IRC log for #bzflag on 20070711

00:00.25JBdiGrizJeffM: My daughter just started driving last month. I'll get her to chauffeur you around.
00:00.48JeffMhah
00:01.01*** join/#bzflag eTangenT_ (n=tangent@71-212-209-7.hlrn.qwest.net)
00:01.10JeffMI'm realy tempted to try the ride
00:01.20JeffMnot that'd I want to leave Erroneous high and dry
00:01.37JeffMbut it's a good drive I could do that would be longer then the normal hour long rides I do to lancaster
00:01.40JBdiGrizIt's supposed to be a really nice ride, especially if you take the PCH route.
00:02.10JBdiGrizI'm not sure how you go through Pendleton, but that's supposed to be excellent as well.
00:02.10JeffMyeah I know you can, it just seems stupid since we both have to basicly start and end at the same place :)
00:02.38blast007brlcad: having both of them works as well
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00:13.24EpyonDoes BZF send it's maps compressed?
00:13.34Epyonwhen sending from client to server
00:13.41brlcadit can
00:13.47Epyonit better :/
00:13.57brlcaddoes by default iirc, but doesn't have to
00:14.08brlcadeither way, they're tiny
00:14.13brlcadeven the complex ones
00:14.19Epyona noncomplex map of size 400 with just boxes defined by meshes takes... 200k already :/
00:14.28brlcadtextures will take up the vast majority if they're used
00:14.57brlcadthe maps and data are also cached so it's usually a one-time penalty
00:16.10EpyonAlso it seems I need to add normals to each face, or render triangles, because "face/n vertices 0 1 4 5/n endface/n" gives me a quad which has one face facing one way, the other one the other o.O
00:18.54spldartoooo upgrade
00:20.19CIA-3BZFlag: 03blast007 * r14497 10/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/ (plugins/torBlock/torBlock.cpp src/bzfs/Makefile.am): fix LDFLAGS for bzfs, update master list URL for torBlock, add debug message for torBlock
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00:45.57brlcadhehe, 30 messages
00:46.44spldartlol
00:46.55Winny"Oh no! your nice white shirt... muddy...."
00:47.06spldartyou watching dirty jobs?
00:47.21spldartlol
00:47.44Winny"time goes quickly when your having fun... but much slower when your cleaning up poo"
00:48.04Winnyannnnywayyyys
00:48.05spldartdave varsky, wearing all white just fell down in mud on dirty jobs... just as you said nice white/muddy
00:49.11Winnyhehe
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01:21.25CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14498 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (7 files in 7 dirs): Fixed the 3D cursor bug--now it properly centers on selections.
01:45.01CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14499 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
01:45.01CIA-3BZFlag: Well....at least it LOOKS like the selected objects can be scaled
01:45.01CIA-3BZFlag: (but somehow the changes don't stick). Rotation code is there, but it
01:45.01CIA-3BZFlag: doesn't work.
01:56.26brlcad~jude-++
01:56.44brlcadthat was actually manageably reviewable :)
01:57.12jude-lol
01:57.41CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14500 10/trunk/bzworkbench/objects/box.cpp: Okay, NOW box scaling works :)
02:06.27donny_baker~jude-++
02:06.34jude-what'd I do?
02:06.58donny_bakerjust for your hard work and progress
02:07.07donny_bakeri can't pay you in $$
02:07.11DTRemenak~jude-++
02:07.39donny_bakeri don't make maps, but i am excired for what this will do for map makers
02:07.53donny_baker~karma jude-
02:07.53ibotjude- has karma of 57
02:08.10spldart~karma spldart
02:08.10ibotspldart has karma of 14
02:08.14spldartooOOoo
02:08.18CBG~jude-++
02:08.21jude-thanks guys :)
02:08.26donny_bakerpretty good for only a couple of months jude- :)
02:08.30CBG~jude-++
02:08.38CBGhalf is from me :P
02:08.45jude-lol
02:08.47CBG'cause I want jude-'s kids
02:08.54donny_bakerheh
02:08.55spldartgross dude
02:08.57jude-O.o
02:09.02jude-~lart CBG
02:09.02ibotthrows CBG's poor little doggy off a cliff
02:09.25CBG:(
02:11.50jude-CBG: jude != judy
02:12.37CBGI know :P
02:12.44jude-good :)
02:12.55jude-some other people on this channel didn't :P
02:13.12jude-it was most amusing when they found out
02:13.19CBG:P
02:20.29jude-slightly off-topic (i.e. mathematical), but can anyone direct me to a good reference on how to use quaternions to represent both pitch and roll (i.e. attitude)?  OpenSceneGraph uses them for setting orientation, and it's Quaternion class has a limited API for creating and manipulating quaternions using just an angle and an axis, but I need to know how to extract an angle about a particular axis.
02:22.09brlcadslightly unrelated to that as well
02:22.51brlcadi was a bit disappointed we didn't get a contending submission from a female
02:23.04brlcadtoo much of a sausage fest in here sometimes
02:23.09jude-heh
02:23.56brlcadjude-: there's a decent quaternion tutorial on gamedev iirc
02:24.27brlcadwikipedia was't so bad either last I looked, though not the best
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02:29.43DTRemenakjude-: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternions_and_spatial_rotation is likely more helpful/applicable than wikipedia's main quaternion article
02:31.58jude-thanks DTRemenak
02:37.23brlcadit's usually easier to just use them as a means to an end, using routines that tell you what they do by example, unless you _want_ to wrap your head around the mathematics
02:38.39jude-basically, I'm trying to find a way to rotate an object about an arbitrary axis...while keeping the previous orientation
02:38.47DTRemenakyeah; likewise if you want to get a general "feel" for them, just toss together a little app that displays a model and lets you play with the component values
02:39.02DTRemenakor find one, I'm sure it's not an original idea
02:39.04brlcadhere's the gamedev article I was referring to: http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/quatcam/
02:40.07jude-brlcad: heh, too late--I wrapped my brain around wikipedia's math :P
02:40.25brlcadon their page three is an example of using a quat to rotate the camera, pretty much a corollaryto what you need
02:40.58DTRemenakuderstanding the actual math should not be underrated though :)
02:41.14DTRemenakhttp://graphics.stanford.edu/courses/cs348c-95-fall/software/quatdemo/
02:42.37brlcadheh, nice
02:42.59brlcadhey hart
02:43.07brlcadgood guy, great papers
02:44.09brlcadhart's usually one of the more interesting guys to listen to at siggraph every year
02:44.15DTRemenakyeah, schroder recommended his papers pretty frequently
02:44.56brlcadfun research too: http://graphics.cs.uiuc.edu/~jch/
02:45.40DTRemenakyup :)
02:46.33brlcadseriously want to integrate his surface constrained particle system code .. impressive means to tessellate implicits
02:58.06CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14501 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Removed some unused code; still working on 3D object rotation.
03:00.17blast007hrm, you need OpenGL headers to build trunk, even with --disable-client?
03:01.01blast007seems that src/obstacle/BaseSceneNodeGenerator.cxx uses GL
03:01.34DTRemenakseems like someone fixed that not too long ago
03:01.44DTRemenaksomeone must have broken it again
03:02.19DTRemenakor maybe someone was just complaining
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03:04.47blast007DTRemenak: apparently just complaining :)
03:05.20blast007unless they fixed it on branch, and not trunk
03:05.26DTRemenakjude: bzworkbench\include\render\renderable.h(30) : error C2248: 'osg::PositionAttitudeTransform::~PositionAttitudeTransform' : cannot access protected member declared in class 'osg::PositionAttitudeTransform'
03:05.51jude-hmmm
03:06.07MacrosoftL4m3r: what type is BZF_API?
03:06.12DTRemenakerr, jude-.  silly -.  Anyway, I dunno why it's complaining, but that line is around a hundred characters too long for me to comprehend at the moment, so I'm just gonna let you look at it :)
03:06.57DTRemenaksame deal on line 36
03:07.58Macrosoftcan anyone explain what BZF_API is? (datatype, constant, etc.)
03:08.56*** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm)
03:08.59Macrosoftfor example: BZF_API bool functionName (int iParamater) {//code}
03:09.05jude-DTRemenak: I don't get an error
03:09.08DTRemenakMacrosoft: BZF_API is a macro on windows that defines declspecs
03:09.28jude-what's your build environment like?
03:09.30DTRemenakjude-: I don't expect you to, different compiler :)
03:09.31JeffMmmm declspecs
03:09.37Macrosoftdeclspecs? never heard of that
03:09.57JeffMit tells windows what to export out of the exe and into the dll
03:10.08DTRemenakMacrosoft: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dabb5z75(VS.80).aspx
03:10.15Macrosoftdoes it do anything in linux?
03:10.20JeffMno
03:10.25JeffMthey are #defed to nothing
03:10.52DTRemenakMacrosoft: the definitions are in bzfsAPI.h at the very top of the file (like lines 25-40)
03:11.04JeffMMacrosoft, what are you trying to do?
03:11.24DTRemenakjude-: build environment is visual c++ 8.0, OSG 2.0
03:11.43Macrosofti was just wondering, i thought it had something to do with the return type
03:12.11JeffMnaw, it's just so the functions are exported/imported properly for windows
03:12.13DTRemenakit's a function storage-class attribute
03:12.33JeffMwhen it's compiled into the server, VC exports it, when compiled into the plug-in it imports it
03:12.53JeffMboth of them use the same header, so the #def does a switch based on if it's "inside" bzfs
03:13.19JeffMwindows only exports and imports functions you tell it to, nix tends to do them all
03:13.33Macrosoftok
03:14.03JeffMnix exporting them all has acaused a couple issues once or twice too
03:14.21JeffMthere can be issues if your plugin uses a function name that is the same as one in BZ
03:15.23Macrosofti made a library once, but i couldnt figure out how to include it in my .cpp that was calling the function in the library
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03:16.13JeffMyou include a .h file with a prototype for the function
03:16.16JeffMand then link in the lib
03:16.42Macrosoftlink? you mean use -l when i call g++?
03:16.53JeffMwas it a static lib?
03:16.55JeffMor a .so?
03:17.00Macrosofta .so
03:17.08JeffMdid you always want to use that lib?
03:17.15JeffMor did you want to swap it out at runtime?
03:17.41Macrosoftdont know, i was just trying to learn how to make lib's
03:17.42JeffMlike plugins? or like how sdl is in a .so
03:17.47JeffMthere are 2 types of libs
03:17.52JeffMdynamics and statics
03:17.58JeffMfor statics you just link them
03:18.09JeffMfor dyanmics that never change name, like for SDL, you link them
03:18.26JeffMfor dynamics that change at run time, like plug-ins, you use a load library type call
03:18.34JeffMfor the last, using libtool helps a lot
03:18.48JeffMbut all of them need a header that has the defines for the functions you want to call
03:18.59DTRemenakjude-|dinner: also, lines like "static const float CENTER_RADIUS = 2.0f;" trigger "bzworkbench\include\render\selection.h(67) : error C2864: 'Selection::CENTER_RADIUS' : only static const integral data members can be initialized within a class"
03:19.13Macrosoftload library call? how is that done?
03:19.36JeffMwell on windows, you give it the file name of a dyanmic object and tell it to load it
03:19.50JeffMthen your app loads in and dynamicly links to that lib
03:20.03JeffMthen you get the address of a method in it ( a function pointer ) and call it
03:20.08Macrosoftin the source, or as an argument to the compiler?
03:20.14JeffMin the source
03:20.18Macrosoftok
03:20.28JeffMsince it's your running source code that determines what lib to load
03:20.42JeffMif the lib is always the same, like SDL. then you can do it at a compiler level
03:20.58JeffMand the compiler will write startup code to load and link in the lib
03:21.21JeffMfor those, all you do is call the functions, and the compiler does the rest
03:21.24DTRemenakjude-|dinner: there are a half dozen in selection.h and one in ground.h at least.  proper fix is to initialize them outside of the class definition (with line like "const float Selection::CENTER_RADIUS = 2.0f" in the cpp file, and the declaration as "static const float CENTER_RADIUS;" in the header)
03:21.25Macrosoftwhat's the function call to load a lib in the source?
03:21.33JeffMdepends on your OS :)
03:21.38JeffMit's not part of standard C
03:21.38Macrosoftlinux
03:21.47JeffMI'd recomend using libtool
03:21.49Macrosoftubuntu, to be specigic
03:21.56Macrosoft*specific
03:22.05JeffMI'd have to look at how the plugin loader works
03:22.12JeffMI didn't write the nix version
03:22.14JeffMone sec
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03:22.28JeffMare you going to load the same lib every time?
03:22.35CATSprobably
03:22.46JeffMthen do it with a static link
03:22.55JeffMit's a lot easier
03:23.12CATSyou mean with the -l switch to compiler?
03:23.16JeffMyeah
03:23.21CATSok, thx
03:23.23JeffMthen the compiler will link that in
03:23.29DTRemenakdlopen/dlsym/dlclose if you really want to do it dynamically
03:24.24JeffMbut realy dynamics are only if you need to change the lib at run time, like plug-ins do
03:24.38JeffMif it's just a lib that has some of your common code, -l is way better
03:24.48DTRemenak"man 3 dlopen" will give you all the info you need for dynamic libs
03:25.07CATSwhat do you mean "change". what about the lib changes?
03:25.16JeffMthe name
03:25.21CATSoh
03:25.24JeffMsometimes you load airspawn.so
03:25.31JeffMsometimes you load myplugin.so
03:25.39JeffMthe name for plugins is determeined at run time by the commands
03:25.51JeffMso at compile time, there is no way to know what to load
03:26.07JeffMbut like openGL and SDL, we always need those
03:26.12JeffMso those are linked by the compiler
03:26.16JeffMthere are no options
03:26.40DTRemenakif we had a directx renderer, we would probably think about loading them dynamically
03:26.44DTRemenakbut we don't
03:26.44CATSok, so if static libs were used for plugins, you would have to rebuild bzfs each time you wanted to add/remove a plugin? that would suck
03:26.57DTRemenakcorrect
03:26.59JeffMindeed
03:27.24JeffMbasicly you only dynamicly load the stuff that may be difrent for each run
03:27.34JeffMif it has to be there, staticly link it
03:27.37CATS...still waiting for someone to join the channel
03:27.49JeffMit can still be a dynamic lib, your just using it like a static
03:37.48brlcadDTRemenak: yeah, I was just complaining.. (at least I was one of maybe multiple complainers) .. I didn't see a quick fix (to libObstacle)
03:42.28brlcadmm.. static const float data members
03:48.37jude-DTRemenak: weird errors
03:49.39jude-I'll try init-ing them outside the class like you recommend
03:49.39DTRemenakjude-: as far as the first one, it looks like you're instancing a PositionAttitudeTransform directly, and it can't be destroyed (virtual destructor)
03:50.30jude-yup, that is the case
03:51.51DTRemenakit's a bad idea to use new there even if it let you...you'd leak memory
03:52.42jude-unfortunately, it's a copy constructor, and it NEEDS an instance of PositionAttitudeTransform to work
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03:53.09DTRemenakyou just need to guarantee that data != NULL :)
03:53.29Macrosoftthat was weird
03:53.43DTRemenakone way to do it would be to take a reference rather than a pointer, I suppose
03:53.56jude-unfortunately, a lot of times data is NULL
03:54.04jude-IIRC
03:54.12jude-maybe I fixed that already...
03:57.05jude-nope, that constructor is no longer used :)
03:57.14DTRemenakif you really must accept null, declare a static, default-initialized instance of a derived class of PositionAttitudeTransform, and pass that instead of initializing new ones
03:57.49jude-luckily that is not the case :)
03:57.55DTRemenakindeed :)
04:00.27DTRemenakI'm actually mildly surprised gcc didn't choke on that
04:00.34jude-not even a warning
04:01.18CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14502 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Hopefully this fixes MSVC 8 build problems.
04:02.27jude-oh, and object rotation works in that commit :)
04:04.22jude-...well, at least partially (i.e. in the UI)
04:04.41DTRemenakjude-: must have missed my comment that line 36 did the same thing (now line 30)
04:04.57jude-heh
04:04.59jude-sorr
04:05.01jude-*sorry
04:05.10DTRemenaknp, I probably didn't say "jude-" before it :)
04:05.32jude-no...I remember reading it...I just forgot to act on it
04:05.37jude-my bad :)
04:06.03jude-come to think of it, I'm not sure that constructor is used anymore either
04:07.29Macrosoft*gcc goes on strike because of poor work conditions: too much work*
04:08.51jude-okay, I used it once...but I found a workaround :)
04:11.59CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14503 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (include/render/Renderable.h model/SceneBuider.cpp): Trying to fix MSVC 8 build issues, take 2 :)
04:12.26CIA-3BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14504 10/trunk/bzworkbench/dialogs/WorldOptionsDialog.cpp: silly warning (don't implicitly cast floats to bools)
04:13.30DTRemenakjude-: also, bzworkbench\model\model.cpp(118) : warning C4172: returning address of local variable or temporary
04:13.40jude-I know
04:13.44jude-GCC throws that too
04:13.49jude-that method isn't used yet
04:13.51DTRemenakyeah, figured it probably did
04:14.22DTRemenakyay, and now I get down to the linker errors :)
04:14.50jude-linker errors?
04:15.11DTRemenakVC project is out of date...linker errors are how I find out what source files you've added, that I haven't :)
04:15.19jude-ahh
04:19.06CIA-3BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14505 10/trunk/bzworkbench/windows/View.cpp: more implicit casts to bool
04:21.08jude-where?
04:21.16DTRemenakmodel directory
04:21.36jude-no, I mean where in the file?
04:22.00jude-oh
04:22.12DTRemenakhehe
04:22.13jude-I didn't notice that until you pointed it out :)
04:22.40DTRemenakI didn't notice it until VC printed it in an error message...I think it's more obvious in Courier New ;)
04:23.23CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14506 10/trunk/bzworkbench/model/ (SceneBuider.cpp SceneBuilder.cpp): Renamed SceneBuider.cpp to SceneBui*l*der.cpp
04:26.59CIA-3opencombat: 03jeffm2501 * 10GPx01/GPLib/ (inc/openGL.h src/openGL.cpp): color needs an asignment operator
04:32.35CIA-3BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14507 10/trunk/bzworkbench/TextUtils.cxx:
04:32.35CIA-3BZFlag: disable regex-dependent functions, we don't use them anyway
04:32.35CIA-3BZFlag: if you want to add regex capability, you'll need to check in a portable regex lib also, windows doesn't ship with one.
04:33.46CIA-3BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14508 10/trunk/bzworkbench/MSVC/VC8/BZWorkbench.vcproj: update vc8 build system
04:34.22CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14509 10/trunk/bzworkbench/Debug/model/subdir.mk: ...and here's the modified makefile that recognizes SceneBui*l*der over SceneBuider :)
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04:50.08Quelqu`unhey, all. I'm having this problem: the menu is unbelievably slow, but the game is plenty fast. is this a know bug, or are there any configuration adjustments I can make to fix this?
04:51.24jude-try restarting the client
04:51.34Quelqu`unI have, several times
04:51.39jude-hmmm...
04:51.52jude-are you running fullscreen or windowed?
04:51.58Quelqu`unfull screen
04:52.00jude-and on which OS?
04:52.04Quelqu`unlinux
04:52.18Quelqu`un(64-bit, if that changes anything)
04:52.30jude-did you build 32-bit?
04:52.37Quelqu`unno, I built it 64
04:53.05jude-that might have an effect...
04:53.08Quelqu`un(I just built it from source)
04:53.15jude-but I'm not one of the main devs, so I may be wrong :P
04:53.30jude-which distro?
04:53.35jude-maybe you can get a 32-bit binary
04:53.42jude-to save you the time of rebuilding :)
04:53.55Quelqu`unalright. I don't really mind the slowness of the menu, except it makes me lag when I'm accessing the menu or even when I've been killed and it's waiting for the right click
04:54.06Quelqu`unI run slamd64, a 64-bit version of slackware
04:54.29jude-come to think of it, I have the same problem when trying to respawn...but not on the menu
04:54.44jude-do you have the latest GPU drivers?
04:55.00Quelqu`unerrr. you mean like graphics card?
04:55.06jude-yeah
04:55.16Quelqu`unyes, I'm running the ATI binary drivers
04:55.45Quelqu`unlatest as of june 25th, 2007
04:56.00jude-huh
04:56.10jude-not sure
04:56.33Quelqu`unI'm talking around 4 seconds for a up or down error to take effect. that's not normal, is it?
04:56.37Quelqu`unarrow*
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04:56.47jude-no, not normal at all
04:56.54jude-it might be a 64-bit issue
04:57.05jude-but I'm not sure there's any way to tell
04:57.27jude-go ahead and submit a bug report
04:57.29Quelqu`unthat would be unfortunate. I can live with it, I just have to make sure I don't need the menu in-game
04:57.45Quelqu`unalright, I'll do that.
04:58.00jude-that way, at least one of the main devs can do something about it :)
04:58.44Quelqu`unheh. been running linux for 5 years, and this is the first bug report I've ever filed
04:58.49jude-lol
04:59.04jude-do you have the same problem if you aren't connected?
04:59.15Quelqu`unyeah. makes it a pain to set any options
04:59.16jude-i.e. if you're just running a client?
04:59.30jude-try running it in windowed mode
04:59.46Quelqu`unalright, is there a command-line option to pass, or is that an in-game option?
04:59.51jude-both
04:59.54jude-bzflag -window
04:59.57jude-or F1
05:00.00Quelqu`unthanks.
05:00.36jude-np :)
05:00.37Quelqu`unthat's actually alot more responsive.
05:00.59jude-heh---I guess you could just expand the window if you wanted fullscreen for now :)
05:01.05Quelqu`unmaybe because I'm using an odd-sized screen? 1280x800
05:01.36jude-I dunno--those are my screen dimensions
05:01.49jude-but I have a 32 bit Linux
05:02.13Quelqu`unalright. how do I resize? it won't allow my cursor outside the window
05:02.23jude-I think it's a CLI option...
05:02.37Quelqu`unoops. good idea
05:03.26jude-pass "-geometry 1024x768" or something, I would think
05:03.33Macrosoftwhat does /beep do?
05:04.09Quelqu`uneep. the bigger it gets, the slower it is
05:04.21JeffMQuelqu`un, what card/driver?
05:04.24jude-I was just about to report that :)
05:04.44JeffMit's probably a font thing
05:04.55jude-good thing the next release has a new font manager :)
05:04.59Quelqu`unuhm. it's a ATI radeon xpress 200M, using the ATI binary drivers
05:05.04JeffMyep that'd be it
05:05.10JeffMyou want the bitmap fonts
05:05.17Quelqu`unhow do I do that?
05:05.24JeffMconfig option
05:05.27JeffMlet me findit
05:05.32Quelqu`unok, thank you very much
05:05.40JeffMjude-, only if he merges my code into mainline
05:06.09jude-wishful thinking, I guess :)
05:06.42JeffMhe probably will
05:06.46JeffMit should be fast enough
05:07.26Quelqu`undo you mean a config option when building, or passed to bzflag?
05:07.42blast007Quelqu`un: config file setting
05:07.46JeffMyeah
05:08.02JeffMin your bzflag config file, in .bzf in your home dir
05:08.03Quelqu`unoh, well then. that explains why I don't see it in ./configure --help :P
05:08.21JeffMadd set useBitmapFontRenderer 1
05:08.27JeffMyeah it's a run time thing
05:08.30JeffMnot a compile thing
05:08.44JeffMATI does crap blending and texture scaling on some of there low end cards
05:09.00Quelqu`unalright. I'll go try it
05:09.24JeffMyou may also want to try to turn off blending and smothing if that dosn't help
05:10.00Quelqu`unit's still as slow as ever. ><
05:10.03JeffMthe new font system will generate the fonts at screen size, so they won't be scaled, and should be fast and not look like crud
05:10.12Quelqu`unwouldn't blending and smoothing be only for the in-game?
05:10.18JeffMno it's for all things
05:10.25Quelqu`unoh, alright. I'll try that right now
05:10.34JeffMhow much video memory does your card have?
05:11.28Quelqu`unit's 64mb shared
05:11.34Quelqu`unand turning those off doesn't help
05:12.55JeffMdunno then
05:13.41jude-sorry about that
05:13.53Quelqu`unI know it's not the best card, but in-game it's wonderful, only the menus suck
05:13.58Quelqu`undon't worry about it =]
05:14.37jude-is it possible to allocate more memory to the card at the bios level?
05:14.43JeffMit shodn't be that bad, I have one, at a faster speed
05:14.46JeffMand it runs fine
05:14.50JeffMso it's gotta be drivers
05:15.08Quelqu`unI don't think so. the bios on this computer is absolute crap, almost nothing can be set
05:15.12JeffMjude-, we should not the full 64
05:15.28jude-that sentence made no sense :/
05:15.52JeffMtho if it's only using system ram, that does suck. mine has 128megs of its' own ram, then will hyperemory another 256
05:16.25JeffMyou have the current drivers from ATI? what does it say in the chat box when BZ starts up, for your renderer?
05:16.34Quelqu`unone second, I will check
05:16.59Quelqu`unfor OpenGL driver?
05:17.29Quelqu`unATI Radeon Xpress Series
05:18.13Quelqu`unand yes, I upgraded just the other day to the latest drivers
05:18.17JeffMthen is using that driver
05:18.21JeffMdunno what to tell ya
05:18.42jude-isn't the Xpress 200M use an r200 series chipset?
05:18.46Quelqu`unand the other games I run, the menu is fine. ppracer, neverball, etc
05:18.48jude-s/isn't/doesn't
05:19.12jude-if so, you can try the opensource radeon driver
05:19.44Quelqu`unhow would I tell if it does?
05:19.44Quelqu`unonline?
05:19.44jude-lspci -vv might tell you
05:20.21JeffMjude-, r300
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05:20.41Quelqu`unI don't see it saying anything about r200 or r300
05:21.01JeffMyou won't
05:21.05jude-my bad
05:21.06JeffMit's the internal chip name
05:21.14jude-here's something interesting: http://www.ensode.net/ati_radeon_xpress_200m_linux.html
05:21.17JeffMand since it's an IGP, it's not even a real chip
05:21.23JeffMit's onboard
05:22.12Quelqu`unthe problem is the bios on this is horrible.
05:22.37Macrosoftupgrade then?
05:22.44Quelqu`unit's a laptop
05:22.48Quelqu`unoh, the bios
05:22.51Quelqu`unsorry
05:23.03Quelqu`unI'll look, but I think I'm running the latest version
05:23.24Quelqu`unI'll reboot and look into it
05:23.25jude-there may be some UMA bios options you can configure...
05:23.28Quelqu`unbbiab
05:23.33JeffMwhat laptop manufacturer is it?
05:23.36Quelqu`ungateway
05:23.41Macrosoftlaptops can be upgraded too... with the right tools (sledgehammer)
05:23.56JeffMwhat model?
05:23.57Quelqu`unhehe. yes, but this is the only laptop I have for college
05:24.00jude-Macrosoft: try it on your first one when you get it and let us know how it goes :)
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05:24.07*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ
05:24.08Quelqu`unuhm mx6441
05:24.22Macrosoftjude-: already have, it doubled my RAM
05:24.29Quelqu`unI'll brb, I'll look at the bios options
05:24.34JeffMhah I have a 6454
05:24.56JeffMprobably older version of what this is
05:25.13jude-it's too bad the X200m sucks in general
05:25.39JeffMit's the slowest clocked oldest integrated r300
05:25.49JeffMalso does host based vertex stuff
05:25.55JeffMI have the x1150 chipset
05:26.07JeffMfaster and not so much is sent to the host cpu
05:26.13JeffMruns bz fine
05:26.15jude-indeed
05:26.16Macrosoftcatalyst sucks
05:26.26jude-still UMA though :(
05:26.32Winnyhave an exciting evening everyone
05:26.36Winnylater
05:26.46JeffMno it's not
05:26.47Macrosoftits morning here
05:26.53JeffMit has 128 megs of it's OWN ram
05:27.07jude-but it borrows some from the system ram you said
05:27.17JeffMthen can hyper memory ( cache out ) an additonl 256 from system ram
05:27.21jude-the X200M has 64 MB of it's own RAM...
05:27.22JeffMyeah like AGP did
05:27.38JeffMI'm betting his has 0 ram, and does the 64 UMA
05:27.42JeffMthat stuff is slow ;)
05:27.47jude-heh
05:28.09jude-that's why I saved a bit longer and got an NVIDIA GeForce Go 7400
05:28.16JeffMgiving the card access to stytem ram isn't bad, since the driver runing in CPU space can put stuff in system ram fast,
05:28.33JeffMno laptop is ever going ot have enough card ram :)
05:28.44jude-no machine will ever have enough RAM, period :)
05:28.45JeffMfor the price I paid I'm happy with it
05:29.13jude-that's what matters, I guess
05:29.37JeffM700$ for a dual core laptop. was a good deal at the time
05:29.57jude-dual Turions?
05:29.57JeffMand this chipset is faster then the nvidia 6100 series
05:29.57jude-heh
05:30.02JeffMyeah, dual core turion
05:30.02jude-nvidia 6150 is crap
05:30.04JeffMTL 50
05:30.07jude-nice
05:30.29Macrosoftyou can get an 8-core mac pro for $14K
05:30.41jude-...why?
05:30.51jude-you can get an 8-core Xeon system for 2K
05:31.04Macrosoftthen you sell your home and all your other possesions to pay for it
05:31.24jude-try it out for us and let us know how it goes :)
05:31.53Macrosofti'll pass, mac os annoys me
05:31.59jude-same here
05:32.11jude-it's the only annoying UNIX
05:32.19*** join/#bzflag Quelqu`un (n=Quelqu`u@71.237.105.224)
05:32.25Quelqu`unhey, I'm back.
05:32.30jude-how'd it go?
05:32.34Macrosofti'll stick with my crappy single core P4
05:33.04jude-Quelq`un: any improvement?
05:33.15jude-*Quelqu`un
05:33.36Quelqu`unI can't configure anything. it's fixed at 64mb on UMA
05:33.49jude-ouch
05:34.32Quelqu`unand the rebooting didn't help, it's still just as slow
05:34.57Macrosoftdid you try sledgehammer.exe
05:34.58Macrosoft?
05:34.59jude-hmmm...it says here (http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ATI_Mobility_Radeon_Xpress_200M) that you can use the Radeon driver wih X.org 7.2...
05:35.11jude-that might be an improvement
05:35.36jude-at least, it's a different driver to try :)
05:35.49Quelqu`unthe problem I had with the radeon driver is it didn't support my resolution (or maybe I just didn't try hard enough)
05:36.24Macrosoftthat reminds me, i still cant get linux to run in 1440x900
05:36.26Quelqu`unI'll try that now, though
05:36.36jude-you'll have to increase the Horizonal Sync
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05:36.51Macrosoftwho?
05:37.16Quelqu`unI'll try with the radeon driver. brb
05:37.33brlcadthat voodoo that you do
05:37.37Macrosoftjude-: you mean me or Quelqu`un?
05:37.49jude-both?
05:37.53Macrosoftahh
05:38.03jude-well, mostly to Quelqu`un
05:38.11jude-but it might help you :)
05:38.15jude-no guarantees, though
05:39.31Macrosoftmine is currently 1280x1024 Hfreq: 63.9KHz Vfreq: 59.9Hz PixelClock:108.1MHz
05:39.45*** join/#bzflag Quelqu`u1 (n=Quelqu`u@71.237.105.224)
05:40.11jude-Quelqu`u1: how did it go?
05:40.30Quelqu`u1well, the menus are much faster, but my screen is all messed up, and, more importantly, the game is very slow. it says it's using mesa
05:40.39jude-eep
05:40.44jude-mesa
05:40.56Quelqu`u1yeah.
05:41.00Macrosoftjude-: you can use autocomplete instead of trying to spell Quelqu`un
05:41.16jude-you're better off with the latest ATI drivers, I guess?
05:41.32Quelqu`u1direct rendering: No
05:41.32Quelqu`u1OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect
05:41.37Quelqu`u1from glxinfo
05:41.41jude-yup
05:41.47jude-glx
05:41.53Quelqu`u1yeah, at least with the ati drivers I can play the game
05:42.09jude-sorry--it looks like there's no real solution here
05:42.18jude-until ATI makes a better driver
05:42.38jude-or until the new fontmanager gets merged
05:42.41Quelqu`u1that's unfortunate
05:42.49Quelqu`u1that wouldn't be in CVS, would it?
05:42.55jude-it should be..
05:42.57JeffMno
05:42.58jude-~bzsvn
05:42.59ibotrumour has it, bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag
05:43.00jude-nm
05:43.08JeffMit's in a branch that isn't stable
05:43.12Quelqu`u1oh, alright
05:43.13JeffMit's not in the main dev yet
05:43.21Quelqu`u1(sorry, still used to CVS ><)
05:43.22JeffMit's in the ftgl branch
05:43.27JeffMnot trunk
05:43.36jude-I see
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05:43.44JeffMbut 2.1.x is not compatable with 2.0.x
05:43.57jude-to what extent?
05:43.58JeffMso you would not be able to play on normal servers
05:44.02jude-oh
05:44.03JeffMnot
05:44.05JeffMnone
05:44.06Quelqu`u1oh. well that's out of the picture then
05:44.06JeffMzip
05:44.08JeffMnot at all
05:44.14JeffMdifrent net proto
05:44.21JeffMdif game logics, etc..
05:44.29Quelqu`u1total overhaul, eh?
05:44.37JeffMno
05:44.44JeffMwe break protocoll each major version
05:44.53Quelqu`u1oh. didn't know that
05:45.03CATSall your base are belong to us
05:45.05JeffMmany of the changes arn't backwards compatable
05:45.13purple_cowCATS: *ahem*
05:45.14JeffMCATS don't go there
05:45.15JeffMrealy
05:45.20jude-~lart CATS
05:45.20ibotdecapitates CATS conan the destroyer style
05:45.41Quelqu`u1I'll brb, switching back to the ati driver
05:46.49jude-~Alkalai
05:46.57jude-~spell Alkalai
05:47.12JeffMdude, pick a name and stick with it
05:49.28JeffM100$ more for a core 2 :/
05:49.41jude-why would you want a core 2?
05:49.50jude-didn't you see the list of chip errors Intel reported?
05:50.19JeffMyeah, I also saw no info on what those errors actualy DID
05:50.27*** join/#bzflag Quelqu`u1 (n=Quelqu`u@71.237.105.224)
05:50.33jude-let me dig it up for you
05:51.01JeffMcus people is using them a LOT
05:51.12jude-http://download.intel.com/design/processor/specupdt/31327914.pdf
05:51.14JeffMand they don't seem to be having masive system problems
05:51.17Alkalai8-cores...the way tis is going, we may be seeing boxes with 512 cores soon
05:51.38JeffMjude-, are there any realworld issues with them?
05:51.48JeffMcus I ain't got acrobat here
05:51.52JeffMso that ain't gonna fly
05:51.54jude-also: http://www.geek.com/images/geeknews/2006Jan/core_duo_errata__2006_01_21__full.gif
05:52.17Alkalaiit seems that everyone's solution to performance is to cram 20 or so more cores onto the chip
05:52.37jude-Alkalai: that's because horizonal scaling is cheaper and better than vertical scaling
05:52.38Quelqu`u1Alkalai: what would you suggest?
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05:53.14eTangenTum, that was odd.
05:53.23eTangenTBZFlag completely hung up, and was un-killable.
05:53.31eTangenTanyone else ever have that one happen?
05:53.32Alkalaiits like: "hey dude, i just got the 8 x 10 ^ 64 core processor, it roxxorz!!!1!!!"
05:53.34jude-not even killall -s SIGKILL bzflag worked?
05:53.40eTangenTjude-: Nope.
05:53.48jude-scary
05:53.48JeffMAlkalai, you can stop babbleing now
05:53.52eTangenTcompletely dead.
05:54.00JeffMsince you obviously know little about what your talking about.
05:54.01Alkalaibabbleing?
05:54.06JeffMyes babble
05:54.11JeffMnoone cares what your saying
05:54.20JeffMand it's geting in the way of other conversations.
05:54.36JeffMeTangenT, I've seen it happen, it's usualy driver related.
05:54.39Alkalaioh wait, that  is how its spelled...
05:54.47JeffMAlkalai, it dosn't matter, you get the point
05:54.53JeffMI'd not push it if I were you
05:54.57eTangenTIn other news, my bzfs plugin is causing bzfs to segfault, and I got that bzflag lockup while running GDB on bzfs
05:55.14JeffMeTangenT, the client locked or the server?
05:55.24Alkalai*Jeff blows up /me 's house*
05:55.47eTangenTJeffM: The client locked up.
05:55.56eTangenTThe server probably segfaulted... that's what's been happening.
05:56.11eTangenTIt does it after a player joins, but before it lets them spawn
05:56.14JeffMthat should not kill the client, odd
05:56.19JeffMwere you able to kill BZ?
05:56.23JeffMor did you have to kill X?
05:56.24eTangenTnot the client
05:56.35eTangenTI did what shuold be done more often on this piece of computer
05:56.40eTangenTshutdown -r now
05:56.47JeffMand that ran?
05:56.49eTangenTafter nicely closing other programs, of course
05:56.50eTangenTyeah
05:56.56JeffMok, then the client app just died
05:56.57eTangenTI had to Ctrl+Alt+F_
05:57.03JeffMthat's not too bad
05:57.06JeffMyou killed X
05:57.13eTangenTyeah
05:57.20JeffMcould be driver, but most likely it just ate all the CPU waiting for a network packet :)
05:57.28eTangenTpossibly
05:58.17eTangenTbut yeah, Jeff, I've been working on that Attack and Defend plugin again
05:58.22eTangenTstill dunno why it's segfaulting
05:58.57JeffMprobably accessing some memory that isn't valid anymore
05:59.03JeffMI'd bet a string ;)
05:59.12JeffMor derefing a null
05:59.35blast007sounds like a job for valgrind ;)
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06:02.44eTangenThm, Jeff, now it's segfaulting somewhere else
06:02.54eTangenTit's while the client says Downloading Files...
06:03.06eTangenTProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
06:03.07eTangenT0xb7ac5c23 in strlen () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6
06:03.15eTangenTthat's what I got in GDB
06:03.55eTangenTno wait, that's the same place, GDB is what locked up bzflag!
06:03.57eTangenThahaha.
06:04.01jude-strlen called on NULL?
06:04.36JeffMyeah tha'd be bad
06:04.41JeffMdo't call strlen on a null
06:04.50eTangenTJeffM: I don't have a strlen on a null.
06:04.54JeffMyou may have other build issues then
06:05.06jude-doesn't std::string use strlen internally?
06:05.33DTRemenakbacktrace
06:08.14eTangenTgetting backtrace, one sec...
06:08.43eTangenThttp://pastebin.ca/613831
06:09.45jude-yup...it's happening inside std::string
06:10.16jude-maybe you're comparing a NULL, empty, or uninitialized string using the != operator somewhere?
06:12.01eTangenThm
06:12.26eTangenTI can find several insttanced of comparing to a bz_eTeamType... but it's the same type on either side
06:14.01JeffMwhat are you doing with API strings?
06:14.10JeffMdid you make your own?
06:14.19eTangenTno?
06:14.27JeffMthere should not be a ? at the end of that
06:14.36JeffMyour code uses the api string somewhere
06:14.40JeffMthat is where it is crashing
06:15.09eTangenTI don't ever comparee to bz_eTeamType... I init variables with that type... but don't use it elsewhere
06:15.26JeffMok, never  said anything about TEAM type
06:15.28JeffMit's with the string
06:15.32JeffMin your tick event
06:15.52JeffMshow me the code for your "process" method
06:16.20eTangenThttp://pastebin.ca/613838
06:16.58JeffMwow dude, ever hear of the concept of "breaking stuff into functions" :)
06:17.17JeffMwhat do you do on the tick event?
06:17.31eTangenTJeffM: Tick event just checks to make sure nobody's picking up the wrong flag
06:17.39JeffMword wrap makes that hard to follow
06:18.14JeffMok, but your process function, dosn't seem to test for tickEvent
06:18.40eTangenTwell, I'll put that in instead of just else
06:18.46JeffMfirst make sure pr isn't null before you de ref it
06:19.08JeffMwhat is adDefender?
06:19.43eTangenToof
06:19.48eTangenTI think I found where I messed up
06:20.03eTangenTI checked for null in the wrong thing
06:20.09JeffMyeah on the string
06:20.16JeffMcheck the pointer
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06:20.23JeffMthen just check if the size is not 0
06:20.35CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14510 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (objects/box.cpp windows/eventHandlers/selectHandler.cpp):
06:20.35CIA-3BZFlag: You can rotate individual objects by dragging linearly along the desired
06:20.35CIA-3BZFlag: axis...the object will spin CCW if the mouse moves away from the origin,
06:20.35CIA-3BZFlag: and CW if the mouse moves toward the origin. Group rotation doesn't work
06:20.35CIA-3BZFlag: yet...that'll be up soon.
06:20.38JeffMso if ( pr && pr->currentFlag.size() )
06:20.49JeffMthat's what you want
06:21.26jude-brlcad: don't try it on Windows :)
06:21.58jude-I haven't had a chance to test it yet on that platform ;)
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06:22.50eTangenToh my god, I fixed it
06:22.53eTangenTthanks, Jeff!
06:23.19jude-DTRemenak: it's designed to run from X-Windows
06:23.26jude-I still have to add the WinMain code
06:23.37DTRemenakjude-: fltk handles that nicely, actually
06:23.44jude-really? cool!
06:23.54DTRemenakyour first few checkins worked fine
06:24.02DTRemenakwith windows and buttons and stuff
06:24.09jude-neat
06:24.11DTRemenakjust have to get osg to cooperate
06:24.51DTRemenakit's not quite "right", you do need a winmain (otherwise the console window will hang around unnecessarily), but it all worked more or less
06:25.04jude-heh
06:25.16jude-but OSG is giving you grief still?
06:25.19DTRemenakyup
06:25.25jude-how so?
06:25.31DTRemenakcrashes constantly
06:25.45DTRemenaklike whenever you call readfile, for one
06:25.51jude-huh
06:25.57DTRemenaktries to allocate around 4gb of memory
06:26.12jude-that's....not my code doing that
06:26.16DTRemenakno, no it's not :)
06:26.22DTRemenakif it was your code, I'd be complaining here :)
06:26.36jude-heh
06:26.58jude-hmmm....maybe it's because the .obj files are UNIX-formatted?
06:27.00DTRemenakI'm guessing the osg people linked to a different runtime than I am
06:27.16DTRemenaknot using your obj files, nor theirs
06:27.27jude-huh
06:27.37DTRemenakdies loading the png first :)
06:27.48jude-that's a bad sign
06:27.51DTRemenakyup
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06:28.36DTRemenakeven dies when I pass correct, fully-qualified windows paths, so they're not doing something goofy there either
06:29.24jude-you're sure its OSG 2.0?
06:29.27DTRemenakmy guess is that they linked to the ST dynamic libs, and I'm linking to MT
06:29.29DTRemenakyeah
06:29.43jude-heh--that may be
06:30.16DTRemenakand since theirs don't have debug enabled, I can't trace in them either, which is pissing me off
06:30.22DTRemenakso next up is to build my own osg :)
06:30.32jude-that was my next question :)
06:31.14DTRemenakheh, their specialized vectors do crazy stuff too...allocate 8 million+ entries at creation
06:31.53jude-wow
06:31.58jude-haven't seen that yet
06:32.06DTRemenakprobably the same sort of issue
06:32.20jude-indeed
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06:38.30DTRemenakheh, you know windows is a second-class platform to people when they put "REM vim: set sw=4 ts=8 et ic ai:" at the bottom of their batch files :)
06:38.50jude-lol
06:39.07jude-Windows makes me want to RAM my ROM
06:40.20L4m3rLinksys WRT54G is the linux-moddable one, right?
06:40.29jude-heh--in the Vi$ta EULA, I remember reading a line that read "You will not attempt to overcome the limitations of the Software"
06:40.59jude-under the DRM section, of all places :P
06:41.23L4m3rThe local Best Buy has a butt-load of Linksys wireless-G routers for $70 or so
06:41.35purple_cowSo.  To build bzw now, I need OSG?  is "2.0" the right version?
06:41.43jude-yup
06:45.21L4m3rheh, nevermind- the "L" variant is cheaper on Amazon. Figures. :P
06:45.39jude-rule of thumb: "it's always cheaper online" :)
06:45.47DTRemenakgrr...their silly build system doesn't support spaces in pathnames
06:46.11jude-weird
06:46.21jude-too UNIX-ey, I guess
06:46.32DTRemenakno, just not thought through well
06:46.41DTRemenaklooks like they basically have one windows build box
06:46.57L4m3rjude-: yes, but it appeared that Best Buy was trying to get rid of these, as there was a large stack of them at the front of the store and a couple other piles around...
06:47.15jude-heh
06:47.29purple_cowI think DRM is the big reason behind the "no virtualization" clause in the home licenses
06:47.49jude-pffft.  how do they intend to enforce that clause?
06:47.54L4m3rI just assumed it was meant to screw over the mac users
06:48.24purple_cowL4m3r: the mac users are users who would otherwise not have purchased a copy of windows
06:48.51L4m3rjude-: they won't. Thing is, Virtualization products for the mac tend to be very good about following the license
06:49.12jude-what about virtualization products for UNIX in general?
06:49.13purple_cowthey can have the OS itself enforce it
06:49.23purple_cowit's not hard to detect that a system is running virtualized
06:49.36L4m3rpurple_cow: perhaps they figure that they can squeeze more out of a mac user ;)
06:49.41jude-purple_cow: how?
06:50.11L4m3ror that they want to make sure that it doesn't *totally* suck next to OS X... though that's pretty much a lost cause now
06:50.17jude-please pardon my ignorance on the matter
06:50.55purple_cowthere's always a "backdoor" device of some kind for the host to talk to tools running in the guest
06:51.11L4m3rwould bootcamp be considered virtualization, since they essentially have to emulate the BIOS?
06:51.19purple_cowL4m3r: no
06:51.28L4m3rhm, k
06:51.32purple_cowonce the OS gets loaded, it's in full control of the hardware
06:51.55purple_cowvirtualization is running the OS in ring 1 and tricking it to make it think it's in ring 0
06:52.48jude-theoretically, can said "backdoor device" be made invisible to the guest OS to prevent it from realizing it is running on virtualized hardware?
06:54.24purple_cownope
06:55.13purple_cowwow OSG's build system is colorful
06:55.22DTRemenaknot on windows :S
06:55.30DTRemenakbut it makes me SAY colorful things
06:55.42purple_cowI like the little progress indicator
06:56.06DTRemenakecho (any idea how to make VisualStudio show some visual progress??)
06:56.16DTRemenakfrom their batch files :)
06:56.33purple_cowhaha
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06:58.41L4m3r~lart Constitution
06:58.41ibotputs on some milking gloves. "All right, now, Constitution, this won't hurt a bit...."
06:58.47Constitutionheh
06:59.01Constitutionyeah sorry, this internet connection seems to die every half hour or so
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07:07.05purple_cowjude-: nothing will stop them
07:08.58jude-...but that's a wild fantasy
07:09.27purple_cowDTRemenak: I prefer a nice game of chess, personally
07:09.47jude-lol
07:09.53purple_cowjude-: wanna know a neat trick?
07:09.56jude-sure
07:10.10DTRemenaktic tac toe ftl ;)
07:10.15purple_cowI've been reading through some of your code, and I see you often do checks like this:
07:10.18purple_cowif(drawInfoVals[0] != BZW_NOT_FOUND) {
07:10.34purple_cowa better way is to write it like this:
07:10.42purple_cowif (BZW_NOT_FOUND != drawInfoVals[0])
07:11.00purple_cowthis way, if you typo == or != as "=", the compiler will catch the problem
07:11.13jude-ahh
07:11.31jude-gcc has thrown warnings about that...
07:12.44lan56-Werr and its the same
07:13.16purple_cowjude-: you don't need to change it on my behalf
07:13.30purple_cowIt's just a neat trick that I like to use
07:13.34jude-I'm doing it because it's a good idea :)
07:14.39jude-I'm just doing it to the base classes (bz2object and DataEntry)
07:15.04purple_cowWerr isn't always practical, especially when you've got something portable across compilers
07:15.28jude-that, and some warnings can be ignored
07:15.44DTRemenakespecially across compilers
07:15.48lan56purple_cow: good point, I didn't think about that
07:15.51jude-in my case, warnings generated from methods that are not used
07:17.36purple_cowit makes things so predictable
07:17.48DTRemenakuntil you upgrade
07:18.44DTRemenakw00t
07:19.15jude-nice
07:19.45jude-basically, left-click + drag moves the trackball, right-click + drag zooms in and out...
07:19.58jude-double left-click selects objects
07:20.07jude-shift + double left-click selects multiple objects
07:20.27jude-no textures?
07:20.31DTRemenakno textures
07:20.35jude-poop
07:20.47DTRemenakcouldn't find a suitable plugin to load png files
07:20.48lan56"you know what?"
07:20.49lan56...
07:20.51lan56no champagne
07:21.09jude-weird
07:21.19jude-try converting to .bmp
07:21.47DTRemenaklooks like osgdb_png is not built by default
07:21.53jude-also weird
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07:31.27DTRemenakmmm...crashy crashy, this time in jude-'s code :)
07:32.02jude-uh oh
07:32.10jude-let me guess
07:32.17DTRemenakselectHandler.cpp:28, this->lastSelected.bzObj == feeefeee; this->lastSelected->getName() is an invalid read
07:32.32jude-I KNEW it
07:32.44jude-I've been looking for that bug for a while now
07:36.29CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14511 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Hopefully this fixes the segfault caused by selectHandler
07:41.17DTRemenakjude-: this->lastSelected is a valid allocation, it just doesn't have an initialized bzObj
07:41.53DTRemenaklastSelected is 0x015cf468, which is well within bzw's address space, and certainly not null :)
07:42.15jude-oh
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07:42.59DTRemenakmy guess is that you're getting something other than what you expect out of NodePath
07:43.07jude-possibly
07:43.08DTRemenakbut I'm not quite sure what all is in there, or what you expect to get
07:43.24jude-heh--NodePath collects EVERY node the click intersects
07:44.58jude-what are you using to trace the crash?
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07:45.13DTRemenakvisual c++
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07:49.07DTRemenakjude-: looks like it's the ground
07:49.23jude-kk
07:50.43DTRemenakhm, or not
07:53.49DTRemenakhm, different crash here now...try double-clicking the same object twice
07:54.17jude-nothing happens
07:54.28DTRemenakI get an invalid write
07:54.51DTRemenakdefault world with two boxes, every time I double click either of the two boxes twice in a row
07:55.28DTRemenaksetSelected(object), object is an invalid pointer
07:55.32jude-I get nothing
07:58.57DTRemenakvalgrind is massively cool
08:02.35jude-quite
08:03.20DTRemenakosg's inheritance trees are really deep :S
08:03.29jude-yup
08:06.17purple_cowI loves me some valgrind
08:06.22purple_cowalso, callgrind+kcachegrind
08:15.46CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14512 10/branches/ftgl/src/ogl/OpenGLGState.cxx: texture mode might not have been enabled in the previous state when it was acquired, but we still need the mode to turn it on regardless.
08:17.47AWOSLappyDTRemenak: pingy
08:20.16CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14513 10/branches/ftgl/src/bzflag/HUDuiControl.cxx: gl_texture_2d needs to be enabled regardless of the state that was saved. helps the cursor be displayed correctly. (merge from trunk while we're at it)
08:26.50AWOSLappybrlcad: what's the difference between cpp and cxx?
08:30.41CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14514 10/branches/ftgl/ (221 files in 110 dirs): merge changes from head/trunk to the ftgl branch (20070711)
08:34.23purple_cowAWOSLappy: not much
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08:35.41jude-DTRemenak: fixed the setSelected bug
08:35.57jude-...at least, Valgrind stopped reporting an error when it was called
08:36.54CIA-3BZFlag: 03judecn * r14515 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Hopefully this eliminates the "double selection" crash
08:40.52jude-looks like OSG devs could put valgrind to use...it's turning up half a dozen errors just by starting up :P
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12:56.15CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14516 10/branches/ftgl/src/other/curl/ (INSTALL lib/): ignore more
12:57.40CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14517 10/branches/ftgl/src/other/freetype/objs/: ignore generated files
13:01.17CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14518 10/branches/ftgl/src/other/freetype/builds/unix/: ignore generated files
13:07.19CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14519 10/branches/ftgl/src/other/freetype/builds/unix/ftconfig.in: revert back to the original template, still need to figure out what actually causes the clobber and how to prevent it
13:13.11CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14520 10/branches/ftgl/src/other/freetype/builds/unix/ (. aclocal.m4 configure): don't ignore the makefile glue
13:15.58CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14521 10/branches/ftgl/src/other/freetype/objs/: ignore anything in here
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13:44.58CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14522 10/branches/ftgl/src/bzflag/ (5 files): tweak font sizes to be closer to what they were (usually about 2x difference), still need to update the other menus
13:53.13CIA-3BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14523 10/branches/ftgl/src/bzflag/HUDuiControl.cxx: line up the menu cursor so that it's directly even with the menu items
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13:55.15brlcadthat just leaves figuring out what went whacky with ansi code parsing..
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14:58.28zerrocoolhallo
14:58.55blast007hi
14:59.34zerrocoolweis nich wo ich die maps speichern mus kannst ma da helfen ???
15:03.02DTRemenakbrlcad: aw, it's not THAT wacky
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15:46.49zerrocoolhi i need help
15:47.28Winnythen ask ;)
15:59.08zerrocooli started a server with another map, but when i want to go in the server there stands error.  What is the problem???
16:00.01WinnyAs I said
16:00.19Winnyyou need to adjust the settings in your configuration files
16:00.28WinnyIE: the group file, the configuration file, the map file...
16:00.35Manuhave you tried the server with no map at first?
16:01.02Manuzerrocool: how do you start the server?
16:01.16zerrocoolwhere is the config. file??
16:01.43Winnyyou tell us....
16:01.47zerrocoolwhih bzflag
16:01.48Manuzerrocool: you need to create it
16:03.08zerrocool<PROTECTED>
16:03.11Manuzerrocool: probably is a good idea to visit the bzflag wiki
16:03.21Manuzerrocool: try this link -> http://my.bzflag.org/w/Creating_A_Server
16:03.37zerrocoolok
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16:32.40ruskiehttp://health.yahoo.com/news/176635 <-- lol
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16:39.35eTangenTruskie... >_<
16:39.45eTangenTsome people are crazy.
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16:52.07AAA_awrightw00t! Nintendo E3 press conference live now!
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17:42.34brlcadDTRemenak: it "went whacky" .. and probably something I did to whack it good
17:42.55brlcader Erroneous even
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17:46.33Erroneousahh
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18:00.00TheRedBaronheheh - http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/10/will-it-blend-the-iphone-smoothie/
18:02.56Macrosoft|SleepTheRedBaron: heh, some people have too much money...
18:03.29Macrosoft|SleepTheRedBaron: iPhone smoothies are too expensive
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18:04.47blast007TheRedBaron: nice
18:06.45quinehaha, i saw that
18:07.06quinei had a feeling that he would do it before :]
18:08.45TheRedBaronHe's a serious nut case
18:09.13TheRedBaronPardon me one more link - http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/21/will-it-blend-novells-it-smoothie-mixes-vista-suse-and-apple/
18:10.29Macrosoft|Sleephmm...carlos slim has passed bill gates on the list of the richest people of the world
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18:11.52tuponeMacrosoft|Sleep, it's an old news, maybe a week ago went to /.
18:12.52Macrosoft|Sleepi just happened to see it in howstuffworks.com, i dont usually read news
18:14.30Macrosoft|SleepTheRedBaron: the end result from that last blend looks like spinach
18:15.05Macrosoft|SleepTheRedBaron: that brand of blender is too tough for its own good
18:17.01Macrosoft|Sleepwow... Slim's net worth minus Gates's net worth is still more than any of us will ever make in our lifetimes... :(
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20:53.15AAA_awrightDoes the bzflag client know if a server can accept global logins when connecting?
20:54.23donny_bakerdon't think so
20:54.41blast007the client sends a token regardless, iirc
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20:55.07AAA_awrightI know the client always requests a global login if a password is entered. Is there any way to determine that through the protocol though?>
20:55.17blast007determine what?
20:55.24blast007if the server will use the token?
20:55.28blast007no
20:55.29AAA_awrightIf you can skip requesting the token.
20:56.03AAA_awrightIs that in 2.1 then?
20:56.08blast007no
20:56.21donny_bakerwhy would it matter to the client?
20:56.22blast007guess I'm not sure why the need is there
20:56.38blast007saves a hit to the list server?
20:56.52AAA_awrightExactly. Someone could also it is more secure.
20:57.13Erroneoushow is it more secure?
20:57.19blast007I would like to see a new handshake for joining a server
20:57.25AAA_awrightIt isn't. Kinda.
20:57.29blast007heh..
20:57.32donny_bakerthe token doesn't contain any part of your password
20:57.55blast007the token is a one-use random string
20:58.04AAA_awrightI know the list server code, it is just mrand()
20:58.07blast007it cannot be used by another user, since we compare the IP
20:58.28AAA_awrightPossibly by someone who has a sniffer on the same subnet.
20:58.34AAA_awrightaka. at a LAN party.
20:58.59blast007:/
20:59.03Thumper_Isn't the token invalidated as soon as it's used? or does it have a 5-minute lifespan or something?
20:59.15AAA_awrightI don't know. blast007?
20:59.18donny_bakerat that point, i'ld get different friends :P
20:59.19ErroneousThumper_: both
20:59.22blast007AAA_awright: so you're worried about the password, not the token
20:59.29AAA_awrightNay, the token.
20:59.33Erroneousat a LAN party you can beat pepole up if they steal your identity :)
20:59.39AAA_awrightTrue.
20:59.41Thumper_Erroneous: lol
20:59.43blast007if they're running a sniffer, they're not going to worry about the token
20:59.48blast007they'll grab the freaking password  :)
20:59.52ErroneousAAA_awright: blast007's point is that if someone's going to sniff, they'll just sniff your password :)
21:00.00AAA_awright(doh)
21:00.29AAA_awrightAnyone ever consider moving the list server to HTTPS?
21:00.32donny_bakerso the password is in plain text? not on ssl?
21:00.39Erroneousdonny_baker: correct
21:00.44ErroneousAAA_awright: yup
21:00.44blast007it used to run HTTPS on the old server
21:00.52blast007however, there was some reason we couldn't on this one
21:00.55Erroneousbzflag itself has never sent the password via https
21:00.57AAA_awrightBZFlag supports SSL?
21:01.00AAA_awrightoh.
21:01.05Erroneousso there was no real point to running the server on https
21:01.08blast007some builds of cURL support SSL
21:01.28Erroneousyes, but we don't use that url anyway.  it would require a special build of curl and a special configuration option
21:01.29blast007Erroneous: when it was on Nid's server, and if you had an SSL cURL, you could use HTTPS for the list
21:01.35blast007yeah
21:02.09AAA_awrightWhich is fine if there are no problems with load?
21:02.27Erroneousthere's no reason we can't set up ssl on m.b.o
21:02.37Erroneousjust nobody's thought it's worth it yet
21:02.38AAA_awrightCertificate?
21:02.49Erroneousself-signing works
21:03.01AAA_awrightTrue. We know bzflag.org belongs to... bzflag.
21:03.17Erroneousespecially if you're going to make it the default method; distribute the signature with bzflag
21:04.21AAA_awrightJust to save one whole connection (which is important). A better idea then challenge-response. Maybe.
21:04.48*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-132-88-104.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)
21:04.53ErroneousAAA_awright: technically it doesn't matter who it belongs to; a man-in-the-middle attack leaves a self-signed site vulnerable unless the client can verify the signature
21:05.16*** join/#bzflag AWOSLappy (n=user@unaffiliated/awosdev)
21:05.43*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-132-88-104.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)
21:05.49AAA_awrightAh.
21:08.29Erroneousi.e. alice is trying to communicate with bob, who has self-signed his certificate.  eve can self-sign an identical certificate and poision alice's dns cache, and alice would be none the wiser unless she can differentiate bob's signature from eve's.  root certificates get around the problem by making sure everyone knows charles' signature, and having charles sign bob's cert.
21:11.34*** join/#bzflag AWOSDev2100 (n=awilcox@unaffiliated/awosdev)
21:11.47TD-Linux2100?
21:11.51TD-Linuxlike warzone 2100?
21:11.57AWOSDev2100no
21:12.03AWOSDev2100like I'm on a Compaq Presario 2100
21:12.21TD-LinuxI just downloaded warzone 2100 two days ago
21:12.37TD-Linuxthis is the first time I've talked on IRC since then
21:12.45AWOSLappyAh.
21:12.49TD-LinuxI'm going to tell the developers how they have ruined my life
21:12.50AAA_awrightgaahh, the Bob/Alice analogy!
21:12.52AWOSLappyI noticed you were absent, TD-Linux.
21:13.02AWOSLappyTD-Linux: you are a blue
21:14.19AWOSLappywhoa
21:14.29AWOSLappy-AWOSLappy- VERSION xchat 2.8.0-1 Windows XP [Intel Pentium 4/1.59GHz]
21:14.45AWOSLappyWHY does it know that, and WHY is that in my version?!
21:14.58TD-Linuxit's in mine too
21:15.09Erroneousthe answer to both questions is "because it wants to"
21:15.20TD-Linux-TD-Linux- VERSION xchat 2.8.2 Linux 2.6.21-1.3228.fc7 [i686/1.13GHz]
21:15.36AWOSLappyErroneous: it is not is yours too
21:15.38AWOSLappyoh
21:15.39TD-Linuxhmm I'm only running at 733 MHz... odd
21:15.41AWOSLappyTD-Linux said that
21:15.50AWOSLappysorry for versioning you :P
21:16.10AWOSLappyTD-Linux: Fedora 7, huh?
21:16.15TD-Linuxyup
21:16.27blast007I'm sorry to hear that
21:16.37AWOSLappyTD-Linux: and wrt 733MHz...easy...HyperPower or whatever the heck Intel calls it
21:17.01AWOSLappyI don't really like this interface
21:17.06blast007I'm waiting for a hard drive company to make 'HyperDrive'
21:17.16TheRedBaron~lart AWOSLappy
21:17.16ibotdrops a baby grand on AWOSLappy
21:17.22AWOSLappy1) it's using a stupid Windows 3.1 font    2) the nicks are all funky    3) it's a gray background
21:17.24*** join/#bzflag Manu (n=jujibo@about/essy/JujiboHunter/Manu)
21:17.24*** mode/#bzflag [+v Manu] by ChanServ
21:17.32AWOSLappynone of which I can find in the Preferences
21:17.39AWOSLappyTheRedBaron: ooh bold
21:17.40*** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ
21:18.16AWOSLappyblast007: hah!  I think there is such a thing
21:18.23blast007heh
21:19.20Erroneoushttp://www.techimo.com/newsapp/index.pl?photo=15385
21:20.27AWOSLappyErroneous: hahaha
21:22.11TheRedBaronhttp://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/05/hyperos_dram_hard_drive_on_the_block/index.html
21:22.18TheRedBaronunplug for reformat?
21:22.27TheRedBaronbest idea yet :)
21:24.13AAA_awrightA new topic: Killer plugins. discuss.
21:25.02*** join/#bzflag Manu (n=jujibo@about/essy/JujiboHunter/Manu)
21:25.02*** mode/#bzflag [+v Manu] by ChanServ
21:25.03AAA_awrightWait... is that a hard drive mad out of RAM?
21:25.31AAA_awrightDang. I thought you had to use flash memory. How fast does it operate?
21:25.47TD-LinuxI've seen those before
21:25.51TD-Linuxthey are ooooooooold
21:25.52AWOSLappyDDR...prolly 500MHz
21:26.50TD-Linux2005 yup
21:26.53AAA_awrightIt keeps it's charge in volatile memory with a bettery. Why not a master-RAM slave-HDD setup?
21:27.16TD-Linux~dict bettery
21:27.20AAA_awrightOoh. It does that too.
21:27.33AAA_awright~dict battery
21:27.49AAA_awrightoh. Right.
21:30.28AAA_awrightGet several of those in RAID0... and wow.  http://images.tomshardware.com/2005/12/05/a_new_dram_hard_drive_on_the_block/image018.gif
21:31.30AAA_awrightWhat killer plugin hasn't been developed yet?
21:32.00AWOSLappyAAA_awright: no cheaters allowed plugin
21:32.14AAA_awrightthat would be an.... anti-killer plugin.
21:32.14blast007hehe
21:32.56blast007a plugin that kicks everyone without at least 5 vowels in their callsign
21:33.07AWOSLappyAWOS
21:33.08AWOSLappyHmm
21:33.12AWOSLappyNot 5 vowels :/
21:33.27AAA_awrighttwo short. Hmm.
21:35.01AWOSLappyhow about a plugin that kickbans anybody that pastes that evil Web site?
21:35.38blast007there's a nice badword list for that
21:35.49blast007just add 'blogspot' to it :)
21:35.50AWOSLappybah
21:35.51AWOSLappyhaha
21:35.56AWOSLappyThis is awesome
21:36.08AAA_awrightIt's interesting to analyse how most bzflag players get a high score: in many short bursts. kill 10, die. wait two minutes. kill 5, die. This is on missle war, though, so you are naturally far away from opposing teams: http://labs.bzfx.net/playergraph/0/146?0.005327979947717609
21:36.09AWOSLappyI have irssi on one monitor and Xchat in another so I can be on two channels at a time
21:37.18AWOSLappyAAA_awright: how do I get one of those for me?!
21:37.26AWOSLappyit would prolly slope the other way though :(
21:37.27AAA_awrightone of what?
21:37.34AWOSLappythe cool graphy thing
21:37.40AAA_awrightlike this? http://labs.bzfx.net/player/148
21:37.55AAA_awrightno, more like this: http://labs.bzfx.net/player/168
21:37.56*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-132-88-104.range81-132.btcentralplus.com)
21:38.27AWOSLappyAAA_awright: Yes.
21:39.20AAA_awrightTell me to monitor a server and I can do so.
21:39.35AAA_awrightI can also show tank positions: http://labs.redjacket.ws/positions.php
21:40.00AAA_awrightAWOSLappy: any servers to do right now?
21:40.13AWOSLappyAAA_awright: I have to go to the bathroom then I'll do hepcat
21:42.43AWOSLappyAAA_awright: starting now.
21:42.53AAA_awrightAWOSLappy: wait
21:43.34awilcoxAAA_awright: I have bzflag up.  borrego.hepcat.org port 5155
21:43.57AAA_awright5155?
21:44.00awilcoxyes
21:44.10AAA_awrightAWOSLappy: logger running on hepcat:5154
21:44.15awilcoxokay
21:44.23awilcoxthen I go to 5154
21:44.27AAA_awrightHepcat :: The Original CTF Overlord by Dutchrai ::?
21:44.56*** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-021-143.ewe-ip-backbone.de)
21:44.58AAA_awrightTo me hepcat means their pilbox server
21:46.25AAA_awrighthttp://labs.bzfx.net/players/borrego.hepcat.org:5154
21:48.21AAA_awright~AAA_awright
21:48.22iboti heard aaa_awright is a PHP Wizard
21:48.42Erroneousmm, that's pretty cool
21:49.26awilcoxI can't see!
21:49.27*** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm)
21:49.30awilcoxmy graphics computer is doing bzflag!
21:52.34AAA_awrightgot links?
21:52.52AWOSLappyNo, I just quit.
21:53.09AAA_awrighthttp://labs.bzfx.net/player/241
21:53.18AAA_awrightonly five minutes?
21:54.44AAA_awrightThere have been 271 sessions on the two servers I have been logging.
21:54.57AAA_awrightThat is, 271 joins
21:56.11AAA_awrightOne time I put a bot on every server with over 5 players on it, and collected data on over 10000 kills. Learned some pretty cool stuff.
21:56.29AAA_awrightI have a spiffy chart somewhere here...
21:56.59AAA_awrighthttp://labs.bzfx.net/png/elo
21:58.45AAA_awrightThat is a graph of how likely you are to kill someone who is better then you. If someone is as good as you, the chance of killing them is 50% (in the dead center of the graph)
21:59.19AAA_awrightBlack line is data collected, red line is the prediction of the Elo algorithm
22:00.18AAA_awrightAWOSLappy: like this player? http://labs.bzfx.net/player/171
22:00.37*** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm)
22:01.32ChestalAAA_awright: hmm, interesting. I am surprised it worked that well. Would have thought that the many unknown players woudl distort it much more
22:03.21AAA_awright:)
22:04.02AAA_awrightOf course, none of the data helps my playing any.
22:11.04AWOSLappyAAA_awright: Hmm.
22:11.10AWOSLappyAAA_awright: Yes, that looks like me :/
22:16.23*** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.ar.comcast.net)
22:16.28jude-hello all
22:21.35CBG~jude-++
22:21.43CBGoh, and HI jude- ;)
22:36.06AAA_awrightWhy does jude- get karma just for entering?
22:36.10AAA_awright~jude-
22:36.10ibotextra, extra, read all about it, jude- is an all around great guy who's working on BZWorkbench as his Google Summer of Code project for BZFlag.  see also #bzflag or http://bzworkbench.wordpress.com/
22:36.32AAA_awright61!?
22:36.48AAA_awrightme -1?
22:36.59AAA_awright>:(
22:37.01jude-I'm a bit confused too...
22:37.16jude-did I deserve that?
22:37.19*** join/#bzflag zeenaa (i=51d053d6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-91a06338d7d080da)
22:37.39jude-the karma, I mean
22:39.41*** part/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Kalen@fl-71-52-16-80.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)
22:40.39Erroneousjude-: regarding the crash...you should probably look at what happens when a selected object is selected again; looks like it gets deallocated.  I'd be pretty surprised if valgrind didn't complain about it (VS crashes)
22:44.44donny_bakerjude-: yes, you deserve it :)... our choices in for map making are poor at best (from a capabilities and/or learning curve), you are changing that
22:45.38jude-heh--hopefully I can eliminate this crash bug :)
22:48.09CBGAAA_awright: 'cause jude- rocks and it making something that's gonna rock and if I keep giving him karma he might let me have his babies
22:49.20*** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
22:49.27AAA_awrightjude-: any pictures to add to the... blog?
22:50.19jude-AAA_awright: I'll put some up when I can get it to stop crashing mysteriously :)  Shouldn't take too long
22:50.33AAA_awrightCool
22:56.24jude-brb--refilling 64-ounce soda
22:56.29jude-mmm....caffeine....
23:00.57spldartcaffeine good
23:02.49AAA_awrightThis one from hepcat is an interesting session: http://labs.bzfx.net/player/269
23:04.32*** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net)
23:11.09AAA_awrightDoes the list server poll or get pushed tank counts?
23:16.16blast007pushed
23:16.20blast007and it blindly accepts
23:16.32blast007it's whatever bzfs tells it
23:20.39*** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com)
23:36.05*** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@about/essy/snick/randomparticle)
23:42.41short_circuitbzzt bzzzzzzzt
23:42.57*** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@about/essy/snick/randomparticle)
23:43.29AAA_awright...
23:43.40Erroneous!!!
23:45.51*** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net)
23:45.56jude-back
23:46.01Constitutionhi jude-
23:47.30Erroneoushowdy jude-
23:47.50jude-Erroneous: I'm scrapping the current Selection system--it sucks, come to think of it
23:48.04Erroneouscool
23:49.21ErroneousI mean, cool that there's something better coming
23:49.30jude-heh
23:50.10jude-the problem I guess is that both the Model and the Selection classes store lists of selected objects, and somehow they get out of sync
23:50.14jude-and there's no way to tell :/
23:50.53jude-no, it *is* cool that I'm scrapping the thing *now* as opposed to *later* when a refactoring would take days :)
23:51.00Erroneoustrue true :)
23:51.34jude-the new Selection will just query the Model for selected objects
23:51.45Erroneous'tis one of the advantages of committing as you go (sidelong glance at Epyon) :)
23:51.51jude-heh
23:52.45jude-it's a good thing you could catch it so early
23:53.11Erroneousthat's what I mean...early peer review results in easier changes than late peer review
23:53.43jude-quite

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