| 00:06.20 | whodaman- | I like the current ones :) |
| 00:06.28 | Winny | no. |
| 00:08.11 | spldart | "Is that your final answer" |
| 00:14.00 | Winny | ick.. terragen only lets you render up to 512x512 skyboxes >_< |
| 00:16.34 | *** join/#bzflag z[h]ero (n=4e2a2ff4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-05ded010bf3eba49) |
| 00:16.54 | *** join/#bzflag hwilde (n=hwilde@pool-68-162-145-195.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:17.07 | hwilde | there is a cheat on badgerking that can make himself die by anybody at anytime |
| 00:17.23 | Winny | coming |
| 00:17.25 | hwilde | gonna get me tk autokicked |
| 00:17.26 | hwilde | lol |
| 00:19.10 | z[h]ero | hi. the registered player laserball2 cheats now on different servers, he can't be killed! (He started cheating few weeks ago). |
| 00:19.21 | z[h]ero | possibility to masterban him? |
| 00:19.24 | hwilde | pretty cool in theory tho you could get someone banned by giving them tks |
| 00:19.38 | Winny | z[h]ero: you sure he was logged in? |
| 00:19.42 | Winny | he's too stupid to cheat |
| 00:19.59 | z[h]ero | yep, registered "laserball2" and playing on 2 different maps i saw him cheating! |
| 00:20.22 | z[h]ero | nope, he was very angry few weeks ago, and so he choosed the path of cheating |
| 00:20.32 | blast007 | z[h]ero: kthx |
| 00:20.36 | Winny | fun |
| 00:20.37 | z[h]ero | last map was tavern.klubi i saw him |
| 00:20.50 | z[h]ero | nthey did poll ban, but no sucess.. |
| 00:20.58 | z[h]ero | np |
| 00:21.15 | z[h]ero | brb, checking with anonymous callsgin if he is still there |
| 00:21.54 | Winny | ugh, does anyone know of any other terrain makers besides terraggen? |
| 00:21.58 | Winny | I really hate it. |
| 00:22.40 | blast007 | Winny: which verion did you use? |
| 00:22.50 | blast007 | I know they have a Terragen 2 tech demo |
| 00:22.51 | Winny | v0.9 |
| 00:22.56 | Winny | hmm |
| 00:23.05 | blast007 | but I didn't take the time to learn how to use it |
| 00:23.18 | Winny | yeah, v0.9 is horrible |
| 00:23.23 | Winny | it's a pain in the ass to use |
| 00:26.01 | z[h]ero | and now he was on alachua map. When i joined he exactly left. But i saw how the people talked about a cheater called laserball2 there... (so at least 3 maps he cheated now in the last 10-20 min) |
| 00:26.24 | blast007 | ok |
| 00:28.16 | Winny | his BZID is 20366 |
| 00:28.43 | Winny | how do I run a ID ban again? /idban #20366 0 go away |
| 00:28.52 | F687s | I just talked to laserball2 today. Has a pretty interesting cheat client. |
| 00:28.59 | z[h]ero | am already curious what map he goes now to cheat, bzflag-stats will tell it soon... |
| 00:29.01 | Winny | or is it + |
| 00:29.02 | blast007 | an admin on dub:5150 is needed |
| 00:29.13 | F687s | 16 cheats + god mode... |
| 00:29.16 | z[h]ero | laserball2 on dub? |
| 00:29.21 | blast007 | z[h]ero: no |
| 00:29.27 | Winny | F687s: fun stuff |
| 00:29.55 | F687s | not sure why, though... |
| 00:30.24 | F687s | if I didn't care about my reputation, I would like to try to make one (but then again, I wouldn't know what to do with it) |
| 00:31.12 | blast007 | JeffM: you around? |
| 00:32.22 | Winny | he hasn't been here for a while I think.. I pinged him an hour or so ago |
| 00:33.09 | blast007 | k |
| 00:34.24 | hwilde | easy to make one, hard to get away with actually using it |
| 00:34.59 | z[h]ero | oh, lb2 isnt on the bzflag-stats anymore (wondering if he goes on to cheat with an unregistered callsign) |
| 00:46.53 | Winny | I have a weird idea. |
| 00:50.26 | pacman87 | Winny: only one? |
| 00:50.32 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:51.12 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16379 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ (WorldInfo.h bzfsAPI.cxx): Finisihed->Finished globally. |
| 00:55.51 | F687s | Winny: what's your idea? |
| 00:56.35 | Winny | F687s: nvm, it sucked |
| 00:57.04 | F687s | ah |
| 00:57.30 | Winny | lol |
| 00:58.47 | Winny | blast007: ping |
| 00:58.48 | pacman87 | share it anyway, perhaps i could be improved upon |
| 00:58.52 | pacman87 | *it |
| 00:59.30 | pacman87 | if not, we could all just laugh ;-) |
| 00:59.48 | Winny | no, it would require shaders |
| 00:59.53 | Winny | I was just braindead for a sex |
| 00:59.56 | Winny | sec** |
| 00:59.57 | Winny | .. |
| 01:01.17 | Winny | I know, I make horrible typos |
| 01:01.20 | pacman87 | freudian slip? |
| 01:02.08 | Winny | the C and X are right next to each other. |
| 01:02.19 | F687s | yes, I can see that |
| 01:07.43 | spldart | Freud would be proud |
| 01:07.54 | spldart | It was a Sexcellent typo. |
| 01:08.39 | AHA | lol |
| 01:08.49 | AHA | Winny: i do that alot too |
| 01:09.07 | Winny | yeah, I know |
| 01:09.13 | Winny | you're always braindead |
| 01:09.16 | AHA | xD |
| 01:12.11 | DTRemenak | JeffM: ping |
| 01:21.02 | JeffM | ? |
| 01:21.59 | Winny | blast007: he re-appeared :) |
| 01:22.00 | blast007 | Winny: pong |
| 01:22.21 | Winny | nvm, I figured it out |
| 01:22.26 | blast007 | k |
| 01:22.40 | JeffM | who needed what? |
| 01:22.47 | JeffM | DTRemenak? |
| 01:22.51 | JeffM | png png png |
| 01:23.00 | spldart | LOL |
| 01:23.33 | Winny | JeffM: how would you feel about 1024x1024 mountains? overkill? |
| 01:23.57 | JeffM | yes |
| 01:24.02 | Winny | hmm, ok |
| 01:24.37 | JeffM | that is at least untill we are able to dynamicly scale them for performance |
| 01:38.25 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 01:39.21 | *** join/#bzflag fatass (n=Think_Di@adsl-75-36-133-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 01:39.31 | DTRemenak | JeffM: since you're the api man, I thought I'd run this by you: I'd like to install hooks for plugins to manipulate the map just before it's read |
| 01:42.50 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (i=bier@p54A57C6D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:43.30 | DTRemenak | that'd allow purple panzer's object-based map randomization, and make bzwgen really trivial to pluginize. it'd also have potential for i.e. embedded, one-time eval python in map files for more complex stuff, that would have access to server vars and so on also. |
| 01:43.53 | DTRemenak | and it would do that while preserving network-transparency, unlike passing the map name to the plugin |
| 01:48.34 | Winny | wooho, a skybox |
| 01:55.09 | JeffM | or have DTRemenak there is an event now for before read |
| 01:55.24 | JeffM | you want them to be able to parse and write the text? |
| 01:55.27 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 01:55.41 | JeffM | how did you want to do it? |
| 01:55.49 | JeffM | install a callback that gives you a list of keys and text? |
| 01:55.53 | JeffM | for each object |
| 01:55.55 | JeffM | you edit |
| 01:55.59 | JeffM | then it uses those in the parser? |
| 01:56.09 | JeffM | I'd like them to not have to reparse |
| 01:56.13 | JeffM | as much as possible |
| 01:56.34 | JeffM | so something inbetween parsing and the application of the data to the object woudl be optimal |
| 01:56.49 | DTRemenak | hmm. I was thinking something that would force them to parse. 'cause they may want to generate some parts on the fly. |
| 01:57.09 | DTRemenak | and they need access to data that our parser throws out |
| 01:57.16 | JeffM | ok |
| 01:57.25 | DTRemenak | particularly for e.g. bzwgen |
| 01:57.29 | JeffM | well at least break it up into a list for htem |
| 01:57.30 | JeffM | them ;) |
| 01:57.37 | JeffM | now the API can create new objects |
| 01:57.40 | JeffM | that's easy |
| 01:57.49 | JeffM | but it sounds like you want to mod objects |
| 01:57.55 | JeffM | that already exist |
| 01:58.01 | DTRemenak | yeah, but for something like a little randomization, I don't want them to need to know all the existing objects |
| 01:58.18 | DTRemenak | I'm thinking mostly preprocessorish |
| 01:58.35 | JeffM | sounds cool |
| 01:58.37 | DTRemenak | doesn't have to know anything about the map format, just needs to be able to replace tokens in it |
| 01:58.47 | JeffM | my only opinion would be for us to make it as generic as possible |
| 01:58.48 | JeffM | that's all |
| 01:58.59 | DTRemenak | yeah, that's why I was thinking just give them the text |
| 01:59.03 | JeffM | if it can't be made totaly generic, then we get as far as we can |
| 01:59.04 | JeffM | :) |
| 01:59.18 | DTRemenak | 'cause then you could totally go overboard and use a python script as your world |
| 01:59.21 | DTRemenak | if you wanted to |
| 01:59.54 | JeffM | if we finished the API for adding objects, you could do the same |
| 01:59.58 | L4m3r | or make up your own format in any way you like |
| 02:00.04 | JeffM | you can define a 1.0 world in C now |
| 02:00.56 | DTRemenak | yeah, but you'd need a really complex plugin to be able to handle both file and http maps, for instance |
| 02:01.08 | DTRemenak | this is more of "I don't care where it comes from" |
| 02:01.18 | DTRemenak | and you could stack them :) |
| 02:01.40 | L4m3r | do random maps actually generate in bzw and then parse the map? |
| 02:01.54 | DTRemenak | no, they just generate the objects |
| 02:02.01 | L4m3r | that's what I thought :P |
| 02:02.02 | DTRemenak | and as JeffM said, we can do that via the api now |
| 02:02.11 | DTRemenak | but bzwgen does generate the entire bzw |
| 02:02.51 | L4m3r | it'd be nice to have plugins that generate their own primitives |
| 02:02.55 | DTRemenak | bzwgen could be done as a custom object that had the ruleset inside it |
| 02:03.06 | DTRemenak | but that could get ugly |
| 02:03.19 | L4m3r | yeah, I was thinking of simpler objects |
| 02:03.42 | DTRemenak | yeah, they can generate stuff now, but it doesn't get re-parsed |
| 02:03.57 | DTRemenak | so they need to know about boxes to generate boxes |
| 02:03.58 | JeffM | DTRemenak: yes for mods, the text is an acceptable format |
| 02:04.42 | DTRemenak | and if it was tied into bzdb, you could do crazy stuff like make the map bigger for higher starting tank speeds :) |
| 02:05.02 | JeffM | if we had more generic objet support on the server that would store extra data, and we also used that for stuff like Server side players, I'd say use it |
| 02:05.20 | JeffM | cus what your system dosn't allow for is moding a map generated by an old plug-in |
| 02:05.24 | JeffM | not that we have any |
| 02:05.26 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 02:05.31 | JeffM | probalby should pull the old API |
| 02:05.47 | DTRemenak | bzw is not too difficult to write out |
| 02:06.04 | DTRemenak | though I have no objection to having both |
| 02:07.10 | DTRemenak | there's some stuff that might even be easier to use the object api for |
| 02:07.20 | DTRemenak | like if you had plugins that generated sane defaults for zones |
| 02:07.49 | JeffM | or just wanted to shift postions around |
| 02:07.59 | JeffM | calling a common derived API call for position could be easy |
| 02:08.11 | DTRemenak | yeah. the whole world is basically defined at that point, where what I want to do is well before that. |
| 02:08.29 | JeffM | indeed |
| 02:08.36 | JeffM | probalby need a couple of event calls then |
| 02:08.51 | JeffM | we have the "hey I need a world, you want to define it or tell me what map" |
| 02:09.03 | JeffM | then we shoudl have "hey I have this workd, want to muck with it before I parse it" |
| 02:09.19 | JeffM | then "hey I loaded this world, want to muck with it as objects before I use it" |
| 02:09.28 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 02:09.34 | DTRemenak | lots of mucking about going on :) |
| 02:09.53 | JeffM | depending on what you want to do, each of those may be where you want |
| 02:10.04 | DTRemenak | or more than one |
| 02:10.07 | JeffM | the last one is the only one called for random worlds ;) |
| 02:10.13 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 02:10.29 | DTRemenak | so that is kinda important :) |
| 02:11.28 | DTRemenak | awesome |
| 02:12.24 | JeffM | If I could find my ruler and square |
| 02:13.30 | DTRemenak | aw, just eyeball it ;) |
| 02:15.41 | JeffM | used a popsicle stick |
| 02:15.45 | JeffM | the rudder is now much larger |
| 02:17.16 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 02:26.11 | *** part/#bzflag z[h]ero (n=4e2a2ff4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-05ded010bf3eba49) |
| 02:41.17 | Winny | JeffM et al, what do you think of having a whole skybox instead of just mountains? |
| 02:42.53 | JeffM | skybox dosn't work with dynamic sky |
| 02:42.58 | L4m3r | I think I'd prefer the mountains, since they can be disabled |
| 02:43.00 | JeffM | and is allready a map option |
| 02:43.30 | L4m3r | the circular mountains also hide the corners of the ground plane, and a skybox would not |
| 02:43.54 | Winny | ah, never thought of that |
| 02:48.31 | Winny | oh.. well there's yur problem |
| 02:50.12 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 02:50.59 | spldart | OMG lol @ mythbusters reference |
| 02:51.33 | Winny | hehe |
| 02:57.35 | spldart | My deity! How old is 2.0.0 now? |
| 02:57.48 | L4m3r | getting close to three years? |
| 02:57.51 | L4m3r | I think |
| 02:58.26 | L4m3r | I started playing right after 2.0.0, and that was early 2005 iirc... senior year in high school... |
| 02:58.27 | spldart | I started playing bzflag march 17th.. but can't remember.. was it 3 or 4 years ago |
| 02:58.36 | spldart | lemme check something |
| 03:00.03 | spldart | oop.. wrong .. feb 21st |
| 03:00.19 | spldart | joined the bb so feb 17th |
| 03:00.54 | spldart | gah... correction.. joined bb on feb 21st.. so first started playing around feb 17th 2k5 |
| 03:02.37 | spldart | My brother 'booch' < tank name, turned me onto the game. |
| 03:03.32 | spldart | Then shortly after JeffM turned me onto using linux for a serve platform for bzfs.. Windoze didn't hold up to well in the long term |
| 03:04.10 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 03:04.54 | Winny | how hard would it be to change the default sky color to a different, more realistic shade of blue? |
| 03:05.10 | spldart | have you played with _set yet? |
| 03:05.16 | spldart | Just curious |
| 03:05.21 | L4m3r | a more realistic sky color would be a gradient :P |
| 03:05.22 | Winny | no, as in, the default one (with no vars) |
| 03:05.29 | spldart | oh |
| 03:05.40 | spldart | dee deedee |
| 03:08.51 | Winny | CF? |
| 03:10.16 | Macrosoft | Winny: flash |
| 03:10.57 | Winny | oh |
| 03:11.07 | Winny | I was thinking of some sort of PCI card |
| 03:11.08 | Winny | :p |
| 03:11.13 | Macrosoft | :p |
| 03:20.39 | F687s | wow, only took 2 1/2 years for an answer (http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4137) |
| 03:24.24 | nick125 | haha |
| 03:24.30 | Winny | lol |
| 03:24.40 | nick125 | I don't even think that answer is entirely correct..I mean, UDP is a stateless protocol. |
| 03:25.14 | nick125 | (If I remember correctly) |
| 03:25.58 | JeffM | it's a router bug |
| 03:26.43 | nick125 | Yeah. |
| 03:28.28 | Winny | ugh.. the terragen mountains are fuly in-game |
| 03:36.08 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-75-81-248-105.we.res.rr.com) |
| 03:36.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 03:44.02 | *** join/#bzflag CRWheelchair (n=jeff@or-71-0-54-30.dyn.embarqhsd.net) |
| 03:47.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 03:47.47 | *** part/#bzflag CRWheelchair (n=jeff@or-71-0-54-30.dyn.embarqhsd.net) |
| 03:47.47 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b CRWheelchair!*@*] by JeffM2501 |
| 03:52.30 | AAA_awright | Can one of the developers confirm this fix would work? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=119276#119276 |
| 03:52.41 | AAA_awright | UDP keepalive |
| 03:54.15 | spldart | just got kicked for no udp on missle war today about 3 hours ago for no reason.. rejoined and no problem at all.. funny coin-keedink |
| 03:54.41 | JeffM2501 | naw it dosn't fix the issue |
| 03:54.54 | JeffM2501 | it's a router bug |
| 03:56.36 | AAA_awright | And what is the suggested fix? Notify makers of faulty implementation, wait for a firmware upgrade? |
| 03:58.16 | JeffM2501 | ya |
| 03:58.57 | blast007 | or buy a router that doesn't suck |
| 03:59.13 | spldart | deja vue |
| 04:09.17 | spldart | woah |
| 04:09.38 | spldart | open ssh link causes major lag/lost on bz |
| 04:25.25 | *** join/#bzflag tycho_ (n=rbromley@c-67-169-13-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.19 | tycho_ | Hey |
| 04:26.36 | tycho_ | This place is a piece of crap |
| 04:26.42 | blast007 | uh |
| 04:27.02 | bier | crap? why? |
| 04:27.12 | tycho_ | Because BZFlag is a really stupid game |
| 04:27.21 | blast007 | ok |
| 04:27.28 | blast007 | then don't play |
| 04:27.30 | Macrosoft | tycho_: if you dont like it, dont play it |
| 04:27.39 | tycho_ | Naw, I prefer to mess with it |
| 04:27.41 | bier | linux users here? |
| 04:27.45 | tycho_ | Mess it up real bad |
| 04:28.03 | tycho_ | I do all I can to impede it |
| 04:28.07 | bier | hey guys, just ignore him ;) |
| 04:28.19 | bier | he just wants some attention... he's a poor guy |
| 04:28.22 | tycho_ | You may know me as Coogle, or Liberal Simpleton |
| 04:28.41 | tycho_ | I write and distribute cheat clients with 11,000 lines' worth of hacks |
| 04:29.04 | tycho_ | I'll stop at nothing to ruin this game |
| 04:29.07 | bier | whooo, great work to modify a open source game... |
| 04:29.23 | bier | that's kind of "lame" |
| 04:29.30 | tycho_ | I derive great pleasure from my little pastime |
| 04:29.36 | Macrosoft | bier: what happened to the "ignore him" idea? |
| 04:29.44 | bier | script kiddies may use your "modified shit" |
| 04:29.55 | bier | Macrosoft: it stell is in queue ;) |
| 04:29.58 | tycho_ | and I take a perverse delight in exacting my trouble-making on all the major servers |
| 04:30.44 | tycho_ | My name is Coogle Whopperfield Bayglefifle the Magnificent, and I am a considerably alarming menace to the BZFlag community |
| 04:31.08 | blast007 | heh |
| 04:31.11 | Macrosoft | tycho_: i think you are just trying to get coogle banned |
| 04:31.58 | bier | tycho_: write a game for yourself, if you're so cool... don't destroy others work! |
| 04:32.06 | tycho_ | Let admins and developers read what I have here written |
| 04:32.17 | blast007 | tycho_: I already read it |
| 04:32.19 | tycho_ | Let them be filled with alarm, disgust, and sadness |
| 04:32.31 | bier | tycho_: you really think so? |
| 04:33.11 | bier | tycho_: what if the devs will release the game as closed source in the future? will you still make yourself an idiot on irc? |
| 04:33.23 | tycho_ | They'll not release it as closed source |
| 04:33.39 | blast007 | bier: that would not solve anything |
| 04:33.41 | tycho_ | I have great confidence in their idiocy |
| 04:33.45 | blast007 | nor would it happen |
| 04:33.46 | bier | who knows... i don't know, but you don't know too ;) |
| 04:34.48 | spldart | Hey dycho... I just like to mess with you.... |
| 04:34.51 | tycho_ | I'm such a menace that I am banned on sight |
| 04:35.07 | blast007 | tycho_: you know, we really don't care ;) |
| 04:35.10 | tycho_ | by admin scum |
| 04:35.11 | bier | i am happy about the amount of players that just "play" the game, without cheating |
| 04:35.23 | tycho_ | I don't care whether you care or not, scumbag |
| 04:35.34 | bier | cheating bzflag isn't that hard |
| 04:35.38 | tycho_ | If my words were causing a loved one of yours to die, I'd still not care |
| 04:35.41 | spldart | OMG.. you might have hurt his feelings... NOT |
| 04:36.07 | spldart | Dycho's kung fu is not strong. |
| 04:36.20 | tycho_ | What the fuck? |
| 04:36.21 | spldart | LOL @ winny |
| 04:36.36 | Winny | language tycho_ |
| 04:36.36 | tycho_ | Isn't Winny one of the head honchos of this piece of crap? |
| 04:36.49 | Winny | hahaha, I wish |
| 04:37.16 | spldart | So what's it like on the Isle of Lesbos mr_mrs dycho |
| 04:37.32 | spldart | IB I get kicked too |
| 04:38.10 | *** part/#bzflag spldart (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 04:38.20 | tycho_ | This place is really, really stupid and I refuse to remain |
| 04:38.24 | *** part/#bzflag tycho_ (n=rbromley@c-67-169-13-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:38.31 | blast007 | don't let the door hit you on the way out |
| 04:38.32 | Winny | bye muffin! |
| 04:38.46 | Winny | aww, too bad he's hostbanned :p |
| 04:38.51 | blast007 | guess he wasn't having fun anymore |
| 04:38.59 | Winny | yeah, we got boring |
| 04:39.56 | AAA_awright | Keep on the lookout for GPL violations by cheaters. If anyone violates it even once, you can revoke their right to redistribute it ever again. |
| 04:40.08 | blast007 | AAA_awright: pfft |
| 04:40.14 | Winny | yeah, you think they give a rats ass? |
| 04:40.22 | AAA_awright | Sue for damages. |
| 04:40.32 | Winny | haa.. no court would hear it |
| 04:40.56 | AAA_awright | The list server? |
| 04:41.18 | AAA_awright | Courts are required to hear it as long as you try and settle first. |
| 04:41.45 | Winny | argh terracrap |
| 04:41.47 | bier | AAA_awright: that doesn't even matter, does it? if the tell you "i released the stuff here, there and there... who cares if it's not there? |
| 04:41.54 | bier | they |
| 04:42.35 | AAA_awright | the LGPL (what BZFlag uses) and GPL have more requirements then that. |
| 04:42.47 | bier | in fact you "only" have to release it, that's what the GPL says |
| 04:43.02 | AAA_awright | release what? |
| 04:43.13 | bier | your changes to the original software |
| 04:44.07 | AAA_awright | Yes. If they break that, then you can revoke their right to redistribute it. |
| 04:44.27 | bier | well, you know what i mean... maybe they release it, leave it public available for a week or so... then the server they released it on goes boo boo, and that's it. no chance to get them |
| 04:45.04 | bier | at least they fulfil the GPL by releasing the stuff they modified |
| 04:45.25 | Macrosoft | wait, so if i change the source to bzfs i have to release it? |
| 04:45.44 | bier | yes Macrosoft, if it's released under the GPL |
| 04:45.48 | AAA_awright | If you distribute it |
| 04:45.50 | blast007 | Macrosoft: if you release a binary |
| 04:46.01 | bier | yeah, of course |
| 04:46.07 | Macrosoft | blast007: oh |
| 04:46.50 | bier | that's one of the main things behind the GPL, i think ;) |
| 04:47.28 | Winny | aww crap |
| 04:47.51 | blast007 | yeah, it is ;) |
| 04:48.04 | blast007 | for one, it's a tech demo, iirc |
| 04:48.13 | blast007 | so likely not the final interface |
| 04:48.16 | Winny | yeah |
| 04:48.51 | bier | man, i need some sleep... but i just can't sleep here -,- |
| 04:48.55 | Winny | jesus, this is more confusing then blender |
| 04:49.38 | blast007 | Winny: well, did you look at some of the screenshots for Terragen 2? |
| 04:50.21 | blast007 | ooo, found another terrain generator |
| 04:50.26 | Macrosoft | heh "The chance that a rogue mini-world — asteroid 2007 WD5 — will smack into Mars has increased from 1.3 percent to 3.9 percent. In the event of an impact, the head-on collision would take place on January 30th at 2:55 a.m. PST, give or take a few minutes." |
| 04:50.34 | blast007 | Winny: want the link? |
| 04:50.39 | Winny | sure |
| 04:50.51 | blast007 | http://simcity.ea.com/coolstuff/terrain/terrain_01.php ;) |
| 04:51.11 | Winny | lol |
| 04:51.41 | bier | by the way, what happened to bzworkbench? haven't heard someting for a long time now... |
| 04:52.18 | blast007 | bier: I haven't seen anything done to it recently |
| 04:52.48 | bier | hm... it looked really cool when i tried it a few month ago |
| 04:52.59 | bier | months |
| 04:53.29 | bier | would be great to see some progress there |
| 04:54.43 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (i=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 04:57.06 | blast007 | bier: sure would. *grins* patches welcome. ;) |
| 04:58.08 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 05:01.00 | bier | well, to tell the truth: i guess i am not good enough to participate something to bzworkbench ;) |
| 05:12.00 | DTRemenak | bzwb is pretty straightforward |
| 05:12.12 | DTRemenak | you could learn as you go :) |
| 05:19.29 | Macrosoft | brb |
| 05:21.26 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 05:21.40 | bier | DTRemenak: well... for some ruby guy (like me) it's not _that_ easy... |
| 05:22.12 | DTRemenak | better than starting from scratch! :) |
| 05:22.21 | DTRemenak | and at least bzwb is nicely OO |
| 05:23.26 | bier | heh.. since i am writing stuff in ruby, i don't even want to switch to another language ;) |
| 05:23.27 | bryjen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_%28programming_language%29 |
| 05:23.33 | bryjen | heh |
| 05:23.46 | Macrosoft | heh |
| 05:24.10 | *** join/#bzflag PieceOfCrap (n=richard@c-67-169-13-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:24.28 | Macrosoft | tycho is back ^^ |
| 05:24.37 | bier | well, it's still better than 'brainfuck'... thet's really crazy ;) |
| 05:24.37 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:24.48 | JeffM2501 | bier: languge please |
| 05:25.00 | Macrosoft | JeffM2501: he was here as "tycho_" earlier |
| 05:25.07 | bier | JeffM2501: it's a name for a programming language (see wikipedia), so... |
| 05:25.08 | *** kick/#bzflag [PieceOfCrap!n=Jeff@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |
| 05:25.08 | *** join/#bzflag PieceOfCrap (n=richard@c-67-169-13-197.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:25.16 | JeffM2501 | bier: don't care |
| 05:25.34 | bier | well.. ok ;) |
| 05:25.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*@*.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] by JeffM2501 |
| 05:25.38 | *** kick/#bzflag [PieceOfCrap!n=Jeff@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501] by JeffM2501 (JeffM2501) |
| 05:25.47 | Winny | :D |
| 05:25.50 | spldart | Meh.. time to turn wav down |
| 05:26.39 | DTRemenak | wow. that's a really broad ban...would catch me if I wasn't on via rdp :) |
| 05:27.07 | Winny | exactly ;P |
| 05:28.50 | Macrosoft | super-wide |
| 05:29.14 | JeffM2501 | well you know I secretly hate you right? |
| 05:29.16 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 05:29.17 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 05:29.21 | L4m3r | lol |
| 05:29.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b *!*@*.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] by JeffM2501 |
| 05:30.22 | *** topic/#bzflag by AAA_awright -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || logs at http://ibot.rikers.org/#bzflag || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10 is out || http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/45019/37A4F10F2697 |
| 05:30.27 | AAA_awright | Shoot |
| 05:30.34 | bryjen | bang! |
| 05:30.35 | AAA_awright | Sorry :/ |
| 05:30.38 | bier | why do you put so much effort in the langguage the poeple are using? what time is it in the US? |
| 05:30.57 | Macrosoft | bier: 11:30 here |
| 05:31.10 | Macrosoft | central time zone |
| 05:31.11 | JeffM2501 | bier: cus we do |
| 05:31.16 | bier | wow, okay... thet explains it ;) |
| 05:31.20 | JeffM2501 | bzflag runs in all time zones |
| 05:31.23 | JeffM2501 | allover the world |
| 05:31.28 | JeffM2501 | and it's our rules |
| 05:31.36 | Winny | even in canada, in our igloos! |
| 05:33.12 | bier | JeffM2501: yay, but... you know, my opinion is that the kids hear that language anyway, you only have to listen to the radio... so... but well, i am not am american guy, so i don't know ho it's over there |
| 05:34.38 | bier | but it's kind of funny that most of the american radio stations censore things like the "bad f-word", but none do so in the rest of the world |
| 05:34.46 | JeffM2501 | bier: then you can start your own open source game, get an IRC channel and run it however you want. |
| 05:35.06 | bier | JeffM2501: nono, please don't misunderstand it ;) |
| 05:35.16 | JeffM2501 | please don't preach it |
| 05:35.18 | JeffM2501 | it is what it is |
| 05:35.30 | DTRemenak | it is ironic and doesn't make much sense, but that's how the rules are set up...just have to work within them |
| 05:35.40 | bier | yeah, i accept it, as you see... |
| 05:35.51 | JeffM2501 | we are well aware of the things we COULD do, but we do what we do because that is what we want to do. |
| 05:36.10 | L4m3r | bier: Americans are uptight... that's about all there is to it :P |
| 05:36.10 | JeffM2501 | it's much simpler to just say "nope" rather then set up a complex set of rules |
| 05:36.11 | blast007 | We do what we must, because, we can. |
| 05:36.22 | bier | its much more some kind of "uh? why?"... than a "haha"... if you know what i mean |
| 05:36.25 | bryjen | do be do be do |
| 05:37.22 | Winny | all of them! |
| 05:38.38 | L4m3r | bryjen: Murphy's law indicates that the chance of it being any given fan is directly proportional to how hard said fan is to get to and replace. |
| 05:39.03 | DTRemenak | ...except that if you follow that line of logic while testing, it will be the easiest one because it's the last one you test :) |
| 05:39.19 | bryjen | damn the recursion! |
| 05:39.35 | DTRemenak | inconceivable! |
| 05:39.37 | Macrosoft | L4m3r: would really suck for me, where would i get a 200mm fan? |
| 05:39.48 | bier | europe |
| 05:39.49 | bier | xD |
| 05:40.09 | L4m3r | Macrosoft: I'd try Earl's first |
| 05:40.19 | L4m3r | but that's more about luck |
| 05:43.28 | bier | <L4m3r> bier: Americans are uptight... that's about all there is to it :P <-- yeah, and they're egoistic! they always pray like "... god bless america!" - so they don't care about the rest *duck and run* |
| 05:44.10 | bier | so you pray like that too? ;) |
| 05:44.45 | L4m3r | no, we're not all crazed, foaming-at-the-mouth nationalists here |
| 05:44.52 | bier | heh |
| 05:45.05 | bier | at least ONE point on the positive side ;) |
| 05:45.22 | bier | never mind, i am just kidding... |
| 05:52.04 | bier | .oO(now they all hate me) |
| 05:53.15 | Winny | we do! |
| 05:53.50 | bier | yay :D they are so egoistic that they don't even can deal with the truth* |
| 05:54.08 | bier | .oO(and now i better leave ^^) |
| 05:54.14 | Winny | heh... |
| 05:54.22 | a_meteorite | .oO(and now I'm getting annoyed by .oO) |
| 05:54.30 | bier | ;D |
| 05:54.42 | a_meteorite | >_~ |
| 05:55.01 | Winny | ~_< |
| 05:55.14 | a_meteorite | Need a factoid for that. :) |
| 05:55.17 | bier | :p (_._) |
| 05:55.18 | bier | ;) |
| 05:55.30 | bier | that can even be understood by americans ;) |
| 05:55.38 | a_meteorite | ~_< is <reply> Go away AOL kiddie before my emoticons burn through your eyes! |
| 05:55.39 | ibot | okay, a_meteorite |
| 05:55.45 | JeffM2501 | please get off the nationalism thing dude |
| 05:55.48 | JeffM2501 | this isn't the place |
| 05:55.58 | bier | oh, it's okay |
| 05:55.59 | JeffM2501 | it's a channel about a game |
| 05:56.10 | bier | yes, you're right |
| 05:56.40 | bier | wasn't meant this way ;) |
| 05:56.52 | JeffM2501 | then just stop |
| 06:04.13 | AAA_awright | ~_< |
| 06:04.14 | ibot | Go away AOL kiddie before my emoticons burn through your eyes! |
| 06:04.40 | Constitution | so... blast007 and I were noting today that there is some vagueness in the direction our web services and auth system are heading (specifically with regards to the list server and group manager) |
| 06:05.06 | Constitution | would it be possible for a few of the main devs to meet with us sometime and figure out where we're headed? |
| 06:05.15 | JeffM2501 | as oposed to the vaugeness for the rest of the projct? |
| 06:05.36 | Constitution | no... as opposed to having a clearly-defined plan |
| 06:05.42 | Constitution | in this specific area |
| 06:05.48 | JeffM2501 | cus we have one of those for anythign else? ;) |
| 06:05.59 | Constitution | no ;) |
| 06:06.19 | Constitution | but it would be nice not to have to completely re-write our stuff if/when our auth system changes, etc. |
| 06:06.58 | JeffM2501 | but we don't know what it will be untill someone actualy does the work to see what a new auth system can do |
| 06:07.19 | JeffM2501 | I would think it would not be hard to write modular code |
| 06:07.20 | Constitution | so we need live demos of all the options? |
| 06:07.26 | AAA_awright | Like me? |
| 06:07.32 | JeffM2501 | for an auth system, nothing has been done |
| 06:07.38 | JeffM2501 | otehr then some research |
| 06:07.47 | JeffM2501 | what clarifications are you looking for |
| 06:07.58 | JeffM2501 | somone to say "YES LAP IS THE WAY"? |
| 06:08.01 | AAA_awright | And even then research is sparse |
| 06:10.21 | Constitution | JeffM2501: just a general clarification of what is needed from these services, how they will work together, etc. |
| 06:10.32 | JeffM2501 | they should work together |
| 06:10.57 | JeffM2501 | the group management system is decently well defined IIRC |
| 06:11.02 | JeffM2501 | the auth system has to do all we do now |
| 06:11.25 | JeffM2501 | and work as auth for the other services ( lis, web, stats, forum, etc.. ) |
| 06:13.27 | Constitution | well there have been a lot of ideas floating around (some undocumented) about unifying our services in some way, using a CMS, and other stuff... and then there's the upgrade to phpBB3 and a possible change to the auth system too |
| 06:13.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 06:13.52 | Constitution | blast007 could probably shed more light on exactly what our concerns are |
| 06:13.52 | JeffM2501 | but its all talk till somone does it |
| 06:14.45 | Constitution | so... is it too much to ask to get together and discuss what we are doing, aren't doing, and how we're going to do it? |
| 06:14.57 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 06:15.00 | JeffM2501 | but the answers are easy |
| 06:15.10 | JeffM2501 | "we" arn't doing anything |
| 06:15.22 | Constitution | oh great, this again ;) |
| 06:15.34 | JeffM2501 | dude it's what we do |
| 06:15.45 | JeffM2501 | if you want to lead the project great |
| 06:16.01 | JeffM2501 | but don't get dilusions that we have some grand plan we have to stick to |
| 06:16.07 | JeffM2501 | we can give you what we think it should do |
| 06:16.17 | JeffM2501 | and you get get it implemented |
| 06:16.26 | JeffM2501 | but there is no schedule or plan |
| 06:16.46 | JeffM2501 | the phpbb3 upgrade will happen when somone has the time to do it |
| 06:16.48 | JeffM2501 | simple as that |
| 06:17.22 | JeffM2501 | the auth system will change when somone has time to mod all the services to use it |
| 06:17.37 | JeffM2501 | now if you make new code modular it makes that job easier |
| 06:17.46 | JeffM2501 | what tasks are you looking at taking on right now? |
| 06:18.01 | Constitution | the group manager |
| 06:18.09 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 06:18.29 | JeffM2501 | and are there questions you have about it's requested feature set that arn't in the wiki page on it? |
| 06:19.45 | JeffM2501 | or are you looking for help on it? |
| 06:20.30 | Constitution | my questions are more about how it will fit into the grand scheme of things as far as the backend, whether we're integrating it with a CMS or whatever, what the eventual backend will be, etc. |
| 06:20.42 | Constitution | although apparently there is no "grand scheme" |
| 06:20.46 | JeffM2501 | none of that is known |
| 06:20.54 | JeffM2501 | right now, no there is no CMS |
| 06:21.10 | JeffM2501 | if there is one some day, part of that project will be to integrate the group system |
| 06:21.37 | Constitution | okay |
| 06:21.42 | JeffM2501 | I mean how does that fact change what you'd right? |
| 06:21.51 | JeffM2501 | there is no way you could add support for something that dosn't exist |
| 06:22.31 | JeffM2501 | and realy all "integration" could mean would be providing a link to the group manger from the users page ;) |
| 06:22.42 | Constitution | well, there's how I break up the code into files, whether I use templating of some sort, how auth info is stored, etc. |
| 06:23.00 | Constitution | it's not a huge thing, I guess |
| 06:23.08 | JeffM2501 | the auth system should be modular |
| 06:23.26 | JeffM2501 | I'd recomend you make a php page that does auth and just have it use the phpbb2 stuff for now |
| 06:23.37 | JeffM2501 | then we can have all the services swap over to using that file |
| 06:23.37 | Constitution | maybe I'm focusing too much on the small details |
| 06:23.42 | JeffM2501 | you are ;) |
| 06:23.46 | Constitution | okay :) |
| 06:24.09 | JeffM2501 | some sort of auth change is the only thing we know of |
| 06:24.14 | JeffM2501 | that and the phpbb3 change |
| 06:24.36 | JeffM2501 | now since the point of the group system is to remove the groups from phpbb that integration dosn't realy matter to you |
| 06:24.56 | JeffM2501 | since the point is to deintegrate |
| 06:25.42 | Constitution | to deintegrate the reg/auth/groups form phpBB, not to deintegrate all the services in general? |
| 06:26.05 | JeffM2501 | the point of the group thing is to remove groups from phpbb |
| 06:26.13 | JeffM2501 | the point of a new auth system is to remove auth from phpbb |
| 06:26.24 | Constitution | right, okay |
| 06:26.25 | JeffM2501 | it's all hinged on phpbb right now and that sucks |
| 06:26.34 | JeffM2501 | now Once we get those done |
| 06:26.38 | L4m3r | we don't want to de-integrate it so much as we'd like to make things as modular as possible |
| 06:26.39 | JeffM2501 | that opens up a lot of doors |
| 06:26.42 | JeffM2501 | like the CMS thing |
| 06:26.55 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 06:27.10 | JeffM2501 | we want to make it all work together, but not be dependent on phpbb |
| 06:27.28 | L4m3r | having a huge chunk of our services attached to phpBB is bad for modularity :) |
| 06:28.03 | JeffM2501 | the group manager is just a nice modular way to manage groups |
| 06:28.07 | JeffM2501 | independent of anything else |
| 06:28.24 | L4m3r | groups make a mess in phpBB, too |
| 06:28.30 | JeffM2501 | because they are seperate things |
| 06:28.34 | JeffM2501 | they only tie to servers |
| 06:28.39 | JeffM2501 | they arn't part of phpbb |
| 06:28.42 | JeffM2501 | they arn't part of a CMS |
| 06:28.48 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 06:28.55 | JeffM2501 | they are a service |
| 06:29.11 | JeffM2501 | the list server is a client of that service |
| 06:33.03 | JeffM2501 | other then that I think you'd have to talk with the other people who have been thinking about doing said changes to know anything else |
| 06:40.25 | blast007 | my main concern is that we're writing stuff without any real cooperation, so there's no way it's going to work as a whole anyway |
| 06:41.10 | JeffM2501 | well there is also no way it's going to be writen all at one time as a whole |
| 06:41.20 | blast007 | didn't say it was |
| 06:41.37 | JeffM2501 | got any ideas on how to colaborotize it? |
| 06:41.49 | JeffM2501 | maybe make common "API" pages to do the crosstalk? |
| 06:41.58 | blast007 | an API is one idea |
| 06:41.59 | JeffM2501 | so that backends can change with out the other stuff needing to |
| 06:42.11 | JeffM2501 | it's probably the best |
| 06:42.19 | blast007 | I'd like us to generate some kind of documentation or plan for how it should work, and how things should interact |
| 06:42.28 | JeffM2501 | anything else would be "make it all work in XXX CMS" |
| 06:42.45 | JeffM2501 | I actualy don't think we need THAT much interaction |
| 06:42.58 | JeffM2501 | list pulls from auth and groups and builds up stats data |
| 06:43.02 | JeffM2501 | fourms use auth |
| 06:43.13 | JeffM2501 | group manager uses auth, manages group data. |
| 06:43.25 | blast007 | right ;) |
| 06:43.28 | JeffM2501 | future stats page uses auth, and displays list |
| 06:43.38 | JeffM2501 | list stat data |
| 06:43.42 | blast007 | but right now, there is nothing set on how to store or access that data |
| 06:43.52 | JeffM2501 | future CMS uses auth |
| 06:43.59 | JeffM2501 | auth is the big one |
| 06:44.03 | L4m3r | more modularity, essentially |
| 06:44.19 | JeffM2501 | part of the group manager will be to define the group data structures and how those are stores |
| 06:44.26 | L4m3r | from what I remember, blast007 was doing things in layers so the details could be changed easily |
| 06:44.27 | JeffM2501 | as well as making the list server read that data |
| 06:45.05 | blast007 | for 3.0 we could change how the services work as well |
| 06:45.17 | JeffM2501 | by that you mean list |
| 06:45.24 | blast007 | everything |
| 06:45.27 | JeffM2501 | cus tha'ts the only service tied to the game |
| 06:45.33 | blast007 | stats, list, auth |
| 06:45.36 | JeffM2501 | we can change all the other services right now :) |
| 06:45.50 | JeffM2501 | we can change auth now |
| 06:45.56 | blast007 | stats is "tied to the game" |
| 06:46.01 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 06:46.03 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 06:46.18 | blast007 | and the client does auth a certain way as well |
| 06:46.37 | JeffM2501 | well we MUST keep that method around |
| 06:46.49 | JeffM2501 | we can't make 2.0.x client sudenly stop authing |
| 06:47.02 | JeffM2501 | so any auth system must have a backwards compatable client and server interface |
| 06:47.52 | JeffM2501 | same goes for groups |
| 06:48.03 | JeffM2501 | it must be able to put that data into the old list server |
| 06:48.24 | JeffM2501 | or something with the old list server interface on the old list server URL |
| 06:48.39 | blast007 | right |
| 06:48.56 | JeffM2501 | so as for requirements that's prety much it |
| 06:49.13 | JeffM2501 | if you want server backend specifics, then that's prety much all brlcad |
| 06:49.34 | JeffM2501 | the rest is up to the webheads to figure out |
| 06:49.53 | JeffM2501 | now if you want to pick a head webhead and that person works out a plan for others to follow, more power to ya |
| 06:50.27 | JeffM2501 | but I don't think your going to get invomvemnt from the general developer populance |
| 06:50.36 | JeffM2501 | most will simply just want it to work |
| 06:52.02 | Constitution | there isn't a huge number of "webheads" to be subordinates right now, anyway |
| 06:52.17 | JeffM2501 | that is true |
| 06:52.30 | blast007 | who is there besides Constitution and myself? |
| 06:52.35 | JeffM2501 | l43mr |
| 06:52.36 | blast007 | I mean, not all of it has to be PHP |
| 06:52.43 | blast007 | I'd prefer it wasn't, actually ;) |
| 06:52.50 | JeffM2501 | what else do you want it to be? |
| 06:52.54 | blast007 | C++ |
| 06:53.02 | Constitution | yeah and the client should be PHP |
| 06:53.04 | JeffM2501 | going thru apache ? |
| 06:53.07 | Constitution | we have it all mixed up |
| 06:53.14 | Constitution | ;) |
| 06:53.37 | blast007 | JeffM2501: well, actually one idea I have toyed with is doing some of the stuff as a module for a web server (Apache or Lighttpd) |
| 06:53.41 | blast007 | but still just an idea |
| 06:53.45 | JeffM2501 | still no mater what you'd need a php interface to auth |
| 06:53.56 | blast007 | ...for? |
| 06:54.04 | JeffM2501 | phpbb |
| 06:54.18 | JeffM2501 | and any other sites/services that are php |
| 06:54.21 | blast007 | not if we're using LDAP |
| 06:54.25 | JeffM2501 | I'd expect the group manager to be |
| 06:54.26 | blast007 | or an API |
| 06:54.41 | JeffM2501 | php has an interface to ldap, so you'd have a php interface to ldap in php ;) |
| 06:54.51 | JeffM2501 | that is still an interface |
| 06:54.54 | JeffM2501 | I just said you'd have to have one |
| 06:55.02 | JeffM2501 | not that you'd have to write it from scratch |
| 06:56.22 | JeffM2501 | I'd think you'd want to get the fourms upgrade to phpbb3 before you do ldap |
| 06:56.43 | JeffM2501 | then migrate the registration data to ldap, convert phpbb and the list server to use ldap |
| 06:56.51 | JeffM2501 | then all the services will work, using ldap |
| 06:57.13 | JeffM2501 | at that point then you have seperate projects for adding more services to the ldap auth, and optimising the list server ( the C++ part ) |
| 07:01.21 | JeffM2501 | but if someone wanted to do a group system, I'd think they'd slap auth into a little php file that could get moded, and write a conversion script to pull out the groups from phpbb |
| 07:01.29 | JeffM2501 | and keep them in it's own database |
| 07:01.32 | JeffM2501 | that the list also uses |
| 07:02.09 | Constitution | users and groups should also be modular if that system is going to change |
| 07:02.26 | Constitution | users, as in members |
| 07:02.44 | JeffM2501 | well the part that the group manger cares about won't |
| 07:02.54 | JeffM2501 | there will always be a callsign and a BZID |
| 07:03.04 | JeffM2501 | it gets those from auth |
| 07:03.09 | JeffM2501 | the rest it dosnt' care about |
| 07:03.17 | JeffM2501 | all the other user data I mean |
| 07:03.46 | JeffM2501 | the members of a group should simply be a list of BZIDs |
| 07:03.48 | JeffM2501 | that's it |
| 07:04.01 | JeffM2501 | what else do you need? |
| 07:04.53 | Constitution | I meant the data "layer" or interface |
| 07:05.06 | Constitution | the retrieval method |
| 07:05.25 | JeffM2501 | that's up to the manger, as long as the list can get it that's all that's needed |
| 07:05.40 | Constitution | k |
| 07:05.40 | JeffM2501 | the group manager is NOT a replacment for the valid uses of groups in phpbb for instance |
| 07:05.59 | JeffM2501 | so things like fourm permisions and the like will not be part of it |
| 07:06.02 | JeffM2501 | that will remain in phpbb |
| 07:06.11 | JeffM2501 | since it is fourm related and not game related |
| 07:06.17 | JeffM2501 | the group manger is only for game related groups |
| 07:06.26 | JeffM2501 | and the only way those get to the game is via the list server |
| 07:06.44 | JeffM2501 | if we change that later, then that new system will also be a client like the list server |
| 07:07.03 | JeffM2501 | and to make that easy, it would be nice if you had an API php page or whatever. |
| 07:07.10 | JeffM2501 | or we make a C++ api to the data |
| 07:07.24 | JeffM2501 | but that can happen if we decide to change how groups are sent to the game |
| 07:07.35 | Constitution | yeah an API will be mandatory if we ever go multi-node, I guess |
| 07:07.49 | JeffM2501 | not nesisarly |
| 07:07.54 | JeffM2501 | but it woudl make a lot of things easier |
| 07:08.21 | JeffM2501 | IIRC ldap has groups and can store data |
| 07:08.36 | blast007 | of course LDAP has groups ;) |
| 07:08.52 | JeffM2501 | so if the backend ends up being ldap for groups too, then to make it multi node just means to have a copy of the list server code |
| 07:08.55 | blast007 | users, groups, "servers" (technicaly computers) |
| 07:08.57 | JeffM2501 | and ldap becomes the API |
| 07:09.30 | blast007 | well, not really |
| 07:09.35 | JeffM2501 | but are ether of you looking at doing the ldap swapout before the group system is done? |
| 07:09.50 | blast007 | we're not going to make 3rd party sites interact with LDAP directly |
| 07:09.57 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 07:10.02 | JeffM2501 | weblogin woudl do that |
| 07:10.06 | JeffM2501 | but trusted list nodes would |
| 07:10.08 | blast007 | so we'd have an API system created that would internally talk to LDAP |
| 07:10.14 | blast007 | the LDAP would do more than auth |
| 07:10.18 | blast007 | it would store the servers |
| 07:10.42 | JeffM2501 | again, is anyone going to do the ldap system before the group mananger |
| 07:10.51 | JeffM2501 | I don't know Constitution's time table for the group thing |
| 07:10.53 | blast007 | probably not |
| 07:11.09 | blast007 | time table? you mean a plan? we don't have those kinds of things |
| 07:11.25 | JeffM2501 | then I'd just have it store it's own stuff for now, if you want to take the time to wraper that in a php api ( I assume your doing the manger in php) then that's great. |
| 07:11.37 | JeffM2501 | we don't, but he may have an idea of the time he wants to spend on it |
| 07:11.37 | Constitution | I'm working on the group manager right now... I haven't touched the LDAP stuff, except to do a little research |
| 07:12.01 | JeffM2501 | Constitution: then if I were you I'd just put all the group access and auth stuff into a single place. |
| 07:12.07 | JeffM2501 | so it can be changed easaly |
| 07:12.15 | JeffM2501 | and have both your system and the list server call it |
| 07:12.26 | JeffM2501 | then that will be the start of our API |
| 07:12.33 | JeffM2501 | we can make a C++ one later if we need |
| 07:12.35 | Constitution | the list server... which is being totally redone anyway |
| 07:12.47 | blast007 | Constitution: well, I sorta stopped on that |
| 07:12.48 | JeffM2501 | it is? |
| 07:12.57 | blast007 | s/ sorta// |
| 07:13.09 | Constitution | great |
| 07:13.20 | JeffM2501 | hence why I say wrap it all up :) |
| 07:13.44 | Constitution | ok |
| 07:13.56 | JeffM2501 | once you make the wraper, conver the current list server to use it, even if it just pulls from phpbb at first |
| 07:14.12 | JeffM2501 | then if somone changes the list, they will make it use your wraper API, and you can change the backend whilly nilly |
| 07:14.20 | Constitution | is the one in SVN identical to the live one? |
| 07:14.28 | JeffM2501 | dunno |
| 07:14.34 | JeffM2501 | they are "suposed" to be |
| 07:15.07 | Constitution | probably close enough to see what needs to be changed, anyway |
| 07:15.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah IIRC< it's like 2 maybe 3 places ;) |
| 07:15.26 | blast007 | have fun |
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| 09:54.35 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r16380 10/trunk/db/bzgrpmgr/include/ (8 files in 2 dirs): |
| 09:54.35 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: Significant consolidation of files and class structure. There is now a |
| 09:54.35 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: single data class for the user, group, and site data interfaces. |
| 09:54.35 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: Configuration file moved to root directory. |
| 10:06.02 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r16381 10/trunk/db/bzgrpmgr/ (9 files in 3 dirs): |
| 10:06.02 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: Actually delete those files that were missed. |
| 10:06.02 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: Small updates to the TODO, a few simple stats for the front page, informational content moved to help.php, config template file added, and some small style changes. |
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| 14:28.43 | F687s | wow, I have never realized how idiotic people can be when they put their mind to it. |
| 14:29.34 | delusional | I thought e had talked. |
| 14:29.37 | delusional | we |
| 14:30.17 | F687s | huh? |
| 14:30.43 | short_circuit | I believe he was making a funny |
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| 16:43.04 | Winny | brb |
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| 18:24.44 | Winny | ugh, making a repeatng wall texture is worse then the caution texture :p |
| 18:30.37 | L4m3r | difference clouds are your friend |
| 18:31.07 | Winny | yeah, but they look like crap |
| 18:33.37 | Winny | hmm, I just found a really nice PS plugin for this.. but it costs 70$ |
| 18:34.16 | L4m3r | I generally start with difference clouds and manipulate them until I get what I want |
| 18:34.22 | L4m3r | it's not that hard :P |
| 18:35.00 | Winny | think it's worth buying this? http://www.filterforge.com/filters/235.html |
| 18:35.16 | Winny | I suppose I coul try this in blender too |
| 18:35.17 | Winny | hm |
| 18:43.53 | JeffM | you have to do the quadran swaping thing :) |
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| 18:55.14 | Winny | I THInk I'm gonna buy filterforge |
| 18:56.08 | AHA | Winny: they have a free trial |
| 18:56.31 | Winny | yeah, only 30 days, though. |
| 18:58.54 | Winny | oh man, this is too cool. |
| 19:02.45 | inchworm | it was worth the money? |
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| 19:03.58 | Winny | havent bought it yet.. using the trial ATM |
| 19:06.40 | inchworm | hehe |
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| 19:10.35 | Winny | bought :D |
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| 19:13.02 | inchworm | hehe |
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| 19:46.09 | Winny | I still can't belive how cool this thing is :p |
| 19:47.18 | inchworm | Winter's a pain isn't it |
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| 19:51.44 | Winny | inchworm: that too |
| 19:52.00 | inchworm | :) |
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| 21:36.03 | Winny | how would people feel about more textures included with the client? |
| 21:36.39 | Winny | like, extra basewalls, more concrete-ish textures, etc... |
| 21:36.42 | a_meteorite | "more"? |
| 21:36.50 | Winny | extras for use in maps |
| 21:36.52 | a_meteorite | Would help reduce downloading in many instances |
| 21:36.56 | a_meteorite | I'd go for it |
| 21:36.56 | Winny | yeah |
| 21:37.08 | Winny | one larger download in the beginning would be more desireable, IMO |
| 21:37.21 | a_meteorite | Yeah, instead of a cache.. |
| 21:38.20 | Winny | alright |
| 21:42.10 | Winny | L4m3r: regarding your BZBB comment, I fixed the crappy tiling |
| 21:49.51 | ruskie | why not just a separate tarball with all the textures? |
| 21:50.03 | Tupone | or with the extra one |
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| 21:51.36 | Winny | uh, because the idea would be to include them _with_ the game |
| 21:52.43 | Tupone | of how many Mbyte are you talking about? |
| 21:53.38 | Winny | about 30mb, all standard and extra textures, I think |
| 21:53.55 | Winny | if I ran the pngs through PNGOUT I could probably get it down to ~23 |
| 21:54.19 | inchworm | that's kinda alot of extra textures... |
| 21:54.34 | ruskie | yup |
| 21:54.36 | Winny | _all_ the textures are high rez |
| 21:55.00 | Winny | and you are only downloading them once. |
| 21:55.37 | Winny | You'd rather have the old, low-rez textures? |
| 21:55.46 | inchworm | dunno |
| 21:55.58 | inchworm | but an add on pack would make better sense |
| 21:56.06 | Tupone | you can d/l on request from the server, and cache that |
| 21:56.10 | inchworm | rather than built into the default |
| 21:56.17 | Winny | Tupone: you'd still have to download them |
| 21:56.30 | inchworm | but you'd only download a meg here, a meg there... |
| 21:56.34 | Winny | Im thinking it would be better to just download when you first get the game |
| 21:56.38 | Tupone | if you need it, if the map ask for it |
| 21:56.56 | Winny | yeah, so you wait an extra 20 seconds when you get the gae and then don't wait for texture downloads everywhere |
| 21:57.03 | Tupone | maybe you never need them |
| 21:57.27 | Tupone | or you want to change the default? |
| 21:57.33 | Winny | both |
| 21:57.52 | inchworm | as it is now, it's more flexible |
| 21:57.55 | Tupone | both what? |
| 21:58.05 | ruskie | Winny, hmm would those extra 30 mb be included in the source tarball as well? |
| 21:58.28 | Winny | Im making new default textures to submit as a patch, as well as included "extra" textures to include on a map. |
| 21:58.42 | ruskie | what's wrong with the current ones? |
| 21:59.08 | Winny | they're low rez |
| 21:59.23 | ruskie | so what's wrong with the current ones? |
| 21:59.34 | ruskie | other than they don't comply with your standard of high rez |
| 21:59.51 | Winny | so you're saying we should never change anything for the saving of a few mb? |
| 22:00.06 | ruskie | I always enjoyed bzflag for the gameplay... not for the looks... |
| 22:00.20 | Winny | heh |
| 22:01.15 | ruskie | add high rez textures force ppl to upgrade their rigs to actually enjoy a perfectly fine game |
| 22:01.40 | Winny | if you can't hangle 1024x1024 textures in a few places I think you're due for a new computer anyways |
| 22:01.50 | Winny | anything above a Gefroce 3 or 4 can run that |
| 22:01.51 | ruskie | not really |
| 22:01.56 | ruskie | r9250 here |
| 22:02.31 | ruskie | upgrading for no other reason then to facilitate "high rez" pretty pics which bring nothing much else to the game is a waste of a) money b) resources |
| 22:03.21 | ruskie | imho default textures sholud support as much as possible... |
| 22:03.21 | Winny | it doesn't cost money to download BZFlag |
| 22:03.33 | ruskie | it does waste it to upgrade a box that runs perfectly fine |
| 22:04.04 | Winny | you're right. I can't run BZFlag on 16mb of ram. better not change it. |
| 22:04.25 | Tupone | to mirror it, yes, it cost. If all developer double their size |
| 22:04.39 | ruskie | but for the texture stuff just add it as an optional addon for those that want it |
| 22:04.52 | ruskie | and leave defaults as low-rez so that as many ppl as possible can enjoy the game |
| 22:05.04 | Winny | heh |
| 22:05.19 | a_meteorite | some of those many people are people I'd rather not want playing anyways |
| 22:05.26 | a_meteorite | they take much more time out of the dev's time to support |
| 22:05.32 | Winny | why not have an option that senses your video cards maxtexture support and then downloads the right texture pack? |
| 22:05.51 | Winny | wouldn't be too terribly difficult, I imagine |
| 22:06.14 | ruskie | to many ppl today consider high-quality textures, graphics etc... as something no game should be without... makes me want to throw up all over them |
| 22:06.46 | Winny | heh |
| 22:06.53 | Winny | then you can turn off textures |
| 22:06.56 | a_meteorite | well, we already have good gameplay, there is no reason we can't up the graphics |
| 22:07.07 | a_meteorite | your perspective is for great graphics games with no gameplay. |
| 22:07.22 | ruskie | well great grpahcis kills the good gameplay |
| 22:07.26 | a_meteorite | um |
| 22:07.26 | ruskie | asd it slows down stuff |
| 22:07.34 | Winny | not really |
| 22:07.36 | a_meteorite | we already have textures, why not make them better looking? |
| 22:08.01 | a_meteorite | if it slows down your stuff, maybe you should upgrade your machine when bzflag evolves. or download a low-res texture pack. |
| 22:08.20 | ruskie | I guess I just don't see the point in changing something that works... |
| 22:08.28 | a_meteorite | well, not everything works forever ;) |
| 22:08.39 | Winny | The car gets you where you want to go, should we not improve the mileage? |
| 22:08.40 | a_meteorite | you can't expect bzflag to keep supporting more years every year that evolves |
| 22:09.06 | a_meteorite | if you can't handle it, just turn off textures or go back to low res |
| 22:09.47 | Tupone | Winny: you did not want an answer, then. Just a yes. |
| 22:10.20 | ruskie | well I laid the arguments against... atleast those I find relevant in this case... |
| 22:10.57 | ruskie | though the get the textures afterwards based on detection would work as well |
| 22:12.00 | ruskie | but such a large addon would be better to be separate... |
| 22:13.31 | ruskie | anyway off to bed night all |
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| 22:14.18 | Winny | night |
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| 23:17.02 | JeffM | hmmm, I need a 12 volt DC power supply, where EVER will I get one :) |
| 23:17.31 | JeffM | hey DTRemenak is it the red ones or the yellow ones on a molex connector that are 12 volt? |
| 23:17.44 | gsnedders | JeffM: the outer one |
| 23:17.58 | gsnedders | wait |
| 23:17.58 | ruskie | yellow |
| 23:18.03 | gsnedders | they're both outter :P |
| 23:18.07 | DTRemenak | yellow |
| 23:18.08 | ruskie | bingo :) |
| 23:18.14 | DTRemenak | red is 5 |
| 23:18.19 | JeffM | thanks |
| 23:18.30 | DTRemenak | np |
| 23:18.49 | DTRemenak | JeffM: assuming atx, shortthe green wire and a ground wire |
| 23:19.09 | JeffM | ain't got a green one |
| 23:19.13 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:19.26 | JeffM | looks atish |
| 23:19.32 | JeffM | atxish |
| 23:19.35 | JeffM | but it came out of a dell |
| 23:19.58 | Constitution | Is it important to preserve group ids when transferring the groups to the new management system? |
| 23:20.06 | Constitution | or can we just dump them over |
| 23:20.15 | DTRemenak | it's in the middle, to one side of a whole series of grounds, iirc |
| 23:20.51 | L4m3r | Constitution: I think that since they're referenced by name, the groupIDs shouldn't matter much |
| 23:21.07 | Constitution | yeah, okay |
| 23:21.08 | DTRemenak | like if you have the clip facing you, it's the first non-ground to the left of the clip |
| 23:21.17 | DTRemenak | should be green though |
| 23:21.35 | DTRemenak | err to the right |
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| 23:28.53 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:29.51 | gsnedders | (and I mean _large_. took like 15 minutes to get round it) |
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| 23:36.24 | JeffM | Constitution: IIRC they are refrenced by name in the list server |
| 23:36.27 | JeffM | so it dosn't matter |
| 23:36.42 | JeffM | ahh L4m3r was paying attention :) |
| 23:36.55 | Constitution | yeah I figured, was just checking |
| 23:37.20 | Constitution | so here's how I'm thinking the permissions/moderation will go... |
| 23:37.39 | Constitution | groups will be split up into organizations |
| 23:39.16 | Constitution | each organization will have one "contact" person, in case something goes wrong |
| 23:39.37 | JeffM | the org owner |
| 23:39.45 | Constitution | right |
| 23:40.03 | Constitution | and then each organization will (by default) have a "moderator" group, who's members can make any changes they like to the organization |
| 23:40.35 | JeffM | sounds just like the spec so far |
| 23:40.48 | Constitution | groups can also be created as "user admins" and "group admins", who's members can add/remove users and add/remove groups, respectively |
| 23:42.03 | Constitution | so for instance, I could have a group of moderators for my organization (that can do anything), and then a group of managers who can add/remove users from the admin/cop/league/whatever groups |
| 23:42.16 | JeffM | sure |
| 23:42.40 | Constitution | ok, cool |
| 23:42.42 | JeffM | then just n named groups under the org and your good to go with the spec |
| 23:44.07 | Constitution | so as far as the conversion, I was thinking that a moderators group should be automatically formed with the current moderator(s) of the phpbb groups |
| 23:44.28 | Constitution | not a perfect solution, but it should work for most |
| 23:45.49 | Macrosoft | Winny: about textures, why not have the high and the low res, so ruskie can still play on his old rig |
| 23:46.52 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpernickel (n=Pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe) |
| 23:47.03 | Constitution | double the download size, then |
| 23:47.09 | Constitution | or nearly |
| 23:47.41 | Winny | Constitution: 1/4 |
| 23:47.41 | Winny | when you go from 1024x1024 to 512x512 it goes down by 3/4 size |
| 23:47.41 | Constitution | oh |
| 23:47.41 | Macrosoft | make hi-res an optional download, then |
| 23:47.41 | JeffM | Constitution: yes |
| 23:47.43 | Winny | since you can fit 4 512s into 1 1024 |
| 23:47.55 | L4m3r | not a priority... I wouldn't worry about it |
| 23:47.55 | L4m3r | CAN isn't going anywhere, so we don't have any use for it yet |
| 23:48.22 | Constitution | L4m3r: with regards to what? |
| 23:48.37 | L4m3r | a moderators group |
| 23:48.52 | Constitution | for each organization, I mean |
| 23:49.01 | a_meteorite | L4m3r: and you know this how? |
| 23:49.02 | JeffM | L4m3r: he's talking about the group management syetem I speced |
| 23:49.08 | JeffM | has nothing to do with CAN |
| 23:49.28 | L4m3r | oh, I thought you were talking about a global moderators group |
| 23:49.46 | JeffM | no |
| 23:49.59 | L4m3r | honestly I don't see any reason not to just use phpBB for groups that only deal with phpBB :) |
| 23:50.01 | JeffM | remember that writeup I did about how we can manage the groups better |
| 23:50.11 | JeffM | L4m3r: that's the point |
| 23:50.13 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 23:50.16 | JeffM | the moderator is NOT for phpbb |
| 23:50.19 | JeffM | but for the server groups |
| 23:50.24 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 23:50.30 | JeffM | is so an org can have more then one "owner" |
| 23:50.38 | JeffM | that has full controll over the groups under that org |
| 23:50.52 | JeffM | phpbb only allows one user to add/remove groups |
| 23:51.42 | DTRemenak | yeah, there are a few |
| 23:51.44 | JeffM | yeah they did |
| 23:51.51 | JeffM | that's why I wanted an admin group under the org |
| 23:51.55 | JeffM | moderator is a better title |
| 23:52.06 | JeffM | cus "admin" may beused for other meanings |
| 23:52.56 | JeffM | yup, sounds like you get the spec in all it's glory |
| 23:53.13 | Constitution | "owner" would probably also work for many, but probably better to create a moderators group and let them figure it out |
| 23:53.27 | L4m3r | or .groupadmin |
| 23:53.58 | Constitution | yeah |
| 23:54.13 | L4m3r | are we going to have one supreme overlord for each group, that can add other group mods? |
| 23:55.28 | Constitution | there will no longer be "group mods"... the moderators will be per organization |
| 23:55.48 | L4m3r | oh, right, that's what I meant |
| 23:56.13 | L4m3r | s/group mods/org mods/ |
| 23:56.15 | Macrosoft | any colorblind guys here? this would be of interest of you http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=12005 |
| 23:56.17 | Constitution | I think under the current plan moderators will be able to delete each other, yes |
| 23:56.33 | L4m3r | Macrosoft: Colorblind != retarded |
| 23:56.37 | L4m3r | they can search :) |
| 23:56.46 | Constitution | but before deleting the group contact they will have to re-assign the contact person to be someone else |
| 23:56.58 | DTRemenak | I'd almost rather see a permissions system. "This user may add members to this group, remove them from this or that group, create new groups, but may not add members to this group or delete groups" Sounds excessively complicated though :) |
| 23:57.06 | Macrosoft | L4m3r: when did i call them retarded? |
| 23:57.51 | L4m3r | Constitution: yeah, I can just see one munchkin allowing another to help moderate his group, and then being deleted by the new guy, effectively hijacking his org and groups |
| 23:57.55 | Constitution | DTRemenak: there will be three levels of administration (user admins, group admins, and super admins), so that's effectively what it will be, minus per-group permissions |
| 23:58.05 | Constitution | do you think per-group permissions is needed? |
| 23:58.23 | Constitution | L4m3r: yeah a lot of people share access too much |
| 23:58.41 | DTRemenak | Constitution: several servers have waterfall admin systems, where admins may appoint cops but not other admins, for instance |
| 23:58.48 | L4m3r | sharing access isn't necessarily a bad thing, when the members are trustworthy |
| 23:59.58 | Constitution | DTRemenak: hmm, well I could probably do that... shouldn't be too hard |