| 00:00.49 | argiopeweb | My favorite hack ever is changing the color of the flags... Nothing special, but I like aqua flags. It's soothing to the eyes. :) |
| 00:00.49 | argiopeweb | Any of y'all want to come play around on my server? |
| 00:00.51 | argiopeweb | Running hydro. |
| 00:01.01 | KTL | that explains the bug i saw at the normandy server: id showed all flags as pz |
| 00:01.06 | argiopeweb | Hmm. |
| 00:01.22 | *** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 00:01.50 | JeffM2501 | we still have to just remove the flag ID alltogether |
| 00:01.58 | KTL | can't find it in the list |
| 00:02.10 | argiopeweb | Refresh. |
| 00:02.23 | argiopeweb | I just brought it back up. |
| 00:02.56 | argiopeweb | Is any of the server-side bot stuff programmed yet? |
| 00:03.06 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:03.09 | KTL | (i searched for hydro and argio) |
| 00:03.15 | JeffM2501 | we don't have a full state yet |
| 00:03.37 | argiopeweb | KTL: There are only like 6 maps online for 2.1.13... |
| 00:03.52 | argiopeweb | And mine is the only one with a player. |
| 00:04.02 | KTL | ah the svn :D |
| 00:04.12 | argiopeweb | Hehe. |
| 00:04.41 | argiopeweb | I've got it on 2.0.9 too. Hydrolosis by Maxwell's Silver Hammer. Hosted in FL, USA |
| 00:05.03 | argiopeweb | If you search for "FL," in 2.0.8 you'll come up with like 12 maps, all hosted by me. |
| 00:06.58 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 00:06.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 00:07.06 | blast007 | argiopeweb: a VM isn't slow, unless your computer sucks |
| 00:12.53 | *** join/#bzflag the_j0k3r (n=pizza_ma@CPE-124-189-13-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:14.15 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 00:14.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 00:14.22 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 00:24.49 | argiopeweb | Woo. 2.1.13 is FUN. |
| 00:25.14 | argiopeweb | Now the bugs just need to be ironed out. :P |
| 00:25.37 | argiopeweb | Any plans on what you have left to do before you release 2.2 alpha? |
| 00:25.55 | argiopeweb | Or will you just sit back and add features for a bit? |
| 00:27.32 | blast007 | plans? you must be new |
| 00:27.40 | blast007 | ;) |
| 00:28.31 | argiopeweb | Yeah... I know about BZ plans. :P |
| 00:28.49 | argiopeweb | I have been playing since pre-1.10. XD |
| 00:28.57 | argiopeweb | Which isn't too long for some of y'all. :\ |
| 00:30.05 | argiopeweb | Hehe. |
| 00:30.27 | argiopeweb | I got a 1.7, but I only played it once. Then I came back briefly for 1.10. |
| 00:30.35 | argiopeweb | I didn't get hardcore till 2.0.0 |
| 00:30.59 | blast007 | I played more durin the 1.7 years |
| 00:31.09 | blast007 | during* |
| 00:32.03 | argiopeweb | How long was it around? |
| 00:34.45 | delusional_ | idunno.... I had just figurd out how to /identify when 2.0 came out |
| 00:34.51 | *** join/#bzflag l0dxc0l (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:35.01 | delusional_ | and i didnt need to /identify any more |
| 00:37.42 | argiopeweb | -* |
| 00:37.45 | argiopeweb | :P, that is. |
| 00:40.47 | Epyon | Weeee :) |
| 00:41.19 | Epyon | I've got a realy basic BZFlag 3DS MAX mesh exporter in my hands ^_^ |
| 00:41.37 | *** join/#bzflag redsoxfan90 (n=CP@c-76-19-187-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:41.40 | redsoxfan90 | ah |
| 00:41.43 | redsoxfan90 | there is a cheater going around |
| 00:41.52 | argiopeweb | Great... |
| 00:41.55 | argiopeweb | Who this time? |
| 00:42.07 | KTL | what server? |
| 00:42.08 | redsoxfan90 | his callsighn is bzflagcheat.blogspot.com |
| 00:42.13 | redsoxfan90 | it was on a hix public server |
| 00:42.15 | redsoxfan90 | i poll banned him |
| 00:42.23 | KTL | a_meteorite, cheater alert? |
| 00:42.25 | KTL | ah |
| 00:42.30 | a_meteorite | where at? |
| 00:42.35 | a_meteorite | ok |
| 00:42.47 | binaryspike | It's CRW |
| 00:42.49 | redsoxfan90 | he is probally gonna server hop |
| 00:42.53 | redsoxfan90 | CRW? |
| 00:42.56 | a_meteorite | yeah, I got it taken care of |
| 00:43.02 | a_meteorite | redsoxfan90: CRW is molez/db/both |
| 00:43.06 | binaryspike | Most of the time you just ask nicely and they go away |
| 00:43.08 | KTL | 2 HA}{0RS OF THE FLAG = 100'S F PISSED OFF PEOPLE! |
| 00:43.15 | redsoxfan90 | that's not molez. |
| 00:43.16 | redsoxfan90 | or db |
| 00:43.16 | binaryspike | ...? |
| 00:43.20 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: ahahaa! |
| 00:43.27 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: yeah right |
| 00:43.31 | redsoxfan90 | ping the ip :P |
| 00:43.35 | redsoxfan90 | if he goes on your server met,. |
| 00:43.41 | a_meteorite | redsoxfan90: it is, molez/db admitted to owning bzflagcheat.blogspot.com |
| 00:43.48 | a_meteorite | way back in the december 2005 cheating incident |
| 00:43.53 | redsoxfan90 | oh |
| 00:43.59 | a_meteorite | now there has been recent activity on that blog |
| 00:44.10 | binaryspike | Didn't you guys talk to blogspot |
| 00:44.18 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: it's free speech and not against the license |
| 00:44.22 | a_meteorite | not much they'll do |
| 00:47.08 | argiopeweb | Nah, they can't legally do anything... Licensing on BZ allows CRW to do whatever he wants to the code. And he doesn't tell you how to use it maliciously, he just tells you how to set it up. |
| 00:47.14 | argiopeweb | He even has a disclaimer. |
| 00:47.22 | argiopeweb | He went to great pains to make sure it wasn't pulled. |
| 00:47.36 | a_meteorite | even if he told you how to use it maliciously it doesn't make it illegal |
| 00:47.46 | a_meteorite | the license also disclaims liability |
| 00:48.15 | Epyon | Another BZW Question -- is there a way to include bzw files into another? |
| 00:48.16 | KTL | with the new version those simple cheats wont work anymore |
| 00:48.23 | Epyon | Like the #include C directive? |
| 00:48.26 | a_meteorite | KTL: yeah, but we're stuck with 2.0 for awhile |
| 00:48.32 | a_meteorite | Epyon: no |
| 00:48.33 | argiopeweb | a_meteorite: Yeah, that's true. |
| 00:48.57 | Epyon | No? o.O |
| 00:49.01 | a_meteorite | no.. |
| 00:49.04 | argiopeweb | Nope. |
| 00:49.07 | Epyon | That's a pain in the a**... |
| 00:49.44 | Epyon | BZW* |
| 00:50.02 | binaryspike | Are you sure? |
| 00:50.09 | binaryspike | I recall reading something about using include... |
| 00:50.12 | binaryspike | in bzw |
| 00:50.25 | a_meteorite | I'm 100% sure there isn't one |
| 00:51.09 | binaryspike | yes well I was told on the forum when I first started that horizontal teleporters were possible |
| 00:51.14 | argiopeweb | Any of y'all know how to do the --enable-shared equivalent in MSVC? |
| 00:51.17 | a_meteorite | oooh |
| 00:51.17 | binaryspike | so it could just be something like that |
| 00:51.19 | argiopeweb | Oh, nvm. |
| 00:51.21 | a_meteorite | hold on Epyon |
| 00:51.22 | argiopeweb | I don't need it. |
| 00:51.30 | a_meteorite | http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man5/bzw.5.html |
| 00:51.38 | a_meteorite | (BZWReader.cxx/BZWReader::readWorldStream) |
| 00:51.38 | a_meteorite | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:51.38 | a_meteorite | worldStream := |
| 00:51.39 | a_meteorite | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:51.47 | binaryspike | booyah |
| 00:51.48 | argiopeweb | <.< |
| 00:51.50 | binaryspike | score one for me ;) |
| 00:51.52 | a_meteorite | "include".. I don't know WHERE it goes though |
| 00:52.06 | argiopeweb | worldStream. Duh. :P |
| 00:52.14 | a_meteorite | worldStream? that's a new object for me |
| 00:52.17 | blast007 | argiopeweb: you don't have to enable anything, bzfs automatically supports plugins in MSVC |
| 00:52.27 | binaryspike | worldStream isn't an object |
| 00:52.29 | argiopeweb | Oh, really? |
| 00:52.31 | argiopeweb | Interesting. |
| 00:52.34 | binaryspike | IIRC you include it at the top of your file |
| 00:52.35 | blast007 | there is a project file for plugins too |
| 00:52.41 | blast007 | so you can build them |
| 00:52.45 | argiopeweb | Yeah, I know. |
| 00:53.02 | Epyon | Hmm |
| 00:53.10 | argiopeweb | My only problems are with the Windows specific things... Everything else I have a firm grasp of. |
| 00:53.12 | blast007 | the win32 stuff with MSVC doesn't use libtool, so it's actually better in some ways |
| 00:53.24 | Epyon | so "include monolith.bzf" should work? |
| 00:53.38 | binaryspike | sounds rightg |
| 00:53.41 | binaryspike | sounds right* |
| 00:53.43 | binaryspike | lemme test |
| 00:54.32 | *** join/#bzflag Hannibal (n=aaronsal@pool-71-113-209-249.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:54.37 | argiopeweb | Eh, libtool isn't too bad. A bit akward... |
| 00:54.50 | delusional_ | oh yeah... thumper does that on bzflag olympics, some parts are static and some dynamically ggenerated |
| 00:54.58 | argiopeweb | Damn. There went the errors. :\ |
| 00:56.23 | *** join/#bzflag technoid_ (i=technoid@blacksun.netteksolutions.com) |
| 00:56.41 | binaryspike | delusional_, Thumper uses Python IIRC to generate maps |
| 00:57.04 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: the stuff like the center is static |
| 00:57.11 | delusional_ | yeah, but it uses includes |
| 00:57.26 | delusional_ | the olymic map is 3 parts, IIRC |
| 00:58.20 | Epyon | Hah, include WORKS xD |
| 00:59.10 | binaryspike | :P |
| 00:59.51 | Epyon | And so does my 3dsMax mesh exporter ^-^ |
| 01:00.07 | binaryspike | how do I go into windowed mode on windows? |
| 01:00.41 | brlcad | press F1? |
| 01:00.47 | binaryspike | Doesn't work for me :-/ |
| 01:00.53 | binaryspike | F4 minimizes |
| 01:01.00 | blast007 | only works going window -> full |
| 01:01.01 | blast007 | not back |
| 01:01.03 | binaryspike | and sometimes the window just disappears when I minimize |
| 01:02.31 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14148 10/trunk/bzflag/m4/Makefile.am: curl.m4 was replaced by libcurl.m4 |
| 01:02.59 | brlcad | blast007: really? that's kinda annoying.. |
| 01:03.18 | brlcad | i swear i've used it to toggle on windows |
| 01:03.39 | blast007 | hmm |
| 01:05.27 | binaryspike | Tried, I even remapped the fullscreen to ] and it didn't work |
| 01:05.47 | blast007 | don't think I've ever seen it work on windows |
| 01:06.53 | *** join/#bzflag CRWheelchair (n=john@ip68-105-98-187.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 01:08.16 | delusional_ | breath of the penis |
| 01:08.22 | binaryspike | lang... |
| 01:08.40 | binaryspike | you guys are to stressed out or something |
| 01:08.45 | delusional_ | woop sorry.. thought i was in another room, sorry, my bad |
| 01:09.56 | brlcad | well sunuvagun. it is unidirectional to full-screen |
| 01:10.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*n=john@*.sd.sd.cox.net] by brlcad |
| 01:10.34 | brlcad | delusional_: language please |
| 01:10.36 | *** join/#bzflag Jefenry (n=jeffreyd@pool-162-83-123-169.norf.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:10.39 | binaryspike | mode +b?? |
| 01:10.45 | *** part/#bzflag CRWheelchair (n=john@ip68-105-98-187.sd.sd.cox.net) |
| 01:10.50 | blast007 | binaryspike: yeah, mode BOOM |
| 01:11.50 | argiopeweb | <.< |
| 01:12.19 | argiopeweb | Yeah, F1 is laggy on Windows. |
| 01:12.39 | *** part/#bzflag redsoxfan90 (n=CP@c-76-19-187-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 01:12.47 | argiopeweb | Is it just me, or does BRL do most of the deving? |
| 01:12.52 | argiopeweb | +b FTW |
| 01:12.59 | brlcad | it's just you |
| 01:13.03 | argiopeweb | Watch him hop on a proxie. :P |
| 01:13.08 | argiopeweb | Proxy* |
| 01:13.30 | blast007 | nah, he's just using the webchat now |
| 01:13.31 | KTL | what happened with biggeruniverse btw? |
| 01:13.36 | brlcad | irc is trivial to manage |
| 01:13.42 | argiopeweb | Yep. |
| 01:14.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b *!*n=john@*.sd.sd.cox.net] by brlcad |
| 01:14.07 | KTL | he came in with "hey i restructured bzfs myself" a week ago |
| 01:14.42 | brlcad | he's been around |
| 01:14.46 | blast007 | KTL: better than "I wrote bzfs in PHP" |
| 01:14.55 | a_meteorite | heh.. |
| 01:15.02 | KTL | that was not me :) |
| 01:15.03 | brlcad | he actually had sources too, wasn't just talk |
| 01:15.07 | blast007 | KTL: I know |
| 01:15.13 | KTL | is it going to be accepted?? |
| 01:15.21 | a_meteorite | the PHP server was real |
| 01:15.31 | KTL | because it sounded good work, (not the php :P ) |
| 01:15.33 | blast007 | a_meteorite: I know, I connected to it, and tried to spawn ;) |
| 01:15.36 | blast007 | and it crashed |
| 01:15.47 | brlcad | KTL: as-is, no |
| 01:15.54 | brlcad | quite impractical actually on many levels |
| 01:16.10 | brlcad | that said, hopefully the guy sticks around and helps make the same mods to the existing sources |
| 01:16.21 | brlcad | or similar ones at least |
| 01:16.34 | argiopeweb | BZFS in PHP is quite a feat... |
| 01:16.42 | argiopeweb | Even if it didn't work completely. |
| 01:17.12 | argiopeweb | That's just bug fixing. It gets easy once you have the base. :P |
| 01:17.27 | argiopeweb | Yeah, someone (tm) should fix that windows f1 toggle. |
| 01:17.39 | argiopeweb | Only way to get out of fullscreen is hit the windows key. |
| 01:17.51 | argiopeweb | Which is actually quite effective. |
| 01:18.48 | argiopeweb | Okay folks, I'm out for the evening.. Y'all have fun. |
| 01:18.49 | blast007 | argiopeweb: or just hit F4 |
| 01:18.56 | KTL | good night |
| 01:18.58 | argiopeweb | Well, yeah... |
| 01:19.07 | argiopeweb | Keep up the good work brl. :P |
| 01:20.29 | *** part/#bzflag argiopeweb (i=tIRC@user-0c6supj.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:21.49 | blast007 | window'ed mode on windows isn't so great though anyway |
| 01:21.56 | blast007 | don't think the cursor grabs |
| 01:22.37 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 01:22.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 01:24.43 | blast007 | even more so because if you click outside the window, it minimizes ;) |
| 01:25.29 | *** join/#bzflag Workaphobia (n=brandj2@vpnwl-228-88.net.rpi.edu) |
| 01:34.15 | binaryspike | anybody know of a good main menu engine? |
| 01:35.03 | binaryspike | OpenGL based main menu engine* |
| 01:35.40 | tupone | cegui? dunno if good or opengl |
| 01:35.50 | tupone | but it sounds like it is |
| 01:36.19 | binaryspike | Ah yes Crazy Eddy's GUI system, I have heard about that |
| 01:36.19 | brlcad | it is opengl-based |
| 01:36.34 | tupone | if i have understood what main menu engine is |
| 01:39.58 | binaryspike | brlcad, there is an SDL function that toggles between windowed and fullscreen... |
| 01:40.03 | binaryspike | SDL_ToggleFullscreen I think |
| 01:40.37 | brlcad | eek |
| 01:40.40 | Epyon | binaryspike, even in it's doc it states that it doesn't work on windoze ;] |
| 01:40.51 | tupone | nite |
| 01:40.58 | brlcad | night tupey |
| 01:40.59 | binaryspike | g'night |
| 01:41.11 | blast007 | binaryspike: windows doesn't use SDL |
| 01:41.21 | binaryspike | oh... I didn't know that |
| 01:41.27 | brlcad | if it did, then it might work |
| 01:42.43 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14149 10/trunk/bzflag/TODO: have F1 actually toggle fullscreen consistently on Windows like it does for other plats (or jump to sdl like mac build) |
| 01:49.14 | EbErT | but there are bonfires! |
| 01:49.24 | JeffM2501 | i wish |
| 01:49.42 | EbErT | ah, so just the dust, heat, and pollen |
| 01:49.49 | JeffM2501 | ya |
| 01:55.30 | *** part/#bzflag Workaphobia (n=brandj2@vpnwl-228-88.net.rpi.edu) |
| 02:02.23 | blast007 | weee, unresolved symbols |
| 02:03.52 | blast007 | regcomp/regfree ;) |
| 02:04.06 | blast007 | does VC have it's own regex stuff? |
| 02:04.29 | brlcad | blast007: it builds the included regex |
| 02:05.01 | brlcad | blast007: you building on windows? i updated the windows build files but it might still need some paths adjusted |
| 02:05.26 | blast007 | yeah, building in VC7.1 |
| 02:05.39 | blast007 | I downloaded zlib since that's gone now |
| 02:05.43 | brlcad | it's not gone |
| 02:05.47 | brlcad | same issue |
| 02:05.55 | brlcad | they're in src/other/ now |
| 02:05.58 | blast007 | ah |
| 02:06.04 | brlcad | regex, zlib, c-ares |
| 02:06.40 | brlcad | I probably just didn't update some mystery line in one of the VC build files |
| 02:06.44 | brlcad | maybe a search path or something |
| 02:07.08 | blast007 | I'll play with it a bit |
| 02:07.32 | brlcad | see if the regex project file builds by itself |
| 02:07.41 | brlcad | same for zlib |
| 02:08.00 | brlcad | if they do.. then it's something in the client project file |
| 02:09.06 | *** part/#bzflag EbErT (n=EbErT@adsl-19-81-54.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:09.10 | blast007 | hmm, did CIA not report the changes to the project files? swore I tried opening the source files for zlib in the MSVC project and they didn't work |
| 02:09.16 | blast007 | and now they do |
| 02:09.45 | brlcad | cia reported |
| 02:09.49 | blast007 | works |
| 02:10.00 | brlcad | erm, so what was the problem then? |
| 02:10.08 | blast007 | not sure |
| 02:10.13 | brlcad | heh |
| 02:10.16 | blast007 | it had said it could find files |
| 02:10.27 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=Tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:10.30 | blast007 | specifically the ones for zlib |
| 02:10.30 | brlcad | i mean, what'd you do that fixed it |
| 02:10.44 | blast007 | I updated and undid changes I had made to try fixing it |
| 02:10.58 | brlcad | hrmf |
| 02:11.04 | brlcad | so maybe just not svn up'd fully? |
| 02:11.22 | blast007 | maybe I didn't build clean last time |
| 02:11.43 | brlcad | ah maybe, or had the project file open when it updated |
| 02:11.53 | blast007 | nope |
| 02:12.05 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@s122-80.resnet.ucla.edu) |
| 02:12.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 02:12.10 | brlcad | so it does build now though? |
| 02:12.13 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:12.15 | blast007 | works fine :) |
| 02:12.16 | brlcad | cool |
| 02:12.31 | brlcad | now to do more build mods that affect windows *ahem* :) |
| 02:12.58 | brlcad | and where's mr.ac when I need 'em |
| 02:19.14 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14150 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/ (WinDisplay.cxx WinDisplay.h WinWindow.cxx WinWindow.h): so let it be written, so let it be done. |
| 02:19.54 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14151 10/trunk/bzflag/TODO: so let it be written, so let it be done. |
| 02:20.37 | a_meteorite | that's gotta be the fastest turn-around on a TODO |
| 02:20.40 | Epyon | lol, this is fun :P |
| 02:20.48 | Epyon | http://chaosforge.org/bzf_001.png |
| 02:21.04 | a_meteorite | Epyon: nice map |
| 02:21.20 | Epyon | Just testing the 3ds import |
| 02:21.34 | a_meteorite | is this GSoC work? |
| 02:21.43 | Epyon | I did a few throwaway textures/models for it. |
| 02:21.55 | Epyon | Pyramids are always easy ^^ |
| 02:22.00 | Epyon | a_meteorite, nope. |
| 02:22.09 | Epyon | I'm just learning the BZW format now. |
| 02:22.13 | a_meteorite | ahh |
| 02:24.23 | Epyon | But I think I might do a few "handmade" maps for starters to get hold of BZW :) |
| 02:27.02 | lodxcol | ~bzfquery lodxcol.bzflag.org:5200 |
| 02:27.10 | lodxcol | k |
| 02:30.31 | *** join/#bzflag redsoxfan90 (n=CP@c-76-19-187-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:30.35 | redsoxfan90 | quick question |
| 02:30.39 | redsoxfan90 | in the bz server config file |
| 02:30.52 | redsoxfan90 | to see if a person is using keyboard or mouse is there an option for this in the config file? |
| 02:31.19 | tannerld | no |
| 02:31.36 | redsoxfan90 | i thought it was possible? |
| 02:33.51 | JeffM2501 | that is not sent to the server |
| 02:33.55 | JeffM2501 | it would not care |
| 02:34.21 | redsoxfan90 | so its impossible to see what a person is using to controll there tank? |
| 02:34.27 | redsoxfan90 | hmm ok thxs jeff |
| 02:39.18 | Epyon | Heh, bug with mesh refine :P |
| 02:39.29 | Epyon | http://chaosforge.org/bzf_002.png <- corrected |
| 02:40.08 | *** part/#bzflag technoid_ (i=technoid@blacksun.netteksolutions.com) |
| 02:44.28 | brlcad | DTRemenak: hehe |
| 02:47.32 | JeffM2501 | fix bots |
| 02:50.00 | brlcad | i don't think dtr would do it :) |
| 02:50.40 | JeffM2501 | actualy he will |
| 02:50.46 | JeffM2501 | he'l roll it back |
| 02:50.55 | JeffM2501 | it has been discussed in our design meetings |
| 03:15.19 | *** join/#bzflag bz45 (n=410d9ff5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:26.51 | binaryspike | question, I love doing AI work. What needs to be done on the bot AI? (I programmed a couple thousand line robowar bot when I was 12...) |
| 03:29.58 | a_meteorite | lots |
| 03:30.05 | a_meteorite | :) |
| 03:30.47 | a_meteorite | auto pilot seems are WAY smarter than solo bots, maybe get them to use the same bot AI? |
| 03:31.00 | a_meteorite | that would probably be pretty good for starters, but I ain't the one accepting patches either |
| 03:31.05 | blast007 | solo bots navigate better though |
| 03:31.10 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 03:31.19 | a_meteorite | ok, so a hybrid of the two :) |
| 03:31.25 | binaryspike | yes if you could provide optional pathing data in the BZW format that would make bots much much smarter |
| 03:32.05 | *** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) |
| 03:32.07 | jude- | hello all |
| 03:32.09 | a_meteorite | pathing data? how would that work.. |
| 03:32.12 | inchworm | hey jude |
| 03:32.33 | binaryspike | Old skool FPS games use it |
| 03:32.53 | delusional_ | nah, nah, nah, na-na-na-nah |
| 03:33.07 | binaryspike | Each map has a "path" and each bot will goto the path when he's searching for an enemy, or goto a certain location |
| 03:33.14 | binaryspike | and he will "follow the path" to get there |
| 03:33.19 | brlcad | binaryspike: not a whole lot really, mostly clean up work to make bzrobots build proper |
| 03:33.31 | brlcad | then from there it's as much as you'd like to put into any particular bot |
| 03:33.37 | binaryspike | basically vectors that connect like a web around objects. |
| 03:33.46 | a_meteorite | I think solo and roger should merge, personally :) |
| 03:33.53 | brlcad | i wouldn't start with the existing autopilot or bot code, bzrobots is considerably more flexible right from the start |
| 03:33.58 | a_meteorite | get a bot that acts the same all the time |
| 03:34.11 | binaryspike | I disagree |
| 03:34.30 | binaryspike | roger shouldn't be as good as a solo bot |
| 03:34.39 | brlcad | solo and roger serve entirely separate purposes |
| 03:34.42 | a_meteorite | brlcad: bzrobots? care to explain what it is in a nutshell? |
| 03:34.53 | a_meteorite | meh, I just think they should be the same.. |
| 03:35.17 | brlcad | they're both effectively fixed FSMs, rather basic logic |
| 03:35.20 | brlcad | just different logic |
| 03:35.48 | brlcad | solo bot logic will definitely be going away, roger maybe later with a scriptable interface |
| 03:36.06 | a_meteorite | aw.. but what if we like playing with ourselves |
| 03:36.13 | binaryspike | Then use bzrobots |
| 03:36.30 | brlcad | a_meteorite: the *feature* isn't going away -- the logic would change |
| 03:36.35 | brlcad | the implementation |
| 03:36.35 | a_meteorite | will they be better than solo? |
| 03:36.36 | L4m3r | I don't see any reason to do away with Roger |
| 03:36.49 | L4m3r | autopilot is like pause on some servers :P |
| 03:36.55 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 03:37.05 | binaryspike | yes but all it does is get you killed ;) |
| 03:37.07 | inchworm | exept when you score goes up from using autopilot :) |
| 03:37.09 | binaryspike | and then there is the cheating side to it... |
| 03:37.21 | brlcad | roger itself wouldn't necessarily go away, and autopilot *certainly* wouldn't go away anytime soon |
| 03:37.27 | L4m3r | a_meteorite: I think the idea is that you can make bzrobots as good as you like |
| 03:37.27 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: on noobs servers, autopilot can hold it's own |
| 03:37.28 | binaryspike | inchworm, players don't usually like maps where auto-pilot can beat normal players |
| 03:37.50 | L4m3r | that's rarely a map issue |
| 03:37.54 | brlcad | just roger would probably be refactored into whatever new AI interface, and just be the default selected autopilot behavior |
| 03:38.06 | L4m3r | it usually comes from the level of n00bishness of the other players |
| 03:38.11 | binaryspike | L4m3r that's because the maps never make it, nobody see's it |
| 03:38.19 | L4m3r | lol |
| 03:38.32 | binaryspike | Being beaten by a bot degrades a player. That is the last thing you want on a map |
| 03:38.42 | inchworm | if you are getting killed by roger, it isn't the maps fault |
| 03:38.44 | brlcad | a_meteorite: bzrobots is a headless AI agent/client interface |
| 03:38.57 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: then disable robots.. big deal |
| 03:39.13 | L4m3r | so would the client have a similar interface for AI> |
| 03:39.14 | L4m3r | ? |
| 03:39.17 | brlcad | bzrobots intently will replace solo as it matures |
| 03:39.17 | binaryspike | a_meteorite, you can overcome the disabling of robots |
| 03:39.32 | L4m3r | and "roger" would just be a bot module, I take it... |
| 03:39.34 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: then the bug should be fixed before trying to solve with a more extravagant solution |
| 03:39.38 | binaryspike | LaserMania had problems with a guy using autopilot, and [auto] would appear next to his name |
| 03:39.43 | a_meteorite | I know the bug |
| 03:39.49 | binaryspike | It's not a bug |
| 03:40.05 | a_meteorite | unintended behaviour |
| 03:40.18 | L4m3r | leaving the [auto] is just not a thorough hack |
| 03:40.32 | binaryspike | Or was left on purpose |
| 03:40.33 | inchworm | hehe |
| 03:40.35 | L4m3r | it's just a message, after all. it's VERY easy to just leave that part off |
| 03:40.38 | a_meteorite | of course anyone can mod their client to start a bot on their end and override server settings |
| 03:40.44 | brlcad | not exactly unintended.. just undesireable -- it was a quick hack |
| 03:40.53 | binaryspike | Or you could remove roger, and implement auto-pilot server side. |
| 03:40.58 | a_meteorite | but that doesn't mean you should remove roger |
| 03:41.06 | a_meteorite | if the player is a problem, deal with him |
| 03:41.28 | a_meteorite | if you can't deal with him and you can't beat a bot (which is very very sad), play elsewhere |
| 03:41.31 | inchworm | that's not quite effective on folks liek CRW |
| 03:41.37 | L4m3r | serverside autopilot AI? sounds complicated |
| 03:41.58 | L4m3r | ...speaking of CRW, someone by that name is on ##bzchat |
| 03:42.06 | L4m3r | er, #bzchat |
| 03:42.07 | binaryspike | L4m3r, you would just have the server create a bot class and have him handle it till the user wants back |
| 03:42.08 | brlcad | there is no way to (ever) fully prevent bot clients in bzflag without closing source and signing clients (which isn't going to happen) |
| 03:42.22 | a_meteorite | exactly |
| 03:42.31 | a_meteorite | anyone could port bzrobots over to auto-pilot |
| 03:42.36 | binaryspike | Yes brlcad, but most cheaters don't have the know-how to implement new code techniques |
| 03:42.45 | brlcad | a_meteorite: wrong way |
| 03:42.47 | binaryspike | no meteorite, not anyone, a very select few people. |
| 03:42.56 | *** join/#bzflag adeadman (n=3aa53a10@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:43.11 | a_meteorite | "anyone" in the definition that no person can stop them without forcefully removing them |
| 03:43.12 | L4m3r | serverside AP would also allow the server to alter the level of intelligence of its autopilot bots |
| 03:43.17 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:43.20 | brlcad | binaryspike: huh? new code techniques? |
| 03:43.30 | binaryspike | yes like adding an auto-pilot system |
| 03:43.32 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: they do it all the time |
| 03:43.51 | binaryspike | a_meteorite, no someone like me does it and then the other guys trick him and steal the code |
| 03:43.55 | binaryspike | that's exactly what molez did to me |
| 03:44.14 | a_meteorite | well, giving code to a previously known cheater isn't a smart thing to do... :| |
| 03:44.16 | L4m3r | binaryspike: there's nothing to stop them from ripping it out of the old code... but as the branches diverge it becomes harder and harder |
| 03:44.44 | brlcad | the point was only to say that bots can't be prevented, no matter how you slice it, not that there's much point in doing so anyways .. so it's not really a big deal if bots can't be prevented 100% by a server |
| 03:44.45 | binaryspike | Yes l4m3r, maybe you and I and meteorite could remove it from the old code |
| 03:45.26 | adeadman | whats the chances of coding a random effect into a geno flag? |
| 03:45.32 | L4m3r | I honestly am more fond of the idea of being able to decide exactly how dumb autopilot clients are |
| 03:45.34 | a_meteorite | brlcad: exactly, if bots are not allowed than admins should be trained to spot one and deal as necessary. but don't rip out functaionlity that many use for good reasons. |
| 03:45.52 | binaryspike | I didn't say remove, I said *move* |
| 03:46.11 | a_meteorite | adeadman: with a plugin or as default behaviour? |
| 03:46.17 | brlcad | a_meteorite: nobody (at least none of the devs that I'm aware of) have talked about removing functionality |
| 03:46.26 | a_meteorite | brlcad: tis good thing :) |
| 03:46.30 | L4m3r | and opening some sort of interface to allow modular bot AI opens up some questions |
| 03:46.46 | binaryspike | Yes as I could easily program a perfect bot for any map |
| 03:46.48 | L4m3r | i.e. the chance that someone could make a really smart bot and use it on public servers |
| 03:46.49 | brlcad | the difference is in the particular implementation and the feature itself |
| 03:46.50 | binaryspike | I do have the AI skill |
| 03:47.18 | brlcad | autopilot is good, roger's logic is "okay", the implementation is excessively limited and will someday change probably |
| 03:47.22 | adeadman | havent thought about it, probably default that way say a one in four chance blowing up a geno will kill own team |
| 03:47.25 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: except if someone did I'm sure people would realize he is not real |
| 03:47.29 | a_meteorite | and then you have "exceptional" AI skill which the cheaters don't |
| 03:47.43 | a_meteorite | adeadman: doubtful that any current flags will be changed |
| 03:47.44 | brlcad | solo is okay, solo's logic sucks", the implementation was horrible and will change very soon |
| 03:47.57 | a_meteorite | adeadman: that can be done with a plugin, though, for servers who want that |
| 03:47.57 | binaryspike | That's the whole point! none of your cheaters have "exceptional" skill |
| 03:48.01 | adeadman | just a thought |
| 03:48.05 | binaryspike | Give a handful |
| 03:48.59 | L4m3r | adeadman: easily achievable with a plug-in... go for it :) |
| 03:48.59 | binaryspike | That's why moving everything to server side is better. Not only does it make coding a cheat harder. It reduces the amount of cheats possible |
| 03:49.00 | L4m3r | it's best not to rule out the possibility of a smart cheater |
| 03:49.06 | brlcad | adeadman: that'd also be more akin to a new flag.. and I'm not sure what the benefits are -- aside from all flags presently having rather deterministic behavior |
| 03:49.14 | brlcad | and adequate counter-flags |
| 03:49.17 | L4m3r | that's about as silly as ruling out the possibility of ANY cheaters... or griefers :) |
| 03:49.17 | adeadman | cheaters nver smart... :) |
| 03:49.45 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 03:50.41 | binaryspike | Like for example, Molez couldn't integrate a bot. Molez acquired most his code from other people. |
| 03:50.42 | brlcad | binaryspike: we're so nowhere even close to having no cheats -- the cheats will just get better .. i.e. more that really are impossible to prevent/detect reliably no matter if everything is server-side |
| 03:50.55 | adeadman | k, looks like i'm gunna learn how to do plug-ins thx people |
| 03:51.13 | brlcad | even with everything server side, there's plenty that can't be checked for |
| 03:51.27 | binaryspike | I agree |
| 03:51.27 | brlcad | it just makes the simple cheats go away |
| 03:51.37 | binaryspike | Which makes all the "simple" cheaters go away |
| 03:51.38 | brlcad | i'm glad you agree, though that's beside the fact ;) |
| 03:52.36 | binaryspike | brlcad, the best way to combat cheats is by knowing the cheats and teaching other admins how to decern |
| 03:52.51 | binaryspike | Decern between lag and actual cheating |
| 03:53.12 | binaryspike | For example, I saw a guy on lasermania preform a very blatant cheat multiple times in a row.. But the three admins didn't catch it |
| 03:53.32 | brlcad | I could rather easily make a cheat that has no discernable difference between lag and actual cheating |
| 03:53.47 | L4m3r | I've seen speed hacks that do that |
| 03:54.00 | binaryspike | Speed hacks don't give enough advantage |
| 03:54.01 | a_meteorite | I think anyone with decent knowledge of bzflag could do that :) |
| 03:54.04 | L4m3r | the guy just looked jittery |
| 03:54.38 | brlcad | a lot of them you could combat with statistical detection, but even with that.. it's not full-proof and exceptionally prone to false positives |
| 03:54.58 | binaryspike | Yeah I don't think statistical detection is a good idea... but that's just me |
| 03:55.02 | brlcad | heck, admin perceptions of cheating are even more exceptionally prone to false positives |
| 03:55.13 | binaryspike | not the norang admins ;) |
| 03:55.16 | binaryspike | especially Donny Baker |
| 03:55.45 | binaryspike | And on multiple occasions JohnDeere spotted cheats I didn't! |
| 03:55.56 | brlcad | there's no way to prove that false or true without having everyone's clients |
| 03:56.08 | L4m3r | well, there you go |
| 03:56.09 | brlcad | except for the blatent obvious ones |
| 03:56.20 | L4m3r | make the client send its entire source tree upon joining a server :) |
| 03:56.22 | binaryspike | yes and those are the ones that give the biggest advantage ;) |
| 03:56.26 | adeadman | why not a crc check as each lient comes online? |
| 03:56.34 | purple_cow | what would you crc? |
| 03:56.41 | brlcad | that's pointless |
| 03:56.45 | a_meteorite | anyone can change their crc |
| 03:56.50 | brlcad | the client could send whatever it wants |
| 03:56.58 | binaryspike | using a packet sniffer you could see a normal crc and then have your modded client send that |
| 03:57.08 | a_meteorite | yup |
| 03:57.25 | adeadman | ok then now i know |
| 03:57.34 | blast007 | you wouldn't even need to sniff... it's open source |
| 03:57.39 | a_meteorite | it's hard to protect closed-source games, even harder with open-source games |
| 03:57.52 | a_meteorite | since everyone can see how everything is done and change it at their will |
| 03:57.58 | binaryspike | blast, sniffing would be the easiest and fastest way |
| 03:58.07 | blast007 | binaryspike: no it wouldn't |
| 03:58.14 | L4m3r | I am thinking about making a serverside check that causes the game to require 2.0.8+ |
| 03:58.22 | brlcad | a_meteorite: you asked about bzrobots -- it's in the source tree and needs work if you're interestd |
| 03:58.26 | L4m3r | to stop the use of a certain idiot client |
| 03:58.26 | binaryspike | L4m3r that's a good idea |
| 03:58.30 | brlcad | based off of the great work at http://bzrc.cs.byu.edu/ |
| 03:58.36 | binaryspike | I know several people who use 2.0.2 or 2.0.4 because of it's... "features" |
| 03:58.44 | a_meteorite | brlcad: I am certainly interested, but I have no AI experience |
| 03:59.00 | a_meteorite | will take a look though |
| 03:59.04 | adeadman | crw? |
| 03:59.17 | brlcad | L4m3r: er, and wouldn't they just recompile and report as 2.0.8 then? |
| 03:59.30 | L4m3r | brlcad: the smart ones would, sure |
| 03:59.32 | brlcad | at least as it is now, you know |
| 03:59.34 | binaryspike | link is down |
| 03:59.36 | a_meteorite | adeadman: christopher reeves wheelchair, aka molez/db/or both |
| 03:59.53 | adeadman | lovely person |
| 04:00.04 | adeadman | sic |
| 04:00.06 | L4m3r | but there are a lot of people who use a certain pre-built 2.0.4 with the colored flags cheat, among other things |
| 04:00.23 | binaryspike | Yes another reason ;) |
| 04:00.24 | L4m3r | and probably could not roll their own to save their life :) |
| 04:00.42 | brlcad | L4m3r: not to mention, the vast majority of honest players not using 2.0.8 that have never caused a problem, have no need to upgrade from their perspective, and play in perfectly good faith |
| 04:00.52 | L4m3r | requiring 2.0.8 may seem a bit draconian, but it's been out for almost a year now... |
| 04:01.09 | binaryspike | maybe a plugin like nagware? |
| 04:01.16 | binaryspike | only it asks you to upgrade? |
| 04:01.16 | L4m3r | yeah, that's what I was thinking |
| 04:01.20 | L4m3r | it'd be REALLY easy |
| 04:01.36 | L4m3r | no, just a plugin that refuses the connection |
| 04:01.39 | adeadman | like he said, itll stop the simple cheats |
| 04:01.41 | inchworm | so why don't we instead just make is so only registered players can play? |
| 04:01.57 | L4m3r | that's up to the server owner |
| 04:01.58 | binaryspike | inchworm, then people would register many, many accounts |
| 04:02.21 | brlcad | the folks that are causing the problem either won't care or will cause trouble elsewhere -- for the majority, it's just a waste of *their* time for your assurance comfort (again, they weren't causing problems, playing just fine, no need to upgrade from their perspective) |
| 04:02.33 | binaryspike | L4m3r, brlcad made a good point, there are many honest players not using 2.0.8 |
| 04:02.42 | L4m3r | like I said, it |
| 04:02.47 | L4m3r | 's been a year :) |
| 04:02.48 | brlcad | not just many, the vast majority |
| 04:02.58 | inchworm | anyway, when 2.2 comes out it'll force upgrade anyway, no? |
| 04:03.04 | a_meteorite | inchworm: no |
| 04:03.06 | binaryspike | Inchworm, that's a while yet |
| 04:03.14 | a_meteorite | inchworm: people will still be able to run old servers |
| 04:03.14 | binaryspike | I am sure gonna upgrade ;) |
| 04:03.25 | L4m3r | 2.0.8 has been out a long-ass time, and we're not gonna see a 2.0.10 |
| 04:03.31 | binaryspike | a_meteorite: like they run old 1.x servers |
| 04:03.36 | binaryspike | I should check that out... |
| 04:03.41 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: yeah... |
| 04:03.55 | L4m3r | so, I think at this point I can live with annoying some lazy users a bit :) |
| 04:03.59 | a_meteorite | binaryspike: I'm sure we'll see that with 2.0 too, some people will simply not like the new features |
| 04:04.15 | L4m3r | most of them don't upgrade because releases are (were) frequent |
| 04:04.19 | a_meteorite | L4m3r: I've seen a ton of honest users use old clients because 2.0.8 crashes on them |
| 04:04.20 | binaryspike | a_meteorite: I agree, there are a couple that... irritate me |
| 04:04.25 | brlcad | it doesn't matter how long it's been out really -- it provides those honest players zero benefit, other than the "privilege" of not being nagged/kicked/heckled |
| 04:04.39 | adeadman | is it possible on the stats page of bzflag to gather stats on who uses what, like report version? |
| 04:04.46 | brlcad | might even cause them problems if 2.0.8 doesn't work (which is the case for some) |
| 04:04.48 | a_meteorite | adeadman: possible, yes |
| 04:04.49 | adeadman | its sampled every 5 anyway |
| 04:05.02 | a_meteorite | but I don't see any reason to, versions mean nothing |
| 04:05.06 | a_meteorite | versions can be modifed as well |
| 04:05.13 | binaryspike | brlcad, then if the users can't upgrade, let the plugin not nag/kick/heckle |
| 04:05.25 | adeadman | for stats purposes, you know whats out there |
| 04:05.39 | brlcad | binaryspike: the plugin has no means to know whether they can or cannot upgrade |
| 04:05.57 | binaryspike | no but an admin can tell it... |
| 04:06.02 | brlcad | other than setting up some kind of stupid whitelist |
| 04:06.35 | binaryspike | I mean a few people have gotten host banned because of people on their same network. They post and they get added to a "whitelist" |
| 04:06.36 | brlcad | that's rediculous, that's setting up an entire system for admin convenience at the cost of the vast majority of players |
| 04:06.51 | L4m3r | I'm not seeing this as a general solution for all servers |
| 04:06.52 | adeadman | cya peeps, rabbits are about to kick off |
| 04:07.07 | L4m3r | just a plug-in for servers that want it |
| 04:07.20 | binaryspike | brlcad, sometimes a better admin system makes the game a little more enjoyable |
| 04:07.40 | binaryspike | L4m3r I agree |
| 04:07.42 | brlcad | individual servers rarely care about the sociopolitical game atmosphere impact those kinds of mods make to the game |
| 04:07.43 | L4m3r | Mofo FFA has mostly 2.0.8, rarely more than two old clients at any given time |
| 04:08.32 | brlcad | many only care about their admin convenience, and only in hindsight wonder why their server slowly looses players/popularity |
| 04:08.33 | binaryspike | brlcad, that's why boxy war was such a hit.. I worked on the "atmosphere" more than the map |
| 04:08.36 | L4m3r | and match servers, for instance, would probably prefer people not use 2.0.4 to escape F5 detection :) |
| 04:09.19 | brlcad | match servers are regulated environments, the requirements are different in general -- I'm talking about any public server |
| 04:09.59 | binaryspike | I think a plugin would be good. Anything more than that is overkill |
| 04:10.31 | binaryspike | anyway I gotta get ready for tomorrow, cya guys |
| 04:10.38 | L4m3r | I haven't bothered to make it because I wanted to log a specific client |
| 04:10.47 | L4m3r | and that client has pretty much disappeared |
| 04:10.53 | brlcad | consider from the perspective of someones (highly non-technical) parents using 2.0.6 .. they don't care about upgrading until they have to (i.e. the whole network upgrades), they just play and have a good time |
| 04:12.23 | L4m3r | and anyway, I don't think such a thing would be widely adopted |
| 04:12.29 | L4m3r | look at nagware :) |
| 04:12.51 | brlcad | nagware was fad-used on a couple servers for a few months, rather annoyingly |
| 04:12.57 | brlcad | nobody likes that |
| 04:13.03 | L4m3r | it sure worked, though, heh |
| 04:13.07 | brlcad | except the admins and the programmers that wrote it |
| 04:13.36 | *** join/#bzflag deltaray (n=deltaray@static1-66-244-85-183.stfd.smithvilledsl.net) |
| 04:13.42 | deltaray | Is there some kind of quick screenshot key? |
| 04:13.47 | L4m3r | No. |
| 04:14.00 | inchworm | uh? |
| 04:14.00 | brlcad | actually I looked at it as rather a horrible failure |
| 04:14.08 | L4m3r | heh |
| 04:14.15 | inchworm | deltaray: i think it is f5 |
| 04:14.18 | deltaray | Oh, using gnome screenshot is kinda distracting. It would be nice to just take a quick screenshot and have bzflag deal with naming it, etc. |
| 04:14.38 | brlcad | sure it kept clients out, but it upset folks and caused confusion way more than it benefitted anything |
| 04:14.39 | L4m3r | I remember going on silvercat and not seeing a single unregged player, of at least 20 |
| 04:15.22 | brlcad | it's like IT folks that lock down a network and prevent you from doing anything .. sure it might be "more secure" ... when nobody can do anything and the majority of your users are upset or find alternatives |
| 04:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n_ (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 04:16.26 | L4m3r | that's the thing, though, it's not "preventing" legit players from doing anything |
| 04:16.40 | brlcad | sure it is.. it eventually kicked them |
| 04:16.43 | L4m3r | it just requires them to do some one-time setup |
| 04:16.44 | brlcad | that's horrendous |
| 04:17.07 | uso | L4m3r: but it also "cured" a lot of players from silvercat |
| 04:17.09 | brlcad | a one-time setup that provided them with zero-benefit |
| 04:17.30 | brlcad | and a requirement to an entirely horribly cumbersome and non-obvious system |
| 04:17.37 | brlcad | leave the game.. to play the game.. riiight |
| 04:17.42 | L4m3r | if global reg had no benefit, no one would do it... :P |
| 04:17.47 | deltaray | brlcad: funny. But then again we have things like TJMaxx CC theft because of users not listening to IT |
| 04:18.39 | L4m3r | deltaray: funny thing, we've had CC theft because of IT incompetence :P |
| 04:18.56 | L4m3r | er, not CC, but rather SSN... which is worse... |
| 04:18.57 | deltaray | Well, either way, its good to be secure |
| 04:19.03 | deltaray | and enforce it to some degree |
| 04:19.07 | brlcad | deltaray: sure, the problems will always occur -- there are fundamental insecurities of computing that cannot be prevented, the problem is in how you approach mitigating concerns and/or responding to issues |
| 04:20.19 | brlcad | zero-tolerance to problems occuring (and/or expectations that no incidents will occur) is (imho) absurd.. you protect the data at the level necessary |
| 04:20.24 | L4m3r | I don't necessarily agree that the percieved benefit of nagware was worth the inconvenience... but I'm not going to deny that it greatly increased the percentage of registered players for servers it was used on |
| 04:21.26 | brlcad | if you're dealing with critical data like CC information, you account for it, don't have an electronic path to that data from the internet period, etc |
| 04:21.43 | L4m3r | seriously... |
| 04:21.47 | L4m3r | *cough* |
| 04:21.49 | uso | it increased the percentage of registered users, sure, but by decreasing the absolute number of users |
| 04:22.04 | L4m3r | brlcad, did you hear about the database issue at UCLA a few months back? |
| 04:22.10 | brlcad | yep |
| 04:22.16 | L4m3r | disgusting. |
| 04:22.24 | L4m3r | I really hope some heads rolled for that one |
| 04:22.28 | uso | look at the number of players over time, silvercat is the best example |
| 04:22.34 | brlcad | were you in there? |
| 04:22.38 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 04:22.39 | L4m3r | yes |
| 04:22.43 | brlcad | heh, nice |
| 04:22.48 | L4m3r | one of oh, 800,000 |
| 04:23.06 | L4m3r | and what gets me is that the db had been compromised for A YEAR |
| 04:23.22 | brlcad | i've got no problems with registration, even requiring registration for certain contexts.. that's never been the dispute |
| 04:23.57 | L4m3r | a one-time break-in is one thing, but how do you allow an unauthorized party continued access to sensitive information for that long?! |
| 04:24.09 | L4m3r | grrr |
| 04:24.18 | brlcad | the problem has been with the way you had to register and how easy and quick that process is, the impact/feedback on non-registered users, and the alternatives/explanations |
| 04:26.11 | L4m3r | well, I had always thought that a difference in server privs was enough to encourage registration |
| 04:27.02 | brlcad | fake privs though, the servers had to be set up to remove normal privs in order to add any discernable benefit |
| 04:27.10 | brlcad | to which there are other servers |
| 04:27.19 | brlcad | so from their perspective, it's just a waste of time |
| 04:27.33 | L4m3r | not necessarily |
| 04:27.42 | brlcad | i hate my time being wasted, personally, I just want to play -- I know many others play like that too |
| 04:27.45 | L4m3r | mofo grants /say to regged players, for instance |
| 04:28.30 | L4m3r | so if someone plays frequently, sees people using it, and wants to be able to do the same, they can register |
| 04:28.30 | brlcad | and tags it by whom said it iirc |
| 04:28.37 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 04:28.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 04:28.41 | brlcad | which makes it not really any different than just typing a message |
| 04:28.42 | L4m3r | not at ours (to the admin channel only) |
| 04:29.10 | brlcad | that's still *very* peripheral |
| 04:29.19 | L4m3r | it's just an example |
| 04:29.29 | L4m3r | taking away privs is irritating |
| 04:29.39 | L4m3r | adding small benefits works better |
| 04:29.55 | L4m3r | revoking the talk perm is really stupid, IMO |
| 04:30.04 | brlcad | if something is going to be required, it should be easy to do/use, quick to setup if any setup is required, *integrated* (dammit), and provide the user with clear (global) benefit |
| 04:30.30 | brlcad | revoking talk perm is one of the most brain-dead ideas I've seen |
| 04:30.36 | L4m3r | not having my callsign squatted is a nice global benefit :) |
| 04:30.43 | brlcad | that's one |
| 04:30.56 | brlcad | if it allowed me to link profiles, that'd be another |
| 04:31.20 | brlcad | or allowed me to store/manage profiles even |
| 04:31.25 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 04:31.30 | L4m3r | the client can do that though |
| 04:31.36 | brlcad | or gave access to hidden server *groups* |
| 04:31.53 | brlcad | the client can't do that now |
| 04:31.55 | L4m3r | heh |
| 04:31.58 | brlcad | it just tracks the last settings |
| 04:32.04 | L4m3r | er |
| 04:32.10 | L4m3r | s/can/could/ |
| 04:32.17 | L4m3r | hypothetically speaking :) |
| 04:32.18 | brlcad | yes, it could |
| 04:32.29 | L4m3r | it'd be nice to have multiple callsigns tied to one account though |
| 04:32.31 | brlcad | though having it persisted would be a benefit |
| 04:32.37 | brlcad | not just client-side |
| 04:33.05 | brlcad | so I could install bz on a new machine, given my credentials, and have access to my profiles |
| 04:36.03 | deltaray | Well, that was fun. We had our first bzflag session for our weekly LUG gaming party and we had a turnout of 7. I took some screenshots. |
| 04:36.38 | brlcad | deltaray: cool |
| 04:36.57 | deltaray | It was actually a lot more fun than I expected. |
| 04:36.57 | brlcad | any useful comments/critiques? |
| 04:37.22 | brlcad | other than comparisons to a given commercial game |
| 04:37.23 | deltaray | Well, we only had a turnout of 2 for unreal tournament 2004. So its obviously a game that is more accessable to people. |
| 04:37.35 | deltaray | And easier to run on older hardware |
| 04:37.46 | deltaray | I think being able to take screenshots in game would be useful |
| 04:38.25 | deltaray | Also, I was using a logitech gamepad (rumblepad 2) and I found that the analog joystick was too sensitive. If it could be tuned somehow, that would be nice. |
| 04:38.35 | deltaray | maybe its possible from Linux. I don't know. |
| 04:38.57 | brlcad | you can take in-game screenshots.. :) |
| 04:39.00 | brlcad | F5 |
| 04:39.11 | deltaray | I tried that, where does it put the files? |
| 04:39.18 | brlcad | depends on the OS |
| 04:39.27 | deltaray | Ubuntu Linux |
| 04:39.30 | brlcad | should be near your config file |
| 04:40.12 | deltaray | It would be cool if the screenshot key was configurable. I would have made it one of my 10 buttons on the gamepad. |
| 04:42.18 | brlcad | yeah, "screenshots" dir in your config dir |
| 04:42.36 | brlcad | it is configurable |
| 04:42.48 | brlcad | you should be able to bind the buttons to "screenshot" |
| 04:43.11 | deltaray | Ok, it works. Stupid keyboard that doesn't turn on the functions keys by default. |
| 04:43.12 | deltaray | :-( |
| 04:44.07 | deltaray | I can't find the binding for screenshot in my input settings |
| 04:45.54 | brlcad | not sure what it calls joystick buttons |
| 04:46.03 | brlcad | er, s/joystick// |
| 04:46.20 | brlcad | something like "bind Button+1 down screenshot" |
| 04:46.54 | deltaray | oh, here it is in the config file. Thanks. |
| 04:47.59 | deltaray | Actually, despite my requests. I was happy that the joystick support is as good as it is. Thanks. |
| 04:48.25 | deltaray | I'm not sure if rumbling is supposed to work or not. It didn't for me. But that might be me not doing something. |
| 04:49.21 | brlcad | DTRemenak has been the joystick guru and added most of the button and rumble support |
| 04:49.57 | deltaray | Is there a way to make it so that all players automatically advance to the next map without having to rejoin? |
| 04:50.26 | brlcad | "advance to the next map"? |
| 04:50.38 | DTRemenak | rumble is highly dependent on kernel support, at both compile and run time |
| 04:51.31 | DTRemenak | and not all rumble drivers work using the rumble interface, some you need to use the directional ff support for |
| 04:51.38 | DTRemenak | even though they're nondirectionl |
| 04:51.59 | brlcad | not to mention bz's code support for a given platform .. my kernel certainly supports it at compile and run-time, but bz is oblivious ;) |
| 04:52.15 | DTRemenak | it's pretty hit and miss unless you know your whole setup (hardware, kernel, drivers, etc) |
| 04:52.34 | DTRemenak | and yeah, evdev stuff is linux only :) |
| 04:53.06 | DTRemenak | don't have anything around to test on though |
| 04:53.11 | brlcad | probably without even having a mac |
| 04:53.19 | DTRemenak | it's pretty similar to directx's ff interface |
| 04:53.24 | brlcad | it's all in a rather straightforward api |
| 04:53.39 | DTRemenak | designed by the same people (aka, logitech) |
| 04:54.52 | DTRemenak | looked at it when I was doing the wine ff stuff |
| 04:54.53 | *** join/#bzflag The_Vaxorcist (n=phillip@dial-209-148-113-22.sonic.net) |
| 04:56.29 | brlcad | FFCreateDevice(), FFDeviceCreateEffect(), FFEffectStart() .. written to be almost identical |
| 04:56.46 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 04:57.04 | brlcad | ahh, there it is: http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeviceDrivers/Reference/ForceFeedback/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000818 |
| 05:02.59 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14152 10/trunk/bzflag/TODO: (tee hee) .. force feedback joystick support for Mac OS X |
| 05:03.40 | DTRemenak | got someone around to test it? |
| 05:05.51 | *** join/#bzflag binaryspike (n=BinarySp@064-090-146-047.plateautel.net) |
| 05:07.22 | lodxcol | hi, is there a way to reset unused flags without reseting the team flags? |
| 05:10.01 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14153 10/trunk/bzflag/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): misc junk clogging up my tree...ws, warnings, yada yada yada |
| 05:10.25 | binaryspike | lodxcol, I don't think so |
| 05:10.29 | binaryspike | Who is this CIA-18!? |
| 05:10.41 | lodxcol | he lists commits to the source |
| 05:10.49 | lodxcol | I think.. |
| 05:10.53 | DTRemenak | see the second link in the topic |
| 05:10.56 | DTRemenak | real time commit monitor |
| 05:11.06 | binaryspike | ooh |
| 05:11.09 | binaryspike | yeah I checked that link out |
| 05:11.32 | binaryspike | wow you guys make commits regularly |
| 05:12.01 | lodxcol | I'm having a large problem on Missile War, if a team flag is midway between bases and flagReset runs, they get sent back home. |
| 05:12.35 | binaryspike | Yes, flag resets also use up a good portion of bandwidth |
| 05:13.38 | binaryspike | I re-wrote some code in bzfs that made flag spawn more evenly, but it wasn't patch worthy |
| 05:13.50 | brlcad | for folks' information, ohloh is failing to import because it's an https link and they have to manually accept the certificates .. so we either wait for them to notice, wait for them to add auto-accept certificate support, provide a non-https link, or make a help request to accept the certificate |
| 05:14.34 | brlcad | it's a known issue and they're working on it, adding folks one at a time in the meantime |
| 05:15.49 | binaryspike | ohloh? |
| 05:15.58 | DTRemenak | fifth link in the topic |
| 05:21.36 | binaryspike | cool |
| 05:24.00 | brlcad | nifty, so it looks like just six ff joystick functions |
| 05:25.01 | brlcad | blast007 thought I broke it too but it later worked for him when he redid something |
| 05:25.22 | brlcad | i even tried to make sure the windows build files were patched up properly.. they should be |
| 05:25.25 | DTRemenak | oh you broke it alright :) |
| 05:25.34 | brlcad | what'd I miss? |
| 05:25.43 | DTRemenak | yeah, you clearly made an attempt (good one too) |
| 05:26.17 | brlcad | updated all the paths.. anything else that changed must be code related elsewhere I'd think |
| 05:26.19 | DTRemenak | changed relative paths for zlib.h to include-dir ones, but didn't add the new zlib folder to the header search path |
| 05:26.45 | brlcad | ahhh |
| 05:27.09 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14154 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC8/ (bzflag.vcproj bzfs.vcproj mediafile.vcproj): find zlib.h |
| 05:27.10 | brlcad | makes sense, it wasn't there before |
| 05:27.13 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 05:27.20 | DTRemenak | did good with the projects though |
| 05:27.30 | DTRemenak | even moved the temp build directories |
| 05:27.44 | brlcad | getting used to text editing vc files in other places |
| 05:27.49 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 05:27.58 | DTRemenak | they're pretty straightforward |
| 05:28.02 | DTRemenak | unlike, say, vc6 :) |
| 05:28.05 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:28.21 | SportChick | ~sushi brlcad |
| 05:28.32 | ibot | ACTION fishes madly all day long & brings the very best back, filets it carefully and serves brlcad the best, freshest sushi ever |
| 05:28.37 | brlcad | they seriously could be autogenerated from a build rule |
| 05:28.41 | DTRemenak | yeah, they could |
| 05:28.45 | brlcad | hello chickie |
| 05:28.49 | DTRemenak | and some projects have it set up that way |
| 05:28.55 | brlcad | oh? |
| 05:28.58 | DTRemenak | not ours |
| 05:29.00 | brlcad | i'd yet to find a good example |
| 05:29.03 | SportChick | hi brlcad :) |
| 05:29.08 | SportChick | hey DTRemenak :) |
| 05:29.14 | DTRemenak | I'll go hunt one down for you sometime :) |
| 05:29.21 | brlcad | nifty |
| 05:30.53 | brlcad | the shell script part isn't too bad, but it'd be even more simple if you hook into the automake vars and make it a recursive build rule like "make tags" |
| 05:31.21 | DTRemenak | the, s/shell-script/automake/ :) still applies |
| 05:31.25 | brlcad | yeah |
| 05:31.26 | DTRemenak | then |
| 05:31.56 | brlcad | it's still scripting, just vars provided for you |
| 05:32.17 | brlcad | and having to deal with make stupidities |
| 05:35.36 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14155 10/trunk/bzflag/TODO: might as well stash the reference URL too |
| 06:02.41 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14156 10/trunk/bzflag/autogen.sh: fix recursive configure support for when the recursion goes more than one level deep. add more documentation on example use and vars that can be overridden. |
| 06:08.00 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14157 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/ (WinWindow.cxx WinWindow.h): heck, while I'm screwing with the platform, implement Confine Mouse on Windows too |
| 06:08.09 | DTRemenak | blast007: that make you happier? :) |
| 06:09.44 | tadd | something hickuped on bzflag.org/bb not loading |
| 06:09.57 | tadd | and server list stalled |
| 06:10.10 | tadd | but now it has come back. nm |
| 06:10.15 | tadd | both are back |
| 06:12.06 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14158 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/WinWindow.cxx: make confine mouse on windows togglable without restarting the client (oops) |
| 06:13.59 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14159 10/trunk/bzflag/NEWS: doc changes to win platform |
| 06:30.59 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14160 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/WinWindow.cxx: make mousegrab work in fullscreen too (for multi-display systems) |
| 06:40.09 | *** join/#bzflag adeadman (n=3aa53a10@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 06:47.31 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14161 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ServerStartMenu.cxx: apply patch from bug 1559731 (don't throw out the first bzw found by the start server menu) |
| 06:56.12 | *** join/#bzflag Gracey (n=GF@60-240-216-210.tpgi.com.au) |
| 06:56.22 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14162 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/commands.cxx: apply patch 1668037 from uso (check talk permission for quit/part messages) |
| 06:58.56 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
| 06:59.52 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@fedora/codergeek42) |
| 07:00.19 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14163 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/torBlock/README.txt: patch 1663662 from Josh Rogers (silverfox541) - real readme for torblock |
| 07:06.49 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14164 10/trunk/bzflag/NEWS: Check for talk permission for part/quit messages from uso's patch (sf item 1559731). add a utf-8 file coding for the unicode names. |
| 07:14.29 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14165 10/trunk/bzflag/NEWS: First map no longer ignored in Start Server menu |
| 07:15.25 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14166 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/torBlock/README.txt: eof newline |
| 07:16.38 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14167 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/NEWS: josh rogers (silverfox541) added documentation for torblock plugin (sf patch 1663662) |
| 07:31.55 | *** join/#bzflag daniel_jackson (n=bsanford@cpe-66-74-192-236.san.res.rr.com) |
| 07:34.58 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14168 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/AUTHORS: stub in initial authorship details, with a slew of UNKNOWNs that someone(tm) that knowns should fill in sometime(R) |
| 07:35.21 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14169 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/ (6 files in 6 dirs): M-q ws formatting |
| 07:36.14 | L4m3r | heh |
| 07:37.19 | brlcad | leave the bigger commit for tomorrow, needs more testing |
| 07:40.28 | Manu | hola brlcad :) |
| 07:43.12 | brlcad | hello |
| 08:20.00 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 08:50.41 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie@d54C127C6.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:08.12 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 10:02.00 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 10:02.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 10:04.31 | *** join/#bzflag Gracey (n=GF@60-240-216-210.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:10.53 | *** join/#bzflag rippawallet (i=rippawal@blinkenshell.org) |
| 10:10.56 | rippawallet | hi |
| 10:12.14 | Gracey | Hello |
| 10:12.22 | Gracey | lol |
| 10:12.27 | Rawk | no, just joking, lol |
| 10:13.14 | Rawk | hi rippawallet |
| 10:13.31 | rippawallet | sup |
| 10:13.35 | rippawallet | what servers you on |
| 10:13.47 | Gracey | none =) |
| 10:13.57 | rippawallet | :( |
| 10:13.57 | rippawallet | why |
| 10:14.01 | Gracey | servers or channels? |
| 10:14.13 | Gracey | BZFlag or this? =P |
| 10:14.22 | rippawallet | bzflag servrars |
| 10:14.29 | Gracey | yea, im on none at the moment |
| 10:14.36 | Gracey | was on MissleWars |
| 10:15.22 | Gracey | 1st day of school again tomorrow for me =P |
| 10:20.20 | rippawallet | :P |
| 10:25.22 | rippawallet | do you play the 2 towers |
| 10:25.23 | rippawallet | viper one |
| 10:32.50 | Gracey | nah, i cant play there i laf too much |
| 10:32.58 | Gracey | (im in Australia) |
| 10:34.22 | Rawk | Gracey: yeah, me too. (NZ here) |
| 10:34.34 | Gracey | S.A here =) |
| 10:36.03 | Rawk | Canterbury here ;-) |
| 10:37.04 | rippawallet | lag? |
| 10:37.08 | rippawallet | uk! |
| 10:37.09 | rippawallet | uk! |
| 10:37.32 | Gracey | ...? =P |
| 10:37.52 | rippawallet | bristol to be precise |
| 10:38.18 | Rawk | ~bzfquery 66.74.192.236:5154 |
| 10:38.52 | rippawallet | :): |
| 10:39.13 | Rawk | hmm, how to use ~bzfquery ? |
| 10:41.07 | Gracey | no idea :P |
| 10:41.13 | Gracey | ~bzfrag Rawk |
| 10:41.15 | ibot | ACTION fries Rawk with a laser |
| 10:41.56 | Rawk | owww, so much for help! that hurt! :-P |
| 10:42.13 | Gracey | heh |
| 10:42.26 | Gracey | hmm |
| 10:42.28 | Gracey | i think |
| 10:42.35 | Gracey | ~insult Rawk |
| 10:42.43 | Gracey | oopz =P |
| 10:42.58 | Gracey | didn't think that would work =) |
| 10:43.23 | Gracey | gah dont hate me Rawk! =P |
| 10:44.10 | Rawk | ~bzfquery 66.74.192.236 |
| 10:44.21 | Gracey | what is your trying to do? |
| 10:45.48 | Rawk | Gracey: @->"gah dont hate me Rawk! =P" nah, I'm all good ;-) |
| 10:46.04 | Gracey | *phew* |
| 10:47.08 | Rawk | hmm, trying to query someone's server that I couldn't seem to connect to. |
| 10:48.13 | Rawk | oh, well |
| 10:48.50 | Rawk | I got work in ~8 hrs |
| 10:48.54 | Rawk | bye |
| 10:51.01 | *** part/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 10:54.44 | *** join/#bzflag JayC123 (n=JayC@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:44.44 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 12:06.21 | *** join/#bzflag the_j0k3r (n=pizza_ma@124.189.13.6) |
| 13:32.02 | *** join/#bzflag binaryspike (n=BinarySp@064-090-146-047.plateautel.net) |
| 13:40.37 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes_ (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
| 13:41.51 | *** part/#bzflag binaryspike (n=BinarySp@064-090-146-047.plateautel.net) |
| 13:54.34 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=Winny@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 14:27.05 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=Tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:58.51 | brlcad | configure sure takes a really long time now.. *sigh* |
| 16:07.22 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14170 10/trunk/bzflag/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Refactor fullscreen code. Should be faster on windows, no functional change on other platforms, but at least readable now. |
| 16:08.26 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14171 10/trunk/bzflag/include/BzfWindow.h: forgot one |
| 16:15.49 | CIA-18 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14172 10/trunk/bzflag/src/platform/WinWindow.cxx: comments/ws/correct windowstyle |
| 16:44.38 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 16:44.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 16:57.15 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@kotnet-149.kulnet.kuleuven.be) |
| 17:34.19 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 17:40.33 | Epyon | Is there a way in BZFlag to take screenshots directly to file? |
| 17:40.59 | JeffM2501 | F5 |
| 17:41.33 | Epyon | Short, concise, on-topic. I like it ^^ |
| 17:43.22 | AAA_awright | "Starting in the BZFlag 1.7.x branch, someone posted bug number 3431 as a way to take screen shots. OpenGL is known to have difficulties taking a snapshot of the frame buffer....." |
| 17:43.44 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 17:43.55 | JeffM2501 | screenshot was added during 2.0.x |
| 17:45.06 | AAA_awright | It was just supposed to be long and off-topic :) |
| 17:45.21 | Epyon | AAA_awright xP |
| 17:46.25 | blast007 | um, ok |
| 17:46.44 | Winny | *blink* |
| 17:48.25 | Epyon | Okay, there's one thing that I still don't understand about BZW |
| 17:48.43 | Epyon | How does it calculate which areas are accessible and which not? |
| 17:48.43 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 17:48.51 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't |
| 17:49.03 | JeffM2501 | it knows you can't cross a face |
| 17:49.07 | JeffM2501 | of an object |
| 17:49.09 | Epyon | I know it has to do with the inside and outside points, but the way it does that seems like... black magic :/ |
| 17:49.10 | JeffM2501 | unless you have OO |
| 17:49.26 | JeffM2501 | it's not an area calc |
| 17:49.33 | blast007 | Epyon: you mean for spawns? |
| 17:49.44 | Epyon | Yep, so tell me, why can I jump on my monolith, but I can't jump on the pyramid? |
| 17:49.58 | JeffM2501 | pyramids are special :) |
| 17:50.02 | blast007 | jump "on", or "up" ? |
| 17:50.11 | JeffM2501 | they have there own colision code |
| 17:50.11 | Epyon | JeffM2501, they both are meshes :P |
| 17:50.16 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 17:50.26 | Epyon | There seems to be a magical invisible box surrounding the pyramid. |
| 17:50.44 | JeffM2501 | shoudn't be, unless you did draw info |
| 17:50.53 | JeffM2501 | was it a real mesh? or a meshpyr? |
| 17:50.57 | blast007 | or unless the export screwed up |
| 17:51.08 | blast007 | how did you make the map? |
| 17:51.37 | JeffM2501 | if it dosn't have any inside points it may default to bbox collisions |
| 17:51.41 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 17:51.47 | JeffM2501 | I'ts been a while since I did them |
| 17:51.58 | JeffM2501 | basicly it starts with a bbox, and then works it's way down to the per face level |
| 17:52.07 | Epyon | Hmm |
| 17:52.14 | Epyon | http://chaosforge.org/bzf_002.png |
| 17:52.16 | JeffM2501 | if thre are no inside points and it can't find out what side you are on, it may stop at bblox |
| 17:52.24 | Epyon | Screen for reference |
| 17:52.42 | JeffM2501 | but we don't keep around a "driveable volume" or anything |
| 17:52.49 | Epyon | I can jump "on" the monoliths (and stick to them) |
| 17:53.03 | JeffM2501 | the pyramid is hollow? |
| 17:53.45 | blast007 | /set _noClimb 0 |
| 17:53.57 | Epyon | But the pyramid except for the interior is surrounded by a invisible box |
| 17:54.05 | JeffM2501 | if the pyramid is hollow it's a more cimplex set of faces |
| 17:54.09 | JeffM2501 | and it will need inside points |
| 17:54.14 | Epyon | blast007, I DO want to jump on the pyramid :P |
| 17:54.16 | JeffM2501 | bridges get wierd |
| 17:54.26 | JeffM2501 | I'd break each face into it's own object |
| 17:54.38 | JeffM2501 | we generaly don't have a single "building" that you can drive inside, that is one mesh |
| 17:54.43 | Epyon | Okay, so it IS a matter of inside/outside points. |
| 17:54.48 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:54.55 | Epyon | Is there a "guideline" how to place those? |
| 17:54.59 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 17:55.01 | JeffM2501 | it's complex |
| 17:55.06 | Epyon | o.O |
| 17:55.08 | JeffM2501 | treapan did it but didn't explaint it all |
| 17:55.12 | Epyon | lol |
| 17:55.14 | JeffM2501 | it's best to break up the object into more then one mesh |
| 17:55.26 | Epyon | Ok, seems I will have to understand it myself ;] |
| 17:55.27 | JeffM2501 | if the object is convex we don't need any points |
| 17:55.49 | Epyon | And add multiexport to the 3DS exporter. |
| 17:56.05 | JeffM2501 | as I understand it, it basicly draws a line from the inside point to the tank, and tries to find out if it only corsses a set of faces once |
| 17:56.22 | JeffM2501 | outside faces should cross an even number of times |
| 17:56.33 | Epyon | Aaaah, I see. |
| 17:56.36 | JeffM2501 | but for very complex objects, that may not be good enough logic |
| 17:56.40 | JeffM2501 | so they need to be broken up |
| 17:56.42 | Epyon | And I see where my mesh has a problem :P |
| 17:56.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:57.00 | JeffM2501 | optimaly we'd have a bsp or something of the mesh with cliping planes |
| 17:57.00 | Epyon | The walls of the interior are doubled. |
| 17:57.25 | JeffM2501 | that would screw it up yes |
| 17:57.40 | Epyon | JeffM2501, I'm afraid some code changes will be neccesary if I you want my generators to produce more complex maps :/ |
| 17:57.50 | JeffM2501 | good |
| 17:57.56 | JeffM2501 | code chagnes are what this is all abbout |
| 17:58.16 | Epyon | Hey, but the problem is I'm not an expert on this topic :P |
| 17:58.24 | JeffM2501 | you don't have to be |
| 17:58.37 | Epyon | Uff... ;] |
| 17:58.38 | JeffM2501 | you just tell us what you need to do and why, and we figure out a way to do it |
| 17:58.46 | JeffM2501 | it's called colaboraton |
| 17:58.51 | JeffM2501 | your not expected to do it all allone |
| 17:59.10 | Epyon | Yeah, I heard about it. They say that some projects are even built around it xP |
| 17:59.25 | JeffM2501 | well this one wasn't :) |
| 17:59.30 | Epyon | xP |
| 17:59.31 | JeffM2501 | but we'd like to make it be done that way |
| 18:03.15 | Epyon | BTW, what's the approx vertex count a map can handle to still be considered playable? |
| 18:03.22 | Epyon | maximum vertex count that is. |
| 18:03.32 | JeffM2501 | there isn't one |
| 18:03.42 | JeffM2501 | we put it all into a bsp |
| 18:03.45 | JeffM2501 | sorry octree |
| 18:03.50 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-198.ewetel.net) |
| 18:03.52 | JeffM2501 | so not all the verts are processed at once |
| 18:04.03 | JeffM2501 | so it's realy what is visable in the frame |
| 18:04.34 | JeffM2501 | with LOD and drawinfo I've seen maps with millions of faces |
| 18:05.28 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@adsl-71-143-233-251.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:13.03 | blast007 | also depends heavily on the computer system ;) |
| 18:13.26 | blast007 | intel graphics vs GeForce 7900 GTO |
| 18:13.44 | JeffM2501 | we can make sure the LOD system works well tho |
| 18:13.54 | JeffM2501 | and tie it to the quality if it's not allready |
| 18:14.23 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p5499a60a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:17.45 | Epyon | Woah, removed some obsolete faces and vertices (the pyramid now has just 219 vertices) and added a couple of outside points and it works xP |
| 18:17.54 | wanda | hi, for days i cant connect to bz.brad.bz:1337, not even with svn trunk rev 14172. But i just saw 1 user there. any hints? |
| 18:17.55 | Epyon | http://chaosforge.org/bzf_003.png |
| 18:18.19 | Epyon | And there are no more rendering glitches too ^_^ |
| 18:23.55 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 18:28.36 | JeffM2501 | wanda,it has been busted for a while |
| 18:28.42 | JeffM2501 | tho it should be fine with current code |
| 18:29.39 | JeffM2501 | Epyon, yeah the collison code tries to infer the collision volume based on the faces and the normals, so it's picky about how the faces line up |
| 18:30.10 | JeffM2501 | wanda, do the other servers work? |
| 18:31.01 | wanda | yes, swordofkahlness servers work ok, only brad.bz does not after these days of busting ... |
| 18:31.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah, I think the brad one has special issues |
| 18:31.42 | JeffM2501 | the server probably hasn't updated in a while |
| 18:32.03 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas_ (n=Legolas_@ppp-69-236-137-185.dsl.frs2ca.pacbell.net) |
| 18:32.05 | Legolas_ | hello guys |
| 18:32.10 | JeffM2501 | hi |
| 18:32.14 | wanda | maybe ... ty so far ... |
| 18:32.18 | Legolas_ | what would be the best channel to get help on patching a client? |
| 18:32.47 | JeffM2501 | this one |
| 18:32.51 | Legolas_ | ok |
| 18:32.53 | wanda | :-) |
| 18:32.54 | JeffM2501 | what do you need to patch in? |
| 18:33.49 | Legolas_ | its a patch that allows the radar and text box sizes to be independent |
| 18:34.03 | JeffM2501 | what OS you on? |
| 18:34.08 | Legolas_ | Mac OSX |
| 18:34.17 | JeffM2501 | you have all the dev tools installed? |
| 18:34.20 | Legolas_ | yes |
| 18:34.47 | JeffM2501 | then just get the patch, and run the patch program on the dif and that should do it |
| 18:34.53 | JeffM2501 | assuming you have the source code |
| 18:35.17 | Legolas_ | not yet |
| 18:35.30 | JeffM2501 | I'd get that and make sure you can build first |
| 18:35.33 | JeffM2501 | before you deal with the patch |
| 18:35.39 | Legolas_ | yes i know |
| 18:35.46 | Legolas_ | thats what im doing now |
| 18:36.12 | JeffM2501 | make sure you have the SDL framework |
| 18:37.01 | Legolas_ | what was the latest bzflag module name? |
| 18:37.16 | JeffM2501 | we don't do modules anymore |
| 18:37.24 | JeffM2501 | we don't use CVS anymore |
| 18:37.27 | JeffM2501 | you want 2.0.x right? |
| 18:37.32 | Legolas_ | yes |
| 18:37.55 | JeffM2501 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN |
| 18:38.12 | JeffM2501 | that has the URL to use in subversion for the 2_0branch |
| 18:38.24 | JeffM2501 | svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag |
| 18:38.24 | Legolas_ | ok |
| 18:38.33 | JeffM2501 | you'll need to install subversion tho |
| 18:39.30 | Legolas_ | im just going to build it from cvs right now, see how the patch works |
| 18:40.25 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 18:41.17 | Legolas_ | once i have it built what is my next setpe |
| 18:41.18 | Legolas_ | step* |
| 18:41.32 | JeffM2501 | run patch with the diff |
| 18:41.46 | Legolas_ | do you happen to know what that is called? |
| 18:41.51 | JeffM2501 | patch |
| 18:44.03 | Legolas_ | hmm, cant seem to find it |
| 18:45.11 | JeffM2501 | where are you looking? |
| 18:45.53 | Legolas_ | under developer folder |
| 18:46.04 | JeffM2501 | it's a command line app, not a clicky thingy |
| 18:46.10 | Legolas_ | ic. |
| 18:46.14 | JeffM2501 | type patch in the terminal |
| 18:46.19 | Legolas_ | k |
| 18:46.26 | JeffM2501 | welcome to OSX development :) |
| 18:47.09 | Legolas_ | nothing seems to be happening |
| 18:47.20 | JeffM2501 | it has no interface |
| 18:47.23 | JeffM2501 | you give it paramaters |
| 18:47.31 | JeffM2501 | and pass in the diff file |
| 18:47.40 | CBG | hit Ctrl+C |
| 18:47.40 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:47.40 | CBG | then do man patch |
| 18:48.27 | Legolas_ | press ctrl+c and then type patch? |
| 18:48.36 | CBG | no... |
| 18:48.41 | CBG | just hit Ctrl+C. |
| 18:48.50 | CBG | ... THEN, type "man patch" and hit enter. |
| 18:48.57 | CBG | ... THEN, read. |
| 18:49.02 | Legolas_ | there we go |
| 18:51.06 | Legolas_ | so i would do a patch "pathorginal" "pathpatch" |
| 18:51.48 | JeffM2501 | have you ever used a command line app before? |
| 18:52.02 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 18:52.35 | Legolas_ | besides tetris. no |
| 18:52.36 | Legolas_ | :) |
| 18:53.44 | JeffM2501 | then perhaps you shoudl read up on there use |
| 18:54.30 | JeffM2501 | did you build the software and test it first? |
| 18:54.43 | Legolas_ | still building |
| 18:54.46 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 18:54.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 18:54.54 | JeffM2501 | let that go first |
| 18:55.03 | JeffM2501 | then you may want to read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_(Unix) |
| 18:56.55 | Legolas_ | $ patch < bzflag.panel-size-patch.2.0.9.diff |
| 18:56.57 | Legolas_ | would work then |
| 18:57.03 | Legolas_ | according to the wiki |
| 18:58.09 | JeffM2501 | if your in the root dir, yeah |
| 18:58.23 | JeffM2501 | and if the source code hasn't changed too much since the patch was made |
| 18:59.54 | Legolas_ | well, i hope not, becuase im using cvs, so you guys ont update it correct? |
| 19:00.16 | JeffM2501 | you probalby want patch -u < pathcinfle |
| 19:00.34 | JeffM2501 | that patch was made long before we swaped off of CVS |
| 19:00.48 | Legolas_ | what does the -u do? |
| 19:00.49 | JeffM2501 | so it is posible that changes were made after |
| 19:00.55 | JeffM2501 | tells it that it's a universal dif |
| 19:01.02 | JeffM2501 | unified actualy |
| 19:01.12 | Legolas_ | ok |
| 19:01.29 | Legolas_ | ill also need some help compiling it if i can't remember how to do it |
| 19:02.12 | JeffM2501 | did you read the mac readme is the source? |
| 19:02.32 | Legolas_ | still not done building the source, but ill read it |
| 19:03.20 | JeffM2501 | building the source IS compiling it |
| 19:04.37 | Legolas_ | heh |
| 19:05.39 | Legolas_ | what i mean is: putting it into an already downloaded bzflag program, so it doesnt give me the whole no fonts found crud |
| 19:05.47 | *** join/#bzflag JayC123_ (n=JayC@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:05.50 | *** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 19:07.40 | Legolas_ | ok |
| 19:07.42 | Legolas_ | woah |
| 19:08.08 | JeffM2501 | did you build with the command line or with xcode? |
| 19:08.15 | Legolas_ | command |
| 19:08.18 | *** part/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker) |
| 19:08.35 | JeffM2501 | when it's done build with xcode and it'll make a .app for you |
| 19:09.46 | Legolas_ | ok |
| 19:09.49 | Legolas_ | on the patch |
| 19:09.56 | Legolas_ | wait |
| 19:09.56 | Legolas_ | nvm |
| 19:10.32 | Legolas_ | keeps giving me a patch: ***/bin/ed FAILED |
| 19:10.41 | JeffM2501 | are you doing building? |
| 19:10.45 | Legolas_ | yes |
| 19:10.53 | Legolas_ | i didnt make the .app tho |
| 19:10.54 | JeffM2501 | and you've tested the compile to make sure it worked? |
| 19:11.04 | JeffM2501 | finish ONE thing then go onto the next |
| 19:11.05 | Legolas_ | let me do that |
| 19:12.41 | *** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker) |
| 19:13.53 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas_ (n=Legolas_@ppp-69-236-137-185.dsl.frs2ca.pacbell.net) |
| 19:13.54 | Legolas_ | not cool |
| 19:13.59 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 19:14.10 | Legolas_ | the bzflag.app worked, but it froze on me |
| 19:14.19 | *** join/#bzflag patlkli (n=patlkli@unixboard/users/patlkli) |
| 19:14.37 | JeffM2501 | it is development code |
| 19:15.24 | Legolas_ | what does that mean? |
| 19:15.56 | donny_baker | it means that it may or maynot work at any given moment :) |
| 19:16.00 | JeffM2501 | it hasn't goten as much testing as a full release, like 2.0.8 did |
| 19:16.27 | Legolas_ | this time it worked. |
| 19:16.33 | JeffM2501 | it's based off of .8 so it should be fine |
| 19:16.33 | Legolas_ | so, thats all done |
| 19:16.40 | JeffM2501 | ok, now patch and then rebuild |
| 19:16.46 | Legolas_ | yes, patch.. |
| 19:16.49 | Legolas_ | i need help on that |
| 19:17.12 | JeffM2501 | what are typing in the command line? |
| 19:17.32 | Legolas_ | patch -u </Users/lego/Desktop/bzflag/bzflag.panel-size-patch.2.0.9.diff |
| 19:17.47 | JeffM2501 | put a space between the < and the path |
| 19:18.20 | Legolas_ | (Stripping trailing CRs from patch.) |
| 19:18.20 | Legolas_ | can't find file to patch at input line 2 |
| 19:18.21 | Legolas_ | Perhaps you should have used the -p or --strip option? |
| 19:18.21 | Legolas_ | The text leading up to this was: |
| 19:18.21 | Legolas_ | -------------------------- |
| 19:18.21 | Legolas_ | |diff -r -x CVS bzflag.2.0.9/include/SceneRenderer.h bzflag/include/SceneRenderer.h |
| 19:18.23 | Legolas_ | -------------------------- |
| 19:18.25 | Legolas_ | File to patch: |
| 19:18.44 | JeffM2501 | what dir are you in? |
| 19:18.47 | JeffM2501 | when you run that? |
| 19:18.47 | Legolas_ | that would be fine if the bzflag.2.0.9 was bzflag |
| 19:19.05 | Legolas_ | just regular open terminal dri |
| 19:19.07 | Legolas_ | dir* |
| 19:19.13 | JeffM2501 | that isn't a "dir" |
| 19:19.23 | JeffM2501 | cd to the dir where the source is |
| 19:19.27 | Legolas_ | ok |
| 19:20.16 | Legolas_ | then run that? |
| 19:20.50 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 19:20.56 | JeffM2501 | it uses the starting dir to look for the soruce |
| 19:21.04 | Legolas_ | still the same thing |
| 19:21.25 | JeffM2501 | then I'd contact the patch author |
| 19:21.39 | Legolas_ | i need to be able to change the CVS bzflag.2.0.9 to CVS bzflag |
| 19:21.41 | Legolas_ | i think |
| 19:21.46 | JeffM2501 | try that then |
| 19:21.48 | Legolas_ | but how would i do tht? |
| 19:21.50 | JeffM2501 | it's just a text file |
| 19:21.52 | JeffM2501 | edit it |
| 19:21.58 | JeffM2501 | comeon think a little ;) |
| 19:23.05 | JeffM2501 | there are also command line options to get patch to ignore the toplevel dir or soemthing like that |
| 19:26.11 | rob1n | patch -p1 -i path/to/patch.diff |
| 19:26.27 | rob1n | where -p1 is how many levels of directories to ignore |
| 19:26.36 | rob1n | so -p0, -p1, -p2, etc |
| 19:26.38 | Legolas_ | invalid option --1 |
| 19:26.44 | Legolas_ | oh |
| 19:26.46 | Legolas_ | i get it |
| 19:28.01 | Legolas_ | jeff, should i cd to the bzflag/include? |
| 19:28.08 | Legolas_ | or just to cvs/bzflag/? |
| 19:28.09 | rob1n | just cd into bzflag/ |
| 19:28.16 | Legolas_ | cvs/bzflag right? |
| 19:28.19 | rob1n | yes |
| 19:28.28 | rob1n | but now it's SVN, just by the way |
| 19:28.36 | Legolas_ | i know |
| 19:28.57 | Legolas_ | then i do patch -u < /users/blah/patch.diff right? |
| 19:29.24 | rob1n | patch -p1 -i /users/blah/patch.diff |
| 19:29.34 | Legolas_ | hmm |
| 19:29.59 | Legolas_ | option requires arguement |
| 19:30.10 | Legolas_ | option requires arguement -- i |
| 19:30.23 | rob1n | did you add the directory on there? |
| 19:30.28 | rob1n | you don't need to < anything |
| 19:30.43 | rob1n | alternatively you could do patch -p1 < path/to/patch.diff but it's the same thing |
| 19:31.14 | Legolas_ | i did patch -p1 /Users/lego/Path/ptch.diff |
| 19:31.20 | Legolas_ | and nothing seems to have happened |
| 19:31.21 | rob1n | patch -p1 -i |
| 19:31.30 | rob1n | i'm not adding in the -i just for the hell of it |
| 19:31.41 | rob1n | -i is for input file |
| 19:32.18 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:32.23 | Legolas_ | ok, brb |
| 19:34.16 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 19:34.43 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa (n=deepa@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 19:46.35 | Legolas_ | ok |
| 19:46.41 | Legolas_ | now we're getting somewhere |
| 19:46.58 | a_meteorite | Legolas_: ? |
| 19:47.09 | Legolas_ | hi met im patching something |
| 19:47.14 | a_meteorite | what are you adding? |
| 19:50.40 | Legolas_ | radar and text independent boxes |
| 19:51.02 | a_meteorite | A clan did that already, I think... forget the clan's name... |
| 19:51.03 | Winny | that has been done already, don't waste your time |
| 19:51.06 | Winny | bah met |
| 19:51.11 | Winny | It was links 2004 |
| 19:51.36 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 19:56.19 | CBG` | he's just trying t apply that patch |
| 20:05.09 | Legolas_ | yes. i downloaded it, trying to apply |
| 20:10.25 | Legolas_ | it doesnt want to work |
| 20:14.30 | *** join/#bzflag Flash (n=jwmelto@unaffiliated/flash) |
| 20:16.11 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-198.ewetel.net) |
| 20:17.23 | Legolas_ | ok, ok i think i got it |
| 20:17.35 | Legolas_ | running the xcode build |
| 20:18.00 | DTRemenak | brlcad: pingy |
| 20:18.27 | Legolas_ | hmm does it usually take this long?? i dont think so.. still Running 1 of 2 custom shell scripts.. |
| 20:18.53 | Flash | it's long for me |
| 20:19.16 | Legolas_ | is there a way to view what is happening? |
| 20:19.16 | Legolas_ | ok. |
| 20:19.28 | ts | Script #1 is compiling, script #2 is copying the data |
| 20:19.34 | Flash | no, there really isn't any feedback into the script |
| 20:19.44 | ts | script #2 will fail on svn checkout source trees |
| 20:19.54 | JeffM2501 | he's not using trunk |
| 20:20.06 | ts | The solution is to edit script #2 by hand |
| 20:20.55 | *** join/#bzflag cods (n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods) |
| 20:21.00 | ts | JeffM2501: I didn't refer only to trunk, rather to SVN checkouts |
| 20:21.15 | a_meteorite | can the sigs get any bigger than this? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=107370#107370 |
| 20:21.30 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:21.37 | JeffM2501 | tho he's also not even using svn :) |
| 20:21.48 | JeffM2501 | but yeah CVS probalby had the same issues too |
| 20:21.55 | Legolas_ | hmm |
| 20:22.00 | Legolas_ | i got it to work.. i think |
| 20:22.05 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p5499a60a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:22.07 | Legolas_ | but in bzflag nothing new happened |
| 20:23.10 | Legolas_ | because, when it said File to patch: i entered it in by hand.. and then it said stripping trailing CRs from patch and moved onto the next one |
| 20:24.00 | Legolas_ | unless xcode isnt building it correctly? |
| 20:24.58 | ts | The xcode scripts for in svn repositories need to be updated |
| 20:25.11 | ts | The trunk one was updated but in a wrong way |
| 20:25.22 | JeffM2501 | ts, he's using 2.0.9 branch code from old CVS |
| 20:25.22 | ts | and the v2_0branch one copies too much data |
| 20:25.49 | Legolas_ | well i thought i was, its 2.1 prealpha.... |
| 20:25.56 | ts | JeffM2501: I did never say old cvs script wouldn't work on a cvs checkout |
| 20:26.57 | JeffM2501 | I'm just leting you know what he is using, so you can talor your info to what he has :) |
| 20:27.04 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure SVS is just as busted |
| 20:27.08 | JeffM2501 | CVS even |
| 20:27.09 | ts | I know, I read it above |
| 20:27.29 | ts | Just replied to the question he had.. |
| 20:27.36 | JeffM2501 | is there a reason the scripts in SVN have not been fixed? |
| 20:27.46 | ts | My lazyness |
| 20:28.27 | ts | I got it even working in a copy here but thought I first clean my checkout..turned out like I deleted the fix and was too lazy to fix it again |
| 20:31.48 | Legolas_ | aha! |
| 20:32.00 | Legolas_ | this might be why it is not working |
| 20:32.11 | Legolas_ | xcode does have some errors in the build |
| 20:32.23 | Legolas_ | ../../include/SceneRenderer.h:87: error: 'int SceneRenderer::getPanelSize() const' and 'int SceneRenderer::getPanelSize() const' cannot be overloaded |
| 20:32.23 | Legolas_ | ../../include/SceneRenderer.h:104: error: 'void SceneRenderer::setPanelSize(int)' and 'void SceneRenderer::setPanelSize(int)' cannot be overloaded |
| 20:32.23 | Legolas_ | ../../include/SceneRenderer.h:232: error: declaration of 'int SceneRenderer::panelSize' |
| 20:32.23 | Legolas_ | ../../include/SceneRenderer.h:227: error: conflicts with previous declaration 'int SceneRenderer::panelSize' |
| 20:32.38 | Legolas_ | any suggestions? |
| 20:32.57 | JeffM2501 | fix them |
| 20:33.02 | JeffM2501 | the code changeded inbetween |
| 20:33.04 | CBG` | please learn to use a pastebin for pastes more than about 3 or 4 lines |
| 20:33.27 | JeffM2501 | you have calls to a version that takes an int and one that dosn't |
| 20:34.00 | gsnedders | CBG`: that paste was 4 lines. it wasn't more than 4 :P |
| 20:34.19 | CBG` | gsnedders: sure, but he had 4 other lines infront and/or behind |
| 20:37.06 | Legolas_ | how would i go about fixing it Jeff? |
| 20:37.11 | JeffM2501 | you'd fix the C++ code |
| 20:37.16 | JeffM2501 | by hand |
| 20:43.04 | Flash | rob1n: that was a short lunch |
| 20:48.18 | DTRemenak | brlcad: r13974 and higher of autogen.sh give me http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/464971 and my shell-fu is not strong enough |
| 20:50.18 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:4cb1:b973:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 20:50.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 20:52.53 | *** part/#bzflag deltaray (n=deltaray@static1-66-244-85-183.stfd.smithvilledsl.net) |
| 20:59.20 | rob1n | DTRemenak, what shell is that, out of curiousity? tcsh? |
| 21:01.23 | ruskie | it's rather clear the way I see it... the argument list to commands it's to long |
| 21:01.46 | ruskie | it's trying to pass to many things to the commands at once |
| 21:01.56 | DTRemenak | bsd sh - an ash derivative iirc |
| 21:02.26 | ruskie | where are those commands called from |
| 21:02.29 | DTRemenak | and I know that the argument list is too long, but I can't even figure out what the arguments it's trying to pass ARE |
| 21:02.34 | DTRemenak | autogen.sh |
| 21:02.46 | ruskie | DTRemenak, put set -x on top of the file |
| 21:02.52 | ruskie | that wil print a TON of extra info |
| 21:03.01 | ruskie | I think it's -x |
| 21:03.04 | ruskie | might be +x |
| 21:03.07 | ruskie | I always confuse them |
| 21:03.22 | ruskie | just afte the shebang line that is |
| 21:03.52 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 21:04.53 | DTRemenak | hmmm...looks like expansion problems maybe? |
| 21:05.08 | DTRemenak | + sed s/^[ ]*AC_CONFIG_SUBDIRS(\(.*\)).*/\1/ |
| 21:05.10 | DTRemenak | ./autogen.sh: sed: argument list too long |
| 21:12.11 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p5499a60a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:23.50 | *** part/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p5499a60a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag zee120 (i=ac9f7854@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-cfab3f1de4ed2ce2) |
| 21:49.06 | zee120 | wow anyone seen this ? http://bzflagcheat.blogspot.com/ (in honour of SportCunt) |
| 21:49.18 | a_meteorite | yes, you really needn't post it |
| 21:49.30 | zee120 | nah its good |
| 21:49.32 | zee120 | its been updated |
| 21:49.36 | zee120 | nice new cheatclient on there |
| 21:49.41 | zee120 | and news about u :P |
| 21:49.43 | zee120 | heh |
| 21:49.47 | zee120 | _meteorbite ! |
| 21:49.56 | zee120 | http://bzflagcheat.blogspot.com/ |
| 21:49.58 | zee120 | seriously though |
| 21:50.00 | zee120 | check it out |
| 21:50.08 | SportHo | :P |
| 21:50.11 | SportHo | http://bzflagcheat.blogspot.com/ |
| 21:50.12 | a_meteorite | someone do something about this dude |
| 21:50.15 | SportHo | http://bzflagcheat.blogspot.com/ |
| 21:50.18 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 21:50.21 | SportHo | cheat clients !! |
| 21:50.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+b *!*ac9f7854@*] by DTRemenak |
| 21:50.21 | ruskie | I guess some should +q this guy |
| 21:50.31 | a_meteorite | so molez |
| 21:50.32 | *** kick/#bzflag [SportHo!i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak] by DTRemenak (DTRemenak) |
| 21:50.50 | blast007 | ..... |
| 21:50.58 | ruskie | I'd just +q the guy... |
| 21:51.05 | ruskie | he can't speak he can't do anything :) |
| 21:52.37 | blast007 | ruskie: he can switch to offensive nicks though |
| 21:55.51 | Birdie | why not just ban not real clients here? noobs with questions can go to #bzchat? |
| 21:56.58 | ruskie | and spam there |
| 21:57.12 | Birdie | well |
| 21:57.22 | Birdie | guess my idea was stupid |
| 21:57.27 | ruskie | personaly I'd just ban web clients |
| 22:03.15 | Flash | what does jitter measure? |
| 22:05.14 | CBG` | variance in lag |
| 22:05.15 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (n=Matthew@c-69-251-104-254.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:05.37 | Flash | hmmm |
| 22:06.03 | Flash | so how can someone have 80ms lag and 100ms jitter? |
| 22:06.33 | blast007 | why couldn't they? |
| 22:06.49 | CBG` | blast007: it implies a potential for negative lag |
| 22:06.59 | Flash | if it's variance, that means their lag is (roughly) -20 to 180ms |
| 22:07.05 | CBG` | as if the player is somehow inSIDE the server :o |
| 22:07.34 | blast007 | or their lag NOW is 80, and it's recently varied by 100ms |
| 22:07.58 | blast007 | I'm not sure how the jitter calc is done, but the lag calc is an average of some sort |
| 22:11.18 | CBG` | lol, molez didn't make the source available his latest cheat client. |
| 22:11.33 | ruskie | well now it's possible to sue him :) |
| 22:11.54 | CBG` | indeed |
| 22:12.05 | CBG` | TimRiker: ping |
| 22:24.23 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 22:28.54 | *** join/#bzflag i-- (n=cccc@201.80.232.117) |
| 22:29.14 | *** part/#bzflag i-- (n=cccc@201.80.232.117) |
| 22:37.51 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:40.06 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pool-71-109-227-134.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:40.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 22:47.30 | *** join/#bzflag Crooper (n=salty@pool-71-253-247-245.nrflva.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:47.37 | Crooper | what app do i use to make my own maps in linux? |
| 22:47.38 | ruskie | $EDITOR |
| 22:47.38 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/ (Check the "Map Making" section) |
| 22:47.39 | Crooper | ok...thnx |
| 22:47.46 | blast007 | many of them don't support full 2.0.x stuff though |
| 22:47.59 | blast007 | the majority of editors have only the 1.7 or 1.10 features |
| 22:48.22 | blast007 | so there may be some hand editing required :) |
| 22:48.54 | blast007 | the map format is documented in the 'bzw' man page, and is a plain text file |
| 22:49.17 | Crooper | ok...i got the bzedit for my little brothers but they're on windows...i'm on linux |
| 22:49.32 | blast007 | yup |
| 22:49.37 | ruskie | so just use your favorite editor |
| 22:49.47 | blast007 | PyBZEdit might be one to try, but some say the UI isn't that great |
| 22:49.49 | DTRemenak | it's a text format, vi or emacs works fine |
| 22:49.56 | ruskie | agreed |
| 22:50.01 | Crooper | not familiar with any...i'm all about music |
| 22:50.31 | blast007 | DTRemenak: or PHP! |
| 22:50.35 | blast007 | ;) |
| 22:50.40 | DTRemenak | ...? |
| 22:51.06 | DTRemenak | yeah, or generate it procedurally |
| 22:51.29 | Crooper | oh...so i could use wings or blender and save it with the .bzw ext |
| 22:51.46 | DTRemenak | yes, you can export from 3d modellers |
| 22:51.56 | blast007 | blender+BZWTools is a more complete solution, but harder to learn |
| 22:52.18 | Crooper | now that i like ... but is there a limit to how detailed ya can get? |
| 22:52.31 | JeffM2501 | more geometry will mean slower maps |
| 22:52.49 | a_meteorite | Crooper: there are some hard limits with what you can do, but mostly the sky's the limit |
| 22:53.00 | Crooper | that's what's wrong with some of the online world's |
| 22:53.01 | a_meteorite | like no "real" animation exists, but other than that.. |
| 22:53.12 | DTRemenak | 'course the size of the sky varies by world |
| 22:53.20 | blast007 | hehe |
| 22:53.23 | Crooper | lol |
| 22:54.19 | Crooper | so basic to medium geometery should be fine for the average comp setup? |
| 22:54.36 | a_meteorite | define "basic" to "medium" |
| 22:54.54 | Crooper | hmmmm...let get the words together |
| 22:55.01 | Crooper | me even |
| 22:55.07 | JeffM2501 | it's best to test as you make the map |
| 22:55.11 | JeffM2501 | so you can get a feel for it |
| 22:55.17 | L4m3r | it's more about map structure than raw poly count, also |
| 22:55.36 | Crooper | ok... the default map would be basic |
| 22:55.42 | L4m3r | iirc Louman can get away with tens of thousands of tris in a map, but his are well optimized |
| 22:56.32 | Crooper | or would you consider that medium |
| 22:57.06 | blast007 | the default map is "minimal" :) |
| 22:57.20 | Crooper | ok...that's what i need to know thnx |
| 22:57.47 | Crooper | thnx for being paitent with me.... |
| 22:57.52 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright__ (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 22:58.21 | blast007 | heck, in 2.1's experimental quality mode, each bullet generates about 1000 tris |
| 22:59.40 | Crooper | i watch my brothers while my parents are away...i'm 36 and they are 1@16 2@13 and bzflag is the best babysitting app i've ever had |
| 22:59.52 | blast007 | hehe |
| 22:59.58 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@76.205.116.99) |
| 23:00.41 | Crooper | i network the computers together and before ya know it there's 10 teenagers on 4 pewters just as calm as can be...lol |
| 23:00.43 | Tedius | so if I type a_meteorite, his client will alert him? |
| 23:00.53 | blast007 | Tedius: yeah |
| 23:00.53 | a_meteorite | yes. |
| 23:00.58 | blast007 | :) |
| 23:00.58 | Tedius | cool |
| 23:01.06 | a_meteorite | what can I do ya for? |
| 23:01.16 | Tedius | just wanted to let you know CRW is using your name again |
| 23:01.36 | Tedius | 91.121.6.52 is the server |
| 23:01.46 | Tedius | called Nupik approved rules |
| 23:02.22 | a_meteorite | roger |
| 23:02.37 | a_meteorite | he will feel my wrath |
| 23:02.41 | KTL | hehe |
| 23:02.42 | Tedius | hehe |
| 23:02.46 | JeffM2501 | just what he wants |
| 23:02.47 | JeffM2501 | good job |
| 23:02.49 | Crooper | ok...so off i go...wish me luck and if any are any good i'll let ya know |
| 23:02.52 | Crooper | cya |
| 23:02.59 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: banning him? |
| 23:03.03 | *** part/#bzflag Crooper (n=salty@pool-71-253-247-245.nrflva.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:03.07 | a_meteorite | too bad, I'm gonna ban him anyways |
| 23:03.21 | JeffM2501 | the wrath part |
| 23:03.31 | JeffM2501 | if a ban on a dynamic IP is all ya got, whopty do |
| 23:03.32 | a_meteorite | wrath == ban |
| 23:03.35 | KTL | in a release the server could have some ip's banned by default ... :) |
| 23:03.36 | a_meteorite | I don't say a word |
| 23:03.36 | JeffM2501 | then that's sad |
| 23:03.47 | a_meteorite | he doesn't come back immediately after a ban |
| 23:03.50 | a_meteorite | he server hops |
| 23:03.53 | JeffM2501 | KTL, we have masterban for that |
| 23:04.34 | a_meteorite | Tedius: server isn't on the list and I can't connect :\ |
| 23:04.43 | Tedius | nope, it just shutdown |
| 23:04.46 | blast007 | a_meteorite: it's down now |
| 23:04.51 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 23:05.23 | KTL | mmm i found something i want to see changed in the client |
| 23:05.39 | KTL | the hunted players on the scorelist |
| 23:05.45 | KTL | as a result of me hunting them ... |
| 23:05.53 | KTL | they reconnect |
| 23:05.58 | KTL | and then they are not hunted anymore |
| 23:06.00 | Birdie | ch weelchair is a buddy from molez, cause molez told me meteorite said something (cant remember what) and thats why he is picking on meteorite now (and i'm pretty sure weelchair isnt molez) |
| 23:06.03 | KTL | so they can sneak up to me again |
| 23:06.04 | JeffM2501 | we don't know it's realy them |
| 23:06.20 | Tedius | he's on ah3's server now |
| 23:06.32 | Birdie | oh its molez who is doing the spamming, he told me himself |
| 23:06.44 | Birdie | and he is proud of it |
| 23:06.46 | JeffM2501 | Birdie, that wasn't to you that was to KTL |
| 23:06.48 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: he addmitted to owning bzflagchat, didn't he? |
| 23:06.49 | Birdie | ah sry |
| 23:06.54 | a_meteorite | *bzflagcheat |
| 23:07.00 | JeffM2501 | does it matter? |
| 23:07.16 | a_meteorite | yeah, new activity on the site. doesn't he get punishment officially? |
| 23:07.42 | JeffM2501 | what would another website have to do with our project? |
| 23:07.47 | *** join/#bzflag romfis (n=3eb26b18@vs189182.vserver.de) |
| 23:07.51 | JeffM2501 | what are we? his mom? |
| 23:08.02 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: I do think one of the downloads violates the GPL |
| 23:08.04 | a_meteorite | publishing cheat clients, making fun of you, me, and admitting to cheating on non-cheat servers? |
| 23:08.12 | a_meteorite | isn't that enough? |
| 23:08.21 | a_meteorite | L4m3r: yeah, and that too... |
| 23:08.28 | a_meteorite | he didn't provide the source to one of his clients |
| 23:08.37 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, then you should let tim know of the violation |
| 23:08.51 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, any client can be distributed as long as it's under the LGPL |
| 23:08.55 | L4m3r | CBG is already on it :) |
| 23:09.02 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: he didn't distribute the source |
| 23:09.13 | JeffM2501 | making "fun" of somone is not an offence against the project |
| 23:09.15 | a_meteorite | plus I reported the file to the file hoster before CBG even said anything:) |
| 23:09.17 | JeffM2501 | and servers can admin there selves |
| 23:09.25 | JeffM2501 | then that will take care of itself |
| 23:09.27 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: breaking the license is |
| 23:09.32 | romfis | hello all! |
| 23:09.34 | JeffM2501 | and that has to do with TIM and him |
| 23:09.36 | JeffM2501 | not the rest of us |
| 23:09.44 | JeffM2501 | Tim granted the liceense |
| 23:10.11 | JeffM2501 | any action we take against him will be based on his use of public services |
| 23:10.15 | JeffM2501 | and will be between us and him |
| 23:10.29 | a_meteorite | so cheating on public servers isn't considered an offense? |
| 23:10.32 | romfis | JeffM and q dot please make a channel to privat... :( |
| 23:10.34 | a_meteorite | mass-cheating, might I add |
| 23:10.38 | romfis | *:) |
| 23:10.42 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, servers are not run buy the project |
| 23:10.43 | JeffM2501 | you know this |
| 23:10.54 | JeffM2501 | that's where it ends |
| 23:11.07 | JeffM2501 | we don't list cheat servers |
| 23:11.07 | romfis | cheat warnig... |
| 23:11.22 | JeffM2501 | romfis, we are talking about project policy |
| 23:11.28 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: you guys masterban people who are major problems to multiple servers, but since you can't masterban him you can't restrict his account? ... ok, whatever |
| 23:11.33 | L4m3r | what about IRC abuse? (if conclusive evidence was available) |
| 23:11.36 | romfis | i have what for Jeffm and qdot |
| 23:11.50 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, that is taken into account to |
| 23:11.58 | JeffM2501 | I never said we didn't do anything to his accounts |
| 23:12.09 | JeffM2501 | you assumed it when you didn't see a big public stink about it |
| 23:12.15 | JeffM2501 | but it's between the admins and him |
| 23:12.20 | JeffM2501 | so you didn't |
| 23:12.34 | JeffM2501 | he's dynamic so masterban won't do anything |
| 23:12.35 | a_meteorite | well, I just thought we should know about major stuff when it affects everyone |
| 23:12.38 | romfis | i must send a URL on a admin here, sry |
| 23:12.45 | a_meteorite | but you can at least restrict his global account |
| 23:12.45 | L4m3r | mmhm, I just wasn't sure if that constituted a "public service" or not, since it's not 100% run by the project |
| 23:12.50 | *** join/#bzflag Jefenry (n=jeffreyd@pool-162-83-123-169.norf.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:13.05 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, if you want to know, you can ask an admin in private |
| 23:13.13 | JeffM2501 | we are not global cops |
| 23:13.28 | JeffM2501 | you all need to get that into your heads |
| 23:13.50 | CBG` | so what exactly is the masterbanlist? |
| 23:15.29 | *** join/#bzflag The_Vaxorcist (n=phillip@dial-209-148-114-252.sonic.net) |
| 23:15.39 | blast007 | CBG`: a text file |
| 23:16.34 | Winny | *bam* |
| 23:16.44 | CBG` | *LOWBLOW* |
| 23:17.16 | DTRemenak | masterban is a limited service provided at the request of the server owners. anything beyond what we currently have in place needs to be opt-in not opt-out, and at that point y'all can get together and do it yourselves |
| 23:17.44 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 23:17.55 | DTRemenak | if you want global cops, start appointing them and give them access on your servers |
| 23:17.57 | JeffM2501 | if we wanted to run servers, we'd not allow anyone to list |
| 23:18.36 | DTRemenak | if you want shared banlists, host one and convince other server owners to add a masterbanurl to it (you can specify multiple masterbanurls, y'know) |
| 23:19.31 | DTRemenak | if you're missing some sort of infrastructure or bzfs features, ask for them, and you might receive |
| 23:20.39 | a_meteorite | DTRemenak: we already asked for more anti-cheating features ;) |
| 23:20.57 | DTRemenak | we're workin' on it :P |
| 23:21.20 | a_meteorite | yeah, but 2.0 is gonna be around for a long time... |
| 23:21.27 | a_meteorite | the way 2.1 is developing that is |
| 23:21.34 | DTRemenak | who says? |
| 23:21.49 | blast007 | a_meteorite: even if 2.2 was released today, 2.0 would be around for a while :P |
| 23:22.25 | a_meteorite | DTRemenak: using logic |
| 23:22.40 | The_Vaxorcist | it's a conspiracy - the devs are putting off adding anticheating stuff so they can rack up points |
| 23:22.43 | a_meteorite | some things are still quite buggy, and by what I've heard many features that were wanted have not been implemented |
| 23:22.44 | The_Vaxorcist | :P |
| 23:23.50 | Winny | hehe |
| 23:24.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's it, you know we are lazy |
| 23:24.04 | The_Vaxorcist | explains everything |
| 23:25.29 | Winny | ~pw |
| 23:25.37 | ibot | rumour has it, patches welcome is a common response by maintainers of Open Source products. It's roughly means "We don't have much time on our hands, so if you write that feature and send it to us we will likely roll it in. If you don't have the time to write it, we don't either. Stop asking for it." |
| 23:25.37 | DTRemenak | shush, I was building up to it :) |
| 23:25.37 | Winny | bah |
| 23:27.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah get a book, learn |
| 23:28.47 | JeffM2501 | cast 2 rays |
| 23:28.49 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: I took about 1.5 months of geometry and some pre-trig :) |
| 23:28.51 | JeffM2501 | see when they it :) |
| 23:28.58 | JeffM2501 | ooooo 1.5 MONTHS |
| 23:28.59 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 23:29.00 | a_meteorite | still not enough |
| 23:29.05 | a_meteorite | I know, my point |
| 23:29.12 | JeffM2501 | so learn on your own |
| 23:29.19 | DTRemenak | or take more |
| 23:29.20 | JeffM2501 | instead of wasting the time to gripe about it |
| 23:29.31 | a_meteorite | DTRemenak: new school doesn't offer it, I'd have to learn on my own :( |
| 23:29.43 | a_meteorite | DTRemenak: it's nice to have a teacher be able to explain it |
| 23:29.46 | DTRemenak | a_meteorite: community colleges offer it just about everywhere |
| 23:29.57 | a_meteorite | that'd be a good route for my next college class |
| 23:30.06 | a_meteorite | that is, if it's one of those College Now programs |
| 23:30.27 | a_meteorite | High school will only let me take one college course at a time for some reason... |
| 23:30.42 | DTRemenak | most CC's are public-enrollment, you can just go sign up on your own |
| 23:30.56 | a_meteorite | I have to be concurrently enrolled to get HS credit |
| 23:31.05 | DTRemenak | I didn't say anything about credit |
| 23:31.21 | a_meteorite | oh! just take the course to learn it for the sake of learning :) |
| 23:31.26 | JeffM2501 | duh |
| 23:31.26 | DTRemenak | umm yeah |
| 23:31.45 | rob1n | is anyone here familiar with setting up mail servers on linux? |
| 23:32.24 | a_meteorite | rob1n: I bet #sendmail would |
| 23:32.57 | rob1n | yes, but many bzflag server operators here are also familiar with other aspects of managing a *nix server |
| 23:33.35 | rob1n | and sendmail is horrible |
| 23:33.44 | DTRemenak | sendmail is indeed horrible |
| 23:34.27 | a_meteorite | there are others |
| 23:34.33 | rob1n | postfix is what i'm looking at |
| 23:34.37 | rob1n | in replacement of sendmail |
| 23:34.51 | blast007 | #postfix |
| 23:34.52 | rob1n | but the best ubuntu guide i've found so far (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PostfixCompleteVirtualMailSystemHowto) does waaaay too much |
| 23:35.03 | DTRemenak | then perhaps one of #postfix' 154 users would help |
| 23:35.10 | L4m3r | whoa, slow down |
| 23:35.25 | L4m3r | ubuntu for a mail server? that sounds, like, utterly wasteful :P |
| 23:35.53 | rob1n | L4m3r, well, the alternative for me is debian, but i'd rather have packages that are up to versions released this century, y'know? |
| 23:35.55 | DTRemenak | you could also try #qmail or #exim :) |
| 23:36.35 | menotume | hmm, the spammer was AOL Europe, who do we know there i wonder :P |
| 23:36.49 | DTRemenak | some open proxy probably |
| 23:36.51 | blast007 | menotume: probably a proxy |
| 23:36.58 | menotume | AOL ? |
| 23:37.13 | blast007 | sure, why not? |
| 23:37.18 | L4m3r | someone violating his TOS :P |
| 23:37.23 | menotume | ahh, ya |
| 23:37.34 | menotume | well, i don't think it was a proxy actually :) |
| 23:37.54 | menotume | what's the point with AOL dynamic IPs |
| 23:38.30 | L4m3r | my ceramics teacher in HS did that too, to get around school filters |
| 23:38.47 | L4m3r | he used Fedora... heh. I was totally shocked when I found out he was a computer guy. |
| 23:38.53 | DTRemenak | exactly |
| 23:38.55 | a_meteorite | I used to run a web-based one too, but I'd be afraid they would block https traffic |
| 23:39.29 | a_meteorite | I've seen extremely stupid blocks |
| 23:39.29 | L4m3r | I just used windoze RDC since they were never clever enough to block it |
| 23:39.38 | DTRemenak | a_meteorite: I ran on port 80 :) |
| 23:39.46 | a_meteorite | openclipart.org was deemed as "games" |
| 23:39.50 | a_meteorite | go figure |
| 23:40.03 | a_meteorite | was gonna get a vector for an assignment... |
| 23:40.16 | DTRemenak | course I was using 443 for RDP |
| 23:40.32 | blast007 | a_meteorite: I once tried to go to an article about an electric car (was doing a research paper) and it was blocked... :/ |
| 23:40.44 | L4m3r | and yes, I use debian unstable too... well, testing, now, with the release of Etch |
| 23:40.53 | blast007 | and I had gone to it from home, and it was just that... an article about an electric car |
| 23:41.19 | DTRemenak | I was once asked by my history teacher to explain to the class how to get around the filters |
| 23:41.28 | L4m3r | lol |
| 23:41.30 | KTL | hehe |
| 23:41.40 | DTRemenak | ww2 with no nazis isn't very interesting :) |
| 23:41.48 | rob1n | haha |
| 23:42.01 | L4m3r | I pulled the SAM and bruteforced it from home, to get the admin pass in the school cs lab |
| 23:42.04 | The_Vaxorcist | oooh |
| 23:42.26 | L4m3r | because it was basically run by a student, and he was really opressive with his policies... made us use Mozilla (not firefox) ! |
| 23:42.30 | Winny | our school has a stupid filter, someone set the perms wrong. You suppost to need to be a teacher to pass it, but someone set the access level to 1(aka kids) instd of 2 (teahcers) |
| 23:42.39 | L4m3r | lol |
| 23:42.54 | L4m3r | it was a 6char pass, "phuket" |
| 23:43.13 | L4m3r | my computer cracked it in five minutes |
| 23:43.19 | L4m3r | :D |
| 23:43.27 | KTL | lol :D |
| 23:43.49 | L4m3r | from that point forward CS was a lot easier to live with |
| 23:43.58 | L4m3r | "YAY, we can right-click again!" |
| 23:44.48 | L4m3r | I also love it when places block cmd, but allow you to just save a batch file and use that instead |
| 23:44.54 | DTRemenak | we (tech team) had the admin passwords on the local machines, and our idjit it guy set the backup user to the same password, and made him domain admin...one of us logged into it by accident, and immediately set up a backdoor domain admin |
| 23:44.55 | Winny | Novell Zenworks is stupid, to get past the "no external drives" you just open the drive in a web browser |
| 23:47.09 | DTRemenak | all the filtering/control software I know of has similarly bad (easily exploitable) holes |
| 23:47.34 | DTRemenak | fact is, if someone wants control over a machine that they have unrestricted physical access to, they'll get it |
| 23:51.05 | *** join/#bzflag lodesi (n=lds@fydelkass.inl.fr) |
| 23:52.23 | *** part/#bzflag lodesi (n=lds@fydelkass.inl.fr) |
| 23:53.27 | *** join/#bzflag tankzilla (n=tankzill@ool-4572e362.dyn.optonline.net) |
