IRC log for #bzflag on 20070421

`00:00.42`	`ryanakca`	`blast007: -ddd works... doesn't work with bzfs -world atlantis.bzw -conf /etc/bzfs.conf`
`00:03.03`	`brlcad`	`blast007: hehe`
`00:03.09`	`brlcad`	`apparently not ;)`
`00:03.49`	`*** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
`00:04.37`	`blast007`	`ryanakca: check if the map file specifies a -p setting in it's 'option' block`
`00:04.45`	`blast007`	`if it does, remove that line`
`00:05.07`	`blast007`	`and also verify you're using the right -p (port) setting in your config file`
`00:05.08`	`ryanakca`	`nope`
`00:05.20`	`blast007`	`-p 5154, for example`
`00:05.26`	`blast007`	`which is actually the default`
`00:08.56`	`ryanakca`	`I have '-pf' ?`
`00:09.23`	`*** join/#bzflag trovao (n=trovao@201.78.241.29)`
`00:10.12`	`ryanakca`	`changing it to '-p 5154' doesn't do anything...`
`00:10.23`	`ryanakca`	`shall I pastebin the map and the config?`
`00:13.20`	`ryanakca`	`blast007: map http://pastebin.ca/450656 (missing an 'end' at the end of the map file in pastebin...)`
`00:13.44`	`blast007`	`ah`
`00:13.52`	`blast007`	`let me look quick`
`00:14.11`	`ryanakca`	`bzfs.conf http://pastebin.ca/450657`
`00:17.23`	`blast007`	`probably the -i`
`00:17.39`	`blast007`	`that is looking for the ethernet interface address`
`00:17.54`	`blast007`	`not needed unless you have multiple network cards on the server box`
`00:18.33`	`blast007`	`unless that's the network card IP`
`00:32.19`	`ryanakca`	`ah, kk`
`00:32.21`	`*** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker)`
`00:32.21`	`ryanakca`	`thanks`
`00:39.20`	`*** part/#bzflag redsoxfan90 (n=CP@c-76-19-187-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`00:55.00`	`TD-Linux`	`if I want to run a local private server with global registration, what is the bare minimum I need? -public "TEST" -advertise NOBODY ?`
`01:01.30`	`Constitution`	`~seen a_meteorite`
`01:02.02`	`ibot`	`a_meteorite <n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 22h 11m 28s ago, saying: 'does it happen to everyone else?'.`
`01:04.54`	`Constitution`	`is there a reasonably good formula for per-player bandwidth usage for bzflag servers?`
`01:05.39`	`Constitution`	`I see 5kb/sec/player here: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2915&start=0, but I've also heard that that wasn't a good formula.`
`01:32.13`	`ryanakca`	`hmm... how do I set up bzflag in a chroot on ubuntu/debian?`
`01:33.14`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`01:33.15`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`01:33.21`	`blast007`	`Constitution: yeah, it's not, as it's really exponential`
`01:33.24`	`Constitution`	`http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFS_in_a_chroot_jail`
`01:33.46`	`blast007`	`Constitution: if you have 3 players, each player will receive player updates for the other 2 players`
`01:33.47`	`Constitution`	`blast007: hm, I see`
`01:33.47`	`ryanakca`	`Constitution: nevermind, I got it to work`
`01:33.56`	`Constitution`	`right`
`01:33.57`	`blast007`	`and if you have 30 players, each player will receive updates for the other 29 players`
`01:33.59`	`ryanakca`	`or no`
`01:34.14`	`ryanakca`	`* About to connect() to my.BZFlag.org port 80`
`01:34.14`	`ryanakca`	`* Connection time-out`
`01:34.14`	`ryanakca`	`* Closing connection #0`
`01:34.14`	`ryanakca`	`File transfer terminated with error from libcurl 28 : Connection time-out`
`01:34.32`	`Constitution`	`blast007: even if it's exponential, is there some kind of formula to determine it?`
`01:34.44`	`blast007`	`not really`
`01:34.54`	`blast007`	`it's all relative to your settings`
`01:34.59`	`Constitution`	`linear, quadratic, power, or exponential function? :-D`
`01:35.02`	`Constitution`	`hm`
`01:35.04`	`donny_baker`	`there are lots of variables...`
`01:35.14`	`blast007`	`shot count, tank speed, etc`
`01:35.21`	`Constitution`	`gotcha`
`01:35.25`	`blast007`	`how fast/often people change directions`
`01:36.42`	`Constitution`	`I'd just like to have a fairly specific idea of what the AVERAGE bandwidth usage is for a typical 3-5 shot, primarily default setting server`
`01:37.07`	`Constitution`	`might have to just run the tests, I guess`
`01:38.16`	`TD-Linux`	`ryanakca: I'm having that same issue, but I thought I did something wrong`
`01:41.00`	`ryanakca`	`TD-Linux: it disappeared`
`01:41.18`	`ryanakca`	`Constitution: well, I'm trying to see how many players before my server dies...`
`01:41.26`	`Constitution`	`ok`
`01:41.31`	`ryanakca`	`anybody feel like helping me test? bzflag.ryanak.ca:5154`
`01:42.34`	`Constitution`	`that's one way to get players, lol`
`01:42.38`	`Constitution`	`"come help me test" :-D`
`01:43.09`	`TD-Linux`	`help me test! google.com:5154`
`01:43.22`	`TD-Linux`	`hmm, google should run bzflag servers >:-D`
`01:44.40`	`*** part/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker)`
`01:45.32`	`tannerld`	`where can I find the packets for player position in the source code?`
`01:51.37`	`JeffM2501`	`tannerld, msgPlayerUpdate`
`01:51.45`	`JeffM2501`	`you want them on the server or the client?`
`01:53.57`	`tannerld`	`uhh`
`01:53.58`	`tannerld`	`client`
`01:54.08`	`JeffM2501`	`pack or unpack?`
`01:54.30`	`tannerld`	`unpack`
`01:54.56`	`JeffM2501`	`playing`
`01:55.02`	`JeffM2501`	`.cxx`
`01:55.08`	`JeffM2501`	`what are you trying to do?`
`01:55.24`	`tannerld`	`idk quite yet`
`01:55.30`	`tannerld`	`thanks`
`01:58.41`	`ryanakca`	`Constitution: well, 7 players, no noticable lag, plain HighSpeed internet connection... cable`
`01:58.41`	`blast007`	`jitter was bad though`
`01:58.42`	`blast007`	`20-40ms`
`01:58.42`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`01:58.42`	`Constitution`	`Thanks. I've done cable connections... I was thinking more along the lines of ~100 players on 5-10 servers.`
`01:59.58`	`Constitution`	`co-op kind of thing`
`02:04.32`	`*** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker)`
`02:09.52`	`*** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001)`
`02:11.25`	`*** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
`02:25.20`	`*** join/#bzflag eTangenT (n=tangent@71-211-200-166.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`02:26.09`	`*** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol)`
`02:26.42`	`eTangenT`	`yo guys`
`02:27.11`	`Constitution`	`hey`
`02:28.57`	`eTangenT`	`so I am officially getting a Mac soon`
`02:29.04`	`a_meteorite`	`mbp?`
`02:30.33`	`eTangenT`	`no, just mb`
`02:30.56`	`Constitution`	`cool`
`02:32.04`	`ryanakca`	`how do you reset the server password ?`
`02:32.13`	`ryanakca`	`(without touching config file? I'm admin...)`
`02:32.18`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't`
`02:32.22`	`ryanakca`	`darn`
`02:33.29`	`JeffM2501`	`eTangenT, my condolences`
`02:33.58`	`Constitution`	`JeffM2501: nasty :-P`
`02:34.16`	`JeffM2501`	`Constitution, intel onboard video`
`02:34.26`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, ANYTHING is better than what I have now`
`02:34.31`	`Constitution`	`yeah, true`
`02:34.32`	`eTangenT`	`ATI Mobility Radeon 9000`
`02:34.39`	`eTangenT`	`overheats nonstop`
`02:34.41`	`JeffM2501`	`no, that is better then that intel`
`02:34.50`	`eTangenT`	`no, it isn't`
`02:34.56`	`eTangenT`	`because after a while it drops to 2fps`
`02:34.58`	`JeffM2501`	`at least it's dedicated ram/GPU`
`02:34.59`	`Constitution`	`lol`
`02:35.29`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, possibly so`
`02:35.39`	`eTangenT`	`but this computer's a Dell Inspiron (600m)`
`02:35.44`	`eTangenT`	`so as I was saying`
`02:35.47`	`eTangenT`	`ANYTHING is better`
`02:35.53`	`eTangenT`	`as long as it runs BZFlag fine, I'm happy`
`02:35.57`	`JeffM2501`	`how much it gonna cost ya to get a mac? :)`
`02:35.58`	`eTangenT`	`and apparently it does`
`02:36.04`	`eTangenT`	`$1200`
`02:36.12`	`JeffM2501`	`for a 13inch display`
`02:36.18`	`JeffM2501`	`and intel onboard crapics`
`02:36.56`	`Constitution`	`but it's a mac :-)`
`02:37.11`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah....`
`02:37.27`	`JeffM2501`	`how much ram?`
`02:37.40`	`eTangenT`	`1GB`
`02:39.15`	`blast007`	`eTangenT: the ATI 9200 in my mac mini beats my intel 855 laptop by 3 to 4 times the FPS :P`
`02:39.25`	`blast007`	`and with better visual quality`
`02:39.39`	`blast007`	`none of that "make the textures look like crap" stuff the Intel's do`
`02:39.53`	`JeffM2501`	`intel's drivers suck`
`02:39.55`	`JeffM2501`	`and suck hard`
`02:40.11`	`JeffM2501`	`the pro with the ATI card is a better machine by far`
`02:40.33`	`blast007`	`I have better luck with the 915 chipset, but still not real good`
`02:40.44`	`JeffM2501`	`but hey, if you want to spend 300$ on a internal camera`
`02:40.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it's your cash :)`
`02:41.04`	`Constitution`	`lol`
`02:41.08`	`Epyon`	`lol, managed to keep at 10 points on hepcat for a couple of minutes... my record ^_^`
`02:41.15`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`02:42.15`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, I for sure am not getting another Dell`
`02:42.20`	`eTangenT`	`TERRIBLE experience with this one`
`02:42.25`	`eTangenT`	`Tech support doesn't know squat`
`02:43.05`	`JeffM2501`	`dell is not the only company that makes comptuers ;)`
`02:43.10`	`eTangenT`	`of course`
`02:43.16`	`eTangenT`	`Gateway isn't good either`
`02:43.23`	`eTangenT`	`have a friend who had a bad time with them`
`02:43.27`	`JeffM2501`	`works fine`
`02:43.28`	`eTangenT`	`ended up shipping his computer back`
`02:43.45`	`JeffM2501`	`a configed HP for that price gets you a lot more, hardware wise`
`02:43.52`	`blast007`	`eTangenT: that's because he kept putting his coffee mug in the holder`
`02:44.08`	`JeffM2501`	`14 inch, 2 gig core 2, 2 gigs of ram, dvd burner, 120 gig drive.`
`02:44.19`	`JeffM2501`	`and a real video card`
`02:44.26`	`JeffM2501`	`geforce go 7200`
`02:44.37`	`JeffM2501`	`oh, and an integrated webcam ;)`
`02:44.39`	`blast007`	`ooooo shiny`
`02:44.44`	`eTangenT`	`bah`
`02:44.48`	`eTangenT`	`I have no uyse for integrated cam`
`02:44.54`	`eTangenT`	`I have an external that does fine`
`02:44.59`	`JeffM2501`	`ok, then take off 25#`
`02:45.02`	`JeffM2501`	`29$`
`02:45.06`	`JeffM2501`	`do THAT on a mac ;)`
`02:45.06`	`eTangenT`	`I am also considering Lenovo or Sager`
`02:45.16`	`JeffM2501`	`never buy a sager`
`02:45.20`	`JeffM2501`	`check The HPs`
`02:45.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I was going to get one till I found this gateway`
`02:45.35`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, I generall make a habit of avoiding HP`
`02:45.37`	`JeffM2501`	`lenvo was highly rated`
`02:45.41`	`JeffM2501`	`the HPs were nice`
`02:45.45`	`JeffM2501`	`I was able to test one`
`02:45.48`	`JeffM2501`	`2 actualy`
`02:45.51`	`blast007`	`you pay more for an IBM though...`
`02:45.52`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, not the HP my parents bought 3:14D`
`02:45.53`	`JeffM2501`	`they were solid`
`02:46.03`	`JeffM2501`	`it's your cash`
`02:46.08`	`eTangenT`	`CD-R drive died after 6 months, and the case was built in such a way that I couldn't fit a replacement we bought in`
`02:46.10`	`eTangenT`	`:-\`
`02:46.16`	`JeffM2501`	`there are bound to be failures in ALL makes`
`02:46.18`	`JeffM2501`	`even apples`
`02:46.18`	`eTangenT`	`they now have a Dell`
`02:46.24`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, true.`
`02:46.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not a fan of Dell's current pricing or lineup`
`02:46.37`	`JeffM2501`	`the new HP cases are quite nice`
`02:46.40`	`eTangenT`	`I'm just not a fan of Dell`
`02:46.59`	`JeffM2501`	`my only gripe on this gateway is it runs warm`
`02:47.00`	`eTangenT`	`everybody says, "Oh, Alienwares are so good!"`
`02:47.04`	`JeffM2501`	`but I can't complain for the price`
`02:47.06`	`JeffM2501`	`don't get one`
`02:47.07`	`JeffM2501`	`they suck`
`02:47.11`	`eTangenT`	`another friend of mine has an Aurora notebook`
`02:47.15`	`eTangenT`	`NO battery life`
`02:47.17`	`ryanakca`	`I run 'sudo chroot /chroot/bzflag/ /bin/bzfs -world /ctf.bzw -conf /etc/bzfs.conf &'... and I get this 'ERROR: A world was not specified'... any ideas?`
`02:47.19`	`blast007`	`duh?`
`02:47.23`	`blast007`	`it's a gaming laptop`
`02:47.31`	`blast007`	`it's not supposed to have battery life`
`02:47.33`	`eTangenT`	`blast007, of course`
`02:47.37`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah alienwares are portalble PCS`
`02:47.40`	`JeffM2501`	`not laptops`
`02:47.41`	`blast007`	`it's supposed to be plugged in at a LAN party`
`02:47.45`	`JeffM2501`	`they are not make for batery`
`02:47.51`	`eTangenT`	`but I kinda need the ability to do stuff on the road on occasion`
`02:48.01`	`eTangenT`	`I guess if you config things right, you can use it on the go`
`02:48.04`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`02:48.15`	`eTangenT`	`but ask alienware about it and they say ":P sux"`
`02:48.30`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah they arn't made for "work" laptops`
`02:48.43`	`JeffM2501`	`my dad's HP gets him usualy 3-4 hours`
`02:48.49`	`JeffM2501`	`in max batery mode`
`02:49.01`	`JeffM2501`	`more if there is no disk useage`
`02:49.09`	`eTangenT`	`my dell got about 5.5 hours`
`02:49.11`	`JeffM2501`	`HP also offers double size bateries`
`02:49.15`	`JeffM2501`	`for larger runs`
`02:49.21`	`eTangenT`	`but then various parts started going berzerk on me`
`02:49.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Gracey (n=GF@60-240-216-210.tpgi.com.au)`
`02:49.33`	`eTangenT`	`cleaning dust out helped some things, but not everything`
`02:49.35`	`eTangenT`	`but yeah`
`02:49.45`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, you think a Lenovo ThinkPad would be a good choice?`
`02:50.01`	`JeffM2501`	`they arn't cheap, but they are reliable if you tend to beat your machine up a lot`
`02:50.07`	`blast007`	`they're quality machines`
`02:50.10`	`blast007`	`I've owned two`
`02:50.15`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't think I was impressed with there video choices`
`02:50.19`	`JeffM2501`	`but they are very well rated`
`02:50.33`	`eTangenT`	`their video cards aren't GREAT`
`02:50.34`	`blast007`	`the other one would hav ebeen working yet if it hadn't had those experiences with .... gravity`
`02:50.41`	`eTangenT`	`but you can get non-intel gfx`
`02:50.50`	`ryanakca`	`system76 :)`
`02:50.52`	`blast007`	`they have ATI ones`
`02:51.04`	`blast007`	`I got a low end one for $800`
`02:51.04`	`ryanakca`	`http://www.system76.com/`
`02:51.11`	`eTangenT`	`blast, aren't ThinkPads supposed to be safe from experiences with gravity?`
`02:51.16`	`eTangenT`	`3:14P`
`02:51.32`	`JeffM2501`	`the track nipple bugs me`
`02:51.48`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: that's the only laptops I'll buy`
`02:51.54`	`blast007`	`if it has a touchpad, I won't get it`
`02:52.07`	`blast007`	`I can't play games with a touchpad`
`02:52.09`	`eTangenT`	`blast007, true. Touchpads bother me.`
`02:52.16`	`eTangenT`	`Mine is WAY too sensitive.`
`02:52.16`	`blast007`	`plus I always bump them`
`02:52.18`	`eTangenT`	`I turned it off.`
`02:52.28`	`eTangenT`	`use an external mouse`
`02:52.49`	`blast007`	`I'm typing, and suddenly I'm typing several paragraphs down because the touchpad surface detected my hand and clicked`
`02:53.13`	`eTangenT`	`blast007, I get that even when I'm not NEAR the touchpad`
`02:53.18`	`blast007`	`heh`
`02:53.48`	`JeffM2501`	`blast007, I looked at them, they were just too much for me`
`02:53.58`	`JeffM2501`	`the deal I got on this gateway was too good to pass up`
`02:54.04`	`JeffM2501`	`699 :)`
`02:54.10`	`JeffM2501`	`then 119 for the extra ram`
`02:54.16`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: meh, even still, touchpads prevent me from buying laptops :P`
`02:54.38`	`JeffM2501`	`I use a mouse too mostly`
`02:54.45`	`JeffM2501`	`I just didn't like the nipple in the keys`
`02:54.48`	`eTangenT`	`yo Gracey`
`02:54.49`	`JeffM2501`	`cus I do use the mouse keys`
`02:55.03`	`JeffM2501`	`and missing part of the G and H bugged me`
`02:55.07`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, whatcha got against nipples? 3:14P`
`02:55.16`	`JeffM2501`	`tracknipples`
`02:55.17`	`blast007`	`I'm just used to it I guess :)`
`02:55.31`	`blast007`	`all 4 of the laptops in this room have it`
`02:55.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org)`
`02:55.52`	`blast007`	`though one of them I shoved a pencil eraser onto after it wore out...`
`02:55.56`	`JeffM2501`	`if you can work it great :)`
`02:55.57`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`02:55.58`	`blast007`	`still works great`
`02:56.04`	`JeffM2501`	`this gateway seems nice`
`02:56.07`	`JeffM2501`	`very fast`
`02:56.33`	`JeffM2501`	`the ATI 1150 is faster then the 6150 onboard`
`02:56.38`	`JeffM2501`	`on my desktop`
`02:56.43`	`blast007`	`a 1.6 Pentium M is enough for me`
`02:56.55`	`JeffM2501`	`I had to have dual cores :)`
`02:57.00`	`blast007`	`I mainly use the lappy for web development`
`02:57.06`	`blast007`	`well right, I have the C2D desktop too`
`02:57.07`	`eTangenT`	`blast007, what model of THinkPad do you use?`
`02:57.12`	`blast007`	`eTangenT: R50e`
`02:57.19`	`blast007`	`want the exact model?`
`02:57.22`	`JeffM2501`	`when the prices drop I'm gonna try and replace this with a turion TL-56 or 60`
`02:57.53`	`blast007`	`eTangenT: 1842-SVU`
`02:58.02`	`eTangenT`	`well, now they're up to R60`
`02:58.06`	`blast007`	`yup`
`02:58.15`	`eTangenT`	`I don't see the R50 here, but similar machines, I guess`
`02:58.22`	`blast007`	`mine still says "IBM Thinkpad" on it`
`02:58.30`	`blast007`	`not sure about the 6x series`
`02:59.09`	`eTangenT`	`hm`
`02:59.20`	`eTangenT`	`well, all R60s have the roll cage and shock-mounted HDD`
`02:59.21`	`blast007`	`the IBMs usually seem to do good with linux too, or so I've heard`
`02:59.27`	`blast007`	`I haven't tried it myself`
`03:00.19`	`eTangenT`	`IBM machines generally are known to be good with Linux, correct?`
`03:00.25`	`eTangenT`	`Why would Lenovo be different?`
`03:00.34`	`blast007`	`didn't say it would be`
`03:00.36`	`JeffM2501`	`cus they are a difrent copany`
`03:00.45`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, IBM bought them.`
`03:00.48`	`eTangenT`	`Same company.`
`03:00.59`	`eTangenT`	`Well, more or less.`
`03:01.06`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC IBM SOLD the laptop copmany TO levno`
`03:01.33`	`eTangenT`	`they own Lenovo`
`03:01.39`	`eTangenT`	`but Lenovo does the notebooks`
`03:02.03`	`JeffM2501`	`they purchased china's LARGEST PC manufacturer?`
`03:02.18`	`blast007`	`http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ThinkWiki`
`03:02.26`	`eTangenT`	`hm, should I get the Mobility Radeon x1300, 64MB, or the Mobility Radeon x1400, 128MB?`
`03:02.40`	`JeffM2501`	`biger is better`
`03:03.12`	`eTangenT`	`JeffM2501, of course, but I don't play much other than BZ`
`03:03.33`	`JeffM2501`	`bigger means you have to wait longer to replace it`
`03:04.01`	`blast007`	`news headline "IBM Sells PC Business to Chinese Firm in $1.75 Billion Deal"`
`03:04.32`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`03:04.33`	`blast007`	`http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A45273-2004Dec7`
`03:04.41`	`JeffM2501`	`they got back 19% stock`
`03:04.53`	`JeffM2501`	`but they in no way OWN lenovo`
`03:05.01`	`eTangenT`	`hm`
`03:05.02`	`eTangenT`	`yeah`
`03:05.02`	`JeffM2501`	`lenovo purchesed the line`
`03:05.05`	`eTangenT`	`I see`
`03:05.07`	`JeffM2501`	`lock stock and barrel`
`03:05.15`	`JeffM2501`	`so they are made by a difrent company, seperate from IBM`
`03:05.21`	`eTangenT`	`k`
`03:05.25`	`eTangenT`	`so now we've settled that`
`03:05.27`	`eTangenT`	`anyways`
`03:05.33`	`JeffM2501`	`they want out of the PC market :)`
`03:05.48`	`eTangenT`	`3:14D`
`03:05.51`	`JeffM2501`	`for the hardware, basicly ask yourself how long you want the computer`
`03:06.04`	`eTangenT`	`so yeah, I have a compatible two sticks of ram, 256MB and 1GB`
`03:06.08`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not like BZ is going have it's system requirements LOWERD`
`03:06.22`	`eTangenT`	`so I'll just get the machine with 1GB ram, add my stuff later`
`03:06.23`	`JeffM2501`	`so better graphics holds you for longer`
`03:06.29`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what I did`
`03:06.40`	`JeffM2501`	`2 gigs of PC5300 sodims were 119$`
`03:07.17`	`menotume`	`installation costs extra`
`03:07.25`	`JeffM2501`	`it's CAKE`
`03:07.28`	`menotume`	`:)`
`03:07.37`	`blast007`	`mmmm, cake`
`03:07.39`	`eTangenT`	`menotume, if you can't figure out how to install RAM`
`03:07.44`	`eTangenT`	`you should be shot`
`03:07.44`	`menotume`	`lol`
`03:08.00`	`blast007`	`heck, IBM sent me the free 512MB RAM upgrade seperate`
`03:09.44`	`eTangenT`	`well`
`03:09.53`	`eTangenT`	`the specs on this machine are MUCH better than the Macbook`
`03:10.31`	`blast007`	`Apple. Think Different. Pay More.`
`03:10.45`	`*** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@fedora/codergeek42)`
`03:11.17`	`JeffM2501`	`the reason's to get a mac are not for value in hardware`
`03:11.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you get one cus you want to use OSX`
`03:11.28`	`JeffM2501`	`and don't want to steal it`
`03:11.30`	`JeffM2501`	`that's IT`
`03:11.34`	`eTangenT`	`128MB gfx, 1GB ram (plus another 1.25 I already have I can use), 120GB 5400RPM hdd, 15" display, touchnipple (rawfl), DVD writer, 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo, XP Home (I have a copy of XP Pro already... why pay more?), and of course a headset 3:14)`
`03:11.53`	`Constitution`	`eTangenT, don't let them talk you out of it :-)`
`03:11.59`	`eTangenT`	`wanted the headset for a while... may as well get that too`
`03:12.07`	`eTangenT`	`Constitution, I've been looking at Lenovo already 3:14P`
`03:12.11`	`eTangenT`	`just as long as the mac`
`03:12.24`	`eTangenT`	`the reason it's easier to look into macs is because there's an Apple store down the hill`
`03:12.29`	`Constitution`	`:-)`
`03:12.49`	`blast007`	`eTangenT: down the hill is good, so you can roll it back`
`03:12.51`	`JeffM2501`	`linux is easier to install on that too`
`03:13.14`	`JeffM2501`	`if you are going to use nix, there is 0 point in getting a mac`
`03:13.44`	`blast007`	`yeah, at that point it's just an overpriced PC in a white case`
`03:14.13`	`Constitution`	`but a pretty white case, at that :-)`
`03:14.17`	`blast007`	`heh`
`03:14.22`	`JeffM2501`	`with a small display`
`03:14.41`	`JeffM2501`	`apple freaks will buy poop if it's in a white box`
`03:15.02`	`blast007`	`I have a cheap laptop, so that if I scratch the case, I don't have to call my insurance agent to file a claim ;)`
`03:15.03`	`Constitution`	`yeah Apple has a cult-like following`
`03:20.33`	`eTangenT`	`hey blast007, good idea or bad? ... dualbooting WinXP Pro and OpenSuSE on a new laptop... and disabling all networking in XP`
`03:22.12`	`a_meteorite`	`you're gonna get a mac only then to put XP/Linux on it?`
`03:22.20`	`a_meteorite`	`... :\`
`03:22.44`	`JeffM2501`	`he's looking at other systems a_meteorite read all the words before you coment ;)`
`03:22.52`	`a_meteorite`	`oh`
`03:23.01`	`eTangenT`	`a_meteorite, if it was a mac, I'd probably try triple booting`
`03:23.05`	`a_meteorite`	`:P`
`03:23.06`	`eTangenT`	`but something smells complicated there`
`03:23.47`	`a_meteorite`	`it's possible.. but probably not easy`
`03:28.01`	`eTangenT`	`oh yeah`
`03:28.05`	`eTangenT`	`about this Lenovo setup`
`03:28.13`	`eTangenT`	`still $250 less than the macbook I'd be getting`
`03:29.04`	`JeffM2501`	`with way betterness :)`
`03:30.20`	`eTangenT`	`and 2" more screen`
`03:30.25`	`eTangenT`	`of course, the Apple is widescreen`
`03:30.32`	`eTangenT`	`but I never quite understood the whole widescreen thing`
`03:30.37`	`eTangenT`	`I'm perfectly happy with my normal screens`
`03:30.57`	`JeffM2501`	`depends what you do`
`03:31.00`	`JeffM2501`	`I like the wideness`
`03:31.05`	`JeffM2501`	`some don't`
`03:31.20`	`JeffM2501`	`lenvo makes wide's too`
`03:31.22`	`eTangenT`	`I find it odd`
`03:31.25`	`eTangenT`	`Yeah, I know they do`
`03:31.31`	`eTangenT`	`but I'm happy with a normal ratio`
`03:31.51`	`JeffM2501`	`I like it cus it gives me more room to put a watch window in VC off to the right`
`03:31.55`	`eTangenT`	`anyways, apparently the optical drives are swappable`
`03:31.59`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`03:32.03`	`eTangenT`	`I like that`
`03:32.04`	`JeffM2501`	`that's comon on some`
`03:32.07`	`eTangenT`	`the macbook doesn't have that`
`03:32.12`	`eTangenT`	`my Inspiron has it, too`
`03:32.18`	`JeffM2501`	`macbook has little options for stuff like that`
`03:32.29`	`JeffM2501`	`ram and HD is all you'll ever swap`
`03:32.39`	`JeffM2501`	`all mac's except 1 are disposable`
`03:32.46`	`eTangenT`	`sure, I haven't NEEDED it yet, but you can buy other HDs and stuff for those, I hear`
`03:34.03`	`*** join/#bzflag The_Vaxorcist (n=phillip@dial-209-148-113-69.sonic.net)`
`03:37.17`	`*** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=TheRedBa@fl-71-49-6-228.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)`
`03:37.38`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban)`
`03:38.19`	`Constitution`	`check out my desk at work from the other day: http://bzflag.thecompleteweb.net/workdesk.jpg`
`03:38.59`	`codergeek42`	`so many windows boxen :(`
`03:39.03`	`*** join/#bzflag daniel_jackson (n=bsanford@cpe-66-74-192-236.san.res.rr.com)`
`03:39.04`	`a_meteorite`	`wow`
`03:39.10`	`tannerld`	`wow`
`03:39.35`	`purple_cow`	`why so many?`
`03:39.37`	`a_meteorite`	`Constitution: and the million dollar question is, do you use them?`
`03:39.42`	`TheRedBaron`	`reminds me of my desk`
`03:40.10`	`daniel_jackson`	`hello everyone, unfortunately I have to report, about an admin taking his anger out on a play, that player being me`
`03:40.19`	`Constitution`	`a_meteorite: only my macbook ;-)`
`03:40.36`	`a_meteorite`	`heh`
`03:40.38`	`daniel_jackson`	`That admin would be halo3`
`03:40.41`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`Constitution: wow`
`03:40.50`	`Constitution`	`I'm kidding, of course.`
`03:40.55`	`a_meteorite`	`daniel_jackson: that's not surprising..`
`03:41.02`	`daniel_jackson`	`Tonight I logged into his new tunnels map`
`03:42.09`	`daniel_jackson`	`I died a little, then I heard the sound when a flag is stolen, then I looked at the team numbers 10vs4`
`03:42.13`	`daniel_jackson`	`uneven`
`03:42.59`	`daniel_jackson`	`I asked halo about a fairctf plugin, his response "shut the fuck up if you don't like it leave"!`
`03:43.10`	`Gracey`	`yea he has a short temper`
`03:43.16`	`a_meteorite`	`...`
`03:43.18`	`daniel_jackson`	`that wasn't the end of it`
`03:43.29`	`a_meteorite`	`you gotta BLANK things out in #bzflag`
`03:43.43`	`Gracey`	`yes DJ =P`
`03:43.45`	`daniel_jackson`	`no it needs to be seen`
`03:43.46`	`eTangenT`	`yeah daniel, meteorite's not accustomed to these words`
`03:43.53`	`eTangenT`	`3:14P`
`03:43.54`	`eTangenT`	`sorry met`
`03:43.55`	`a_meteorite`	`no, it's against channel rules`
`03:43.56`	`Gracey`	`lol`
`03:43.56`	`eTangenT`	`had to say it`
`03:44.03`	`eTangenT`	`Well, that too.`
`03:44.12`	`daniel_jackson`	`then my ban message read this:`
`03:44.29`	`JeffM2501`	`daniel_jackson, on who's server? his server?`
`03:44.39`	`Gracey`	`yes`
`03:44.41`	`Gracey`	`His new server`
`03:44.48`	`JeffM2501`	`he can do what he wants on his server, he's the owner`
`03:44.53`	`daniel_jackson`	`"5 hour ban shut the fuck up I've been crap all night"`
`03:44.55`	`a_meteorite`	`as much as we hate him, it's not like we can do anything`
`03:45.01`	`JeffM2501`	`daniel_jackson, language here`
`03:45.03`	`JeffM2501`	`please`
`03:45.05`	`eTangenT`	`a_meteorite, BOYCOTT!`
`03:45.06`	`daniel_jackson`	`no tedius is the server owner`
`03:45.10`	`a_meteorite`	`well, yeah.. do that`
`03:45.17`	`JeffM2501`	`then talk to the owner`
`03:45.25`	`JeffM2501`	`each server sets tehre own rules`
`03:45.30`	`Gracey`	`Tedius is just running it isn't he?`
`03:45.37`	`JeffM2501`	`I could ban you for not being named BOB if I wanted`
`03:45.43`	`JeffM2501`	`Gracey, that makes him the owner`
`03:45.49`	`Gracey`	`ok ok`
`03:45.53`	`daniel_jackson`	`everyone needs to know that he probably doesn't have the best admin qualities`
`03:45.54`	`JeffM2501`	`the person that owns the hardware and the connections owns the server`
`03:46.03`	`JeffM2501`	`daniel_jackson, he's like 13`
`03:46.08`	`JeffM2501`	`that's a known issue`
`03:46.15`	`a_meteorite`	`I'm sure he's younger than that :)`
`03:46.20`	`JeffM2501`	`I mean just look at his NAME`
`03:46.24`	`Gracey`	`lol`
`03:46.36`	`tannerld`	`lol`
`03:46.38`	`daniel_jackson`	`I understand that, and I also understand that your have "custumers" you need to keep happy`
`03:46.38`	`JeffM2501`	`but really coming here does you no good`
`03:46.49`	`JeffM2501`	`daniel_jackson, you paid for access to the server?`
`03:47.06`	`daniel_jackson`	`not literally`
`03:47.08`	`eTangenT`	`"clients" would be the better word, I guess`
`03:47.12`	`JeffM2501`	`not even that`
`03:47.22`	`a_meteorite`	`"players" is what they really are`
`03:47.25`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`03:47.31`	`JeffM2501`	`they are nice enough to let you in`
`03:47.38`	`JeffM2501`	`it's there machine`
`03:47.41`	`JeffM2501`	`you have no rights`
`03:47.44`	`daniel_jackson`	`as soon as you tick off your players, then your map/server is dead`
`03:47.50`	`JeffM2501`	`that is his choice`
`03:47.51`	`a_meteorite`	`that's his own problem`
`03:47.53`	`JeffM2501`	`if that's what he wants to do`
`03:48.01`	`daniel_jackson`	`I guess`
`03:48.01`	`JeffM2501`	`you can't apply your morals to others`
`03:48.07`	`JeffM2501`	`there is no guess, it's how it is`
`03:48.16`	`JeffM2501`	`now there is common sense`
`03:48.18`	`JeffM2501`	`of course`
`03:48.22`	`Gracey`	`as long as he does it on his servers`
`03:48.29`	`JeffM2501`	`but you can't expect anyone else to do anything about it`
`03:48.32`	`JeffM2501`	`talk to the owner`
`03:48.32`	`daniel_jackson`	`well I guess its like what they say common sense isn't so commoon`
`03:48.41`	`daniel_jackson`	`I will`
`03:48.50`	`JeffM2501`	`if the owner dosn't agree they can do what they choose, if they do, just don't play there`
`03:48.53`	`eTangenT`	`yeah, I'd talk to Tedius`
`03:48.55`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not like there arn't more servers :)`
`03:49.27`	`JeffM2501`	`if we wanted to impose a set of behavors and rules on servers, we'd not let just anyone run one`
`03:49.38`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd have to register for it ;)`
`03:50.45`	`daniel_jackson`	`my main concern is that we're encouraging younger player to start servers, without taking into consideration how to relate with players`
`03:51.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not our place to say who can or can not run them`
`03:51.07`	`a_meteorite`	`it's open-source, anyone can start a server as long as they don't abuse services`
`03:51.22`	`JeffM2501`	`and how are we "encouraging" them?`
`03:51.30`	`daniel_jackson`	`thats not what I was trying to sasy`
`03:51.31`	`JeffM2501`	`by providing software and docs?`
`03:51.33`	`daniel_jackson`	`say`
`03:51.36`	`JeffM2501`	`but it's what you mean`
`03:51.59`	`JeffM2501`	`kids have no social graces usualy, the only way they can get them is to learn`
`03:52.03`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a sad truth of life`
`03:52.04`	`daniel_jackson`	`put something on the wiki about good admin qualities`
`03:52.10`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`+`
`03:52.17`	`a_meteorite`	`anyone can define "good admin qualities" to their liking`
`03:52.23`	`JeffM2501`	`have you read the how to start a server thread?`
`03:52.31`	`a_meteorite`	`some may define it as "ban on sight anyone you hate"`
`03:52.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it says why you should and should not run a server`
`03:53.09`	`daniel_jackson`	`I'm sorry, to disagree, but open any business book and it will outline it for you profit or no profit`
`03:53.20`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't profit`
`03:53.21`	`JeffM2501`	`at all`
`03:53.25`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag is a money loss for all`
`03:53.34`	`JeffM2501`	`server owners loose moeny`
`03:53.41`	`JeffM2501`	`no mater what happens`
`03:53.48`	`daniel_jackson`	`I know that`
`03:53.49`	`JeffM2501`	`they may loose LESS moeny with no players`
`03:53.58`	`JeffM2501`	`so that analogy will not hold`
`03:54.14`	`JeffM2501`	`it's more of a comunity "Play nice with the other kids or they will kick your butt"`
`03:54.27`	`JeffM2501`	`or crap in = crap out`
`03:54.37`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`what about profit in the "fame, power, etc" sense?`
`03:54.59`	`JeffM2501`	`that is a dilusion people attach on to it justify loosing money`
`03:55.07`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a silly game, there is no real fame`
`03:55.19`	`JeffM2501`	`if you want to be popular on the playgorund, be nice, or cool`
`03:55.26`	`daniel_jackson`	`I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about admin qualities that make a player want to revisit a server/map other than the design of the map`
`03:55.37`	`daniel_jackson`	`I know that`
`03:55.45`	`JeffM2501`	`sure, if that is there goal`
`03:55.48`	`JeffM2501`	`that may not be there goal`
`03:56.01`	`JeffM2501`	`Halo3's real goal is to ban people`
`03:56.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it make him feel adult`
`03:56.09`	`daniel_jackson`	`yeah, sometimes its not obvious`
`03:56.12`	`JeffM2501`	`it's as simple as that`
`03:56.19`	`JeffM2501`	`so all your anologies fall down for him`
`03:56.34`	`JeffM2501`	`and nothing we say or do will prevent people like him from starting servers`
`03:56.35`	`codergeek42`	`JeffM2501: and yet it only proves how much of a child he is.`
`03:56.40`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`03:56.41`	`JeffM2501`	`so`
`03:56.43`	`codergeek42`	`"Fate it seems, is not without a sense of irony."`
`03:56.44`	`JeffM2501`	`he dosn't know or care`
`03:56.49`	`JeffM2501`	`he's STILL gonna do it`
`03:57.17`	`JeffM2501`	`he's not thinking logicaly`
`03:57.23`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`sheesh`
`03:57.24`	`JeffM2501`	`he has no experience with real people`
`03:57.30`	`JeffM2501`	`to him, your just a name with text`
`03:57.30`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`the world isn't fair :)`
`03:57.31`	`daniel_jackson`	`I agree!`
`03:57.38`	`codergeek42`	`He's a nice example of the GIFT :P`
`03:57.52`	`JeffM2501`	`we could write a book on how to be the most popluar server in the world, he wont' read it`
`03:58.03`	`JeffM2501`	`you ether "get" how to be nice, or you don't`
`03:58.19`	`daniel_jackson`	`I'd say he's having ID-10T error`
`03:58.26`	`daniel_jackson`	`lol`
`03:58.44`	`JeffM2501`	`you can make all the insults and lame jokes to make yourself feel better you want, dosn't change that he's gonna keep doing it`
`03:58.47`	`JeffM2501`	`or people like him`
`03:59.05`	`daniel_jackson`	`true`
`03:59.12`	`JeffM2501`	`the only action that can be taken is to apply a ruleset to hosting publicly, and that restricts the game`
`03:59.18`	`JeffM2501`	`and tha'ts a big change`
`03:59.24`	`JeffM2501`	`personaly I don't see it as a bad thing`
`03:59.28`	`Gracey`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:59.29`	`JeffM2501`	`but that's a HUGE change`
`03:59.32`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah just don't play there`
`03:59.51`	`JeffM2501`	`he'll get bored, then mad, then blow up in the fourms, then get banned`
`03:59.57`	`JeffM2501`	`seen that before`
`04:00.00`	`Gracey`	`lol`
`04:00.01`	`codergeek42`	`But even with such a ruleset, there'd be no real way to keep it enforced.`
`04:00.03`	`tannerld`	`heh`
`04:00.51`	`codergeek42`	`It'd still be an honor system; and he'd still be undeserving of adminship...`
`04:00.51`	`JeffM2501`	`not to poke a steriotype too much but I'd not be suprised if he's homeschooled by parents who don't parrent.`
`04:00.51`	`*** part/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
`04:00.51`	`daniel_jackson`	`I guess as much as I'm apaulled by his immaturity, I don't want to see that be his downfall`
`04:00.51`	`JeffM2501`	`codergeek42, sure there is, don't allow local admins`
`04:01.01`	`JeffM2501`	`daniel_jackson, it will be, there is no way around it that anyone other then himself can change`
`04:01.03`	`codergeek42`	`JeffM2501: Then what about lo-low-volume servers that have only the local admin?`
`04:01.09`	`codergeek42`	`*low-volume`
`04:01.12`	`JeffM2501`	`codergeek42, we don't list them`
`04:01.20`	`codergeek42`	`Oh. That answers my issue then. :) Thanks.`
`04:01.24`	`JeffM2501`	`we say "if you are listed, you are admined by the global admin group"`
`04:01.24`	`daniel_jackson`	`I'm guess I try too much to do the right thing`
`04:01.40`	`JeffM2501`	`you can change the world, you can't change people daniel_jackson`
`04:02.02`	`codergeek42`	`but only by changing people can you change the world`
`04:02.07`	`daniel_jackson`	`very true and meet some snot-heads`
`04:02.12`	`codergeek42`	`OOOH THAT'S A GOOD SIG QUOTE (sorry...)`
`04:02.13`	`JeffM2501`	`no, I can dig a hole`
`04:02.15`	`JeffM2501`	`world changed`
`04:02.18`	`JeffM2501`	`done deal`
`04:02.33`	`JeffM2501`	`people will only change themselves if they want to`
`04:02.47`	`daniel_jackson`	`lol`
`04:03.09`	`JeffM2501`	`most kids his age think they know everything`
`04:03.17`	`JeffM2501`	`he has to get his butt kicked`
`04:03.19`	`JeffM2501`	`we all did`
`04:03.31`	`daniel_jackson`	`true I think he's like 10-15 of age`
`04:03.52`	`JeffM2501`	`he is`
`04:03.59`	`JeffM2501`	`many players are`
`04:04.05`	`Gracey`	`like me`
`04:04.16`	`tannerld`	`and I`
`04:04.24`	`codergeek42`	`I thought similarly when I was younger...`
`04:04.38`	`tannerld`	`I think strange.`
`04:04.46`	`JeffM2501`	`codergeek42, your not old man`
`04:04.48`	`Gracey`	`I dont think =P`
`04:04.49`	`JeffM2501`	`21 is kids age`
`04:04.52`	`a_meteorite`	`"I know everything, bow down to me"`
`04:04.53`	`daniel_jackson`	`ah I miss the old geezers! lol`
`04:05.06`	`a_meteorite`	`that is exactly what halo3 is thinking ;)`
`04:05.13`	`JeffM2501`	`at least you 2 know common curtesy`
`04:05.20`	`daniel_jackson`	`ty`
`04:05.48`	`daniel_jackson`	`grace know, and I think coder knows`
`04:06.06`	`daniel_jackson`	`mets hmm! lol`
`04:06.24`	`daniel_jackson`	`mets he should now`
`04:06.25`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe one day I can get my "prefered" servers system in place`
`04:06.27`	`daniel_jackson`	`know`
`04:06.29`	`JeffM2501`	`that will be nice`
`04:06.29`	`codergeek42`	`daniel_jackson: I try to just be a good person, really. My hope is that others around me do the same.`
`04:06.34`	`daniel_jackson`	`cool`
`04:06.58`	`codergeek42`	`We each have our flaws, sure; but we can't let them detract us from that simple life-long task. :]`
`04:06.59`	`daniel_jackson`	`that why I recruited grace`
`04:07.20`	`daniel_jackson`	`I didn't want her to turn into these other admins`
`04:07.50`	`codergeek42`	`Fwiw, DJ, so far you can grace are some of the nicest admins I've spoken with.`
`04:08.10`	`daniel_jackson`	`ty`
`04:08.14`	`Gracey`	`ty =)`
`04:08.58`	`a_meteorite`	`where do I fit into all this? ;)`
`04:09.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't want the true answer to that`
`04:09.23`	`JeffM2501`	`trust me`
`04:09.30`	`a_meteorite`	`:o`
`04:10.02`	`codergeek42`	`a_meteorite: somewhere in between "awesome" and "pretty dang cool (emphasis on pretty)"?`
`04:10.04`	`a_meteorite`	`you just made me feel a whole lot better`
`04:10.19`	`daniel_jackson`	`well to be honest, you do have areas that you can improve in, I won't say that them in front of everyone`
`04:10.34`	`daniel_jackson`	`but nothing really harmfull`
`04:10.55`	`JeffM2501`	`you haven'tknow him that long ;)`
`04:10.55`	`a_meteorite`	`my personality is open-sourced`
`04:11.13`	`daniel_jackson`	`although I did hear about the big bash between you and mofo`
`04:11.17`	`JeffM2501`	`HAH, that is so far from the truth I' spit milk out my nose`
`04:11.26`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak)`
`04:11.27`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ`
`04:11.36`	`daniel_jackson`	`I know him before I used the name daniel jackson`
`04:11.37`	`a_meteorite`	`my comment or DJ's?`
`04:11.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yours`
`04:12.08`	`a_meteorite`	`I don't mind people sharing what they know about me, thus I just coined my personality as being open-sourced`
`04:12.08`	`daniel_jackson`	`we won't talk about it here`
`04:12.09`	`a_meteorite`	`lame joke`
`04:12.20`	`JeffM2501`	`yes you do`
`04:12.23`	`JeffM2501`	`you FREAK`
`04:12.25`	`JeffM2501`	`when they do`
`04:12.27`	`JeffM2501`	`big time`
`04:12.43`	`daniel_jackson`	`play nice! grace help me! lol`
`04:12.50`	`JeffM2501`	`but realy`
`04:12.52`	`a_meteorite`	`that doesn't change the fact people can talk about me if they want too :P`
`04:12.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I've told you my opinions`
`04:12.59`	`Gracey`	`eek`
`04:13.00`	`JeffM2501`	`and you know them`
`04:13.01`	`codergeek42`	`"The power of Christ compels you! The power of Christ compels you!" hehehe`
`04:13.01`	`a_meteorite`	`I like em`
`04:13.09`	`daniel_jackson`	`lol`
`04:13.13`	`JeffM2501`	`codergeek42, none of that now`
`04:13.16`	`a_meteorite`	`your opinions are brutally honest, which I like`
`04:13.23`	`codergeek42`	`hehe; sorry JeffM2501 :)`
`04:13.28`	`a_meteorite`	`even if it hurts my feelings at the time`
`04:13.49`	`JeffM2501`	`ain't my job to make eveyrone in the world feel warm and fuzzy :P`
`04:14.09`	`a_meteorite`	`that's good`
`04:14.21`	`a_meteorite`	`cause otherwise there would be a conflict of interest, wouldn't there? :)`
`04:14.43`	`daniel_jackson`	`jeff you need girlfriend, it that doesn't work get two! lol`
`04:15.12`	`JeffM2501`	`daniel_jackson, you presume much`
`04:15.26`	`JeffM2501`	`but that is at least fitting to your name`
`04:15.41`	`daniel_jackson`	`I just try to help the world as much as I can`
`04:15.54`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`as we all do`
`04:16.03`	`JeffM2501`	`even if they don't want it, and your assumptions are wrong ;)`
`04:16.20`	`JeffM2501`	`very fitting to the name :)`
`04:16.34`	`JeffM2501`	`die a couple times, and your set :)`
`04:17.18`	`daniel_jackson`	`hey I'm taking management classes right now, and learning about the stuff that my school should be doing but for some reason they aren't`
`04:17.29`	`daniel_jackson`	`lol`
`04:17.55`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`thats probably pretty common`
`04:18.02`	`daniel_jackson`	`oh and hey, I did have brain cancer in real life`
`04:18.23`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`04:18.42`	`JeffM2501`	`halo says he's going to unban you`
`04:18.45`	`daniel_jackson`	`not micheal shanks, me the person using his name`
`04:18.53`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd still go talk to the owner`
`04:18.56`	`JeffM2501`	`they should know`
`04:18.59`	`daniel_jackson`	`I will`
`04:19.08`	`daniel_jackson`	`I agree too`
`04:19.16`	`JeffM2501`	`if he can't controll his temper, he's not going to make it long in the world`
`04:19.28`	`daniel_jackson`	`very true`
`04:19.52`	`JeffM2501`	`cus aperantly you were "cusing him out"`
`04:19.56`	`JeffM2501`	`thats why he banned you`
`04:20.01`	`Gracey`	`lol`
`04:20.33`	`daniel_jackson`	`well I have create a set of mock security procedures in for my net security class, cu then`
`04:20.40`	`JeffM2501`	`this all comes out like right after I give him his posting privs back and he tells me he will be more mature.`
`04:21.08`	`daniel_jackson`	`you should time him`
`04:21.36`	`JeffM2501`	`naw, waste of time`
`04:21.42`	`JeffM2501`	`I've got better things to do tonight`
`04:21.52`	`daniel_jackson`	`lol so do I`
`04:22.09`	`daniel_jackson`	`well ty for your time jeff`
`04:22.19`	`JeffM2501`	`good luck with the ownder`
`04:22.25`	`daniel_jackson`	`thank you`
`04:22.33`	`JeffM2501`	`hopefully they will see there misake in hosting him`
`04:22.59`	`daniel_jackson`	`cu grace, mets, coder, vax, and everyone else! lol`
`04:23.05`	`a_meteorite`	`bye`
`04:23.08`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`bye`
`04:23.15`	`*** part/#bzflag daniel_jackson (n=bsanford@cpe-66-74-192-236.san.res.rr.com)`
`04:23.17`	`codergeek42`	`bye daniel`
`04:26.24`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`could someone check out my ping patch and give me feedback on it?`
`04:27.32`	`JeffM2501`	`what does it do?`
`04:27.32`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`(in the sf tracker)`
`04:28.22`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`lets you find the ping time of a server in the server list`
`04:28.40`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`all in bzflag`
`04:28.43`	`JeffM2501`	`what is the interface to it?`
`04:28.55`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`the find server dialog`
`04:29.06`	`JeffM2501`	`does it do them all?`
`04:29.50`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`no, you hit 'p' to ping them, and it shows the ping in with the stats`
`04:30.22`	`JeffM2501`	`does it say "hit P to ping"?`
`04:30.29`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`uhh, no`
`04:30.40`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`should have that`
`04:30.44`	`JeffM2501`	`and it needs a proto bump`
`04:30.49`	`JeffM2501`	`building now`
`04:31.25`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n_ (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`04:31.48`	`JeffM2501`	`oh man dude`
`04:32.03`	`JeffM2501`	`you put the header in ping.h twice?`
`04:32.05`	`JeffM2501`	`WTF?`
`04:32.15`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`what?`
`04:32.26`	`JeffM2501`	`ping.h`
`04:32.31`	`JeffM2501`	`it added your code over the old ocde`
`04:32.33`	`JeffM2501`	`code`
`04:33.04`	`JeffM2501`	`the top of the merged file is all your stuff`
`04:33.07`	`JeffM2501`	`then another header`
`04:33.12`	`JeffM2501`	`THEN the old code`
`04:33.14`	`JeffM2501`	`with one mod`
`04:34.05`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`wait, maybe my patch is screwy`
`04:34.17`	`JeffM2501`	`you did your own #def in ping too?`
`04:34.22`	`JeffM2501`	`for PING_DRIVER?`
`04:35.42`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`that _should_ be in a separate file`
`04:35.42`	`JeffM2501`	`didn't merge in`
`04:35.42`	`JeffM2501`	`that's why I sad just zip in the new files ;)`
`04:35.43`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`hehe`
`04:35.43`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`ok`
`04:35.59`	`*** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com)`
`04:36.26`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`making a new one`
`04:39.44`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`you were right about zipping the new files :)`
`04:39.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it's way simpler`
`04:40.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I'dmake the ping limits be local config values`
`04:40.32`	`JeffM2501`	`so people can set there own color changes`
`04:40.37`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`oh`
`04:40.39`	`JeffM2501`	`so far other then that it looks nice`
`04:40.45`	`JeffM2501`	`that and add the "hit p" thing`
`04:40.54`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`ok`
`04:41.39`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah do those 2 things and I'll apply it`
`04:41.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and bump the proto for it :)`
`04:41.52`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`where is that?`
`04:42.03`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll do the proto, dont' wory`
`04:42.18`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`ok`
`04:42.25`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`redid the patch, btw`
`04:42.33`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`I'll work on it`
`04:42.37`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`04:42.42`	`JeffM2501`	`looks good tho, nice work`
`04:43.10`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`thanks`
`04:44.14`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`how do I add stuff to bzdb?`
`04:44.23`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`it's a little confusing`
`04:44.26`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a defaults file`
`04:44.33`	`JeffM2501`	`I can do the bzdb stuff`
`04:44.35`	`JeffM2501`	`that's no biggie`
`04:44.45`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`i'm curious`
`04:45.11`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`ahh, I see`
`04:45.22`	`JeffM2501`	`defaultBZDB.cxx`
`04:45.26`	`JeffM2501`	`addyour variable`
`04:45.30`	`JeffM2501`	`and the default value`
`04:45.33`	`JeffM2501`	`then in your code`
`04:45.54`	`JeffM2501`	`call BZDB.eval("thevariable")`
`04:46.37`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's called a lot, like multiple times per frame`
`04:46.44`	`JeffM2501`	`then you can add it to the cache`
`04:46.52`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`what does the persistent value do in the defaults?`
`04:47.20`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's saved in the config`
`04:47.22`	`JeffM2501`	`or a temp one`
`04:47.26`	`JeffM2501`	`set yours to true`
`04:47.29`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`ok`
`04:47.33`	`JeffM2501`	`so it'll be put in the default config`
`04:48.09`	`JeffM2501`	`you just want to copy the line form another local setting`
`04:48.26`	`JeffM2501`	`like showTreads`
`04:48.41`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`i get it`
`04:49.33`	`JeffM2501`	`your values should be fine for most users`
`04:49.44`	`JeffM2501`	`but someone may want to set there own limitsw`
`04:49.50`	`JeffM2501`	`this way they can in the config`
`04:49.57`	`JeffM2501`	`no need to put an interface on it cus it'll be so rare`
`04:50.14`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`unless you're on the moon or have a connection faster than light`
`04:54.54`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`Oh, and what determines how labels are layed out`
`04:54.58`	`TheRedBaron`	`JeffM2501: you amuse me, in an intriguing manner`
`04:55.21`	`TheRedBaron`	`or is it vice versa - you intrigue me, in an amusing manner`
`04:55.44`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`I have to second that`
`05:00.55`	`TheRedBaron`	`on that note, I depart`
`05:01.18`	`Constitution`	`goodnight`
`05:01.28`	`TheRedBaron`	`g'night`
`05:40.48`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not sure on the menu stuff, DTRemenak would know more`
`05:40.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I think it's just the order you add them`
`05:49.18`	`*** join/#bzflag jude- (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.az.comcast.net)`
`05:49.26`	`jude-`	`greetings everyone`
`05:49.30`	`Constitution`	`hi jude-`
`05:49.39`	`jude-`	`hello Constitution`
`05:49.40`	`Constitution`	`you're from Arizona?`
`05:49.44`	`jude-`	`yeah`
`05:49.48`	`Constitution`	`where at?`
`05:49.50`	`jude-`	`University of Arizoan`
`05:49.52`	`jude-`	`*Arizona`
`05:49.55`	`Constitution`	`ah, in Tucson`
`05:50.00`	`jude-`	`yup`
`05:50.06`	`Constitution`	`I'm up in Prescott`
`05:50.10`	`jude-`	`cool`
`05:50.17`	`jude-`	`NAU?`
`05:50.42`	`Constitution`	`no... community college... we're about 1 hour south of Flagstaff`
`05:50.47`	`jude-`	`ah`
`05:50.54`	`jude-`	`which one?`
`05:50.59`	`Constitution`	`Yavapai College`
`05:51.07`	`jude-`	`I've gotten letters from them`
`05:51.20`	`Constitution`	`wow, neato!`
`05:51.22`	`Constitution`	`small world :-)`
`05:51.23`	`jude-`	`looks like a nice place`
`05:51.28`	`Constitution`	`yes, definitely`
`05:51.48`	`Constitution`	`small world :-)`
`05:51.52`	`jude-`	`heh--U of A offered a full-ride scholarship`
`05:51.53`	`Constitution`	`oops`
`05:52.07`	`jude-`	`that, and its local`
`05:52.09`	`Constitution`	`ah... good deal`
`05:52.10`	`Constitution`	`yeah`
`05:53.03`	`jude-`	`its good to know there's someone else here from the same geographical region as me`
`05:53.10`	`Constitution`	`yeah, same here`
`05:53.58`	`jude-`	`what are you studying?`
`05:54.21`	`Constitution`	`just a mix of stuff right now... two music courses and college algebra`
`05:54.28`	`jude-`	`cool`
`05:54.34`	`jude-`	`you play an instrument?`
`05:54.59`	`Constitution`	`yes... I play the vocal cords ;-)`
`05:55.08`	`jude-`	`that works :)`
`05:55.12`	`jude-`	`I play tuba`
`05:55.28`	`Constitution`	`cool`
`05:56.28`	`jude-`	`ya'know, studies indicate that people like us--people who hone musical talent--perform better in spacial and mathematical intellectual activities`
`05:56.31`	`jude-`	`such as programming`
`05:56.39`	`Constitution`	`hmmm, make sense`
`05:57.09`	`jude-`	`don't know why that is, but its cool`
`05:57.15`	`Constitution`	`yeah`
`06:00.05`	`*** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@s122-112.resnet.ucla.edu)`
`06:00.08`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ`
`06:00.17`	`jude-`	`greeting comrad L4m3r`
`06:00.38`	`jude-`	`*greetings`
`06:00.52`	`L4m3r`	`hello jude-`
`06:02.25`	`L4m3r`	`is the spambot broken again? :)`
`06:02.43`	`JeffM2501`	`I took it offline`
`06:02.57`	`L4m3r`	`too evil?`
`06:03.20`	`L4m3r`	`s/evil/draconian`
`06:03.27`	`JeffM2501`	`unstable`
`06:03.28`	`SportChick`	`no spambot? :(`
`06:03.30`	`L4m3r`	`heh`
`06:03.58`	`JeffM2501`	`if we need it, it'll come back`
`06:14.49`	`*** join/#bzflag cosmos (n=cosmos@tuxproof.bunker.hepcat.org)`
`06:33.31`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@adsl-71-143-233-251.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net)`
`07:08.13`	`jude-`	`question about OpenGL textures`
`07:08.28`	`jude-`	`Let's say that I have the texture bits stored in RAM`
`07:08.42`	`jude-`	`and I can upload them to OpenGL via glTexImage2D`
`07:08.54`	`jude-`	`but I may change the bits later (i.e. blit an image to it)`
`07:09.15`	`jude-`	`to reflect the change in the 3D scene, is just another call glTexImage2D sufficient`
`07:09.18`	`jude-`	`?`
`07:09.25`	`jude-`	`or do I need to regenerate the texture entirely in OpenGL?`
`07:09.42`	`jude-`	`(this is assuming that the texture is just re-binded and glTexImage2D is called)`
`07:11.05`	`jude-`	`i.e. do I need to call, say, glGenTextures each time I change the bits I want in the texture?`
`07:19.11`	`*** join/#bzflag Archangel_13 (n=Daemonin@207-47-199-51.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca)`
`07:34.10`	`jude-`	`...because calling glTexImage2D alone doesn't cause any change`
`07:39.57`	`jude-`	`ahh--glTexSubImage2D does this`
`07:40.08`	`jude-`	`my bad`
`07:41.20`	`*** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net)`
`07:51.01`	`Constitution`	`~bzsvn`
`07:51.12`	`ibot`	`[bzsvn] http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag`
`07:51.19`	`Constitution`	`bz2_0svn`
`07:51.22`	`Constitution`	`~bz2_0svn`
`07:52.18`	`Constitution`	`~bz20svn`
`07:52.20`	`ibot`	`it has been said that bz20svn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/ bzflag`
`09:09.10`	`*** join/#bzflag zee271 (i=c1e72804@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-04a12c69e4329f8a)`
`09:36.02`	`Gracey`	`Hey, can anyone tell me how to give certain flags shot limits?`
`09:41.07`	`Gracey`	`nvm I know how`
`09:47.41`	`*** join/#bzflag tupone (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone)`
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`12:04.25`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter_ (n=RatOmete@r74-195-253-232.stl1cmta01.stwrok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net)`
`12:06.17`	`RatOmeter_`	`Manu, the CTF plugin at viper (2 castles) has gone a little crazy. At blue = 4 and red = 3, I says "even", at 4:4 "uneven", 3:2 "even"`
`12:06.35`	`RatOmeter_`	`"I says" -> "it says"`
`12:19.15`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-123-225.range86-139.btcentralplus.com)`
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`12:50.13`	`ryanakca`	`[SERVER->] /set failed, reason: variable _fogMode does not exist`
`12:50.27`	`ryanakca`	`on /set _fogMode exp2`
`12:52.44`	`ryanakca`	`any idea?`
`12:53.43`	`blast007`	`hmm`
`12:54.12`	`ryanakca`	`note of advice:`
`12:54.23`	`ryanakca`	`. /set _gravity 1000 = baaaad`
`12:54.28`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`12:54.32`	`blast007`	`up up and away!`
`12:54.59`	`blast007`	`:)`
`12:54.59`	`ryanakca`	`and now my server sigsev'd and doesn't want to restart`
`12:55.13`	`blast007`	`neat`
`12:55.26`	`blast007`	`that's 2.0.8?`
`12:55.36`	`ryanakca`	`yup`
`12:55.56`	`ryanakca`	`or no`
`12:55.59`	`ryanakca`	`2.0.4 :)`
`12:56.21`	`blast007`	`you probably want 2.0.9 anyway`
`12:56.22`	`blast007`	`from SVN`
`12:57.16`	`blast007`	`svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag`
`12:57.49`	`blast007`	`(v2_0branch is the 2.0.x compatible stuff, and trunk is 2.1.x which doesn't operate with 2.0.x)`
`12:58.26`	`ryanakca`	`kk`
`12:59.10`	`ryanakca`	`wow, you even gave me a debian/ dir...`
`12:59.18`	`ryanakca`	`now I can just pbuild it :)`
`12:59.22`	`blast007`	`heh`
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`14:30.46`	`BearPerson`	`hrm... do I see it correctly that PlayerInfo.team is never explicitly initialized?`
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`15:42.53`	`nouri`	`Hey where do you guys go to nowadays for ducati style games?`
`15:43.04`	`nouri`	`I'm not finding any popular R only servers`
`15:46.32`	`GiantEnemyCrab`	`hepcat?`
`15:49.15`	`Birdie`	`borrego`
`15:49.30`	`Birdie`	`but you can always try to get a ducati server allive by staying there (mostly it happens easlyà)`
`15:51.07`	`DTRemenak`	`BearPerson: sounds likely. we set the team when we get msgenter, iirc`
`15:51.13`	`BearPerson`	`ah`
`15:51.22`	`BearPerson`	`then I think there's a bug in bzfsAPI.cxx`
`15:51.31`	`DTRemenak`	`quite possibly`
`15:51.34`	`DTRemenak`	`where?`
`15:51.54`	`BearPerson`	`or basically, any place where we use p->player.getTeam() without checking p->player.isPlaying() first`
`15:52.42`	`BearPerson`	`(in this case, bz_getTeamCount() )`
`15:52.48`	`DTRemenak`	`yup, probably`
`15:53.01`	`BearPerson`	`-if ((p == NULL))`
`15:53.01`	`BearPerson`	`+if ((p == NULL) \|\| !p->player.isPlaying())`
`15:53.28`	`BearPerson`	`we've had the fairCTF plugin behave oddly sometimes, I think this might be the (or a) cause`
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`15:55.31`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14112 10/trunk/bzflag/src/game/PlayerInfo.cxx: Take the easy way out, explicitly initialize team to NoTeam on creation. Thanks BearPerson.`
`15:55.38`	`BearPerson`	`:)`
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`16:03.00`	`Winny`	`~murder ducktape and his inability to spell`
`16:03.02`	`ibot`	`ACTION shoots ducktape and his inability to spell in his sleep`
`16:04.06`	`Pumpernickel`	`~stop Winny's murderous rampage`
`16:04.08`	`ibot`	`ACTION leaps to his feet and stops Winny's murderous rampage`
`16:04.10`	`BearPerson`	`hmm`
`16:04.19`	`BearPerson`	`I wonder how many people can spell in their sleep, though`
`16:04.46`	`Winny`	`can probably spell while you dream`
`16:05.08`	`BearPerson`	`you can dream that you can spell, question is if you indeed can`
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`21:21.23`	`Winny`	`ECHO`
`21:21.26`	`Winny`	`echo`
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`21:33.36`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+vv L4m3r ruskie] by irc.freenode.net`
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`21:34.20`	`deltaray`	`Any idea when the wiki might be back up?`
`21:34.43`	`CBG`	`It aint down.`
`21:34.43`	`CBG`	`http://my.bzflag.org/w/Main_Page`
`21:36.29`	`donny_baker`	`the bzflag.org/wiki is no more... it has all been moved to the address that CBG gave`
`21:38.02`	`me1`	`woah, everyone came back`
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`21:39.33`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ`
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`21:40.00`	`Winny`	`I think a router had a small hiccup`
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`21:43.57`	`CBG`	`me1: from a netsplit? why wouldn't they?`
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`21:43.57`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ`
`21:45.38`	`deltaray`	`Oh`
`21:45.39`	`deltaray`	`ok`
`21:45.48`	`deltaray`	`I just did a search on google and the old one came up`
`21:54.07`	`*** topic/#bzflag by deltaray -> http://BZFlag.org \|\| http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help \|\| http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 \|\| http://ohloh.net/projects/189 \|\| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag \|\| New WIKI! http://my.bzflag.org/w/ \|\| Migrated from CVS to SVN: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN \|\| GSoC 4 slots: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Program_Evaluation`
`21:54.16`	`deltaray`	`Whoops`
`21:54.18`	`deltaray`	`I'm sorry`
`21:54.28`	`deltaray`	`Where can I get bzfs?`
`21:56.43`	`tupone`	`normally shipped together with the client`
`22:01.04`	`deltaray`	`Hmmm, well on Ubuntu that doesn't seem to be the case`
`22:01.17`	`deltaray`	`At least bzfs isn't in my path, let me search for it.`
`22:09.52`	`*** part/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@71.174.54.125)`
`22:15.11`	`deltaray`	`Nope, nowhere in /usr Although I found the man page file for it.`
`22:15.12`	`deltaray`	`Weird`
`22:17.37`	`tupone`	`ubuntu... have you tried to see if there is some package called bzflag-server or something like that?`
`22:23.55`	`*** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-116.ewetel.net)`
`22:28.56`	`CBG`	`My advice? Get a real OS. Debian anyone?`
`22:34.06`	`*** join/#bzflag Gracey (n=GF@60-240-216-210.tpgi.com.au)`
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`22:48.17`	`TD-Linux`	`imho, ubuntu counts as debian:`
`22:48.28`	`TD-Linux`	`deltaray, might I suggest getting the source from SVN and compiling it?`
`22:48.56`	`*** part/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=Think_Di@pool-70-21-57-190.res.east.verizon.net)`
`22:49.00`	`CBG`	`ubuntu is debian... for noobs. :P`
`22:49.31`	`Dessy`	`lol`
`22:49.41`	`Dessy`	`wich linux is the best?`
`22:49.43`	`Dessy`	`debian?`
`22:50.20`	`TD-Linux`	`Fedora is not.`
`22:50.54`	`ruskie`	`none...`
`22:50.56`	`ruskie`	`to each his own`
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`22:53.51`	`eTangenT`	`I liked SuSE for the most part`
`22:53.58`	`eTangenT`	`but it has its downsides`
`22:55.48`	`eTangenT`	`I've also used Ubuntu, which I didn't find particularly wonderful... but it certainly wasn't BAD.`
`23:01.54`	`ruskie`	`novell should die a horrible death...`
`23:02.15`	`tupone`	`gentoo is the best :)`
`23:02.31`	`eTangenT`	`tupone, I tried Gentoo.`
`23:02.40`	`eTangenT`	`Never got KDE completely functional, X either.`
`23:02.55`	`eTangenT`	`I'm gonna be replacing this current piece of a laptop`
`23:02.59`	`eTangenT`	`stupid Dell`
`23:03.31`	`tupone`	`so X does not work?`
`23:05.57`	`eTangenT`	`pretty much`
`23:06.03`	`eTangenT`	`apparently my hard drive is going out, too`
`23:06.08`	`eTangenT`	`well, I should say that X worked`
`23:06.20`	`eTangenT`	`but for some reason it was randomly picking up keys and mouse movement`
`23:06.50`	`tupone`	`maybe synaptic was ?`
`23:07.07`	`eTangenT`	`synaptic... how'd you know I had that driver?`
`23:08.05`	`eTangenT`	`anyways, I'm going to be replacing this laptop`
`23:08.13`	`eTangenT`	`I get the gist of installing Gentoo now`
`23:08.29`	`tupone`	`I have gentoo on this laptop, and works like a charm`
`23:08.30`	`eTangenT`	`though it might be different on a Core 2 Duo, but not by too much, I assume`
`23:08.48`	`eTangenT`	`tupone: With Gentoo, my lappy actually booted up in under 5 minutes.`
`23:09.44`	`tupone`	`under 5 minute? even mine, but a lot less of 5`
`23:10.01`	`poolio`	`With gentoo my laptop boots in <30 seconds...`
`23:10.52`	`tupone`	`30 seconds is under 5 minutes, so no difference up to now`
`23:18.13`	`deltaray`	`CBG: Making fun of distros? Get a real attitude.`
`23:18.56`	`CBG`	`Making fun? No.`
`23:19.01`	`deltaray`	`Oh here it is. Don't know why I didn't see it before. bzflag-server`
`23:19.05`	`eTangenT`	`deltaray, you'll quickly learn to ignore half of CBG's comments. 3:14P`
`23:19.20`	`CBG`	`only half?`
`23:19.30`	`deltaray`	`That's something you hear on practically any channel about someone.`
`23:19.49`	`deltaray`	`There is always a couple of channel/forum/website idiots`
`23:19.52`	`CBG`	`Pardon?`
`23:20.06`	`CBG`	`A ubuntu user calling me an idiot? Oh, the irony.`
`23:21.24`	`CBG`	`You embarrassed yourself already, pal.`
`23:22.08`	`a_meteorite`	`Some people like the simplicity of Ubuntu.`
`23:22.51`	`deltaray`	`a_meteorite: Right. THis is my 10th year using Linux. I try different distributions to see whats going on and to keep up`
`23:23.22`	`deltaray`	`Ubuntu is going in a good direction for a lot of people. Not all though. But a lot.`
`23:23.24`	`a_meteorite`	`I've been using Linux for about 3 years. 10 years ago I got my first computer, though. :)`
`23:23.51`	`a_meteorite`	`Ahh... Pentium 233, 32MB, Windows 95...`
`23:24.25`	`a_meteorite`	`I'm a youngin' too. :P`
`23:24.55`	`deltaray`	`;-)`
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`23:25.39`	`ruskie`	`I've been using linux for the past 10 years on-and-off`
`23:25.48`	`ruskie`	`and I got my first box a year before that :)`
`23:26.07`	`a_meteorite`	`heh`
`23:26.13`	`ruskie`	`always had it on dual boot until 3 years ago`
`23:26.15`	`*** part/#bzflag kierra (i=473106e4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-f6579b95793434b5)`
`23:26.18`	`ruskie`	`when I fully switched :)`
`23:26.56`	`TD-Linux`	`I managed to convince my computer image processing teacher to let me boot it`
`23:27.12`	`TD-Linux`	`everyone was like OOH AAH, IT'S SO FAST!`
`23:27.13`	`DTRemenak`	`I've been using linux for around 11 years and don't care for ubuntu either. Wouldn't call you an idiot for using it though, that's just childish; different strokes for different folks and all.`
`23:27.24`	`TD-Linux`	`and then they said, eww KDE is complicated`
`23:27.25`	`ruskie`	`yup`
`23:27.31`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`23:27.35`	`a_meteorite`	`TD-Linux: I agree with them about KDE :P`
`23:27.46`	`ruskie`	`fvwm4life`
`23:27.53`	`TD-Linux`	`I'm actually using kde right now`
`23:27.59`	`DTRemenak`	`windowmaker ftw :)`
`23:28.01`	`CBG`	`DTRemenak: I don't recall calling anyone an "idiot" for using ubuntu.`
`23:28.06`	`TD-Linux`	`It's the best I've found, but I haven't tried that many.`
`23:28.10`	`deltaray`	`ruskie: Rock! I was a long time FVWM user too. Sometimes I try it again. I lost all my good .fvwmrc files though`
`23:28.18`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`23:28.24`	`DTRemenak`	`CBG: didn't suggest you did`
`23:28.25`	`ruskie`	`it was the first wm I started using on linux`
`23:28.26`	`TD-Linux`	`I used Kubuntu for a while and really liked it.`
`23:28.43`	`ruskie`	`then went through all the motions of trying others`
`23:28.43`	`deltaray`	`It took a long time before Gnome or KDE got to the point where the virtual window manager worked the way FVWM would.`
`23:28.48`	`deltaray`	`I kept going back`
`23:28.49`	`ruskie`	`but last year again came back to it`
`23:28.56`	`CBG`	`DTRemenak: neither did I. ;) Just pointing it out.`
`23:29.02`	`TD-Linux`	`ubuntu's main issues are upgrading from one version to the next`
`23:29.15`	`ruskie`	`I think all binary distros have that downside`
`23:29.37`	`TD-Linux`	`namely, somehow it never fails to kill X`
`23:30.18`	`deltaray`	`CBG: No, but you've fallen into the same pit that so many other people do nowadays. Making fun of someone for their choices. Its really not nice and you end up misjudging people and making yourself look stupid.`
`23:31.07`	`a_meteorite`	`amen`
`23:31.21`	`DTRemenak`	`though it is in many ways better to make fun of someone for their choices than for their intrinsic properties, which is an age-old tradition also`
`23:31.33`	`deltaray`	`I was a Gentoo user before I tried Ubuntu. If that says anything.`
`23:32.16`	`CBG`	`deltaray: I made a joke.`
`23:32.25`	`brlcad`	`it's on-line chat and irc at that, nothing anyone says means much :)`
`23:32.29`	`CBG`	`I ddin't directly insult anyone, that was you.`
`23:32.33`	`brlcad`	`including what I just said`
`23:32.40`	`DTRemenak`	`~brlcad++`
`23:33.50`	`tupone`	`hola brlcad`
`23:35.19`	`brlcad`	`ciao tupone`
`23:35.25`	`tupone`	`have you got some spare time now?`
`23:36.04`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`23:36.18`	`brlcad`	`not really :(`
`23:36.24`	`tupone`	`I saw you busy yesterday, and worried for your races`
`23:36.25`	`brlcad`	`depends for what though too`
`23:37.08`	`brlcad`	`too busy at work and a trip next week that I'm preparing for this weekend`
`23:37.28`	`tupone`	`ahh`
`23:37.55`	`tupone`	`a brlcad release?`
`23:38.14`	`brlcad`	`that was the busy a couple weeks ago`
`23:38.24`	`tupone`	`:)`
`23:39.16`	`tupone`	`I still have to think at the brlcad gentoo release :/`
`23:39.33`	`brlcad`	`someone's trying to work on that right now actually`
`23:39.34`	`eTangenT`	`brlinuxcad`
`23:39.35`	`eTangenT`	`3:14D`
`23:40.07`	`tupone`	`ahh good. Some gentoo developers or some guys at yours?`
`23:40.09`	`brlcad`	`linuxcad is useless`
`23:40.50`	`eTangenT`	`I want to get that new lappy soon`
`23:40.54`	`eTangenT`	`hm`
`23:40.57`	`brlcad`	`tells you something when the #2 google result is "why I don't like linuxcad"`
`23:41.06`	`eTangenT`	`3:14D`
`23:41.28`	`eTangenT`	`but I'm unsure of what distro I want to use`
`23:41.47`	`eTangenT`	`I really want to use Gentoo`
`23:42.06`	`eTangenT`	`but I'm so familiar with SuSE`
`23:43.03`	`ruskie`	`eTangenT, try source mage :)`
`23:44.18`	`eTangenT`	`whoa`
`23:44.20`	`eTangenT`	`what on earth...`
`23:46.12`	`eTangenT`	`actually, aside from the obvious appearance of RPG geekdom... that sounds like a really neat distro`
`23:47.39`	`ruskie`	`well try #sourcemage </end shameless self promotion>`
`23:47.39`	`brlcad`	`tupone: neither`
`23:47.39`	`brlcad`	`just some interested gentoo user`
`23:47.40`	`tupone`	`ahh, not that good then`
`23:47.43`	`tupone`	`but we will look for the result`
`23:53.50`	`brlcad`	`yeah, and he's not the most familiar for such a complex build`
`23:56.52`	`TD-Linux`	`whoa, sourcemage looks so... awesome`

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