| 00:00.07 | CBG | Step on it!! |
| 00:00.12 | amcnabb | :) |
| 00:00.26 | amcnabb | When a bot connects, it waits for a MsgAccept message. |
| 00:00.33 | amcnabb | If it doesn't get it, it bails out. |
| 00:00.44 | JeffM2501 | 2.1 or 2.0? |
| 00:00.49 | amcnabb | Unfortunately, sometimes MsgGameTime arrives before MsgAccept. |
| 00:01.53 | amcnabb | One sec. |
| 00:02.42 | amcnabb | It looks like it's 2.0 (I haven't done an cvs update in a while) |
| 00:02.46 | amcnabb | Has it been fixed? |
| 00:02.48 | TimRiker | amcnabb: sounds likely. should accept MsgGameTime first (if it comes) |
| 00:03.04 | JeffM2501 | it's been changed |
| 00:03.10 | JeffM2501 | probalby dude to that reason |
| 00:03.11 | amcnabb | That's good news. :) |
| 00:03.22 | JeffM2501 | tho the change breaks in other cases |
| 00:03.25 | TimRiker | amcnabb: are you on 2.1 with this? |
| 00:03.41 | amcnabb | I need to upgrade. I've been having bad luck with bzflag cvs for a long time. |
| 00:03.42 | JeffM2501 | 2.1 does a totaly difrent bot connect then 2.0 |
| 00:03.50 | amcnabb | That's great news. :) |
| 00:03.53 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: what other cases? older server don't send it so it needs to optionally expect it. |
| 00:04.17 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, like the case where it dosn't work at all ;) |
| 00:04.20 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: ahh, yeah. I need to check into that more. |
| 00:04.42 | JeffM2501 | I think there have been some fixes to it since tupone changed it |
| 00:04.58 | JeffM2501 | but since it's on one connect it can flood that connect at the driver/card buffer level |
| 00:05.09 | amcnabb | Has anonymous cvs been working well recently? |
| 00:05.44 | JeffM2501 | yes why would it not be? |
| 00:06.05 | amcnabb | There were horrible problems for a few months. I wasn't sure if they were completely ironed out. |
| 00:06.18 | JeffM2501 | SF replaced the entire CVS system |
| 00:06.25 | amcnabb | Cool. |
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| 01:59.11 | JeffM2501 | anyone against a masterban on axl rose? |
| 02:01.35 | orange | welcome to the jungle, axl |
| 02:05.14 | QuantumBeep | Mofo has had issues... so this is my up on it. |
| 02:05.20 | QuantumBeep | Issues with Axl, I mean |
| 02:07.18 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10admin/master-bans.txt: axl rose for inapropriate language, and web service abbuse |
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| 02:09.33 | Matt123 | is someone here an admin at tadd.dyndns.org:5155? there is a cheater that cant be killed there |
| 02:11.19 | SportChick | ~jeffm2501++ |
| 02:11.39 | JeffM2501 | masterban is not something to take glory in :( |
| 02:11.51 | tokimi | no, but fast action is |
| 02:11.54 | orange | solving problems is |
| 02:12.18 | JeffM2501 | not so sure if it "solves" problems |
| 02:12.26 | JeffM2501 | but it seems to make some people feel better |
| 02:12.29 | Matt123 | he has been in loads of servers |
| 02:12.33 | JeffM2501 | it some cases it can escalate the problem |
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| 02:54.38 | uso | though he(?) probably has a dyn ip |
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| 04:35.23 | dngor | Y'all rock. The BZFlag xcode project built successfully once I configured it in the proper order. |
| 04:38.00 | [NP]Tangent | hey tokimi, you think that the masterban on axl rose was fast action? |
| 04:38.06 | [NP]Tangent | I'm glad we masterbanned him |
| 04:38.19 | [NP]Tangent | but he's been harrassing players and servers for at least a month now |
| 04:38.24 | [NP]Tangent | he was on my server once |
| 04:38.44 | JeffM2501 | we? |
| 04:39.19 | [NP]Tangent | er |
| 04:39.22 | [NP]Tangent | I'm glad Jeff did |
| 04:39.36 | [NP]Tangent | gimme a break man, I've been doing marching band all day |
| 04:39.39 | [NP]Tangent | can't think anymore |
| 04:39.52 | JeffM2501 | what ever floats your boat man |
| 04:40.09 | [NP]Tangent | yeah |
| 04:40.11 | [NP]Tangent | what a day |
| 04:40.13 | JeffM2501 | a masterban is never a good thing tho |
| 04:40.19 | JeffM2501 | sad that it has to come to that :( |
| 04:40.43 | [NP]Tangent | 9 hours of marching band, 1 blown hard drive, and a ruined Ubuntu ISO = quite the day |
| 04:40.50 | [NP]Tangent | yeah, but axl rose had that coming |
| 04:41.05 | [NP]Tangent | he's been using inappropriate names over and over |
| 04:41.17 | [NP]Tangent | I remember the first time we noticed him it was on my server |
| 04:41.20 | JeffM2501 | that may be acceptable on some servers |
| 04:41.23 | [NP]Tangent | we told him to change his email string |
| 04:41.28 | JeffM2501 | it's not realy our place to do that |
| 04:41.51 | JeffM2501 | did you ban him localy? |
| 04:42.02 | [NP]Tangent | I did |
| 04:42.13 | [NP]Tangent | he just came back with a new, more offensive email string |
| 04:42.18 | JeffM2501 | then a masterban dosn't even affect you on that server |
| 04:42.23 | JeffM2501 | you baned by IP? |
| 04:42.29 | [NP]Tangent | yeah |
| 04:42.34 | JeffM2501 | then how did he come back? |
| 04:42.52 | [NP]Tangent | came back later in the day |
| 04:42.59 | JeffM2501 | how if he was banned? |
| 04:43.01 | [NP]Tangent | I just banned for an hour to start |
| 04:43.17 | [NP]Tangent | though, Jeff, know of a guy with the nickname Prophecy? |
| 04:43.25 | [NP]Tangent | not a bz player |
| 04:43.25 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 04:43.35 | [NP]Tangent | but evaded over 5000 glines on EnterTheGame irc |
| 04:43.44 | [NP]Tangent | so it happens |
| 04:43.47 | JeffM2501 | why would you not have banned him for longer when he came back |
| 04:43.54 | JeffM2501 | yes he would have had to change IPs |
| 04:44.03 | DTRemenak | axl rose is on a dynamic range iirc |
| 04:44.05 | JeffM2501 | and if he can change IPs then masterban will not help |
| 04:44.06 | [NP]Tangent | I banned him longer |
| 04:44.10 | JeffM2501 | then the masterban did nothing |
| 04:44.12 | DTRemenak | he caused a ton of trouble around a year ago |
| 04:44.16 | DTRemenak | I'm amazed he's still around |
| 04:44.35 | JeffM2501 | he will continue to be |
| 04:44.42 | JeffM2501 | as nothing realy happend to him |
| 04:44.54 | JeffM2501 | so realy you are happy for nothing. |
| 04:45.19 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, oh he's probably a regular just stiring up trouble |
| 04:45.25 | JeffM2501 | on an anon IP |
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| 13:59.17 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10admin/master-bans.txt: Fix Axl Rose entry - was inserted in the middle of mikeeusa's entry |
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| 15:42.38 | menotume | FYI: axl looks to have a static IP, he has been IP banned on league site for bzmails that he sent |
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| 15:45.37 | Mr_Molez | heh |
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| 15:52.27 | TD-Linux | is it possible to tell 2.1 ./configure to add a suffix to the bzflag executable? |
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| 16:10.52 | SportChick | Mr_Molez: ping |
| 16:11.10 | Mr_Molez | uhoh |
| 16:11.13 | Mr_Molez | pong |
| 16:11.19 | SportChick | :p don't "uhoh" me :p |
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| 16:29.52 | A-Delusion | ~logs |
| 16:29.54 | ibot | it has been said that logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
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| 17:01.52 | SportChick | JeffM2501: pingy |
| 17:01.52 | JeffM2501 | ? |
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| 17:26.04 | siggraph | last few hours *sniff* |
| 17:29.04 | JeffM2501 | can you find me a raytracing lib while you are there? ;) |
| 17:31.29 | TheBarron | real time raytraced bzflag? :) |
| 17:31.38 | SportChick | siggraph: how is it this year? |
| 17:32.20 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@fordend.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:32.32 | SpazzyMcGee | can you set the size of rain puddles? |
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| 17:33.31 | dngor | Real terrain would be sweeter, in the same vein as Treadmarks. |
| 17:33.31 | JeffM2501 | TheBarron, no |
| 17:33.40 | JeffM2501 | LOL TREADMAKRS |
| 17:33.42 | JeffM2501 | oh man |
| 17:33.45 | JeffM2501 | they still alive? |
| 17:33.48 | TheBarron | the weird rain.. like frogs, and shot-looking drops.. weird me out man :) |
| 17:33.51 | *** part/#bzflag moriah (n=d8ada652@zeebrothers.net) |
| 17:34.10 | JeffM2501 | I don't remember if I did puddle size |
| 17:34.12 | JeffM2501 | I'll look |
| 17:34.14 | dngor | Dunno. I never played treadmarks, not having a Windows machine and all... |
| 17:34.25 | JeffM2501 | dngor, we won't have terrain ever |
| 17:34.31 | JeffM2501 | treadmarks showed how hard it is |
| 17:34.57 | dngor | Oh? Interesting... |
| 17:35.20 | JeffM2501 | yeah a little |
| 17:35.28 | JeffM2501 | my roommate at the time was there main developer |
| 17:36.18 | dngor | It's kind of a bummer. I made an experimental map (monkeywars) using arcs as bars to jump around on... but you can't drive on an arc because the top's at an angle. |
| 17:36.19 | JeffM2501 | SpazzyMcGee, you can set the puddle time and puddle speed |
| 17:36.30 | JeffM2501 | that will end up as changing the max size |
| 17:36.39 | JeffM2501 | longer or faster will make them go bigger |
| 17:36.40 | TheBarron | hrm.. looks like a Boing Ball at the top of LDA games' page.. |
| 17:38.48 | TheBarron | JeffM2501: did they have any Amiga history? |
| 17:38.56 | JeffM2501 | oh no |
| 17:39.14 | TheBarron | the red and white ball is a curious coincidence then :) |
| 17:39.24 | JeffM2501 | it all started with one man, he made some games, then his famialy went out and published them |
| 17:39.34 | JeffM2501 | then he died :( |
| 17:39.38 | TheBarron | yeah, still looks to be a family affair |
| 17:39.52 | JeffM2501 | and then that is when they hired my roommate to be the developer |
| 17:40.46 | JeffM2501 | treadmarks has deformable terrain, was a big thing for it's day |
| 17:40.58 | TheBarron | but you're scared of terrain? :) |
| 17:41.07 | JeffM2501 | me, oh no |
| 17:41.18 | JeffM2501 | bzflag will not have terrain as a design descission |
| 17:41.24 | JeffM2501 | not any techincal reason |
| 17:41.30 | JeffM2501 | same for rotating turrets |
| 17:41.58 | TheBarron | ah |
| 17:42.11 | TheBarron | have wondered about the rotating turrets thing. What's the logic there? |
| 17:42.26 | JeffM2501 | it would make the game too complex |
| 17:42.33 | JeffM2501 | and change input all over the place |
| 17:42.39 | JeffM2501 | it woudl make it a very difrent game |
| 17:42.46 | TheBarron | true |
| 17:42.47 | JeffM2501 | one that isn't bzflag |
| 17:43.03 | JeffM2501 | so if somone wants to make that other game, that isn't bzflag. then somone is more then welcome to with the source ;) |
| 17:43.17 | TheBarron | ja |
| 17:43.52 | JeffM2501 | to do any sort of fun turret aiming, you allmost need to have the mouse drive the turret |
| 17:44.01 | JeffM2501 | so you get maximum controll granularity |
| 17:44.09 | JeffM2501 | and speed of responce |
| 17:44.19 | JeffM2501 | then it just becomes one shot kill quake |
| 17:44.42 | TheBarron | heh |
| 17:48.52 | siggraph | SportChick: great as always |
| 17:49.12 | siggraph | there is a great paper this year on realistic rendering of rain that I might give a stab at |
| 17:49.23 | SportChick | ahhh cool |
| 17:49.25 | siggraph | very impressive |
| 17:50.56 | dngor | How about moving objects? Hey, even better: Is there a FAQ on design decisions? |
| 17:57.45 | JeffM2501 | moving may go in at some point |
| 17:58.02 | JeffM2501 | to do it right we need better and tighter sync between the client and server gamestates |
| 17:58.10 | JeffM2501 | so everyone sees the same object in the same place |
| 17:58.42 | JeffM2501 | and no there isn't realy a document on it, it's just stuff Tim has said no too |
| 17:59.10 | dngor | I figure this class of question has a lot of redundancy... |
| 17:59.34 | JeffM2501 | it does |
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| 17:59.41 | JeffM2501 | there is a fourm post on it under enhancements |
| 17:59.44 | JeffM2501 | the sticky one |
| 17:59.52 | dngor | Great! [goes there] |
| 18:09.18 | TheBarron | what about spawn intelligence? :) |
| 18:09.25 | TheBarron | I just LOVE spawning right in front of a bullet |
| 18:09.39 | TheBarron | or.. under the same dude with shockwave 3 times in a row. That's awesome too :) |
| 18:09.41 | JeffM2501 | there are new spawn policys in 2.1 |
| 18:09.57 | JeffM2501 | and as we move more stuff to the server, the server can pick a better spawn for you |
| 18:12.34 | TheBarron | what's server req's like right now for a good experience with 20+ players? |
| 18:13.10 | JeffM2501 | bandwith or CPU? |
| 18:14.04 | TheBarron | cpu |
| 18:14.40 | blast007 | I can run 6 players on a 133Mhz ;) |
| 18:14.57 | JeffM2501 | bzfs is not cpu intensive at all |
| 18:15.12 | TheBarron | what's it gonna be like for 2.x? :) |
| 18:15.26 | JeffM2501 | depends what people put in |
| 18:15.33 | JeffM2501 | but even if we keep a full state, it won't be that much |
| 18:15.50 | blast007 | yeah, we're still thinking about putting in that Pi calculator, so that might have an impact |
| 18:15.52 | JeffM2501 | it'll be somewhat similar to what a client has to do, except no drawing |
| 18:16.22 | dngor | Hey, a pi calculator would rock. The mountains around my battlezone map are not quite circular. |
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| 18:16.29 | blast007 | hehe |
| 18:16.34 | TheBarron | damn non-circles |
| 18:18.13 | JeffM2501 | you can never have a true arc on a pixel display |
| 18:19.21 | TheBarron | uh-huH! can so! |
| 18:19.36 | JeffM2501 | nope, just bitmap aproximations |
| 18:19.43 | JeffM2501 | little stairsteps ;) |
| 18:19.55 | TheBarron | nu-uh! I'm right! Because.. I'm right! |
| 18:20.13 | TheBarron | I am a little pissed about the stagnation in the res of display devices, though :) |
| 18:20.29 | JeffM2501 | most people can't see more then 100dpi or so |
| 18:20.35 | JeffM2501 | just like frame rates |
| 18:20.42 | JeffM2501 | there is a wetware limit |
| 18:20.47 | JeffM2501 | so why bother with more |
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| 18:21.10 | TheBarron | well.. for example.. I wish my 21" LCDs had the dpi that my 11" notebook has |
| 18:21.20 | TheBarron | it's 1366x768 or such |
| 18:21.27 | TheBarron | can tell a diff |
| 18:21.32 | JeffM2501 | what res do your 21's run? |
| 18:21.43 | TheBarron | 1600x1200. sucks :) |
| 18:21.48 | TD-Linux | whoa |
| 18:21.54 | JeffM2501 | there are higher res 21s |
| 18:21.56 | TD-Linux | 1600x1200 is plenty for me :) |
| 18:22.12 | JeffM2501 | it's ok for most people |
| 18:22.19 | JeffM2501 | tho artists and desiners often want more |
| 18:22.20 | TheBarron | JeffM2501: sure. But at $600 a whack, spending work's money on these was stretching it :) |
| 18:22.48 | JeffM2501 | so then you can't complain about stagnation, you can just complain about you being poor |
| 18:22.53 | dngor | Well, you can do subsampling to antialias your arcs once the realtime raytracer is in. |
| 18:22.56 | JeffM2501 | it hasn't stagnated, you have ;) |
| 18:23.15 | JeffM2501 | dngor, that just makes the aproximation seem more acurate by bluring it ;) |
| 18:23.22 | JeffM2501 | it's still an aproximation |
| 18:23.44 | JeffM2501 | I have no problem with the res on my 24 |
| 18:23.48 | TheBarron | show me the 21" that has the dpi of my 1366x768 11", and I'll shut up :) |
| 18:24.08 | JeffM2501 | viewsonic makes a couple pro lines |
| 18:24.17 | JeffM2501 | one had 3200x2400 |
| 18:24.22 | dngor | It just needs to be good enough to fool the eye. |
| 18:24.39 | JeffM2501 | dngor, math is not in your eye ;) |
| 18:25.24 | TheBarron | you are talking about LCD, right? Because I'm talking about LCDs :) |
| 18:25.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:25.55 | JeffM2501 | thing cost 2500$ tho ;) |
| 18:26.42 | JeffM2501 | there is a high res display industry, it's just not realy there for consumer level stuff |
| 18:26.50 | JeffM2501 | cus they just don't sell well |
| 18:27.03 | TheBarron | 1920x1200 is best I'm finding on their site so far |
| 18:27.16 | JeffM2501 | that's standard for a 24 consumer |
| 18:27.23 | TD-Linux | the majority of people I know prefer smaller resolutions to larger ones :/ |
| 18:27.24 | JeffM2501 | they may not offer it via the consumer site anymore |
| 18:27.30 | JeffM2501 | I know it sold horibly |
| 18:27.52 | TheBarron | TD-Linux: because a) they're too dumb to change the windows display settings, and b) windows is still sorta too dumb to adjust properly |
| 18:27.55 | JeffM2501 | if you balk at 600$ for a display, then the high res stuff is WAY outa your leauge |
| 18:28.18 | TheBarron | Oh I don't balk exactly.. But work might ask questions when I buy a $2500 monitor :) |
| 18:28.24 | JeffM2501 | TheBarron, actualy at very high reses it makes single pixel lines blur |
| 18:28.32 | TD-Linux | TheBarron: I show them all how to change it, and they always seem to settle on 1024x768... |
| 18:28.34 | JeffM2501 | it's all a personal prefrence |
| 18:28.50 | JeffM2501 | 1920x1200 is quite a nice res |
| 18:28.53 | TheBarron | TD-Linux: well.. I mean the settings to adjust the size of things independent of the res |
| 18:29.04 | TD-Linux | though Windows graphics are usually designed for lower dpi |
| 18:29.08 | TD-Linux | hehe, yeah :) |
| 18:29.20 | TheBarron | anyway.. back to blowing up some tanks |
| 18:29.32 | TD-Linux | I give screenshots of my setup to Windows people, and on their monitors it looks HUGE! |
| 18:29.44 | JeffM2501 | that cus they run low reses |
| 18:30.00 | TD-Linux | even on high resolutoins, most windows fonts are very tiny |
| 18:30.03 | TD-Linux | 12-pt at most |
| 18:30.10 | JeffM2501 | that's just a setting man |
| 18:30.12 | JeffM2501 | you can change it |
| 18:30.39 | JeffM2501 | it's all true type.. it's scaleable |
| 18:30.40 | TD-Linux | okay |
| 18:30.44 | JeffM2501 | just like it is in X |
| 18:31.14 | TheBarron | found something: http://www.viewsonic.com/support/desktopdisplays/lcddisplays/proseries/vp2290b/ |
| 18:32.24 | JeffM2501 | seems ibm makes some too |
| 18:32.24 | JeffM2501 | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006HS5R/002-1933177-9080824?v=glance&n=172282 |
| 18:32.32 | TheBarron | now that's what I'm talking about :) |
| 18:32.33 | TD-Linux | $5,181.46 |
| 18:32.43 | JeffM2501 | they aint' cheap to make |
| 18:32.43 | TD-Linux | that's a bit steep |
| 18:32.53 | JeffM2501 | lot of pixels in that glass :) |
| 18:33.12 | Chestal | you have to compare $/pixel :-) |
| 18:33.12 | TheBarron | gotta be the same panel in those two.. |
| 18:33.24 | JeffM2501 | oh I'm sure there is one mfg that makes them |
| 18:33.28 | JeffM2501 | it's a specialty display |
| 18:33.43 | JeffM2501 | so the development of them hasn't stagnated, there is just no demand for them in the market. |
| 18:33.59 | JeffM2501 | not when lower res displays are so much cheaper and look fine for most other people |
| 18:34.05 | TheBarron | no demand for them -at the price- they currently cost :) |
| 18:34.19 | JeffM2501 | curent RES LCDs used to cost a lot more |
| 18:34.25 | TD-Linux | you could buy like.. 9 21" displays for that price |
| 18:34.25 | TheBarron | exactly |
| 18:34.31 | JeffM2501 | but they had demand, even at those prices so they came down |
| 18:34.32 | TheBarron | there's demand now that they're cheaper, eh? :) |
| 18:34.32 | TD-Linux | put them in a grid :) |
| 18:34.35 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:34.40 | TheBarron | besides.. one of the problems is the interface |
| 18:34.41 | TheBarron | bandwidth |
| 18:34.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah DVI can only hold so much |
| 18:34.56 | TheBarron | that 3200x2400 behemoth uses 4 TMDS digital interface |
| 18:34.56 | JeffM2501 | but for most it's fine |
| 18:34.59 | JeffM2501 | your just picky ;) |
| 18:35.09 | TheBarron | I'm just tired of making out the dots :) |
| 18:35.15 | TD-Linux | TMDS == DVI ? |
| 18:35.50 | TheBarron | maybe.. though there's a '4' in front of it :) |
| 18:35.56 | TD-Linux | I think the DVI connector has enough conductors for 4 TMDS... |
| 18:35.57 | JeffM2501 | then get a 19 that runs 1600x1200 |
| 18:36.06 | JeffM2501 | they exist |
| 18:36.16 | TheBarron | bah.. you're just being a pain :) |
| 18:36.18 | TD-Linux | but you would need a really expensive graphics card that supported 4 DVI in one connector |
| 18:36.26 | TheBarron | I want infinite resolution, cheap! Now! |
| 18:36.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah I guess logic does hurt sometimes. |
| 18:36.33 | TD-Linux | some of the higher ends support DualDVI, which is 2 TMDS |
| 18:36.37 | JeffM2501 | TheBarron, swap to a vector display |
| 18:36.45 | JeffM2501 | and just write your own X driver |
| 18:36.47 | TD-Linux | I mean, the higher end consumer videocards |
| 18:37.00 | JeffM2501 | then you can just have it use lasers to draw on your eye |
| 18:37.08 | TD-Linux | do they even make vector displays apart from spare parts for Asteroids? |
| 18:37.14 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 18:37.24 | JeffM2501 | they are specialised |
| 18:37.25 | JeffM2501 | but exist |
| 18:37.33 | JeffM2501 | beamspliters can be fun :) |
| 18:37.47 | TD-Linux | sometime when I'm bored, I should make a laser projector : |
| 18:38.09 | TD-Linux | I would need a rotating prism-shaped mirror |
| 18:38.16 | TD-Linux | with 6 faces or so |
| 18:38.23 | TD-Linux | to make it go back and forth |
| 18:38.32 | TD-Linux | and a second longer one to make it go up and down... |
| 18:38.46 | TD-Linux | would be really hard to get them to go in sync though, for a raster display |
| 18:38.57 | TD-Linux | a vector display would be harder because they would have to change direction a lot |
| 18:55.26 | TheBarron | you know.. you get discouraged at playing when you suck so bad.. then you go to the forums and see that folks have been playing since 2001 and all... in a way, it makes it less discouraging that you're getting your butt kicked, but on the other hand, it makes it more discouraging because you realize it will be years before you don't suck ;) |
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| 19:22.17 | A-Delusion | vector displays are still used in military, medical, and for oscilliscopes. |
| 19:24.31 | DTRemenak | TheBarron: some of us have been playing for years and we STILL suck... ;) |
| 19:25.23 | dngor | A vector display could be a hardware hack on an old CRT. |
| 19:26.22 | dngor | I guess you'd need to find a green screen. Color displays would be annoying as heck. |
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| 19:35.59 | Mr_Molez | 1 thing i hate about bzflag is the huge/bright orange angle line on the radar and the fact u cant make the radar fullscreen |
| 19:38.22 | TheBarron | yeah, making it fullscreen would be nice (though the small HUD up top is still nice, too <shrug>) ... but what are you talking about with the line? The FoV indicators? |
| 19:38.38 | Mr_Molez | yeh |
| 19:38.49 | amcnabb | I've seen someone do a hack to make the radar fullscreen. |
| 19:38.53 | TheBarron | you don't like having them, or you don't like their color? |
| 19:39.02 | amcnabb | However, I'm not sure how hard it was to do or how they did it. |
| 19:40.39 | TheBarron | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8308&highlight= |
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| 19:52.03 | TheRedBaron | FOV is a wonderful reference point for jumping |
| 19:58.35 | TheBarron | I don't think I'd want to do without the FoV. But I'm not sure what you mean. But that's because I suck. |
| 19:58.58 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, it'd be easy to take out those orange lines |
| 19:59.02 | TheRedBaron | its an excellent reference point for doing spin jumps |
| 19:59.15 | TheBarron | I imagine it's a one-line edit to radarrenderer.cxx :) |
| 19:59.24 | Mr_Molez | TheRedBaron: yeh thats why i know it will never be taken out :) |
| 19:59.31 | TheRedBaron | depending on the the height of the building your desired target is on |
| 19:59.32 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: but wont that be considered cheating ? |
| 19:59.41 | JeffM2501 | only to cbg :) |
| 19:59.45 | TheBarron | nope.. information display modification :) |
| 19:59.52 | TheBarron | cbg thinks playing is cheating |
| 19:59.58 | JeffM2501 | actualy it would be removing stuff, puting you at a disadvantge |
| 20:00.05 | JeffM2501 | so then it would make everyone else a cheater |
| 20:00.11 | dngor | fov + binoculars = sniper mode |
| 20:00.13 | Mr_Molez | haha |
| 20:00.27 | JeffM2501 | it would be simple to hook those lines into a config setting. |
| 20:00.36 | Mr_Molez | its an annoyance to me, i never use it and its only use for me is to stop me seeing bullets so i get killed :) |
| 20:00.36 | CBG | I like how it's ok for people to be jerks to me here, but I'd be in trouble if I was a jerk towards anyone else. |
| 20:00.54 | JeffM2501 | oh we were jsut joking cbg, no harm inteneded |
| 20:01.32 | JeffM2501 | I forgot the :), so my bad :( |
| 20:02.35 | Mr_Molez | CBG: the way you tell people they're lagging, or how they have lucky spawns could be considered being a jerk by everyone :P |
| 20:02.52 | JeffM2501 | molez be nice |
| 20:03.06 | Mr_Molez | k |
| 20:03.22 | Mr_Molez | so umm |
| 20:03.30 | Mr_Molez | would having a fullscreen radar be considered a cheat ? |
| 20:03.39 | JeffM2501 | naw |
| 20:03.43 | Mr_Molez | sweet :D |
| 20:04.09 | JeffM2501 | it even kinda has a pro and a con |
| 20:04.17 | JeffM2501 | as it hides parts of the view |
| 20:04.47 | Mr_Molez | so i can code these up now and use them to play on public servers ? |
| 20:05.12 | JeffM2501 | IIRC there is a patch for full screen radar |
| 20:05.22 | Mr_Molez | yeh i think ive seen that aswell |
| 20:05.40 | JeffM2501 | the game itself allows large radar |
| 20:05.40 | Mr_Molez | don't know where to find it though, also i think it was for 1.7 or something |
| 20:05.57 | JeffM2501 | no no, trepan did it recently, thought he put it in 2.1 or had it as a patch or something |
| 20:06.03 | Mr_Molez | wow |
| 20:06.10 | TheRedBaron | ~trepan++ |
| 20:06.21 | JeffM2501 | did you even READ that post that was linked about it? |
| 20:06.34 | Mr_Molez | TheRedBaron: hehe if i knew this before :P |
| 20:07.10 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: don't know if i saw it or someone told me about it , was ages ago |
| 20:07.18 | CBG | Mr_Molez: I don't do that here. |
| 20:07.20 | JeffM2501 | umm no, it was like 10 min ago |
| 20:07.30 | JeffM2501 | TheBarron http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8308&highlight= |
| 20:07.35 | JeffM2501 | scroll up |
| 20:07.45 | Mr_Molez | oh |
| 20:07.50 | TheRedBaron | yea, he put that in a while back |
| 20:08.09 | Mr_Molez | lol didn't notice any url, sry |
| 20:08.43 | JeffM2501 | the post says it's a patch for 2.0 cvs |
| 20:09.14 | Mr_Molez | wow that is nice, apart from the huge orange V :P |
| 20:09.22 | JeffM2501 | like I say, it's simple to take out |
| 20:09.30 | JeffM2501 | and you'd be patching anyway |
| 20:09.54 | Mr_Molez | ok thanks alot |
| 20:09.55 | JeffM2501 | heck in 2.1 you can even do a top view camera of the 3d world |
| 20:10.03 | JeffM2501 | if you wanted to |
| 20:10.08 | Mr_Molez | heh |
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| 20:30.34 | JeffM2501 | hmm I never saw if siggraph had a recomendation for a raytrace lib |
| 20:30.44 | JeffM2501 | tho I bet I know what he'll say |
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| 20:36.48 | supertanker | is there a hard limit to the diminsions of a bzflag map? |
| 20:37.08 | JeffM2501 | the depth buffer won't do so well if the map gets TOO big |
| 20:37.14 | JeffM2501 | how big are you looking at? |
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| 20:38.55 | supertanker | um.....I have the size key set to 1600 |
| 20:39.32 | supertanker | right now its pretty empty so my computer handles it okay |
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| 20:47.01 | JeffM2501 | distance will not affect performance |
| 20:47.12 | supertanker | Okay. good. |
| 20:47.12 | Chestal | xcalc ist sowieso ein Fehler :-) |
| 20:47.14 | Chestal | oopsa |
| 20:47.19 | supertanker | ? |
| 20:48.21 | Chestal | wrong channel. Was saying that using xcalc is a bad idea |
| 20:48.38 | supertanker | ah |
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| 21:07.39 | siggraph | JeffM2501: heh, are you kidding? |
| 21:07.46 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 21:08.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah so it seems |
| 21:08.26 | JeffM2501 | been searching google and stuff for a bout a day and come up with squat |
| 21:08.38 | siggraph | what do you need raytracing for? |
| 21:08.47 | JeffM2501 | well other then comerical ones, and that one I' know you'll say I should use :) |
| 21:08.47 | siggraph | and what do you mean by raytracing :) |
| 21:08.59 | JeffM2501 | real raytracking |
| 21:09.03 | JeffM2501 | like 3dmax stuff |
| 21:09.06 | JeffM2501 | not real time |
| 21:09.18 | JeffM2501 | purdy purdy pictures kinda deal |
| 21:10.11 | JeffM2501 | gahh raytracing, not tracking :) |
| 21:13.47 | dngor | I get some mileage from blender... 'though to be honest I don't actually render anything I've made with it. |
| 21:14.07 | dngor | Unless you count building something with lumber "rendering". |
| 21:14.16 | JeffM2501 | don't want an app |
| 21:14.19 | JeffM2501 | I have apps |
| 21:14.22 | JeffM2501 | I want a lib |
| 21:17.35 | ruskie | povray |
| 21:17.37 | ruskie | :) |
| 21:17.45 | ruskie | tough it's not really a lib |
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| 21:34.24 | dngor | Well... what's the important distinction between passing render parameters via the stack and doing it through a text file or pipe? |
| 21:38.22 | JeffM2501 | I'd prefer to have the option of imbeding it in my own applications |
| 21:39.38 | dngor | Does commenting out main() and adding your own count? |
| 21:39.57 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:40.05 | JeffM2501 | that may work for a command line one |
| 21:40.12 | JeffM2501 | I'm not adverse to moding an app |
| 21:40.22 | JeffM2501 | just wondering what is out there |
| 21:40.24 | trepan | JeffM2501: why not call out? it's easier |
| 21:40.26 | dngor | povray was suggested. There's also yafray. |
| 21:40.39 | JeffM2501 | and mr siggraph does have a bit of experience |
| 21:40.54 | JeffM2501 | trepan, may be, I just wanted his opinion on what is out there |
| 21:41.56 | trepan | blender and wings both can run separate procs to render |
| 21:42.34 | purple_cow | apparently jim blinn stopped by the blender/open-source booth for some demos :) |
| 21:43.02 | JeffM2501 | and yeah, he's at that show that may have some cool new stuff ;) |
| 21:43.10 | JeffM2501 | like that cow guy |
| 21:43.37 | purple_cow | show's over :( |
| 21:43.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:43.49 | JeffM2501 | time to become a slave to "the man"? |
| 21:43.54 | siggraph | JeffM2501: probably one of the better raytracer-for-pretty-pictures out there is yafray, though there are others |
| 21:43.56 | purple_cow | monday |
| 21:44.04 | JeffM2501 | I'm looking at there site now |
| 21:44.14 | siggraph | JeffM2501: pretty comprehensive list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing at the bottom |
| 21:44.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah I saw that list |
| 21:44.39 | JeffM2501 | and the inclusion of a certan military inustrial complex cad system |
| 21:45.08 | siggraph | PBRT is also a nice new tracer, but don't know how well it's modularized into a library |
| 21:45.23 | JeffM2501 | libraryness isn't that big of a deal |
| 21:45.29 | JeffM2501 | useable by other apps is |
| 21:45.36 | siggraph | yeah, brl-cad's is acutally the first distributed ray-tracer, one of the first few ray-tracers ever written |
| 21:45.37 | JeffM2501 | wether it's a call or inclusion |
| 21:47.02 | siggraph | brl-cad does pull it out into a library (librt), but that isn't going to be geared towards making pictures -- it focuses exactly on just shooting rays for you, so you have to set up your view perspective and decide how you want to do the shading |
| 21:47.30 | JeffM2501 | I'm geting yafray now, I'll talke a look at it |
| 21:47.37 | siggraph | yafray actually replaced blender's tracer and "should" be pretty embeddable |
| 21:48.35 | JeffM2501 | I'm toying with the idea of doing raytracings in a tool I'm making for poser |
| 21:48.56 | dngor | Hmm... bzflag game recorder... plus a render farm... |
| 21:49.13 | siggraph | if you're just shooting at triangles, brl-cad has a separate (tiny) module that implements a very high-performance tracer (many millions of rays/sec) |
| 21:49.37 | siggraph | uses pretty latest graphics research -- similar to OpenRT |
| 21:55.33 | JeffM2501 | yeah saw openRT |
| 21:55.48 | JeffM2501 | they kept saying they'd rlease stuff after sigraph 05 |
| 21:56.05 | JeffM2501 | figured since it was sigraph 06 they may just have been a litte off ;) |
| 21:58.36 | siggraph | I don't expect them to release much of anything, those guys are selling their stuff for a nice penny |
| 21:58.45 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's what it seemed |
| 21:58.49 | siggraph | utah and germany researchers we've worked with |
| 21:59.25 | siggraph | they're currently roughly the #2 fastest ray-tracer |
| 22:00.04 | siggraph | they were #1 for a couple years, then this guy busted out a brand new technique that was even better |
| 22:00.11 | siggraph | just last year |
| 22:00.47 | purple_cow | i wish i could have seen everyone's faces at that paper session |
| 22:01.57 | JeffM2501 | you were there for that one wern't you? |
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| 22:02.47 | purple_cow | yeah, but attending something else |
| 22:02.54 | purple_cow | siggraph is painfully parallelized |
| 22:03.40 | siggraph | there's almost always 3 *very* cool things going on.. and you get to pick one |
| 22:04.22 | purple_cow | well, this year it seemed like two-thirds of the time there were 5 things going on, and the other third there was very little |
| 22:06.10 | purple_cow | siggraph: wanna head to dinner soonish? my sister's heading over now |
| 22:07.42 | JeffM2501 | no sigraph dinner this year :( |
| 22:07.55 | JeffM2501 | tilt one back in honor of the good old days! |
| 22:08.08 | purple_cow | yessir |
| 22:08.16 | purple_cow | it's in southern california the next two years ;) |
| 22:08.45 | JeffM2501 | where at? |
| 22:08.48 | JeffM2501 | LA again? |
| 22:08.52 | purple_cow | san diego, then LA |
| 22:08.59 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 22:09.05 | purple_cow | stupid LA |
| 22:09.07 | JeffM2501 | well LA is sad now that it has no E3 |
| 22:09.26 | purple_cow | yeah, that was a surprising announcement |
| 22:09.38 | JeffM2501 | not realy |
| 22:09.50 | JeffM2501 | the last one didn't go so well for eibitors |
| 22:09.55 | JeffM2501 | lot of cash, no real payout |
| 22:09.56 | purple_cow | well, to me, seeing as i have very little knowledge of E3 ;) |
| 22:10.17 | JeffM2501 | basicly IIRC sony and EA said they werne't combing back |
| 22:10.23 | JeffM2501 | the MS expressed displeasure |
| 22:10.28 | JeffM2501 | so the ESA revamped it |
| 22:10.35 | JeffM2501 | now all the little guys are screwed |
| 22:11.06 | purple_cow | surprise, surprise |
| 22:11.18 | JeffM2501 | wonder how many will hit up PAX |
| 22:12.09 | purple_cow | ok, i'm heading back to the hotel. siggraph, if you're interested in dinner, meet me there soonish |
| 22:14.28 | siggraph | alright |
| 22:14.46 | siggraph | there was talk of quincy |
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| 22:30.14 | Mr_Molez | ~20/250 |
| 22:30.16 | ibot | 0.08 |
| 22:30.28 | Mr_Molez | ~250/20 |
| 22:30.29 | ibot | 12.5 |
| 22:30.29 | Birdie | use your head:) |
| 22:30.35 | Mr_Molez | :P |
| 22:31.15 | Birdie | whats E3? |
| 22:32.02 | Mr_Molez | E3 ? |
| 22:32.28 | Birdie | scroll up |
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| 22:32.30 | JeffM2501 | e3 was the Electronic Entertainment Expo |
| 22:33.04 | Birdie | oh |
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| 22:56.04 | JeffM2501 | it was a big gaming convention here |
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| 23:43.01 | NicoKid | why I can't kill reeves ??? |