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| 00:41.37 | menotume | i smell an orchid |
| 00:42.03 | Legolas_ | oo |
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| 00:43.05 | menotume | :P |
| 00:43.17 | menotume | ciao orchid |
| 00:47.19 | blast007 | :) |
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| 01:10.23 | Constitution | Is it too late to backport the /modcount command to 2.0.x? |
| 01:10.33 | a_meteorite | /modcount ? |
| 01:10.45 | Constitution | modifies countdown clock |
| 01:10.50 | a_meteorite | ahh |
| 01:11.08 | JeffM | techincaly, yes it is |
| 01:11.10 | Constitution | I wouldn't even bother asking, except that it's been in use on some 2.0.x servers for nearly a year (silvercat, for instance) |
| 01:11.12 | JeffM | but what is the reisk? |
| 01:11.18 | JeffM | risk |
| 01:12.04 | Constitution | well I would say it's low, since like I said it's been in use already for a long time (I have the patch from Silverfox from a while back) |
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| 01:12.14 | JeffM | it's a new / command? |
| 01:12.19 | Constitution | yes |
| 01:12.31 | JeffM | so it should not affect old behavor |
| 01:12.36 | Constitution | correct |
| 01:12.41 | JeffM | just those that use the new command ( if there was an issue ) |
| 01:12.47 | JeffM | how invasive is the change? |
| 01:12.53 | JeffM | just the bits for the command? |
| 01:13.12 | Constitution | I think so... let me pastebin the patch real quick |
| 01:13.19 | JeffM | it's ok, I trust you |
| 01:13.28 | JeffM | if your willing to discuss it, it's all good :) |
| 01:13.34 | Constitution | heh, okay :) |
| 01:13.40 | JeffM | how many servers run it do you think? |
| 01:13.49 | Constitution | hmmm |
| 01:14.03 | JeffM | just rough guess |
| 01:14.11 | JeffM | and how many servers do you think would want to run it? |
| 01:14.18 | a_meteorite | I'd use it |
| 01:14.19 | Constitution | well very few servers run countdown games/rotations anyway |
| 01:14.43 | JeffM | well that just reduces the risk as well |
| 01:14.57 | JeffM | if it's not an invasive change, and you feel confident, sure |
| 01:15.04 | JeffM | and if you test the crap out of it :) |
| 01:15.07 | Constitution | okay :) |
| 01:15.39 | JeffM | I'm not adverse to additional backports/changes but I think we need to discuss them first |
| 01:15.52 | JeffM | and be very aware of the risks vs. rewards. |
| 01:16.58 | CBG | nice reward, for sure. |
| 01:17.17 | JeffM | yes |
| 01:17.26 | JeffM | with low risk, hopefully |
| 01:18.15 | Constitution | one other question: apparently there's a way to enable autopilot mode on a server that has _disableBots=1, by hitting 9 at just the right moment before the "Press 'i' to begin" screen shows |
| 01:18.43 | JeffM | yeah probably before specifc state messages are sent |
| 01:18.48 | JeffM | I'd not worry about it |
| 01:18.49 | Constitution | this is apparently because the client checks the BZDB for the value of _disableBots before it has fully loaded the values from the server |
| 01:18.54 | Constitution | yeah |
| 01:19.12 | JeffM | the hack to allow bots is so butt simple, I'd not worry about it |
| 01:19.28 | Constitution | okay |
| 01:19.36 | JeffM | and the disruptive effect of geting an autopilot on a no bots server, is minimal |
| 01:19.53 | JeffM | "oh no.. look, he's gone from playing moderately well, to being rather stupid" |
| 01:20.00 | Constitution | heh |
| 01:20.17 | JeffM | "ban him, no human could play that badly" |
| 01:20.18 | a_meteorite | sometimes auto pilot bots are quite good |
| 01:20.29 | JeffM | so are meatsack players ;) |
| 01:20.30 | Constitution | just thought it should be brought up, in case the same issue might arise for other variables that actually might make a difference |
| 01:20.38 | a_meteorite | they ALWAYS jump at the right moment |
| 01:20.42 | JeffM | disable bots is mostly to disallow -solo botspam |
| 01:20.48 | a_meteorite | you can pretty much only kill one at point blank or when they fall |
| 01:20.51 | JeffM | a_meteorite: so do cheat clients |
| 01:20.54 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 01:21.06 | a_meteorite | normal players don't use cheats ;) |
| 01:21.20 | a_meteorite | we were comparing the risk of an autopilot to a normal player |
| 01:21.25 | JeffM | then a "normal player" that does this esoteric action to get it, is cheating |
| 01:21.30 | JeffM | deal with him the same way |
| 01:21.32 | JeffM | tell him |
| 01:21.42 | Constitution | JeffM: I'll close the bug report on SourceForge, then? |
| 01:21.46 | JeffM | if they keep doing it, it's the same as moding the cleint, cus they are doing it on pourpose. |
| 01:21.51 | Constitution | re: autopilot mode |
| 01:21.55 | JeffM | Constitution: no, keep it open, it'd be nice to fix for 2.2 |
| 01:22.01 | Constitution | k |
| 01:22.21 | JeffM | Optimaly, I'd love autopilot to just turn your logic over to a serverside player |
| 01:22.36 | JeffM | and remove all bot code from the client |
| 01:22.46 | JeffM | so it's all ether bzrobots or server side bots. |
| 01:25.56 | Constitution | I noticed the other day that the new plugin permission isn't included in groups with +ALL... is that on purpose? |
| 01:26.15 | JeffM | the plug-in ones are custom perms |
| 01:26.18 | JeffM | not normal perms |
| 01:26.27 | Constitution | I mean the one for loading and unloading plugins |
| 01:26.28 | JeffM | operators have all custom perms |
| 01:26.31 | JeffM | those are custom perms |
| 01:26.34 | Constitution | in 2.0? |
| 01:26.36 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:26.44 | JeffM | custom perms have been in for a while |
| 01:26.48 | Constitution | oh, operators... |
| 01:26.57 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:27.01 | JeffM | ops have em |
| 01:27.12 | JeffM | the custom perm test just returns true if they are an op |
| 01:27.25 | JeffM | other then that, they have to be given out manualy |
| 01:27.30 | JeffM | so yes, that's intentional |
| 01:27.38 | JeffM | it's not the same as spawn, and other built in perms |
| 01:27.38 | Constitution | is there a reason why we don't want it included in +ALL? |
| 01:27.50 | Constitution | IMHO, it could make it a pain to reconfigure servers for 2.0.10 |
| 01:28.15 | JeffM | not really, the users must have groups for the current admins |
| 01:28.19 | JeffM | they just add the perm |
| 01:28.33 | JeffM | I don't think that many servers give out ALL to people that can just kick and ban |
| 01:28.51 | JeffM | but if you want to, make the custom perm test return true if they have +ALL as well |
| 01:28.56 | JeffM | that'd do the same thing |
| 01:29.06 | JeffM | for any future custom perm |
| 01:29.26 | JeffM | I didn't do a built in perm cus techincaly plugins are "optinal" |
| 01:29.26 | Constitution | alright, fair enough |
| 01:29.35 | Constitution | hmmm |
| 01:29.57 | JeffM | the load and unload / commands arn't implemented via the normal built in system, but via the same custom slash command that plug-ins use |
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| 01:30.17 | Constitution | oh |
| 01:30.19 | JeffM | so if you turn off plug-ins, it basicly just dosn't clutter the code anywhere else |
| 01:31.00 | JeffM | all code dealing with plug-ins ( load, unload, list, perms, etc.. ) are all in bzfsPlugins.cxx |
| 01:31.25 | Constitution | thanks... I'll take a look |
| 01:31.28 | JeffM | kill that file, don't call initPlugIns() and the server can be done static |
| 01:31.56 | JeffM | do we set a flag checking if they have all perms? |
| 01:33.34 | Constitution | not sure what you mean |
| 01:34.14 | JeffM | when a user or group has +all, do we just set all the perms to true, or do we set some boolean that just says "he has all" |
| 01:39.00 | Constitution | looks like it sets them all |
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| 02:25.23 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15949 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): modcount slash command implementation |
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| 02:36.06 | DTRemenak | Constitution: don't forget to update the changelog (and sync the change to trunk, if it's not already there) |
| 02:37.26 | Constitution | k |
| 02:45.40 | Constitution | what constitutes whether a change is significant enough to go into ChangeLog? |
| 02:47.26 | Constitution | I have like four things I think should be added: /modcount command, fix for bug locking players in autopilot mode, fix for bug where poll results aren't announced, and antikill notice fix |
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| 02:54.37 | Thumper_ | Constitution: anything that is visible (to players or server owners) should be in the Changelog |
| 02:55.24 | DTRemenak | Constitution: whether or not a user-visible change goes in the changelog is left to the developer's discretion. If it were me, I'd put them all in. |
| 02:55.32 | Constitution | k |
| 02:56.24 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15950 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/ChangeLog: A few new features for the ChangeLog. |
| 02:58.50 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15951 10/trunk/bzflag/NEWS: News item for fix for bug where users get locked into autopilot mode |
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| 15:26.02 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r15952 10/trunk/bzflag/ (18 files in 6 dirs): allow plugins to register custom flag types, and make the client handle them properly. now would y'all PLEASE stop overloading Useless? |
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| 15:38.56 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r15953 10/trunk/bzflag/src/date/buildDate.cxx: previous commit requires protocol bump |
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| 17:11.55 | Supaplex | overloading what? |
| 17:13.39 | delusional | useless |
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| 17:15.08 | delusional | ever hear of useless mines? |
| 17:15.47 | SpazzyMcGee | ~seen CBG |
| 17:15.49 | ibot | cbg <n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 15h 58m 51s ago, saying: 'nice reward, for sure.'. |
| 17:22.49 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15954 10/trunk/bzflag/TODO: add notes from monday morning meeting with DTRemenak. Notes on message buffers, flag effects for fully custom flags, and hit responces. |
| 17:25.36 | JeffM | Erroneous, we'd get a lot more ideas fleshed out if more people worked here :) |
| 17:25.43 | blast007 | heh |
| 17:25.45 | Erroneous | totally |
| 17:26.03 | JeffM | I'd love to hire blast007 |
| 17:26.07 | JeffM | but he's in another state |
| 17:26.18 | blast007 | Insanity? |
| 17:26.18 | JeffM | we totaly need an IT guy and a post dev |
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| 17:27.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 17:30.19 | *** topic/#bzflag by JeffM -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10RC 2 tag and build today (2:00 PST) (9/24) |
| 17:30.47 | JeffM | that'll be what in GMT? |
| 17:31.13 | JeffM | 20:00? |
| 17:31.22 | *** topic/#bzflag by JeffM -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10RC 2 tag and build today (14:00 PST 20:00 GMT ) (9/24) |
| 17:33.09 | *** topic/#bzflag by JeffM -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10RC 2 tag and build today (14:00 PST 22:00 GMT ) (9/24) |
| 17:33.16 | JeffM | sorry, can't add :( |
| 17:38.35 | Supaplex | o.O |
| 17:38.55 | Supaplex | JeffM: where's the it opening at? |
| 17:38.58 | Supaplex | s/it/IT/ |
| 17:39.07 | JeffM | moorpark california |
| 17:39.13 | Supaplex | oh :-/ |
| 17:39.20 | JeffM | junior IT dude |
| 17:39.21 | Supaplex | that's a long commute from Utah |
| 17:39.26 | JeffM | indeed |
| 17:40.57 | Tupone | I have not seen /modcount in the features list for the release, nor is this a bug. Explanation from someone? |
| 17:41.36 | JeffM | it was an older patch, that constitution asked if he could apply |
| 17:41.51 | Tupone | well, you don't think is too late for that? |
| 17:41.55 | JeffM | we discussed it at great lenthgh and flet the risk was minimal as well as the reward |
| 17:42.11 | JeffM | possibly |
| 17:42.21 | JeffM | I was reluctant at first, but we discussed it |
| 17:42.25 | Tupone | we you mean JeffM and macsforme? or we as a community? |
| 17:42.34 | JeffM | we discussed it here |
| 17:42.43 | Tupone | when? |
| 17:42.47 | JeffM | yesterday |
| 17:43.37 | Tupone | Well, I didn't remember. But please ... any discussion on feature list that could stop the release, I think should be in the feature list on the wiki, or call a meeting on /topic |
| 17:43.59 | JeffM | that coudl stop the release, I agree |
| 17:44.11 | JeffM | this has no affect on existing behavor |
| 17:44.27 | JeffM | but I'll pull it if you would like |
| 17:44.44 | JeffM | as I said, I was borderline, his willingness to discuss it in public was what turned me |
| 17:45.08 | Tupone | yeah, please. and start the freeze asap . 22 GMT is ok |
| 17:45.43 | Tupone | unless we want to delay the release |
| 17:45.45 | JeffM | the freeze is in effect, no new features, or fixes with out discussion |
| 17:45.47 | blast007 | JeffM: is the observers count not supposed to show up in the Server List for servers running 2.0.9/2.0.10RC1? |
| 17:46.01 | JeffM | blast007, that is correct |
| 17:46.22 | JeffM | blast007, it shoudl only report real players. |
| 17:46.31 | Tupone | modcount discussion I don't see in http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/20070923.html.gz |
| 17:46.42 | Tupone | maybe that is not still logged |
| 17:46.42 | JeffM | it may have been after midnight GMT |
| 17:46.50 | JeffM | it was in my afternoon |
| 17:46.51 | blast007 | JeffM: okay, then shouldn't we remove the line that shows the count? |
| 17:47.03 | JeffM | blast007, old servers will report it |
| 17:47.04 | blast007 | it's going to be 0 anyway |
| 17:47.07 | blast007 | hmm |
| 17:47.08 | blast007 | k |
| 17:47.21 | JeffM | it's not perfect, we'll clean it up good for 2.1 |
| 17:47.43 | blast007 | the stats site will also not query 2.0.10 servers with just observers |
| 17:47.49 | blast007 | that has both good and bad sides |
| 17:47.59 | blast007 | good that it will speed up the update a bit |
| 17:48.09 | JeffM | slow that they won't show |
| 17:48.09 | blast007 | bad that it won't necessarily show everyone who is online |
| 17:48.21 | JeffM | sounds like it's time to change how stats works ;) |
| 17:48.26 | JeffM | push in stead of pull |
| 17:48.30 | blast007 | :) |
| 17:49.15 | Tupone | I think the client changes are a no go now, unless there is a crashing bug, or is the building system that does not work. I think we cannot tolerate a non-working client now. |
| 17:49.21 | ts | Hmm, push would only be available to mbo, right? |
| 17:49.25 | Tupone | For build, Legolas still cannot build |
| 17:49.36 | ts | A lot of people use strayer's stats nowadays |
| 17:49.44 | Tupone | well, it can build but the result is broken |
| 17:50.12 | JeffM | Tupone, on what OS? |
| 17:50.15 | JeffM | the mac? |
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| 17:50.19 | Tupone | yeah |
| 17:50.20 | Tupone | intel |
| 17:50.32 | JeffM | ok, well then lets push on that |
| 17:50.37 | JeffM | who here has an intel mac? |
| 17:50.48 | JeffM | what is broken about the build? |
| 17:51.02 | Tupone | JeffM: are you removing modcount changes I guess. |
| 17:51.16 | Tupone | I get a crash line, but I don't remeber why |
| 17:51.18 | brlcad | it builds just fine on mac last I checked on friday |
| 17:51.18 | JeffM | so far I have not seen any reason to do so. |
| 17:51.19 | ts | Saturus has one, he's a friend of me. Should I ask him to come here? |
| 17:51.23 | brlcad | (intel and ppc) |
| 17:51.44 | JeffM | I understand your concerns for it but I don't feel the code will impact the release, if you feel strongly about it that would give me reason |
| 17:52.20 | Tupone | JeffM: just that we should start to have the feeling that a release "is" a release |
| 17:52.34 | JeffM | I mean we wraped your changes up in an option to make them less risky |
| 17:52.41 | Erroneous | modcount has been running on live servers for months |
| 17:52.45 | JeffM | his is wrapped the same way |
| 17:52.51 | JeffM | and yes, has had LOTs of testing. |
| 17:52.54 | Tupone | Is a server only changes? |
| 17:52.56 | JeffM | yes |
| 17:52.57 | Erroneous | yes |
| 17:52.59 | JeffM | a new / command |
| 17:53.07 | JeffM | if noone calls it, that code is not executed. |
| 17:53.30 | Tupone | ok, then I have nothing against, but please, reject any new features changes |
| 17:53.33 | JeffM | very similar to how your code is not enabled unless the var is set |
| 17:53.43 | JeffM | no, I will not automaticly regject them |
| 17:53.51 | JeffM | I will discuss them |
| 17:53.52 | Tupone | I will on the client |
| 17:54.10 | JeffM | the clooser we get the more I will be reluctant |
| 17:54.23 | JeffM | the curve has an asemtote ;) |
| 17:54.50 | JeffM | I don't forsee any more |
| 17:55.02 | JeffM | but on that line, I'd like people to discuss bug fixes too |
| 17:55.10 | JeffM | ANY change in that code base needs discussion |
| 17:55.12 | Tupone | with you, I guess |
| 17:55.14 | JeffM | BEFORE it's implemented |
| 17:55.18 | JeffM | with at least somone else |
| 17:55.32 | JeffM | I'm willing to discuss it if I'm here, but there are others |
| 17:55.36 | Chestal | modcount seems to be missing in the bzfs manpage |
| 17:56.01 | JeffM | we need to minimise the risk fo breakting things, so we need discusions and reviews of all changes. |
| 17:56.06 | Chestal | (I guess there is a high chance that more commands are missing) |
| 17:56.12 | JeffM | Chestal, that is possible |
| 17:56.32 | JeffM | constution usualy gets on in the day, I'll ask him to add it, if he can't I"ll add it before 2 |
| 17:56.48 | Tupone | if those change does not intersect 2.0.10 they will just be put on SVN, why the need to hurry? |
| 17:57.03 | Chestal | why the change to reporting observers? |
| 17:57.37 | JeffM | Tupone, I mean branch only, trunk is free game |
| 17:57.42 | JeffM | Chestal, it was probably a mistake, now that I thiunk about it. |
| 17:57.49 | Tupone | me too, I mean branch only. |
| 17:57.51 | JeffM | I made the change to not report bots |
| 17:57.54 | Tupone | We are talking about release |
| 17:58.07 | Chestal | ah, hmm |
| 17:58.13 | JeffM | Tupone, how can you make a change to branch that dosn't affect the release? |
| 17:58.23 | Tupone | you just wait :) |
| 17:58.38 | JeffM | well or put it in trunk |
| 17:58.43 | Tupone | feature freeze does not mean anything to you then |
| 17:58.52 | JeffM | realy I don't think we should do much more in 2.0.1 |
| 17:58.54 | JeffM | x |
| 17:59.10 | JeffM | and if we do, it shold be it's own branch |
| 17:59.13 | Chestal | should be easy to report observers but omit robots? |
| 17:59.16 | JeffM | like a cheat fix branch |
| 17:59.30 | JeffM | Chestal, yes it should be let me look at what I changed. |
| 17:59.50 | JeffM | everyone wants observers repoirted right? they arn't used in the sort int he server list are they? |
| 18:00.11 | Chestal | they are used, but wiht a weight of 0.001 or so |
| 18:00.17 | JeffM | ok |
| 18:00.38 | JeffM | the reasoning behind the bots was so that people could not use them to get on the top of the list |
| 18:01.02 | Chestal | yes, I understand there was one particular server abusing that |
| 18:01.16 | JeffM | more then one in the past |
| 18:01.20 | JeffM | one recently |
| 18:01.41 | ts | Why don't we ban servers that abuse listing? |
| 18:01.42 | Tupone | I think 2.0.x is not still dead, While I'm not sure about 2.1 as is now |
| 18:01.59 | JeffM | ok so I'm going to make it count observers |
| 18:03.05 | JeffM | and not count noTeam and AutomaticTeam, |
| 18:03.17 | JeffM | not that any server player should be set to those. |
| 18:03.33 | JeffM | Tupone, if that is the case, we have a serious problem. we can't have full branches going dead like 1.8 |
| 18:04.55 | Tupone | well, that is only my opinion, I don't trust what is in. Most of the things there are without any seroius discussion, and to me ... wrong |
| 18:04.59 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15955 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: count observers for ping replies. |
| 18:04.59 | Tupone | serious |
| 18:05.02 | JeffM | it's a small change, but can somone review that please? and can somone test it? |
| 18:05.17 | JeffM | Tupone, that's how we made 2.0.x |
| 18:05.23 | JeffM | people just threw stuff in |
| 18:05.25 | JeffM | wings |
| 18:05.28 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 18:05.32 | JeffM | meshes |
| 18:05.45 | Tupone | nope, there were a lot of discussion there, well except for meshes |
| 18:06.09 | blast007 | I don't remember Wings being discussed |
| 18:06.10 | JeffM | there was wings discussion AFTER the fact, IIRC. |
| 18:06.23 | JeffM | but not before, IIRC it was just scanlime tossing it in. |
| 18:06.26 | blast007 | yeah, probably |
| 18:06.39 | JeffM | like after the full release that had it, many hated it. |
| 18:07.18 | JeffM | If you want to go for a more structured, roadmaped development, I'm all for it. |
| 18:07.37 | JeffM | like real feature lists and a *gasp* design. |
| 18:07.53 | JeffM | I've been asking for those for years ;) |
| 18:09.04 | Tupone | I think you know, I want to go for declared step, not too many features in, testable and then released. Any line of development should be agreed and not throw in as one like |
| 18:09.15 | JeffM | hell yeah |
| 18:09.22 | JeffM | major change from how we do it now |
| 18:09.47 | JeffM | but that means we have to bang out a design |
| 18:09.53 | Tupone | When I started 2.1 the line of my changes (shot) was in the forum and discussed |
| 18:10.02 | blast007 | could probably release more often too |
| 18:10.07 | *** join/#bzflag bz95 (n=c35d1569@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:10.07 | blast007 | since you'd have a roadmap |
| 18:10.09 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:10.14 | JeffM | that's the point of them ;) |
| 18:10.28 | JeffM | as well as having something to point too when people want to help |
| 18:10.31 | Tupone | I have not seen anyone doing the same |
| 18:10.50 | Tupone | I'm not talking about bug fixes |
| 18:10.55 | JeffM | well that's understandable, because it's never been like that in the past |
| 18:11.13 | JeffM | and there has never been any indication to others that they SHOULD do it that way |
| 18:11.21 | JeffM | it's a good way |
| 18:11.37 | JeffM | but we can't just hope that everyone will pick up on it, we need to let people know that it is the new way |
| 18:11.58 | JeffM | and get all the major commiters to do it |
| 18:12.06 | JeffM | then that will be the proper way |
| 18:12.29 | Tupone | well, I think reg-exp was discussed before, and authorization, like I said it was. The only thing I see now, even if I don't have now the URL, is the new bz superserver |
| 18:12.40 | Tupone | well, dunno the name. The list server |
| 18:12.54 | JeffM | yes because those take more then one person |
| 18:13.17 | JeffM | did you expect people to just pick up on what you had done, and emulate it? |
| 18:13.37 | Tupone | what I've done? |
| 18:13.49 | JeffM | hwo you laied out your discussion on the froums for 2.1 |
| 18:14.15 | Tupone | I don't want they put on the forum, just a place where we, as a community, now where we are going |
| 18:14.31 | Tupone | Forum is a bad way. Maybe a wiki, a maillist, whatever |
| 18:14.58 | Tupone | Don't want people do like I do, My way is only "my" way |
| 18:15.01 | JeffM | have you expressed this desire to others, like in the dev docs and stuff ( I haven't read it in a while ) |
| 18:15.13 | JeffM | well it's a good way I think |
| 18:15.31 | JeffM | but my opinion is that it won't work unless you enforce it in some way |
| 18:15.53 | JeffM | if you say that people can do stuff thier way, they are just going to commit stuff like they have been |
| 18:16.13 | Tupone | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_2.0.10 could be a way |
| 18:16.29 | JeffM | yes, the wiki is a good tool that we have now |
| 18:16.47 | JeffM | but we don't tell anyone that they should use it for feature discussions ;) |
| 18:16.52 | JeffM | so they have to think of it on there own |
| 18:17.41 | Tupone | but they have to not commit their desire, unless discussed in a shared way (talking of big things) |
| 18:18.12 | JeffM | well we don't enforce that |
| 18:18.14 | JeffM | we'd have to |
| 18:18.19 | JeffM | I'd like to |
| 18:19.22 | JeffM | but wiuth out the support of everyone I fear it will fail |
| 18:19.35 | JeffM | all it takes is one person to commit there own stuff, to break it all |
| 18:19.45 | JeffM | I mean commit with out discussion, etc.. |
| 18:20.20 | JeffM | it's ether that or we go patch based, and have a group of people who commit all the patches that fit the plan |
| 18:20.25 | JeffM | more work IMHO |
| 18:20.36 | Tupone | yes. But remember that one target of my unwelcomed commit is you :) |
| 18:20.51 | JeffM | target? |
| 18:21.24 | Tupone | well, I means, some of the commit that I don't like are actually coming from you, as you are the most frequent commiter |
| 18:21.31 | Tupone | :) |
| 18:21.56 | JeffM | that is a core problem with our current system |
| 18:22.00 | Tupone | probably just question of statistics |
| 18:22.02 | Chestal | ever since I stopped reading full irc backlog, I totally lost scope of what is going on in dev |
| 18:23.17 | Tupone | Well, I'm continuing to read it, but I found mostly nothing, just bug coming at surface |
| 18:23.49 | JeffM | well if we had a roadmap, it'd be easyer to leave and come back |
| 18:23.50 | Tupone | and CIA msg, that are already in my mailbox |
| 18:27.34 | JeffM | I'd still realy like to know how the firefox people do it |
| 18:27.50 | JeffM | I guess it'll be a good thing to talk to the people at the google confrence about |
| 18:27.54 | JeffM | Erroneous, you get your invite yet? |
| 18:30.33 | brlcad | Chestal: *gasp*, you stopped reading backlog?? *sniff* |
| 18:31.02 | *** join/#bzflag mashroom_ (n=tasty@89-138-160-132.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 18:31.23 | Chestal | brlcad: 1-2 years ago :-) |
| 18:31.28 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:31.42 | Chestal | just not enough time to really follow bz dev or even participate in it anymore :-( |
| 18:34.56 | JeffM | brlcad, make sure that Erroneous got his invite, so we can book a flight |
| 18:38.59 | *** join/#bzflag mashroom_ (n=tasty@89-138-160-132.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 18:46.50 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-71-106.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 18:54.12 | brlcad | Erroneous: er.. i sent you both one last week |
| 18:54.21 | Manu | hola brlcad :) |
| 18:54.30 | brlcad | like on thursday, or whichever day we were talking about it |
| 18:54.33 | Erroneous | that may well be true...but I have not gotten one yet :) |
| 18:54.36 | brlcad | hola Manu |
| 18:54.43 | brlcad | sent to your sf.net iirc |
| 18:54.46 | *** join/#bzflag mashroom_18 (n=tasty@89.138.230.25) |
| 18:55.22 | Erroneous | assuming users.sourceforge.net, that address should be valid |
| 18:58.03 | Erroneous | yup...on thursday I got two bzflag digests and 21 spams. nothing containing google or jot. |
| 18:59.17 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3 (n=alvin@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:59.48 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@212.71.10.175) |
| 19:02.47 | Erroneous | brlcad: if you'd like to resend it, gmail would probably be a better place for it to end up |
| 19:10.13 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-24 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 19:10.16 | *** join/#bzflag moonpix (n=taz@unaffiliated/moonpix) |
| 19:22.37 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@p54A3DB4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:26.02 | *** join/#bzflag pbrane (n=mike@71.30.224.88) |
| 19:30.05 | *** join/#bzflag anomaly (n=anomaly@71.30.224.88) |
| 19:32.14 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsangS@ACC93D1D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:32.28 | jftsang | whatever happened to bzflag3.norang.ca:5189? |
| 19:33.17 | Winny | it ran after the ice cream truck |
| 19:33.29 | jftsang | :( |
| 19:33.42 | jftsang | seriously |
| 19:33.53 | Winny | Aren't I not always never serious? |
| 19:42.26 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 19:52.23 | jftsang | did a guy called jesusisaeuf go on and tell the norang guys to destroy it |
| 19:52.24 | brlcad | Erroneous: k |
| 19:52.47 | brlcad | no http here at the moment, though, so have to be later this evening |
| 19:55.24 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 19:56.37 | JeffM | brlcad, what time were you going to land on friday? |
| 19:57.48 | Tupone | I'm going to put 2.0.10rc2 on configure.ac for the tar name. Anyone against it? |
| 19:57.58 | JeffM | sounds good |
| 19:58.23 | JeffM | have any more info on the one person with the bad mac build? |
| 19:58.45 | Tupone | Have not found it |
| 19:59.06 | JeffM | do we know if others have built and worked on the mac? |
| 19:59.27 | brlcad | it worked for me as of friday |
| 19:59.38 | brlcad | uni even |
| 19:59.45 | JeffM | well that's good |
| 19:59.58 | Tupone | https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1772656&group_id=3248&atid=103248 |
| 20:00.08 | Tupone | I think this is the guy |
| 20:00.15 | Tupone | Error was the one shown |
| 20:00.45 | Tupone | Maybe a wrong way to build on his side? |
| 20:01.11 | JeffM | sure it wasn't 2.1? |
| 20:01.32 | Tupone | well, the error Legolas told me is on 2.0.10 |
| 20:01.45 | Tupone | when he select a server IIRC |
| 20:02.05 | JeffM | NSLayoutManager is part of the apple text system |
| 20:02.06 | Tupone | from the list server, or just clicking in the arrow |
| 20:02.08 | brlcad | his version of curl probably |
| 20:02.21 | JeffM | fink maybe? |
| 20:02.31 | brlcad | when that response comes back, if they have the buggy curl, it screws over the client at a seemingly random point |
| 20:05.16 | a_meteorite | JeffM: I built it, works good on my mac |
| 20:05.25 | Tupone | so, if I see him again, I should ask to come here, or use what version of curl? |
| 20:05.26 | a_meteorite | but I think my build system or libs are *slightly* screwed |
| 20:05.39 | a_meteorite | cause I get an NS type exception without it being reproducable |
| 20:05.53 | a_meteorite | (this is a fresh install as of two weeks ago, so it could be some bad libs or whatever) |
| 20:07.16 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 20:07.23 | JeffM | I';d think the version apple ships is fine |
| 20:07.31 | brlcad | Tupone: yeah, have him come in here -- or more importantly have him press for the rc2 binary so he can test it |
| 20:07.37 | *** part/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsangS@ACC93D1D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:07.56 | brlcad | more important that the binary we provide is working than whether their paricular configuration is working |
| 20:08.00 | Tupone | press? what you mean by it? |
| 20:08.04 | brlcad | ask |
| 20:08.34 | Tupone | we had the binary on rc1? |
| 20:09.03 | Tupone | but, ok, we will have rc2 pretty soon now |
| 20:10.26 | JeffM | brlcad, you gonna make one for RC2? |
| 20:12.04 | brlcad | Tupone: no, I missed the boat on rc1 (family matter came up) |
| 20:12.27 | a_meteorite | willing to build a universal binary if needed |
| 20:12.41 | brlcad | I definitely intend to |
| 20:13.54 | jorgenpt | Yay |
| 20:13.58 | Tupone | hehe |
| 20:13.59 | jorgenpt | Do you like my new nick? |
| 20:14.00 | Tupone | yep |
| 20:14.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 20:14.06 | JeffM | there's only one more thing I'd like to have for the next RC and I'm trying to get it right now |
| 20:14.13 | JeffM | and it won't be breaking ;) |
| 20:14.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 20:15.26 | JeffM | ibot saturos++ |
| 20:15.41 | jorgenpt | Hm, doesn't linking daxxar and jorgenpt give me voice? |
| 20:15.59 | JeffM | auto voice is only for a specific few |
| 20:16.02 | jorgenpt | Oh, daxxar isn't voiced either. :-( |
| 20:16.03 | JeffM | we rarely use voice |
| 20:16.32 | JeffM | a couple long time users were auto voiced when we had a bad spam run a while ago |
| 20:16.45 | jorgenpt | Mkay |
| 20:17.05 | JeffM | I assume noone will object to me commiting a new titile image ( just says .10, instead of .8) ;) |
| 20:17.21 | JeffM | saturos is rendering a new flag right now |
| 20:18.37 | brlcad | works for me |
| 20:18.45 | tannerld | ~Thumper_++ |
| 20:18.58 | brlcad | does it look any different? |
| 20:19.05 | JeffM | naw, I just asked him to change the number |
| 20:19.11 | brlcad | k |
| 20:19.27 | JeffM | figure we can do a logo change at 2.2 |
| 20:19.42 | JeffM | maybe by then have a new tank ;) |
| 20:19.55 | tannerld | O.o |
| 20:20.39 | jorgenpt | Did you get any response on the publiser front, brlcad? |
| 20:20.56 | JeffM | Epyon, yes that would be best |
| 20:20.59 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@p54A3DB4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:22.11 | Epyon | The only problem is how to handle destruction. |
| 20:22.27 | Epyon | Yet the models could still be made out of separate "pieces" |
| 20:22.41 | JeffM | naw that's cake |
| 20:22.50 | JeffM | it's not a hard problem to solve |
| 20:23.00 | JeffM | it's just tedious in coding |
| 20:23.14 | JeffM | OBJ supports named groups |
| 20:23.15 | Epyon | Tedious? |
| 20:23.19 | JeffM | you'd just use those as chunks |
| 20:23.35 | JeffM | lots of little places to change |
| 20:23.37 | Epyon | What's tedious to code? |
| 20:23.43 | Epyon | Aaah :/ |
| 20:23.49 | JeffM | I started it |
| 20:23.53 | JeffM | need to finish it one day |
| 20:24.00 | Epyon | But it would be a worthy feature :) |
| 20:24.06 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:24.19 | JeffM | so would fixing the cheat exploits ;) |
| 20:24.19 | Epyon | If you do it, I can promise some models :) |
| 20:24.22 | JeffM | silly CIA |
| 20:25.40 | JeffM | Tupone, you have the makefile set to do "rc2" not "RC2" right? |
| 20:25.57 | Tupone | yep |
| 20:26.00 | JeffM | k |
| 20:26.18 | JeffM | I'm matching the installer to that string |
| 20:26.25 | Epyon | Sorry about the lack of promised BZWGen updates, all my luck -- I got deadly sick right a week before the exam :'( |
| 20:27.54 | JeffM | can a board admin please proofread this for me? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=115276 |
| 20:28.57 | JeffM | the bot is fine |
| 20:29.03 | JeffM | it's the link to the site feed |
| 20:29.09 | JeffM | it's not geting them all :( |
| 20:46.17 | *** join/#bzflag Doctor-Who (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:46.56 | brlcad | jorgenpt: I've not gotten to that mailbox just yet |
| 20:47.03 | brlcad | i'll know in a couple hours |
| 20:47.35 | brlcad | either way, the publishing window would still likely be several months so I might just post it up regardless |
| 20:48.55 | jorgenpt | Okaydokay. |
| 20:49.03 | jorgenpt | Let me know, still pining to read it ;-) |
| 20:53.14 | JeffM | ok, the logo is updated |
| 20:53.22 | JeffM | anyone want to do the tag? |
| 20:53.28 | JeffM | I'm never sure if I do them right |
| 20:53.40 | Erroneous | you did it right last time |
| 20:53.50 | JeffM | I had to make a dir in the tags folder |
| 20:53.57 | JeffM | then do the tag/copy |
| 20:53.58 | Erroneous | worked, didn't it? :) |
| 20:54.00 | JeffM | I guess |
| 20:57.06 | JeffM | and I guess somone taged the version file |
| 20:57.12 | JeffM | man, it sucks not having CIA :( |
| 20:58.57 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsangS@ACC93D1D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:59.10 | JeffM | Tag is done |
| 20:59.29 | Tupone | I did |
| 20:59.32 | *** topic/#bzflag by JeffM -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10RC 2 tag and build Now |
| 20:59.36 | *** part/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsangS@ACC93D1D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 21:00.09 | JeffM | I won't build a source zip cus the makefile ones seem to work so far |
| 21:01.26 | Tupone | you mean no sources ? |
| 21:01.39 | JeffM | I mean I won't build my own zip with the soruces for windows |
| 21:01.48 | JeffM | we can use the one from whoever does the nix ones |
| 21:01.55 | JeffM | since the makefile builds a .zip now |
| 21:02.51 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r15960 10/tags/v2_0_10_RC2/: Tag for 2.0.10RC2 |
| 21:03.28 | Epyon | When will 2.0.12 be out? :) |
| 21:04.17 | JeffM | wierd that it got that, but not the image I added |
| 21:04.38 | *** join/#bzflag Doctor-Who (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:23.28 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 21:25.16 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsangS@ACC93D1D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 21:25.25 | jftsang | ~pastebin |
| 21:25.26 | ibot | from memory, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 21:25.38 | jftsang | ~bzpastebin |
| 21:25.38 | ibot | bzpastebin is probably http://pastebin.bzflag.bz a place to put large chunks of text to not flood a channel |
| 21:26.57 | JeffM | ok, the post and windows build is up, can somone make source tarbals? |
| 21:27.03 | JeffM | and the like? |
| 21:27.26 | Constitution | aren't source tarballs already up? |
| 21:27.41 | JeffM | for RC1 |
| 21:27.49 | JeffM | unless somone just made them and didn't say anything |
| 21:28.01 | JeffM | I don't see them in the dir |
| 21:28.24 | jftsang | what does BZFS mean by "missing end parameter" |
| 21:28.26 | jftsang | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2e0cdf19 |
| 21:28.40 | Constitution | does it give a line |
| 21:28.41 | Constitution | ? |
| 21:28.58 | jftsang | yes |
| 21:29.06 | jftsang | line |
| 21:29.08 | jftsang | 337 |
| 21:29.17 | jftsang | *377 |
| 21:29.33 | jftsang | or line 12 of pastebin code |
| 21:32.33 | Constitution | jftsang: eventteam needs a numeric value |
| 21:32.39 | jftsang | AAH |
| 21:32.42 | Constitution | 1-red, 2-green, 3-blue, 4-purple |
| 21:32.43 | jftsang | not on the wiki :P |
| 21:33.31 | jftsang | all i know is that the wiki needs a LOT more work |
| 21:33.53 | Constitution | feel free to fix it :) |
| 21:38.05 | Constitution | JeffM: source tarballs at http://fairserve.net/const/v2_0_10RC2/ |
| 21:39.42 | JeffM | thank you sir |
| 21:39.50 | Constitution | np |
| 21:39.50 | JeffM | oh, Constitution we do need one small thing before full release |
| 21:39.58 | JeffM | the command you added needs a manpage entry |
| 21:40.34 | Constitution | okay |
| 21:48.53 | blast007 | jftsang: yeah, that's the cool part about the wiki. Anyone can help improve it. :) |
| 21:49.15 | jftsang | blast007: beats the old wiki, and certain websites which dont allow edit |
| 21:49.41 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:50.05 | jftsang | shininessshiny! -- not very helpful |
| 21:51.17 | JeffM | source files are up |
| 21:52.26 | Erroneous | mmm, shiny |
| 22:02.14 | jftsang | how do you get shiny anyway ?:P |
| 22:24.23 | CIA-24 | BZFlag: 03macsforme * r15961 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/man/bzfs.6.in: Add modcount slash command entry to the man page. |
| 22:24.26 | Winny | JeffM: do you have any idea if 2.0.10 fixes the crash that windows clients get when they fail connecting to a server? |
| 22:25.19 | Winny | err, lemme rephrase that: They crash when they fail connecting to a server that is up, but it gets stuck at "Connecting..." |
| 22:27.16 | JeffM | Winny, dunno |
| 22:32.40 | Tupone | Winny: never seen that. I fixed 2 crash on branch |
| 22:32.59 | Tupone | so maybe that is fixed too |
| 22:33.28 | Winny | Tupone: my main problem with the crash is that it totally screws up my monitors gamma, which requires a restart to fix :/ |
| 22:33.55 | Tupone | problem with the crash is just the crash :) what OS? |
| 22:34.00 | tannerld | heh |
| 22:34.37 | Tupone | SDL should fix that, so Linux & Mac should not suffer from that |
| 22:35.45 | Winny | Tupone: Windows XP SP2 |
| 22:36.15 | Tupone | yeah, removing linux & Mac, you had to use that :/ |
| 22:36.27 | Tupone | but I hope you get no more crashes now |
| 22:37.12 | Winny | hopefully :p |
| 22:37.46 | Winny | Also, does BZ have a reliable multi-thread mode? I can't find it anywhere. |
| 22:38.21 | JeffM | mode? |
| 22:38.39 | Winny | JeffM: as in, doesn't BZ normally, only use one core? |
| 22:38.46 | JeffM | yes |
| 22:38.52 | JeffM | we are single threaded |
| 22:38.56 | JeffM | for the most part |
| 22:39.03 | JeffM | some builds may spawn an audio service thread |
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| 22:46.40 | Winny | hmm |
| 22:46.40 | Winny | darn |
| 22:46.54 | Winny | just downloaded Rc2, and I still crash on "trying..." |
| 22:47.19 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:47.33 | Winny | JeffM: do you know of any way to reset the gamma? |
| 22:47.39 | Winny | without a restart :p |
| 22:48.05 | JeffM | nope |
| 22:48.14 | JeffM | what card you have? |
| 22:48.33 | Winny | EVGA 6600 |
| 22:48.40 | JeffM | odd |
| 22:49.15 | Winny | not sure if its of any concequence, but during the crash, BZ shoots up to about 120mb of mem useage |
| 22:49.24 | JeffM | got a compiler? |
| 22:49.29 | Winny | no :/ |
| 22:49.42 | JeffM | gonna be hard to figure out |
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| 22:54.39 | Winny | yay, I can see again |
| 22:59.55 | JeffM | whee. I'm a lama again! |
| 23:00.50 | JeffM | he seeemd to say |
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| 23:01.28 | Winny | oh noez! two meteorites! |
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| 23:07.59 | delusional | default -ms changed from 3 to 1? |
| 23:09.31 | Thumper_ | delusional: it's always been 1 |
| 23:09.48 | delusional | oh, your right |
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| 23:32.41 | tannerld | For those who are following, FMC '07 ends in 28 minutes |
| 23:35.15 | Winny | oh noez |
| 23:36.45 | awilcox | FMC? |
| 23:37.17 | tannerld | Freeform Map Challenge |
| 23:38.41 | blast007 | heh, I was way off... googled and got "Future of Music Coalition" |
| 23:38.54 | tannerld | blast007: heh |
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| 23:47.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 23:59.31 | tannerld | FMC: 30 seconds... |