| 00:00.04 | Epyon | TD-Linux, not exactly -- what I'm doing now is removing code :P |
| 00:00.09 | TD-Linux | hmm. |
| 00:00.17 | Epyon | And moving it into the grammar, so there's just one source. |
| 00:00.25 | Epyon | I'm almost finished :) |
| 00:00.34 | TD-Linux | uvmapping shouldn't be too hard to add, should it? |
| 00:00.43 | Epyon | Nope, but leave that to me :) |
| 00:01.03 | TD-Linux | some of the textures might need to be fixed :/ |
| 00:01.17 | Epyon | Don't worry, it'll be ok ;] |
| 00:01.20 | TD-Linux | either adjust the inset windows, adjust the texture, or stretch part of it |
| 00:01.27 | TD-Linux | are the rules going to set uvmaps? |
| 00:01.42 | Epyon | Currently I'm just porting the code. I'll wory about the textures tommorow. |
| 00:01.46 | Epyon | In a way, yes. |
| 00:02.12 | Epyon | But I'll need snap grids before I tackle UV |
| 00:02.21 | TD-Linux | ok |
| 00:02.25 | TD-Linux | snap grids? |
| 00:02.54 | Epyon | Yep, those will be "guards" that'll keep things like "half window is on the corner" from happening :) |
| 00:05.03 | TD-Linux | you could just slightly stretch the texture to fix that, too |
| 00:05.20 | TD-Linux | that would still kinda involve 'snapping' |
| 00:05.30 | Epyon | TD-Linux, but that wont help with insetting and other geometric problems. |
| 00:05.39 | TD-Linux | when you get to UV coords, you round them |
| 00:05.47 | TD-Linux | oh, yeah |
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| 00:11.15 | Epyon | Yesssss! |
| 00:24.46 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15321 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/BuildZone.h rules/build.set src/BuildZone.cxx): FINALLY! Removed ALL obsolete BuildZone code, now *all* the buildings are generated by the grammar rule start. |
| 00:26.51 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15322 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/build.set: Generate inset windows only if detail level > 2 (-l command line option, default = 3) |
| 00:41.05 | TD-Linux | Yessssssssss! |
| 00:41.39 | TD-Linux | Epyon, ./inc/Expression.h:142: warning: passing ‘float’ for argument 1 to ‘int abs(int)’ |
| 00:43.01 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15323 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/Expression.h: abs -> fabs |
| 00:43.56 | Epyon | Commits speak louder than words :D |
| 00:44.52 | Winny | LALALAL |
| 00:44.56 | Winny | I CAN"T HEAR YOU |
| 00:45.18 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15324 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/build.set: Return of the red roofs :) |
| 01:04.35 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=ian@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
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| 01:12.59 | Epyon | Ilol |
| 01:13.45 | Epyon | I was playing a game on Const's server 1-1, I have wings and bash the guy again and again -- comment "Feels like running from spiderman" :P |
| 01:14.53 | blast007 | he |
| 01:14.55 | blast007 | heh* |
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| 01:30.23 | Epyon | blog updated ^_^ |
| 01:35.39 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@71-223-45-30.phnx.qwest.net) |
| 01:36.40 | Epyon | Constitution, seems as the server doesn't regenerate? |
| 01:39.48 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=ian@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 01:40.26 | Constitution | Epyon: I'll look into it |
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| 02:51.21 | Winny | anyone else think this is just tomer? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11352 |
| 02:51.28 | Winny | and not "his brother"? |
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| 02:52.04 | a_temp_dist | I was just in game and told tomer1234 to change his name cause it's too close to his bother's |
| 02:52.40 | The_Vaxorcist | bother? Is that a freudian slip? |
| 02:53.24 | a_temp_dist | it is - I like cigars |
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| 03:13.57 | brlcad | ~Epyon++ |
| 03:18.09 | blast007 | a_temp_dist: I already told him that on the forum ;) |
| 03:18.36 | a_temp_dist | yes, I don't know why he took action when I told him |
| 03:19.47 | blast007 | maybe he hasn't read the forum again yet |
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| 05:22.41 | daxxar | ~jude-++ |
| 05:22.42 | daxxar | ~Epyon++ |
| 05:22.44 | daxxar | ~L4m3r++ |
| 05:23.06 | L4m3r | ~daxxar++ |
| 05:23.10 | Epyon | :D |
| 05:23.12 | daxxar | Mornin' fellas. ;) |
| 05:23.17 | Epyon | daxxar, you alive? :D |
| 05:23.24 | Epyon | daxxar, so late? |
| 05:23.59 | daxxar | So early |
| 05:24.05 | daxxar | School in 40 minutes-ish |
| 05:24.32 | Epyon | lol, I'm in the same timezone, but I'm going to sleep in an hour or so :P |
| 05:25.07 | L4m3r | man, school so early... :P |
| 05:25.18 | L4m3r | I'm off for another month! |
| 05:25.34 | L4m3r | well, actually, I'm probably off permanently, but I digress |
| 05:27.27 | daxxar | Hehe |
| 05:27.33 | daxxar | I started on monday |
| 05:27.36 | daxxar | No mercy |
| 05:27.36 | daxxar | :P |
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| 05:44.00 | daxxar | I can't wait till school settles down a bit. |
| 05:44.10 | daxxar | I want to finish the final bit to make the API usable. |
| 05:44.52 | brlcad | daxxar: do you think you could conjure up some sort of graphic of bzrobots in action? |
| 05:45.17 | AAA_awright | ~daxxar++ |
| 05:45.18 | brlcad | even a snippet of bot code perhaps, or a screenshot of map with a slew of bots or something |
| 05:45.47 | brlcad | anything really, just something "visual" |
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| 05:46.11 | brlcad | an architecture diagram, api diagram, whatever |
| 05:46.54 | daxxar | brlcad: Uhm, sure. By when? |
| 05:47.42 | brlcad | probably friday? |
| 05:47.54 | brlcad | plus-minus a few days |
| 05:48.37 | daxxar | Should be np, but can you ping me thursday evening-night-ish? |
| 05:48.46 | brlcad | i'm putting together a paper and would like to include something from the participants .. i think yours is the only I don't have any sort of imagery for |
| 05:54.19 | daxxar | Anyway |
| 05:54.25 | daxxar | Head to school. Catch ya later. :) |
| 05:54.29 | L4m3r | ~factinfo make |
| 05:54.29 | ibot | L4m3r: there's no such factoid as make |
| 05:55.01 | L4m3r | ibot: make is <reply> make: *** No rule to make target `$1'. Stop. |
| 05:55.01 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `is <reply> make: *** No rule to make target `$1'. Stop.'. Stop. |
| 05:55.13 | L4m3r | er |
| 05:55.15 | L4m3r | oops |
| 05:55.36 | L4m3r | ~forget make is <reply> make: *** No rule to make target `$1 |
| 05:55.36 | ibot | i didn't have anything called 'make is <reply> make: *** no rule to make target `$1' to forget, L4m3r |
| 05:58.32 | L4m3r | >make biscuits |
| 05:58.38 | L4m3r | er... |
| 05:58.43 | L4m3r | ~make biscuits |
| 05:58.43 | ibot | make: *** No rule to make target `biscuits'. Stop. |
| 06:14.27 | blast007 | Epyon: are you registered on the BZFlag forum? |
| 06:15.44 | blast007 | ah, yup, nvm |
| 06:21.52 | Epyon | blast007 as Epyon :) |
| 06:21.59 | blast007 | yup, saw it |
| 06:22.00 | Epyon | blast007, why do you ask? |
| 06:22.11 | blast007 | setting up a test server for BZWGen |
| 06:22.14 | Constitution | ~factinfo cmd: make (.*?) |
| 06:22.14 | ibot | cmd: make (.*?) -- last modified at Tue Jan 21 04:09:46 2003 by kergoth!~kergoth@dsl081-228-056.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net; it has been requested 167 times, last by L4m3r, 23m 31s ago. |
| 06:22.30 | L4m3r | yeah... |
| 06:22.41 | L4m3r | figured that out later :P |
| 06:22.50 | Constitution | heh |
| 06:24.42 | Epyon | Jesus saves, the rest of you take 6d10 damage. |
| 06:25.40 | blast007 | Epyon: so the map file is generated based on a set of rules, basically? |
| 06:26.30 | Epyon | The layout is the algo, the buildings are from the rules. |
| 06:26.58 | blast007 | k |
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| 06:55.45 | Epyon | Why is the beer always gone? |
| 06:56.01 | Epyon | Oh, that's why... |
| 06:56.07 | ruskie | lol |
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| 07:54.24 | Macrosoft | this client sucks |
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| 08:11.31 | brlcad | oof, this is gonna take a lot more to finish up |
| 08:11.37 | brlcad | but coming together nicely so far |
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| 08:23.02 | Constitution | I think I really got Epyon peeved at me today... http://fairserve.net/const/epyon_mad.png ;D |
| 08:44.16 | brlcad | Epyon: if you have a fancy screenshot that you'd like to showcase, please send it my way |
| 09:26.48 | brlcad | I have one i'm using now that is working 'okay', but if there's one in particular that you'd like for me to use, e-mail it to me or post a url |
| 09:28.19 | L4m3r | as long as it's recent, I'd say... pretty much every screenie I've seen in the last three days or so has been really impressive. :) |
| 10:15.06 | CBG | L4m3r: how catastrophic was your gsoc failure, on a scale of 1 to 10? |
| 11:45.58 | daxxar | Was L4m3r a GSoC failure? o.0 |
| 11:46.44 | CBG | he said so.. :P |
| 12:14.51 | donny_baker | daxxar, jude-, epyon, l4m3r: Could you add pages to the wiki for your projects |
| 12:15.20 | donny_baker | you guys are currently the experts on them, and it would be a starting point for others to take off from |
| 12:15.28 | donny_baker | as they get familiar with your work |
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| 14:01.50 | daxxar | I should already have one, donny_baker |
| 14:02.29 | daxxar | It needs to be updated |
| 14:02.50 | daxxar | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZRobots/About |
| 14:03.27 | donny_baker | daxxar: k, i did a search on robots and got nothing, so I assumed it wasn't there :) |
| 14:03.56 | daxxar | :-) |
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| 14:40.14 | Macrosoft | Epyon: are the bots going to have a difficulty setting? |
| 14:41.19 | Macrosoft | oh wait, wrong person |
| 14:41.46 | Macrosoft | daxxar: are bots going to have a difficulty setting? |
| 15:06.27 | daxxar | Hum |
| 15:23.20 | daxxar | brlcad: Where should I send it when it's donE? |
| 15:23.46 | daxxar | Epyon: You asleep? |
| 15:28.37 | daxxar | Hmm |
| 15:28.45 | daxxar | ./bzrobots -team rogue segfaults :o |
| 15:29.54 | daxxar | Hmm. ./bzrobots without -team green segfaults. What the. |
| 15:29.57 | *** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper) |
| 15:30.06 | daxxar | And the bt is rubbish |
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| 15:35.03 | daxxar | Any way to look up / down as a observer? |
| 15:35.10 | daxxar | Or any away to change to a better 'viewpoint' |
| 15:36.23 | Chestal | when in Roaming ode, you can use arrow keys + shift/ctrl/etc. |
| 15:41.34 | daxxar | How do you change mode |
| 15:42.18 | Dessy | F8 i think |
| 15:42.28 | Winny | and f6/f7 for chasnging people |
| 15:42.39 | Dessy | goog teamwork winny :P |
| 15:42.49 | Dessy | *good |
| 15:42.50 | Winny | meh |
| 15:49.31 | daxxar | Player anonymouscoward [3] removed at 2007-08-22 17:48:58: /rejected |
| 15:50.01 | daxxar | What causes that? |
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| 15:56.10 | daxxar | Aha. |
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| 16:10.46 | daxxar | http://gsoc.daxxar.com/ |
| 16:10.48 | daxxar | lil' screenie |
| 16:10.55 | daxxar | brlcad: http://gsoc.daxxar.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/bzrobots.png Is that OK? |
| 16:11.57 | daxxar | Or rather, lil' screenie: http://gsoc.daxxar.com/2007/08/22/post-gsoc-update/ |
| 16:12.44 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03daxxar * r15325 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzrobots/RandomRobot.py: new moronic bot. turns and moves randomly, shoots constantly. (time to add some way of finding opponents, eh?;) |
| 16:13.29 | JeffM | heh |
| 16:13.42 | JeffM | now that's all based on a bot client right? |
| 16:13.53 | daxxar | JeffM: What's all based? |
| 16:14.03 | JeffM | bzrobots |
| 16:14.12 | JeffM | and your extensions to it |
| 16:14.17 | daxxar | The screenshot? |
| 16:14.22 | JeffM | your project |
| 16:14.26 | daxxar | Uhm, yes |
| 16:14.36 | JeffM | I haven't paid much attention to yours |
| 16:14.42 | JeffM | one instance of the headless bot client per bot? |
| 16:14.42 | daxxar | Np. :-) |
| 16:14.45 | daxxar | Yep |
| 16:14.51 | JeffM | fun |
| 16:15.02 | daxxar | I removed multiple bots per headless client, because it got a bit messy. |
| 16:15.08 | JeffM | yeah I can imagine |
| 16:15.46 | JeffM | recently I hooked up the API functions for the API to be able to get info on the world, so that got me thinking of server side bots some more. |
| 16:15.54 | daxxar | It's mostly working now |
| 16:15.58 | JeffM | cool |
| 16:15.59 | daxxar | Except the missing API stuff |
| 16:16.06 | daxxar | (like, 'getOpponents' or something ;) |
| 16:16.39 | JeffM | getAholes(); getBuds(); |
| 16:17.01 | daxxar | Hehe, yes. ;-) |
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| 16:21.27 | JeffM | the question I have, is did ya all have fun doing your projects? was it more fun then you think it woudl have been if you were working on something more booring, like a word processor? |
| 16:23.12 | JeffM | word processeors don't have guided missiles |
| 16:23.50 | daxxar | I applied for two projects, both of which were game related. |
| 16:23.59 | Macrosoft | does the autopilot(roger) know not to shoot at players that have gone [nr] |
| 16:24.01 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 16:24.14 | daxxar | I believe a lot of my reason for doing so was that I envisioned it to be a lot of fun. |
| 16:24.27 | daxxar | (the specific projects really sparked interest in me) |
| 16:24.30 | JeffM | was it fun for you? |
| 16:24.34 | daxxar | I had a lot of fun, yes. :-) |
| 16:24.40 | daxxar | I'm really content with what I did. =) |
| 16:24.41 | JeffM | good |
| 16:25.08 | JeffM | and for us, if somone says "how do I make a bot" we actualy have something to give them :) |
| 16:25.10 | daxxar | It would've been a lot harder to do work if it hadn't been fun, because I would solely have to rely on self-discipline. :) |
| 16:25.29 | daxxar | (due to the loose constraints on doing this kind of work) |
| 16:26.21 | daxxar | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:28.25 | daxxar | Hm, it actually induces some noise, the original bzrobots |
| 16:34.34 | orthox | JeffM: excel did have a flight simulator tho |
| 16:34.41 | JeffM | heh |
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| 17:24.42 | Epyon | Morning all ^_^ |
| 17:26.17 | TD-Linux | w00t |
| 17:26.27 | TD-Linux | bah, not svn updates since yesterday |
| 17:26.34 | TD-Linux | we expect you to work around the clock, you know |
| 17:26.45 | brlcad | daxxar: that's perfect, thanks |
| 17:27.24 | Epyon | TD-Linux, I'm trying ;( |
| 17:28.20 | TD-Linux | hehe |
| 17:28.32 | TD-Linux | I wonder if I can come up with another little pointless patch |
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| 17:39.42 | JeffM | how about coming up with a pointed patch? ;) |
| 17:39.55 | JeffM | you help him out enough and you just may get commit access |
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| 17:43.55 | TD-Linux | hmm |
| 17:46.56 | delusional_ | pointy patches are worth more |
| 17:47.22 | JeffM | 4x if you get the quad damage too |
| 17:48.38 | JeffM | so we just add damage :) |
| 17:48.38 | Macrosoft | Epyon: there is, its called SW :p |
| 17:48.57 | delusional_ | brownie points |
| 17:50.34 | Epyon | BTW, how does that floor speedup thing work that I saw on LaserMania map? |
| 17:50.50 | Macrosoft | Epyon: physics driver |
| 17:51.01 | Macrosoft | linear 0 50 0 |
| 17:51.04 | Epyon | Hard to implement? |
| 17:51.07 | Macrosoft | no |
| 17:52.01 | Macrosoft | Epyon: i made a launch ramp, it accelerates you, then shoots you into the air at the end |
| 17:52.38 | Epyon | Macrosoft FUN :D |
| 17:52.56 | JeffM | Epyon, think of them as conveyor belts |
| 17:53.07 | Macrosoft | the wiki has more info on it |
| 17:53.59 | Macrosoft | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Physics |
| 18:01.42 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 18:05.05 | brlcad | Epyon: you get my message from many hours ago? |
| 18:05.54 | delusional_ | is there a "magic material name" for teleporter border? BorderMaterial? |
| 18:08.45 | *** join/#bzflag krilli (n=krilli@85-218-20-74.dclient.lsne.ch) |
| 18:15.22 | *** join/#bzflag krilli (n=krilli@85-218-20-74.dclient.lsne.ch) |
| 18:19.31 | Epyon | brlcad, no :( Should I check the logs? |
| 18:20.53 | brlcad | don't have to -- i'm putting together a report |
| 18:21.23 | brlcad | if there's a particular screenshot or visual you'd like me to include, send it on over |
| 18:21.53 | brlcad | i'm using some of the other screenshots you've posted to date, but if you have one in particular, I can give it a try |
| 18:23.35 | brlcad | Epyon: that is, if you have a fancy screenshot that you'd like to showcase, please send it my way ;) |
| 18:24.05 | Epyon | Here are some of the better ones : http://bzflag.chaosforge.org/screenshots/ |
| 18:24.23 | Epyon | As for one particular, no idea, each day brings better screenies :) |
| 18:24.31 | Epyon | Where do you want to showcase them? |
| 18:24.53 | brlcad | i'm creating a port-mortem report |
| 18:25.09 | Epyon | port? :P |
| 18:25.17 | brlcad | er, post-mortem |
| 18:28.52 | Epyon | brlcad, the results of the GSoC projects? :) |
| 18:29.08 | brlcad | everything |
| 18:29.23 | Thumper_ | Epyon: I like the last one :) |
| 18:29.25 | brlcad | applications, lessons learned, showcase of your tasks/results |
| 18:29.49 | Epyon | Thumper_, work on expand algo xP |
| 18:30.10 | Epyon | I have quite a few more of this :) |
| 18:30.16 | Epyon | brlcad thanks :) |
| 18:30.21 | TD-Linux | the last one looks like my brain |
| 18:30.22 | brlcad | welp, if you don't have a preference, I'll just randomly pick one :P |
| 18:30.25 | TD-Linux | 'cuz I never write that stuff down |
| 18:31.01 | Epyon | I know I didn't managed to complete all tasks that I wanted, or even half of them, but still I don't think BZWgen was a failure. |
| 18:31.39 | L4m3r | I'm just waiting to see what sorts of games come out of it |
| 18:32.08 | Epyon | L4m3r, I'm working on variety now :) |
| 18:32.19 | L4m3r | an urban/street type map is not typical for bzflag... the narrow streets affect gameplay |
| 18:32.35 | L4m3r | though, it'd make a nice lasertag map :P |
| 18:32.58 | L4m3r | or any other no-radar cat-and-mouse type game |
| 18:33.23 | L4m3r | perhaps |
| 18:33.47 | L4m3r | or stick a small boucy area at the edge of the road, to hop tanks onto sidewalks |
| 18:33.48 | Epyon | L4m3r, yesterday we played with Constitution CTF -- running away with the flag to your base is extremely fun :D |
| 18:34.13 | bryjen | would make the building "doors" easier to get to |
| 18:34.31 | Epyon | The chase is where the buildings and layout realy start to get exciting |
| 18:34.52 | L4m3r | is there a layout param that shortens street length? |
| 18:35.06 | L4m3r | i.e. lots of T intersections as opposed to + ones |
| 18:35.06 | Epyon | what do you mean "shortens"? |
| 18:35.32 | L4m3r | most streets run 2~4 blocks instead of the whole way through |
| 18:35.57 | Epyon | Yep, you can reduce the amount of fulslice subdivisions |
| 18:36.06 | L4m3r | :) |
| 18:36.14 | Epyon | And increase the amount of subdivisions |
| 18:36.38 | L4m3r | making the layout more complex would be cool without radar |
| 18:36.47 | L4m3r | instead of big, long streets that you can see down :P |
| 18:37.19 | brlcad | does someone have it up and running that could take a shot? |
| 18:37.36 | L4m3r | there's one on mybzflag.net, dunno if it's any good |
| 18:37.53 | brlcad | yeah, I got that one .. it's "okay" |
| 18:39.10 | L4m3r | I could get you a screenie of inane #bzchat chatter from my BZFlag console, but that'd be a waste of a screenshot :P |
| 18:39.41 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@72.11.78.6) |
| 18:39.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:39.46 | brlcad | better than nothing |
| 18:40.18 | brlcad | akin to daxxar's screenshot that actually shows some bot code along with the bots, worked out very well |
| 18:43.41 | L4m3r | do me a favor, brlcad, and join #bzchat so it'll show in the console :P |
| 18:44.21 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 18:44.50 | brlcad | Epyon: give me an academic title |
| 18:46.03 | brlcad | or i'll just use the one i came up with |
| 18:46.06 | Epyon | Real world application of academic city generation papers? :P |
| 18:46.37 | brlcad | bleh, my title is better :) |
| 18:46.43 | L4m3r | heh, weird, join messages aren't working |
| 18:46.45 | Epyon | Real-world application of procedural geometry modelling? |
| 18:46.50 | L4m3r | parts are, though |
| 18:46.57 | Epyon | brlcad, what's yours? :D |
| 18:47.06 | brlcad | you'll see |
| 18:47.20 | brlcad | so did you end up using l-systems or is it purely procedural? |
| 18:47.25 | brlcad | or some hybrid |
| 18:48.46 | Epyon | brlcad, I ended up doing something original, but strongly based on a grammar. The layout and subdivision is generated by an algorithm, but all geometry is generated by a grammar. |
| 18:49.00 | Epyon | Checkout bzwgen and look into the rules folder :P |
| 18:49.17 | Epyon | (I cleaned it up a lot recently) |
| 18:49.30 | brlcad | too busy to go hunting around right now |
| 18:49.39 | Epyon | There's also a uptodate description of the language in the doc folder |
| 18:49.44 | brlcad | just looking for the highlights |
| 18:54.19 | L4m3r | http://l4m3r.bzflag.org/gsoc/bzfi0004.png |
| 18:54.28 | L4m3r | crop out whatever you want (big one) |
| 18:56.33 | tannerld | (yay I'm in a GSoC screenshot) |
| 19:00.18 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@209-203-68-2.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 19:00.18 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 19:03.36 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 19:07.52 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 19:14.20 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15326 10/trunk/bzwgen/src/bzwgen.cxx: Added version to output map file. Revision bumped (milestone 'all geometry in .set files' reached) |
| 19:14.45 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15327 10/trunk/bzwgen/doc/grammar.txt: Manual updated. |
| 19:15.10 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15328 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/ (7 files): Version updated. |
| 19:15.40 | donny_baker | ~Epyon++ |
| 19:17.22 | tannerld | Epyon: the manual is alive? |
| 19:17.43 | Epyon | tannerld, the grammar manual if fully up to date :) |
| 19:17.50 | tannerld | Epyon: yay |
| 19:17.53 | tannerld | ~Epyon++ |
| 19:18.11 | Epyon | Although it lacks operation descriptions yet :/ |
| 19:18.52 | tannerld | :o |
| 19:24.45 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15329 10/trunk/bzwgen/doc/grammar.txt: Documentation for the geometric operations. |
| 19:41.07 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15330 10/trunk/bzwgen/doc/grammar.txt: Documentation for the control operations. |
| 19:44.19 | TD-Linux | YAY! |
| 19:44.40 | TD-Linux | ~pamper Epyon |
| 19:44.40 | ibot | ACTION pulls out all the stops, and arranges a 2-hour massage, manicure, pedicure, facial and a full day at the spa for Epyon. In addition, food is catered from the local 5-star restaurants, prepared especially for Epyon. An army of people are available to do anything Epyon might wish for! |
| 19:44.55 | TD-Linux | err |
| 19:44.55 | Epyon | xP |
| 19:45.02 | TD-Linux | delay that until you redo materials :P |
| 19:45.07 | Epyon | xD |
| 19:53.15 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-203.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:53.56 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-203.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:54.16 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15331 10/trunk/bzwgen/doc/grammar.txt: Documentation for the generative operations. All current operations documented -- manual is 'complete'. |
| 19:57.49 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15332 10/trunk/bzwgen/TODO: TODO item done. |
| 19:58.28 | Epyon | BTW, anyone here good with vector math? |
| 19:58.44 | JeffM | in what way? |
| 19:59.21 | Epyon | I want to check wether a given point is "right" or "left" of a given vector :) |
| 19:59.41 | Epyon | relative to the x/y plane. |
| 19:59.42 | JeffM | dot product |
| 19:59.51 | Epyon | Of what? |
| 19:59.59 | JeffM | compute a normal |
| 20:00.14 | JeffM | then dot the normal, and a vector from a point on the line to the point. |
| 20:00.38 | JeffM | actualy you may not even need the normal if your 2d |
| 20:00.43 | Epyon | I have points A,B and want to see if C is left or right of the line AB |
| 20:00.52 | Epyon | I'm in 3D |
| 20:01.18 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:01.24 | JeffM | dot (a->b,a->c) will return to you the cosine of the angle between them |
| 20:01.44 | Epyon | Yeah, but that one isn't signed isn't it? |
| 20:02.00 | JeffM | shuld be signed |
| 20:02.04 | Epyon | So it will be the same if it's left or right... |
| 20:02.11 | JeffM | shoudl return between +- pi |
| 20:02.45 | Epyon | kk |
| 20:02.46 | brlcad | ev'rbody like pie |
| 20:02.46 | JeffM | let me see if I can find my code |
| 20:02.49 | Epyon | I'll try |
| 20:02.50 | JeffM | it's been a while since I've done it |
| 20:03.12 | JeffM | it's basicly the same test for point in polygon |
| 20:05.22 | JeffM | if you need a normal, you can get that by taking the cross product of one of the axes and the vector IIRC |
| 20:10.41 | JeffM | bahh, I don't have the code for 'thon here. let me make a quick test wtih GPlib |
| 20:15.07 | Epyon | Hmm seems as it might work. I need a non-convex poly to test it though o.O |
| 20:15.24 | JeffM | test should be the same for any vector |
| 20:15.56 | JeffM | the prolblem with concave polygons is you can't assume if it's on the same side of all of them, it's inside. |
| 20:16.22 | *** part/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=temporal@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 20:17.37 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15333 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (TODO inc/globals.h src/Mesh.cxx): Expand for non-convex polygons should work now. Needs testing though. |
| 20:18.09 | Epyon | I need a polygonisation algo for the nonconvex faces anyway :/ |
| 20:18.36 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-203.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:19.23 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-203.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:24.16 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=blane@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.02 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=blane@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 20:26.43 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=blane@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 20:29.28 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@client-82-3-238-72.glfd.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 20:31.44 | Macrosoft | yes! finally! DVI support |
| 20:37.20 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15334 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/Mesh.h src/Mesh.cxx): textureFaceFull added to Mesh. Texturing work has started o.O |
| 20:38.11 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=blane@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 20:42.10 | *** join/#bzflag krilli (n=krilli@85-218-20-74.dclient.lsne.ch) |
| 20:43.03 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15335 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (5 files in 4 dirs): doorr.png and doorw.png added to media, to the code, and to the ruleset |
| 20:44.44 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15336 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/common.set: Duh, forgot common.set |
| 20:50.33 | JeffM | Epyon, you do need the normal |
| 20:50.42 | JeffM | I have an example if you want it |
| 20:50.44 | Epyon | JeffM, ? |
| 20:51.26 | JeffM | you take the dot of the normal to the vector and the vector from the sp to the point, if it's positive, it's on the same side as the normal |
| 20:51.31 | JeffM | if it's negitive, it's on the other side |
| 20:52.17 | Epyon | You mean I should normalize both vectors before doing the dot product? |
| 20:52.26 | JeffM | well that too |
| 20:52.39 | JeffM | AND you need to use the normal vector for the edge you want to test |
| 20:52.43 | JeffM | not the actual edge |
| 20:53.08 | Epyon | What is a normal vector for the edge o.O |
| 20:53.19 | JeffM | a vector normal to it |
| 20:53.28 | JeffM | you care about the XY plane right? |
| 20:53.55 | JeffM | or heck, cross product the vector, and the sp->point |
| 20:53.59 | Epyon | JeffM, actually this is going to work anyway in this situation :? |
| 20:54.13 | JeffM | that will give you a vector normal to whatever plane that is in |
| 20:54.15 | JeffM | if you say so |
| 20:54.27 | Epyon | I'll come back to it once I have some non-convex faces to test it on. |
| 20:55.08 | *** join/#bzflag Jwir3 (n=Jwir3@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 20:56.19 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15337 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/build.set: Added the door materials. Texturing is bad, I'll fix it |
| 21:00.19 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-070-204.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:01.35 | Epyon | If anyone was crying that he was alone on Const's bzwgen server now he has the chance to play with a lot people :P |
| 21:01.51 | CIA-17 | opencombat: 03jeffm2501 * 10GPx01/GPLib/src/graphicApplication.cpp: send back the mouse postion in gl coordinates, not SDL window coordinates |
| 21:02.07 | CIA-17 | opencombat: 03jeffm2501 * 10GPx01/GPLib/ (inc/lighting.h src/lighting.cpp): stub the lights since they are not complete |
| 21:02.58 | CIA-17 | opencombat: 03jeffm2501 * 10GPx01/GPLib/sample/ (dashboard.cpp vc71/dashboard.vcproj): change the dashboard sample to something more interactive, that shows how to do a point/line normal test. |
| 21:03.05 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15338 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (6 files in 3 dirs): OperationTextureFace added to the code and language. |
| 21:05.24 | delusional_ | how do you hide/show on-screen player names in observer |
| 21:06.10 | delusional_ | L |
| 21:06.40 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15339 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/roof.set: Removed recurence from the roof buildings -- they caused being stuck, hopefully that will fix it. |
| 21:07.06 | *** join/#bzflag AWOSLappy (n=awilcox@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 21:07.17 | AWOSLappy | I just realised. SoC is over. where's bzwb? |
| 21:07.28 | Epyon | AWOSLappy, havn't seen you for a while :P |
| 21:07.46 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: lappy was majorly borked |
| 21:07.54 | AWOSLappy | bootsector corruption, dead CD drive, no floppy drive, bricked, etc. |
| 21:08.12 | AWOSLappy | fixed though. seems the CD drive needed to be powered off for a week, now it works again. |
| 21:08.19 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: how is the city coming? :) |
| 21:10.29 | AWOSLappy | KTL: hehe |
| 21:12.36 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 21:12.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:16.02 | Winny | -advertise is used like "-advertise GROUP.GROUP GROUP2.GROUP2", right? |
| 21:18.04 | *** join/#bzflag AWOSLappy (n=awilcox@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 21:20.51 | Winny | wait, never mind |
| 21:21.38 | TD-Linux | Epyon, I see your map is popular |
| 21:21.39 | AWOSLappy | -advertise? |
| 21:21.46 | AWOSLappy | TD-Linux: his map is up?! |
| 21:21.54 | AWOSLappy | Oooooh system-wide CIA failure. |
| 21:21.59 | AWOSLappy | CIA-1 just quit #AWOS |
| 21:22.41 | TD-Linux | AWOSLappy, yes, on constitution's server. |
| 21:22.51 | delusional_ | now the chaos-dev finally broke it good. |
| 21:23.30 | TD-Linux | umm |
| 21:23.37 | TD-Linux | laserball2 is leaving 'mines' |
| 21:23.39 | TD-Linux | it's really weird |
| 21:23.43 | TD-Linux | go to that server and check |
| 21:24.00 | TD-Linux | a server SW fires, and the server says you were killed by laserball2's mine. |
| 21:24.10 | TD-Linux | whenever you go onto the purple base. |
| 21:25.57 | Winny | TD-Linux: thats a plugin const made |
| 21:29.06 | *** join/#bzflag moonpix (n=username@201.66.236.42) |
| 21:29.58 | AWOSLappy | that was the worst experience I've ever had |
| 21:30.00 | AWOSLappy | FPS: 1 |
| 21:30.45 | AWOSLappy | Epyon: get rid of those beautiful huge buildings |
| 21:32.56 | *** join/#bzflag winwinwin (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/davidhkmrpowers) |
| 21:33.36 | JeffM | Erroneous, what woudl the prototype look like for a method in a class that woudl auto cast the class as a float *? |
| 21:33.39 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=mattfp48@ool-44c75115.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:37.01 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-23 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 21:37.33 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com) |
| 21:37.36 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-151-201-218-58.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 21:39.12 | blast007 | AWOSLappy: get a real video card |
| 21:39.26 | blast007 | heck, my Intel 865 can run it |
| 21:40.17 | AWOSLappy | blast007: I have a RADEON 7000 |
| 21:40.25 | blast007 | hmm |
| 21:40.35 | AWOSLappy | without an upgrade connector. at all. |
| 21:40.36 | JeffM | what drivers? |
| 21:40.52 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: ATi drivers. let me get the version |
| 21:41.03 | JeffM | nix or windows? |
| 21:41.10 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: Windows XP |
| 21:41.21 | JeffM | should not suck that bad |
| 21:41.39 | AWOSLappy | from dxdiag: |
| 21:41.51 | Erroneous | JeffM: something like "static operator float*() (myClass c);" iirc |
| 21:42.23 | AWOSLappy | Main Driver: ati2dvag.dll Version: 6.14.0010.6436 (English) Date: 15-May-04 22:29:34 WHQL Logo'd: n/a Mini VDD: ati2mtag.sys VDD: n/a DDI Version: 9 (or higher) |
| 21:42.30 | JeffM | Erroneous, thanks |
| 21:42.40 | JeffM | ahh laptop, old drivers |
| 21:42.43 | JeffM | good lukc |
| 21:42.45 | AWOSLappy | DirectDraw Acceleration: Enabled / Direct3D Acceleration: Enabled / AGP Texture Acceleration: Not Available |
| 21:43.13 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: you can tell by looking at the driver name? |
| 21:43.21 | JeffM | see, "date" in there |
| 21:43.33 | AWOSLappy | I know it's extremely old |
| 21:43.40 | AWOSLappy | I meant, how did you know this was my laptop? |
| 21:44.07 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=mattfp48@ool-44c75115.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:44.29 | JeffM | only latops would have drivers thatold |
| 21:44.34 | JeffM | and dude.... your name |
| 21:44.43 | blast007 | lol.. |
| 21:44.49 | AWOSLappy | lol |
| 21:45.40 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes_ (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
| 21:46.17 | blast007 | I'm getting 4 to 10 on the 845G in this system |
| 21:46.24 | blast007 | 640x480 ;) |
| 21:46.59 | blast007 | I bet I'd get 800FPS on my desktop system at home |
| 21:49.26 | bryjen | my linux i965 at work does in the teens on bzwgen worlds. not really playable. |
| 21:49.47 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:50.10 | bryjen | ok for observating |
| 21:54.34 | AWOSLappy | bryjen: wows. I get teens in normal worlds, I play anyways |
| 21:54.49 | AWOSLappy | I've never really seen anything better than 30fps on any game ever |
| 21:55.23 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r15341 10/trunk/bzwgen/inc/globals.h: remove extra ; |
| 22:01.19 | JeffM | Erroneous,+ - * and / return a copy right? |
| 22:01.55 | Erroneous | hm? |
| 22:02.02 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 22:02.13 | JeffM | they don't return a refrence to the object, but a copy right? |
| 22:02.24 | Erroneous | right, they need to return a copy |
| 22:02.31 | Erroneous | += returns reference |
| 22:03.16 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15342 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/build.set: Doors are now properly textured |
| 22:03.26 | JeffM | thanks |
| 22:03.49 | Epyon | I must say playing on bzwgen is cool xP |
| 22:10.01 | TD-Linux | do you do uvmaps yet? |
| 22:10.31 | TD-Linux | it really shouldn't be _that_ hard |
| 22:10.37 | TD-Linux | just use the coordinates as a reference |
| 22:11.38 | Epyon | TD-Linux, my plan is to provide an easier way in the grammar to texture the objects instead of UV |
| 22:16.53 | TD-Linux | Epyon, yes, but I mean you still have to do UV's :P |
| 22:17.32 | TD-Linux | really, all the grammar needs to specify is how many units wide and high the texture should be |
| 22:17.44 | TD-Linux | then I think you can figure out what to do for most of the geometrical options |
| 22:18.02 | TD-Linux | I would suggest, in your data structures, to give each vertex a UV |
| 22:18.19 | TD-Linux | your rules start with a box, right? |
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| 22:21.42 | Epyon | TD-Linux, oh, you mean that... well UV's ARE implemented in this sense. They are not assigned yet though :) |
| 22:23.56 | TD-Linux | what do you mean? |
| 22:24.00 | TD-Linux | are they output to the map? |
| 22:24.04 | CIA-23 | ow |
| 22:24.12 | TD-Linux | :O |
| 22:24.16 | TD-Linux | never seen that one before |
| 22:24.59 | TD-Linux | human-behind-the-bot test :P |
| 22:25.25 | TD-Linux | Epyon, might be hard to get all your geometrical functions to deal with uvmaps |
| 22:25.28 | TD-Linux | extrude, for example |
| 22:25.51 | TD-Linux | though you can probably just assign the UV coords to be the same for the 4 new vertices, to stretch the texture across the 4 new sides. |
| 22:26.04 | TD-Linux | maybe that should be an option. |
| 22:26.14 | Epyon | TD-Linux, think about it -- we're dealing with QUADS here xP |
| 22:26.37 | Epyon | And we usually want the texture to be divided evenly :) |
| 22:27.37 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: you're a graphics dev, you can answer this |
| 22:27.52 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: I'm finally buying a new [desktop] computer. what card should I get? |
| 22:27.58 | TD-Linux | nvidia |
| 22:28.11 | Epyon | nvidia |
| 22:28.12 | TD-Linux | 8600 looks good |
| 22:28.24 | AWOSLappy | I knew nVidia :P |
| 22:28.29 | TD-Linux | the thinkpad I picked out has the opengl version of the 8600 |
| 22:28.37 | TD-Linux | quadro or whatever |
| 22:28.45 | AWOSLappy | right. okay |
| 22:29.06 | TD-Linux | the 'business line' scared me a bit at first, but 3Dmark seems to say they are the same |
| 22:29.14 | TD-Linux | the quadro's are slightly better scoring, in fact :) |
| 22:29.59 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, what do you do mostly? |
| 22:30.14 | JeffM | TD-Linux, the 8600 does GL just fine |
| 22:30.29 | JeffM | quadros are just optimised for difrent types of 3d operations. |
| 22:30.34 | JeffM | they are not "openGL versions" |
| 22:30.50 | TD-Linux | oh ok |
| 22:30.51 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: BZFlag, ZModeler, new RPGs |
| 22:31.01 | JeffM | do not get a quadro |
| 22:31.07 | JeffM | if you intend to play games |
| 22:31.08 | Epyon | Only get a quadro if you're doing 3d work in a commercial app |
| 22:31.18 | AWOSLappy | well, RPGs like "Murder on the Orient Express". |
| 22:31.20 | JeffM | and don't care if your other apps don't run |
| 22:31.30 | TD-Linux | I can only get quadros, not geforces, on IBM thinkpads |
| 22:31.39 | JeffM | TD-Linux, sucks to be you then |
| 22:31.51 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, get the best nvidia you can afford |
| 22:31.55 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: okay |
| 22:31.59 | JeffM | it's as simple as that |
| 22:32.06 | AWOSLappy | I'm pricing a "realistic" computer and a "fantasy" computer |
| 22:32.24 | JeffM | for what you do anything in the 7x00 line will run you fine |
| 22:32.26 | AWOSLappy | realistic = my budget. fantasy = no budget, creme of the crop |
| 22:32.47 | JeffM | 8x00 is better, but I 'm not sure you'd personaly see the difrence between the 2 |
| 22:32.58 | JeffM | they will all be leaps better then what you have now |
| 22:33.03 | AWOSLappy | hehe |
| 22:33.35 | AWOSLappy | well I take a business approach to this: I don't mind high initial cost if I get ROI and less upgrading |
| 22:33.59 | JeffM | how often do you intend to upgrade? |
| 22:34.16 | JeffM | less often then every 18 months? |
| 22:34.27 | AWOSLappy | no, 18 months sounds about right |
| 22:34.44 | JeffM | you run cutting edge software? |
| 22:34.58 | JeffM | like are you planing on rushing out and playing biosock, or any of the new games? |
| 22:35.03 | JeffM | or do you play older titles? |
| 22:35.27 | AWOSLappy | I play newer titles |
| 22:35.32 | JeffM | how new? |
| 22:35.35 | AWOSLappy | 2006 |
| 22:35.42 | JeffM | ok, so old |
| 22:35.47 | JeffM | new is 6 months |
| 22:35.52 | AWOSLappy | I'm think NASCAR '07, Murder on the Orient Express |
| 22:35.59 | JeffM | you'll be fine with antying in the 7x00 range then |
| 22:36.00 | AWOSLappy | they require about 64M VRAM, I believe |
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| 22:36.10 | JeffM | OOOOOOOOO |
| 22:36.12 | JeffM | that's nothing |
| 22:36.22 | Epyon | lol :P |
| 22:36.28 | AWOSLappy | recommended 128 |
| 22:36.40 | JeffM | 256 is the average in low end cards these days |
| 22:36.43 | AWOSLappy | oh okay |
| 22:36.50 | JeffM | high end cards have a gig |
| 22:36.54 | AWOSLappy | now |
| 22:37.06 | AWOSLappy | is it realistic that I won't be replacing the mobo for 2 years or more? |
| 22:37.18 | AWOSLappy | I don't mind getting more memory, or even a new CPU/GPU |
| 22:37.19 | JeffM | who's camp are you going with? |
| 22:37.28 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: I haven't decided. I really like Intel |
| 22:37.33 | AWOSLappy | AMD has let me down |
| 22:37.41 | JeffM | dunno how much longer the 775 socket will be around |
| 22:38.04 | AWOSLappy | is AMD better? |
| 22:38.15 | JeffM | they don't have an on die memory controller, so when they go to DDR3, they will have to replace motherboards |
| 22:38.26 | JeffM | AM2 has an upgrade path |
| 22:38.43 | JeffM | since the memory controller is on the CPU |
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| 22:39.47 | JeffM | the problem with just saying you'll get a new CPU is, that if your at the end of the speed spectrum, the next faster CPU uses a newer technology, so you need a new motherboard |
| 22:40.34 | JeffM | it's like geting a good 1.2 gig P3, saying that you'll get a new CPU, then 2 years later, the only faster CPUs are socket 775 Pentium 4s |
| 22:41.04 | TD-Linux | that's what happened to me |
| 22:41.07 | TD-Linux | except I got a Pentium 4 |
| 22:41.08 | JeffM | DDR2 is nearing it's end cycle, so in the next 2 years you'll be seeing a swap to DD3 |
| 22:41.18 | TD-Linux | and then all the new ones need a new chipset, which means a new motherboard. |
| 22:41.20 | AWOSLappy | so this is a sucky time to build a new comp? |
| 22:41.34 | JeffM | depends what your expectaitons are |
| 22:41.43 | TD-Linux | intel seems to change chipsets faster than sockets, and both break compatability |
| 22:42.01 | JeffM | for keeping one for 2 years, and expecting to peacemeal up a system as you go |
| 22:42.23 | JeffM | if you expect to do incremental upgrades, expect that you'll be upgrading motherboards too |
| 22:42.26 | JeffM | it's just another part |
| 22:42.43 | JeffM | and usualy not the most expensive part |
| 22:42.50 | AWOSLappy | so since we're heading into a new memory type, I shouldn't invest in a mobo? |
| 22:42.57 | JeffM | you need a mobo |
| 22:42.59 | AWOSLappy | >_> |
| 22:43.04 | JeffM | just know that it may not be with you in 2 years |
| 22:43.10 | JeffM | accept it and you will be fine |
| 22:43.11 | AWOSLappy | I mean _invest_. I was thinking maybe $200+ |
| 22:43.27 | JeffM | that's still cheaper then the high end CPUs and GPUs |
| 22:44.10 | JeffM | if your thinking of going high on a mobo, and low on CPU/GPU, don't bother, the speed increase from the mobo is minimal compared to the others |
| 22:44.23 | JeffM | save the moeny, go midrange on it all, cus you know you'll replace it later anyway |
| 22:44.24 | AWOSLappy | okay, yes that was my idea |
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| 22:44.48 | AWOSLappy | dang thangs change so quickly anymore |
| 22:44.53 | AWOSLappy | s/thangs/things/ |
| 22:44.58 | JeffM | a 200$ motherboard with the same intel chipset as a 85$ motherboard isn't going make your system a rocket ;) |
| 22:45.04 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: :) |
| 22:45.27 | JeffM | my system is runing perfectly fine with a motherboard I payed - 10$ for |
| 22:45.32 | AWOSLappy | wow |
| 22:45.43 | AWOSLappy | one final question... |
| 22:45.48 | AWOSLappy | cases |
| 22:45.57 | JeffM | pick one you like |
| 22:46.01 | JeffM | I like thermaltake |
| 22:46.04 | JeffM | and coolermaster |
| 22:46.04 | AWOSLappy | because mum thinks it's a Bad Idea<tm> to run a computer on the desk. |
| 22:46.11 | JeffM | why? |
| 22:46.15 | AWOSLappy | I dunno. |
| 22:46.25 | JeffM | you let your mom dress you too? |
| 22:46.33 | AWOSLappy | no. |
| 22:46.40 | AWOSLappy | but the computer is kinda for her too |
| 22:46.41 | JeffM | it dosn't mater where a case is as long as it has airflow |
| 22:46.51 | AWOSLappy | no, I mean without a case |
| 22:46.56 | AWOSLappy | the motherboard sitting on the desk. |
| 22:47.09 | JeffM | that does not give it good airflow |
| 22:47.12 | JeffM | and it's just stupid |
| 22:47.21 | JeffM | you want to protect the parts |
| 22:47.50 | JeffM | you need a case to hold the fans and shape the airflow |
| 22:47.53 | AWOSLappy | well the air vent is blowing right on it. |
| 22:48.00 | JeffM | that's not good airflow in and out |
| 22:48.02 | AWOSLappy | but yeah. and Cooler Master is nice |
| 22:48.14 | AWOSLappy | but I've been seriously burned by buying cases off the internet |
| 22:48.23 | JeffM | you need one side taking in cool air, and another removing the hot air |
| 22:48.37 | JeffM | read the reviews, go with name brands |
| 22:48.43 | AWOSLappy | yes! that's how grandma has her Athlon64 setup |
| 22:49.09 | JeffM | for a nice mid range case, the thermaltake matrix /coolermaster centurion is a good case |
| 22:49.28 | AWOSLappy | the fan on the side is taking in cool air, and the back fan is pushing out the hot |
| 22:49.46 | JeffM | it's good to have one in the front sucking in, and one on top blowing out too |
| 22:49.52 | AWOSLappy | keeps it at 29 degrees Celsius |
| 22:49.56 | AWOSLappy | and it's overclocked. |
| 22:50.07 | JeffM | my case is a statcker 830. I like it a lot |
| 22:51.01 | AWOSLappy | I had an Antec that had no slots to hold the CD drives up |
| 22:51.14 | AWOSLappy | it was very stupid. |
| 22:51.23 | JeffM | how much did you pay for it? |
| 22:51.44 | AWOSLappy | $50 I believe |
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| 22:52.17 | TD-Linux | hmm 3DMark scores are higher on the Quadro??? |
| 22:52.29 | JeffM | depends what it is doing |
| 22:52.38 | JeffM | the quadros are optimised for geometry |
| 22:52.39 | JeffM | and line drawing |
| 22:52.44 | JeffM | not textures and shaders |
| 22:52.49 | JeffM | most games run shaders |
| 22:52.55 | JeffM | it also depends on what quadro |
| 22:53.10 | JeffM | we have some quadro's here that suck at simple games, like never winter nights. |
| 22:53.21 | TD-Linux | it seems that most of it is the drivers, thougH? |
| 22:53.23 | JeffM | yet they can draw 3d lines faster then heck |
| 22:53.31 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119094 ? |
| 22:53.38 | JeffM | the drivers can't make the hardware go faster then it's clocked ;) |
| 22:53.51 | JeffM | that's one of them yeah |
| 22:54.02 | JeffM | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133007 |
| 22:55.11 | TD-Linux | hmm |
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| 22:55.30 | JeffM | TD-Linux, the simple fact is the quadros are not made for games |
| 22:55.31 | TD-Linux | apparently this particular quadro (570M 256MB) seems different, from what I read |
| 22:55.41 | JeffM | so game performance is not the goal of the hardware or drivers |
| 22:55.57 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: the one you linked me to says "I dont think it would make a great gaming case... Light server or buisness only." |
| 22:56.08 | TD-Linux | JeffM, what I have read agrees with you up to about the quadro 3xxx vs geforce 6800 |
| 22:56.23 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, how much are you going to spend on the system? |
| 22:56.27 | TD-Linux | but the 8xxx/quadro 5xx series is being weird. |
| 22:56.38 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: preferrably $800 or so |
| 22:56.40 | JeffM | it's possible they have not "quadorfied" the drivers yet :) |
| 22:56.52 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, then you arn't making what is called a modern "gaming" system ;) |
| 22:56.59 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: ahh ;) |
| 22:57.14 | JeffM | you won't be having a 600$ video card that pulls down half a killowat of power |
| 22:57.21 | JeffM | and you don't need agressive cooling |
| 22:57.25 | AWOSLappy | lol |
| 22:57.27 | AWOSLappy | right |
| 22:57.50 | AWOSLappy | for 600$ I could basically get a Core 2 Quad |
| 22:57.59 | JeffM | the 2 cases are nearly identical |
| 22:58.08 | JeffM | one is a clone of the other |
| 22:58.18 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15346 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/sky.set: Fixed skyscraper textures. |
| 22:58.18 | JeffM | I just don't like the bars on the front of the centuiron |
| 22:58.21 | AWOSLappy | true. |
| 22:58.37 | Epyon | Finally :P |
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| 22:58.51 | JeffM | Thermalake makes a nice 430w PS that fits in the Matrix just fine |
| 22:59.08 | Epyon | JeffM, the maps will jump to 16MB with texcoords... |
| 22:59.14 | JeffM | I also like that the matrix dosn't have a stupid window |
| 22:59.17 | JeffM | Epyon, fun |
| 22:59.24 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: the problem is, the ports are on the side |
| 22:59.25 | JeffM | they will compress |
| 22:59.27 | Epyon | Maybe I should do some optimization here? |
| 22:59.38 | Epyon | like reusing texture coords? |
| 22:59.45 | Epyon | (many of them are the same) |
| 22:59.48 | JeffM | that may save you some |
| 22:59.54 | AWOSLappy | and the drive shields are kind of...fugly |
| 23:00.05 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, then get what you want |
| 23:00.12 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: mmkay :) |
| 23:00.13 | JeffM | it dosn't realy matter for the low end system you'll be building. |
| 23:00.41 | AWOSLappy | eesh. the cooler master has the same fugly shields |
| 23:00.45 | AWOSLappy | >_< |
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| 23:01.02 | TD-Linux | aieek this is really weird. |
| 23:01.15 | TD-Linux | someone took the two laptops I'm comparing and benchmarked them in games. |
| 23:01.26 | JeffM | Epyon, just so you know, your big 8 meg map, compresed down to like 800k |
| 23:01.38 | TD-Linux | and the Quadro is like 10% faster ??? |
| 23:01.40 | Epyon | I've noticed. |
| 23:01.53 | Epyon | But 800kb is still better than 1,6MB? :P |
| 23:01.55 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: this looks really nice, yes? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119104 |
| 23:01.59 | TD-Linux | aaaah the quadro uses GDDR3 |
| 23:02.04 | TD-Linux | so it's not quite the same |
| 23:02.20 | JeffM | AWOSLappy, like I say, whatever floats your boat |
| 23:02.22 | TD-Linux | faster memory too |
| 23:03.40 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: one thing -- the hard disk bays are sideways |
| 23:03.51 | JeffM | dude, whatever |
| 23:03.55 | AWOSLappy | how does that work? I'm thinking the cords won't reach |
| 23:03.58 | JeffM | it realy dosn't matter |
| 23:04.00 | JeffM | they do |
| 23:04.07 | JeffM | it's not rocket science |
| 23:04.15 | JeffM | they arn't like under tension or antyhing |
| 23:04.24 | JeffM | it's a sata cable |
| 23:04.38 | JeffM | if they don't fit, GET LONGER ONES. |
| 23:04.47 | AWOSLappy | the power cords. from the PSU to the disk. |
| 23:04.55 | TD-Linux | get extension cables |
| 23:05.00 | TD-Linux | don't worry about wiring |
| 23:05.03 | TD-Linux | look at airflow |
| 23:05.05 | JeffM | it'llb e fine |
| 23:05.11 | AWOSLappy | TD-Linux: alright. |
| 23:05.16 | JeffM | the PSs are designed to go into more then one type of case |
| 23:05.22 | TD-Linux | the sideways disks might not be so good for cooling.... what do you mean by sideways anyway? |
| 23:05.22 | JeffM | usualy you have extra cord |
| 23:05.23 | JeffM | if you don't |
| 23:05.32 | JeffM | actualy they are awesome |
| 23:05.36 | JeffM | so easy to take out |
| 23:05.43 | JeffM | dont' stick over the motheboard |
| 23:05.46 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03bryjen * r15347 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/Mesh.h src/Mesh.cxx): correct parameters |
| 23:05.47 | JeffM | all the dell cases are like that now |
| 23:05.53 | TD-Linux | oh, you mean the connectors facing the case door/motherboard? |
| 23:05.59 | TD-Linux | my case is like that too |
| 23:06.01 | TD-Linux | it's great |
| 23:06.12 | TD-Linux | I imaged 2 hard drives a few weeks ago |
| 23:06.18 | JeffM | pulling drives out over the mobo sucks |
| 23:06.19 | TD-Linux | really easy to swap them in and out :) |
| 23:06.34 | TD-Linux | all the cables are plenty long |
| 23:06.44 | JeffM | Epyon, did your polyon test work? |
| 23:07.01 | TD-Linux | on my case, the cables have to go the back side (toward the motherboard) so slightly harder to connect |
| 23:07.04 | Epyon | JeffM, I'm not doing polygons ATM, I'm doing textures now. |
| 23:07.10 | JeffM | ahh |
| 23:07.17 | TD-Linux | YAY, textures! |
| 23:07.20 | AWOSLappy | TD-Linux: yes, that's the thing. I suppose you're right, easier to swap |
| 23:07.28 | JeffM | if you want to see how they will compress, just gzip it :) |
| 23:07.31 | TD-Linux | more space on the motherboard too |
| 23:10.28 | CIA-23 | opencombat: 03jeffm2501 * 10GPx01/GPLib/ (inc/vectorMath.h src/vectorMath.cpp): Add a 2d vector for all your UV needs. |
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| 23:14.13 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15348 10/trunk/bzwgen/ (inc/Mesh.h inc/globals.h src/Mesh.cxx): Evil, but working -- added TexCoord reusage for meshes. Probably can be optimized to be faster though. |
| 23:15.08 | TD-Linux | w00t! |
| 23:16.16 | JeffM | does gcc define M_PI in it's math.h? |
| 23:18.37 | AWOSLappy | math.h: 328: # define M_PI 3.14159265358979323846 /* pi */ |
| 23:18.45 | AWOSLappy | that's only #if defined __USE_BSD || defined __USE_XOPEN |
| 23:19.00 | AWOSLappy | but #ifdef __USE_GNU |
| 23:19.05 | AWOSLappy | 338: # define M_PIl 3.1415926535897932384626433832795029L /* pi */ |
| 23:19.09 | JeffM | that works |
| 23:19.13 | JeffM | as long as it's defined |
| 23:19.18 | JeffM | thanks |
| 23:19.23 | AWOSLappy | not a problem :) |
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| 23:27.11 | CIA-23 | opencombat: 03jeffm2501 * 10GPx01/GPLib/ (inc/vectorMath.h src/vectorMath.cpp): |
| 23:27.11 | CIA-23 | opencombat: add trig utils for angle deg/rad and vector conversions. |
| 23:27.11 | CIA-23 | opencombat: let the vector classes be constructed from each other. |
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| 23:37.24 | CIA-23 | BZFlag: 03chaos-dev * r15349 10/trunk/bzwgen/rules/ (build.set sky.set): Almost all of the buildings are now texcoorded :) |
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