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| 00:14.28 | AAA_awright | I get errors from curl after I join and leave "bzfs -d" (the trunk source). Something to be worried about? |
| 00:15.05 | AAA_awright | 2 every other second, about |
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| 03:19.54 | delusional | hotta admire spoogebob's dedication, he just keeps coming back with the saame thing |
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| 04:17.40 | eTangenT | woooooooooo |
| 04:17.46 | eTangenT | got Vector installed |
| 04:17.51 | eTangenT | now I'm going to start a new ideal |
| 04:17.55 | eTangenT | NO MORE APT GET |
| 04:18.03 | eTangenT | now I'm going to be cool and compile everything |
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| 05:23.13 | Constitution | JeffMFishBone: might be about time to update the BB rules and FAQ threads. There are references to a lot of old stuff, like the chat forum and board attic, etc. |
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| 05:50.25 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14228 10/trunk/bzflag/autogen.sh: fix automake error reporting when reinvoked due to libtool as well as permissions issues during recovery. |
| 07:46.11 | Constitution | 10:00 10:00 AM |
| 07:46.17 | Constitution | oops |
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| 12:25.21 | menotume | Chestal: 5 moles, and i mmissed it ? ekkk |
| 12:35.03 | Chestal | menotume: yep :-) |
| 12:38.29 | menotume | wowie |
| 12:46.31 | Chestal | won't happen again anytime soon |
| 12:47.03 | Birdie | you capn strayer lupi + ? |
| 12:47.09 | Chestal | jolly |
| 12:47.32 | Birdie | oh cool |
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| 14:58.41 | eTangenT | what on earth... |
| 14:58.47 | eTangenT | I have never known this to happen |
| 14:59.05 | eTangenT | Vector SOHO, out of the box, has all libs and dev packages needed for bzflag |
| 14:59.22 | eTangenT | :o |
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| 15:36.02 | eTangenT | gah |
| 15:36.03 | eTangenT | problem |
| 15:36.05 | eTangenT | ERROR: Unable to initialize an OpenGL context |
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| 15:48.03 | eTangenT | yeah, if I could fix this opengl thing later... nobody in Vector's channel actually seems to know much about it |
| 15:50.59 | DTRemenak | installed the appropriate drivers for your video card? |
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| 16:03.42 | eTangenT | DTRemenak: I installed the radeon drivers. |
| 16:03.49 | eTangenT | The firegl drivers seemed to cause problems with X |
| 16:05.07 | ts | ~seen A-Delusion |
| 16:05.44 | ibot | a-delusion <n=A-Delusi@pool-71-253-15-39.pitbpa.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel ##essy, 15d 8h 7m 30s ago, saying: 'The government, they argue, is financially bankrupt, and the Uniform Commercial Code (or UCC, which in real life governs commercial transactions) is actually the supreme law of the land. Importantly, any document to which ... |
| 16:06.01 | brlcad | eTangenT: can you run glxgears? |
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| 16:06.20 | delusional | wha? |
| 16:06.23 | eTangenT | yes |
| 16:06.34 | ts | delusional: I'm looking into tristripping |
| 16:06.49 | ts | delusional: The stripe tool from http://de.pastebin.ca/raw/408552 seems to be gone |
| 16:06.57 | ts | Do you have a copy of it? |
| 16:07.19 | delusional | you don't need that |
| 16:07.37 | delusional | what are you trying to ake? |
| 16:07.46 | ts | How to automatically build tristrps then? |
| 16:07.47 | delusional | make? pyramid? box? |
| 16:08.03 | delusional | i never did, i built automaticly |
| 16:08.05 | ts | delusional: I'm trying to refactor classic HIX in tristrpis |
| 16:08.09 | delusional | err, manually |
| 16:08.10 | ts | tristrips, even |
| 16:08.35 | eTangenT | brlcad: Yeah, glxgears works. |
| 16:08.38 | eTangenT | But why doesn't BZFlag? |
| 16:08.39 | ts | and some complex meshes I use in my map |
| 16:08.41 | delusional | yout probably better off with quads, or some other option |
| 16:08.58 | ts | delusional: My meshes fit tristrips better |
| 16:09.34 | delusional | well, you'll have to build each strip by hand, or make a script to do it for you |
| 16:09.46 | ts | delusional: I need to know how to convert the models, meaning how to build the drawinfo with tristrip information as well as the lod |
| 16:09.58 | eTangenT | brb |
| 16:10.23 | delusional | I did it manually, only made a pyramid and a box |
| 16:10.27 | ts | delusional: That's what you said. I understood it the first time |
| 16:10.39 | ts | I'm asking how to convert it by hand |
| 16:11.13 | delusional | start with one face.. build the points one at a time, move to the next one |
| 16:11.36 | delusional | bzflag doesnt care what order the points come in. |
| 16:12.32 | delusional | if you want the object to interact with tanks, you also need the normal-style face data |
| 16:12.40 | ts | How would it look like for this particular example: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/495143 ? |
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| 16:13.02 | ts | and yeah, I need to interact with tanks |
| 16:13.25 | eTangenT | yeah |
| 16:13.29 | eTangenT | changing driver didn't work |
| 16:13.35 | eTangenT | I gotta go |
| 16:13.37 | delusional | that's normal, no LOD there |
| 16:14.31 | ts | LOD is about how it is displayed when being near and far away..hiding the complexity |
| 16:14.41 | delusional | if your gonna do an entire map with LOD, and building manualy,think 6 months to a year |
| 16:14.57 | ts | eek |
| 16:15.12 | brlcad | eTangenT: my guess would be compilation settings |
| 16:15.26 | delusional | If you want to do that, you need strip data for EACH lod |
| 16:15.37 | delusional | making your job twice as hard |
| 16:15.38 | ts | Ok, what would it take not to do LOD but converting boxes into quadstrips and simple meshes like the example to tristrips? |
| 16:16.03 | delusional | a stripifier program |
| 16:16.20 | delusional | or years of manual work |
| 16:16.31 | ts | Eeek |
| 16:17.30 | ts | delusional: Can the example model converted by hand? If so how exactly? |
| 16:17.30 | ts | I need a step by step guide :/ |
| 16:17.34 | delusional | sthat's a cube? |
| 16:17.52 | delusional | pyramid? |
| 16:18.06 | ts | No, a mesh looking like a half pyr |
| 16:18.20 | delusional | ok, use tristrips. |
| 16:18.35 | ts | I know I should use tristrips |
| 16:18.48 | delusional | build one face, then add one point at a time, testing each time |
| 16:18.52 | ts | The question is how would it look like. I need an example |
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| 16:19.45 | delusional | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/355763?srch=tristrip |
| 16:20.25 | ts | Aheam, I meant of the model I refered to |
| 16:20.50 | delusional | thats one example, I'll paste my last attempt... I never did get it to 100 percent on the texture. |
| 16:21.27 | delusional | just add the corner data, then lod, the strip uses the corners |
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| 16:24.27 | delusional | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/495151 |
| 16:24.52 | delusional | that's what i ended up with, it says quads, and box, but it's pyramids |
| 16:25.28 | ts | Umm, my example has 5 vertices but yours has only 4 |
| 16:26.34 | delusional | I think my corners are wrong, because wings3d doesnt export each of the vertex,normal,texcoords in the smame order |
| 16:26.58 | delusional | count again |
| 16:28.31 | ts | I added the corners and now I'm looking at a world without the mesh in bzflag |
| 16:29.37 | delusional | do you see anything? |
| 16:30.06 | ts | yes all other meshes and boxes |
| 16:31.11 | delusional | are you using nvidia ot opengl |
| 16:31.17 | delusional | or |
| 16:31.34 | ts | ATI Readeon 9600 and OpenGL |
| 16:31.50 | ts | Radeon, even |
| 16:32.18 | delusional | same here. stripifiers exist in opengl, if you really want to do this, I suggest that you figure out how to use one. |
| 16:32.55 | ts | Sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to say |
| 16:33.09 | delusional | but i believe the nvidea one might be easier, at least i found more documentation on it |
| 16:33.36 | ts | LOL, Nvidia doesn't even write drivers for my platform |
| 16:34.23 | delusional | http://developer.3dlabs.com/documents/glslmanpage_index.htm |
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| 16:34.42 | KTL | that could speed up my rendering too ... |
| 16:34.43 | delusional | that's a quick link, i'll find a b |
| 16:34.44 | delusional | etter one |
| 16:36.02 | delusional | http://www.codercorner.com/Strips.htm |
| 16:36.48 | delusional | this is directx, but it helped alot. http://www.pluralsight.com/wiki/default.aspx/Craig.DirectX/IndexBufferTutorial.html |
| 16:38.23 | ts | Umm, that look like instructions how to code striping tools |
| 16:38.36 | delusional | here's the opengl page, if you want to create a stripifier http://techpubs.sgi.com/library/tpl/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi/0640/bks/SGI_Developer/books/Perf_GetStarted/sgi_html/ch07.html |
| 16:38.54 | ts | Not like how I can convert a simple mesh to triangle strips |
| 16:39.01 | delusional | I was repeatedly told that making a stripifier is "cake" and "easy" |
| 16:39.13 | ts | delusional: The links ain't helping |
| 16:39.38 | delusional | well, making an entire map manually, is a lost cause. |
| 16:39.50 | ts | I want an example |
| 16:39.57 | ts | Not a huge book |
| 16:40.01 | delusional | don't even attempt it, you need a stripifier |
| 16:40.25 | delusional | one or two objects, maybe, but not a whole map |
| 16:40.28 | ts | That 5 vertex mesh can not be converted? |
| 16:40.43 | delusional | yes, manually |
| 16:40.49 | ts | delusional: I want an example to gain some impression how it is by hand |
| 16:41.28 | ts | delusional: I can look into building an automatic tool when I have time but right now I'm writing a compiler in my free time which makes me pretty busy |
| 16:41.47 | delusional | that's easy, make the mesh using your regular tools, then add the corner data. next add the LOD block, done |
| 16:41.49 | KTL | http://www.plunk.org/~grantham/public/meshifier/show.html looks fun |
| 16:43.23 | ts | delusional: Umm, your input doesn't help me at all. All I was looking for is how the example mesh would look like with tristrips |
| 16:44.14 | delusional | i don't know what your saying.. it would look exactly the same. in game. |
| 16:44.33 | delusional | i gav an example of tristrips |
| 16:45.27 | delusional | I spent weeks researching it, but I only had one example of a stripped map, when I finally found a simpler example, all the peices fell in place. |
| 16:45.41 | delusional | I suggest you look at the trees in louman's churchyard |
| 16:46.37 | delusional | which were supplied by trepan. |
| 16:48.25 | delusional | here's the complex example http://www.garrettsites.net/bzmaps/index.php?page=mapdetail&id=212 |
| 16:48.39 | ts | I'm still laughing about "The utility to facilitate the generation of" |
| 16:48.44 | ts | stripified LODs has not yet been released. |
| 16:49.04 | delusional | he said he had it made, but lost it. |
| 16:49.29 | ts | yeah but without it, the tristrips are basicaly useless :/ |
| 16:50.31 | delusional | indexed points MIGHT be the best way to go about it. I think they'll be more flexible, and make LOD easier |
| 16:50.51 | delusional | to make |
| 16:53.09 | delusional | like i said... I spent weeks running in circles |
| 16:53.47 | delusional | also.. the code trepan committed is incomplete... you can forget the OO flag if you use LOD |
| 16:53.52 | ts | Hrm, sounds like it'll be the hell |
| 16:54.52 | delusional | and it's really only useful in certain circumstances.... like a large mountain landscape that players will be far away from. |
| 16:55.03 | delusional | or say 1000 trees |
| 16:55.34 | delusional | if you want movement, ther'es only circular motion, not linear |
| 16:56.45 | delusional | and the face data stays in one place, while the drawn motion cannot be interacted with |
| 16:56.55 | ts | I'm not caring about movement |
| 16:57.26 | delusional | there's an invisible object that stays where it started, (the face data), while the LOD floats around |
| 16:58.47 | delusional | the LOD doesnt interact with tanks, or shots |
| 17:00.15 | delusional | the only way it might be worth the effort is if you make a stripifier |
| 17:00.43 | delusional | and hopefully, 2.2 includes lod |
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| 17:10.56 | delusional | and I'll say again, 3 different people told me that making a strippifier is "cake" |
| 17:11.16 | JeffM2501 | a simple striper isn't too hard |
| 17:11.30 | JeffM2501 | making optimised strips is harder |
| 17:11.50 | JeffM2501 | again, I think you place too much weight on strips and fans, it's the LOD that speeds you up the most |
| 17:11.52 | delusional | what if we went with indexed points? |
| 17:12.04 | JeffM2501 | that has nothing to do with strips and fans |
| 17:12.13 | JeffM2501 | LOD is going to be your bigest bang for buck |
| 17:12.18 | JeffM2501 | get that into your head |
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| 17:13.43 | JeffM2501 | oh man, I think the image submiter got busted :( |
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| 17:17.22 | JeffM2501 | I think I was out too long, and too many images got backe dup :( |
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| 19:19.21 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: uploads were busted for a while |
| 19:19.21 | Erroneous | they should not be anymore |
| 19:36.01 | JeffM2501 | wonder if that got some wacky stuff in the database |
| 19:39.15 | Erroneous | probably |
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| 22:36.31 | Linuxd00d | does anyone here run mepis? |
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| 23:02.13 | brad | patch from catay: http://catay.be/bzflag/typofix.patch |
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| 23:03.51 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 23:03.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 23:21.05 | blast007 | AAA_awright: what curl errors you getting, and are you sure you have the latest trunk? |
| 23:21.14 | AAA_awright | Yes, the latest |
| 23:21.30 | AAA_awright | 2.1 trunk |
| 23:21.50 | AAA_awright | BZFlag server 2.1.13.20070514-DEVEL-linux-gnu-SDL (protocol 0050) http://BZFlag.org/ |
| 23:21.52 | blast007 | 2.1 *is* trunk :) |
| 23:22.09 | blast007 | that's from 5/14 |
| 23:22.10 | blast007 | update and rebuild |
| 23:22.13 | AAA_awright | true, but opposed to a previous 2.1 revision |
| 23:22.32 | blast007 | there was a change put in, in the last few days |
| 23:23.00 | AAA_awright | Running compile. |
| 23:23.13 | AAA_awright | (and svn, autogen, etc..) |
| 23:24.24 | AAA_awright | Have it all packaged in a script. Also, it appears some of the API #defines were renamed, like BZ_ALL_USERS (in the docs) to BZ_ALLUSERS (in bzfsAPI.h) |
| 23:24.39 | AAA_awright | (in the API at least) |
| 23:25.17 | AAA_awright | is anyone updating the API docs? |
| 23:25.18 | blast007 | the API is very different |
| 23:25.21 | blast007 | someone will |
| 23:25.30 | blast007 | but that's not priority right now |
| 23:26.10 | AAA_awright | Not a bug, just tiny detail :) I would prefer to update them right after any permanent change. |
| 23:34.04 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:34.04 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || New WIKI! http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || Migrated from CVS to SVN: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN || GSoC 4 slots: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Program_Evaluation |
| 23:34.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 23:38.33 | AAA_awright | dang. ./configure make my plugin start segfaulting again. |
| 23:38.51 | AAA_awright | no... |
| 23:38.54 | JeffM2501 | the API docs went out of date long ago |
| 23:39.13 | JeffM2501 | newer stuff I do, I doc on the fourms/website |
| 23:39.18 | JeffM2501 | with both the 2.1 and 2.0.x versions |
| 23:39.21 | AAA_awright | bzfs is segfaulting now. With no plugin at all :S |
| 23:39.36 | JeffM2501 | good thing you have a debuger |
| 23:39.53 | AAA_awright | I do (no I don't) :S |
| 23:40.09 | JeffM2501 | you can install one quite easaly |
| 23:40.25 | AAA_awright | Correction: not one I can figure out to use in a matter of minutes |
| 23:40.30 | JeffM2501 | the KDE visal debuger I tried kciekd ass |
| 23:40.38 | JeffM2501 | it's cake |
| 23:40.47 | JeffM2501 | just build debug bz, then told it where the exe was |
| 23:40.57 | JeffM2501 | gave it the paramters and bam it was solid |
| 23:40.59 | AAA_awright | hm. |
| 23:41.13 | JeffM2501 | kdbug or something |
| 23:41.29 | JeffM2501 | I remember I searched for gdb in synaptic and it showed up |
| 23:41.48 | AAA_awright | Oh. I use gnome on gentoo. :) |
| 23:42.07 | JeffM2501 | it only needed a couple kde libs |
| 23:42.12 | JeffM2501 | but there were gtk ones as well |
| 23:42.24 | JeffM2501 | I was runing it under gnome |
| 23:43.43 | AAA_awright | Ever get any really nasty bugs that don't segfault when you are using a debugger? |
| 23:44.02 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:44.12 | JeffM2501 | usulay those are uninitalised memory |
| 23:46.48 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:46.48 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || New WIKI! http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || Migrated from CVS to SVN: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN || GSoC 4 slots: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Program_Evaluation |
| 23:46.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 23:48.23 | AAA_awright | awright@labs /var/bzflag/bin $ ./bzfs |
| 23:48.25 | AAA_awright | Segmentation fault |
| 23:48.36 | AAA_awright | hmmmm.... |
| 23:48.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah debug it or log it |
| 23:48.54 | JeffM2501 | you have to DO something to fix it, runing it over and over won't magicaly make it work |
| 23:49.15 | AAA_awright | re ./configure ing and make ing should have... in my perfect world |
| 23:49.22 | JeffM2501 | not if there is a real bug |
| 23:49.47 | JeffM2501 | you assume the issue is with the build, not the software |
| 23:49.47 | JeffM2501 | don't guess, investigate |
| 23:49.54 | JeffM2501 | run it with -d -d -d -d |
| 23:49.57 | JeffM2501 | see how far it gets |
| 23:51.10 | AAA_awright | gdb says SIGSEGV: 0x0814b68f in GroupDefinition::pack (this=0x81af120, buf=0x8213a2c) at ObstacleMgr.cxx:800 |
| 23:51.22 | JeffM2501 | wtf |
| 23:51.32 | JeffM2501 | did you build with --enable-debug ? |
| 23:51.39 | AAA_awright | no |
| 23:51.44 | JeffM2501 | do so |
| 23:52.00 | JeffM2501 | but that'd be in the world packing |
| 23:52.54 | AAA_awright | last message before segfault with debug messages enabled: Collision Octree processed in 0.003 seconds. |
| 23:53.27 | AAA_awright | building |
| 23:53.39 | Erroneous | iirc brlcad was having a crash right at startup too. works fine for me. |
| 23:55.14 | JeffM2501 | don't mean it was fixed ;) |
| 23:55.32 | AAA_awright | It must have been the May 15th commit at WorldInfo.cxx? |
| 23:55.42 | JeffM2501 | how old is your code? |
| 23:55.52 | AAA_awright | Just did svn up |
| 23:55.57 | AAA_awright | an hour ago it worked |
| 23:56.17 | JeffM2501 | it worked before the update, then didn't after? |
| 23:56.20 | AAA_awright | that was the.... May 14th version |
| 23:56.31 | JeffM2501 | then there ya go, it got busted |
| 23:56.55 | AAA_awright | I knew that. |
| 23:57.14 | AAA_awright | er... I figured it out at least |
| 23:58.25 | Erroneous | yeah, looks like it tries to allocate the database before it knows how big it is |
| 23:58.35 | JeffM2501 | stilly man |
| 23:59.26 | JeffM2501 | you wana fix it Erroneous ? |
| 23:59.42 | Erroneous | was thinking about it |
| 23:59.59 | JeffM2501 | it easy to fix? |