... blood everywhere! |
| 00:26.00 | spldart | ... |
| 00:31.03 | Constitution | why are some forums on the bzbb set to allow self-deletion of posts and some aren't? |
| 00:31.22 | L4m3r | because they weren't all set up at the same time, probably :) |
| 00:31.37 | Constitution | hmm |
| 00:31.53 | Winny | Constitution, you can fix them |
| 00:32.14 | Constitution | how so? |
| 00:32.21 | Winny | you're not an admin? oh.. |
| 00:32.46 | Constitution | raw SQL queries, ftw ;) |
| 00:32.52 | Winny | hehe |
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| 00:45.37 | JeffM | none of them should be set like that |
| 00:45.50 | JeffM | and IIRC it's because phpbb used to NOT allow it |
| 00:45.53 | JeffM | and now it does |
| 00:46.03 | JeffM | so new ones made after that feature got it |
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| 00:53.25 | Blizzard- | #Project8 |
| 00:53.26 | Blizzard- | :D |
| 00:53.36 | Blizzard- | You blast. |
| 00:53.42 | Blizzard- | :P |
| 00:53.53 | Winny | as in |
| 00:53.56 | Winny | blast007? |
| 00:55.29 | Blizzard- | Yer |
| 01:04.55 | JeffM | wtf? |
| 01:05.01 | Blizzard- | Who was first... |
| 01:05.03 | Blizzard- | >QuantumTim, Quantum., Quantumbleep, Quantumtank, Quantumfoam, Quantumdot? |
| 01:05.19 | Blizzard- | Nobody has told me yet :( |
| 01:09.18 | JeffM | first in what? |
| 01:10.00 | Blizzard- | To be registered. |
| 01:11.31 | JeffM | with what? |
| 01:11.34 | JeffM | bzbb? |
| 01:16.26 | Blizzard- | Bzflag.org |
| 01:17.00 | JeffM | www.bzflag.org does not do registrationms |
| 01:17.06 | JeffM | I think you mean my.bzflag.org/bb |
| 01:17.15 | JeffM | 1) you have the ability to look at the memberlist yourself |
| 01:17.22 | JeffM | 2) we don't give out personal info on our other users. |
| 01:20.22 | Blizzard- | I was kidding -.- |
| 01:20.34 | Blizzard- | B/c there's so many quantums. |
| 01:20.50 | Blizzard- | And I never asked for "Personal" info :P |
| 01:21.02 | Blizzard- | Just trying to bring, "spark". |
| 01:21.09 | JeffM | huh? |
| 01:21.17 | Blizzard- | Lol, Nevermind. |
| 01:21.31 | JeffM | so your intenet is to cause trouble? |
| 01:21.36 | JeffM | flamebait |
| 01:21.41 | Blizzard- | No... |
| 01:21.46 | Blizzard- | I was trying to make a joke. |
| 01:21.49 | Blizzard- | You know, haha :P |
| 01:21.57 | JeffM | wasn't a very good one |
| 01:22.05 | Blizzard- | B/c there's so many callsigns with Quantum. |
| 01:22.06 | JeffM | if it needed that much explanation |
| 01:22.09 | Blizzard- | It wasn't suppsed to me. |
| 01:22.09 | JeffM | so |
| 01:22.22 | Blizzard- | It was supposed to be point blank stupid. |
| 01:22.32 | Blizzard- | Not, long and drawn out :) |
| 01:22.47 | Blizzard- | Well, this is dead :) |
| 01:22.53 | Blizzard- | Have a nice day. |
| 01:22.58 | *** part/#bzflag Blizzard- (n=chatzill@user-0c8hvrd.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:35.33 | Winny | quick, what virtualization programs run on linux |
| 01:35.58 | Thumper_ | xen, vservers, vmware |
| 01:39.17 | Winny | Thumper_, does vservers do windows? |
| 01:39.25 | Winny | as in, allow the virtualization of |
| 01:39.30 | Thumper_ | nope - nobody said it had to do windows |
| 01:39.40 | Winny | darn |
| 01:39.44 | Thumper_ | vservers does linux efficiently |
| 01:41.04 | Thumper_ | not sure. maybe. never used it |
| 01:41.15 | Winny | we'll find out :p |
| 01:41.31 | JeffM | it does not |
| 01:41.37 | JeffM | vmware is your best |
| 01:41.43 | JeffM | qumu as well |
| 01:42.17 | Gnurdux | virtualbox your forgetting |
| 01:42.47 | Gnurdux | virtualbox is supposed to be pretty nice |
| 01:43.37 | Winny | hmm |
| 01:44.51 | Winny | Ill give both a shot :) |
| 01:49.37 | Winny | Constitution, did you steal my DVI to VGA adapter?! |
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| 01:54.44 | Constitution | probably |
| 01:55.28 | JeffM | you wern't using it |
| 01:55.44 | Winny | well I need it back :p |
| 01:55.57 | JeffM | isn't he a little far from you? |
| 01:56.15 | Winny | heh ;) |
| 01:57.33 | blast007 | not if you run backwards fast enough |
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| 04:53.28 | QuantumBeep | Only QuantumDot predates me. |
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| 05:06.31 | inchworm | QuantumBeep: cool |
| 05:06.53 | inchworm | somehow i saw the tail end of that, and i saw your reply.... |
| 05:26.18 | Winny | is it possible to spoof an IP, and play? |
| 05:28.07 | JeffM | I don't belive so |
| 05:28.12 | JeffM | we match the socket to the player |
| 05:28.23 | Winny | hm. |
| 05:28.58 | JeffM | unless there is a protocoll bug |
| 05:29.32 | JeffM | but I belive it's all via the socket, and if I understand spoofing right,it involves changint the TCP and UDP packet headers |
| 05:30.00 | Winny | indeed |
| 05:30.15 | Winny | but I question, how would the data get back to the original machine |
| 05:30.17 | JeffM | spoofing usualy only works for one way things |
| 05:30.22 | JeffM | like DDOSs |
| 05:30.26 | JeffM | exactly |
| 05:30.29 | Winny | yeah |
| 05:30.35 | JeffM | usualy a spoof is for a spray |
| 05:53.26 | Constitution | pausing during screenshots was in 2.0.8, right? |
| 05:56.26 | Mets | it pauses during screenshots? |
| 05:57.52 | Constitution | well it says pause and unpause |
| 05:57.59 | Constitution | no 5-second delay, though |
| 05:59.20 | JeffM | yeah IIRC |
| 06:11.45 | L4m3r | are you sure? I thought it was 2.0.6 |
| 06:12.06 | L4m3r | after all, there wasn't really anything "new" for the client in 2.0.8 :P |
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| 06:15.01 | Constitution | well as long as it was in AT LEAST 2.0.8... had a guy lagging out every few seconds. version can be spoofed, of course |
| 06:18.54 | Mets | heh guess you're right i just tried it |
| 06:19.28 | Mets | i guess i should assume you were right constitution lol, just seems weird |
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| 07:16.39 | Constitution | Mets: never assume I'm right... very dangerous ;) |
| 07:18.37 | Mets | hehe, if you insist |
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| 13:39.34 | Winny | gett morning! |
| 13:39.37 | Winny | err, good |
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| 17:59.12 | macsforme | domain problem is fixed, no? |
| 17:59.18 | *** topic/#bzflag by macsforme -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/#bzflag || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10 is out |
| 18:05.05 | brlcad | a while ago |
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| 19:09.33 | Winny | is there a way to show slot #'s while using the HIDEADMIN perm? |
| 19:13.29 | whodaman- | Winny, yeah, IIRC an easy mod |
| 19:13.30 | catay | you can get it out of the lagstats output |
| 19:14.13 | Winny | catay, ahh, ok |
| 19:14.53 | catay | or playerlist? would be cooler tho if it was also visible on the hud |
| 19:15.01 | catay | not sure if thats possible |
| 19:16.38 | whodaman- | I think it is |
| 19:16.40 | whodaman- | hang on |
| 19:17.01 | blast007 | it's just a client-side check. all clients have the player slots #'s already |
| 19:19.03 | JeffM | what do you mean by slot? playerID? |
| 19:19.27 | Winny | yeah, the numbers that appear next to the player's names, if you have admin perms |
| 19:19.49 | JeffM | the client knows the playerID of everyone |
| 19:23.15 | blast007 | JeffM: if a bz server received a message type it didn't understand, it would just ignore it, correct? |
| 19:23.24 | JeffM | yes |
| 19:23.30 | blast007 | ok |
| 19:24.10 | JeffM | it's all a big case based on the code short |
| 19:24.23 | JeffM | so if it dosn't go there it hits the default case that ignores it |
| 19:25.10 | blast007 | I'm reviving the XL client, and I might add some extra administrative info for XL clients. So I'll have the XL clients send a new packet to the server identifying themselves as an XL client (and which revision). Is that a bad thing to do? |
| 19:26.08 | blast007 | the overall protocol would be compatible, but I'd have extra packet types the XL server would send out |
| 19:31.38 | JeffM | use a difrent proto |
| 19:31.41 | JeffM | or it's a cheat |
| 19:31.52 | blast007 | hmm? |
| 19:32.01 | Winny | it's a cheat to have better administration functions? |
| 19:33.47 | JeffM | hang on, I didn't read it all, working for a bit :) |
| 19:33.52 | blast007 | ;) |
| 19:41.00 | JeffM | simpler to check the admin info into mainline |
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| 19:41.14 | JeffM | but yeah it's not as bad |
| 19:41.19 | JeffM | it makes your list harder |
| 19:41.31 | JeffM | cus XL will list standard games since it's on the same proto |
| 19:41.54 | JeffM | but I guess that's what you want |
| 19:42.05 | JeffM | you'd need a way in your list to show XL compatable servers |
| 19:42.06 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 19:42.11 | JeffM | so it's not the cleanest way |
| 19:42.24 | JeffM | maybe have it do a proto swap based on a command line option |
| 19:42.30 | JeffM | XL mode or standard mode |
| 19:42.49 | blast007 | the main point is to keep XL compatible with 2.0.x |
| 19:42.55 | blast007 | client and server |
| 19:43.06 | JeffM | damnit |
| 19:43.10 | JeffM | I'm thinking zero |
| 19:43.13 | JeffM | sorry |
| 19:43.16 | JeffM | I'm all wrong |
| 19:43.18 | blast007 | ;) |
| 19:43.25 | JeffM | what does XL do that standard dosnt'? |
| 19:43.37 | blast007 | so far? not much |
| 19:43.41 | JeffM | what do you plan? |
| 19:43.50 | JeffM | and is it anything that we don't want standard to do? |
| 19:44.07 | blast007 | more of a testbed for possible features |
| 19:44.20 | blast007 | it never had anything too mindblowing |
| 19:44.36 | JeffM | then sure |
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| 19:44.49 | blast007 | I'd like to add some extra functions for administration |
| 19:45.00 | JeffM | I'd say add those to the normal code ;) |
| 19:45.15 | blast007 | 2.0.x is dead though ;) |
| 19:45.31 | blast007 | officially, at least |
| 19:45.47 | blast007 | (in terms of development) |
| 19:46.26 | catay | Never Say Never :P |
| 19:46.39 | blast007 | hehe |
| 19:47.12 | blast007 | catay: if there comes a time when another 2.0.x *is* released, I'd merge these changes then :P |
| 19:47.36 | catay | :) |
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| 19:49.10 | blast007 | wonder if I could port the wobbly teleporter surface from pyBZFlag to XL ;) |
| 19:49.23 | blast007 | at least I think it had a wobbly surface... I never got it to run |
| 19:50.14 | blast007 | then I could change the name to BZFlag SG-1 |
| 19:50.39 | blast007 | "Go through the teleporter!" "Hold on, it's dialing" |
| 19:52.02 | tannerld | heh |
| 19:52.11 | tannerld | big speedy thing goes in, big speedy thing comes out |
| 19:52.24 | blast007 | hehehe |
| 19:52.51 | blast007 | we'd need to finish support for horizontal teleporters for that ;) |
| 19:52.58 | tannerld | heh |
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| 20:56.04 | JeffM | blast007, if you add something to the code, and do it in both branch and trunk I don't think anyone will complain |
| 21:01.34 | blast007 | JeffM: meh.. |
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| 21:33.17 | jftsang | good evening |
| 21:33.24 | Constitution | hi |
| 21:36.52 | jftsang | 21:55.34JeffMyou need the .lib to compile << JeffM, isn't it needed to link, not to compile |
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| 22:03.54 | JeffM | jftsang, I meant build |
| 22:04.02 | JeffM | on windows in VC they are basicly one step |
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| 22:06.13 | Webstrand | I have compiled bzflag 2.0.10 from source on windows xp, with Visual C++ 2005 Express, where can i find MSVCP80.dll, and MSVCR80.dll that work with bzflag? |
| 22:06.38 | JeffM | you trying to give out the build to others? |
| 22:06.45 | JeffM | cus you can't |
| 22:06.51 | JeffM | that's part of the express edition |
| 22:06.58 | JeffM | that's why it can't find those |
| 22:07.06 | Webstrand | aw |
| 22:07.17 | JeffM | it's the free version |
| 22:07.21 | JeffM | not meant for production work |
| 22:07.23 | Webstrand | well off to cygwin |
| 22:07.28 | JeffM | that's why the license says "personal use" |
| 22:07.36 | JeffM | why do you need to distribute binarys? |
| 22:07.50 | JeffM | how are yours difrent then the ones we posted? |
| 22:07.58 | Webstrand | there not |
| 22:08.08 | JeffM | then why not use the ones we posted? |
| 22:08.13 | Webstrand | i'm just trying to learn c++ |
| 22:08.21 | JeffM | then EE will work fine for you |
| 22:08.26 | JeffM | since it's peronal use |
| 22:08.26 | Webstrand | EE? |
| 22:08.30 | Webstrand | yea |
| 22:08.30 | JeffM | express edition |
| 22:08.37 | JeffM | you just dont' give them out |
| 22:08.44 | JeffM | now have you done any C++ tutorials? |
| 22:08.48 | Webstrand | ok, thanks :) |
| 22:08.56 | JeffM | or are you trying to use bzflag as some sort of example of good programing? |
| 22:08.57 | Webstrand | yes i have done a lot |
| 22:09.17 | Winny | uhoh |
| 22:09.18 | Webstrand | but since i'm not learning from a book its best to look at working code, to learn c++ structure. |
| 22:09.29 | JeffM | bzflag is not good code |
| 22:09.30 | blast007 | define "working" |
| 22:09.41 | Webstrand | but everything i have done until now was on linux |
| 22:09.54 | Webstrand | its not? |
| 22:09.59 | JeffM | god no |
| 22:10.03 | JeffM | bzflag is old |
| 22:10.08 | JeffM | and very messy |
| 22:10.20 | JeffM | the only thing we are a good exmaple of is butt simple network programing |
| 22:10.23 | JeffM | the rest is a mess |
| 22:10.58 | Webstrand | how so? i understand c++ but not the stucture |
| 22:11.15 | JeffM | we don't do things in ways that could be considred best |
| 22:11.34 | JeffM | we are not very modulare |
| 22:11.36 | JeffM | modular |
| 22:11.40 | JeffM | not very clean |
| 22:11.51 | JeffM | and if you are looking to learn game programing, we do prety much everything wrong |
| 22:12.08 | JeffM | but then it is a 14 year old codebase |
| 22:12.48 | JeffM | from a modern game and programing standpoint bzflag should be rewriten |
| 22:13.14 | Webstrand | well, what open source project do you suggest i mess with? |
| 22:13.18 | JeffM | I'm not trying to deter you but just leting you know that there are probalby better apps to use to learn from |
| 22:13.24 | JeffM | Webstrand, depends on what you want to learn |
| 22:14.02 | Winny | Warinthestar* |
| 22:14.02 | JeffM | I mean just general programing? or games? |
| 22:14.09 | Webstrand | Game programming |
| 22:14.11 | Winny | err, wrong channel |
| 22:14.25 | JeffM | then for game programing, start small |
| 22:14.27 | Winny | too many #bz<something> |
| 22:14.30 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@59.154.120.204) |
| 22:14.54 | JeffM | take a simple game concept and start by writing your own version of it to learn how it all works |
| 22:14.59 | JeffM | there are many game tutorials on the net |
| 22:15.06 | JeffM | then move up to adding mods to a game |
| 22:15.11 | JeffM | then see where that takes you |
| 22:15.18 | Webstrand | ok, thanks |
| 22:15.24 | JeffM | usualy games are not writen by one person alone |
| 22:15.57 | JeffM | what aspects of game programing interest you? |
| 22:17.23 | Webstrand | I chose bzflag, because it had a 3d first person perspective, and a not so complex world files, such as some of the other Quake4 based games have |
| 22:17.44 | JeffM | so the 3d aspect interest you |
| 22:17.54 | JeffM | I mean you can use bzflag for whatever, that's the joy of opensource |
| 22:18.02 | Webstrand | yep! |
| 22:18.05 | JeffM | I'm just letting you know that we arn't a prime example of good coding |
| 22:18.14 | jftsang | Webstrand: what sort of game do you plan on coding |
| 22:18.58 | Webstrand | I have no idea. i wasnt planning on codeing any game yet, i was just planning on learning what is needed |
| 22:19.34 | JeffM | and if you are looking at doing windows based deveopment of games for redistrobution, you should look into geting a full copy of VC ( student edition is usualy fine ) or look at using minGW |
| 22:19.43 | JeffM | cygwin is not the best for distrobution. |
| 22:20.08 | jftsang | well, games vary a lot, so you probably should have an idea of what you want to do first |
| 22:20.21 | JeffM | he's doing it for the fame and glory |
| 22:20.36 | JeffM | cus you know game programing == date magnet |
| 22:20.49 | Webstrand | lol |
| 22:21.01 | jftsang | not if it's World of Warcraft you plan on programming :P |
| 22:21.09 | JeffM | sure it is |
| 22:21.14 | JeffM | virtual dates |
| 22:21.53 | Webstrand | Well i'll go see about minGW, thanks for the help! |
| 22:22.08 | JeffM | you'll need to get more libs again |
| 22:22.10 | JeffM | sdl |
| 22:22.17 | JeffM | and probably build your own libCURL |
| 22:22.21 | JeffM | all for mingw |
| 22:22.36 | Webstrand | yea, it wont be so hard |
| 22:22.37 | jftsang | I don't remember getting SDL for compiling BZFlag.. ? |
| 22:22.41 | JeffM | are you a student at a university? |
| 22:22.50 | Webstrand | SDL is not reccommended is it? |
| 22:22.52 | JeffM | jftsang, what compiler do you use on what OS? |
| 22:23.01 | awilcox | SDL is required unless you use Windows, iirc. |
| 22:23.03 | JeffM | SDL is required for non VC |
| 22:23.08 | JeffM | it's not just "windows" |
| 22:23.09 | jftsang | Windows, MSVC8 |
| 22:23.10 | jftsang | ee |
| 22:23.13 | JeffM | it's VIsual C++ |
| 22:23.20 | JeffM | yeah jftsang VC uses direct X |
| 22:23.28 | JeffM | MINGW builds like linux |
| 22:23.30 | JeffM | and uses SDL |
| 22:23.33 | jftsang | aah. I wondered. |
| 22:23.39 | Webstrand | ok |
| 22:23.40 | JeffM | the mingGW build != VC build |
| 22:23.51 | JeffM | minGW is a windows port of GCC |
| 22:23.55 | jftsang | builds like Linux? *excited, and gets MinGW* |
| 22:24.15 | awilcox | heh. get cygwin, and then afaik you can even do configure and make. |
| 22:24.19 | JeffM | yeah has crap joystick support and that SDL dependency :) |
| 22:24.28 | JeffM | awilcox, you do configure and make with minGW |
| 22:24.38 | Webstrand | Cygwin is alredy downloading |
| 22:24.38 | JeffM | cygwin just makes it even LESS portable |
| 22:24.49 | Webstrand | so is minGW |
| 22:24.50 | JeffM | your on your own for cygwin builds of bz |
| 22:24.50 | awilcox | JeffM: Ah. I've never actually performed a working *anything* with MinGW32 |
| 22:25.04 | JeffM | our windows devs all use VC |
| 22:25.14 | awilcox | And joystick support is ok with Linux, it supports my USB Gravis so I'm good. |
| 22:25.17 | JeffM | every so often somone makes sure it builds on minGW |
| 22:25.23 | JeffM | but none of our bins are done like that |
| 22:25.35 | JeffM | cygwin is basilcy unsuported. it may work, but it'll be up to you. |
| 22:25.39 | Webstrand | whats the difference between VC71 and VC80? |
| 22:25.48 | JeffM | a version |
| 22:25.51 | awilcox | Webstrand: .9 |
| 22:26.00 | JeffM | 7.1 is VC .net 2003 |
| 22:26.07 | JeffM | 8.0 is VC .net 2005 |
| 22:26.15 | JeffM | 9.0 is VC .net 2008 |
| 22:26.18 | awilcox | if you were doing managed extensions, the .NET Framework version is different (NetFX1.1 vs NetFX2.0) |
| 22:26.25 | JeffM | we are not |
| 22:26.43 | Webstrand | so no big difference? (unlike some other languages) |
| 22:26.46 | awilcox | there ya go. no real differenc,e except 8.0 may explicitly support vista |
| 22:26.57 | awilcox | not too sure |
| 22:26.59 | JeffM | Webstrand, it's like what's the difrent beween GCC 3.2 and 4.0 ? |
| 22:27.09 | Webstrand | na nevermind vista i'll wait for windows 7 |
| 22:27.12 | JeffM | C++ itself didn't change |
| 22:27.15 | JeffM | the compiler did |
| 22:27.32 | awilcox | there's a huge difference there -- 4.0 can't build qemu, 3.2 can't build kernels well (iirc) |
| 22:27.35 | JeffM | we keep projects for each compiler on windows because of how windows works |
| 22:27.51 | JeffM | it's just a lot easer for us to make the tweaks for each compiler in a sperate set of project files |
| 22:27.53 | jftsang | isn't that an oxymoron |
| 22:27.59 | JeffM | since VC dosnt' do a configure. |
| 22:28.14 | jftsang | "Windows" and "works" in the same sentance |
| 22:28.18 | JeffM | awilcox, that's due to the code you send thru, not the compiler ;) |
| 22:28.21 | JeffM | oh be nice. |
| 22:29.10 | awilcox | good point ;) |
| 22:29.24 | blast007 | jftsang: I'd switch to Linux, but, I want to play games |
| 22:29.28 | awilcox | jftsang: eh, it works alright for me since I know its limitations |
| 22:29.54 | jftsang | blast007: yeah, same, my wireless adapter hates Linux because MS paid Belkin a lot of money |
| 22:30.02 | Webstrand | I have a linux laptop and a windows desktop :D |
| 22:30.24 | blast007 | jftsang: my wifi chip works, but the laptop speakers don't ;) |
| 22:30.39 | blast007 | and sound even out the audio out is iffy |
| 22:30.39 | awilcox | Webstrand: I'll raise you -- I have a windows/linux dual-boot laptop, *and* a Linux server :D |
| 22:30.40 | JeffM | yeah cus linux is "Better" with hardware ;) |
| 22:30.48 | jftsang | I'll just need to wait untl I have a very long ethernet cable |
| 22:31.10 | awilcox | jftsang: lol. I have a 100ft Cat6, that should be long enough |
| 22:31.12 | AAA_awright | There is a limit to how long an Ethernet cable can be.... |
| 22:31.29 | Webstrand | so you suggest i buy a retail Visual C++ insted of minGW or Cygwin |
| 22:31.29 | Winny | 100m before a repeater |
| 22:31.41 | AAA_awright | 100 m |
| 22:31.44 | JeffM | Webstrand, you do what you want |
| 22:31.46 | jftsang | yes, if you intend to distribute your binaries |
| 22:31.50 | JeffM | but if your goals are to distribute code |
| 22:31.53 | jftsang | no, if you don't need to |
| 22:31.53 | Winny | AAA_awright, I hear an echo |
| 22:31.56 | Winny | :) |
| 22:31.57 | JeffM | then cygwin will give oyu pain |
| 22:32.01 | AAA_awright | :) |
| 22:32.04 | JeffM | basicly everyone else needs the cygwin libs too |
| 22:32.09 | awilcox | Webstrand: Visual C++ 7.1 shouldn't be that expensive |
| 22:32.16 | JeffM | if you are a student, then yes I'd look into the student edtions |
| 22:32.29 | JeffM | do you go to a university? |
| 22:32.39 | awilcox | just go on eBay and look for Visual C++ 7.1 Professional if that is what you are wanting (or you COULD get VS .NET, but that'd be a lot of...ahem..crap...you don't need) |
| 22:32.40 | Webstrand | awilcox: no it isnt i just tend to use opensource |
| 22:32.49 | JeffM | Webstrand, then use what you want |
| 22:32.53 | JeffM | and deal with the issue |
| 22:32.57 | JeffM | it's as simple as that |
| 22:33.14 | JeffM | VC can make things easy |
| 22:33.19 | JeffM | but yes you usualy have to pay |
| 22:33.32 | JeffM | most windows installs have the majorties of the libs VC uses |
| 22:33.41 | JeffM | most windows installs don't have cygwin |
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| 22:34.05 | blast007 | I think when I was in college there was a student copy of Visual Studio 2003 for $50 |
| 22:34.12 | awilcox | *Windows 95* comes with msvcrt (4.0, but still) |
| 22:34.13 | JeffM | mingw can be made to work if you fudge it aroudn, but it's not trivial |
| 22:34.19 | JeffM | you end up linking staticly |
| 22:34.22 | JeffM | exactly |
| 22:34.28 | JeffM | the MSVCRT stuff is included in windows |
| 22:34.38 | JeffM | gcc runtimes are NOT |
| 22:34.52 | Webstrand | ok i'll get MSVC so i can compile win32 apps |
| 22:34.56 | JeffM | I mean if you REALY want to |
| 22:35.02 | JeffM | you can cross compile for windows on linux |
| 22:35.13 | JeffM | and not even use the OS |
| 22:35.21 | JeffM | Webstrand, are you a student? |
| 22:35.26 | Webstrand | O.O thats possible |
| 22:35.28 | awilcox | O_o I can't see that being easy or even remotely fun. |
| 22:35.32 | Webstrand | Yes i am |
| 22:35.41 | JeffM | university level? |
| 22:35.56 | Webstrand | no local college |
| 22:36.05 | JeffM | are you in a computer science class? |
| 22:36.15 | blast007 | http://www.academicsuperstore.com/market/marketdisp.html?PartNo=743466&qk_srch=visual+studio |
| 22:36.27 | JeffM | many colleges have a volume license that you can just use |
| 22:36.32 | JeffM | check into it |
| 22:36.33 | blast007 | they have 2008 Pro for $100 too |
| 22:36.54 | JeffM | but really, is your goal right now to distribute you code? |
| 22:38.45 | awilcox | Webstrand: I came in late and don't know what your goals are, but if you are looking for something REALLY cheap, try eBay for Visual C++ 6.0. Supports Windows 95/98/NT/2000, and if you aren't using xp's commctrl extensions / fancy string functions, it might be worth it |
| 22:39.36 | blast007 | 6.0? eww |
| 22:39.50 | blast007 | that won't even build bzflag anymore ;) |
| 22:40.23 | Constitution | at least it can say hello world :) |
| 22:41.36 | jftsang_ | in that case, you should use HQ9+ then |
| 22:41.41 | jftsang_ | all it does is say Hello World |
| 22:41.56 | blast007 | though it was a big upgrade from using Borland C++ 4.5 |
| 22:42.30 | awilcox | look, VC++6 can do anything VC++7.1 can do, except managed extensions and fancy XP stuff |
| 22:42.46 | jftsang | I need to go now, bye |
| 22:42.52 | awilcox | MessageBox() and CreateWindowEx() didn't change :P |
| 22:42.55 | Webstrand | well thanks for all you help i'll check into getting VC |
| 22:42.59 | awilcox | bye jftsang. |
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| 22:49.49 | JeffM | VC8 is nice |
| 22:49.59 | JeffM | many things are better then 7.1 |
| 22:49.59 | awilcox | it's too big to fit on my already-overfilled laptop |
| 22:50.09 | JeffM | what compiler do they have you use now? |
| 22:50.18 | awilcox | JeffM: 7.1 |
| 22:50.25 | JeffM | then replace that |
| 22:50.30 | JeffM | shoudn't be much larger |
| 22:50.36 | awilcox | ...I had the whole VS.NET package |
| 22:50.36 | Winny | awilcox, how big is the drive? |
| 22:50.46 | awilcox | Winny: 30GB, and yes it is too small for nowadays. |
| 22:50.55 | JeffM | and this is your work machine? |
| 22:50.58 | Winny | ..your drive it too small :p |
| 22:51.01 | awilcox | yes. |
| 22:51.10 | JeffM | tell them to provide you with a new one |
| 22:51.14 | awilcox | heh. |
| 22:51.17 | awilcox | a new disk? |
| 22:51.21 | JeffM | if they won't then you have too much non work related stuff |
| 22:51.29 | JeffM | machine or drive, it's there choice |
| 22:51.32 | JeffM | do they own it? |
| 22:51.38 | JeffM | or is it contract stuff? |
| 22:51.48 | blast007 | the smallest drive I have in a laptop is 80GB.. |
| 22:51.49 | awilcox | JeffM: meh, it's really technical |
| 22:51.57 | awilcox | I suppose I own it and it is contract stuff |
| 22:52.02 | JeffM | ok |
| 22:52.08 | awilcox | it's more complicated, but basically, contract stuuff |
| 22:52.08 | JeffM | then it is your choice for the hardware |
| 22:52.12 | Erroneous | I have 8 and 7.1 installed on my machine with the same options. 7.1 is 90mb bigger than 8.0. |
| 22:52.31 | JeffM | if you wish to continue contracting, and odn't have the space, then you ether get a new drive, or don't contract anymore |
| 22:52.46 | awilcox | JeffM: lol, true. |
| 22:53.12 | awilcox | Erroneous: interesting. thing is, can I remove just VC from 7.1 and leave the rest of VS.NET installed? |
| 22:53.14 | JeffM | I mean your an adult doing your own biz, it's not like it's rocket science |
| 22:53.36 | JeffM | awilcox, why? just upgrade the other languages. |
| 22:53.48 | Erroneous | why do you want the rest of 7.1? |
| 22:53.50 | awilcox | JeffM: eh, I use the other languages for personal use |
| 22:54.03 | Erroneous | .NET 2 is WAAAYY better than .NET 1 |
| 22:54.03 | awilcox | the only ones I do *work* with is VC and VC# |
| 22:54.07 | JeffM | so? |
| 22:54.10 | JeffM | upgrade them |
| 22:54.19 | JeffM | or get a bigger drive |
| 22:54.21 | awilcox | JeffM: I'd have to use the express edition. |
| 22:54.22 | JeffM | it's THAT simple |
| 22:54.33 | JeffM | be an adult and make the choice ;) |
| 22:54.34 | awilcox | eh, I guess I could just use the express edition |
| 22:54.52 | awilcox | prolly would use less disk space than 7.1 Enterprise Architect :P |
| 22:54.53 | JeffM | who owns the VC8? |
| 22:54.54 | blast007 | hey look, a 60GB drive for $54, imagine that |
| 22:54.56 | Erroneous | or get all of visual studio when you upgrade |
| 22:55.37 | blast007 | or an 80GB for $60... drives are cheap :P |
| 22:55.37 | awilcox | JeffM: *technically* the contractee(is that the word?) |
| 22:55.37 | Erroneous | business expenses are conveniently tax-deductable |
| 22:55.37 | JeffM | if they are providing you with the VC8 with just VC++ then it's your choice to keep your personal crap on your work machine |
| 22:55.46 | JeffM | and if you let personal crap affect your biz, then you are a bad contractor |
| 22:55.50 | Winny | I just got a 160gb lappy drive for like 100$ |
| 22:56.00 | JeffM | yeah dude, your basicly bickering for 100$ |
| 22:56.05 | JeffM | suck it up and get a drive |
| 22:56.22 | Winny | and a backup drive too, if you don't already :) |
| 22:56.26 | awilcox | hm. it is near eol. |
| 22:56.39 | JeffM | buy an exernal 2.5 inch drive |
| 22:56.48 | JeffM | mirror your drive to it |
| 22:56.51 | JeffM | open it up |
| 22:56.56 | JeffM | pull out the new larger one |
| 22:56.59 | JeffM | put it in laptop |
| 22:57.05 | JeffM | put opld 30 gig in external case |
| 22:57.07 | JeffM | use as backup |
| 22:57.18 | awilcox | ooh. then the 30G is still used. |
| 22:57.20 | JeffM | get on with life and live in the 21st centruy |
| 22:57.44 | JeffM | it's NOT rocket science |
| 22:58.44 | awilcox | or I could remove VS7.1, install VC8, and then wait the two months until I get the new desktop with 500GB hard disk |
| 22:58.54 | JeffM | awilcox, are you THAT cheap? |
| 22:58.58 | JeffM | that's sad |
| 22:59.24 | awilcox | JeffM: the 160 gig would be virtually unused after two months |
| 22:59.31 | JeffM | then get an 80 |
| 22:59.34 | JeffM | for 60$ |
| 22:59.46 | JeffM | you have many options |
| 22:59.56 | JeffM | all you have to do is stop making excuses |
| 23:00.04 | awilcox | an 80gig for 60$...that's not bad... |
| 23:00.06 | JeffM | and sepreate your work from personal and get soemthing done |
| 23:00.58 | javaJake | Argh. BZFlag stinks, I hate it, and it isn't fun. I wish I'd stop playing it 3 hours a day. :P |
| 23:00.58 | JeffM | drives are drives they always have uses |
| 23:01.13 | JeffM | javaJake, then don't play |
| 23:01.26 | javaJake | ;) |
| 23:01.56 | JeffM | don't forget /part |
| 23:01.58 | Winny | or the uninsta.. wait, there's no uninstller for OS X! |
| 23:02.00 | javaJake | heehh |
| 23:02.18 | awilcox | Winny: rm /Applications/BZFlag.app |
| 23:02.27 | Winny | what about the program files? :) |
| 23:02.37 | javaJake | They go with that |
| 23:02.39 | JeffM | or make the mac run better |
| 23:02.44 | javaJake | The only thing left is personal settings |
| 23:02.44 | JeffM | rm /Applications |
| 23:02.47 | javaJake | :P |
| 23:02.50 | awilcox | lol. |
| 23:03.00 | Winny | javaJake: yeah, "only" thing... |
| 23:03.02 | JeffM | javaJake, and you came here just to complain about it because? |
| 23:04.14 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@59.154.120.204) |
| 23:04.18 | awilcox | ...because you're on OS X and need Winny to tell you how to rm? :P |
| 23:04.41 | JeffM | it isn't our job to do OS support |
| 23:04.52 | JeffM | specialy for people that say horible things about our livelyhood |
| 23:05.34 | javaJake | JeffM: I was joking around |
| 23:05.55 | JeffM | sure you were |
| 23:06.41 | javaJake | BZFlag is the best game I've experienced, period. Everyone I show it to ends up playing it at home. :P |
| 23:06.51 | JeffM | wow you don't play many games then do you? |
| 23:08.18 | awilcox | JeffM: I've played many games, and bzflag is the only one worth keeping, to be sure. you may not think it's "all that", possibly because you've seen the 'ugly' code, but some of us players really do like it. |
| 23:08.44 | JeffM | I'm sure you do like it |
| 23:08.59 | JeffM | but I find it hard to belive when somone says it is the BEST game |
| 23:09.03 | javaJake | :P |
| 23:09.08 | JeffM | to me that says a very small sample of games |
| 23:09.16 | JeffM | it's not a horible game |
| 23:09.21 | JeffM | but it's not in the class of bests |
| 23:09.22 | javaJake | Hey, I'm a freebie, what can I say? :) |
| 23:09.32 | JeffM | and I don't mean from code |
| 23:09.36 | JeffM | I mean from end user experience |
| 23:09.43 | JeffM | it's simple and sure people like that |
| 23:09.48 | JeffM | I UNDERSTAND that |
| 23:10.00 | javaJake | The diverse strategy is amazing, and the administration capabilities (i.e. voting) is awesome. |
| 23:10.02 | awilcox | most games either involve killing people (not tanks), and/or a brand new video card that most people cannot afford. bzflag is neither |
| 23:10.09 | JeffM | and yes in the free world there is a smaller sample set of games. |
| 23:10.19 | JeffM | bzflag is a FPS |
| 23:10.30 | JeffM | surgar coat it if you want |
| 23:10.33 | JeffM | you kill things |
| 23:10.34 | javaJake | With BZFlag, I don't need a trigger-finger: I need to think fast about many things. _That's_ exactly what I enjoy. |
| 23:10.43 | JeffM | they just happen to not bleed |
| 23:10.46 | javaJake | :P |
| 23:10.52 | JeffM | you can stop with the :P |
| 23:10.54 | JeffM | it's stupiod |
| 23:11.05 | awilcox | javaJake has a point there too, it's not just "shoot everything in your path", there is actual strategy. |
| 23:11.08 | javaJake | BZFlag is an FPS, yes, but unlike other FPS's the joy is not in seeing people die (except for that "hoorah" victorious feeling) |
| 23:11.18 | JeffM | awilcox, depends on the server |
| 23:11.23 | javaJake | :P |
| 23:11.24 | javaJake | ;) |
| 23:11.24 | JeffM | go play on a 20 shot pray and spray |
| 23:11.34 | awilcox | I don't play FFA |
| 23:11.39 | javaJake | That's why I don't play on 20-shot servers |
| 23:11.46 | JeffM | then you cant' make that generalsiation about the entire game ;) |
| 23:11.53 | JeffM | and all it's players |
| 23:12.57 | JeffM | but when you say "best" game with out any real qualifyers you throw up images of comparing bz to stuff like portal, and there is 0 contest there |
| 23:13.29 | javaJake | haha |
| 23:13.32 | JeffM | then go get anotehr drive |
| 23:13.42 | JeffM | and stop yer complainin ;) |
| 23:13.48 | awilcox | JeffM: will do. |
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