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| 01:01.52 | F687s | stupid pinwheel... |
| 01:06.12 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:10.09 | F687s | I'll remember that... |
| 01:17.03 | inchworm | pinwheel of death? |
| 01:19.17 | Winny | OS X spinning cursor |
| 01:20.45 | F687s | better than a BSOD ;-) |
| 01:21.02 | Winny | never had one |
| 01:21.03 | Winny | :O |
| 01:21.06 | Winny | well, never on XP |
| 01:21.22 | Winny | used to get em all the time on 98 :p |
| 01:21.25 | F687s | migrate to 98 for the full experience |
| 01:21.27 | F687s | heh |
| 01:21.29 | Winny | lol |
| 01:21.39 | Winny | :) |
| 01:22.06 | inchworm | NT should be almost stable... |
| 01:22.14 | L4m3r | I haven't had a BSOD since I replaced the bad ram |
| 01:22.19 | L4m3r | lol |
| 01:22.31 | inchworm | that can do it... |
| 01:23.03 | inchworm | i went through 2 bad DDR sticks in a row once... |
| 01:23.18 | inchworm | really made me scratch my head and wonder if the MB wasn't fried... |
| 01:23.31 | L4m3r | yeah, I thought my mobo was flaky too |
| 01:23.53 | L4m3r | but when I finally ordered some new DDR (at a painful price) it ran great |
| 01:23.58 | inchworm | memtest86 was a big help :) |
| 01:24.02 | L4m3r | yeah |
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| 01:33.53 | spldart | memtest+ saves lives |
| 01:34.50 | L4m3r | and mobos |
| 01:40.18 | inchworm | heh |
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| 02:41.58 | nn64 | hi again |
| 02:42.24 | nn64 | bzfmaps.net is now basically ready for users :) |
| 02:51.04 | nn64 | http://www.bzfmaps.net/photo/server/1 |
| 02:51.15 | nn64 | that is a picture of the main bzfmaps.net server |
| 02:52.16 | blast007 | we have one of those at work |
| 02:52.26 | blast007 | what model #? |
| 02:53.50 | JeffM | where is the UPS? |
| 02:55.06 | nn64 | In that picture it is the black big looking power box behind the server |
| 02:55.52 | nn64 | brb |
| 02:56.29 | JeffM | and how long does that run the box for? |
| 02:58.02 | spldart | your house is older than my house |
| 02:59.44 | blast007 | JeffM: probably not long |
| 02:59.55 | blast007 | the server we have like that at work has 4 SCSI drives in it ;) |
| 02:59.58 | blast007 | not sure about his |
| 03:00.13 | blast007 | but it's also a dual PIII capable board |
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| 03:00.41 | blast007 | looks like he has another power strip attached to the UPS though |
| 03:02.10 | spldart | Proofread more... 'General Decusition' http://www.bzfmaps.net/forum |
| 03:02.13 | spldart | oopsie |
| 03:02.40 | spldart | 'Map Releaces' The public can be a great critic |
| 03:10.35 | nn64 | spldart, ours is over 100 years old :) |
| 03:11.16 | nn64 | but is has all new wireing |
| 03:11.31 | blast007 | nn64: how long does the UPS last if the power goes out? |
| 03:11.39 | blast007 | 10 minutes? |
| 03:12.06 | nn64 | more like 15/20 |
| 03:12.25 | nn64 | 1 computer 1 switch and 1 modem |
| 03:12.31 | blast007 | how long does your gas generator last? |
| 03:14.59 | nn64 | blast007, have you played around with the 50 some thinkgs you can do on the sight ( thats just standard user ) ? |
| 03:15.19 | nn64 | things* |
| 03:17.38 | nn64 | see the way it's setup is that you get points added to your accound depending on what / how much you do this will eventually add you to greater privlages |
| 03:17.38 | nn64 | on the sight depending on your points threshold |
| 03:17.38 | nn64 | accound * was supposed to be account |
| 03:18.28 | nn64 | I just finished a 4 or 5 hour primary configuration so it's close to ready to be used |
| 03:18.59 | *** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-252-006.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:19.16 | blast007 | nn64: no, I haven't even opened your site |
| 03:20.32 | nn64 | blast007, well maybe soon then |
| 03:20.57 | blast007 | well, actually I did go to the site, but only to your picture of the server |
| 03:22.17 | nn64 | well not many users have joined yet and I finally got the primary configuration done so expect more content soon |
| 03:23.48 | nn64 | blast007, maby you could add some stuff; I admit right now it looks really simple from the outside but when you register it looks huge on what you can do |
| 03:23.54 | blast007 | no thx |
| 03:24.15 | blast007 | I don't trust my information stored on your server |
| 03:48.30 | nn64 | Ok the new home page is up |
| 03:49.19 | nn64 | It Describes most of what you can do as a registered user. |
| 04:07.24 | L4m3r | while you're at it, add a status/news page so you don't need to spam it in the channel... |
| 04:12.11 | spldart | w0rd |
| 04:13.00 | JeffM | IRC is not your blog |
| 04:13.10 | nn64 | ok so now it will create a subdomain for all regestering users |
| 04:14.02 | JeffM | nn64, remember that talk we had about 1) us not caring about what you do every moment of the day, and 2) not seting yourself up for failure by releasing thigns too soon? |
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| 05:19.40 | nn64 | is there any way i can get the php code the stats.bzflag.org uses so i can implement it in to bzfmaps.net |
| 05:20.59 | JeffM | it's in subversion |
| 05:21.05 | JeffM | web dir |
| 05:21.20 | nn64 | ok cool thanks |
| 05:21.23 | nn64 | :) |
| 05:21.42 | a_meteorite | db directory for stats frontend |
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| 05:23.58 | JeffM | ahh yeah web is the mainpage isn't it? |
| 05:25.32 | nn64 | I like how you can make a page have a vertual url. All the pages are actually stored in mysql insted of real files ; So it is really easy to give a name to a page; here is the first map I hosted on my sight's page; http://www.bzfmaps.net/maps/knoxcorner/snipedout |
| 05:25.54 | JeffM | that's like normal web programing man |
| 05:26.22 | nn64 | oh ; I really didn't know it was that common |
| 05:26.27 | blast007 | .htaccess ftw |
| 05:26.40 | JeffM | yeah man, dabase drive sites are VERY common |
| 05:26.44 | JeffM | like every blog |
| 05:27.02 | a_meteorite | if everything was static, we'd still be in the 90s |
| 05:27.15 | a_meteorite | and would be nearly impossible to maintain without lots of effort.. |
| 05:27.18 | blast007 | a_meteorite: oh god, we're not?? where am I! |
| 05:27.27 | a_meteorite | blast007: in my time warp |
| 05:27.38 | blast007 | noo! that means my Windows 3.1 machine is outdated! |
| 05:28.00 | a_meteorite | don't try installing windows 3.1 on that quad p3 of yours |
| 05:28.25 | nn64 | ok; is the directory path a direct link inbetween mysql and apache or is it mysql -> php -> apache |
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| 05:28.45 | a_meteorite | nn64: I think you're thinking backwards |
| 05:29.20 | nn64 | yes but the prosses goes both ways ; request and answer |
| 05:29.40 | nn64 | or does one direction skip a step |
| 05:29.41 | a_meteorite | um, yeah. but your thought process was request just a moment ago. |
| 05:30.23 | a_meteorite | php and mysql work together... it can read or write. |
| 05:30.37 | a_meteorite | you don't need php or mysql, you can have just apache. |
| 05:31.32 | nn64 | ok |
| 05:32.27 | blast007 | you don't need apache either, you can just type all the HTML by hand when someone requests it |
| 05:32.35 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 05:32.56 | a_meteorite | and there are web servers besides apache, I swear by lighttpd and avoid it when I can |
| 05:33.01 | blast007 | but then you'd probably get <fawnt> tags |
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| 05:33.12 | nn64 | a_meteorite, I'm working on the admin side config for all the content types / options / etc. it took me 3houers atleast today man when you have drupal with 50 modules things get big fast |
| 05:33.15 | a_meteorite | *avoid apache |
| 05:33.54 | a_meteorite | nn64: I have a feeling if you need 50 modules, you're using the wrong CMS or trying to do what it wasn't designed to do |
| 05:34.03 | nn64 | i like thttpd it is really nice for quick file transfur between sevral computers |
| 05:34.09 | AAA_awright | a_meteorite is now going to say get lighttpd instead |
| 05:34.20 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: lighttpd is not a CMS, so no. |
| 05:34.53 | spldart | no apache? |
| 05:35.34 | AAA_awright | Apache is just good. It isn't broken. |
| 05:37.01 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: apparently you've never seen a "loaded" apache... lighttpd serves up just as much with a tenth of the memory and a tenth of the CPU... I've seen lighttpd do hundreds of requests per seconds for a static file in a couple percent of CPU and just as much memory, whereas apache was eating up a good 50% and ate up memory like there was no end in sight... |
| 05:37.17 | a_meteorite | then again, this channel isn't about web servers, so I suggest you try lighttpd and make your own informed opinion :) |
| 05:37.18 | nn64 | a_meteorite, well look at the drupal site for there cms they have somewhere around 1000 modules for there cms modules atleast the big ones have multipal parts and certian modules depend on other modules ; I think of drupal as this simple little cms that holds togother and loads modules which end up doing all the work |
| 05:37.53 | AAA_awright | lighttpd does have a killer config file format though. I don't know what problem apache has with vhosts. |
| 05:37.56 | blast007 | "hey look, drupal is doing my laundry now!" |
| 05:38.03 | nn64 | lol |
| 05:38.14 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: uh, there is no problem with apache's vhosts. |
| 05:38.23 | a_meteorite | they're just kinda funky, imho... |
| 05:38.24 | AAA_awright | a_meteorite: Getting them to work |
| 05:38.31 | a_meteorite | once they're working, they work |
| 05:38.49 | AAA_awright | Yeah. If you can get them to work. |
| 05:38.51 | nn64 | I hope i will soon fiqure out how to wright a module to host bzfs servers automatically |
| 05:39.03 | a_meteorite | my favorite thing about lighttpd is it has an option to do automatic vhosts based on the host header (and a default vhost in case you have some weird hosts pointing to your IP) |
| 05:39.04 | AAA_awright | nn64: oh, my specalty |
| 05:39.29 | AAA_awright | Hop over to #bzstocks where I work on programs that do just that |
| 05:40.03 | nn64 | AAA_awright, so your good at wrighting php stuff you or anyone willing to help it would be great |
| 05:40.24 | a_meteorite | nn64: that is, when he has time after my projects :) |
| 05:40.35 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright and I do lots of BZFX stuff... ;) |
| 05:40.44 | AAA_awright | Yeah. |
| 05:41.22 | nn64 | I'm also trying to figure out the devel modules as well as the svn module I installed on bzfmaps.net |
| 05:42.22 | nn64 | for subversion map system with bzflag api etc big plans :) |
| 05:43.03 | AAA_awright | Ultimately I plan on porting anything bzflag related into one big php application. Alright, not really :p |
| 05:43.12 | nn64 | most of the stuff is already there on the sight it just has to be enabled configed and stuff written for it |
| 05:43.23 | AAA_awright | nn64: Any links? |
| 05:44.19 | nn64 | hum, well first creat and account on bzfmaps.net then I can set you a role which will determine what you can do |
| 05:44.29 | nn64 | admin etc |
| 05:44.55 | nn64 | I really like the user points system |
| 05:45.35 | nn64 | it gives you points for actions you do .... ie posting a page |
| 05:45.47 | a_meteorite | and what good are these points? |
| 05:46.52 | nn64 | that the admin can set a role user points threshold so the more active you are on the sight the more privileges you get |
| 05:47.19 | Winny | heh |
| 05:47.21 | a_meteorite | so that allows anyone who posts obsessively to take control of the site |
| 05:47.21 | AAA_awright | ew |
| 05:47.25 | nn64 | and if you become inactive your points will start diminishing perodically |
| 05:47.35 | AAA_awright | ew ew |
| 05:47.45 | nn64 | by periods of time since you last visited |
| 05:47.55 | AAA_awright | Just use a karma system |
| 05:48.15 | AAA_awright | Quality matters. I annoy meteorite saying that all too often. |
| 05:48.42 | nn64 | no it dosen't because you can exempt roles you can as admin take away as many points / give pints to a person |
| 05:48.59 | nn64 | you can also set the role points really high |
| 05:49.29 | nn64 | also you set which actions gain points and how many points |
| 05:49.40 | Winny | why will people be usng your "website" instead of their own? |
| 05:50.01 | AAA_awright | A karma system. People can vote articles up or down, people who have a history of highly rated things have higher karma. |
| 05:51.29 | a_meteorite | AAA_awright: which is easily rigged |
| 05:51.57 | AAA_awright | Only people with good karma have real influence |
| 05:51.58 | nn64 | that is for them to decide the way i enginered my websight is for the most user access / to make and pass information and content in a large scale and to be setup so smaller hosters can use the websight as literally there own using groups etc .... also there is the my bzfmaps.net section where users can create there own little sub sight |
| 05:53.18 | Winny | "site", not "sight" |
| 05:54.05 | a_meteorite | ditto |
| 05:54.26 | nn64 | One more thing that also comes in handy since the hole cms is moduled if a section or piece is causing problems .. ie spaming / over use you can easly disable it |
| 05:54.48 | Winny | "whole", not "hole" |
| 05:54.59 | Winny | a hole is a thing in the ground |
| 05:55.31 | nn64 | I only like 75% of the modules available (already downloaded and extracted ) enabled |
| 05:55.57 | Winny | ok, that helps your spelling how? |
| 05:56.44 | nn64 | So that is a little of the planning behind my site. The site has a spellchecker, Winny |
| 05:57.12 | AAA_awright | .... ........ |
| 05:57.13 | a_meteorite | I think only you would need the spellchecker |
| 05:57.48 | nn64 | lol |
| 05:58.48 | a_meteorite | And you'd need a pretty good one to see where you used the wrong homophonous form of the word |
| 05:59.14 | a_meteorite | hole vs whole, their vs they're... |
| 05:59.23 | AAA_awright | they're = they are |
| 06:01.17 | blast007 | the spellchecker won't work |
| 06:01.27 | blast007 | since "hole" is a real word... it's just the wrong word |
| 06:01.28 | spldart | nazi's... ala sp |
| 06:01.34 | JeffM | you don't need a spell checker, you just need to think |
| 06:03.18 | a_meteorite | that's left brain intensive |
| 06:04.13 | JeffM | I'm a bad speller |
| 06:04.24 | JeffM | but at least I TRY to get the right word |
| 06:04.56 | a_meteorite | yeah, you've gotten better :) |
| 06:05.03 | JeffM | no I haven't |
| 06:05.16 | JeffM | you're just used to it |
| 06:06.26 | AAA_awright | Stop being so humble ;) |
| 06:06.33 | JeffM | no |
| 06:14.27 | nn64 | Personally I think JeffM is a ausom admin for the bzflag.org website |
| 06:14.37 | spldart | meh |
| 06:14.41 | spldart | sp |
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| 06:17.33 | JeffM | 1) I have nothing to do with the Apple User Society of Melbone, and 2) I'm not |
| 06:17.56 | JeffM | I mean do you even TRY to spell? how do you get by in school? |
| 06:17.57 | nn64 | g2g I hit mass negative time again ; I always miss the clocks time so I' now am up at 1 AM with a big day tomarrow so I'm currently -3 houres time left |
| 06:18.25 | JeffM | huh? |
| 06:21.02 | spldart | I.. really.. wonder... No.. nm |
| 06:21.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 06:21.29 | a_meteorite | err... ok... we don't need a replay of what you are doing nn64 |
| 06:21.37 | *** kick/#bzflag [nn64!n=Jeff@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |
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| 11:44.58 | whodaman- | dopefish7590 is on a rampage |
| 11:45.28 | whodaman- | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=120271#120271 - we already have one of those |
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| 12:39.28 | whodaman- | i |
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| 15:41.32 | Winny | ~whodaman--- |
| 15:41.41 | whodaman- | Thanks mate |
| 15:41.46 | Winny | sure |
| 15:42.23 | Winny | ~whodaman-++ |
| 15:42.56 | whodaman- | ~Winny++ |
| 15:43.01 | whodaman- | Winny, works :) |
| 15:43.39 | Winny | finally |
| 15:47.10 | Winny | ~whodaman-++ |
| 15:52.43 | whodaman- | ~Winny++ |
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| 17:08.19 | Winny | lol.. someone pwnd the RIAA's site |
| 17:08.32 | Winny | http://digg.com/security/RIAA_Website_Wiped_Clean_by_Hackers_2 |
| 17:09.19 | whodaman- | rofl |
| 17:11.17 | sigonasr2 | heh |
| 17:15.34 | spldart | ROFL |
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| 17:51.40 | Winny | how do I lift a rangeban? |
| 17:51.51 | Winny | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:52.17 | Winny | does one need to edit the banfile? |
| 17:52.37 | JeffM | has to be the same exact string you used to ban |
| 17:52.52 | whodaman- | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:53.07 | Winny | JeffM, it is |
| 17:53.11 | Winny | *.ca.comcast.net |
| 17:53.19 | JeffM | then check the file make sure it's still there |
| 17:53.57 | Winny | when I run /hostbanlist it's there |
| 17:54.03 | Winny | I can't check the file.. it's not my server |
| 17:54.16 | JeffM | unban is suposed to work |
| 17:54.20 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:54.52 | Winny | hmm |
| 17:54.53 | Winny | weird |
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| 17:56.14 | JeffM | why do you want to unban that range? |
| 17:56.14 | catay | Winny: shouldn't you do a /hostunban ? |
| 17:56.49 | Winny | JeffM: badgerking doesn't have a whitelist, and a couple players got caught in it |
| 17:56.50 | whodaman- | catay, that's for hostbans only |
| 17:57.16 | JeffM | you are doing a hostban ;) |
| 17:57.24 | JeffM | if it shows in the hostban list |
| 18:01.28 | The_S_in_Boom | i believe i got caught in that hostban |
| 18:01.57 | Winny | I removed it |
| 18:02.00 | Winny | thanks for the help, guys. |
| 18:02.03 | JeffM | your not on comcast |
| 18:02.11 | Winny | Although badgerking really does need a whitelist group |
| 18:02.21 | whodaman- | among other things.. |
| 18:02.32 | The_S_in_Boom | then it was another ban :/ |
| 18:02.32 | Winny | hehe |
| 18:07.19 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter_ (n=scratch@i59F7F0AB.versanet.de) |
| 18:14.08 | *** join/#bzflag Saber_ (n=0saber0@modemcable152.168-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:14.34 | spldart | Can I simply procure a pdcurses.dll and shove it in my system32 dir to run bzadmin from client 2.0.10rc3 or is it more compicated than that? |
| 18:14.48 | JeffM | nope |
| 18:14.50 | spldart | oops... forgot the l |
| 18:14.58 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:15.04 | spldart | Figured it was more complicated... |
| 18:15.08 | JeffM | it complains that it has no DLL now? |
| 18:15.29 | spldart | when I try to start bzadmin outta that client it complains about the dll being missing |
| 18:15.38 | JeffM | just put it in the same dir as the exe |
| 18:15.40 | JeffM | that's it |
| 18:16.23 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 18:16.33 | spldart | But I need to get a copy of it first |
| 18:16.48 | JeffM | grab one from any other verson of BZ ;) |
| 18:16.56 | spldart | ah... |
| 18:16.57 | spldart | thanks |
| 18:17.46 | JeffM | when a DLL is missing, it's not cuse of some complex techincal issue, it's just cus I forgot it ;) |
| 18:21.59 | spldart | odd.. grabbed 2.0.8 and installed it... go to rob pdcurses.dll and it's not even there... but it's bzadmin runs fine.. Maybe I need 2.0.10 |
| 18:22.09 | spldart | but earlier than rc3 |
| 18:22.16 | JeffM | in some of them we linked it static |
| 18:22.35 | JeffM | but yeah why arn't you using the normal .10 installer? |
| 18:22.37 | JeffM | why the rc? |
| 18:23.09 | spldart | I must have been tinkering... I'm doin .10 now |
| 18:28.45 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:29.55 | spldart | linux is so much easier |
| 18:30.06 | spldart | ;-) |
| 18:30.40 | JeffM | missing.so == missing .dll ;) |
| 18:31.32 | spldart | really>? |
| 18:31.52 | spldart | I thought .dll and .lib's were the same equivelant |
| 18:32.07 | JeffM | a so is a lib + a dll |
| 18:32.27 | JeffM | there are more then one type of lib |
| 18:32.34 | *** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 18:32.35 | JeffM | a full static lib is very similar to a dll |
| 18:32.38 | JeffM | in that it has code |
| 18:32.43 | JeffM | and a link table |
| 18:32.49 | *** part/#bzflag Palomides (n=palomide@cpe-24-160-182-53.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 18:32.49 | JeffM | but nothign is exported |
| 18:32.51 | nn-main | hi all |
| 18:32.56 | JeffM | it's meant to be saticly linked |
| 18:32.56 | spldart | ah |
| 18:33.05 | JeffM | a dll has the code, and an export table |
| 18:33.08 | JeffM | but no link info |
| 18:33.16 | JeffM | that link info goes into a very small "export lib" |
| 18:33.28 | JeffM | that the exe that wants to use the dll links to |
| 18:33.36 | JeffM | (if it's an auto linked dll ) |
| 18:33.46 | JeffM | or the exe can load the function pointers manualy ( a pain ) |
| 18:33.54 | JeffM | a .so has all that in one bundle |
| 18:34.08 | JeffM | they are very similar technologies, just difrent packages |
| 18:34.38 | JeffM | so's don't have the concept of "export" tables IIRC, they just export it all. |
| 18:34.39 | nn-main | What is the this file and what language is it written in ? root/modeltool/bzflag/misc/stats/Info.pm |
| 18:34.55 | JeffM | modeltool? |
| 18:34.56 | JeffM | huh? |
| 18:35.04 | JeffM | where did you get that? |
| 18:35.33 | nn-main | oh oups |
| 18:36.38 | nn-main | bzflag/misc/stats/Info.pm; I extracted bzflag svn there and never bothered to move it thust the werd directory |
| 18:37.48 | JeffM | nn-main: we don't care about what you are doing moment by moment |
| 18:38.33 | JeffM | that file is a perl module IIRC |
| 18:38.59 | nn-main | ok thanks |
| 18:39.29 | JeffM | at least that's what the readme says |
| 18:39.35 | spldart | Well.. I guess I should instead type... It's often easier for me to get unmet dependencies tanking care of in linux than windoze :~) |
| 18:39.56 | JeffM | yes the package manager system can make it simpler to get missing software in general |
| 18:39.57 | spldart | Thanks for the little lesson in libraries. I appreciate it :) |
| 18:42.08 | spldart | Welll even outside the package manager system... grabbing stuff the distro doesn't include then possibly having to build other stuff to meet it's dependency... etc... |
| 18:42.37 | JeffM | yeah cross dependency issues can be hell with any system that isn't build fully from source, windows or nix |
| 18:44.53 | nn-main | jeffm would you mind reminding me where that stats php thing was in the svn please |
| 19:03.05 | JeffM | db |
| 19:04.38 | nn-main | ok thanks :) |
| 19:08.58 | Winny | heh |
| 19:11.06 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@24-159-201-10.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 19:14.09 | nn-main | Jeffm I'm a little confused ? How does the serverlist.php userlist and user search grab data. It seems to be pointing to my sql but then where and how does my sql get the data form the listing service or am i really confused on how the system works.. Can you guys clarify my understanding of the listing system please |
| 19:14.41 | JeffM | the list is a php page |
| 19:14.48 | JeffM | it puts servers in the sql database |
| 19:14.59 | JeffM | bzbb is a php site, it puts users in the sql database |
| 19:15.22 | JeffM | the stats site is a php site, it gets the list of servers from the list server and then goes and connects to each one of htem |
| 19:15.24 | JeffM | them |
| 19:15.32 | JeffM | and does a player query |
| 19:15.41 | JeffM | then puts that info into the sql database |
| 19:15.53 | JeffM | then the various list pages go and sort and show that data |
| 19:16.26 | nn-main | ok so then how can my sight poll data form the bzflag site to display that informaion |
| 19:16.44 | JeffM | you can't |
| 19:16.49 | JeffM | you'd have to poll the servers directly |
| 19:16.55 | JeffM | and that is bad form |
| 19:16.59 | *** join/#bzflag Palomides (n=palomide@cpe-24-160-182-53.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 19:17.01 | JeffM | since we have enouh pollers allready |
| 19:17.11 | JeffM | why do you need to replicate a service we already have? |
| 19:17.28 | Winny | JeffM: why not have one main site grab the data, and then the others get it off that? Or is that planned already? |
| 19:17.39 | JeffM | that is what we'd like to do |
| 19:17.40 | JeffM | have an interface page |
| 19:17.49 | JeffM | so that the pollers could get the push data from the list server |
| 19:17.53 | ts | well, "grab" like polling is bad |
| 19:17.56 | JeffM | and have servers do a push client query |
| 19:18.05 | JeffM | then we'd have one point of interface to all sites |
| 19:18.12 | JeffM | but thats not implemented at this time |
| 19:18.18 | JeffM | pushing > polling |
| 19:19.29 | JeffM | then we can generate feeds and stuff like CIA does |
| 19:19.41 | JeffM | that will open up a lot more uses for external websites |
| 19:20.51 | nn-main | Well if its like that then how does the bzfs client push what they curently have and how do the hundreds of bzflag clients pool the server list |
| 19:21.16 | JeffM | when a bzfs server starts it contacts the list server and adds itself |
| 19:21.30 | JeffM | when a player join's the bzfs server contacts the list server and updates it's player count |
| 19:21.46 | JeffM | every 30 min the bzfs server contacts the list and updates it's status. |
| 19:22.02 | Winny | if you run a /shutdownserver, does it contact then, too? |
| 19:22.03 | JeffM | when a bzflag client starts it contacts the list server and gets a server listing and a token |
| 19:22.09 | JeffM | dunno |
| 19:22.19 | blast007 | Winny: yeah, it does, to remove the server |
| 19:22.28 | blast007 | even Ctrl+C does that, iirc |
| 19:22.28 | Winny | that's what I figured |
| 19:22.46 | Winny | hmm, it never used to, I thought, since my server would always be stuck there |
| 19:23.10 | JeffM | at present time only the stuff show in the list server is sent by the game server to the list server ( game type, teams, player coutns, flag type, etc..) |
| 19:23.10 | nn-main | so if the client can contact the list server why can a php site do the same |
| 19:23.18 | JeffM | a php site can |
| 19:23.23 | JeffM | that's how they work |
| 19:23.31 | JeffM | they get the text of the list server |
| 19:23.32 | JeffM | and poll |
| 19:23.49 | JeffM | they do not get access to the database directly |
| 19:24.00 | nn-main | is there code for that in the svn ? |
| 19:24.05 | blast007 | for what? |
| 19:24.13 | nn-main | that list server access |
| 19:24.25 | blast007 | ? |
| 19:24.39 | JeffM | that's just a URL call |
| 19:24.41 | blast007 | the list server itself is in SVN |
| 19:25.14 | JeffM | http://db.bzflag.org/db/?action=LIST |
| 19:25.27 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter_ (n=scratch@i577B50D2.versanet.de) |
| 19:25.48 | JeffM | blast007: does the stats site poll the list text still or does it yank from the db? |
| 19:25.59 | nn-main | ok thanks for explaning that JeffM :) it helps a lot. |
| 19:26.10 | blast007 | probably the text |
| 19:26.23 | blast007 | since it's designed to be run from any host |
| 19:26.40 | JeffM | yeah but I thought someone did a mod to make it pull from db for our use |
| 19:26.41 | blast007 | and the stats site itself doesn't poll the list |
| 19:26.50 | blast007 | the perl script that update stuff does |
| 19:26.52 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:26.55 | JeffM | that's right |
| 19:26.57 | JeffM | perl backend |
| 19:27.01 | nn-main | wait when i did that i get somthing like this 0.linuxceptional.com:5156 BZFS0026 007a00050000001e0000000000001e000202070007020700070005 208.111.3.150 Bladlander: Eria Ziel map by w00t! Fast Server, Fat Pipe, Auto Flag Resets. |
| 19:27.14 | JeffM | nn-main: that is the list |
| 19:27.15 | blast007 | nn-main: yeah, amazing, isn't it |
| 19:27.26 | JeffM | that's the data sent to clients |
| 19:27.53 | nn-main | so is there php some place that decodes that |
| 19:27.57 | JeffM | host:port protocoll game_options ip server_description |
| 19:28.20 | JeffM | ther perls script does that word |
| 19:28.20 | blast007 | nn-main: no |
| 19:28.28 | JeffM | well there IS php, we don't have it tho |
| 19:29.54 | JeffM | strayer's stuff is all php IIRC |
| 19:29.54 | blast007 | I have some on *my* server ;) |
| 19:29.54 | JeffM | nn-main: simplest thing is to look at how the client does it |
| 19:29.55 | JeffM | you are not going to find a "drop in" solution for what you want to do |
| 19:29.55 | blast007 | I rewrote the query script in PHP.. though it was going into an infinite loop, and hogging my CPU, so I turned it off |
| 19:29.55 | blast007 | JeffM: what IS he trying to do? |
| 19:29.55 | JeffM | an API page on our site would be so much better |
| 19:29.55 | JeffM | blast007: integrate stats into his website |
| 19:30.01 | blast007 | there's a bzfquery.php file for that |
| 19:30.10 | blast007 | in the bzflag directory under misc/ |
| 19:30.14 | blast007 | he could query his servers |
| 19:30.20 | blast007 | bzflag module* |
| 19:30.27 | JeffM | that's to get player counts |
| 19:30.29 | JeffM | right? |
| 19:30.53 | blast007 | can't even remember if that has all the fixes |
| 19:31.06 | blast007 | there was a patch someone released for it, and I forget if I applied it |
| 19:31.30 | JeffM | it's such a bad method of data acquision |
| 19:31.43 | blast007 | yup |
| 19:31.51 | JeffM | wonder how much to the list query it would add to push that data just in a bin blob to the list |
| 19:32.06 | blast007 | meh |
| 19:32.16 | JeffM | so not that much? |
| 19:32.26 | blast007 | I don't think it would be too bad |
| 19:32.33 | JeffM | it'd be nice to have it |
| 19:32.47 | JeffM | it may not have accurate scores, but then we could do friends lists, etc.. |
| 19:33.03 | blast007 | instead of having a huge number of queries every 5 minutes, we could have them spread out more evenly |
| 19:33.08 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:33.16 | JeffM | the server could push them when they change |
| 19:33.57 | blast007 | heck, set it up so that the list server can tell them how often to query |
| 19:34.08 | nn-main | lol |
| 19:34.10 | blast007 | so if load goes up, tell them to slow down |
| 19:34.11 | JeffM | optimaly there would BE no query |
| 19:34.19 | blast007 | well, bad word |
| 19:34.22 | JeffM | since they have to contact the list anyway |
| 19:34.28 | JeffM | for listing reasons |
| 19:34.31 | blast007 | yeah |
| 19:34.39 | blast007 | but we're gonna send stats more often |
| 19:34.47 | JeffM | potentialy |
| 19:35.06 | JeffM | yeah you could have the list send out an expected heartbeat time |
| 19:35.12 | blast007 | example: if a server has 8 players online, and nobody leaves/joins (ie, a match server with hour long matches) |
| 19:35.12 | JeffM | and adjust that based on load |
| 19:35.45 | JeffM | the only reason for that would be for instant scores |
| 19:35.48 | nn-main | Thanks blast007 this php query will come in really handy |
| 19:36.04 | JeffM | since they contact the list on a part, they can send the last score for the player on that part update |
| 19:36.16 | JeffM | then longerm stats are fine |
| 19:36.27 | JeffM | longterm |
| 19:36.36 | blast007 | k |
| 19:36.39 | JeffM | if that's all you care about, then you don't need any additional queries |
| 19:36.53 | JeffM | basicly your score is sure to be saved when you leave |
| 19:36.54 | blast007 | one issue is how to handle a missed message |
| 19:36.57 | blast007 | like a player leaving |
| 19:37.13 | JeffM | actualy the current polling system can miss people |
| 19:37.13 | blast007 | I suppose we could send a heartbeat every so often with the currently online players |
| 19:37.18 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:37.34 | JeffM | have the 30 min heartbeat send the current state too |
| 19:37.37 | blast007 | I also wouldn't feel bad about only sending score data for registered players, and tie it all to bzid |
| 19:38.34 | JeffM | yeah I would not cry over that ether |
| 19:38.34 | blast007 | would prevent an anonymous player from affecting the stats of a registered player |
| 19:38.34 | JeffM | I kinda like the idea, cus in most cases the new system would get scores for everyone |
| 19:38.34 | JeffM | regarless of some fixed time. |
| 19:38.46 | JeffM | right now your score is only saved to the last poll |
| 19:38.59 | blast007 | another nice part about tying it to bzid is people can change their name and keep their stats |
| 19:39.00 | JeffM | so I'm guessing a lot ofpeople don't get the last kill or 2 before they part |
| 19:39.05 | JeffM | yeah |
| 19:39.12 | JeffM | they are all good reasons for people to register |
| 19:39.22 | *** part/#bzflag Palomides (n=palomide@cpe-24-160-182-53.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 19:39.25 | JeffM | if you want stats, or want friend notificaiton, register. |
| 19:39.35 | JeffM | I don't think anyone will have an issue with that |
| 19:39.52 | JeffM | we can also have it ignore observers and bots that way |
| 19:39.59 | nn-main | well looking at the page bzfquery.php it would seem the function on this page grabs the data wright off the list at the time the page is accesed so it would be courrent data |
| 19:40.19 | JeffM | nn-main: the list only shows the servers |
| 19:40.31 | JeffM | not the players |
| 19:40.39 | nn-main | oh |
| 19:40.50 | JeffM | and please no wrights here, I like to keep my levels |
| 19:42.27 | blast007 | nn-main: are you sure you're looking at the right file? :P |
| 19:44.35 | JeffM | blast007: how hard would it be not to get some sort of reports on how often players join and part in a day, using the list server? |
| 19:45.37 | nn-main | oh oups I gess i didn't study it as close as I thought. it actually querys the bzfs. Intresting |
| 19:45.49 | blast007 | depends if you're talking about the current list server code that looks like it was made while on drugs |
| 19:46.05 | JeffM | blast007: you know me, I don't care how it's done :) |
| 19:46.16 | blast007 | :) |
| 19:46.26 | nn-main | as long as it works |
| 19:46.30 | nn-main | .... :-D |
| 19:46.42 | JeffM | it dosn't even have to work |
| 19:46.49 | blast007 | heh |
| 19:47.31 | JeffM | on a hearbeat do we send another add or just some sort of update action? |
| 19:47.56 | blast007 | ADD |
| 19:48.02 | JeffM | that sucks |
| 19:48.06 | blast007 | we send ADD's when a player joins/leaves too |
| 19:48.10 | JeffM | well could do it from barsing the logs then |
| 19:48.19 | JeffM | just keep counts for each server |
| 19:48.33 | JeffM | tho you'd not know when they droped off |
| 19:48.44 | blast007 | I'd rather not go that far hacking the current implementation |
| 19:48.49 | JeffM | indeed |
| 19:48.56 | blast007 | if we want new stuff like that, we should look at it from scratch |
| 19:49.12 | JeffM | well that's the kind of queries we could pull if we had the push system |
| 19:49.15 | JeffM | so it'd all go together |
| 20:02.56 | JeffM | now what would be awesome would be the stats system from the first UT, that gave post game reports |
| 20:02.58 | JeffM | as HTML |
| 20:03.12 | JeffM | it had some name, I wonder what it was |
| 20:03.30 | Winny | do an RSS feed ;) |
| 20:03.57 | JeffM | yeah, it'd be cool if the info could be sent to the stats system and it generate a feed URL at the end of every game |
| 20:04.16 | JeffM | then when you sumbmit your match you have the URL that goes with it for ref |
| 20:21.57 | *** join/#bzflag laserball31 (n=djm@c-71-59-113-232.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:22.22 | laserball31 | JeffM |
| 20:22.30 | JeffM | laserball31 |
| 20:22.37 | laserball31 | Im having a little trouble |
| 20:22.53 | laserball31 | When i try to join my own server with my cheat client |
| 20:22.57 | laserball31 | I join |
| 20:22.59 | spldart | ??? |
| 20:23.03 | laserball31 | but i cant talk |
| 20:23.04 | JeffM | we dpmt |
| 20:23.12 | JeffM | we don't support cheat clientgs |
| 20:23.14 | JeffM | clients |
| 20:23.33 | laserball31 | But why is it that i cant connect? |
| 20:23.37 | JeffM | don't know |
| 20:23.39 | JeffM | don't care |
| 20:23.44 | JeffM | the IRC channel is not to help with cheats |
| 20:23.47 | JeffM | in any way |
| 20:23.51 | F687s | does it work with a stock client? |
| 20:23.57 | spldart | meh |
| 20:24.11 | laserball31 | yes in regular client |
| 20:24.15 | spldart | If he can mod his own code or build from altered source he can fix it himself |
| 20:24.16 | JeffM | then you broke something |
| 20:24.22 | JeffM | take your cheating client elsewerhe |
| 20:24.26 | JeffM | indedd |
| 20:24.32 | laserball31 | ok |
| 20:25.16 | *** join/#bzflag redbaron3 (n=4423ee41@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-a9eac92d6ae2ad8d) |
| 20:25.58 | F687s | good question... |
| 20:26.00 | Winny | no idea |
| 20:26.04 | Winny | stupidity? |
| 20:26.34 | whodaman- | lol |
| 20:26.36 | spldart | Yeah.. but what kind? Social ineptitude or some other form of oblivious attitude? |
| 20:26.46 | Winny | yes |
| 20:26.47 | Winny | :p |
| 20:26.48 | spldart | LOL |
| 20:27.13 | Winny | ;) |
| 20:27.40 | spldart | der dee der dee duhrr.. Hay Law enforcement officer? Why does my radar jammer not work with your particular model radar gun? |
| 20:29.27 | nn-main | I really need some help im still having that problem with bzfs where it randomly for no reason won't start as a standard user dosen't |
| 20:29.46 | Winny | uh |
| 20:29.51 | Winny | it's starting as root, then? |
| 20:29.59 | nn-main | no |
| 20:30.36 | Winny | " where it randomly for no reason won't start as a standard user", that seems to imply it's starting as different kind of user.. elaborate. |
| 20:30.58 | nn-main | each ssh user runs there own bzfs but every so often I have no idea why it will not start from the users account |
| 20:31.10 | F687s | mine starts okay |
| 20:31.42 | JeffM | nn-main: does it give an error? |
| 20:31.44 | Winny | define not starting... an error? it segfaults? |
| 20:31.50 | Winny | pah, jeff beat me |
| 20:32.22 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:32.23 | F687s | are you starting the /usr/local/bin/bzfs ? |
| 20:32.28 | nn-main | Error : unable to start server, Perhaps one allready running ;;;;; net stat shows nothing ! |
| 20:33.00 | JeffM | nn-main: that's easy |
| 20:33.07 | JeffM | something is on the same port |
| 20:33.23 | JeffM | one server per port |
| 20:33.30 | JeffM | ether that or your out of sockets |
| 20:33.56 | nn-main | how do i find out |
| 20:34.15 | F687s | are you starting bzfs on port 5154? |
| 20:34.22 | nn-main | nope |
| 20:34.27 | nn-main | 6204 |
| 20:34.47 | JeffM | is anyting else on that port? |
| 20:34.48 | F687s | heh, I can start bzfs on port 6204 just fine ;-) |
| 20:34.58 | JeffM | basicly that error is that we could not start the listen socket |
| 20:35.02 | JeffM | for some reason or another |
| 20:35.09 | JeffM | usualy it's port |
| 20:35.18 | JeffM | if it's not then it's some other issue with your OS |
| 20:35.25 | JeffM | like you've hit your max connections or something |
| 20:37.04 | nn-main | the weard thing is its user pisific error |
| 20:37.20 | Winny | pisific = specific? |
| 20:37.23 | nn-main | so if the problem on one user its not on a nother |
| 20:38.22 | nn-main | ah the new spell checking usflag version is now built into xchat; brb restarting x chat |
| 20:38.31 | Winny | thank god |
| 20:38.42 | F687s | heh |
| 20:38.44 | Winny | although it may not get the bad ones >_< |
| 20:39.09 | *** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 20:39.12 | Winny | seeing as firefox doesn't even get something if I do "ectually" insted of an a |
| 20:39.12 | nn-main | back |
| 20:39.32 | nn-main | F687s, what do you sugest i do |
| 20:40.05 | nn-main | is there a program that will clean up any extra stuff causing this to happen |
| 20:40.16 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-72-47-73-239.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 20:40.24 | F687s | um, restart all servers? pick a different port? bang head against keyboard until blood spurts out? |
| 20:40.30 | nn-main | it seems onily reboot actually fixes that error which is really scary |
| 20:41.06 | *** join/#bzflag ndim (i=hun@moooo.n-dimensional.de) |
| 20:41.24 | nn-main | well this hapens to often to do a reboot each time |
| 20:41.41 | nn-main | there has to be another way of fixing |
| 20:41.50 | F687s | use a different port? |
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| 20:42.49 | JeffM | do you have eough file descriptors for all your connections? |
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| 20:43.10 | nn-main | same thing happens on all ports on that user when the bug hapens also its onilly bzfs seems to have that bug. I can run net cat in listen mode on the same port from that user and have it work fine ? |
| 20:43.37 | JeffM | it is not BZ |
| 20:43.40 | JeffM | it is your OS |
| 20:44.12 | nn-main | What networking library does bzfs use |
| 20:44.17 | JeffM | it dosn't |
| 20:44.24 | JeffM | raw OS soclets |
| 20:44.28 | JeffM | sockets |
| 20:44.59 | JeffM | you are probalby runing very low on file descriptors for your sockets |
| 20:45.09 | JeffM | with the amount of serving you are doing |
| 20:45.18 | Winny | hehe |
| 20:45.19 | nn-main | Humm ..... kernal recompile looks in order |
| 20:45.31 | JeffM | HAH |
| 20:45.33 | JeffM | ok |
| 20:45.34 | JeffM | sure man |
| 20:45.43 | JeffM | if that's your expert opinon |
| 20:45.59 | nn-main | lol gentoo works off a source compiled kernel |
| 20:46.04 | JeffM | I know |
| 20:46.10 | JeffM | but you are the expert |
| 20:46.14 | nn-main | the server is a gentoo |
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| 20:46.21 | JeffM | sure, whatever man |
| 20:46.26 | nn-main | I personally prefer gentoo |
| 20:46.29 | nn-main | :) |
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| 20:46.43 | JeffM | has nothing to do with what I'm thinking of, but ok, whatever floats your boat |
| 20:47.10 | F687s | debian rulez! |
| 20:47.18 | JeffM | none of them "rule" |
| 20:47.24 | JeffM | that's why they are so spread out |
| 20:48.31 | nn-main | it all depends on personal prefrence |
| 20:48.56 | nn-main | I prefer gentoo because using use flags you tell what goes into a program |
| 20:49.00 | JeffM | nn-main: just to save you some time, I'd go ask in a more linux networking centric channel before you go and rebuild your kernel |
| 20:49.07 | JeffM | ask about the file descriptor table |
| 20:49.16 | JeffM | and how it can be set to allow more connections. |
| 20:49.19 | Chestal | nn-main: have you tried stracing bzfs? maybe search for error msg in strac elog then work backwards. Or check bzfs code to see what sys call might fail (bind?) |
| 20:49.33 | JeffM | Chestal: I've told him what the error message means |
| 20:49.35 | JeffM | and yeah it's bind |
| 20:49.43 | JeffM | we could not listen on the socket |
| 20:50.01 | JeffM | but as always he's got his own ideas how to fix things regardless of the truth |
| 20:50.02 | Chestal | well, bind can return different error codes, strace would show which one |
| 20:50.17 | JeffM | yeah he could |
| 20:50.36 | JeffM | but on a machine that is hosting a TON of bzfs instances, I could see him runing out of sockets |
| 20:50.51 | QuantumBeep | nn-main, please, we need to you host more servers, we are running out. |
| 20:51.38 | nn-main | QuantumBeep, lol more map change ones which Im needing to set up :) |
| 20:51.45 | QuantumBeep | lol :) |
| 20:51.49 | JeffM | I belive he was being sarcastic |
| 20:52.09 | JeffM | cus what, you want to get it to be 3 servers per player? |
| 20:52.40 | JeffM | how much upstream bandwith do you have nn-main ? |
| 20:53.17 | nn-main | Jeffm, I can just amagine a map change server stranded by this error and end up looping for ever !!!! i think it would be wise to fix this error / bug first |
| 20:53.57 | JeffM | yes, you probably should understand how linux networking works before you host things. that is wise |
| 20:54.07 | Winny | or just networking in general |
| 20:54.44 | spldart | Wait.. earlier.. You have multiple people ssh'ing into your rig to start instances of bzfs? Or am I missing it as well? |
| 20:54.56 | JeffM | yeah he has that too |
| 20:55.01 | spldart | OG |
| 20:55.07 | JeffM | he's full |
| 20:55.09 | spldart | What kinda of connection do you run? |
| 20:55.15 | Winny | cable |
| 20:55.17 | JeffM | home biz cable connect |
| 20:55.21 | JeffM | I think a meg up |
| 20:55.31 | spldart | Dude! |
| 20:55.35 | spldart | overloaded |
| 20:55.40 | JeffM | a little |
| 20:55.41 | QuantumBeep | So... 25-30 players on the entire box, tops |
| 20:55.47 | JeffM | but that's an old horse that has sailed |
| 20:55.48 | QuantumBeep | More like 10 |
| 20:56.08 | spldart | How many people do you have tryuing to start bzfs's on your rig through ssh and do they KNOW to use diff ports?!@?!!? |
| 20:56.18 | Winny | I usually can get about 15-20 on my cable (1mbit), and then all goes to hell |
| 20:56.33 | Winny | havent been using cable as a server for at least a year, though.. |
| 20:56.50 | JeffM | he may have more then one up, but I think I remember him saying one up |
| 20:56.52 | spldart | discontinued cable a year ago myself.. |
| 20:56.57 | JeffM | and something like 6+ down |
| 20:57.06 | spldart | using, with permission, business connection on weekends to host |
| 20:57.09 | QuantumBeep | You're running this off a cable modem? Kill me and bury me on a mountain. |
| 20:57.24 | spldart | But only 1 instance of bzfs, and ssh etc DSL |
| 20:59.30 | spldart | Tell me please, nnmain, that each has their own /home/dir jailed with their own owned instance of bzfs in it and perhaps a README their too to let them know to stay on a specific port you allocate... |
| 20:59.44 | nn-main | JeffM, its around 1.5 Mbits |
| 21:00.00 | JeffM | at what point will your list updates flood that out? |
| 21:00.04 | nn-main | and that is constant so i could up load at that for ever |
| 21:00.21 | spldart | cable doesn't work that way |
| 21:00.33 | spldart | @ least not here... |
| 21:00.36 | spldart | it surges |
| 21:00.51 | Winny | yeah |
| 21:00.57 | Winny | even business cable is oversold |
| 21:01.03 | spldart | N/M... I'm outty... this is.. Gah! |
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| 21:03.52 | nn-main | hi sigonasr2 |
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| 21:04.37 | spldart | ..... |
| 21:14.12 | nn-main | humm this looks like what im looking for /proc/sys/net/core/somaxconn |
| 21:19.37 | Chestal | nn-main: no, this value is of no relevance in your case. It is the maximum number of pending connectoins (i.e. sockets for which the app has not called accept yet) |
| 21:21.08 | nn-main | Chestal, do you know which one im looking for ? |
| 21:21.36 | nn-main | Because I don't really know |
| 21:21.56 | Chestal | nn-main: have you tried strace to see exactly what fails? |
| 21:22.01 | nn-main | I don't know much about proc |
| 21:22.14 | Chestal | otherwise you are just poking around in the dark |
| 21:23.31 | nn-main | Chestal, emerge-ing it now |
| 21:27.36 | nn-main | wow stace seems to be a huge program |
| 21:30.16 | Chestal | actually, it's rather small |
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