| 00:00.06 | Erroneous | it was "worth it" to me, just for me. |
| 00:00.15 | JeffM2501 | I'm just thinking if your asigning money to for a development standpoint |
| 00:00.17 | Erroneous | it would not be "worth it" to a business |
| 00:00.20 | JeffM2501 | also asign money from a user base |
| 00:00.25 | JeffM2501 | did we break even? |
| 00:00.27 | brlcad | you could rewrite "a game" that is similar to bz with way less than "154 person years" of development effort .. probably just a couple guys and a year and you'd have that much -- but to match "bzflag" and all it's existing features .. I think it'd be pretty hefty timeframe |
| 00:01.03 | brlcad | i mean.. you just wouldn't probably implement things like a console countdown timer unless someone screamed for it |
| 00:01.06 | Erroneous | hehe, person years. /me hasn't spent enough time in a politically correct context, clearly :) |
| 00:01.07 | JeffM2501 | heh, you'd spend that much time just defining what bzflag is :) |
| 00:01.16 | brlcad | even though that took someone many months the first time it was done |
| 00:01.43 | brlcad | Erroneous: I only say that as ohloh calls it that :) |
| 00:01.43 | JeffM2501 | how did they get the time estimate? |
| 00:01.47 | JeffM2501 | lines of code? |
| 00:01.50 | brlcad | still call them man-years here |
| 00:01.51 | JeffM2501 | or just time between commits? |
| 00:01.55 | Erroneous | probably loc |
| 00:02.05 | JeffM2501 | loc? |
| 00:02.10 | JeffM2501 | ahh yeah |
| 00:02.10 | brlcad | more than just lines |
| 00:02.12 | Erroneous | lines of code |
| 00:02.20 | Erroneous | you think so? |
| 00:02.23 | JeffM2501 | wonder how accurate it is |
| 00:02.50 | brlcad | if i'm not mistaken, that's using the sloccount metric or something similar |
| 00:03.04 | brlcad | it takes into account refactor effort, and complexity as the codebase grows |
| 00:03.08 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 00:03.23 | brlcad | dev slows down as the codebase grows.. it's not linear |
| 00:03.24 | Erroneous | not linear lines (ooh...the possibility for puns...), but lines nonetheless |
| 00:05.20 | brlcad | that's where I think the estimate there is roughly on the mark.. if you had to rewrite something that retained "565K" lines of application complexity.. it'd take "roughly" around that long -- I'd believe that within 20% or so myself |
| 00:05.39 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@24-159-197-22.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 00:05.51 | brlcad | now if you change the problem/goal and reduce that to something less.. yeah.. *way* less time to get the gist of a rewrite |
| 00:06.06 | Erroneous | do we really need all 565k lines for equivalent functionality though? we have a lot of functions that do "similar" things, just because two people liked doing it different ways |
| 00:06.24 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 00:07.16 | Erroneous | and if you had "a couple guys and a year" you'd have a lot less of that sort of thing happening |
| 00:07.23 | TheRedBaron | exactly |
| 00:07.30 | brlcad | sure |
| 00:07.54 | TheRedBaron | 'the devs' solve differences by making things optional |
| 00:08.00 | TheRedBaron | look at how the GUI options have grown |
| 00:08.41 | brlcad | i mean it sort of equates with refactor time, and the whole non-linear complexity.. a couple guys could do way better because they could probably agree and have a unified vision |
| 00:08.55 | brlcad | but then it'd probably take then 3x-5x the time to match all the features |
| 00:09.05 | brlcad | the code would be neat and compact, though :) |
| 00:09.23 | Erroneous | you're saying bzflag would take a couple guys 35 years? |
| 00:09.35 | Erroneous | or did I miss something? |
| 00:09.52 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: that's an issue of "management" and decision making -- as you put "solving differences" but also with the user community |
| 00:10.13 | a_meteorite | work = motivation%*time |
| 00:10.25 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: agreed |
| 00:10.48 | brlcad | mm.. I don't know exactly how long really Erroneous .. but to really match all the functionality, it would be difficult I think |
| 00:11.01 | brlcad | it is so much easier when you can ditch some of the seemingly minor features |
| 00:11.09 | TheRedBaron | I think it would be interesting, to take a poll and see how many people use the "radar Shot line: leading/lagging" |
| 00:11.16 | brlcad | the first 90% is the fast/easy part |
| 00:11.18 | TheRedBaron | and actually set the line to "leading" |
| 00:11.20 | brlcad | it's the other 90% that gets you |
| 00:11.34 | JeffM2501 | if somone had a list of all the features and functionality in BZ, it could be done ( not using libs ) in a year by 2-3 guys |
| 00:11.43 | a_meteorite | TheEnemy: I have mine set to leading and the config is set above GUI settings |
| 00:11.46 | JeffM2501 | it's just not that complex |
| 00:11.52 | Erroneous | TheRedBaron: weren't you the one that wanted leading? |
| 00:11.52 | JeffM2501 | most of our time was spend REDOING stuff |
| 00:12.03 | TheRedBaron | Erroneous: You guys changed it lagging :D |
| 00:12.07 | JeffM2501 | cus difrent people came and went |
| 00:12.14 | TheRedBaron | I wanted it kept as leading, so you'll threw in the option |
| 00:12.30 | Erroneous | sure, because it took less time to put the option in, than to get you to leave us alone :P :) |
| 00:13.02 | TheRedBaron | I keep it as leading, and there was a topic on bzbb not that long ago (time is relative) that questioned the use of having the "lagging" option |
| 00:13.18 | TheRedBaron | Erroneous: that I don't understand. It sounds easier to delete code, rather than add code |
| 00:13.58 | a_meteorite | TheRedBaron: it would be more work if people wanted to go back to lagging ;) |
| 00:13.58 | TheRedBaron | Erroneous: and yes, I "threw a fit" about you the change, But sometime, some one has to light a fire under the seats of the devs, to get something done ;) |
| 00:14.06 | Erroneous | TheRedBaron: we fixed a function that did those lines, among other things. it "broke" those lines, for those of you who preferred leading. we added code to make the shot lines special :) |
| 00:14.16 | TheRedBaron | a_meteorite: the point is, there is no "going back to lagging" |
| 00:14.43 | TheRedBaron | it was always leading, and then it changed to lagging |
| 00:14.43 | brlcad | JeffM2501: while I think generating that list itself would be a bltch of a task.. there is some truth, but then that's also semi-cheating as it provides a development checklist (and I don't think the amounts presume that would be a given) |
| 00:14.50 | a_meteorite | Well, I don't know about those shot options or when they came or what came first. |
| 00:14.58 | a_meteorite | Oh then never mind about my comment. |
| 00:15.18 | JeffM2501 | depends on the project |
| 00:15.31 | JeffM2501 | stuff like mozilla has a roadmap, and feature list etc.. |
| 00:15.47 | brlcad | but a case in point though.. the word filter, for example. like it or hate it, even as a line item -- it took me a couple months of effort to get working right and working efficiently -- even knowing what I did now, it would still probably take me most of that time if I had to start from scratch |
| 00:16.02 | JeffM2501 | if that estimate took our style into account maybe, but I'm guessing it dosn't |
| 00:16.12 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, full time months? |
| 00:16.14 | Erroneous | yeah, there are some truly time-consuming chunks of code in bz |
| 00:16.24 | a_meteorite | brlcad: heh, now you sparked my idea of supporting regex word matching |
| 00:16.29 | brlcad | JeffM2501: close to them, yes |
| 00:16.32 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 00:16.47 | brlcad | it actually went on for much longer with all the tweaking and testing, and refactoring |
| 00:16.55 | brlcad | but full-time would be about that long |
| 00:17.16 | a_meteorite | regex matching would probably take forever if the current thing took a few months O_o |
| 00:17.17 | JeffM2501 | loging costs more then the GNP of iceland |
| 00:17.44 | brlcad | and if I had to do it again (while still communicating with other devs, discussion things, refactoring/optimizing/testing as needed), it'd still take 1-2 months I bet |
| 00:18.00 | Erroneous | $7billion, JeffM2501? |
| 00:18.06 | brlcad | Erroneous: actually not nearly as much .. hrmph |
| 00:18.06 | JeffM2501 | yes, 7 billion |
| 00:18.16 | Erroneous | JeffM2501: sure you have...just not mostly of your time ;) |
| 00:18.30 | JeffM2501 | what one? |
| 00:18.36 | brlcad | it's been more sporadic .. lot of "context-restarts" where I've had to refamiliarize myself with where I left off |
| 00:18.48 | brlcad | filtering was mostly uninterrupted |
| 00:18.51 | JeffM2501 | weather took 2 days |
| 00:19.01 | Erroneous | font subsystem took around a month of full-time work from me until the initial checkin, and I was starting with your existing code |
| 00:19.10 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 00:19.11 | Erroneous | then tupone and I worked on it more afterwards |
| 00:19.21 | JeffM2501 | I wrote that in like 5 hours |
| 00:19.44 | JeffM2501 | needed some OT hours :) |
| 00:19.46 | Erroneous | go look at the initial commit, there were many, many lines of bz code changed |
| 00:19.47 | brlcad | i had the initial filtering done in like a week. it was 90% done.. it took another 7 weeks or so for the other 90% polish |
| 00:20.21 | Erroneous | JeffM2501 just does that 90% and leaves the rest for us :) |
| 00:20.37 | JeffM2501 | well when I wrote it I wasn't thinking it woudl go into BZ |
| 00:20.52 | brlcad | you do that a lot ;) |
| 00:20.59 | JeffM2501 | yup |
| 00:21.10 | brlcad | even when you do put it into bz ;) |
| 00:21.10 | Erroneous | not that I have a big problem with it. It's nice to have something reasonable to start with. |
| 00:21.14 | JeffM2501 | cus there is little to no direction if the project even wants the thing :) |
| 00:21.18 | brlcad | it kick starts activity |
| 00:21.21 | Erroneous | yeah |
| 00:21.25 | brlcad | make people complain and talk if anything ;) |
| 00:21.49 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:22.06 | brlcad | and on the other extreme, there is often a cool new feature |
| 00:22.07 | JeffM2501 | sadly what is lacking is the leadership desciion about it |
| 00:22.22 | Erroneous | brlcad: I bet you'd make people talk if you checked in logging now... ;) |
| 00:22.25 | brlcad | that others can hack at cleaning up for the year to follow |
| 00:22.29 | JeffM2501 | too bad thef ish missle never made it |
| 00:22.31 | brlcad | hah |
| 00:22.32 | brlcad | probably |
| 00:23.23 | JeffM2501 | inchworm, you can do that now |
| 00:23.25 | JeffM2501 | with a pluing |
| 00:23.31 | inchworm | very cool |
| 00:23.34 | *** join/#bzflag JoshTriplett (n=josh@unaffiliated/joshtriplett) |
| 00:23.40 | JeffM2501 | there is a shot end event now |
| 00:23.48 | inchworm | have nuclear GM's :) |
| 00:23.49 | brlcad | Erroneous: hmm.. actually i'm not so sure.. it's developed in isolation stand-alone, so it'd just "be there" useless atm |
| 00:23.54 | JoshTriplett | Does any kind of "master ban list" exist? |
| 00:23.57 | Erroneous | ah :( |
| 00:24.01 | JeffM2501 | you can't have the SW tied to the player tho |
| 00:24.03 | a_meteorite | JoshTriplett: yes |
| 00:24.06 | JeffM2501 | that will take another change |
| 00:24.24 | JoshTriplett | a_meteorite: How do you submit reports to get someone added to it? |
| 00:24.25 | inchworm | JeffM2501: not a big deal, the SW blast would be collateral damage anyway |
| 00:24.27 | brlcad | sort of like the PositionTracker now.. hmm |
| 00:24.28 | JeffM2501 | http://www.bzflag.org/master-bans.txt |
| 00:24.31 | a_meteorite | http://bzflag.org/master-bans.txt |
| 00:24.35 | a_meteorite | beat me to it, heh |
| 00:24.44 | inchworm | and with more letters too |
| 00:24.53 | JeffM2501 | JoshTriplett, takes more then one server to get on it |
| 00:24.53 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:24.54 | a_meteorite | JoshTriplett: it takes a lot of reports and it has to be a static IP |
| 00:25.28 | Erroneous | heh, positiontracker :) |
| 00:25.41 | brlcad | really should make regex and hostname matching part of the default server build so that masterbans can use them too |
| 00:25.44 | a_meteorite | now if the person is globally registered... that's a tad easier to deal with cause they can delete their account instead of ban by IP (but they still need lots of reports that the person is a major problem) |
| 00:26.13 | a_meteorite | inchworm: I couldn't remember if it was my.bzflag.org or bzflag.org ;) |
| 00:26.40 | inchworm | jeff still got more letters in :) |
| 00:27.03 | a_meteorite | heh, he's probably got it memorized, I had to check both :P |
| 00:27.09 | brlcad | JoshTriplett: suggest just saying who is causing trouble (how and in what way), and if more reports are heard, they'll be added. if you can get other server operators to report the same abuse, they'll be added quickly |
| 00:27.11 | JeffM2501 | I just type faster |
| 00:27.21 | a_meteorite | I type 85 WPM and 3 errors |
| 00:27.30 | a_meteorite | on a two minute timed test |
| 00:27.39 | JeffM2501 | this isn't a timed test :) |
| 00:27.41 | JoshTriplett | Will direct evidence prove sufficient? Join the server bzflag.mindbender.ca, and watch the player "Christopher Reeves Wheelchair" for a minute. They have an unkillable cheat enabled, and they manage to disrupt any attempt to "/poll ban" with the usual "press f12" and similar tricks. |
| 00:27.44 | a_meteorite | :P |
| 00:27.49 | JoshTriplett | And yes, registered AFAICT. |
| 00:27.52 | a_meteorite | JoshTriplett: he's a known cheater |
| 00:28.04 | a_meteorite | and can't be banned cause he's a dynamic IP |
| 00:28.07 | a_meteorite | at least masterbanned |
| 00:28.39 | TheRedBaron | JoshTriplett: sometimes justice is slow, but if it was too swift, alot of innocent heads would role |
| 00:28.41 | a_meteorite | hold on, I'll see what I can do |
| 00:28.44 | TheRedBaron | *roll |
| 00:28.44 | brlcad | if he's causing trouble "right now" I could probably keep track of his IP and keep them banned, but not indefinitely |
| 00:28.45 | JoshTriplett | a_meteorite: So you'd need support for masterbans of hostmasks, a la IRC bans? |
| 00:28.51 | JoshTriplett | TheRedBaron: True enough. |
| 00:29.00 | JoshTriplett | brlcad: Temporarily would help. :) |
| 00:29.06 | a_meteorite | JoshTriplett: that don't happen... |
| 00:29.17 | JeffM2501 | we don't masterban hostmasks for dynmaics |
| 00:29.28 | JeffM2501 | if somone is causing problems, step 1 is to contact the server owner |
| 00:29.33 | JeffM2501 | and have them try a local ban |
| 00:29.41 | brlcad | JoshTriplett: I'd still need an IP, and if you can get his IP then you should be able to ban him locally just as easily |
| 00:29.48 | JoshTriplett | brlcad: Not my server. |
| 00:29.50 | JeffM2501 | if they become a larger problem in the comunity then we start to look at masterban |
| 00:29.55 | a_meteorite | poll banned |
| 00:30.01 | JeffM2501 | JoshTriplett, then you need to start by talking to the owner of that server. |
| 00:30.03 | Erroneous | there is more than one actual person who uses "Chrisopher Reeves Wheelchair" as an alias |
| 00:30.14 | JeffM2501 | masterban is the last resort. |
| 00:30.18 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: CRW IS a big problem ;) |
| 00:30.23 | Erroneous | they have slightly different habits, and different IP ranges |
| 00:30.25 | brlcad | mm.. a resort |
| 00:30.26 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 00:30.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah, but we can't do anything other then everyone go global reg |
| 00:30.33 | a_meteorite | that's why not much can be done |
| 00:30.43 | JoshTriplett | a_meteorite: In theory, couldn't you ban a hostmask and nick combination? |
| 00:30.45 | Erroneous | yeah...it's a rather mean problem |
| 00:30.49 | JoshTriplett | a_meteorite: Or just a nick, for that matter? |
| 00:30.54 | JeffM2501 | JoshTriplett, we don't have that ability |
| 00:31.02 | a_meteorite | JoshTriplett: if there was a patch for it |
| 00:31.03 | Erroneous | that wouldn't accomplish anything anyway |
| 00:31.07 | a_meteorite | you could add it to the bad word filter |
| 00:31.08 | JeffM2501 | but we don't do mastebans that may get others |
| 00:31.10 | JoshTriplett | a_meteorite: Point me at the code to patch. :) |
| 00:31.10 | a_meteorite | and -filtercallsigns |
| 00:31.11 | Erroneous | they also play with other aliases |
| 00:31.22 | a_meteorite | they could change their name though |
| 00:31.26 | Erroneous | most of which are not appropriate to type here :) |
| 00:31.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah if it's something they can change then it's pointless |
| 00:31.42 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: hehe, unless they're too proud of their name ;) |
| 00:31.48 | brlcad | a_meteorite: that still won't help as he's complaining as a user not a server op |
| 00:31.54 | a_meteorite | I know |
| 00:31.56 | inchworm | 2.2 should solve this problem, no? |
| 00:31.59 | JeffM2501 | if that happens the local bans can take care of it |
| 00:32.02 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@client-86-27-57-7.brhm.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 00:32.05 | JeffM2501 | inchworm, what problem? all cheaters? |
| 00:32.06 | brlcad | inchworm: mebbie.. mebbie not |
| 00:32.14 | inchworm | JeffM2501: this cheater |
| 00:32.15 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: um not really |
| 00:32.18 | JeffM2501 | what does he do? |
| 00:32.30 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: I find it's easier to get rid of CRW by filter, and not by IP |
| 00:32.32 | inchworm | unkillable |
| 00:32.33 | a_meteorite | god mode cheats |
| 00:32.37 | JoshTriplett | a_meteorite: For that matter, what about support for flagging a set of hostmasks as requiring registration due to use by cheaters? Wikipedia uses that for commonly abused IPs. |
| 00:32.37 | a_meteorite | anywhere and everywhere |
| 00:32.40 | JeffM2501 | right now client still does kills |
| 00:32.56 | JeffM2501 | so unless somone bucks up and does server side hits, it's all the same |
| 00:32.58 | inchworm | JeffM2501: ahh ok |
| 00:33.04 | a_meteorite | JoshTriplett: hmmm |
| 00:33.15 | a_meteorite | hostmasks can be masterbanned |
| 00:33.23 | JeffM2501 | we will not ban a hostmask |
| 00:33.31 | JeffM2501 | but you'r welcome to implemnt your ideas in a plugin |
| 00:33.35 | a_meteorite | are they worse to ban than an IP? |
| 00:33.38 | JeffM2501 | it can do bans based off anything |
| 00:33.53 | JeffM2501 | if there is a posibility that we'd get an inocent, masterban is out. |
| 00:34.11 | a_meteorite | just banned CRW at brad.bz:5154 |
| 00:34.31 | a_meteorite | he's just making his rounds |
| 00:34.32 | brlcad | mmm.. wonder where fiberchunks is on his bzauthd diagramming |
| 00:34.42 | brlcad | pretty nifty stuff |
| 00:35.03 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, blast007 was also working on ldap stuff |
| 00:35.11 | JoshTriplett | Well, thanks for your time, anyway; now I knwo. |
| 00:35.13 | JoshTriplett | *know |
| 00:35.45 | brlcad | JoshTriplett: sorry couldn't immediately help -- it is a limitation being worked out |
| 00:35.51 | brlcad | hopefully won't always be a problem of course |
| 00:36.13 | JeffM2501 | should have never made masterban |
| 00:36.16 | brlcad | JeffM2501: yeah, I noticed |
| 00:36.17 | view | chris reeves is at halo3's server now. |
| 00:36.28 | A-Delusion | I wish I had a copy of trepan's other drawinfo map... the one with the 100,000 static triangles. |
| 00:36.32 | a_meteorite | banning in a min |
| 00:36.38 | JoshTriplett | JeffM2501: Why not? |
| 00:36.47 | a_meteorite | banned. |
| 00:36.48 | JeffM2501 | because everyone wants it to be a global cop system |
| 00:36.52 | JeffM2501 | and that's not what it is |
| 00:37.00 | JeffM2501 | I should have made an opt in global cop system :) |
| 00:37.38 | JoshTriplett | JeffM2501: Meaning a set of responsible people that get the ability to do local bans on servers that opt in? |
| 00:37.41 | JeffM2501 | a nice global system that is web based, maintained, and serviced by a plugin on the servers. |
| 00:37.53 | JoshTriplett | JeffM2501: Sounds useful. |
| 00:37.57 | JeffM2501 | not local bans, but the ability to set a shared ban list of a lot of critera |
| 00:38.11 | JeffM2501 | and have it be reviewed |
| 00:38.21 | JeffM2501 | and have a policy in place on how to get unbanned, etc... |
| 00:39.02 | JoshTriplett | JeffM2501: Do you see any value in setting "registration required" ranges for commonly abused sources? |
| 00:39.26 | JeffM2501 | it would be a nice option for server owners |
| 00:39.31 | JeffM2501 | be simple to do in a plugin |
| 00:40.14 | JeffM2501 | there are so many ban logic choices now I'm of the opinion that for anything other then basic bans they be done via plugin |
| 00:40.19 | JoshTriplett | Fair enough. |
| 00:41.03 | ruskie | hmm would be nice if the forum would have text links to stuff not only graphics |
| 00:41.55 | brlcad | JeffM2501: that's why I started talking more with fiber since he was interested and willing to document, so those interested (blast or otherwise) can jump in to work towards that goal |
| 00:42.10 | JeffM2501 | cooleo |
| 00:42.37 | *** part/#bzflag JoshTriplett (n=josh@unaffiliated/joshtriplett) |
| 00:43.13 | JeffM2501 | torblock was just so damned ellegant for a shared ban list, I loved it :) |
| 00:58.54 | blast007 | can't really say I was "working" on LDAP stuff to much, just testing a few of tf the web stuff with LDAP ;) |
| 01:26.53 | *** join/#bzflag bz79 (n=42a1ee9e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 01:49.35 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-252-148.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:49.50 | *** join/#bzflag anti-spam (n=48405fbb@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:06.34 | spldart | woah! Christopher Reeves Wheelchair graced my server :) |
| 02:07.07 | ViciousMuffin | eh? |
| 02:08.32 | inchworm | heh |
| 02:08.43 | inchworm | did you grace his backside with a nice kick? |
| 02:09.52 | spldart | he kept getting autokicked for TK's .. I banned for half a year |
| 02:10.05 | inchworm | hehe |
| 02:13.53 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pool-71-109-230-219.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:13.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 02:15.51 | *** join/#bzflag anti-spam (n=48405fbb@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:17.15 | *** part/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@client-86-27-57-7.brhm.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 02:17.28 | anti-spam | Lol, I got bored so look what I did with wings: http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bzfi0193cb9.png |
| 02:18.10 | anti-spam | I'll use it in one of my maps =) |
| 02:19.26 | blast007 | amazing |
| 02:27.03 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 02:48.06 | *** join/#bzflag plasma_kaz (n=evanmele@about/essy/MeanieBeanie/plasmakaz) |
| 03:14.18 | A-Delusion | lol, absolutely dumbfounding |
| 03:15.10 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host197-137-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 03:24.09 | spldart | o_O |
| 03:41.08 | *** join/#bzflag brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad) |
| 03:41.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by irc.freenode.net |
| 03:42.27 | brlcad | woot |
| 03:46.54 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10admin/master-bans.txt: multiple incidents of public server cheating and abuse |
| 03:47.16 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:48.24 | a_meteorite | brlcad: who is that? |
| 03:48.29 | a_meteorite | crw? |
| 03:48.31 | Quol | just came in from outside - man is it cold out there :) |
| 03:48.35 | brlcad | a_meteorite: yes |
| 03:48.42 | blast007 | they're dynamic |
| 03:48.47 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 03:48.50 | brlcad | i realize that |
| 03:48.52 | a_meteorite | brlcad: A-D give you the IP? |
| 03:48.56 | brlcad | and I'm watching the logs |
| 03:48.58 | spldart | yay... |
| 03:49.24 | brlcad | a_meteorite: no, i'll be monitoring the activity for a while directly |
| 03:49.28 | a_meteorite | brlcad: ah |
| 03:49.32 | Quol | brlcad: is it cold down there too? |
| 03:49.39 | brlcad | Quol: yep :) |
| 03:49.44 | spldart | is his ip bouncing around today? |
| 03:49.49 | brlcad | ~weather kbwi |
| 03:49.52 | brlcad | spldart: not today |
| 03:49.54 | a_meteorite | it always does |
| 03:49.56 | a_meteorite | crw isn't even the same person |
| 03:49.56 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa (n=deepa@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 03:50.07 | brlcad | is there a real player named CRW? |
| 03:50.23 | spldart | IC... I just have one ip for today myself |
| 03:50.35 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa|AFK (i=deepa@abused.armchairs.be) |
| 03:50.36 | brlcad | 68.105.103.234 ? |
| 03:50.46 | spldart | yes |
| 03:50.50 | a_meteorite | he's not the same person all the time |
| 03:51.00 | a_meteorite | I think there are copycats |
| 03:51.15 | brlcad | no matter, so long as the name isn't in use by a real player, it can be considered off-limits |
| 03:51.15 | spldart | a distinct possiblity |
| 03:51.17 | a_meteorite | since the IPs are wildly different |
| 03:51.27 | brlcad | and I'll just ban anyone that uses it |
| 03:51.46 | brlcad | heck, I could automate the banning if he gets really annoying |
| 03:51.55 | a_meteorite | different class A's |
| 03:52.02 | brlcad | wouldn't matter |
| 03:52.03 | a_meteorite | he already was annoying ;) |
| 03:52.16 | blast007 | they've been around for a while now |
| 03:52.20 | blast007 | always the same client |
| 03:52.30 | a_meteorite | I think it's that one client posted on the internet |
| 03:53.00 | brlcad | I could automate it so it justs ban every IP instance as they are used, pretty much instantly |
| 03:53.18 | brlcad | but it'll have to be sufficiently annoying to waste time doing that |
| 03:53.51 | blast007 | they usually get bored after a while |
| 03:54.19 | brlcad | and if they were banned instantly, probably even more quickly |
| 03:54.22 | blast007 | but this is also the first masterban for them afaik, so who knows how they'll react ;) |
| 03:54.58 | brlcad | of the past 8 days, that's the only IP they've used |
| 03:54.58 | *** join/#bzflag Deepa|Away (n=deepa@korvboll.armchairs.be) |
| 03:56.46 | *** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=short_ci@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 04:00.42 | brlcad | so is the cheat client hard-wired for that callsign or something? |
| 04:01.09 | a_meteorite | no |
| 04:01.23 | a_meteorite | it may not even be that client since the client I have in mind has colored flags and such |
| 04:01.53 | a_meteorite | there was the lord jesus client with invincibility... |
| 04:02.47 | a_meteorite | that would make more sense to be that client since the CRW dude(s) probably aren't all going to make the same source mod |
| 04:05.04 | DTRemenak | brlcad: there's more than one, similar, callsign |
| 04:05.06 | blast007 | the only mod I've seen them have is god mode |
| 04:05.32 | DTRemenak | Christopher Reeves wheelchair! is another, for instance (lowercase, exclamation point). mostly variations on the theme. |
| 04:09.19 | brlcad | apparently not "recently" |
| 04:11.15 | brlcad | heh "giggidy" |
| 04:12.58 | Quol | bbl - gonna play a little :) |
| 04:16.38 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) |
| 04:17.27 | brlcad | hmm.. could write a libirc app that relays list server activity to a channel... |
| 04:17.42 | brlcad | that would be evil |
| 04:41.18 | brlcad | would it be reasonable to presume that profanity would be allowed in callsigns on mofo.kicks-ass.net? |
| 04:41.31 | A-Delusion | yes, brlcad |
| 04:48.01 | brlcad | hehe, some player callsigns are really funny |
| 04:49.46 | purple_cow | is that like "sleepless in seattle"? |
| 04:53.17 | A-Delusion | *** 'Splat' destroyed by 'drunk driver'. |
| 04:54.26 | brlcad | something like that, though the guy was from seattle iirc |
| 04:54.31 | brlcad | the girl was actually in Baltimore |
| 04:55.03 | brlcad | chicago then moved to seattle or something |
| 04:55.22 | A-Delusion | Broken Wind (Clap Like Thunder) |
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| 09:26.13 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 13:23.23 | uso | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:24.10 | uso | they more or less regular connect my servers but never log in |
| 13:24.38 | brad | 206 is the mofo server IP |
| 13:25.05 | brad | and 81. is bzstats.strayer.de |
| 13:25.25 | uso | ah, strayer, ok |
| 13:25.31 | brad | if you're wondering about the connects every 3 mins from 206., someone is running a stats site |
| 13:26.04 | uso | but it get a php info page if i connect the http port at this address ;) |
| 13:26.50 | brad | it was at bzflag.redjacket.ws but that seems to not work anymore |
| 13:27.16 | uso | brad: have you had any problems with your servers during the last 2 days? |
| 13:27.22 | delusional | that would be a-meteorite, and I made him drop the timing to once every ten minutes |
| 13:27.52 | brad | uso, no today but they were offline for about an hour yesterday |
| 13:28.09 | brad | no=not |
| 13:28.21 | uso | my servers freeze a lot during the last 2 days, they were running for weeks without problems before |
| 13:28.41 | uso | and i haven't chenged anything since december .. |
| 13:28.41 | brad | ah, not a network problem? |
| 13:28.53 | uso | no, bzfs problems |
| 13:28.56 | brad | I see |
| 13:29.00 | brad | then no, no problems |
| 13:29.04 | uso | the network outage i have seen too :( |
| 13:42.00 | spldart | :( |
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| 15:50.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
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| 16:20.23 | Pommes | strayers is still down :( |
| 16:20.32 | Pommes | can't live without strayers |
| 16:25.10 | SportChick | Pommes: talk to [dmp] :) |
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| 16:27.23 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:31.33 | [dmp] | typical, for once i walk down and shop.. and the database then stalls meanwhile :) |
| 16:33.53 | *** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 16:40.12 | *** join/#bzflag Killer123 (n=586da661@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:40.22 | Killer123 | hello |
| 16:40.59 | Killer123 | btw is it possible to view private messages when debugging? |
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| 17:04.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
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| 17:58.50 | a_meteorite | delusional_: what the heck is your problem? are you telling everyone my scripts are causing problems? |
| 17:58.55 | a_meteorite | delusional_: I' |
| 17:59.12 | a_meteorite | delusional_: I'll say this once and once more, they aren't causing anyone any problems and you have no idea what you're talking about |
| 17:59.16 | brad | they are causing problems |
| 17:59.24 | a_meteorite | brad: elaborate, entertain me |
| 17:59.25 | brad | which is why I blocked your IP |
| 17:59.30 | a_meteorite | how? |
| 17:59.34 | brad | I've already been through this with you |
| 17:59.37 | a_meteorite | it does no more querying that m.bo. or strayer's |
| 17:59.43 | a_meteorite | how is mine different? |
| 17:59.58 | a_meteorite | what is special or taxing about mine? |
| 17:59.59 | brad | there doesn't need to be 50 stats sites querying all servers |
| 18:00.06 | a_meteorite | mine is better than m.b.o. |
| 18:00.17 | a_meteorite | why don't you block m.b.o. then? |
| 18:00.25 | brad | because that's the "official" one |
| 18:00.29 | a_meteorite | so? |
| 18:00.39 | a_meteorite | ours will be just as good as strayer's |
| 18:00.45 | a_meteorite | and probably better |
| 18:00.51 | a_meteorite | maybe not now, but later |
| 18:01.05 | a_meteorite | brad: I want to know *exactly* how it's causing problems |
| 18:01.14 | a_meteorite | what exactly is so bad about it that is causing you problems? |
| 18:02.17 | a_meteorite | if strayer's is not official, why do you not ban his IP? |
| 18:02.28 | a_meteorite | and just mine? is this a grudge of some sort? |
| 18:06.20 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite perhaps you should take your issue up with them in private |
| 18:06.28 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: ... |
| 18:06.39 | a_meteorite | JeffM2501: been there, done that |
| 18:06.59 | a_meteorite | I just want to know *why* it causes problems, why my *script* causes them problems - not *me* |
| 18:07.03 | JeffM2501 | then onece again, this channel is not for airing of grevences |
| 18:07.12 | JeffM2501 | you don't want to go down that road again |
| 18:07.14 | a_meteorite | I wasn't airing any grievances |
| 18:07.23 | a_meteorite | I just want to know why a bzflag server querying script is causing bzfs problems |
| 18:07.28 | JeffM2501 | it's a private metter between servers |
| 18:07.30 | a_meteorite | which is totally related to the subject matter of this channel |
| 18:07.36 | JeffM2501 | well then debug it or get the info |
| 18:07.46 | JeffM2501 | if they won't give you the info in private, then they ain't in public |
| 18:07.47 | a_meteorite | that's the thing, it has never caused problems for me once. ever. |
| 18:08.00 | a_meteorite | I just want to know how it's different than what testing I've done |
| 18:08.11 | JeffM2501 | then instead of saying it's a grudge, how about you go over the code again and see what could happen |
| 18:08.31 | a_meteorite | because brad may have a grudge against me, I don't know...? |
| 18:08.36 | JeffM2501 | then if he does THAT is a private matter |
| 18:08.42 | a_meteorite | since my scripts are no different than m.b.o. or strayer's (but better than m.b.o.) |
| 18:08.50 | a_meteorite | I don't know IF he does :) |
| 18:08.57 | JeffM2501 | how can they be "no diffrent" but also "better" ? |
| 18:09.05 | a_meteorite | they query in the same manner |
| 18:09.10 | a_meteorite | but make a better use of the info available |
| 18:16.20 | TheRedBaron | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:16.21 | TheRedBaron | :) |
| 18:17.23 | SportChick | ~lart TheRedBaron |
| 18:19.23 | TheRedBaron | ~pinch sportchick |
| 18:19.24 | ibot | ACTION scuttles after sportchick, pinches him, and then scuttles away |
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| 18:25.16 | a_meteorite | exactly, you don't seem to get it when I tell you something |
| 18:25.34 | JeffM2501 | you 2, private it now |
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| 18:28.23 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
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| 19:14.21 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03t-s * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/ (bzfs.cxx bzfsPlayerStateVerify.cxx): Try to find out whether a jumping tank is accelerated by physics driver rather than disabling all checking in case a map contains a physics driver |
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| 20:03.45 | Gnurdux | delusional_, what did you revoke a_meteorite 's access for? |
| 20:03.49 | Gnurdux | he wont tell me what he did |
| 20:03.59 | a_meteorite | because he said some stuff here |
| 20:04.00 | blast007 | Gnurdux: not the place |
| 20:04.00 | CBG | Gnurdux: maybe you should ask in private? |
| 20:04.02 | a_meteorite | I didn't like it |
| 20:04.05 | donny_baker | Gnurdux: private please |
| 20:04.06 | a_meteorite | so I confronted him |
| 20:04.08 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 20:04.10 | a_meteorite | join ##planetmofo |
| 20:04.10 | Gnurdux | a_meteorite, not here |
| 20:07.09 | a_meteorite | not cool |
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| 20:47.32 | *** join/#bzflag Cruel_bot (n=supybot@modemcable148.11-83-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:47.51 | cruel_dog | !leave |
| 20:47.51 | Cruel_bot | cruel_dog: Error: "leave" is not a valid command. |
| 20:47.56 | cruel_dog | !quit |
| 20:48.05 | a_meteorite | bots can't be here |
| 20:48.17 | cruel_dog | thats y i removed him |
| 20:48.19 | cruel_dog | sorry |
| 20:48.33 | cruel_dog | ill go delete this channel from his conf |
| 20:49.26 | *** join/#bzflag Cruel_bot (n=supybot@modemcable148.11-83-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:49.30 | cruel_dog | !quit |
| 20:49.34 | cruel_dog | gah |
| 20:49.36 | CBG | uhm.... |
| 20:49.37 | cruel_dog | it doesnt work |
| 20:49.39 | CBG | ~ping |
| 20:49.40 | ibot | pong |
| 20:49.42 | a_meteorite | ..... |
| 20:49.46 | Cruel_bot | cruel_dog: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. |
| 20:49.48 | CBG | Wow, ibot seems to be a _bot_..? |
| 20:49.49 | cruel_dog | u know how tio remove? |
| 20:50.04 | CBG | cruel_dog: it's YOUR bot. |
| 20:50.13 | cruel_dog | i know, but ioi dunno how |
| 20:50.24 | CBG | ... |
| 20:50.33 | cruel_dog | !leave |
| 20:50.33 | Cruel_bot | cruel_dog: Error: "leave" is not a valid command. |
| 20:50.35 | cruel_dog | !part |
| 20:50.36 | *** part/#bzflag Cruel_bot (n=supybot@modemcable148.11-83-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:50.56 | cruel_dog | ill restart him, i hope he wont come. if so, im sincerly sorry |
| 20:51.57 | cruel_dog | yaym i think he will never come again! :) |
| 20:53.44 | cruel_dog | sorry for the bot disturbance. |
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| 22:44.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Manu] by ChanServ |
| 22:51.05 | a_meteorite | ~seen Quol |
| 22:51.27 | ibot | quol <n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 18h 38m 29s ago, saying: 'bbl - gonna play a little :)'. |
| 23:01.08 | view | Are there any blender users out there who can convert a .bzw to obj format for me, ... I won't ask again |
| 23:04.04 | brad | wow, can blender do that? |
| 23:04.12 | *** join/#bzflag Cortex (n=Cortex@81.5.206.160) |
| 23:05.58 | L4m3r | bzwtools can, I think |
| 23:06.26 | view | yeah, that's what I've heard |
| 23:06.33 | brad | is that teppic's thing? |
| 23:09.14 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 23:29.01 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 23:31.22 | *** join/#bzflag A-Delusion (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-104-202.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:36.56 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-104-202.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:53.17 | *** join/#bzflag bz55 (n=48ae00a0@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:53.27 | bz55 | um... |
| 23:54.47 | *** join/#bzflag Draicone (n=scythere@ppp127-98.lns2.bne4.internode.on.net) |
| 23:55.07 | Draicone | I've probably brought this up before, but any thoughts on bittorrent as a distribution method for bzflag? |
| 23:55.29 | Draicone | http://ostorr.org/torrents/release/6 << isn't doing too bad |
