| 00:13.07 | *** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@67-42-80-2.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 00:23.27 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (n=dbharris@bas14-toronto12-1167996784.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:27.28 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@pool-71-184-81-71.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:27.39 | *** part/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@pool-71-184-81-71.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 00:42.16 | *** part/#bzflag jh` (i=jh@host-212-149-251-120.kpylaajakaista.net) |
| 00:45.30 | *** join/#bzflag trepan (n=trepan@unaffiliated/trepan) |
| 00:45.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v trepan] by ChanServ |
| 00:47.11 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 00:49.45 | a_meteorite | Bz_Win_Awayish: ping |
| 00:53.20 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 01:05.36 | Bz_Win_Awayish | a_meteorite: ppng |
| 01:05.40 | Bz_Win_Awayish | err :p |
| 01:05.42 | Bz_Win_Awayish | pong* |
| 01:05.49 | a_meteorite | HEH |
| 01:05.56 | a_meteorite | whoops, caps-lock >_< |
| 01:06.00 | Bz_Win_Awayish | LOLZ |
| 01:06.04 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 01:06.44 | a_meteorite | Bz_Win_Awayish: I need you to change DNS |
| 01:06.48 | a_meteorite | hold on, getting the host |
| 01:07.24 | *** join/#bzflag that (n=nedwards@adsl-154-79-76.aby.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:07.32 | a_meteorite | Bz_Win_Awayish: I need you to change bzfx.net's DNS to a CNAME to redjacket.strangled.net |
| 01:07.36 | *** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200) |
| 01:08.18 | that | hey, what does it mean when the client says, "Incompatible server version BZFS0047" when i try to connect to t server? |
| 01:09.07 | Bz_Win_Awayish | met: done |
| 01:09.53 | Bz_Win_Awayish | g2g.. again :p |
| 01:09.58 | a_meteorite | and then make an eu subdomain (eu.bzfx.net) CNAME to in-league.bzflag.eu |
| 01:10.12 | Bz_Win_Awayish | send me a pm about it plz |
| 01:10.15 | Bz_Win_Awayish | on BZBB |
| 01:10.18 | a_meteorite | k |
| 01:10.20 | Bz_Win_Awayish | my mom is pulling me by the ear |
| 01:10.23 | a_meteorite | :o |
| 01:10.26 | a_meteorite | cya |
| 01:10.30 | Bz_Win_Awayish | to get off :p |
| 01:10.46 | brlcad | hi mom |
| 01:10.55 | brlcad | pull harder |
| 01:11.08 | Bz_Win_Awayish | she is asking who you are :p |
| 01:11.14 | brlcad | :) |
| 01:11.24 | brlcad | so tell her |
| 01:11.42 | brlcad | be a good boy and listen to mommy :) |
| 01:11.46 | Bz_Win_Awayish | :p |
| 01:12.19 | AAA_awright | that: still wondering? |
| 01:12.27 | that | yes |
| 01:12.31 | a_meteorite | tell her I am a server owner |
| 01:12.36 | a_meteorite | cause I am :P |
| 01:12.46 | lodxcol | it means the BZFS version is not 2.0.x |
| 01:12.47 | AAA_awright | It means two different bzflag versions don;t work together |
| 01:12.56 | that | would i need 2.0.9 for it? |
| 01:13.03 | a_meteorite | no, you need 2.1 |
| 01:13.05 | lodxcol | no, 2.0.9 is 2.0.x |
| 01:13.05 | AAA_awright | 2.0.9 should be compatible... |
| 01:13.09 | *** part/#bzflag trepan (n=trepan@unaffiliated/trepan) |
| 01:13.13 | AAA_awright | 2.1.0, correct? |
| 01:13.14 | lodxcol | you'd need 2.1 |
| 01:13.16 | that | is 2.1 available in the cvs? |
| 01:13.20 | AAA_awright | yes |
| 01:13.21 | lodxcol | yes |
| 01:13.22 | a_meteorite | yes, it's HEAD |
| 01:13.23 | that | idk that |
| 01:13.26 | lodxcol | ~bzcvs |
| 01:13.38 | ibot | somebody said bzcvs was http://my.bzflag.org/wiki/index.php/BZFlag_CVS, or cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P bzflag |
| 01:13.38 | AAA_awright | the HEAD branch? |
| 01:13.38 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 01:13.54 | a_meteorite | yeah, just use that command. it'll get 2.1 |
| 01:14.03 | that | thx |
| 01:14.25 | lodxcol | read that wiki page, you've gotta login anonymously first |
| 01:14.38 | that | isnt the pass blank? |
| 01:14.43 | lodxcol | yep |
| 01:14.50 | a_meteorite | lodxcol: I never had to... |
| 01:14.57 | that | yeah, right now its updating the version in my terminal... |
| 01:14.57 | lodxcol | I did |
| 01:15.01 | a_meteorite | maybe cvs remembered it for me, though |
| 01:15.32 | JeffM2501 | some clients try a blank password by default |
| 01:16.49 | a_meteorite | Any idea why on mbo's (got stats) server list bzflag.ziadora.net:5154 says there are 48 players but then on it's page ( http://my.bzflag.org/serverinfo.php?server=bzflag.ziadora.net%3A5154 ) it can't get any info? |
| 01:17.04 | that | thats the server i was trying to get on to |
| 01:17.20 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 01:17.23 | JeffM2501 | the stats site is not updated to new protocoll |
| 01:17.27 | JeffM2501 | IIRC |
| 01:17.51 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:4cb1:b973:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 01:17.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 01:17.53 | lodxcol | yeah, mbo can't read 2.1 servers correctly |
| 01:18.11 | a_meteorite | oh, so that's a 2.1 server and it's reading it all wrong? |
| 01:18.18 | lodxcol | yep |
| 01:18.21 | a_meteorite | gotcha |
| 01:18.23 | that | now, where would it have saved the 2.1 client to? |
| 01:18.34 | lodxcol | that: what OS? |
| 01:18.36 | a_meteorite | that: you have to compile it |
| 01:18.38 | that | mac |
| 01:18.51 | lodxcol | look in your home directory, ~/bzflag |
| 01:18.51 | that | where would the source have saved to, then? |
| 01:19.18 | lodxcol | or /Users/that/bzflag |
| 01:19.30 | that | ok, found it |
| 01:21.01 | a_meteorite | just noticed 2.1's flag markers... interesting.. |
| 01:21.21 | *** join/#bzflag orchid_ (n=bzgirl@unaffiliated/orchid) |
| 01:21.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid_] by ChanServ |
| 01:33.39 | that | the terminal cancelled the autogen process by saying, "ERROR: aclocal failed" |
| 01:36.17 | blast007 | do you have the autotools installed? |
| 01:36.33 | blast007 | type 'aclocal' at a terminal |
| 01:36.59 | that | it says, "configure.ac or configure.in" is required |
| 01:37.31 | brlcad | that: run ./autogen.sh --verbose |
| 01:37.47 | brlcad | provide the output in pastebin |
| 01:38.24 | that | pastebin? |
| 01:38.30 | brlcad | ~pastebin |
| 01:38.42 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 01:39.52 | that | its at http://channels.debian.net/paste/5855 |
| 01:41.13 | brlcad | that is really odd |
| 01:41.24 | brlcad | do you have configure.ac ? |
| 01:41.32 | that | where would i find that? |
| 01:41.43 | brlcad | ls -la configure.ac |
| 01:41.56 | brlcad | should be in the same dir as autogen.sh |
| 01:42.13 | that | yes, configure.ac is there |
| 01:42.20 | brlcad | show me the line |
| 01:42.28 | that | line? |
| 01:42.49 | brlcad | ls -l configure.ac |
| 01:43.35 | brlcad | for some reason, autoconf thinks you don't have it |
| 01:43.46 | that | -rw-r--r-- 1 my-name my-short-name 32874 Feb 24 15:03 configure.ac |
| 01:44.00 | brlcad | hm, well that's fine |
| 01:44.06 | brlcad | and even the right size |
| 01:44.17 | brlcad | run: autoreconf -I m4 -i -f |
| 01:45.43 | brlcad | does it still say "autoreconf: `configure.ac' or `configure.in' is required' |
| 01:46.54 | that | no, it says neither |
| 01:47.11 | brlcad | did it succeed? |
| 01:47.18 | that | its in progress |
| 01:47.24 | brlcad | huh |
| 01:47.41 | that | ok, the build system successfully prepared itself |
| 01:47.43 | brlcad | and you ran exactly "./autogen.sh --verbose" |
| 01:47.51 | brlcad | earlier |
| 01:47.53 | that | well, without the --verbose |
| 01:47.57 | brlcad | sure |
| 01:48.00 | brlcad | but with the ./ |
| 01:48.04 | that | yes |
| 01:48.10 | brlcad | that makes no sense then :) |
| 01:48.20 | brlcad | all autogen.sh does is run exactly that command |
| 01:49.21 | that | when i run ./configure, should i have the --build option after it? |
| 01:49.38 | brlcad | not necessary |
| 01:49.48 | brlcad | i'm still concerned why autogen.sh did not succeed |
| 01:49.52 | blast007 | by default you can just run ./configure to make it build bzfs, bzflag, and bzadmin |
| 01:49.54 | brlcad | that's the first such message |
| 01:50.02 | blast007 | (assuming the necessary dependencies are installed) |
| 01:50.23 | brlcad | did you say this is a mac? |
| 01:50.27 | that | yes |
| 01:50.34 | brlcad | even more bizarre then |
| 01:51.16 | brlcad | where did libtoolize come from? |
| 01:51.30 | brlcad | you installed that on your own or created a symlink? |
| 01:51.55 | that | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:52.15 | brlcad | okay, well that explains that then.. and why autoreconf succeeded |
| 01:52.24 | brlcad | but not why autogen.sh fails still |
| 01:52.58 | brlcad | would you mind editing autogen.sh to test something? |
| 01:53.17 | that | the configure said that it did not install SDL |
| 01:53.49 | that | editing what and to do what? |
| 01:54.20 | brlcad | the script you were running, autogen.sh .. to edit it so I can try to see what's going wrong |
| 01:54.26 | that | what part of it |
| 01:55.41 | brlcad | run: perl -pi -e 's/Automatically/Automatically from [\`pwd\`]/' autogen.sh |
| 01:55.57 | brlcad | then run ./autogen.sh and tell me the Automatically line |
| 01:56.21 | that | Automatically from [/users/my-name/bzflag] preparing build |
| 01:57.03 | brlcad | hmm |
| 01:57.19 | brlcad | presumably really says /Users/... not /users/... |
| 01:57.36 | that | no, it says /users/ |
| 01:58.36 | that | after ls ing both folders, though, they're both the same |
| 01:58.49 | that | lol |
| 01:59.05 | brlcad | that: they are the same.. it's just really odd that pwd would give it to you in lowercase |
| 01:59.17 | brlcad | i've never seen that |
| 01:59.30 | brlcad | cept on nfs volumes |
| 02:00.07 | that | well, where would i find the compiled app? |
| 02:00.35 | Bz_Win | byebye :D |
| 02:00.53 | *** part/#bzflag Bz_Win (n=Kyle@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:01.39 | that | oh, there are so many users here that i didnt notice |
| 02:05.28 | brlcad | well, that splains that then.. I'll just chaulk it up to something screwy with your setup ;) |
| 02:05.41 | brlcad | after configure, run make and the binary will be in src/bzflag/bzflag |
| 02:11.30 | brlcad | (presuming there are no build errors) |
| 02:11.50 | that | the build said, "no SDL!" |
| 02:12.06 | brlcad | cvs head is not compatible with the current client, there is the v2_0branch for compatible clients |
| 02:12.16 | brlcad | that should be fine depending on what you're trying to do |
| 02:12.36 | that | what would i put after "make"? |
| 02:12.38 | brlcad | otherwise you'll need to install SDL developer frameworks |
| 02:12.41 | brlcad | nothing |
| 02:12.43 | brlcad | just make |
| 02:12.50 | that | make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. |
| 02:13.09 | that | wait... |
| 02:14.00 | that | i had changed the pwd, oops |
| 02:19.26 | that | how long should this take? |
| 02:20.43 | a_meteorite | depends on your computer specs |
| 02:21.18 | that | iMac G5 512MB RAM, 2GHz |
| 02:21.23 | a_meteorite | takes about an hour (give or take) on my 2ghz G5, 512MB |
| 02:21.30 | that | oh, wow |
| 02:21.30 | a_meteorite | heh, we got the same computer |
| 02:24.04 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 02:24.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 02:24.25 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 02:24.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 02:25.41 | *** join/#bzflag tcoppi (n=thisnuke@129.138.32.143) |
| 02:26.56 | menotume | SportChick: Did I get that right? Did romfis just 'steal' all the pics from my site, and do his own ? :) |
| 02:27.13 | SportChick | menotume: I think so - I think he was showing you an alternative :) |
| 02:27.22 | menotume | I wonder if he got their permission :) |
| 02:27.29 | SportChick | and his had the teams somewhat sorted out, though he had a lot of the mistakes your site still has |
| 02:27.36 | menotume | heh, it's the same. unfirtunatley, it doesn't work |
| 02:28.11 | menotume | too many people on multiple teams. I have one pic that has 2 players (diff teams) on it, etc. |
| 02:28.21 | menotume | I'm currently working on a new solution |
| 02:28.23 | menotume | oh well |
| 02:28.42 | SportChick | hehe |
| 02:28.48 | SportChick | link it to bzleague ;) |
| 02:28.58 | menotume | esp in GU league, is impossible to keep teams straight, they change every day. |
| 02:29.09 | SportChick | then when a player leaves/changes teams, they get automatically moved into the right category :D |
| 02:29.19 | menotume | ~pw |
| 02:29.21 | ibot | from memory, patches welcome is a common response by maintainers of Open Source products. It's roughly means "We don't have much time on our hands, so if you write that feature and send it to us we will likely roll it in. If you don't have the time to write it, we don't either. Stop asking for it." |
| 02:30.26 | JeffM2501 | blast007, I lied it's a 40 gig drive |
| 02:39.04 | AAA_awright | ~ping |
| 02:39.09 | ibot | pong |
| 02:45.25 | that | after compilation, where would the app be saved? |
| 02:47.07 | that | nvm |
| 02:55.21 | *** part/#bzflag that (n=nedwards@adsl-154-79-76.aby.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:58.58 | *** join/#bzflag Jwir3 (n=Jwir3@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 03:00.33 | *** join/#bzflag jude (n=jude@c-68-84-206-92.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) |
| 03:01.00 | *** join/#bzflag that (n=nedwards@adsl-154-79-76.aby.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:01.15 | that | question: where would i find the source to 2.0.9? |
| 03:01.29 | jude- | cvs |
| 03:02.12 | A-Delusion | ~cvs |
| 03:02.22 | ibot | well, cvs is concurrent versions systems. more info here http://www.cvshome.org/. |
| 03:02.23 | that | where on the cvs can i find it..... |
| 03:02.27 | JeffM2501 | under the v2_0branch |
| 03:02.37 | JeffM2501 | what cvs client do you use? |
| 03:02.58 | wegstar | ~bzcvs |
| 03:02.59 | ibot | i guess bzcvs is http://my.bzflag.org/wiki/index.php/BZFlag_CVS, or cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P bzflag |
| 03:03.44 | that | i think i use fink... |
| 03:03.59 | JeffM2501 | ahh your on a mac then |
| 03:04.06 | JeffM2501 | fink is your package manager not your cvs client |
| 03:04.10 | JeffM2501 | you use the command line cvs |
| 03:04.13 | that | yes |
| 03:04.22 | JeffM2501 | check the wiki page and follow what it says for command line cvs then |
| 03:04.49 | that | would i just put "bzflag/v2_0branch"? |
| 03:04.57 | JeffM2501 | what feature are you looking for in 2.0.9 that is not in 2.0.8 |
| 03:05.01 | JeffM2501 | no, read the wiki page |
| 03:05.05 | JeffM2501 | it tells you where to put the branch |
| 03:05.13 | JeffM2501 | it's NOT part of the modlue |
| 03:05.16 | JeffM2501 | module |
| 03:05.20 | JeffM2501 | fink is semi-evil |
| 03:05.24 | JeffM2501 | and can jack your build system |
| 03:08.38 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=JBdiGriz@adsl-63-199-246-191.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net) |
| 03:08.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 03:20.58 | *** join/#bzflag pippo3_ (n=mastro@adsl-ull-248-58.44-151.net24.it) |
| 03:38.49 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:49.20 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@mmds-216-19-24-101.mm.az.commspeed.net) |
| 04:05.10 | *** join/#bzflag tupone_laptop (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 04:05.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone_laptop] by ChanServ |
| 04:26.12 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 04:26.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 04:29.07 | *** part/#bzflag tcoppi (n=thisnuke@129.138.32.143) |
| 04:56.52 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: what's BZFlagG3D? |
| 04:58.09 | JeffM2501 | ass |
| 04:58.13 | JeffM2501 | total ass |
| 04:59.11 | JeffM2501 | kill it |
| 04:59.15 | JeffM2501 | for great justice |
| 05:03.42 | jude- | why? what is it? |
| 05:07.04 | JeffM2501 | an old atempt to redo the client using G3d |
| 05:07.21 | jude- | ah |
| 05:07.28 | Jwir3 | night all |
| 05:07.40 | *** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200) |
| 05:07.54 | JeffM2501 | tho it may be benifical to reevaluate it |
| 05:08.04 | JeffM2501 | but I think I hated it for it's font system |
| 05:08.10 | JeffM2501 | it IS right hand tho :) |
| 05:08.41 | jude- | as in, right-handed coordinate system? |
| 05:08.59 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 05:09.05 | jude- | I see |
| 05:09.21 | jude- | mathematically accurate |
| 05:10.08 | JeffM2501 | left is just as accurate |
| 05:10.16 | JeffM2501 | you just have to revese some calcs :) |
| 05:10.21 | JeffM2501 | so it's a pain |
| 05:11.07 | purple_cow | well, there are a couple options |
| 05:11.14 | purple_cow | I can kill it really dead |
| 05:11.23 | purple_cow | or I can let it sit in history, as a potential zombie |
| 05:11.56 | JeffM2501 | kill it |
| 05:12.01 | JeffM2501 | it has no real code worth saving |
| 05:12.10 | JeffM2501 | it's basicly a bad menu |
| 05:12.26 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 05:12.37 | purple_cow | ok, couple more things. 'playground' and 'scrapbox' |
| 05:12.37 | JeffM2501 | if someone needs that I'll re-write it in like an hour :) |
| 05:12.39 | purple_cow | what are those? |
| 05:12.49 | JeffM2501 | playground was me screwing stuff up |
| 05:12.52 | JeffM2501 | I have a copy here |
| 05:12.58 | JeffM2501 | scrapbox is crap too |
| 05:13.11 | *** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@67-42-80-2.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 05:13.21 | JeffM2501 | I've moved the important stuff from playground into head ( the hud markers ) |
| 05:13.30 | JeffM2501 | it also has a round hud, but noone liked that |
| 05:21.58 | purple_cow | ok, looks like it won't turn off CVS anyhow |
| 05:22.12 | purple_cow | shame there's no way to turn cvs read-only |
| 05:22.37 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 05:22.58 | JeffM2501 | can we change the module names or something? |
| 05:23.11 | JeffM2501 | something to screw up old access |
| 05:23.26 | JeffM2501 | cvs is a seperate flag in the dev access section isn't it? |
| 05:23.29 | JeffM2501 | cvs and svn |
| 05:23.35 | JeffM2501 | we can just turn em all off from cvs |
| 05:24.33 | DTRemenak | or set cvs_acls to deny write |
| 05:24.40 | JeffM2501 | yeah, I double checked, we can hit all the devs up and turn off cvs and leave svn on |
| 05:24.50 | DTRemenak | be better to disable write access |
| 05:24.59 | DTRemenak | some of us would still like to be able to diff our trees |
| 05:25.15 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 05:26.02 | purple_cow | DTRemenak: that would work |
| 05:26.10 | purple_cow | cvs_acls is greek to me |
| 05:26.54 | *** topic/#bzflag by purple_cow -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help || Paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || BZFlag is participating in GSoC: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code || CVS migration pending, don't commit if you don't want to move changes manually |
| 05:28.38 | purple_cow | that's a sizeable title |
| 05:28.51 | purple_cow | topic |
| 05:28.52 | purple_cow | whatever |
| 05:29.36 | *** join/#bzflag onami (n=jjjj@89.136.135.138) |
| 05:30.40 | blast007 | JeffM2501: 40GB is fine ;) |
| 05:30.51 | blast007 | only gonna be used for the browser anyway |
| 05:31.06 | blast007 | and maybe a little photoshop |
| 05:31.55 | DTRemenak | hm, actually it doesn't look like cvs_acls allows separate control of read and write |
| 05:32.03 | JeffM2501 | k,I"ll know tomorow what the deal is |
| 05:34.07 | blast007 | k |
| 05:34.14 | DTRemenak | ahhh, no, cvs_acls only ever restricts write |
| 05:34.24 | DTRemenak | so we should just be able to mark the whole thing unavail |
| 05:46.14 | purple_cow | DTRemenak: actually, want to turn off write access now? |
| 05:46.23 | purple_cow | it'll prevent mistakes that'll be a pain to fix |
| 05:46.25 | DTRemenak | sure, if you'd like |
| 05:46.27 | DTRemenak | ok |
| 05:48.43 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10CVSROOT/ (avail checkoutlist): |
| 05:48.43 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: cvs_acls to disable repository writes pending subversion migration. |
| 05:48.43 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: project admins and myself should still have write access to the CVSROOT module, so this can be reversed if necessary. |
| 05:50.02 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10CVSROOT/commitinfo: enable cvs_acls |
| 05:50.07 | DTRemenak | k, that should do it |
| 05:50.17 | *** topic/#bzflag by purple_cow -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help || Paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || BZFlag is participating in GSoC: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code || SVN migration pending, CVS is now read-only. |
| 05:51.10 | DTRemenak | woot. **** Access denied: Insufficient Karma (dtremenak|bzflag|) |
| 05:51.15 | purple_cow | hah |
| 05:56.38 | purple_cow | yon? |
| 05:57.12 | DTRemenak | ~dict 2 yon |
| 06:00.21 | purple_cow | just surprised to see his choice of word |
| 06:00.45 | DTRemenak | my apologies for misunderstanding |
| 06:01.01 | DTRemenak | woohoo |
| 06:01.47 | purple_cow | surprise, mirth and wonder |
| 06:02.00 | purple_cow | the last exerting itself upon my choice of punctuation |
| 06:02.33 | purple_cow | Total SVN Commits: 14085 |
| 06:02.34 | purple_cow | First Revision Date: Sat Mar 4 22:16:18 2000 |
| 06:02.34 | purple_cow | Last Revision Date: Tue Mar 27 14:46:19 2007 |
| 06:02.43 | JeffM2501 | it felt like TheThingToDo(TM) |
| 06:03.00 | DTRemenak | wow, seven years to within a month |
| 06:03.41 | purple_cow | I suppose while I'm waiting for it to commit revisions out of the dump, I should read through this guy's resume for tomorrow |
| 06:05.43 | JeffM2501 | is each module now a directory? |
| 06:07.10 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: pretty much |
| 06:07.14 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 06:07.22 | purple_cow | trunk/bzflag, trunk/db, trunk/bzedit, etc. |
| 06:07.57 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 06:08.14 | JeffM2501 | svn wiki page is stubbed |
| 06:08.17 | JeffM2501 | but there now |
| 06:11.32 | *** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 06:25.43 | bz96 | please inform |
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| 07:02.07 | purple_cow | huh. trunk/tools/bzedit? |
| 07:02.19 | purple_cow | looks like something old and dead |
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| 11:49.25 | daxxar | Meep! |
| 11:49.29 | daxxar | Don't evaluate me :S |
| 11:49.37 | daxxar | (or well, please do ;) |
| 11:50.00 | Manu | are you a student? :) |
| 11:50.18 | daxxar | Yes. ;-) |
| 11:50.26 | Manu | what application= |
| 11:50.28 | Manu | ? |
| 11:50.39 | daxxar | Headless AI agent, Jørgen P. Tjernø |
| 11:51.51 | Manu | ops.. you have a mentor in Thousand Parsec |
| 11:52.01 | daxxar | Huh? |
| 11:52.34 | Manu | have you sent an application to Thousand Parsec Organization? |
| 11:52.54 | daxxar | Yes, I've sent one to BZF and one to TP, but both are marked as "ranking in progress" |
| 11:52.57 | daxxar | (RIP) |
| 11:53.11 | Manu | yes still ranking |
| 11:53.33 | Manu | so you can't see the rank, right? |
| 11:53.41 | daxxar | Right |
| 11:53.50 | Manu | then be patient ;) |
| 11:53.50 | daxxar | What does "you have a mentor" mean, then? I'm not intimately familiar with the GSoC system |
| 11:54.05 | Manu | they'll tell you probably |
| 11:54.15 | Manu | but still you must wait |
| 11:54.27 | daxxar | Hum, okay. *confused* |
| 11:55.13 | *** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@mse1.bowencenter.org) |
| 11:55.37 | daxxar | I have no rush. :-) 11th of april is when 'everything is revealed'? |
| 11:55.47 | Manu | probably yes |
| 11:55.54 | Manu | I only evaluate ;) |
| 11:56.15 | Manu | ah.. robocode |
| 11:56.16 | daxxar | What does that mean? You rank applications? |
| 11:56.22 | *** part/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker) |
| 11:56.29 | Manu | I'm one of the bzflag mentors |
| 11:56.44 | daxxar | Yeah, but please notice the comments from TimRiker and my replies. :-) |
| 11:56.56 | Manu | don't worry :) |
| 11:57.49 | daxxar | Oh well, pack up and head home or to a project meeting. Thanks for taking the time :-) |
| 11:59.07 | brlcad | daxxar: we're probably only 10% done with the reviews and rankings |
| 11:59.24 | Manu | hi brlcad :) |
| 11:59.24 | brlcad | lots of reading and commenting :) |
| 11:59.27 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@kotnet-149.kulnet.kuleuven.be) |
| 11:59.32 | brlcad | buenos dias Manu :) |
| 11:59.35 | Manu | yes.. too busy reading :( |
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| 12:28.10 | daxxar | brlcad: Ah, yes, I wasn't expecting you to be anywhere done already. I am just curious. ;-) |
| 12:28.11 | daxxar | s/anywhere/& near/ |
| 12:29.19 | Manu | SportChick can't compute, SportChick is a woman so a woman can't compute ;) |
| 12:30.24 | SportChick | ahem |
| 12:30.35 | SportChick | brlcad: kick that guy, would ya? :p |
| 12:31.31 | ts | hi folks ;) |
| 12:33.48 | Manu | SportChick: it's basic logic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism |
| 12:34.46 | SportChick | Manu: I'm well aware of "logic" :p |
| 12:35.46 | ts | 1+1=0 :D |
| 12:35.52 | KTL | :D |
| 12:35.58 | ts | It's true |
| 12:36.07 | ts | 1+1 can really be 0 |
| 12:36.51 | Manu | ts: of course.. using the Intel cpu ;) |
| 12:37.04 | ts | Manu: Noo..linear algebra |
| 12:37.11 | Manu | I knew ;) |
| 12:40.40 | KTL | ah no more cvs but svn now? ... but it remains in sourceforge? |
| 12:40.43 | ts | Manu: Do I have to do a new checkout or can I re-use my old one? |
| 12:40.56 | ts | once migration is finished |
| 12:45.56 | brlcad | purple_cow: particular reason for all modules in a trunk vs one trunk per module? or just a coin flip? |
| 12:48.27 | brlcad | given bz has multiple disjoint projects, it would seem the corrollary would be trunk/tags/branchs per project |
| 12:50.25 | Dessy | lol |
| 12:50.33 | KTL | lol |
| 12:51.12 | SportChick | -e |
| 12:51.24 | Manu | :) |
| 12:52.43 | blast007 | :) |
| 12:52.56 | Manu | :) |
| 13:05.51 | RatOmeter | must be some bad air in here |
| 13:12.32 | Epyon | brlcad, are you here? |
| 13:12.58 | brlcad | nope |
| 13:13.19 | Epyon | brlcad, too bad, tell me when you will be :) |
| 13:13.27 | brlcad | :) |
| 13:13.49 | Epyon | brlcad is everywhere? xD |
| 13:13.50 | KTL | omnipresent probably |
| 13:14.00 | Epyon | KTL, just what I thought :P |
| 13:14.01 | brlcad | or a figment of your imaginations |
| 13:14.13 | KTL | a ghost ... |
| 13:14.15 | SportChick | Epyon: if you want to get brlcad's attention, just offer him sushi :D |
| 13:14.22 | Epyon | hmm, sushi |
| 13:14.23 | brlcad | mm.. |
| 13:14.28 | KTL | food and women |
| 13:14.42 | Epyon | Don't know any sushi bar around here... |
| 13:15.03 | Epyon | But I'm quite popular with the ladies, so the second one may be attainable :P |
| 13:15.39 | KTL | not sure if the women will fall for a figment of _your_ imaginations |
| 13:15.40 | brlcad | probably could offer me code, food, or women and get something out of me :) |
| 13:15.58 | brlcad | hm, probably in that order too :) |
| 13:16.23 | Epyon | brlcad, I'll probably go for code, at least until they find a way to send non-resoluted women or food through e-mail :P |
| 13:16.55 | KTL | beam me the saucages |
| 13:17.40 | Epyon | I wonder what sociological implications would it have if they invented a teleporter but it would work only with women :| |
| 13:18.17 | KTL | we could eat them? |
| 13:18.18 | RatOmeter | one way would be nice |
| 13:18.59 | KTL | with clothes on? |
| 13:21.24 | Epyon | KD-trees? |
| 13:22.16 | Epyon | 8| |
| 13:22.34 | KTL | but maybe it will help me find the subject in the book :D |
| 13:22.42 | Epyon | KTL, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kd_tree |
| 13:23.03 | KTL | ow cool they are not equal sized |
| 13:23.08 | Epyon | There's also a great book with such algos, "Computational Geometry) |
| 13:23.15 | Epyon | KTL, that's the whole point :) |
| 13:23.59 | KTL | myes, with equal partitioning i could only hope that my vertices would be nicely divided |
| 13:24.46 | KTL | but i also have to take care of all blocks between the 3 points of a triangle |
| 13:30.23 | Epyon | KTL, kd-trees aren't so scary as they look like, but if implemented well, they can realy boost your computation speed. |
| 13:32.17 | Epyon | AFAIR, they have O(n log n) computation speed, and O(n sqrt(n)) point-group query time |
| 13:32.21 | KTL | can't find anything about it in my book (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1568812698.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg), can't find the equal sized blocks even |
| 13:33.16 | KTL | my main plan was not to have to iterate all existing triangles to know if one intersects my beam |
| 13:33.56 | Epyon | Equal sized were Octtrees AFAIK? |
| 13:38.05 | Epyon | Yup, Octtrees - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octree |
| 13:38.45 | KTL | if i would divide my space in 2 every time, then at each node i could divide my triangles in the left, right, and overlapping triangles |
| 13:39.08 | KTL | and every time i divide i should use the next dimension |
| 13:56.10 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 13:57.11 | brlcad | howdy Quol |
| 13:57.51 | Quol | hey there brlcad - how are ya? |
| 13:57.58 | brlcad | too busy |
| 13:58.05 | brlcad | a bit stressed overall |
| 13:58.07 | brlcad | but good ;) |
| 13:58.12 | brlcad | how 'bout the Q? |
| 13:58.16 | Quol | heh - glad to hear it |
| 13:58.31 | Quol | me - I am sick as a dog - got something bad - this is day #2 |
| 13:59.05 | Quol | got the "fever shakes"/aches/dizzyness when I stand up - ya, fun stuff |
| 13:59.47 | brlcad | eek |
| 14:00.15 | Quol | so I just can't sleep anymore, so thought I would work on some stuff/IRC for a little :) |
| 14:00.15 | Quol | lol - thanks :) |
| 14:00.22 | brlcad | wanna set up a server? :) |
| 14:00.46 | Quol | what server? you got another one? |
| 14:00.56 | brlcad | yeah, need to replicate over |
| 14:01.15 | Quol | what happened to your other one? you moving it? |
| 14:01.23 | brlcad | nope, still have/keeping it |
| 14:01.37 | Quol | ahh - so the learner man will have 2 - |
| 14:01.39 | brlcad | just to help work on redundancy and load balancing |
| 14:01.55 | Quol | that's cool/nce of ya |
| 14:01.57 | brlcad | and lower ping times for the .eu folks |
| 14:02.02 | Quol | where is it |
| 14:02.03 | Quol | ? |
| 14:02.08 | brlcad | in germany |
| 14:02.44 | Quol | will it just be bzfs's - or will it do other "core" stuff? |
| 14:03.00 | Quol | like list server backup or something like that |
| 14:03.44 | brlcad | other stuff too |
| 14:03.58 | brlcad | could do our initial list server replication |
| 14:04.14 | brlcad | intend to replicate the filesystem and all accounts |
| 14:04.26 | brlcad | have still to decide what to do for the web hosts |
| 14:04.37 | Quol | ahh - neat. mysql replication? |
| 14:04.43 | Quol | and rsync? |
| 14:04.44 | *** join/#bzflag zee653 (i=c395d7dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-f52d626d94e5538f) |
| 14:05.20 | brlcad | yeah, something like that .. mostly all still tbd |
| 14:05.43 | brlcad | rsync at a minimum |
| 14:06.14 | Quol | ya - if it's just filestuf - rsync works great |
| 14:06.42 | Quol | the new one freebsd also? |
| 14:06.50 | brlcad | there's potential to round-robin the DNS .. but that sounds like just asking for issues since it'd be trans-continental |
| 14:08.01 | brlcad | an upgraded freebsd, something not so ancient :) |
| 14:08.44 | brlcad | though I have been weighing the merit of having it be heterogenous for testing purposes .. |
| 14:08.58 | *** join/#bzflag bz63 (n=dce224be@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:09.09 | Quol | is it a real/physical server - or a virtual/VPS? |
| 14:09.11 | brlcad | though that will require rewriting a lot of the access, security, and other scripts set up for monitoring/activity |
| 14:09.27 | brlcad | real -- full dedicated host |
| 14:09.55 | Quol | ya - I remember I had to rewrite some of my stuff alittle when moving from linux to freebsd - but it was minimal |
| 14:09.57 | brlcad | cummulatively, have over 3TB/month to spare now |
| 14:10.28 | Quol | wow - that's nice |
| 14:10.48 | brlcad | that should be something like 12MBit sustained 24/7? |
| 14:11.01 | Quol | ya - should be enough :) |
| 14:11.14 | brlcad | though with replication and other activity, probably cuts it down a couple Mbit/month |
| 14:11.24 | Quol | I peak up to 1Mb, but mostly stay in the 200Kb range |
| 14:12.14 | brlcad | over last 30 days, let's see... |
| 14:12.20 | Quol | I would guess that the replication shouldn't effect too much - once it is setup and insync. the changesets sent over should be small? rsync is pretty good about that |
| 14:13.14 | brlcad | .bz averaged about 288kbps and peaked at 1168kbps |
| 14:14.08 | brlcad | it's spiked to 2+M a few times, but not recently |
| 14:14.30 | brlcad | yeah, not so sure .. depends whatall is replicated |
| 14:14.40 | brlcad | the predominance of activity is logging |
| 14:15.55 | Quol | that's a fairly busy server.... |
| 14:16.03 | brlcad | the webserver rollers over a log for m.b.o a couple times a day .. those alone accumulate about 20-50MB/day |
| 14:16.41 | brlcad | mysql is similar, though less logging-centric |
| 14:18.01 | Quol | ya - but that 50MB will go down to 2MB over the wire - text files compress real nice... |
| 14:18.53 | brlcad | yeah, they're bzipped locally otherwise the disks fill up in a matter of a couple weeks |
| 14:19.29 | Quol | yup - I know that one... |
| 14:19.55 | Quol | last week I was wondering what was taking up 64GB of space - all my backups of my logs |
| 14:20.03 | Quol | got rid of some of those :) |
| 14:20.34 | Quol | I had 2 drives fail on me 2 weeks ago - that was fun...glad I had a hotspare in that array of mine :) |
| 14:22.24 | brlcad | good stuff :) |
| 14:23.06 | brlcad | fortunately, .bz already rsyncs the entire drive offsite weekly .. and there's been no hardware failures yet |
| 14:23.09 | brlcad | *crosses fingers* |
| 14:23.16 | brlcad | more the reason for the replication/failover :) |
| 14:23.38 | Quol | ya - and try and find a 120GB SATA drive now....it's impossible |
| 14:23.47 | Quol | had to buy 2 x 250GB SATA |
| 14:24.27 | Quol | to replace them, so know I have half of those drives completely unused - becuase of the array (it was buiilt with 120 gigger) |
| 14:24.53 | Quol | oh well - if I ever re-install, I can reclaim the space |
| 14:28.06 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kalen@fl-71-49-1-173.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 14:36.20 | brlcad | :) |
| 14:36.55 | brlcad | i'd just upgrade the disk space on .bz, but they want insane amounts for the upgrade (as a recurring monthly cost) |
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| 14:41.56 | Epyon | brlcad, where are you hosting it? |
| 14:42.53 | brlcad | you mean physically? it's down in florida |
| 14:44.30 | Epyon | I meant what company. |
| 14:44.33 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-5.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 14:44.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 14:44.45 | Epyon | Its VPS? |
| 14:49.58 | *** join/#bzflag xcx425 (i=xpj123@host99.180.219.81.magma-net.pl) |
| 14:50.39 | brlcad | the isp is sagonet |
| 14:52.53 | brlcad | they're in the top 250 in terms of size, maybe top 100, but they'd be near the bottom globally |
| 14:56.59 | Quol | nice lag there JBdiGriz |
| 14:58.37 | JBdiGriz | Be thankful I'm paying any attention at all. ;) |
| 15:00.00 | Quol | lol JBdiGriz |
| 15:03.02 | xcx425 | . |
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| 16:27.30 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 16:28.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah I hadn't taken the time to get all the instructions and take screenshots |
| 16:28.13 | JeffM2501 | I just wanted to frame it out |
| 16:28.13 | JeffM2501 | did the migration finish? |
| 16:28.13 | JeffM2501 | by that I assume no |
| 16:28.13 | Erroneous | aw, I though Tort was just that intuitive ;) |
| 16:28.24 | JeffM2501 | tort svn is way more intuitive then cvs |
| 16:28.37 | Erroneous | I'm gonna guess no too, I didn't see anything from purple_cow indicating otherwise |
| 16:28.44 | ts | yeah |
| 16:28.47 | JeffM2501 | you only have to modify the sourceforge line by a smidge |
| 16:29.08 | JeffM2501 | I'll get it posted today after I can test each method for accuracy |
| 16:29.32 | ts | svn is funny..it gives localized output but the non-ascii chars aren't readable |
| 16:29.52 | ts | meaning escape sequences |
| 16:30.52 | JeffM2501 | we'll have to change the template pages for www.bzflag.org too |
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| 16:32.12 | donny_baker | Erroneous: Yah, i'm doing stuff, but it's not working :p |
| 16:32.20 | Erroneous | heh |
| 16:32.26 | JeffM2501 | then it's working as planed |
| 16:32.58 | donny_baker | lol |
| 16:34.30 | JeffM2501 | there I put a note on the page ;) |
| 16:34.45 | JeffM2501 | I need to see our directory layout before I can write up valid info |
| 16:35.04 | JeffM2501 | as we'll have subdirs for each old module, and the SF instructions will get what was all modules. |
| 16:36.14 | Erroneous | all modules sounds good |
| 16:36.25 | Erroneous | wish there had been a way to do that before :) |
| 16:36.31 | JeffM2501 | some may want that way |
| 16:36.33 | JeffM2501 | some may not |
| 16:36.37 | JeffM2501 | I'll have info on both |
| 16:36.39 | Erroneous | yup |
| 16:36.47 | JeffM2501 | at least it's an option now |
| 16:41.35 | RatOmeter | seperate user account required to edit the wiki? |
| 16:42.02 | RatOmeter | nevermind, answered my question |
| 16:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88.134.210.139) |
| 16:53.06 | purple_cow | brlcad: mostly because that's what cvs2svn does ;-) |
| 16:53.23 | Manu | heh |
| 16:53.33 | purple_cow | I just queued up the migration -- it took a long time overnight to upload the dump |
| 16:55.42 | JeffM2501 | so it's still going? |
| 16:55.45 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88.134.210.139) |
| 16:56.37 | purple_cow | yes |
| 16:56.57 | ts | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:57.15 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 16:57.38 | purple_cow | http://sourceforge.net/project/admin/svn_migration.php?group_id=3248 |
| 16:57.57 | purple_cow | the dump is about a 208M bz2 |
| 16:58.14 | purple_cow | uncompressed about 1.1G, and it creates a 267M archive |
| 17:00.38 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Baronado@207.126.1.7) |
| 17:07.42 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 17:07.44 | Erroneous | pong |
| 17:07.48 | *** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200) |
| 17:07.53 | SportChick | hehe, Erroneous technically wins |
| 17:08.01 | JeffM2501 | I'm betting it was same time |
| 17:08.04 | JeffM2501 | cus on mine I'm first |
| 17:08.10 | JeffM2501 | but no mater |
| 17:08.13 | JeffM2501 | whatcha need? |
| 17:08.16 | Erroneous | you're first on mine too, but I actually said pong :) |
| 17:08.23 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 17:08.27 | SportChick | JeffM2501: you were first, but you didn't say pong :) |
| 17:08.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah, I'm a non-traditonalist |
| 17:09.24 | RatOmeter | heck, SportChick, I say they both lost because you haven't yet said "ping" |
| 17:09.41 | SportChick | RatOmeter: I never said I had to say ping |
| 17:09.44 | purple_cow | looks like it's started committing revisions into the repository |
| 17:10.18 | JeffM2501 | whoot |
| 17:11.36 | Erroneous | purple_cow: I don't suppose you can filter that by commit message? it'd be great to throw out JeffM2501's "go crazy with the cheese whiz" and "put the candle back" commits, for annotate if nothing else |
| 17:12.35 | Erroneous | too scared of screwing up the repo though :) |
| 17:13.28 | ts | heh, saw those 2 commits a lot of times when investigating code |
| 17:15.52 | JeffM2501 | and all ya got outa that was hud markers |
| 17:18.43 | JeffM2501 | what dead files? |
| 17:19.17 | Erroneous | ts: it's a full repository import. any revision can be pulled from svn that can be pulled from cvs. |
| 17:25.03 | ts | JeffM2501: For example bz didn't use automake at the sooner versions, IIRC |
| 17:25.36 | ts | also some directories went to /dev/null |
| 17:27.25 | ts | and wow, svn is a lot faster than cvs (though not all files yet imported) |
| 17:28.03 | JeffM2501 | they are still in history for old tags, so yes they will be moved over |
| 17:28.12 | ruskie | if svn looks faster try git :) |
| 17:28.13 | JeffM2501 | in case somone needs to go BACK to those old versions |
| 17:29.03 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 17:29.04 | JeffM2501 | subversion will be fine |
| 17:29.08 | brlcad | purple_cow: that's curious .. because it's not what their docs recomment :) |
| 17:29.10 | JeffM2501 | SF dosn't offer anything other then subversion |
| 17:29.40 | a_meteorite | oh, is the transfer from cvs to svn done? |
| 17:29.53 | ts | no |
| 17:29.58 | JeffM2501 | what's the topic say? |
| 17:30.00 | ts | it is still running |
| 17:30.05 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 17:30.34 | a_meteorite | my client cuts off the first line of the topic :) |
| 17:30.46 | JeffM2501 | then get a client that dosn't suck ;) |
| 17:32.53 | ts | SportChick: Does irssi also cut the topic off for you? |
| 17:33.17 | SportChick | ts: last words hwere are "CVS is now read-only" |
| 17:33.25 | SportChick | s/hwere/here/ |
| 17:33.41 | ts | Hmm, probably be my theme :/ |
| 17:34.13 | SportChick | ibot: ping |
| 17:34.14 | ibot | pong |
| 17:34.18 | SportChick | odd |
| 17:34.24 | purple_cow | ok, gotta go to work to give a phone interview |
| 17:34.31 | SportChick | cu purple_cow |
| 17:34.41 | purple_cow | it should be finished loading the dump by then, so I'll set up hook scripts when I get there |
| 17:36.08 | ts | SportChick: Heh, with a white, transparent terminal the default theme is not really fun |
| 17:36.08 | *** join/#bzflag ts_ (n=ts@p54B004F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:36.09 | *** join/#bzflag ts_ (n=ts@p54B004F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:40.39 | ts | hrm...not working |
| 17:56.23 | *** join/#bzflag ts_ (n=ts@p54b004f7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:03.51 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host28-221-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 18:08.18 | *** join/#bzflag NTH (n=NTH@host86-131-58-90.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:11.02 | *** join/#bzflag chot (n=81101987@207.250.49.6) |
| 18:12.40 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03davidtrowbridge * r13921 10/trunk/bzflag/ (6 files): Testing, testing. Update docs to say SVN |
| 18:12.58 | JeffM2501 | wheee |
| 18:13.07 | JeffM2501 | I'm doing a checkout now and it seems to be working fine |
| 18:15.35 | donny_baker | curious, it took exactly one hour :) |
| 18:16.02 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13922 10/trunk/bzflag/ideas.txt: openFFA was added, so it dosn't need to be on the list |
| 18:16.08 | JeffM2501 | DAMN, that is fast |
| 18:17.05 | JeffM2501 | CIA likes SVN a lot more then it likes CVS dosn't it? |
| 18:20.29 | JeffM2501 | now how does one get 2.0.x? |
| 18:20.55 | ts | easy |
| 18:20.55 | RatOmeter | Odd. My 2.1.11 client doesn't like the verson of my 2.1.11 bzfs "Incompatible server version BZFS0046" |
| 18:21.08 | purple_cow | svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/ |
| 18:21.12 | JeffM2501 | RatOmeter, were tehy byuilt at the same time? |
| 18:21.20 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok, thanks purple_cow |
| 18:21.22 | ts | aww, purple_cow was faster pasting than me :( |
| 18:21.27 | purple_cow | branches/tags/etc are all just directories in svn |
| 18:21.40 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 18:21.46 | RatOmeter | JeffM2501: I don't know, man. You built it ;) |
| 18:22.03 | JeffM2501 | RatOmeter, there have been changes to the proto since |
| 18:22.11 | RatOmeter | or at least you pointed me to the build |
| 18:22.13 | JeffM2501 | and I'm betting chestal didn't bump the rev |
| 18:22.15 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 18:22.16 | JeffM2501 | then it's bad |
| 18:22.19 | JeffM2501 | make a new one |
| 18:22.24 | RatOmeter | aye |
| 18:22.32 | JeffM2501 | dev code changes ;) |
| 18:22.35 | *** topic/#bzflag by purple_cow -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help || Paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || BZFlag is participating in GSoC: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code || SVN migration finished |
| 18:22.47 | L4m3r | woo! SVN! |
| 18:22.48 | a_meteorite | ~bzcvs |
| 18:22.59 | ibot | bzcvs is, like, http://my.bzflag.org/wiki/index.php/BZFlag_CVS, or cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P bzflag |
| 18:23.00 | RatOmeter | got it. I wasn't about to start biatching ;) |
| 18:23.23 | a_meteorite | ibot: bzsvn is svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 18:23.24 | ibot | a_meteorite: okay |
| 18:23.24 | Erroneous | ibot, no, bzcvs is BZFlag is now using Subversion for source control. See bzsvn. |
| 18:23.26 | ibot | okay, Erroneous |
| 18:23.29 | Erroneous | heh |
| 18:23.45 | a_meteorite | gotta make a wiki page now |
| 18:23.48 | Erroneous | ~a_meteorite++ |
| 18:23.49 | JeffM2501 | we have one |
| 18:23.53 | purple_cow | so brlcad was right, we did get svn in time for soc |
| 18:23.53 | a_meteorite | for SVN? |
| 18:23.55 | JeffM2501 | I'm finishing it now |
| 18:23.56 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:23.58 | a_meteorite | k |
| 18:24.00 | JeffM2501 | your way outa the loop |
| 18:24.03 | JeffM2501 | had it since last night |
| 18:24.06 | donny_baker | yep, Jeff was busy last night |
| 18:24.08 | a_meteorite | ~bz20cvs |
| 18:24.11 | ibot | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag |
| 18:24.14 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 18:24.24 | Erroneous | someone should probably tell ohloh too |
| 18:24.31 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13923 10/trunk/bzflag/src/date/buildDate.cxx: proto was bumped but rev wasn't it can be confusing. |
| 18:24.36 | JeffM2501 | DAMN that is fast |
| 18:24.50 | a_meteorite | ibot: no, bz20cvs is BZFlag is now using Subversion for source control. See bz20svn. |
| 18:24.52 | ibot | a_meteorite: okay |
| 18:25.58 | ts | ~bz20cvs |
| 18:26.00 | ibot | hmm... bz20cvs is BZFlag is now using Subversion for source control. See bz20svn. |
| 18:26.04 | a_meteorite | ibot: bz20svn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/ bzflag |
| 18:26.06 | ibot | a_meteorite: okay |
| 18:26.19 | a_meteorite | ibot: bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 18:26.21 | ibot | ...but bzsvn is already something else... |
| 18:26.29 | a_meteorite | ibot: no, bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 18:26.30 | ibot | okay, a_meteorite |
| 18:27.07 | ts | ibot: no, bz20cvs is <reply> BZFlag is now using Subversion for source control. See bz20svn. |
| 18:27.08 | ibot | ts: okay |
| 18:27.12 | ts | ~bz20cvs |
| 18:27.13 | ibot | BZFlag is now using Subversion for source control. See bz20svn. |
| 18:27.55 | ts | ibot: no, bz20cvs is <reply> BZFlag is now using Subversion for version revision control. See bz20svn. |
| 18:27.57 | ibot | ts: okay |
| 18:28.09 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 18:29.21 | JeffM2501 | wiki is still stubbed, it'll need filling in for the command line stuff, I can do the tort stuff. |
| 18:31.08 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: should probably update the CVS/Compiling forums |
| 18:31.16 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, tools didn't make it? |
| 18:31.33 | JeffM2501 | that can happen later a_meteorite |
| 18:31.38 | a_meteorite | :) |
| 18:32.41 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: nope. should it have? :P |
| 18:32.44 | a_meteorite | ah, you made a post in development |
| 18:32.48 | JeffM2501 | don't see it as a subdir |
| 18:32.50 | purple_cow | it looked really really old |
| 18:33.02 | JeffM2501 | it was newer then bzedit ;) |
| 18:33.18 | JeffM2501 | but no mater, as long as we can get it from cvs |
| 18:33.18 | purple_cow | that's not saying much |
| 18:33.27 | JeffM2501 | it was newer then pybzflag |
| 18:35.13 | purple_cow | is it currently in development? =/ |
| 18:37.03 | JeffM2501 | don't make me ask that question about other subdirs ;) |
| 18:37.05 | JeffM2501 | I don't care |
| 18:37.06 | JeffM2501 | realy |
| 18:37.08 | JeffM2501 | just curious |
| 18:37.12 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 18:37.43 | JeffM2501 | a SoC person may want to look at it for it's map reader since its' lossless |
| 18:37.43 | JeffM2501 | but that'd be about it |
| 18:39.06 | purple_cow | lossless? |
| 18:39.15 | JeffM2501 | it'll hold map objects it dosn't know about |
| 18:39.19 | JeffM2501 | and keep them on a write |
| 18:39.30 | JeffM2501 | bad term |
| 18:39.50 | Erroneous | won't bzedit do that too? |
| 18:39.51 | purple_cow | ah |
| 18:39.54 | JeffM2501 | oh god no |
| 18:40.02 | JeffM2501 | it blows out everything it dosn't know |
| 18:40.07 | Erroneous | except for grouping |
| 18:40.17 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it does |
| 18:40.26 | Erroneous | maybe I thought it was useless, so I didn't check it in :) |
| 18:40.36 | Erroneous | 'cause I never could get grouping working |
| 18:40.50 | JeffM2501 | mine has grouping and instancing support |
| 18:40.58 | JeffM2501 | that part was done and working |
| 18:43.49 | JeffM2501 | whatever floats your boat skip :) |
| 18:44.01 | JeffM2501 | if it's cool, mention it on the wiki |
| 18:44.03 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 18:44.09 | Erroneous | dunno about "cool" |
| 18:44.12 | JeffM2501 | usefull |
| 18:44.14 | Erroneous | but it works for my workflow |
| 18:51.20 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:52.36 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 18:56.43 | *** join/#bzflag tupone_laptop (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 18:56.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone_laptop] by ChanServ |
| 19:01.25 | JeffM2501 | what is the command line command to commit to subversion? |
| 19:01.37 | JeffM2501 | that's all I'm mising on the wiki |
| 19:01.50 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p54998e61.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:01.57 | brlcad | svn commit |
| 19:02.09 | JeffM2501 | will it as for username/pass then? |
| 19:02.47 | purple_cow | yes |
| 19:03.06 | JeffM2501 | thanks |
| 19:03.09 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r13924 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: ws |
| 19:03.17 | Erroneous | hm, it is pretty snappy |
| 19:04.05 | JeffM2501 | isn't it |
| 19:04.16 | brlcad | no longer performs the diff over the wire |
| 19:04.23 | JeffM2501 | wiki is done, but probalby needs cleanup |
| 19:04.24 | JeffM2501 | http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN |
| 19:04.55 | JeffM2501 | I didn't do pictures of tort cus it's just too damned simple :) |
| 19:06.10 | *** join/#bzflag teatree (i=5841ff94@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-1332c4301b9b2511) |
| 19:06.12 | donny_baker | heck, I even figured out TortiseSVN, so I'm sure anyone can |
| 19:06.14 | teatree | hello |
| 19:06.48 | donny_baker | teatree: hi |
| 19:07.35 | teatree | need a mac pro ;) |
| 19:08.22 | Erroneous | woohoo, we can actually mark eol-style now too :) |
| 19:08.29 | brlcad | ~purple_cow++ |
| 19:10.41 | ts | eol? |
| 19:10.47 | brlcad | ~eol |
| 19:10.49 | ibot | well, eol is end-of-line and is a common problem with windows+*nix machines if you intend to xfer files between them. fromdos/todos, available in sysutils, fixes that. |
| 19:11.05 | ts | ah, that |
| 19:11.11 | Manu | :) |
| 19:11.25 | brlcad | at least not on this box |
| 19:11.47 | Erroneous | ts: source tarballs built on unix machines can't be used to build in visual studio, because the line endings of the projects get mutilated when they're checked out |
| 19:11.54 | Erroneous | subversion lets us control that |
| 19:12.58 | Erroneous | probably we can do the inverse with config.h.in and version.h and then mingw will build from windows source checkouts too |
| 19:13.24 | Manu | wow svn is working :) |
| 19:13.27 | purple_cow | brlcad: especially since there are 11 merge-2_1-2_0 tags? :) |
| 19:13.43 | Manu | ~purple_cow++ |
| 19:14.35 | brlcad | purple_cow: yup |
| 19:14.55 | Manu | purple_cow: is the CS version in svn too? |
| 19:15.28 | brlcad | Manu: it should be in the branches dir |
| 19:15.30 | Manu | well I can try it and see :) |
| 19:15.35 | Manu | yep I see :) |
| 19:15.37 | donny_baker | manu: yes, it is there |
| 19:20.00 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r13925 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC71/ (23 files): eol-style -> CRLF for *.vcproj, *.sln |
| 19:22.11 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep) |
| 19:24.08 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 19:24.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:24.22 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r13926 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC8/ (21 files): eol-style -> CRLF for *.vcproj, *.sln |
| 19:25.13 | Legoguy | ok ever since the last anon cvs checkout this morning my sounds have been high pitched (using ALSA) |
| 19:25.23 | Legoguy | v2_0branch |
| 19:25.58 | Legoguy | oh wait is cvs not used anymore? o_O |
| 19:25.58 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r13927 10/trunk/bzflag/ (DEVINFO NEWS): no longer CVS, refer to SVN or be more generic. |
| 19:26.45 | Erroneous | Legoguy: we just migrated to subversion |
| 19:27.58 | Legoguy | so i see |
| 19:28.18 | Legoguy | i’ll try that and see if the regression is still there |
| 19:28.44 | Erroneous | it will be |
| 19:28.56 | Erroneous | talk to whoever made the change, don't remember who it was |
| 19:29.14 | Erroneous | and see if it's actually a problem or if it's now the way it's supposed to be ;) |
| 19:29.28 | Legoguy | wait if i pull the trunk, that’s not 2.0 branch is it |
| 19:29.29 | Legoguy | doh |
| 19:29.39 | Erroneous | ~bz20svn |
| 19:29.42 | ibot | from memory, bz20svn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/ bzflag |
| 19:31.36 | TimRiker | huh? what? someone did the svn migration? |
| 19:31.44 | TimRiker | full history moved etc? |
| 19:32.06 | ts | TimRiker: Yupp, purple_cow did |
| 19:32.41 | a_meteorite | ~purple_cow++ |
| 19:33.48 | Legoguy | tupone_laptop: that’s SUPPOSED to be that high-pitched!? |
| 19:34.13 | tupone_laptop | what ? where? how? |
| 19:34.33 | Legoguy | the SDL sample rate fix |
| 19:34.37 | TimRiker | ~purple_cow++ |
| 19:34.43 | Legoguy | assuming you are “tupy” |
| 19:35.04 | TimRiker | are we going to nuke the cvs tree? ie: get a backup, and open a SF ticket to have it removed? |
| 19:35.19 | ts | Ciao tupone_laptop |
| 19:35.21 | Legoguy | http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/branches/v2_0branch/bzflag/src/platform/SDLMedia.cxx?view=log |
| 19:35.29 | tupone_laptop | hallo ts |
| 19:35.58 | tupone_laptop | what is your question? |
| 19:36.06 | Manu | buonasera tupone_laptop :) |
| 19:36.39 | ts | TimRiker: No idea, for now cvs is read only |
| 19:36.59 | Legoguy | tupone_laptop: after that everything sounds incorrectly high pitched, or maybe the bzflag sound just suck ;/ |
| 19:37.20 | TimRiker | ts: is read only? or should be treated as readonly? |
| 19:37.27 | purple_cow | is |
| 19:37.33 | TimRiker | how? |
| 19:37.38 | ts | acl |
| 19:37.42 | TimRiker | nice |
| 19:38.19 | tupone_laptop | Legoguy, there is no more lowpass on the sound. There were a conversion from 44kHz to 11kHz and then back to 44kHz |
| 19:38.20 | Legoguy | also, am i also supposed to be fetching all the tags when i check out the trunk? that’s what it appears to be doing .. |
| 19:39.12 | donny_baker | legoguy: default is to check out everything |
| 19:39.41 | Legoguy | that’s a lot of historic releases ;o |
| 19:40.15 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-013.ewetel.net) |
| 19:40.34 | ts | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag Rus- (n=53eab424@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:42.22 | Rus-T90 | hi all |
| 19:43.43 | Legoguy | tupone_laptop: so i guess i have to live with it or make some new sounds? ;( |
| 19:46.31 | tupone_laptop | well, I suggest you to try with a player, and then see if you hear them very differently. In case, file a bug or post patches |
| 19:50.08 | Legoguy | tupone_laptop: yeah, aplay <file> plays it as i’m used to hearing |
| 19:50.48 | tupone_laptop | then you know |
| 19:53.51 | Legoguy | you say there used to be a conversion, and it was removed? that’d mean 22.05kHz sounds are being played at 44.1kHz.. |
| 19:54.05 | purple_cow | we really need some new sounds |
| 19:55.17 | ts | true...sound currently is only the bullets and the keyboard.. |
| 19:56.07 | ts | some library for ogg and then good quality sounds and long background music |
| 19:56.14 | purple_cow | well, and the ones we do have sound terrible |
| 19:56.38 | purple_cow | I want 5.1 support and at least 44khz |
| 19:56.48 | Legoguy | 5.1 yes |
| 19:57.12 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r13928 10/trunk/bzflag/misc/ (Makefile.am rebuild-bzflag): remove considerably obsolete rebuild-bzflag script |
| 19:57.17 | ts | also could use some better graphics |
| 19:57.31 | ts | not only engine but also the graphic files itself |
| 19:57.37 | purple_cow | someone needs to fix the changelog builder for svn |
| 19:57.41 | Legoguy | background music shouldn’t be forced upon the user. to me how well i play depends on what mood i’m in and what music i play |
| 19:59.19 | Legoguy | back a year or 2 ago i made a bzflag sound pack that was composed of some sounds from CFS2 .. which are undoubtedly copyright MS, so .. |
| 19:59.29 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r13929 10/trunk/bzflag/ (7 files in 5 dirs): more CVS references, poof |
| 19:59.30 | ts | Who wrote something about forcing? |
| 20:00.21 | Legoguy | err no one, sorry, but even including long/looping background music might not be a good idea :P |
| 20:02.10 | Legoguy | i’d be willing to make some nice sounds but where on Earth can one go, freely, to record tank shells and explosions.. |
| 20:02.45 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r13930 10/trunk/bzflag/BZFlag.xcode/project.pbxproj: don't include svn dirs along with resources |
| 20:03.23 | Legoguy | it’s not often they blow up a tank in training .. |
| 20:05.34 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r13931 10/trunk/bzflag/misc/ (Makefile.am snap.sh): snapshot script is no longer useful as it's written for cvs, someone(tm) should write a new generic one for svn sometime. |
| 20:08.08 | *** join/#bzflag Destroyer (n=Destroye@88.134.210.139) |
| 20:09.22 | RatOmeter | strange. I've been tweaking a map and I can consistently get myself kicked "wrong end shots detected." by rapidly firing GM. No GM vars changed, _shotSpeed is set to 500 |
| 20:09.30 | *** part/#bzflag Destroyer (n=Destroye@88.134.210.139) |
| 20:09.42 | ts | 500? |
| 20:09.47 | RatOmeter | bzfs 2.0.8, running client on the same machine as the server |
| 20:09.53 | RatOmeter | yeah, 500. Excessive? |
| 20:10.11 | Erroneous | RatOmeter: known bug, patches welcome |
| 20:10.12 | *** join/#bzflag Destroyer (n=Destroye@88.134.210.139) |
| 20:10.15 | ts | a little bit faster than the standard shot |
| 20:10.24 | RatOmeter | right, I like'm fast ;) |
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| 20:11.11 | RatOmeter | Erroneous: this one have a bug report? |
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| 20:11.47 | Inferno | hello |
| 20:12.27 | JeffM2501 | hello |
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| 20:13.47 | Erroneous | RatOmeter: probably |
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| 20:14.12 | inferno | I guess /quit isn't what I wanted |
| 20:15.40 | JeffM2501 | unless you wanted to quit |
| 20:15.43 | inferno | tried to close one of the anoying tabs on my irc client |
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| 20:19.02 | JeffM2501 | whee |
| 20:28.39 | KTL | virtual storm |
| 20:30.02 | JeffM2501 | just a split |
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| 20:30.18 | Erroneous | whee |
| 20:30.19 | KTL | wb |
| 20:30.44 | inferno | ts, lol |
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| 20:31.22 | inferno | is it safe to assume that the your systems milliseconds would be the same as anothers |
| 20:31.22 | inferno | like no matter the timezone |
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| 20:31.22 | inferno | hey temp |
| 20:31.22 | a_meteorite | no |
| 20:31.22 | inferno | how come? |
| 20:31.22 | a_meteorite | people don't always set their time right |
| 20:31.22 | a_meteorite | down to the millisecond |
| 20:31.23 | a_meteorite | and not everyone uses ntp |
| 20:31.23 | Erroneous | inferno: absolute time or deltas? within what tolerance? |
| 20:31.23 | inferno | uh, deltas I think |
| 20:31.23 | inferno | just I'm making a perl and javascript game |
| 20:31.23 | inferno | and trying to find a way to sync |
| 20:31.24 | Erroneous | one ms is one ms. most RTCs are accurate to far less than that. fetching the times incurs different overheads on different machines though; some os' have several different ways with different tolerances |
| 20:31.24 | inferno | I guess that idea is busted :P |
| 20:31.24 | Erroneous | and this is neither #perl nor #javascript :P |
| 20:31.24 | inferno | true |
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| 21:05.09 | CIA-17 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r13932 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/plugin_utils/PluginConfig.cpp: Revert change - unintentionally commited |
| 21:05.46 | Thumper_ | so can we use SSH keys for commits like we used to be able to do with CVS? |
| 21:06.25 | JeffM2501 | the svn client should just be able to remember your auth for you |
| 21:06.29 | JeffM2501 | the tort one can |
| 21:06.38 | JeffM2501 | it dos't use ssh |
| 21:06.41 | JeffM2501 | it uses https |
| 21:06.45 | TimRiker | course that's a security concern in and of itself. |
| 21:07.01 | Thumper_ | yeah I'd rather type the password than save it somewhere :) |
| 21:07.02 | TimRiker | it _can_ use ssh. but most sites don't set it up that way. |
| 21:07.11 | JeffM2501 | your call |
| 21:07.39 | JeffM2501 | so you don't store your bzbb password in a cookie ether? |
| 21:08.29 | TimRiker | well, the svn password is stored in _plain text_ |
| 21:08.33 | Thumper_ | yeah I do :) but I consider commit access more important than my bzid pwd |
| 21:08.38 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:08.41 | inferno | hey thumper |
| 21:08.57 | JeffM2501 | I do see why google uses a difrent password for svn then they do for logins tho |
| 21:08.58 | TimRiker | as it's also your shell password on SF. |
| 21:09.03 | JeffM2501 | yeah that reason |
| 21:09.13 | Thumper_ | inferno: hi |
| 21:09.22 | JeffM2501 | they should let you set a seperate svn password if you want |
| 21:09.32 | TimRiker | it's not even trivially encoded like cvs did. it's just plain text. |
| 21:09.39 | JeffM2501 | patches welcome |
| 21:10.03 | TimRiker | no patches required. svn support access over ssh. just that SF does not enable it. |
| 21:10.12 | Thumper_ | I really like the CVS via SSH key access for security :) ohwell |
| 21:10.27 | JeffM2501 | could you not make it at lest store it encrypted for non ssh? |
| 21:10.29 | TimRiker | Thumper_: I agree. svn can use the same style. |
| 21:11.19 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: encrypted? and what decrypts it? it should at least do cvs style encoding IMHO. |
| 21:11.25 | JeffM2501 | that's one reason I didn't think you'd ever agree to going to svn, and why it was such a suprise when you did :) |
| 21:11.43 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, that's what I mean, whatever cvs does |
| 21:11.51 | TimRiker | svn just adds more useful patch/merge management. so that's why I like it. |
| 21:11.57 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 21:11.59 | JeffM2501 | bin difs :) |
| 21:12.10 | TimRiker | but I'd use svn over ssh if SF allowed it. |
| 21:12.24 | JeffM2501 | wonder if anyone has asked em to set that up |
| 21:12.31 | TimRiker | I did, yeah. |
| 21:12.36 | TimRiker | and they said no. |
| 21:12.39 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 21:12.42 | Thumper_ | me2 - since they allowed it for CVS... I'm confused why they don't for svn too |
| 21:12.47 | JeffM2501 | well there are other hosts :) |
| 21:12.55 | JeffM2501 | Thumper_, totaly difrent setup |
| 21:12.59 | TimRiker | the other option is ssl client certs. which they also said no to. |
| 21:13.00 | JeffM2501 | for them at least |
| 21:13.22 | JeffM2501 | after the CVS fiasco I be they are gunshy |
| 21:13.36 | TimRiker | exactly. |
| 21:13.52 | JeffM2501 | wonder what google code offers |
| 21:15.32 | ts | TimRiker: On some platforms the svn password is *not* stored in plain-text |
| 21:16.15 | TimRiker | http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#plaintext-passwords |
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| 21:16.17 | ts | instead it is put encrypted inside a database |
| 21:17.13 | ts | TimRiker: http://subversion.tigris.org/svn_1.4_releasenotes.html : OS X Keychain support (client) |
| 21:17.22 | TimRiker | they will take a cvs like encode patch. so even they say "patches welcome" :) |
| 21:17.58 | TimRiker | ts: nice. |
| 21:17.58 | JeffM2501 | did they use those EXACT words? |
| 21:18.22 | TimRiker | "if you're interested, send patches to the dev@ list." |
| 21:18.35 | JeffM2501 | that is much more nice then "patches welcome" |
| 21:18.39 | TimRiker | close enough. :) |
| 21:18.40 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't say "go away" |
| 21:18.51 | JeffM2501 | I jus don't like the tone it conveys |
| 21:19.07 | TimRiker | aww... I'm open to other short phrases. |
| 21:19.19 | ts | TimRiker: Keychain is basically an API to store passwords encrypted. The database the data gets into is saved with a master password. If the master password is the same as the user password, then the necessary information is decrypted instantly |
| 21:19.26 | TimRiker | "patch please"? |
| 21:19.28 | JeffM2501 | sounds good, code it up |
| 21:19.34 | a_temp_dist | "Eat at Joes" |
| 21:19.34 | TimRiker | "show me the code" ? |
| 21:19.44 | TimRiker | "use the source, luke" ? |
| 21:19.45 | JeffM2501 | all of those are demanding in some way |
| 21:20.08 | JeffM2501 | a more suportive, "hey that is a good idea, would you like to help by implementing it" |
| 21:20.08 | TimRiker | and "code it up" is not? |
| 21:20.17 | JeffM2501 | I dont' even like code it up |
| 21:20.21 | JeffM2501 | but you said short |
| 21:20.31 | Thumper_ | "no" :) |
| 21:20.36 | Thumper_ | is short |
| 21:20.47 | JeffM2501 | short means you don't have time to dedicate to the user, and are basicly blowing them off :) |
| 21:21.04 | TimRiker | true. but "patches welcome" looks downright benevolent next to "no". :) |
| 21:21.52 | L4m3r | you could always expand it to "We'd rather spend the time adding features that everyone wants, instead of catering to you. If you want it that badly, you're all over it!" |
| 21:22.03 | L4m3r | ;) |
| 21:22.45 | JeffM2501 | THAT is what PW realy says |
| 21:23.25 | JeffM2501 | it's more of a "go off and do it" not a "work with us to make it better" |
| 21:24.02 | inferno | TimRiker, is Trepan ur alias or is he someone else? |
| 21:24.08 | JeffM2501 | that is somone else |
| 21:24.22 | JeffM2501 | very much someone else |
| 21:24.28 | L4m3r | yeah, hahaha |
| 21:24.47 | JeffM2501 | posibly even the anti-tim |
| 21:24.51 | L4m3r | two very different people ;) |
| 21:25.08 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: lol, I was thinking the same thing |
| 21:25.26 | *** part/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Baronado@207.126.1.7) |
| 21:26.33 | JeffM2501 | they would explode if they came in contact |
| 21:28.25 | Bz_Win | like matter and anti-matter? :p |
| 21:28.31 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 21:28.54 | ts | Is that why trepan left? |
| 21:29.00 | L4m3r | like exceedingly polite and... er, nevermind |
| 21:29.01 | Bz_Win | he blew up? |
| 21:29.23 | JeffM2501 | treapan left for a number of reasons, most of it was due to the comunity |
| 21:29.38 | L4m3r | and ta-spring? |
| 21:29.41 | Bz_Win | flexble |
| 21:29.46 | ts | What was with the community? |
| 21:29.59 | inferno | lol, I was just about to menchin spring |
| 21:30.04 | JeffM2501 | my opinion is that spring jsut fit what he wanted better |
| 21:30.09 | inferno | trying to compile it on linux :P |
| 21:30.13 | Bz_Win | menchin?! |
| 21:30.19 | JeffM2501 | more interest, better comunity |
| 21:30.20 | inferno | yeh... |
| 21:30.26 | JeffM2501 | ts, our players and mapers |
| 21:30.45 | ts | He didn't really offer something playable to them |
| 21:30.46 | inferno | we need more mappers for bz |
| 21:30.50 | JeffM2501 | they are not the most "techincal" people |
| 21:30.58 | JeffM2501 | ts, 2.0 isn't playable? |
| 21:30.58 | inferno | he helped me alot! |
| 21:31.12 | inferno | gave me advice on getting started with map making |
| 21:31.16 | Bz_Win | inferno: your welcome to look thru the 1000's of wonderful maps made by DW or sid6.7 |
| 21:31.17 | JeffM2501 | ts, do not understimate his involvement |
| 21:31.18 | ts | JeffM2501: No, I mean basically the mesh stuff |
| 21:31.22 | L4m3r | trepan seemed pretty peeved when he checked in all that cool drawinfo stuff only to have Louman say he wasn't going to be able to learn how to use any of it |
| 21:31.25 | JeffM2501 | ts, that's what I mean |
| 21:31.30 | ts | with the newbie mappers |
| 21:31.32 | JeffM2501 | 2.0 was meshes |
| 21:31.40 | JeffM2501 | you can't sugar coat meshes |
| 21:31.43 | JeffM2501 | they are what they are |
| 21:31.48 | JeffM2501 | you ether get them or you dont |
| 21:31.51 | JeffM2501 | louman got them |
| 21:31.54 | JeffM2501 | and look at his maps |
| 21:32.04 | inferno | louman isn't the only one |
| 21:32.12 | inferno | what about tedius |
| 21:32.16 | a_meteorite | yet why louman's maps aren't always at the top of the list beats me... |
| 21:32.18 | JeffM2501 | the frustration was that our "typical" maper just wants to push boxes around, and has no desire to learn modeling |
| 21:32.25 | JeffM2501 | where every quake maper has to be a modler too |
| 21:32.28 | a_meteorite | 1.x maps rule the list :) |
| 21:32.36 | Bz_Win | yay :) |
| 21:32.37 | ts | JeffM2501: Louman's maps look great but only 2 of them have been playable, IMHO |
| 21:32.39 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, a map is not the only component of a good game. |
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| 21:32.49 | L4m3r | I get the geometry and UV mapping. normals, lighting, and such are way beyond me |
| 21:32.51 | JeffM2501 | ts, that is not trepans fault |
| 21:33.08 | ts | not to offend anyone but it didn't fit what players want |
| 21:33.16 | lodxcol | yeah, LouMan's maps LOOK good, but they're not exactly playable |
| 21:33.20 | ts | JeffM2501: True |
| 21:33.23 | JeffM2501 | to be brutaly honest,few of our mapers would make it in the quake/UT worlds |
| 21:33.23 | L4m3r | trepan's thing was that none of us mere mortals seem to be able to get our heads around drawinfos :) |
| 21:33.35 | a_meteorite | I think Louman would |
| 21:33.38 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, that's not even done |
| 21:33.42 | L4m3r | none who are interested in mapping, anyway |
| 21:33.44 | JeffM2501 | so it shouldn't even be considerrted |
| 21:33.50 | JeffM2501 | it's just plain busted |
| 21:34.00 | L4m3r | A-D seems to be working at it though |
| 21:34.02 | ts | L4m3r: The drawinfo stuff is the newest thing he made. Basically almost no one understood it |
| 21:34.10 | L4m3r | yeah, that's my point |
| 21:34.17 | JeffM2501 | his other stuff is done as well as could be for our format |
| 21:34.31 | JeffM2501 | and does work very well given our codebase and "engine" |
| 21:34.49 | L4m3r | love the quotes, heh |
| 21:34.52 | JeffM2501 | we put a lot of limits on what he could do with our "must run on crud hardware" requirement |
| 21:35.06 | purple_cow | so, has svn broken yet? |
| 21:35.09 | JeffM2501 | it's a disservice to real engines to call our code an engine |
| 21:35.16 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, not that I've seen |
| 21:35.16 | L4m3r | yeah. I think that's also a factor in the lack of compatibility with louman's stuff |
| 21:35.33 | L4m3r | if you don't use texturing, you're pretty much screwed. ;) |
| 21:35.33 | JeffM2501 | compatability? |
| 21:35.35 | JeffM2501 | with what? |
| 21:35.36 | inferno | Jeff, why do you even support bz when you think it sucks |
| 21:35.41 | L4m3r | with crappy hardware |
| 21:35.47 | L4m3r | er |
| 21:35.49 | L4m3r | wtf |
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| 21:35.49 | JeffM2501 | inferno, cus I want to see it better |
| 21:35.54 | JeffM2501 | and the people |
| 21:35.59 | L4m3r | s/compatibiliy/popularity/ |
| 21:36.04 | JeffM2501 | it was great when I started on it :) |
| 21:36.08 | Bz_Win | Aww, I wanted to anwser the better thing for you :p |
| 21:36.19 | inferno | great...so it got worse :; |
| 21:36.27 | JeffM2501 | inferno, no, it stayed the same |
| 21:36.32 | JeffM2501 | and the world passed it by |
| 21:36.44 | JeffM2501 | do you still play candyland as a boad game? |
| 21:36.52 | inferno | uh, what's that |
| 21:36.53 | Erroneous | heck yeah |
| 21:36.56 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:36.57 | L4m3r | I do! |
| 21:37.06 | purple_cow | candyland is almost as good as snakes and ladders |
| 21:37.17 | L4m3r | well, I don't, but the stoners down the hall probably do that when Spongebob isn't on :P |
| 21:37.24 | inferno | I think I've seen my siblings play that |
| 21:37.41 | Bz_Win | what is this sibling you speak of? |
| 21:37.47 | L4m3r | which came first, snakes and aldders or chutes and ladders? |
| 21:37.52 | JeffM2501 | people grow out of games that stay stagnant |
| 21:37.57 | L4m3r | ladders* |
| 21:38.07 | L4m3r | damn I can't type for beans today |
| 21:38.08 | inferno | yeh, we need tilting now |
| 21:38.08 | Epyon | This mapping discussion is... quite interesting :) |
| 21:38.20 | Bz_Win | inferno: NO |
| 21:38.22 | inferno | and rotating turrts |
| 21:38.22 | JeffM2501 | yeah well lack of tools was one part of it |
| 21:38.22 | Bz_Win | n:p |
| 21:38.23 | L4m3r | someone should make a candyland map |
| 21:38.24 | JeffM2501 | that is for sure |
| 21:38.28 | L4m3r | :D |
| 21:38.31 | Bz_Win | ugh...n disease |
| 21:38.36 | JeffM2501 | our mapers NEED a graphical tool, that I can see now |
| 21:38.43 | JeffM2501 | cus they arn't willing to learn the harder tools |
| 21:38.45 | inferno | Bz_Win, who the heck are you |
| 21:38.45 | *** join/#bzflag Hannibal (n=Hannibal@pool-71-113-209-249.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:38.57 | a_meteorite | no, candyland beats snakes and ladders head over heels |
| 21:39.26 | JeffM2501 | tehincaly you can code quake maps by hand, but noone does |
| 21:39.37 | JeffM2501 | you use worldforge, radiant, etc... |
| 21:39.37 | Erroneous | noone? |
| 21:39.48 | JeffM2501 | no body |
| 21:39.50 | JeffM2501 | that I know of |
| 21:40.02 | L4m3r | inferno: he is known as Win Xp, and he's also a skilled modeller... |
| 21:40.13 | JeffM2501 | tweak, sure |
| 21:40.16 | JeffM2501 | but make from scratch? |
| 21:40.17 | a_meteorite | and a creative 1.x mapper |
| 21:40.22 | inferno | yeh, I'm not new to the known modellers |
| 21:40.27 | Erroneous | hmm, good point :0 |
| 21:40.35 | JeffM2501 | when 2.0 hit, there was nothin |
| 21:40.39 | Bz_Win | who has the time? |
| 21:40.44 | a_meteorite | 2:40 |
| 21:40.47 | Bz_Win | to code massive maps by hand* |
| 21:41.04 | Epyon | 23:40 |
| 21:41.06 | a_meteorite | I code 1.x maps by hand, but that's not new or skilled |
| 21:41.08 | JeffM2501 | exactly, as complexity increases.... |
| 21:41.12 | inferno | I USED to code massive maps by hand |
| 21:41.12 | L4m3r | Bz_Win: I DO! :D |
| 21:41.17 | inferno | like that one castle one |
| 21:41.21 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: sure there was, we had the obj converter |
| 21:41.24 | JeffM2501 | now what louman is showing is our gameplay is so simple, complex maps hurt |
| 21:41.28 | Erroneous | after you have the models in, it's all just tweaking |
| 21:41.29 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, that there was |
| 21:41.36 | JeffM2501 | few people got that ;) |
| 21:41.38 | Bz_Win | L4m3r: Pft |
| 21:41.41 | L4m3r | but using grouping to excess makes a low-poly map into a lag monster :( |
| 21:41.45 | a_meteorite | has anyone even seen louman? |
| 21:41.46 | Epyon | How about writing a MaxScript exporter for Max? |
| 21:41.57 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 21:41.58 | inferno | you guys talk like bz has died lol |
| 21:42.07 | Bz_Win | it has |
| 21:42.11 | a_meteorite | inferno: and only you suggest it |
| 21:42.13 | Bz_Win | did you see the forum thread? :p |
| 21:42.13 | JeffM2501 | Epyon, few of our audience can afford that. |
| 21:42.20 | JeffM2501 | and we need custom non model stuff |
| 21:42.26 | L4m3r | is bz dead? check wikipedia! |
| 21:42.26 | inferno | what thread? |
| 21:42.30 | Epyon | But many people use Max anyway ;] |
| 21:42.34 | Erroneous | L4m3r: heh |
| 21:42.42 | JeffM2501 | we are not in the habbit of suporting stolen software |
| 21:42.57 | Bz_Win | Blender! |
| 21:42.58 | JeffM2501 | we respect software copyright, as that is the only thing keepiing US from being stolen |
| 21:43.16 | JeffM2501 | Bz_Win, we have a blender solution, it's not used by many |
| 21:43.17 | L4m3r | no, apparently the player base has tripled in the last six months, despite the fact that tim riker is deceased. |
| 21:43.25 | purple_cow | plus some of can eat due to commercial software |
| 21:43.31 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 21:43.50 | TimRiker | hmm trepan + timriker. sounds like a star trek episode to me. |
| 21:43.52 | Bz_Win | did he die when you were talking to him ealier? :p |
| 21:43.54 | Epyon | JeffM2501, pro's use Max, so don't be surprised you don't get pro material... :P |
| 21:43.54 | L4m3r | besides, it's nice to support FOSS ;) |
| 21:44.01 | Erroneous | heh, tuvix! |
| 21:44.08 | JeffM2501 | we won't get pro's |
| 21:44.09 | TimRiker | I'm deceased? |
| 21:44.12 | KTL | could there be irc channels with only dead people logged in 8x |
| 21:44.14 | JeffM2501 | we get the leftovers from quake |
| 21:44.22 | L4m3r | TimRiker: did you hear about wikipedia and Sinbad? |
| 21:44.32 | TimRiker | nope. what did I miss? |
| 21:44.37 | Epyon | JeffM2501, why not change that? |
| 21:44.45 | L4m3r | wikipedia had erroneously claimed he was dead. |
| 21:44.54 | JeffM2501 | Epyon, I'd like to, but that's a larger project and takes a lot of time :) |
| 21:44.55 | Bz_Win | rofl |
| 21:44.56 | Erroneous | hey, don't blame it on me, L4m3r :) |
| 21:45.00 | L4m3r | heh |
| 21:45.00 | JeffM2501 | but still we can't base our maping on that |
| 21:45.12 | Epyon | JeffM2501, what is a larger project? |
| 21:45.13 | JeffM2501 | that is a poor design choice |
| 21:45.31 | Epyon | JeffM2501, gathering people you mean? |
| 21:45.32 | JeffM2501 | Epyon, making bzflag more attractive to a larger audience |
| 21:45.34 | L4m3r | and someone also wrote something about the elephant population tripling in the last six month on some relevant page |
| 21:45.36 | inferno | now that you menchin it, I'm going to download quake and try it out |
| 21:45.52 | L4m3r | inferno: it's "mention" |
| 21:45.58 | JeffM2501 | even I Know that one |
| 21:45.59 | L4m3r | you've misspelled it twice ;) |
| 21:46.01 | Bz_Win | ty L4m3r |
| 21:46.04 | a_meteorite | L4m3r: he meant munchkin |
| 21:46.05 | inferno | I'm sry |
| 21:46.12 | Bz_Win | was driving me nuts :p |
| 21:46.14 | JeffM2501 | he must have |
| 21:46.21 | L4m3r | ~a_meteorite++ |
| 21:46.22 | TimRiker | ~spell menchin |
| 21:46.31 | inferno | I'm sry my mother couldn't have been you |
| 21:46.32 | TimRiker | perhaps munching? |
| 21:46.35 | L4m3r | moonshine! he meant moonshine! |
| 21:46.36 | Erroneous | mmm, munching |
| 21:46.39 | TimRiker | hehe |
| 21:47.23 | a_meteorite | my mother didn't teach me english, my teachers did |
| 21:47.27 | a_meteorite | :) |
| 21:47.38 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-17 (n=CIA@cia.navi.cx) |
| 21:47.42 | a_meteorite | well, spelling that is |
| 21:47.56 | JeffM2501 | the bzflag is dead thread was just made by a kid who knows no better |
| 21:47.59 | inferno | sry my teachers couldn't have been you guys ;) |
| 21:48.04 | JeffM2501 | then the trolls latched on tit |
| 21:48.05 | L4m3r | reading online helps a lot in the right places |
| 21:48.10 | inferno | yeh, delete the thread |
| 21:48.16 | JeffM2501 | it's a valid thread |
| 21:48.17 | inferno | and master ban him |
| 21:48.21 | JeffM2501 | pardon me? |
| 21:48.22 | L4m3r | lol |
| 21:48.25 | L4m3r | draconian |
| 21:48.33 | JeffM2501 | very munchkin |
| 21:48.52 | L4m3r | while we're at it, let's masterban people who make glaring spelling and grammatical errors ;) |
| 21:48.57 | JeffM2501 | PETER is young but he's willing to listen to what people say and be reasonable. |
| 21:49.07 | Bz_Win | rly? |
| 21:49.14 | Epyon | Which makes me think that bzflag should have at least one visualy impressive map for show off... |
| 21:49.16 | JeffM2501 | we have had good comunications on his posting style when he has a mistake. |
| 21:49.17 | Bz_Win | he banned me from his server "your better then me: |
| 21:49.18 | Bz_Win | " |
| 21:49.30 | L4m3r | Bz_Win: that's his right... |
| 21:49.39 | Bz_Win | L4m3r: but its lame |
| 21:49.43 | JeffM2501 | I only know his comuncation on the board |
| 21:49.45 | JeffM2501 | not anywhere else |
| 21:49.46 | Bz_Win | wouldn't call that reasonable |
| 21:49.55 | *** join/#bzflag zee737123 (i=186f3433@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-2df527f98c4373f4) |
| 21:49.55 | L4m3r | yes, but it has nothing to do with his behavior on bzbb |
| 21:49.56 | JeffM2501 | that is NOT the same thing tho |
| 21:49.56 | a_meteorite | I like how diing wants to ban me everywhere cause I reported he was underage (he told me he was 12 and didn't do the COPPA... yeah...) |
| 21:50.10 | a_meteorite | makes me laugh everytime |
| 21:50.12 | Bz_Win | ban you at his provate server? |
| 21:50.14 | JeffM2501 | coppa was proven unenforceable |
| 21:50.22 | JeffM2501 | thank the maker |
| 21:50.22 | L4m3r | yay! |
| 21:50.24 | a_meteorite | yeah, but that was months ago :) |
| 21:50.40 | Bz_Win | Should just need to pass the moron test to play |
| 21:50.45 | L4m3r | but it's still a supreme excuse to lock 13 year olds out >:D |
| 21:50.46 | JeffM2501 | now you see why the "comunity" ticked off trepan? |
| 21:50.54 | L4m3r | er, less-than-thirteen |
| 21:51.05 | JeffM2501 | we have the no post ability now |
| 21:51.09 | JeffM2501 | that should take care of the offenders |
| 21:51.14 | L4m3r | yup |
| 21:51.22 | JeffM2501 | that's a cleaner solutioin |
| 21:51.25 | a_meteorite | there's about a dozen forumers who need that |
| 21:51.26 | JeffM2501 | lets them still play |
| 21:51.35 | L4m3r | I really need to do some reading on the content regulations for the internet |
| 21:51.47 | L4m3r | especially with the demise of COPPA |
| 21:51.53 | Bz_Win | gosh, glad you didn't have that when I started >:E |
| 21:52.12 | JeffM2501 | you at least add something to thraeds you post on |
| 21:52.23 | JeffM2501 | geting rid of chat helped as well |
| 21:52.27 | JeffM2501 | helped a lot |
| 21:52.33 | Bz_Win | I mean like, a year ago... when I posted "omglolz!! cool!!" |
| 21:52.44 | JeffM2501 | yeah and it would get deleted |
| 21:52.52 | Bz_Win | :) |
| 21:52.53 | a_meteorite | hey, me too :P |
| 21:53.01 | JeffM2501 | now you and cbg are just angry monkeys |
| 21:53.07 | Bz_Win | yeah |
| 21:53.07 | a_meteorite | >_> |
| 21:53.11 | Bz_Win | ^^ |
| 21:53.20 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, no your just an easy mark |
| 21:53.21 | L4m3r | CBG handles the turd-throwing, however. |
| 21:53.34 | a_meteorite | ~dict easy mark |
| 21:53.39 | Bz_Win | I need a new rank "Junior terd Thrower" |
| 21:53.50 | a_meteorite | hedh |
| 21:53.50 | JeffM2501 | so far, it's been manageable |
| 21:54.06 | a_meteorite | I've been trying |
| 21:54.21 | JeffM2501 | but on the maping, it'll be intersting to see what we get out of SoC |
| 21:54.31 | JeffM2501 | there are some nice projects that will help in that area |
| 21:54.47 | Bz_Win | are they mutli-platform? |
| 21:54.53 | JeffM2501 | that is the requirment |
| 21:54.57 | Bz_Win | ah |
| 21:55.08 | JeffM2501 | did you read the page on it? |
| 21:55.15 | Bz_Win | about a week ago |
| 21:55.22 | Bz_Win | ill go read again |
| 21:55.25 | JeffM2501 | then you saw that it said cross platform ;) |
| 21:55.57 | JeffM2501 | the ranom map with good input art will be nice too |
| 21:56.01 | a_meteorite | is there a target programming language? |
| 21:56.15 | JeffM2501 | no that was not part of the request |
| 21:56.30 | JeffM2501 | but the language was taken into account for maintainability |
| 21:57.18 | JeffM2501 | we got submissions that used a number of languages |
| 21:57.21 | JeffM2501 | ranging from C++ to java |
| 21:57.23 | Bz_Win | "...one player can only drive and the other can control the turret" turning turret? |
| 21:57.30 | JeffM2501 | yup |
| 21:57.33 | Bz_Win | icky... |
| 21:57.37 | JeffM2501 | probably |
| 21:57.40 | a_meteorite | I remember that |
| 21:57.43 | L4m3r | fun for LAN |
| 21:57.49 | L4m3r | not much else, imo |
| 21:57.50 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous and I have had much discussion on it :) |
| 21:57.54 | JeffM2501 | oh you can do it over the net |
| 21:57.57 | JeffM2501 | and make it smooth |
| 21:58.01 | JeffM2501 | halo did it |
| 21:58.02 | L4m3r | oh, I know |
| 21:58.14 | JeffM2501 | the problem will be that it will provide a HUGE advantage to the 2 player tanks |
| 21:58.16 | L4m3r | but it'd be a lot more fun sitting next to your partner |
| 21:58.17 | purple_cow | haha |
| 21:58.21 | purple_cow | "ranging from C++ to java" |
| 21:58.23 | Bz_Win | maybe edit the "faq" page? |
| 21:58.25 | Bz_Win | "Rotating Turrets - Another design decision. Rotating turrets will not be implemented simply because they make the game controls far too complex. " |
| 21:58.30 | JeffM2501 | so the dude who can't get a group will quit |
| 21:58.36 | KTL | the 2 players controlling a single tank should have a very high degree of communication |
| 21:58.37 | purple_cow | that's like saying, in the infinite number line, "ranging from 3 to 6.4" |
| 21:58.40 | inferno | lol |
| 21:58.44 | JeffM2501 | Bz_Win, that one is more of research project |
| 21:58.47 | L4m3r | Bz_Win: didn't I add an exception for that? |
| 21:58.52 | JeffM2501 | not all the SoC things will go into mainline |
| 21:58.55 | L4m3r | oh wait, different page |
| 21:58.58 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, I didn't say it was a big range ;) |
| 21:59.25 | inferno | add more colors, like cyan, yellow, white, black, grey, etc |
| 21:59.28 | purple_cow | I was hoping to see editor proposals in python or ocaml |
| 21:59.29 | purple_cow | but alas |
| 21:59.34 | inferno | that would be so cool |
| 21:59.43 | L4m3r | perhaps two-player tanks would be best segregated from normal tanks. I would not want to play on a server with both. :\ |
| 21:59.46 | JeffM2501 | there was C++, java, and C# right? |
| 21:59.47 | a_meteorite | python would make for easy development, me thinks |
| 21:59.59 | inferno | yeh, and 5 player tanks would be cool |
| 22:00.02 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, depends of you know python |
| 22:00.06 | inferno | and, flying tanks |
| 22:00.17 | a_meteorite | we already have flying tanks |
| 22:00.17 | Bz_Win | Qbasic is the way to go... ;) |
| 22:00.17 | inferno | and 50 new flags |
| 22:00.19 | JeffM2501 | inferno, your not helping your munchkin outlook at all |
| 22:00.27 | inferno | huh |
| 22:00.28 | L4m3r | *cough* |
| 22:00.49 | purple_cow | adding C# to the list pushes the range up to 6.7 |
| 22:00.50 | JeffM2501 | the currently ranked editor projects look decently thought out |
| 22:00.57 | L4m3r | someone had also suggested for openFFA having color sliders |
| 22:01.07 | gl2tosl2 | purple_cow: I'm not sure I understand your infinity reference |
| 22:01.17 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, need to change how the textures work then |
| 22:01.18 | L4m3r | so you can pick any color ;) it'd require some work, obviously |
| 22:01.20 | purple_cow | gl2tosl2: there's a huge range of programming languages |
| 22:01.20 | a_meteorite | L4m3r: that'd be neat |
| 22:01.30 | L4m3r | I think it was qbeep in fact |
| 22:01.37 | JeffM2501 | but the idea was to let openFFA have more colors |
| 22:01.38 | gl2tosl2 | sure, I'm about the make the point that it's a bad reference :) |
| 22:01.41 | inferno | and for crying out loud, we need machinge guns, HPs, upgrades, resources, and different weapons |
| 22:01.41 | L4m3r | but yeah, you'd have to use a gray texture and colorize the tank |
| 22:01.44 | JeffM2501 | at least the white and orange. |
| 22:01.48 | JeffM2501 | but I never got to that part |
| 22:01.58 | JeffM2501 | we used to do that |
| 22:01.59 | gl2tosl2 | as there are the same number of points from 0 to 1 as there are from wherevver to wherever |
| 22:02.06 | JeffM2501 | I changed it in 2.0.2 IIRC |
| 22:02.06 | Bz_Win | inferno: Why? |
| 22:02.08 | gl2tosl2 | extending the number line doesn't get you any more points :) |
| 22:02.09 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: why the change? |
| 22:02.15 | JeffM2501 | looks better |
| 22:02.23 | inferno | Bz_win, because that would make bz so much better |
| 22:02.24 | L4m3r | ah |
| 22:02.25 | JeffM2501 | so we can have stuff like browns in the green texture |
| 22:02.31 | JeffM2501 | so your not stuck with just hues |
| 22:02.37 | L4m3r | yeah, I suppose |
| 22:02.49 | JeffM2501 | by going with the geo color, you can basicly only set the luminance value |
| 22:02.51 | a_meteorite | could you make the texture a transparent png and overlay it over a colored tank? |
| 22:02.56 | JeffM2501 | you go from 16 million colors down to 256 |
| 22:03.15 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, anything is possible. |
| 22:03.30 | a_meteorite | yes, but wouldn't that be an improvement over coloring a grey texture? |
| 22:03.32 | purple_cow | gl2tosl2: I didn't say it was a perfect analogy |
| 22:03.37 | gl2tosl2 | fair enough |
| 22:03.39 | a_meteorite | of course anything is possible :) |
| 22:03.45 | JeffM2501 | it's easier with other engines, we arn't setup for multi texture as it sits |
| 22:03.46 | inferno | what's that one rock song, goes something like "no one seems to care" |
| 22:03.49 | JeffM2501 | we'd do another pass |
| 22:04.04 | JeffM2501 | inferno, are you done making a fool of yourself? |
| 22:04.11 | gl2tosl2 | I just have a ball-buster of an RA teacher, so it's hard to let things go....:( |
| 22:04.15 | Bz_Win | haha jeff :) |
| 22:04.17 | inferno | I don't see it that way |
| 22:04.18 | purple_cow | but it was a little more poetic than saying "in a range from 0 to 1, it's .1e-5 to .12e-5" |
| 22:04.21 | L4m3r | JeffM2501: I'd rather do RGB coloring myself, but it'd have to be limited in range probably |
| 22:04.22 | JeffM2501 | cus your silly interjections are geting anoying. |
| 22:04.29 | Bz_Win | Dinner...bbl |
| 22:04.36 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, you mean color the actual texture? |
| 22:04.38 | L4m3r | or everyone would be jet black ;) |
| 22:04.43 | gl2tosl2 | I'm afraind I don't understand what you would mean by that.... |
| 22:04.49 | inferno | I'm stuck on that song, can't remember the title |
| 22:04.56 | JeffM2501 | I'd do it with a couple texture passes |
| 22:05.09 | JeffM2501 | do a base tank |
| 22:05.17 | JeffM2501 | then a paint pass or 2 with color variaions |
| 22:05.32 | L4m3r | doing just hue would make it difficult to have grays, unless you also got saturation |
| 22:05.37 | JeffM2501 | indeed |
| 22:05.40 | Erroneous | gl2tosl2: regardless of the number of points inside a range, points outside the range are still excluded |
| 22:05.45 | JeffM2501 | thats why you make the gray parts on the base texture :) |
| 22:05.57 | JeffM2501 | and do a dual overlay |
| 22:05.59 | L4m3r | if you got hue/sat/lum, you'd still get all the colors ;) |
| 22:06.02 | Erroneous | pointing out that the number of points within the range is infinite, does not change the boundaries of the range |
| 22:06.05 | gl2tosl2 | ah, but in the real number line, there are the same number of points in each place |
| 22:06.16 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, not if you apply the same transform to every pixel in the texture |
| 22:06.18 | JeffM2501 | that's the problem |
| 22:06.23 | Erroneous | gl2tosl2: exactly |
| 22:06.26 | JeffM2501 | you only want to transform SOME of them |
| 22:06.29 | Erroneous | gl2tosl2: that misses the point entirely :) |
| 22:06.40 | purple_cow | gl2tosl2: my point was that "from C++ to Java" is a very small range inside a very large space |
| 22:06.41 | gl2tosl2 | that was my point...I think |
| 22:06.45 | Erroneous | if you establish a range from 1 to 5, 6 is STILL excluded |
| 22:06.47 | L4m3r | and then there's a comoflauging problem |
| 22:06.54 | JeffM2501 | yeah I find that one funny |
| 22:07.01 | L4m3r | space maps + black tanks = uhoh |
| 22:07.03 | Erroneous | even though there are an infinite number of reals between 1 and 5 |
| 22:07.03 | JeffM2501 | a camo image was picked |
| 22:07.05 | gl2tosl2 | hold on, are we talking natural numbers or rationals or real numbers? |
| 22:07.11 | JeffM2501 | then people complain that it blends into the ground |
| 22:07.21 | JeffM2501 | when THAT is what it is designed to do :) |
| 22:07.28 | L4m3r | I think rescaling the green texture did the trick though |
| 22:07.48 | gl2tosl2 | oh sure, the specific numbers are excluded....but there are just as many in the range as outside of it |
| 22:07.48 | JeffM2501 | naw, just retexture allt he tanks to just have some armor parts painted the team color |
| 22:07.52 | Erroneous | gl2tosl2: yes |
| 22:07.56 | JeffM2501 | gray treads, and stuff for everyone |
| 22:08.02 | L4m3r | mmmm |
| 22:08.08 | L4m3r | that's a really good idea. |
| 22:08.09 | JeffM2501 | like how q3 models only did the big parts of the suit |
| 22:08.10 | Erroneous | gl2tosl2: so establishing a 'range' from java to c++, still leaves lisp way, way outside |
| 22:08.10 | JeffM2501 | and the hair |
| 22:08.19 | JeffM2501 | but the face, joints, undersuit was the same |
| 22:08.20 | gl2tosl2 | fair enough..... |
| 22:08.26 | gl2tosl2 | I think we've flogged this horse to death |
| 22:08.35 | inferno | just curious, is there going to be a version 3 anytime soon? |
| 22:08.41 | inferno | or are there any plans for one? |
| 22:08.46 | a_meteorite | when it's done |
| 22:08.47 | purple_cow | hah |
| 22:08.48 | purple_cow | plans |
| 22:08.51 | L4m3r | color the barrel, parts of the turret, and the wheels ;) |
| 22:09.02 | inferno | and ur serious? |
| 22:09.11 | a_meteorite | no, we're only kidding! |
| 22:09.13 | purple_cow | nothing in bzflag is planned |
| 22:09.18 | JeffM2501 | inferno, 2.2 has to be released first |
| 22:09.19 | a_meteorite | </sarcasm> |
| 22:09.19 | Erroneous | gl2tosl2: I think so too, I just thought you might like to know that your original comment was entirely irrelevant as the comment you were responding to was objecting to the excusivity of the range :) |
| 22:09.21 | L4m3r | ~plan |
| 22:09.30 | ibot | methinks plan is to make it: 128k blob+params, 4M-128k rootfs including kernel and modules. |
| 22:09.30 | L4m3r | I think we need a factoid |
| 22:09.37 | L4m3r | oh, poo |
| 22:09.42 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, I'd re UV the entire thing, and make 2 textures, the team color one with a lot of alpha |
| 22:09.58 | purple_cow | ibot, no, plan is <reply>plans are for sissies |
| 22:09.59 | ibot | purple_cow: okay |
| 22:10.13 | L4m3r | purple_cow: methinks that's from #debian ;) |
| 22:10.16 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 22:10.28 | L4m3r | heh |
| 22:10.49 | JeffM2501 | then you can just color the pass that does the team colors |
| 22:11.00 | JeffM2501 | so you get the full color of the underlying basecoat |
| 22:11.38 | L4m3r | yeah, it sounds great |
| 22:11.50 | L4m3r | it'd solve any blending problems very easily |
| 22:11.51 | a_meteorite | maybe even define an allowable RGB range that servers can set |
| 22:11.56 | JeffM2501 | make that hud a real heads up display ;) |
| 22:11.59 | L4m3r | rogue tanks could be "plain" |
| 22:12.09 | JeffM2501 | I'd only do that after IFF is in |
| 22:12.11 | a_meteorite | wait, the server can't check that |
| 22:12.21 | L4m3r | a_meteorite: sure it can |
| 22:12.27 | JeffM2501 | so it's easy to see who can shoot what |
| 22:12.29 | L4m3r | it has to relay the colors to other players |
| 22:12.31 | a_meteorite | L4m3r: the client can lie |
| 22:12.37 | a_meteorite | oh, I see |
| 22:12.40 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, only to itself :) |
| 22:12.51 | a_meteorite | you want to have other clients see the custom colors |
| 22:12.54 | L4m3r | :) |
| 22:12.55 | a_meteorite | nice |
| 22:12.59 | L4m3r | of course |
| 22:13.01 | JeffM2501 | what would the point be otherwise? |
| 22:13.03 | a_meteorite | yeah, duh |
| 22:13.13 | a_meteorite | there would be none :) |
| 22:13.14 | JeffM2501 | you can color your local tanks whatever you want now |
| 22:13.18 | inferno | it sucks when everyone is talking about things that make no sense to me :; |
| 22:13.19 | Erroneous | heh |
| 22:13.23 | JeffM2501 | just open MS paint |
| 22:13.28 | *** join/#bzflag poolio (n=poolio@c-69-251-3-107.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:13.33 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, yeah, that's on my mind too |
| 22:13.41 | purple_cow | that sounds very dangerous to me |
| 22:13.46 | purple_cow | viz. second life |
| 22:13.47 | JeffM2501 | when the engine wars are over, we'll have to see |
| 22:13.53 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:14.07 | JeffM2501 | the CB issue bugs me too |
| 22:14.11 | JeffM2501 | but Erroneous told me to not care |
| 22:14.15 | a_meteorite | would have to have a set defined hit circle |
| 22:14.17 | Erroneous | :) |
| 22:14.26 | JeffM2501 | the hit area isn't the issue |
| 22:14.28 | JeffM2501 | that's easy |
| 22:14.38 | a_meteorite | oh, abuse with models of.. shaky stuff |
| 22:14.46 | JeffM2501 | that's also easy to fix |
| 22:14.55 | a_meteorite | approval system? |
| 22:14.55 | JeffM2501 | we solved that with images. |
| 22:15.00 | TimRiker | just need to mesh the GM and tanks and let the server send which one. meshes come from texture servers. if you turn on any download server,then you risk getting risque meshes. |
| 22:15.01 | JeffM2501 | do the same thing images do |
| 22:15.14 | JeffM2501 | yeah, that's all |
| 22:15.16 | JeffM2501 | so that part is easy |
| 22:15.21 | JeffM2501 | my issue is with gameplay |
| 22:15.23 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 22:15.33 | JeffM2501 | but it's probalby minor |
| 22:15.37 | JeffM2501 | or has a lame solution |
| 22:15.44 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: that's just like maps though. you won't play on servers with silly meshes. |
| 22:15.48 | a_meteorite | shooting at differently modelled tanks doesn't sound very appealing |
| 22:15.51 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, exactly |
| 22:16.01 | L4m3r | moderating textures is nothing like moderating avatars |
| 22:16.03 | Erroneous | you'd need things to be mostly the same size; other than that, there aren't any huge problems |
| 22:16.04 | a_meteorite | but shooting at different colored tanks in openffa does |
| 22:16.13 | L4m3r | there are only 200 servers and a fraction of those use textures |
| 22:16.14 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, we can scale to fit |
| 22:16.24 | JeffM2501 | if you don't fit your model looks like crap, and it's your fault |
| 22:16.46 | L4m3r | having to moderate models from a large player base would be a PITA |
| 22:16.47 | JeffM2501 | or we do a quake3 thing |
| 22:16.54 | TimRiker | it's a server admin decision. if the admin wants to run a map that's not navigable, they can. same impact on meshes. |
| 22:16.55 | Erroneous | Erroneous: it's not hard to trick auto-scaling stuff |
| 22:16.57 | Erroneous | ehh |
| 22:17.00 | JeffM2501 | if you have the model you use it, if you don't you use a default |
| 22:17.17 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, true |
| 22:18.19 | JeffM2501 | that's why I like the quake system |
| 22:18.19 | L4m3r | yeah, you could create some dots way outside |
| 22:18.19 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: we don't do damage |
| 22:18.19 | JeffM2501 | you choise to install em |
| 22:18.19 | JeffM2501 | I mean for models :) |
| 22:18.20 | L4m3r | I think it might be nice to have maybe 10 different tank models, and let players choose |
| 22:18.20 | TimRiker | ui is probably, join server, pick mesh (start with your last or default), enter game. |
| 22:18.20 | L4m3r | fair and fun, and less hassle |
| 22:18.20 | JeffM2501 | we can even have a cleint option to check our approved server for models |
| 22:18.20 | Erroneous | L4m3r: that's kinda what it'd be... |
| 22:18.25 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, tradtionaly you'd have a player setup menu that did all that |
| 22:18.32 | JeffM2501 | I've got it all planned :0 |
| 22:18.33 | L4m3r | instead of letting people send their own (eek!) |
| 22:18.34 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 22:18.34 | TimRiker | server would send a list, client would download like images, and off the choice to the player. |
| 22:19.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah you don' want to send players |
| 22:19.24 | L4m3r | oooh, doing it serverside could be sweet too |
| 22:19.24 | JeffM2501 | bz isn't fast and furious enough to do a real time auth system for em ether |
| 22:19.24 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: but not all meshes are available on all servers. client should be able to set preference from the local cache though. |
| 22:19.28 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, why not? why not let the cleint choose what he wants to see :) |
| 22:19.45 | JeffM2501 | he all he wants is default tanks, he never installs a model |
| 22:19.47 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@c-69-249-178-98.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 22:19.55 | L4m3r | have perm groups for models too |
| 22:19.57 | L4m3r | :D |
| 22:19.59 | TimRiker | so I setup a penguin server, and you can join as a penguin on another server? |
| 22:20.02 | JeffM2501 | if they want models, we give em a button that downlaods them |
| 22:20.06 | L4m3r | registered players can have more tanks |
| 22:20.10 | Erroneous | mmm, penguins |
| 22:20.16 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, sure it's a player choice, not a server choice :) |
| 22:20.34 | JeffM2501 | if they want to use 'unapproved' models, they manualy install them |
| 22:20.40 | JeffM2501 | and see there bouncing porn |
| 22:20.41 | TimRiker | nope. I don't think most admins what giant penguins on their server. |
| 22:20.52 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: lots of issues are avoided by letting the server specify the allowed set |
| 22:20.53 | JeffM2501 | then those admins don't install the pengin :) |
| 22:21.02 | JeffM2501 | what issues? |
| 22:21.14 | JeffM2501 | everyone has to use the same hitbox |
| 22:21.19 | TimRiker | by install you mean, add the penguin to the approved mesh list, then sure, I'm with ya. |
| 22:21.31 | JeffM2501 | no, I mean have the pengin on there local client |
| 22:21.35 | JeffM2501 | if they arn't playing they don't care |
| 22:21.53 | TimRiker | but I don't want the server admin sending me penguin pr0n either. I want to dl the meshes where I dl the images. |
| 22:22.08 | JeffM2501 | the server dosn't send you ANY meshes |
| 22:22.12 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: having the players manually install avatars is not really a good solution |
| 22:22.19 | JeffM2501 | I didn't say manualy |
| 22:22.27 | JeffM2501 | I said we give them a button that gets the approved ones |
| 22:22.32 | JeffM2501 | and installs them automaticly |
| 22:22.49 | TimRiker | right. server gives a list of URLs etc. client checks them and grabs updates. player chooses one and enters. |
| 22:22.50 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: so we either allow penguins on all servers, or on no servers? |
| 22:22.50 | JeffM2501 | then if they want MORE then that they ether submit a new one to us, that we add to our lib |
| 22:23.04 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, or that one dude that wants pengins installs it manualy |
| 22:23.09 | L4m3r | now, another question... what will happen to people's drivespace when there's a huge cache of tank models there? :) |
| 22:23.11 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, no not server, the lis server |
| 22:23.14 | JeffM2501 | not the game server |
| 22:23.26 | JeffM2501 | no, I'm just on a difrent point :) |
| 22:23.27 | TimRiker | why not do it like images on game servers? |
| 22:23.41 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, because it has gameplay/visability issues |
| 22:23.43 | JeffM2501 | images do not |
| 22:23.56 | TimRiker | I don't want to download every image used on every server. nor do I want do download every mesh used on every server. |
| 22:24.06 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: what additional issues are added by doing it server-side? |
| 22:24.07 | TimRiker | I want to get the ones that are used on the servers I play on. |
| 22:24.24 | JeffM2501 | diffrent mentaility |
| 22:24.25 | JeffM2501 | it's ok |
| 22:24.36 | JeffM2501 | I don't feel like arguing it cus I won't get anywhere |
| 22:24.48 | JeffM2501 | your server centric, I'm player centric |
| 22:25.08 | L4m3r | what happens when one server wants to have wangmobiles on April 1, 2008? :D |
| 22:25.10 | JeffM2501 | if I want to play as a pengin on a server that just didn't happen to add it to his list cus it's a munchkin server that isn't admined |
| 22:25.26 | TimRiker | if I happe to want to join "Bill's happy penguin land" today for the first time, I want to pull down the penguin mesh then and see it as an option. (perhaps the only option) for that server. |
| 22:25.27 | Erroneous | L4m3r: same thing as if some server decided it wanted wangboxes ;) |
| 22:26.01 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, thats why I say you are server centric, I am player centric |
| 22:26.03 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: exactly what should not be allowed. penguins are fine on penguin servers, but not in league matches. |
| 22:26.06 | JeffM2501 | the avatar represnets me |
| 22:26.07 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: ehh...that'd be an advantage...the other players probably don't want you to be a penguin :) |
| 22:26.10 | JeffM2501 | not the server |
| 22:26.18 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, then they turn off the pengin ;) |
| 22:26.30 | JeffM2501 | if they don't likepengins, they remove the pengin |
| 22:26.32 | JeffM2501 | but it's ok |
| 22:26.45 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: so you would require action by every player, just to give one player freedom of expression? |
| 22:26.46 | JeffM2501 | your going for "server theme" and that is one vaidl way |
| 22:27.01 | Erroneous | that's like saying "if you don't like what he's saying, use silence...nobody needs mute" |
| 22:27.01 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, I dont' think people would care if they saw him as a pengin |
| 22:27.05 | JeffM2501 | cus it was ok on the other server |
| 22:27.07 | JeffM2501 | just not here? |
| 22:27.07 | L4m3r | Erroneous: I think he means at the server level first, then at the player level |
| 22:27.24 | JeffM2501 | if they never want to see any real models just tanks, then they shoudl have that option |
| 22:27.25 | L4m3r | sorta analogous to swear filtering |
| 22:27.30 | JeffM2501 | just as we can have no remote images. |
| 22:27.39 | TimRiker | that requires that first you see the annoying penguin, then you have an admin around, or a server with polls setup, then you poll and kick the penguin. that's a lot of action to trivially reduce the annoying avatar. |
| 22:28.05 | JeffM2501 | what?! |
| 22:28.09 | JeffM2501 | or you jsut turn off your pengin |
| 22:28.12 | TimRiker | better to have the server admin just say "I allow all tanks" or "I allow whatever the heck you like" etc. |
| 22:28.40 | JeffM2501 | so the dude who hates pengins can't play on any server that allows pengins |
| 22:28.41 | Bz_Win | back Lo |
| 22:28.44 | Bz_Win | :p* |
| 22:28.47 | JeffM2501 | unles he contats the server admin |
| 22:29.01 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: "can't" no. may choose not to, yes. |
| 22:29.11 | JeffM2501 | what if that's all the main servers? |
| 22:29.15 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: what about the dude who wants to see penguins only on penguin-themed servers? |
| 22:29.17 | JeffM2501 | top 5 have pengins |
| 22:29.33 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, then he swaps his default model with a pengin and turns off remote messhes :) |
| 22:29.34 | TimRiker | then he'll host his own "no penguins here" server. |
| 22:30.31 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, and play by himself nice |
| 22:30.31 | TimRiker | and it'll be popular with the penguin hating crowd. |
| 22:30.31 | JeffM2501 | I find the though process difrences very interesting :) |
| 22:30.32 | JeffM2501 | thougt even :0 |
| 22:30.32 | JeffM2501 | damn I can't type today :) |
| 22:30.32 | TimRiker | hehe. me too. even if we can't spell. |
| 22:30.52 | JeffM2501 | it'll aslo be intersting to see the delay before you join a game |
| 22:31.00 | JeffM2501 | one time only of course |
| 22:31.08 | TimRiker | in short.. My thought is "the server admin makes the rules". you don't like it, you go someplace else. there's always another place to go. |
| 22:31.27 | JeffM2501 | my only flaw with that rule is, there isn't always |
| 22:31.34 | JeffM2501 | but we'll see |
| 22:31.43 | JeffM2501 | it'll come down to the implementer like all things :) |
| 22:31.50 | TimRiker | right, first join adds the new AVs. there would be lag there. but first join already has lag on images at the same point. |
| 22:32.01 | JeffM2501 | no, your before join |
| 22:32.01 | L4m3r | the approval process would have to be good, too, for things like coloring |
| 22:32.04 | JeffM2501 | at team time :) |
| 22:32.08 | JeffM2501 | so you get a double hit |
| 22:32.27 | JeffM2501 | well coloring gets hella intersting |
| 22:32.37 | JeffM2501 | as you'd have to have all the team textures for all the models |
| 22:32.42 | L4m3r | oooh, there's an idea. different models for different teams |
| 22:32.45 | JeffM2501 | that's there regardless of where it comes from |
| 22:32.54 | JeffM2501 | that a lot more art work but yeah |
| 22:32.59 | TimRiker | well, I was thinking after join, before enter adding a new optional menu where you pick an AV or just approve the one you already had picked. |
| 22:33.03 | JeffM2501 | youd' have to flag what teams each model is valid with. |
| 22:33.11 | JeffM2501 | ahh a prespawn then |
| 22:33.15 | TimRiker | yes |
| 22:33.18 | JeffM2501 | fair nuf |
| 22:33.33 | L4m3r | penguins versus apples |
| 22:33.41 | TimRiker | and if your preferred AV is on the list, you can skip that menu. |
| 22:33.49 | L4m3r | versus clippys |
| 22:33.54 | L4m3r | :D |
| 22:33.58 | JeffM2501 | then just play quake :) |
| 22:34.01 | TimRiker | my question is... can you re-enter that menu and change AVs on the fly? |
| 22:34.16 | JeffM2501 | no mater what I think there should be an option to always use the tank |
| 22:34.19 | JeffM2501 | and show others as tanks |
| 22:34.24 | JeffM2501 | for the softies |
| 22:34.34 | TimRiker | sure. pick "low" detail. |
| 22:34.52 | JeffM2501 | or some other more intutive option, lets say ;) |
| 22:34.58 | JeffM2501 | remember we LIKE our users |
| 22:35.07 | TimRiker | but I agree, it's probably a good item to add separately to keep the prim count down. |
| 22:35.08 | purple_cow | we do? |
| 22:35.19 | JeffM2501 | that's what Iv'e been told |
| 22:35.25 | JeffM2501 | has there been a policy change? |
| 22:35.35 | JeffM2501 | cus that'd make some stuff a lot easier |
| 22:35.36 | TimRiker | someone must love them. we keep doing things for them. |
| 22:36.01 | JeffM2501 | well it wasn't our UI designer for sure :) |
| 22:36.11 | purple_cow | we have a UI designer? |
| 22:36.15 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 22:36.28 | JeffM2501 | somebody made the first one |
| 22:36.42 | TimRiker | heh. perhaps we have one that never talks to users. I don't think he/she likes the users. |
| 22:37.23 | L4m3r | or we have one that never played anything since Doom |
| 22:37.24 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@cpc2-cbly2-0-0-cust985.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:37.31 | L4m3r | ;) |
| 22:37.34 | JeffM2501 | personaly I'd wait for models till after the engine wars |
| 22:37.36 | Teppic | Anyone around? |
| 22:37.39 | JeffM2501 | as most of those will load a model |
| 22:38.08 | TimRiker | anyhow.. geek night tonight. more xbox hacking etc. I better get to that. :) keep me posted when we have a left hand directx3d port working and someone with an xdk to port bzflag on. |
| 22:38.46 | JeffM2501 | the plan isn't to convert to left hand but make the engines use right |
| 22:39.06 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: well, the engine wars want an external model for things don't they? it's just a question of where they get it. :) if they already get images from the cache, it's not a big step to get the meshes there too. |
| 22:39.21 | JeffM2501 | they don't "want" |
| 22:39.27 | JeffM2501 | they just have the loaders |
| 22:39.33 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: it wasn't a serious comment. :) |
| 22:39.39 | JeffM2501 | all of them can also do programitc geometry |
| 22:39.51 | JeffM2501 | well the lefthand thing is my personal bane right now :) |
| 22:39.59 | TimRiker | I know. hence the comment. :) |
| 22:40.15 | JeffM2501 | I've got lightfeather almost converted to righthand |
| 22:40.22 | JeffM2501 | ogre is right hand already |
| 22:40.26 | JeffM2501 | so that's good |
| 22:40.28 | Erroneous | think they'll take the patch? |
| 22:40.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:40.33 | JeffM2501 | been talking to them |
| 22:40.34 | Erroneous | sweet |
| 22:40.39 | JeffM2501 | it'll be a build option |
| 22:40.43 | TimRiker | nice |
| 22:40.52 | JeffM2501 | they are much nicer then the irrlicht people |
| 22:40.55 | Erroneous | hmm, not runtime? :) |
| 22:40.58 | JeffM2501 | HAVE_RIGHT_HANDED |
| 22:40.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:41.01 | JeffM2501 | just simpler |
| 22:41.13 | JeffM2501 | otherwise have to go and swap the normals on all computed geometry :) |
| 22:41.26 | JeffM2501 | they are cool with that |
| 22:41.38 | JeffM2501 | I got Z to be up with out too much issue |
| 22:41.44 | Erroneous | heh |
| 22:41.54 | JeffM2501 | they even accepted my patch to set the up vector for thier lookat method |
| 22:42.06 | *** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@67-42-80-2.tukw.qwest.net) |
| 22:42.11 | Erroneous | ah, cool |
| 22:42.43 | purple_cow | surely your definition of vmm is different from mine |
| 22:42.50 | JeffM2501 | Virtual Machine Macro |
| 22:42.58 | purple_cow | well, close |
| 22:42.59 | JeffM2501 | but our concept of "virtual machine" is dif :) |
| 22:43.01 | Erroneous | heh |
| 22:43.12 | JeffM2501 | ours are big heavy things, that can kill you |
| 22:43.22 | Erroneous | they're virtual though, so they can't |
| 22:43.24 | purple_cow | that sounds like a real machine |
| 22:43.39 | JeffM2501 | well it can kill the virtual you :) |
| 22:43.43 | Erroneous | heh |
| 22:43.52 | JeffM2501 | we can do colisions on a fake dude in the sim model |
| 22:44.02 | Erroneous | that sounds interesting enough to try :) |
| 22:44.14 | JeffM2501 | just give the idea to steve A |
| 22:44.16 | JeffM2501 | he'll model it |
| 22:44.18 | Erroneous | our red collision marks are probably about the right color too ;) |
| 22:44.39 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, in reality it's a fancy name for "dll" :) |
| 22:44.49 | purple_cow | haha |
| 22:45.14 | JeffM2501 | what does yours mean? |
| 22:45.19 | purple_cow | virtual machine monitor |
| 22:45.21 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 22:53.15 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 22:54.03 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 23:00.50 | Bz_Win | oh dear... http://static.scribd.com/docs/736egzypod07v_files/image010.jpg |
| 23:00.51 | Bz_Win | haha |
| 23:05.50 | hobbsc | Bz_Win: was that from the list of "they didn't study" |
| 23:06.05 | Bz_Win | hobsc: yeah |
| 23:06.14 | Bz_Win | err, hobbsc* |
| 23:06.34 | hobbsc | http://www.scribd.com/doc/5107/They-didnt-study |
| 23:06.36 | hobbsc | that was a riot |
| 23:06.51 | Bz_Win | I like "find x" |
| 23:06.57 | hobbsc | "here it is" hehe |
| 23:06.58 | Bz_Win | I am gunna make that into a shirt :p |
| 23:07.06 | hobbsc | nice |
| 23:07.57 | *** join/#bzflag trovao (n=trovao@201.79.13.176) |
| 23:08.05 | gl2tosl2 | I like the batman one |
| 23:08.24 | hobbsc | i think the ninja turtle one is pretty good, but only for the teacher's response |
| 23:08.26 | gl2tosl2 | Integrate the bat out of batman to get bruce wayne |
| 23:09.59 | hobbsc | pretty smart ;) |
| 23:11.15 | purple_cow | huh, I thought there was more than one soc app mentioning ogre? |
| 23:14.35 | gl2tosl2 | the 'hangman' one is pretty funny too |
| 23:14.45 | hobbsc | act of desperation :) |
| 23:14.47 | gl2tosl2 | I know I've certainly had that moment on a test |
| 23:15.43 | hobbsc | i've had it for sure |
| 23:21.12 | L4m3r | one of the comments: |
| 23:21.15 | L4m3r | I once used white-out to erase the entire page in a test and wrote in the middle: "this page left blank intentionally" |
| 23:21.33 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, there were 2 |
| 23:21.39 | purple_cow | I only see one |
| 23:21.43 | JeffM2501 | second page |
| 23:21.45 | JeffM2501 | one went down |
| 23:21.57 | JeffM2501 | as they wanted to redo the entire client |
| 23:22.46 | Bz_Win | haha... a_meteorite doesn;t get the math things |
| 23:23.08 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dialin-213-170-173-013.ewetel.net) |
| 23:23.11 | a_meteorite | no, I never looked |
| 23:23.20 | a_meteorite | you said "haha" to me in IM |
| 23:23.38 | purple_cow | JeffM2501: ah |
| 23:23.42 | Bz_Win | and [asted the link :p |
| 23:23.55 | purple_cow | I'm grumpy that the highly rated one already has a mentor for another organization |
| 23:24.07 | a_meteorite | um, no you didn't |
| 23:24.23 | JeffM2501 | both do |
| 23:24.28 | a_meteorite | you pasted the link after I asked you twice what "haha" was all about, then you pasted it 6 times :P |
| 23:24.33 | a_meteorite | hehe |
| 23:25.15 | Bz_Win | bbl |
| 23:26.16 | JeffM2501 | more then one of the top ones have more then one too |
| 23:26.27 | JeffM2501 | makes sense since they can write decent proposals :0 |
| 23:26.29 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 23:29.48 | L4m3r | it's unfortunate that there are so many talented coders out there who can't write for beans :) |
| 23:30.15 | JeffM2501 | well the people/org skills are needed |
| 23:30.35 | JeffM2501 | you may be able to bust out code, but if it's a bad design then it's just a prety set fo bad code |
| 23:30.37 | L4m3r | I'm not a talented coder, but I can write for beans, at least... but not well enough for peanuts :) |
| 23:31.28 | L4m3r | isn't that kind of counterproductive? :P |
| 23:31.30 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, did you get my message about adding to your proposal? |
| 23:31.42 | L4m3r | let me look |
| 23:31.57 | JeffM2501 | it was probably here |
| 23:32.01 | JeffM2501 | not on google |
| 23:32.06 | L4m3r | oh, then I was probably not watching |
| 23:32.13 | JeffM2501 | can you add a little more about yourself in a comment |
| 23:32.15 | Epyon | L4m3r, it isn't as long as you drink at night and code during the day :P |
| 23:32.29 | JeffM2501 | techincaly we all know you, but the others had to provide info about themselves, and to be fair you should too |
| 23:32.29 | L4m3r | or vice-versa |
| 23:32.33 | L4m3r | pl |
| 23:32.35 | L4m3r | ok* |
| 23:32.37 | JeffM2501 | thanks |
| 23:32.43 | Erroneous | Epyon: got that backwards...drink during the day, and code at night |
| 23:32.50 | Erroneous | then you get bzflag ;) |
| 23:32.56 | Erroneous | ~beer Epyon |
| 23:32.59 | ibot | ACTION pulls out a excellent Piraat for Epyon |
| 23:33.11 | L4m3r | I had noticed more about you guys ranting that so many apps were just mantras with no real proposals :) |
| 23:33.22 | Epyon | Cool ^^ |
| 23:33.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah your propsal was good |
| 23:33.45 | JeffM2501 | you were realy listening when we were bitching and fighting about it :) |
| 23:33.59 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 23:35.43 | JeffM2501 | he wasn't the only one who did that, so cudos to them |
| 23:36.48 | JeffM2501 | I do wonder what that blue line means? |
| 23:36.51 | JeffM2501 | estimated slot count? |
| 23:37.01 | JeffM2501 | or just the ranking over a value? |
| 23:37.08 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@pool-71-184-81-71.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:37.37 | JeffM2501 | as if that's the estimated slot count and distro, I'm cool with right where it's at |
| 23:38.05 | JeffM2501 | every one of those would be great to have |
| 23:38.22 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: it's based on how many slots we asked for, apparently |
| 23:38.28 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 23:38.33 | JeffM2501 | then fair enough |
| 23:38.36 | Erroneous | it'll be adjusted based on how many we get later |
| 23:38.39 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 23:38.51 | JeffM2501 | I happy with how the current rankings have landed |
| 23:40.01 | Erroneous | yeah, they look good |
| 23:40.12 | Erroneous | hm, did tupone not mark the CS dude as willing to mentor? |
| 23:40.24 | purple_cow | well, I want an ogre one up there... |
| 23:40.31 | JeffM2501 | there is |
| 23:40.39 | purple_cow | (one that we're likely to be able to accept) |
| 23:40.46 | JeffM2501 | there was only one of those :) |
| 23:40.51 | JeffM2501 | and it's there |
| 23:41.01 | purple_cow | except we need to battle with plan9 |
| 23:41.08 | JeffM2501 | who is that? |
| 23:41.10 | Erroneous | you really think he'd pick plan9 over a game? :) |
| 23:41.20 | purple_cow | maybe? |
| 23:41.22 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: bell labs' os, supposed to be a successor to unix |
| 23:41.26 | purple_cow | plan9 is pretty sweet |
| 23:41.26 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 23:41.31 | Erroneous | yeah, it is pretty sweet |
| 23:41.35 | JeffM2501 | offer him some booze |
| 23:41.44 | Erroneous | woot bribes |
| 23:42.03 | Epyon | Beer is the ultimate bribe. |
| 23:43.53 | *** part/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@pool-71-184-81-71.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 23:49.25 | Bz_Win | back :p |
| 23:50.56 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-206-229-70.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:51.43 | hobbsc | i fiddled with plan9 for a bit, it wasn't too bad |
| 23:51.51 | hobbsc | not very good as a desktop os, but a nice development os |
| 23:51.58 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (n=bzgirl@unaffiliated/orchid) |
| 23:51.59 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid] by ChanServ |
| 23:51.59 | hobbsc | i use freebsd with ion most of the time |
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