| 00:01.16 | menotume | hmm, someone else had "list.bzflag.bz/db" in their config file for bzflag client |
| 00:01.40 | menotume | who was that guy that does the DNS stuff ? :) |
| 00:03.26 | menotume | actually, brlcad could probably fix it :) |
| 00:19.49 | JeffM2501 | he could |
| 00:20.03 | JeffM2501 | I think that all 1.10.8 clients have it |
| 00:20.26 | brad2901 | mine doesn't/didn't |
| 00:20.29 | JeffM2501 | so anyone who had that and upgraded to 2.0 had it coied over |
| 00:21.00 | JeffM2501 | you on pure .8? or 1.10 cvs branch? |
| 00:21.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [-b %*!*Gnurdux*@*] by JeffM2501 |
| 00:21.23 | brad2901 | 1.10.8... downloaded from sf.net I think |
| 00:21.37 | JeffM2501 | maybe it was only .6 then |
| 00:21.39 | JeffM2501 | or something |
| 00:21.41 | brad2901 | twas a long time ago |
| 00:21.43 | brad2901 | set list http://db.bzflag.org/db/ |
| 00:23.57 | TimRiker | sup? |
| 00:25.09 | I_Died_Once | when runing an ssh server, is it possible to confine users to their home dierectory? |
| 00:26.21 | TimRiker | possible, yes. normal? no. you will need dev/ and tmp/ and other stuff in the home directory then setup ssh to chroot there. |
| 00:30.23 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (n=SportChi@adsl-69-224-26-237.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:30.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 00:34.08 | *** join/#bzflag HermanDE (n=HermanDE@67-42-11-53.ptld.qwest.net) |
| 00:34.13 | HermanDE | Hey folks.... |
| 00:34.28 | JeffM2501 | hello |
| 00:34.34 | HermanDE | Quick question...... I'm new to this game, and can't seem to make any kills on the servers.... |
| 00:34.42 | HermanDE | Is there a registration process? |
| 00:34.51 | JeffM2501 | do your shots go right thru people? |
| 00:34.59 | HermanDE | Yep..... |
| 00:35.03 | JeffM2501 | are you on linux? |
| 00:35.08 | HermanDE | Yep.... |
| 00:35.12 | JeffM2501 | AMD64? |
| 00:35.16 | HermanDE | Nope.... |
| 00:35.22 | JeffM2501 | what CPU? |
| 00:35.31 | HermanDE | P IV.... |
| 00:35.37 | JeffM2501 | 64bit OS? |
| 00:35.41 | JeffM2501 | or normal 32? |
| 00:36.04 | HermanDE | And my mother wears underware..... What does the color of the cpu have to making kills on a server.... |
| 00:36.20 | JeffM2501 | there is a bug with some of the binary packages on the 64 bit OSs |
| 00:36.26 | HermanDE | 32... As standard as it could be.... |
| 00:36.30 | JeffM2501 | it packs the data wrong and dosn't send out the kill message |
| 00:36.32 | JeffM2501 | hmm |
| 00:36.42 | JeffM2501 | well your problem is not registratioin ( but there is a reg system ) |
| 00:36.50 | HermanDE | Again... Is there a registration process? |
| 00:36.59 | HermanDE | I'm running stable ubuntu... |
| 00:37.05 | JeffM2501 | the problem you descibe has most often been fixed by building from source instead of using the packages |
| 00:37.10 | JeffM2501 | ahh a deb package |
| 00:37.13 | JeffM2501 | yeah I'd build your own |
| 00:37.16 | JeffM2501 | there is a reg system |
| 00:37.21 | JeffM2501 | you register on our forums |
| 00:37.25 | JeffM2501 | but that won't prevent a kill |
| 00:37.36 | JeffM2501 | if the server needed registration it woudl kick you before you even spawn |
| 00:37.47 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@ppp-69-239-140-226.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net) |
| 00:37.49 | HermanDE | Hmm... I seem to be bait on the servers.... It's irritating... |
| 00:37.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah it sounds like the pack problem with the binarys |
| 00:37.59 | L4m3r | you get used to it |
| 00:38.04 | L4m3r | and then you get better :) |
| 00:38.17 | JeffM2501 | the debian based packages seem to have the problem ost |
| 00:38.25 | JeffM2501 | usualy it happens on AMD64 systems |
| 00:38.30 | JeffM2501 | but I've heard of it on p4s |
| 00:38.39 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, thanks for unquiet |
| 00:38.41 | HermanDE | I'm on a HT P IV..... |
| 00:38.46 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, just be good |
| 00:38.59 | HermanDE | JeffM2501, Thanks for the info..... I was thinking I was the bait in a large cheat.... |
| 00:39.03 | JeffM2501 | HermanDE, well the things to check first are to make sure your network dosnt' block UDP |
| 00:39.24 | JeffM2501 | and then I'd build from source, it's prety easy |
| 00:39.29 | HermanDE | JeffM2501, UDP clean... Running several UDP services without probs.... |
| 00:39.34 | JeffM2501 | what version you using 2.0.4 ? |
| 00:40.01 | HermanDE | 2.0.2.20050806-STABLE-linux-gnu-SDL |
| 00:40.08 | JeffM2501 | oh wow |
| 00:40.10 | JeffM2501 | real old |
| 00:40.13 | JeffM2501 | that's over a year old |
| 00:40.25 | JeffM2501 | we have a 2.0.6 tarball on the sourceforge server |
| 00:40.28 | JeffM2501 | get that and build it |
| 00:40.33 | HermanDE | JeffM2501, Uh.... August 2005.... |
| 00:40.34 | JeffM2501 | and it should help a lot |
| 00:40.49 | JeffM2501 | HermanDE, that's whent he deb package was made, not the version :) |
| 00:41.05 | HermanDE | JeffM2501, Ok... Time to hit the compiler.. Again, thanks.... |
| 00:41.12 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 00:41.23 | JeffM2501 | you will need to get a couple dev packages, SDL, libCURL |
| 00:41.30 | JeffM2501 | and maybe your openGL dev package |
| 00:41.59 | *** join/#bzflag cods (n=cods@tuxee.net) |
| 00:42.21 | trepan | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:42.25 | *** join/#bzflag JBGood25 (i=Johnq@JBAUMAN.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 00:42.27 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 00:42.33 | JeffM2501 | so nearly a year ago |
| 00:42.44 | JeffM2501 | or over :) |
| 00:42.48 | JeffM2501 | yay I'm not crazy |
| 00:42.55 | Theme97 | are you sure about that? |
| 00:42.58 | HermanDE | And the delayed Ubuntu has 2.0.4.. |
| 00:43.18 | JeffM2501 | the ubuntu packages come from the debian ones, and they take "a while" to get in IIRC |
| 00:43.27 | JeffM2501 | Theme97, the voice in my head say so. |
| 00:43.49 | JeffM2501 | 2.0.6 is from april of this year |
| 00:44.04 | Aribeth | voices, voices...too many voices... |
| 00:44.26 | JeffM2501 | one of them says I should go home and finish the last of the cider |
| 00:44.36 | Theme97 | ... but what if you ARE crazy and the voice in your head is in denial!? |
| 00:44.40 | Aribeth | hehe |
| 00:45.18 | JeffM2501 | may be, but ya gotta pick one and stick to it |
| 00:45.21 | JeffM2501 | consistency is key |
| 00:45.50 | JeffM2501 | then when I'm all boozed up I can remove some more flags |
| 01:04.51 | Theme97 | Uh, how come the ID for the shooter isn't provided in bz_ShotFiredEventData? :( |
| 01:05.31 | L4m3r | that and the speed vector... |
| 01:05.47 | Theme97 | Aww. |
| 01:05.52 | L4m3r | _shotSpeed isn't quite enough because the shot may be moving ;) |
| 01:06.04 | L4m3r | er, the tank may be moving. |
| 01:06.16 | Theme97 | I was gonna use that for my plugin that reports ultra-useless stats! |
| 01:06.54 | L4m3r | yeah, you can tell where the shot's fired from but that's all you can change |
| 01:07.02 | JeffM2501 | because that event wasn't throught out very well |
| 01:07.13 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, you were the one who added it |
| 01:07.17 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 01:07.17 | L4m3r | can you get tanks autokicked with it? |
| 01:07.27 | Gnurdux | no, you can only change the shottype |
| 01:07.28 | JeffM2501 | you realy shoudln't change the vectors |
| 01:07.34 | JeffM2501 | or the shot type |
| 01:07.42 | JeffM2501 | the shoting client won't know about the change |
| 01:07.42 | L4m3r | I figured as much ;) |
| 01:07.47 | Gnurdux | the shottype is the only part that the server actually updates' |
| 01:07.49 | JeffM2501 | it's a bad event |
| 01:07.55 | Theme97 | Nooo! |
| 01:07.56 | L4m3r | well, it's still useful for certain things |
| 01:08.03 | *** join/#bzflag sciboy (n=sciboy@unaffiliated/sciboy) |
| 01:08.04 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, but it only sends it to the OTHER people |
| 01:08.06 | JeffM2501 | not back to you |
| 01:08.14 | JeffM2501 | it's not good to use |
| 01:08.21 | sciboy | Hey guys, i'm a newbie and i want to start a server from in-game using port 9001. |
| 01:08.22 | Theme97 | There goes that Super Bullet modification to the plugin, Gn. |
| 01:08.25 | JeffM2501 | it's a fast way to get gamestates out ao sync |
| 01:08.25 | Theme97 | *Gnu |
| 01:08.34 | L4m3r | it's easier than thumper's bzfs mod for BZflag olympics ;) |
| 01:08.36 | sciboy | Is there a way to do this, or am i forced to have to learn bzfs? =| |
| 01:08.45 | JeffM2501 | Theme97, a better way is to have the server jsut tell the cleint how all it's shots work |
| 01:08.48 | JeffM2501 | from the getgo |
| 01:08.55 | Theme97 | Ah. |
| 01:09.00 | Gnurdux | Theme97, we can still do it, it just wont be as good |
| 01:09.04 | Theme97 | Yep. |
| 01:09.06 | JeffM2501 | sciboy, the server takes a port option, set it to whatever you want |
| 01:09.11 | Theme97 | Ricochet could kill the guy who shoots it :P |
| 01:09.15 | Gnurdux | and thumpers mod has the same problem L4m3r |
| 01:09.22 | Theme97 | Yeah. |
| 01:09.24 | L4m3r | I know |
| 01:09.28 | sciboy | JeffM2501, But the thing is i want to execute it from within BZFlag using the Start Server option. |
| 01:09.28 | Theme97 | Yeah. |
| 01:09.31 | L4m3r | but it still gets the job done, right? |
| 01:09.33 | JeffM2501 | sciboy, you can't |
| 01:09.42 | JeffM2501 | you have to run the server manualy for advanced options |
| 01:09.55 | JeffM2501 | Theme97, I would not recomend using that event to change things |
| 01:10.05 | JeffM2501 | I am working on a new way |
| 01:10.05 | JeffM2501 | a better way |
| 01:10.10 | JeffM2501 | server side shot and weapon descriptors |
| 01:10.24 | JeffM2501 | then you can mod any shot however youw ant |
| 01:10.42 | Theme97 | Hah, Gnu! |
| 01:10.48 | Gnurdux | weapon descriptors? |
| 01:10.53 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 01:10.56 | Gnurdux | Theme97, thats all for 2.1/2.2 |
| 01:11.13 | sciboy | JeffM2501, I'm kinda in a hurry though, got friends waiting for the server. |
| 01:11.14 | Gnurdux | anyway so it will have weapons? |
| 01:11.29 | sciboy | JeffM2501, Would prefer it if i didn't have to config the server right now. |
| 01:11.32 | JeffM2501 | sciboy, sorry man, I can't magicaly make the game do something it's not desinged to do. |
| 01:11.38 | JeffM2501 | sciboy, YOU HAVE TO |
| 01:11.50 | sciboy | Oh well, need to go call it off for now then. |
| 01:11.51 | JeffM2501 | there is no magic way to make it change ports other then doing a manual server |
| 01:12.01 | sciboy | Not even with bzrelay? |
| 01:12.03 | JeffM2501 | the in game server start is for very simple lan games |
| 01:12.10 | JeffM2501 | no, bzrelay dosnt' even work |
| 01:12.27 | JeffM2501 | we don't ship it anymore |
| 01:13.00 | JeffM2501 | you could do it with a router port map if you are behind a router |
| 01:13.10 | JeffM2501 | send your public port to the default port on your LAN |
| 01:13.21 | JeffM2501 | but that would be outside of our software |
| 01:14.11 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, the server tells the client what each weapon does, how it shoots, and what it shoots |
| 01:14.26 | JeffM2501 | so when you pick up a flag, it just says "here is your gun" |
| 01:14.27 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, weapons are just like flags, right? |
| 01:14.34 | Gnurdux | ok good |
| 01:14.36 | JeffM2501 | flags can give weapons |
| 01:14.43 | JeffM2501 | but not all flags give new weapons |
| 01:14.49 | JeffM2501 | some flags just reuse the standard weapon |
| 01:14.50 | Gnurdux | i hope that the health stuff doesnt get into 2.1 |
| 01:14.59 | JeffM2501 | who said it was going to? |
| 01:15.03 | Gnurdux | noone |
| 01:15.11 | JeffM2501 | then why would you think it would? |
| 01:15.11 | sciboy | What's the default port for bzflag? |
| 01:15.16 | JeffM2501 | 5154 |
| 01:15.18 | Gnurdux | sciboy, lol: 5154 |
| 01:15.21 | L4m3r | so in 2.1, it will be like the client says "fire" and the server picks the shot type and all the other details? |
| 01:15.31 | L4m3r | so they'd be tweakable? |
| 01:15.32 | Gnurdux | thats awesome |
| 01:15.45 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, if this goes back to 2.1, the shot descriptor gets atached to each shot |
| 01:15.47 | Gnurdux | then server sends back "Shot at position whatever" |
| 01:15.53 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, no |
| 01:16.04 | Gnurdux | it sends back a class, packed |
| 01:16.10 | JeffM2501 | you don't get to tweak eash shot on a per shot basis |
| 01:16.16 | Gnurdux | awww |
| 01:16.17 | JeffM2501 | you tweak each weapon on a per weapon basis |
| 01:16.33 | JeffM2501 | lag prevents the server from changing the client's shot |
| 01:16.37 | Gnurdux | so no making it so you cant shoot in certain areas? |
| 01:16.52 | JeffM2501 | you can't have the client start a laser then have the server say "no that was a SW" |
| 01:17.02 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, the server can end shots |
| 01:17.02 | sciboy | That should fix it. =| |
| 01:17.09 | JeffM2501 | sciboy, that would be a workaround |
| 01:17.09 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, it can? |
| 01:17.13 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, sure why not? |
| 01:17.19 | JeffM2501 | MsgEndSHot |
| 01:17.23 | L4m3r | time to get modding gnu :P |
| 01:17.30 | Gnurdux | does that work on the client that shot it? |
| 01:17.40 | JeffM2501 | if you tell it that the shot ended, I'd think so |
| 01:18.29 | Gnurdux | really.... |
| 01:18.29 | JeffM2501 | tho dono if current code accepts endshots from it's own shots |
| 01:18.30 | Gnurdux | clients usually ignore stuff about themselves |
| 01:18.30 | JeffM2501 | I plan on making it do that |
| 01:18.30 | L4m3r | Jeff: it should, in theory |
| 01:18.30 | JeffM2501 | for some things yes, for others no |
| 01:18.30 | L4m3r | like, hitting a tank |
| 01:18.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah I think they will |
| 01:18.30 | Gnurdux | cool |
| 01:18.35 | JeffM2501 | the server would have to track shots tho |
| 01:18.38 | JeffM2501 | and right now it dosn't do that |
| 01:18.46 | JeffM2501 | it dosnt' compute rico |
| 01:18.51 | JeffM2501 | or anything like that |
| 01:18.55 | JeffM2501 | IIRC |
| 01:19.01 | L4m3r | well eventually it should do hit calculation and the works, right? |
| 01:19.28 | L4m3r | to prevent most methods of god mode cheating? |
| 01:19.33 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 01:19.42 | JeffM2501 | but you'd want both the client and server to compute it |
| 01:19.49 | JeffM2501 | and have the server just arbitrate disputes |
| 01:19.51 | L4m3r | hm... good idea |
| 01:19.52 | JeffM2501 | to mask the lag |
| 01:19.55 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 01:20.16 | JeffM2501 | under a "clean" client it should compute just what the server did and all would be well |
| 01:20.48 | L4m3r | well, what about lag? |
| 01:21.28 | JeffM2501 | that's why the client does it too |
| 01:21.35 | JeffM2501 | if the clinet knows it's dead it starts blowing up |
| 01:21.40 | JeffM2501 | and the server says "you died" |
| 01:21.49 | JeffM2501 | then the client jsut says "yeah I know, I"m blowing up " |
| 01:21.52 | L4m3r | ah, I see |
| 01:21.52 | JeffM2501 | and all is well |
| 01:22.06 | L4m3r | sorry- was thinking of the shooter and not the victim there for a sec |
| 01:22.13 | JeffM2501 | and everyone else sees the server send out a "he died" message |
| 01:22.25 | JeffM2501 | acutaly it 1/2's the lag for the other people |
| 01:22.32 | JeffM2501 | cus now the server just send them an "he died" |
| 01:22.43 | JeffM2501 | instead of him sending the server a "I died" and the server relaying |
| 01:22.50 | JeffM2501 | now it takes out the send part |
| 01:23.29 | L4m3r | Cool. Well, I'm off to dinner. bbl. |
| 01:23.32 | JeffM2501 | have fun |
| 01:23.38 | L4m3r | :) |
| 01:23.42 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, also, is it too late now for my patch thingy? |
| 01:24.36 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 01:24.59 | JeffM2501 | don't make me regret leting you talk again |
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| 01:48.11 | JeffM2501 | time for home :) |
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| 01:58.30 | *** part/#bzflag EbErT (n=EbErT@168.16.136.171) |
| 02:12.19 | *** join/#bzflag QuickTim (n=QuickTim@cpe-66-67-12-0.rochester.res.rr.com) |
| 02:12.45 | QuickTim | is CVS down just for the BZFlag source, or for every project across SF.net? |
| 02:14.36 | *** join/#bzflag HatMaster (n=chatzill@222-154-158-99.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 02:15.19 | HatMaster | I didn't get an activation email for my.bzflag.org/bb. Can someone help me? |
| 02:15.37 | HatMaster | my username was Katana |
| 02:15.49 | QuickTim | Jeff still hasn't set up a smtp emailer yet? |
| 02:16.01 | blast007 | QuickTim: it's a PHP bug |
| 02:16.06 | HatMaster | i don't know |
| 02:16.18 | QuickTim | eh |
| 02:16.21 | blast007 | HatMaster: you'll have to be manually activated by an admin |
| 02:16.23 | QuickTim | reinstall phpBB |
| 02:16.27 | blast007 | QuickTim: ? |
| 02:16.35 | QuickTim | if its a php bug then there is something wrong |
| 02:16.38 | blast007 | QuickTim: I said a PHP bug, nut phpBB bug |
| 02:16.38 | HatMaster | ok, ill reinstall the server scripts |
| 02:16.39 | QuickTim | because smtp always worked for me |
| 02:16.49 | QuickTim | erm hat... not talking to you |
| 02:16.50 | HatMaster | can anyone here activate me please? |
| 02:16.53 | blast007 | QuickTim: I assume you don't run FreeBSD |
| 02:16.59 | QuickTim | nope |
| 02:17.04 | QuickTim | i run Mac OS X |
| 02:17.12 | blast007 | exactly :) |
| 02:17.23 | blast007 | so you don't know there isn't a bug with PHP on FreeBSD |
| 02:17.25 | QuickTim | i guess it works better than free bsd, because smtp works for me |
| 02:18.16 | HatMaster | so i should reinstall freebsd on the server? |
| 02:18.27 | HatMaster | do you want me to delete windows first? |
| 02:18.33 | QuickTim | um. we arent talking to you |
| 02:18.38 | HatMaster | oh, sorry |
| 02:18.43 | QuickTim | sorry for confusing you |
| 02:18.55 | HatMaster | does that mean i can play bzflags now? |
| 02:18.59 | HatMaster | on silvercat? |
| 02:19.06 | QuickTim | you know |
| 02:19.11 | QuickTim | i have never tried signing up |
| 02:19.16 | QuickTim | and playing without activating |
| 02:19.18 | blast007 | not until you are activated |
| 02:19.19 | QuickTim | it may or may not work |
| 02:19.20 | blast007 | it checks |
| 02:19.26 | QuickTim | it checks to see if you have |
| 02:19.27 | QuickTim | shees |
| 02:19.27 | QuickTim | h |
| 02:20.07 | HatMaster | will reinstalling bzflags help? |
| 02:20.11 | QuickTim | no |
| 02:21.04 | HatMaster | is anyone here admin? |
| 02:21.05 | L4m3r | DTRemenak: ping |
| 02:21.54 | HatMaster | will uninstalling my isp help? |
| 02:22.02 | blast007 | HatMaster: no, just chill |
| 02:22.03 | L4m3r | HatMaster: no. |
| 02:22.21 | blast007 | the only way it will work is when a forum admin activates your account |
| 02:22.37 | HatMaster | am I an admin? |
| 02:22.40 | QuickTim | no |
| 02:26.16 | QuickTim | so anybody know my question? |
| 02:27.27 | L4m3r | no, it doesn't work if you haven't activated... I've tried |
| 02:27.39 | QuickTim | CVS? |
| 02:27.50 | Mr_Molez | QuickTim: aint got a clue but u can get 2.0.7 at http://bzflag.bz/~atupone/bzflag-2.0.7.tar.bz2 |
| 02:27.56 | QuickTim | no its not for bz |
| 02:28.21 | QuickTim | binaryspike wants to set up CVS for iBZEdit so that we can all get the latest |
| 02:28.28 | QuickTim | and i was wondering if it was worth it |
| 02:28.32 | QuickTim | because cvs is down |
| 02:28.59 | blast007 | QuickTim: the sync isn't up yet, if that's what you mean |
| 02:29.08 | QuickTim | for entire SF.net? |
| 02:29.11 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:29.11 | QuickTim | or just BZ |
| 02:29.17 | blast007 | all |
| 02:29.29 | QuickTim | thank you! |
| 02:29.42 | blast007 | QuickTim: http://sourceforge.net/docs/A04/ |
| 02:44.40 | QuickTim | thanks everybody |
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| 02:48.19 | SportChick | bzbb is insanely slow :( |
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| 04:24.00 | JeffM2501 | how am I suposed to find out if my ideas are good if DTRemenak isn't here to call them evil anbd poke fun at me? |
| 04:24.20 | JBdiGriz | Your ideas are evil |
| 04:24.25 | JBdiGriz | ~poke JeffM2501 |
| 04:24.26 | ibot | ACTION grabs a syringe |
| 04:24.49 | JeffM2501 | wow if you say they are evil they myst be great ;) |
| 04:25.11 | JBdiGriz | especially myst, that was a different game. |
| 04:25.40 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 04:25.45 | JeffM2501 | I LOVED the first one |
| 04:26.05 | JeffM2501 | then I found out it was basicly a suped up hypercard stack ;) |
| 04:26.31 | JBdiGriz | You didn't know that? I was surprised they did so well with that environment. |
| 04:26.57 | blast007 | oh wow...hypercard...forgot all about that program |
| 04:26.59 | JeffM2501 | I didn't when I first played it |
| 04:27.06 | JeffM2501 | yeah they did great for what they had |
| 04:27.11 | JeffM2501 | probably one of the best uses of it |
| 04:27.57 | L4m3r | Jeff, a distraught player by the name of HatMaster was begging for help with his BZBB account... he can't activate because there's no email |
| 04:28.48 | L4m3r | username "Katana" |
| 04:29.05 | JeffM2501 | he's active |
| 04:29.05 | L4m3r | so... I don't know what the policy is but yeah |
| 04:29.12 | L4m3r | ok |
| 04:29.16 | JeffM2501 | shoudl be fine |
| 04:29.31 | L4m3r | cool, he'll be appreciative :) |
| 04:30.06 | JeffM2501 | I didn't do anything |
| 04:30.12 | JeffM2501 | it was already active |
| 04:30.16 | blast007 | we could change the activation from 'user' to 'admin', so they'd at least not expect to get an activation email |
| 04:30.34 | JeffM2501 | blast007, but then admins don't get the e-mail |
| 04:30.37 | JeffM2501 | so it's the same thing |
| 04:30.59 | blast007 | hmm...suppose so :) |
| 04:31.18 | JeffM2501 | so instead of waiting for an e-mail, they are wating on an admin that won't ever know |
| 04:35.31 | JeffM2501 | so yesterday when I was talking about making SB do a zoom, DTRemenak said it would be stupid cus you'd be zooming on a wall |
| 04:35.36 | JeffM2501 | cus you'd be shoting thru it |
| 04:35.42 | JeffM2501 | so I gots to thinkin |
| 04:36.16 | JeffM2501 | what if when you zoom, it makes a round area around the sight where you can see thru 4-5 buildings, and see whats on the other side, with increasing transperancy |
| 04:36.25 | JeffM2501 | but only in that ring |
| 04:36.29 | JeffM2501 | while zoomed |
| 04:43.20 | JeffM2501 | and then silence |
| 04:45.03 | JeffM2501 | but is it a stunned silence? |
| 04:45.12 | JeffM2501 | and aquard silence? |
| 04:45.24 | JeffM2501 | just one of those crikets things? |
| 04:51.06 | Aribeth | the silence is deafing |
| 04:51.39 | JeffM2501 | 'tis |
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| 10:25.27 | Usiu | Mr_Molez, Hi |
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| 10:49.20 | brad_ | ~ping |
| 10:49.22 | ibot | pong |
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| 11:44.22 | deadman | ny system admins online for the forums - password trouble |
| 11:45.31 | SportChick | deadman what is your error? |
| 11:45.38 | SportChick | bad password, or is it being insanely slow? |
| 11:46.15 | deadman | cant login, updated password, seems to have got scrambled somewhere |
| 11:46.42 | deadman | all started with tring to send a pm to spazzy |
| 11:46.51 | SportChick | deadman: the bzbb forums? |
| 11:46.58 | deadman | yes |
| 11:47.10 | SportChick | deadman: unfortunately most of those admins are still asleep |
| 11:47.16 | SportChick | brad: ping, can you help? |
| 11:47.18 | SportChick | pfft |
| 11:47.26 | SportChick | brlcad: ping, can you help? |
| 11:47.31 | SportChick | brad: sorry - unping |
| 11:47.46 | deadman | yeh, thats the prob with the wrong side of the planet |
| 11:48.14 | SportChick | deadman: where are you? |
| 11:48.39 | deadman | australia |
| 11:48.57 | _brad | no more fake pings now |
| 11:49.08 | deadman | lol |
| 11:49.13 | SportChick | _brad: thanks :) |
| 11:49.16 | _brad | :) |
| 11:49.22 | SportChick | deadman: what part of oz? |
| 11:49.29 | deadman | melb |
| 11:49.35 | SportChick | nice |
| 11:49.38 | deadman | no |
| 11:49.46 | SportChick | mozul and I spent a year traveling - 2 months through oz |
| 11:49.50 | SportChick | we loved the south |
| 11:50.21 | deadman | im here because of posting, no likee |
| 11:51.00 | deadman | prefer canberra, sydney more north stuff |
| 11:51.35 | SportChick | I was in Canberra a month before the fires destroyed much of the area in 2002/2003 |
| 11:51.35 | deadman | no stuffy lifestyle there |
| 11:51.50 | deadman | i was in it |
| 11:52.53 | deadman | ever heard a dozen helicopters or more flying low overhead? thats what it sounded like |
| 11:53.02 | SportChick | this is from the australia portion of our trip: http://www.kirkanddonna.com/rtw/December02.htm |
| 11:54.53 | deadman | i'll have a look see |
| 11:55.02 | deadman | that you in the yellow? |
| 11:55.49 | deadman | t-shirt that is |
| 11:56.01 | SportChick | yes |
| 11:57.28 | SportChick | heh, you'll see that shirt a lot. when you travel for a year, you travel light |
| 11:57.46 | deadman | btw the aus american monuent in canberra is referred to as bugs bunny - no offence, thats what it looks like |
| 11:59.04 | SportChick | hehe |
| 11:59.39 | deadman | ok back to my orig, who do i have to talk too? |
| 11:59.58 | deadman | to? |
| 12:01.28 | deadman | bugga i need a smoke |
| 12:02.06 | deadman | i dont smoke |
| 12:03.22 | SportChick | hehe |
| 12:03.36 | SportChick | the best people would be DTRemenak or Jeffm2501 |
| 12:03.45 | SportChick | however, they are both on the west coast of the usa |
| 12:03.48 | SportChick | and it's only 5AM there |
| 12:04.04 | SportChick | you could try leaving them a memo if you can't stick around for a while |
| 12:04.49 | deadman | mmm, what about trepan? |
| 12:05.15 | SportChick | I don't think trepan has bzbb admin rights |
| 12:05.20 | SportChick | hold on, and I'll see |
| 12:06.43 | SportChick | it's brlcad (who seems to be away - it's 8Am his time), JeffM2501 or DTRemenak |
| 12:08.29 | deadman | k, ill try later my time, i have talked with jeff b4, so i'll do it in my morning thanks sportchick |
| 12:08.52 | SportChick | deadman: np - sorry I couldn't help |
| 12:08.56 | SportChick | but |
| 12:09.14 | SportChick | deadman: if you post the exact problem here, they will probably read it and may have it fixed by the time you log in later |
| 12:09.40 | deadman | and how do i "post" |
| 12:09.59 | SportChick | like you just did - just type it into this window |
| 12:10.02 | SportChick | it's all logged |
| 12:10.39 | deadman | ahh, so the best bet to get attention to this prob is YELL |
| 12:11.20 | SportChick | nawww, yelling is rude. Just state your question and let them know you'll be back later for the answer if you can't wait. They can always send you a memo you'll get when you log in. |
| 12:11.32 | deadman | should i put my email address in that yell? |
| 12:12.03 | deadman | k |
| 12:12.05 | SportChick | only if you want a lot of spam |
| 12:12.21 | SportChick | you could always PM your email address or put it in a memo for the person(s) you want to read it |
| 12:12.44 | deadman | ah but part of the prob was in changing my profile, i was also changing my email |
| 12:12.46 | SportChick | memo and pms go to individuals. |
| 12:12.55 | SportChick | ah ok |
| 12:13.13 | deadman | more difficult you think? |
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| 12:13.27 | SportChick | hehe |
| 12:13.33 | SportChick | if it's too hard, just come back later :D |
| 12:13.42 | deadman | dont smile like that |
| 12:13.50 | SportChick | :( |
| 12:13.57 | deadman | btr |
| 12:14.06 | SportChick | hrmph |
| 12:15.25 | deadman | ok thx for your help, i try to chat with jeff 2mrw |
| 12:15.34 | SportChick | ok |
| 12:15.36 | SportChick | cu :) |
| 12:15.37 | deadman | nity |
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| 12:24.03 | deadman | sportchick u there? |
| 12:24.10 | SportChick | yes |
| 12:24.33 | SportChick | romfis!!! |
| 12:24.36 | SportChick | deadman: I am here :) |
| 12:24.59 | deadman | just looking thru yr photos, the lady from canberra looks familiar |
| 12:25.07 | SportChick | oh? |
| 12:25.08 | SportChick | hehe |
| 12:25.10 | SportChick | that's funny |
| 12:25.12 | romfis | SportChick !!! |
| 12:25.18 | SportChick | we met her in New Zealand, actually |
| 12:25.24 | SportChick | but she lives in Canberra |
| 12:25.25 | deadman | u got a surname? |
| 12:25.35 | SportChick | ohhh you're gonna make me think! |
| 12:25.42 | deadman | noooo |
| 12:25.42 | SportChick | yeah, i can find one - give me a minute |
| 12:26.15 | deadman | did she work for the trade marks people? |
| 12:29.59 | SportChick | Carder |
| 12:30.07 | SportChick | her last name is Carder |
| 12:30.36 | deadman | helen? |
| 12:30.59 | SportChick | Yes |
| 12:31.11 | deadman | she just looks familiar |
| 12:31.28 | deadman | strange |
| 12:31.32 | SportChick | iirc she works in the government |
| 12:31.41 | deadman | that is scary |
| 12:32.20 | SportChick | scary? |
| 12:33.10 | SportChick | deadman: come to ##essy - I'm asking mozul if he remembers anything else about her |
| 12:33.45 | deadman | yeh, i'm not sur but i think ive met her |
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| 14:54.44 | Tupone | hola |
| 14:56.04 | _Manu_ | ciao :) |
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| 15:20.27 | Mr_Molez | is it possible to code the server so that only rico shots kill tanks ? or would that need to be done client side ? |
| 15:20.54 | Tupone | client side |
| 15:21.09 | Mr_Molez | aww |
| 15:21.10 | Mr_Molez | k |
| 15:21.11 | Mr_Molez | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:22.16 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 07playground_branch * 10bzflag/ (9 files in 4 dirs): start client side support for shot descriptor |
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| 18:04.15 | bryjen | JeffM2501: you were saying the other day that the server is now checking every pos update if you've run over a flag and sending you a MsgGrabFlag if so... Is that in playground or 2.1? |
| 18:05.21 | bryjen | i seem to be able to run straight over flags and not always pick them up in playground. i wonder if its got to do with DR and sending updates less often |
| 18:13.07 | CBG | Hmm, can someone tell me if the bzflag tank hitzone is circular or not? |
| 18:14.08 | Mr_Molez | it is |
| 18:14.40 | L4m3r | lol CBG got owned by saturos |
| 18:14.49 | Mr_Molez | heh |
| 18:14.51 | CBG | Hmm, then why can I fit through gaps in bullets if I face the shooter, but can't when at 90º to them? |
| 18:14.56 | CBG | L4m3r: hardly owned. |
| 18:15.02 | L4m3r | because you can see them better? |
| 18:15.06 | CBG | Though he can kick my ass anyday of the week. |
| 18:15.19 | CBG | L4m3r: if I'm using radar it makes no difference. |
| 18:16.53 | ToughShooter | I think the hit detecting mechanism is buggy, every once in a while (one time per week) I see a shot get straight through me |
| 18:17.08 | Mr_Molez | CBG: ohh nice question |
| 18:17.13 | CBG | That's not your lag or packet loss? |
| 18:17.35 | ToughShooter | Well, lagstats looks quite ok (20 +-1ms, 0 loss) |
| 18:17.53 | CBG | Mr_Molez: yeah, ask all the pro's. I'm sure they'll all say that you're width is smaller than length. |
| 18:18.46 | Mr_Molez | CBG: yeh i know.. but according to this tank size detection thingy chestal made tanks are circular |
| 18:19.19 | CBG | I figured that the thing Chestal set up was just a mockup, not necessarily an exact replica of bzflag ... |
| 18:19.23 | L4m3r | I've been told it's a sort of truncated sphere |
| 18:19.34 | CBG | There we go then. ;) |
| 18:19.41 | L4m3r | bit narrower at the top |
| 18:19.46 | L4m3r | but still circular |
| 18:19.49 | L4m3r | :P |
| 18:19.55 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: master of all bzflag knowledge |
| 18:20.02 | CBG | How can it be narrow at top but still a circle? |
| 18:20.11 | L4m3r | smaller radius |
| 18:20.13 | CBG | It's either a circle or not. |
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| 18:20.38 | L4m3r | imagine a sphere, centered at the middle of the tank, on the ground |
| 18:20.42 | ToughShooter | Chestal's approach wasn't designed to detect hits very exact |
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| 18:20.55 | CBG | L4m3r: ok... |
| 18:20.56 | L4m3r | with the top chopped above the tank's turret |
| 18:21.16 | CBG | can we deal with it in 2d? |
| 18:21.18 | L4m3r | circular from above, still, but harder to hit higher up |
| 18:21.29 | CBG | we're only talking about 2D anyway. |
| 18:21.32 | ToughShooter | If you have enough Open GL experience you could color the hit zones in client, to look at it more deeply |
| 18:21.36 | Tupone | bryjen: I did it that way: player when is near a flag send a position update, server will get it and will give the flag |
| 18:21.51 | Tupone | dunno if someone change it |
| 18:23.55 | ToughShooter | Given the fact that kills are detected client side it is possible to add a check for kills of opponents to the client itself |
| 18:25.37 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, huh what where how? |
| 18:25.59 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, 2.1 |
| 18:26.14 | JeffM2501 | if you do't have a flag, is sees if you run over a flag and then gives it to you |
| 18:26.29 | JeffM2501 | basicly the client never sends out a "I picked up a flag" message |
| 18:26.34 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: nevermind i was day dreaming. In some fantacy world where nothing makes sense :P |
| 18:26.43 | JeffM2501 | and if you have ID the server tells you what the closest one is |
| 18:26.53 | ToughShooter | That souds like a better approach than the current proto :) |
| 18:26.59 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, you mean california? |
| 18:27.04 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, it is |
| 18:27.11 | CBG | JeffM2501: we/I were/was wondering if the bzflag tank hitzone is circular or not? |
| 18:27.14 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: hehehehe |
| 18:27.28 | JeffM2501 | CBG, umm I think it's a box |
| 18:27.32 | Chestal | bzlogview should be exact, that is, as long as the third dimension isn't used |
| 18:27.34 | Tupone | when we 'll have a wiki I will write what it miss for me |
| 18:27.34 | JeffM2501 | axis aligned |
| 18:27.34 | CBG | In a 2D sence, from above. |
| 18:27.41 | Chestal | it's circular |
| 18:27.45 | JeffM2501 | CBG, the term you want is Cylinder |
| 18:27.50 | JeffM2501 | ok so it's a cylinder |
| 18:27.56 | CBG | Ok, I see. |
| 18:27.57 | JeffM2501 | makes sense |
| 18:27.58 | JeffM2501 | they are fast |
| 18:28.05 | CBG | Thanks JeffM2501, Chestal. |
| 18:28.07 | JeffM2501 | tho we could probalby do a 2 step |
| 18:28.16 | Mr_Molez | yay i was right :P |
| 18:28.20 | JeffM2501 | cylinder then a BBox |
| 18:28.20 | ToughShooter | I want a picture of hit zone :( |
| 18:28.41 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, go look at a coke can |
| 18:28.53 | ToughShooter | I bet there is a really little hole at the side |
| 18:28.58 | *** join/#bzflag Usiu (n=mateusz@ursus.spray.net.pl) |
| 18:28.58 | ToughShooter | lol |
| 18:29.04 | Usiu | Hi |
| 18:29.24 | Chestal | ToughShooter: you know this: http://www.home.unix-ag.org/thilo/files/fanta.png |
| 18:29.28 | Chestal | should be exact for 2D |
| 18:29.28 | ToughShooter | ~dict can |
| 18:29.32 | JeffM2501 | Chestal, the shape for object colisions is a tank aligned box tho isn't it? |
| 18:29.43 | JeffM2501 | or is that a cylinder too? |
| 18:29.51 | JeffM2501 | cylinders make gameplay easyer |
| 18:29.57 | Tupone | object collision, tank is a parallelepiped |
| 18:29.57 | JeffM2501 | since you can allways turn in place |
| 18:29.58 | Chestal | I don't really know anythign about object collision, but it seems to be accurate |
| 18:30.04 | ToughShooter | Chestal: I was thinking about the whole game, not only 2D |
| 18:30.09 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, that's a facny word for a "box" :) |
| 18:30.25 | JeffM2501 | rectilinear parlleepiped |
| 18:30.28 | JeffM2501 | aka "box" |
| 18:30.42 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: You can hardly buy cans in my country any more :P |
| 18:30.52 | JeffM2501 | ok then stack up a bunch of coins |
| 18:31.03 | JeffM2501 | Chestal, what is the radius? |
| 18:31.15 | JeffM2501 | tank len + some fudge? |
| 18:31.27 | JeffM2501 | or is it smaller then the tank? |
| 18:32.03 | Chestal | JeffM2501: _tankRadius |
| 18:32.47 | CBG | tankLength = 6.0, tankRadius = 4.32 |
| 18:32.58 | JeffM2501 | so it's a a little smaller |
| 18:33.00 | JeffM2501 | makes sens |
| 18:33.03 | JeffM2501 | sense |
| 18:33.15 | JeffM2501 | if it was to the outside you'd get killed by "glancing" blows |
| 18:33.19 | Chestal | I guess with changing the variables server-side you could actually make the hitzone smaller with tanks of the same visual size, not sure, how all the values interact |
| 18:33.22 | JeffM2501 | it's a comon things games do |
| 18:33.49 | Chestal | if you face the shooter, you get killed by shoots which miss you to the side slightly |
| 18:34.13 | JeffM2501 | 0.72 * _tankLength |
| 18:34.17 | Chestal | with a real hit detecton, tanks would be even harder to hit |
| 18:34.17 | JeffM2501 | so it's tied to the len |
| 18:34.27 | JeffM2501 | yeah speicaly with lag |
| 18:34.56 | Chestal | IIRC for narrowed tank, a box is used |
| 18:34.58 | JeffM2501 | you could set the radus to a specific value, and break that link |
| 18:36.19 | JeffM2501 | I remember that in P2501, frank uses a "losenge" and stored it as a mesh and did per face checks on it |
| 18:36.23 | JeffM2501 | was horible |
| 18:36.42 | L4m3r | yeesh |
| 18:37.31 | Chestal | without doing a bounding box/sphere check first? |
| 18:37.44 | JeffM2501 | he did a sphere check first |
| 18:37.53 | JeffM2501 | the performnace wasn't bad |
| 18:37.55 | L4m3r | perhaps some sort of clever algebraic inequality could be used to get a more realistic hit zone |
| 18:38.00 | JeffM2501 | the colisions were |
| 18:38.05 | JeffM2501 | you'd get stuck all over the place |
| 18:38.10 | Chestal | ah |
| 18:38.23 | JeffM2501 | like you cound't turn cus the ass end of the "Losenge" was hitting an object behind you that you can't see |
| 18:38.59 | JeffM2501 | with a cylinder you can allways turn in place and get out of a spot |
| 18:39.30 | L4m3r | the BZFlag collision is a box, though, right? |
| 18:39.39 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 18:39.52 | L4m3r | since you can hang off buildings by the very corner or your tank |
| 18:39.52 | ToughShooter | What do you mean with "hit"? A shot or a building? |
| 18:40.02 | JeffM2501 | hit is shot |
| 18:40.06 | JeffM2501 | colide is obstacle |
| 18:40.11 | ToughShooter | ah |
| 18:40.36 | L4m3r | actually, with 1.x objects it's square and 2.x feels cylendrical |
| 18:40.45 | JeffM2501 | colison manager has functions for box, cylinder, and moving box |
| 18:40.47 | L4m3r | thus allowing you to pull yourself through meshes and such :P |
| 18:41.37 | ToughShooter | You can drive through everything quite easily with some bugs, too |
| 18:42.00 | ToughShooter | Like changing windowing mode |
| 18:42.14 | JeffM2501 | anyting that adds lag screws the sim up |
| 18:42.20 | blast007 | or turning on stipple shadows with a Vanta |
| 18:42.41 | blast007 | or was it stencil...whichever ones are supposed to look better |
| 18:42.46 | L4m3r | or taking a bunch of screenshots or checking lagstats a bunch of times |
| 18:43.02 | blast007 | I lagged right though the outside wall of the world |
| 18:43.22 | L4m3r | people do that constantly on my weird-shaped maps |
| 18:43.35 | L4m3r | which sucks for them, since there's a death pad outside the wall |
| 18:43.39 | blast007 | :) |
| 18:43.59 | ToughShooter | For me changing windowing mode on secretplace always meant a lagkick for me :/ |
| 18:44.19 | L4m3r | heh |
| 18:44.40 | L4m3r | for me it was my school-issued antivirus |
| 18:44.56 | L4m3r | it updated every hour, spiked CPU usage and lagged me to hell |
| 18:45.15 | L4m3r | had to tweak the config files to update once a day instead ;) |
| 18:45.18 | blast007 | "please wait while we update your antivirus" as I lag around the map.. |
| 18:45.41 | L4m3r | more like, sitting at lasermania, and suddenly fall inside a berm and die |
| 18:46.45 | ToughShooter | heh, where would changing windowing modes lead to in a world like camelot ;) |
| 18:49.26 | L4m3r | one time we lagged everyone out of mofo by adding these randomly-generated, invisible mesh teeth to the boxes to throw off the "pool" players |
| 18:49.56 | L4m3r | made rico very unpredictable, good times :) |
| 18:51.36 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502ab049@zeebrothers.net) |
| 18:53.00 | ToughShooter | Ohh, ****, I never played there longer than 1 minute |
| 18:53.31 | *** join/#bzflag JBGood25 (i=Johnq@128.237.231.193) |
| 19:03.37 | *** join/#bzflag uso (n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 19:12.04 | awelux__ | hi. btw. is it considered a bug that the lasers can "drift"? That is completely unnatural. And is that the default? |
| 19:43.39 | blast007 | awelux__: you mean how the laser fires at an angle when you are moving sideways through the air? |
| 19:43.47 | awelux__ | yes |
| 19:44.16 | blast007 | yes, it doesn't seem unnatural, but I'm not sure if it's considered a bug |
| 19:44.36 | blast007 | it's been that way for as long as I can recall |
| 19:44.43 | awelux__ | oh |
| 19:44.55 | awelux__ | I think that was new on 2.0 |
| 19:45.05 | blast007 | hmm |
| 19:45.08 | awelux__ | I've never noticed that on the previous versions. |
| 19:45.16 | blast007 | I haven't played 1.10 or 1.7 in a while |
| 19:56.41 | awelux__ | At least it has the qualities of a bug. For example it's bad for gameplay. The moving tank has a disadvantage against the not moving one. That makes camping more viable. Look at the camping on lasermania on the bars. If you could jump up and shoot the tanks this wouldn't happen. But now jumping up will make it virtually impossible to hit the other tank. The consequence is one team hooging the bars and the other can't really jump |
| 19:56.41 | awelux__ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:14.35 | menotume | JeffM2501: piiingy |
| 20:14.48 | *** join/#bzflag JBGood (i=Johnq@JBAUMAN.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 20:15.33 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 20:15.45 | menotume | hehe |
| 20:16.00 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@24-159-197-101.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 20:16.06 | menotume | Do you currently have a way to see what groups have permiss to view what forums ? |
| 20:16.16 | menotume | other than to check permiss of every group ? |
| 20:16.31 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 20:16.42 | menotume | ok, i'm gonna make you one :) |
| 20:16.43 | JeffM2501 | it's stored with the groups not the forums |
| 20:16.44 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 20:16.49 | menotume | hehe |
| 20:17.28 | JeffM2501 | it's usualy not that big of a deal but it'd be nice |
| 20:17.38 | JeffM2501 | a way to find users by e-mail woudl be cool too |
| 20:18.13 | menotume | ahhh, okies |
| 20:18.23 | menotume | well, lemme lokk at how to determine board admins first, then i can add stuff |
| 20:18.28 | [dmp] | have you checked if there exists a module for phpbb that can do that? |
| 20:18.45 | menotume | hmm, well our version is a bit outdated, i think |
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| 20:22.12 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
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| 20:30.37 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=Chris@s122-55.resnet.ucla.edu) |
| 20:31.15 | JeffM2501 | yeah we should upgrade, pick what we want for mods, then bust it off into our own thing |
| 20:31.45 | JeffM2501 | cus I think in the end we will be doing our own thing with all the global login |
| 20:31.59 | JeffM2501 | unless there is another fourm system that has a more modular user system |
| 20:34.13 | JeffM2501 | man is it a pain to set up cell phones |
| 20:36.58 | TD-Linux | we got a terrible motorola prepaid one a week ago |
| 20:37.10 | JeffM2501 | I washed mine, just got it's replacment |
| 20:38.01 | TD-Linux | our motorola requires that in some menus, you have to push the main menu button again to get a second menu with more options |
| 20:38.15 | JeffM2501 | some do that |
| 20:38.17 | TD-Linux | the main menu button is NOT the select button |
| 20:38.25 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:38.42 | JeffM2501 | prepays almost always use older phones |
| 20:39.00 | TD-Linux | yeah |
| 20:39.09 | JeffM2501 | this is a nice new Sony Ericsson W600i |
| 20:39.15 | TD-Linux | the firmware on this one seems half-finished |
| 20:39.19 | JeffM2501 | has 256 megs of ram |
| 20:39.29 | TD-Linux | _ram_ ?? |
| 20:39.32 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:39.36 | JeffM2501 | flashram |
| 20:39.45 | TD-Linux | that's considered rom |
| 20:39.52 | JeffM2501 | no, it's not read only |
| 20:39.59 | JeffM2501 | it is random access |
| 20:40.01 | JeffM2501 | it's like a PDA |
| 20:40.12 | JeffM2501 | it uses it for storage and computational use |
| 20:40.13 | TD-Linux | I suppose.... |
| 20:40.25 | TD-Linux | but flash memory is never used like RAM |
| 20:40.30 | JeffM2501 | yes it is |
| 20:40.30 | TD-Linux | it's far too slow to write to |
| 20:40.38 | JeffM2501 | for a PC yes, |
| 20:40.42 | JeffM2501 | for imbeded devices, no |
| 20:40.57 | TD-Linux | for register/variable storage, yes |
| 20:41.04 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:41.10 | TD-Linux | it also has limited lifespan |
| 20:41.14 | JeffM2501 | learn a bit about how PDAs work :) |
| 20:41.26 | TD-Linux | usually it's only used to store files and things |
| 20:41.27 | JeffM2501 | it's not the same type of flash that is in like a USB stick |
| 20:41.41 | JeffM2501 | you are thinking in PC terms |
| 20:41.50 | TD-Linux | actually no |
| 20:42.06 | TD-Linux | I'm thinking in z80 graphing calculator terms |
| 20:42.08 | JeffM2501 | it has some fast scrachram |
| 20:42.16 | JeffM2501 | for use for fast calcs |
| 20:42.26 | TD-Linux | yes |
| 20:42.30 | JeffM2501 | but it uses the storage ram for anything big |
| 20:42.35 | JeffM2501 | and not just files |
| 20:42.41 | TD-Linux | ok |
| 20:42.50 | JeffM2501 | so it does have 256 megs of non volitile ram |
| 20:43.01 | JeffM2501 | I could write an app that used it all for computations |
| 20:43.10 | JeffM2501 | or storage of in memory stuff |
| 20:43.16 | TD-Linux | when writing programs (read: games) for my calculator in native z80, the scratchpad ram is used almost exclusively |
| 20:43.35 | JeffM2501 | that isnt' engouh ram to hold all the data for a moden cell phone game |
| 20:43.43 | JeffM2501 | modern even |
| 20:44.00 | TD-Linux | it's a whole 1.5KB! |
| 20:44.11 | TD-Linux | :P |
| 20:44.15 | JeffM2501 | whatever |
| 20:44.26 | JeffM2501 | phone also has some hardware 3d in it too |
| 20:44.29 | TD-Linux | you can also use free RAM that is normally used for program storage |
| 20:44.50 | TD-Linux | I should write a 3d engine for my calculator sometime |
| 20:44.52 | JBdiGriz | heh, JeffM2501 waxing on about cell phones, this is fun! |
| 20:45.20 | TD-Linux | the problem is, it would take about 10000 clock cycles to draw a triangle |
| 20:45.53 | TD-Linux | that's no fun at 15mhz |
| 20:46.01 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, I spent some money on a decent one :) |
| 20:46.10 | JeffM2501 | 1.2 mega pixel camera |
| 20:46.16 | JeffM2501 | takes decent pictures |
| 20:46.32 | JeffM2501 | it's a java phone tho, sadly not brew :( |
| 20:46.48 | JBdiGriz | If you wanted decent, you should have gone with Samsung. |
| 20:46.49 | JeffM2501 | I didn't want to go with verizon |
| 20:46.50 | TD-Linux | java is good, isn't it? |
| 20:47.15 | JBdiGriz | It's not as effective in cell phones as BREW. |
| 20:47.16 | JeffM2501 | brew rocks |
| 20:47.25 | TD-Linux | oh well... I don't know what brew is, so I shouldn't be talking |
| 20:47.32 | JeffM2501 | but verizon locks down many of the bluetooth profiles |
| 20:47.40 | JeffM2501 | I use the phone as a flashdrive |
| 20:47.57 | JeffM2501 | so I wanted it to show as a normal removable drive |
| 20:48.04 | JeffM2501 | this phone got good reviews |
| 20:48.09 | TD-Linux | BREW looks good |
| 20:48.17 | TD-Linux | I can google it and download an SDK in two clicks |
| 20:48.21 | TD-Linux | that's always good |
| 20:48.22 | JeffM2501 | yes you can |
| 20:48.32 | JBdiGriz | but only for Windows |
| 20:48.40 | TD-Linux | that's always bad |
| 20:48.48 | TD-Linux | oh well... I have wine |
| 20:48.55 | JeffM2501 | the debuger and emulator make it nice |
| 20:49.11 | JeffM2501 | worked well when I had to do brew work |
| 20:49.12 | JBdiGriz | and you can't forget the licensing fees....... |
| 20:49.15 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:49.20 | JeffM2501 | well I didn't have to worry bout that ;) |
| 20:49.53 | JeffM2501 | I just wish this phone survived a washing machine better |
| 20:50.18 | JBdiGriz | Hardware doesn't do well in washing machines. Try throwing your PC in there and see what comes out. |
| 20:50.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:50.39 | JeffM2501 | some of the smaller brick phones survive |
| 20:50.41 | JBdiGriz | I can think of a couple of keyboards that might survive, but that's about it. |
| 20:50.43 | JeffM2501 | but this is a swinger |
| 20:50.44 | TD-Linux | it would make my copper heatsink look nice and shiny |
| 20:50.53 | JeffM2501 | and it has like 3 speakers on it |
| 20:50.56 | JeffM2501 | with lots of holes |
| 20:51.18 | JeffM2501 | you still doing phone work JBdiGriz ? |
| 20:51.37 | JBdiGriz | Sort of. |
| 20:51.51 | JBdiGriz | I'm doing WiMAX. |
| 20:52.00 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:52.04 | JeffM2501 | like it? |
| 20:52.29 | JBdiGriz | very much! I'm back into development. |
| 20:52.37 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 20:53.07 | JeffM2501 | cingular didn't have many samung phones that had what I wanted, and they were all flip phones |
| 20:53.15 | TD-Linux | is brew a language? or is it just an API sort of thing? |
| 20:53.21 | JeffM2501 | it's an API |
| 20:53.29 | JeffM2501 | you use C |
| 20:53.33 | TD-Linux | ok |
| 20:53.41 | JeffM2501 | but not all phones take brew |
| 20:53.49 | TD-Linux | java's namespaces scare me |
| 20:53.53 | JBdiGriz | It's a run-time environment, more than an API. |
| 20:54.00 | TD-Linux | oh |
| 20:54.17 | TD-Linux | so you don't code in the phone's native instruction set? |
| 20:54.31 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 20:54.36 | JBdiGriz | BREW is from Qualcomm, so all of the phones based on their chip set run it, plus a couple of NOKIA phones. |
| 20:54.56 | JeffM2501 | only a few cariers do brew phones |
| 20:55.00 | JeffM2501 | most do java |
| 20:55.05 | TD-Linux | the C compiler compiles into tokens interpreted by the runtime enviroment, right? |
| 20:55.07 | JBdiGriz | People rarely write ARM code for the phones these days. It's mostly done in C, and sometimes C++. |
| 20:55.21 | JBdiGriz | All of the CDMA carriers do BREW phones. :D |
| 20:55.37 | JeffM2501 | TD-Linux, there is a compler |
| 20:55.41 | JeffM2501 | just like normal code |
| 20:55.45 | JeffM2501 | for the phones CPU |
| 20:55.50 | TD-Linux | oh, it makes ARM instructions |
| 20:55.51 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, what is CDMA? |
| 20:55.54 | TD-Linux | not like java |
| 20:56.01 | JBdiGriz | ~CDMA |
| 20:56.02 | ibot | [cdma] code division multiple access |
| 20:56.09 | JeffM2501 | ok, and what is that? :) |
| 20:56.12 | JBdiGriz | Thank you ibot. |
| 20:56.17 | TD-Linux | it's the opposite of TDMA |
| 20:56.25 | JeffM2501 | you guys arn't helping :) |
| 20:56.42 | JBdiGriz | It's the mechanism used to divide radio spectra into signals. |
| 20:56.52 | JeffM2501 | TD-Linux, brew stuff is compiled for the phone, so it can run faster, |
| 20:57.38 | JBdiGriz | Qualcomm makes chip-sets which turn your frequencies into useful bits. It's all based on TDMA. Most of the world's carriers use GSM, and are trying to avoid Qualcomm and CDMA. |
| 20:57.48 | JBdiGriz | The future is of course OFDM. |
| 20:58.34 | JBdiGriz | OFDMA |
| 20:59.07 | JBdiGriz | Sorry, I mistyped, Qualcomm's chipsets are all CDMA, not TDMA. ;) |
| 20:59.07 | bryjen | ~ofdma |
| 20:59.45 | bryjen | ~ofdm |
| 21:00.15 | bryjen | ibot: hello? |
| 21:00.17 | ibot | Howdy Bub |
| 21:00.29 | JBdiGriz | She may be a sweet girl, but ibot is a little behind the times, particularly in cellular technology. Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing Access. |
| 21:01.12 | JBdiGriz | And if anyone wants to learn all about turning radio waves into bits, I have a job for you. |
| 21:02.34 | JeffM2501 | well I think the only brew enabled phones around here are on verizon |
| 21:03.18 | JeffM2501 | and it's not like I'm gonna be coding for this phone :) |
| 21:03.42 | JeffM2501 | it does play the MP3s quite well |
| 21:03.45 | JBdiGriz | I believe Sprint has some as well. Port bzflag to the phone, it has the ATI 3D hardware accelerator. :D |
| 21:03.53 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:04.04 | JeffM2501 | somehow I don't think it has an openGL ICD |
| 21:04.19 | JBdiGriz | Do you need a pointer? |
| 21:04.32 | JeffM2501 | and remember I'm the rebel, I'm only porting bzflag to another game ;) |
| 21:04.48 | JBdiGriz | http://brewforums.qualcomm.com/forumdisplay.php?f=49 |
| 21:05.04 | JeffM2501 | ahh they did an openGLES for it |
| 21:05.05 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 21:05.07 | JBdiGriz | So make that work on the phone. |
| 21:05.12 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:05.23 | JeffM2501 | what's the input latency on phones down to now? |
| 21:05.55 | JBdiGriz | From the keypad? It depends on the phone. From the network, it depends on your carrier. |
| 21:06.05 | JeffM2501 | keypad |
| 21:06.16 | JeffM2501 | when I did phone games last it was like 150ms |
| 21:06.20 | JeffM2501 | like "ugg" |
| 21:06.31 | gsnedders | _Manu_: any objections if I make the viper's website a bit more interesting... (in design terms) |
| 21:06.46 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 21:06.52 | JBdiGriz | I don't think it's anywhere near that on the new phones. The brew games wouldn't be very responsive. |
| 21:06.57 | JeffM2501 | I do wonder if the edge data stuff on the phone can get my laptop on the net |
| 21:07.14 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, from the brew games I saw, they wern't very responsive ;) |
| 21:07.41 | JeffM2501 | tho the cell game industry these days seems to be just "get a license, make a crap game, get money" |
| 21:07.45 | JeffM2501 | no real inovation |
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| 21:08.15 | JeffM2501 | that's what buged me about it |
| 21:08.27 | JBdiGriz | I'm looking to see if any of my former programmers are still around. They should know what the approximate keypad latency was on the last phones we did. |
| 21:08.39 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure it's goten better |
| 21:09.33 | JBdiGriz | The racing games were certainly looking more responsive when I tried those. I only played with a couple of BREW FPS. |
| 21:09.44 | JeffM2501 | this phone has a java one |
| 21:09.45 | JeffM2501 | it's not bad |
| 21:09.53 | JeffM2501 | uses little polygon cars |
| 21:10.38 | JBdiGriz | The unfortunate thing about java is that it isn't tied in to the rest of the phone functions. They give you a nice little window to play with, but there's an entire hardware world out there! |
| 21:17.58 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:18.03 | JeffM2501 | the games on mine are dumb |
| 21:18.14 | JeffM2501 | some of them don't even go into landscape mode |
| 21:18.28 | JeffM2501 | the phone has dedicated gaming buttons and is meant to be held sideways for games |
| 21:26.02 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@ppp-71-136-168-148.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net) |
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| 21:40.15 | neverlein | hmm |
| 21:40.24 | neverlein | hoert mich jmd? |
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| 22:02.56 | *** part/#bzflag neverchen (n=d52f5fd8@zeebrothers.net) |
| 22:07.46 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502abb32@zeebrothers.net) |
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| 22:34.02 | *** join/#bzflag deadman (n=vadgoq@220-245-253-141.free.tpgi.com.au) |
| 22:34.20 | S1gn | ~bzfquery ambet.gotdns.org |
| 22:34.23 | S1gn | ~bzfquery amber.gotdns.org |
| 22:34.32 | S1gn | ~bzfquery amber.gotdns.org:5679 |
| 22:34.36 | A_Meteorite | heh |
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| 22:38.06 | *** part/#bzflag zee780 (n=502abb32@zeebrothers.net) |
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| 23:11.23 | deadman | A_Meteorite: are you by ny chance a bzflag-bb admin? |
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| 23:15.42 | zee278 | join #how |
| 23:15.55 | menotume | heh |
| 23:22.00 | A_Meteorite | deadman: no, I wish |
| 23:23.10 | deadman | A_Meteorite: ah k |
| 23:23.12 | menotume | deadman: what's up ? |
| 23:23.19 | A_Meteorite | :) |
| 23:23.23 | deadman | A_Meteorite: locked out |
| 23:23.28 | A_Meteorite | From where? |
| 23:23.52 | deadman | A_Meteorite: th forum and the game |
| 23:24.00 | A_Meteorite | oh, can't help you there... |
| 23:24.17 | menotume | there is no user named 'deadman' :) |
| 23:24.24 | A_Meteorite | lol |
| 23:24.38 | deadman | A_Meteorite: yeh stuffed up my psw and my email on the profile |
| 23:24.48 | menotume | ehat username ? |
| 23:24.51 | deadman | its "a dead man" |
| 23:24.57 | menotume | ahh |
| 23:26.09 | deadman | hats right, but now the accounts inactive, wont let me retrieve pswd |
| 23:26.27 | menotume | deadman ... pm |
| 23:26.40 | menotume | the email there is correct ? |
| 23:26.48 | deadman | yes |
| 23:26.56 | menotume | one sec ... |
| 23:27.29 | menotume | deadman: check your mail please |
| 23:27.35 | deadman | k |
| 23:29.23 | deadman | done |
| 23:29.37 | menotume | deadman: activated :) |
| 23:30.03 | deadman | thankyou <grovel> were not worthy! |
| 23:30.09 | menotume | hehe, np |
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| 23:30.20 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Wayne's World :o |
| 23:31.24 | *** part/#bzflag zee278 (n=502abb32@zeebrothers.net) |
| 23:32.28 | deadman | all fixed - i'm back, here's johnny -thx |
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| 23:34.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
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| 23:51.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
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| 23:53.20 | tunkin | can anyone help me get started here |
| 23:54.04 | blast007 | started with bzflag? |
| 23:54.30 | tunkin | yes when i go to find server it wont bring any up.......suggegtions??????? |
| 23:54.40 | blast007 | what version of the client? |
| 23:55.09 | tunkin | no idea what yur talking about |
| 23:55.16 | JeffM2501 | what version of the game do you ahve |
| 23:55.18 | JeffM2501 | have |
| 23:55.27 | JeffM2501 | when you start it up it will tell you what version in the chat area |
| 23:56.18 | tunkin | 1.7d build 9??? |
| 23:56.22 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 23:56.23 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:56.24 | JeffM2501 | that's old |
| 23:56.27 | JeffM2501 | get the current one |
| 23:56.31 | JeffM2501 | that's over 3 years old |
| 23:56.55 | tunkin | ahhhhhh.that could probably be useful |
| 23:56.59 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:56.59 | JBdiGriz | Where did you get it? |
| 23:57.03 | JeffM2501 | current version is 2.0.6 |
| 23:57.21 | JeffM2501 | 7d, wow that's REALY old, like one of the super early ones |
| 23:57.22 | tunkin | someone else put it on my comp. |
| 23:57.49 | blast007 | tunkin: what operating system are you on? |
| 23:57.50 | purple_cow | that's a lot more that 3 years old |
| 23:57.55 | purple_cow | that's more like 7 |
| 23:58.06 | JBdiGriz | Be careful of running software from other people. |
| 23:58.19 | tunkin | would you happen to have a link to the download site?..........do you mean what type of windows? |
| 23:58.20 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:58.28 | JeffM2501 | tunkin, www.bzflag.org |
| 23:58.36 | JeffM2501 | there is a download link with all the info you need |
| 23:58.50 | tunkin | thanx man |
| 23:59.40 | tunkin | im runnin windows xp blast.. |
| 23:59.43 | blast007 | k |
| 23:59.54 | blast007 | then there is a nice installer for you :) |
