irclog2html for #bzflag on 20061231

00:47.48*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone)
00:47.48*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ
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00:59.46*** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
01:23.19*** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@fedora/codergeek42)
01:50.38*** join/#bzflag pyro214 (i=cfac3f80@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-4d263fd47780702d)
01:50.50pyro214hi
01:50.53pyro214ANYPONE HERE
01:52.56tannerld...
01:53.16tannerldnope, no one here, only 48 bots.
01:56.55brlcad:)
02:37.52a_meteorite~seen JeffM2501
02:38.22ibotjeffm2501 <n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501> was last seen on IRC in channel ##essy, 6d 8h 21m 36s ago, saying: 'but vegas and San Diego with Dana will be quite nice'.
02:39.17*** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97)
02:55.47*** join/#bzflag Linuxx0r (n=ich@pD9E35690.dip.t-dialin.net)
02:56.02Linuxx0rHi
02:56.26Linuxx0rcan anyone tell me the E-Mail address of that guy on planet mofo?
02:57.15Linuxx0rthere was an admin who banned me because he didn't knew the new feature of the map so you can shoot out of the buildings
02:57.48Linuxx0rthen he offended me and banned my whole subnet
02:59.17*** join/#bzflag Tropican8 (i=user@c-69-137-19-228.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
02:59.38L4m3rLinuxx0r: this isn't the place
02:59.47CBGemail bill.gates@microsoft.com
02:59.50CBGnobody else cares
02:59.52Linuxx0r:D
02:59.55Linuxx0rokay
03:00.16L4m3rThe rest of mofo already knows and agrees. deal with it, and listen to the admin next time.
03:01.09L4m3rAnd heed the ban reason...
03:01.13*** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com)
03:02.08L4m3rAnd, for future reference, if you feel you've been wrongly ban, then you contact mofo
03:02.36L4m3ryou DO NOT change your IP and start trouble on the server.
03:02.36L4m3rs/ban/banned/
03:02.38Linuxx0ryes, but i forgot the email address to contact mofo
03:02.57CBGWhy do you need to contact anyone?
03:02.59L4m3rThat's no excuse. Use the forums.
03:03.07Linuxx0rthe ban reason was: "stop cheating, asshat" <- I am trying to heed that...
03:03.21Tropican8Umm? forums? PMs? The Website? The server's private irc channel?
03:03.31L4m3ryeah, THEN you should have tried to contact someone
03:03.42L4m3rrather than going back in and pissing people off
03:03.57Linuxx0ri didn't piss him off
03:04.06Linuxx0ri just asked him why
03:04.21L4m3ryou still sidestepped a ban
03:04.29Linuxx0rbecause i couldn't get much information out of "stop cheating, asshat"
03:04.43L4m3rthen contact him elsewhere
03:05.20CBGCan we watch the language here, please?
03:05.37L4m3rBut, it doesn't matter now. Your ban is short, so deal with it.
03:05.38Linuxx0rI am just quoting you
03:05.44Linuxx0rwell...
03:06.04CBGI didn't swear here.
03:06.40L4m3ryour first ban may or may not have been warranted, but that does not invalidate the second ban for coming back.
03:07.48CBGWhether a ban is warranted or not, you are in no position to complain...
03:08.05CBGWhen you run a server, you can set the rules and ban whoever you like for whatever you like.
03:08.32Linuxx0rwell, I was helping developing bzflag because i had fun playing it
03:08.33Tropican8*whomever
03:08.47Linuxx0rin the next version there will be three new flags made by me
03:08.51Linuxx0rbut now
03:08.59Linuxx0rwhen my ban is over
03:09.09L4m3rBoo hoo. we aren't bzflag.
03:09.35L4m3rWe try to be benevolent about our servers, but we expect players to be mature, too.
03:09.36Linuxx0rI'll just hunt jou, CBC, and if you than ban me for hunting you, you will be really in trouble
03:09.51CBGIn trouble with ...?
03:09.58Tropican8Yeah, umm, you can't just make new flags anyway. Chances are the code would have been rejected. So it would have been a waste :-)
03:09.59Linuxx0rwith the rules
03:10.18Linuxx0rmy patch is already accepted :)
03:10.29CBGWhat are the rules going to do? Spank me?
03:10.31CBGRules are not living, they can't "do" anything.
03:10.40Linuxx0rthe flag is implemented in the cvs version
03:10.42CBGI couldn't care less about your patch, if I am completely truthful.
03:10.43L4m3rban evasion and idle threats will not make us listen to you, either
03:11.10L4m3rIf you had come to us first, we'd have done something...
03:11.17Tropican8yeah, we aren't the devs
03:11.28L4m3rbut instead you chose to start trouble, and now we have no sympathy for you.
03:11.30Linuxx0ri forgot about that, i was too upset
03:11.31Tropican8so you are just taking away from innocent people
03:11.38L4m3rIn short, get bent.
03:12.57Linuxx0ri wasn't distrycting any other players i private messaged CBC
03:13.00Linuxx0r*CBG
03:13.14Linuxx0rbut anyway...
03:13.21Linuxx0rhow long will the ban take?
03:13.24CBGCheck your ban reason.
03:13.35Linuxx0rwhich one?
03:13.49CBGThe 2nd.
03:14.11Linuxx0rthe "you pissed me off, bitch" one?
03:14.20blast007...
03:14.36CBGWatch the language here, please!
03:14.37blast007even if you are quoting, please do not say that stuff in this channel
03:14.56Linuxx0ryou are provocating me
03:15.04Linuxx0rso how long is it?
03:15.15L4m3rYou are still responsible for your own actions.
03:15.26CBGRead the reason carefully. Does it mention annoying anyone else on the server?
03:15.48Linuxx0rI want toknow how long the ban lasts
03:16.14blast007Linuxx0r: the ban will be expired when you can join again
03:16.31CBGHow long is a year?
03:16.41Tropican8in minutes? lol
03:16.50Linuxx0rhow long?
03:16.55CBGDays is fine...
03:17.11CBGSomeone help me out here, I wanna know how many days till 2008.
03:17.21blast007Linuxx0r: the more you ask, the more they're probably going to increase it
03:17.41Linuxx0rmy ISP is the biggest in germanyso you probably just banned every single german player
03:17.43Tropican8oh, till the end of the year? easy
03:17.57Tropican8I thought you meant a whole year
03:18.02Linuxx0rme too
03:18.29CBGDoes nobody know how long a year is?
03:18.37Theme97365
03:18.38Tropican8he did, he said 2008, oh my!
03:18.40Theme97366 in a leap year
03:18.46Tropican8525600 in minutes
03:18.50CBGOk, thanks Theme97.
03:18.59CBGSo, what, 366 days until 2008? :)
03:19.06Theme97Yep.
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03:19.26Theme9731536000 seconds in a year!
03:19.40tannerld365.4
03:19.45tannerldleap year ;)
03:19.47brlcadproviding enhancements that get commited doesn't get anyone, even other devs, any special privileges
03:19.58brlcadespecially with respect to playing on other operator's servers ;)
03:20.33Theme97tannerld: shhhh
03:21.43Linuxx0ryes brlcad, but I just tried them to realize I am a honest player who likes that game and does not try topiss anybody off
03:21.55Linuxx0rhe just yould have muted me
03:22.07brlcadLinuxx0r: yet apparently you've upset some people on at least one server :)
03:22.36brlcadprobably just talking to the wrong crowd -- the ultimate "appeal" for your case should only be directed at the server's operator
03:23.04brlcadthey always have the last say, even over their own admins unless they delegate more control
03:23.39brlcadotherwise, there are plenty of other servers... maybe time to learn a new style and let things cool down ;)
03:24.26Linuxx0ri like mofo most thats the reason
03:24.32Linuxx0rwhy i am so upset
03:24.39CBGI guess it sucks to get banned by one of those "server operators".
03:25.02brlcadCBG: er, I doubt an op banned him
03:25.13CBGYou do? ;)
03:25.16Tropican8Sorry to disappoint you CBG, you're not an op
03:25.20L4m3rMofo is a community deal. he is indeed talking to the right people, just in the wrong place
03:25.20brlcadthere's only one op to a server, the guy that owns the hardware
03:26.02CBGbrlcad: Ok, in that case, the OP is someone who never probably played bzflag.
03:26.06Tropican8or allocating a group a ridiculous amount of power....along with shared ssh access
03:26.06brlcadthat would be a case perhaps where the op has "delegated more control"
03:26.08CBGprobably never*
03:26.13L4m3rthe server op delegates near full control to the server admins
03:26.42brlcadCBG: perhaps, but from control perspectives, that is a useful distinction to maintain and not muddy
03:27.08brlcadthere are ops and admins and players
03:27.39CBGbrlcad: I disagree that the hardware owner is the op in every case. What if you hire the hardware?
03:27.56brlcadCBG: broad generalization -- the person that is running the server
03:28.19CBGthe bzfs server, or the actual server ?
03:28.27Tropican8brlcad: 4 people have access to the actual bzfs process
03:28.46brlcadnot surprising
03:29.15brlcadand rather irrelevant -- someone set that infrastructure up
03:29.28brlcadsomeone pays the bills too probably
03:29.45Tropican8Actually, 50% of the admins contribute ;-)
03:29.48CBGWell, it's funny that you bring that up.
03:29.53blast007heh
03:30.02brlcadit's not really useful in this case as the op has obviously delegated even most op responsbilities to a group
03:30.28CBGI am actually one of the main contributors. ;)
03:30.51brlcadso who set up mofo?
03:31.01brlcadinitially
03:31.07Tropican8xlhost
03:31.11a_meteoriteI_Died_Once, IIRC
03:31.15a_meteoriteI think
03:31.26Tropican8lol, the founder of MoFo was I_Died_Once, AKA Darth Vader
03:31.33a_meteoriteYeah.
03:31.41a_meteoriteBut A-Delusion seems to be the right-hand dude.
03:31.46Tropican8yes
03:31.58Tropican8A-Delusion and Darth are the highest up on the totem pole
03:32.00a_meteoriteI'm the last dude. ;)
03:32.07Tropican8Actually, AD has a lot more control
03:32.21a_meteoriteCause A-D owns the "MoFo server."
03:32.26a_meteoriteWe should really name that thing...
03:32.29L4m3rrents, not owns :P
03:32.31brlcadthen under traditional lingo, he's the op -- the guy that can shut the whole deal down and take his ball home if he wanted -- and he's apparently got a lot of people collaboratively working together
03:32.34a_meteoritehehe
03:32.52brlcadA-D would be the "server op", different role
03:32.55L4m3rbrlcad: he's also got a lot of people helping with the bill
03:33.13brlcadakin to how i'm the server op to .bz, but there are plenty of other bzfs op's that run their servers
03:33.22CBGIDO couldn't really shut anything down.
03:33.32CBGAs we said, A-D actually rents the server.
03:33.34L4m3rat least not permanently
03:33.42Tropican8Well, IDO can shut down his own FFA
03:33.50brlcadCBG: he could, doesn't mean someone else could resurrect it
03:33.52a_meteoriteSomeone else would run it. ;)
03:33.56Tropican8but there's nothing stopping anyone else to bring it back
03:34.02CBGbrlcad: what could he do? very little.
03:34.09CBGno more than me, I believe.
03:34.18brlcadmaybe, that was never the point
03:34.25brlcadif that makes you feel better, so be it
03:34.34CBGI don't need to feel better.
03:34.45brlcadyou seem adament to point out that you "have the power" :)
03:34.58brlcadwhich was not the point
03:35.13brlcadjust spelling out the roles that are useful for discussing who's doing what
03:35.29CBGI am pointing out that there is no one "op".
03:35.45CBGThat there is little to be gained from contacting any such person directly.
03:35.52brlcadthe op can certainly delegate full control, set up a full democratic administrative setup, nifty even
03:36.29brlcadCBG: saying that there is no one "op", is what I'm saying is not useful -- it muddies the definition of an op
03:36.44CBGNothing is black and white, brlcad.
03:36.51brlcadeven for a situation where the op has completely opened up or transferred full control to a group
03:37.08spldartcept teh crayons
03:37.09brlcadheh, an absolute statement in itself CBG
03:37.24CBGIndeed, but you see my point?
03:38.26CBGI am simply suggesting that the victim of this atrocity would be better off spending his time trying to move on than dwelling on the ban and contacting someone who is highly unlikely to do anything whatsoever to assist them.
03:38.40brlcadi see what you're trying to say, but it's a point that has no utility -- from a setup arrangement, the mofo op has delegated entire administrative capacity to the server's admins
03:39.07brlcadah, if that's your point, sure
03:39.23brlcadi don't care about that particular dilemma
03:40.13brlcadjust saying in general, if someone has a problem with an admin, their only recourse is to talk to the op -- in a situation like mofo's, that's apparently not going to get them anything
03:40.41brlcadand that's often the case -- the ops designate admins so they can delegate that control
03:40.48CBGIt depends on the admin in question - and no I'm not talking about anyone in particular.
03:41.13brlcadand on the server and admin-to-admin arrangement
03:41.23brlcadcould easily be a hierarchy or some other setup
03:41.31CBGIndeed.
03:41.56CBGAnd with the current state of the world, he who donates more cash, tends to sit higher up the chain.
03:42.05brlcadthe default guaranteed though is an operator and an admin (who may be the same person)
03:42.11brlcador may be wildly different
03:42.19brlcadbut those two roles are still relevant
03:42.38Tropican8CBG: actually, it goes Delusion, IDO, and probably MoFo.admin, in sheer perm amount
03:42.41brlcadooh, goody, so someone can buy their political seat :)
03:43.09CBGTropican8: sure, sure.
03:43.17CBGbrlcad: That's not what I said. :P
03:43.22brlcada year ban does seem excessive for a single-day incident imho, but that's just me
03:43.23CBGBut it may be true...
03:43.23Tropican8CBG: but yeah, you got sway ;-)
03:43.28CBGSeems like it here in the UK, lately.
03:43.36brlcadCBG: never said you said that, just talking here
03:43.41CBGI got swing, brother.\
03:45.28trepanthe guy got banned for an admin's mistake, and gets a year for it?  (... and for whatever offenses were made after the fact)
03:45.53brlcadapparently
03:45.55CBGAdmin's mistake? Pardon?
03:45.57*** join/#bzflag anti-spam (n=4840628a@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:46.08CBGAnd who said the ban was for a year?
03:46.10anti-spamhi
03:46.12brlcadand people say you're harsh trepan  :)
03:46.13trepansomething about a map change making it look like cheating
03:47.01CBGUnless you are Linuxx0r or a MoFo admin, trepan, I doub't you know the reason that Linuxx0r is banned.
03:47.10*** join/#bzflag anti-spam (n=4840628a@bz.bzflag.bz)
03:47.19CBGPerhaps you read it above, I believe he did paste it here...
03:47.20anti-spamhi
03:47.28anti-spami
03:47.28Linuxx0rhi
03:47.29anti-spamh
03:47.31spldartnaughty
03:47.31anti-spamhi
03:47.32*** kick/#bzflag [anti-spam!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (brlcad)
03:47.36blast007....
03:47.43CBGYep, ironic.
03:47.53CBGLike I said the first day he started posting on the bzbb.
03:47.56inchwormsorta funny if it hadn't happened before a few times
03:48.03trepanCBG: hence my use of the '?' character
03:48.14L4m3rCBG: hey, I said that you mooch
03:48.16brlcadCBG: so then banned for a year for bad language in one day? :)
03:48.23CBGL4m3r: hmm?
03:48.29CBGbrlcad: pardon?
03:48.34a_meteoriteanti-spam is annoying...
03:48.35L4m3rthe irony of "anti-spam"
03:48.45a_meteoriteand... spam induced
03:49.04spldartgreen eggs and ham. spam I am
03:49.49brlcadgood ol crufty cgi:irc
03:49.56spldarthehe
03:50.54inchwormhehe
03:58.08CBGL4m3r: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=96861#96861
03:59.59L4m3rwhat is it? (while I wait for it to load)
04:00.27CBGme pointing out irnoy
04:00.29CBGirony*
04:01.07L4m3roh. I did it on IRC :P
04:01.39CBG;)
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04:57.50yourmomhello?
04:58.00a_meteoritehi
04:58.33blast007bye
04:58.43a_meteoritehaha
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05:26.38Cruelhi
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05:45.58Pogovinahi all
05:53.16spldartHi
06:09.16*** join/#bzflag Pogovina (n=Rita@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com)
06:09.28PogovinaThat's better
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06:20.42Pogovinahi theme97
06:20.52Theme97hi Pogovina
06:20.59spldartmiss my first Hi Pogz?
06:21.22Pogovinayes I did miss your first hello, spldart
06:21.35spldartcuz it crashed?
06:21.37Pogovinadunno how I did that
06:21.45Pogovinayes, likely because of my crash
06:21.49spldartpoopies
06:22.05PogovinaTheme97, get your 'spldart-in-a-box' yet?
06:23.03Theme97Pogovina: Nope :(
06:23.11Theme97Hopefully in time for the New Year though
06:23.23Theme97spldart: Hurry up your clone!
06:24.20Pogovinahehe
06:36.49spldartbzzzt
06:43.09Pogovinao rly
06:49.29spldartyep
06:56.07Flashon a server where unregistered nicks can't talk, can they still use admin chat?
06:56.39FlashI suspect a couple of tanks of being bots, but I can't be sure
06:57.16Flashmostly, I suspect them because their e-mail string is (default)
06:57.29Flashand I noticed that silverfox's bots use that string
07:03.24Pogovinaaww, no more hubby
07:04.48Theme97Flash: Depends.
07:05.00Theme97If they have the adminMessageSend perm or not.
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07:05.28Pogovinahe returns!
07:05.33Pogovinaon a different computer
07:05.35Pogovina:p
07:05.51spldartOn a 5 minute old debian installation
07:06.05Pogovinaw00t
07:07.43Flashany good way to detect a bot?
07:09.41Theme97Flash: -solo or autopilot?
07:10.19Theme97If -solo, just check callsign.
07:10.28Theme97If autopilot, somehow catch a Roger message.
07:15.14FlashTheme97: neither, I think
07:16.12Theme97Hmm...
07:18.15Theme97Flash: How does the bot run, then?
07:20.38FlashI don't know that much ;-)
07:20.57Flashfor example, some server owners have bots spawn if not enough players are present
07:21.15Flashif you aren't the owner, is there a way to tell if another player is a bot or a human?
07:21.35Theme97Well, there is one way.
07:22.00Theme97If it NEVER jumps, no matter what, it's most likely a bot (or some player whose jump key is broken).
07:22.22Flashbut if the map doesn't allow jumping (pillbox) that doesn't help much ;-)
07:22.26Theme97Hmm.
07:22.43Theme97If it jitters (left and right) without missing a beat, it's probably a bot.
07:22.54Theme97But I don't know if it does that with no jumping.
07:23.06blast007solo bots don't jitter
07:23.33Theme97And they don't jump...
07:23.35blast007autopilot bots do, when they get close to you
07:23.41Theme97Ahh.
07:23.57Theme97...
07:23.58blast007(jitter, that is)
07:24.00Theme97Roger sucks anyway.
07:24.13blast007and they jump when shot at, and they're supposed to jump over obstacles
07:24.15Theme97Someone should take Roger to tank school.
07:24.18Flashare there other autopilots in the wild?
07:24.27Theme97"the wild"?
07:24.39blast007yeah, we have an open season right now to control their numbers
07:25.06Theme97They
07:25.08Flashpublicly available code base (not necessarily part of the BZflag project)
07:25.27Theme97Ahh...
07:25.36Theme97I don't think people make bots.
07:25.41Theme97With their own AI, that is.
07:25.46blast007there's nothing to stop someone from modifying the autopilot AI
07:26.00Theme97... Oh, right.
07:26.12Flashthere's that whole #ifdef ROBOTS thing...
07:26.13Theme97I remember someone doing that to cheat.
07:26.25blast007that's for -solo bots
07:28.26Flashso you don't think there's any natural occurrence of people sending unattended bots into servers?
07:28.40Flashas opposed to joining and running autopilot
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07:33.29Flashusually, when someone is on autopilot, it shows [a] next to their name, right?
07:33.35Theme97[auto]
07:33.37Theme97but not always
07:33.48Theme97when you join AFTER autopilot is turned on, it's not shown
07:33.54Theme97because your client never received the autopilot message
07:34.31Theme97and if you do the glitch where you turn on autopilot when your token is being verified, nobody will see it
07:35.01Theme97which is fixed in 2.1
07:37.13Theme97will the autopilot message be sent to players on join in 2.1?
07:38.43FlashI can't seem to turn autopilot on before joining
07:38.52FlashI guess I'm an inadequate cheater
07:39.35spldartheh
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08:31.10infernoxhi
08:31.28infernoxhehe I figured it out this bzfag is  a game
08:31.29infernox:)
08:32.07infernoxdamn I have to figure out the controls of this tank
08:32.13blast007bzflag*
08:32.28infernoxbut for the first time it looks cool
08:32.58infernoxoh sorry I want to say flag
08:32.59infernox^^
08:33.15blast007;)
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10:11.26*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ
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15:07.25zee693hi
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15:27.42spldart[cookie_monster] Hel'lo Evoreebodee [/cookie_monster]
15:32.36inchwormhi spldart
15:36.15spldart:)
15:38.40CBGWelcome to the land of the addicted.
15:51.41spldartchange machines
15:53.27biggerunivers1CBG!
15:53.38biggerunivers1oh
15:53.52biggerunivers1NickServ biggeruniverse
15:54.00biggerunivers1heh wrong command
15:54.08biggerunivers1who do I switch ids?
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15:55.24biggeruniverseCBG!
15:55.26biggeruniversethat's better
16:00.10CBGHi. :)
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16:12.12spldartHoly crap all my neighbors are sucking bandwidth 8-0
16:15.49spldartis list server intermittently slow today?
16:16.53brlcadno, it just rotated the logs though, so the server reset
16:16.53spldartAh
16:16.58brlcaddoes that once a day, takes about 30 seconds
16:19.01brlcadroughly at least, fluctuates with activity
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16:38.06spldartoopsy.... case temp alarm.. to much bzflag
16:38.44spldartactually forgot to turn on ventilation for the cubby that the machine is sitting
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19:54.06Wandahi, could someone pse tell me, what is the meaning of the '+' in front of a name in the score list?
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19:56.00[NP]TangentWanda, it means your callsign/password were verified
19:57.09Wandaoh, thnx .
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21:53.21L4m3rhttp://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e380/xxNeonxx/1337liekjeffk.jpg :D
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23:00.47FlashBenUrban: you keep beer near your connection?
23:00.58BenUrbansure, why not
23:00.59BenUrban:)
23:01.09BenUrbanwondering when someone would notice the change
23:01.44Flashactually, I just changed my client to display the quit/part reasons (I've been missing them)
23:02.07BenUrbanah
23:02.37BenUrbannah, i don't drink, but i figured it's a funny message to have

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