| 00:02.44 | Winny | *boom* |
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| 00:12.11 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:13.29 | CBG | TD-Linux: why do _I_ have to give the English lessons!? |
| 00:13.38 | a_meteorite | you |
| 00:13.41 | a_meteorite | you're english? |
| 00:13.45 | CBG | Nope. |
| 00:13.48 | a_meteorite | welsh? |
| 00:13.50 | CBG | Welsh. |
| 00:13.54 | a_meteorite | same difference :) |
| 00:14.00 | CBG | And no, it's not the same. |
| 00:14.36 | Winny | CBG: you woul scare him away pretty fast? :p |
| 00:15.05 | CBG | oh |
| 00:15.07 | CBG | well, duh! |
| 00:24.11 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=BZ_Win_@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 01:12.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
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| 01:52.38 | TD-Linux | CBG, you're very good at english lessons. |
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| 02:09.37 | CBG | Heh... |
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| 02:47.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 02:49.53 | QBeep | Is there a way to get (+|-|@) status on a player using BZadmin? |
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| 02:52.50 | tannerld | I don't think so |
| 02:52.57 | QBeep | grr |
| 02:53.00 | blast007 | QBeep: if you have the curses build, you can hit F2 and go to the player list |
| 02:53.12 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-151-201-242-187.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:53.15 | QBeep | My BZadmin doesn't show team or reg status in that list |
| 02:53.32 | blast007 | make the window bigger then |
| 02:54.03 | blast007 | doesn't show the team though |
| 02:54.56 | QBeep | Is there a server command to dump that information to console? |
| 02:56.07 | blast007 | doesn't seem so |
| 02:56.24 | QBeep | OK |
| 02:56.38 | QBeep | Guess server control through a Perl bot will have to wait |
| 03:01.20 | tannerld | QBeep: you could use php BZFlag_Info to |
| 03:04.37 | blast007 | or even just the bzfquery.(pl|py|php) in the bzflag source's misc/ directory |
| 03:06.25 | QBeep | cool. I have a lot to learn about |
| 03:14.31 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
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| 03:20.54 | Macrosoft | why do you use bzadmin instead of just joining in the normal client as an observer |
| 03:20.56 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 03:22.25 | tannerld | some don't want to see all the gui; just chat perhaps or kills..etc; simple stuff that doesn't require the gui |
| 03:22.54 | QBeep | I want to use Perl to perform some server tasks that require detailed player info. |
| 03:23.17 | Macrosoft | makes it kinda hard to SEE what the players are doing |
| 03:23.32 | tannerld | Macrosoft: usually the use doesn't require to SEE what players are doing |
| 03:23.46 | Macrosoft | you need to be able to watch for cheating |
| 03:24.06 | DTRemenak | bzadmin is frequently run on devices or through connections that can't handle a full bzflag client |
| 03:24.32 | Macrosoft | ok, thats fine for those situations then |
| 03:24.41 | tannerld | DTRemenak: thanks |
| 03:25.18 | QBeep | I don't want to watch for cheating. I don't want to admire specular effects. I want to track player activity so I can "/flag take" people who hold a GM for more than 10 minutes. |
| 03:25.26 | QBeep | Among other similar things |
| 03:26.29 | JeffM | many users also leave it running on a screen session and just connect to it by screen for acctions |
| 03:26.35 | JeffM | and they get some logs that way |
| 03:27.15 | Macrosoft | keeping flags for a long time isnt against any rules, but its your server, your rules |
| 03:27.27 | QBeep | Of course. It was only an example. |
| 03:27.56 | DTRemenak | "any rules"..."your rules"...do you even read your own sentences? |
| 03:28.16 | Macrosoft | let me restate it then |
| 03:28.25 | tannerld | ~DTRemenak++ |
| 03:29.00 | DTRemenak | how about you think about what you're going to say before you type it, and read it again after you type it. then you won't need to restate so much. :) |
| 03:29.05 | Macrosoft | theres nothing unfair about holding a flag for a long time...but since its your sever, you make the rules |
| 03:29.16 | DTRemenak | see, that's a fine sentence :) |
| 03:29.19 | QBeep | Makes sense |
| 03:29.45 | awilcox | Yep. |
| 03:29.54 | QBeep | Shot limits are heavyhanded. I like the idea of implementing time limits on certain flags, because anybody using the same GM for 10 minutes is probably being pretty lame. |
| 03:30.18 | QBeep | And if I could just get full player info from a console, I could do it with nothing but Perl. |
| 03:30.24 | Macrosoft | yeah, maybe you should try to add a time limit plugin |
| 03:31.28 | Macrosoft | by the way, how do you set shot limits for certain flags |
| 03:31.30 | blast007 | :) |
| 03:31.30 | QBeep | Jeffm: am I being lame? |
| 03:31.31 | tannerld | JeffM: heh |
| 03:31.36 | JeffM | I mean HOLY CRAP |
| 03:31.37 | DTRemenak | QBeep: you're fine |
| 03:31.51 | JeffM | it has to be something in the water |
| 03:31.57 | DTRemenak | you have thought-out technical questions, nothing wrong with that |
| 03:32.04 | JeffM | or do they do head beatings in schools these days? |
| 03:32.11 | DTRemenak | JeffM: maybe they ought to |
| 03:32.21 | QBeep | You must be talking about "WE ARE TEH MAP DEVELOPMENT GROUP". |
| 03:32.25 | DTRemenak | I think JeffM is referring to bzbb |
| 03:32.26 | JeffM | no |
| 03:32.27 | tannerld | Macrosoft: -sl WG 2 (I think) |
| 03:32.29 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:32.43 | DTRemenak | things like "if ur admin click here" |
| 03:32.54 | JeffM | and the admin recruit stuff |
| 03:33.01 | blast007 | JeffM: can i b admin plz!!!!!1111 i r cool and have big fun!!! |
| 03:33.04 | Macrosoft | ok, so i would replace "WG" with the abbr. of the flag i want to limit |
| 03:33.17 | DTRemenak | yes |
| 03:33.21 | QBeep | I've been wondering if maybe the aerg rush of preteen nuts on BZBB is just a couple of griefers with lots of email accounts. |
| 03:33.22 | Macrosoft | ok, thanks |
| 03:33.28 | QBeep | *zerg |
| 03:33.33 | blast007 | awilcox: hehe |
| 03:33.40 | DTRemenak | QBeep: it's the end of the school year |
| 03:33.42 | awilcox | blast007: :D |
| 03:33.43 | DTRemenak | happens every year |
| 03:34.00 | Macrosoft | ha, underclassmen |
| 03:34.04 | QBeep | Wow. At least we know it ends every year, too, then. |
| 03:34.07 | DTRemenak | generally JeffM went banhammer around this time |
| 03:34.23 | Macrosoft | i got out two weeks before they did |
| 03:34.29 | awilcox | JeffM: Must be nice to not wear that @ badge anymores. |
| 03:35.00 | JeffM | less to care about |
| 03:35.11 | tannerld | QBeep: why perl? |
| 03:35.19 | JeffM | but yeah, if it was me, I'd have gone and removed/repremanded them all |
| 03:35.24 | QBeep | perl is what I know |
| 03:35.31 | JeffM | first PM warning does it usualy |
| 03:35.41 | tannerld | ah |
| 03:35.42 | DTRemenak | yeah, L4m3r's been getting into the warning groove I think |
| 03:36.06 | awilcox | Duh. |
| 03:36.08 | awilcox | Look at his nick. |
| 03:36.32 | awilcox | He's a L4m3r. |
| 03:36.34 | QBeep | Hm? L4m3r contributes a lot. |
| 03:36.40 | awilcox | oh. |
| 03:36.47 | QBeep | Think of his nick as humble self-deprecation. |
| 03:36.47 | awilcox | I thought DTRemenak meant that L4m3r has been getting warnings |
| 03:36.48 | Macrosoft | hes in GSoC |
| 03:36.55 | DTRemenak | awilcox: as in L4m3r is GIVING a lot of warnings to people |
| 03:36.58 | DTRemenak | he's a board admin |
| 03:37.00 | awilcox | DTRemenak: :O |
| 03:37.05 | awilcox | Oops, I think I just got pwned. |
| 03:37.11 | QBeep | He's been picking up the slack on BZBB by warning goofballs over PM |
| 03:37.22 | awilcox | \o/ |
| 03:37.47 | awilcox | double pwned. |
| 03:38.14 | L4m3r | lol |
| 03:38.18 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 03:38.25 | L4m3r | anyway, brb, serving strawberry horchata to floormates |
| 03:38.30 | awilcox | Okay. |
| 03:38.31 | DTRemenak | awilcox: you've heard the proverb "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt", right? :) |
| 03:38.40 | QBeep | You see, he really is a nice guy, unlike me. |
| 03:38.47 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Lol, I have now. |
| 03:39.07 | awilcox | Or, in simple words: Triple pwned. |
| 03:39.17 | Macrosoft | that would have been useful about 18 years ago |
| 03:39.22 | awilcox | QBeep: Aw, from what I've seen you're a nice guy. |
| 03:39.39 | QBeep | You can never tell. I could be really creepy. |
| 03:39.40 | tannerld | Macrosoft: for who? |
| 03:39.44 | Macrosoft | me |
| 03:40.00 | L4m3r | [c] /me snickers |
| 03:40.17 | Macrosoft | [c]? |
| 03:40.23 | awilcox | Hey chillin! |
| 03:40.25 | L4m3r | [c] well, i s'pose chuckes is more accurate |
| 03:40.36 | L4m3r | umm... who is awilcox? |
| 03:40.43 | DTRemenak | AWOS* |
| 03:40.48 | Macrosoft | whats the [c] ? |
| 03:40.51 | L4m3r | Macrosoft: [c] = chillin using L4m3r's nick |
| 03:40.53 | AWOSDev | Hi chillin. |
| 03:41.00 | L4m3r | hiya awos |
| 03:41.00 | QBeep | He's gone to copyrighting everything he says. |
| 03:41.15 | awilcox | QBeep: Lol. |
| 03:41.30 | QBeep | So he can sue Bash someday |
| 03:41.35 | DTRemenak | technically it's all copyrighted the moment he says it anyway |
| 03:41.43 | QBeep | True |
| 03:41.52 | L4m3r | [c] heh, oooh. /me was very confused |
| 03:41.54 | awilcox | QBeep: Sue bash!? Nah. |
| 03:41.57 | DTRemenak | since it's easily arguable that irc is a medium of publication |
| 03:42.16 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Wow. Interesting Theory<tm>. |
| 03:42.42 | DTRemenak | trademark law is quite different, awilcox :) |
| 03:42.56 | awilcox | Aw, so I guess using that wasn't a Good Idea<tm>. |
| 03:43.02 | awilcox | DTRemenak: :D |
| 03:43.02 | DTRemenak | you need to be actively providing a product or service under a given brand name, or register it explicitly |
| 03:43.10 | L4m3r | [c] AWOSDev - how is your nick supposed to be pronounced? |
| 03:43.20 | awilcox | L4m3r: a wilcox. |
| 03:43.30 | awilcox | L4m3r: i.e. A. Wilcox (my name) |
| 03:43.38 | awilcox | Will cocks. |
| 03:43.40 | L4m3r | [c] umm... pronounced? |
| 03:43.42 | Macrosoft | Macro Soft |
| 03:43.49 | awilcox | Eh Will Cocks. |
| 03:44.00 | L4m3r | [c] lol, Macrosoft |
| 03:44.11 | awilcox | Macrosoft: hehe |
| 03:44.29 | awilcox | chillin: does "Eh Will Cocks" help? |
| 03:44.33 | awilcox | or did you mean AWOSDev? |
| 03:44.39 | L4m3r | [c] the later, silly |
| 03:44.42 | Macrosoft | only if he's canadian |
| 03:44.44 | awilcox | that would be Eh Wose Dev. |
| 03:44.45 | QBeep | presumably, it's [schwa]'w[schwa]Lco/ks |
| 03:44.50 | L4m3r | [c] the former is self explanatory |
| 03:44.50 | Macrosoft | "EH" |
| 03:45.02 | L4m3r | [c] lol |
| 03:45.04 | awilcox | I need to record my voice. |
| 03:45.07 | awilcox | Macrosoft: lol |
| 03:45.12 | L4m3r | [c] hiya q |
| 03:45.17 | L4m3r | [c] or, beep |
| 03:45.23 | Macrosoft | canada= "C" eh "N" eh "D" eh |
| 03:45.35 | Macrosoft | get it? |
| 03:45.44 | L4m3r | [c] /me goes back to studying for her 8am final tomorrow :O |
| 03:45.47 | QBeep | hey chillin |
| 03:45.50 | L4m3r | [c] eeeeek, so not ready |
| 03:46.08 | QBeep | get off IRC and go make sure real life doesn't fall apart plxkthx |
| 03:46.52 | L4m3r | [c] :P |
| 03:47.28 | awilcox | chillin: http://awos.sourceforge.net/awos.mp3 |
| 03:47.38 | L4m3r | [c] lol, tannerld, do you know who me/[c] is? |
| 03:47.54 | Macrosoft | _NEWS: MDK_x86_0 will be going offline sometime late september |
| 03:48.08 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Huh? The letters are boxes in terminal |
| 03:48.24 | tannerld | L4m3r: lamer? |
| 03:48.31 | DTRemenak | awilcox: you should install a good unicode console font :) |
| 03:48.31 | QBeep | DTRemenak, just when I try to act all erudite, you bust out the Greek and pwn me. |
| 03:48.36 | L4m3r | [c] = chillin talking on L4m3r's nick |
| 03:48.38 | DTRemenak | QBeep: not greek, IPA |
| 03:48.46 | awilcox | DTRemanak: Hehe, actually not sure how. |
| 03:48.47 | DTRemenak | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet |
| 03:48.48 | L4m3r | [c] e.g., this is not currently L4m3r |
| 03:48.55 | tannerld | hmmm |
| 03:48.57 | awilcox | Yeah, IPA, I know that |
| 03:49.04 | tannerld | you messed up the time machine didn't you? :P |
| 03:49.06 | L4m3r | [c] ask someone who knows me :P |
| 03:49.09 | awilcox | tannerld: Ya know. Chillin. The dude's gf? |
| 03:49.14 | L4m3r | [c] lol |
| 03:49.16 | DTRemenak | the best way of representing sounds without bringing culturolinguistic biases into it |
| 03:49.18 | blast007 | GeForce? |
| 03:49.32 | DTRemenak | awilcox: 'twas for QBeep's benefit, not yours |
| 03:49.34 | awilcox | blast007: lol |
| 03:49.39 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Oh okay. |
| 03:49.48 | QBeep | I'm impressed. |
| 03:49.52 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Bring culturolinguistic biases into it, and give me the stupid thing in ANSI |
| 03:50.03 | awilcox | :P |
| 03:50.11 | DTRemenak | ay-wass-dev, rather than a-wose-dev |
| 03:50.19 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Ay-wass. Lol. |
| 03:50.25 | awilcox | Yeah, it's A-wose. |
| 03:51.02 | awilcox | As you'll hear on the 4KB MP3. |
| 03:51.06 | awilcox | http://awos.sf.net/awos.mp3 |
| 03:51.23 | DTRemenak | I used the A as in A. Wilcox, and os as in boss |
| 03:51.36 | L4m3r | tannerld: I'm back |
| 03:51.42 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Yes, I got that. |
| 03:51.49 | awilcox | It's wose. |
| 03:51.53 | awilcox | Like "close" |
| 03:51.56 | DTRemenak | so I gathered |
| 03:51.56 | awilcox | or "comatose" |
| 03:51.56 | L4m3r | chillin uses my nick sometimes when I'm not looking |
| 03:52.00 | tannerld | L4m3r: O.o |
| 03:52.01 | tannerld | lol |
| 03:52.04 | DTRemenak | mmm, comatose |
| 03:52.08 | awilcox | Lol. |
| 03:52.10 | awilcox | Bad example./ |
| 03:52.18 | awilcox | s$/$$ |
| 03:54.01 | *** part/#bzflag The_Unix_Geek (n=The_Unix@c-24-5-83-207.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:54.53 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) |
| 03:54.59 | jude- | hello all |
| 03:55.07 | tannerld | hi jude- |
| 03:55.59 | Macrosoft | greetings |
| 03:59.55 | Macrosoft | ... |
| 04:00.44 | DTRemenak | because there was no need to continue talking |
| 04:00.54 | tannerld | bed time. |
| 04:04.36 | jude- | where? |
| 04:04.44 | DTRemenak | include/objects |
| 04:04.47 | jude- | oh |
| 04:04.48 | jude- | that |
| 04:04.49 | jude- | yeah |
| 04:05.46 | DTRemenak | it's more efficient to have them there from the beginning...just remember, smart compilers only rebuild cpp files when they change, but they rebuild EVERY file that includes a header, if the header changes |
| 04:09.19 | DTRemenak | but it's not my time it's wasting, so you're welcome to do whatever :) |
| 04:09.19 | jude- | it's faster for me to edit the code if its in one file |
| 04:09.20 | jude- | instead of two |
| 04:09.20 | DTRemenak | ok |
| 04:09.20 | jude- | also, it takes about 8 seconds for the project to build on my system |
| 04:09.21 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 04:09.21 | Macrosoft | so, jude-, how did you learn C++ (what method did you use |
| 04:09.21 | Macrosoft | ) |
| 04:09.22 | jude- | learned C first |
| 04:09.22 | jude- | read C++ books |
| 04:09.23 | jude- | learned Java (much better at object orientation than C++ IMH) |
| 04:09.23 | jude- | *IMHO |
| 04:09.24 | jude- | then understood how to use classes more efficiently in C++ :) |
| 04:09.24 | Macrosoft | i like taking classes, it forces me to practice coding |
| 04:09.24 | jude- | I meant C++ classes (i.e. objects) |
| 04:09.26 | jude- | not school classes |
| 04:09.26 | Macrosoft | i know |
| 04:09.26 | jude- | kk |
| 04:09.37 | jude- | DTRemenak, I know |
| 04:09.38 | Macrosoft | i just meant that i liked learning it in school |
| 04:09.38 | jude- | it's a stop-gap until I can find something better |
| 04:09.45 | DTRemenak | return (string(buff).c_str()); <-- string object is not guaranteed to stick around for the caller |
| 04:10.13 | jude- | it's returning a const char* not a string |
| 04:10.17 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 04:10.18 | Macrosoft | they force us to practice by assigning us pointless little programs so we are familiar with the entire language |
| 04:10.25 | DTRemenak | a const char* to a buffer allocated...by the string |
| 04:10.33 | DTRemenak | if the string goes, so does the buffer |
| 04:10.47 | jude- | like I said, if I can find a better way, I'll use it |
| 04:10.49 | JeffM | if it has to stay, return a copy |
| 04:11.37 | jude- | I asked once before if there was a way to convert a float to a string :) |
| 04:11.41 | jude- | I didn't get a useful answer |
| 04:11.48 | jude- | so I improvides a (rather bad) solution |
| 04:11.49 | DTRemenak | think about what the code actually does...allocates a string, takes a pointer to a buffer member in that string, and returns the pointer. it'll work on any sane implementation of stl, because sane implementations don't destroy objects during return statements |
| 04:12.02 | DTRemenak | but valgrind/memcheck/purify would all choke on it |
| 04:12.28 | jude- | *improvised |
| 04:12.30 | jude- | right |
| 04:12.37 | Macrosoft | maybe use pointer arrays |
| 04:12.43 | jude- | eww |
| 04:13.04 | Macrosoft | char* [] |
| 04:13.13 | DTRemenak | traditional thinking is to require the buffer to be allocated by the caller, pass the pointer in, and write to that buffer, but you don't gain anything on sprintf that way |
| 04:13.30 | DTRemenak | better would be returning std::string&, because then the object itself is preserved through the call |
| 04:14.13 | jude- | how so? |
| 04:14.54 | DTRemenak | 'cause you're telling the compiler "I want to return a string (coincidentally, don't copy it)" |
| 04:15.08 | jude- | when will the destructor be called? |
| 04:15.09 | DTRemenak | so it says "I need to have a string to return |
| 04:15.15 | DTRemenak | at the end of the calling function |
| 04:15.32 | jude- | that was confusing me for a while... |
| 04:15.37 | DTRemenak | it essentially pushes the scope out a level |
| 04:15.43 | jude- | goodie |
| 04:16.00 | DTRemenak | test it first, I dunno if it'll actually work :) |
| 04:16.11 | DTRemenak | theoretically it should |
| 04:16.38 | DTRemenak | the other option is to use textutils from bzflag |
| 04:16.47 | DTRemenak | which has it all figgered out already |
| 04:17.02 | jude- | tried that, couldn't get it to build |
| 04:17.18 | DTRemenak | hm, it ought to build standalone |
| 04:17.22 | jude- | nope |
| 04:17.25 | DTRemenak | it gets used in bunches of plugins |
| 04:17.36 | jude- | not the copy I have |
| 04:17.38 | DTRemenak | what'd it choke on? |
| 04:17.45 | jude- | needs a bunch of other header files |
| 04:18.02 | jude- | I can't recall exactly--I removed it from the tree a while ago (never committed it) |
| 04:18.15 | jude- | want me to add it in and pastebin the errors |
| 04:18.16 | jude- | ? |
| 04:18.33 | DTRemenak | should just depend on common, and you can remove that dependency |
| 04:18.41 | DTRemenak | sure, if you want |
| 04:18.46 | jude- | I tried adding common.h as well; didn't help |
| 04:19.05 | jude- | before I do it, though, I need ftoa() to return a const char* |
| 04:19.14 | jude- | that's how its used throughout the program |
| 04:19.19 | jude- | any *safe* way to do that? |
| 04:19.28 | jude- | short of having the caller allocate memory beforehand? |
| 04:19.34 | DTRemenak | nope :) |
| 04:19.41 | DTRemenak | static buffer |
| 04:19.50 | jude- | that sounds relatively safe... |
| 04:19.51 | DTRemenak | then you lose threadsafety |
| 04:20.00 | jude- | (aside from that) |
| 04:20.11 | DTRemenak | and it's hecka ugly :) (but that can be endured) |
| 04:20.20 | jude- | I'm not even sure BZWB needs to be multithreaded |
| 04:20.29 | jude- | FLTK runs in its own thread system |
| 04:20.38 | DTRemenak | better question is why it needs to return const char*'s |
| 04:20.49 | jude- | that's how the rest of the program is set up |
| 04:20.55 | jude- | almost no methods take string arguments |
| 04:21.02 | DTRemenak | why is it set up that way? |
| 04:21.13 | DTRemenak | (just curiosity here, there are some good reasons for it) |
| 04:21.28 | jude- | because passing a string to the stack is wasteful, and passing string& requires an extra line and variable to create the string |
| 04:21.32 | jude- | before it can be referenced |
| 04:21.48 | DTRemenak | huh? |
| 04:22.02 | jude- | what's confusing? |
| 04:22.09 | DTRemenak | why string& requires an extra line |
| 04:22.14 | jude- | ah |
| 04:22.20 | jude- | say I have a method foo(string& bar) |
| 04:22.25 | jude- | I can't do this: |
| 04:22.32 | jude- | foo( string("my string") ); |
| 04:22.36 | jude- | it annoys me |
| 04:22.47 | DTRemenak | ah, yeah, can't pass temp references |
| 04:22.49 | jude- | I have to do this: |
| 04:23.03 | jude- | string mystring = string("my string"); foo(mystring); |
| 04:23.44 | jude- | and that's annoying |
| 04:23.51 | Macrosoft | can't just declare it earlier and use that same string each time? |
| 04:24.14 | jude- | I'm trying to eliminate the need to initialize a string |
| 04:24.24 | jude- | because it wastes my time to type it out :) |
| 04:24.55 | Macrosoft | make a function that does it for you |
| 04:25.28 | jude- | also wasteful |
| 04:25.32 | jude- | unless it's inlined |
| 04:25.59 | DTRemenak | #define's ftw? :P |
| 04:26.06 | Macrosoft | it would be a small function, so go ahead and make it inline |
| 04:26.09 | DTRemenak | (just kidding, honestly :) ) |
| 04:26.21 | jude- | lol |
| 04:26.30 | Macrosoft | wouldnt make file size go up too much |
| 04:26.33 | jude- | that actually occured to me a few times |
| 04:26.37 | DTRemenak | jude-: if you like doing it that way, that's fine. char*'s are cool if you keep track of mallocs and frees |
| 04:26.57 | jude- | mostly what I do is utilize the string's c_str() method |
| 04:27.18 | DTRemenak | yeah, and that's dangerous, 'cause the string can go out of scope and you lose your buffer :) |
| 04:27.18 | jude- | and let the string object handle mallocs and frees for me :) |
| 04:27.27 | jude- | I'm careful of that |
| 04:27.49 | jude- | the only places ftoa() gets used is in each object's update() method |
| 04:27.57 | jude- | and toString() method |
| 04:28.03 | jude- | just to turn numerical data into a string |
| 04:28.19 | jude- | (not so much in update() as toString()) |
| 04:28.49 | Macrosoft | fstrinit(string ssample) {return ssample;} |
| 04:29.07 | Macrosoft | foo(fstrinit("mystring")); |
| 04:29.23 | jude- | error |
| 04:29.26 | Macrosoft | try that, correct me if im being an idiot |
| 04:29.35 | jude- | you're not being an idiot |
| 04:29.41 | jude- | no one's an idiot for trying |
| 04:29.51 | jude- | but "mystring" isn't automatically turned into string |
| 04:29.59 | jude- | you get an error |
| 04:30.42 | Macrosoft | does the argument to foo() have to be a pointer |
| 04:31.00 | jude- | it's good to pass references or pointers instead of the object itself |
| 04:31.03 | DTRemenak | though you don't need to use an explicit constructor on every string you do, jude- ... std::string has an operator=(char*) defined |
| 04:31.11 | jude- | I know |
| 04:31.19 | jude- | but Macrosoft's method won't work |
| 04:31.26 | DTRemenak | yeah, I know that too |
| 04:31.36 | jude- | maybe if he tweaked it... |
| 04:31.45 | DTRemenak | just wanted to make sure you knew, 'cause you used one above where it wasn't necessary :) |
| 04:31.57 | jude- | yup |
| 04:32.01 | Macrosoft | you could declare a string named strallpurpose at the beginning of the program |
| 04:32.16 | jude- | but then it can confuse future developers |
| 04:32.27 | DTRemenak | and I was trying to figure out why I got no output, and just happened to see a couple in the code too |
| 04:32.38 | DTRemenak | Macrosoft: that is extremely bad style |
| 04:33.00 | jude- | no output? |
| 04:33.31 | DTRemenak | yeah, turns out you don't create a window, and I have it building as a full windows program |
| 04:33.45 | jude- | nope. The GUI is disabled |
| 04:33.51 | jude- | intentionally |
| 04:33.57 | DTRemenak | yup, saw that |
| 04:33.58 | Macrosoft | then put a comment after the declaration explaining why its neccesary |
| 04:34.09 | jude- | it's in the commit log... |
| 04:34.13 | DTRemenak | Macrosoft: comments do not excuse bad style |
| 04:34.39 | DTRemenak | and as for the no output thing, anyone on a decent operating system would have gotten output |
| 04:35.03 | DTRemenak | but windows has a nasty habit of surpressing stdout unless it's built as a console app |
| 04:35.15 | jude- | I bet that's annoying |
| 04:35.25 | Macrosoft | switch to linux |
| 04:35.25 | jude- | there's not much to see now... |
| 04:35.39 | jude- | all that happens is a bunch of objects get printed out in BZW format |
| 04:35.41 | jude- | twice |
| 04:35.50 | DTRemenak | Macrosoft: it's already being tested on linux, what would be the point of that? |
| 04:36.16 | Macrosoft | i was talking about the suppressed strdout |
| 04:36.18 | jude- | the first time is the result of the toString() method just after the constructor is called, and the second time is the result of toString() after update() has been called with a string containing BZW data |
| 04:36.43 | jude- | it's a test of each object's ability to parse itself from an input string |
| 04:36.48 | jude- | and to output its data |
| 04:36.52 | jude- | in BZW format |
| 04:37.14 | jude- | main.cpp is more interesting |
| 04:37.30 | jude- | try to play around with the input strings if you want. it should be able to catch syntax errors |
| 04:40.07 | DTRemenak | another disadvantage of all the code in headers is that warnings are repeated, over and over and over again :) |
| 04:40.15 | jude- | yup |
| 04:40.32 | jude- | but Eclipse solves that issue by simply underlining lines of code that have errors |
| 04:40.45 | jude- | so I don't need to look at GCC's output as often |
| 04:40.52 | Macrosoft | Eclipse? |
| 04:40.57 | jude- | the IDE I'm using |
| 04:41.00 | jude- | www.eclipse.org |
| 04:41.01 | DTRemenak | do you have a centralized header file where portability stuff can be stashed? |
| 04:41.05 | Macrosoft | is ir free? |
| 04:41.10 | Macrosoft | *it |
| 04:41.11 | jude- | Macrosoft: yes |
| 04:41.19 | jude- | portability stuff? |
| 04:41.42 | jude- | could you give an example? |
| 04:42.04 | DTRemenak | sure, #define _CRT_SECURE_NO_DEPRECATE |
| 04:42.52 | jude- | not yet... |
| 04:42.56 | jude- | what does that macro do? |
| 04:43.02 | DTRemenak | lets sprintf work :) |
| 04:43.08 | DTRemenak | among other functions |
| 04:43.11 | jude- | it works already, though |
| 04:43.14 | DTRemenak | not on vc |
| 04:43.27 | jude- | weird. why not? |
| 04:43.29 | DTRemenak | sprintf is marked as "insecure and therefore deprecated" |
| 04:43.43 | jude- | lol |
| 04:43.47 | DTRemenak | they want you to use snprintf or lsprintf instead |
| 04:43.59 | jude- | are those safer? |
| 04:44.10 | DTRemenak | yeah, they do length checking, so no buffer overruns |
| 04:44.32 | jude- | are they in stdlib? |
| 04:44.39 | jude- | or some other cross-platform lib? |
| 04:44.39 | DTRemenak | they're also more expensive and generally nonportable |
| 04:45.01 | jude- | that's too bad |
| 04:45.02 | DTRemenak | snprintf is crossplatform, but microsoft decided to call it _snprintf, so you need a define for that to work too :) |
| 04:45.19 | jude- | hmmm.... |
| 04:45.23 | jude- | I do have a defines.h |
| 04:45.26 | jude- | where global stuff goes |
| 04:45.30 | jude- | I could put the macro there... |
| 04:45.50 | DTRemenak | there's bound to be other stuff, on windows and other platforms |
| 04:45.59 | DTRemenak | bzflag has common.h and config.h for a reason :) |
| 04:46.17 | jude- | in my defense, the prog isn't even ready for an alpha |
| 04:46.24 | DTRemenak | yup, I know :) |
| 04:46.33 | jude- | so I'm putting that off until later :) |
| 04:46.54 | DTRemenak | that's one reason I'm beating on it now...want to make sure you're aware of the various issues you will run into, before you have a bazillion instances of each one that you have to go fix :) |
| 04:47.19 | jude- | any other tweaks you can think of? |
| 04:47.36 | jude- | btw, I've modified ftoa() |
| 04:47.42 | jude- | inline const char* ftoa(float f) { static char buff[30]; memset(buff, 0, 30); sprintf(buff, "%f", f); return buff; |
| 04:47.45 | jude- | } |
| 04:47.50 | DTRemenak | when you assign constants to floats, please use the f specifier (i.e. float x = 1.12f, not float x = 1.12) |
| 04:48.14 | jude- | does vc complain about that too? |
| 04:48.26 | DTRemenak | yup, "truncation from double to float, possible loss of data" |
| 04:48.44 | jude- | I mean, does it fail to compile? |
| 04:48.46 | DTRemenak | you'd think it'd be smart enough to do constants itself |
| 04:48.58 | DTRemenak | umm...yes, but only because I have warnings-as-errors enabled :) |
| 04:49.06 | jude- | lol |
| 04:49.39 | DTRemenak | also in your defense, I get more warnings from fltk than from your code |
| 04:49.46 | jude- | lol |
| 04:49.54 | DTRemenak | they seem to assume * and long are the same size |
| 04:50.13 | jude- | in 32-bit systems, they are |
| 04:50.14 | DTRemenak | which is not the case on 64-bit archs |
| 04:50.21 | jude- | yup |
| 04:50.25 | jude- | that can be problematic :) |
| 04:50.33 | DTRemenak | I imagine they'll have that fixed sometime |
| 04:50.41 | jude- | fltk 2.0 is due out soon... |
| 04:51.12 | DTRemenak | the other common warning I run into from your code is from atof, which returns a double (you can see where that's going) |
| 04:51.22 | jude- | *groan* |
| 04:51.26 | jude- | why's it called atof then? |
| 04:51.32 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 04:51.38 | jude- | should there be an atod? |
| 04:52.01 | jude- | (yes, I know it returns double) |
| 04:52.39 | jude- | hmm...I'm not sure zone is parsing "team" correctly... |
| 04:52.39 | DTRemenak | the sad thing is that the only way that I know of to prevent that is an explicit cast. and that's just ugly, and I can't possibly see you being willing to do it :) |
| 04:53.12 | jude- | I can't see my mentor allowing me to commit it if I were to do that :) |
| 04:53.18 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 04:53.39 | DTRemenak | the other option to prevent it is "use doubles" |
| 04:53.51 | jude- | where does that go? |
| 04:53.59 | DTRemenak | no, I mean, use doubles :) |
| 04:54.03 | jude- | oh |
| 04:54.09 | jude- | I thought you meant a compiler option |
| 04:54.18 | DTRemenak | instead of float x = atof("1");, double x = atof("1"); |
| 04:54.19 | DTRemenak | nope |
| 04:54.39 | jude- | doesn't bzfs expect floats instead of doubles, though? |
| 04:54.50 | DTRemenak | and I wouldn't ask you to do that either. I think bzflag uses floats internally to represent the world anyway, and there's no reason to use more precision than bzflag can handle |
| 04:54.51 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 04:54.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 04:55.06 | jude- | that's what I was concerned about :) |
| 04:55.09 | DTRemenak | it doesn't really "expect" anything, it just truncates them |
| 04:55.22 | jude- | s/expect/use |
| 04:57.12 | DTRemenak | ah, one more little thing that's pretty easy to deal with, and a good habit to get into... use bool x = (int y == 0 ? false : true) instead of (bool x = int y) |
| 04:57.49 | DTRemenak | the first one is a simple JMP assembly instruction, the second is a cast |
| 04:58.08 | jude- | did I use (bool x = int y) or similar anywhere? |
| 04:58.14 | jude- | I tried to stick with the former method.. |
| 04:58.21 | DTRemenak | yeah, there are a couple |
| 04:58.25 | jude- | where? |
| 04:58.44 | DTRemenak | transformwidget.h:107 |
| 04:59.13 | jude- | activebutton->value() doesn't return a bool? |
| 04:59.25 | DTRemenak | no, it returns char |
| 04:59.59 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 05:00.09 | jude- | huh |
| 05:00.11 | DTRemenak | hmm, actually that looks like the only one |
| 05:00.16 | DTRemenak | it's just repeated a bunch of times |
| 05:00.53 | jude- | I'll change them once they're pretty much working |
| 05:00.57 | jude- | don't worry :) |
| 05:01.14 | DTRemenak | I know, I know :) |
| 05:01.33 | DTRemenak | note that I was not shaking my fist at *you*, which I'm apt to do if I think you did something downright stupid :) |
| 05:01.42 | jude- | I'm just grateful you haven't told me to retract it for violating the DEVINFO rules :) |
| 05:02.12 | DTRemenak | DEVINFO applies to main branch bzflag. other modules are free to use their own style rules. |
| 05:02.24 | jude- | sweet |
| 05:02.30 | jude- | I thought it was for all modules |
| 05:02.37 | DTRemenak | if you commit to bzflag proper I WILL hold you to our funky indentation and bracketting standards :) |
| 05:02.42 | jude- | lol |
| 05:02.48 | Macrosoft | it looks like you're getting paid well for 3 months of coding |
| 05:02.56 | Macrosoft | $4500 |
| 05:03.03 | jude- | but I have to pay taxes on it |
| 05:03.24 | Macrosoft | oh yeah, then take of about half of it :) |
| 05:03.36 | jude- | something like that |
| 05:04.16 | Macrosoft | before taxes, its still more than i make in 3 months |
| 05:04.17 | DTRemenak | and you do have commit access to everything, and may use it if you'd like (just follow DEVINFO and be prepared to revert if asked to) |
| 05:04.54 | jude- | DTRemenak, if I commit to the BZFlag proper, that'll be inevitable :) |
| 05:05.10 | DTRemenak | :D |
| 05:05.57 | DTRemenak | hmm, and I thought I'd gotten rid of that one before. is there a particular reason "this" snuck back into the WorldOptionsDialog initialization list? |
| 05:06.10 | DTRemenak | heh, drawinfo is a beast :) |
| 05:06.23 | jude- | wait, what about the WOD? |
| 05:06.29 | DTRemenak | Fl_Dialog("World Options", this->WIDTH, this->HEIGHT, Fl_Dialog::Fl_OK | Fl_Dialog::Fl_CANCEL) |
| 05:06.45 | DTRemenak | "this" is illegal in a base member initialization list |
| 05:06.58 | jude- | probably because I haven't checked out the source? |
| 05:07.08 | jude- | I was unaware that others were committing to the same module |
| 05:07.10 | DTRemenak | svn update is good :) |
| 05:07.18 | DTRemenak | automatically merges changes |
| 05:07.36 | DTRemenak | I committed once, to highlight some portability things |
| 05:07.48 | DTRemenak | with a lengthy commit message even :) |
| 05:07.59 | DTRemenak | oh, and I committed the VC8 stuff |
| 05:08.01 | *** part/#bzflag Joss (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 05:08.16 | DTRemenak | I thought you were aware, sorry |
| 05:08.33 | DTRemenak | totally my fault if you weren't |
| 05:08.43 | jude- | how so? I'm the idiot that didn't check his e-mail :) |
| 05:09.02 | DTRemenak | no, I should have let you know :) not like there's a separate mail list for bzwb :) |
| 05:09.17 | DTRemenak | but yeah, svn update before svn commit is a really good habit to get into |
| 05:09.17 | jude- | I still get e-mail from bzflag commits, though |
| 05:09.50 | DTRemenak | well you've already trampled the WOD changes, but that's cool...the commit message says what it was |
| 05:10.32 | DTRemenak | basically you can't use "this" when initializing a base class. since they're static, I had changed them from "this->HEIGHT" to "WorldOptionsDialog::HEIGHT" |
| 05:11.07 | jude- | I see |
| 05:11.17 | DTRemenak | the reason I asked if there was a particular reason they were backed out was, I'm not entirely sure gcc will like the explicit reference in the initialization list :) |
| 05:11.59 | jude- | it didn't seem to mind...the dialog works fine |
| 05:12.02 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 05:12.30 | jude- | but still... |
| 05:13.26 | jude- | hmm..."svn: Directory 'Debug/.svn' containing working copy admin area is missing" |
| 05:13.45 | DTRemenak | hmm, that's an odd message |
| 05:13.58 | jude- | svn add just tells me it's already under version control |
| 05:14.22 | DTRemenak | could be a directory conflict then... wonder if someone else has committed also |
| 05:14.41 | jude- | yes--some people have tweaked the makefile |
| 05:14.46 | jude- | which is under Debug |
| 05:15.42 | DTRemenak | just mods to files though, nothing that should cause a problem |
| 05:16.21 | DTRemenak | hmm...it could be that eclipse purged the .svn folder |
| 05:16.30 | DTRemenak | if it has an equivalent of "make clean" or some such |
| 05:18.07 | jude- | now I get this: |
| 05:18.08 | jude- | svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/bzflag/!svn/vcc/default' |
| 05:18.08 | jude- | svn: Working copy path 'Debug' does not exist in repository |
| 05:19.20 | DTRemenak | what command are you using? |
| 05:19.24 | jude- | svn update |
| 05:19.38 | DTRemenak | and you're in the bzworkbench folder? |
| 05:19.56 | DTRemenak | and not passing any uri's to svn, I assume |
| 05:20.12 | jude- | uri? |
| 05:20.27 | DTRemenak | url+urn = uri |
| 05:20.34 | jude- | urn? |
| 05:21.25 | DTRemenak | URNs are used for resource identification, URCs are used for metadata, and URLs are used for the location of the resource |
| 05:21.44 | jude- | I guess I'm not passing them... |
| 05:22.22 | DTRemenak | something like "svn update svn://svn.sf.net/..." would be passing a uri |
| 05:22.39 | jude- | no |
| 05:22.43 | jude- | not passing that |
| 05:22.45 | DTRemenak | all urls are uris. uris may be things other than urls (i.e. urns). |
| 05:22.48 | awilcox | jude-: Ew. I've gotten messages like that. |
| 05:23.02 | DTRemenak | see also http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986 |
| 05:23.02 | jude- | I guess I should just commit everything and do a fresh checkout |
| 05:23.16 | awilcox | jude-: What I did, and this may be drastic...svn commit everything then rm everything |
| 05:23.24 | awilcox | jude-: Yes, that. |
| 05:23.27 | DTRemenak | that might work...but if you're missing admin data, you may miss a commit too |
| 05:23.47 | awilcox | well actually what I did was svn commit then cd to base and svn checkout |
| 05:23.50 | awilcox | with removing anything |
| 05:23.55 | DTRemenak | i.e. you may try to commit a file it doesn't think is locally under version control |
| 05:23.56 | awilcox | IIRC, that is. |
| 05:24.21 | jude- | anything that isn't code I can restore |
| 05:24.32 | jude- | i.e. I don't commit some of the eclipse auto-gen stuff |
| 05:24.59 | DTRemenak | I'd commit and check out in a different location, then diff the trees |
| 05:25.12 | awilcox | DTRemenak: That's close enough to what I did. |
| 05:25.27 | DTRemenak | might also tell you what was wrong with your old tree |
| 05:25.28 | awilcox | The svn tree was small enough that I didn't diff (I saw the changes through my CIA bot anyways) |
| 05:25.55 | awilcox | DTRemenak: Heh. I knew why. |
| 05:25.58 | awilcox | Repeat after me. |
| 05:26.04 | awilcox | "Sucky power company" |
| 05:27.01 | awilcox | Hint: Don't locally modify an svn tree through ssh then have the ssh'd computer experience a power failure. |
| 05:27.19 | DTRemenak | jude-: at some point (probably like in a month or two), I'd recommend running a script that trims EOL whitespace from your code, eclipse seems to generate a lot of it |
| 05:27.36 | jude- | right then |
| 05:27.46 | awilcox | Eclipse? |
| 05:27.48 | awilcox | that fancy IDE? |
| 05:28.03 | awilcox | generate the evil whitespace? |
| 05:28.28 | DTRemenak | vim does the same thing in different circumstances, if you have autoindent on |
| 05:29.32 | DTRemenak | every once in a while Tim runs through bz's main codebase and trims it (usually quite a bit) |
| 05:29.44 | jude- | crap |
| 05:29.45 | jude- | svn: Commit failed (details follow): |
| 05:29.45 | jude- | svn: '/home/jude/projects' is not a working copy |
| 05:29.46 | jude- | svn: Can't open file '/home/jude/projects/.svn/entries': No such file or directory |
| 05:29.57 | awilcox | jude-: Ah, your svn is screwed. |
| 05:30.02 | DTRemenak | you sure you're in the right directory? |
| 05:30.06 | jude- | yes |
| 05:30.11 | jude- | ~/projects/bzw |
| 05:30.17 | jude- | and it *still* complains |
| 05:30.33 | awilcox | jude-: checkout into a new folder, cp your changes, then rm the old directory, then mv newname oldname |
| 05:30.49 | awilcox | Like it never even happened.(R) |
| 05:31.49 | DTRemenak | jude-: do you have a top-level parser yet, or just object-level ones? |
| 05:32.47 | *** join/#bzflag lengau_ (n=lengau@c-76-22-213-228.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 05:33.21 | jude- | DTRemenak, no just object-level ones |
| 05:33.30 | DTRemenak | ok |
| 05:33.31 | jude- | I'll write the top-level one once all objects have been defined |
| 05:33.36 | jude- | still have a few left |
| 05:33.42 | DTRemenak | yup, makes sense |
| 05:36.47 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14322 10/trunk/bzworkbench/MSVC/VC8/BZWorkbench.vcproj: build with a bunch of new files and stuff. |
| 05:41.22 | jude- | okay, we're back up again |
| 05:41.27 | jude- | weird |
| 05:41.29 | DTRemenak | yay! |
| 05:42.21 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14323 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (8 files in 5 dirs): this is a test of the new svn tree |
| 05:42.33 | jude- | yup, it lives |
| 05:43.54 | jude- | thanks for the vc stuff :) |
| 05:44.33 | DTRemenak | I kinda figured :) |
| 05:44.44 | jude- | heh--it's an all-Linux shop here :) |
| 05:45.04 | jude- | this is true |
| 05:57.40 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14324 10/trunk/bzworkbench/include/objects/zone.h: fixed zone |
| 05:58.38 | Macrosoft | ... |
| 05:58.42 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 06:00.20 | *** part/#bzflag lengau_ (n=lengau@c-76-22-213-228.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 06:04.28 | *** join/#bzflag dsypy (n=bob@dsl092-247-216.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 06:19.39 | jude- | ? |
| 06:19.48 | jude- | ignore that :) |
| 06:45.01 | jude- | sweet. thanks! |
| 06:49.26 | awilcox | ? |
| 06:50.09 | jude- | intended as a private message; feel free to ignore |
| 06:59.27 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-085-016-016-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 06:59.43 | eTangenT | oh boy |
| 06:59.45 | eTangenT | jude |
| 06:59.48 | eTangenT | :D |
| 07:07.01 | *** join/#bzflag jude-_ (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net) |
| 07:07.10 | jude-_ | sorry eTangenT--connection lapsed |
| 07:07.19 | jude-_ | how's it going? |
| 07:07.50 | eTangenT | well, now that you decided to show up again, quite terrible :P |
| 07:08.04 | jude- | why? |
| 07:08.07 | jude- | what's wrong? |
| 07:08.32 | eTangenT | nah |
| 07:08.34 | eTangenT | I'm fine |
| 07:08.38 | eTangenT | got tomorrow morning off |
| 07:08.41 | eTangenT | so I'm not complaining |
| 07:08.45 | jude- | nice |
| 07:08.49 | eTangenT | now the only question is what's a good dinner at 1am |
| 07:08.53 | eTangenT | cuz I've been working all night |
| 07:08.58 | jude- | ouch' |
| 07:09.16 | eTangenT | yeah |
| 07:09.27 | eTangenT | 7am - 3:30pm, 6pm - 12am |
| 07:09.38 | jude- | ouch |
| 07:09.43 | jude- | that's hazardous |
| 07:11.03 | eTangenT | probably going to quit the first job though |
| 07:11.13 | eTangenT | fast food sucks compared to my new job at the bowling alley |
| 07:11.33 | jude- | I know what you mean |
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| 09:36.15 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14325 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (85 files in 13 dirs): |
| 09:36.15 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: Added support for "weapon", but the big change here is the file heirarchy. |
| 09:36.15 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: Before now a lot of code was tied up in header files (mainly the code that |
| 09:36.15 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: governs objects), so what I've done is separated object code from interface and |
| 09:36.15 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: created .cpp files for all of them. Also, I started consoldating similar files |
| 09:36.18 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: into their own folders. |
| 09:36.58 | ruskie | hmm does bzworkbench have a description anyplace? |
| 09:37.50 | jude- | bzworkbench.wordpress.com |
| 09:40.48 | jude- | there's not much to see |
| 09:40.56 | jude- | right now, there's no active GUI |
| 09:41.20 | jude- | it just prints a bunch of stuff to demonstrate each object's ability to read, parse, and write itself in BZW format |
| 09:41.22 | ruskie | I'm looking at the plans... |
| 09:41.31 | ruskie | http://www.u.arizona.edu/~jnelson/bzworkbench.html |
| 09:41.34 | ruskie | looks nice |
| 09:41.40 | jude- | thanks :) |
| 09:42.10 | ruskie | are you making the gui part separate from the gl backend so that for example a gtk2 gui could be put in instead? |
| 09:42.18 | jude- | yes |
| 09:42.33 | jude- | the 3D GUI just needs an OpenGL rendering context |
| 09:42.54 | jude- | so as long as the 2D UI can provide that, it doesn't matter |
| 09:43.11 | jude- | I chose FLTK because it's relatively easy and painless |
| 09:44.18 | ruskie | nice |
| 09:44.45 | ruskie | it acctually looks nice... |
| 09:44.56 | ruskie | I hope I'll be able to use it to finish my labyrinth map... |
| 09:45.05 | jude- | I didn't pick gtk2 because it provides too much functionality |
| 09:45.14 | jude- | all I need is a minimal widget set |
| 09:45.26 | jude- | most of the user interaction will go through the 3D scene |
| 09:45.31 | jude- | which will be written from scratch |
| 09:45.54 | jude- | if I needed to depend more heavily on a 2D GUI, I'd have gone with gtk2 or qt |
| 09:46.05 | ruskie | will the basic movement controls be the same as with bzflag observer mode? |
| 09:46.15 | jude- | not sure, having never used observer mode |
| 09:46.20 | jude- | but that's a good idea :) |
| 09:46.27 | jude- | what are they like? |
| 09:46.39 | ruskie | arrow keys to go forward/back and rotate left/right |
| 09:46.46 | jude- | what about up/down? |
| 09:46.52 | ruskie | with shift I think up down go up/down |
| 09:47.01 | ruskie | and with control one changes the angle |
| 09:47.10 | jude- | that works |
| 09:47.47 | jude- | before, I was thinking about having the user click and drag the scene around them, and having the scroll wheel move the camera forward or backward in the direction it was facing |
| 09:48.06 | ruskie | well nobody said there can't be both :) |
| 09:48.06 | jude- | i.e. click-n-drag left causes the camera to rotate left, etc |
| 09:48.10 | jude- | indeed |
| 09:48.45 | jude- | in fact, if I have time enough, it will be possible to actually play the level within the editor |
| 09:49.14 | ruskie | overkill but ok :) |
| 09:49.25 | jude- | or at least give the user the ability to measure their level objects relative to tanks |
| 09:49.37 | jude- | i.e. a tank yardstick :) |
| 09:49.53 | ruskie | might be better to die with the editor and then spawn a bzfs and a bzflag and connect that way :) |
| 09:49.57 | ruskie | ehh |
| 09:50.13 | jude- | or that, whichever works :) |
| 09:50.16 | ruskie | my basic level design will always be on paper and then writing that into the bzw fromat by hand |
| 09:50.26 | jude- | sounds time-consuming |
| 09:50.30 | ruskie | only need tho editor for the finer things |
| 09:50.40 | jude- | I see |
| 09:50.41 | ruskie | like adding werldweapons and such |
| 09:50.49 | ruskie | it's not really |
| 09:50.54 | ruskie | I'm used to it from povray |
| 09:51.04 | ruskie | the description language isn't that much different at that |
| 09:51.17 | jude- | interesting |
| 09:51.31 | ruskie | though povrays has a lot more things :) |
| 09:51.44 | jude- | I'd imagine so |
| 09:52.32 | jude- | how'd you're exams go? |
| 09:52.37 | jude- | *your |
| 09:52.41 | ruskie | 43/100 :( |
| 09:52.48 | jude- | ouch |
| 09:52.49 | ruskie | but I'll se thursday if they missed something |
| 09:52.53 | jude- | sorry to hear that |
| 09:52.59 | jude- | what was it on? |
| 09:53.08 | ruskie | basics of computer arch I |
| 09:53.14 | ruskie | some assembler |
| 09:53.20 | ruskie | lot's of math |
| 09:53.50 | ruskie | calculating bus bandwidth, comparing two CPU's and other such things |
| 09:53.59 | jude- | wow |
| 09:54.12 | jude- | which assembler language? |
| 09:54.21 | ruskie | I'm still hoping that they missed something and that I'll get atleast the 50 I need |
| 09:54.26 | ruskie | mc68hc11 |
| 09:54.37 | jude- | that a variant on MC68000? |
| 09:54.45 | ruskie | erm |
| 09:55.15 | ruskie | don't think so... |
| 09:55.26 | ruskie | but then my interest lies in sysadmining not asm |
| 09:55.34 | ruskie | they just force all 1st year students to do it all |
| 09:55.39 | jude- | that sucks |
| 09:55.48 | ruskie | yup |
| 09:55.52 | jude- | no one except embedded programmers use assembler |
| 09:56.00 | ruskie | or hardware designers |
| 09:56.13 | jude- | even then, a lot of it can be done in C |
| 09:56.44 | ruskie | well the people that develop software for realtime applications also use asm a lot... |
| 09:56.54 | jude- | define "realtime" |
| 09:57.01 | ruskie | or stuff for cellulare networks |
| 09:57.04 | ruskie | -o |
| 09:57.07 | ruskie | bah |
| 09:57.12 | ruskie | my brain is foobared today... |
| 09:57.18 | jude- | lol |
| 09:57.34 | ruskie | ohh well I guess I'll go play for a bit... |
| 09:57.53 | jude- | heh--the general consensus in the industry is "slowness is fixed by hardware, not software" |
| 09:58.03 | ruskie | sadly yeah |
| 09:58.18 | jude- | sad for the proprietary software world |
| 09:58.25 | ruskie | FS/OSS as well |
| 09:58.37 | jude- | it doesn't seem to be as much... |
| 09:58.40 | ruskie | I remember 10 years ago when I was able to run X on a p100 faster than win95 ran |
| 09:58.49 | jude- | lol |
| 09:58.51 | ruskie | if I try that with current X I'll be waiting for a while |
| 09:59.04 | jude- | build a kdrive X server |
| 09:59.17 | jude- | no modules, no stupid xorg.conf, etc. |
| 09:59.22 | ruskie | lol |
| 09:59.40 | jude- | takes less than 30 MB |
| 09:59.44 | jude- | RAM |
| 09:59.46 | ruskie | ehh I'm wating for the Neo1973 or later |
| 09:59.50 | jude- | same |
| 09:59.58 | ruskie | I want wifi with it though |
| 10:00.04 | jude- | those will destroy the iPhone |
| 10:00.10 | jude- | it'll probably be there...can't see the devs NOT wanting it |
| 10:00.26 | ruskie | they haven't found the right chip |
| 10:00.31 | ruskie | the first version will be without |
| 10:00.37 | ruskie | the second one probably will have it |
| 10:00.41 | jude- | last time I checked they were looking at the Atheros chipset |
| 10:00.46 | ruskie | also want to buy an eink book reader... |
| 10:00.47 | ruskie | yeah |
| 10:00.57 | ruskie | found one that runs linux |
| 10:01.05 | jude- | eink reader? |
| 10:01.05 | ruskie | but the darn thing costs 300USD |
| 10:01.09 | jude- | steep |
| 10:01.15 | jude- | wait for the Neo1973 :) |
| 10:01.19 | ruskie | I'll get both |
| 10:01.22 | jude- | "only" 250USD |
| 10:01.25 | ruskie | eink is easier to read than lcds |
| 10:01.33 | jude- | ahh |
| 10:01.40 | jude- | in direct sunlight? |
| 10:01.43 | ruskie | yup |
| 10:01.47 | jude- | neat |
| 10:02.39 | ruskie | ehh |
| 10:02.43 | jude- | heh--you could roll it up and put it in your pocket :) |
| 10:02.43 | ruskie | I'll stick with eink |
| 10:02.49 | ruskie | it has no crystals or anything |
| 10:03.11 | ruskie | the display is made of a ton of tiny little balls that have different colors |
| 10:03.20 | ruskie | so there is no backlight or anything |
| 10:03.28 | jude- | nice |
| 10:03.35 | ruskie | only power it takes is when the balls need to change |
| 10:03.41 | jude- | even better :) |
| 10:03.47 | jude- | no need to constantly refresh |
| 10:03.48 | ruskie | there's an eink phone out there by motorola |
| 10:03.50 | ruskie | yup |
| 10:04.09 | ruskie | the batteries on taht thing last for a month with 300/day page turnings |
| 10:04.16 | jude- | sweet |
| 10:04.33 | ruskie | so it's worth the 300USD |
| 10:04.41 | ruskie | but I'd like to lose the touch screen support it has |
| 10:04.51 | jude- | ...as long as the Li-ion battery doesn't drain :P |
| 10:05.02 | ruskie | since I don't want that for an ebook reader |
| 10:05.19 | jude- | why lose touchscreen support? |
| 10:05.21 | ruskie | they have a lighter version of it without a lot of extras |
| 10:05.32 | ruskie | but it's not on full sale yet |
| 10:05.39 | ruskie | only to their partners |
| 10:05.43 | ruskie | I don't need it |
| 10:05.54 | ruskie | I only need it to read books... |
| 10:06.08 | jude- | I hope there are hardware buttons to turn pages :) |
| 10:06.09 | ruskie | it has some buttons to control stuff and that's all I need |
| 10:06.14 | jude- | ah good |
| 10:06.33 | ruskie | it supports a ton of formats including pdf and plaintext :) |
| 10:06.44 | ruskie | and sd cards |
| 10:06.50 | jude- | did you expect nothing less if it runs GNU/Linux? :) |
| 10:06.56 | jude- | *anything |
| 10:07.09 | ruskie | well their earlier ones don't |
| 10:07.34 | ruskie | lemme find the link... |
| 10:08.35 | ruskie | http://www.jinke.com.cn/compagesql/English/embedpro/prodetail.asp?id=40 <-- this is te one I want |
| 10:09.29 | jude- | sweet! |
| 10:09.34 | jude- | I'd so hack that device |
| 10:09.35 | ruskie | http://www.jinke.com.cn/compagesql/English/embedpro/newpro.asp <-- here are some others |
| 10:10.20 | ruskie | there's some with wifi support |
| 10:10.24 | ruskie | that would be nice to have |
| 10:10.30 | ruskie | to use as a browser as well |
| 10:10.50 | jude- | heh--you could run bzfs on that and host a small lan party :) |
| 10:10.55 | ruskie | though don't think it would be a good irc client... but one never knows... |
| 10:11.02 | jude- | or apache |
| 10:11.07 | ruskie | :) |
| 10:11.24 | jude- | it's been done |
| 10:11.28 | jude- | on similar device |
| 10:11.28 | jude- | s |
| 10:11.43 | ruskie | I'd use a gumstix for small servers :) |
| 10:11.45 | jude- | Familiar Linux and OpenZaurus both have packages for them |
| 10:12.02 | ruskie | infact I'm thinking of buying a dual-NIC gumstix to use as my firewall |
| 10:12.12 | jude- | neat |
| 10:12.29 | ruskie | which would be another 200usd or so... |
| 10:12.33 | jude- | heh |
| 10:12.35 | ruskie | I need money first though... |
| 10:12.57 | jude- | that's always the limiting factor |
| 10:13.14 | ruskie | especialy when one is a student :) |
| 10:13.28 | jude- | though for a firewall I'd probably use OpenBSD |
| 10:13.34 | ruskie | ohh well I'll see if I can get some part time job this summer someplace |
| 10:13.42 | ruskie | bah overkill |
| 10:13.49 | jude- | wait--you're still in school? This late in the year? |
| 10:14.01 | ruskie | exam season :) |
| 10:14.12 | jude- | finals? |
| 10:14.27 | ruskie | primary, secondary and high school go from 1st september till 25th of june |
| 10:14.40 | jude- | wow |
| 10:14.43 | ruskie | uni goes from 1st october to end of may then a month for first round of exams |
| 10:14.47 | jude- | I've been on summer vacation since May 17th |
| 10:14.59 | ruskie | I'm in uni |
| 10:15.02 | jude- | same here |
| 10:15.23 | ruskie | so yeah currently it's the first exam month |
| 10:15.30 | ruskie | the second exam month is in september |
| 10:15.44 | jude- | exams at the start of the year? |
| 10:15.47 | jude- | *schoolyear |
| 10:15.53 | ruskie | not in uni :) |
| 10:16.12 | ruskie | all I need is two exams done and I'm done with this year :) |
| 10:16.16 | ruskie | that's all I want... |
| 10:16.22 | ruskie | even if I just pass them... |
| 10:16.46 | jude- | wait--didn't you just say the school year started 1 October, but the exams are in september? |
| 10:16.55 | ruskie | yup |
| 10:16.56 | jude- | how? |
| 10:17.09 | ruskie | for the previous year :) |
| 10:17.23 | ruskie | school year starts' 1st of october :) |
| 10:17.32 | jude- | so, you have a summer vacation and then the exams for the previous semester...after that long break? |
| 10:17.36 | ruskie | yup |
| 10:17.41 | jude- | I pity you |
| 10:18.08 | jude- | exams for me are at the start of December and May |
| 10:18.17 | jude- | December closes the first semester; May the second |
| 10:18.25 | ruskie | yeah but you have a different school system than us |
| 10:18.34 | jude- | I figured |
| 10:18.46 | jude- | the summer break would throw me way off |
| 10:18.47 | ruskie | first semester ends mid january for us |
| 10:19.02 | ruskie | with an exam season of one month between the two |
| 10:19.27 | ruskie | but since we have some classes that span the year and not just a semester no exams for them at that tme |
| 10:19.30 | ruskie | erm time |
| 10:19.48 | jude- | very interesting |
| 10:19.56 | jude- | here, no class lasts a year |
| 10:20.01 | jude- | only a semester |
| 10:20.16 | jude- | and finals only take two weeks |
| 10:20.33 | jude- | followed by a month vacation (December) or three month vacation (May) |
| 10:20.56 | jude- | what university do you attend (if you don't mind saying it on a public IRC)? |
| 10:21.06 | ruskie | and if you fail a class in december? |
| 10:21.16 | jude- | it goes on your transcript |
| 10:21.26 | ruskie | and you do it later again? |
| 10:21.27 | jude- | it's up to you to re-schedule to take it again |
| 10:21.32 | jude- | yup |
| 10:21.33 | ruskie | ahh |
| 10:21.49 | jude- | that's discouraged--it's a waste of the student's money to fail a class |
| 10:21.52 | ruskie | universitiy of ljubljana - facululty of computer sciences and informatics |
| 10:22.00 | ruskie | jude-, free uni here still |
| 10:22.09 | ruskie | we gat 3 free tries for each class |
| 10:22.29 | ruskie | then 2-3 more payable after that a debate with the professor on what will happen... |
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| 10:23.07 | jude- | I wish college education were free in the U.S.... |
| 10:23.09 | daxxar | Hey fellas |
| 10:23.17 | jude- | *was |
| 10:23.31 | ruskie | jude-, well atleast you are encouraged to acctually discuss stuff and work on stuff |
| 10:23.32 | daxxar | Head to bed ;P |
| 10:23.34 | jude- | hello daxxar |
| 10:23.55 | jude- | ruskie, the university of arizona is paying my way for four years |
| 10:23.58 | ruskie | jude-, around here we sit for hours on end listening to the professors blabering about the exact same things that are in the books |
| 10:24.01 | jude- | academic scholarship |
| 10:24.13 | jude- | not too different in some cases here |
| 10:24.39 | ruskie | of course attendance in classes is optional around here... |
| 10:24.44 | jude- | same here |
| 10:24.56 | ruskie | as long as you do the required things |
| 10:25.17 | jude- | no one keeps students in college in the US--they're required to do it all on their own free will |
| 10:25.35 | jude- | but the cost of tuition is usually a good motivator :) |
| 10:25.50 | ruskie | http://www.fri.uni-lj.si/en <-- here's where I go to |
| 10:26.26 | ruskie | jude-, I guess... personaly I'd be more willing to go if I was acctually able to pick and choose the stuff I want to study... |
| 10:26.39 | ruskie | basicaly I can only get pre-pacakaged programs and follow those |
| 10:26.49 | ruskie | and none o the available ones really fits my needs |
| 10:27.05 | jude- | it's not too different here... |
| 10:27.16 | jude- | students must take a core set of classes |
| 10:27.20 | jude- | plus a few of their own choosing |
| 10:27.26 | jude- | but that only occurs in the last years |
| 10:27.52 | jude- | here's where I go: http://www.cs.arizona.edu |
| 10:28.17 | ruskie | I wouldn't mind a core set of clases and a few of my own choosing |
| 10:29.48 | ruskie | basicaly I only have 3 choices a) coding b) hardware c) informatics(databases, CASE, UML and similar) |
| 10:30.05 | ruskie | and since I don't really care that much for coding or hardware I'm going with informatics |
| 10:30.34 | jude- | "informatics" |
| 10:30.37 | jude- | that's a cool word :) |
| 10:30.39 | ruskie | :) |
| 10:31.00 | jude- | so, does the uni offer you any flexibility? |
| 10:31.14 | ruskie | lemme see... |
| 10:31.33 | ruskie | they have quite a lot of optionals for coding and hardware |
| 10:31.40 | ruskie | but I think you only get to pick 2 |
| 10:32.11 | jude- | out of the four-year program? |
| 10:32.55 | ruskie | lemme check |
| 10:33.26 | ruskie | been a while since I looked at it |
| 10:34.07 | ruskie | with informatics I'll also get knowledge like project managment, economics and accounting |
| 10:34.17 | ruskie | I'm in the 3 year program |
| 10:34.23 | jude- | ahh |
| 10:34.57 | ruskie | in the fourth year I have my diploma and I have half a year of practical experience |
| 10:35.13 | jude- | do you have to write a paper your fourth year? |
| 10:35.16 | ruskie | yup |
| 10:35.19 | ruskie | diploma |
| 10:35.46 | jude- | have you considered a thesis? |
| 10:36.08 | ruskie | a few different things I keep throwing around in my head |
| 10:36.32 | ruskie | hmm acctually with my program I don't get any optional classes |
| 10:37.23 | jude- | that's too bad :( |
| 10:37.28 | ruskie | ehh |
| 10:37.30 | jude- | but, looking at the course list, at least they're interesting :) |
| 10:37.37 | ruskie | :) |
| 10:38.09 | jude- | in my CS department, economics and management fall under a separate school |
| 10:38.29 | ruskie | well we get guest professors here as well |
| 10:38.38 | ruskie | from faculity of economics or other's |
| 10:38.51 | jude- | but in your situation, you get a broader experience |
| 10:39.09 | ruskie | yeah that's more or less a goal in my life |
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| 10:39.16 | ruskie | not to be to specialised in a single thing |
| 10:39.35 | jude- | yup |
| 10:39.39 | jude- | that's a noble goal |
| 10:39.44 | ruskie | hard to achive |
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| 10:39.53 | jude- | but doable |
| 10:40.15 | ruskie | well sysadiminig seems to be the best path that way lately |
| 10:40.27 | ruskie | you get to work and familiarise yourselfy with a ton of different things |
| 10:40.36 | jude- | sysadmins will never be out of the job, even if there's another global economic depression |
| 10:40.57 | jude- | yup, that too :) |
| 10:41.04 | ruskie | so far I've worked at a transportation company(interesting how they do their things) |
| 10:41.14 | jude- | how'd that go? |
| 10:41.18 | ruskie | was fun |
| 10:41.31 | ruskie | I was acctually in-sourced from an out-sourcing company |
| 10:41.57 | ruskie | but it was a good experience |
| 10:42.08 | ruskie | worked in a book publishing company |
| 10:42.18 | ruskie | that was a drag more or less |
| 10:42.26 | jude- | too easy? |
| 10:42.30 | ruskie | wasn't that much involved all around at the time |
| 10:42.48 | ruskie | since I was the junior sysadmin at the time |
| 10:43.15 | ruskie | also worked at a game development company |
| 10:43.24 | ruskie | that's a PITA |
| 10:43.36 | ruskie | hard to standardise anything there |
| 10:43.54 | ruskie | each coder uses different hardware, different tools, different everything |
| 10:44.10 | ruskie | and each doing their own thing |
| 10:44.17 | ruskie | basicaly the whole thing was unmanagable |
| 10:44.26 | ruskie | so I only worked with their linux servers there |
| 10:44.44 | jude- | heh--I've heard about how chaotic game development can be :) |
| 10:44.48 | ruskie | which is near-zero work once setup |
| 10:45.20 | jude- | which game development company? |
| 10:45.24 | ruskie | zootfly |
| 10:45.49 | jude- | heh--they're hiring again :) |
| 10:46.02 | ruskie | the hardest thing was working with their boss |
| 10:46.19 | jude- | how so? |
| 10:46.24 | ruskie | he assumed he knew everything and anything to do with servers and software etc... |
| 10:46.32 | ruskie | and never listened to reason |
| 10:46.44 | jude- | I can tell: " Having a proprietary engine gives us the flexibility to explore all genres and tailor the development to the publishers' requirements. |
| 10:46.47 | jude- | " |
| 10:46.59 | ruskie | lol |
| 10:47.06 | jude- | straight from their website :) |
| 10:47.08 | ruskie | that engine is still vapour-ware |
| 10:47.21 | jude- | "never listened to reason" :) |
| 10:47.32 | ruskie | they are working on panzer general elite or some such |
| 10:47.37 | ruskie | or were a year ago |
| 10:47.41 | ruskie | I quit after 6 months |
| 10:47.47 | jude- | the ad is still playing on the site :) |
| 10:48.04 | ruskie | just around this time last year |
| 10:48.17 | jude- | it looks like they haven't had much progress |
| 10:48.25 | ruskie | I'd be suprised if they had |
| 10:48.33 | ruskie | they're a joke |
| 10:48.58 | jude- | heh |
| 10:49.05 | ruskie | when I for example look at that transportation company I worked for and them... |
| 10:49.09 | ruskie | no competition |
| 10:49.35 | ruskie | atleast the company was trying to bring their whole infrastructure inline |
| 10:49.49 | jude- | that helps |
| 10:49.56 | ruskie | all systems running same software versions using AD etc... |
| 10:50.08 | ruskie | moving most data to servers etc... |
| 10:50.48 | jude- | maybe you should write an anonymous letter to your ex-manager at zootfly to intern at the transportation company to see how its done :) |
| 10:51.00 | ruskie | lol |
| 10:51.09 | ruskie | that made my day :) |
| 10:51.30 | jude- | it just might work : |
| 10:51.31 | jude- | ) |
| 10:51.40 | ruskie | that guy was once on tv |
| 10:51.46 | ruskie | debating games and such |
| 10:52.14 | ruskie | and my mom was clipping(before I even told here what happened) through and she took one look and said... this guy seems to be annoying |
| 10:52.34 | jude- | that's not a good sign |
| 10:52.56 | ruskie | well I ussualy research any place I plan on working at... |
| 10:53.01 | ruskie | atleast a bit... |
| 10:53.10 | ruskie | I'd mostly like to work at a data center or some such... |
| 10:53.37 | ruskie | I don't really like running all over the city explaining to users that to access their mail they need to double click their mail icon |
| 10:53.50 | jude- | no one would willingly take that sort of job |
| 10:53.57 | ruskie | ehh |
| 10:54.00 | ruskie | I like to help... |
| 10:54.04 | jude- | average employment of someone in the US with that job: 3 months |
| 10:54.09 | ruskie | I do it on irc all over the place |
| 10:54.21 | jude- | I mean over the phone |
| 10:54.23 | jude- | like ISP tech support |
| 10:54.26 | ruskie | lol |
| 10:54.43 | ruskie | well out-sourced sysadmins to that as well |
| 10:55.04 | ruskie | and yeah helldesk is the one job I wouldn't be cut out for |
| 10:55.17 | jude- | trying to explain to a customer that a CD tray is NOT a coffee mug holder? |
| 10:55.19 | ruskie | even though I can stand still and yawn at the guy screaming abuse at me... |
| 10:55.20 | jude- | I couldn't do that |
| 10:55.40 | ruskie | I'm extremly patient |
| 10:56.04 | jude- | I wouldn't be able to talk to them without laughing, I mean :) |
| 10:56.07 | ruskie | lol |
| 10:56.24 | ruskie | I'm more or less expresionless when talking to other people |
| 10:56.31 | ruskie | atleast those that don't know me |
| 10:56.55 | jude- | I try to be expressionless...doesn't always work, though |
| 10:57.22 | ruskie | if that fails I either look like I'm thinking or smile politely or even smile psychopathicaly... |
| 10:57.32 | jude- | lol |
| 10:57.46 | ruskie | to bad that for that last one the nuance is more or less lost on most people |
| 10:57.59 | jude- | heh |
| 10:58.26 | ruskie | wanda, what do you do? |
| 10:58.50 | ruskie | basicaly I ethire need intellectual or physical challanges to keep me interested in something... |
| 10:58.57 | ruskie | else I get bored quickly |
| 10:59.05 | wanda | coordinating software development and releases |
| 10:59.14 | jude- | tis true for a lot of CS students |
| 10:59.20 | ruskie | that sounds fun... |
| 10:59.26 | jude- | indeed |
| 10:59.46 | ruskie | I mean I can work 8 hours/day physicaly then grab an 8 hour nap and I'll be ok |
| 10:59.53 | ruskie | but I can't do 8h/day intellectually |
| 10:59.59 | ruskie | I can't sit still for that long |
| 11:00.05 | jude- | ADHD? |
| 11:00.07 | ruskie | can do maybe 4-6 hours... |
| 11:00.14 | jude- | nm |
| 11:00.40 | ruskie | plain fact is I hate the 8h/day work schedule |
| 11:00.48 | jude- | same here--after the 6th hour I start zoning out |
| 11:00.53 | ruskie | me to :) |
| 11:01.04 | jude- | but that's what BZFlag is for :) |
| 11:01.33 | ruskie | I rather come in one hour late and leave one hour early and do my work optimaly in the 6 hours inbetween than do the full 8 hours |
| 11:01.55 | jude- | yup |
| 11:02.02 | jude- | more productivity |
| 11:02.10 | ruskie | yeah but most don't get that idea |
| 11:02.21 | jude- | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:02.32 | wanda | if u depend on the daily work of otheres, that is impossible .. think about - real world is different |
| 11:02.33 | jude- | ^-- he didn't get it either : |
| 11:02.55 | ruskie | I don't take long lunch breaks(15-30 min max), I don't do $random non work related things if there is work to be done |
| 11:03.22 | ruskie | wanda, that's the point of the coordinator... need to keep pressuring people to do things... |
| 11:03.25 | jude- | wanda: how so? |
| 11:03.44 | ruskie | a lot of FS/OSS projects suffer from bad coordination/project managment |
| 11:04.08 | wanda | pressure does not solve problems ... |
| 11:04.08 | jude- | true--only about 1 in 20 ever become self-sustaining |
| 11:04.35 | ruskie | wanda, not direct pressure... but it's good to discuss the issues with the people that need to do the work |
| 11:05.00 | ruskie | I've got a few friend coders that just call me every so often and start chatting about some code they are working on |
| 11:05.07 | ruskie | I listen and comment on it |
| 11:05.16 | ruskie | it helps them in general |
| 11:05.27 | ruskie | and sometimes I can even offer some advice on how to try doing something |
| 11:05.45 | wanda | OSS projects are completely different from SW development in industry .. you have a strict timeline and budget ... but if problems rise up, u often have to wait until this problems are solved |
| 11:05.46 | jude- | why not just agree on a common API or interface, divide the workload between coders, and have weekly meetings and schedule deadlines then? |
| 11:07.26 | wanda | jude-: in theory, u are right .. my experience is, that internal APIs change frequently without communicating them |
| 11:07.51 | ruskie | wanda, so things need to be more transparent... |
| 11:07.54 | jude- | is there a way to minimize the changes? |
| 11:08.10 | jude- | maybe agree to an open standard? |
| 11:08.47 | jude- | or maybe define the API in stages? |
| 11:08.53 | wanda | and at least, u have to deal with people, who are not enthusiastic with their job but are doing only their working hours to get their money |
| 11:09.07 | ruskie | wanda, depends... |
| 11:09.18 | ruskie | completly on the person |
| 11:09.31 | ruskie | I personaly don't want to code for a living... |
| 11:09.42 | ruskie | it's just not me... |
| 11:09.49 | ruskie | so I don't force myself to do it |
| 11:10.12 | jude- | ruskie, regrettably, that may change in your career as a student ;) |
| 11:10.19 | ruskie | nope |
| 11:10.25 | ruskie | I do some minimal coding |
| 11:10.36 | ruskie | I can do the basic tasks they assign in classes more or less |
| 11:10.38 | jude- | will you not force yourself to do it if it's required by the class? |
| 11:10.56 | ruskie | or thief them from others, change them and defend the code |
| 11:11.13 | jude- | heh |
| 11:11.15 | jude- | I can't do that |
| 11:11.18 | jude- | I'd get expelled |
| 11:11.18 | ruskie | thief here used methaphoricaly as they offer them... |
| 11:11.32 | ruskie | as long as you can defend the code it's valid |
| 11:11.41 | ruskie | worst that can happen is you get lower grade |
| 11:12.17 | ruskie | and more or less I can understand the code just fine... |
| 11:12.49 | ruskie | and I stick to Free software stuff |
| 11:12.56 | jude- | well, that's 80% of the battle: reading and understanding the code :) |
| 11:13.03 | ruskie | yeah |
| 11:13.09 | ruskie | that's more or less not an issue for me |
| 11:13.13 | ruskie | it's writting it that is |
| 11:13.27 | ruskie | simply because my logic goes completly the oposite way in most cases |
| 11:14.00 | jude- | that's a skill you may want to hone--being able to quickly understand how foreign code works could get you a job as a consultant |
| 11:14.18 | ruskie | I do hone it |
| 11:14.30 | jude- | good :) |
| 11:14.53 | ruskie | and I often look at problems from a completly opposite angle |
| 11:15.22 | jude- | that helps :) |
| 11:15.51 | jude- | anyway, it's been nice chatting, but I'm afraid I can't stay awake any longer... |
| 11:15.55 | ruskie | nyx |
| 11:16.01 | ruskie | I need a shower and get dressed... |
| 11:45.32 | KTL | good night ... |
| 11:45.46 | KTL | where is jude from? |
| 11:45.51 | KTL | i thought europe |
| 11:46.06 | KTL | me too ... so strange living during daylight ... |
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| 12:31.07 | ruskie | us arizona :) |
| 12:31.10 | ruskie | he did say so :) |
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| 13:52.41 | PacXcon | hi |
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| 13:58.42 | Billy | hi |
| 13:59.04 | Billy | i have a question about one of the servers |
| 13:59.48 | scott | the answer is 42 |
| 14:00.33 | Billy | in pythonian.com:5156 they block out the word BOT why is that? |
| 14:01.07 | Tedius | 42 |
| 14:01.24 | Billy | no really why is that? |
| 14:01.52 | scott | the owner was sexually abused by a BOT during his childhood |
| 14:02.09 | Billy | :) shut up |
| 14:02.33 | scott | why not ask one of the ops? |
| 14:02.33 | Tedius | maybe it is vulgar in other languages, who knows |
| 14:03.06 | Billy | oh |
| 14:03.23 | Billy | k |
| 14:03.28 | Billy | thanks |
| 14:03.28 | Billy | bye |
| 14:03.36 | scott | anytime Billy |
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| 14:37.50 | SportChick | brad: Irssi: Error loading module config/core: Cannot open "/usr/local/lib/irssi/modules/libconfig_core.so" |
| 14:37.56 | SportChick | errr brlcad ^ |
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| 15:29.30 | Macint | what do u have to type to make a a file executable? chmod <something> script.sh |
| 15:29.45 | Pumpernickel | +x |
| 15:29.54 | Macint | ahh yes thx! |
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| 16:45.45 | SpazzyMcGee | Can I reload my local settings without quitting? |
| 16:46.09 | blast007 | (client settings) |
| 16:46.52 | SpazzyMcGee | yeah |
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| 16:59.03 | Polecat | Hello |
| 16:59.50 | JeffM | hello |
| 17:01.21 | Polecat | Any admins on to ask whether I could add a feature? |
| 17:01.33 | tannerld | Patches welcome. |
| 17:01.49 | Polecat | What's the best way to go about? Forum on Sourceforge seemed dead. |
| 17:02.20 | tannerld | About adding a patch? Here I guess |
| 17:02.57 | JeffM | in general if you want a feature ether you code it yourself, or con somone into doing it |
| 17:02.57 | JeffM | what feature did you want? |
| 17:02.58 | Polecat | I will code it myself, I'm just wondering best way to submit it. |
| 17:03.03 | JeffM | SF patches |
| 17:03.08 | JeffM | what is the feature? |
| 17:03.16 | Polecat | Feature: teamkills only subtract from killer's score, not killee's. |
| 17:03.31 | JeffM | makes sense |
| 17:03.38 | Polecat | Been bugging me for a long time. :) |
| 17:03.47 | JeffM | by default or as an option? |
| 17:04.08 | Polecat | By default. I can see no reason whatsoever to have a person's score be lowered for being team killed. |
| 17:04.24 | Polecat | Agree? Disagree? |
| 17:04.26 | JeffM | make sure you do it in the main branch |
| 17:04.29 | JeffM | labled 2.1 |
| 17:04.30 | TheRedBaron | punished for being in the way? ;) |
| 17:04.35 | Polecat | :) |
| 17:04.36 | JeffM | it can't be done in 2.0.x |
| 17:04.45 | JeffM | tho should be a one line change for 2.1 |
| 17:04.47 | Polecat | Alright, main branch, 2.1. Submit patch on SF.org. |
| 17:04.48 | Chestal | Polecat: eh, I disagree (if I understand you correctly) |
| 17:04.50 | blast007 | 'trunk' in SVN |
| 17:04.55 | Polecat | Explain, Chestal. |
| 17:05.25 | Chestal | let's say I start laying, I run int a shot of my teammate, I then have 0 kills,1 death, score -1 |
| 17:05.25 | TheRedBaron | chestal: if I was to Tk you. I would be punished with a point loss. You wouldn't |
| 17:05.29 | JeffM | some feel avoiding TK is a big part of the game |
| 17:05.37 | Chestal | that's seems correct to me |
| 17:05.38 | JeffM | like that |
| 17:05.55 | Chestal | I dont get a punishment, just the normal death |
| 17:06.13 | Polecat | You do get a punishment of having a score of -1 instead of 0, through no fault of your own. |
| 17:06.24 | JeffM | well it could be your fault |
| 17:06.25 | Chestal | Polecat: not every teamkill is the fault of the shooter |
| 17:06.29 | Polecat | That is true. |
| 17:06.32 | JeffM | you could have driven into the shot is what he's saying |
| 17:06.53 | Polecat | That is true. But that's probably the exception. Any statistical studies done? :) |
| 17:07.04 | JeffM | pfffft.. statistics... studies... |
| 17:07.09 | TheRedBaron | I'm assuming you get the annoyance of being dead, and having to respawn, but not the point loss |
| 17:07.09 | Polecat | :D |
| 17:07.14 | blast007 | wasn't there already something added to ignore teamkills? or is my brain fried? |
| 17:07.15 | Polecat | And losing your flag. |
| 17:07.16 | JeffM | you may have the wrong idea about the project management |
| 17:07.23 | JeffM | blast007, you can turn off TK in 2.1 |
| 17:07.24 | TheRedBaron | with polecat's patch |
| 17:07.36 | Chestal | most tks I do on borrego are not my fault, but the fault of the tank I hit |
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| 17:08.05 | scott | borrego can get busy |
| 17:08.24 | Polecat | Aw, I never liked those "spray and pray" servers anyway. ;) |
| 17:08.25 | Chestal | wrong driving is the bigger problem than wrong shooting there |
| 17:08.33 | scott | for sure |
| 17:08.46 | JeffM | Polecat, hence why it may be good to make it an option |
| 17:08.49 | Polecat | Alright, alright, I can make it an option. ;) |
| 17:09.13 | Polecat | Little bit harder though, I'd have to figure out how to make it an option. More complicated than adding a line of code. |
| 17:09.13 | TheRedBaron | The great compromise of bz ;) |
| 17:09.20 | JeffM | they are simple |
| 17:09.27 | JeffM | just find another option and track where it's set |
| 17:09.40 | JeffM | there should be an option now to just flat TURN OFF team kill shots, so you can follow that |
| 17:09.51 | JeffM | your change only needs to be done on the server so it's easy |
| 17:09.52 | Chestal | teamkills should not be counted for the shot statistics, though |
| 17:09.52 | Polecat | Good idea. |
| 17:10.03 | Chestal | neihter should suicides |
| 17:10.56 | Polecat | Alright, off to get a marriage license. (Yes, I'm a geek.) Thanks all...I'll have to hang out here more often. :) |
| 17:11.19 | Polecat | Look for my patch on SF... |
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| 17:13.20 | Chestal | off-topic: someone here with a gnu tar, maybe even version 1.16? I get bizarre resuls with --exclude |
| 17:13.53 | ndim | 99char? |
| 17:14.01 | ndim | 1.15.1 |
| 17:15.15 | Chestal | just a moment |
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| 17:17.59 | Chestal | hmm, strangely the problem disappeared. With the exact same syntax. Maybe some lib changed during the recent update, tar itself hasn't |
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| 17:19.02 | Chestal | yesterday, it would exclude the specified directory, but put a strange file --exclude=pattern into the archive which would expand to a 10k file of all 0s when extracted |
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| 18:48.37 | *** part/#bzflag utbz (n=utbz@hilda.psy.utexas.edu) |
| 18:50.23 | eTangenT | OW JEEBUS |
| 18:50.28 | eTangenT | I just cut the crap out of my toe |
| 18:50.34 | a_meteorite | ow |
| 18:50.40 | eTangenT | like |
| 18:50.44 | eTangenT | cut all along the top of it |
| 18:50.46 | eTangenT | from nail to foot |
| 18:50.54 | eTangenT | this was just now getting the paper, too |
| 18:51.10 | eTangenT | apparently there are thin metal hooks in my yard :-\ |
| 18:51.51 | a_meteorite | bad enough for stitches? |
| 18:52.24 | eTangenT | nah |
| 18:52.28 | eTangenT | but still stings bad |
| 18:53.33 | eTangenT | man |
| 18:53.38 | eTangenT | there's weird stuff that ends up in my yard |
| 18:53.46 | eTangenT | one time, someone stuck a bunch of clear plastic forks all over it |
| 18:54.27 | a_meteorite | ... |
| 18:55.07 | CBG | nice |
| 18:55.20 | eTangenT | yeah |
| 18:55.24 | eTangenT | dunno who did it |
| 18:55.28 | eTangenT | it was kinda funny though |
| 18:55.31 | awilcox | eTangenT: Aw. |
| 18:56.25 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (n=zongo@int-34-116.mobile.unibas.ch) |
| 18:57.56 | eTangenT | :o |
| 18:58.01 | eTangenT | you sly devil |
| 18:58.14 | awilcox | What? |
| 18:58.18 | eTangenT | dunno |
| 18:58.23 | awilcox | I was only trying to make you feel better. |
| 18:58.23 | eTangenT | back to my comics from Sunday |
| 18:58.28 | eTangenT | :P |
| 18:58.31 | awilcox | :) |
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| 19:00.41 | awilcox | Hi Winny. |
| 19:01.09 | Winny | hi awilcox, |
| 19:05.36 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa|Away (i=Deepy@korvboll.armchairs.be) |
| 19:07.31 | TheRedBaron | eTangenT: thats called "forking a lawn" |
| 19:07.44 | TheRedBaron | its fun, and not half the mess of toilet paper |
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| 20:40.09 | Polecat | What is the latest bzfs source? |
| 20:40.18 | Polecat | ...Version number |
| 20:40.19 | Winny | ...the one in SVN? |
| 20:40.21 | JeffM | 2.1.something |
| 20:40.25 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa (n=deepa@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 20:40.28 | JeffM | probalby .11 or 12 |
| 20:40.38 | JeffM | we only bump the minor when we change protocoll during dev |
| 20:40.43 | Winny | JeffM, that dev build you posted was .13? |
| 20:40.50 | JeffM | ok then .13 :) |
| 20:40.53 | JeffM | I was close |
| 20:40.58 | awilcox | Hehe. |
| 20:41.06 | awilcox | JeffM: Wait. you posted a dev build? |
| 20:41.08 | Polecat | Alright. What's the quickest way to download 2.1? Just check it all out of SVN? No package alreayd made? |
| 20:41.16 | JeffM | yeah svn |
| 20:41.18 | awilcox | Polecat: svn co |
| 20:41.19 | JeffM | we don't do dev packages |
| 20:41.24 | JeffM | awilcox, I've done many |
| 20:41.24 | Polecat | k |
| 20:43.00 | awilcox | JeffM: I thought you didn't do that anymore? |
| 20:43.10 | JeffM | I did it a while ago |
| 20:43.18 | JeffM | noone ever said 13 was recent :) |
| 20:43.41 | awilcox | Hehe. Okay. |
| 20:43.54 | awilcox | <3 svn |
| 20:44.16 | awilcox | So bleeding-edge. So developer-oriented. So many bugs to report. So what are you waiting for? :D |
| 20:44.50 | JeffM | huh? |
| 20:46.06 | awilcox | JeffM: I was just describing the way a trunk build feels. |
| 20:46.18 | JeffM | how is it "developer oriented"? |
| 20:46.20 | brlcad | awilcox: so don't work off the trunk ;) |
| 20:46.30 | brlcad | if that's uncomfortable for ya |
| 20:46.31 | JeffM | we don't "clean it up" before we release it |
| 20:46.43 | awilcox | brlcad: Heh. I love it. |
| 20:46.55 | awilcox | JeffM: Because devs can just fix the bugs if they want to. |
| 20:47.11 | JeffM | that's the same as any of the source branches |
| 20:47.33 | Polecat | Jeff, do you have a bzflag callsign? Awilcox, I seem to remember seeing your name...or am I imagining things? |
| 20:47.39 | Polecat | Brlcad? |
| 20:47.48 | JeffM | Polecat, if I played it'd be under this name |
| 20:47.50 | awilcox | Polecat: Jeff's callsign is JeffM. |
| 20:48.06 | Polecat | Alright. Guess we must play different maps. :) |
| 20:48.07 | awilcox | Polecat: I'm not a dev as of yet, I play under the callsign AWOS |
| 20:48.19 | JeffM | no, I just don't play |
| 20:48.20 | Polecat | k |
| 20:48.22 | Polecat | I see. |
| 20:48.35 | Polecat | You work on Bzflag, but don't play? :) |
| 20:48.39 | awilcox | Polecat: I play on bzf.bzflag.org and Hepcat mainly, sometimes on bzgals |
| 20:48.47 | awilcox | Polecat: Nah, the most I've done is beta test. |
| 20:48.48 | JeffM | I have my resaons for doing what I do and did |
| 20:48.56 | JeffM | more did then do |
| 20:49.28 | Polecat | Are you secretly a millionaire who left a life of luxurious decadence to come work on Bzflag? ;) |
| 20:49.38 | JeffM | no |
| 20:49.49 | JeffM | I'm at work right now |
| 20:49.51 | awilcox | Polecat: Hahahaha. |
| 20:50.02 | awilcox | Polecat: I have no clue who you might be talking to, but it ain't me |
| 20:50.17 | awilcox | I play on a Celeron 1600 with a RADEON 7000, does it sound like I'm a millionaire? |
| 20:50.24 | Polecat | :D |
| 20:50.27 | awilcox | :) |
| 20:50.52 | Polecat | Curses. Must install cURL now. Seem to recall it being a pain last time I worked on the source. |
| 20:51.07 | JeffM | what OS are you on? |
| 20:51.09 | awilcox | Polecat: you can't just yum or apt it? |
| 20:51.30 | awilcox | Oh, right. Forgot. Not everyone uses Linux. |
| 20:52.12 | tannerld | awilcox: lol |
| 20:52.20 | Polecat | Yeah, not here in my research lab on campus. Unfortunately. |
| 20:52.31 | Polecat | XP. |
| 20:52.35 | JeffM | what compiler? |
| 20:52.46 | Polecat | Visual Studio. |
| 20:52.52 | JeffM | 8? |
| 20:52.58 | Polecat | 7.1 |
| 20:53.01 | awilcox | 2003. |
| 20:53.12 | Polecat | Yeah. |
| 20:53.12 | JeffM | there are premade libs headers and DLLs |
| 20:53.40 | JeffM | there is no real "install" |
| 20:54.02 | JeffM | http://curl.haxx.se/download/libcurl-7.15.5-win32-msvc.zip |
| 20:54.12 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@192.42.249.98) |
| 20:54.13 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 20:54.17 | Polecat | Well, yeah, I think it was VS fault, or mine for not knowing the right setting to tweak for the compiler to find it. |
| 20:54.46 | JeffM | you can do it 1 of 2 ways |
| 20:54.54 | JeffM | 1) throw the lib in the lib dir for VC |
| 20:54.59 | JeffM | and the same for the headers |
| 20:55.08 | JeffM | or 2) add the paths to the compiler |
| 20:55.19 | awilcox | X:\PF\Microsoft Visual Studio .NET\VC\Lib, iirc. |
| 20:55.32 | JeffM | in tools->options->projects->vc++ Directories |
| 20:55.36 | JeffM | I'd recomend #2 |
| 20:55.53 | JeffM | you add a dir for the headers under includes |
| 20:56.04 | JeffM | and one for the .lib for the library files |
| 20:56.33 | JeffM | I have a dir for the include as "I:\3rdpartlibs\libcurl-7.15.0\include" |
| 20:56.43 | Polecat | k, let me try. |
| 20:56.44 | JeffM | and "I:\3rdpartlibs\libcurl-7.15.0\lib" for the lib |
| 20:56.49 | JeffM | that way my VC stays clean |
| 20:57.13 | JeffM | tho lately I've been using a lot of environ variables |
| 20:57.18 | JeffM | they make it even cleaner :) |
| 20:57.40 | JeffM | probably should have done curl as a var for BZ |
| 20:59.16 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpernickle (n=pumperni@CPE0016b6c9fba4-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:59.54 | awilcox | JeffM: Hmm. I is my .zip drive, E is my dev drive of choice. |
| 21:00.15 | JeffM | awilcox, umm whatever, drive letter maters not |
| 21:01.02 | awilcox | partition layout: C:\ boot files, D:\ system restore, E:\ dev, F:\ learning utilities (like MCSE test apps), G:\ Misc, H:\ Windows, I:\ backup, J:\ Misc, K:\ Office, L:\ Web sites, M:\ Unknown 7MB partition that I didn't create. |
| 21:01.11 | blast007 | that's nice |
| 21:01.21 | JeffM | umm yeah thanks for sharing that for no reason what so ever |
| 21:01.33 | awilcox | JeffM: yeah I think that is the wrong channel. |
| 21:01.39 | JeffM | dude you realy need a blog |
| 21:01.49 | blast007 | yeah, the right channel is #wedontcare |
| 21:01.51 | awilcox | JeffM: Bah, I know. |
| 21:01.57 | awilcox | blast007: no the right channel is ##intercomputer |
| 21:02.01 | JeffM | yeah even in that other channel, whopty freaking do |
| 21:02.02 | Polecat | Sweet, cURL is great. Thanks Jeff. Now on to GL. |
| 21:02.05 | Winny | noone there, blast007 :( |
| 21:02.08 | Winny | :p |
| 21:02.12 | blast007 | Winny: nobody cares |
| 21:02.13 | awilcox | that's my "stuff that needs to be logged" |
| 21:02.13 | JeffM | Polecat, VC came with GL |
| 21:02.18 | JeffM | there is no install for that |
| 21:02.39 | awilcox | Polecat: normally gl.h/glu.h is installed with VC++ |
| 21:02.47 | JeffM | it better be |
| 21:02.50 | Polecat | How about glew.h? |
| 21:02.55 | brlcad | how goes it JeffM |
| 21:02.57 | JeffM | glew is not |
| 21:03.05 | Polecat | That's what the current source wants. |
| 21:03.05 | JeffM | brlcad, it goes |
| 21:03.10 | awilcox | ew? |
| 21:03.11 | JeffM | yeah glew is simple |
| 21:03.11 | brlcad | that good, eh? |
| 21:03.14 | Polecat | Yes. Weird. |
| 21:03.16 | blast007 | Polecat: go get glew then ;) |
| 21:03.24 | JeffM | brlcad, and tha'ts the best it's been in days :/ |
| 21:03.34 | brlcad | ouch |
| 21:03.36 | JeffM | you'll need curses too |
| 21:03.40 | JeffM | brlcad, indeed |
| 21:03.51 | brlcad | mm.. soon even |
| 21:03.51 | JeffM | I've mooved up to cape cods |
| 21:04.04 | brlcad | what was the name of that wierd one |
| 21:04.07 | brlcad | a scooby snak? :) |
| 21:04.14 | JeffM | those are nasty |
| 21:04.15 | brlcad | somethting |
| 21:04.22 | JeffM | cape cod is vodka and cran |
| 21:04.26 | brlcad | 6 weeks and counting |
| 21:05.09 | brlcad | mm.. vodka and cran |
| 21:06.29 | awilcox | brlcad: Heh. |
| 21:06.48 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 21:06.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:07.10 | Polecat | Sweet, up and running. Thanks for the help, Jeff. |
| 21:07.19 | JeffM | no prob |
| 21:08.10 | TheRedBaron | beer? |
| 21:08.32 | awilcox | Welp, ya got TheRedBaron to poke his head out. |
| 21:08.38 | TheRedBaron | thin plastic ones |
| 21:08.45 | TheRedBaron | very thin |
| 21:08.53 | JeffM | that's easy |
| 21:08.59 | JeffM | just mention the removal or radar |
| 21:09.04 | JeffM | and he'll come forth |
| 21:09.11 | awilcox | "the removal" |
| 21:09.11 | awilcox | ? |
| 21:09.41 | JeffM | your safe from on that one |
| 21:09.48 | Polecat | Yeah, I've been considering removing radar. |
| 21:09.51 | Polecat | ;) |
| 21:10.10 | JeffM | you can do it on a per server basis |
| 21:10.36 | Winny | radar is god. |
| 21:10.43 | JeffM | there is no god |
| 21:10.43 | TheRedBaron | which is only mildly tolerable |
| 21:10.49 | TheRedBaron | servers can be avoided |
| 21:10.56 | Winny | but if there was one, it would be radar |
| 21:11.00 | awilcox | Why remove radar? I don't get it? |
| 21:11.03 | awilcox | Radar pwns. |
| 21:11.13 | awilcox | I'd suck 10x worse without radar. |
| 21:11.28 | Winny | same here... I'd play like you ;) |
| 21:11.30 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: looks like i've raised disciples ;) |
| 21:11.41 | awilcox | Winny: Lol. |
| 21:12.41 | JeffM | actualy I never wanted to remove it |
| 21:12.44 | JeffM | I wanted to change it |
| 21:12.47 | JeffM | make it real radar |
| 21:12.54 | JeffM | and make the game be 3d, not 2d |
| 21:13.07 | Winny | ...the game is 3d? |
| 21:13.11 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: propaganda, brainwashing |
| 21:13.12 | JeffM | no the view is |
| 21:13.17 | TheRedBaron | You wanted to remove it ;) |
| 21:13.20 | JeffM | nope |
| 21:13.28 | TheRedBaron | at least remove the radar as we knew it :) |
| 21:13.35 | JeffM | jumping only changes the 2d plane you play in |
| 21:13.36 | Winny | at least leave this radar as an opition... :p |
| 21:13.46 | JeffM | as i said, I'm not chaning anything |
| 21:13.55 | JeffM | just was stating what I WANTED to do |
| 21:14.04 | JeffM | that is moot now |
| 21:14.06 | brlcad | at least until he finds his pants |
| 21:14.34 | Winny | they just got up and walked away? |
| 21:14.34 | JeffM | I know where my pants are, and some other things, I just don't know if I want to go back and get them. |
| 21:14.48 | awilcox | Lol. |
| 21:15.00 | TheRedBaron | pants are over-rated anyway |
| 21:15.04 | JeffM | it's not where they are it's who they are with |
| 21:15.18 | awilcox | Lol. |
| 21:15.22 | *** join/#bzflag retro (n=ksumrall@wall.danger.com) |
| 21:15.29 | awilcox | Um, does that make me like pant king or something? |
| 21:15.30 | Polecat | Alright. TK's no longer decrement your (killee) score. Now to make it an option... |
| 21:15.40 | Winny | yes, we should all wear skirts |
| 21:15.42 | awilcox | Polecat: :O |
| 21:15.43 | TheRedBaron | working in one's pjs and undies rules |
| 21:15.50 | awilcox | TheRedBaron: \o/ |
| 21:15.53 | awilcox | FOSS projects ftw! |
| 21:15.57 | JeffM | Polecat, there is a command line options stuct you can add the item to, default and then add a switch too |
| 21:15.59 | TheRedBaron | Winny: only if you're scottish |
| 21:16.01 | JeffM | there are many cases where it's used |
| 21:16.06 | Polecat | What file? |
| 21:16.12 | JeffM | I don't remember |
| 21:16.13 | Polecat | k |
| 21:16.16 | Winny | Kilts* |
| 21:16.27 | JeffM | search for one of the other server side switches and you can see how it's used |
| 21:16.28 | Polecat | CmdLineOptions.cxx? :) |
| 21:16.35 | JeffM | possibly |
| 21:16.44 | JeffM | client and server have one, and I forget what is what |
| 21:16.56 | Polecat | Well, .h I mean. Yes. |
| 21:17.02 | awilcox | cxx? |
| 21:17.04 | awilcox | wait |
| 21:17.06 | awilcox | this is C++?! |
| 21:17.33 | awilcox | with classes and objects and "this"?! |
| 21:17.57 | *** part/#bzflag awilcox (n=awilcox@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 21:17.58 | JeffM | awilcox, you knew it was C++ |
| 21:18.00 | *** join/#bzflag awilcox (n=awilcox@unaffiliated/awosdev) |
| 21:18.03 | JeffM | awilcox, you knew it was C++ |
| 21:18.08 | awilcox | JeffM: Not especially. |
| 21:18.10 | brlcad | damn them for smelling so good |
| 21:18.11 | Polecat | Yeah, I would have used Scheme also, but what can you do? |
| 21:18.17 | Polecat | ;) |
| 21:18.26 | awilcox | Polecat: Lol. |
| 21:18.57 | Polecat | gsoc? |
| 21:18.58 | awilcox | KTL: No. |
| 21:19.04 | awilcox | PoleCat: Google Summer of Code. |
| 21:19.06 | awilcox | GSoC. |
| 21:19.44 | Winny | GeeSock |
| 21:19.50 | Polecat | Ah. See, I understand with the capitalization. :) |
| 21:20.00 | awilcox | Polecat: I figured. :) |
| 21:20.04 | awilcox | Winny: Haha. |
| 21:20.05 | JeffM | awilcox, what did you think it was done in? assembly? |
| 21:20.14 | Polecat | Oooh, good idea. Fast! |
| 21:20.16 | awilcox | JeffM: nice raw C |
| 21:20.20 | JeffM | eww |
| 21:20.28 | awilcox | though I could prolly write it in assembly with raw C code |
| 21:20.37 | JeffM | have fun, tell us when you are done |
| 21:20.42 | awilcox | JeffM: :D |
| 21:20.46 | JeffM | brlcad, indeed |
| 21:20.50 | awilcox | wait, this doesn't use DirectX does it? |
| 21:21.06 | JeffM | one of the windows build targets does |
| 21:21.09 | tannerld | you mean its not coded in Malbolge? |
| 21:21.11 | JeffM | the default one |
| 21:21.12 | tannerld | :P |
| 21:21.12 | awilcox | noooooooooo |
| 21:21.19 | JeffM | it does not use direct3d |
| 21:21.24 | JeffM | but it does use directX |
| 21:21.34 | JeffM | for sound, input, and screen resize |
| 21:21.49 | JeffM | actualy all the windows builds use direct X at some point |
| 21:21.54 | JeffM | since SDL just calls directX |
| 21:25.48 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-085-016-016-085.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:26.05 | Polecat | What's a good cmdline flag to indicate that TKing will/won't decrement the victim's score? "tkdec"? |
| 21:26.25 | ndim | tkign |
| 21:26.52 | JeffM | -safeTK |
| 21:27.07 | Polecat | The latter seems more intuitive. Will do. |
| 21:32.05 | brlcad | er, trick^Wconvince^Wbeg |
| 21:32.20 | Erroneous | but I could probably take a look at it sometime |
| 21:33.16 | brlcad | pretty sure it's just some state assumption, or some state not getting fully reset -- and OpenGLGState has .. crap .. of it's own |
| 21:33.34 | brlcad | states that are only init'd properly if you were already in a particular state |
| 21:34.07 | brlcad | i'm frankly amazed it works at all after pooring over openglgstate for a few days |
| 21:34.38 | JeffM | why don't you use my new font manager :) |
| 21:34.42 | JeffM | uses TTFs ;) |
| 21:34.45 | brlcad | ooh |
| 21:34.51 | brlcad | gimmie gimmie |
| 21:34.57 | JeffM | it's in open combat |
| 21:34.59 | JeffM | GPx01 |
| 21:35.02 | brlcad | cool |
| 21:35.09 | JeffM | API should be very similar to the one you have |
| 21:35.13 | brlcad | i'll give that a peek then |
| 21:35.15 | JeffM | needs FTGL and FT2 |
| 21:35.32 | JeffM | but it reads right from TTFs |
| 21:35.32 | brlcad | k |
| 21:35.37 | JeffM | and chaches them out to textures, etc.. |
| 21:35.55 | JeffM | as far as I can see, othe then a slightly slower startup, it's just as fast as the current texture one |
| 21:36.06 | JeffM | AND, supports extended characters. |
| 21:36.06 | brlcad | sans dependencies woulda been sweet, but then that's why it reads straight from ttfs' ) |
| 21:36.20 | Polecat | Cool, fix complete. Now we have a command line option -safeTK, which controls whether a TK decrements a victim's score. |
| 21:37.16 | JeffM | you'll have to add the color stuff in, GPX dosn't do any of that |
| 21:37.48 | brlcad | i just need to render simple text, nothing fancy |
| 21:37.59 | JeffM | that's what it does |
| 21:38.02 | Polecat | What's the best way to upload patch? Zip file with just pertinant files? |
| 21:38.14 | brlcad | Polecat: unified diff |
| 21:38.15 | blast007 | how big is the patch? |
| 21:38.17 | JeffM | Polecat, it's more then a dif? |
| 21:38.25 | brlcad | tarball/zip any new files |
| 21:38.27 | JeffM | yours should be fine for a unified dif |
| 21:38.33 | JeffM | as you added no new files |
| 21:39.01 | Polecat | The patch is one line of code in bzfs, and a couple lines in cmdlineoptions.cxx/.h |
| 21:39.54 | Polecat | You're going to make me find a windows diff client? :) |
| 21:40.06 | JeffM | Polecat, what did you use for svn access? |
| 21:40.20 | JeffM | command line? or tourtuse(sp) |
| 21:40.24 | Polecat | Tortise. |
| 21:40.30 | JeffM | then just right click in the dir |
| 21:40.34 | JeffM | and hit "make patch" :) |
| 21:40.37 | Polecat | Ah, okay. :) |
| 21:40.38 | JeffM | on the root dir |
| 21:40.42 | JeffM | it'll bust it out for you |
| 21:40.46 | JeffM | it's rather nice |
| 21:40.51 | awilcox | :O |
| 21:40.54 | awilcox | Wow. |
| 21:41.01 | JeffM | it knows what changed |
| 21:41.37 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 21:41.55 | JeffM | yeah awilcox I know it's hard for you to belive, but sometimes, windows apps do get it right ;) |
| 21:42.15 | awilcox | JeffM: No I just never saw it in the shell menu, I *have* Tortise on my laptop |
| 21:42.24 | JeffM | tort kicks ass |
| 21:42.24 | awilcox | When I'm not in Fedora 7, that is. |
| 21:42.30 | JeffM | in many ways |
| 21:42.44 | awilcox | JeffM: Yeah. Is there a KDE port? |
| 21:42.51 | JeffM | I wish other OSs had shell extenstions like that |
| 21:42.52 | JeffM | nope |
| 21:42.59 | awilcox | JeffM: they do, dcop ftw :D |
| 21:43.01 | blast007 | OSX has something like it |
| 21:43.13 | JeffM | yeah there is an iffy svn client for the finder |
| 21:43.30 | awilcox | There is kdesvn but it's kinda slow and sucky. |
| 21:43.31 | JeffM | awilcox, there are too many window managers that handle it difrently on nix :) |
| 21:43.35 | blast007 | I haven't used it, since my SVN client is too old of a version, and I don't feel like upgrading it |
| 21:43.36 | awilcox | JeffM: Hehe. |
| 21:43.59 | JeffM | personaly I think that is one of linux's big problems, too many incompatable choices |
| 21:44.13 | JeffM | so your software ends up geting spread around |
| 21:44.27 | JeffM | and none of them have very consistent interfaces. |
| 21:45.38 | blast007 | they should merge together: XFKnomeBox |
| 21:48.31 | JeffM | or add some shell like features to the lower levels, like X |
| 21:48.48 | JeffM | then it'd just be up to the manager, to you know manage, those windows, :) |
| 21:48.57 | JeffM | I dunno how it all works tho |
| 21:49.06 | JeffM | so I'm probably talkin out my butt |
| 21:50.10 | JeffM | I just think it'd be cool where X could say " hey, here are the optional actions for this file, display them" then the manager could say "hey they want to do this one" |
| 21:50.39 | JeffM | so you could consoldate a lot of nifty hooks in a low level thing, and still have it be thrid party extendable |
| 21:50.46 | JeffM | tho I guess X isn't a file manager. |
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| 21:53.40 | JeffM | brlcad, what are you using platform and font manager for? |
| 21:56.18 | JeffM | libifying 3d or the drawing cruft? |
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| 22:20.33 | TD-Linux | I think the MIME database handles file actions/hooks/etc |
| 22:21.23 | JeffM | you'd need it be able to register a handler to be called for each path, not just a file type |
| 22:21.36 | JeffM | since it would a dir tree that is in SVN |
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| 22:22.23 | brlcad | drawing cruft |
| 22:22.35 | JeffM | fun |
| 22:23.00 | brlcad | platform gives me a window with a context, now I want to draw some text onto that context |
| 22:23.27 | JeffM | you made a non BZ app that uses the lib to test it? or some other project? |
| 22:23.29 | brlcad | trying to keep it as light as possible, know there are a ton of ways I could do this |
| 22:23.59 | brlcad | in part to test it, in part for a bz purpose -- new tool |
| 22:24.09 | JeffM | what tool? |
| 22:24.17 | brlcad | platform actually was very nice to work with |
| 22:27.37 | brlcad | nothing special as yet -- at this point still just playing around with the libs as I'd not done much with libglkit and libmediafile to date |
| 22:28.22 | brlcad | and I'm starting to see/be reminded why .. src/ogl is filled with much crappage |
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| 22:53.10 | jude- | hello all |
| 22:53.19 | JeffM | word up G |
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| 23:07.22 | jude- | ...just...four...more...objects...to...go.... |
| 23:07.40 | jude- | lol |
| 23:08.00 | jude- | texturematrix, dynamicColor, mesh, and define |
| 23:08.07 | jude- | the big ones |
| 23:08.40 | jude- | heh--in case the first one crashes? |
| 23:08.45 | tannerld | yep |
| 23:09.32 | tannerld | or you find bugs in it (ick) |
| 23:09.53 | jude- | lol |
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| 23:52.13 | jude- | find something? |
| 23:53.11 | Winny | no, but better to be prepared :p |
| 23:53.45 | jude- | lol |
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| 23:54.37 | Winny | and I like to picture cartoon versions of the people here poking the ground with a stick, looking for bugs :p |
| 23:57.00 | TD-Linux | of those four biggies, define/group will be the biggest I think :P |
| 23:58.07 | jude- | group is done |
| 23:58.15 | jude- | define can't be done until mesh is completed |
| 23:58.25 | jude- | mesh will be the most amount of work |
| 23:58.49 | Winny | are you implementing the creation of the object, or the it in the 3d view? |
| 23:59.02 | Winny | or the one* |
| 23:59.07 | Winny | woo, going insane |
| 23:59.09 | jude- | I'll probably write a makeshift 2D UI for now to test the data back-end |
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| 23:59.31 | jude- | the beauty of the data back-end is that it's currently UI-agnostic |