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| 04:35.54 | uso | JeffM2501: there's a typo in the format string in src/bzflag/HUDRenderer.cxx, line 807, v2_0branch |
| 04:46.23 | brlcad | typo? |
| 04:47.15 | brlcad | uso: helps to say what the typo is too |
| 04:47.40 | uso | a $ instead of a % |
| 04:47.58 | uso | so the number of arguments mismatch |
| 04:48.13 | brlcad | hmm.. |
| 04:49.39 | brlcad | ahh, was out of date |
| 04:49.57 | uso | r2.42.2.15, in case anon is behind |
| 04:52.01 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/HUDRenderer.cxx: format typo, thx uso |
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| 06:12.15 | HighKarateKitty | is there an admin for bzfusion here?? |
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| 06:26.49 | EbErT | i can't seem to connect to servers, but my internet is up. anything going on with the list at least? |
| 06:28.29 | HighKarateKitty | hi Ebert |
| 06:28.42 | EbErT | heya |
| 06:28.45 | HighKarateKitty | I cant get on the player list so maybe some are down |
| 06:28.58 | EbErT | some of the servers look to be down too |
| 06:29.00 | HighKarateKitty | do you know who is admin for bzfusion |
| 06:29.17 | EbErT | at least hepcat is down |
| 06:29.18 | HighKarateKitty | we need a flag reset |
| 06:29.19 | EbErT | no, i don't |
| 06:29.26 | HighKarateKitty | ok |
| 06:29.42 | HighKarateKitty | come join us on bzfusion fun |
| 06:29.48 | EbErT | heh, where? |
| 06:29.59 | HighKarateKitty | sec |
| 06:30.47 | HighKarateKitty | Missle War at the top of the list |
| 06:30.59 | EbErT | lemme see if list is up for me |
| 06:31.11 | HighKarateKitty | ok im going back |
| 06:31.55 | EbErT | ok, nothing is connecting for me |
| 06:32.02 | EbErT | cu then kitty |
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| 09:03.45 | HighKarateKitty | bye all |
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| 11:04.12 | Skeeve | Hi there! Is a developer in the chat? Someone who can answer a question regarding joystick/mouse? |
| 11:06.10 | Skeeve | Maybe DTRemenak? |
| 11:10.06 | CBG | hi Skeeve |
| 11:10.43 | CBG | Most of them are in the USA and work, so you'll be better off trying to catch them in the evening, their time. |
| 11:17.32 | Skeeve | Okay. Thanks |
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| 14:10.35 | Minkus | hi all |
| 14:10.51 | Minkus | was wondering if someone could give me some advice |
| 14:12.01 | Minkus | anyone there? |
| 14:12.33 | PuMpErNiCkLe | What's your question? |
| 14:15.01 | Minkus | have found a bug in bzflag that i reported ages ago on sourceforge |
| 14:15.19 | Minkus | it's a real show-stopper in the environment i am in (can't join the game) |
| 14:15.31 | Minkus | and i don't think it'd be hard to fix |
| 14:15.47 | Minkus | but it's been sitting around in sourceforge for about 2 years now and nothing done to it |
| 14:15.54 | Minkus | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=987914&group_id=3248&atid=103248 |
| 14:16.04 | Matt123 | have you tried an updated version? |
| 14:16.09 | Minkus | oh yes :) |
| 14:16.11 | Matt123 | bzflag 2.0.8 |
| 14:16.25 | Minkus | it was a problem way back in bzflag 1.10.6-1 |
| 14:16.39 | Minkus | back then it just meant that your settings didn't get saved when you quit the game |
| 14:16.44 | Minkus | now it means that you can't connect to the server |
| 14:17.03 | Minkus | you get a 'World cache files disappeared' error |
| 14:17.12 | Minkus | (since version 2) |
| 14:18.04 | Minkus | have documented all this on sourceforge and also increased the priority but noone seems to be taking any notice |
| 14:19.25 | Minkus | it's definately still a problem in 2.0.8 |
| 14:19.45 | Minkus | what's the best way of getting the dev's attention? |
| 14:20.08 | CBG | Come shout at them here, later on. |
| 14:20.19 | Minkus | :) how much 'later' on? |
| 14:20.21 | CBG | Most of them are in the USA and work during the day. |
| 14:20.25 | Minkus | ah |
| 14:20.29 | CBG | So, evening, USA time. |
| 14:20.38 | CBG | That's probably around midnight GMT. |
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| 14:20.55 | Minkus | :) ok. i'll give that a try |
| 14:20.57 | CBG | (depending on what US timezone, etc). |
| 14:21.09 | Minkus | are some of them here most days? |
| 14:21.18 | CBG | Most are here most days. |
| 14:21.37 | Minkus | excellent. thx for advice |
| 14:22.01 | CBG | If you can come back in about, 9, maybe 10 hours, you'll be able to get hold of at least one of the main devs. :) |
| 14:22.12 | Mr_Molez | they will be on earlier than that |
| 14:22.16 | Mr_Molez | about 5 hrs at most |
| 14:22.33 | Minkus | ok |
| 14:22.41 | CBG | Oh, ok... I never paid that much attention. :P |
| 14:23.10 | Minkus | so late evening my time |
| 14:23.10 | Minkus | that's do-able |
| 14:23.11 | Minkus | thanks a lot |
| 14:23.15 | CBG | Where are you, Minkus? Europe? |
| 14:23.21 | [dmp] | otherwise sf's bug report works too :) |
| 14:23.35 | Minkus | england |
| 14:23.39 | CBG | meacan!!!! :D welcome back! |
| 14:23.43 | [dmp] | CBG: :-) |
| 14:24.02 | Minkus | have tried the sf bug report, unfortunately as i said the bug has been open for 2 years and nothing done! |
| 14:24.19 | CBG | Minkus: yeah, if You assume they are about 5 hours behind us, they'll get out of work around 10PM your (our) time. |
| 14:24.30 | Minkus | k |
| 14:24.57 | CBG | If I remember, I can post the link to them, for you. |
| 14:25.00 | [dmp] | Minkus: you could add a comment to tell that this is stil an problem. Wouldnt hurt if others see it |
| 14:25.32 | Minkus | CBG: That would be great, altho i'll try to turn up myself as well in case they have any qs |
| 14:25.47 | CBG | :) |
| 14:26.02 | Minkus | dmp: have done so already, to let them know that it's got more severe since version 2 |
| 14:26.58 | Minkus | neway must go now, maybe see you guys later |
| 14:27.03 | Minkus | thanks again |
| 14:27.15 | CBG | Cya! |
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| 14:44.18 | SportChick | brlcad: pingy |
| 15:13.46 | tokimi | ~cvs20 |
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| 15:17.13 | RatOmeter | Hey, sleepery Jeem DiGriz |
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| 15:38.56 | orange | does the lag/jitter measurement only measure the server's perceived delays from the client sending data to the server? |
| 15:44.10 | Chestal | orange: lag is round trip time S->C->S for probe messages. jitter is based on delta t of server receiving MsgUpdate packets and the client timestamps in those packets |
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| 15:53.06 | ATD_ | would one of the ops here figure out why A_Meteorite is banned from #bzflag? |
| 15:54.05 | RatOmeter | I saw a_meteorite here yesterday |
| 15:56.43 | orange | Chestal: so presumably a downstream glitch from server->client could cause a visible jump of other players, without showing up in stats |
| 15:57.23 | orange | nvm chestal, I see your answer is basically yes (in another channel :-) |
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| 16:10.10 | DTRemenak | Skeeve: I'm here |
| 16:11.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b *!*@*.dedicated.abac.net] by JeffM2501 |
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| 22:12.41 | Skeeve | Hi DTRemenak! Still there? |
| 22:12.54 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 22:13.53 | Skeeve | I have implemented my patch but didn't see any difference in speed when driving. I've checked with cout << x that the value is really 500 instead of the standard max of 1000 |
| 22:14.09 | Skeeve | Is there anything I should know about those values (2.0.8) |
| 22:14.17 | Skeeve | 2.0.8 ) was that |
| 22:14.43 | DTRemenak | hmm...I think I'm missing context here. what patch, what value? :) |
| 22:14.56 | Skeeve | Okay... My Half-Speed Patch |
| 22:15.04 | DTRemenak | ah, ok |
| 22:15.07 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 22:15.08 | Skeeve | When using the second stick on a gamepad |
| 22:15.11 | DTRemenak | x values are turning |
| 22:15.19 | DTRemenak | y is speed |
| 22:15.37 | Skeeve | same for y, so even when there was 500, I didn't notice a difference |
| 22:15.49 | DTRemenak | hm, that's odd |
| 22:15.58 | Skeeve | I'll go and check again |
| 22:17.56 | Skeeve | BTW: I can't implement it for anything but SDL, but the GUI Options wil be there. Is there anyone who might be able to help? |
| 22:18.20 | JeffM2501 | isn't here a _HAVESDL define? |
| 22:18.21 | DTRemenak | yeah, don't worry about that |
| 22:18.43 | DTRemenak | using HAVE_* variables in menus messes up the counters used in resize(), JeffM2501 :) |
| 22:18.55 | DTRemenak | ends up requiring a lot more code |
| 22:19.07 | DTRemenak | better just to have an N/A option in the item if it's not available |
| 22:19.12 | JeffM2501 | well it's reasonable that we will have options that don't exist on all platforms |
| 22:19.19 | Skeeve | I already have |
| 22:19.26 | JeffM2501 | so we should add support for variable numbers of items |
| 22:19.39 | Skeeve | If there are less than 4 axes N/A is the only option |
| 22:19.48 | JeffM2501 | maybe that support should go into the base menu system |
| 22:19.54 | Skeeve | N/A is the default option |
| 22:20.14 | JeffM2501 | Skeeve, for what your doing that's fine |
| 22:20.18 | DTRemenak | the problem is not that there's a variable number, it's that the ones that come after it have to be moved around if you don't want a giant gap |
| 22:20.41 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, and the lists can't auto resize? |
| 22:21.00 | DTRemenak | positioning is done on a per-element basis |
| 22:21.08 | JeffM2501 | then maybe that should be changed |
| 22:21.17 | JeffM2501 | but then again, it's not like it'll change at runtime |
| 22:21.51 | DTRemenak | changing that would make things a lot more complicated, because of desired gaps, and items which are not placed in a straight list |
| 22:22.07 | JeffM2501 | maybe then add a gap item |
| 22:22.14 | JeffM2501 | I'm just thinkin out loud |
| 22:22.35 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't seem like it should be that hard to make a menu system that can adapt itself |
| 22:22.39 | DTRemenak | I've thought about that, certainly. adding a gap item and making the lists more intelligent would be a good start |
| 22:22.42 | JeffM2501 | rather then having a bunch of "NA" things |
| 22:22.50 | DTRemenak | but there are still cases that don't work with that |
| 22:23.08 | JeffM2501 | unless we totaly change how the menus are done |
| 22:23.33 | DTRemenak | yeah, we could redesign all of the menus. seems kinda wasteful though |
| 22:23.50 | JeffM2501 | well unless you make them all cool |
| 22:23.53 | JeffM2501 | and new user friendly |
| 22:23.53 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 22:23.59 | JeffM2501 | with little tool tip popups |
| 22:24.03 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 22:24.06 | JeffM2501 | and a slcik new server list |
| 22:24.14 | JeffM2501 | then, not realy wastefull |
| 22:24.20 | DTRemenak | ooh, that's an interesting idea |
| 22:24.25 | JeffM2501 | and make it so they can be clicked on |
| 22:24.32 | DTRemenak | heh, silly mice |
| 22:24.44 | JeffM2501 | why have an arrow if you can't click anything |
| 22:24.48 | JeffM2501 | that is wastefull |
| 22:24.54 | DTRemenak | you use it to shoot |
| 22:24.58 | DTRemenak | and drive |
| 22:25.13 | DTRemenak | and yes, I shoot and drive while I am in the menu :) |
| 22:25.14 | JeffM2501 | then it should be a drive/shoot thingy, not the OS cursor ;) |
| 22:25.20 | JeffM2501 | not realy intutiive |
| 22:25.32 | DTRemenak | that is a point :) |
| 22:25.46 | DTRemenak | or a pointer, as the case may be |
| 22:28.08 | Skeeve | As I said... No noticable difference. Is there something I can see the speed I'm driving at with? |
| 22:28.19 | Skeeve | Somewhere I can put a test cout? |
| 22:28.28 | JeffM2501 | you have to compute the speed |
| 22:28.48 | JeffM2501 | just do pythoreans on the velocity |
| 22:28.51 | JeffM2501 | in X and Y |
| 22:28.57 | JeffM2501 | then dump that out |
| 22:29.19 | Skeeve | Jeff, when the joystick routine gives -500 the speed should be half of -1000 right? |
| 22:29.35 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 22:29.42 | Skeeve | :-( |
| 22:29.49 | JeffM2501 | I know little of the sticks |
| 22:30.03 | JeffM2501 | does it do a current/max ? |
| 22:30.06 | JeffM2501 | to get a param? |
| 22:30.20 | Skeeve | I know little too ;-) |
| 22:30.25 | JeffM2501 | you moded it |
| 22:30.41 | JeffM2501 | IIRC the final output of the stick stuff sould be a value from -1 to 1 |
| 22:30.52 | Skeeve | Yes, but just inside the routine that gets the current position |
| 22:31.03 | Skeeve | It is one from -1000 to 1000 |
| 22:31.23 | JeffM2501 | seems odd |
| 22:31.49 | JeffM2501 | that we'd pick 1000 as the abstracted value |
| 22:31.54 | Skeeve | in SDL Routines the values are from -32767 - 32768 and then scaled to -1000 to 1000 |
| 22:32.29 | JeffM2501 | well when it's used it has to be divided by 1000 to get a percentange of the speed |
| 22:32.32 | JeffM2501 | where does it do that? |
| 22:32.46 | Skeeve | I thought so |
| 22:33.06 | Skeeve | So I scaled the second stick to -500 - 500 |
| 22:33.22 | JeffM2501 | so then 500/500 = 100% |
| 22:33.26 | Skeeve | it's in SDL_Joystick.cxx |
| 22:33.31 | JeffM2501 | you want to let it keep the max at 1000 |
| 22:33.33 | JeffM2501 | not 500 |
| 22:33.37 | *** join/#bzflag Minkus (i=Minkus@cpc3-colc4-0-0-cust99.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:33.41 | JeffM2501 | just scale the input value, not both sides |
| 22:33.48 | Skeeve | Yes, but I return it instead of the first stick's value |
| 22:34.01 | JeffM2501 | where does it get the 1000 from? |
| 22:34.05 | JeffM2501 | is it hardcoded? |
| 22:34.05 | Skeeve | I'll paste, ok? |
| 22:34.08 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 22:34.17 | JeffM2501 | just look it up :) |
| 22:34.20 | Skeeve | It's not hardcoded |
| 22:34.29 | JeffM2501 | then where does it come from? |
| 22:34.38 | Skeeve | I've put an option to select the halfspeed axes |
| 22:34.52 | JeffM2501 | where does the 1000 come from for a normal stick? |
| 22:35.08 | Skeeve | Ah! That's hardcoded |
| 22:35.20 | JeffM2501 | did you change that hardcode? |
| 22:35.21 | Skeeve | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:35.24 | Skeeve | Nope |
| 22:35.37 | JeffM2501 | that's converting too 1000 |
| 22:35.44 | Skeeve | Yes. The scaling |
| 22:35.49 | JeffM2501 | that gets you between -1000 to 1000 |
| 22:35.57 | Skeeve | After that we have |
| 22:36.02 | JeffM2501 | after that it has to be converted to sped multiplyer |
| 22:36.05 | Skeeve | x = (x * abs(x)) / 1000 |
| 22:36.16 | Skeeve | And that's the value returned |
| 22:36.25 | Skeeve | It's called "ballistic" |
| 22:36.37 | JeffM2501 | wtf |
| 22:36.43 | Skeeve | Making the value quadratic and than scaling again to 1000 |
| 22:36.54 | JeffM2501 | ok then after that |
| 22:37.01 | JeffM2501 | when is it applied to the tank speed? |
| 22:37.24 | Skeeve | After that, the values are handled by something I have no control of - meaning: I didn't mess with it |
| 22:37.40 | Skeeve | The only change I did is in that routine |
| 22:37.43 | JeffM2501 | so what |
| 22:37.46 | JeffM2501 | you have to know what it does |
| 22:37.55 | JeffM2501 | go find out what it does after that |
| 22:38.06 | JeffM2501 | if you have a problem with the speed, then you have to know how the speed is computed |
| 22:38.09 | JeffM2501 | right now your just guessing |
| 22:38.12 | Skeeve | but that routine doesn't know that my value comes from another stick! |
| 22:38.14 | JeffM2501 | guessing == bad |
| 22:38.25 | JeffM2501 | are you SURE about that? |
| 22:38.28 | JeffM2501 | go look and see |
| 22:38.48 | Skeeve | I couldn't really find it yet |
| 22:39.00 | Skeeve | I'll try again |
| 22:39.01 | JeffM2501 | put a break point, and step thru, see where it goes |
| 22:39.06 | JeffM2501 | it's not realy hard |
| 22:39.08 | Skeeve | :-( |
| 22:39.17 | Skeeve | I have no idea how to do that! |
| 22:39.24 | Skeeve | I'm a stuid perl programmer |
| 22:39.24 | JeffM2501 | you don't know how to use a debuger? |
| 22:39.27 | Skeeve | No C++ |
| 22:39.30 | JeffM2501 | learn how to use your debuger man |
| 22:39.33 | JeffM2501 | it's the best tool you have |
| 22:40.08 | Skeeve | I use the XTools but know nothing of them |
| 22:40.15 | JeffM2501 | then it's time to learn |
| 22:40.27 | JeffM2501 | ignorance is not a reason, it is a problem to be solved |
| 22:40.44 | Skeeve | ;-) |
| 22:41.48 | Skeeve | Okay... getJoy is called by MainWindow::getJoyPosition and divided by 900 |
| 22:42.03 | JeffM2501 | where do you see that? |
| 22:42.17 | JeffM2501 | I see no division |
| 22:42.23 | Skeeve | mx = ((width >> 1) * mx) / (900); |
| 22:42.25 | JeffM2501 | unless head is way difrent |
| 22:42.31 | Skeeve | I'm talking about 2.0.8 |
| 22:42.34 | JeffM2501 | voidMainWindow::getJoyPosition(int& jx, int& jy) const |
| 22:42.34 | JeffM2501 | { |
| 22:42.34 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:42.34 | JeffM2501 | } |
| 22:42.38 | JeffM2501 | that's all head has |
| 22:42.58 | Skeeve | I wanted to implement in 2.0.8 first |
| 22:43.07 | Skeeve | because that's what I use |
| 22:43.12 | JeffM2501 | why would head be so difrent |
| 22:43.13 | JeffM2501 | odd |
| 22:43.17 | Skeeve | When will the switch to 2.1 be? |
| 22:43.28 | JeffM2501 | well still put a break point, step thru see what your function is returning |
| 22:43.39 | Skeeve | Head is different because DTRemenak implemented some patches, IIRC |
| 22:43.41 | JeffM2501 | new dev is to be done in 2.1 right now |
| 22:43.53 | JeffM2501 | 2.2 will be released when it's released |
| 22:44.03 | Skeeve | I already know what it's returning because I have a cout << y yy endl there |
| 22:44.12 | JeffM2501 | ok then why isn't it working? |
| 22:44.22 | Skeeve | That's what I'm asking |
| 22:44.32 | JeffM2501 | that's what your debuger can tell you |
| 22:44.34 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 22:45.42 | JeffM2501 | step on thru with your 500 and find out why it's not geting scaled right |
| 22:46.12 | Skeeve | I'll first try it "mentaly" ;-) |
| 22:46.18 | JeffM2501 | why |
| 22:46.28 | JeffM2501 | when you have a tool to let you see EXACTLY what is going on |
| 22:46.31 | JeffM2501 | do not fear the debuger |
| 22:46.45 | Skeeve | Because that might be faster than finding where the debugger is and hw to use it |
| 22:46.49 | CBG | JeffM2501, DTRemenak, other devs, a chap was here about 8 hours ago looking for you guys. He has had a bug report at sf.net for something like 2 years now, since before 2.0.0. The link is: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=987914&group_id=3248&atid=103248 though he said he would try to come back later (around this time) to have a chat. |
| 22:47.05 | DTRemenak | ah, that bug |
| 22:47.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah we know about that |
| 22:47.15 | JeffM2501 | there isn't much we can do |
| 22:47.21 | JeffM2501 | you can tell bz to use another path tho |
| 22:47.37 | CBG | Ok, just passing it on. Maybe you can add a comment to the page...? |
| 22:47.47 | DTRemenak | iirc, we can fix it, actually |
| 22:47.52 | CBG | Since I'm no more likely to be able to pass on a message that you guys... |
| 22:47.53 | JeffM2501 | then fix it ;) |
| 22:48.00 | blast007 | really, the Group Policy should map a drive, and not use a UNC path |
| 22:48.12 | JeffM2501 | blast007, that's there choice |
| 22:48.14 | DTRemenak | blast007 is correct, which is why I have not fixed it :) |
| 22:48.17 | JeffM2501 | if we can work with both |
| 22:48.25 | JeffM2501 | it's valid to do ether or |
| 22:48.45 | JeffM2501 | it's not up to us to say how somone "should" set up there network |
| 22:48.56 | DTRemenak | no, but microsoft does |
| 22:49.02 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 22:49.11 | JeffM2501 | can it be fixed? or what? |
| 22:49.25 | blast007 | however, the fact that there is a Group Policy suggest he is at a workplace or a school ;) |
| 22:49.30 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 22:49.30 | JeffM2501 | so |
| 22:49.37 | JeffM2501 | the WHY isn't the point |
| 22:50.05 | DTRemenak | why doesn't matter...microsofts guidelines say it's a bad idea to set my documents to a unc path. I'm trying to find the link. |
| 22:50.25 | JeffM2501 | so then we close the bug and say use -configdir |
| 22:50.29 | JeffM2501 | or we fix it |
| 22:50.29 | blast007 | he was saying he thinks he found the issue, but I haven't looked at the code |
| 22:50.33 | JeffM2501 | those are our choices |
| 22:50.40 | JeffM2501 | we should not preach him how to do his network |
| 22:50.53 | JeffM2501 | even if MS is on our side |
| 22:51.04 | DTRemenak | we should fix it, which is why I have not closed the bug :) |
| 22:51.11 | JeffM2501 | how hard is it to fix? |
| 22:51.33 | DTRemenak | don't remember. I think we have to change some logic, and then use a different function to get a file handle, or something of that nature |
| 22:51.44 | JeffM2501 | can't just call Fopen? |
| 22:52.06 | JeffM2501 | that may be some rather invasive changes if we have to change the opens |
| 22:52.27 | JeffM2501 | could make everyone call OSFile and just make OS file handle it |
| 22:53.50 | DTRemenak | looks like fopen should work |
| 22:54.04 | Skeeve | Okay :-( I found something... The joystick reaches full speed far before the top is reached |
| 22:54.10 | DTRemenak | "UNC paths and paths involving mapped network drives are accepted by fopen as long as the system executing the code has access to the share or mapped network drive at the time of execution. " |
| 22:54.21 | Skeeve | I'll trash 2.0.8 and do it in 2.1 now |
| 22:54.37 | JeffM2501 | so then we can't realy fix it with out changing all of our code |
| 22:54.43 | JeffM2501 | or a lot of it |
| 22:54.52 | JeffM2501 | since there are a number of places that will access the config dir |
| 22:55.09 | JeffM2501 | Skeeve, why? because you won't use the debuger? |
| 22:55.15 | Skeeve | No |
| 22:55.22 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: fopen *should* work |
| 22:55.32 | Skeeve | Because I don't want to fix something that might be fixed in 2.1 |
| 22:55.32 | DTRemenak | not should not |
| 22:55.35 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, Ih he's connected |
| 22:55.50 | DTRemenak | right...if he's not connected, do you expect it to work? :) |
| 22:56.02 | JeffM2501 | I epected it to reopen the conection |
| 22:56.10 | JeffM2501 | that's the part that dosn't work on MS |
| 22:56.16 | JeffM2501 | that's why the sugest a network drive |
| 22:56.43 | JeffM2501 | I'll be the MS file handling would extablish the conection |
| 22:56.45 | JeffM2501 | bet |
| 22:56.49 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 22:56.55 | JeffM2501 | so realy we can't fix it easy |
| 22:57.03 | JeffM2501 | and his solution is to use -configdir |
| 22:57.04 | DTRemenak | huh? |
| 22:57.05 | JeffM2501 | to do a local |
| 22:57.06 | DTRemenak | you've lost me |
| 22:57.17 | DTRemenak | fopen works if the system has access to the remote folder |
| 22:57.32 | JeffM2501 | you think it works if the system dosn't have a current conection? |
| 22:57.46 | JeffM2501 | cus if he has access, then it would work now |
| 22:57.49 | DTRemenak | yeah, the file layer should handle that |
| 22:57.53 | JeffM2501 | but it isn't |
| 22:57.56 | DTRemenak | no, some of our logic is wrong also, iirc |
| 22:58.10 | JeffM2501 | all we do is call the getspecialfolderpath |
| 22:58.12 | DTRemenak | we read off \'s when we're on windows |
| 22:58.15 | DTRemenak | but / is valid |
| 22:58.16 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-15-152-66.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:58.20 | DTRemenak | and required for unc |
| 22:58.23 | JeffM2501 | ohh |
| 22:58.28 | JeffM2501 | we should leave // |
| 22:58.30 | DTRemenak | iirc |
| 22:58.34 | JeffM2501 | that does make sense |
| 22:58.40 | DTRemenak | something is messy somewhere |
| 22:58.53 | JeffM2501 | realy should just shove it all into the registry :) |
| 22:58.56 | DTRemenak | or maybe we use / and \ is required |
| 22:59.11 | DTRemenak | I can't ever remember the unc rules |
| 22:59.15 | DTRemenak | but they're different |
| 22:59.17 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-15-152-66.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:59.21 | DTRemenak | on local paths you can use either or both |
| 22:59.46 | JeffM2501 | \\servername gets me there in a run dialog |
| 22:59.47 | DTRemenak | and we use a mixture...like c:\documents and settings\user\my documents\bzflag/worlds/thisworld.bzw |
| 22:59.54 | JeffM2501 | / dosn't |
| 22:59.59 | JeffM2501 | we do? |
| 23:00.02 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 23:00.08 | JeffM2501 | realy we should use osfile, it handles all that |
| 23:00.14 | DTRemenak | probably so |
| 23:00.26 | DTRemenak | you wanna change every file access to use osfile? :) |
| 23:00.41 | JeffM2501 | OS file dosn't have stream support |
| 23:00.45 | DTRemenak | we have hardcoded paths places too |
| 23:01.08 | JeffM2501 | we can keep them , as long as we keep them in unix format |
| 23:01.08 | DTRemenak | like fonts/fontname.png |
| 23:01.08 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-15-152-66.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:01.08 | JeffM2501 | then OS file will take care of it |
| 23:01.15 | JeffM2501 | OS file wants all input in unix format |
| 23:01.21 | DTRemenak | ah, ok |
| 23:01.32 | JeffM2501 | all it realy needs is stream support and tha'ts it |
| 23:01.39 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-15-152-66.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:01.44 | JeffM2501 | I have a new one with a lot more read/write stuff |
| 23:01.58 | JeffM2501 | then it'd be REALY easy to make it pull files from a virtual file system |
| 23:02.04 | JeffM2501 | like zip files :) |
| 23:02.05 | DTRemenak | does it have our fixes in it too? |
| 23:02.14 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 23:02.29 | JeffM2501 | I know at one point I took the stuff from BZ and added to it |
| 23:03.10 | JeffM2501 | mostly it's functions that read in the entire file and return it as a string, and stuff like that |
| 23:03.16 | JeffM2501 | ease of use stuff |
| 23:03.28 | DTRemenak | well, whatever you want to do. having it all in one place would be nice, for not just the unc stuff but vfs' also, as you mentioned :) |
| 23:03.41 | JeffM2501 | and ease of debuging :) |
| 23:03.45 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 23:04.06 | DTRemenak | anyway, if that bug submitter thinks he knows the problem, may as well let him tell us |
| 23:04.09 | JeffM2501 | Skeeve, you probaly need to do your 500 scale BEFORE the balistic stuff, not after (if you are doing it after ) |
| 23:04.14 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 23:04.15 | DTRemenak | I looked into it briefly |
| 23:04.31 | DTRemenak | but since I don't have a setup like that here, I couldn't test anything |
| 23:04.59 | Skeeve | I do it after |
| 23:05.05 | JeffM2501 | Skeeve, do it before |
| 23:05.08 | JeffM2501 | that's your problem |
| 23:05.13 | DTRemenak | after should work, just divide the results by two |
| 23:05.20 | JeffM2501 | the balistic part makes it non liniar |
| 23:05.24 | JeffM2501 | or just do it before ;) |
| 23:05.25 | Skeeve | Okay... But then I will get 250 not 500 as max |
| 23:05.30 | JeffM2501 | Skeeve, yes |
| 23:05.32 | DTRemenak | huh? |
| 23:06.06 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, with -configdir you could make your config forced to a network path ;) |
| 23:06.22 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: I mean, I don't have any network paths :) |
| 23:06.23 | JeffM2501 | -configdir //mycomputer/myshare/ |
| 23:06.28 | DTRemenak | this is my only windows machine |
| 23:06.28 | JeffM2501 | share your own dir |
| 23:06.32 | DTRemenak | ahh |
| 23:06.35 | DTRemenak | nifty |
| 23:06.36 | JeffM2501 | then access it via the network |
| 23:06.44 | DTRemenak | didn't think of that |
| 23:06.50 | Skeeve | Argh! Is there a way to move a bzflag-window if not in full-screen mode? |
| 23:06.55 | DTRemenak | F1 |
| 23:07.07 | Skeeve | I know how to toggle |
| 23:07.12 | JeffM2501 | I use that trick to map folders to drives :) |
| 23:07.17 | Skeeve | but how can I move the window to another position |
| 23:07.24 | JeffM2501 | install windows |
| 23:07.26 | DTRemenak | tell it not to constrain mouse |
| 23:07.27 | blast007 | Skeeve: linux? turn off the option to capture the mouse |
| 23:07.28 | DTRemenak | then move the mouse |
| 23:07.32 | blast007 | I forget what it's called |
| 23:07.33 | Skeeve | as soon as I click the frame, BBZ is active and the window isn't moved |
| 23:07.53 | blast007 | Skeeve: there is an option in the Input Options screen |
| 23:07.55 | Skeeve | Okay. I'll try |
| 23:08.15 | Skeeve | "confine mouse" I've always asked myself what this means |
| 23:08.20 | DTRemenak | or specify it on the commandline...-geometry should allow a startup position |
| 23:08.30 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, when you install windows on a non C drive, you can share the root drive, and then map it to C and make old software happy :) |
| 23:08.45 | blast007 | heh... |
| 23:08.49 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: funny, I never had any software that cared that C wasn't root |
| 23:08.57 | JeffM2501 | some REALY old installers do |
| 23:08.58 | Skeeve | Ahhh! It's the "confine mouse" |
| 23:09.00 | JeffM2501 | and 95 apps |
| 23:09.09 | DTRemenak | I always ran windows 3.1 with only msdos.sys and io.sys on c: |
| 23:09.18 | JeffM2501 | at least you had one |
| 23:09.27 | JeffM2501 | with the NT ones you can not have a C |
| 23:09.33 | JeffM2501 | if you do stuff in an odd order |
| 23:09.41 | DTRemenak | true, and there were some really stupid installers that copied stuff onto c anyway |
| 23:09.44 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:09.51 | JeffM2501 | hardcode c:\temp |
| 23:10.04 | DTRemenak | most of those would use $TMP if it was set |
| 23:10.25 | DTRemenak | a few hardcoded c:\windows\system |
| 23:10.36 | DTRemenak | which is exceedingly stupid |
| 23:10.47 | DTRemenak | since my windows was in e:\win31 |
| 23:10.53 | JeffM2501 | 31 |
| 23:10.55 | JeffM2501 | ha |
| 23:11.16 | DTRemenak | hey, I didn't say it was recently :) |
| 23:12.48 | Skeeve | Good Idea, jeff...! The 250 gave me (almost) half speed. A bit less, but that's okay |
| 23:13.07 | JeffM2501 | you weren't returning the code in the same scale |
| 23:13.25 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, why didn't you do the stick stuff as a float? |
| 23:13.26 | Skeeve | ??? |
| 23:13.29 | JeffM2501 | why the 1000 stuff? |
| 23:13.33 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: I didn't do it :) |
| 23:13.36 | JeffM2501 | who did? |
| 23:13.38 | JeffM2501 | seems dumb |
| 23:13.39 | DTRemenak | that's Tuponified code |
| 23:13.42 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 23:13.48 | Skeeve | Tuponified? |
| 23:13.51 | JeffM2501 | that limits the granualrity |
| 23:14.00 | JeffM2501 | signifigantly |
| 23:14.07 | DTRemenak | heh, as if any stick uses that granularity |
| 23:14.20 | DTRemenak | as if your hand can control it that finely :) |
| 23:14.21 | JeffM2501 | some expensive visualisation stuff may |
| 23:14.29 | JeffM2501 | data gloves :) |
| 23:14.47 | JeffM2501 | eye scaners |
| 23:14.54 | Skeeve | I just imagine playing BZ Flag in an SGI Cave |
| 23:14.56 | JeffM2501 | direct brain implant! |
| 23:15.00 | DTRemenak | actually my logitech stick has a 10k granularity |
| 23:15.03 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure someone has |
| 23:15.18 | DTRemenak | but it jumps around so much on the LSDs, it doesn't matter |
| 23:15.19 | Skeeve | I'm sure I could have done that, had I asked |
| 23:15.21 | JeffM2501 | my big siatek one is prety nice |
| 23:16.02 | DTRemenak | heh, one of my friends has a three-part (five-axis) saitek stick |
| 23:16.06 | JeffM2501 | Skeeve, after the first divide and multiply, the value goes smoothly from 1000 to -1000 |
| 23:16.11 | Skeeve | What does Tuponified mean and what has it to do with my scaleing? |
| 23:16.16 | JeffM2501 | the balistic thing makes it not go on the same line |
| 23:16.17 | DTRemenak | uses two serial ports, and a keyboard intercept |
| 23:16.30 | JeffM2501 | Skeeve, it means tupone rewrote it |
| 23:16.35 | Skeeve | Okay |
| 23:16.37 | Skeeve | ;-) |
| 23:16.59 | Skeeve | May I ask you developers for a design decision? |
| 23:17.01 | DTRemenak | I'm not sure why he used ballistic compensation. it really shouldn't be necessary |
| 23:17.10 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 23:17.18 | JeffM2501 | I'd think normal linear and dead zone would be fine |
| 23:17.32 | JeffM2501 | maybe to get around not having a dead zone |
| 23:17.35 | DTRemenak | we have a normal deadzone |
| 23:17.39 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 23:17.42 | Skeeve | Right now I let the user select the axis for half speed |
| 23:17.43 | DTRemenak | hardcoded in playing.cxx |
| 23:17.44 | JeffM2501 | then wierd |
| 23:18.02 | JeffM2501 | tho on windows, OS can do deadzone |
| 23:18.11 | Skeeve | Shall I give him the option to select maximum speed too? |
| 23:18.12 | JeffM2501 | somewhat |
| 23:18.16 | JeffM2501 | him? |
| 23:18.18 | JeffM2501 | who him? |
| 23:18.21 | DTRemenak | the user |
| 23:18.23 | Skeeve | The user |
| 23:18.26 | JeffM2501 | or HER |
| 23:18.32 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:18.33 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 23:18.36 | DTRemenak | silly pc-ness |
| 23:18.40 | Skeeve | Yes or it |
| 23:18.41 | JeffM2501 | I'd not clutter the pannel too much |
| 23:18.45 | JeffM2501 | or make a new menu |
| 23:18.52 | JeffM2501 | a new menu may be better |
| 23:18.58 | JeffM2501 | then we could have one for each type |
| 23:19.00 | Skeeve | That panel isn't too much filled |
| 23:19.01 | DTRemenak | we don't need more menu pages |
| 23:19.07 | JeffM2501 | directX or SDL |
| 23:19.07 | Skeeve | It would be one option more |
| 23:19.07 | DTRemenak | we need less :) |
| 23:19.10 | JeffM2501 | sure we do |
| 23:19.16 | JeffM2501 | specialised dialogs man :) |
| 23:19.20 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:19.28 | JeffM2501 | not everyone uses sticks, why clutter everyone else's menu? |
| 23:19.50 | DTRemenak | so everyone else knows they have the option if they decide to use a stick |
| 23:19.55 | DTRemenak | visibility is important |
| 23:19.56 | JeffM2501 | I agree we need less on each one tho |
| 23:19.58 | Skeeve | If you put the stick options into a new menu |
| 23:20.03 | DTRemenak | burying things in 50 layers of menus is not the answer :) |
| 23:20.06 | Skeeve | I'll put mine there too |
| 23:20.10 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, they can see the button that says "joystick config" |
| 23:20.17 | blast007 | DTRemenak: add a 'search' option to the menu system ;) |
| 23:20.19 | JeffM2501 | naw not 50 |
| 23:20.20 | JeffM2501 | 3 |
| 23:20.27 | Skeeve | 53??? |
| 23:20.29 | JeffM2501 | mor then 3 is overkill |
| 23:20.30 | Skeeve | ;-) |
| 23:20.34 | DTRemenak | blast007: that is a wonderfully terrible idea |
| 23:20.38 | blast007 | hehe |
| 23:20.40 | JeffM2501 | tabs |
| 23:20.47 | JeffM2501 | tabs on the dialog panes then |
| 23:20.52 | DTRemenak | tabs are a nice paradigm |
| 23:21.00 | blast007 | that would be cool |
| 23:21.05 | Skeeve | Tabs especially for keyboard reconfig |
| 23:21.15 | Skeeve | That menu is AWFUL |
| 23:21.19 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 23:21.33 | DTRemenak | that's because everybody and his brother adds a key or two to it :) |
| 23:21.33 | JeffM2501 | the input page shoudl have a general page, and then tabs for keyboard, mouse, stick, etcc |
| 23:21.41 | Skeeve | You get Eye-Cancer just from looking at it |
| 23:21.43 | JeffM2501 | well we REALY need scrolling lists for long stuff |
| 23:21.46 | JeffM2501 | the page thing is sucky |
| 23:22.02 | DTRemenak | if it's that long, maybe it needs to be broken up |
| 23:22.14 | JeffM2501 | well some stuff like the list server makes sense to scroll |
| 23:22.22 | JeffM2501 | and maybe keys, but in general yes |
| 23:22.31 | DTRemenak | you don't like pages? :) |
| 23:22.32 | Skeeve | Nah... The keyboard page should be seperated into differnt tasks - driving, shooting, flag handling ... No scroll list |
| 23:22.36 | JeffM2501 | no I don't |
| 23:22.44 | DTRemenak | Skeeve's on the right track for keymapping |
| 23:22.47 | JeffM2501 | I have no visual indication where i am in the list |
| 23:22.59 | JeffM2501 | yes, many other games do that |
| 23:23.01 | JeffM2501 | on tabs |
| 23:23.02 | DTRemenak | it says page 3/40 |
| 23:23.02 | JeffM2501 | it's nice |
| 23:23.09 | DTRemenak | of course you know where it is :)_ |
| 23:23.13 | JeffM2501 | yeaht hat means READING |
| 23:23.17 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 23:23.20 | JeffM2501 | what if I can't read |
| 23:23.24 | JeffM2501 | cus I'm 4 |
| 23:23.29 | DTRemenak | then you should not play bzflag |
| 23:23.36 | Skeeve | Or ask your daddy |
| 23:23.38 | Skeeve | or mummy |
| 23:23.46 | JeffM2501 | no no, kid playing is part of our design goal |
| 23:23.47 | JeffM2501 | from tim |
| 23:23.52 | DTRemenak | oh nuts |
| 23:23.56 | JeffM2501 | "simple enough for a 3 year old to play" |
| 23:23.59 | JeffM2501 | he's said that before |
| 23:24.00 | blast007 | we should have pictures then, and no text |
| 23:24.05 | blast007 | :) |
| 23:24.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah we should actualy |
| 23:24.08 | Skeeve | YOU HAVE ONE YEAR! |
| 23:24.13 | Skeeve | THEN I WILL TEST YOU! |
| 23:24.20 | DTRemenak | unfortunately none of us are good graphic designers |
| 23:24.23 | JeffM2501 | instead of the jumping rico,e tc.. |
| 23:24.27 | blast007 | ascii art |
| 23:24.31 | JeffM2501 | saturos is |
| 23:24.34 | DTRemenak | unless we wanted to coerce satu into doing it |
| 23:24.35 | Skeeve | My son yesterday had birthday. He's 2 now |
| 23:24.38 | JeffM2501 | I think we just have to tell him want we want |
| 23:24.46 | JeffM2501 | I think he'd be happy to help us |
| 23:24.51 | DTRemenak | sweet. I like his work. |
| 23:24.55 | JeffM2501 | if we told him what we were looking for |
| 23:25.03 | blast007 | "we need, uh, 500 icons" |
| 23:25.04 | JeffM2501 | it's that overall design/goal he needs |
| 23:25.22 | JeffM2501 | well if we had a list of what they were, it would at least be dooable :) |
| 23:25.24 | Skeeve | If you use icons |
| 23:25.28 | Skeeve | YOU NEED tabs |
| 23:25.34 | DTRemenak | yay tabs |
| 23:25.40 | JeffM2501 | somone just has to do em |
| 23:25.46 | DTRemenak | yup, someone does |
| 23:25.55 | JeffM2501 | and come up with a clean way to swap them on the keyboard |
| 23:25.58 | Skeeve | If I can get a little help |
| 23:26.00 | Skeeve | ... |
| 23:26.09 | JeffM2501 | finish one thing first ;) |
| 23:26.17 | Skeeve | Maybe a general template for it |
| 23:26.32 | Skeeve | The half speed is almost done |
| 23:26.38 | Skeeve | at least for the sdl part |
| 23:26.43 | DTRemenak | "hold down tab, and press the third letter in the word which is represented by the icon on the tab" :) |
| 23:27.02 | CBG | o.O |
| 23:27.13 | Skeeve | I'll go and put it into 2.1 now |
| 23:27.50 | Skeeve | I just wanted to show that I'm willing to help. |
| 23:28.20 | Skeeve | I like the tab idea but I don't have enough experience with C++ to come up with my own implementation |
| 23:28.36 | Skeeve | I just need a "skeleton" to fill it with the options |
| 23:29.06 | Theme97 | Is an antimute perm going to be added? |
| 23:29.19 | Skeeve | So the "hard" work needs to be done by someone else. I can do the boring work then |
| 23:30.31 | blast007 | hehe, like the tabs for chat panel...my code was so horrible ;) I think brlcad had to fix it up |
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| 23:30.41 | blast007 | everything was hard coded |
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