| 00:09.16 | donny_baker | brlcad: wiki update completed... version 1.11.0 installed |
| 00:09.42 | rtfm | ~donny_baker++ |
| 00:09.57 | Winny | ~donny_baker++ |
| 00:10.13 | Winny | ~donny_baker++ |
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| 00:46.28 | azories | amm http://ip-adress.com - http://whatismyip.com - http://www.iplobster.com - ipchick.com and so on = any one can explain why the dumb utilizers dont use ipconfig ? |
| 00:46.29 | donny_baker | Happy Birthday, JeffM |
| 00:46.30 | *** part/#bzflag azories (n=azories@71.238.8.254) |
| 00:48.51 | AAA_awright | Oh, I_Died_Once said "someone tell that fool I said happy m-f'n birthday" |
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| 00:51.26 | ahs3 | sorry if I disrupt anything, does anyone know the use of the observer_bolt |
| 00:51.42 | DTRemenak | world weapons |
| 00:51.58 | ahs3 | ah, i see thank you |
| 00:52.09 | JeffM | thank you |
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| 01:37.45 | forrestv` | When I compile bzflag on an ARM system, I get: |
| 01:37.53 | forrestv` | DynamicColor.cxx: In member function 'void DynamicColor::finalize()':DynamicColor.cxx:228: warning: comparison is always false due to limited range of data type |
| 01:39.00 | blast007 | which version of bzflag? |
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| 01:39.30 | forrestv` | bzflag 2.0 svn, look at http://pastebin.com/m3f0bc893 |
| 01:41.40 | brlcad | ~donny_baker++ |
| 01:43.37 | blast007 | forrestv`: what does your line 228 show? |
| 01:43.43 | JeffM | forrestv: what's on that line? |
| 01:44.16 | blast007 | forrestv: for me, it's a comment |
| 01:45.09 | forrestv | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:45.43 | brlcad | shame, the server had 499 and 10 hours of uptime before the reboot |
| 01:46.04 | brlcad | er, 499 *days* and 10 hours |
| 01:46.27 | DTRemenak | forrestv: that's 2.1, not 2.0 |
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| 01:46.46 | brlcad | howdy trepan |
| 01:46.59 | trepan | ahoy |
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| 01:48.05 | trepan | have you been a bad brlcad, or did someone steal your @ ? |
| 01:48.44 | brlcad | trepan: oh, just freenoedy being naughty with my ident bit |
| 01:49.17 | brlcad | haven't bothered reidenting |
| 01:50.11 | JeffM | forrestv: does your ARM not have like full INT support or somethign wierd? |
| 01:50.20 | JeffM | or maybe no float suport? |
| 01:50.44 | DTRemenak | it's comparing a char, cast to an int, to 0...no reason it can't be negative |
| 01:51.10 | DTRemenak | your compiler is smoking something ;) |
| 01:51.36 | Epyon | brlcad, you're not authed? |
| 01:52.01 | brlcad | oop |
| 01:52.17 | brlcad | and you have that stupid "can't message me unless you're auth'd" thing set |
| 01:52.18 | brlcad | :P |
| 01:52.24 | brlcad | prefiero pdf, pero no me importa tanto |
| 01:52.33 | Epyon | brlcad, how can I unset it -_- |
| 01:53.11 | brlcad | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:53.17 | brlcad | er, on |
| 01:53.56 | brlcad | nope, still filtered |
| 01:54.09 | Epyon | darn -_- |
| 01:54.41 | forrestv | I think this hardware is softfloat... |
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| 01:59.16 | brlcad | ack, trepan has it too |
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| 02:00.56 | Epyon | BTW, brlcad, how many academic papers have been written around BZF up to date? From the GSoC post-mortem I assume some were written on AI :) |
| 02:05.52 | AAA_awright | Epyon: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=bzflag&hl=en&lr=&btnG=Search |
| 02:06.56 | AAA_awright | From what *I* can see, none have been focused around BZFlag, but it is a big point in a handful of papers |
| 02:06.57 | Epyon | AAA_awright, thanks that's a start :) |
| 02:14.01 | brlcad | I know of at least two serious academic papers that relate to BZFlag |
| 02:14.11 | brlcad | that were ACM-published |
| 02:14.29 | Epyon | Wow O.o |
| 02:14.35 | Epyon | What topic? |
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| 02:14.38 | brlcad | networking |
| 02:14.52 | Epyon | heh, should have guessed :) |
| 02:14.59 | Epyon | SGICOMM? |
| 02:15.04 | brlcad | yeah |
| 02:15.09 | brlcad | dead-reckoning in games |
| 02:15.18 | Epyon | I'll take a look :) |
| 02:15.49 | AAA_awright | This one? If not, it looks interesting nonetheless: http://www.cs.utah.edu/classes/cs5961/docs/aggarwal03.pdf |
| 02:16.12 | AAA_awright | Have any of the developers actually taken the advice of these papers? |
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| 02:19.31 | brlcad | aggarwal is one of them |
| 02:20.33 | brlcad | we gave them the advice for their papers, see the Acknowledgements at the end ;) |
| 02:22.53 | AAA_awright | Ah |
| 02:24.03 | brlcad | for the most part, though, none of the techniques have been implemented yet .. one of them was a GSoC submission |
| 02:24.09 | brlcad | but it didn't get a slot |
| 02:24.48 | brlcad | and to implement it outright requires a fair bit of knowledgeable effort and testing |
| 02:26.21 | brlcad | most of the technique, however is something I've had in mind for years to alleviate the lag problems, just not likely to pick up that project anytime soon |
| 02:26.35 | AAA_awright | I'll take a look at that paper later. That doesn't mean I have the C++ knowledge to implement it though.. |
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| 04:39.50 | jude- | hello all |
| 04:40.31 | blast007 | hi jude- |
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| 09:45.10 | KTL | who is awake? |
| 09:49.26 | whodaman- | me |
| 09:53.01 | whodaman- | :) |
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| 16:16.51 | Winny | spamish: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11473 ? |
| 16:17.41 | brlcad | kinda informative |
| 16:17.57 | KTL | hehe |
| 16:18.39 | brlcad | seeing their "league" stats and other services |
| 16:25.15 | CBG | It's clearly, imho, spam. :| |
| 16:25.32 | CBG | The actual post contains NOTHING but a link to a completely foreign (rival, even) website. |
| 16:25.39 | CBG | But hey... your forum. |
| 16:25.44 | Winny | espically since he only joined 2 days ago. |
| 16:25.54 | CBG | Right. |
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| 16:57.05 | Winny | Would it be possible to introduce a "nocache" and/or a "cachetime" option into map materials? |
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| 16:58.04 | Winny | that way you wouldn't need to restart a server if you wanted to, say, replace a billboard, or update a texture. |
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| 17:00.34 | Epyon | ~pw |
| 17:00.35 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, patches welcome is a common response by maintainers of Open Source products. It's roughly means "We don't have much time on our hands, so if you write that feature and send it to us we will likely roll it in. If you don't have the time to write it, we don't either. Stop asking for it." |
| 17:00.42 | Epyon | I love that one x{ |
| 17:00.50 | JeffM | you want to dynamicly change materials? |
| 17:01.37 | SpazzyMcGee | I think just prevent the client from caching certain materials, so they get re-downloaded on each server join. |
| 17:01.57 | JeffM | sounds like a hack |
| 17:02.16 | Winny | JeffM: IE: have "nocache" or "cachetime" options in materials. |
| 17:02.24 | JeffM | it should MD5 them, so if it changes. it should reload it. |
| 17:02.47 | JeffM | I was looking into leting plug-ins change materials at run time. |
| 17:02.49 | SpazzyMcGee | It's never re-downloaded any of my images. |
| 17:03.00 | JeffM | then we should fix the MD5 |
| 17:03.13 | JeffM | maybe have the server compute an MD5 for them and send it whith the map |
| 17:05.19 | awilcox | {{just now coming in on the conversation}} does BZFlag have MD5 code? |
| 17:05.28 | JeffM | ohh yeah |
| 17:05.35 | JeffM | we use it for map hashes and stuff |
| 17:05.39 | blast007 | or just have the server send the modified date of the image |
| 17:06.02 | awilcox | "md5sum" on the command line seems to take about 0.140s to calculate an MD5 hash of an entire bzw file, on a Celeron/500 doing way too many other things |
| 17:06.08 | blast007 | then we don't need to have the server download every image and compute an MD5 |
| 17:06.09 | awilcox | so I don't see it being much of a performance hit |
| 17:06.18 | blast007 | just has to send a "HEAD" http request for each file |
| 17:06.32 | JeffM | blast007: ether way, we can do something |
| 17:06.43 | JeffM | and I was prety sure that there was some code in there for that on the clients. |
| 17:06.58 | blast007 | I think if you turn on Connection Updates in the cache settings, it will automatically update the files |
| 17:09.28 | blast007 | in CacheIndex.txt, we store: <filesize> <filetime> <lastused> <md5check> |
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| 17:30.06 | Guest843eu | nabend specht ihr deutsch? |
| 17:30.18 | Guest843eu | tes |
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| 19:08.41 | Macrosoft | you know i forgot to ask, why is there going to be a code freeze? |
| 19:09.29 | ruskie | for? |
| 19:09.47 | Winny | Macrosoft: lets see |
| 19:09.58 | ruskie | a code freeze is generaly used before a release so that any bugs get fixed before the actuall release... |
| 19:09.58 | Winny | it says "2.0.10RC 1 code freeze" |
| 19:10.06 | Winny | lets think about this, we're on 2.0.8 now. |
| 19:10.17 | Winny | so, 2.0.10 would probably be a new release. |
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| 19:31.05 | Winny | </random> |
| 19:33.27 | SportChick | Winny: if you scrollback, it's not so random - brlcad and I often have conversations that span hours/days/weeks |
| 19:33.39 | Winny | heh |
| 19:33.59 | ruskie | :) |
| 19:34.55 | KTL | http://www.gconnect.be/contact.php |
| 19:35.02 | KTL | euhm sorry |
| 19:35.04 | KTL | wrong channel |
| 19:35.17 | KTL | but i do have something if you want to be busy |
| 19:35.31 | KTL | some flag thief thing cheat on badgerking |
| 19:35.34 | KTL | got screenshots |
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| 19:40.40 | KTL | ok it's fixed in a distant future version |
| 20:13.45 | JeffM | Macrosoft: so that we can concentrate on fixing the bugs, not adding new features |
| 20:13.58 | JeffM | a code freeze does not mean no code changes, but no new features. |
| 20:14.34 | JeffM | but it dosn't mater, you won't respond do a thing I say to you anyway |
| 20:14.51 | whodaman- | JeffM, lol |
| 20:15.58 | whodaman- | are you a developer JeffM ? |
| 20:16.05 | JeffM | some would say that |
| 20:16.21 | whodaman- | :) |
| 20:18.37 | Winny | sometimes he leaves developing to force others to work ;) |
| 20:18.51 | JeffM | it got me outa doing groups ;) |
| 20:18.58 | whodaman- | heh |
| 20:19.07 | JeffM | and now look, others have had to do it, and somone is making a group manager |
| 20:19.27 | JeffM | tho tim set my damned admin bit again :/ |
| 20:19.49 | Winny | :p |
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| 20:45.04 | a_meteorite | ~bz20svn |
| 20:45.06 | ibot | i heard bz20svn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/ bzflag |
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| 20:50.01 | jude- | hello all |
| 20:50.05 | ruskie | lo |
| 20:50.07 | Constitution | hi jude- |
| 20:50.28 | a_meteorite | ~hug jude- |
| 20:50.28 | ibot | ACTION hugs jude- tightly until jude- turns slightly blue |
| 20:50.44 | jude- | lol |
| 20:52.42 | a_meteorite | jude-: will bzworkbench compile on mac os x provided I have the libs? |
| 20:52.48 | jude- | it should |
| 20:53.15 | jude- | IIRC I removed the flaws in the build system that once thwarted it :) |
| 20:53.44 | jude- | Windows, however, is a different story :/ |
| 20:53.59 | ruskie | lol |
| 20:54.08 | jude- | it's possible, but difficult |
| 20:54.37 | a_meteorite | unless my PC was faster than my mac :P |
| 20:54.40 | jude- | just a heads up :) |
| 20:57.22 | jude- | (i.e. currently, I'm grading papers) |
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| 21:06.46 | ruskie | jude-, so make time :) |
| 21:07.06 | jude- | is there a way to make the day longer? |
| 21:07.22 | ruskie | no... but there is a way to make more time... get better organised... |
| 21:07.24 | ruskie | :) |
| 21:08.02 | jude- | If I already spend almost every waking moment of my life working on school-related activity already...how does re-organization help? |
| 21:08.41 | ruskie | by reducing the time you spend on school-related activity |
| 21:08.46 | jude- | lol |
| 21:09.05 | jude- | I'm not sure re-organization can help that |
| 21:09.34 | CBG | [9:54pm] ยป a_meteorite could care less about windows -- huh? I couldda swore you were a mac dude through and through |
| 21:10.11 | Constitution | CBG: "could care less" == "couldn't care less" :) |
| 21:10.12 | jude- | CBG: the quantification of his caring can always get lower |
| 21:10.27 | CBG | Constitution: right... true == false ;) |
| 21:10.57 | Constitution | well yeah duh |
| 21:11.03 | Constitution | :) |
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| 21:11.40 | a_meteorite | erm, couldn't care less |
| 21:11.46 | jude- | CBG: i.e. "if I care quantity X about Windows, then I can care X-1 about Windows" :) |
| 21:12.22 | jude- | a_meteorite: but that implies that there is a finite lower bound on how much you care about Windows :) |
| 21:12.29 | a_meteorite | :P |
| 21:12.45 | JeffM | brlcad: is there any corolation between updates to NEWS and SVN? |
| 21:12.49 | CBG | jude-: the common phrase is "I could not care less about Windows" == "I really do not care about Windows at all" |
| 21:12.52 | CBG | But more and more often I hear/see "I could care less". A lot of the time people mean "I couldn't care less" but made a mistake... |
| 21:12.56 | CBG | Hence why I brought it up... might not have been a mistake. |
| 21:13.27 | jude- | how is "I could care less about Windows" a mistake when they intended to mean that they do not care about Windows at all? |
| 21:13.42 | jude- | given my analysis on it's meaning? |
| 21:13.57 | CBG | "I could care less" implies they MUST care more than NOT AT ALL. |
| 21:14.14 | CBG | So, if they say that and they MEANT to say "I don't care at all" then, yes, they made a mistake. |
| 21:14.26 | CBG | "couldn't" is OPPOSITE to "could"... |
| 21:14.32 | jude- | "I could care less" means that "if I care a particular amoun about windows, then I could care less", which inductively means that they do not care at all |
| 21:14.42 | jude- | *amount |
| 21:14.53 | CBG | where has the "if.." come from? |
| 21:15.01 | jude- | it's the inductive hypothesis :) |
| 21:15.05 | CBG | You've added that, it was not implied in his original statement. |
| 21:15.28 | jude- | s/could/can |
| 21:15.56 | jude- | "I could care less" is the logical equivalent of "if I care a particular amount about windows, then I can care less than I do now" |
| 21:16.06 | JeffM | it is possible to care negitive |
| 21:16.12 | jude- | indeed |
| 21:16.18 | JeffM | by being a jerk and going out and pulling the caring out of other people |
| 21:16.28 | CBG | "I could care less" suggests he does care to some extent. He meant to say "I could not care less" which would suggest he does not care at all. |
| 21:16.42 | CBG | JeffM: and aint you the expert? :P |
| 21:16.57 | JeffM | better then being a gramar natzi ;) |
| 21:16.59 | jude- | "I could not care less" implies that there is a lower bound on the amount of caring he could do, which means that he does care *some* amount about Windows |
| 21:17.08 | CBG | "natzi"!?!?! |
| 21:17.33 | JeffM | you've never heard the term |
| 21:17.34 | JeffM | ? |
| 21:17.36 | CBG | jude-: wtf? you are 100% totally unequivocally wrong. |
| 21:17.46 | CBG | jude-: re-read your sentence |
| 21:18.03 | Constitution | ~spell natzi |
| 21:18.03 | jude- | CBG: you've never heard of proof by induction, have you? |
| 21:18.04 | CBG | if it is NOT POSSIBLE for him to care any less, he clearly does NOT CARE AT ALL.. |
| 21:18.04 | DTRemenak | http://www.bartleby.com/64/C003/078.html |
| 21:18.10 | JeffM | whateva |
| 21:18.31 | DTRemenak | and http://bartleby.com/68/29/1529.html |
| 21:18.32 | CBG | JeffM: I was taking the piss. You made a mistake when telling me I was a grammar nazi. ;) |
| 21:18.44 | JeffM | I'll live |
| 21:18.45 | jude- | CBG: the quantifiable set of caring has no finite bounds |
| 21:18.55 | DTRemenak | note in particular "both forms are cliches and best restricted to the lower conversational levels and most informal of writing" |
| 21:19.01 | DTRemenak | in other words, it's not worth arguing about |
| 21:19.02 | DTRemenak | so drop it |
| 21:19.24 | CBG | jude-: I fail to see how caring can be below 0. |
| 21:19.36 | CBG | jude-: #bzchat ? :) |
| 21:19.55 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-079-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:20.00 | CBG | I got nothing until my first day of Uni in 9 hours... Not gonna sleep :P |
| 21:29.02 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 21:35.02 | brlcad | JeffM: i'm not sure what you mean by that |
| 21:35.53 | brlcad | NEWS on the trunk is a line for every user-visible change -- we put that info in ChangeLog on the branch, but pretty much the same content |
| 21:50.21 | brlcad | FYI, I have a support ticket in the system with a script to fix our SVN problems, so depending on when/if/how it is handled, the repo will be "down" for upwards of a half hour |
| 21:50.59 | brlcad | maybe as little as just a couple minutes, really hard to say -- depends how long it takes to dump the repository, make the fix, then restore it |
| 21:52.50 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@c-76-30-111-23.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 21:54.25 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 22:16.32 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-079-144.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 22:24.29 | Winny | May I take a poll? |
| 22:24.45 | Winny | Is anyone in here offended by the MDG using BZBB to promote mapping competitions? |
| 22:25.12 | CBG | I am!! |
| 22:25.21 | CBG | Oh, wait.... Opposite!! |
| 22:25.26 | CBG | I am not!! |
| 22:26.10 | a_meteorite | I'm offended, but my opinion doesn't matter |
| 22:26.31 | Winny | yes it does |
| 22:26.33 | a_meteorite | s/doesn't/never/ |
| 22:26.54 | Winny | If your opinion didn't matter we wouldn't of asked in a public channel |
| 22:26.59 | a_meteorite | :P |
| 22:27.45 | Constitution | I'm not... I think it's cool to have these kinds of competitions (very stimulating to map-making in general), and the BZBB is a good way to "spread the word", IMHO |
| 22:27.45 | Winny | annnnyone elllse? |
| 22:28.23 | a_meteorite | if map-making requires stimulation by lots of post that are distracting, then there should be another way to stimulate it |
| 22:28.43 | jude- | not offended--BZWB won't be ready in time |
| 22:28.59 | jude- | (so everyone is basically stuck with a text editor for the really juicy features) |
| 22:30.05 | jude- | (i.e. winning maps will be based truly on merit and dedication) |
| 22:31.58 | brlcad | ~mdg |
| 22:32.31 | Winny | ~mdg is <reply> Suck. Or... www.mybzflag.net |
| 22:32.31 | ibot | okay, Winny |
| 22:33.06 | brlcad | er, where does the 'd' come in? |
| 22:33.17 | Constitution | Map Development Group |
| 22:33.35 | CBG | ~no MDG is <reply> MDG is the Map Development Group. See www.mybzflag.net for the latest map news, reviews, tutorials and much more from the world of BZFlag. |
| 22:33.36 | ibot | CBG: okay |
| 22:33.39 | brlcad | then why would someone be 'offended'? |
| 22:33.43 | Winny | brlcad: we never registered a poper domain :p |
| 22:33.52 | CBG | brlcad: Winny is asking if anyone is offended by the posts we make |
| 22:33.53 | Winny | proper, even. |
| 22:34.11 | CBG | i think we probably post every 4-5 days on average |
| 22:34.24 | Winny | CBG: no, by the posts we put on BZBB. |
| 22:34.44 | CBG | that's what I meant |
| 22:34.56 | a_meteorite | which is, quite frankly, annoying to see MDG plastered onto topics/posts more frequent than the BZBB is used for other purposes |
| 22:35.03 | brlcad | screw that, if it's on topic and appropriate to bzbb (which is all matters related to bzflag), then what's the big deal? |
| 22:35.29 | CBG | brlcad: that's how we feel. |
| 22:35.54 | a_meteorite | brlcad: if i had a screw that attitude, the bzbb would be in a mess |
| 22:35.55 | CBG | we got a complaint from one person (who has other motives anyway) who mentions they know "others feel the same way"..... |
| 22:36.08 | brlcad | if they have their own forum, there's probably a line to be crossed with respect to "advertising" and encouraging folks to go to the other forum |
| 22:36.17 | CBG | It's a blog, not a forum. |
| 22:36.23 | a_meteorite | CBG: why is someone else's motives relevant to your own motives? |
| 22:36.36 | CBG | Huh? |
| 22:36.46 | a_meteorite | you have motives just like they do, is MDG's motives more important to theirs? |
| 22:36.54 | a_meteorite | s/you/MDG/ |
| 22:37.02 | a_meteorite | s/to theirs/than theirs/ |
| 22:37.03 | CBG | His motives are not in-line with the general population. |
| 22:37.13 | a_meteorite | No one said BZFlag was a democracy :) |
| 22:37.19 | CBG | I wasn't talking or referring to our motives at all. |
| 22:37.37 | a_meteorite | Then how come you dispel his complaint because of his motives? |
| 22:37.55 | a_meteorite | Wouldn't that imply your motives are more important, or more "in line with the general population"? |
| 22:37.56 | Winny | uh |
| 22:38.13 | brlcad | I'm still missing some piece of the puzzle I reckon, if it's towards promoting the game in a good way, what's the issue regardless of what anyone's particular "motives" or friends are .. what are the complaints? |
| 22:38.18 | CBG | Because he is not complaining because he is concerned about what other members of the bzbb have to read. |
| 22:39.06 | brlcad | CBG: what are the complaints? |
| 22:39.32 | CBG | brlcad: we simply run a blog and a few little competition type things. we post updates periodically on the bzbb to keep people informed. some people might take part in, for example, our map contest, without checking out site everyday (and so would not know about the deadline being extended if we didn't post on the bzbb). |
| 22:40.17 | a_meteorite | CBG: if they are that into the competition, why can they not visit the MDG blog? |
| 22:40.18 | CBG | the one complaint we recieved is from someone else running a similar website. they basically say that they think we are spamming and that "a few others feel the same way" |
| 22:40.23 | brlcad | understandable, and not anything new.. so then what are the complaints? |
| 22:40.45 | Winny | brlcad: check your PM window... I explained it there. |
| 22:41.40 | brlcad | a_meteorite: they could, but generally speaking centralizing the information is better for the community at whole .. having to send people into various niche subcultures for the game is a bit counter-community (generally speaking) |
| 22:41.57 | CBG | I mentioned that this person "has other motives anyway" because they are perhaps jealous of our website, or are trying to steal our viewers... whatever. for all intents and purposes their site is a rival to ours. |
| 22:41.58 | brlcad | Winny: if this is a public issue, it should be explained publicly ;) |
| 22:42.08 | a_meteorite | brlcad: If one took that attitude, then the BZBB would be spammed to death |
| 22:42.37 | a_meteorite | There is a lot that goes on relating to BZFlag, but never posted to the BZBB. I don't think we need every small little update about a niche group on the BZBB. |
| 22:42.44 | brlcad | there is a line of abuse where too much is too much, but for a given thread or particular forums, there's certainly got to be a common ground |
| 22:42.54 | CBG | a_meteorite: because people don't want to have to visit another website every day just in case we posted something relevant to the contest, for example..? |
| 22:43.06 | a_meteorite | CBG: Why? Is bookmarking two things THAT hard? |
| 22:43.11 | brlcad | particularly if it's constantly something like "there's an update, go HERE to see what" over and over -- that's useless |
| 22:43.13 | CBG | a_meteorite: the bzbb does not get EVERY LITTLE UPDATE |
| 22:43.20 | CBG | we post on the bzbb periodically |
| 22:43.28 | a_meteorite | When you announce an extension on a contest, yeah, that's a tiny update. |
| 22:43.39 | a_meteorite | If someone is keeping up with the contest they would have gone to the MDG blog and saw it. |
| 22:43.41 | CBG | No, it's not. |
| 22:43.51 | CBG | No, actually. |
| 22:43.54 | a_meteorite | Announcing the contest exists... sure, if someone is interested enough, they would bookmark your site. |
| 22:44.44 | CBG | SOme people are interested enough to enter, not interested enough to bookmark the site. |
| 22:45.07 | a_meteorite | Then they're not interested enough to participate in a contest, don't you think? |
| 22:45.08 | brlcad | a_meteorite: spam in general is an unsolicited request .. I don't think I'd characterize announcing news/progress on a bzflag-related contest as spam |
| 22:45.08 | CBG | Entering the contest really does not require them the visit our website even ONCE, let alone bookmark it for multiple visits. |
| 22:45.37 | CBG | "Some people are interested enough to enter while not interested enough to bookmark the site." ....... "Announcing the contest exists... sure, if someone is interested enough, they would bookmark your site." lol? reread my sentence.... |
| 22:45.50 | brlcad | a_meteorite: what is your particular concern with the posts? |
| 22:46.27 | CBG | He is also jealous, it seems. |
| 22:46.29 | brlcad | CBG: take it easy, man |
| 22:46.30 | a_meteorite | brlcad: The amount of noise that small, meaningless updates present. If someone is interested enough in a general topic that the MDG exists, then they would check up with them for further updates. |
| 22:46.36 | CBG | brlcad: Oh, I am. ;) |
| 22:46.46 | brlcad | if he's got a concern, you should be listening more than talking :) |
| 22:46.47 | a_meteorite | CBG: If I was jealous, I would have done something for myself long ago. |
| 22:46.52 | *** join/#bzflag JamesDS (i=522bc8dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-17ccc8747a18de9f) |
| 22:46.54 | CBG | a_meteorite: we do not post "small updates". I said that already. |
| 22:47.02 | a_meteorite | Like launched BZFX months ago. ;) |
| 22:47.04 | CBG | haha. that is probably true |
| 22:47.09 | Winny | a_meteorite: you consider this a "small update'? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11475 |
| 22:47.30 | a_meteorite | Winny: No, but if you said there was an extension to it, I would. |
| 22:47.34 | *** part/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 22:47.38 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 22:47.38 | a_meteorite | Extension in time, specifically. |
| 22:47.38 | *** part/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 22:47.52 | brlcad | a_meteorite: so it's a matter of how small and reportedly meaningless? can you quantify just what makes it small? meaningless is certainly very much up to your the particular importance you place on it (which is noticably low for you) |
| 22:47.53 | a_meteorite | And that really isn't the right forum... |
| 22:47.58 | a_meteorite | It's directly related to maps, Winny |
| 22:48.19 | Winny | I think mappers would consider it quite important. |
| 22:48.23 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 22:48.27 | Constitution | it is also an announcement |
| 22:48.41 | *** join/#bzflag Spazzy_McGee (n=Spazzy_M@client-86-27-189-112.popl.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 22:48.44 | Constitution | and therefore appropriate to "News and Announcements", IMHO |
| 22:48.51 | a_meteorite | brlcad: Meaningless to me is defined as gaining attention to a general idea (like the MDG contest), and then posting things that could be better handled by the MDG group getting someone's attention |
| 22:49.21 | a_meteorite | Saying there is an extension in time to their contest, is IMHO, meaningless. If someone is interested enough about their contest, they would have checked on the MDG site. |
| 22:50.07 | CBG | I actually only see about 4 posts from us on the bzbb. |
| 22:50.09 | CBG | Some people are interested enough to enter, but not interested enough to bookmark our site, |
| 22:50.11 | CBG | The contest is a VERY SMALL PART of what we do. |
| 22:50.15 | a_meteorite | Getting the word out that a contest *exists*, I can see that. No problem. But posting other stuff, nah. |
| 22:50.38 | a_meteorite | CBG: I am using the contest as a base example |
| 22:50.47 | SpazzyMcGee | a_meteorite: I really can't believe you care this much. If you aren't interested in the map contest, simply don't click the topic clearly labeled 'Map Contest'. |
| 22:50.50 | brlcad | fwiw, the announcement of the contest is very much appropriate to that news & announcements forum -- though the vague enticement of money was borderline inappropriate (you're either giving cash prizes or not, that shouldn't be touted as a carrot beforehand just because it's a maybe) |
| 22:51.04 | CBG | So to visit a site daily just on the very unlikely chance that an update to the contest will be posted would be very annoying for some people. |
| 22:51.09 | Winny | brlcad: no, sending out ribbons. |
| 22:51.10 | a_meteorite | Let me clarify "posting other stuff"... I mean "posting small updates that if someone is interested in enough, they would check from the source" |
| 22:51.32 | Winny | blah, forgot to add that tot he forum post. |
| 22:51.32 | a_meteorite | SpazzyMcGee: It gets pushed to the top everytime you post more to it. Annoying. |
| 22:51.36 | brlcad | Winny: even more vague then .. I took it to mean monetary awards |
| 22:51.40 | CBG | we. don't. post. "small updates". on. bzbb. |
| 22:51.50 | Winny | fixed |
| 22:52.09 | brlcad | either way, it shouldn't say "may" .. you're either giving awards or you are not -- if you don't know now, then don't say it |
| 22:52.13 | brlcad | otherwise it's just a carrot |
| 22:52.36 | blast007 | I like carrots |
| 22:52.47 | a_meteorite | That's also the other nitpick I had, brlcad, if you're gonna start such an "important contest" with "non-meaningless updates", be sure what you're actually *doing* |
| 22:53.00 | brlcad | might as well post that joining the #bzflag channel "may" result in someone being given $1000 dollars |
| 22:53.02 | Winny | uhh, we know what we're doing? |
| 22:53.06 | brlcad | not likely, but it 'may' happen |
| 22:53.17 | a_meteorite | Otherwise it appears to be incompetency with lots of updates that are, in return, meaningless |
| 22:53.33 | CBG | a_meteorite: way to go off topic. |
| 22:53.47 | CBG | What do you have against us? |
| 22:53.53 | brlcad | a_meteorite: that's understandable but will really just reflect upon their contest, not anything else |
| 22:53.59 | a_meteorite | CBG: The topics intertwine with each other. If you show incompetency, any further updates are going to appear more meaningless. |
| 22:54.09 | SpazzyMcGee | Nobody ever knew there would be updates/changes to the rules of the contest, for all we know mappers submitted their maps and never checked back - they had no reason to. IMHO, a contest extension is a big deal in terms of rule changes. to get the message across to the widest audience we use the BZBB. We are not, AFAIK, in infringement of any forum rules, and our intents are purely to be helpful to our readers. Can we leave |
| 22:54.13 | CBG | You had NO PROBLEM AT ALL before we asked if anyone thought we posted too much. |
| 22:54.15 | a_meteorite | I have nothing against you. Like I said, if I had something against MDG, I would have crushed it with my own BZFX thing. |
| 22:54.25 | CBG | Haha. Sure you would... |
| 22:54.34 | CBG | You would have tried to, and failed, like usual. |
| 22:54.44 | a_meteorite | So far my servers have always been very successful. |
| 22:54.55 | a_meteorite | I have full confidence and faith in my work and competency. |
| 22:54.57 | Winny | MDG is not a server. |
| 22:55.01 | brlcad | CBG, turning it personal is not helping |
| 22:55.08 | a_meteorite | Winny: He is trying to compare MDG and what I have against him. |
| 22:55.11 | CBG | brlcad: I'm not the one starting that. |
| 22:55.15 | brlcad | so? |
| 22:55.19 | blast007 | CBG: but you're not helping either |
| 22:55.20 | brlcad | why perpetuate it |
| 22:55.24 | SpazzyMcGee | Can we leave it? Nothing you can possibly say will cause us to remove posts, or stop posting. End of. |
| 22:55.30 | CBG | so I am not the one TURNING it anything. |
| 22:55.43 | CBG | Can we please be allowed to post what we like, (within the usual rules of course) and get back onto the issue of whether we post too often or not...? |
| 22:55.45 | a_meteorite | SpazzyMcGee: One of your MDG members openly started a conversation whether or not your posts are annoying. |
| 22:55.53 | a_meteorite | So, yeah, I'd say this is open to discussion. |
| 22:56.14 | Winny | and thank you, your votes have been recorded. |
| 22:56.23 | brlcad | using caps also doesn't make it any more truthful, and happens to be rather annoying |
| 22:56.53 | SpazzyMcGee | OK then, we see your viewpoint. You're one person. You count as one person's view, not 10 people, not the population at large. |
| 22:57.08 | CBG | I can use bold, if you prefer. |
| 22:57.15 | a_meteorite | SpazzyMcGee: I speak for others that may not be here. |
| 22:57.20 | SpazzyMcGee | Name them. |
| 22:57.26 | CBG | a_meteorite: we asked if the quanitity of posts were annoying. |
| 22:57.27 | a_meteorite | Plus there's that one other guy who didn't like it. |
| 22:57.28 | brlcad | a_meteorite: do you have an example of what you mean by posting too small/frequently? |
| 22:57.38 | CBG | a_meteorite: haha. you sound like the person who originally complained |
| 22:57.57 | a_meteorite | brlcad: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=114948#114948 |
| 22:58.01 | brlcad | creating a new thread for each and every update would certainly be a bit over the top, there's a balance |
| 22:58.04 | a_meteorite | CBG: Whatever, I wasn't. |
| 22:58.11 | a_meteorite | I just support whoever that guy was. |
| 22:58.16 | Winny | a_meteorite: a SINGLE post in a thread... |
| 22:58.29 | a_meteorite | And, I had just noticed this, brlcad... how come MDG gets their topic as an announcement? |
| 22:58.44 | SpazzyMcGee | I'm still waiting for this list of people he's speaking for. |
| 22:58.51 | a_meteorite | Winny: so? If a contest was that important to someone, they would have checked up on the MDG blog. |
| 22:58.58 | brlcad | Winny: how about "There will be a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd prize -- hopefully in the form of ribbons sent to the winners." |
| 22:59.00 | SpazzyMcGee | a_meteorite: because I requested it to be so. |
| 22:59.01 | CBG | brlcad: you look through the forums, regularly, right? do you see too many topics from MDG? |
| 22:59.11 | Winny | brlcad: I removed that. |
| 22:59.12 | a_meteorite | SpazzyMcGee: Not everyone is at the computer at the same time, I *know* there are others who feel the same as I do. |
| 22:59.16 | a_meteorite | SpazzyMcGee: Like AAA_awright |
| 22:59.42 | CBG | brlcad: "creating a new thread for each and every update would certainly be a bit over the top, there's a balance" - we do not do this. a_meteorite has suggested repeatedly that we do and it is not true. |
| 22:59.58 | a_meteorite | A new post. Whatever. You get my point. |
| 23:00.04 | brlcad | a_meteorite: that's a particular message, and was in-line with the topic of the thread |
| 23:00.30 | a_meteorite | brlcad: The question was whether or not it was offending. |
| 23:00.45 | a_meteorite | <Winny> Is anyone in here offended by the MDG using BZBB to promote mapping competitions? |
| 23:00.48 | brlcad | Winny: I know, but it is probably worthwhile to still mention that you're trying to get ribbons made (and that that is the 'prize') |
| 23:01.10 | Winny | brlcad: I thought you wanted to mention of possible prizes? |
| 23:01.15 | a_meteorite | Off-topic may account for being offensive, but not in this particular case. |
| 23:01.24 | brlcad | Winny: then it's the entire sentence :) |
| 23:01.33 | brlcad | my point is you're still mentioning some unknown prize |
| 23:01.46 | brlcad | could be a million dollars! *gasp* |
| 23:02.04 | a_meteorite | A million dollars! Where?! *submits map* |
| 23:02.37 | brlcad | CBG: there is undoubtedly going to be disputes over what that balance is, but then that falls onto the bzbb admin shoulders |
| 23:02.51 | brlcad | if it's too much, someone will comment or remove the thread |
| 23:02.53 | SpazzyMcGee | Wha? I'm lost. |
| 23:03.00 | CBG | and nobody has |
| 23:03.20 | a_meteorite | CBG: Two people has, someone that complained to Winny, and me. |
| 23:03.34 | CBG | re-read brlcad's comments, a_meteorite. |
| 23:03.38 | brlcad | the fact that there's only one thread at the moment, one in news and one with details in the maps forum ... seems exceedingly appropriate to me at the moment |
| 23:03.39 | Winny | why would someone comlpain to you? |
| 23:03.44 | a_meteorite | CBG: "there is undoubtedly going to be disputes" |
| 23:03.53 | a_meteorite | CBG: Can you not read as well? |
| 23:03.59 | brlcad | not helpful |
| 23:04.06 | CBG | the next line too, a_meteorite |
| 23:04.22 | brlcad | can you two even talk without retorting to those sideline comments? |
| 23:04.34 | brlcad | seriously, it's absurd |
| 23:04.39 | a_meteorite | CBG: That line was not the target of my comment. |
| 23:04.40 | CBG | so clearly we are doing nothing wrong, except in the eyes of two complainers (who have other motives that differ to those of the general population of the bzflag community) and their friends who remain nameless. |
| 23:04.55 | a_meteorite | CBG: AAA_awright would agree with me, if he was here. |
| 23:05.19 | CBG | your comment was in response to my comment which was in response to "but then that falls onto the bzbb admin shoulders. if it's too much, someone will comment or remove the thread"... |
| 23:05.46 | a_meteorite | And motives relative to general population ideals is irrelevant to complaints. |
| 23:06.00 | CBG | "there is undoubtedly going to be disputes over what that balance is, but then that falls onto the bzbb admin shoulders. if it's too much, someone will comment or remove the thread"... "and nobody has (no admin has commented or removed a thread by us)" |
| 23:06.01 | brlcad | a_meteorite: back to the original question -- what exactly do you oppose of them having a thread on this contest they're having? other than your personal preference that people should go to their site for that information? |
| 23:06.27 | brlcad | you wouldn't have kept the announcement status if it were inappropriate, that's for certain |
| 23:07.10 | a_meteorite | brlcad: I am also questioning if the fact their topic being an announcement is biased. |
| 23:07.27 | brlcad | biased in what regard? |
| 23:07.28 | a_meteorite | But since their "small meaningless update" is on-topic, I guess that's OK for the admins. |
| 23:07.37 | CBG | a_meteorite: not if 99.999% of the population have NO problem and the remaining population complain because they want bad things to happen to MDG and not because they are actually concerned about the number of posts. |
| 23:08.04 | CBG | for the umpteenth time... we do not post "small meaningless update" on the bzbb. |
| 23:08.07 | brlcad | a_meteorite: the update was in their own thread, no? |
| 23:08.20 | a_meteorite | Let's say, theoretically, I started BZFX doing something that was similar to the MDG. Or whatever, maybe in the server area. I am quite sure, without a doubt, I would not be able to get it to be made an announcement, and if I did, there would be more than one admin opposing to it. |
| 23:08.31 | a_meteorite | CBG: The quotes indicate how I feel about it. |
| 23:09.00 | SpazzyMcGee | We have over 50 articles on our website. I don't see BZBB posts for each of these. |
| 23:09.01 | Winny | a_meteorite: why not? |
| 23:09.03 | CBG | and it's not up to you to decide what constitutes meaningless posts on the bzbb |
| 23:09.04 | brlcad | a_meteorite: depending on the nature of the contest/announcement, I don't quite believe that |
| 23:09.04 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 23:09.07 | Winny | I would support having it in annoucements. |
| 23:09.22 | CBG | I can't even find 5 topics on the bzbb form us. |
| 23:09.38 | CBG | a_meteorite: uh, why? |
| 23:09.42 | a_meteorite | CBG: My opinion allows me to constitute whatever I like. So does yours saying that the general population's motives are better than a few. |
| 23:09.42 | brlcad | i'm actually interested in *sponsoring* one of the map-groups for two separate map-making contests |
| 23:09.53 | SpazzyMcGee | It was originally in the announcements forum, but later moved to map discussion. |
| 23:09.56 | brlcad | since I don't actually want to run the contest itself |
| 23:10.13 | CBG | a_meteorite: you do not run the bzbb |
| 23:10.17 | a_meteorite | brlcad: Well, sponsoring runs into more issues, what if another person came along and wanted to start their own? You wouldn't want to appear biased and not sponsor them either. |
| 23:10.29 | a_meteorite | CBG: That does not mean I am not entitled to my opinion about a post. |
| 23:10.36 | brlcad | well, there's only two, and only so much money to go around |
| 23:10.40 | a_meteorite | I can think whatever I like about you, the MDG, or your posts. It's my right. |
| 23:10.42 | CBG | you can form your own opinions, but only the bzbb admins may decide if out posts are official "meaningless" or not. |
| 23:10.44 | brlcad | and it directly relates to GSoC work |
| 23:10.51 | Winny | brlcad: sponsor BZOgami, its the older, contest |
| 23:10.52 | a_meteorite | I never said they were officially meaningless. |
| 23:11.09 | CBG | a_meteorite: keep your damn opinions, I don't care. I do care if the bzbb admins have such opinions. |
| 23:11.15 | SpazzyMcGee | BZOgami no longer runs, AFAIK |
| 23:11.25 | CBG | brlcad has said they will let us know if they do. so the case is resolved as far as I am concerned. |
| 23:12.11 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite_ (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-15-124-82.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:12.23 | Think_Differentl | a_meteorite? |
| 23:12.33 | CBG | a_meteorite: if you are so concerned, feel free to find every topic we have created in the last month and paste all the links here. |
| 23:12.35 | Think_Differentl | whaz happnin? :P |
| 23:12.37 | brlcad | that all regarding peoples opinions should go without saying, everyone's allowed to voice their opinion so long as it doesn't turn into a rant or become personal, angered, pointless, etc |
| 23:12.39 | a_meteorite | CBG: If you do not care about my opinions, then do not believe them. That is your right as well. |
| 23:12.41 | a_meteorite | Sorry, my router sucks. What did I miss? |
| 23:12.46 | CBG | nothing. |
| 23:13.09 | a_meteorite | Did you get my last line brlcad about others gaining the same attention? |
| 23:13.20 | a_meteorite | s/brlcad/, brlcad,/ |
| 23:13.41 | brlcad | mmm, i don't think so |
| 23:13.50 | a_meteorite | brlcad: That doesn't discount the fact that others, maybe myself, would want to do something that requires the same attention others have gained (ie, the MDG). |
| 23:13.57 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa|AFK_ (i=deepa@abused.armchairs.be) |
| 23:14.39 | brlcad | a_meteorite: so great, you want to run a contest too .. *great*! .. is the concern that it might dilute the attention you'd receive then? |
| 23:14.39 | CBG | a_meteorite: you can do that |
| 23:15.00 | brlcad | run a better contest :) |
| 23:15.04 | a_meteorite | brlcad: No, my concern is that it would not get the same official attention, ie made into an announcement. |
| 23:15.05 | brlcad | run a different one |
| 23:15.20 | a_meteorite | I do not fear that their contest would suck compared to mine, quite frankly. |
| 23:15.25 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 23:15.31 | brlcad | a_meteorite: if you're running a contest and the contest seemed to be organized, I don't see what the problem would be for making it an announcmenet |
| 23:15.36 | a_meteorite | I'm just using a contest as an example, of course, it could also be applied to a server network. |
| 23:15.46 | brlcad | it could be applied to lots of things |
| 23:16.00 | a_meteorite | brlcad: OK, that's my only gripe since annoying, but on-topic, is OK. |
| 23:16.26 | SpazzyMcGee | meteorite: I would also think that the reason we have received the 'attention', is because we are just a bunch of guys that want to strive to give an overall pleasant, informative and fun resource for the BZFlag community, that has proven mildly popular, without hate or prejudice, and without being whiny annoying toe-rags. |
| 23:16.29 | a_meteorite | Cause I may want to run some organized things and get it made into an announcement, but I fear that one group or person may receive it over others. |
| 23:16.30 | brlcad | yeah, I mean in the spirit of the gaming community, this sort of thing is to be encouraged, no matter whom it comes from |
| 23:16.37 | Winny | Not sure if this would make the people who want to sift out MDG annocements any happier, but what if we put them in their own forum section? |
| 23:16.46 | brlcad | if it's encouraging and in good fun, great |
| 23:16.52 | a_meteorite | SpazzyMcGee: Are you implying I hate, am prejudiced, and is annoying? |
| 23:17.00 | SpazzyMcGee | I may be. |
| 23:17.06 | a_meteorite | That is not appropriate. |
| 23:17.09 | brlcad | hosting something destructive to the network (like making cheats) would certainly be frowned upon |
| 23:17.35 | a_meteorite | I have never once personally insulted you in a public situation, not even recently, SpazzyMcGee |
| 23:17.58 | Winny | a_meteorite: read what I said ^, would that made you any more/less happy? |
| 23:18.16 | spldart | [code] /drama |
| 23:18.19 | a_meteorite | Winny: That would indeed please me. |
| 23:18.30 | a_meteorite | But it's really up to the admins on how they feel about that. |
| 23:18.36 | brlcad | SpazzyMcGee: by the very nature that you say you may have implied that makes it seriously inappropriate for here, keep the insults to yourself or take it elsewhere |
| 23:18.38 | Winny | brlcad: any thoughts? |
| 23:18.54 | CBG | what is all this about "making something an announcement" ? |
| 23:18.54 | SpazzyMcGee | brlcad: okay, heat of the moment. |
| 23:18.56 | CBG | we've posted a few things in the announcement forums because they are technically "announcements". anyone can post there. |
| 23:19.27 | a_meteorite | I've always considered the announcement forums reserved for officially sponsored things. |
| 23:19.31 | a_meteorite | But that is how I viewed it. |
| 23:19.55 | brlcad | Winny: I think a thread by itself is enough for now -- if you "really" need additional threads, then it can be considered later |
| 23:20.13 | brlcad | a_meteorite: nah, any sort of community announcement |
| 23:20.25 | Winny | brlcad: k, figured it would help people who don't want to view MDG stuff sift it out. |
| 23:20.54 | brlcad | if it's official, it'll likely be marked as sticky |
| 23:20.58 | a_meteorite | brlcad: Well, considering mostly only BZFlag sponsored type things came through, I figured that it was reserved for mostly only officially sponsored stuff since anything else could easily be placed in a category. |
| 23:21.14 | brlcad | Winny: they can just as easily ignore the thread |
| 23:21.21 | brlcad | is there more than the two threads? |
| 23:21.33 | Winny | not that I said see |
| 23:21.34 | brlcad | i mean they could be viewed as redundant, but meh .. pretty minor |
| 23:21.48 | brlcad | i see one as the announcement and the other as the on-going progress |
| 23:22.28 | brlcad | a_meteorite: yeah, but probably just more the nature that we're generally the guys with stuff to announce :) |
| 23:22.39 | brlcad | if folks in the community have things to announce, that's cool too |
| 23:23.18 | brlcad | something more than "I got a score of 1000!!lol!!" of course, have to be wide-interest topics ;-) |
| 23:24.03 | Constitution | JeffM's birthday? ;) |
| 23:24.04 | brlcad | contests fall into that category, assuming they're fairly well organized |
| 23:24.20 | Winny | Constitution: that was yesterday |
| 23:25.54 | brlcad | so on that note of holding a contest, I was going to "announce" it later but now is probably as good a time as any |
| 23:25.59 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 23:26.41 | SpazzyMcGee | brlcad: what sort of contest? |
| 23:26.45 | Winny | brlcad: :o |
| 23:26.47 | brlcad | I am looking to hold three separate contests with cash prizes for each and various times, throughout the winter and probably next year |
| 23:27.01 | a_meteorite | Is code involved? |
| 23:27.23 | Constitution | a_meteorite: random draw, doubtless ;) |
| 23:27.24 | brlcad | only for one of them, and only "slightly" .. more light scripting |
| 23:27.44 | a_meteorite | Light scripting? Uh, ok. |
| 23:27.49 | Winny | brlcad: what are the 3 things? |
| 23:28.24 | brlcad | all three are related to the GSoC projects, and getting folks in the community familiarized with the new tools |
| 23:28.38 | a_meteorite | Scripting bzrobots? |
| 23:28.40 | CBG` | Topics in Announcements forum: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7044 ... http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9014 ... http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8024 - those don't seem very official. |
| 23:28.43 | CBG` | And Wait! What is THIS from about 5 months ago?!!!? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7745 |
| 23:29.02 | SpazzyMcGee | I'm guessing a map with BZWB, a bit with BZRobots and.... something else? |
| 23:29.14 | brlcad | and bzwgen |
| 23:29.26 | a_meteorite | CBG`: That's from a year and five months ago. Your point? |
| 23:29.34 | a_meteorite | It was never officially sponsored nor made into a topic. |
| 23:29.52 | SpazzyMcGee | What do you have to do with bzwgen to enter the contest. |
| 23:29.54 | SpazzyMcGee | ? |
| 23:29.54 | a_meteorite | s/topic/announcement/ |
| 23:30.13 | brlcad | all of the contests will be after the tools have basically been through a little more testing, hopefully after the 2.2 release, but maybe before |
| 23:30.30 | CBG` | a_meteorite: it is just in response to [12:19am] <a_meteorite> I've always considered the announcement forums reserved for officially sponsored things. |
| 23:30.33 | Winny | brlcad: what ARE they? |
| 23:30.49 | SpazzyMcGee | CBG`: let it go. |
| 23:30.50 | brlcad | CBG`: and we're .. past that now :) |
| 23:31.09 | CBG` | I got disconnected. |
| 23:31.12 | brlcad | way past it, old news ;) |
| 23:31.16 | brlcad | new topic |
| 23:31.43 | brlcad | Winny: basically exactly that -- one is holding a map-making contest using BZWorkbench |
| 23:31.56 | Winny | cash for making a map? :D |
| 23:32.01 | tannerld1 | heh |
| 23:32.08 | Winny | :p |
| 23:32.12 | brlcad | players make maps based on some criteria, probably have a couple categories like best non-jumping map, most creative, most detailed, etc |
| 23:32.19 | brlcad | Winny: yep |
| 23:32.28 | Winny | hm |
| 23:32.39 | Winny | I better start designing |
| 23:32.46 | brlcad | another being very similar, but instead learning/using bzwgen to generate a city -- best city wins -- maybe just as a category in that same contest |
| 23:33.53 | brlcad | bzrobots is (to me) going to be one of the most interesting.. with players creating bots that will compete against each other .. run a tournament, prizes to the top bot-makers |
| 23:34.27 | a_meteorite | I'll probably be in for that :D |
| 23:35.04 | Constitution | sweet |
| 23:35.06 | brlcad | with how bzrobots are currently written, they can be written in c++ or python for sure, but also probably any scripting language -- the syntax is exceptionally simple and easy to learn |
| 23:35.16 | brlcad | with tons of example bots to go off of |
| 23:35.34 | JeffM | but not on windows ;) |
| 23:35.41 | Winny | hehe |
| 23:35.56 | jude- | get cygwin and learn vi :) |
| 23:36.09 | brlcad | might have that sorted out by then, hopefully :) |
| 23:36.12 | JeffM | cygwin lets you load .sos? |
| 23:36.32 | brlcad | yeah, I believe it does |
| 23:36.41 | JeffM | then there ya go |
| 23:37.01 | JeffM | python interface would be the easiest to get working on windows, if you built it into the client, and didn't export it like a plug-in |
| 23:37.24 | daxxar | Hi guys |
| 23:37.31 | daxxar | Sorry I'm not here these days :S |
| 23:37.44 | a_meteorite | we're all busy, don't worry about it daxxar ;) |
| 23:37.49 | daxxar | School is taking a humongous chunk of my time thus far - this semester. |
| 23:37.51 | brlcad | prize monies are still TBD, but "enough" to get folks interested hopefully :) probably in the range of $20-$200 depending on the contest and effort |
| 23:38.12 | brlcad | speak of the daxxar |
| 23:38.19 | daxxar | ;-) |
| 23:38.39 | daxxar | I'd have noticed earlier if anyone had mentioned my nick :p |
| 23:38.41 | jude- | hello daxxar |
| 23:39.03 | daxxar | Hey jude! |
| 23:39.28 | jude- | how are classes going? |
| 23:40.28 | daxxar | Got two really challenging ones, one challenging, one okay and one relatively easy (at least half of it) |
| 23:40.29 | tannerld1 | where's ol' Epyon gone off to? school? |
| 23:40.51 | brlcad | if anyone is interested in *running* the contests (which requires writing up rules, determining award categories, formulating timelines, making announcements, and collaborating with judges) .. let me know |
| 23:41.09 | Winny | brlcad: the MDG could certainly help. |
| 23:41.10 | brlcad | otherwise it'll be fairly community-driven |
| 23:41.19 | daxxar | How's that writeup coming along, brlcad? |
| 23:41.22 | Winny | seeing as what you are saying is very map-oriented. |
| 23:41.34 | brlcad | daxxar: which one? the postmortem? |
| 23:41.37 | daxxar | Aye |
| 23:41.39 | brlcad | that was finished and delivered :) |
| 23:41.41 | daxxar | (are there others?) |
| 23:41.46 | daxxar | Oh, where can I peruse it? |
| 23:42.12 | brlcad | not yet posted, in some talks with a publisher to see if they're interested |
| 23:42.18 | daxxar | Okay. :-) |
| 23:42.52 | jude- | is this the GSoC write-up? |
| 23:43.54 | jude- | publisher? which publisher? |
| 23:44.20 | jude- | will the write-up be published and available in print? |
| 23:45.09 | tannerld1 | squint |
| 23:46.10 | jude- | I knew brlcad was working on a write-up about the GSoC projects, but I thought that students weren't allowed to read it because it was intended for Google...until brlcad mentioned something about publishing it |
| 23:46.23 | jude- | now I'm curious :) |
| 23:46.49 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 23:47.11 | daxxar | I thought the write-up was always planned for all participants in gsoc, both mentors, admins, students and google. |
| 23:47.14 | daxxar | :-) |
| 23:48.04 | jude- | brlcad had asked me before if I wanted to see it, but I declined because I thought only Google and the mentors were allowed to read it (i.e. I thought it was our final review)... |
| 23:48.29 | jude- | but the fact that he's trying to publish it changes that perception :) |
| 23:48.35 | jude- | now I'm curious ;) |
| 23:49.26 | jude- | is there a place online to see it? |
| 23:50.11 | Epyon | tannerld1, I'm still here ;] |
| 23:50.39 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-141-158-104-45.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:51.59 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 23:53.11 | tannerld1 | Epyon: ah :) |
| 23:54.44 | Epyon | Currently working on my MSc paper on BZWGen :) |
| 23:55.58 | tannerld1 | fun |