| 00:02.07 | CBG | JeffM2501: ping |
| 00:02.57 | Winny | probably not back from his meeting |
| 00:17.41 | *** join/#bzflag poolio_ (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:23.07 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 00:23.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 00:24.26 | CBG | JeffM2501: re:the ping above. if you get a spare few mins, please let me know the correct syntax for a flagstayzone for the flagstay plugin... either here or a pm on bzbb. thanks. i'll get it tomorrow, hopefully. |
| 00:29.03 | donny_baker | gjet, scamjet... and now his name is charq... http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=111507 |
| 00:30.34 | AWOSLappy | donny_baker: that's "charg" like the battle cry "CHARGE!" |
| 00:30.56 | donny_baker | ah.. well still the same jerk ;) |
| 00:31.02 | Winny | rofl |
| 00:31.27 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@pool-71-255-116-136.cncdnh.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:38.10 | Erroneous | donny_baker: you want to take care of him? |
| 00:38.20 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 00:38.42 | *** join/#bzflag Jefenry (n=jeffreyd@pool-71-241-40-147.nrflva.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:38.43 | Winny | Erroneous: that zee/skater guy was spamming me in PM earlier, should anything be done? |
| 00:38.48 | JeffM2501 | CBG, I don't remember off the top of my head, but I am prety sure one of louman's maps uses it, or you can look at the source |
| 00:39.23 | brlcad | Winny: ask him to not do that .. then add him to your ignore list if he continues |
| 00:39.51 | Winny | but his name always changes since he uses zeebros.net |
| 00:42.18 | donny_baker | CBG: check out TheGauntlet or RoundAbout IIRC |
| 00:47.04 | Winny | wtf? I was banned from BZBB? |
| 00:47.22 | JeffM2501 | were you conencting a lot? |
| 00:47.30 | Winny | uhh, no? |
| 00:47.30 | JeffM2501 | 74.? |
| 00:47.33 | Winny | yup |
| 00:47.43 | Winny | 74.110.116.253, IIRC |
| 00:47.47 | JeffM2501 | one sec |
| 00:47.59 | Erroneous | heh |
| 00:48.05 | Erroneous | bad range to be in at the moment ;) |
| 00:48.11 | JeffM2501 | there ya go |
| 00:48.14 | Thumper_ | Winny: renumber you ip ;) |
| 00:48.16 | JeffM2501 | you looked like a bot |
| 00:48.16 | Winny | yay, thanks |
| 00:48.23 | tannerld | lol |
| 00:48.24 | JeffM2501 | you had a bunch of guest connections |
| 00:48.36 | JeffM2501 | and no login |
| 00:48.38 | Winny | my IP? |
| 00:48.40 | JeffM2501 | yup |
| 00:48.52 | JeffM2501 | only range I baned was 74.6 |
| 00:48.55 | Winny | strange |
| 00:49.09 | JeffM2501 | you set to auto login? |
| 00:49.24 | Winny | yeah, but fomr some reason FF logs me out every few hours |
| 00:49.28 | Winny | for* |
| 00:50.35 | jude- | FF =? Firefox? |
| 00:50.44 | tannerld | yep |
| 00:50.55 | jude- | Winny: try using an IRC client instead :) |
| 00:51.56 | *** join/#bzflag Hannibal_bzf (n=aaronsal@unaffiliated/hannibal) |
| 00:52.32 | JeffM2501 | CBG, re the flag stay zone, IIRC you add a map object called FlatStayZone |
| 00:52.52 | JeffM2501 | and it has a param for the shape |
| 00:53.00 | JeffM2501 | ether the word BBOX or CYLINDER |
| 00:53.21 | JeffM2501 | bbox is a box with minX maxX minY MaxY MinZ MaxZ |
| 00:54.17 | JeffM2501 | cylinder is radius bottomX bottomY bottomZ MaxZ |
| 00:54.28 | JeffM2501 | and then you add the FLAG keyword with the flag code |
| 00:54.42 | JeffM2501 | and MESSAGE for what you want sent when they leave |
| 00:55.50 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 00:55.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 00:57.58 | Winny | hmmm, interesting |
| 00:58.02 | Epyon | hmm |
| 00:58.10 | Epyon | anyone know this data: |
| 00:58.22 | Winny | Im trying to join #bzflag with irssi, and it says I am banned... |
| 00:58.34 | Winny | is this IP like, autobanned or something? :o |
| 00:58.35 | Epyon | 1) heigh in BZW that can be shot OVER from the ground |
| 00:58.46 | Epyon | 2) reasonable height that can be jumped on |
| 00:58.50 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:59.02 | Epyon | 3) height that can't be jumped over no matter what |
| 00:59.20 | Epyon | any place I can find that data? |
| 00:59.31 | jude- | Epyon: trial and error |
| 00:59.41 | Epyon | (except by the obvious experimentation xP) |
| 00:59.42 | JeffM2501 | Epyon, 1ish, 18ish 15ish |
| 01:00.02 | JeffM2501 | sorry 15ish, 18ish |
| 01:00.07 | JeffM2501 | reverse the last 2 :) |
| 01:00.14 | JeffM2501 | 15 is a dooable jump |
| 01:00.20 | JeffM2501 | 18 can be done and is REALY hard |
| 01:00.24 | JeffM2501 | 20 is right out |
| 01:00.33 | Epyon | JeffM2501, hmm, I'll write it now, and test later |
| 01:00.48 | Winny | JeffM2501: ping |
| 01:00.58 | JeffM2501 | IIRC the barrel hight is like 1.25, so 1 is shootable |
| 01:01.08 | JeffM2501 | Winny, I don't know why your banned from IRC, I don't see you in the list |
| 01:01.13 | Winny | weird |
| 01:01.28 | Thumper_ | Epyon: the height (2 and 3) is set by _jumpVelocity I think which defaults to 19 |
| 01:01.29 | JeffM2501 | using tor? |
| 01:01.41 | Winny | nope |
| 01:01.43 | *** join/#bzflag WinnyTest (n=BZ_Win_@74.101.116.253) |
| 01:01.51 | JeffM2501 | see |
| 01:01.52 | Winny | that works, weird. |
| 01:01.55 | JeffM2501 | you root/ |
| 01:02.02 | JeffM2501 | what hostname you using on the banned one? |
| 01:02.06 | Winny | one sec |
| 01:02.11 | Epyon | the rate of my stupid questions asked will rise exponentialy as we near the 9th deadline, so beg me pardon up front :P |
| 01:02.17 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 01:02.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 01:03.34 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal (i=thilo@pdpc/supporter/active/Chestal) |
| 01:03.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ |
| 01:03.54 | *** join/#bzflag Admirarch (i=mwr25@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) |
| 01:05.00 | Winny | JeffM2501: on the banned one: n=root@74.101.116.253 |
| 01:05.16 | JeffM2501 | yeah don't be root |
| 01:05.18 | JeffM2501 | it's stupid |
| 01:05.34 | WinnyTest | yeah, just never logged out :p |
| 01:07.44 | AAA_awright | http://www.google.com/notebook/print?nbid=BDQatSwoQw4i93bMi&hl=en |
| 01:09.12 | *** join/#bzflag WinnyIrssi (n=kyleve@74.101.116.253) |
| 01:09.22 | WinnyIrssi | yay :p |
| 01:09.36 | jude- | AAA_awright: I can't get in :( |
| 01:09.48 | jude- | 500 server error |
| 01:09.59 | jude- | either it was deleted or is unavailable |
| 01:10.01 | a_meteorite | that was top secret BZFX stuff |
| 01:10.07 | AAA_awright | ditto. |
| 01:10.27 | AAA_awright | Say, how is the world editor coming jude- ? |
| 01:10.28 | a_meteorite | it wasn't supposed to be posted here :P |
| 01:10.41 | jude- | AAA_awright: we're getting there |
| 01:11.11 | jude- | the slow part is learning how to use OpenSceneGraph 2.0...which is new enough that the documentation is still lacking :/ |
| 01:11.36 | jude- | ...but what does work, works very well |
| 01:12.47 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 01:12.47 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 01:13.25 | *** join/#bzflag MooMoo (n=MooMoo@12-215-95-126.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:13.29 | MooMoo | Hi |
| 01:14.06 | jude- | hello |
| 01:14.07 | MooMoo | I'm trying to register a BZFlag username, but for some reason it won't let me. Am I not allowed to use spaces? |
| 01:14.18 | MooMoo | Hey Jude |
| 01:14.29 | jude- | I don't think spaces are allowed, IIRC |
| 01:14.44 | a_meteorite | yes they are... |
| 01:14.45 | Winny | yeah they are |
| 01:14.48 | Winny | it may just be taken |
| 01:14.49 | jude- | they are? cool |
| 01:14.52 | Winny | try another name |
| 01:15.08 | a_meteorite | "Moo Moo" would probably be taken |
| 01:15.14 | MooMoo | I've tried several, unless Paris Hilton and anything related is being explicitly blocked :-) |
| 01:15.26 | MooMoo | I've tried Paris Hiltin Pearis Hilton Paris Hiltun, etc. |
| 01:15.31 | a_meteorite | well, spaces are definitely useable |
| 01:15.33 | MooMoo | I've also tried all of those without spaces. |
| 01:15.36 | a_meteorite | that speaks mountains itself |
| 01:16.06 | Winny | everyone hates paris hilton, don't use it :p |
| 01:16.12 | jude- | heh |
| 01:16.44 | MooMoo | I've already used it quite a bit. I play in BZFlag 'as' Paris Hilton. People thought it was funny, so I thought I'd register the name. |
| 01:17.00 | a_meteorite | her name is probably taken |
| 01:18.04 | *** join/#bzflag MooMoo (n=MooMoo@12-215-95-126.client.mchsi.com) |
| 01:18.05 | MooMoo | Hmm... okay, but I've tried around twelve misspelled variations :-) |
| 01:18.28 | Winny | the anwser is obvious |
| 01:18.31 | a_meteorite | hmm, well, I can tell you with certainty, spaces are allowed (I have spaces and many others do) |
| 01:18.36 | Winny | phpBB hatres her. |
| 01:19.00 | MooMoo | Winny: lol |
| 01:19.15 | Epyon | How cool that Epyon wasn't taken :> |
| 01:19.33 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-164-151.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 01:20.44 | jude- | woohoo! BZWB *finally* can tell when a 3D object was double-clicked! |
| 01:21.01 | Winny | ~jude-++ |
| 01:22.22 | a_meteorite | gah, bzbb is being slow.. |
| 01:22.33 | jude- | ~speedup bzbb |
| 01:23.32 | Winny | ~speedup $1 is <action> glues some racing wheels to $1 and watches $1 burn some rubber |
| 01:23.33 | ibot | Winny: okay |
| 01:23.41 | Winny | ~speedup BZBB |
| 01:23.42 | ibot | ACTION glues some racing wheels to BZBB and watches BZBB burn some rubber |
| 01:23.51 | jude- | there we go :) |
| 01:23.52 | AWOSLappy | :) |
| 01:24.00 | Winny | :) |
| 01:24.36 | *** join/#bzflag kyleve (n=kyleve@74.101.116.253) |
| 01:27.31 | DTRemenak|RDP | heh |
| 01:27.41 | DTRemenak | MooMoo: you should be able to register now |
| 01:28.34 | MooMoo | DT: Thanks! |
| 01:29.16 | MooMoo | Uh oh... :-P "You have exceeded the number of registration attempts for this session. Please try again later." |
| 01:29.28 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:29.31 | DTRemenak | not entirely sure what whoever put that one in was thinking... disallowed the letters "s h i t" in that order, regardless of intermediate letters :) |
| 01:29.41 | MooMoo | :-) |
| 01:30.08 | jude- | lol |
| 01:30.12 | Winny | haha |
| 01:30.12 | AWOSLappy | lol |
| 01:30.17 | Winny | a hidden message |
| 01:30.18 | Winny | :p |
| 01:30.26 | DTRemenak | 'twould catch lots of innocents, like "ssh, I'm hunting rabbits" |
| 01:30.27 | AWOSLappy | pariS HIlTon |
| 01:30.32 | MooMoo | That happens to me once in awhile on servers too. It censors me when I say the most innocent things. |
| 01:30.44 | AWOSLappy | DTRemenak: :P |
| 01:31.14 | AWOSLappy | front page is censored on alachua.homelinux.net |
| 01:31.38 | AWOSLappy | must not think highly of ms office :P |
| 01:32.04 | kyleve | hehe |
| 01:33.48 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@66.135.114.72) |
| 01:33.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 01:33.55 | AWOSLappy | Winny and Winno |
| 01:34.01 | Winno | :p |
| 01:34.14 | Winno | trying to come up with two names |
| 01:34.25 | jude-|AFK | look everyone! no hands! |
| 01:34.31 | AWOSLappy | haha |
| 01:34.52 | Winno | hehe |
| 01:47.37 | *** join/#bzflag kyleve (n=kyleve@74.101.116.253) |
| 01:54.02 | *** join/#bzflag kyleve (n=kyleve@74.101.116.253) |
| 02:00.57 | *** join/#bzflag nn-laptop (n=knoppix@74.94.43.195) |
| 02:01.01 | nn-laptop | brad? |
| 02:02.53 | nn-laptop | the userbin.net server droped all the gaming stuff last night when the inertnet went out please restart your server |
| 02:03.19 | nn-laptop | linuxmain.net seems to be fine though |
| 02:03.41 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 02:04.04 | nn-laptop | the cable was struck by lightinig blowing out a major amp! |
| 02:04.23 | nn-laptop | that is what caused the failer of userbin.net |
| 02:16.02 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:4cb1:b40f:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 02:16.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 02:16.02 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Kalen@fl-71-49-6-126.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 02:16.52 | TheRedBaron | brlcad, JeffM: Live Free or Die hard is a go. Good movie |
| 02:23.47 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-24-32-46-104.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 02:24.54 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: saw it yesterday |
| 02:25.16 | brlcad | I loved it |
| 02:28.30 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-106-78.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 02:28.33 | brlcad | i particularly liked all the locations, since they're all so close and familiar .. the SSA buildings in Woodlawn, the warehouses near the cranes downtown, mt. washington, ... good stuff :) |
| 02:28.47 | spldart | Today IS a good day to die! |
| 02:30.13 | Epyon | spldart, sure! |
| 02:30.16 | brlcad | knowing the locations was actually kinda funny a couple times .. like them getting stuck in traffic near the beginning.. they were driving through the heart of mid-town baltimore .. |
| 02:31.21 | brlcad | they were on their way to DC.. that is SO out of the way from their southbound route .. I95 feeds right in to DC, they would have just stayed on it :) |
| 02:31.31 | spldart | :).... missle war then hepcat and a last hazzah in two castles |
| 03:33.56 | AWOSLappy | nn-laptop: the cable was struck by LIGHTNING? |
| 03:34.08 | AWOSLappy | as in, the cable going from your modem to the cable co...was struck...by LIGHTNING? |
| 03:35.04 | JeffM | the outside lines can get hit |
| 03:35.09 | JeffM | it's common in the wet states |
| 03:37.13 | brlcad | happens rather frequently in some places .. just about every piece of equipment in my place is on a surge protector or a UPS |
| 03:37.36 | L4m3r | so, what exactly is the best way to make bzfs and libIRC work together? |
| 03:37.48 | JeffM | code |
| 03:37.54 | brlcad | i get about a dozen "minor surges" a day most days, way worse if it's stormy |
| 03:38.10 | L4m3r | JeffM: >_< |
| 03:38.15 | JeffM | just make sure you call the update each loop |
| 03:38.18 | JeffM | and it'll be fine |
| 03:38.28 | brlcad | mm duct tape |
| 03:38.37 | AWOSLappy | brlcad: florida power & light right? |
| 03:38.42 | JeffM | if winsock is inited, it should still work |
| 03:38.45 | L4m3r | I mean, do we write it in as a dependency? do we include i with the game? do we just roll the source into ours? |
| 03:38.46 | nn-laptop | AWOSLappy, um my cable was surg protected but nothing blue it was a amp est 1 or 2 mile away that blue |
| 03:38.47 | JeffM | and it'll manage it's own sockets |
| 03:38.50 | AWOSLappy | brlcad: oh wait, no, that's too good quality to be fpl |
| 03:38.55 | nn-laptop | when struck |
| 03:39.01 | AWOSLappy | nn-laptop: ah |
| 03:39.04 | JeffM | L4m3r, as always I'll say plug-in :) |
| 03:39.18 | AWOSLappy | wait |
| 03:39.19 | AWOSLappy | omg |
| 03:39.22 | JeffM | nn-laptop, the color blue? |
| 03:39.40 | JeffM | your god has nothing to do with IRC |
| 03:39.53 | L4m3r | JeffM: you don't know that |
| 03:39.58 | L4m3r | :P |
| 03:40.00 | AWOSLappy | JeffM: lol |
| 03:40.01 | JeffM | yes I do :) |
| 03:40.04 | brlcad | AWOSLappy: nope, not in FL |
| 03:40.13 | AWOSLappy | brlcad: where? |
| 03:40.18 | L4m3r | so, yeah, obviously there's code to play with |
| 03:40.20 | nn-laptop | Py |
| 03:40.23 | nn-laptop | PA |
| 03:40.27 | L4m3r | but I'm not sure about how it should be distributed |
| 03:40.40 | brlcad | L4m3r: that's an integration detail you probably don't need to worry about at this point :) |
| 03:40.45 | JeffM | L4m3r, probalby have it keep a copy in the misc stuff if you want, cus few distros include it |
| 03:40.48 | brlcad | if you use it, it'll be provided "somehow" |
| 03:41.08 | nn-laptop | im considirabally near the trans atlantic internet cabled which is really cool |
| 03:41.21 | brlcad | heck if you use it, you'll likely need to make mods too :) |
| 03:41.46 | brlcad | good, I was just looking :) |
| 03:41.48 | L4m3r | thanks DTRemenak! :P |
| 03:42.06 | L4m3r | and another thought |
| 03:42.13 | JeffM | it dosn't even use sdlnet anymore :) |
| 03:42.37 | L4m3r | Tim had made a note about preserving the simplicity of server setup for, say, LAN purposes |
| 03:43.11 | AWOSLappy | IRC is such a simple protocol |
| 03:43.18 | nn-laptop | y |
| 03:43.27 | L4m3r | as the public setup becomes more complex, I'm starting to wonder if we should add a configure option to enable all the public server features |
| 03:43.27 | AWOSLappy | you can't tell me you'll have multiple channels, so you just have to join and then parse the messages |
| 03:43.36 | AWOSLappy | ACTION would be the big headache I guess, if you could call it that |
| 03:43.46 | brlcad | L4m3r: you mean like -public? :) |
| 03:43.57 | L4m3r | no, a CONFIGURE option :P |
| 03:44.35 | L4m3r | i.e. #ifdef all the public/list server junk out in the default distro and post public server binaries separately |
| 03:44.56 | L4m3r | or let them roll their own, obviously |
| 03:45.04 | L4m3r | ./configure --enable-public |
| 03:45.06 | JeffM | not a horible idea |
| 03:45.57 | *** join/#bzflag dcat_ (n=dcat@pdpc/supporter/active/dcat) |
| 03:46.00 | L4m3r | not exactly a critical thing for what I'm doing, but, you know, down the road and all |
| 03:46.24 | brlcad | huh |
| 03:46.24 | brlcad | we don't have many/any compile-time configuration options for the server other than plugins, no? |
| 03:46.24 | brlcad | run-time configurability is better imo |
| 03:46.38 | brlcad | bzfs probably deserves it's own data dir at this point and make plugins bundled |
| 03:47.09 | L4m3r | if it were not for the mess it would create, I would recommend distributing bzflag and bzfs separately |
| 03:47.27 | JeffM | debian does that now |
| 03:47.28 | brlcad | i don't see what that option gets you, though, other than uncertainty as to which type of binary you have without poking/running it |
| 03:47.32 | L4m3r | but given the amount of shared code and stuffs... nah |
| 03:47.59 | L4m3r | brlcad: not having to deal with unnecessary dependencies, primarily |
| 03:48.16 | L4m3r | again, not a big deal for libIRC |
| 03:48.30 | brlcad | dependencies are just build-time issues, and very minor at that -- you deal with them only once usually |
| 03:48.34 | nn-laptop | well y but to to get bzadmin you need to install the server which is not the best |
| 03:49.33 | brlcad | and with the bundling we have, external users don't *have* to really deal with them at all |
| 03:49.47 | brlcad | they're used if needed, left alone otherwise |
| 03:50.10 | L4m3r | I suppose |
| 03:50.32 | L4m3r | perhaps I am too far into the mindset of those who have to compile their clients/servers/etc |
| 03:51.30 | brlcad | that's the purpose of the bundling in src/other -- so they don't have to care/know |
| 03:52.00 | brlcad | if it's a packaging system, it can do whatever it wants, forcing deps to build or not |
| 03:52.47 | brlcad | those on the outside will just compile, and if it finds that it needs libXXX and doesn't autodetect XXX's availability, then compilation of XXX is enabled and the build proceeds to the users' bliss |
| 04:17.20 | spldart | oooOOOoo ooooo |
| 04:17.57 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-76-106-124-125.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 04:18.23 | spldart | delayed reaction.... My cable was hit twice... lightling jumped though my server... it died a brilliant death... holes were cut through conductors on the boards and everything... The grass was dead along the entire burried cable line and everything |
| 04:18.47 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 04:18.47 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 04:26.21 | *** join/#bzflag kyleve (n=kyleve@74.101.116.253) |
| 04:28.36 | *** part/#bzflag kyleve (n=kyleve@74.101.116.253) |
| 04:45.55 | awilcox586 | short_circuit: wowsers |
| 04:47.57 | short_circuit | spldart does now |
| 04:52.10 | short_circuit | when my batteries died... I went to the local wholsaler and put much bigger ones on the circuit NEXT to the ups's LOLOL |
| 04:52.19 | short_circuit | In a shoe box LO(L |
| 04:52.51 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa|AFK (n=Deepa@abused.armchairs.be) |
| 04:53.27 | jude- | I can top that |
| 04:54.48 | TheRedBaron | oh? |
| 04:54.52 | jude- | a friend of my family in Illinois took the best precautions: unplug the computer, and move it (and components) to the CENTER of the room (i.e. away from all the outlets). Lightening hit the house, shot through the electrical outlet, across the rug (setting it ablaze), and slamming into the computer equipment, causing it to literally explode |
| 04:55.20 | AWOSLappy | jude-: roflwaffle |
| 04:55.29 | jude- | they were PISSED |
| 04:55.35 | AWOSLappy | THAT is an example of God pwning everybody |
| 04:55.52 | DTRemenak | goodness, haven't these people ever heard of lightning rods? |
| 04:56.10 | jude- | guess not :P |
| 04:56.51 | jude- | rewire the electrical system: $500. New computer: $1200. New rugs: $125 per square foot. Learning to use lightening rods: priceless |
| 04:57.38 | *** join/#bzflag the_j0k3r (n=pizza_ma@124.188.228.236) |
| 04:57.50 | AWOSLappy | jude-: wait, it wasn't even plugged IN!? |
| 04:57.55 | jude- | nope |
| 04:57.58 | jude- | nothing was |
| 04:58.02 | jude- | in the entire room |
| 04:58.04 | AWOSLappy | it was just acting as a lightning room?! |
| 04:58.05 | AWOSLappy | er |
| 04:58.07 | AWOSLappy | rod!? |
| 04:58.21 | AWOSLappy | that would thoroughly suck :P |
| 04:58.36 | jude- | the bolt hit the house directly, entered the electrical system, shot out of an outlet, zipped across the rug, and hit the computer |
| 04:58.48 | AWOSLappy | shot OUT of an outlet? |
| 04:58.52 | jude- | what are the odds? |
| 04:58.54 | jude- | yup |
| 04:59.00 | AWOSLappy | did you see this in person? or are they pulling your leg? |
| 04:59.00 | jude- | I wish I had asked for pictures |
| 04:59.05 | jude- | no |
| 04:59.14 | jude- | we were shown the burnt out computer parts, though |
| 04:59.19 | AWOSLappy | wows |
| 04:59.36 | jude- | well, what was left of them :P |
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| 05:15.12 | jude- | why? |
| 05:15.20 | jude- | it's the best object orientation C can offer :P |
| 05:16.06 | L4m3r | oh, sure |
| 05:16.14 | L4m3r | but this is C++ code |
| 05:16.16 | L4m3r | :P |
| 05:16.35 | purple_cow | so fix it |
| 05:16.39 | L4m3r | ~spell handaler |
| 05:16.47 | L4m3r | >_< |
| 05:16.47 | purple_cow | hehe, JeffM code |
| 05:16.52 | L4m3r | yup... |
| 05:17.00 | L4m3r | :P |
| 05:19.25 | *** join/#bzflag tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:20.04 | JeffM | you'll live :) |
| 05:20.09 | L4m3r | heh |
| 05:20.09 | L4m3r | hellp tofu |
| 05:20.21 | L4m3r | hello* |
| 05:20.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ |
| 05:20.32 | *** join/#bzflag jude-_ (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) |
| 05:20.36 | brlcad | yes, help tofu :) |
| 05:20.53 | jude-_ | L4m3r: lost the last 1.5 minutes. Did you respond? |
| 05:20.56 | L4m3r | eww, tofu |
| 05:21.02 | L4m3r | respond to what? |
| 05:21.05 | jude-_ | nm |
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| 05:21.23 | L4m3r | [22:16] <jude-> it's the best object orientation C can offer :P |
| 05:21.29 | L4m3r | that's the last thing I heard from you |
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| 05:21.54 | jude- | kk |
| 05:22.07 | jude- | that was the last thing I said |
| 05:22.14 | JeffM | jude-, left |
| 05:22.18 | JeffM | that is the best orientaion |
| 05:22.45 | jude- | left orientation? |
| 05:22.55 | JeffM | yes |
| 05:23.12 | jude- | under what circumstances? |
| 05:23.17 | JeffM | what exactly is your question? |
| 05:23.24 | JeffM | what you can do with objects and normal C? |
| 05:24.02 | jude- | I was wondering (hoping, really) that there would be a better answer for L4m3r |
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| 05:24.22 | L4m3r | not a big deal, just ugly in my humble opinion |
| 05:24.29 | jude- | heh |
| 05:24.41 | JeffM | oh I just do the typedef out of habbit |
| 05:24.41 | jude- | think of it as a class with all public members :) |
| 05:24.46 | JeffM | you probalby don't need them |
| 05:24.47 | L4m3r | and it's in a libIRC example, not a major issue to begin with |
| 05:24.50 | JeffM | or you can class them |
| 05:24.55 | JeffM | if you need to |
| 05:25.15 | L4m3r | I just think the typedef format is ugly |
| 05:25.20 | brlcad | the "best object orientation C can offer"? |
| 05:25.25 | JeffM | typedef struct is the same number of words as class public: :) |
| 05:25.31 | jude- | lol |
| 05:25.36 | jude- | that didn't occur to me |
| 05:25.38 | JeffM | you just have the name at the end, not the start |
| 05:25.40 | JeffM | whopty do |
| 05:25.50 | L4m3r | yes, which is annoying for the reader :P |
| 05:25.58 | JeffM | you can put it at the star too |
| 05:26.11 | brlcad | the original implementation of Objective-C was a bunch of preprocessor magic .. and that gave you some pretty funky syntax in comparison along with a full-fledged object-oriented system |
| 05:26.15 | JeffM | public class em if you want |
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| 05:26.24 | JeffM | should not be hard |
| 05:26.33 | L4m3r | I'm only trying to read it :) |
| 05:26.39 | jude- | JeffM: typedef struct and class public: differ in number of characters by 1 :) |
| 05:26.52 | JeffM | I didn't say characters |
| 05:26.54 | JeffM | I said words :) |
| 05:26.57 | jude- | I know |
| 05:27.00 | jude- | I'm adding to that :) |
| 05:27.16 | JeffM | if I need a contstructor I usualy class em |
| 05:27.31 | brlcad | L4m3r: usually only annoying for readers that aren't exposed to it much |
| 05:27.43 | brlcad | most things annoying become less and less annoying with exposure and familiarity :P |
| 05:27.57 | brlcad | with the exception of people sometimes ;) |
| 05:28.20 | L4m3r | so by the time I'm done playing with BZFlag, I'll be able to read... Perl? |
| 05:28.39 | L4m3r | I'll be ready to grade Computer Science AP exams? |
| 05:28.43 | *** join/#bzflag catay (n=smertens@kaiya.catay.be) |
| 05:28.44 | L4m3r | :P |
| 05:28.44 | brlcad | nah, that takes extra training |
| 05:29.23 | jude- | IIRC, AP graders must be teachers as well |
| 05:29.42 | jude- | or professors |
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| 05:33.31 | L4m3r | man, freenode is splitting like my hair tonight :P |
| 05:33.41 | jude- | ya |
| 05:33.52 | L4m3r | and I haven't had it cut in two years! |
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| 05:33.59 | jude- | O.o |
| 05:34.02 | jude- | how long is it? |
| 05:34.18 | L4m3r | longest parts are... whoa... |
| 05:34.35 | TheRedBaron | ~chase L4m3r with scissors |
| 05:34.36 | ibot | ACTION chases L4m3r with scissors |
| 05:35.11 | L4m3r | upper-mid back. |
| 05:35.31 | L4m3r | the lowest hairs are about level with the height of my armpits. |
| 05:35.45 | jude- | wow |
| 05:36.02 | *** join/#bzflag jude-__ (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net) |
| 05:36.03 | L4m3r | helps hide the melon head |
| 05:37.44 | jude- | huh |
| 05:37.53 | jude- | I have two nicks |
| 05:38.00 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
| 05:38.03 | jude- | simultaneously |
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| 06:12.28 | The_RIAA | MWAHAHAHA |
| 06:12.40 | jude- | lol |
| 06:12.46 | The_RIAA | ALL BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP MY LOBBYISTS |
| 06:13.08 | The_RIAA | DMCA WILL GET YOU |
| 06:13.10 | jude- | ...er...Mexico (closer :P) |
| 06:13.16 | The_RIAA | oh. Crap. |
| 06:14.28 | The_RIAA | I'll pay congress to legalize that... later... |
| 06:14.36 | jude- | lol |
| 06:14.42 | The_RIAA | but not before confiscating your estate |
| 06:14.52 | jude- | when will they learn that DRM has failed before it left the factory? :) |
| 06:15.17 | The_RIAA | DRM OWNS YOUR SOUL |
| 06:15.20 | The_RIAA | and mine, too |
| 06:15.30 | jude- | if the data contains the encryption key and the playback device contains the decypher algorithm, it's only a matter of time before the decryption sequence will be discovered |
| 06:15.52 | jude- | also, if it were perfect DRM, how would we even know the data exists if we couldn't read it? |
| 06:16.07 | The_RIAA | Who cares? it's not about legit protection |
| 06:16.20 | The_RIAA | we just need to sue college students to make up for declining record sales |
| 06:16.26 | jude- | lol |
| 06:16.37 | jude- | and not even a single penny goes to the original artists :( |
| 06:16.38 | The_RIAA | which are caused by piracy and, uh, our tendency to sue college students... |
| 06:17.08 | jude- | ~lart The_RIAA |
| 06:17.08 | ibot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps The_RIAA |
| 06:17.17 | jude- | too weak |
| 06:17.22 | jude- | ~shoot The_RIAA |
| 06:17.26 | ibot | ACTION shoots The_RIAA in the foot with a phase pistol! |
| 06:17.50 | jude- | isn't "L4m3r" registered to you? |
| 06:17.57 | L4m3r | yes |
| 06:18.08 | L4m3r | but L4m3r is in use |
| 06:18.21 | jude- | then who is L4m3r_? |
| 06:18.28 | L4m3r_ | me! |
| 06:18.54 | L4m3r_ | file* |
| 06:19.17 | brlcad | ~lart both of them for distracting each other :) |
| 06:19.17 | ibot | blasts both of them to oblivion with a kamehameha wave for distracting each other :) |
| 06:20.15 | L4m3r_ | heh |
| 06:20.23 | L4m3r_ | we are on our way to bed :) |
| 06:22.52 | jude- | we? |
| 06:24.23 | L4m3r_ | L4m3r and I :P |
| 06:24.26 | brlcad | holding hands I hope |
| 06:25.06 | L4m3r_ | heh |
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| 07:21.12 | CBG | JeffM: thanks for flagstayzone syntax |
| 07:24.17 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14425 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (11 files in 7 dirs): |
| 07:24.17 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: We're close to something remotely useful now. You can double-click the |
| 07:24.18 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: boxes in the scene and they will tint green to become selected. |
| 07:24.18 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: Double-clicking them again will deselect them (i.e. return them to their |
| 07:24.18 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: original state). |
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| 12:56.37 | donny_baker | ~ts++ |
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| 13:35.28 | *** join/#bzflag LeGeeko (n=jonathan@usrw-36.mw.kconline.com) |
| 13:36.19 | LeGeeko | I need a tiny bit of help with the BZFS software |
| 13:37.09 | donny_baker | ask away |
| 13:39.01 | LeGeeko | I tried to create my own world file, but BZFS will not take the '-world "/path/to/world.bzw"' option |
| 13:39.14 | donny_baker | do you get an error? |
| 13:39.29 | LeGeeko | Not usuallly |
| 13:39.39 | LeGeeko | it simply won't start |
| 13:40.11 | LeGeeko | There's no other server running at the time |
| 13:40.15 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@88-104-217-0.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 13:40.31 | delusional_ | are you using a -conf file. |
| 13:40.35 | donny_baker | so when you try and connect to it with your client it says it's not there? |
| 13:40.45 | LeGeeko | No, it refuses those too |
| 13:40.56 | randomparticle | nptd clock adjustments can affect bzflag timing |
| 13:40.57 | delusional_ | try removing the quotes |
| 13:41.03 | LeGeeko | The server simply will not run |
| 13:41.05 | randomparticle | are there any workarounds for this? |
| 13:41.37 | donny_baker | LeGeeko: how are you determining that it refuses to run? |
| 13:42.41 | LeGeeko | I have a launcher on my desk. The command for it is "bzfs -world /path/to/world.bzw" |
| 13:43.03 | LeGeeko | When I click it, the window flashes on screen and then it's gone |
| 13:43.20 | LeGeeko | It's also not a running process |
| 13:43.21 | Winny | windows batch file? |
| 13:43.22 | donny_baker | what OS? have you tried running it from the command prompt so you can see the errors |
| 13:43.34 | LeGeeko | Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 13:43.40 | Winny | oh.. darn |
| 13:43.52 | donny_baker | my guess is windows, and the prompt is closing before you can read the errors |
| 13:43.57 | donny_baker | oh |
| 13:44.01 | Winny | :p |
| 13:44.16 | LeGeeko | Yes, that's what's happening |
| 13:44.17 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:44.52 | donny_baker | ok, same thing, run it from a command propmt and the errors will stay so that you can read them |
| 13:45.14 | LeGeeko | Ok, here's the errors: |
| 13:45.34 | LeGeeko | /Desktop/Stuff/ug.bzw: error: could not find bzflag world file |
| 13:45.34 | LeGeeko | /Desktop/Stuff/ug.bzw: error: unexpected EOF |
| 13:45.34 | LeGeeko | /Desktop/Stuff/ug.bzw: error: world file failed to load. |
| 13:45.35 | LeGeeko | ERROR: A world was not specified |
| 13:46.23 | LeGeeko | BTW ug.bzw was created with Blender if that helps any |
| 13:46.24 | Winny | specify the full path? |
| 13:46.30 | donny_baker | ok... is the path to your world file correct |
| 13:46.47 | randomparticle | is 'Desktop' relative to your home directory? |
| 13:47.08 | LeGeeko | Yes - ug.bzw IS in the /Desktop/stuff, and yes, its relative to my home dir |
| 13:47.24 | Winny | try typing the full file path |
| 13:47.32 | LeGeeko | OK |
| 13:47.41 | randomparticle | would it work with '~'? |
| 13:48.04 | randomparticle | i.e.: ~//Desktop/Stuff/ug.bzw |
| 13:48.08 | randomparticle | ops |
| 13:48.19 | randomparticle | ~/Desktop/Stuff/ug.bzw |
| 13:49.08 | LeGeeko | Thanks, it works now! |
| 13:49.18 | LeGeeko | Thank you very much! |
| 13:49.46 | randomparticle | you're welcome |
| 13:50.01 | LeGeeko | Bye |
| 13:51.17 | Winny | in/if |
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| 13:53.29 | daxxar | Weddings are one of those events where *EVERYONE* who's even REMOTELY related get stressed out |
| 13:55.47 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Kalen@fl-71-49-6-126.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 13:56.08 | randomparticle | Your 'nick' collided |
| 13:56.25 | randomparticle | the T is slightly dented, but it'll be ok |
| 13:56.49 | Winny | randomparricle :o |
| 13:58.41 | TheRedBaron | randomparticle: help me straighten it? |
| 14:04.17 | Winny | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11066 Someone delete that please |
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| 15:10.10 | zee941 | hi |
| 15:10.16 | zee941 | gf |
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| 15:12.58 | zee141 | hi |
| 15:13.04 | randomparticle | hi |
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| 15:21.45 | CIA-3 | opencombat: 03jeffm2501 * 10GPx01/GPLib/ (3 files in 3 dirs): add an app that has a gui manager |
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| 15:24.13 | scott | Pommes! |
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| 15:57.57 | randomparticle | is the core duo time stamp counter affected by ntpd clock setting? |
| 15:59.21 | randomparticle | i'm thinking of replacing the gettimeofday call |
| 16:06.07 | Chestal | as far as I understand it, it's basically a CPU internal clock counter |
| 16:06.51 | Chestal | I don't understand how it wrks with respect to frequency changes and multiple cores, though |
| 16:07.27 | Chestal | I would assume it is documented in VC++ documentation or somewhere? |
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| 16:48.18 | jftsang | what happened to calypso's wrath server? |
| 16:48.26 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@88-104-217-0.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:48.30 | JeffM | locusts |
| 16:48.33 | JeffM | it was horrile |
| 16:48.38 | jftsang | :P |
| 16:49.45 | randomparticle | is any work being done on improving timing for OS X? |
| 16:51.08 | JeffM | the beter question is, "does any developer have a timing problem on OSX and are they working on fixing it " :) |
| 16:51.21 | randomparticle | ok :) |
| 16:51.35 | randomparticle | the problem might be considered too trivial to solve |
| 16:51.46 | JeffM | we don't do asignments |
| 16:51.55 | JeffM | if you have a fix, submit it |
| 16:52.07 | randomparticle | am working on something that just works for me |
| 16:52.18 | randomparticle | i don't have the skills for a more general solution |
| 16:52.33 | JeffM | what is the change? |
| 16:52.59 | randomparticle | to get rid of the gettimeofday call and query the time stamp register |
| 16:53.12 | randomparticle | i'm not sure if it'll work |
| 16:53.15 | delusional_ | you might also think about synchronising the timing between worldweapons and drawinfo-LOD objects that move. I'f you like.. I have a very nice map to test that. |
| 16:53.19 | JeffM | does it return the same type of time? |
| 16:53.28 | randomparticle | not sure |
| 16:53.54 | randomparticle | the problem, as you may recall, is that adjustments to the system clock during gameplay can throw out calculations |
| 16:54.11 | randomparticle | i'm not sure if such adjustments also affect that register |
| 16:54.21 | JeffM | isn't there a QPC type thing on the mac? |
| 16:54.51 | TheRedBaron | and would it differ between PPC and Intel ? |
| 16:54.56 | randomparticle | i don't know of function that provides the functionality (which is not to say it doesn't exist) |
| 16:55.21 | randomparticle | but it doesn't seem that hard to write a bit of inline assembly to get the register contents |
| 16:55.38 | JeffM | you should do the reserch |
| 16:56.02 | randomparticle | i have to point out, it's even worse under windows |
| 16:56.17 | JeffM | windows uses QPC and shoudl run fine |
| 16:56.18 | randomparticle | the problems with tanks travelling at 20X normal speed etc don't occur under OS X |
| 16:56.31 | randomparticle | and that's something to do with QPC, i understand |
| 16:56.33 | JeffM | once you get the OS to be dual core awware |
| 16:57.06 | JeffM | we recheck the QPC frequency now |
| 16:57.12 | JeffM | and update when it changes |
| 16:57.13 | randomparticle | assuming your windows version of bzflag gets that far without crashing :) |
| 16:57.19 | JeffM | yeah |
| 16:57.23 | JeffM | runs fine |
| 16:57.46 | randomparticle | while i'm having a dig at windows.. why is it that crashes are so common with windows versions of the game? |
| 16:57.58 | JeffM | I've never noticed one |
| 16:58.10 | JeffM | over half our users use windows |
| 16:58.16 | randomparticle | i ask people what OS they're using when they crash. it happens very often in matches |
| 16:58.23 | randomparticle | they always say windows |
| 16:58.40 | JeffM | that's cus most players play on windows |
| 16:58.40 | JeffM | dosn't mean it's a WINDOWS bug |
| 16:58.47 | JeffM | tho many probalby have crap drivers |
| 16:58.55 | JeffM | but this isn't the place to start an OS war |
| 16:58.57 | randomparticle | but still, always windows, and very common. never linux or OS X |
| 16:59.06 | JeffM | OSX crashes a lot too |
| 16:59.07 | TheRedBaron | um |
| 16:59.35 | randomparticle | why do none of our OS X or linux match players have crashes? |
| 16:59.49 | randomparticle | as i said, i do ask people what OS they're using if they crash |
| 16:59.58 | randomparticle | unless i already know what OS they're using |
| 17:00.08 | JeffM | because you probalby have like 2 OSX players |
| 17:00.12 | randomparticle | no |
| 17:00.15 | randomparticle | several |
| 17:00.22 | JeffM | ok, 4 |
| 17:00.26 | Constitution | I play on OS X, and do experience crashes |
| 17:00.32 | randomparticle | i would say it's more like 10 |
| 17:00.38 | JeffM | OOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 17:00.39 | JeffM | wow 10 |
| 17:00.58 | randomparticle | but nearly all the windows users seem to have crashes |
| 17:01.07 | JeffM | ok fine |
| 17:01.08 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A50DD7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:01.17 | JeffM | yeah we put in code to make it crash |
| 17:01.20 | randomparticle | not quite all, but nearly all |
| 17:01.31 | JeffM | what answer are you looking for? |
| 17:01.41 | JeffM | or are you just here to thump your chest? |
| 17:01.55 | randomparticle | well, i'm just wondering why windows is so much more crash prone. it's a genuine question |
| 17:02.04 | JeffM | we say it's not |
| 17:02.13 | JeffM | you refute that statement |
| 17:02.18 | JeffM | so therefore there is no answer |
| 17:02.25 | randomparticle | come and match with us and you might have a different opinion :) |
| 17:02.27 | JeffM | I've seen lots of crashes on OSX |
| 17:02.38 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 17:02.44 | JeffM | I'm not saying that there are NOT crashes on windows |
| 17:02.54 | JeffM | I'm just saying I don't see them as being more often then other OSs |
| 17:02.57 | randomparticle | quite often we have to wait for 5 minutes while a player reboots windows |
| 17:02.59 | JeffM | if anything it would be crap drivers |
| 17:03.11 | JeffM | if there OS dies, they have crap drivers |
| 17:03.15 | randomparticle | so it's just a drivers issue? |
| 17:03.15 | JeffM | same thing happens on X |
| 17:03.16 | TheRedBaron | randomparticle: most often, is the KCI |
| 17:03.20 | TheRedBaron | *its |
| 17:03.32 | JeffM | the default windows drivers stuck |
| 17:03.32 | randomparticle | i have to say, trb, you and your brothers rarely crash |
| 17:03.37 | JeffM | just like the default nix drivers suck |
| 17:03.51 | JeffM | so it's probably user config issues |
| 17:03.55 | TheRedBaron | randomparticle: I've been using windows since 3.1 |
| 17:04.03 | JeffM | since apple gives you no choices it's harder for people to screw up |
| 17:04.05 | TheRedBaron | I know how to take care of it. |
| 17:04.12 | randomparticle | i see |
| 17:04.24 | TheRedBaron | Its still crashable though :) |
| 17:04.26 | JeffM | but then those apple people payed to have limited hardware support |
| 17:04.29 | randomparticle | so people should download drivers directly from ati etc? |
| 17:04.30 | JeffM | OSX is far from stable |
| 17:04.33 | JeffM | AGL has issues |
| 17:04.43 | JeffM | randomparticle, always, for both windows and linux |
| 17:04.50 | randomparticle | ok |
| 17:04.53 | JeffM | I'd say do it for apple too, but apple dosn't allow that |
| 17:05.32 | delusional_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:05.54 | randomparticle | yes, that's not perfect. then again, i've not had an obvious problem with the drivers before |
| 17:05.59 | JeffM | delusional_, it's more then a patch |
| 17:06.05 | randomparticle | maybe a new driver would have better performance. i really wouldn't know |
| 17:06.10 | JeffM | there is no synced clock on 2.0 |
| 17:06.21 | JeffM | randomparticle, cus you can't change them |
| 17:06.28 | delusional_ | I can guarantee that everyone sees the same thing |
| 17:06.32 | JeffM | if you had a problem you'd be stuck with it for 60 months |
| 17:06.55 | JeffM | delusional_, to do full sync you need a real synced clock, I've looked into it, 2.1 has a synced clock it just has to be used. |
| 17:07.05 | randomparticle | apple do update the drivers more frequently than once every 60 months :) |
| 17:07.13 | delusional_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:07.14 | JeffM | world weaps are off by the lag |
| 17:07.31 | randomparticle | but, yes, you're quite correct. you couldn't change to a newer driver if it became available from ati but apple didn't pass it on |
| 17:07.34 | JeffM | randomparticle, , sorry 6 |
| 17:08.10 | JeffM | delusional_, go read the code, don't guess. |
| 17:08.44 | delusional_ | OK, just throwing out a random particle. NP |
| 17:09.15 | JeffM | 2.1 has a sycned clock, the map could be changed to send out a real clock start time, and then the clients could sycn to that |
| 17:09.22 | JeffM | world weaps are sent as shot messages |
| 17:09.27 | JeffM | so they are never timed by the client |
| 17:09.31 | JeffM | they will always be off by lag |
| 17:09.44 | JeffM | map animation IS timed by the client |
| 17:09.51 | delusional_ | the map could start the clock? |
| 17:10.04 | JeffM | in 2.0 there is no clock |
| 17:10.20 | JeffM | IIRC for map animation it's started from map load |
| 17:10.43 | JeffM | so if a dynamic color has a wait of 1 second, it starts that 1 second after the map finishes loading |
| 17:10.52 | JeffM | I think |
| 17:10.55 | JeffM | I'm not sure on that |
| 17:11.08 | delusional_ | yes, evidence supports that. but the weapon clock starts at first join |
| 17:11.19 | JeffM | yes cus THAT is a server thing |
| 17:11.28 | JeffM | the server itself keeps a timer |
| 17:11.32 | JeffM | then sends out shot messages |
| 17:11.33 | randomparticle | what's a good way into programming on windows? i looked up visual studio but it was like > £400 |
| 17:11.43 | JeffM | randomparticle, VCee is free |
| 17:11.50 | JeffM | you didn't look hard enough |
| 17:12.04 | randomparticle | i had no idea what to look for :) |
| 17:12.09 | randomparticle | let me check that now, thanks |
| 17:12.51 | JeffM | delusional_, what you'd need is the map to send out a timestamp state on map load for each animation sequence so it knows where it is |
| 17:13.03 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, it wasn't too bad ;) |
| 17:13.09 | *** join/#bzflag DavidHKMrPowers (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/davidhkmrpowers) |
| 17:13.25 | JeffM | tho JBdiGriz may know if they have a better timer function |
| 17:13.30 | JeffM | they must have one |
| 17:13.41 | delusional_ | so how to send a timestamp state from the map? |
| 17:13.44 | JBdiGriz | Things are changing rather quickly, so I can go check on it. |
| 17:14.12 | JeffM | delusional_, well in 2.1 you can send a server based clock value and the client can use it |
| 17:14.40 | JeffM | best would be to just change all the animation stuff over to use the server synced clock |
| 17:14.45 | JeffM | then it would all be synced |
| 17:14.47 | JBdiGriz | As far as number of players, on the sites I visit, it's about split between Windows and Mac users with the occasionaly Linux person thrown in. Based on the clientquery, which is always suspect. |
| 17:15.25 | randomparticle | i had some stats a while back. it was about 54% windows |
| 17:15.27 | JeffM | to get 100% sync with world weapons, we'd have to add a new shot message that had a timestamp on it, and send it out BEFORE the shot was to fire, and let the server clock it |
| 17:15.58 | JBdiGriz | The Mac version still experiences the lighting crash/hang. Every once in a while either brlcad or myself starts looking into it for a while before being distracted. |
| 17:16.00 | JeffM | since there is lag on world shots, there is no way to get them to sync to world anims with out some sort of "fire the shot at 3:00" thing |
| 17:16.05 | randomparticle | bzflag is bound to draw more linux/os x users than most games because of the scarcity of decent games for those platforms |
| 17:16.15 | randomparticle | percentage-wise, that is |
| 17:16.23 | JeffM | if you say so :) |
| 17:16.48 | JeffM | there are lots of games for the mac, breakout.. super breakout.. photoshop |
| 17:17.00 | JBdiGriz | But there are so few linux/os x users around. ;) |
| 17:17.28 | JeffM | I'd think most nix systems are not used for desktop work |
| 17:17.49 | JBdiGriz | That has changed rather dramatically in the last 5 years. |
| 17:18.06 | JeffM | it has increased yes, but I don't think it's increased so that "Most" are desktops |
| 17:18.16 | JeffM | but I may be wrong |
| 17:18.50 | delusional_ | I'll wait for 2.2. Thanks Jeff you always have the answer I need. I have one other small request, documentation of the "include" function in bzw. I just "included" a little bit in the wiki. I guess it's correct, it's a pretty simple function. |
| 17:18.52 | JeffM | randomparticle, you need this, http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/default.aspx and then the platform SDK |
| 17:19.10 | JeffM | delusional_, I'm not saying 2.2 will do it, I'm saying 2.2 has the foundations to do it. |
| 17:19.16 | delusional_ | ok |
| 17:19.23 | JBdiGriz | I would have to check the statistics, but you might be wrong at this point. The number of Unix machines isn't huge compared to the desktop market, so the increase in desktop machines may have overtaken the servers. |
| 17:19.35 | JeffM | the include function adds in the contents of another map file |
| 17:19.38 | JeffM | simple as that |
| 17:20.04 | delusional_ | include isnt documented, anywhere, as far as i cnan tell |
| 17:20.18 | JeffM | delusional_, it is now, you doced it :) |
| 17:20.29 | delusional_ | correct again |
| 17:20.37 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, I'd think the number of servers has also increased due to interweb proliferatioin :) |
| 17:21.07 | JBdiGriz | But many of those machines have been Windows servers as well. The proportions of the market have changed. |
| 17:21.14 | JeffM | tho that may be slower then desktops as one server can service many desktops |
| 17:21.30 | JeffM | be interesting to see how it all sits now |
| 17:21.43 | JBdiGriz | That's why it's an interesting question. |
| 17:21.58 | JeffM | problem is, the person who "commisions" the studdy usualy comes out on top |
| 17:22.26 | JBdiGriz | I don't usually believe the studys from the people who commission them. |
| 17:22.29 | JeffM | if they could get away with it |
| 17:22.44 | JBdiGriz | ipods wouldn't count, iphones and AppleTV would. |
| 17:22.50 | JeffM | I know MS would want to count the 4 zunes |
| 17:23.03 | JBdiGriz | Just as WinCE would probably be included. |
| 17:23.04 | JeffM | iphone runs a full OSX kernel? or just a port of a couple services |
| 17:23.30 | JeffM | you gonna get one? |
| 17:23.39 | brlcad | i've fixed the lighting bug on at least two separate occassions |
| 17:24.02 | JBdiGriz | As all of the linux/OS X people around here know, a full OS X kernel is a collection of loadable modules. |
| 17:24.10 | JBdiGriz | The iPhone runs OS X. |
| 17:24.39 | brlcad | it's just that bug is particularly prone to getting readded .. just takes a simple opengl state mixup |
| 17:24.48 | JeffM | I read something about how it can't be runing the same kernel as full OSX cus there was no release port of the darwin kernel thing for ARM |
| 17:25.09 | JBdiGriz | I'm not waiting in line for an iPhone. They will be cheaper and better next year. On the other hand, I am working for a company that's closely affiliated with the cell phone industry, so I'm looking at the internals. |
| 17:25.11 | JeffM | tho maybe people are just guesing |
| 17:25.27 | JeffM | do you want one? ;) |
| 17:25.34 | JBdiGriz | Those people have no clue what they are talking about. |
| 17:25.35 | randomparticle | can't they just recompile for ARM? |
| 17:26.06 | JeffM | for the microkernel it would possibley need some arch tweaks I'd think |
| 17:26.08 | JBdiGriz | It's not quite as simple as recompiling for ARM. They had to port the machine dependencies to the platform. |
| 17:26.17 | randomparticle | ok |
| 17:26.25 | JeffM | no SDK for it sucks tho :( |
| 17:26.35 | JBdiGriz | no "released" SDK ;) |
| 17:26.47 | randomparticle | no cut and paste either :) |
| 17:26.48 | JeffM | so first party apps only? |
| 17:27.16 | JBdiGriz | for now, it's only the apps that Apple includes, which come from Google and a few others. |
| 17:27.17 | JeffM | cus yeah it has to have some sort of API for first party apps |
| 17:27.32 | JeffM | no native games |
| 17:28.03 | JBdiGriz | From what I can tell, it is running OpenGL, but I haven't been able to see that closely into it. |
| 17:28.31 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@client-82-2-82-55.manc.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 17:28.49 | JeffM | how could you tell? |
| 17:28.52 | JBdiGriz | I won't be buying one until I can do some development on it. |
| 17:29.19 | JBdiGriz | Talking to the iPhone developers, and asking some questions about the libraries. |
| 17:29.20 | JeffM | on the phone front I'll be interetested to see what homebrew can do with the mobile ITX mobos, that could be fun |
| 17:29.38 | JeffM | full homebrew phone could be neat |
| 17:29.52 | ruskie | bah neo1973+openmoko ftw :) |
| 17:30.03 | JBdiGriz | I don't know which carrier would allow it on their network. That could be a major problem. |
| 17:30.23 | JeffM | do they have that level of hardware controll? |
| 17:30.48 | JeffM | is there a chip or thing you need for the carier? I thought it was just CDMA or GSM? |
| 17:30.51 | JBdiGriz | They try to maintain that level of hardware control, and there is access requirements on the network. |
| 17:30.53 | JeffM | have a sim on GSM, go to town |
| 17:31.05 | JeffM | I mean I'm using a phone cingular never sold with out issue. |
| 17:31.32 | ruskie | I'd guess each gsm/cdma chip sends it's own id tag or some such |
| 17:31.37 | ruskie | and they could block it that way |
| 17:31.48 | JeffM | so homebrew would gank the ID from a razr ;) |
| 17:31.53 | JBdiGriz | What type of phone does it report as to the network? You should be able to find out from your account settings. |
| 17:31.57 | JeffM | "umm yeah.. it's my super razon" :) |
| 17:32.02 | ruskie | :) |
| 17:32.10 | ruskie | I'll be happy with the ne1973... linux top to bottom :) |
| 17:32.13 | ruskie | erm neo |
| 17:32.39 | JBdiGriz | There is a slight impediment to that plan. It's illegal to "clone" phones. |
| 17:33.00 | JBdiGriz | You would have to buy a razr to gank the ID. |
| 17:33.00 | JeffM | ruskie, the mobile ITX is a full x86 mobo, so it does run linux |
| 17:33.21 | ruskie | so does neo1973 but it's running arm |
| 17:33.23 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, so how does my PBLE work on cingular if they've never sold one. |
| 17:33.27 | ruskie | and it has agps in it as well |
| 17:33.31 | ruskie | along with wifi |
| 17:33.38 | randomparticle | looking at visual studio express.. it's a cut-down limited version, yes? |
| 17:33.43 | randomparticle | i mean, is it up to snuff? |
| 17:33.56 | JeffM | randomparticle, it lacks a couple features, but it's the same IDE and compiler |
| 17:34.00 | JeffM | it has a difrent license tho |
| 17:34.02 | JeffM | free to use |
| 17:34.08 | donny_baker | it is limited in some ways, but it fits many needs |
| 17:34.08 | JeffM | but you can't distribute the code |
| 17:34.12 | JeffM | it's for learning only |
| 17:34.20 | donny_baker | ah, hadn't seen that |
| 17:34.21 | randomparticle | you can't distribute code you write? |
| 17:34.25 | JeffM | bins |
| 17:34.29 | JeffM | code sure, bins no |
| 17:34.43 | ruskie | you could always try bloodshe dev-c++ |
| 17:34.47 | JeffM | it uses runtimes that arn't distobuteable |
| 17:34.56 | JeffM | wow I spelled that bad |
| 17:34.58 | randomparticle | oh.. hmm.. what use is that then? :) |
| 17:34.59 | JBdiGriz | JeffM: Do you know if it reports itself as a PBLE? Cingular/AT&T might not sell it, but they might not restrict it either. |
| 17:35.10 | JeffM | JBdiGriz, I'd not know how to find out |
| 17:35.13 | TheRedBaron | cp ./brewster/public_html/* /dir/xect/ |
| 17:35.17 | randomparticle | that's like saying, here's a car. you can use it but you can't drive it on a road :) |
| 17:35.30 | TheRedBaron | arg. |
| 17:35.36 | TheRedBaron | I hate two keyboards, sorry guys |
| 17:35.44 | JeffM | randomparticle, no it's like saying "here is the drivers ed car, you can only drive it to learn to drive, then get your own car" |
| 17:35.47 | scott | TheRedBaron: likely story |
| 17:36.06 | JBdiGriz | They might let you know on your account settings. Verizon lists the phone they think you have, and they match it up with the hardware IDs. |
| 17:36.22 | Winny | I don't want to read the last 3 hours of logs.... anyone have an iPhone? :p |
| 17:36.31 | randomparticle | is the next option up from that to spend £400? |
| 17:36.38 | randomparticle | or is there an intermediate option? |
| 17:36.41 | JeffM | randomparticle, are you a student? |
| 17:36.45 | randomparticle | no |
| 17:36.52 | TheRedBaron | scott: har |
| 17:37.01 | JeffM | if you want VC then yeah you buy it, if you want to be legal |
| 17:37.04 | JBdiGriz | randomparticle: It's more like saying you can't drive that experimental car on our roads with our users, unless we know it's not going to blow up and kill someone. |
| 17:37.12 | JeffM | there are other compilers |
| 17:37.14 | randomparticle | heh |
| 17:37.19 | JeffM | devC++ was mentioned |
| 17:37.23 | JeffM | or mingw |
| 17:37.25 | randomparticle | ok |
| 17:37.39 | JeffM | VC is the way to go IMHO |
| 17:37.46 | JeffM | but you have your choices |
| 17:38.04 | JBdiGriz | Of course, the carriers are less concerned with disruption to other users, and more concerned with charging you for everything that you are doing. |
| 17:38.20 | JeffM | hell yeah they are |
| 17:38.40 | JeffM | cingular's site says I still have my sony erricson |
| 17:38.41 | randomparticle | i think i've been spoilt by have the full development env on OS X and linux free |
| 17:39.00 | JeffM | randomparticle, you can have the same dev environ on windows |
| 17:39.04 | JeffM | mingw is gcc |
| 17:39.06 | JeffM | have at it |
| 17:39.08 | JeffM | it's free |
| 17:39.17 | JBdiGriz | That's one of the more amazing aspects of the iPhone. AT&T/Cingular has given up a lot of freedom to the users, and they are probably going to have to give up more over the coming years. |
| 17:39.50 | JeffM | I will be up for hardware upgrade in october.. be interesting to see what I can get then |
| 17:40.03 | JeffM | I realy like the shape and size of the PBLE |
| 17:40.11 | randomparticle | and vc is more like xcode? |
| 17:40.21 | JBdiGriz | There should be a lot more options, and hopefully much better software on all of them. |
| 17:40.27 | JeffM | it's better to say Xcode is more like VC ;) |
| 17:40.32 | randomparticle | ok |
| 17:40.54 | JeffM | but yes VC is a full IDE |
| 17:40.59 | JeffM | tho xcode uses GCC on the backen |
| 17:41.05 | JeffM | dev C++ uses mingw |
| 17:41.11 | JeffM | for a compiler |
| 17:41.11 | randomparticle | it can use the intel compilers too |
| 17:41.13 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:41.22 | JBdiGriz | Xcode uses multiple compilers on the backend. |
| 17:41.24 | JeffM | vc can use the intel ones too |
| 17:41.37 | randomparticle | they're supposedly better optimized |
| 17:41.39 | JBdiGriz | Xcode can use the intel ones too |
| 17:41.52 | randomparticle | gcc is supposedly a bit rubbish at optimization |
| 17:41.57 | JeffM | VCEE dosn't allow compiler replacemnets IIRC |
| 17:42.03 | JeffM | as it's a learning tool |
| 17:42.46 | JeffM | as a text editor VC is quite nice as well |
| 17:42.56 | JeffM | as long as your talking about 7.1 or 8.0 |
| 17:43.04 | JeffM | 6... not so much |
| 17:43.32 | JBdiGriz | Xcode allows you to use whichever editor you prefer, including the internal one. |
| 17:43.52 | JBdiGriz | It's dead, Jim. |
| 17:43.55 | JeffM | it is |
| 17:43.58 | JeffM | it was a nice IDE tho |
| 17:44.38 | randomparticle | it's not especially pleasing that there is just one decent IDE choice on OS X |
| 17:44.48 | JeffM | now what will be fun next week, is to see what I can get to build on the nokia 770 tablet :) |
| 17:45.07 | JeffM | randomparticle, hey on linux there are 0 decent IDEs ;) |
| 17:45.11 | JBdiGriz | Which IDE which you prefer? Some people like eclipse. Others like other IDEs. |
| 17:46.10 | JBdiGriz | The best IDE is the one that allows you to get your work done. |
| 17:47.20 | ruskie | how about git :) |
| 17:47.56 | randomparticle | eclipse has its uses, but isn't very good for cocoa dev for example |
| 17:49.01 | JBdiGriz | VC isn't very good for cocoa dev either. |
| 17:49.40 | randomparticle | well, yes. but i would imagine there are good alternatives on windows for what vc does in most areas. |
| 17:49.45 | randomparticle | at least, i would hope so |
| 17:49.48 | randomparticle | am just guessing |
| 17:52.56 | randomparticle | it's quite difficult to make a good competitor with xcode. you have the peculiarities of OS X so you can't just port everything. then the market is quite small comparatively speaking. and then Xcode is free already |
| 17:53.04 | ts | Hmm, I fixed radar rendering of meshes locally but it lowest performance. What is acceptable and what is not? |
| 17:53.13 | ts | lowers* |
| 17:54.45 | ts | Right now it seems it may eat 10% of FPS |
| 17:59.22 | ts | Opinions? |
| 17:59.28 | ts | gah, I can not spell |
| 17:59.43 | Noodleman | i have no opinions, only truths that everyone else in entitled to |
| 17:59.45 | JeffM | ts, how did you do it? |
| 17:59.59 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-022-048.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 18:00.02 | ts | JeffM: trepan did cut too much faces out |
| 18:00.35 | JeffM | ahh well then more faces == slower |
| 18:00.37 | ts | JeffM: I'm doing a preprocessing loop every frame, collecting the faces, then using the colour scaling on them |
| 18:00.46 | JeffM | OH WOW |
| 18:00.56 | JeffM | yeah dude, put that into a display list |
| 18:01.08 | ts | ?` |
| 18:01.24 | JeffM | pick one color for the entire object |
| 18:01.38 | JeffM | then put the geo in the display list |
| 18:01.48 | JeffM | do the color each frame, then call the list |
| 18:01.52 | JeffM | that will be a LOT faster |
| 18:02.29 | JeffM | all the other objects do a single color for the entire object right? |
| 18:02.40 | ts | Not that I see |
| 18:02.47 | JeffM | we don't do the base or the sides of a pyramid difrent do we? |
| 18:02.54 | JeffM | pyramids are just drawn like a box |
| 18:03.10 | ts | yes |
| 18:03.27 | JeffM | so then even tho those sides of the pyramid are at a difrent Z then the base, we draw them the same color |
| 18:03.40 | JeffM | this means that we can draw meshe the same way, one color for the entire object |
| 18:03.46 | JeffM | and it's consistent |
| 18:04.08 | JeffM | right? |
| 18:04.29 | ts | That would mean changing the entire way a mesh is rendered on radar |
| 18:04.37 | JeffM | so? |
| 18:05.50 | ts | <-- lazy ;) |
| 18:06.50 | ts | and I'm not understanding the existent stuff entirely |
| 18:06.57 | JeffM | then what is the point of asking about it if your to lazy to make changes? |
| 18:07.07 | JeffM | he's probably trying to do per face colroing |
| 18:07.17 | JeffM | so large objects show up in hues |
| 18:07.26 | JeffM | realy it shoudl take Z slices and build a silloute |
| 18:07.30 | JeffM | then stack them |
| 18:07.36 | JeffM | but a flat outline is probably fine |
| 18:07.47 | ts | I'm not understanding this: if (face->getPlane()[2] <= 0.0f) continue; |
| 18:07.49 | JeffM | large map spaning single meshes are slow |
| 18:08.11 | JeffM | ts, if the Z component of the face is 0 then skip it |
| 18:08.12 | ts | So maybe it is already only using the z data |
| 18:08.24 | JeffM | that' just gets rid of like the sides of a box |
| 18:08.29 | JeffM | cus they would compress to a line |
| 18:08.31 | ts | JeffM: Yeah, we need the Z component == 0 |
| 18:08.34 | JeffM | not a shape |
| 18:08.40 | JeffM | no, that' NOT what that does |
| 18:08.55 | ts | We need it to render correct |
| 18:08.59 | JeffM | that's geting rid of faces that will go degnerate when Z if forced to 0 |
| 18:09.05 | JeffM | you don't want to render degenerate faces |
| 18:09.10 | JeffM | they don't add to the image |
| 18:09.13 | JeffM | take a box |
| 18:09.18 | ts | Yes? |
| 18:09.20 | JeffM | you get the same final image if you just render the top |
| 18:09.25 | JeffM | at Z0 |
| 18:09.40 | JeffM | as you get when you render all 6 faces |
| 18:09.48 | JeffM | the 4 sides will be turned into lines |
| 18:09.57 | JeffM | right under the edges of the box |
| 18:10.01 | JeffM | so you don't want to render them |
| 18:10.04 | ts | At Z0? |
| 18:10.06 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:10.15 | ts | What do you mean with Z0? |
| 18:10.24 | ts | The Z component being 0? |
| 18:10.25 | JeffM | to do radar, you force all Z values to 0 |
| 18:10.33 | JeffM | to make it into a 2d image |
| 18:10.38 | JeffM | without perspective |
| 18:10.49 | JeffM | he's culling faces that align with Z |
| 18:10.54 | JeffM | faces that would render as a line |
| 18:11.04 | ts | We use colorScale on Z position and top |
| 18:11.15 | JeffM | your not geting what I'm saying |
| 18:11.26 | JeffM | that code you showed me has nothing to do with color |
| 18:11.29 | JeffM | it' a simple cull |
| 18:11.34 | ts | if Z position is > 0 then we don't have the correct position |
| 18:11.42 | JeffM | ok your not listening |
| 18:11.50 | JeffM | let me know when your ready to |
| 18:12.03 | ts | Well, I try to but it sounds wrong to me |
| 18:12.29 | JeffM | your going too far forward |
| 18:12.36 | JeffM | and applying how you think it should work, to the description |
| 18:12.41 | JeffM | that code, does not set color |
| 18:12.52 | JeffM | that code has NOTHING to do with the actual postion of the face in Z |
| 18:12.57 | JeffM | it's asking for the PLANE NORMAL |
| 18:13.03 | JeffM | not the Z of the face |
| 18:13.13 | JeffM | but the Z component of the face normal |
| 18:13.48 | JeffM | do you know what a plane normal is? |
| 18:13.50 | randomparticle | one with wings? :) |
| 18:13.57 | ts | I'm not sure what the diff of a plane to a face is in english |
| 18:14.03 | JeffM | the face normal |
| 18:14.09 | JeffM | do you know what a face normal is? |
| 18:14.13 | ts | The words are very different |
| 18:14.14 | JeffM | take a sheet of paper |
| 18:14.16 | randomparticle | a plane is infinite |
| 18:14.22 | randomparticle | a face is bounded |
| 18:14.24 | JeffM | take a pen or pence |
| 18:14.27 | JeffM | randomparticle, it dosn't mater |
| 18:14.31 | JeffM | pencil |
| 18:14.41 | JeffM | poke the pen thru the paper in the middle |
| 18:14.54 | JeffM | that pen is the vector that is NORMAL to the face |
| 18:15.06 | ts | Ah, thaaat |
| 18:15.24 | JeffM | yeah THAT |
| 18:15.25 | ts | 90degrees |
| 18:15.30 | JeffM | perpendicular |
| 18:15.39 | JeffM | so every face has one of those normals |
| 18:15.49 | JeffM | it's normal to the inifinate plane that goes thru the face |
| 18:15.58 | JeffM | so it's called the plane normal |
| 18:16.10 | JeffM | so that normal is made up of X Y and Z components |
| 18:16.38 | ts | The plane normal means the normal does not stop at the one end? |
| 18:16.38 | JeffM | if the Z component of the face is 0, then it's like you were holding the paper on edge, and the pen is paralell to the tab |
| 18:16.40 | JeffM | etable |
| 18:16.50 | JeffM | no it's a face normal |
| 18:16.55 | JeffM | he just called it the plane normal |
| 18:17.01 | JeffM | it's a unit vector |
| 18:17.04 | ts | k |
| 18:17.22 | randomparticle | it's called a normal because it's been normalized :) |
| 18:17.23 | JeffM | faces may be non planar, so plane normal would be the normal to some plane for the face |
| 18:17.29 | JeffM | randomparticle, your not helping |
| 18:17.38 | randomparticle | sorry, couldn't resist. is true though :) |
| 18:17.53 | JeffM | so if you take your paper and rotate it, so that insted of siting flat on the table, you tilt it up on edge |
| 18:18.02 | JeffM | like it was the side of a box |
| 18:18.05 | ts | Now we have X, Y and Z and therefore we only need Z theoretically |
| 18:18.17 | JeffM | no, once again your going to far |
| 18:18.19 | JeffM | just listen |
| 18:18.36 | JeffM | when rotate the pen is paralell to the table right? |
| 18:19.06 | ts | man, I really need to learn 3d english |
| 18:19.12 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:19.14 | ts | What do you mean by tilt? |
| 18:19.22 | JeffM | if you picked one edge of the paper up |
| 18:19.34 | JeffM | the paper would rotate ( or tilt ) up right? |
| 18:19.39 | ts | vertical? |
| 18:19.42 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:19.48 | JeffM | that would be a rotation of the paper |
| 18:19.55 | ts | Heh, that is one word here |
| 18:19.55 | JeffM | since one edge would stay on the table |
| 18:20.09 | JeffM | so now the paper is veritcal |
| 18:20.12 | ts | right |
| 18:20.21 | JeffM | and the pen sitcks out to one side right? |
| 18:20.36 | ts | It's normal has to be |
| 18:20.37 | JeffM | assuming the paper is super strong ;) |
| 18:20.46 | JeffM | yeah so the pen is paralell to the table |
| 18:21.09 | JeffM | if you express that pen as a vector, it would have an X and Y compoenent, but the Z would be 0 |
| 18:21.21 | JeffM | because the Z is the same at both ends of the pen |
| 18:21.29 | JeffM | right? |
| 18:21.35 | ts | right |
| 18:21.43 | JeffM | now if you stand up |
| 18:21.48 | JeffM | and look DOWN on the paper |
| 18:21.53 | ts | and X and Y should be identical |
| 18:21.53 | JeffM | from the to |
| 18:21.55 | JeffM | no |
| 18:22.02 | ts | :/ |
| 18:22.12 | JeffM | the X and Y will be difrent based on what way the pen faces |
| 18:22.17 | randomparticle | this is idealized paper of infinitesimal thickness? |
| 18:22.27 | JeffM | randomparticle, shut it |
| 18:22.35 | randomparticle | now now jeffm |
| 18:22.39 | randomparticle | take a chill pill |
| 18:22.42 | JeffM | ts, when you look down on the paper from the top |
| 18:22.45 | JeffM | can you see the paper? |
| 18:22.57 | JeffM | or is it a very thin line |
| 18:23.13 | ts | It's really small, almost non-visible |
| 18:23.21 | JeffM | randomparticle, you are not part of the conversation, and not adding anything usefull, and it's very rude. |
| 18:23.25 | ts | So .. like invisible |
| 18:23.36 | randomparticle | it's a valid question |
| 18:23.43 | JeffM | ts, so if that was a face in the computer, it WOULD be invisibile |
| 18:23.49 | JeffM | right? |
| 18:23.52 | randomparticle | if it's not of infinitesimal thickness, you may not see a line. you may see a rectangle |
| 18:23.54 | ts | yeah |
| 18:24.14 | JeffM | randomparticle, let me do it in my order, your just cofusing the issue, I know what your asking, and I JUST ANSWERED IT |
| 18:24.28 | JeffM | now please stop interupting, he's having a hard enough time geting it as is |
| 18:24.33 | randomparticle | this is not just -your- private conversation |
| 18:24.42 | randomparticle | this is a public channel |
| 18:25.01 | JeffM | yeah and I'm asking you to not confuse him |
| 18:25.05 | JeffM | publiucly |
| 18:25.06 | JeffM | get over it |
| 18:25.27 | JeffM | I'm allmost done, so you can comment then |
| 18:25.33 | randomparticle | i have nothing to get over, old chap. you're the one whose blowing his top :) |
| 18:25.40 | randomparticle | *who's |
| 18:26.00 | JeffM | ts, so when we draw the radar, if we had a face like that, that we can't see from the top, we can just skip it |
| 18:26.27 | ts | JeffM: That sounds logical but does not fit to my programming tries |
| 18:26.38 | JeffM | well there is probably other code around it |
| 18:26.41 | JeffM | that does other things |
| 18:26.46 | JeffM | but that is what that one line test does |
| 18:27.10 | JeffM | now after that, I'd think what he would do would be to check for the Z of the bounds of the face |
| 18:27.13 | JeffM | to figure out what color |
| 18:27.20 | JeffM | once he knows he has to draw it |
| 18:27.34 | JeffM | then renders it as just an XY face with no Z |
| 18:27.36 | ts | I have found out that face->getPosition()[2] returns the objects top point, not the position |
| 18:27.53 | ts | and its heigth is always 0 |
| 18:28.03 | JeffM | well an object is more then just a single point |
| 18:28.25 | JeffM | so you'd have to pick a point to use for the color, top, bottom, or middle |
| 18:28.39 | JeffM | height is not realy needed, just some point on the face |
| 18:28.57 | brlcad | JeffM: so living free today? |
| 18:28.58 | JeffM | is height used at all? |
| 18:29.21 | ts | yes! |
| 18:29.38 | ts | https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/src/bzflag/RadarRenderer.cxx?revision=8995&view=markup |
| 18:29.53 | JeffM | ts what line? |
| 18:29.55 | ts | libes 635-638 |
| 18:29.59 | ts | lines* |
| 18:30.16 | JeffM | brlcad, I hope so |
| 18:30.30 | brlcad | JeffM & DTRemenak: how's Thu the 9th or Fri the 10th sound? |
| 18:30.42 | JeffM | ts, what does colorscale do with the height? |
| 18:30.55 | brlcad | probably fri |
| 18:31.16 | JeffM | brlcad, ether or is good for me |
| 18:32.13 | ts | JeffM: It uses the heigth to choose the colour |
| 18:32.22 | JeffM | ok so 0 is valid in there |
| 18:32.34 | JeffM | I don't think it should do it per face, but should do it for the entire object |
| 18:32.37 | ts | checking whether the tank is over, under or at same heigth of object |
| 18:33.08 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:33.11 | JeffM | yeah so that is wacky |
| 18:33.23 | JeffM | better would be to get the entire bbox of the mesh and just use that |
| 18:33.30 | JeffM | then color all the faces the same |
| 18:33.36 | JeffM | then it'd be like a box or pyramid |
| 18:34.01 | ts | but why is getHeigth and getPosition messed up? |
| 18:34.14 | JeffM | faces don't have heights |
| 18:34.18 | JeffM | postion is NOT messed up |
| 18:34.25 | ts | Aaah |
| 18:34.49 | JeffM | you can't describe a face with a single postioin |
| 18:34.51 | ts | When I swap it to Z == 0 then I can easily read it |
| 18:35.00 | ts | but it consumes too much power |
| 18:35.21 | ts | so I should rather "collect the faces and determine position and heigth" |
| 18:35.28 | ts | Right? |
| 18:35.47 | JeffM | well the mesh object itself should have the Axis Aligned Boundingbox |
| 18:35.57 | JeffM | so you can get the bottom and the height from that |
| 18:36.11 | JeffM | your just too low when your at a face basis |
| 18:36.43 | JeffM | is there a section where it asks to draw the radar for the entire object? |
| 18:36.59 | JeffM | cus that engire object should be in the octree as a single thing |
| 18:37.15 | ts | It draws the object as triangle fans |
| 18:37.17 | brlcad | JeffM: aiight |
| 18:37.25 | ts | waisting polys |
| 18:37.33 | JeffM | ts, well not a fan, but a triangle soup |
| 18:37.55 | JeffM | but is there a function where it asks to draw the entire objet, then goes and does that per face stuff? |
| 18:38.05 | ts | The comment says trifans :pp |
| 18:38.09 | JeffM | L4m3r, |
| 18:38.25 | JeffM | ts, do you see GLBegin(GL_TRIANGLE_FAN)? |
| 18:38.27 | purple_cow | pong? |
| 18:38.32 | brlcad | i think JBdiGriz is working on finding a place |
| 18:38.41 | ts | JeffM: yes |
| 18:38.45 | JeffM | ts, interesting |
| 18:38.58 | JeffM | yeah I guess he can break each face into a fan |
| 18:39.06 | JeffM | so that's fine |
| 18:39.34 | JeffM | he didn't slam it into a list cus he did each face having it's own color |
| 18:39.51 | JeffM | if you did the entire object as one color, you'd be able to keep the object in a list |
| 18:40.02 | JeffM | does it use alpha? or just color? |
| 18:40.26 | ts | I think only colour but lemme look |
| 18:40.44 | JeffM | it's be easier if it did only color |
| 18:41.02 | ts | also alpha |
| 18:41.08 | JeffM | for each face? |
| 18:41.23 | ts | yes |
| 18:41.27 | JeffM | poop |
| 18:41.35 | JeffM | that makes it harder |
| 18:41.37 | ts | if I interpet the glColor4f correct |
| 18:41.50 | JeffM | does it compute a new 4th value per face? |
| 18:41.59 | ts | yes |
| 18:42.06 | JeffM | then yeah that's more of a PITA |
| 18:42.20 | ts | again, using position and heigth of the individual faces |
| 18:42.34 | JeffM | that's where you'd need to depth sort, or blast to a texture |
| 18:43.12 | ts | &%&%&& |
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| 19:28.55 | *** join/#bzflag quine (i=quine@decal2.lbl.gov) |
| 19:29.11 | quine | so this is #bzflag, eh? |
| 19:33.18 | Suspect | Aye |
| 19:33.21 | Suspect | Nice little channel |
| 19:33.30 | scott | ah, quine! |
| 19:33.33 | Suspect | I love watching everyone talking about what's to come in BZFlag |
| 19:33.35 | Suspect | :P |
| 19:33.56 | scott | scott: good little game last night :) |
| 19:33.59 | scott | er |
| 19:34.00 | scott | quine: |
| 19:34.07 | Suspect | xD |
| 19:34.45 | AWOSLappy | hehe |
| 19:36.43 | quine | hallo |
| 19:36.55 | quine | anybody familiar with the source ;\ |
| 19:37.48 | brlcad | Suspect: what is to come in bzflag? |
| 19:37.56 | AWOSLappy | IRC! |
| 19:38.29 | brlcad | the international rescue committee is going to save us all! |
| 19:39.05 | Suspect | brlcad: well |
| 19:39.11 | AWOSLappy | I'd hardly call IRC the International Rescue Committee :P |
| 19:39.16 | Suspect | brlcad: What exactly I mean is |
| 19:39.28 | Suspect | brlcad: I like watching you guys chatter about what you're doing right now and stuff |
| 19:39.41 | Suspect | brlcad: I don't write it down and keep tabs on what you're doing :P |
| 19:40.51 | quine | wait, scott, who are you :\ |
| 19:40.58 | scott | quine: das_bender |
| 19:41.01 | quine | ahhh |
| 19:41.11 | scott | :) |
| 19:41.27 | quine | i got kinda sick a little bit into it |
| 19:41.38 | quine | sudden extreme exhaustion :\ |
| 19:41.52 | scott | wsa it you who quit all of a sudden? |
| 19:41.57 | quine | no |
| 19:42.12 | quine | wait, maybe i'm thinking of the wrong match :\ |
| 19:42.15 | AWOSLappy | Suspect: hmm, sounds like you'd have fun on my development channel :) |
| 19:42.32 | Suspect | :P |
| 19:42.35 | quine | last night is a little bit blurry |
| 19:42.42 | scott | quine: the first match in bzgirl iirc |
| 19:43.11 | quine | do you remember the teams? |
| 19:43.21 | quine | never mind, i think i was ok then |
| 19:43.26 | scott | just smurftank |
| 19:43.31 | scott | and you :) |
| 19:43.37 | quine | ah |
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| 19:44.34 | Winny | network sucessfully moved to basement :D |
| 19:46.07 | AWOSLappy | Winny: :P |
| 19:46.13 | AWOSLappy | so now you live in your parents basement :P |
| 19:46.25 | Winny | was tired of literally 70ft of networking cable under my desk |
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| 20:00.06 | Winny | JeffM: ping |
| 20:00.55 | AWOSLappy | ~dict barista |
| 20:01.00 | AWOSLappy | >_> |
| 20:01.06 | AWOSLappy | ~lart himself |
| 20:01.06 | ibot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps himself |
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| 20:04.08 | Winny | Interesting name change ;) |
| 20:06.16 | brad | ~rot13 GvzEvxre |
| 20:06.16 | ibot | TimRiker |
| 20:06.30 | scott | heh |
| 20:06.33 | AWOSLappy | neat |
| 20:06.35 | AWOSLappy | :P |
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| 20:26.20 | quine | oh finally |
| 20:27.22 | quine | ahh, damn you SDL |
| 20:29.05 | JeffM | Winny, sup? |
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| 20:45.41 | JeffM | ts, I assume you were looking at the code in renderBoxPyrMesh ? |
| 20:48.16 | quine | YES. |
| 20:48.34 | quine | i actually did get bzflag built in os x now :\ |
| 20:53.14 | Winny | JeffM, bah, one sec, forget my question :p |
| 20:53.20 | JeffM | heh |
| 20:53.57 | Winny | ah, I remember |
| 20:54.12 | Winny | On BZBB (if you know), does charg = scamjet? |
| 20:54.17 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:54.20 | Winny | ah, k |
| 20:54.51 | Winny | he keeps sending me almost the same PM as the different accounts, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't yelling at the wrong person |
| 20:55.58 | JeffM | nope you are yelling at the correct person |
| 20:56.06 | JeffM | he's been warned about that before too |
| 20:56.30 | Winny | yay, so I can continue my yelling? |
| 20:56.45 | JeffM | it's a PM you can do whatever you want :) |
| 20:57.14 | Winny | >:o |
| 20:58.34 | JeffM | brlcad, you arround? |
| 20:59.10 | quine | display list? |
| 20:59.16 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:59.31 | quine | explain? |
| 20:59.40 | JeffM | it's an openGL thing |
| 20:59.49 | JeffM | you can store a gl commands in a list |
| 20:59.53 | JeffM | often on the card |
| 20:59.56 | JeffM | using a display list |
| 21:00.11 | quine | um. |
| 21:00.25 | quine | so where would the list be displayed exactly? |
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| 21:00.38 | JeffM | do you know aything about openGL or programing? |
| 21:00.49 | quine | yeah |
| 21:00.57 | quine | i'm working on the bzflag source right now ;\ |
| 21:01.11 | JeffM | then you shoudl know your question makes no sense |
| 21:01.15 | quine | but i'm a bit iffy on opengl |
| 21:01.18 | JeffM | gl commands have there postions |
| 21:01.22 | JeffM | it's not like a text list |
| 21:01.25 | quine | :\ |
| 21:01.25 | JeffM | it's a list of gl commands |
| 21:01.27 | JeffM | that draw stuff |
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| 21:01.30 | quine | ok. |
| 21:01.51 | quine | i just dabble a bit on opengl |
| 21:01.56 | quine | guess that's beyond me as of yet |
| 21:02.05 | JeffM | so then the answer to my question was no, not yes |
| 21:02.27 | JeffM | display lists are use to speed up rendering |
| 21:02.37 | JeffM | static geometry can go into the list |
| 21:02.46 | JeffM | then you can just call the list each frame to draw it |
| 21:02.46 | quine | is it similar in concept to caching? |
| 21:02.57 | JeffM | yes and no |
| 21:03.05 | JeffM | since it's more then a cache |
| 21:03.12 | JeffM | the list is on the card, and it IS execusted |
| 21:03.21 | JeffM | executed |
| 21:03.24 | quine | all right. |
| 21:03.35 | JeffM | and it can be transformed beforehand by state not in the list |
| 21:04.52 | JeffM | uggg.. context initalisers.. I reemmber those... and why I hate them |
| 21:06.15 | JeffM | realy need a good display list manager to do good radar meshes :( |
| 21:06.17 | JeffM | oh well |
| 21:06.22 | JeffM | no commits from me then :) |
| 21:06.57 | quine | :\ |
| 21:07.40 | JeffM | would be rather fast too, sin and cos per object per frame, ugg |
| 21:07.43 | quine | a friend and i are just working on trying to figure out why shots don't render on the radar on his macbook |
| 21:07.54 | JeffM | gl state probably |
| 21:07.57 | quine | the trails do, but not the shots |
| 21:07.59 | JeffM | or the width is less then 0 |
| 21:08.30 | quine | width is fine |
| 21:08.43 | quine | he tried to render a rectangle in its place |
| 21:08.47 | quine | which didn't show up either |
| 21:10.21 | Constitution | quine: turn off "Smoothing" in display options |
| 21:11.53 | quine | i don't think that would help |
| 21:12.07 | Constitution | it fixed it on mine |
| 21:12.14 | quine | hmm, really? |
| 21:12.16 | quine | i'll tell him |
| 21:12.22 | Constitution | yep, and I've heard it worked on others |
| 21:12.24 | quine | thanks for the suggestion |
| 21:12.29 | Constitution | np |
| 21:25.09 | quine | oh my god |
| 21:25.13 | quine | xcode is killing me |
| 21:25.33 | quine | apparently what was messing with my mind is that i have to, for some unknown reason, compile TWICE to have changes show up |
| 21:27.52 | JBdiGriz | Check your target architecture. |
| 21:29.47 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Kalen@fl-71-49-6-126.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:31.11 | *** join/#bzflag nn-gentoo (n=nn-gento@74.94.43.195) |
| 21:31.30 | nn-gentoo | um a plugin wont compile right for bzflag? |
| 21:31.37 | nn-gentoo | how do i fix etc |
| 21:31.55 | Constitution | nn-gentoo: what's the problem? |
| 21:33.43 | quine | hmm |
| 21:34.38 | AWOSLappy | wow, CBG has the same problem as nn-gentoo |
| 21:34.42 | AWOSLappy | nn-gentoo: mac? |
| 21:34.49 | CBG | ??? |
| 21:35.06 | AWOSLappy | CBG: remember? |
| 21:35.09 | CBG | I see |
| 21:35.10 | AWOSLappy | your plugin won't compile? |
| 21:35.10 | brad | ... |
| 21:35.12 | CBG | read up. |
| 21:35.32 | brad | nn-gentoo: what do you mean by 'wont compile right' ? |
| 21:35.37 | brad | what errors do you get? |
| 21:35.53 | CBG | it did. |
| 21:35.55 | CBG | but it seems hit or miss. |
| 21:35.57 | CBG | I started fresh, did the exact same thing, it worked. :| |
| 21:40.22 | ts | JeffM: Yes |
| 21:42.49 | nn-gentoo | MindFeild wont compile |
| 21:43.11 | nn-gentoo | nn@sshsrv ~ $ make |
| 21:43.11 | nn-gentoo | make: *** No rule to make target `makefile.am', needed by `makefile.in'. Stop. |
| 21:43.24 | nn-gentoo | ? |
| 21:43.45 | nn-gentoo | then i try c++ and Boom 50 errors |
| 21:43.50 | nn-gentoo | ack |
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| 21:47.09 | nn-gentoo | brad? |
| 21:47.32 | nn-gentoo | can you help me with minfield plugin |
| 21:49.04 | brad | is there a Makefile? |
| 21:50.02 | brad | nano Makefile |
| 21:50.11 | brad | copy something like this into it: |
| 21:50.24 | brad | ahod.so: |
| 21:50.32 | brad | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:50.44 | brad | save it, and type make :P |
| 21:56.20 | quine | um |
| 21:56.32 | quine | did you configure it? |
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| 22:32.26 | JeffM | ts, I see how it could be fixed, but the sysem would need a display list manager |
| 22:32.47 | JeffM | tho you could make a small change to make them all the same color :) |
| 22:32.55 | JeffM | tho the pydriv would suck |
| 22:33.22 | JeffM | wonder if the radar should always draw the pydriv death polys on top even on concaves |
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| 23:05.35 | quine | hmm |
| 23:06.01 | quine | does the client receive angle data about other tanks? |
| 23:06.08 | quine | oh wait, it must. it renders them. |
| 23:07.08 | tannerld | eheh |
| 23:07.20 | quine | but i can't find it |
| 23:08.23 | quine | gah :\ |
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| 23:23.22 | *** part/#bzflag bremac (n=bremac@hlfxns01bbg-142177233114.ns.aliant.net) |
| 23:24.29 | Constitution | how would I revert to a previous svn revision from within my checked-out copy of the source? |
| 23:24.36 | Constitution | is it something like svn diff -r {20070615} | patch -p0? |
| 23:27.41 | quine | so, would there be any problems with tanks rotating on radar? |
| 23:28.24 | tannerld | quine: ? |
| 23:28.29 | tannerld | oh |
| 23:29.05 | SpazzyMcGee | IMHO, if you could see tank direction on the radar it would be too easy. |
| 23:29.29 | SpazzyMcGee | Work it out from the direction they are moving and/or shooting. |
| 23:29.32 | tannerld | the topic sounds familiar |
| 23:30.12 | CBG | quine: i hope you're not asking for help to cheat :| |
| 23:37.08 | quine | no, i'm not |
| 23:37.32 | quine | i'm wondering what could possibly be changed :] |
| 23:37.47 | CBG | anything could possibly be changed... |
| 23:37.53 | quine | i'm trying to think of some ideas for little projects i could do that won't destroy the game |
| 23:37.59 | quine | so i guess that one is out :] |
| 23:38.04 | CBG | right ;) |
| 23:38.16 | CBG | look at the GSoC ideas on the wiki |
| 23:38.18 | quine | no worries, i just want to code something |
| 23:38.21 | quine | ahh, good call |
| 23:38.33 | CBG | only 4 are being done, out of many more :) |
| 23:38.48 | Constitution | CBG: and one not even from the list :-) |
| 23:38.58 | CBG | oh? |
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| 23:39.25 | Constitution | Epyon's, I believe? |
| 23:39.54 | SpazzyMcGee | JeffM: I don't know if you know/care, but your post on "How to run a public server", contains old info. |
| 23:40.03 | CBG | I have no clue, haven't been keeping up and can't check the wiki right now. |
| 23:40.27 | quine | hmm |
| 23:40.37 | quine | how about the message log idea? |
| 23:41.00 | SpazzyMcGee | Oh wait, JeffM isn't here. |
| 23:42.07 | tannerld | lol |
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| 23:48.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o GvzEvxre] by ChanServ |
| 23:57.02 | tannerld | can a regular box have 'passable' for both drive/shoot through? |
| 23:58.35 | CBG | passable == drivethrough + shootthrough |
| 23:59.32 | CBG | oh, I always thought so |
| 23:59.32 | brad | you could always try it |
| 23:59.36 | CBG | but haven't tested :/ |
| 23:59.52 | tannerld | I could, or save a few minutes :P |