| 00:00.09 | JeffM2501 | is it suposed to be part of std::? |
| 00:00.16 | brlcad | technically no, it's not |
| 00:00.31 | JeffM2501 | wierd that MS would have put it in that namespace then |
| 00:00.33 | brlcad | but the latest versions of most compilers put it there since people expect it |
| 00:00.39 | JeffM2501 | they keep going off on how "compliant" they are |
| 00:00.41 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 00:00.45 | JeffM2501 | stupid users :) |
| 00:00.57 | brlcad | it was one of those wierd things that got left out of the standard |
| 00:01.15 | JBdiGriz | Why is it weird that MS would do something non-standard to std? |
| 00:01.33 | JeffM2501 | just that they have been promting there standards compliance of late |
| 00:01.36 | JeffM2501 | and have been prety good |
| 00:01.39 | brlcad | gcc happens to do the same fwiw, for sufficiently large values of gcc |
| 00:01.48 | JeffM2501 | but if it's a convention thing I understand, they do that kinda stuff too |
| 00:01.53 | JBdiGriz | mstd == Microsoft transmitted disease |
| 00:02.01 | brlcad | e.g. gcc 3 in 10.3 doesn't, but 4 in 10.4 does |
| 00:02.15 | JeffM2501 | oh it's not as bad as you wish it to be JBdiGriz ;) |
| 00:02.39 | JBdiGriz | maybe you're right, but perhaps it's worse. :-D |
| 00:02.47 | JeffM2501 | apples not eactly the golden child ether ;) |
| 00:03.16 | JBdiGriz | That's the MS spirit! If you can't do it right, blame someone else. ;-) |
| 00:03.26 | JeffM2501 | well noone is perfect |
| 00:03.41 | JBdiGriz | distract, distract, distract ..... |
| 00:03.49 | JeffM2501 | at least apple didn't make there own compiler |
| 00:04.25 | JeffM2501 | I'm much happyer now that I don't have to use VC6 much anymore |
| 00:04.31 | JBdiGriz | I'm rather appreciative of that actually, although they probably could have made it a better compiler with a little more effort. |
| 00:04.56 | JeffM2501 | well not making there own, they got more eyes to look at it |
| 00:05.01 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (n=foo@adsl-69-109-217-70.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 00:05.13 | JeffM2501 | tho didn't I read something about apple pulling darwin open source stuff with the new intel stuff? |
| 00:05.16 | JBdiGriz | I believe Intel has a compiler they could use if they had to. |
| 00:05.24 | JeffM2501 | yeah intel does |
| 00:05.30 | JeffM2501 | a prety good one I hear |
| 00:05.37 | JeffM2501 | if you only care about intel hardware |
| 00:05.38 | JBdiGriz | If you only read half of the story, then that's what you read. |
| 00:05.51 | JeffM2501 | I just reember something on /. |
| 00:05.55 | JeffM2501 | I know that's never the full story |
| 00:06.53 | brlcad | i recently did performance comparisons of gcc vs icc on the altix, not much of a surprise winner |
| 00:07.42 | brlcad | without changing any options using -O3, icc was 15% faster; if you used icc's multi-pass optimization, you increased that to 30% faster |
| 00:07.46 | blast007 | VC7.1 doesn't have std::isnan() actually...we added it via include/win32.h :) |
| 00:08.04 | JeffM2501 | did 8 have it? |
| 00:08.08 | blast007 | no idea |
| 00:08.26 | JeffM2501 | will be a long time till I can do 8 |
| 00:08.33 | brlcad | haven't tested how well gcc's multi-pass optimization works yet, but it's yet to beat out icc on all tests |
| 00:09.30 | brlcad | except for default.. curiously gcc beats out icc if you provide absolutely no optimization options, but that's not saying much of course |
| 00:09.51 | JeffM2501 | probably just poor default choices on icc's part |
| 00:10.08 | JeffM2501 | does amd make a compiler? |
| 00:10.21 | ruskie | don't think so |
| 00:10.26 | brlcad | or just doesn't matter.. hardly anyone uses default in production |
| 00:10.52 | JeffM2501 | did you look at that DMG yet? |
| 00:11.01 | *** join/#bzflag AHeartAttack (n=44c7589c@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:11.15 | JeffM2501 | saturos is working on a new logo for us. I can ask him to redo the mac DMG if we want too |
| 00:12.06 | brlcad | when I get home |
| 00:12.22 | JeffM2501 | I thought you lived at work :) |
| 00:12.28 | brlcad | :) |
| 00:12.34 | brlcad | leaving "early" today |
| 00:12.41 | JeffM2501 | at 10PM? |
| 00:13.02 | brlcad | nah, about now |
| 00:13.14 | JeffM2501 | wow |
| 00:13.44 | *** join/#bzflag sniper1234 (n=43abc4cc@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:14.21 | *** join/#bzflag bz19 (n=43abc4cc@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:14.59 | *** join/#bzflag sniper1234 (n=43abc4cc@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:14.59 | sniper1234 | hi |
| 00:15.24 | blast007 | bye |
| 00:20.25 | wegstar | :) |
| 00:23.55 | *** part/#bzflag aaronf0 (n=aaron@nj-65-40-195-90.dyn.sprint-hsd.net) |
| 00:41.52 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901` (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 00:49.27 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901_ (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 00:50.21 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=ATD@user-12l2r0o.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 01:13.37 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-185.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:27.49 | Gnurdux | any devs on? |
| 01:28.12 | Gnurdux | i have a VERY MINOR patch id like to just send to someone, its very few lines of code |
| 01:29.02 | Gnurdux | blast007, do you have commit access? |
| 01:30.03 | Gnurdux | wegstar, what about you? |
| 01:30.09 | wegstar | huh? |
| 01:30.15 | Gnurdux | commit access, to CVS? |
| 01:30.18 | wegstar | of course not :) |
| 01:30.24 | Gnurdux | oh ok |
| 01:30.32 | Gnurdux | have you done any plugins recently? |
| 01:30.36 | Gnurdux | and are you busy right now? |
| 01:30.40 | wegstar | of course.. |
| 01:30.50 | Gnurdux | of course to which? or to both? |
| 01:31.05 | blast007 | Gnurdux: Dev CVS is down right now anyway |
| 01:31.05 | wegstar | that's why I'm not doing as much bzflag stuff as much as I have done before.. |
| 01:31.14 | Gnurdux | blast007, ah |
| 01:31.28 | Gnurdux | wegstar, with schoolwork? |
| 01:31.40 | wegstar | sure, why not? |
| 01:32.08 | wegstar | or... other things caught my interest ;) |
| 01:32.17 | Gnurdux | hmmm.. you have a gf? |
| 01:32.27 | blast007 | GeForce, yeah, I have one of those |
| 01:32.46 | wegstar | Gnurdux: what do you think? |
| 01:32.57 | Gnurdux | that you wont tell me any more? |
| 01:33.32 | wegstar | no... |
| 01:36.15 | Gnurdux | wegstar, ill never get a chance to show off my plugin to you will i? |
| 01:36.28 | wegstar | probably not... |
| 01:36.39 | Gnurdux | what plugins have you been working on wegstar ? |
| 01:36.45 | wegstar | none |
| 01:36.54 | Gnurdux | what ones have you made |
| 01:36.56 | wegstar | I haven't touched bzflag since November.. |
| 01:36.59 | Gnurdux | ahh |
| 01:37.02 | wegstar | look in forums |
| 01:37.10 | wegstar | and you could put yours up there too... |
| 01:37.30 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, submit it as normal |
| 01:37.32 | JeffM2501 | you are not special |
| 01:37.36 | JeffM2501 | noone can get to cvs anyway |
| 01:37.59 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, its almost too small to submit |
| 01:38.01 | Gnurdux | but oh well |
| 01:38.05 | JeffM2501 | no it's not |
| 01:38.10 | JeffM2501 | we need a paper trail |
| 01:38.16 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 01:38.18 | JeffM2501 | as it were |
| 01:38.34 | JeffM2501 | you can't just push your way past the normal way |
| 01:38.55 | JeffM2501 | and can you name your patchs something descripting |
| 01:39.08 | JeffM2501 | not "bzpatch" |
| 01:39.16 | JeffM2501 | cus ya know people may have more then one on there system |
| 01:39.54 | wegstar | Gnurdux: A bzflag bot, IRC relay, and some other little ones..., I compiled them on your comp via VNC and here on windows too... |
| 01:40.00 | Gnurdux | JBGood, ok, submitted |
| 01:40.03 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, oh, ok |
| 01:40.11 | JeffM2501 | cvs is done |
| 01:40.13 | JeffM2501 | down |
| 01:40.16 | Gnurdux | i know |
| 01:40.22 | JeffM2501 | so don't go buging people to apply it |
| 01:40.30 | Gnurdux | does anyone know when it will go up? |
| 01:40.38 | JeffM2501 | no they don't |
| 01:40.46 | Gnurdux | and what if its not up by saturday, what will the release folks do? and is it down for all of SF? |
| 01:40.51 | JeffM2501 | they can look the SAME way you can |
| 01:40.53 | JeffM2501 | check sf |
| 01:41.02 | JeffM2501 | yes it's down for all SF |
| 01:41.04 | blast007 | there's this nice status page on SF |
| 01:41.05 | Gnurdux | :( |
| 01:41.05 | JeffM2501 | it's it's down it's done |
| 01:41.07 | JeffM2501 | and we ealk |
| 01:41.11 | JeffM2501 | deal |
| 01:42.43 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 01:43.06 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 01:43.17 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, ok its posted |
| 01:43.18 | JeffM2501 | I bet you ealk like a little girl |
| 01:43.29 | Gnurdux | what does it mean to ealk? |
| 01:43.29 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, fine, somone will look at it sometime |
| 01:43.50 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, but probably not before the release correct? |
| 01:43.56 | JeffM2501 | I odno |
| 01:43.59 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 01:44.05 | JeffM2501 | you'll just have to see |
| 01:44.05 | Gnurdux | ok. |
| 01:44.11 | JeffM2501 | damn are you impatient |
| 01:44.23 | Gnurdux | if not i can still use it myself |
| 01:44.40 | JeffM2501 | is it release critical? |
| 01:45.05 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, not really |
| 01:45.19 | JeffM2501 | then why risk puting it in 2 days before release? |
| 01:45.21 | Gnurdux | its just a bzfs API function that I need |
| 01:45.30 | JeffM2501 | we've lived 14 years with out it |
| 01:45.35 | Gnurdux | it cant break anything, its too small |
| 01:45.53 | Gnurdux | and totally straightforward |
| 01:46.03 | blast007 | gets the default value of a BZDB variable |
| 01:46.09 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 01:46.14 | JeffM2501 | how can your plugin NEED that |
| 01:46.22 | Gnurdux | it would be useful for it JBGood |
| 01:46.24 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, i mean |
| 01:46.30 | JeffM2501 | should it not just care about the current value |
| 01:46.31 | Gnurdux | stupid tab completion |
| 01:46.39 | JeffM2501 | and let the default system take care of itself |
| 01:46.44 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, for my theme plugin, i want it to compare to the default value |
| 01:46.49 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 01:46.52 | JBGood | Gnurdux: should I change my username? :) |
| 01:46.55 | Gnurdux | and only save a variable if it differs from the default |
| 01:46.57 | blast007 | to know what to save |
| 01:46.57 | Gnurdux | JBGood, lol sorru |
| 01:47.08 | Gnurdux | blast007, exactly :) |
| 01:47.12 | JeffM2501 | why does yours care about the default |
| 01:47.15 | blast007 | Gnurdux: type je<tab> |
| 01:47.17 | JeffM2501 | just allways use the db value |
| 01:47.30 | JeffM2501 | sounds like your making your stuff overly complex |
| 01:47.45 | Gnurdux | well, i want themes to only save variables into a theme if they arent the default value |
| 01:47.46 | blast007 | Gnurdux: can you just save all the variables? |
| 01:47.52 | Gnurdux | blast007, thats what i do now |
| 01:47.55 | blast007 | you'll have to reset them all anyway |
| 01:47.58 | JeffM2501 | and why save it? why not allways read from the db, so it can be changed? |
| 01:48.03 | Gnurdux | but i want to make it use files, and if i send it to someone else |
| 01:48.16 | Gnurdux | it should match up with their defaults |
| 01:48.20 | JeffM2501 | save off your defaluts at launch time |
| 01:48.33 | JeffM2501 | it's just ram |
| 01:48.35 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, the point of the plugin is to save this stuff |
| 01:48.36 | blast007 | JeffM2501: his plugins allows you to save a set of variables to a file, as a "theme" |
| 01:48.47 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 01:48.50 | Gnurdux | blast007, not to a file yet, but im going to add that this weekend |
| 01:48.56 | JeffM2501 | save em all off |
| 01:48.58 | JeffM2501 | who cares |
| 01:49.02 | JeffM2501 | defaults may change |
| 01:49.07 | Gnurdux | the point is for theme exchange |
| 01:49.15 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, thats the whole point |
| 01:49.18 | JeffM2501 | saving them all is the only way to be sure that you set the proper value |
| 01:49.26 | Gnurdux | if i change defaults, i dont want to have to reset all of them |
| 01:49.38 | JeffM2501 | but if you only save the difrent between defaults |
| 01:49.51 | JeffM2501 | then if somone has a difrent default they won't get the eact same satate as you |
| 01:49.54 | Gnurdux | if defaults change, themes should change with them |
| 01:49.58 | blast007 | you will have to reset all the variables before loading the new ones anyway, won't you? |
| 01:49.58 | JeffM2501 | cus they will have there default and you can have yours |
| 01:50.04 | Gnurdux | blast007, of course |
| 01:50.10 | JeffM2501 | then just save them all |
| 01:50.17 | JeffM2501 | a theme should set all things |
| 01:50.19 | blast007 | so why not just save them all, and instead of resetting them, just set them all from the file? |
| 01:50.36 | JeffM2501 | blast007, cus he's trying to be overly complex :) |
| 01:50.43 | blast007 | right ;) |
| 01:50.48 | Gnurdux | blast007, so that if things change, themes will chaneg with them |
| 01:51.09 | Gnurdux | and so that you can send themes to servers with different results and they will "adjust" |
| 01:51.10 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, just check all the vars when the plugin is loaded |
| 01:51.11 | JeffM2501 | save them |
| 01:51.16 | JeffM2501 | assume they are the defaults |
| 01:51.18 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, thats ugly |
| 01:51.22 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 01:51.30 | Gnurdux | and it can be loaded when its not default |
| 01:51.31 | JeffM2501 | it's what you are going to get |
| 01:51.38 | JeffM2501 | then save them all |
| 01:51.44 | Gnurdux | nah, i can use my patch even if its not incorporated |
| 01:51.47 | JeffM2501 | I don't want to keep shoving little things in before the releaser |
| 01:51.59 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, then you can't send your plugin to anyone else |
| 01:52.16 | JeffM2501 | and that defeats the entire reasoning behind your need for the feature |
| 01:52.19 | Gnurdux | as long as they have my patch i can, though a plugin is kind of pointless if it needs a patch |
| 01:52.26 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 01:52.29 | JeffM2501 | just save them al |
| 01:52.31 | JeffM2501 | all |
| 01:52.35 | Gnurdux | :( |
| 01:52.56 | Gnurdux | it wont screw up anything, theres no way for it to |
| 01:53.09 | JeffM2501 | by only saving non default values you make it kind of "mysterious" what's saved anyway |
| 01:53.15 | Gnurdux | not really |
| 01:53.18 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, it's about the prinicple of a freze |
| 01:53.26 | JeffM2501 | you have to draw the line somewhere |
| 01:53.31 | JeffM2501 | that's why I went thru the patches |
| 01:53.34 | Gnurdux | and now is the somewhere |
| 01:53.36 | JeffM2501 | to get them all done |
| 01:53.47 | JeffM2501 | after that, it's just bug fixes and testing |
| 01:54.03 | Gnurdux | ill try to find someone with commit access who can put it in |
| 01:54.22 | wegstar | Gnurdux... |
| 01:54.27 | JeffM2501 | "little" things are what got us screwed up with 2.0.4 and why we need a 2.0.6 when we all shoudl be in the middle of 2.1 now |
| 01:55.18 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, I will pull it if you do |
| 01:55.19 | JeffM2501 | we release in 2 days damnit |
| 01:55.19 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, pull meaning? |
| 01:55.21 | JeffM2501 | REMOVE |
| 01:55.21 | Gnurdux | ah ok |
| 01:55.21 | JeffM2501 | take out |
| 01:55.21 | JeffM2501 | you are not speical |
| 01:55.21 | Gnurdux | ill just use myself and hope somebody puts it in |
| 01:55.27 | JeffM2501 | or jsut fix your plugin to work around it |
| 01:55.37 | Gnurdux | i could even use an IFDEF |
| 01:55.42 | JeffM2501 | we can't hold the release for every little thingy |
| 01:55.48 | Gnurdux | and have the patch define something |
| 01:55.53 | JeffM2501 | no mater how small people say it is |
| 01:55.57 | Gnurdux | could you put it in the CVS just after the release? |
| 01:56.03 | JeffM2501 | I guess |
| 01:56.08 | JeffM2501 | it would go into head |
| 01:56.11 | Gnurdux | that would be good enough for me |
| 01:56.12 | JeffM2501 | where all new code goes |
| 01:56.19 | Gnurdux | cant it go in 2.0branch CVS? |
| 01:56.27 | JeffM2501 | there are no more plans for a 2.0.8 |
| 01:56.31 | JeffM2501 | we have to move forward |
| 01:56.37 | Gnurdux | yes, but just put it in there |
| 01:56.43 | blast007 | ... |
| 01:56.46 | Gnurdux | or will the branch die? |
| 01:56.46 | JeffM2501 | why can't you just obey the rules? |
| 01:56.54 | JeffM2501 | that's the point it is to die |
| 01:56.57 | JeffM2501 | and us move forward |
| 01:57.07 | JeffM2501 | if there is not going to be a release what's the point of code in it? |
| 01:57.14 | JeffM2501 | what's the point of wasting work on it? |
| 01:57.28 | Gnurdux | plenty of people run 2.0.5 |
| 01:57.32 | JeffM2501 | your patch didn't make it, it'll make the next one.. DEAL WITH IT |
| 01:57.40 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, becaus they are beta for 2.0.6 |
| 01:57.51 | JeffM2501 | we have known we will have a 2.0.6 for a while now |
| 01:58.02 | JeffM2501 | kinda since after treapan put big changes in after 2.0.4 |
| 01:58.04 | Gnurdux | most people who run 2.0.5 just wanted more features |
| 01:58.09 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 01:58.21 | JeffM2501 | and we added features to 2.0.5 cus we knew we would release |
| 01:58.29 | JeffM2501 | but after this it's all 2.1 |
| 01:58.36 | JeffM2501 | othwise we'll never end |
| 01:58.44 | JeffM2501 | and be stuck with legacy forever |
| 01:58.57 | JeffM2501 | at some point we have to move forward |
| 01:59.04 | JeffM2501 | and put work into a new version |
| 01:59.07 | JeffM2501 | that makes people upgrade |
| 01:59.22 | JeffM2501 | so we can get rid of the bugs in the 2.0 protocoll |
| 01:59.41 | Gnurdux | well if it made cheating impossible that would be good |
| 01:59.53 | blast007 | cheating can never be made impossible |
| 01:59.56 | JeffM2501 | you can't make cheating 100% imposible |
| 01:59.58 | Gnurdux | my suggestion is to remove all flags that require the protocol to allow cheating |
| 01:59.58 | wegstar | so you are breaking the protocol by fixing the bugs...? |
| 02:00.02 | JeffM2501 | but we can make it better |
| 02:00.03 | Gnurdux | yes, but you can make it damn hard |
| 02:00.11 | JeffM2501 | and we can only do that by breaking the protocoll |
| 02:00.14 | JeffM2501 | and we can't do that in 2.0.x |
| 02:00.24 | JeffM2501 | so 2.0.x has to die some time |
| 02:00.29 | JeffM2501 | just like 1.10 did |
| 02:00.31 | JeffM2501 | and 1.7 |
| 02:00.33 | wegstar | :) |
| 02:00.43 | JeffM2501 | cycle of life man |
| 02:00.45 | Gnurdux | i would remove cloaking, jamming, reversecontrols, stealth, seer, and all of that sort of thing |
| 02:00.52 | Gnurdux | but thats me |
| 02:00.57 | JeffM2501 | that is because you don't know how to deal with them |
| 02:01.07 | JeffM2501 | we have options that let you remove those flags from your server |
| 02:01.09 | Gnurdux | just because they are intrinsically cheatable |
| 02:01.14 | JeffM2501 | no they arn't |
| 02:01.14 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, of course |
| 02:01.25 | JeffM2501 | the only one that has problems now is identify |
| 02:01.36 | Gnurdux | you can give yourself automatic seer |
| 02:01.37 | JeffM2501 | cus it reqires sending more info to the client |
| 02:01.50 | JeffM2501 | not if we change what data is sent to the players :) |
| 02:02.06 | Gnurdux | how can you make hud work but not radar? |
| 02:02.08 | JeffM2501 | if you arn't suposed to see somone, then we can not send them the data |
| 02:02.11 | Gnurdux | and how do you do reversecontrols? |
| 02:02.18 | JeffM2501 | split radar and hud updates into difrent messages |
| 02:02.22 | Gnurdux | at the very least, stealth and cloaking have to be merged |
| 02:02.28 | Gnurdux | hmm, thats a good idea :O |
| 02:02.34 | wegstar | ;) |
| 02:02.35 | JeffM2501 | no we just have to be smarter |
| 02:02.48 | JeffM2501 | we don't have to rip the game a new one |
| 02:02.51 | Gnurdux | but you could still make the radar use the HUD messages |
| 02:02.56 | JeffM2501 | there are more ways to fix things then brute force |
| 02:03.09 | JeffM2501 | yes but that would require a much larger client mod |
| 02:03.21 | JeffM2501 | and that cheat is a very minor in effect |
| 02:03.22 | Gnurdux | thats true |
| 02:03.24 | blast007 | instead of a one-liner ;) |
| 02:03.28 | JeffM2501 | as compared to not dying when shot |
| 02:03.36 | Gnurdux | also true |
| 02:03.43 | Gnurdux | i havent been able to implement not dying when shot |
| 02:03.48 | Gnurdux | server kicks for endshot |
| 02:03.51 | wegstar | :) |
| 02:03.51 | JeffM2501 | wasting time on the small effect subtle cheats |
| 02:03.52 | Gnurdux | or at least my server does |
| 02:03.55 | JeffM2501 | is pointless |
| 02:04.02 | JeffM2501 | when there are biger fish to fry |
| 02:04.16 | Gnurdux | if they make no difference, then neither do the flags |
| 02:04.21 | JeffM2501 | if you make the rewards for cheating smaller then less people are going to bother moding there clients to cheat |
| 02:04.33 | Gnurdux | thats not true |
| 02:04.40 | Gnurdux | not everyone cheats for the rewards |
| 02:04.45 | Gnurdux | some people cheat to see what they can do |
| 02:04.46 | JeffM2501 | yes they do |
| 02:04.53 | JeffM2501 | they are just not allways in game rewards |
| 02:04.59 | JeffM2501 | that is a reward in itself |
| 02:05.11 | Gnurdux | i did that, but only on my own server |
| 02:05.19 | Gnurdux | and on a specially marked "cheat server" |
| 02:05.22 | JeffM2501 | every person who cheats on a public server does so to make themselves feel better then somone else |
| 02:05.24 | JeffM2501 | on some level |
| 02:05.29 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=chatzill@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 02:05.41 | JeffM2501 | the "cheat servers" could be done on an incompatable protocoll |
| 02:05.44 | JeffM2501 | but they won't |
| 02:05.53 | JeffM2501 | because the owners like to see regular users get cheated upon |
| 02:05.54 | Gnurdux | they arent very important |
| 02:06.24 | JeffM2501 | every instance of cheating on compatable servers involves some desire to do curelty, even on a subconcious level |
| 02:06.26 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, what is endshot? |
| 02:06.32 | JeffM2501 | when a shot ends |
| 02:06.40 | Gnurdux | ah, |
| 02:07.02 | JeffM2501 | hence it's name "end shot" |
| 02:07.05 | Gnurdux | so thats how you make shots go through you, by telling the server that the shot ended, but not sending death |
| 02:07.19 | JeffM2501 | no tha'ts just not sending death |
| 02:07.30 | JeffM2501 | it's a way to make shots blow up instead of hitting you |
| 02:07.43 | JeffM2501 | it's more subtle then the god mode thing |
| 02:07.43 | Gnurdux | whatever |
| 02:07.57 | Gnurdux | is it possible to do god mode? |
| 02:08.02 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:08.09 | Gnurdux | just by not sending death? |
| 02:08.13 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 02:08.14 | JeffM2501 | tha'ts it |
| 02:08.16 | Gnurdux | i did a three line semigodmode |
| 02:08.17 | JeffM2501 | you'll never die |
| 02:08.23 | JeffM2501 | so your a cheater? |
| 02:08.33 | Gnurdux | on my own server and the cheat server |
| 02:08.40 | JeffM2501 | so yes, your a cheater |
| 02:08.42 | Gnurdux | and i didnt kill anyone, i said shoot me, look what happens |
| 02:08.54 | JeffM2501 | ok so your a cheater |
| 02:09.08 | Gnurdux | its kind of an obvious cheat. you blow up and your still there underneath |
| 02:09.15 | JeffM2501 | it's still a cheat |
| 02:09.33 | Gnurdux | i had some bots with it fight, it was fun to watch |
| 02:09.40 | JeffM2501 | you felt the need to not play by the rules |
| 02:09.46 | JeffM2501 | to make yourself feel better then others |
| 02:10.05 | Gnurdux | not better than others per se |
| 02:10.18 | JeffM2501 | you gave yourself a power others did not have |
| 02:10.38 | JeffM2501 | aka you wanted to mess with them |
| 02:10.46 | JeffM2501 | for your own personal enjoyment |
| 02:10.58 | JeffM2501 | rationalise it how ever you want |
| 02:11.05 | JeffM2501 | it still dosn't change the fact that you did it |
| 02:11.19 | JeffM2501 | did you send your client or your code to anyone? |
| 02:11.23 | JeffM2501 | or tell anyone how you did it? |
| 02:11.30 | Gnurdux | i told Molez |
| 02:11.42 | JeffM2501 | so you contributed to public cheating |
| 02:11.48 | JeffM2501 | and the debasement of the game for others |
| 02:11.50 | JeffM2501 | good job |
| 02:11.52 | Gnurdux | molez had better cheats |
| 02:11.57 | JeffM2501 | still |
| 02:11.59 | JeffM2501 | you helped |
| 02:12.02 | Gnurdux | molez knows how to do god mod |
| 02:12.08 | JeffM2501 | dosnt' matter |
| 02:12.11 | JeffM2501 | you still told him |
| 02:12.16 | JeffM2501 | you did it |
| 02:12.26 | JeffM2501 | you are part of the problem |
| 02:12.42 | Gnurdux | or was, i havent done it for a couple months |
| 02:12.52 | JeffM2501 | but the info is still out there |
| 02:12.55 | JeffM2501 | it never goes away |
| 02:13.06 | JeffM2501 | you do not use your powers for good |
| 02:13.13 | JeffM2501 | or for awesome |
| 02:13.21 | blast007 | I was just about to say that... |
| 02:13.28 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 02:13.41 | JeffM2501 | are you some kind of robot? ;) |
| 02:13.46 | blast007 | lol |
| 02:13.56 | Gnurdux | the bzflag web site says cheat clients are ok as long as they arent on public servers |
| 02:13.57 | JeffM2501 | ahh good ol strongbad |
| 02:14.14 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, and you did them on publicly comptable servers |
| 02:14.14 | blast007 | it also says to change the protocol iirc |
| 02:14.18 | JeffM2501 | it does |
| 02:14.23 | JeffM2501 | change the proto |
| 02:14.32 | JeffM2501 | that way if a client gets out, it can't be used on publics |
| 02:14.39 | Gnurdux | thats a good idea |
| 02:14.44 | JeffM2501 | then you realy are moding to for the sake of moding |
| 02:14.56 | JeffM2501 | otherwise your just lying to yourself |
| 02:14.57 | Gnurdux | most people arent smart enough to figure out how to change proto |
| 02:15.07 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 02:15.09 | Gnurdux | if i try cheating again ill do that |
| 02:15.12 | JeffM2501 | it's not going to prevent all of them |
| 02:15.23 | Gnurdux | its probably still reckless to release code on a website though |
| 02:15.26 | JeffM2501 | but it at least prevents the cheats people make for legitimate mod reasons from geting out |
| 02:15.31 | JeffM2501 | in binary form |
| 02:15.33 | JeffM2501 | so it helps some |
| 02:15.40 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, thats illegal |
| 02:15.43 | Gnurdux | GPL and all that |
| 02:15.53 | JeffM2501 | most users can't build |
| 02:16.00 | JeffM2501 | so releaseing the source dosn't hurt |
| 02:16.04 | Gnurdux | true |
| 02:16.07 | JeffM2501 | the worst thing is a public cheat binary |
| 02:16.11 | JeffM2501 | cus then anyone can use it |
| 02:16.13 | Gnurdux | and the ones who can can make there own cheats anyway |
| 02:16.19 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, there are a few of those |
| 02:16.25 | JeffM2501 | if you put at least some limits on it, it becomes too much work for the average goe |
| 02:16.26 | JeffM2501 | joe |
| 02:16.35 | JeffM2501 | and cuts out like 95% of it's possible uses |
| 02:16.40 | JeffM2501 | so it' |
| 02:16.44 | JeffM2501 | so it's signifigant |
| 02:17.34 | JeffM2501 | time to go home |
| 02:17.38 | Gnurdux | there was like Jesus and Badger editions, which Molez showed me |
| 02:17.46 | JeffM2501 | yes there were |
| 02:17.52 | JeffM2501 | he was part of there creation |
| 02:17.58 | Gnurdux | he was? |
| 02:18.01 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 02:18.06 | Gnurdux | those were like god mode or soemthing |
| 02:18.07 | JeffM2501 | he was part of that website |
| 02:18.10 | JeffM2501 | whatever |
| 02:18.11 | blast007 | and if regular users REALLY want to watch you fly around at Mache 5, they can build a client with the same protocol |
| 02:18.12 | JeffM2501 | it's in the past |
| 02:18.17 | Gnurdux | that website doesnt seem to exist anymore |
| 02:18.25 | Gnurdux | cause i cant find it on google |
| 02:18.28 | JeffM2501 | thankfully most regular users can't build |
| 02:18.39 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, why are you looking for cheats again? |
| 02:18.47 | JeffM2501 | going to return to your old ways? |
| 02:18.49 | Gnurdux | i was trying to get a link for you |
| 02:19.01 | JeffM2501 | dude, I know all about the cheats and how they work |
| 02:19.05 | JeffM2501 | we know how to prevent them |
| 02:19.08 | JeffM2501 | we just have to DO it |
| 02:19.13 | Gnurdux | and i gotta admit id like for curiosity's sake to see how they did it |
| 02:19.17 | JeffM2501 | throwing links around, just makes people get them ore |
| 02:19.31 | JeffM2501 | it's simple how they did it |
| 02:19.36 | blast007 | Gnurdux: most public cheat clients are lame hacks in the code anyway, and not worth viewing |
| 02:19.37 | JeffM2501 | they ignore the messages |
| 02:19.48 | Gnurdux | just not sending death? i think i tried it though and it didnt work. |
| 02:19.49 | JeffM2501 | it's more interesting to move all the code server side |
| 02:19.53 | JeffM2501 | it works |
| 02:19.56 | JeffM2501 | it works fine |
| 02:20.13 | JeffM2501 | hell I could make a client that spawned a shot in side every user |
| 02:20.16 | JeffM2501 | and just killed them all |
| 02:20.25 | JeffM2501 | you can do anything you want in the client rightn ow |
| 02:20.29 | Gnurdux | well the most important thing is to move shot handling entirely into the server |
| 02:20.37 | JeffM2501 | it all has to be on the server |
| 02:20.45 | blast007 | in 1.7e2 you could make another player kill their teammate :P |
| 02:20.46 | JeffM2501 | just like the rest of the games in the world |
| 02:20.46 | Gnurdux | can a cheat client hack admin? |
| 02:21.08 | JeffM2501 | it could try to brute force it on the list server |
| 02:21.11 | Gnurdux | 1.4 How it can be Prevented |
| 02:21.11 | Gnurdux | The only way to prevent this is to have the server arbirate collisions and deaths, which would put a big strain on the server |
| 02:21.16 | JeffM2501 | but it all depends on how poorly the server is set up |
| 02:21.20 | Gnurdux | thats from the bzflag wiki, referring to a cheat |
| 02:21.25 | blast007 | "big strain" is a joke |
| 02:21.25 | JeffM2501 | if the server password is "god" then yeah it's prety easy |
| 02:21.39 | blast007 | Gnurdux: right now, the server uses like 1% of my Pentium 133Mhz :P |
| 02:21.46 | Gnurdux | haha |
| 02:21.53 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, do you know how much time your client spends doing things that arn't drawing? |
| 02:22.02 | Gnurdux | about 0.1%> |
| 02:22.06 | Gnurdux | i would guess |
| 02:22.09 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 02:22.19 | Gnurdux | so even with 25 clients |
| 02:22.20 | blast007 | there is plenty of stuff the server can do that the client is doing right now |
| 02:22.25 | Gnurdux | thats 2.5% of a client |
| 02:22.26 | JeffM2501 | that is the time it takes to do a full world simulation with collistoin detection |
| 02:22.28 | JeffM2501 | and more |
| 02:22.29 | blast007 | and it would have minimal impact on the server |
| 02:22.40 | JeffM2501 | that's not going to impact a server at all |
| 02:22.52 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-3cf81pe.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 02:23.04 | JeffM2501 | the server just has to do the same sim the client does now |
| 02:23.08 | Gnurdux | what protocol changes have been made so far in 2.1? |
| 02:23.12 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 02:23.20 | JeffM2501 | some messages have changed |
| 02:23.23 | blast007 | shots are now server side |
| 02:23.24 | JeffM2501 | I moved some times around |
| 02:23.30 | blast007 | so it's much harder to do aim bots |
| 02:23.33 | Gnurdux | blast007, all shot detection? |
| 02:23.39 | blast007 | no, just the act of shooting |
| 02:23.50 | Gnurdux | ah |
| 02:23.59 | blast007 | I think the identify flag is server-side more now |
| 02:24.01 | Gnurdux | oh and geno should be server side |
| 02:24.06 | blast007 | so they can't color flags as easy |
| 02:24.09 | blast007 | geno is |
| 02:24.13 | Gnurdux | and shots should store wheter they were originally a geno shot |
| 02:24.16 | Gnurdux | blast007, not in 2.0 |
| 02:24.18 | JeffM2501 | Id now send the nearest flag message? |
| 02:24.33 | JeffM2501 | I don't think shots store there type yet |
| 02:24.40 | blast007 | JeffM2501: I think the server checks your position, and tells you the closest flag type |
| 02:24.40 | JeffM2501 | or any attributes |
| 02:24.43 | blast007 | or something like that |
| 02:24.46 | Gnurdux | blast007, in 2.0, the client kills itself when a teammate is hit with genocide |
| 02:24.47 | JeffM2501 | good |
| 02:24.49 | JeffM2501 | that's how it shoudl be |
| 02:25.17 | JeffM2501 | so the clients never get the actual fag info per structure |
| 02:25.25 | JeffM2501 | you'd have to see what flag was closest when you got the message |
| 02:25.25 | blast007 | Gnurdux: oh, might be right |
| 02:25.31 | JeffM2501 | and hope you didn't move in the lag time :) |
| 02:25.38 | Gnurdux | and it has a big problem: |
| 02:25.41 | Gnurdux | if i have geno |
| 02:25.47 | Gnurdux | i shoot at you 5 shots |
| 02:25.52 | Gnurdux | someone shoots me from behind |
| 02:25.54 | Gnurdux | you get hit |
| 02:25.57 | Gnurdux | your team is fine |
| 02:26.09 | JeffM2501 | yeah the shots are tied to your current flag |
| 02:26.11 | blast007 | well that is broken then |
| 02:26.19 | blast007 | might have been fixed in HEAD already |
| 02:26.24 | blast007 | I haven't tried that scenerio |
| 02:26.25 | Gnurdux | thats why shots need to save geno info |
| 02:26.28 | Gnurdux | blast007, another problem |
| 02:26.28 | JeffM2501 | that's what I mean shots don't store atributes |
| 02:26.32 | Gnurdux | in Rabbit Hunt |
| 02:26.32 | JeffM2501 | they need to store a lot |
| 02:26.34 | JeffM2501 | not just geno |
| 02:26.35 | Gnurdux | if i am rabbit |
| 02:26.41 | Gnurdux | i shoot at you |
| 02:26.45 | Gnurdux | someone shoots me |
| 02:26.47 | Gnurdux | i respawn |
| 02:26.51 | Gnurdux | it hits you |
| 02:26.55 | Gnurdux | and its a tk |
| 02:27.06 | JeffM2501 | they need to keep a state at shot time |
| 02:27.07 | Gnurdux | because the wasRabbit thing is a player attribute, reset on respawn |
| 02:27.10 | Gnurdux | not stored in the shot |
| 02:27.16 | JeffM2501 | nothing is stored in the shot |
| 02:27.24 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, well it ought to be |
| 02:27.24 | JeffM2501 | rabbit mode was kind of a hack as well |
| 02:27.27 | bryjen | hrm |
| 02:27.33 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, lots of thins "ought to be" |
| 02:27.33 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, how new is rabbit hunt? |
| 02:27.37 | Gnurdux | 1.7, 2.0? |
| 02:27.41 | JeffM2501 | 2.0 |
| 02:27.43 | JeffM2501 | IIRC |
| 02:27.50 | JeffM2501 | or maybe 1.10 |
| 02:27.55 | blast007 | yeah, I lose track of when stuff was added |
| 02:28.03 | Gnurdux | well a suggestion i have for 2.2 is to have module game style types |
| 02:28.03 | JeffM2501 | I think it was 2.0 |
| 02:28.10 | Gnurdux | which can even by specified by a plugin |
| 02:28.11 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, code it up |
| 02:28.15 | Gnurdux | rabbit hunt could be moved to a plugin |
| 02:28.25 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, im not sure if it is practical though |
| 02:28.29 | JeffM2501 | much of the code for rabbit hunt is on the client |
| 02:28.41 | blast007 | I almost think I recall a commit early on in 2.1 that made hunters a real team |
| 02:28.44 | Gnurdux | hmmm, well that can be changed though |
| 02:28.49 | JeffM2501 | yeah they are now |
| 02:28.57 | blast007 | that's a step forward |
| 02:29.04 | blast007 | hehe |
| 02:29.10 | Gnurdux | heh |
| 02:29.20 | Gnurdux | maybe i should start to work on file support for me themes |
| 02:30.15 | bryjen | the FiringInfo class has a flagType field and a Team field.... perhaps they aren't being used... |
| 02:30.34 | blast007 | which version? 2.1 or 2.0? |
| 02:30.36 | Gnurdux | bryjen, interesting |
| 02:30.46 | Gnurdux | we are discussing 2.0 |
| 02:30.57 | blast007 | and 2.1 |
| 02:31.07 | blast007 | I was talking about some 2.1 stuff ;) |
| 02:31.23 | Gnurdux | true |
| 02:31.29 | bryjen | ooop, no team field, that's in the previous struct in that file.. |
| 02:31.37 | bryjen | i'm looking at 2.0 |
| 02:31.41 | Gnurdux | but there IS a flagType field? |
| 02:31.49 | Gnurdux | hmm, could it be considered a critical bugfix?/ |
| 02:31.51 | Gnurdux | but no |
| 02:32.00 | blast007 | you can't fix it |
| 02:32.02 | Gnurdux | because that would be an unfair disadvantage to the clients with the fix |
| 02:32.04 | blast007 | until we break protocol |
| 02:32.08 | Gnurdux | to blow up when genocided |
| 02:32.13 | blast007 | (a.k.a. 2.1) |
| 02:32.27 | blast007 | so it will not be in 2.0.x |
| 02:34.00 | bryjen | the check for geno'ed teammate is client-side, but it looks like it uses the flag info from the shot. |
| 02:34.42 | Gnurdux | but ive experienced that bug first hand |
| 02:35.17 | bryjen | perhaps the shot data is cleared or the structure recycled too fast |
| 02:35.45 | Gnurdux | maybe |
| 02:35.46 | bryjen | async things happening across the network |
| 02:35.50 | Gnurdux | maybe i was mistaken |
| 02:36.02 | Gnurdux | i thought i saw that happening, but your right, code does use firing info |
| 02:36.10 | Gnurdux | if (shot && shot->getFlag() == Flags::Genocide) { |
| 02:45.37 | menotume | still no cvs ?! |
| 02:46.32 | Gnurdux | apparently not |
| 02:48.31 | blast007 | "We are actively working on this problem and hope to have it back up soon. There is not a current estimate for the duration of this outage, but when we get one, it will be posted on the site status page (this page)." |
| 02:48.44 | blast007 | riiiight |
| 02:48.57 | blast007 | they won't probably ever post an estimate ;) |
| 02:49.03 | blast007 | it's been that same message all day |
| 02:52.30 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502abb2e@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:53.02 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502abb2e@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:58.30 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 02:58.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 03:00.07 | Gnurdux | yay my floor is lighting up with bzflag titles! |
| 03:00.41 | Gnurdux | blast007, can you come on to my server for a sec, i wanna show you an example of the plugin |
| 03:00.52 | Gnurdux | gnurdux.homelinux.net:5170 |
| 03:03.31 | Gnurdux | orange, do you want to see my theme plugin? |
| 03:03.51 | Gnurdux | btw i decided i will do it one file per theme, based on the RecordReplay code |
| 03:04.17 | orange | Gnurdux: cool.... good decision. I can't come look tonight. Too busy with work |
| 03:04.32 | Gnurdux | ah ok |
| 03:04.48 | Gnurdux | i just made a really cool theme, flashing bzflag title screens on the floor |
| 03:11.03 | Gnurdux | http://gnurdux.homelinux.net/bzscreenshots/bzfi0000.png |
| 03:11.06 | Gnurdux | orange, look at that |
| 03:11.07 | menotume | blast007: sometime tomorrow, they'll post "we fixed it an hour ago" |
| 03:12.08 | Gnurdux | menotume, do you like this configuration: http://gnurdux.homelinux.net/bzscreenshots/bzfi0000.png |
| 03:12.23 | menotume | looks good |
| 03:12.43 | menotume | personally, i have mirror turned off, so i can see tanks without distraction :) |
| 03:12.59 | Gnurdux | i set rainstartz to zero, rainpuddletexture to title, rainmaxpuddletime to 10, and raindensity at 1 |
| 03:13.01 | Gnurdux | no mirror |
| 03:13.09 | Gnurdux | those are rain puddles |
| 03:13.15 | Gnurdux | where the rain is starting on the ground |
| 03:13.22 | menotume | the bzflag image on the ground ? |
| 03:13.25 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 03:13.33 | Gnurdux | mirrors have to be a solid texture |
| 03:13.40 | menotume | ahh |
| 03:13.42 | Gnurdux | if you look closely, there are some others next to it, fading out |
| 03:13.47 | Gnurdux | not solid texture |
| 03:13.48 | Gnurdux | solid color |
| 03:13.57 | Gnurdux | mirrors have to be a built in color or rgb value |
| 03:14.04 | menotume | ahh |
| 03:14.12 | Gnurdux | you can see some grass you notice |
| 03:14.27 | Gnurdux | do you have all effects disabled? |
| 03:14.55 | menotume | most |
| 03:15.02 | Gnurdux | including rain? |
| 03:15.07 | menotume | no |
| 03:15.24 | Gnurdux | then it should work if you set it up on a server |
| 03:15.31 | Gnurdux | just htose settings |
| 03:20.07 | wegstar | Gnurdux: I have some time now.. let me go check it out... :) |
| 03:20.10 | Gnurdux | cool |
| 03:20.20 | Gnurdux | gnurdux.homelinux.net:5170 |
| 03:20.25 | wegstar | what's new in 2.0.4? ;) |
| 03:20.26 | Gnurdux | wegstar, im still on 2.0.4 |
| 03:20.29 | Gnurdux | whats new?? |
| 03:20.33 | Gnurdux | its old |
| 03:20.35 | wegstar | ? |
| 03:20.41 | Gnurdux | 2.0.6 is out on saturday |
| 03:20.46 | Gnurdux | most people are running 2.0.5 |
| 03:20.47 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeff@pool-71-109-230-30.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:21.07 | Gnurdux | wegstar, 2.0.4 i dont even remember what was new |
| 03:21.15 | wegstar | oh well.. nvm |
| 03:21.21 | Gnurdux | but get it anyway |
| 03:21.30 | Gnurdux | even though on saturday 2.0.6 is out |
| 03:21.34 | wegstar | 2.03b14.. |
| 03:21.38 | Gnurdux | "Fool's Gold" |
| 03:21.45 | Gnurdux | or "Fools' Gold" i guess |
| 03:21.55 | Gnurdux | make sure to put the apostrophe in the right place lol |
| 03:22.54 | Gnurdux | wegstar |
| 03:23.03 | Gnurdux | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:23.04 | Gnurdux | The BZFlag developers are proud to announce the final release of BZFlag 2.0.4. This release includes many bug fixes and features, including greatly enhanced graphic performance, server side plug-ins, better HTTP performance, improved game server listing, a new icon, and much more. |
| 03:23.21 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.178.68) |
| 03:24.12 | wegstar | list server down? |
| 03:24.24 | Gnurdux | no, just slow |
| 03:24.34 | Gnurdux | type in gnurdux.homelinux.net and port 5170 manually |
| 03:25.36 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeff@pool-71-109-230-30.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:25.37 | Gnurdux | wegstar??? |
| 03:28.34 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, one more advantage of moving everything to server is laggers |
| 03:28.51 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM_ (n=JeffM@pool-71-109-230-30.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:28.55 | Gnurdux | if someone is lagging, and they get shot, the server kills them and rejects any more messages it gets from the, |
| 03:29.04 | Gnurdux | if shots are server side |
| 03:30.24 | wegstar | been a long time since I played bzflag.. for a moment there..... ;) |
| 03:30.35 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502abb2e@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:30.48 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502abb2e@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:32.30 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM__ (n=JeffM@pool-71-109-230-30.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 03:33.38 | wegstar | Gnurdux: forgot my password.. wait.. |
| 03:33.42 | Gnurdux | uh oh |
| 03:33.48 | Gnurdux | youll have to get it sent to you |
| 03:33.55 | Gnurdux | or something |
| 03:45.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 03:46.38 | wegstar | Gnurdux: a way to combine my interests ... a bzflag server on a micocontroller with all the accompanying peripherals at the size of a paperback book... ;) |
| 03:46.44 | wegstar | or smaller |
| 03:46.49 | Gnurdux | you ought to do that |
| 03:46.54 | Gnurdux | you need to get back into bz |
| 03:47.00 | JeffM2501 | why would it need to be that big |
| 03:47.16 | JeffM2501 | should be able to do it with one of those mini one no bigger then at 10bT jack |
| 03:47.31 | wegstar | hmm.. |
| 03:48.29 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure you could cram it into an IPic ;) |
| 03:48.47 | wegstar | :) |
| 03:49.11 | JeffM2501 | tho does that even have UDP? |
| 03:49.13 | JeffM2501 | probably not |
| 03:49.15 | wegstar | looking at it, it does seem to be able to be done... |
| 03:49.24 | wegstar | well.. yes.. |
| 03:50.17 | JeffM2501 | a gumstix should be easy |
| 03:50.27 | wegstar | I was thinking.. http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/ with an AVR microcontroller.. |
| 03:50.44 | Gnurdux | wegstar, you would need to port all the libs bzfs uses to it |
| 03:50.45 | wegstar | and some added memory, of couse.. |
| 03:50.49 | Gnurdux | to some sort of OS on it |
| 03:50.52 | wegstar | eek... |
| 03:51.04 | Gnurdux | and it would need an OS |
| 03:51.06 | Gnurdux | with a file system |
| 03:51.11 | Gnurdux | for the config files etcetera |
| 03:51.18 | wegstar | ah... didn't think of all that ;) |
| 03:51.26 | Gnurdux | or you could try writing it as a firmware |
| 03:51.31 | Gnurdux | porting the whole thing as an OS |
| 03:51.35 | Gnurdux | that might be a bit hard |
| 03:51.46 | Gnurdux | what have you been doing recently with microcontrollers? |
| 03:51.50 | JeffM2501 | techincaly you don't need a config to run a server |
| 03:51.58 | JeffM2501 | configs were made just to be nice |
| 03:52.06 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, you mean with arguments? |
| 03:52.10 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 03:52.14 | wegstar | hmm |
| 03:52.16 | JeffM2501 | all a config does is pass args |
| 03:52.20 | Gnurdux | configs are really useful though |
| 03:52.30 | JeffM2501 | they don't do anything args can't do |
| 03:52.38 | Gnurdux | of course not |
| 03:52.43 | Gnurdux | but they are convenient |
| 03:53.10 | wegstar | hmm.. sockets may be a bit of a problem... |
| 03:53.17 | Gnurdux | wegstar, you will need an OS |
| 03:53.32 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, I think he knows man |
| 03:53.38 | Gnurdux | you want an OS that provides a UNIX-like API |
| 03:53.54 | Gnurdux | you might need to write one |
| 03:53.56 | JeffM2501 | like. oh say....... LINUX!?!?! |
| 03:54.03 | wegstar | I only know a few microcontroller OSes.. |
| 03:54.19 | wegstar | ah... http://www.uclinux.org/ ;) |
| 03:54.29 | Gnurdux | uclinux might work yeah |
| 03:54.30 | Gnurdux | i g2g |
| 03:54.36 | Gnurdux | uclinux is pretty popular |
| 03:55.00 | Gnurdux | youll need a GCC port for uclinux |
| 03:55.35 | wegstar | O_o |
| 03:56.10 | wegstar | maybe... I might do a bzfs on a microcontroller with an lcd and a keyboard ;) |
| 03:56.15 | wegstar | much simpler... |
| 03:56.17 | Gnurdux | so youll need a CPU that has a GCC port and a uclinux port |
| 03:56.25 | JeffM2501 | you'll need fingers to type |
| 03:56.28 | JeffM2501 | don't forget that |
| 03:56.35 | wegstar | of course ;) |
| 03:56.39 | JeffM2501 | and air |
| 03:56.42 | JeffM2501 | and some soda |
| 03:56.48 | JeffM2501 | and maybe a nice chair |
| 03:56.49 | wegstar | and chips |
| 03:56.52 | Gnurdux | wegstar, so if you want to use uclinux choose a cpu like that |
| 03:56.54 | JeffM2501 | ohh yeah |
| 03:56.55 | JeffM2501 | chips |
| 03:56.59 | JeffM2501 | totaly need chips |
| 03:57.29 | Gnurdux | wegstar, what arch's does uclinux support |
| 03:57.40 | wegstar | not AVR i think... |
| 03:57.57 | wegstar | some Motorola brand.. |
| 03:58.09 | Gnurdux | wegstar, whats your current embedded hardware project? |
| 03:58.19 | JeffM2501 | gumstix ship with linux :) |
| 03:58.23 | JeffM2501 | IIRC |
| 03:58.23 | wegstar | I have none at the momet.. |
| 03:58.30 | Gnurdux | whats a gumstix? |
| 03:58.39 | Gnurdux | wegstar, but how have you been buzy then? |
| 03:58.48 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, use the powers you have and find out |
| 03:58.55 | JeffM2501 | it's a big world, experience it |
| 03:59.09 | Gnurdux | ah teh powers of teh google |
| 03:59.40 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, do they have linux or uclinux, and what arch are they? |
| 03:59.48 | JeffM2501 | read and see |
| 04:00.02 | wegstar | eeek !!! look at the prices... |
| 04:00.04 | Gnurdux | etherstix pack |
| 04:00.07 | Gnurdux | thats what you want |
| 04:00.11 | JeffM2501 | they are cheap |
| 04:00.18 | Gnurdux | its "only" 216 bux |
| 04:00.26 | JeffM2501 | get a job ;) |
| 04:00.31 | Gnurdux | wegstar, than what have you been busy with |
| 04:00.31 | wegstar | ;) |
| 04:00.38 | wegstar | stuff |
| 04:00.38 | Gnurdux | wegstar is in 11th grade i think |
| 04:00.43 | Gnurdux | he can get a summer job |
| 04:00.44 | JeffM2501 | so |
| 04:01.07 | Gnurdux | wegstar, your parents dont give you any $? |
| 04:01.16 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 04:01.21 | wegstar | Gnurdux: what if I had summer classes, assuming that I am in 11th grade.. |
| 04:01.23 | purple_cow | scanlime got a gumstix recently |
| 04:01.30 | JeffM2501 | I saw |
| 04:01.30 | Gnurdux | wegstar, you probably do |
| 04:01.32 | wegstar | ooh |
| 04:01.33 | purple_cow | i don't think he's done anything with it yet |
| 04:01.35 | Gnurdux | at colleges |
| 04:01.36 | JeffM2501 | wha'ts he gonna do with it? |
| 04:01.45 | JeffM2501 | he needs to build something awesome |
| 04:01.49 | purple_cow | who knows |
| 04:01.52 | Gnurdux | my sister in 11th grade was thinking of doing it |
| 04:01.52 | JeffM2501 | like the web robot tank |
| 04:01.59 | purple_cow | it wasn't something he was expecting to get |
| 04:02.07 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, he could build a BZ server :P |
| 04:02.10 | JeffM2501 | why did he get it then? |
| 04:02.19 | wegstar | cuz it looks cool |
| 04:02.23 | JeffM2501 | doubtfull |
| 04:02.27 | Gnurdux | with an etherstix |
| 04:02.31 | purple_cow | because gumstix put themselves on CIA, and decided he was cool enough for a freebie :) |
| 04:02.32 | JeffM2501 | if you've ever meet scanlime :) |
| 04:02.33 | *** join/#bzflag dystopianray (n=dystopia@203-173-52-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 04:02.34 | Gnurdux | wegstar, what looks cool? |
| 04:02.38 | JeffM2501 | sweet |
| 04:02.56 | JeffM2501 | if I do the rocket thing I'll probalby use one to record info |
| 04:02.58 | Gnurdux | wait |
| 04:03.03 | Gnurdux | he got a free gumstix? |
| 04:03.07 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 04:03.10 | purple_cow | gumstix has a cute logo :) |
| 04:03.11 | Gnurdux | nice |
| 04:03.13 | wegstar | luxky.. |
| 04:03.17 | wegstar | luxky* |
| 04:03.21 | wegstar | err.. |
| 04:03.23 | dystopianray | I see no level geometry when using dri with the i810 driver, only wierd transparent bits of the level that sort of appear when i get close |
| 04:03.26 | JeffM2501 | you can get free stuff all the time if you know where to be |
| 04:03.29 | Gnurdux | wegstar, your parents dont give you $$? |
| 04:03.42 | Gnurdux | dystopianray, run it in a windows |
| 04:03.44 | JeffM2501 | dystopianray, you may need to use mesa, the dri implemenation kinda sucks |
| 04:03.45 | wegstar | well.. we are poor.. |
| 04:03.46 | Gnurdux | not windows |
| 04:03.48 | Gnurdux | window |
| 04:03.50 | Gnurdux | press f1 |
| 04:03.52 | Gnurdux | wegstar, how poor? |
| 04:03.58 | dystopianray | ah that fixes it |
| 04:04.02 | wegstar | quite poor.. |
| 04:04.07 | Gnurdux | dystopianray, i have the same problem |
| 04:04.10 | JeffM2501 | you don't have enough vram then dystopianray |
| 04:04.16 | Gnurdux | wegstar, really? than how do you have a comp? |
| 04:04.19 | JeffM2501 | or spend 35$ and get a real card |
| 04:04.26 | JeffM2501 | say what? |
| 04:04.32 | dystopianray | how much do I need? |
| 04:04.34 | wegstar | lower middle class people can afford computers too ;) |
| 04:04.42 | bryjen | stuff about mesa and dri and sucking |
| 04:04.44 | JeffM2501 | that dri sucks |
| 04:04.49 | JeffM2501 | DRI does suck ;) |
| 04:04.53 | JeffM2501 | it's my own personal war |
| 04:04.56 | JeffM2501 | one day I'll win |
| 04:04.58 | JeffM2501 | one day |
| 04:05.06 | wegstar | :) |
| 04:05.15 | Gnurdux | wegstar, than your not "poor" |
| 04:05.19 | Gnurdux | your "lower middle class" |
| 04:05.23 | JeffM2501 | but yes I should have thought of the size first |
| 04:05.26 | Gnurdux | what do your parents do for a living? |
| 04:05.31 | wegstar | stuff |
| 04:05.31 | JeffM2501 | most of them only start out with 8 megs |
| 04:05.40 | JeffM2501 | odd that it would just blow out his lists and not error out to GL tho |
| 04:05.42 | bryjen | the open X drivers use mesa and dri, they're all pieces of one whole. and maybe not the best, but not just sucky |
| 04:05.59 | JeffM2501 | well they didn't handle his out of ram problem right |
| 04:06.14 | JeffM2501 | so that kinda sucks |
| 04:06.19 | Gnurdux | bzflag 2.2 should have support for slopes and smooth curved surfaces :P |
| 04:06.26 | Gnurdux | or just slopes |
| 04:06.28 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, 2.0 has that |
| 04:06.31 | JeffM2501 | with meshes |
| 04:06.34 | Gnurdux | for slopes? |
| 04:06.37 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 04:06.37 | Gnurdux | true |
| 04:06.39 | JeffM2501 | make a mesh |
| 04:06.41 | Gnurdux | but, you cant go up them |
| 04:06.45 | Gnurdux | which sucks |
| 04:06.46 | JeffM2501 | tanks will never tilt |
| 04:06.48 | JeffM2501 | ever |
| 04:06.50 | bryjen | i'd be quicker to say his integrated video sucks :) |
| 04:06.56 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 04:06.58 | JeffM2501 | it does |
| 04:07.00 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, why not :(? |
| 04:07.08 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, due to a host of things |
| 04:07.12 | JeffM2501 | 1) it would not be bzflag |
| 04:07.13 | Gnurdux | such as? |
| 04:07.15 | JeffM2501 | 2) it's more complex |
| 04:07.20 | JeffM2501 | 3) you'd have to make tanks able to aim |
| 04:07.25 | Gnurdux | how would it not be bzflag |
| 04:07.26 | purple_cow | 4) tim sez no |
| 04:07.26 | Gnurdux | ahhh |
| 04:07.31 | Gnurdux | thats a good point |
| 04:07.33 | wegstar | ;) |
| 04:07.35 | JeffM2501 | 4) you'd have to redo all the controls to have a 3rd axis |
| 04:07.37 | JeffM2501 | and tim says no |
| 04:07.40 | Gnurdux | the aiming thing |
| 04:07.56 | Gnurdux | so TimRiker is the dictator of bz? |
| 04:07.59 | JeffM2501 | we arn't stupid, many things arn't in the game because they are not features that are wanted |
| 04:08.04 | dystopianray | I dont remembe having this problem when using 2.0.2, i was using a 6.8.99 X.org snapshot then |
| 04:08.06 | JeffM2501 | he is the copyright holder and maintainer |
| 04:08.24 | purple_cow | Gnurdux: basically |
| 04:08.29 | JeffM2501 | dystopianray, we probalby increased some of the texture sizes and that took more ram |
| 04:08.34 | Gnurdux | g2g |
| 04:08.43 | JeffM2501 | you may be able to allocate more ram to video in your bios |
| 04:08.47 | JeffM2501 | that may help a bit |
| 04:08.59 | JeffM2501 | most onboards default to like 8 mets |
| 04:09.08 | JeffM2501 | you may want to give it 16-32 if it won't affect your system |
| 04:09.13 | dystopianray | it still happens even with textures turned off |
| 04:09.14 | JeffM2501 | gets even |
| 04:09.19 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 04:09.27 | JeffM2501 | onboard video can be wiered |
| 04:09.29 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 04:09.32 | bryjen | the 3d performance of the i810 driver on my old compaq when i went from xfree to xorg |
| 04:09.33 | JeffM2501 | under any driver |
| 04:09.34 | dystopianray | it's an i915 chipset |
| 04:10.00 | JeffM2501 | check and see if you can give it more ram |
| 04:10.08 | JeffM2501 | other then that I don't know |
| 04:10.14 | JeffM2501 | I prefer to use real cards |
| 04:10.39 | bryjen | err, missing some words there. it worked OK, but slow with xfree. random lockups in bzflag with xorg |
| 04:10.50 | dystopianray | dmesg reports a 256M agp aperture |
| 04:11.00 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, would that not be sucking drivers ? :) |
| 04:11.08 | JeffM2501 | agp apature is difrent then ram allocated to the card |
| 04:11.26 | JeffM2501 | the agp ram is only used if the driver is setup to use it |
| 04:11.52 | JeffM2501 | the aperture is how much system ram the card can use when it runs out of "on board" ram |
| 04:12.08 | JeffM2501 | but yours probalby uses system ram for "onboard" ram anyway |
| 04:12.15 | bryjen | JeffM2501: well.... the radeon driver was good on the 7500, so it's a mixed bag |
| 04:12.18 | JeffM2501 | usualy there is an option int ehbios |
| 04:12.32 | JeffM2501 | yeah I hear they did prety good on the 7k series |
| 04:12.48 | JeffM2501 | each chipset has difrent levels of support from what I read |
| 04:13.01 | JeffM2501 | I thought it used it's own GL implemenation, not mesa tho |
| 04:13.04 | JeffM2501 | so I was wrong there |
| 04:13.12 | JeffM2501 | thought mesa was software raster only |
| 04:15.16 | dystopianray | hrrm Xorg.0.log says that it has 65536kB of videoram |
| 04:15.32 | JeffM2501 | 64 megs |
| 04:15.35 | dystopianray | yeah |
| 04:15.36 | JeffM2501 | some systems go that big |
| 04:15.39 | JeffM2501 | dono then |
| 04:15.52 | JeffM2501 | I've never had good luck with the intel chipsets |
| 04:16.29 | JeffM2501 | learner, ping.. I have a folder here called "shellshock" |
| 04:18.08 | JeffM2501 | it works in a window tho? |
| 04:19.18 | dystopianray | yeah the window works fine |
| 04:19.29 | JeffM2501 | wierdness |
| 04:20.27 | dystopianray | hrrm.. it seems like it's only rendering the bottom left corner of the screen |
| 04:20.38 | JeffM2501 | heard of that problem before |
| 04:20.44 | JeffM2501 | stencel buffer |
| 04:22.03 | dystopianray | is there anything i can do to adjust the stencil buffer? |
| 04:22.11 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 04:22.22 | JeffM2501 | it's a standar part of openGL that we use |
| 04:22.39 | JeffM2501 | if it works in a window and not full screen then it realy can only be your driver |
| 04:22.46 | JeffM2501 | or some other part of the X display system |
| 04:24.34 | blast007 | someone with an i855 had the same issue with the quarter screen rendering |
| 04:24.47 | JeffM2501 | probably the same driver |
| 04:24.51 | JeffM2501 | and same driver bug |
| 04:24.55 | blast007 | yeah, the i810 driver |
| 04:25.08 | JeffM2501 | aka "teh suck" |
| 04:25.27 | dystopianray | :( |
| 04:25.32 | blast007 | there might be an i915 driver |
| 04:25.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 04:25.51 | JeffM2501 | I thought intel had mad there own driver at one point |
| 04:26.11 | blast007 | I see an 915 one on here: http://dri.freedesktop.org/snapshots/ |
| 04:27.08 | blast007 | the i915 is actually 'supported' by Guild Wars, so it's not as bad as the past chipsets |
| 04:27.31 | JeffM2501 | every new intel onboard chipset is better then the last |
| 04:27.38 | JeffM2501 | they just are never as good as real cards |
| 04:27.46 | dystopianray | i'm just using the in-kernel drm driver, and the i810 driver from X.org 6.9 |
| 04:27.52 | JeffM2501 | intel onboard video is the reason I won't get a new mac mini |
| 04:28.10 | blast007 | yeah, that was a silly decision on Apple's part |
| 04:28.15 | JeffM2501 | dystopianray, you may want to try geting a driver more suited to your hardware then |
| 04:28.27 | JeffM2501 | yeah they could have put a cheap radeon X300 in there |
| 04:28.33 | JeffM2501 | and it woulda been way faster |
| 04:28.36 | blast007 | yup |
| 04:28.44 | dystopianray | well the i810 is the driver for i915 cards in X.org |
| 04:28.57 | JeffM2501 | that's just the default that x.org ships with |
| 04:29.01 | JeffM2501 | you can install other drivers |
| 04:29.02 | JeffM2501 | and should |
| 04:29.12 | blast007 | dystopianray: that link I pasted shows a 915 driver |
| 04:29.17 | JeffM2501 | x.org dosn't even ship with drivers for nvidia cards |
| 04:29.22 | JeffM2501 | that support hardware openGL |
| 04:29.29 | JeffM2501 | many people have to change drivers from the defaults |
| 04:29.38 | JeffM2501 | for good performance/quality |
| 04:30.16 | JeffM2501 | oooo they have via drivers too |
| 04:30.23 | JeffM2501 | that would work on the little geode |
| 04:37.24 | dystopianray | bzflag is the only game i've had trouble with although i haven't run much, just prboom and glxquake really |
| 04:37.52 | JeffM2501 | we do some things a little difrently then others |
| 04:37.57 | JeffM2501 | like our use of the stencel |
| 04:38.04 | JeffM2501 | not all games use it |
| 04:40.09 | blast007 | hmm, I see on the DRI site that they recommend the i915 drivers for the 830/845/855 chipsets too |
| 04:40.13 | dystopianray | hrrm my distro is using a 20050930 cvs snapshot of 2.0.4, is it possible that there is something wrong with the rendering in the snapshot? |
| 04:40.39 | blast007 | it's probably just your drivers |
| 04:40.45 | blast007 | have you tried the i915 ones? |
| 04:41.16 | dystopianray | i havne't tried those dri snapshots |
| 04:41.22 | dystopianray | but i am using the in-kernel dri driver for i915 |
| 04:48.56 | *** join/#bzflag stahlsau (n=stahlsau@kob9-d9334033.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 04:58.37 | *** part/#bzflag dystopianray (n=dystopia@203-173-52-108.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 05:25.12 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy|L (n=Legoguy@adsl-68-79-31-170.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 05:40.07 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes_ (n=Pommes@p548B1FD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:07.00 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (n=_jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:07.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v _Manu_] by ChanServ |
| 06:08.40 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@p548B1FD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:21.25 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@p548B1FD9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:29.51 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@treebupf.inet.it) |
| 07:17.13 | *** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=Olivier@LAubervilliers-151-11-28-35.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:19.26 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-169-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:49.22 | *** join/#bzflag Admirarc1 (i=mwr25@student.cusu.cam.ac.uk) |
| 08:28.44 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-3cf81pe.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 09:51.12 | *** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=Olivier@LAubervilliers-151-11-28-35.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:13.06 | *** join/#bzflag EbErT (n=edwardhu@168.16.136.171) |
| 10:41.03 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@cpc3-cbly2-0-0-cust776.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:35.29 | *** part/#bzflag conanhom1 (n=conan@190.48.35.206) |
| 11:52.40 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-124-138.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:59.07 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B003EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:27.30 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (n=admin@ACD888AF.ipt.aol.com) |
| 13:31.37 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=a43378c1@zeebrothers.net) |
| 14:00.23 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (n=_jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:00.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v _Manu_] by ChanServ |
| 14:24.04 | Mr_Molez | brlcad: you know of any way to make bzflag work on a machine with shared graphics ? |
| 14:36.31 | blast007 | shared? |
| 14:37.00 | Mr_Molez | graphics memory uses the computers ram |
| 14:37.08 | blast007 | ah |
| 14:37.11 | Mr_Molez | i mean integrated graphics (usually very crappy) |
| 14:37.15 | blast007 | what chipset is it? |
| 14:37.29 | Mr_Molez | something like the sis 730 chipset |
| 14:38.43 | blast007 | does it work at all, or just slow? |
| 14:38.48 | Mr_Molez | just slow |
| 14:38.57 | Mr_Molez | lower than 10fps |
| 14:39.28 | blast007 | if it says "GDI Generic" for the renderer, that means it's doing software rendering |
| 14:40.09 | blast007 | either way, you could verify you have the newest drivers, but it's unlikely that it will be very playable anyway |
| 14:40.12 | Mr_Molez | is there any way to increase the performance for indirect rendering |
| 14:41.08 | blast007 | are you in windows? |
| 14:41.14 | Mr_Molez | yeh |
| 14:42.07 | blast007 | haha, nvm, the card is slower than a TNT2 |
| 14:42.18 | blast007 | so it's probably comparible to an intel i810 |
| 14:42.44 | blast007 | or around the same as a TNT2 |
| 14:42.48 | Mr_Molez | I am just asking ahead. Because I am going to be getting a laptop and getting rid of my current pc and it will be 2 weeks to a month before I can get a new pc :P |
| 14:43.08 | brlcad | ah, integrated |
| 14:43.59 | blast007 | you can reduce the resolution, turn off all effects, fiddle with the texture settings, turn off shadows, lighting, and possibly smoothing |
| 14:44.08 | brlcad | turning down your in-game resultion is going to give the biggest performance change most likely if you're not overstuffing the card with texture |
| 14:44.30 | TheRedBaron | pink buildings are cute |
| 14:44.47 | brlcad | it's also very likely that just some particular graphics setting is horribly implemented, can try turning features off or to different settings one at a time to see if you can find a difference |
| 14:45.02 | brlcad | like stencil buffering for shadows, mip mapping interpolation, etc |
| 14:45.16 | Mr_Molez | ah ok thanks :) |
| 14:45.16 | blast007 | and do 8-bit if it only does software |
| 14:45.19 | TheRedBaron | leave depth buffering on |
| 14:45.39 | TheRedBaron | I play with an inegrated 810 chipset at work. |
| 14:45.39 | brlcad | yeah, if you're in software rendering mode, you're basically screwed |
| 14:45.51 | blast007 | but it seems that the chipset is supposed to do OpenGL |
| 14:46.18 | blast007 | "Despite lower performance across the board, the SiS730 is still acceptable at 640x480x16. The integrated video controller chokes, however, at higher resolutions and color depths." |
| 14:46.45 | blast007 | it has limited bandwidth, which causes a bottleneck |
| 14:46.49 | TheRedBaron | 640X348 is acceptable? |
| 14:46.51 | blast007 | so try 16-bit |
| 14:46.57 | TheRedBaron | *480 |
| 14:47.20 | blast007 | apparently |
| 14:47.46 | Mr_Molez | I think I remember on my old machine sis730, 1.10.8 .. it being just about playable.. |
| 14:47.55 | TheRedBaron | blast007 how old is that article you're quoting from? 10 yrs? |
| 14:48.05 | blast007 | 6 ;) |
| 14:48.11 | blast007 | the chipset is that old |
| 14:48.36 | Mr_Molez | lol |
| 14:48.41 | blast007 | they say it's best for 'non-game' applications :P |
| 14:48.56 | blast007 | it got the living crap beat out of it in the game benchmarks |
| 14:49.19 | Mr_Molez | heh |
| 14:49.36 | blast007 | a GeForce 2MX got like 3 times the FPS in all games |
| 14:49.38 | Mr_Molez | I have a radeon 9800 pro 128 atm.. I won't be getting rid of that . Ill put it in the new machine i get |
| 14:49.58 | TheRedBaron | you can't even browse the net at 640X480 |
| 14:50.21 | blast007 | TheRedBaron: it's fine at higher resoltions for non-game stuff |
| 14:50.32 | blast007 | they just said the performance for gaming was only acceptable at 640x480 |
| 14:50.50 | Mr_Molez | blast007: where did you see the benchmark ? |
| 14:51.23 | blast007 | http://www.aceshardware.com/Spades/read.php?article_id=15000211 |
| 14:51.34 | Mr_Molez | thnx :) |
| 14:52.32 | blast007 | the board there has an AGP slot...not sure about your's |
| 14:53.24 | *** join/#bzflag zee927 (n=8eb00d1a@zeebrothers.net) |
| 14:53.27 | Mr_Molez | I was just using the sis 730 as an example because I am expecting the gfx on the laptop I get to be just as bad as that chipset :P |
| 14:54.06 | Mr_Molez | having a big radar.. does that use more fps or less ? |
| 14:54.14 | Mr_Molez | or the same :) |
| 14:55.03 | blast007 | probably about the same |
| 14:55.17 | blast007 | since the main issue with radar is the calculations, not the rendering |
| 14:55.41 | blast007 | but if you only get like 10FPS, it may be an issue anyway |
| 14:55.50 | Mr_Molez | yeh :( |
| 14:56.21 | blast007 | I recall the S3 Savage IX in my previous laptop |
| 14:57.02 | blast007 | it rendering the ground white, it had a section of grass in the mountains, and it had a mountain flying overhead instead of clouds |
| 14:57.24 | blast007 | plus parts of tanks would flicker to different team colors randomly |
| 14:57.37 | blast007 | it was only an 8MB card |
| 14:57.39 | Mr_Molez | ohh lol |
| 14:57.41 | TheRedBaron | Mr_Molez: having a big radar gives you the ability to turn off all the graphics |
| 14:57.53 | TheRedBaron | and not be distracted by cute pink buildings and funny looking bullets |
| 14:57.57 | blast007 | lol |
| 14:57.59 | Mr_Molez | hehehe |
| 14:58.31 | blast007 | oh yeah, and the text would become unreadable if I had texturing turned on |
| 14:58.36 | Mr_Molez | I don't look at the hud anyway I would probably be sick if i did |
| 14:58.38 | TheRedBaron | I leave dithering on and depth buffering |
| 14:58.57 | TheRedBaron | try smoothing, but if Your FPS takes a hit, turn it off, |
| 14:59.15 | TheRedBaron | Mind you, I have no clue as to the technical aspects of what each one does... |
| 14:59.40 | Mr_Molez | :) |
| 14:59.41 | TheRedBaron | just from experience, Depth Buffering gives you higher FPS |
| 15:00.11 | TheRedBaron | if you ask me what they did, I'd be clueless, I only see the effects and from trial and error, know which ones to turn off and which ones to leave on |
| 15:10.48 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (n=admin@ACD888AF.ipt.aol.com) |
| 15:38.54 | *** join/#bzflag ztoned (n=Kenneth@66-227-209-198.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com) |
| 15:39.29 | *** part/#bzflag ztoned (n=Kenneth@66-227-209-198.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com) |
| 15:41.11 | *** join/#bzflag sx (n=51d3fc1c@zeebrothers.net) |
| 15:41.39 | *** join/#bzflag stahlsau_ (n=stahlsau@kob9-d933227d.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:50.56 | *** join/#bzflag stahlsau (n=stahlsau@kob9-d933227d.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:53.48 | *** join/#bzflag stahlsau (n=stahlsau@kob9-d933227d.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:57.00 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-2.gen.twtelecom.net) |
| 15:57.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 16:02.23 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 16:10.16 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@cpc3-cbly2-0-0-cust776.glfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:35.24 | *** join/#bzflag frank__ (n=frank@213.9.108.240) |
| 17:01.10 | *** part/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@treebupf.inet.it) |
| 17:07.56 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 17:07.56 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 17:25.39 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, you around? |
| 17:28.44 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:30.59 | *** join/#bzflag Mr_Molez (n=admin@ACD888AF.ipt.aol.com) |
| 17:32.22 | Mr_Molez | a picture of yourself ? |
| 17:36.16 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 17:36.23 | JeffM2501 | those are drop dead sexy |
| 17:36.36 | Mr_Molez | hehe |
| 17:36.55 | Mr_Molez | if you say so ;) |
| 17:38.11 | JeffM2501 | I got a tool that lets me change the formating of source files :) |
| 17:38.51 | Mr_Molez | cute |
| 17:40.20 | JeffM2501 | it will make the unix people cry :) |
| 17:41.31 | Birdie | does any (french) guy knows what "supplement TWIN" means? it says that on a page where i look for prizes for a hotel |
| 17:43.27 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-124-138.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:47.53 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501: indent? |
| 17:48.00 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:48.03 | JeffM2501 | but all ckicky :) |
| 17:48.11 | JeffM2501 | and it inserts comment blocks |
| 17:48.18 | JeffM2501 | and does a lot of nice little things |
| 17:48.22 | JeffM2501 | splits long lines |
| 17:49.09 | JeffM2501 | gives you a little sample of code that dynamicly changes as you change options |
| 17:49.21 | JeffM2501 | so you can see what your final output will look like before you run it... stuff like that |
| 17:49.49 | JBdiGriz | so it shows me the output before I've run the program? That's amazing! |
| 17:50.00 | JeffM2501 | just on a sample ;) |
| 17:50.14 | JeffM2501 | I know there are command line tools that do this |
| 17:50.19 | JeffM2501 | this one is just nice and visual |
| 17:50.21 | JeffM2501 | helps me out |
| 17:50.26 | JBdiGriz | indent input.c > sample.c; less sample.c |
| 17:51.27 | JeffM2501 | tho this tool seems to geek on regex |
| 17:51.27 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.143.203) |
| 17:51.50 | JeffM2501 | I'm just playing with it, we may be geting it for our work stuff |
| 17:52.34 | JBdiGriz | Everyone knows that GUI's and mouse are just for those toy machines. You will never be able to get work done with those. I was told that many times in 1984. |
| 17:53.03 | JeffM2501 | the only reason I say it will make the unix people cry is cus I can use it to change all the formating in bzflag ;) |
| 17:53.07 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 17:53.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah mice are just a fad |
| 17:53.27 | JBdiGriz | mouses, mice are an annoyance. ;) |
| 17:53.39 | JeffM2501 | they can make good pets |
| 17:54.57 | JeffM2501 | too bad CVS is going to be down all day :( |
| 17:56.24 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501: It won't make the unix people cry. We can just use indent to format all of the text in any way we want. It's those GUI dependent people who are going to be mad at you. |
| 17:56.38 | JeffM2501 | why would they be mad? |
| 17:57.09 | JeffM2501 | right now they are mad cus of the way it is :) |
| 17:57.16 | JeffM2501 | and can't change it |
| 17:57.17 | JBdiGriz | They won't think about simply using the tool to change it to whatever they like. They need a word processor to do all of their formatting. :D |
| 17:57.36 | JeffM2501 | it would be no diferent then it is now ;) |
| 17:57.46 | JeffM2501 | it would just be less ugly |
| 17:57.59 | JBdiGriz | ugly is in the eyes of the beholder. |
| 17:58.03 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 17:58.37 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (n=7df77e9a@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:58.42 | JeffM2501 | maybe we can come to a compromise on a format we can all work wtih |
| 17:59.04 | *** join/#bzflag EbErT (n=edwardhu@168.16.136.171) |
| 17:59.12 | JBdiGriz | I've always felt that we should use any format that indent can create. That way the tool can be used to reach it. |
| 17:59.27 | JeffM2501 | that sounds like a good plan |
| 17:59.55 | JBdiGriz | So which Unix people would be crying? |
| 17:59.58 | JeffM2501 | automating it is never a bad thing |
| 18:00.10 | JeffM2501 | oh I think just our italian friend |
| 18:00.46 | JBdiGriz | Those Italians are an emotional bunch, but I suspect he is a wise old owl. :) |
| 18:02.41 | JeffM2501 | he's a good guy, just sometimes set in his ways a bit much for my tastes |
| 18:03.09 | Mr_Molez | stereotyping uhoh |
| 18:03.16 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:03.20 | JeffM2501 | just experience with him |
| 18:03.24 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 18:03.30 | JBdiGriz | Nobody is more set in their ways than MrAC and I. |
| 18:03.53 | JBdiGriz | except maybe fearless leader. |
| 18:03.57 | *** part/#bzflag Carnage (n=7df77e9a@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:03.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah he's cemented in |
| 18:04.03 | Mr_Molez | eww it was carnage |
| 18:04.08 | JeffM2501 | it was |
| 18:04.33 | JeffM2501 | I'm probably stuck in my own ways as well in some regards |
| 18:06.22 | JeffM2501 | noone is perfect |
| 18:06.48 | Mr_Molez | duno. I'm pretty near perfect :) |
| 18:06.55 | TheRedBaron | Except Mary Poppins |
| 18:06.58 | JeffM2501 | only in your mind kiddo |
| 18:07.04 | JeffM2501 | and she's not real ;) |
| 18:07.18 | JBdiGriz | What? |
| 18:07.31 | JeffM2501 | yeah nether is the easter bunny... sorry to break it to you |
| 18:07.54 | Mr_Molez | but surely, father christmas ? :O |
| 18:08.00 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 18:08.05 | Mr_Molez | omg ! |
| 18:08.22 | JeffM2501 | I have it on prety good authority that they were just made by the greeting card companies |
| 18:08.47 | Mr_Molez | figures |
| 18:09.55 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: your real though, right ? |
| 18:09.57 | JeffM2501 | I don't know if we can make a tomorow release if CVS is done |
| 18:09.57 | blast007 | now, how does an upgrade to bash work if you're running the update _from_ bash? :) |
| 18:10.21 | JeffM2501 | blast007, it updates the one on disk, not the one in ram, the next one you run will be the new one |
| 18:10.26 | blast007 | k |
| 18:10.32 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, naw I'm a bot |
| 18:11.01 | TheRedBaron | nothing is what it seems |
| 18:12.05 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: Can I take over the development of you. I can fix alot of your spelling mistakes ! :) |
| 18:12.18 | JeffM2501 | you don't need my permision to do that |
| 18:12.25 | Mr_Molez | cool |
| 18:12.34 | JeffM2501 | anyone can contribute code |
| 18:12.36 | JeffM2501 | allways have been |
| 18:13.02 | Mr_Molez | So I can insert code that makes you do /mode +o Mr_Molez right ? |
| 18:13.33 | TheRedBaron | Mr_molez: Your dreams are too small.... |
| 18:13.36 | JeffM2501 | IRC is not part of development |
| 18:13.41 | Mr_Molez | aww |
| 18:13.53 | TheRedBaron | how about a code /send $$ |
| 18:16.01 | EbErT | i think its a bad idea to release it april fool's- unless you think people are going to check it over extra carefully then to make sure it actually has changes :) |
| 18:16.16 | Mr_Molez | But you were programmed to be nice enough to do /mode +o Mr_Molez anyway right ? |
| 18:16.20 | Mr_Molez | april fools huh |
| 18:16.36 | EbErT | april 1st is april fools |
| 18:16.44 | EbErT | isnt[' that when you were wanting to release it? |
| 18:17.32 | JeffM2501 | sadly no.. in fact I have writen into libIRC a check to make sure that no nick named "molez" ever gets +o |
| 18:17.52 | Mr_Molez | thats sad |
| 18:17.52 | JeffM2501 | EbErT, it is just a day |
| 18:18.03 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, not really, nothing uses libIRC ;) |
| 18:18.22 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p54BFCEB7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:18.31 | Mr_Molez | sat :P |
| 18:18.44 | JeffM2501 | we may be pushed off till sunday tho with the cvs outage |
| 18:18.56 | Saturos | :) |
| 18:18.58 | JeffM2501 | and yeah it would be kinda funny |
| 18:19.04 | Saturos | Jeff! |
| 18:19.09 | Saturos | I made a title-pic! |
| 18:19.09 | JeffM2501 | saturos! |
| 18:19.11 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 18:19.27 | JeffM2501 | how did it come out? |
| 18:19.50 | Saturos | looks good imo |
| 18:19.53 | Saturos | I'll upload |
| 18:19.56 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 18:21.14 | Saturos | http://saturos.de/projects/upload/files/title.png |
| 18:21.31 | JeffM2501 | nice |
| 18:21.38 | JeffM2501 | that the startrek font? |
| 18:22.14 | JeffM2501 | can you make one with 2.1.x for the version too? |
| 18:22.15 | Saturos | Dunno... could be. |
| 18:22.23 | _Manu_ | heh.. I have read: BZ lag :) |
| 18:22.24 | JeffM2501 | I dig the grass |
| 18:22.36 | Saturos | sure, I can make lots of. :) |
| 18:23.16 | _Manu_ | Saturos, it's me or you did it to see the LAG like a separate word? ;) |
| 18:23.25 | Saturos | Shall I change something? Or is it ok? |
| 18:23.37 | JeffM2501 | no that's the proper capitalisation |
| 18:23.39 | JeffM2501 | per tim |
| 18:23.40 | Saturos | Well, its BZFlag. So the "lag" is always a bit separated. |
| 18:23.41 | JeffM2501 | I like it |
| 18:23.55 | _Manu_ | yes it's nice |
| 18:23.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah Tim likes the capital F so it can look like that |
| 18:24.18 | JeffM2501 | Saturos, I will gladly commit it as soon as cvs comes back online3 |
| 18:24.25 | _Manu_ | heh |
| 18:24.28 | JeffM2501 | thank you very much |
| 18:24.58 | JeffM2501 | wonder how a froum banner like that would look |
| 18:24.58 | Saturos | np, its a honor |
| 18:25.09 | JeffM2501 | your art is allways so very good |
| 18:25.10 | Saturos | Yep, I thought about that too. |
| 18:25.14 | JeffM2501 | the lighting is great |
| 18:25.23 | Saturos | Maybe I can make a slightly bigger version for the boards. |
| 18:25.29 | JeffM2501 | that would be cool |
| 18:25.45 | Birdie | saturos: what do you use to make this? |
| 18:25.53 | Saturos | blender, photoshop |
| 18:26.04 | JeffM2501 | you do the grass by hand? |
| 18:26.06 | Saturos | oh, and in this case a bit of inkscape |
| 18:26.12 | Birdie | wow photoshop can do so much...i should learn it:( its on my pc but i cant work good with it:( |
| 18:26.14 | Saturos | Its a standard photoshop-brush. |
| 18:26.19 | Saturos | :D |
| 18:26.20 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 18:26.26 | JeffM2501 | very impresive skill with it tho |
| 18:26.27 | Saturos | comes with every ps7 |
| 18:27.04 | JeffM2501 | it still took your skill to apply it, with difrent colors |
| 18:27.17 | JeffM2501 | even have a little brown grass in there |
| 18:27.44 | JeffM2501 | maybe for the fourm logo one, move the flag over next to, or infrontof the red tank |
| 18:28.04 | JeffM2501 | and just put the word "fourms" 1/2 over the grass and the bottom of the "lag" part |
| 18:28.06 | Saturos | Yep, I am not really proud of the flag... it could be integrated better. |
| 18:28.16 | JeffM2501 | for the in game one it's fine where it is |
| 18:28.32 | _Manu_ | don't looks the capitalized "L" a bit slower than the "AG"? |
| 18:28.34 | JeffM2501 | and it's a clever place to put the version :) |
| 18:28.42 | _Manu_ | lower.. not slower |
| 18:28.53 | JeffM2501 | yeah the L does look a little smaller then the A and G |
| 18:28.58 | Saturos | I'll check. |
| 18:29.02 | JeffM2501 | maybe bump that up a couple point sizes too |
| 18:29.06 | Saturos | true... |
| 18:29.10 | JeffM2501 | just so it's top is even with the A |
| 18:29.16 | Saturos | Yep, I can change it. |
| 18:29.17 | _Manu_ | that's why I can read LAG :) |
| 18:29.20 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:29.35 | JeffM2501 | dig the tanks tho |
| 18:29.41 | Saturos | It's okay if it takes an hour? I am quite busy with BZContest at the moments. |
| 18:29.42 | JeffM2501 | and the outline one in the background |
| 18:29.46 | JeffM2501 | there is no rush :) |
| 18:30.04 | JeffM2501 | we probably won't release till at the earlyest tomorow night, or sunday |
| 18:30.09 | Saturos | ok :) |
| 18:30.10 | JeffM2501 | cus of CVS being down |
| 18:30.30 | JeffM2501 | we may not even make the weekend if it's down for too long |
| 18:30.54 | brad2901 | is CVS totally down, or just commiting? |
| 18:30.54 | Saturos | I see. |
| 18:31.04 | JeffM2501 | dev cvs is down down |
| 18:31.12 | JeffM2501 | like hardware failure busted |
| 18:31.16 | brad2901 | ah |
| 18:31.17 | _Manu_ | has been cvs up since yesterday? when I tried to uptate it was wown |
| 18:31.24 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:31.25 | _Manu_ | down :/ |
| 18:31.27 | JeffM2501 | they say 48 hours |
| 18:31.31 | brad2901 | anon is up |
| 18:31.37 | _Manu_ | brad2901, heh |
| 18:31.43 | brad2901 | makes a change :) |
| 18:31.46 | JeffM2501 | I don't know if it's 48 from when it went down? or 48 from when they updated the message |
| 18:31.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah anon is on another system |
| 18:32.05 | JeffM2501 | but is read only |
| 18:32.21 | Saturos | brb |
| 18:33.42 | Saturos | re |
| 18:33.46 | JeffM2501 | back to bug hunting :( |
| 18:34.07 | JeffM2501 | only 8 more release criticals :) |
| 18:36.14 | Saturos | I dont even know TestTrackPro... O_o |
| 18:36.30 | JeffM2501 | oh it's just a bug tracking database |
| 18:36.42 | JeffM2501 | I guess bugzilla is the big open source one |
| 18:36.49 | JeffM2501 | I'm just rambling, don't mind me :) |
| 18:38.34 | Saturos | :) |
| 18:38.41 | blast007 | there's Trac too |
| 18:38.47 | blast007 | but that's more than just bug tracking |
| 18:39.56 | JeffM2501 | and the SF stuff |
| 18:40.04 | JeffM2501 | tho does anyone actualy use that stuff? |
| 18:40.06 | JeffM2501 | somone must |
| 18:43.58 | Mr_Molez | cvs is only ever down when you need it :) |
| 18:45.37 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: Did you have success getting CVS and fixing it yet? |
| 18:45.47 | JeffM2501 | no cvs is still down |
| 18:45.59 | JeffM2501 | I fixed the problem in the code at home |
| 18:46.09 | JeffM2501 | I can tell you how to fix it if you'd like to play |
| 18:46.12 | JeffM2501 | it's a simple fix |
| 18:46.25 | ToughShooter | I have a backup |
| 18:46.29 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 18:46.39 | JeffM2501 | as soon as CVS is back up I'll be able to commit the fix |
| 18:46.44 | ToughShooter | though it is not on randomly accessible media :/ |
| 18:46.50 | JeffM2501 | but they say it will take at least 2 days to fix CVS |
| 18:47.08 | _Manu_ | SF svn is up :/ |
| 18:47.18 | JeffM2501 | sadly we have not converted to that |
| 18:47.30 | _Manu_ | I know |
| 18:47.31 | JeffM2501 | tho brlcad and myself spoke about that yesterday |
| 18:47.36 | ToughShooter | 2.0.4 works somehow but with a lot of jittering tanks and bullets go through me, too |
| 18:47.39 | _Manu_ | Tupone and me too |
| 18:47.41 | JeffM2501 | he woudl like to wait and make sure it's stable |
| 18:48.19 | _Manu_ | yes, better |
| 18:48.47 | JeffM2501 | I think that maybe we should run on our CVS or SVN for development and have it mirrored to SF |
| 18:48.52 | JeffM2501 | that way we have a 2 level backup |
| 18:49.08 | JeffM2501 | and can still use SF when we get /.ed and stuff |
| 18:49.38 | JeffM2501 | but I don't know how hard that is to setup and maintain |
| 18:49.45 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 18:49.45 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 18:50.02 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@ppp-69-239-143-219.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net) |
| 18:50.24 | _Manu_ | I think musn't be a big problem |
| 18:51.40 | _Manu_ | and better than SF. Now we only can wait |
| 18:51.57 | A_Meteorite | Eh? |
| 18:52.46 | _Manu_ | A_Meteorite, it's because cvs at SF is down |
| 18:52.53 | A_Meteorite | ahh |
| 18:52.59 | A_Meteorite | well, Subversion is working fine now :) |
| 18:53.10 | _Manu_ | yes |
| 18:53.30 | A_Meteorite | are you thinking of migrating to SVN? |
| 18:53.40 | ToughShooter | hehe, anoncvs works, though ;) |
| 18:53.47 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:53.51 | JeffM2501 | anon is on it's own system |
| 18:54.00 | JeffM2501 | they had a hardware failure on the dev cvs system |
| 18:54.06 | ToughShooter | anon is soo broken most of time |
| 18:54.31 | JeffM2501 | I don't think it's broken, just flooded |
| 18:54.38 | blast007 | they found out you can't cook eggs in the Dev CVS server |
| 18:54.39 | Tupone | now there is no need to sync dev and cvs |
| 18:54.53 | BenUrban | blast007: yes you can |
| 18:54.59 | BenUrban | it just takes practice |
| 18:55.03 | Tupone | hi BenUrban |
| 18:55.06 | BenUrban | and patience |
| 18:55.07 | BenUrban | hi there |
| 18:55.14 | blast007 | BenUrban: they didn't have a pan though ;) |
| 18:55.22 | blast007 | so they just put it in the CPU fan |
| 18:55.27 | blast007 | made quite a mess |
| 18:55.29 | BenUrban | i knew i had recognized your name when i looked up the games herd |
| 18:55.39 | BenUrban | and i suspected i recognized it from here :) |
| 18:55.50 | _Manu_ | blast007, you did the last commit.. I guess you have broken the server ;-p |
| 18:55.59 | blast007 | _Manu_: yup, I'm that good |
| 18:56.07 | BenUrban | blast007: scrambled eggs? |
| 18:56.16 | ToughShooter | Sometimes we have 52C in the garden at summer..is that enough to cook eggs? |
| 18:56.26 | blast007 | injected eggs via the scp |
| 18:56.31 | BenUrban | ouch |
| 18:56.38 | Tupone | BenUrban: but don't expect too much from me. I'm new there |
| 18:56.44 | BenUrban | yeah i know |
| 18:57.38 | brlcad | JeffM2501: I am now |
| 18:58.02 | JeffM2501 | I forgot what I was gonna ask you now |
| 18:58.25 | _Manu_ | :) then probably nothing important |
| 19:00.28 | JeffM2501 | probably not |
| 19:00.42 | JeffM2501 | tho brlcad should look at the nice logo saturos made for us |
| 19:10.28 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@ppp-69-239-143-219.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net) |
| 19:10.40 | orange | JeffM2501: your indent thing |
| 19:11.07 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901` (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 19:11.35 | BenUrban | bah |
| 19:11.51 | JeffM2501 | all of them |
| 19:11.56 | JeffM2501 | orange, ohh yeah |
| 19:12.00 | BenUrban | yep |
| 19:12.01 | JeffM2501 | mehh it can wait |
| 19:12.53 | BenUrban | hmm i guess now is as good a time as any to learn distutils |
| 19:18.02 | brlcad | ToughShooter: but anoncvs isn't changing much on a cvs update now is it? :) |
| 19:18.43 | brlcad | JeffM2501: i looked at the dmg's on m.b.o .. which one are you talking about? |
| 19:18.57 | JeffM2501 | no no, on .bz |
| 19:19.01 | JeffM2501 | in the beta web dir |
| 19:19.04 | brlcad | ahh |
| 19:19.07 | JeffM2501 | YOUR server |
| 19:19.21 | JeffM2501 | also I found a folder called "shellshock" |
| 19:19.22 | brlcad | on it's way |
| 19:19.28 | brlcad | i saw |
| 19:19.30 | JeffM2501 | and ziped it an uploaded it to my home dir on bz |
| 19:19.40 | brlcad | cool, i'll give it a shot |
| 19:19.43 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 19:21.14 | *** join/#bzflag brad2901 (n=brad@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 19:21.41 | brlcad | interesting |
| 19:21.46 | brlcad | how was the image made? |
| 19:21.53 | brlcad | looks semi cell-shaded |
| 19:24.45 | _Manu_ | brlcad, he wrote it. (photoshop, blender and inkscape iirc) |
| 19:25.27 | JeffM2501 | he's going to make some mods for us |
| 19:25.33 | JeffM2501 | and make also a new fourm banner |
| 19:27.56 | brlcad | ahh, interesting |
| 19:28.28 | brlcad | so basically I'm looking at a yafray render with bzflag textures |
| 19:28.28 | Tupone | so I guess 1st of April is failing down :( |
| 19:28.37 | brlcad | Tupone: maybe that's the joke ;) |
| 19:28.52 | Tupone | they did that to us ? |
| 19:29.00 | brlcad | heh, no |
| 19:29.20 | brlcad | no business would go to that extent for an april fools joke, even to non-paying customers :) |
| 19:30.20 | Tupone | j/k |
| 19:30.36 | brlcad | JeffM2501: this source formatting tool wouldn't happen to be intellij would it? |
| 19:31.07 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 19:31.09 | JeffM2501 | sourceformatX |
| 19:31.13 | brlcad | ah |
| 19:31.36 | brlcad | 'idea' has a visual preview of the style it will apply for you too |
| 19:32.03 | brlcad | not really different than 'indent', aside from the clicky gui aspect ;) |
| 19:32.03 | JeffM2501 | it's a little "shareware" thing I foudn on the net |
| 19:32.05 | JeffM2501 | it's not bad |
| 19:32.15 | JeffM2501 | will indent add comment blocks and stuff? |
| 19:32.33 | brlcad | add new blocks where non existed? |
| 19:32.39 | brlcad | or format existing ones into blocks? |
| 19:32.49 | brlcad | it'll do the latter iirc |
| 19:32.53 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 19:33.39 | brlcad | having comment blocks put in front of all classes that just needed a description filled out would be neat -- especially if they were doxygenified |
| 19:35.17 | brlcad | JeffM2501: as for the dmg, some detail polish on the install I think, but I like the basic idea |
| 19:36.02 | JeffM2501 | if you need a biger image, I just pulled it from one of his desktop images he made :) |
| 19:36.08 | brlcad | the background didn't apply in case you were wondering also, but that shouldn't be an issue when I piece it together |
| 19:36.09 | JeffM2501 | so there is more of the image that I croped |
| 19:36.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah that DMG was jacked up |
| 19:36.28 | JeffM2501 | I found others latter where I did it right :) |
| 19:36.44 | JeffM2501 | I was just playing around with making them for my own learning |
| 19:37.05 | brlcad | would be convenient if the background image size matches the previous |
| 19:37.22 | brlcad | that way I can just drop it in |
| 19:37.44 | JeffM2501 | how big was the old one? |
| 19:38.06 | brlcad | If we're going to start shipping resources in dirs like that, I'm thinking we can put it all in a single folder (that they'll still just drag to Applications) |
| 19:38.19 | brlcad | maybe make the folder icon also be the app icon |
| 19:38.29 | JeffM2501 | did the disk icon come over? |
| 19:38.31 | brlcad | i don't remember, I'd have to pull it up |
| 19:38.40 | brlcad | should be the same ratio as 640x480 |
| 19:38.46 | brlcad | probably 320x200 if I had to guess |
| 19:38.49 | JeffM2501 | 4/3 |
| 19:39.36 | brlcad | with a little kudo to saturos in one of the corners |
| 19:39.56 | JeffM2501 | I'll see what I can do when I get home |
| 19:39.58 | JeffM2501 | or have time today |
| 19:41.30 | brlcad | I should rewrite the readme(s) too so they make sense from binary distributions too |
| 19:41.51 | JeffM2501 | I rewrote the windows readme to talk more about the right way to build |
| 19:42.05 | JeffM2501 | windows has it's own HTML readme, it probalby should be gone over. |
| 19:43.46 | brlcad | where that tank icon come from? |
| 19:47.30 | JeffM2501 | the interent |
| 19:47.35 | JeffM2501 | I don't remember where |
| 19:47.41 | JeffM2501 | don't think we can use it |
| 19:54.24 | *** part/#bzflag Mr_Molez (n=admin@ACD888AF.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:05.41 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-2.gen.twtelecom.net) |
| 20:05.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 20:09.57 | Thumper_ | JeffM2501: do global mute groups make any sense at all? can't people just opt out of them? |
| 20:14.52 | brlcad | JeffM2501: k, that was more to the point :) |
| 20:15.09 | brlcad | just making sure |
| 20:15.43 | brlcad | Thumper_: i believe there already are, or there could be easily |
| 20:15.53 | brlcad | though it would be an antitalk perm |
| 20:16.08 | *** join/#bzflag Ace (n=40956b1d@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:16.51 | *** join/#bzflag Ace (n=40956b1d@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 20:17.11 | Ace | ? |
| 20:17.16 | blast007 | ! |
| 20:17.48 | blast007 | Ace: need something? ;) |
| 20:17.55 | Ace | downloaded bzf 2.04 and now i can't jump (crashes w/i about one minute or less (Win version) |
| 20:18.15 | blast007 | strange |
| 20:18.22 | blast007 | what version of windows? |
| 20:18.36 | Ace | win 98 (SE) I turned off Zone Alarm |
| 20:18.52 | blast007 | ick |
| 20:19.00 | Ace | I dumped 2.04 and reinstalled 2.00 still no jump! |
| 20:19.11 | blast007 | and 2.0.0 worked before? |
| 20:19.28 | menotume | key mappings |
| 20:19.39 | Ace | Worked just fine up until I removed it a day ago (dumb) |
| 20:19.44 | blast007 | ah |
| 20:19.46 | menotume | ace, what key do you use to jump ? |
| 20:20.16 | Ace | I installed Zone Alarm because I thought I had transponder problems causing me lag (SBC DSL) |
| 20:20.23 | Ace | Tab key |
| 20:20.30 | menotume | ohhh, hmmm |
| 20:20.39 | menotume | well, i would check key bindings anyway |
| 20:20.47 | Ace | Did something remap the key? |
| 20:20.48 | blast007 | or blow away the whole config |
| 20:20.56 | blast007 | if it's crashing too |
| 20:21.00 | Ace | I can pick up and drop the flag w/ space still |
| 20:21.11 | menotume | bzflag: options / input settings / change key mapping |
| 20:21.16 | blast007 | I can't recall if 9x was still supported in 2.0.4 |
| 20:21.19 | Ace | Iit also says I don't have permission to message admin!!! |
| 20:21.19 | menotume | check the jump key definition |
| 20:21.40 | blast007 | that's the server setting |
| 20:21.48 | blast007 | probably need to have a registered username |
| 20:21.53 | menotume | Ace: is thta when you hit 'z' ? |
| 20:22.32 | Ace | I have a registered login it auto approves now but did ask to identify when I fist installed 2.04..... |
| 20:23.20 | Ace | Yep hit z admin comes up I type message, then the server says I don't have permission (?) |
| 20:23.54 | blast007 | when playing, is there a plus sign by your name on the scoreboard? |
| 20:25.11 | Ace | When I uninstalled 2.00 I had to type in my password. But when I uninstal'ed and re-installed 2.04 it REMEMBERED my handle and password (!?) |
| 20:25.32 | menotume | ~seen cvs |
| 20:25.42 | ibot | cvs <n=invisibo@unaffiliated/cvs> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian-br, 1d 2h 55m 37s ago, saying: 'EversonCaratti, openoffice faz isso'. |
| 20:25.50 | blast007 | lol |
| 20:26.09 | ToughShooter | ~karma c |
| 20:26.09 | ibot | c has karma of 10 |
| 20:26.11 | Ace | That's a good point ( sign) I don't remember. (I'll check and get back to you if you want ).... |
| 20:26.13 | ToughShooter | ~c++ |
| 20:27.25 | Ace | The plus sign is for registered logged in users only correct?? |
| 20:27.31 | blast007 | yeah |
| 20:27.45 | blast007 | a negative sign means a registered username, but not logged in |
| 20:28.25 | Ace | Louman's lazer sit shows me w/ a plus sign |
| 20:28.31 | Ace | site i mean |
| 20:29.26 | Ace | so does viper.pimpi (Two Castles site) |
| 20:29.32 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauvra.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 20:29.54 | Ace | currently using 2.00 of course |
| 20:30.15 | blast007 | k |
| 20:33.43 | brlcad | hmm.. what year did bz go open source? |
| 20:34.09 | Ace | n0o response to admin can they check my client for errors if a teammate messages them for me? |
| 20:34.22 | Ace | no response FROM admin |
| 20:34.57 | Ace | still no jump (and I live to jump) |
| 20:35.13 | Ace | I can hear and see and talk to team |
| 20:35.28 | Ace | i can shoot and be shot just NO JUMP! |
| 20:35.56 | blast007 | Ace: go into your My Documents folder and find the My BZFlag Files folder |
| 20:36.01 | brlcad | tanks shouldn't jump |
| 20:36.07 | Ace | will do... |
| 20:36.23 | brlcad | that's a bug that will be fixed in a future release |
| 20:36.28 | blast007 | then rename My BZFlag Files something else for a bit, and relaunch the client |
| 20:36.39 | blast007 | (it will reset everything to defaults) |
| 20:38.49 | Ace | I only have a DOC and DATA folder under program files bzflag2.0.0 |
| 20:39.18 | blast007 | no, in your "My Documents" folder |
| 20:39.43 | blast007 | probably c:\My Documents |
| 20:40.25 | Ace | Maybe THAT is the problem no bzflag in My Documents folder (?) |
| 20:40.53 | blast007 | I'm not sure where it looks for it on 98SE |
| 20:41.10 | Ace | I'dd do a search |
| 20:41.41 | Ace | FOUND it ! |
| 20:41.44 | blast007 | k |
| 20:42.01 | Ace | It's called My BZFLAG FILES |
| 20:42.12 | Ace | you wanted me to rename it? |
| 20:43.35 | Ace | renamed it, trying client now........ |
| 20:47.18 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-124-138.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:50.01 | Ace | THAT WORKED!! I now except you as my personal saviour in all things BZFLAG, thx! |
| 20:50.48 | Ace | blast007 much appreciated.... |
| 20:50.58 | blast007 | :) |
| 20:56.26 | orange | ~blast007++ |
| 20:56.27 | orange | for patience :-) |
| 20:56.38 | orange | and because he didn't know how to do it |
| 20:57.46 | blast007 | :) |
| 21:18.52 | *** join/#bzflag en4rab (n=nospam@85-210-50-231.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 21:21.03 | brlcad | wow |
| 21:21.21 | brlcad | the debian project folks recanted on the GFDL |
| 21:22.12 | *** join/#bzflag odie (n=odie@84-74-198-213.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:22.20 | brlcad | at least partially, but in a major way |
| 21:22.43 | JeffM2501 | Thumper_, yeah groups that remove perms are pointless, and shold be done localy |
| 21:23.04 | brlcad | was it good? |
| 21:23.06 | JeffM2501 | very |
| 21:23.12 | brlcad | excellent |
| 21:23.12 | JeffM2501 | tri-tip roast |
| 21:23.19 | brlcad | mm.. beef |
| 21:23.20 | JeffM2501 | and a most pretty waitress |
| 21:23.30 | brlcad | mm.. meat |
| 21:24.21 | brlcad | need your help sorting a bunch of names out |
| 21:24.37 | JeffM2501 | the place was one of the places I'd have liked to take everyone too had I been able to con sporty into coming out this far :) |
| 21:24.39 | JeffM2501 | names? |
| 21:24.58 | brlcad | yeah, history of bzflag, involvement timelines of sorts for various people |
| 21:25.04 | JeffM2501 | umm ok |
| 21:25.43 | brlcad | cleaning up the authors file in a major way |
| 21:25.58 | *** part/#bzflag en4rab (n=nospam@85-210-50-231.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 21:28.37 | *** join/#bzflag BWD (i=bdotson@pdpc/supporter/student/bdotson) |
| 21:30.41 | *** join/#bzflag helpplease (i=ghjkghjk@c-24-218-163-107.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 21:30.47 | helpplease | what can I use to compile? |
| 21:32.27 | JeffM2501 | well ask me what ever you need |
| 21:32.37 | JeffM2501 | helpplease, ummm depends on your OS |
| 21:32.43 | JeffM2501 | and what tools you have access too |
| 21:32.50 | JeffM2501 | probably |
| 21:33.38 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, just change all instances of "tim riker" to "Jeff Myers" and it'll be fine ;) |
| 21:33.49 | blast007 | hehe |
| 21:33.50 | JeffM2501 | or "jeff myers and his good friend sean" |
| 21:34.35 | blast007 | helpplease: so redsox, you still there? |
| 21:34.36 | helpplease | i am on windows, i just want to compile something nothing special. |
| 21:34.52 | JeffM2501 | windows does not come wiht a compiler |
| 21:34.59 | JeffM2501 | you have 4 choices |
| 21:35.02 | helpplease | i tryed dev c++ |
| 21:35.04 | JeffM2501 | you can buy Visual C++ |
| 21:35.07 | helpplease | but seems junkie |
| 21:35.14 | JeffM2501 | you can try the free VC8 express |
| 21:35.18 | JeffM2501 | you can use devC++ |
| 21:35.20 | JeffM2501 | or mingq |
| 21:35.23 | JeffM2501 | mingw |
| 21:35.30 | JeffM2501 | none of them are simple to use |
| 21:35.35 | JeffM2501 | all require some knowledge and setup |
| 21:35.42 | JeffM2501 | compiling IS something special |
| 21:35.51 | JeffM2501 | what did you need to build? |
| 21:35.58 | JeffM2501 | a mod or patch? |
| 21:36.04 | JeffM2501 | or just to get the current version? |
| 21:36.25 | helpplease | a mod. |
| 21:36.31 | JeffM2501 | what mod? |
| 21:36.47 | redsoxs | btw it is aloud that you can cheat at cheat servers? |
| 21:36.55 | *** part/#bzflag odie (n=odie@84-74-198-213.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:37.01 | JeffM2501 | we don't condone cheating of any type |
| 21:37.12 | redsoxs | and you can host cheat servers?,becuse tim says you can host servers.. |
| 21:37.12 | JeffM2501 | we don't allow "cheat servers" to list on the public list |
| 21:37.20 | redsoxs | ok |
| 21:37.26 | JeffM2501 | but people can host what ever servers they want |
| 21:37.34 | JeffM2501 | if you are building a cheat client we will not help you |
| 21:37.43 | redsoxs | nah dont need that.. |
| 21:37.56 | redsoxs | im trying to learn the code.. |
| 21:38.07 | JeffM2501 | then I would start by learning your compiler |
| 21:38.10 | JeffM2501 | and simple C++ stuff |
| 21:38.14 | JeffM2501 | not jump right into the game |
| 21:38.25 | JeffM2501 | do the various tutorials on the net |
| 21:38.28 | redsoxs | ok |
| 21:41.04 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host253-221.pool870.interbusiness.it) |
| 21:52.34 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 22:00.12 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, are you redoing the main readme too? |
| 22:00.17 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-169-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:00.37 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-2.gen.twtelecom.net) |
| 22:00.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 22:09.16 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p54BFCEB7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:15.09 | *** join/#bzflag wizatcomputer (n=wizatcom@pool-71-240-228-194.fred.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:20.27 | *** join/#bzflag romfis (n=romfis@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at) |
| 22:35.28 | JeffM2501 | what are the graphical shot type? normal, GM, super, PZ and laser? |
| 22:35.32 | JeffM2501 | did I miss any? |
| 22:35.38 | JeffM2501 | ahh shockwave |
| 22:39.19 | CBG | JeffM2501: I don't know if Thief counts, but, you may need that too. |
| 22:39.27 | JeffM2501 | it is a shot type |
| 22:39.49 | brlcad | JeffM2501: hehe |
| 22:39.58 | JeffM2501 | I forgot invisible shot |
| 22:40.22 | brlcad | actually the project admin section and what constitutes an active developer is one of the hardest parts |
| 22:40.32 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 22:40.41 | JeffM2501 | how do you define "active" |
| 22:40.48 | JeffM2501 | I'd say commited since the last release |
| 22:41.09 | JeffM2501 | aka " has code in this release" |
| 22:49.51 | *** join/#bzflag tupone_laptop (n=atupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 22:49.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone_laptop] by ChanServ |
| 22:52.42 | JeffM2501 | what exactly does "seer" give you? |
| 22:52.59 | JeffM2501 | see stealth, see cloak, and see masq? |
| 22:53.36 | menotume | st and cl for sure, dunno about mq |
| 22:53.58 | tupone_laptop | you steal my answer :( |
| 22:54.10 | JeffM2501 | where would I check to see? |
| 22:54.12 | menotume | hey tupy |
| 22:54.22 | menotume | brlcad: i'm trying to commit! :P |
| 22:54.36 | tupone_laptop | cvs works? |
| 22:54.39 | bryjen | possibly "invisible" (only on radar) bullets too. |
| 22:54.45 | menotume | no, that's why i'm 'trying' |
| 22:55.09 | JeffM2501 | menotume, it's suposed to be down for 2 days |
| 22:55.21 | menotume | ahh, ok - so early tomoorow then |
| 22:55.23 | tupone_laptop | at least |
| 22:55.31 | menotume | ahh, ok - so next week then :) |
| 22:55.50 | bryjen | aww, no release tomorrow then? |
| 22:55.59 | JeffM2501 | not if we can't get into cvs |
| 22:57.27 | menotume | woohooo, let's release right after the rush of commits |
| 23:00.41 | CBG | aw, what catastrophically awful timing! >:( |
| 23:01.28 | bryjen | if it's a april fools' release on the 5th, is that the joke? |
| 23:02.05 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:02.28 | brlcad | JeffM2501: hmm.. interesting way to define it |
| 23:02.41 | brlcad | i was going with "in the last year" so far, but that's not bad |
| 23:02.47 | romfis | joke, april fools is 2.2.0 release ? hihi |
| 23:03.15 | brlcad | menotume: try harder |
| 23:03.49 | brlcad | we could actually still release old-school style |
| 23:04.17 | menotume | ok, give me the cvs data dir |
| 23:04.29 | brlcad | seriously |
| 23:04.38 | menotume | i have a cvs server here :) |
| 23:04.44 | brlcad | more easier would be to just import into a cvs server somewhere |
| 23:04.47 | JeffM2501 | old school style? |
| 23:04.57 | JeffM2501 | get from anon and do it ourself? |
| 23:05.00 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=geoffrey@host86-139-124-138.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) |
| 23:05.09 | Saturos | JeffM2501: Which changes did you want for title.png? I have bigger "L"... I'll try a white-colored border instead of the black one. Sry to disturb your discussion. :) |
| 23:05.10 | menotume | no, email all commits to brlcad |
| 23:05.16 | brlcad | old school would be to have a code broker, everyone submit mods to that person |
| 23:05.24 | JeffM2501 | Saturos, it's no problem |
| 23:05.28 | JeffM2501 | yeah a biger L |
| 23:05.29 | brlcad | that person posts tarball updates |
| 23:05.31 | JeffM2501 | for the logo one |
| 23:05.38 | Saturos | Thats all? |
| 23:05.42 | brlcad | hey Saturos, nice render |
| 23:05.45 | JeffM2501 | for the forum one I'd like to see the flag moved over infront of the tank, with no verison number |
| 23:05.57 | Saturos | Okay, thats gonna be a different topic. :) |
| 23:06.00 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 23:06.04 | Saturos | thanks brlcad :) |
| 23:06.09 | JeffM2501 | for the logo, just a little biger L |
| 23:06.15 | JeffM2501 | and I think it'll be perfect |
| 23:06.28 | brlcad | new logo? |
| 23:06.38 | JeffM2501 | for in game |
| 23:06.39 | menotume | how about i put the source tree in samba, and open it up for you al ? |
| 23:06.46 | JeffM2501 | did oyu see the link he posted brlcad ? |
| 23:06.58 | JeffM2501 | I'd rather just wait for Cvs |
| 23:07.03 | menotume | lol |
| 23:07.03 | JeffM2501 | that way we don't screw up |
| 23:07.09 | bryjen | menotume: nfs |
| 23:07.13 | JeffM2501 | if we can't get tomorow, then we can't |
| 23:07.16 | JeffM2501 | no big deal |
| 23:07.25 | menotume | yep |
| 23:07.35 | brlcad | sf.net heard me say two weeks is all |
| 23:07.40 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:07.40 | brlcad | they owed me a favor |
| 23:08.10 | brlcad | taking down cvs for 100k projects is a small price to pay to keep sean happy |
| 23:09.53 | JeffM2501 | menotume, brlcad make a good point when we discussed that yesterday, we'd never be able to handle a /.ing if we did our own |
| 23:10.02 | JeffM2501 | I think it would be svn.bzflag.bz ;) |
| 23:10.20 | menotume | ahh |
| 23:10.29 | menotume | and, i missed that discussion |
| 23:10.39 | JeffM2501 | it's prety cool |
| 23:10.47 | JeffM2501 | you get to type svnup on terminal ;) |
| 23:11.28 | bryjen | eww. keep yer gnasty sodas off my keyboard! ;) |
| 23:11.33 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:11.34 | brlcad | Saturos: for the background, I'd suggest removing the icon next to the name so as not to confuse with the real icon |
| 23:11.42 | brlcad | or putting something else there |
| 23:12.20 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, if your talking about the mac background, he dosn't know about that |
| 23:12.23 | JeffM2501 | I made it from his art |
| 23:12.45 | Saturos | Huh? :) |
| 23:12.48 | JeffM2501 | see |
| 23:12.59 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-241-119.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:13.08 | JeffM2501 | Saturos, I took one of your desktop images, and made it into an image for the mac installer |
| 23:13.16 | JeffM2501 | so all the installers used your art |
| 23:13.17 | Saturos | Great. |
| 23:13.31 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 23:13.52 | brlcad | ahh :) |
| 23:13.56 | brlcad | Saturos: never mind then :) |
| 23:14.01 | JeffM2501 | but it had the icon image in the lower corner, brlcad is woried that it will get in the way of the real icon |
| 23:14.27 | *** part/#bzflag romfis (n=romfis@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at) |
| 23:14.34 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, maybe if you post a screenshot of what the window looks like, he could make us a real image, instead of me ripping his art ;) |
| 23:14.43 | JeffM2501 | dono if he has a mac to look at the last installer |
| 23:14.48 | Saturos | Sure I can. |
| 23:14.53 | CBG | Hmm, I am getting bad argument errors when using -spamtime 5 and -spamwarn 3 in my conf. Any reason why? |
| 23:16.50 | menotume | CBG: no you aren't |
| 23:17.09 | CBG | I get "bad argument "3"" |
| 23:17.14 | menotume | no you don't |
| 23:17.15 | blast007 | lol |
| 23:17.32 | Saturos | http://saturos.de/projects/upload/files/title.png |
| 23:17.34 | CBG | You want a screenshot? :P |
| 23:17.48 | menotume | lol, was a bad arguement :P |
| 23:18.10 | menotume | Saturos: purdy |
| 23:18.37 | menotume | CBG: what is right before -spamwarn ? |
| 23:18.40 | CBG | Hmm, I tried a few mre times without chaning anything, now it works. :/ |
| 23:18.56 | brlcad | Saturos: cute :) |
| 23:19.04 | Saturos | thx :) |
| 23:19.40 | brlcad | Saturos: are you familiar with mac dmg and/or Finder windows? |
| 23:19.56 | Saturos | no, I am not. |
| 23:20.29 | Saturos | But within a day I could be... my father owns a mac.mini |
| 23:20.29 | brlcad | well, finder is what mac's call their file browser windows, equivalent to an explorer window sort of |
| 23:20.42 | Saturos | Okay. |
| 23:20.53 | brlcad | so we set the background image for a disk that automatically loads and pops up the finder window for macs |
| 23:21.01 | brlcad | that window looks like this: http://bzflag.bz/images/dmg-2.0.4.png |
| 23:21.13 | brlcad | traditionally, it's been a screenshot |
| 23:21.34 | brlcad | but it can really be anything |
| 23:21.41 | Saturos | I see... |
| 23:21.42 | JeffM2501 | oh very nice with the biger L |
| 23:21.46 | JeffM2501 | and the harder outline |
| 23:21.48 | brlcad | for ease, though, it should probably match the same dimensions |
| 23:21.48 | JeffM2501 | I like it |
| 23:22.18 | Saturos | Why not take bzart27 with lowered contrast? |
| 23:22.36 | Saturos | And on top of the image is the icon you have to drag? |
| 23:22.51 | brlcad | yep |
| 23:22.55 | Saturos | So it would be bad if the image was so bright that it's impossible to find the icon. |
| 23:23.01 | Saturos | Which are the dimensions? |
| 23:23.09 | brlcad | that's all it takes to "install" on a mac, you just put the app wherever you want |
| 23:23.12 | JeffM2501 | where is a list of your bzart ones? I can show you the one I used |
| 23:23.26 | brlcad | i think they're 320x200, but i'd have to check |
| 23:23.28 | JeffM2501 | the one I gave to brlcad as a sample |
| 23:23.56 | Saturos | There isn't really a list... |
| 23:24.39 | JeffM2501 | I used 22 |
| 23:24.47 | JeffM2501 | I think |
| 23:24.47 | Saturos | Personally, I still like http://bzflag.saturos.de/bzart/bzart27.png the most. |
| 23:25.03 | brlcad | Saturos: not if it was so bright.. if it was so busy it would be bad |
| 23:25.11 | Saturos | I see... good choice. |
| 23:25.17 | brlcad | if you notice in that one, there is the white halo around the icon so it makes it easier |
| 23:25.27 | JeffM2501 | 22 was low contrast |
| 23:25.30 | JeffM2501 | or lower |
| 23:25.41 | Saturos | true |
| 23:25.51 | Saturos | Seems to be a good choice. |
| 23:26.04 | JeffM2501 | 24 seems very "macintosh" tho |
| 23:26.28 | JeffM2501 | or maybe 23 |
| 23:26.48 | Saturos | 23 is too glossy. |
| 23:26.57 | brlcad | heh, i like 23 |
| 23:26.58 | JeffM2501 | so is the macintosh ;) |
| 23:27.02 | Saturos | ;) |
| 23:27.26 | Saturos | I could make a glossy one but simpler. |
| 23:27.35 | Saturos | Not four tanks, maybe just one. |
| 23:27.41 | JeffM2501 | 27 would be great if our install took a while and we needed a background behind the progress bar |
| 23:28.09 | brlcad | 27 would work as-is |
| 23:28.13 | Saturos | brlcad: no problem but there are always issues with the textures |
| 23:28.25 | brlcad | although slightly misleading :) |
| 23:28.55 | brlcad | Saturos: I don't care about the texture, I'm just going to export to dxf or stl :) |
| 23:29.03 | Saturos | What's that? |
| 23:29.04 | JeffM2501 | like every other industry "screenshot" |
| 23:29.07 | CBG | I have the one that it totally red, as my desktop background. :) Simple is often best, though #27 does rock. ;) |
| 23:29.13 | JeffM2501 | or as penny arcade calls it "bullshot" |
| 23:29.38 | CBG | I used to use 24, that _is very_ macintosh. |
| 23:29.48 | Saturos | 320x200? Gimme 10 minutes, I'll make something simple but glossy. |
| 23:29.55 | brlcad | 24 would do pretty well |
| 23:30.07 | Saturos | "The" mac-color is blue, right? Or grey? |
| 23:30.16 | brlcad | neither |
| 23:30.29 | brlcad | they're shiney silver or shiney white |
| 23:30.29 | Saturos | X is pretty blue, isn't it? |
| 23:31.00 | brlcad | hmm.. i really like 24 |
| 23:31.15 | brlcad | and 23 |
| 23:31.21 | CBG | That was my bg for months, I love 24. |
| 23:32.19 | Saturos | I'll be right back with a new image. |
| 23:34.46 | brlcad | ooh, a guide on integrating docbook xml into a gnu autotools project: http://www.movementarian.org/docs/docbook-autotools/index.html |
| 23:35.05 | brlcad | could actually finish that whole documentation thing |
| 23:37.39 | brlcad | JeffM2501: you remember which year bz went open source? |
| 23:37.42 | brlcad | 2000? |
| 23:38.00 | JeffM2501 | umm it'd be the add date in CVS |
| 23:38.08 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:38.11 | JeffM2501 | let me check web cvs |
| 23:38.16 | JeffM2501 | I tiink it's still upp |
| 23:38.21 | JeffM2501 | I think it was in 99 |
| 23:38.59 | brad2901 | web CVS is down too |
| 23:39.04 | JeffM2501 | no I'm into it |
| 23:39.10 | brad2901 | ..last time I checked anyway |
| 23:39.23 | Saturos | Is the drag-to-install-icon always in right bottom corner? |
| 23:40.03 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, yeah 2000 |
| 23:40.06 | JeffM2501 | in march |
| 23:41.28 | JeffM2501 | Saturos, your new one makes a very good froum logo ;) |
| 23:43.53 | Saturos | About that mac-image... 320x200 is correct? And which format? |
| 23:44.01 | Saturos | png? |
| 23:44.19 | JeffM2501 | I think they can do png, or jpeg |
| 23:44.38 | Saturos | 320x200 seems to be very small. |
| 23:44.58 | JeffM2501 | it just comes up in a window |
| 23:45.07 | Saturos | Okay... |
| 23:45.08 | JeffM2501 | when you double cick the package you download |
| 23:45.37 | JeffM2501 | the DMG that mac people download kinda of mounts itself as a fake drive on the desktop and then opens window |
| 23:46.07 | blast007 | looks like 512x384 in the screenshot of the current DMG |
| 23:46.24 | JeffM2501 | he can change the window size to whatever |
| 23:46.50 | Saturos | Well... it should actually be high.red then. |
| 23:46.53 | Saturos | high-res |
| 23:47.20 | Saturos | Because scaling down is no problem, but if you make a 320x200 up to 512x384 it will look weird. |
| 23:47.32 | JeffM2501 | it won't scale |
| 23:47.39 | JeffM2501 | it's allways the same size on everyone's machine |
| 23:47.44 | JeffM2501 | the window size is stored in the dmg |
| 23:47.54 | Saturos | Alright. Staying with 320x200 then. |
| 23:47.59 | Saturos | ok? |
| 23:48.06 | JeffM2501 | should be fine |
| 23:48.24 | Saturos | Any text wanted? Like "BZFlag 2.0.6 mac-edition? |
| 23:48.25 | Saturos | " |
| 23:48.42 | Gnurdux | its not a Mac editiot really, just a build |
| 23:48.46 | JeffM2501 | probably what ever you think looks good |
| 23:48.48 | Saturos | Thats a point. |
| 23:48.57 | JeffM2501 | I'd just say "for macintosh" |
| 23:48.58 | Saturos | I'll make some experiments. :) |
| 23:49.02 | JeffM2501 | it'll make them feel better |
| 23:49.15 | JeffM2501 | "bzflag for macintosh" |
| 23:49.20 | brlcad | might be 512x384.. |
| 23:49.33 | brlcad | Saturos: load the screenshot in gimp/photoshop and check first :) |
| 23:50.35 | blast007 | mspaint says 512x384 ;) |
| 23:50.50 | brlcad | actually, I usually think the apps that say for mac are a lil cheesy.. |
| 23:51.01 | brlcad | it'd be like having "for Windows" on the windows installer |
| 23:51.15 | brlcad | it's not "for" something else when that's what you always use |
| 23:51.44 | JeffM2501 | we used to have "for windows" in it ;) |
| 23:51.46 | brlcad | now tossing in a subtle apple somewhere in there is fun |
| 23:51.54 | JeffM2501 | iBZFlag |
| 23:51.58 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:52.18 | brlcad | it should probably retain the "install instructions" |
| 23:52.25 | brlcad | drag icon to apps |
| 23:52.51 | brlcad | and credit to the background artist.. ;) |
| 23:53.45 | JeffM2501 | hmmm.... if these mods work right then I could make a very nasty server mod.. could make a flag.. that makes who ever is shot by it's holder fire GMs ;) |
| 23:54.07 | JeffM2501 | and have it automaticly work on everyones clients ;) |
| 23:54.42 | JeffM2501 | well that and the fabled "left turn cannon" |
| 23:54.47 | CBG | JeffM2501: would be good if you could have it done in a few hours... ;) |
| 23:54.58 | JeffM2501 | why a few hours? |
| 23:55.22 | CBG | Sounds like an april fools joke to me |
| 23:55.24 | brlcad | hmm.. i'm going to miss john doe |
| 23:55.32 | JeffM2501 | CBG, no |
| 23:55.48 | JeffM2501 | I'm converting flag effects into an atribute stack |
| 23:55.58 | JeffM2501 | carying a flag is just one way get an atribute set |
| 23:56.18 | CBG | sounds like fun ;) |
| 23:56.19 | JeffM2501 | then a flag pickup is broken into 2 messages, the pickup then a message with a new set of atributes |
| 23:56.30 | JeffM2501 | a player can get an atribute at any time |
| 23:56.39 | JeffM2501 | like... on join |
| 23:56.49 | JeffM2501 | so say everyone could have wings |
| 23:56.54 | JeffM2501 | or everyone starts with shield |
| 23:57.15 | CBG | L4M3r (iirc) already made such a plugin. |
| 23:57.17 | JeffM2501 | or the server defines custom "combo" flags |
| 23:57.24 | JeffM2501 | he did it by giving somone a flag |
| 23:57.28 | CBG | One that gives everyone a certain flag when the spawn. |
| 23:57.31 | JeffM2501 | I am doing it with out that |
| 23:57.32 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, there is a big bug, if you set rainStartZ to 0, it permanently screws up client and the client has to be fully restarted |
| 23:57.36 | JeffM2501 | where you can still pick up a flag |
| 23:57.36 | CBG | Or a random one. |
| 23:57.41 | CBG | Oh, ok, ;) |
| 23:57.45 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, so fix it |
| 23:57.55 | JeffM2501 | CBG, you can also get an atribute change when you get shot |
| 23:57.58 | JeffM2501 | or enter a zone |
| 23:58.02 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, but it wont get into 2.0.6 if i do, and i dont think i can |
| 23:58.07 | JeffM2501 | so you could have zones that make everyone burrow |
| 23:58.11 | CBG | ahh, that'll open a lot of doors. |
| 23:58.15 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, it still has to be fixed |
| 23:58.18 | CBG | yeah, fun |
| 23:58.20 | JeffM2501 | CBG, eaxactly |
| 23:58.26 | Saturos | http://saturos.de/projects/upload/files/320x240.png |
| 23:58.30 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, shouldnt a burrow zone be a phydrv? |
| 23:58.46 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, not nesisarlay |
| 23:58.57 | brlcad | JeffM2501: what year did you get involved? and before/after tim? |
| 23:58.58 | JeffM2501 | but phydrvs are one way to apply attributes |
| 23:59.04 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, before |
| 23:59.06 | Gnurdux | it would be cool if server could specify flags |
| 23:59.11 | JeffM2501 | let me find the date of my first code change |
| 23:59.16 | Gnurdux | if the client didnt even have a list of flag types |
| 23:59.32 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, that's the point of these changes |
| 23:59.39 | JeffM2501 | flags become just a way to set atributes |
| 23:59.43 | Gnurdux | ahhh |
| 23:59.44 | Gnurdux | cool |
| 23:59.51 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, 10/13/97 |
